so we had a dinner where me and freeberg

and J Cal were invited to have dinner

with the folks from and their and their

other top podcast off the Record dinner

let's talk all about it there was an

interesting moment which even Friedberg

had to recognize which was we went

around and said hey what what podcast

you listening to which ones are your

favorites we went out in the room and I

gotta tell you you know what your

podcaster favorite podcast is bingo

Allin podcast well the funniest thing is

my wife thinks I'm bullshitting all the

time I say this is a mine too pretty

reasonably success F and well she

doesn't believe it she thinks we're all

why do you think I waited to

make my world podcast premiere for Allin

all the ankle biters called and I said

no I'm just going to wait I'm wait to

the bestie's

call can we just say it Nick you got to

it up when podcast called you're like

nope can't do it waiting sry I'm waiting

for the real deal I don't need

JV let your winners

ride Rainman David

and instead we open source it to the

fans and they've just gone crazy with it

love queen

of all right everybody welcome back to

the number one business finance

technology science podcast in the world

this is the place where we call balls

and Strikes where we tell the truth

where there is zero

censorship every week we tell you about

the truth behind the most important

stories we point out who the heroes are

and who the villains are who are the

delightful ones and who are the disra

with me again on this week's program the

cackling chairman dictator my guy mouth

poly Hoppa how you doing how was your

Victory La how was your Victory really

really really fun you look like you were

in your Afterglow and I have to say that

was looking pretty good uh we have some

pictures don't worry we're going to go

through behind the scenes

Armani came through for Amore the amort

collection from Armani coming this fall

by the way I mean Armani Couture is like

firing on all cylinders the the other

the other one which you'll see is a

great picture of this incredible jacket

Louisa beia two shout outs Armani and

Louisa bear you know I was just thinking

that Armani really has been making it

happen now that we've talked about that

we'll talk about my wardrobe when the

time comes just get through the rest of

the interest all right all right and of

course here is your Sultan of

science David Friedberg Move Along J

let's go let's go had a wonderful he's

very bitter today he's got a lot of

anger he is the Barista of bitterness

today he's serving up bitterness all day

long and he had a great time at the um

maybe he's a little upset about the Lex

fredman triangle we're in right now I

think that could be part of it and we

have a special guest

here Thomas leant is the co-founder of

kou management they got a 50 Billy under

management uh public private yada yada

before that he worked at creative artist

Agency for seven years after he he went

to college so he does have the college

degree he signed Captain

America which is freeberg favorite

avenger Chris evris Evans Chris EV and

um Hasa client by the way yes and you're

still in touch with him I am not you're

not but I watched with Wonder at uh what

he's achieved after I left being his

agent it's been incredible great career

now now behind you we see this

incredible uh you're missing the one

you're missing the one part which is

that Thomas was one of the highest rated

speakers that we had at the all in

Summit yeah that's true actually he did

really great last year really crushed it

crushed it crushed it of course and I

think I'm I'm in the seventh best de

position and and hoping potentially

after the podcast to at least move up by

one okay so there you go let's see what

happens here now what what's this view

behind you this is uh Los Angel

definitely put you ahead of jcal Thomas

so you're wow you're up a spot my God he

really is serving up the bitterness

today

yeah so mad he's soad you know why you

know why he's mad I'll tell you why

because

okay this is for the audience Jason is

complaining all week in the group chat

that he has influenza A he's sending

pictures of him getting IVs and so

freeberg the

conscientious guy and co-founder of the

Pod that he is says I will moderate and

then he invests his time okay he's got

he's got a lot of things going on he's

got do three kids plus one on he's

running a company strawberries he

prepares and then you wake up after a

dose of Tamiflu and decide no I'm ready

to moderate of course and you can't just

do that because it's not nice all right

put hey Madame producer can you come on

the horn for a second here are we really

gonna do this yes we are we're gonna do

it we're doing it Madam this is so

stupid so

stupidy did I tell you to get freeberg

involved no no I did it myself okay you

went rogue can I say why you can go

Rogue I'm fine I said hey Jason how are

you feeling you said horrible I have the

flu I'm getting an IV tomorrow morning

to me that was like oh okay there's like

a 50% chance he misses the show so I

reached sh to freeberg I said hey

Jason's really sick with the flu maybe

you should just prepare yourself to

moderate tomorrow okay now when did I

find out about this when did I I think

that was a smart decision but you sir

are a small bitter man and so what you

did was you wanted to just yeah you

wanted to blow up free Brook's

preparation I found out about this this

morning I found out about this like an

hour ago how are you feeling I feel 80%

of a normal jcal which is 110% of any

other moderator I me get yourself Andrew

rorin I'm sorry he's genu flecting at

Davos to a bunch of

mids well we're going to get lexon so

we're going to get Lex oh that would be

great hello I am Lex fredman welcome to

the number one podcast in the world

today on the program we have Thomas

lefon investor in such great companies

as all right listen enough Shenanigans

we had so much fun we tore DC apart

let's start with actually just Thomas

did you watch any of it on TV did you

think about going it was really like um

there was so many tech people in

Washington this weekend I saw the live

stream I talked to saaks last night to

get get the download and you know my

takeaway just from watching especially

the executive orders was you know

democracy in action democracy

self-correct yeah and dictatorships

double down and to watch in real time a

country of our scale and a democracy you

know decide to make a change

I think that's why we've been great for

you know 250 plus years and will remain

great so it was fun to watch I'm really

curious to see what your takeaway was

okay well let's just we'll just go

behind the scenes first of all it's hard

to see that this was me dressed up for

Sax's ball I really brought the Heat

this is by the way Luca rubac is the

tailor here it's hard to see is blue Co

so this is what I'm saying I think the

picture is very hard to see but it's a

very refined green pap gley

o subtle hard to bring it out now I will

say this was the most popular shirt over

the entire weekend this is just a simple

Bion tuxedo shirt it was 200 versions of

it I felt bad when I saw because

normally I don't like to wear things

that other people are wearing correct

yeah what did Michael salor think of

this when you saw Michael salor at the

um at the you know I met I met Michael

CFO wonderfully nice guy so this is us

at the this is us at the crypto ball I

went for white tuxedo on the first night

I've never had three tuxedos before but

David looked David looked really great I

really love and saaks had this

incredible tux which was more crypto

themed it sort of looked like the

opening scene from The Matrix so there

was like this cool print you can see my

green in there a little bit Thomas in

this okay yeah yeah got it there's sky

and new money Sunny the president of

grock suep madra

x.com here the besties here the besties

I was

let's be honest guys even in all your

bitterness freeberg you felt the love at

this moment when we were all back

together did you not well minutes before

this when the three of us took a a video

a photo it was great yeah yeah okay

great so bit let you moderate you can

moderate if you want if you're that BR

you're doing a great job j keep we're 18

minutes into this and we're doing

fashion still Vin Sky Diego berkin the

co-founder of cloud kitchens so handsome

that

this was the crypto ball yeah this was

the crypto ball this was like this was

Sox's event it was

incredible it was a large number of

people there I was shocked at the number

of people at the crypto oh it was it was

huge hug here's a little poker after

behind the scenes with

pink TK Travis Clinic the co-founder the

founder of uber oh look that's on we got

to see who who's got the biggest stack

look it's the founder of uber next to

the third investor Uber uh and the

founder of cloud kitchens next to the

investor in Cloud kit Peter Teal's house

this is Katie Han and Kyle

