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>> Bloomberg Money.

>> This is the Bloomberg Money podcast. I'm

Tom Keane with Scarlett Fu. Join us each

week for a smart look at the forces

shaping your financial life on personal

finance, on retirement, and wealth

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Subscribe to the podcast wherever you

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terminal and the Bloomberg business app,

we start strong. This has become hugely

successful for us. different voices from

uh Bloomberg News uh with us this

morning. Isabelle Lean is with us. We're

thrilled that she could uh join. And uh

Lily's with us is as well here. Thank

you so much for joining. But Joe Matthew

uh is with us here as he looks to radio

uh and uh television following on here

with Balance of Power as well. To me,

the arch theme and lessons learned of

this week, but for everyone riveted in

the nation by affordability is going to

be the turnout on the elections plural

to come. Do you have any visibility on

the turnout of the midterms in November?

>> We have conventional wisdom, which is

that the energy is with the Democrats.

The question is, are they running for

something or are they simply running

against Donald Trump? And that's going

to help to animate that turnout as to

what in the world it is that he says at

the last minute here. Because even look

at Texas where you saw Democrats turning

out uh ahead of Republicans in primary

elections. We're going to be in Florida

on Tuesday. That's a little bit less

significant in this particular

conversation. But where's the price of

gas on election day? We're above $4 a

gallon right now. We're at 414 here in

New York. And I checked that today cuz

the president's going to Garden City.

you know, Garden City. It's only 18

miles from here and it bears no

resemblance to this city. Uh, he'll be

surrounded by first responders and he's

not going to be talking about

affordability. He's talking about crime.

>> He's in Garden City. He's resounded by

people that own a BMW and a Mercedes in

the garage. He The Republicans can't win

with that audience, can it?

>> Well, so why is he going there is a big

question today because the affordability

argument has not uh been landing. He

calls it a Democratic hoax. You're

looking at the data, Tom. You know

better. Well, we're looking at the data

and the data showed that retail sales

for the month of July fell unexpectedly.

Lily Meyer, you cover specialty

retailers for Bloomberg News and you

cover a lot of the big um aspirational

brands.

Does what you see in this retail sales

report mesh with what you've been

reporting on when it comes to these

specific companies? Yeah, so we reported

just a few weeks ago that Under Arour

saw softness and trends and um we've

been seeing, you know, kind of a mixed

consumer picture over the last few

months. Many of the retailers still are

yet to report. So, it'll be really

interesting to hear if they say a

similar thing and are seeing softness.

But yes, Under Armour said they were

seeing softer demand. So, I'm curious to

see what other retailers will say and if

they echo that.

>> Absolutely. And I I'm wondering as well

as we see this K-shaped economy, you

know, the divide growing ever wider.

You've also been reporting on how even

when it comes to people's hobbies, those

that can afford it are splurging big

time. The running culture, for instance,

has gone way upscale. Yeah, we wrote a

story about, you know, high-end running

spending. So, you know, instead of

shopping at places that are a little bit

more affordable, like your Nikes, your

Adidas, shoppers are buying $350 running

shorts. Um,

>> okay. The world's different. When you

were at Bates College, it was a road

trip of 25 miles to go to Freeport,

Maine to go to LLBAN drunk at 2 am in

the morning. Don't tell me you've never

done that. 24 hours.

>> Okay. We It's like 24 miles, you know,

over you go shopping, power shopping,

2:00 a.m. in the morning. That retail

day is gone, isn't it? Everybody wants

to go fancy now.

>> Yeah. It's a totally different retail

scene. And I think running is a really

good example. You know, people are

spending wild amounts of money to sweat

in these items. And, you know, a $450

running vest or a $150 t-shirt that has

holes in it. So, people want items.

Yeah. When Joe and I knew it was a $14

shirt from LSU, from Phile and and a and

a Burton I record from LLB.

>> Exactly.

>> Um Isabelle, let me bring you into this

conversation because what you've been

writing about is as folks are spending

$350 on Nike mesh shorts or perhaps

higher brands. Um you have a lot of

wealth advisers and influencers using

social media to really talk up how the

wealthy, the rich, uh are saving a lot

of money on taxes. And that's something

that ordinary people are basically

eating up. Ordinary people maybe because

they want to buy $100 Lululemon pants

when they go to their yoga classes. They

want more money in their pocket. So tax

alpha, that's a strategy used for

usually reserved for the ultra high net

worth and hedge funds. Basically, think

of tax alpha as maximizing your after

tax returns, not your pre-taxes. If

someone tells me they're making $500,000

a year, I'm like, but how much of that?

