- Governor Newsom, welcome to "The Axios Show."

- Good to be with you.

- It’s Axios

we like to get to the point.

So, let's dive into your book.

So, let's dive into your book.

New book, "Young Man in a Hurry."

- Uh-huh. - It's a bestseller.

- Uh-huh. - It's a bestseller.

You write a lot about how you often put on a mask

when you were younger. - Yeah.

- And then as you grew up, your face sort of molded

into the mask. - Yeah, yeah.

- So, who is the real Gavin Newsom?

- Well, that was part of the book.

I mean, it was about scrutinizing my life, not sanitizing.

It's about going back, and it became subtext there

as a memoir of discovery.

I had to go back and sort of uncover true secrets,

lies that I never fully understood or absorbed.

And it allowed me through that process to connect

with my parents in a deeper way.

They'd both passed away when I was writing this book

and of course connect with my grandparents,

and folks that I didn't know much about.

And so it was a remarkably cathartic process

and it's a process that was illuminating,

alarming in some respects,

and explains more things about who I am today

than I ever understood.

My anxieties, my insecurities, some strengths,

weaknesses that have echoes generationally.

So, it was a remarkable experience.

Anyone that's done something like this understands, I think.

But for me this was not by design.

This was not the book that I was intending to write

and it started to write itself,

over the course of five years.

- So, is the mask, you know, is it the slicked back hair?

Is it the suits?

Like, what's the mask and what's the person underneath?

- Well, you know, I, the old phrase,

I think it was a George Orwell short story about

how he shot an elephant and how he put a mask on

and his face grew into it.

- Yeah. - And it became something

that he never even understood or expected to become,

but he ultimately had to pose the old Oscar Wilde pose

that the first duty in life is to assume a pose.

The second duty, no one knows.

And so this notion of pose, this,

what I expected to be as a son,

what I expected to be as a brother,

what I expected to be from the perspective of success,

societally, what that meant.

I had to be something that wasn't about doing something.

It was about this notion of, you know,

trying to put on, as you suggest, not just a mask,

but a suit and tie, the hair gel,

to become how society expected me to behave.

And finding in that process, this young man

that was in a hurry that didn't see the world

from anyone else's sets of eyes.

And I talk about that very honestly

in terms of relationship with my mom,

relationship with my family,

and how I was just charging ahead,

trying to be, be, be, be, be,

and how I had some moments

that defined sort of a stepping back and a reflection,

and going deeper to try to understand

what the real motivations are.

So, for me, it just, it was about,

as so often as the case when you write,

and you're writer, I'm not,

but just letting go, just letting go, just, and it's okay.

All the warts and all, if you're looking for perfection,

I mean, that's the last book you should look for.

If you're looking for perseverance, maybe it's interesting.

And I think that's the pose perhaps now

is that I'm not trying to be something anymore,

- Mm. - trying to do something,

and I'm okay about the third thing,

which is how you may feel about it.

I can't control that.

And so much of my life,

and I think it's sort of subtext in the book,

was trying to control things I can't control.

- Mm-hmm. - And you start to realize,

and that's why I say sort of letting go

at a certain point in your life.

It's not what happens to us, it's how we respond

to what's happened,

but that's the only thing you can control,

and there's freedom to that at the same time.

- So, this is, by writing this book,

- So, this is, by writing this book,

this is you pulling the mask off in some ways.

- Yeah, in some ways, or it's just reflecting on

what so often is the case with young people,

with so often the case with a lot of people that we,

you know, we are sort of shaped by

how society expects us again to behave,

and, you know, we're shaped by,

you know, by our relationship to family

and their expectations, their unfinished work,

shaped by friends, by communal relationships.

And so, so many people finding not their path,

but finding someone else's past, living not their life,

but living someone else's life.

And so I try to navigate that throughout the book,

but also navigating the context of being

living in two worlds, my father's world

and then my mother's world,

and how that also shaped me and feeling at times

connected to both, but also an imposter in both.

And so that's what I tried to pull back,

a little bit of the curtain of what people perceive

and believe about me,

and my lived experience in the context of who I am,

but also who I'm becoming.