Sani my wife and's wife amore amore this

is at Peter's house Peter had this Peter

te had this person going around taking

pictures this not good lighting for

you there better oh this was great also

Peter Teal's house yeah that was great I

have to say shth putting aside Jason

likes being a republican here's a here's

a here's a dinner that we had there's

Lex fredman Julius Janikowski who's the

former chairman of the FCC little known

the uh former uh former roommate of

Obama by the way following this dinner

all those streets were blocked off and

there was no way to get around you see

it there look you see the it was like 10

degrees Fen so we walk out yes it's

terrible it was like you were going to

die after two seconds out there it was C

start walking to try get our car and

after walking for like half a mile we're

like dude there's no way out of this

downtown area and Vinnie was shaking

he's like I'm going to die I'm going to

die I'm gonna die he turns around he

goes running back to the restaurant

jumps in and basically like huddles down

in the restaurant and then after about

10 minutes there's no way out he's like

you know it's sort of like you're in a

military zone he's like I'm gonna go for

it he runs out jumps on a scooter and he

disappeared into the distance and I

swore I would never see Vinnie again I'm

like that's it I think it's very smart

that Lex wears the same outfit the black

suit with the white shirt with the black

tie I really like the the consistency of

it actually it looks really he this is

it was incredible he was getting stopped

here here's every two minutes it was

unbelievable here's the jacket this is

Louisa beia and then here's the box from

Armani thank you unboxing whoa wah wa

wewa oh look there's a little side boob

there with that I didn't notice

that that's uh this is I'm wearing Tom

Ford shout out Tom Ford shout out

perfect mail for oh here's a huge shout

out to two guys that I had really wanted

to meet in person I finally got the

chance to meet this is at zuck's party

this is Brendan Carr who's the incoming

chairman of the FCC actually this

picture was taken right after he had

gotten confirmed so this was his first

day as the chairman and then this is a

guy who I've been following for a couple

of years Jared isman who is now going to

run NASA he's the founder and CEO of

shift for payments but both of these

guys are pretty epic you should should

follow them on Twitter he did a space

walk the first civilian Space Walk he

did he's he's he's really really Bron

was really nice I met him at Peter's uh

event and he told me he's a big fan of

the Pod he listens to show every amazing

I mean by the way if you want to see

like some really amazing tweets he had

some real bangers he's a very smart guy

he's um I've had Brendan on this week St

a couple times he's the guy who

fought for Starling that's right over

wasting five

$20,000 per home to install Broadband I

mean this guy's a hero uh and and he did

that when he was in office under Biden

and all that crazy corruption and grift

this is a picture of Mike Johnson and

his wife it this is a crazy story so

there was a G7 Summit in Italy and Mike

and his wife had was seated beside my

father-in-law Nat's dad at a dinner they

got to know each other he as a proud

grandpa showed Mike and his wife

pictures of natad and myself and our

kids and how we actually met in this

moment was his wife was like oh my God I

recognize you you're Sergio's son-in-law

you're Sergio's daughter it's amazing

and then we had a cool conversation so

that was cool and then this is Bill py

who is nominated to run fhfa which for

folks that know will be in control of

the conservatorship of Fanny May and

Freddy Mack and really great guy also a

co-investor with with me in Mr

Beast

not oh you're an investor in Mr Beast

there you go this is Mr I did the series

a this is the first time I think you've

said the here's this thing so this is

where jcal is at his Peak go ahead just

play I don't even know what this is go

what what is that what did you order all

right um I've given it some

thought and I'm going to order the

$95 do

Soul the $95 D soul

your tips included in I

mean we were just having such a great

time uh tearing it up I did order the

$95 do this is a oh sorry oh that's

that's me and Bobby Kennedy but this is

a this is walking into the capital for

the inauguration oh wow so you basically

you have to get off all these buses were

taking us in because of the security and

then you walk underneath and underground

to get into the and this is Bobby and

the guy right there c means another

great American make America healthy

again all right here's a couple of my

picks this is um me with somebody who's

going to be in the administration I'm

not big on politics but um telsey gabard

is Gab she's so strong she went she came

to our party this is the picture of our

party she is incredible well she came up

to me and she you know you can always

tell who a real fan is and she up I just

want to tell you J C I am a huge fan of

the Pod I love what you do I love the

you know balance should bring to the

program she really liked new details

about the podcast and so I wanted to get

a picture with her so as a joke I said

to her do you want to take a selfie I

said I'm okay with the selfie she goes I

was going to ask I was like no I'm

preemptively asking we took it together

funar she I think she's gonna be great I

like her a lot she's such a star oh well

yeah this is hello I am Lex Freedman

today with love and peace in my heart I

am interviewing dictator ID Amin who has

eaten half of his enemies we will share

love kindness and a fatty liver

enjoy so yeah that was us just tearing

it up after the YouTube party where we

hung out with Sundar and Neil from

YouTube they've been very good to us and

then here's one more I guess one more

and golfer Bryson dambo oh there's me

and the uh Presidente uh Twitter and

yeah this is the podcast crew at the

Free Press party okay let's talk about

key takeaways Chamas what is your big

takeaway from the weekend I think my

biggest takeaway is

that if you look in the

past there was a very tight coordination

I guess I would say between Private

Industry and the private sector and the

public sector meaning the president and

then people who were in charge of

managing huge vast swats of resources in

America and somewhere along the way that

became either unfashionable and uncool

particularly under

Democrats and what I saw was a very

broad-based

Embrace of business people because I

think that the president understands how

important it is to make sure that

economically America is just firing on

all cylinders the one thing to remember

like for example in the inauguration I

know that you saw the picture and it was

basically like

meta Google Apple Amazon Tesla kind of

CEOs Etc Founders Arno was there mukash

Amani was there so it's just business

people from the entire world were there

and so I think what it says is America's

G to basically turn a totally new page

we're not going to ostracize people

we're not going to play favorites that's

the other thing you know Elon was there

right at the beginning but if you saw

all the CEOs of the you know major

companies were there it's not like he

excluded Zuck because of his past issues

or anything or Sam Alman or Sam Alman

that was the biggest more notable one

yeah to exclude yeah that that the

president doesn't play favorites that

this is like Team America kind of thing

and it was a projection of tremendous

power to the rest of the world this is

what America is about I loved every

minute of it and I think that this is

exactly how the American government

should be working which is hand inand

with Private Industry to basically set

the pace for the rest of the world Thom

did you have a takeway after the weekend

I did I'm curious what you guys thought

but to me what was notable from Scott

Besson the new treasury secretary he was

asked in one of the exchanges about the

green Energy race with China and he

reframed the debate I thought incredibly

well where he said we're not in a green

Energy race with China we're in an

energy race with China that's right

right and he made the point that China

is adding 100 coal plants it's adding

nuclear and to me it was kind of just

137 gwatt Hydro facility which is

exactly unbelievable and it was such a

good framing of the debate because I

think chamath to your point it's about

reframing the right issues right and I

think that just that little piece of

dialogue to me is exemplified you know

and was a really important takeaway and

I think more of what we'll see over the

next coming year freeberg did you have a

takeaway coming out of this there was

just so much it was so impressive to be

there I definitely Echo the sentiment

about seeing the strength of America

represented between the entrepreneurial

engine that has driven this country for

250 years and the government that's

