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>> Joining us now is Republican Senator Ted

Cruz of Texas. He is the chair of the

Senate Committee on Commerce, Science,

and Transportation, and also author of

the new book, Going Further: The

Incomparable Clarence Thomas. Senator

Cruz, welcome back to Bloomberg TV and

Radio. And we are excited to discuss

your book with you, but could I first

ask your reaction to what we heard from

Premier Ford? Canada clearly does not

feel like it wants to accept a bad deal

from the United States. And yet the US

uh still seems like it's ready and

willing to wage this trade war. Is this

exactly what the United States doesn't

need right now is another trade war?

Higher tariffs and potentially higher

prices.

>> Look, I I think we'll get this resolved.

I I was encouraged listening to the

premier say at the end there, let's get

let's make a deal. Let's make a deal. Uh

listen, do Donald Trump has has

demonstrated that the threat of tariffs

is an incredible incentive to bring our

trading partners to the table to ha to

incentivize them to open up their

markets to lower their own tariffs to

remove non-tariff barriers. I I I think

that is a very positive thing. There are

two camps within the Trump

administration. There's one camp that

wants the threat of tariffs to be used

in that direction to lower tariffs, to

expand trade. I'm emphatically in that

camp. There is a second camp in the

administration that just wants high

tariffs in perpetuity. I I think that

camp is misguided. So, what I'm hopeful

is the resolution here will be uh that

that Canada will come to the table and

we'll end up with more trade with

Canada, our farmers exporting more beef,

more more corn, more soybeans, more

American goods, more American booze, all

of that I'd like to see happen. And I

think this is part of the back and forth

hopefully to get to that point.

>> Well, that's a really interesting

answer, Senator, and we really

appreciate you listening to the

interview uh before you joined us today.

Clearly you did because look at the

options sometimes are limited. If you're

not buying pot ash from Canada, your

option is to go buy it from Russia. So a

deal it seems might help ranchers in

Texas just as much as farmers in the

Midwest.

>> Well, and and Canada is an enormous

energy producer. You look at at Calgary

and Alberta, they have massive oil and

gas reserves. Uh their their oil and gas

producers work very closely with Texas

refineries. So, so all of that our our

economies are interconnected and and my

hope is that the end result of all of

this back and forth is we end up with an

agreement that has more trade all

around. If that's the case, that's good

for Texas and it's good for Americans.

>> Yeah.

>> Senator, I'd like to ask you about

whether uh another question is good for

Americans, and that's data center

development. This is a hot issue across

the country, but especially so in Texas,

where both now uh the man running to be

your colleague in the Senate, Ken

Paxton, and Governor Abbott, seem to

have turned against data centers. Is

that the only way to win in your state

or across the country in this midterm

cycle? Be anti-data center?

>> Well, listen, I think it is critical

that that America win the race for AI.

But I also think the concerns being

raised about data centers are real and

reasonable and they need to be addressed

and they need to be addressed headon. It

it's worth noting that that this anti

anti-data center movement is not

entirely organic that that China is

putting real money into funding this

movement. You've got this guy Neville

Roy Singum who is a Marxist. He's a

communist American billionaire who lives

in China who is funding much of this.

But a and and from China's perspective,

they want us to never build another data

center and basically seed all of AI to

them. That would be a bad outcome.

>> So is now real concern.

>> Is Governor Abbott falling for Chinese

propaganda?

>> No, because if you look at what they're

saying, I agree with what they're saying

that the concerns the voters have are

twofold on data centers. Number one,

water. Number two, power. Water is a

very real concern. Here's the good news.

Virtually all new data centers being

built use what's called closed loop

cooling which means they use the same

water and just circulate it over and

over and over again. So their water

consumption is very very low. I agree

with Governor Abbott who's putting rules

in place that say if you're going to

build a data center you have to minimize

your water consumption so you don't

consume too much of the water from the

community. That makes sense.

>> Number two

voters are understandably concerned

about Electricity prices. Electricity

prices have risen 30% since 2021 and a

lot of people are struggling to make

ends meet. I agree with what Governor

Abbott has said, which is no new data

center will be built in Texas unless the

impact of that data center is zero is

absolutely not one penny added to

anyone's electricity bills. I think that

makes sense. And I'll tell you, I'm

urging the companies that are building

these data centers, go further than

that. make the benefits absolutely clear

and indisputable. I'm urging them, send

checks to the residents of the

community. Send them a h 100red bucks a

month. Send them 500 bucks a month. Send

them a,000 bucks a month. Or even

better, say if we build a data center in

your community for the rest of your

life, your electricity bill is free. We

will pay your electricity bill. That's

how you win the PR battle is you make

the benefit. Suddenly people will be

like, "Hot diggity damn, I like that

data center because I don't pay a power

bill." That's how you win these fights.

>> Uh I'd love to see this in practice,

Senator, because you're probably on to

something when it comes to the sales

pitch knowing that a lot of the newer

data centers are actually fulfilling the

requirements that you just mentioned in

terms of closed loop uh cooling off-rid

or or what off behind the meter as they

call it uh energy flows. I wonder if

these flock cameras are coming next and

you'll see where I'm going with this cuz

we do want to get to your book. This is

something that everybody's talking about

as well, and there's Republican

legislation to ban federal spending on

these flock cameras. Wall Street Journal

today says there are 120,000 of them in

48 states, capturing 20 billion license

plates a month. This feels like the next

data center issue on the campaign trail.