- I mean, it is an unusual political memoir

- I mean, it is an unusual political memoir

in that at times, you know,

it read to me almost like an overshare,

especially for a politician.

Why did you do that?

- 'Cause I don't, I'm, (sighs) let it go.

- Hmm. - Yeah.

So, guys like me come and go.

You know, I'm the future ex-governor.

I remember saying when I ran for mayor, I got sworn in.

I think the inaugural speech was,

"I'm your future ex-mayor." (chuckles)

I mean, that's why it feels like it's

black and white movie days.

So, I deeply know my status.

And I don't, my status, why we're even sitting here.

Sort of it's situational, it's moments.

You have moments in time.

And, you know, I don't wanna look back at my life

and dream of regretting.

And I think that's really shaped my politics

in the last couple years.

I've just shifted so much of-

- Become less risk averse.

- I just, yeah, though I've always maintained.

I mean, you can see that.

I mean, back in 2004, I was marrying same-sex couples,

- Mm-hmm. - I mean.

So, I've always been out there.

I think a lot of that is part of, you know,

and I write honestly

about my own learning disabilities and dyslexia.

I think that also deeply shapes

my more of an entrepreneurial mindset,

a willingness to take risks,

try new things to iterate.

And I've taken that entrepreneurial framework

and the small business background I have

into the politics of my life.

But I think more importantly, again, it's just, again,

I said the third thing, not caring

as much about the third thing, the thing I can't control,

and just allowing it to be.

And I don't want it to sound overly stoic here,

but I also just, I think it's part

of a maturation of my life.

I don't know if there's wisdom in it

but there's experience in it,

and I share,

and to the extent it's political,

and yeah, most of us are not willing to overshare,

- Mm-hmm. - because we wanna say,

- Mm-hmm. - because we wanna say,

"Well, I tried this, it didn't work, and in that failure,

I became much stronger,

and now I'm much wiser,

and that's why I have a 10-point plan

for America's renewal."

I didn't wanna go there.

- Yeah. - I wanted to go deeper,

and I wanted to really challenge the assumptions

that I was making about myself and those experiences,

and go a step further to challenge them again.

- Yeah, you didn't wanna, like,

"What's your weakness? Why try too hard?"

- Yeah, right, exactly. I care too much.

I mean, if you hear another one of those answers.

- It's Yellow Gavin. - Thank you.

Yeah, no, exactly.

And look, the critics are gonna say that,

and that's all good.

And again, in the past, I don't wanna control that.

I wanna challenge that and I talk about that in the book,

how I was trying to challenge perceptions about me,

- Mm-hmm. - and how I played into that.

I played the type when you're dressed up,

and, you know, your suit and tie,

and, you know, I was doing that in high school,

and you're putting the,

you're playing into that,

even as you're pushing back against it.

And so I also scrutinize that aspect of me.

And now, again, I'm just willing to accept those things,

which I cannot control.

As much as they may be frustrating,

as much as, yeah, I'm human,

I don't like that characterization, I don't like

what's on Fox 24/7. - Mm-hmm.

- in the California Derangement

or the Gavin Newsom Derangement Syndrome.

- Mm-hmm. - Dare I suggest

that's not just Trump

and how that caricature sort of shapes people's perceptions

of me and my live reality

in that respect. - Yeah.

- But again, there's certain things

that I simply cannot control.

- The word slick bothers you.

- Yeah, of course, and it would, I think anybody.

But then again, - Sure.

- I get why I play into it.

You know, if I was sitting here with you

and I had a baseball hat on and, you know, I just showed up,

and, you know, just I get how,

I mean, I could, but then I'm fake,

and I'm also not, then I'm not myself.

So, to the extent this is

who I've become, it's what I am.

You don't have to like it.

It's okay. I respect that.

I'm not trying to be something now I'm not.

And you have 1000 alternatives.

You can turn this interview off right now.

You can tune into someone else or something else,

you can tune up or tune down,

and that's okay, and again, I'm not trying to chase that

or chase something the way

that "Young Man in a Hurry"

was constantly chasing things.

- You brought up your dyslexia.

President Trump the other week said that he believes

President Trump the other week said that he believes

a president should not have learning disabilities.

Is he wrong?