>> Am I singing you with the steam coming

out of my ears? We're managing money to

make losses.

>> That's what some people do. So now these

strategies are being marketed to retail

investors in Tik Tok, in YouTube, and on

Instagram. And retail investors are

eating this up. Some firms are lowering

as much as 1,000 as little as $1,000.

But you have some people saying that

it's not worth it.

>> Put the put the Bloomberg money cork in

my mouth.

>> I know. Well, a lot because you do

manufacture losses so that you will have

more take-home pay. But you know this

whole strategy ties people ever closer

to their wealth advisors because these

are not easy strategies. These are

complicated strategies.

>> They're very complex strategies. Some

include shorting stocks. Some include

borrowing money because you have to

again manufacture the losses. And this

is a story done by my great colleagues

Charlie Wells and Denita Teova. And we

talked to some people and some of them

are really into it but some are like no

it's not worth it if you don't have a

million dollars at the very least. You

know, I come back to the idea that it

really is about inflation for, you know,

whether you're at the top of the income

spectrum or the bottom of the income

spectrum. And Joe, we had data this week

that showed inflation slowed, but it's

still above 3%. We know cost of living

is top of mind for voters. I'm not sure

where it ranks for the president, who's

obviously trying to end the war in Iran

and wants a perpetrator for what's going

on with the reflecting pool. Is it a

priority for the rest of the Republican

party?

>> It's a huge priority. Yeah. We're going

to talk to Mike Flood later on. Main

Street Caucus, Nebraska. It's the only

thing he's worried about. He's hoping

I'll ask him about the housing bill that

they got passed. The president refused

to sign. There's a massive disconnect

here as the president suggests that

affordability is a Democratic hoax and

has previously said that they won on

affordability. The part I don't get is

after that tape this week, we didn't

hear anything from the president. There

was no victory lap. There wasn't even a

statement from a boring statement from

the communications office. So, you

almost get the sense the White House has

stopped caring about it.

>> I've got to ask because it's such news

front and center and that is the war in

the Eastern Mediterranean. Joe, you and

uh Kaylee are just hardwired into this.

Should we expect news this weekend?

>> No.

>> I look I I'm I am getting a little uh

bored of the let's wake up Monday and

see if we're back at war routine.

There's a reluctance to go along into

the weekend because you're asking me

about this, Tom, but the president says

we're easing back. We're lowkeying it

and this looks like it's going to be a

long-term economic strangle as opposed

to a kinetic military.

>> Can we rip up the script? We get lucky

here.

>> Yeah, please.

>> Okay. Joe Matthew, of course,

foundational with David Budnoy in

Boston. The Fenway Sports Group of

Boston announces they're unloading

Liverpool in some form. Will that money

go directly to save the middle relief of

the Boston Red Sox?

>> Well, I'm I'm sure that you would like

to see that.

>> I would like to see that.

>> I'm not sure David Brody would have done

that with the money, though. Can't you

do something better in Massachusetts

with the bottom of the K?

>> We'll have to see it. It's a sale. Bezos

picks up a hunk of British soccer.

>> Yeah, Bezos adds another brand new.

>> Where's John Pharaoh to make me smarter?

I have no idea what I'm talking about

here.

>> You know what a hot dog cost at Fenway

Park right now?

>> I don't know.

>> $6.50.

>> What's a hot dog cost at Costco, Lily?

>> It's a good question.

>> It's like a dollar.50.

They've never changed it. That's true.

>> There we go. This has been wonderful.

Thank you, Joe Matthew, of course, Lily

Meyer as well. Isabelle Lee also writing

up a important article on Tik Tok.

Coming up, an important conversation.

Mike Wilson. You know him for his acuity

at Morgan Stanley. Much more. Mike

Wilson here on the path to the proper

retirement.

>> It's not just Tik Tok. It's also

Instagram. It's also YouTube.

>> Did you ever go from Bates to Freeport,

Ma? You did. I did.

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bloomer money from New York City Scarlet

Fu and Tom thank you so much for being

uh with us uh today I mean this is what

it's about folks we get somebody in

really really quite good scarlet and

they write a sevenpage really really

detailed paper but what's it mean about

my non-retirement What does it mean for

the stocks that you have in your

portfolio? Forget the fixed income.

>> The Bitcoin in my portfolio. Bitcoin?

No, there's none in my fractional

Bitcoin. I'm in triple leveraged all

cash. That's a different story. We are

honored to bring you Mike Wilson, pride

of University of Michigan, chief US

equity strategist and investment officer

at a small shop, Morgan Stanley, uh this

morning. How you doing? How's your year

been?