meant to serve the people working

together to try and take America forward

it was just really inspiring um the one

thing that was the biggest kind of

observation for me which was a bit of a

disappointment unfortunately is I feel

like Doge and cost cutting

is going to be a lot harder to realize

than folks assume uh nearly everyone I

met with who works in government or is

entering

government had this if not disdain for

Doge a concern that it doesn't really

align interests with the political

objectives of politicians that they need

to get more stuff for their constituents

in order to get reelected and that

they're not going to vote programs away

they're not going to vote themselves out

of a job which is effectively what they

would do if they cut programs in fact I

was watching Brook

Roland's secretary a confirmation

hearing this morning and Mitchell

Connell was given the opportunity to ask

her questions you know what his question

was he said in the last farm bill I was

able to get $60 million to build an a

research lab at the University Kentucky

and it hasn't started being built yet

it's been four years what are you going

to do about that this is literally the

intention of so many of these

conversations if you sit and watch and

then I watched a similar conversation

with a senator from Minnesota who you

know I I won't get into all the the

statements but every single conversation

you hear and we even talked with Ted

Cruz about this is all about great by

the way I love Ted Cruz it's all about

excellent It's all about what can I get

for my constituents how do I get more

jobs and how do I get more money and

ultimately that incentive is what gets

people elected and I don't think it's

going to change and so that was the

biggest kind of shock for me I thought

that there was a moment of the

importance of cost cutting the

importance of deficit reduction the

importance of debt reduction and I was

just a little saddened to kind of see

that that there's no stop in the train

so that was my takeaway it's a little

bit bitter I hope I'm wrong I really do

hope doge is effective and I really do

hope that policy makers start to

recognize the importance by the way R

Doo has a new book coming out we'll talk

more about his book once it's released

publicly but it speaks very clearly to

the challenge the United States is now

facing with respect to spending so I

know I've talked about this I know we

all felt like there was a big reprieve

with this election but for me it was a

little bit Bittersweet can I I say a

little bit on that first topic that I I

just want to double down on that because

one of the things that some folks said

and I guess it makes sense now that you

think about it but when you look at the

confirmation hearings there are certain

folks For Whom the resource allocation

is relatively modest inside of America

they tend to just do much better in

general and if you saw Marco Rubio's

confirmation process there was you know

it was like 99 to zero right and to your

point what what they say is that folks

that actually allocate the internal

spending in the United States gets a lot

more scrutiny because there's all of

this horse trading because they want

some of this money to get allocated into

their specific area it is going to be a

very complicated thing the the one thing

though that changed I don't know if you

saw but Doge was meant to be outside the

offices of the government and it wasn't

actually a government department and

it'll be interesting to understand when

it's explained but in the 11th Hour the

EO that established Doge established it

actually as a governmental agency yeah

we're going to get into that uh in just

a moment and um you know to build on

your point there Dave Senator Sanders uh

had a tweet today Nick I just sent it to

you already the discussion of like who

should take the brunt of these Cuts is

starting to happen and he's pointing out

you know as he should and you know hey

what's going to happen with the VA and

you're you're putting a freeze on hiring

people we have to make sure our vets are

taken care of we have a shortage of

doctors a short of of nurses but we do

have people you know responding to him

saying hey how are we going to pay for

all this so even if it's going to be

hard to do it's going to take courage

because you're going to be faced with

situations like this where does anybody

want to see va's budget cut and these

veterans who are coming back they should

get all the services in the world and

these hard discussions are now happening

and it's not taboo so the Overton

Windows wide open now to discuss even

the budget of the VA and where is the

money going to come from so I think

we're actually going to make progress on

it the this was like a sacred cow and

now we're we're talking about it uh to

the to Bernie Sanders point I don't know

if you saw there was a note on there

Nick community notes pointed out that

Trump put that none of the cuts should

impact vets and so I thought that was um

a good use of community notes there the

one comment I'll say about burn Bernie

Sanders is when Russ vote who is the

nominee to run om went through his

confirmation

yesterday Sanders asked a similar

question around Medicare and Medicaid

and what was interesting is Russ tried

to actually answer the question and give

the details around where they can be

waste Fraud and Abuse Sanders really

didn't want to hear it he just wanted a

sound bite so I think these confirmation

processes are

performative they're hugely performative

yes I do think that and this applies I

think to both sides Democrats as well

when when they are eventually in power I

think that when you're given a very

clear mandate as a president I think you

should be able to get to pick your

team because it's clear that the

American people have voted an agenda

it's not like he hid that agenda and so

the people that then want to implement

that agenda should be put on the field

it seems like the point of these should

be if somebody could get compromised or

there was something really gnarly in

their background like but otherwise yeah

let people build their team and then

they have to own their results tell us

about your feelings and takeaways about

the weekend well you know it's obviously

mixed I was a never Trumper and uh now

I'm rooting for him wholeheartedly to do

great

work hon you kind of like him come on

you do kind of like anybody who met

anybody who interacted with Trump before

you go your diet tribe just say it just

say you like him there are aspects I

like about the platform I like probably

80% of the platform and I will tell you

today that 20% I don't like I'm always

gonna call balls and Strikes but you you

kind of like him just say you kind of

like him you do like him I like 80% of

his platform this time around him him as

a person you know I there's things I

really don't like and I'll talk about

them today but anyway let's put inside

the the personal thing doesn't matter

what matters is what he does for the

American people and like you I know you

can't say it yet but they're deep down

inside you like Jak to be there you had

I have to say I had a lot of

fun Republicans are fun I will say

Republicans are fun fashion was off the

hook off the hook lot of great fashion

and it was great America beautiful again

my gosh I mean listen I no more jogging

pants and and white get rid of it

Burn It To The Ground B what I'll say my

takeaway was you know as somebody who

had concerns and you know I'm just I'm

not going to make the show about me but

the

important thing for me is who is Trump

going to lead with this time around is

it going to be the people from the sort

of 1.0 movement or the 2.0 movement

there was not a 1.0 person couldn't be

be couldn't be found couldn't be found

and so to like on the margin one or two

and and they were not the focus and who

you put in the front row speaks volumes

who do you put in the front row Sundar

Elon Zuck Lauren Sanchez he's got his

priorities straight here Lauren Sanchez

the priorities were very clear as to

what's important for this Administration

and I'm fully behind all of his

priorities both of those priorities all

those priorities seem incredibly

important to me you're such troll I mean

I don't want to troll too much but

that's the big takeaway for me and if

that is you know indicative of where he

wants to go with this which is business

first we're proud of our leaders we're

proud of innovation I think he's

sticking to it did you see him on at

Davos today he did a a I mean this guy's

got you know just crazy energy who mle

Trump zoomed into Davos and just dunked

on them for 45 minutes he did yes and he

just destroyed everybody at their dying

conference in their irrelevance as they

genuflected begging him to

come next year did you see the photo of

the half empty conference room to yes

you know most of the events were were

just empty chairs crazy it's it's

irrelevant I mean these people are

