Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

>> The Joe Rogan Experience.

>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY

NIGHT. All day.

>> We're up. What's Oh, good to see you,

brother. What's cracking?

>> To be seen, man. Stoked to be here.

>> I'm stoked to have you, man. What a

[ __ ] cute kid you have, dude.

>> Thank you. Thank you. He's the best,

man. So blessed.

>> He loves you. Were you trying to put him

down? He's like, "No." I think it's cuz

I just spent we just went to uh Utah and

I had three or five days with him just

like a lot of time with him and he has

separation anxiety from me as I do with

him. I'm like it's the best man.

>> And people that don't have kids it's

like you don't understand the level of

love that you have for them. It's it's

really crazy.

>> Or people who have kids and don't hang

out with their kids like that. I just I

don't get it.

>> I don't get it either.

>> I'll spend every second I can with my

kids.

>> Yeah. That's weird. It's weird that

people maybe something that happened to

them when they were young or something.

I don't know. But

>> yeah.

>> So, what's cracking? What's What's the

latest?

>> Uh, I mean, my doc came out today.

>> Today?

>> So, yeah. Yep. Long time coming.

>> What was that experience like?

Well, the beginning of it was was

shortly after my book came out. So, I

kind of understood why people wanted a

dock from me at that point. And um I was

I was honored and I was flattered and I

was, you know, going down the journey of

of filming this dock, but it it didn't

really have an ending. Um,

I guess the light at the end of the

tunnel during that time around 2017 was

that I was sober and I survived a plane

crash, but really I was struggling with

ever flying again. Uh, struggling with

survivors guilt, struggling with a lot

of stuff. Uh, and at the time the

directors had mentioned to me like, can

you just look at a plane or act like

you're going to go fly in a plane or

walk towards a plane? I was like, "Fuck

no. I would never I can't even consider

it. I can't even do it for you for for

like fantasy purposes for the end of

this dock, you know." Um,

and I think that set in after a while

where I had to acknowledge and and and

just understand I was I was afraid to

ever fly again. And and this thing had

huge power over me to the point where

it, you know, it dictated how I got on

tour, how many days I'd travel on bus to

New York, how many days I'd be on the

Queen Mary 2 going to England.

>> How long would that take?

>> Oh, dude. So long.

>> The England one's crazy.

>> Comfortably on the bus from here to New

York, probably six or seven days if you

want to stop at hotels and at, you know,

I toured with my kids, you know, their

whole life. So stopping and doing some

cool stuff for them. Six, seven days and

then a 10day boat ride from from New

York to the Hamptons.

>> [ __ ]

>> It's crazy. Yeah. So yeah, my band would

leave, they'd be in England in 10 hours,

whatever. It would take me three weeks.

Sucked. And then sometimes I'd be on the

Queen Mary, too, and we'd have wild

weather, 30 foot waves, 170 mile per

hour winds. And I was like, is this any

better than being on a plane? But

>> do you The ocean freaks me out.

>> Yeah, big in particular, they freaked me

out.

>> Yeah, we got into a couple storms

>> on one of the transatlantic crossings

that Yeah, believe me, like something

was festering inside where I I had this

urge to to to

try to figure out what had this power

over me, which was flying. And um yeah.

That's totally understandable.

>> Yeah, I think about it every day after a

certain point. And then plus my kids,

you know, they grew up not flying. They

they grew up associating a plane uh to a

a metal container where people die, I

think, you know, unfortunately because

that's what happened, you know, to my

two best friends and the two pilots who

were on my plane. Uh so yeah, it was it

was it was hard. And then I knew the day

I did it, I could show them that they

could also do it and it would probably

break the the trauma and the spell that

my my accident caused however many years

ago. And yeah, I think after my accident

and that whole process, I just

everything people said I couldn't do

after that, I would just check them off

one by one. Oh, you're not going to run

again. Oh, you're not going to play the

drums again. Oh, you're not you're not

going to do this again. And uh and the

one that I gave myself, the the

restriction I gave myself is I'd never

fly again, you know. And I I broke it

and I fly again. And

>> how many years did it take you before

you got on a plane again?

>> 20.

>> And I even think back to that. I'm like

20 years. I lost 20 years with this

thing having power over me. But it just

it was like a monster. It kept getting

bigger and bigger. And I was like, I got

to

>> Well, you got to look at it like in

terms of the odds. You survived a plane

crash, which is the odds of that are

astronomical. The odds of you getting in

another plane crash,

>> are super low.

>> Yeah.

>> I know nobody thinks about it like that

because it's the opposite because you've

actually experienced it. So, you know

what it is. Like, oh my god, this is a

real possibility.

>> Yeah, I can see that now cuz my my son

who's 22, he doesn't love to fly. And I

always say like we just were in Utah and

I took a flight, you know, uh he ended

up driving and I was like, "Son, that's

way more dangerous. Like, fly with me.

I'm never going to put you on a plane

that I think is unsafe. I'm so adamant

about making sure the pilot's great, the

the plane's had maintenance, whatever

else."

>> How do you check all that stuff?

>> Well, just if we're flying private,

you're you're able to like, you know,

really make sure it's a great plane. Uh

sometimes even we'll fly on like

someone's plane that we know. So that

makes me feel better. But yeah, he just

he just drove 16 hours round trip. I was

like, "Son, that's way more dangerous."

It is.

>> But yeah, that's what I tell myself. And

I just got to have faith. And um

>> yeah.

>> What was the first plane trip like after

20 years?

It was nothing like I'd imagined it. Uh

I

I made a deal with my wife and I just

said, "Hey, if there's ever somewhere we

can't go," cuz she was a champ, man. She

was she was on tour buses with me. She

was on whatever just, you know, going

kind of close by for trips that we'd go

on. And I said, "If there's ever a trip

that you want us to go on that I need to

fly, just don't tell me and uh tell me

the night before and let's leave in the

morning and I'm going to do it." So

that's what it was. And the flight was

awesome. Had contained none of the awful

nightmares that I had fabricated in my

head that it would be like uh over the

years. And yeah, I think I just needed a

positive experience to cancel out the

the last bad one that I had.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, um yeah, that helped a lot.

And I think I think also coming to terms

with

being so close to my godson who was my

assistant's son who passed away in my

plane crash and uh and his mom and

Chay's mom and just knowing

uh that that there was no there was no

hard feelings and and the survivor's

guilt I was feeling was was my own. and

to just think about them and if the

roles were reversed, would would they

want me to really just sit around and

not flying again or have this thing have

power over me? Um or if I was in their

shoes, would I want that for them? Like,

of course not.

>> Yeah, it's a it's an experience that so

few people ever have. I I mean, I can't

imagine what it's like, especially

losing your friends and just the the

trauma of the actual impact, the whole

thing just stuck in your head.

>> It's Yeah. I mean, to this day, I always

like my wife's a great flyer. My band,

they're all good flying, you know? I

think they can My wife can probably

envision a trip, plan a trip, envision

how rad it's going to be, how cool it's

going to be doing rock climbing or

whatever we're going to do. All I can

think about until I get there is like,

am I going to make it? Is is this gonna,

you know, I did this once and I almost

died. So, you know, I I had to just stop

that pattern of thinking to the best of

my ability. It still happens a little

bit, but I still can't I have trouble

booking planes. I have trouble booking

flights

um without thinking of those things, you

know.

>> Yeah, I can only imagine. Well, it's

awesome that you got through it and got

over it and did it publicly so that

other people can get inspiration from

that.