>> Doing great. Been it's a bull market.

You know, summer's been pretty good to

me. And uh

>> do you feel like you do you feel like

the market you've gotten the market

right? Have you underestimated its

durability?

>> Uh no I think we probably were the first

ones to talk about this earnings

recovery and even we underestimate the

strength of it. So yes we did

underestimate the power of it but

directionally I think we were right on

that. I think where we've been surprised

is probably the durability of the AI

capex and just just how much that has

accelerated and how much quite frankly

how much the market has been willing to

absorb right on the issuance credit well

the reason you've been good at that is

Jim Karen it's got nothing to do with

the equity side of the shot bring up the

chart right now this is the emotion many

of you have forgotten this stocks you

can go down in stocks it's a shock now

this chart ends in 2022 but there's XPX

it's wonderful great wonderful co and

all that and then there's a big roll

over in 202122

where are you brave enough to catch the

falling knife when the market rolls over

like that and my personal finance is

troubled how do I get back into the

market how at the margin do you buy when

you see the sweat of that chart well the

really challenging thing of 2022 as you

know for retirees was that stocks and

bonds went down for the first time in

really our lifetime and that so there

was no hedge So even though the decline

in equities wasn't as severe as it was

in ' 08 or in ' 01 or ' 02, your 6040

portfolio was down the same. So that was

a change and that I think that was one

of the things that made investors

apprehensive to step in. It was like,

"Holy smokes, I'm getting hit on both my

defensive stuff and my offensive part of

my portfolio." So I think people froze

up. Now our job is to remind people that

there's value at some point. And I would

say we navigated the 2021 top extremely

well and the 22 downturn. We probably

overstayed our welcome a bit in 23 and

got back on board in 24 under the under

under the story that we're telling now.

But like I mean as an in as a as a

person who has their money in the market

for retirement or long-term investor,

>> you really should avoid being shaken out

on both the top and the bottom. So in

other words, chasing stocks is as

damaging as selling stocks at the bottom

in my view. So that's why we like dollar

cost averaging. That's why we do like

still like diversified portfolios. 22 is

a challenge on that. It ended up working

out for folks who stayed fully invested.

>> And for those who stay fully invested,

they their faith in equities has been

restored. Maybe for bonds, not as much

given that the performance has not been

as great. Is there a way to get all your

defense of your bond like exposure

within equities? I've heard some people

talk about the idea of um swearing off

fixed income completely and perhaps

owning insurance companies as proxies

for bonds. You get the price

appreciation, you get the dividend. It's

kind of like a win-win.

>> Yeah. Well, what I would say is that

these asset classes are now more closely

correlated. So, they're just not going

to offer that natural diversification

benefit that they have historically. So,

that means you need to do other things.

So, there are other types of

investments. You were mentioning earlier

like gold or or maybe even Bitcoin or

some of these things that can defend

against inflation. So, we we we've been

a very big advocate of gold not so much

as a yielding instrument, but as a

defensive asset. That doesn't mean you

abandon fixed income, but it does mean

you reduce your duration. So there are

things you can do within your fixed

income portfolio to make it more

valuable. It still provides some

diversification benefit without taking

too much risk on on the duration side.

>> So when you talk about gold, gold was

acting like a meme stock at the

beginning of this year. I mean was that

just kind of a unique one-off period or

can we return to things like that?

>> Well, I would say that gold has been in

a bull market for 25 years. I mean

people kind of woke up to this idea more

recently at the beginning of the year

and I this probably is a good place to

kind of you know kind of gravitate to

for the rest of the discussion for this

year I would say we've had basically one

big commodity rotation so coming into

this year you have to remember at the

end of last year the Fed started

printing money again right with this

reserve management program and that led

directly to gold and silver stocks

taking off then we went into rare earth

and metal stocks then energy stocks and

then semiconductors now what do all

those have in they're all commodities.

Okay. So, it's kind of interesting to me

that that's what's been going on and and

that may be exactly what people are

doing. They're looking for things that

are not stocks but commodity like to

offset, you know, the the risk they have

in their portfolio with equity like

risk.

>> In Michigan, there's Steven Ross and

there is this idea of arbitrage pricing

theory. I want you to bring it over to

somebody's retirement where we talk

about factor-based investing. discuss

momentum and the other factors there

that le lead to successful personal

finance.