irrelevant now Thomas you guys remember

when Davos used to be a really big deal

is it debt I think it's worse trth I

think it's a counter indicator now it is

and there was a good conversation

yesterday greme Allison who spoke at our

Summit was on this panel and they

basically said we lost they won do like

our group here at davo is lost it's over

yeah and they're no longer to your point

on the right side of History they said

we had a point of view on the future we

believe we were going in the right

direction and everyone told us in this

last couple months that we were wrong

the gentleman by the way that spoke

after Grant was was also very good this

is incredible this is the greatest

comeback in political history of a

politician and then therefore he thinks

he can do anything we need to also

factor in not only who won which is

Trump but who's lost which is to say us

and then he has a whole the guy has a

whole long monologue on why they lost

and what they lost which I think is

pretty relevant that that you know kind

of elite if you will has been replaced

with a populist vote and a populist

leader all right let's get to our docket

today and just want to give a special

shout out we did our Inauguration live

stream and it was awesome and fun

special thanks to air call Abra and hyms

Thomas if you've ever got an issue with

weight or you know other issues that men

have you can go to hymns and use the

code Allin to get something hs.com Allin

I want you to write that down Thomas

okay in case you have have any any

issues uh that's what makes you think I

haven't already I well it's anything's

possible like I mean maybe we could talk

I mean are you on the chws or the pills

which one anyway we'll talk about it

offline but that's a full head of hair

it is a really incredible head of hair

thank you all natural baby it's great

it's great do you put what product do

you put in it yeah you put sea salt or

you got pomas what are you doing

allinone allinone PR shampoo plus

conditioner one bottle easy no but you

don't you don't use any product

afterwards none Jesus do you blow

yourself or do you have it

blown a question both but in this case

it's you know like Cuba Gooding and

Jerry Maguire I air dry baby oh air dry

gotta so when you're dry driving to that

Santa Monica office you just put the top

down on whatever convertible living that

full lifestyle okay yeah this is where I

I do have to admit unfortunately after

the after you appeared on the summit I

had all these women they were like oh my

God Thomas lefont is so good-looking and

I was like no he's not because I'm very

competitive in Zero Sum when other men

around me get but you were the Smash Hit

and then I figured out it must be the

hair and also the glasses I think the

glasses were a huge hit it looked very

Clark ksh are they are they real glasses

or you wear the clear ones to get the

extra intelligence points only time I've

ever been stopped in the street in my

life in the

Presidio a very nice lady tapped me in

the shoulder and said I loved your

all-in talk that's never happened before

so that says more about all-in than me

but the reach is

increasing it's a little bit by shout

out to Akash Singh who joined us on the

um live oh yes Akash was hilarious thank

you AOS filling in our Dei Department we

lost Cham and they sent AOS so he did

great get him back to gessos absolutely

yeah there's a moderator slot open so

he's going to be absolutely if you know

anybody who knows science all right in

our first topic president Trump smashed

the record for day one executive orders

26 in all beating the prior record of

nine by Uncle Joe Biden and no other

president signed more than one EO in day

one since the Federal Register started

tracking this in 19 1937 let's go

through them if you want to comment on

one we'll stop and pause or we can just

run through them gentlemen Doge

officially was established and uh people

are making note of the Doge SWAT team

Doge will assign an agency head to each

Federal agency the agency head will

build a four-person team this will

include an engineer an HR specialist and

an attorney it was separately announced

that v um was leaving Doge to run for

governor of Ohio fascinating interesting

I don't know if anybody's got a take

there they suspended the Tik Tock ban

for 75 days there's a lot more to get

into this so we're going to break that

down a little later TI to yeah okay

we'll go right to that in a minute the

January 6 pardons they pardon, 1500

January 6 participants including some

that savagely beat cops very

controversial we'll get back to that in

a moment ending Birthright citizenship

this is a controversial one that is

being fought legally those born in the

US to illegal immigrants would no longer

be considered citizens if this holds up

the birthright

citizenship is codified in the 14th

Amendment and 22 state attorney generals

have already sued over this executive

order so it might be a performative one

energy unleashing American Energy we're

going to dump into that one jump into

that one for sure and then federal

employees a hiring freeze and a full

return to office and the hiring fee

doesn't apply to military immigration

enforcement or Public Safety and then a

regulatory freeze on regulations

gentlemen where do we want to start Jan

6 Tik Tock Doge TI Thomas you're our

guest where do you want to start I'm

happy to chat about Tik Tok okay as we

mentioned earlier Trump extended Tik

tok's grace period by 75 days Trump said

he wants to get a deal done he also said

at a press conference that he'd like the

US to own 50% of Tik Tok and that it

could be a trillion dollar

asset that's unique and interesting he

was also positive about the idea of Elon

possibly buying it or maybe Larry

Ellison or anybody so he wants to make a

deal what are your thoughts Thomas on

what should happen with Tik Tok and what

will happen I don't know what will

happen but I do think it'd be

interesting um to share you guys we were

in we are investors in Tik Tok okay we

invested back it was obviously just a

Chinese company and investing in China

was very different back then but what

resonated to me when I met the founder

and he just had a very simple idea which

is his view was if I have a piece of

content and it's a great piece of

content how can I have it be shared and

his view was that if you share it on

Instagram the only way people see it as

if you had you know a lot of followers

and so he just had a really simple idea

and he said what if I take every piece

of content that's uploaded into the

system and I show it to at least one

other user so no matter what that

content is at least one person will see

it even if you have no followers and

then based on whether that person views

it or how long I might show it to

another user and then a third and a

fourth and it was such a revolutionary

idea and it really resonated with me at

the time and it just goes to show how

we're in an idea business and when you

have a truly revolutionary idea it can

get really big and so the the whole

Genesis of Tik Tok came from that really

simple concept of your content will be

shown and if people like it it'll be

shown to a lot of people so obviously I

mean if you look at Tik Tok in the US we

can just kind of very back of the

envelope look at the math right so if we

look at daus mother blue or meta as we

love to know the Facebook hat roughly

right has about 200 million

daus in the active users for folks who

don't know the terminology yeah correct

right so if you look at Facebook blit

Instagram you'll see it's about 200

million daus

and you can look at the time spent

what's interesting about Tik tok's time

spent is the daus are about half of

combined meta in insta so we get about

100 million daus in the US but the time

spent on the platform is the equivalent

of Facebook plus Instagram so obviously

um incredible not just scale in terms of

daus but also on time spent so if we

think about okay well what what would

that mean the business is worth so if we

look at meta today the market cap is

roughly 1 and a half

trillion I think internet investors

generally assume that roughly half the

market cap is

us so if we take the one and a half

trillion maybe that's 750 billion right

now we know that the time spent is

equivalent but the daus are half so

maybe we cut the 750 in half right that

would tell you that the max value would

po you know if you monetize the way meta

does and ranted the way zck does might

be 3 75 billion for the US asset alone I

think from that point you know you kind

of start to apply a couple discounts

right one is if that's my kind of

long-term value what kind of return

would an investor want potentially to

get to that 375 you know is it 50% so

maybe you cut that by

50% and then I think the devil would be

in the details what are exactly are you

getting are you just getting users are

you getting the algorithm are you

getting data right so maybe you also so