- (chuckles) Well, maybe prime ministers can.

I mean, Churchill was one of them, I don't know,

idiots like Edison,

you know, and huge Trump supporters like Chuck Schwab

and, you know, other, you know,

famously unsuccessful people like Richard Branson.

I don't know. It's rather curious.

I think some of the most successful and talented

and some of the most daring entrepreneurs

tend to share some learning differences.

I think Trump and I share some learning differences,

dare I say.

He's not, I mean, he's not linear in many respects, okay?

So, you know, I see this, you know,

it's a weakness in some respects.

He's right about that.

I write about that and I write about that struggle.

I write about my mom saying it's okay to be average

and a frustration that I was struggling to read.

I talk about the fact that I struggle

to read a speech on a page.

That's why you don't see me do this.

I could do it on a teleprompter, but spatially,

I can't, it's not my skillset,

but I, make up for it in a lot of different ways.

What hurts me about that is how many kids

and families were hurt by his statement.

And I'm not saying that flippantly, I'm not.

I'm used to the Trump attacking me 24/7.

I'm used to the Trump attacking me 24/7.

"New-scum," the, you know, the whole thing.

"New-scum," the, you know, the whole thing.

But the amount of families that reached out to me

and kids that have reached out to me

hurt by those statements,

because they didn't see me in there, they saw themselves.

And that's why I find him,

everybody's redeemable, at times irredeemable,

shameful, a shameful leader.

We all deserve something better than that.

We all deserve something better than that.

People that voted for him

deserve something better than that,

people that are opposed to him

deserve something better,

we all deserve something better than that,

and we're all better than what our identity is

as it relates to dyslexia that doesn't define us.

I didn't know that for years,

and I struggled with that identity, that I was dumb.

And so when you're told by the president

of the United States that that's the case,

you don't like it, but allows me, again, perseverance

and more grit and more energy,

particularly to have the backs of these kids

because I know exactly how they feel

sitting in the back of the classroom.

I know exactly how they feel, oftentimes dumb.

I know exactly what they're going through

and their parents are going through

because I lived it, my mom lived it.

And for all those parents and for all those kids,

shame on Donald Trump.

And they have remarkable capacity,

as long as they develop confidence.

And that's what he's trying to shatter.

That's what he's always trying to shatter, is confidence.

He's about exploiting weakness. That's his one strength.

That's his superpower.

Exploiting your weakness, sizing up your weakness.

What he doesn't respond to is strength.

And I think all of us have to have the strength

of character, something he doesn't understand,

and will to push back against it.

- Lots of Democrats have cheered on the way that you've,

you know, challenged Trump,

but it has brought on some detractors.

Former Obama advisor, David Axelrod, said that

some of the way you've gone after Trump amounts to,

and these are his words, "self-puffery."

So, are you a self-puffer, Governor?

- I'm trying to put a mirror up to Trump and Trumpism,

and I wanna call out the deviancy,

and with all due respect to those critics,

and with all due respect to those critics,

I don't think they were doing an effective job.

I don't think they were doing an effective job.

I don't think we were winning that narrative battle.

I don't think we were winning that narrative battle.

I think he was shape shifting. We were being shaped shifted.

We were on our heels, not our toes.

He was flooding the zone, talking awe,

and he had this complicit media across the spectrum

that didn't see that there was anything wrong.

President of the United States dressing up as the Pope,

dressing up as, you know, Superman

or putting his face on Mount Rushmore.

And so I felt like we needed to push back

on that with humor.

And when we put the mirror up,

it wasn't just up against Trump,

it was against all his enablers.

It was about Fox Network.

It was about all the folks that called out my behavior,

but weren't necessarily calling out the president's.

And so our whole approach

is about focusing again on how none of this

can be allowed to be normalized and giving him no quarter

and allowing this normalization

that he is trying to shape-shift.

And it's when we give up on that

and when we deny our own eyes and those certain facts

and we try to be holier than thou

and win the argument

that these guys are consolidating power.

The right is ruthless

and we need to be more ruthless as a party,

including with respect to what those critiques are,

in terms of our comms, in terms of our narrative,

in terms of our strategy to go on the offense, at peril,

I really believe this will lose this country.