>> Yeah. Well, first of all, um we have to

understand that uh people, you know, the

retail investor gets a bad rap. The

retail investor, I think, has navigated

the last 15 years extremely well. This

is a good lead into your question, which

is in the in the GFC when the Fed

started printing money the first time,

all the smart people were like, "Oh,

this is a disaster. It's going to be

inflationary." And what did the retail

person do? They bought bonds cuz like we

don't see inflation. And by the way,

this is just filling in holes. It's a

different type of QE. Then when COVID

happened, they sold their bonds and they

bought stocks because they realized this

actually this kind of QE where you

actually print money and send checks out

to people is extremely inflationary. So

I would say the the average retail

person has essentially diversifi has

done a really good job of diversifying

their portfolio away from things that

are le you know anti-fragile to

inflation. And so that's why we've been

doing the same thing in our

recommendations. You know, whether it's

gold, whether it's alternative

investments, things that can provide

balance to the portfolio without having

pure equity like risk.

>> You talked a little bit about how when

you look for some defensive qualities,

perhaps you go into gold for instance or

look at other alternatives. Is that how

you def, you know, diversify your

portfolio? Are you going into gold? What

do you do to make sure that you don't

you you're not overly loaded up on

equities?

>> Yeah. Well, I'm probably not a great

example. I'm I'm a you know I'm much

more tactical than I would recommend

most individual investors be. Like I'll

trade in and out. I'll even short things

as my defensive hedge. But that's not

practical for most people. Okay. So I

would recommend that we recommend for

most retail investors or even

institutional investors endowments is

you have to have a plan. Okay. And then

what people don't do a good job of is

rebalancing. So what I worry not worry

about so much but I think what I see out

there right now is a lot of unbalanced

portfolios. Not just in equities, but in

certain equities. Okay. And that's

>> too tilted towards something.

>> Yeah. There's just you got too much

exposure to single assets because nobody

wants to pay taxes.

>> And I hear this all the time.

>> What do you say to the people that go,

"I'm afraid of Mike Wilson's world. I'm

loaded to the boat in cash. Should they

be looking at two and threeear Jim Karen

like money?"

>> Well, look, I mean, everybody should

have some cash. And and you're getting

paid for your cash now. biggest change

since the since really covid quite

frankly is that you're getting a a

positive real return now on your fixed

income. So I'm not as bearish on fixed

income nearly as we were 10 years ago. I

mean, particularly for things that are

3, four years in, you're getting a real

return that's quite respectable. Now,

everybody has their own like everybody

has their own risk tolerance. Okay? Some

people like to hold 30% cash. Some

people like to hold 5% cash, whatever

that number is. But, but you're getting

paid for it now. So, cash is a good

asset. Mid-tier, you know, sort of

duration bonds is a good asset.

Infrastructure type bonds is a good

defensive asset. Certain equities are a

good defensive asset, whether it be

utilities or maybe staples and things

like that. So there are many things you

can do from a stylistic standpoint that

you can protect yourself. Once again,

what I think people have loaded up on

now is, you know, large cap grow stocks

and those have been great and that's why

they want to continue to own those. But

just understand it, you're unbalanced.

Okay? So you better make sure you're

going to be right for the next three,

four, five years.

>> This week, one of our stories that we

feature is the American dream of owning

a home. It is alive. at least in Grand

Rapids, Michigan. Almost half of all new

homeowners in Kent County are younger

than 35 because the area is a high

concentration of affordable homes and

plentiful job opportunities. Paulina

Cero has been following the story and

she joins us now. So, why is Grand

Rapids kind of bucking this trend, the

national trend of first-time home

ownership being out of reach for so many

young people? Yeah, I think what's

really unique about Kent County,

Michigan, is that there's a relatively

favorable ratio between home prices and

income. So nearly half of its home

owners in 2025 were 35 years or younger.

And that's pretty amazing if you

consider that the average first-time

home buyer today was is 40 years old

across the US. And that's the oldest in

data going back to 1981. So it helps

that Grand Rapids, you know, has a

really diversified economy. its

population has been growing and there's

a lot of opportunities for young workers

uh who are earning enough to to buy a

home. Um you know while across the US I

would say you know workers under 35 the

price of a home is 3.6 times their

income but it's much and Grand Rapids

it's much lower than that.

>> Okay it's much lower than that but you

wonder how it's going to stay that way

because affordability is already

eroding. You look at the prices uh at

Grand Rapids and it's up a third in five

years. So, could you make the argument

that Grand Rapids is just a few years

behind everyone else, every other city?

>> Yeah, I it's there's definitely a lot of

pressure on the market. We've seen

prices go up about 34% in 5 years as you

mentioned and inventory is still roughly

30% below prepandemic levels and this is

an issue we're dealing with across the

US. uh housing supply shortage and

actually um what we're seeing in Grand

Rapids is they're building homes at a

slower pace at 5.3% compared to 7%

national.