want to apply kind of a more kind of

severe discount to that but I think you

put it all together you know is 100

billion a reasonable

scenario you know I think the math

proves it and then could it be a

trillion dollar asset the way Trump has

mentioned I mean in a world where

Facebook's one and a half right and the

penetration of Tik Tok in the US is 50%

of what meta is I don't think it's

unrealistic so let's see what happens I

don't have any particular Insight on

what will happen but what I do know is

that it's an incredibly valuable

franchise so let me ask you the the

obvious question people are looking at

this and saying wait you're going to

take 50% of your shares and in this case

we actually have somebody here who has

shares so are you comfortable with the

government seizing 50% of your shares I

guess is one way to frame

it well I don't know I mean first of all

there's there's kind of no deals so it's

a little bit hard I can tell you that he

proposed so if in that scenario would

you yeah we never attributed much value

to the you know the Tik Tok us asset in

the sense of our our analysis was always

based on the value of the Chinese

business specifically because it's just

hard to know what the you know the Tik

Tok asset ex China would be worth right

is it worth zero because it's so

compromised regulatorily is it worth a

lot more it's just very very difficult

to know so we always took a very kind of

conservative view of really looking at

kind of the Chinese and you know some of

the other assets as the core value of B

Dan the holding

company ultimately what Tik Tok happens

I mean it's the classic when you try and

sell a company what's the value where it

depends is there one bidder or five

biders right is the government the only

uh bidder for that asset in that case it

kind of will indicate a value of x or

are there other companies that

potentially could be an acceptable

bidder to both sides

well the Trump deal though is he's

saying the government the United States

government the citizens of America would

get half of the company so that would be

the equivalent of you get shares the US

company yeah so what do you think of

this proposal because this seems like

unique in all the world so if in order

to have it spin out and maintain half

your shares would you be willing to give

all of us the government the citizens of

the United States half your shares well

I mean if you think about it what what

what did we

we learn that it might just get shut

down and be worth zero right so in one

sense anything that's greater than zero

by definition is kind of better right I

think

ultimately it will kind of come down to

does the government want to be the only

bidder for the asset or would the

comfortable would the government be

comfortable with either Elon owning it

and merging into to X or Microsoft

owning it or you know what

let me ask you a question can you just

tell the audience a little bit about

because you guys have been involved as

investors in China for a long time I

would love for you to share behind the

scenes what has gone on with respect to

being an investor in China in technology

over the last couple of years what has

changed and why and what goes on today

you guys made a fantastic investment in

by dance which is the parent company of

Tik Tok you've made other incredible

investments in China are you still

investing in China if not walk us

through what happened and why I think if

you look Dave at most of our virtually

all of our investments in China were

Chinese companies catering to the

Chinese market right right and there was

a massive trend of a very significant

economy that was adopting technology

right and so we can think about whether

that' be

smartphones companies like you know

Huawei whether it was companies like

Matan that were doing food deliver or 10

cent that were doing gaming and so you

know all our approach was basically

based on these companies and by the way

a lot of them were public which is what

people don't remember shath you may

remember but 10cent at one point was a

public company listed in Hong Kong the

market cap was 200 million yeah I do

remember so wow what was interesting

about it Dave is a lot of that played

out by do was an early IPO right so a

lot of that trend of Chinese companies

catering to the Chinese market really

kind of played out across public and

private markets for over 20 years y I

think to me what's significantly changed

over the past five

years is technology really became a

matter of National Security and I don't

think that when we were early investors

in Matan right that we necessarily

viewed that as a national security

threat as an example right and I think

as you know companies got bigger

as AI kind of came to be it became

pretty obvious that there were National

Security implications and you know our

view as investors is we don't set the

rules of the road we rely on government

and Regulators to do so it was pretty

clear I think to obvious that the

regulatory regimes were changing in both

countries and so for us as investors you

know we were just well we're just going

to follow what what the rules are and

what the governments are so my only kind

of regret through this whole thing is

and I don't know any you know if you

guys had kind some exposure to this but

the quality of the entrepreneurs that

came out of that era was

unbelievable strong cohort yeah

absolutely when you think about the the

founder of Matan Wanga and just how

brilliant he was and what he's done with

that franchise and not just doing food

delivery but also the software operating

system for restaurants right is truly

incredible Pony ma from 10cent right it

it was such an incredible group of

entrepreneurs they were a lot of fun to

be around they were excited and

passionate about bringing technology to

their

country and you know I and is it

over yeah hard to know I mean if you

look at the capital markets I mean you

can see we've not seen a tremendous

amount of innovation right or or new

companies kind of coming out so I think

the key question is you know is it a

pendulum and you know does the Chinese

regulatory regime kind of move one way

and then it kind of moves another way or

is it kind of fixed in this state is it

your Reed is it correct to say that the

CCP wanted to stop this extraordinary

wealth creation by a subset of

individuals in the country that this was

kind of becoming too much of a

capitalist enterprising system and

challenge some of the foundations of the

CCP is that what was going on and why

this all got throttled back I mean is

there or is there something something

else some other kind of you know

security I don't really know Dave

because as an investor it's you know

it's not a regulatory regime that you

have any interaction with right you're

really talking to the entrepreneurs and

you're kind of reflecting off of their

energy and their business ideas right so

we would meet businesses and we would

meet Founders and if if the idea was

kind of interesting to us we would kind

of fund it right so it's a black box in

some ways you know in terms of a market

to invest in you only have a limited

amount of

information and after Jack I mean you

got to think after Jack ma kind of

disappeared for a couple years if you're

an entrepreneur and you want to like the

message was sent the message was sent

message received and then you start

thinking about chamama you know what

Trump just did anding just did you put

those two things together Trump put all

of our top guys Top Dogs on stage here

they are it's the exact opposite of

China the message is very clear and it's

what Thomas said like technology is a

national security imperative and so

we're going to embrace these guys we're

not going to play favorites we're not

going to pick one and not the other

we're not going to have Summits and have

you know the founder of an entire

category not be invited that's just it's

honestly it's patently stupid and

immature and that's what the Biden

Administration did picked favorites yeah

and that is dumb based on the

implication and importance of technology

I just want to go back to the Tik Tok

thing I want to make three points one is

from the past I'll give you my sense of

the Tik Tok thing and I'm going to make

a prediction for the future

in

1984 the way that lvmh began was through

a deal that Bernard Arno

architected there was a business owned

by the French cotton King Marcel busac

and inside of that Empire was Christian

Dior long story short his Empire was

crumbling and Arno did a deal where he

bought that dying business essentially

from the French government for one Frank

fast forward now 40 Years of very hard

work and tremendous execution that's a

$350 billion public company now imagine

back then in

1984 if the French government actually

had done a deal where they said we'll

sell it to you for 50% of whatever you

build take it for a dollar but we're