>> Yeah.

>> And just realize like, hey, may you

know, maybe for them it was a car

accident or a bus accident, whatever it

is, like you can keep moving.

>> Yeah, for sure. And I uh at the time,

you know, am AM survived with me and

then he lived for another year, then

passed away of a drug overdose. But

during that time where after I'd gotten

out of the burn center and did most of

my recovery, it was hard to find anyone

who had been in a plane crash that was

severely burnt like you know and lost

people. There was a lot of there was a

lot of groups and a lot of people that

uh like support systems for people who

had were grieving and lost someone in a

plane crash you know. Yeah. So, I was

kind of uh just lonely trying to

navigate figure it out. Just recently,

just like a few days ago before my doc

came out, I someone kept tagging me and

I saw it. It's this this young lady

named Reva. She had a similar experience

where she was in a plane crash. 50% of

her body was burnt and she lost her mom

in the plane crash. I was like, this is

really similar to me and I've never met

anyone that had even remotely kind of

the same experience. And so I flew her

out and she was at my premiere and it

was just it was just cool. And I said,

"Uh, you know, it's it's just as cool

for me to meet you as for you to meet

me. Like this is I I don't I don't see

anyone or meet anyone like you, you

know."

>> Yeah.

>> So yeah, it's it's cool.

>> That's a very cool human experience.

Yeah. You know, just share it with

somebody and

>> realize like you both been through

something pretty horrible, but you came

out on the other side and

>> find comfort in each other. I think the

closest thing that I came to that was

right after my accident and I was out to

dinner. The guy who flew the the plane

and landed in the river.

>> Remember that Sully?

>> Yeah. He came up and shook my hand at

dinner. Didn't say a word to me, but I

was like,

>> "Oh, wow.

>> Oh, that's awesome." You know,

>> that's that story is [ __ ] crazy,

>> dude. Crazy.

>> Birds.

>> Yeah,

>> birds took the plane down.

>> Yeah.

>> You would think they would have figured

that out by now.

>> Yeah. The smallest error, you know.

It's insane.

>> Yeah. Um, flying's weird, but I prefer

it over the boat.

>> Mhm.

>> The boat thing in the boat. [ __ ] you.

>> Queen Mary 2 is a wild. There's a morg

on there, too.

>> Yeah. Mo most people that are on there

are 80 years old and they're doing their

one transatlantic crossing

>> and so some of them die.

>> A lot of them. There there's a lot of I

think every transatlantic crossing cuz

I'm on there with my crew and my my

assistant, my tour manager, it's like,

"Yep, someone passed, you know."

>> Wow.

>> A morg on the boat.

>> A morg on the boat. It's a must. There's

a morg.

>> A jail.

>> A jail.

>> Yeah, there's a jail.

>> How many people are on the Queen Mary,

too?

>> Thousands.

>> Whoa.

>> Yeah. I mean, if someone pops off on the

boat, they got to, you know, there's

there's police. It's legit. It's legit.

Um

>> Wow. Wow. And the whole experience they

they almost celebrate when you crossing

the Titanic

where the Titanic sits. They're they're

like playing the movie on the ship.

They're announcing it. I was like this

is this is just different. Yeah.

>> [ __ ] that.

>> Yeah.

>> Oh my god.

>> But it it was honestly I would I would

practice all day. I would practice all

day. I would run miles across the ship

just on the outside of the ship. There's

a lot of cool

cool uh times on the boat as well.

>> Well, I'm sure.

>> You know, you usually fly to tour, you

land. That's what I do now. And it's

like go where I would just train every

day, play drums four hours a day, run

two hours a day. By the time I got

ready, you know, to where I was going,

I'm like, I'm so ready for tour. It's

like whatever whatever life throws at

me, I'm good. It's just crazy that even

the Queen Mary 2 getting across in 10

days. That's got to be like way fa

faster than the old boats used to do it,

right?

>> I don't know, dude. You're going so

slow. Doesn't even look like you're

moving. Sometimes you're like, are you

serious? You don't see [ __ ] for 10 days.

>> Just water.

>> Once in a while, you'll start seeing

birds when you know you're getting close

to land, but other than that, nothing.

>> How many times have you done that trip?

>> Seven. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I think I'd rather fly for sure. I

It's just the idea of something going

wrong in the middle of the ocean.

>> Yeah. I I started to think about it.

You're [ __ ]

>> Yeah. You're [ __ ]

>> There's no place to land a helicopter on

there.

>> How could someone even get to you? It's

the middle of the It's thousands of

miles out to sea.

>> Yeah. Both suck to me, right? Falling

out of the sky on a plane, crashing into

the ocean sucks. Also, being sinking in

a huge ship with thousands of people

fending for their lives sucks.

>> I've just watched too many boat videos

of like them navigating insane waves

that look like like a building coming at

them.

>> Dude, I was in it. I Yeah, we were in

it. it cra I think I think we had we

lost a couple windows in the ship and

and you're basically confined to your

room but huge where you just see the

boat go up and then it go crashing down

and you're you know you're four or five

days into the trip so you still got

you're in the middle of your crossing.

>> What does that feel like? You're

>> on a giant boat with thousands of

people.

>> Sucks. The internet goes out usually on

the boat and you're just watching

something in your room. Just waiting for

everything to get more calm.

>> How big were these waves?

>> I think we were in 35t waves.

>> Yeah,

>> like this.

>> Yes, exact. It looks exactly like that.

>> Yeah, this freaks me out, man.

>> Yeah,

>> it's like some when they This is not

that bad.

>> Well, look how much the boat's moving,

though. This is the hurricane force

winds, it says.

Yeah, that's like choppy weather.

I mean, there's positives, too. We saw

the Northern Lights from our cruise one

time, and it was like I've never seen it

anywhere else, but it was beautiful.

>> Was cool.

>> Yeah, I want to make a trip to somewhere

like Norway or wherever you could see

it.

>> Yeah, this is

>> Yeah, I almost did that one time. I

almost went on a not a passenger ship,

but a a cargo ship because I was trying

to find ways to get to Australia.

you were going to go to Australia.

>> You know who told me about it? You know

who else doesn't fly and was on the

Queen Mary twice with me was KRS1.

>> Really?

>> Yep. He we he was like um I'm right

there with you, Travis. And I was like,

did something, you know, happen to you

where why you're you're just confined to

being on ships? He's like, no, I just

don't like flying. So, him and his

family actually, he had told me about

the cargo ship uh for some of the other

places that didn't have actual cruises.

>> How long is a boat ride to Australia,

>> dude? Month. I think it's a month.

I mean, I never went. I never went. The

plane flight is hard enough. 20

something hours or whatever it is, you

know.

>> Yeah. [ __ ] that.

>> [ __ ] a month. Mm-m.

>> It just makes you really think about the

insane adventure spirit of the people

that just took off on canoes and made it

across the ocean.

>> Yeah. Or those wild ass people that do

it by themselves just here to Hawaii.

>> Yeah. There's a lot of those people.

Yeah. Yeah. I know a dude that just did

that. But that's I mean the the people

back when there was no internet, back

when there was no newspapers or no

nothing, like the the Polynesian people

that just got on boats and made it to

Hawaii.

>> Insane. Yeah.

>> Like did you have what what was plan B?

Yeah.

>> What what's you know what do you do if

you're out where are you getting water?

How do you how are you staying alive?