>> What are people doing in Grand Rapids? I

mean what they you know I I think of

like 1963 Froot Loops Froot Loops were

pretty much like

>> you know Kelloggs and all that

>> in Grand Rapids and Battle Creek and and

and all that. What are they doing in

Grand Rapids in this boom?

We've seen that the wages have, you

know, kept up. It's like 13% higher than

the rest of the state. So, I think that,

you know, being able to keep home prices

relatively low while incomes are growing

and there's a relatively young

population has helped people be able to

afford buying homes. It's not just about

having cheap homes. It's having the

economic opportunities to afford them as

well.

>> All right, Paulina Coacher, thank you so

much. She's a member of our Bloomberg

Money Team covering stories that affect

your money. Oh, thank you. It's great.

Right now, this is important. Kristen

Bitterly holds court full-time at the

cityroup shop in wealth management and

had a global wealth at work. It really

really focused on retirement. I look at

Orisa 74 as a failure. There's a huge

percentage of America that's not getting

retirement done. What's the biggest

thing they could do to solve that other

than just save more money?

>> Well, I would say there's two things.

One, we have to realize that we're

living longer. So when you look at um

average life expectancy it is

increasing. The population above 80 is

expected to triple by 2030 and the

population above 65 is expected to

double. So people are living longer

which means your money has to work for

you longer. So the second kind of I I

would say error that a lot of people

make is not investing early on. So

saving, we do see savings rates that

they've increased, but if you're not

investing that money, and I heard Mike

Wilson earlier today talk about the fact

that yes, there is an attractive yield

on cash and short duration fixed income,

but when you're thinking about what is

my life expectancy, how long does that

money have to work for me? If I don't

invest, I'm going to be behind. And it's

not just investing, it's also taking

advantage of tax efficient vehicles and

fee efficient vehicles. Like people

think investing means just putting it

into an account or putting into your

401k and kind of forgetting about

>> absolutely. So I would say the first

thing about being too overweight cash,

we need to make sure that we're putting

that to work. And whether that right

amount in cash is 10% 15%, we've seen

those slightly elevated. It shouldn't be

30%. But you're absolutely right. Taking

advantage of any type of tax advantaged

account or tax deferred account. Making

sure that your wealth is structured in

the right way is also critically

important. And then also there's there's

more tax efficient investments. So if

you're invested in fixed income and

you're a US investor, look to the MUN

market. Look to some of these areas

where your after tax and after fee

returns are going to be more profitable

for you. There are some people who take

this to the extreme, right? There's the

fire movement of uh financial

independence, retire early, people who

save.

>> I'm on that movement. I'm working it

hard.

>> I think you're a little bit you and I

are passer prime when it comes to the

fire

>> caskets right surveillance caskets right

over here. Yes, that's right. I I mean,

the idea is to be able to retire in your

30s, 40s, and 50s and live your best

life, but I'm sure there's traps that

people fall into when they pursue fire

at all costs.

>> Yeah. I would also say though, the

investors that we work with and the

clients we work with, they are in

specialized industries. So, we work with

lawyers, we work with professional

services, asset managers, preIPO,

postIPO companies. A lot of our clients,

they like to work like this is part of

like they enjoy their profession.

they're ambitious and so what we see is

actually something different. They want

to work longer and even in retirement um

there's a great organization that's

called Luster where it's founded by very

successful women and what they do is

they say like this is actually like I'm

going to live my best life in

retirement. I'm not fading into the

background. I'm not giving up on my

intellect and professional ambitions. I

may do something different my time but

I'm still very active and very busy.

What I see day after day, this is a

beautiful quote from Cityroup and

Kristen uh bit. Let's bring it up. And

it's about the inertial force that's out

there in our bad behavior. I'm as guilty

of this as anyone. Leaving excess

capital idling cash, hoarding cash far

beyond the threshold seriously penalizes

long-term growth. Inflation, it silently

erodess the purchasing power of

uninvested capital. Why do we do this?

Start with the I mean, you're expert at

this. Why do what's the why of why we

sit with cash up to our eyeballs.

>> First thing is we don't teach people to

invest. So when you think of our

education in the US um yeah you may be a

business major and maybe you have some

type of coursework in in college but um

many people grow they they could go to

the best universities in the world and

not actually understand financial

planning, estate planning and how to

invest. So part of it is like we are not

educated to do that. Um, loss aversion

is also a very very powerful uristic

bias where people tend to think that

it's safe, cash feels safe. Um, and the

last thing that I would say is people

are busy.