going to own 50% of The Upside and you

know they would have an extra $175

billion

today I think that that's very important

in terms of what is possible today I

like Thomas's math I believe it I do

think it's about hundred billion asset

but at the end of the day the president

was very clear that it is completely and

entirely worthless without his permit

and he wants to own 50% of this asset

now if you're a buyer of something

you're not going to pay1 billion do if

you control whether it can exist or not

you're basically going to pay today's

equivalent of Frank which would be

$1 now I'm not saying that it is going

to be a dollar but if the United States

Treasury wants to hold 50% of an asset

that could be worth a 100 billion or 500

billion or you know maybe a

trillion it would make sense for the

United States Treasury and the United

States people to own that at effectively

zero so I think that the incentive is

there and I think he has essentially

said that he is going to do the best

deal in his interests which is the

United States

interests which I suspect means a price

that is as low as possible approaching

$1 and ultimately won't this be the

Chinese government's decision because

they could always say you know what let

it die maybe but my my point is it may

not be a dollar maybe it could be 25

billion maybe it could be 10 billion but

my point is I find it very hard to see

how it gets to the actual value that it

is today so then I think let me just

make a prediction for the future future

there's a question that this raises

which is does it make sense for the

American

government to be a little bit smarter

going forward about how it allocates

incentives and resources the American

government is still the largest single

land owner in America we give

concessions to private companies to

drill to build

things and it just turns out that if you

apply this example more broadly wouldn't

it make sense where when you create

incredible economic incentives and

upside for private investors and

investment for some portion of that gain

to go back to the American people is

that a bad thing I don't think so for

example if you said we're going to

accelerate permitting for all these data

centers we're going to make any form of

energy which was the opposite of what

the Biden EO said on his way out the

door he had all these conditions but if

the president president Trump's CEO on

data centers says any kind of energy but

we want to own a 5% Royal

and we allow you to put it on federal

lands or 10% or

15% would it really change the

underwriting that Blackstone and all

these other companies will do I don't

think so would it enrich America I think

so would it make it easier for people to

feel like they're participating in all

of these incredible gains I also think

so so my prediction is that this becomes

more of a template for the future it'll

be less about permitting it'll be more

about creating incentives allocating

those incentives for a share of The

Upside and I think that there is a

really strong economic argument for

America to do that you know trath to

build on that people don't remember but

Tesla got $465 million from the

Department of energy that was called the

atvm program which was the advanced

technology Vehicles manufacturing that

was a very Visionary program at the time

Visionary but it but it took no equity

but it didn't take equity and that was

dumb so dumb they should have gotten

some portion of equity some portion of a

loan Tesla did so well thanks to Elon

and the team hard work they paid it back

early they paid it back early that's how

well they did if they had owned 10% of

Tesla but 10% yeah I think the president

has has has sniffed this out by the way

this but and and you may not think that

these are related but when he said that

he's considering eliminating federal

income tax and funding this thing from

tariffs and he just had a press

conference today where he's inviting

every single company to come and make

things in the United States because he

will create economic incentives to make

it here cheaper but if you make it

abroad and bring it in here he's going

to charge money and a tariff all of this

are part and parcel of I think this

broader economic realization and unlike

20089 and 10 when we were allocating

money or 2020 and 21 and 22 where we

were just sending money out the door

with frankly no consequence and no

accounting this time around I think he's

got some incredibly sharp business

people this is by the way the upside of

having folks that have actually been

successful in the real world working

inside of government is they're going to

help them get to this realization and I

think it's a really good one I don't

think Tim Tim Walter my only push back

to you chamoff on that would be I just

think it's a dangerous game for the

government to start picking winners you

know I wouldn't for example if it owns

50% of a Tik Tok does does a

disadvantage a meta as an example right

and I do wonder is the value capturing

mechanism for the government taxes

essentially right so the the the way you

capture the the right the portion of the

value creation of these companies is

through a tax system and I do think we

just have to be careful of the

government all of a sudden picking

different companies to win you know I do

think having a good set of incentives a

Level Playing Field let the competitive

dynamics of different companies fight

each other and then capture the value

through taxes I think you're right and I

think that that part is absolutely

fundamental but I think there is a way

to architect this for example you have

these rfps that by Design have to be

published in the open source and

available for anybody to bid on my only

point is just to say that when there is

an ultimate winner why not have a small

stake in the upside look at the amount

of money that the doe gives in Grants

I'll give you an example you know one of

these companies that I helped start a

few years ago to make Advanced Battery

materials we got a $150 million Grant

I'm very appreciative of that Grant but

if they also asked for five or 10% of

the equity I would have still said yes

of course you would have yeah it's a

great deal and why not give a little

upside to the taxpayers I agree with

that by the way a parallel to that would

be Spectrum right if you think about

Wireless right kind of got built the

government auctioned off spectrum and

then allowed public you know private

companies to kind of come and bid on it

and you know so there there's a lot of

different interesting mechanisms you can

bring to that yeah freeberg which would

you like to go to next well I'll just

wrap on the Tik Tok

sure I do worry a lot about the predent

being set here with respect to foreign

government actions on us companies in

their in their local countries imagine

the CCP tells Tesla they have to sell

their Chinese operations and give 50% of

the Chinese operations to

the Chinese government because of their

concerns about security where Tesla is

now able to track Chinese citizens

driving around and where they are and

you can see very quickly how this whole

kind of overall I think presentation of

the security risk that we face with Tik

Tok and therefore we will shut it down

or own it creates I think a counter that

could really hurt American companies you

could see this going to Google to Apple

to Tesla even food manufacturing

companies that have operations overseas

where local governments say hey we need

to for local security purposes we need

to take ownership of your business I

think one of the things that's really

benefited Americans in global trade is

our ability to sell and Export our

technology our goods and our services

around the

world through open trade and I do think

that we've used this kind of Tik Tock

security thing to say this is a

rationale for us doing this as a one-off

but it also opens up a lot of other

people to say this is a oneoff and so

I'm just generally very wary about this

whole Tik Tok situation opening up a can

of worms you're 100% right and by the

way the ccp's done it already they did

it to Apple and if you follow what

happened when they introduced iCloud I

don't know if you remember gcbd

gcbd is the Chinese

state-owned data company the cloud

provider there and they just told Apple

we get all the data and they just had to

roll over and all citizens in China who

use an iPhone in order to use an iPhone

in China your data is owned by the

government period full stop and apple

had no choice but to do that so you want

to if you want to play in a certain

Market you got to play by the rules the

thing the thing to keep in mind here is

I hear all of these kind of like

theoretical qualms about how it's unfair

but this stuff happens all the time and

it's just that we don't benefit from it

so Jason brought up an excellent example

with Tesla the other example just to

remind you guys is during the pandemic

the Federal Reserve stepped in and