What would a Justice Clarence Thomas

make of this?

>> Well, look, I I'll tell you what what a

Ted Cruz would make of it, which is I

don't like flot cameras. I I don't like

government surveillance. I I don't think

the government should be surveilling

innocent citizens. We we should use law

enforcement to go after criminals, but

we have a presumption of innocence. And

I think the the surveillance state,

China has built an espionage and

surveillance state. I don't want to see

America the same way. I I think these

flot cameras really invite abuse and I'm

hopeful the political process will

constrain it.

Well, so maybe the political and not the

judicial process. I think Senator what

Joe is getting to here is a question of

civil liberties and constitutional

rights and whether or not they are being

violated uh in this instance. These are

of course the very questions uh that

Justice Thomas has been dealing with

through his tenure on the court. And

your book is about uh his legacy uh on

the court and the background that of

course got them there and shaped his

judicial view. But what will his legacy

be reflected or how will people reflect

upon his legacy knowing he was sitting

on the bench at a time when we saw

confidence, public confidence in the

Supreme Court fall to an all-time low.

It's just at 33% right now. Senator,

>> well, I think Clarence Thomas's legacy

is going to be one of the most

extraordinary jurists to to ever serve

on the court. I I I know Justice Thomas

very well. He's a good friend. We've

been friends for 30 years. Uh, I wrote

this book, Going Further: The

Incomparable Clarence Thomas, to tell

his life story because I'll tell you,

Kayleie, his life story, it is

inspirational. It is extraordinary. It

is unique. There's no one else on the

court with a life story remotely like

this. He was born into abject poverty in

rural Georgia. He was born at a time of

bitter racism and discrimination. He

came from nothing. He studied in the

seminary to be a priest. We we almost

didn't get Justice Thomas. We almost got

Father Thomas. But but he left the

seminary because he was unhappy. He

thought the church was not being

vigorous enough standing up to racial

discrimination, standing up and fighting

for civil rights. And so he left the

church for many years. He he went to

Holy Cross for college and then Yale Law

School and he became a left-wing campus

radical. He was an angry young man in

camo pants and cam uh combat boots and a

poster of Malcolm X on the wall. He he

was participated in a riot in Harvard

Square. And and what I try to do in this

book is is number one tell his life

story taking him from poverty all the

way up to the pinnacle of American law,

but also chronicle his intellectual

transformation from an angry left-wing

radical to one of the most important

conservative thinkers in the world.

Justice Thomas is today the second

longest serving justice on the Supreme

Court. In two years, he will be the

longest serving justice in American

history. And what this book tries to do

is explain 30 years of juristprudence in

in in language that is understandable,

that is accessible. You don't have to be

a lawyer to to enjoy this book. This

book is fun, and it has stories inside

the court, who Clarence Thomas is.

Justice Thomas sat one-on-one with me

for 9 and a half hours of exclusive

interviews. And so I'm telling this

story so that you can understand a truly

consequential figure of history uh who

is about to be the longest serving

justice ever.

>> Well, the narrative is great as we

consider the man uh in chapter 10, the

lone wolf. You bring us into the

conference room of the Supreme Court

where then Chief Justice William

Renquist said, "Affirm." He was followed

by one justice after another all saying

affirm until it came to a young Clarence

Thomas speaking last in order of

seniority as you point out who said

reverse whatever the other eight

justices of the Supreme Court said

Justice Thomas was willing to say the

opposite and as you write he was not

doing this to be interesting. So Senator

what was the exercise?

>> Listen he is someone who is deeply

principled. The reason for the title of

the book going further, he is the

justice most willing to go back to the

constitution, go back to the original

understanding if a president is over is

wrong to overturn it and and and he has

a faithfulness and fidelity to the

constitution that that is unique. You

know, he was raised by his grandfather.

He he he was born into a single mom in

in really dire circumstances. His

grandparents raised him and and his

grandfather was a a very strict discip

disciplinarian. Myers Anderson was his

name and and young Clarence called him

daddy and and he would work Clarence and

his brother to the bone. He'd get them

up at 3:00 and 4 in the morning to

deliver fuel oil in the bitter cold. Uh

he wouldn't let the boys wear gloves

because he thought gloves were for the

weak. But he taught discipline and hard

work. And and both Justice Thomas's

grandparents were illiterate. They

couldn't read or write, but they

encouraged in Clarence reading. He could

go to the library and read and study and

and that attitude. There was a common

sense self-reliance

that he got from his grandfather. His

grandfather didn't consider himself a

conservative. But for example, even

though they lived in poverty, his

grandfather told young Clarence they

would never go on welfare because his

grandfather said, "If you take welfare

from the government, you give the

government a reason, an ability to come

into your house and tell you what to do,

and it's none of their business." And

one of my favorite things that Justice

Thomas's grandfather told him is he

said, "If it don't make no damn sense,

it don't make no damn sense."

That common sense through line is in

Justice Thomas's juristprudence

throughout.

>> All right, we'll leave it on that note.

Republican Senator Ted Cruz, author of

Going Further, thank you so much for

joining us. Thank you.