>> The inertia part is actually very real.

So Mike talked about this that you're

kind of you could have the inappropriate

allocation because you don't understand

the outsiz kind of positions in your

portfolio. You have to have a more

proactive approach.

>> But to the chart we showed with Mike,

which we could also show with Kristen.

Is there issue here, Scarlet? we're

addicted to a bull market where we don't

have to think,

>> right?

>> To me, that's a lot of it.

>> I don't There's the sweat with a VIX of

14. The sweat's not out there.

>> So, I guess the question is, how do you

go de-risking your portfolio? Mike's

talked about, you know, having too much

concentration in the growthy parts of

the market. And it's okay to actually

take some profit and, you know, put it

aside. That's not a bad thing.

>> Sometimes, hey, Uncle Sam, even though

everyone's scared to death of doing it,

how do you go about de-risking your

portfolio day in and day out? Because

it's something people don't want to do.

they they're comfortable with seeing

that number grow.

>> Yeah. So this inertia concept, it's

actually on two different two different

fronts. It's one on being too overweight

cash. So that's then an element of how

do I actually put capital to work. And I

think that's easier actually if you're

too overweight cash. The idea that you

can le in, you can use dollar cost

averaging. I think that's probably an

easier psychological component. On the

the front of okay, I need to rebalance

and potentially that does have tax

impacts. One of the things that I would

say is if tax is the major deterrent

that should not be the major deterrent.

However, there are hedging strategies.

There are a number of different

strategies that you can employ where you

take off some of the downside risk

without triggering a taxable event. So,

I would encourage people who have really

large embedded gains to speak to their

adviser about that.

>> And now we go over Futread. Kristen

bitterly. One of the gimmicks is option

writing. I bring in an income to get an

enhanced income and I give up some of

the future capital gain. Is it a sound

strategy?

>> Option overwriting. Absolutely. Look, I

grew up in derivatives, so I probably

have a bias in the options market. I

think options are a double-edged sword.

When you use them for leverage, when you

don't understand what your max downside,

max upside is, and the risk return

profile, clearly some people can get on

the wrong side of that trade. If you are

long in equity position and you think

it's going to be relatively sideways,

you don't want to sell out of it because

you like the company and you're finding

ways of a more taxefficient augmented

yield by selling listed options or

covered calls against it. That can be a

way to enhance your income, stay in the

stock, not trigger a taxable gain. You

mentioned how people are not educated on

investing. Are we also not educated on

debt and the role that debt plays?

Because you've pointed out that the way

people look at debt is they're either

scared to death of it or they have too

much in it. They're they're they are

carrying high interest personal loans

and there's never any in between.

>> It's so interesting because I think this

is a very cultural component as to how

you were raised that what you see is

there are many people who were taught

growing up like debt is bad

>> that any type of debt is bad. Clearly

there are some types of debt that are

really high interest bearing debt that

are your credit card for example. The

idea that you're very disciplined about

that because it's a very high interest

rate. However, we were just talking

about mortgages earlier. If you're

someone who locked in a 30-year fixed

mortgage at maybe a 3% 2% level, that is

probably one of the that's kind of the

trade of the century if you think about

it in terms of very cheap financing that

is also there's a tax efficient element

to it. That is intelligent leverage,

intelligent debt that helps you actually

achieve your goals.

>> Thank you so much for coming in today.

>> Thanks for having me.

>> Do it again soon like before the year

end. Kristen Biddley, thank you so much.

City wealth had a global wealth at uh

work. I noticed the 30-year mortgage

6.77%.

>> You keep rolling it higher to 7%.

>> Well, I'm wondering the world stops at

7%, but there it is. I mean, it's it's a

it's a big statistic. What fun last

night, Field of Dreams, Netflix at the

ball, out of the park, over the

cornfield. Uh, last night we thought

we'd do a baseball moment for you.

Coming up, Scarlet has a killer book.

It's Bloomberg Money. Good afternoon. I

like how you stress the word killer cuz

that's going to come up.

>> That was magic. I did.

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>> Remember the movie Field of Dreams? The

part about Field of Dreams, Shoulless

Joe Jackson. Spectacular. It was one of

the rarest things where the movie was

better than the book.

>> Kevin Coer, starring Kevin Coer, 1989.

Um, last night there was a Field of

Dreams game and that it took place in

Iowa.

>> I was crying. Full disclosure, tears,

the whole thing.

>> Twins versus Phillies on Netflix. Uh,

this was it had been a couple of years

since the last one, but both teams wore

throwback uniforms, which I love.