I really believe this will lose this country.

- MS NOW's Chris Hayes recently compared you

to Hillary Clinton.

He said that you have actually a fairly centrist record,

but- - Oh, I appreciate

the compliment, Hillary's a remarkable superstar,

but forgive me. - Well, no, no, no.

Well, the comparison is that you have

a fairly centrist record,

but the base doesn't fully trust you,

and swing voters, and this is quoting Chris,

consider you the "Libbious lib who's ever lived."

Are you Hillary 2.0?

- I don't even know what,

I don't fully understand his punditry,

and so I'm not familiar with it.

I am familiar with Hillary Clinton

and I have mad respect for her,

also familiar with my record.

And to the extent there is another elected official

that's done universal healthcare regardless

of preexisting conditions, ability to pay,

and regardless of your immigration status

where I'm attacked often.

- Mm-hmm. - We delivered it.

Now, I don't know any other elected official that's done

$25 minimum wage for healthcare workers, $20 minimum wage

for fast food workers that created child savings accounts

for 5.5 million Californians

well before the Trump accounts were conceived

that created not a subsidy,

but a new product, $11 insulin

that created a brand new grade at scale

preschool for all 379,000 subsidized childcare slots,

doubled the earned income tax credit,

created a child tax credit,

paid family leave, paid sick leave.

It's a pretty progressive record,

and we don't even get into low carbon green growth.

The environmental record what I'll put up against anyone.

So, across the spectrum of issues,

I'm proud not to have talked about it,

but to delivered on these things.

And I won't even get into the black and white movie days

of free community college,

and things that people are promoting.

So, I'm very proud of that, at the same time,

I don't think you have to be profligate to be progressive.

And I don't think being, you know, you can't sort of argue

to be pro-job and anti-business.

And so I have an entrepreneurial background.

I started a small business, write about it in the book,

created about a 1000 employees at peak, 21 businesses.

I don't say that to impress anyone,

but to impress upon you,

I have a different lived experience as a progressive

but pragmatic politician that believes we're all better off

when we're all better off, growth and inclusion.

And so to the extent that is not knitted easily

in one sort of old category of punditry, good,

because I'm not that.

I'm not going to allow people to categorize

something I'm not when I'm open to argument,

I'm interested in evidence.

I believe in the spirit of Clinton, community, opportunity,

but also Democrats,

we need to talk about it, responsibility.

And that's a three-legged stool,

often we're focused too much on two of those legs,

and responsibility I think is an attribute.

That's why I'm very proud if he wants to quote

or at least reflect the relationship

to the Clintons, who I admire.

- Barack Obama recently praised you

- Barack Obama recently praised you

for your leadership on Prop 50.

Have you guys stayed in touch?

- Yeah, I saw him at Jesse Jackson's memorial

just a few weeks ago,

and I've had the privilege of being

on a number of phone calls

and conversations with him, and he's-

- What do you talk about? - Well, I'll tell you,

I was very, I'll be candid with you and full disclosure.

I should now, I'll say it publicly.

I remember calling him very nervous

when I was seeking his advice.

It wasn't even approval or support, it was just advice.

- Last summer? - Yeah, on Prop 50.

He goes, "You know, when they go low, we go high.

I just, I was expecting that,

and he cut that, right?

I didn't even get into the conversation

and he says, "I just wanna let you know.

I like what you're saying all this and I hope you do this."

- Hmm. - And it would just

sort of moved us, you know, a different gear

in terms of the relationship

and he really supported that campaign,

did a bunch of Zoom calls with us and campaigned for it

and was extraordinary.

And he gave us the cover

and the moral authority despite, you know,

all of his work that he did

around independent redistricting,

in which we all promote and believe in,

by the way, the voters of California do as well,

because I'll remind you in Prop 50,

was fighting fire with fire, respectfully,

we need to fight fire with fire.

It was about substance, not style,

because we actually successfully shifted five seats,

we believe, into the blue column,

but it also affirmed from a national prism,

the people of the State of California,

calling for a national independent redistricting commission,

which we must do to get away from the politics

of gerrymandering, but we also have to save this country

from the recklessness

and the wrecking ball that is a Trump presidency

who's trying to rig the election before one vote is cast

this November and he's just winding up,

in a dozen other efforts,

literally a dozen other strategies

to try to rig the 2026 election.