started buying commercial corporate

bonds they own a ton of like Ford bonds

so that these things wouldn't default

there's all kinds of action all the time

where the federal government is involved

in private companies my point is if

you're going to be involved have some

Legacy ownership on the back end of it

so that in case this stuff really works

that it's

broadly value creating for more

Americans I think it would create a way

to deescalate this Sensation that a

people are winning and everybody else is

just kind of staying still we should

talk about Stargate and the AI project

because I do think it tees off on one of

the Jan 6 though okay but it does tee

off of one of the other kind of

key things that I heard a lot about in

DC and I know Thomas is passionate about

like I am which is energy electricity

capacity buildout in the United States

because it's critical and like building

AI infrastructure means that we need to

build energy infrastructure all right

and so anyway yeah we'll go we'll go

right to that after we wrap up these um

we wrap up these executive orders and I

too wanted to talk about January 6th uh

just to give people the update here JD

Vance had said that the people who

committed violence on January 6 quote

obviously shouldn't be

pardoned and this's a parade of people

who are on the Republican side who are

coming out against how president Trump

handled this I think you you all know

where I would fall on the side of it

what are your thoughts on this where do

you where you fall on it you know I come

from a family of cops and I feel like

he's betrayed the blue on this one and

you know if there are people who I think

he should have taken his time with this

it is possible that some people had

sentences that were too long uh the

justice

system you know is imperfect in our

country and the pardon power is there I

think specifically to do a very granular

job of looking at each case right and so

I think we have to look at pardon power

generally after what we saw the Biden

family do and now we see Trump doing

this so I think the the pardon power is

not being used as it's intended it's

being used politically Now by both

parties so I'm trying to call balls and

Strikes here but you know as somebody

who's in law enforcement a family that's

in law enforcement and My Chosen career

was to be a cop and an FBI agent and you

know just looking at it it's just

heartbreaking to see people beat cops

and then be Trea as Heroes treated as

Heroes and some of these people are very

dark people you know the the the

oathkeepers and some of these people are

extremely violent and they're coming out

now after this has all been said and

saying that they're going to double down

they're going to buy more guns and that

they're going to get their retribution

and so I think you have to be really

careful with violent people that you

give them you know this coronation and

that they were Justified because they'll

go do more violent things and so I

understand he made this promise to

people I think he should have been very

granular in doing this I totally

understand there could be people who got

sentences that were too long and I would

would have liked to seen him do this

thoughtfully this was not done

thoughtfully I have a certain amount of

Goodwill towards the new president and

this has lowered it I knew that this

would be really important to you so I

took a few minutes to try to collect my

thoughts I've been kind of walking

myself through it since

yesterday this is not an explanation

other than to you Jason my friend about

how I think we got here okay so I just

wanted to take a few minutes to EXP

explain that to you I think that before

you can look at January 6 I think you

got to go back to what happened

during the covid lockdowns and what we

started to see in a bunch of these

liberal cities talking about BLM riots

the BLM riots the antifa riots what

happened in San Francisco Los Angeles

Seattle

Portland the lawlessness that you see in

places like New York the decarceration

movement and I think that what started

to happen

was a

sensation that

for the same weight there were different

measures

so for example if you start to look at

some of the deportations that are

happening now it's really quite shocking

I sent Nick a clip of them Nick you can

just maybe show the first few seconds

but you are talking about some

incredibly incredibly violent offenders

that were just walking randomly down the

street I'm not going back to Haiti one

of those threats is this illegal alien

from Haiti I says he's a gang member

with 17 criminal convictions in recent

years you feel me yo Biden forever bro

thank Obama for everything that he did

for me bro there's more after this but

there was like a rapist that they picked

up in Boston there's a person that was

charged with

assault so there was this sensation

Jason that was building up for a long

time that all of a sudden the law was

being applied in very odd ways where

depending on what you did you would get

adjudicated in totally different ways

based on your political affiliation or

your leaning or based on the desire of a

district prosecutor to go after one

thing or another let me just pause so

that's that's sort of like the thing

that was sort of building and cascading

I do agree with you that I think January

6 is kind of like a stain I I think

there's nothing to be proud of there but

I think what we found out since January

6th is somewhat important I think the

first thing we found out was that there

was a bunch of these folks whose

convictions were very speculative I

think the Supreme Court already ruled

that in June of last year it was like a

63 vote that said at least 350 of these

convictions should probably just be

thrown out so there was one body that

was that then there was a whole bunch of

them where to your point you took a

misdemeanor you trumped it up to a

felony you had all kinds of you know

things where procedural motions were

denied for the defense approved for

prosecution and you had sentences that

didn't match the crime and then you have

a president who frankly was the subject

of lawfare himself so I think that what

would have been better was a more

methodical approach to this I agree with

you but I do think that What's Happening

Here is essentially a moment where we

can close this entire chapter and we can

get back to a focus on observing the law

and adjudicating it equally for

everybody and I think that that's

probably the best way that we can all

deal with this because I think that

there was a bunch of Pardons that were

100% obvious and then there was a bunch

that were just you know had to be done

because the court was perverted in how

they dealt with some of these folks then

there was a small number and I don't

know the exact number to be fair Jason

where these folks did some really bad

stuff now it's also mixed with this

thing where there was a bunch of

informants then there was a bunch of

folks that were the informance stuff

have to wait for that to come out

because that's in conspiracy cor for now

my point is I just went and I collected

that as a way to try to explain to you

how I appreciate you understanding my

passion on it and and want to how we got

here I think it's sort of like I'm well

aware of it yeah I think we got to put a

pin in this and

say both sides should now have enough

experience to say we're going to apply

the law equally to everybody forward

from this moment out let's just go

forward and not look back I think that's

the best thing that we can all do let's

hope I'll just leave you with this the

the proud boy leader

Enrique Terio this is his quote on

getting out I'm happy the president's

focusing not on retribution and focusing

on success but I will tell you that I'm

not going to play by those rules they

need to pay for what they did these are

some seriously bad ombre the proud boys

and the oathkeepers and so don't be

surprised if they do something worse I

want to talk about the citizenship thing

and I just want to just provide a little

color for people I'm sure that there's a

lot of folks that are listening who have

people that work for them that you know

maybe the birthright thing if you came

here illegally and had a child you get

to be a citizen just to be clear this is

going to the Supreme Court and just to

put a little bit of color on it in the

14th Amendment there's this very

important part that says Birthright

citizenship is is applied to people who

are subject to the jurisdiction of

America

and for a long time that phrase was not

really considered in how the Supreme

Court administered the 14th Amendment I

think what this EO did and the lawsuits

that happened almost instantaneously as

a result will now send this back to the

Supreme Court very quickly yeah and

people will opine on what that means so

if it means nothing it means that if you

are here however you're here and you

have a child they're going to be a