>> Yeah. And the corn was not kneeh high by

the 4th of July. It was spectacular. The

Phillies and Twins delivered, Major

League Baseball delivered, and and all

that. We thought we'd just take a look

at this. Of course, the iconic movie,

the Hall of Famers coming out, Mike

Schmidt, uh, there from the Phillies.

>> You watched until the very end.

>> No, I did not watch the whole thing cuz

I have to get up and do a date, you

know, the early morning gig. But I

>> You notice of one Roger Clemens there.

>> Roger Clemens at the end was playing

catch with his son who's on the twins.

You know, the whole thing was just a

huge huge success to say at least. We

wanted over to books. Here's the book

for those younger who are like, "Field

of Dreams, I don't get it. It's Fossil

TV." Sholess Joe Consella did it and I'm

sorry this was the first of the books WP

Consella Sholess Joe it's different than

the movie the movie is better than the

book but the book is a right of passage

for anybody that wants to understand the

20th century in America we have a

producer from New Zealand grew up on a

sheep farm doesn't get it

>> doesn't understand

>> totally doesn't understand Field of

Dreams

>> you know the movie has Kevin Cer has Ray

Leotaa a sleepless Joe

>> killed it Ray Leota

>> Bert Lancaster I think his last movie

just to watch. Bert Lancaster up in

Minnesota as a doctor's worth. It tell

us about the Bronx is burning.

>> Well, my book is also about baseball,

but it's the opposite of gauy and feel

good. It's gritty and chaotic. It's

about the 1977 New York Yankees when

Billy Martin was feuding with George

Steinbrer. Reggie Jackson was

dominating. And the title refers to what

Howard Costell said on air after a fire

broke out in a school near Yankee

Stadium. There it is, ladies and

gentlemen. The Bronx is burning.

Remember in 1977, summer of uh Son of

Sam was on the loose. Yeah.

>> You had uh the blackout, the looting

that happened across New York City. Um

Ed Cotch versus Mario Cuomo fighting for

the mayoral.

>> Talk to the malaise and of course in New

York City was front and center. And you

think of uh Mayor Giuliani and those

following that pulled us out of it. But

your book is brilliant of attention

there from another time away from the

magic and nostalgia feel.

>> It's gritty. It's New York. It's

history. It's baseball. It's all that

and it's um my must readad. All right,

so let's talk about sports because we're

going to stay on this theme. Weave it

into personal finance.

>> Yeah, my people briefed me. We don't

talk to each other before the show and

my people briefed what they learned from

Scarlet's people. This is upsetting.

>> It is upsetting and this is a story that

Bloomberg News wrote this week on our

money platform. It's centered on how

sports betting is entering wealth

management plans, financial planning for

genzers. Saung uh joins us now to

discuss. So the idea here is that

certain members of the Gen Z cohort see

sports betting as a legitimate

alternative to investing or see it as a

form of investing.

>> Yes, exactly. So one in four Gen Z

investors actually consider sports

betting as part of their deliberate

ongoing component of their long-term

financial plans. And I think this really

is related to how fast sports betting

industry has grown and along with it

it's the prediction markets um rapid

expansion where companies kind of brand

themselves as investing platforms and

this is changing how Gen Z and younger

Americans are thinking about wealth

building and financial planning. Now

some of the people who do this say that

they approach sports betting with kind

of um the dispassionate eye that they

would look at investing which I find

really fascinating. like they say they

don't get let emotion get caught up in

any of this.

>> Yeah, that's what they say. And um we

talked to some long-term sports

betterers actually and they said they've

gotten increasingly analytical in their

approaches. They would do research on

sports teams and then they would like

maybe section off a part of their money

to just put in sports betting. One

person actually won some 2500 this year

and was able to fund their entire

vacation to a batch. Okay, but I want to

I just went to, you know, I went to AI

and all that to look at this. How many

people make money at Kelshi? How many

people make money at FanDuel on the left

field wall out at Field of Dreams last

night?

>> That's a really good question. It's

actually over the long term consistent

uh profiters off these platforms are the

top maybe one or two 5%.

>> Okay, so let's be charitable. It's 5%.

You're telling me 95% of people lose

money and we're calling it a financial

plan of our personal finance

>> over the long term. Yes, they are not

profitable 95%. But I think it really is

has to do with

>> What are you laughing at?

>> For a certain I'm the fossil here.

>> For a certain cohort, they're thinking,

you know what, I'm going to be the one

that beats the odds and you know, you

got to go big.

>> Come on. Last night, I mean, what' you

think? Did you watch Field of Dreams

last night? the baseball game.