That's how serious this moment is.

- Have you talked to former President Obama

- Have you talked to former President Obama

about another potential future campaign?

- No, I haven't had those conversations.

- CNN also said, reported that you've been talking

to former President Biden too.

What have you guys been talking about?

- Well, I, (sighs)

you know, as you know I have a strong relationship

with the former president and someone I deeply admire

and deeply respect,

and feel a deep connection to.

You know, not least of which, you know, I might write

in my book about my father's love of Seamus Heaney,

and, you know, President Biden's love of Seamus Heaney.

And you know, so much of his experiences

mirror so many of my father's.

I see my father in so many ways,

the way I see President Biden.

That's one of the reasons I was so loyal to the end

and I happily will take the arrows on that and defend that.

But no, I'm blessed to have gotten to know him

to defend him, defend his character,

and continue to defend his record.

And I think it was a masterclass of policy making.

I'm old fashioned.

I believe in politics,

it's about good ideas, better policy,

and he delivered the chips and science.

and he delivered the chips and science.

like delivered on the infrastructure bill,

delivered on the IRA,

delivered on a worker-centered industrial policy,

delivered on the SAVE Act,

and delivered on issues for veterans.

Delivered tough bills, many of them in a bipartisan way,

over 400 bipartisan bills in a way

that I think deserves some more recognition,

candidly, than he's received. - I mean, are you talking

to him about foreign policy, current events?

to him about foreign policy, current events?

What are you talking about (stutters)?

- I just, what we're - Yeah.

- talking about last time I talked to him

without breaking trust.

He was, again, very appreciative

of some of the work we were trying to do,

fight fire with fire.

- Hmm. - But I was

talking to him about, he's right in the middle,

near the end of, not now the middle,

but almost at the end of writing his memoir and book,

and how he's spending the day,

and not, be candid with you,

it's just, frankly, I was just checking in on his health.

- Mm. - How you doing?

You know, how- - And is that

- How's it going. - Biden that you're

talking to capable of being president today?

- That's, look, you know,

the health issues have obviously accelerated

and become more real.

And, you know, I saw him, didn't have a chance to engage,

but I just sat right two rows behind him

at the Jackson Memorial as well.

I regret that we didn't have a chance to say hello.

I had to sneak out right after he spoke.

But (sighs) look, I think, you know, obviously,

time of life has caught up, particularly as it relates

to the physical challenges he's had,

and particularly with this diagnosis.

and particularly with this diagnosis.

- So, former Vice President Kamala Harris,

why don't you guys like each other?

- It's a preposterous premise of a question

because we absolutely do.

- Well, she took a shot at you - And I know it was-

- Well, she took a shot at you - And I know it was-

- Well, she took a shot at you - And I know it was-

- in her book, you didn't speak at her convention.

I mean, we can even go back

to the San Francisco days. - Well I did, I-

- Her and Guilfoyle, I mean-

- No, but- - There seems to be

something there. - No, quite the contrary.

I introduced her at the convention.

It was even more personal.

I actually was the one that got enough votes

that gave her the nomination

and I had the privilege of speaking

in front of the convention.

So, it was the ultimate affirmation

of that relationship.

That goes- - So, BFFs.

- That goes back 20-plus years,

goes back before we were both in politics,

when we spent time together,

been on vacations with mutual friends,

out of the country together.

So, I've known her for years and years,

and all these kind of coronations.

I just think we've always been

on the same ballot. - Mm-hmm.

- When I got sworn in as mayor,

I write about it in the book. - Yeah.

- Walked across street, swore her in as district attorney.

Obviously she made her way to the state.

I made my way to state shortly thereafter.

And so I've always had a relationship

in that respect, but I also have known my relationship

to that relationship, that when she goes, she goes first.

- Mm. - And I've always

understood that and that's wonderful.

And I think the press and pundits

wanna make something of that.

And so they try to color it in.

She gave me a little shot as it relates

to the actual truth of the walk I was on.