>> Yeah. I think plan B is making plan A

work. That's the plan B. There is no

plan. But how bad does life suck

>> that you're willing to get in a boat and

just hope there's some food?

>> Yeah.

>> When you land.

>> And they didn't have big boats either.

>> Yeah.

>> So, what what the [ __ ] were the waves

like for them? Also, no no weather app

on the iPhone.

>> Yeah. Like

>> you have no idea what's coming. True.

>> Zero idea what's waiting for you.

>> And you know, you're with your family

and you're paddling out there.

>> Yeah. It's the un the unknown. Absolute

unknown.

>> And then how do you get back? Or do you

or do you just say, "Well, this is where

we are." I mean, it must have taken

months and months and months to get out

there. How do they stay alive? Like

human ingenuity, like people's ability

to thrive and survive is pretty insane

when pushed to the limits.

>> Yeah. Like people uh I have a friend who

who fasts half of the year. He's just

drinking juice and water

>> for 6 months. 160 days a year. He does

it every year.

>> How?

>> He's he's chefo. He's he's a chef. Uh

he's actually a a chef that took a vow

of silence 30 years ago.

>> Uh a plant-based raw chef and for half

of the year he doesn't eat. He just

fasts. And it's more for like health

reasons like cleansing and and to

prevent disease, whatever else. Um, but

he gets really thin and then just goes

back to his normal weight the second

half of the year.

>> I don't know if that's good.

>> I don't know either, but uh he does it

he does it every year.

>> He might not even he might it might not

even be good or so. He just does these

things half of the year fasting.

>> I don't think it's good. This episode is

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for plan features and network management

details. But I can't imagine that just

eating nothing but juice for 6 months is

good for you. Yeah, I have a hard enough

time fasting a day before surgery or

something, you know.

>> Well, it's all dependent upon whether or

not your body is eating a lot of

carbohydrates or not.

>> Yeah.

>> If you're on a ketogenic diet, it's a

lot easier. Your body just immediately

goes to burning fat and your your

appetite is not as strong. It's not as

as insane a pull, the gravity of it. But

I I can't even imagine why you would do

that. Fast for six months. Like I think

there's a lot of data that shows that

fasting for 3 days and 5 days and things

along those lines is good. Causes

autophagy, makes your body clean out bad

cells. It's very good for people that

are recovering from cancer or going

through cancer. It's one of the first

things a lot of doctors tell you, get on

a ketogenic diet and fast because cancer

cells want glucose. That's what they

want to survive and you starve them. M

>> and when your body's like on a carbo,

you're still on a plant-based diet,

>> so your body's eating mostly

carbohydrates all the time. So it get

you have to kind of refuel all the time.

It gets used to it. So when someone like

you takes a day off of food, it's like

the pull of the carbohydrates, like the

insulin dump. It's a lot.

>> Yeah. I mean, I eat so much protein

though. I get so much protein from

lentils. Like an insane amount of

protein from lentils,

>> beans, all the natural stuff. Not like

mock meats.

>> Mhm.

>> So like all all my blood work that I do,

my protein is

topnotch.

>> Well, that's awesome.

>> Yeah. I figured it out, though, too.

Like there's a lot of I mean there's a

lot of junk food meat eaters, a lot of

junk food vegans. Uh it's about dialing

your [ __ ] in, you know what I mean? And

figuring it out.

>> But even you when you were recovering

from your burns, you started eating

meat. Well, because I had doctors that

were super old school in the in the in

the hospital with me.

>> Mhm.

>> That figured out I wasn't eating because

they were trying to feed me a bunch of

meat and they stuck a hose down my

throat and that just sucked. So,

>> they stuck a hose down your throat

>> to like feed you like that because I was

like secretly just eating kind of like

what I wanted but not eating a bunch of

the meat because I told them, "Hey, I

don't I don't really eat meat." Um, so

there was like a miscommunication where

they just put a a hose down my throat

and were were feeding me like that. And

then during that time, my my uh one of

my nurses was super cool and he started

making me bags of beef jerky. So I would

eat beef jerky in the hospital to get

whatever protein that they wanted me to

have and then down a peanut butter blast

smoothie from what is that? Is it Robux

or something like that? like one of

those and it's 3,000 calories. So, I was

I was averaging I I basically had a I

had a 6 to 7,000 calorie diet I needed

to hit every day.

>> Wow.

>> Uh in order to heal cuz I I had just had

30 surgeries in 6 months.

So, it was just just trying to to get

enough

>> just just 30 times being anesthetized

for six months is [ __ ] hard on your

body. Yeah, it was

I was so out of it I didn't really know

until towards the end, you know, but

but yeah.

>> Jeez, man. Did you ever try using a

hyperbaric chamber? I couldn't do it

after, you know, my my my uh my best

friend that was in the the accident with

me am he was he was I think 6% of his

body was burnt

and he went in the hyperbaric and I

think he had a a small graft on the back

of his head. He was out of the hospital

in a week and a half. Uh, but I had 70%

of my body burnt. So, there was no way I

was getting out of the hospital no

matter how much I did it or didn't do

it. I tried doing it. And I was just in

such a awful place after my my accident

where I was I had so much trauma uh with

like losing my my best friends and I was

I was definitely uh my reaction was much

different than than uh Adams. Uh and I

couldn't I couldn't go on the small

tube. There's there was no way. I think

at the time it reminded me too much of

the inside of the plane.

>> Really? Yeah,

I just felt really claustrophobic and

and I was also having a hell of a time.

Uh am was sober sober for 15 years when

it happened. I was I was a drug addict,

you know, before my plane crash. And you

take a a person who's self-medicating,

put them through 30 surgeries, give them

a bunch of pain meds, and they're not

working.

>> That was me. So, I was waking up

>> every surgery, screaming, swinging on

doctors. Oh jeez.

>> Complete madman, you know. Um

until until they weaned me off. And by

the by the time I got out of there, I

was

I never wanted to put anything in my

body again. And uh had a great

relationship with all my doctors and Dr.

Grossman who owns the burn center, the

Gman Burn Center. It was uh Yeah, it was

full circle.

>> But that's a crazy trial by fire to get

off drugs. Yeah, that was my that was my

that was my rehab.

>> Wow.

>> Mhm.

>> [ __ ] dude.

That has to be I mean, you're confined

to a bed, you're stuck, they're giving

you pain medications, you're going

through 30 surgeries, you have 70% of

your body burnt, your friends just died,

and you're in this hospital by yourself.

>> Huge wakeup call.

>> What a [ __ ] what a wild ride your

mind must have been going through.

Yeah, it's uh

you know I was coming home from a show.

I was coming home from a gig and Yeah.

Who who would think you get in get in a

plane coming home from a show and

you're going to end up in a burn center

for 6 months, you know, four people are

gone and 70% of your body's burnt. Takes

a minute to process. You know

>> why did they think you were never going

to be able to play the drums again?

Well, there was a point where they were

going to amputate my foot because they

didn't think they could they could uh

they they had enough skin left to to

heal my foot or save it. And then

because of the amount of

burns I had over my body,

they weren't they weren't positive I was

even going to make it. So it was like

once they knew I was out of critical

condition and I was going to make it,

they were, you know, all my nerves were

messed up in my hands. Like my owner

nerve was shot in both hands. My hands

were numb. There was a lot of It's just

the unknown, you know.

>> I can only imagine. I think it sucks

that you couldn't use the hyperaric

because it definitely accelerates

healing.