>> Chilling me. It's like it's like the

Netflix ratings will be huge. The Hall

of Famers are coming out of the

cornfield. Sholess Joe came out of

>> and there's a FanDuel sign on the left

field sign. I mean, that's what we It's

your fault.

>> It's a dose of 2026 on your field of

dreams, Tom.

>> Can't be helped.

>> We'll have to see.

>> All right. Well, so Jack, thank you so

much.

>> I'm too upset to talk. You

>> really really appreciate it. It's it's

fascinating this idea because we talk

about the financial nihilism among

younger people. This is kind of a an

offshoot of that.

>> I strongly agree.

>> A blueber money.

>> Why are you crying?

>> Why are you crying?

>> They're going to college. I'm so sad.

It's just terrible. Here's the door.

What's your hurry? Joining us now, Lisa

Mater. Are you going to cry when she

goes to college?

>> I know. I have like two weeks. I'm I'm

at my whip then. It's going to be

difficult.

>> But one thing I don't have to worry

about and this is what a lot of parents

are going to be spending their money on

this weekend is Southern Sarity Rush.

Tom, I know you're familiar with bid

day. It is huge down there. Okay. So,

this is for the past week, girls have

gone to school early. These are all

girls who want to go to these southern

schools. Okay. And they've been on

Instagram and Tik Tok and all the things

picking out which organization they want

to go to. And so, they've been going

through the interview process. They've

been going to the events. They've been

wearing the dresses, the makeup just to

make sure that they get into the

sorarity of their choice. And this

weekend, they're going to find out if

they do or not. But the the money behind

this is because there are parents out

there who are paying, get this, sarity

rush consultants

>> in order for their kids to get into the

sarity.

>> How do they consult with them? They're

they're not like they're not outreaches

from the organizations themselves.

They're kind of

>> these are like some of them are women

who did pledge and so they're giving

advice. So, they're charging these

parents this much to get the inside

scoop. Anywhere from $3,000 to $12,000

to go over to go over their resumes, to

get their head shot done, to go through

their social media feed, to make sure

they talk correctly, wear the right

things, say the right thing.

>> Can I interrupt? This is a girl talk.

Okay. 10:25 street Boulder, the Tridell

House. The way you got ready to rush is

you got a six-ack of 32 course beer. Or

if you really The rich girls had a

quarter keg out front, of course.

That's how you do it. But that's not how

it's not anymore.

>> Good morning to Tridels nationwide.

>> Trident, but it's a huge and what what's

make this store bigger is because it's

finally becoming big in the Northeast,

in the Midwest, in the West where it

wasn't popular before. So now you have

all these outsiders coming into this

little community.

>> Does any I mean at Cornell, did they do

this?

>> I mean, I don't know about sority rush

consultants. I don't know about the

amount of money that people are

spending, but that's you know, when I

went to school, that was ancient

history. Well, I I to me the the number

one thing here is a dad. Is anybody

going to school? Is anybody taking less?

>> Wait, wait. But this is why this is

happening before the semester begins.

Lisa made that clear. People are going

to school.

>> Oh, what? They end the first day of

school.

>> Yes. Yes. And then they have to pay the

dues after they pay the consultant. So,

we haven't even The dues can be anywhere

from 5,000 a semester to 10,000 a

semester depending on if you want the

housing and the room in board in the

middle.

>> Incredible. This was a story on the

Bloomberg terminal, by the way.

>> It was a story in the Bloomberg. Yes,

you have to check it out. was

fascinating going through it. I'm

telling you,

>> there's a lot on social media about this

as well.

>> There is a ton of it, but thankfully,

yes, my daughter's not involved in

these.

>> Okay. Well, let's let's get back to the

calendar events of what's coming up next

week because we've been talking about

the consumer the state of the consumer

retail sales numbers came out today,

which were disappointing. We get more of

an inside read on retail companies,

right?

>> Yes. A lot of retail retail companies.

So, let's go through it. We'll start

with um on Tuesday, you have Home Depot.

That's a big one, right? Then you get to

Wednesday, Estee Lauder, Target, Lowe's,

TJX, and then we end off on Thursday

with Walmart and raw stores, too. So, a

big week for retail earnings next week.

>> This is the Bloomberg Money podcast,

bringing you a smart look at the forces

shaping your financial life. I'm Tom

Keane with Scarlet Fu. You can watch the

show live on Bloomberg TV every Friday

at noon Wall Street time. Subscribe to

the podcast on Apple, Spotify, or

wherever you listen. And as always on

the Bloomberg terminal and the Bloomberg

Business App.

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