And I remember texting her back.

I said, "Come on, I've already put out a statement

supporting you, the last person you need to talk to."

But for whatever reason she added that in,

I think it created some color for the book.

- Mm. - It certainly helped

her books out, not my component part,

but that book has done unbelievably well.

- Did you read it? - Extraordinary well.

- I did not fully read it. I've got it.

I've read excerpts.

I admit Kamala, I have not fully absorbed the book.

I should but I was more focused on getting mine out.

- Well, I was curious, given what you also just said

- Well, I was curious, given what you also just said

about President Biden, were you surprised

that some of the shots she took

at former President Biden in the book?

- I'm just, I'll leave it to her, I'm not...

I, you know what? (chuckles) Read my book.

I'm not surprised by anything I mean, life is life.

We all, we have situational judgments.

We have some we look back with regret

that didn't stand the test of time.

People do what they need to do in the moment,

and then they feel one way in this moment.

They may feel differently in another moment,

different circumstance, but it, you know, again,

here's the word, and it's a word I use often, grace,

just grace and some humility as well.

We've, you know, we've all said things you know,

and there's certain things we haven't said

that we wish we could say too,

but knowing, you know, how those become

their own weather systems

and they become these massive distractions.

And in the world of politics and punditry,

we're so prone to distractions

and we're dealing with the shock in eye of the master

of distraction and chaos Donald Trump.

So, tend not to try to run into that.

- I know you said you're not surprised by anything,

but were you surprised she didn't run for governor?

- I wasn't surprised.

I was surprised that everybody was surprised,

but coming off a grueling campaign,

coming off what she went through over the course

last six, seven years

when she ran for president and just knowing her,

and the hard work and the sacrifice,

spent time with her in the White House.

We had a few wonderful moments,

including just a legendary lunch the two of us had,

or we were making phone calls on my phone

because she didn't get the kind of phone that I have,

which is with my old contacts

and we were, so she said,

"Who's... Do you remember so and so?"

Were having one of these nostalgic things.

And I had so much empathy, I'm like,

"Oh my gosh, you know, you need to get out of here

being stuck in the White House."

And I just, I was so I walked out of there as governor

feeling so free and really empathetic for people.

That's why I'm a little more empathetic about Trump

wanting to get out of the White House every week.

It becomes, you know, so, you know,

many ways claustrophobic physically and emotionally.

But no, it's, you know, look,

Kamala, just on Kamala is an incredibly talented person

who can do anything.

She doesn't have to be anything anymore.

She was the first female vice president,

female African American vice president.

She's first female African American

rather nominee of our party.

She's lived an extraordinary life.

She's exceeded so many people's expectations,

maybe not her own, and she may run for another office,

she may run you know, for school board.

I don't know what her future will hold,

and I'll be supportive of her, I always have been.

- I'm gonna do a hard pivot to a less complicated topic,

the Middle East. - Mm-hmm.

Less- - So, uh...

- Yeah, there's no nuance

in this conversation. - (chuckles) There's been

some headlines, I just wanna clear this up.

Yes or no, do you consider Israel an apartheid?

- I said that was directional as it relates to

what Freeman was arguing about the West,

the annexation of the West Bank, so no.

But in the context of his pursuit

and the hard and the far right, I align with that concern

and that thinking that was expressed very pointedly

by Tom Freeman, so. - Yeah, so, you think

they're potentially on the path

to becoming a apartheid state, - Yeah, I-

- if they continue. - My biggest concern,

my red flag is Bibi Netanyahu,

period, full stop. - Mm-hmm.

- And his opposition to the two-state solution.

How he is navigating his own domestic politics,

as it relates to placating the far right,

thus the annexation concerns,

how he's influencing events

that are now out of our control,

and we're not, you know, like we haven't even focused

much on what's happening in Southern Lebanon,

and issues there and intended and unintended consequences,

the future of Gaza,

the Board of Peace, which is about Trump and Witkoff,

and Jared Kushner getting their piece,

if we can discuss that,

and what happens to the future of the Middle East.

And so, yeah, I've been very critical of him.