>> Yeah. Even now, I I go in I go in

sometimes now there's a hyperbaric uh in

Los Angeles that seats two people and

that's perfect for me. It's just like

>> I could stay in there for two hours and

I'm fine, you know?

>> It's just a confined space thing for

you.

>> Yeah. I just don't love being in

confined spaces.

>> Yeah. I don't love it either, but I do

it. But it's I've never been through

what you

>> know what the mind [ __ ] is is the the

time it takes to depressurize it. So

even if you're like, "Okay, I'm done."

They're like seven minutes, eight

minutes, whatever, while we depressurize

it. I think that's that's why I just

feel better in the two-seater.

>> Yeah, that makes sense.

>> Yeah.

>> [ __ ] dude. What now? When you're doing

this documentary, are you does it relive

all this stuff for you?

>> Every time.

Yeah. I was so excited to come on on

this with you cuz I'm like, I'm going to

talk fights with Joe. I'm going to talk

whatever, cars, what um we could do. But

some of some of them have been uh I mean

they've all been great but

I mean to tell the truth I think since I

I'm not sure why but maybe since I was a

kid, you know, I lost my mom at a young

age, like 13. Like I could a stranger

could come up to me outside this place

and be like, "Dude, I just lost my dad."

And I'd probably start balling because

it's sensitive to me. It like triggers

something to me. Um, so yeah, it's like

talking about certain parts of the doc

is like gutting me with a knife, you

know. Um,

>> were you conflicted as to whether or not

you wanted to go through with this and

relive all that stuff?

>> Um, I I think I was already far past it.

It was it was it was to the point where

my dock was done in 2017, but I'm like,

there's no ending. The ending sucks. I

won't look at a plane. I won't do

anything. And then

fast forward, you know, that was their

dream ending. Just stare at a [ __ ]

plane for me, right? And I'm like, nah.

You know, um, so, and then fast forward

to now, 2024 or whatever it was when I

flew or 2025, it was like, yo, I fly. I

fly again. My kids fly. Uh, I'm married.

Um, there like so many things have

changed. And that kind of triggered me

to finish it because there was a a huge

light at the end of the tunnel now,

right? It was like,

>> yeah, I had this thing that had power

over me for 20 years, but I fly again.

And uh

>> and and I I think the other parts of the

doc like

>> uh an amazing like rough relationship

with my dad when when I was younger

turned into something like beautiful

where he's like my best friend. Um

>> Oh, that's awesome.

>> I wasn't I wasn't born with a silver

spoon in my mouth. I grew up, you know,

not we didn't even have like running hot

water in my house. Uh, so it wasn't like

my dad was in the music industry and my

mom was an agent. It was like, no, I I

[ __ ] didn't know how I was going to

get out of where I I grew up and I just

played every day and I was relentless

and I joined every band and I played

with everyone and I practiced two to

five hours a day, you know. So just even

giving some kid hope knowing that he can

do the same thing was was like a a big

part of my documentary that I felt like

could help a lot of people

>> for sure. And then just to see me

getting knocked down and um and just

have to fight, you know, over and over

again when [ __ ] up things happen to me

and

just watching me

have these things just make me stronger

and stronger and unbreakable. I think

that's the resilience. I think that that

that is something for for people to see.

>> Yeah. Yeah. There's two great messages

in there. The big one is that you can

overcome. That no matter how [ __ ] up

things are, if you keep going and if you

keep you stay positive, you do the right

thing, you trust the process, at the end

of it, you'll come out better.

>> Yeah.

>> And then your the formula for success is

the same formula. Almost everyone has

that is really awesome at something.

become obsessed, become driven, and just

throw everything you have in that thing,

and you come out better, and you

eventually get to where you want to be

or get to where you are.

>> It's it's it's an undeniable formula.

And kids need to hear that, especially

kids in this world where everybody

thinks everything comes quick and

everybody wants a you know, it's a tick-

tock mindset and everybody wants a pill

to lose weight and everybody wants it's

all the process is the most important

thing. and just get become becoming

obsessed and in love with the process.

>> Yeah. And and so many people I don't

know they there's not a lot of balance,

right? Like I've I've found more balance

now, but it's like no, you've got to be

[ __ ] obsessed and you got to be

relentless and you got to while all your

homies are out doing whatever, you

should be practicing. You know what I

mean? You got to be disciplined. Like

I'm so you know my parents were uh

>> they were they were really strict with

me like yo if you want to go

skateboarding you want to go ride BMX

bikes go whatever [ __ ] off with your

friends you got to go play drums for 3

hours.

>> Wow.

>> So thankful they did that. Can you

imagine if they didn't you know cuz the

one thing also in my dock is like every

time like my mom dies what do I do? I I

just throw myself into music and

drumming. Like obsessed with drumming,

you know. Join marching band, orchestra,

jazz band, you know, like just

literally eat, sleep, and breathe it.

Same thing after my accident. What did I

do day I got home? I'm outside with

scabs all over my body and I'm playing

the [ __ ] drums cuz it's like what I

know. And also, I think for kids even

that don't have to hopefully endure

anything I encountered, it's like it

gives you confidence when you're good at

something. It's like when I don't know,

anything. I think when kids bully you,

when whatever else, if you're good at

something, you're like, "Fuck you."

Like, I know I'm really good at

football. I'm really good at jiu-jitsu.

I'm really good at guitar. I feel like

it just gives you confidence

>> 100%.

>> And uh helps you just kind of navigate

through life better. Yeah,

>> you know,

>> it's a vehicle for developing you as a

human being in whatever it is, whether

it's art, whether it's music, whether

it's literature, whatever you're doing,

writing, whatever you're doing,

whatever, carpentry, whatever it is,

>> just become obsessed with a thing, get

better at it, and you realize that,

okay, I there's a process. I can get

better at things. I'm valuable. I I'm I

can do something.

>> Yeah.

>> I'm not just a lazy sack of [ __ ]

>> The problem is the masses aren't like

that, right? So, like sometimes you feel

lonely being like that, but uh

>> yeah, I feel like Have you ever read

Relentless by Tim Grover?

>> No.

>> [ __ ] It's my Bible. But, uh I just had

my premiere in LA and he introduced my

doc.

>> What is it?

>> It's it's it's a book and he basically

talks about being a cooler um closer or

cleaner, you know? And like cleaners are

are like people like you and I that are

obsessed with [ __ ] And you know, if we

won a Grammy today, we're not going to

like party for the next week. We're

like, "What's next?" You know, what's

next? We're not uh we're on vacation and

we're practicing and we're not feeling

bad about it. We're It's just it's it's

a mindset that not a lot of people have.

And they almost make you feel like

you're doing something wrong because

you're so obsessed with something.

>> Yeah.

>> Um

>> Well, people will make you feel like

there's something wrong with you.

>> Oh, yeah. like and I've and it took me a

while honestly after I read his book.

I'm like, "Oh, I'm not alone. There's a

bunch of [ __ ] psychopaths like me

that just I love the [ __ ] drums. I

love to make music. I could stay in the

studio for 25 hours, you know? Um, and

and I don't feel burnt out and it makes

me feel alive and it's therapeutic and I

always I'm never content with where I'm

at. I always know I have room to grow. I

know there's things I can get better at.

Um, yeah, there's and then there's like,

you know, there's people that are very

content just being like, I'm not going

to get any better. I'm just I'm cool

with where I'm at. I know this is kind

of peak level for me. I can never think

like that.

>> Yeah. I mean, I guess that's just how it

has to be in order for there to be

outliers. There there's always going to

be people that just whatever for

whatever reason never follow through,

never do what they really want to do.