And I say that as a guy who visited Bibi,

visited, heard, saw- - Mm-hmm, right after

October seventh? - Right after October seventh,

yeah, because of the relationship I've had

not only the Jewish community here,

but my relationship to the people of Israel,

and so I've long supported the State of Israel.

- Let's talk about tech and AI.

You've said that AI, you're supportive,

You've said that AI, you're supportive,

but it needs guardrails.

What's the one guardrail you think the nation should adapt

right now on AI?

- My legislation SB 53,

the first safety regulation in the United States of America.

I mean, people should focus on the fact we did the first

large language model, frontier model, safety regulations

of AI in the country.

New York backed into our model.

We believe it's a model for the nation,

and it's a model that Trump should adopt immediately.

Took three years to build consensus

around this regulatory framework.

California's led in regulating AI,

and we're going to lead as it relates to the anxieties

and concern about work,

and the future of work in relationship to what AI means,

but also address the issue of truth and trust,

at the same time, so, I signed 18 AI bills

last year. - Yeah.

- We led on the large language model.

We've been leaders as it relates to watermarking

and robocalls, leaders as it relates to deep fakes.

We'll continue to do more in that space,

including social media.

I think it's time to have a deeper conversation we're having

with our legislature this year on age gating,

- Mm-hmm. - 16 and younger,

and more accountability.

And ultimately, this is deeper conversation,

more of a federal one around Section 230,

some issues that are long overdue

in terms of real substantive debate.

But in the absence of federal leadership,

California's leading. - A lot of tech leaders

California's leading. - A lot of tech leaders

talk about the probability of an apocalyptic scenario,

when it comes to AI.

Sometimes they call it "Pdoom."

Some people put it in the double digits.

Do you have a Pdoom?

- Yeah, look, I, it depends who I meet on any given day

- Yeah, look, I, it depends who I meet on any given day

of the week, and I'm interfacing with these guys

all the time, - Mm-hmm.

- on the entire spectrum. - Yeah.

- It tries to- - Sometimes it's 5%,

sometimes it's 20%. - Yeah.

- Like how high does it go

on some days? - Well, people don't know,

but we don't know what we don't know.

but we don't know what we don't know.

But there are the doomers out there.

I mean, that are- - Are you one?

- I'm not a doomer. - Okay.

- I'm not a doomer. - Okay.

- I can't live like that.

I just believe you have to paint an,

I just believe you have to paint an,

you know, we have to manifest a brighter future.

you know, we have to manifest a brighter future.

We're not victims. We're not bystanders.

We can shape the future.

It's decisions, decisions,

not conditions that will determine the fate

and future of AI.

I believe in acceleration and competitive frame,

but I also believe in guardrails

and I also believe in steering the debate,

which we failed to do with social media.

We paid a huge price.

- Hmm. - We're more lonely,

we're more depressed, we're more addicted

than we've ever had.

We have a crisis with young men, crisis with young people

that is real, and we have to own that.

Let's not make the same mistakes with AI.

We are right now in the middle of this debate,

in the center of the universe, - Yeah.

- in California, - Yeah.

- where the energy and dairy, 32, arguably 35

of the top 50 AI companies in the world are located here.

We have a unique responsibility to lead

in terms of not just this conversation,

but lead in terms of regulation that allows us

to outcompete our competitors,

address legitimate national security issues,

but also protect the people that we serve

and to also paint a picture

where people feel they're included

and not alienated, truth, trust, fair and free elections,

competitiveness, war and peace, all of them,

all of them being painted in very bright colors.

Some vivid, some bright, some dark.

And we have a, you know, obligation

in the absence of David Sacks,

in the absence of Donald Trump, in the absence of J.D. Vance

believing that they have a responsibility to regulate.

They don't. They're the "let 'em rip" folks.

And that has to be called out and California has to step in.

- Well, you've known these guys for decades.

- Yeah. - Can you give me

- Yeah. - Can you give me

your one sentence summary on three of these guys?

- (chuckles) One sentence. - So, Sam Altman.

- Innovator, entrepreneur remarkably...

He's a guy

that you look at a mountain, he's a guy I can see,

as, he's standing there, the base of the mountain,

he can see right through it.

- Hmm. - Peter Thiel.

Incredibly next level mind.