You know what is that uh thorough

comment, the thorough quote? Most men

live lives of quiet desperation.

>> There's a lot of that. There's a lot of

people that wish they wish they had the

energy or the inspiration or the

discipline or whatever it is to do the

thing that they want to do to get up and

just to to do something that really

brings them joy, really brings them

excitement, really makes them feel

fulfilled, really like ignites that

creative fire inside of them that where

you do something and it's done, you're

like, "Fuck yeah."

>> There's a lot of people that never

experienced [ __ ] yeah.

Yeah,

>> it's a rough life.

>> I feel like that's the journey. Find

that, you know, like or like that quote,

uh, find something you love and figure

out a way to get paid for it. Like

that's the

>> that's great. But I think yeah, things

like that have just especially after my

accident. I'm like, yo, life is short.

I'm

>> there's

>> And it can go at any time.

>> Oh, it can go anytime. I've I've I've

learned I've been smacked in the face

over and over again, you know? Um,

>> yeah. and just always feeling like I

remember uh there's this guy named Harry

Shannon that was like very instrumental

in helping me get sober or me trying to

get sober before my accident when I got

sober and he's like you know I have to

ask men like if you died right now would

you be the man you'd want people to

remember you by and I'm like

I need to get to that place you know

that that's just where I want to sit

that's where I want to live you know

>> well I always tell tell people live your

life as if there's a documentary crew

roof following you around

and you're doing something awesome.

>> Like if you wanted to be inspired by

somebody and watch a documentary on

somebody doing some just someone who's

like, "Wow, that [ __ ] dude's getting

after it."

>> Be that person in real life.

>> The other thing I always tell people,

>> become the person you pretend to be when

you're trying to get laid.

>> It's so funny.

>> Or who you're pretending to be on the

internet or social media.

>> Yeah. Just actually become that person.

It's so much easier than pretending cuz

there's obviously someone that's like

that. That's why we understand the

archetype. That's why we understand like

this very exceptional person. So, become

that person.

>> Yeah.

>> You could do it. Anybody could do it. We

all change and grow. And that's what's I

think really important about people like

you telling your story is that there's a

lot of young people out there that don't

have anybody like you in their life and

they can see it and relate to you and

and it gives them fuel. It can your

story and just you talking about things

passionately can change a young person's

life. There's a young girl or a young

guy out there that can hear you and that

just your story makes them take a step,

makes them go in the right direction,

makes them make a move. Just something.

We all need something from other people.

We feed off of other people's energy.

>> Yeah. I I feel that like it's like when

people see David Gogggins for the first

time and you're like, "Oh, I'm going to

get after it. I'm going to get out. You

know what I mean? Like that's important.

Um yeah. And I didn't know I said, you

know, I've watched my doc like 15 20

times now and I just I even watched it

the other day at the premiere and I'm

like holding back tears and I'm like,

[ __ ] it's so heavy, you know? Um

but just the reaction from everyone is

like,

yo, that changed my life. Like I can't

look at life the same. And I'm like, if

anything, that's

>> I love that. you know,

>> we all need that.

>> I'd hate to put out. Also, it's not like

I made my own documentary. Um, but I was

honored and flattered someone wanted to

do this documentary with me, but like

hate to put out something that doesn't

help people, right?

>> You know,

>> right?

>> Is this water right here?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. There's a glass right in front of

you. Is there a go?

>> I ran What is it called? Lake Austin.

>> Uh-huh. Ladybird.

>> I ran it today. Yeah.

>> It's dope. It's so nice.

>> Isn't it beautiful?

>> So beautiful.

>> This is such a great place. If I lived

here, I would be out there every day and

tons of people running.

>> I know.

>> So cool.

>> There's a lot of healthy people in this

town.

>> And I I didn't My goal was to just wake

up and walk. I went to like this good

espresso spot that has like cortados.

Had a coffee and then uh I have like

long shorts on, like sweat shorts, cut

off sweats, suicidal tendency sweats,

and high socks and just regular shoes.

And where I come from, where I grew up

is called the Inland Empire. like and

I'm like, "Oh my god, I look so Inland

Empire right now. No shirt, long ass

sweat, suicidal tendencies." People are

like, "He's not from here." You know,

but I'm like, "Hey, I'm here with you

guys."

>> Yeah. But you blend right in. Everybody

blends in here. This is a very blended

town.

>> I love I love Austin.

>> It's great. It's cool.

>> Yeah. But that lake is uh a really fun

spot and again very inspirational, too,

because there's a lot of people getting

after it.

>> Yeah.

>> A lot of people look good. They look

healthy.

>> Yeah. It was like uh I don't know.

Honestly, I was surprised

>> really

>> from the moment I I touched down

yesterday just walking like my wife and

Rocky, we just went walking and there

was everyone was running even yesterday

and then today

>> it was like similar to when that feeling

where you in LA where you have like

those boot camps or whatever,

>> but there's no organized boot camp.

There's just people out out there

getting after it.

>> Yeah,

>> it was it I I love I love being around

that.

>> Well, this is a very fit town. I mean,

it's become the jiu-jitsu hub of the

country.

>> Really?

>> Yeah. It's kind of crazy. And it all

happened during the pandemic. You know,

there's a lot of things that changed

about this place because people got sick

of whatever the restrictions were for

where they lived, whether it was New

York or LA, and they came here and a lot

Well, it started out with Gordon Ryan.

Gordon Ryan and John Donner who are the

like Gordon's the greatest jiu-jitsu

athlete of all time and he moved here

and John Donaher is the greatest coach

of all time and he moved here and they

set up shop and then all the guys they

train with came here and then a ton of

other people just moved here and started

up schools too. So there's a ton of

jiu-jitsu going on here, a ton of MMA

going on here. There's gyms everywhere.

all these functional fitness gyms. It's

like is like a feeling here of there's

an energy of people that want to do

something that really want they want to

be active. They want to be excited about

something. They want to make something

happen. And I think a lot of that was

accentuated by the fact that this town

became like a a symbol of change for

them. Like wherever the [ __ ] I used to

live before, now I'm going to move to

this new thing and I'm going to really

take advantage of the fact that this is

different. that this place is different.

This is my new place. This is my new

feeling of my life. It's a new

environment. And then all these other

people that moved here have this similar

desire to like excel and

>> and make their life more exciting and

just it's an awesome place.

>> Yeah, I feel that. I think you usually

see it in New York or LA, but you see it

here. It's like everyone's in shape or

it's like feels like it's ahead,

>> you know?

>> Um

>> there's energy here.

>> Yeah. And there's energy here because of

the people that moved here. You know,

when we opened up the comedy club, I

mean, we we all came here because there

was nowhere we could perform in LA. LA

was locked down for comedy. And just

like you playing the drums and doing

music, comedians are addicted. They're

addicted to performing. They're addicted

to writing. They're addicted to like,

and a lot of these guys were young

people where their career just was shut

off. and you know, they're in their 20s

and they're they're pursuing their dream

and they're barely getting by. They're

making no [ __ ] money, but they're in

Hollywood. They're at the comedy store

and and all a sudden the comedy store is

closed for a year and a half. It was

[ __ ] nuts. And so when we came out

here, you know, it started off it was

Ron White and then me and Tony

Hinchcliffe and then it was like we lit

the fire and come on. And then next

thing you know it there's like 20

worldclass comedians moved to Austin

>> and we set up the club and then now

there's five clubs on my street on the

street where my club is. There's five

other clubs there. It's crazy. There's

so many comics here and it's just

exploding with creativity and enthusiasm

and momentum. There's like so much

momentum. Cam Patterson who came out of

here just got SNL. You know, Shane

Gillis obviously just became like the

biggest comic in the world and it's all

Kill Tony's the biggest live comedy show

in the world. That's out of my club.