Increasingly more nihilistic in terms of his rhetoric.

There's sort of an energy there.

I've known him for years and years and years

back to my county supervisor days,

when he was a constituent.

But next level intellect.

Not to be underestimated in any way, shape, or form.

And he shouldn't be put purely in a political box,

as I know my party often puts him into.

He belongs in many different boxes.

- Elon Musk.

- One of the great disappointments.

One of our, ah,

one of the great innovators of our time.

I brought up Edison before. He's Edison of our time.

It breaks my heart.

I was the first, you know, I was,

got one of the first Teslas off the line.

I've been one of their biggest proponents, supporters.

Was regulation in California that created the conditions

that allowed him to take the risk

to become the multi-billionaire, maybe trillionaire,

that he's become, including Solar City

that he's become, including Solar City

in some of the regulatory frameworks

that launched Elon Musk.

And he launched this space.

Now he's going to space,

and he's now turning his back, not only in the state

that promote him, though he has no problem

getting the R&D tax credits and moving

his world headquarters on R&D here,

and having Grok here,

and most of his talent here, which is also interesting.

But right now, he's allowing,

But right now, he's allowing,

and I think this is Trump, not just Elon Musk,

he's going to allow the greatest on goal in,

I think, one of the most significant on goals

in the next decade is seeding the EV space to China.

They have 70% of the global EV market.

It's about state craft with them. It's about supply chains.

They're flooding the zone all around the globe,

including now right on the border into Canada

where they're gonna have 49,000 cars

getting that tariff down there.

And it's a stack play. It's a national security play.

And I really fear what's gonna happen

to American legacy automobile manufacturers.

Elon was the one accelerating that.

Now he's put the brakes on his own innovation in that space

and now shifted to robotics, humanoids,

including the line here in Fremont,

his largest manufacturing line,

arguably outside of Shanghai the largest in the world.

- My last question for you,

your father, you write in this book,

was a big Shakespeare fan. - Hmm.

- You named your restaurant group

after Falstaff, - Yeah.

- from Henry IV. - Yeah.

- So, what was your dad's, - Yes.

- favorite Shakespeare play and is it different than yours?

- No, I think we all fell in love with Henry IV,

and we, you know, and what I love about Falstaff,

he was the, sort of the great rogue.

He was the comic character.

And there's that wonderful scene at the end

where Prince Howe is becoming king

and his buddy that he was out there,

this rogue friend of his, had a lot of fun with the Prince,

goes up to the throne, the kingdom

and they're sort of, yeah, I'm not painting it well.

And Hal's there, now king,

and here's the lumbering rogue, Falstaff himself,

running up to the palace.

"We've made it. We now running the kingdom."

And the new king, his old friend, the prince, turns around,

he goes to poor Falstaff, says, "I know the not old man."

The weight and responsibility of now being king

sort of put that different mask on

to frame this conversation.

- Hal made the right choice?

- Well, it breaks my heart a little bit

for poor Jack Falstaff.

- Mm. - And so I've always had,

there's an empathy and a connection to him,

plus, he's just one of the great comic characters

in literature, so, that's my Shakespeare for the moment.

And I am getting through, I have four kids,

and they've stopped me from watching "Hamnet."

I'm literally 30 minutes in,

my kids keep stomping in, (interviewer laughs)

and I can't watch the full thing.

But I love the- - Definitely how the director

meant it to be seen. - I don't know.

I like Shakespeare in love.

I have a whole, I'm a romantic guy.

I love "Zeal."

"Love Actually" is my favorite Christmas movie.

- Mm-hmm. - I'm an empath.

- Hmm. - I'm not about

power dominant aggression.

I think the superpowers are empathy,

care, and collaboration.

We can use a little of that in our country right now,

and there's a moment we're all gonna be

able to shift from this resilience mindset to renewal.

We'll be repairers of the breach in the spirit of Isaiah.

We're all looking forward to that moment

as we paint a positive picture of a journey

that we can all go on together,

and we can address all this anxiety and this stress

and chaos that we're experiencing

with Trump and Trumpism today.

- Thank you so much, Governor Newsom.

Great to have you. - Great to be with you.

Thank you.