It's all like

>> Oh, that's out of your club.

>> Yeah. Every Monday it's out of my club.

>> I get all the clippings from it all the

time and I'm like he's so funny. Also,

Ron I saw I saw Ron White and Shane

Gillis

>> uh at the Netflix sucks.

>> Oh, right.

>> At the Hollywood Bowl.

>> Yeah.

>> So good.

>> Yeah. I worked with Ron last night and

>> he's great. He's the best.

>> Yeah. Shane Gillis is my favorite,

obviously. He's so He's so funny.

>> He's the best.

>> He doesn't even have to say anything.

Just his face.

>> Well, he's just a great guy. Like, you

just love you when you're around him,

you're having fun. Like, he's just a big

He's a big smile.

>> Yeah.

>> You know,

>> I could imagine.

>> Yeah.

>> They were like, "Hey, do you want to go

meet him before the thing?" I'm like,

"No, no, no. Okay."

>> Like, I just want to I just want to

watch the show. Like, yeah.

>> I'm sure he'd love to meet you.

>> Yeah. It's just uh having a place where

a bunch of like-minded people are trying

to do the same thing is so important.

And if you don't have that in your life,

that's what I was talking about like

your story and your documentary and just

hearing you talk about stuff is so

important for people cuz we all need

other people that are doing a similar

thing or at least doing a thing that we

wish we were doing that gives us and it

might not be for them. It might not be

playing the drums. It might be painting.

It might be something else. But it's

like, "Oh, that guy has that feeling

about drums the way I have this feeling

about playing guitar or I have this

feeling about drawing pictures."

Whatever the [ __ ] it is. It's like, you

need to know that this feeling that you

have inside of you wanting to do

something special is not unique. There's

other people that have it. You just have

to find them. You have to find those

people. And if they're not around you,

at least now we have this amazing

ability to connect with these people

through the internet.

>> It's It's incredible.

>> Yeah. It's like they say like you are

who you you're the the closest five

people that are around you. Yep.

>> It's like the same thing.

>> Completely true. Completely true.

>> Yeah. I feel that too. And they don't

have to be doing exactly what you're

doing. Uh

>> yeah. I'm like in our old neighborhood

where Cuz were you on Khalifa?

>> Yes.

>> Okay. So I'm on Khalifa. You know, I

moved my studio. You literally left

>> like COVID hit. You left

>> and I moved in over there, right?

>> Yeah. I know. I heard. So, um I wonder

how close we were too. I think

>> well I think we were real close. I think

we were right down the street from each

other.

>> So, uh even just being in that

neighborhood like I I run a lot in

there, right? And one day I was running.

It was so it was so weird. I think I saw

your pod and Jean Jacques was on it,

right?

>> John Machado.

>> John Machado. And um and then the maybe

2 days later I'm at uh I'm I'm at Blue

Bottle grabbing a coffee and him and all

his boys from his his gym up. They're

like, "Hey, come train. Come train." And

I'm like, "Okay." And then the next day

I'm running and I don't even know where

his spot is and I'm running and then

there's his his dojo like you know his

gym

>> and uh and I just walked in and started

training. But being around him and like

his story like being around people who

have inspiring stories and are

motivating and and are are productive

and are hungry and you know it's the

biggest the biggest difference in the

world.

>> John Jock is an awesome soul. He's an

awesome guy.

>> What a great guy.

>> Yeah. I started training with him in

1998.

>> Yeah.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah. I was training

a lot and then uh was also running a

bunch and I tweaked my my leg.

>> Uh and I kind of learned I think like me

running all the time uh it wasn't the

best for jiu-jitsu.

>> No,

>> you need some strength training for

jiu-jitsu.

>> So now now it's a good balance. But um

>> what do you do for strength training?

>> It's tricky. I I used to just work out.

If I if I was here, I'd find someone I'd

work out with them or have have friends

I'd work out with or trainers back home.

But a lot of people see me and they're

like, "Bro, let's get let's get you

jacked." Well, that that's not that's

not functional for me. Not functional.

>> I need to be [ __ ] fast.

>> Yes.

>> And I need to be um fluent and

>> Yeah. So, a lot of people I I figured

out after years and years and years of

of working out with different people,

what's best for me is is fast twitch and

lots of reps, uh, lots of sprints, quick

explosive energy. I love boxing, love

jump roping. Um, and then a few days is

more like slow strength training,

>> but only followed by like I have to

finish with something fast, whether it's

>> 10 rounds on the bag or whatever else or

I literally

>> I remember there was a tour and I was

working out with someone and um we

hadn't yet figured it out. We work out

still together and we do we do something

called tempo training. So whatever music

is on, you're doing it to the tempo.

You're doing it for the length of the

song. So, it's much longer than you

would normally do something and it's

much quicker than you normally do

something, but that's how I play the

drums. And that's going to that's going

to um help me once I go back to what I

do and it's functional for what I do.

>> I like that.

>> But when I wasn't doing that and I was

just throwing around heavy weights and I

was putting on muscle,

>> I was I got behind a kit and I remember

I hadn't really tested it out and it was

the worst feeling in the world. I was so

tight. I was so slow. I didn't look like

this, but I felt like this. You know, it

was terrible. I was like, "Oh my gosh,

this isn't me. I need to be, you know,

like, and my goal, my only goal is to be

able to think something and do it,

execute,

uh, stamina wise, endurance wise, and

skill-wise. So, I'm always practicing,

and my stamina is always on point." So,

>> Well, drumming is like sprinting with

your arms.

>> Yeah. I mean, you're just like long-term

fast running with your arms.

>> Yeah. It's like volume punches.

>> Like all drummers have a similar build.

>> They're all like wiry and strong and

have like crazy endurance with their

arms. Like what you could do with your

arms is probably bananas. I bet you

could hit a [ __ ] speed bag all day

long.

>> I could do battle ropes. I love speed

bags. I I have one at the at the gym at

my studio.

>> That [ __ ] And it's all it's all

tempo. You have to find the rhythm. If

the rhythm's not right, you can't keep

the bag going, you know.

>> Um, battle ropes, you know, for 30, 40

minutes.

>> Okay.

>> Without stopping.

>> That's insane.

>> Yeah. Just like perfect thing for

drumming. I would imagine it's such a

similar motion.

>> Yeah.

>> You know,

>> but it's so different than like the

average person that wants to work out.

Like I don't get to do that, you know?

Even though it's cool or you look cool

or you put on certain amount of muscle,

whatever, I it's just I can't do it.

Well, it could get in your way for sure.

I mean, I think a a drummer wants to be

built like a welterweight boxer,

>> you know? You want to be like lean and

wiry and just have crazy endurance.

>> And if you just get an intelligent

trainer, they they understand what

you're trying to achieve. They could

achieve both goals. Like you can

strengthen things so that you don't get

injured in jiu-jitsu if you want to do

jiu-jitsu, but not overwhelm you with

mass.

>> Yeah.

>> You know?

>> Yeah. figured out like there's Yeah,

there's definitely certain exercises I

could do once I start training jiu-jitsu

again to make sure my legs are cool.

>> Well, a lot of like really elite

jiu-jitsu guys are not bulky at all.

There's a lot of like really thin guys

that are like very very high level,

especially because there's weight

classes and you know what's really

important is technique.

>> You know what's tricky is the hands,

too. Like not not crushing my hand and

making sure I'm always like gripping

properly and not leaving my fingers out

or

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If you break a finger, that's [ __ ]

>> Yeah. No, he's he's always so good about

that. It's like,

>> well, you just have if you're rolling

and stuff, you just have to make sure

you're not rolling with anybody that's

[ __ ] Anybody that's just like that

doesn't have controlled energy, you

know? That's the great thing about

rolling with black belts. Like, if I'm

rolling with a black belt, it's very

controlled. Like, we both know what

we're doing. So, everyone's like moving

in a very controlled pace. You very

rarely get injured.

>> When you get injured is when you're

rolling with like some young blue belt

who's on steroids. just [ __ ] jacked

out of his mind.

>> He's trying to choke you out and he's

just amped.

>> Yeah, I want to choke out choke out to

>> dude. I've been at I I was at a UFC gym.

Uh I forget where I was. I was somewhere

on tour and he's like, "Okay, let's spar

a little bit. We're supposed to be doing

light sparring, whatever, just

kickboxing, boxing." And he does a

spinning back fist. And I'm like, "Oh my

gosh." Like I have a show in 45 minutes,

man. Like chill. you know, um

>> you can't be getting concussed 45

minutes before. But I do love it. It's

very hard to control, too.

>> Yeah.

>> Once you start that rotation and that

spin and that arm going around,

>> I was I was almost dunzo.

>> Yeah.

>> My son was there. He's like, "Oh,

>> I was like, yeah, it probably wasn't

that wasn't good." But yeah, but

training is Yeah, it's it's so awesome.

Um

>> it's great for getting rid of

aggression, too. Like just cleans your

mind up. It makes you relaxed.

>> For sure. And it humbles you, I think.

>> Oh, yeah. I

>> feel like everyone should train or at

least do it at some point in their life

because it humbles you. And

>> yeah, I feel like there'll be a lot less

like hottheads or testosterone out

there. You know what I mean?

>> 100%. Jiu-jitsu people are some of the

most laid-back and chill people that can

kill you that you'll ever meet.

>> Yeah, totally.

>> Most of them are like very easygoing,

really kind, and very relaxed. And I

feel like it's something you can do even

as you age.

>> Oh, 100%. Yeah. As long as you're

training with good, smart people. Yeah.

>> You know, that's the thing. You got to

pick your training partners wisely

because that's what gets you injured is

spastics. People that freak out. And you

know, I used to be a [ __ ] I get it.

You know, when I was young, when I was

first starting out, I was very

aggressive and

>> trying to just just force everything. He

do everything fat. And then but then one

day you'll train with someone like John

Jacques and John Jacques just he never

explodes. He ne he's never out of

balance. He's never out of position.

Everything's just smooth and effortless.

And he's talking to you like while he's

rolling. Joe Hogan, look out for your

arm. Joe Hogan. He's like he's he's

having fun.

>> Good.

>> Yeah. And it's that's it's an art. It

really is. Especially when it's done

well like the way Jean Jacqu can do it.

It's like it is an art. It's beautiful

to watch. You watch someone with a

beautiful guard pass and then nail a

triangle and it's like, "Oh my god, it's

beautiful."

>> Yeah. And I think I had done it in the

past and it was it was it was a lot of

fun and it was almost like chess up

here,

>> but I didn't feel

like it was a much of a workout. Whereas

with him, it's like 2 hours. He's making

it like a show. There's no there's no

stopping for long periods of time and

we're just dripping sweat

>> and I weigh a buck 50 and he's whatever

200, you know, and he's just Yeah, it

it's it is a workout and it's just

challenging and

>> you're engaged the whole time and feel

it just feels good.

>> And you when then if you watch fights,

you really appreciate what's going on

cuz you've tried to do that and you know

like cuz a lot of people get very

delusional when they watch fights like

get in there, I'll [ __ ] I'd [ __ ]

these guys up. Like, you have this Most

men have a very delusional understanding

of or belief in their ability to fight.

>> So, doing it gives you like, oh, this is

[ __ ] really hard. And then you watch

people at an elite level, you know, you

watch Chugashan Ali or someone like that

and you're like, oh [ __ ] that's hard to

do what he just did. That's crazy. Yeah.

It like gives you a real true

appreciation of the amount of effort and

the amount of just discipline and

intensity that this guy's put in over

years and years and years to achieve

this level where you're watching

something spectacular in front of 15,000

people and millions of people on

television.

>> Dude, I couldn't imagine. Yeah. I was

with Dom one time and uh me and Dom

Cruz, he was just like, "Try to sleep

me." And I'm like, "Okay." And you know

how fast he is and how like I swing and

he's over here. you know, it was like,

oh, it was so humiliating. But, um, and

then he just was just grappling me and

not letting me move. And he's like, he's

like, don't ever don't ever when you're

in a fight be like, do something, do

something. This is what it feels like.

You know, he was just keeping me there.

And I'm like,

>> oh, I have much more respect for just

>> Yeah. When someone's even just holding

someone against the fence, that that

feels awful, you know, and it drains

you. It drained me. Yeah. And then to

start a fresh round where I'm trying to

sleep him was it was it was imposs it

was impossible to begin with, but it was

even more impossible. You know,

>> his footwork is ridiculous.

>> It's ridiculous. And he really invented

a lot of his footwork. Like his footwork

is very Dominic Cruz when he was the

champion when he was a bantamweight

champion had some of the most elusive

footwork that anybody had ever seen

before. It was so unique and so

different and you couldn't get anybody

to emulate it in training cuz Dom's

system he he pretty much developed on

his own. And there's a lot of videos of

him training it. A lot of videos of him

moving. And it's so unusual that you see

guys in front of him and they're just

mesmerized because it's step here, step

there, pop, step here, kick, step here,

elbow, and you're like, "Fuck, where is

he?"

>> Yeah. you know, and that was such a

smart because he's such an intelligent

guy, which is why he's such a great like

MMA analyst.

>> Yeah, he's so good.

>> So smart. And he just really figured out

like, okay, I don't have the most power.

I'm not the strongest guy. I'm not the

biggest guy. What What can I have? What

can I develop that gives me an advantage

over everybody? Well, I can be like the

most elusive, the most slick moving guy

that's ever existed. And I feel like a

lot of people in his division adopted it

from him.

>> Oh, for sure. Figured it out, you know.

>> Well, they had to adapt.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, when that guy's, you know,

dominating people and you you can't do

anything about I mean, he humiliated a

lot of people. He was in front of them

and they they they developed this style

that was fine if someone's standing

right in front of you and engaging with

you like some right in front of you and

there to be hit and taking a shot and

then giving one back. Donald was doing

none of that. He was like, "Whoop! Here

I'm over here. Boop." He was like, you

know, very much like uh Lomachenko did

in boxing, just doing weird [ __ ] that

people hadn't seen before

>> and really kind of again developed it on

his own. If you look at like his the

camp that he came out of in San Diego,

there wasn't other guys doing it like

that. It was really just him.

>> Yeah.

>> Very, very unique guy. But I love that

there's styles that sort of rise that

that that exist that someone just sort

of creates. They just realize like what

what do I have physically as a you know

as my tools and how can I implement

these tools in a way that's different

than anything that these guys have seen

before.

>> Yeah. Cuz there was nothing like him.

>> No,

>> there was nothing. But then you see guys

that came up after him, guys like TJ

Dillashaw who was also awesome with

footwork. And you know, a lot of his

footwork guarantee was inspired by

watching Dominic and a lot of these

other guys that are these Cory Sanhagen

guys that are constantly switching

stances.

>> Same thing.

>> They all this this the style developed

out of that because before Dominic Cruz,

there really was no one who had footwork

like that. Not even close. Mm-m.

>> And so when you see TJ, you know, like

who in in my opinion was one of the

greatest bantamweights of all time, like

when he beat Hennon Barau, like one of

which was Hen Bar at the time was

thought to be, if not the best

pound-for-pound fighter in the world, at

least number two behind Jose Aldo, and

he was undefeated. And TJ just styled on

him. I mean, it was and he went out

there like he was sparring. It wasn't

even like he was fighting for the world

title. He went out there like super

loose and focused and relaxed and just

switching stances and cutting angles and

hitting him with shots and move to the

left and hitting him with a head kick to

the right like [ __ ]

>> Yeah, he put on a show. That fight was

crazy.

>> One of the greatest title winning

performances in the history of the sport

for sure.

>> I wish I wish he he didn't, you know,

struggle with so many injuries. Yeah.

>> And everything cuz he was

>> It's a tragedy. It

>> was phenomenal.

>> It is a tragedy. I mean, he has

significant shoulder injuries like uh to

the point where I think he's going to

have to get artificial shoulders.

>> Damn.

>> Cuz he had um no super spanatus on both

arms. It was just completely ripped off

and he would just like strengthen all

the other muscles and just deal with it

and then it would just pop out. You

know, when he fought Aljmaine Sterling,

he told the referee in the green room,

he said, "My shoulder's going to pop

out, but it's okay. I'll put it back.

Let me keep fighting."

>> Imagine that. You're going to fight

Alamine Sterling for the world title,

who's a beast and one of the best

grapplers ever.

>> And you're thinking, uh, I I have to

deal with the fact that my shoulder is

going to definitely get dislocated in

this fight cuz it just doesn't stay.

>> Yeah.

>> It's just this loose [ __ ] thing that

just pops out all the time and he's

trying to fight

>> and just just all will and

>> discipline and intensity.

>> Wait, that was Dom's shoulder too,

right? Towards the end.

>> Dom had a bunch.

>> I mean, he had the ACL's. Yeah, he had

ACL's. He had The shoulder was the last

one. That was the the last draw. His

last shoulder surgery. Yeah. I mean,

look, it's the human body is not

designed to be punched and kicked and to

be grappled and strangled and twisted

and arm barred. It's like at a certain

point in time, it just gives out.

>> Yeah.

>> That's just how it is.

>> Yep. And it sucks because, you know,

some of these guys have so much more to

give in their mind and their body just

fails them after a certain point in

time. And you see that with some of

these older guys, it's like they've just

had a bunch of knee surgeries and maybe

a back surgery and a this and that and

then they're a shadow of themselves

inside the octagon.

>> Yeah. Sometimes it's sad to watch, you

know, but I I also understand

the feeling of that's all you know and

you just want to keep fighting. Well,

it's also they have this insane belief

in themselves and they always think that

>> it's what got them there also. You know,

>> that's how they became a champion in the

first place. Like people telling you,

you never play the drums. You're never

going to run. You're never going to

>> and you're like, I'll show you. And

that's how they all are. They're all

like, I'll show and like it's over. You

got to hang it up. It's over. Your time

is gone. Like, no, no, no. I got one

more in me. Yeah.

>> I got I got three or four more fights in

me. I'm going to fight until I'm 41 or

whatever it is.

>> That would be so hard. I think of Dustin

and I think of like even his fight

against Islam

>> and his fight against uh what's the

French fighter?

>> Ben Was under.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Dog, I I couldn't tell myself I need to

hang up the gloves if I fought like that

in those fights.

>> He's a [ __ ] beast, you know? He's a

beast.

>> Like Dustin to me isn't

>> he doesn't look like he's at the end of

his career. He's still very competitive.

And that was I think that was the best

fight against Islam any anyone's fought.

You know,

>> it was a very good fight. He's elite. I

mean, Dustin's an elite fighter.

>> So, I could see being Dustin and

struggling with like, ah, this is

>> hard for me to stop fighting cuz you're

that [ __ ] good, you know?

>> Well, with Dustin, the the physical

issues aren't even really like joints

and neck, and it's his head. Mhm.

>> He's had too many brain injuries and

that's he's got some sort of a

separation between the two halves of his

brain. There's like some issue with the

the center of his brain. I don't know.

>> I didn't even know about that.

>> Yeah, he's talked about it pretty

openly. But I mean, you know, he had

that that incident where he got drunk

and

got crazy that but that's a lot of that

is CTE, I guarantee. And you know, he's

he's doing a lot of things to try to

mitigate that. and he's seeking help and

really there there are some ways that

you can recover at least in some way and

and improve on what you're doing. But I

think for him it's best to not be

fighting anymore. You know, it's just at

a certain point in time

>> you're only going to accumulate more

damage and then whatever you're dealing

with now is just going to get worse and

then maybe you can't recover from it.

>> True.

>> And you know, he's got a family and he's

in this situation where it's like I want

to be there for my family. I don't want

to be this guy that's like completely

compromised when I'm 50, 60 years old

where I can't walk anymore and someone's

got to take me around or hold my hand.

>> Yeah.

>> Cuz there are guys like that, you know,

especially like older boxers. You run

into some old boxers and it's like it's

really sad, man.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, you see guys like Tommy Hearns

talking like not much older than me and

you see him talking and moving around,

you're like, "Fuck." Like he paid a

price.

>> Yeah. These guys pay a price. It's a

rough way to make a living.

>> Yeah, the fight game is crazy.

>> Craziest.

>> I'm happy my drums don't hit me back

straight up. You know, I'm like,

>> yeah, it's also you can do what you do

for a long time. I mean, you can play

drums for a long time. when you're

fighting, your peak is such a small

window of life and it's just you there's

so much that you have to pour into it

and then eventually you have to realize

that that window's closed and you have

to move on. Even though you're still

young and you still have all this life

and look at a guy like Dustin, he looks

[ __ ] great, you know? He looks great.

He sounds great. When you're talking to

him, he seems like he's all there.

Physically, he looks like he's never

been better. But

>> the windows closed, you know? There's

>> there's these young guys coming up and

they don't have the injuries that you

have. They don't have the problems that

you have. They don't have the wear and

tear and and they're going to get to you

before you get to them. And maybe they

wouldn't have gotten to you five years

ago or six years ago, but they can now.

And it's just not there anymore. And

it's hard for guys to accept because

their entire identity is based on this

one thing that's very fleeting. So

that's that would be the most difficult

thing in the world, you know.

>> Yeah. But the glory that they experience

is above and beyond anything we're ever

going to know.

>> I heard someone talking about it um and

they they were saying imagine being a

cage fighter and it's all you've

prepared for for the last 20 years to be

locked in a cage in your underwear to

scrap with someone and have the most

grueling fight camps and then you're

just we're just going to take you out of

it and you can't do that anymore.

>> Yeah. It's like that's all you've known,

you know? It's it's a

>> they experienced a different life

>> than than us, you know?

>> Their highs are way higher.