citizen of America

if that

qualifier is now part of the

administration and the interpretation of

the 14th Amendment I think what

president Trump has written is what will

happen which is if you are here

illegally it doesn't apply if you are

here under a Visa that necessarily means

you're still subject to the jurisdiction

of somebody else it may not apply but I

think the Supreme Court is going to get

to decide this in pretty short order

okay a couple more issues I want to get

to on the docket sorry let me just make

a quick comment on the um oh sure Dave

go ahead the uh January 6 I I'm I just

generally don't like this power of

Pardon agreed we saw what Biden

did he gave I mean how many thousands

Nick you could pull the number up but

000 8,000

Pardons and I feel like the original

intention of the power of Pardon which

is in the

Constitution was meant to kind of

protect the the civility in the Union at

times of you know we need to kind of

come back together and realign ourselves

and it has been so far abused beyond

that original intention it's almost like

feels like an extraordinary Injustice it

almost gives the president the ability

to rewrite the law that many of the kind

of actions from the executive branch can

simply supersede the actions of the

judicial branch which is really meant to

protect and execute the law of the

nation and I think it's gone too far it

feels like there's a necessary amendment

to address this that these presidents

can come out and preemptively pardon

people for things that might be found in

the future because they're close with

them it has nothing to do with the

original intention if you go back to the

arguments for the pardon being in the

Constitution you can see that Alexander

Hamilton wrote deeply about it in

Federalist Paper number 74 and in that

paper he talked a lot about and

emphasized that the justice system which

is designed to be fair May occasionally

result in overly harsh or unjust

outcomes and the pardon allows for acts

of Mercy to correct these situations

there a lot of these sorts of actions

that we saw happen with with Biden do

not fit the bill for that

definition I will tell you there's a

quote from Federalist Paper 74 from

Hamilton it goes as follows in seasons

of insurrection or Rebellion there are

often critical moments when a well-timed

offer of Pardon to the insurgents or

Rebels May restore the Tranquility of

the Commonwealth so to counter my point

Hamilton's argument is that when the

nation is divided the act of the pardon

may actually help bring the nation back

together as may have been the case with

respect to the January 6th but it may

not necessarily be about or Justice or

Nixon and it may not necessarily be

about justice but is much more about

restoring Tranquility of the union and

allowing the nation to move forward even

even though it may not seem just it may

be the right thing for the nation so I'm

not trying to defend the action or

defend the pardon I really don't like

the act of pardoning as a kind of tool

that's being used in aund different ways

and it certainly seems like it requires

change so yeah and just um programming

note here research note 6,500 people of

those

8,000 seem to be convicted of marijuana

possession uh possession or they were

paron then then then the law should have

been changed and the courts should have

overturned all of those convictions it

does not necessarily need to fall and it

shouldn't fall on the executive branch

to take that action the courts need to

do their job and the legislators need to

do their job I don't disagree but I

think there is some compassion in the

Parton concept for how long do they have

to wait for that yeah how long do you

have to wait for that you know and then

like the people who were you know

convicted of selling dime bags or having

an ounce of weed on them were black and

brown and then all my white friends who

started

weed companies are now taking them

public in Canada so shout out trau all

right let's keep moving here I think we

we we've we did some good job here on

the reconciliation on the Pod where do

we want to go next Stargate project

Stargate Stargate starg Stargate

Stargate and energy yeah Stargate

energy so here we go and I'm gonna go to

to Our Guest here Thomas Thomas anything

on January six are controversial topics

like smoking weed but you want to jump

in on there no okay great sure L your LP

just

breathed hey you're coming on the all-in

podcast when is LPs they they're going

to be so happy but then when when they

hear the j6 they're just going to be

clenched waiting

for to end oh wait hold on my mic went

out oh never mind I missed it okay all

right it was well said honestly I don't

have anything to add you guys you guys

summed it anything on Lauren Sanchez's

uh outfit okay let's continue another

big story from week one we are literally

not even three or four days into this

it's going to be a crazy four years

according to open ai's press release the

Stargate project is a new company which

intends to invest 500 billion over the

next four years building new AI

infrastructure for open AI in the United

States freeberg we got to find out

what's going on here with the Stargate

movie and TV series if they got IP

permission to do this SoftBank and open

AI are the question I mean I'm just

thinking out loud and we have to talk

about where this ranks on your list of

great sci-fi and top 40 top 40 sci-fi

okay right up there with the Star Trek

original series and the Next Generation

SoftBank and openi are the lead partners

with Oracle and mjx also participating

Oracle Nvidia and openai will build and

operate the infrastructure Microsoft is

sort of involved although we'll see

about that Mas yoshian was at the

announcement he's going to be the

chairman however Gavin Baker and Elon

both called cap on X saying they don't

actually have the money Gavin did some

back of the envelope math and of course

as always Sam and Elon have been spicy

in the replies Sam is hurt Elon is

dunking it's it's just their

relationship is so

fluid Microsoft CEO Satia nadela jumped

into my thread with Elon saying he was

good for the 80 Bill and then he was

ready to build other products and

services and that was what was important

what do you think here Thomas is this uh

are you an investor in open AI I guess

let's get that out there or in xai just

so we know where you're coming from here

if you're talking your book but uh I am

an investor in open Ai and uh okay so

there's three points I want to make here

go Point number one going back to the

origins of the of this podcast and you

know sitting watching both Public Market

investors and Venture investors you know

one notable difference is you know I

think Venture invest ERS tend to be very

tribal so if you're in One Tribe You Are

by definition not in another and you

know I think there's a lot of kind of

domain specific reasons for that you

know for me as my legacy as a public

market investor I'm very comfortable

being both you know Pro open Ai and pro

Tesla and Pro X and so I just kind of

caveat that kind of you know as a first

point my second point is can we do a

slight detour on masa for one minute and

I'm curious to get your guys's opinion

but yeah is Mas the goat because when I

started in the growth business I met

with Yuri Milner and he said Thomas you

get in the Hall of Fame if you can have

one deal that gives you a billion dollar

return I.E you know whatever you invest

plus what you take out is a billion

dollars or more and he actually kept a

Tracker in his mind of who had made

those deals and what share he had and

Etc so let's go to masa for one minute

Masa is the hundred billion dollar Club

yeah okay and not only that he's

actually done it twice he did the first

time with SoftBank and Alibaba which at

its peak was a $200 billion win and I

think he ultimately netted like 80 plus

billion out of it so that's one he did

it again with arm that he bought for 30

and now is sitting on a gain of 100 I

think 35 billion and he could have done

it a third time with Nvidia if he hadn't

sold I mean guys there's nobody like him

there's no incredible you're 100% right

you got to give the man flowers he is so

I'll tell you what chath I am never

betting against Masa ever because you

got to give the man credit for what he's

done and so now let's go to kind of open

AI you guys mentioned we we do own some

open AI I am bullish on open AI which I

guess is now a uh

counter Against the Grain kind of view

but guys my point of view on open eye

and the reason I'm so bullish is really

kind of chat GPT and I do think when

open a gets you know we do conf it does

have different businesses right it's got

the model business it has the API

business and then it has the chat GPT

business right and if you look at the

downloads maybe Nick bring up the charts

but it is really interesting to watch

the market share of Chad GPT versus

Google uh Gemini and grock this is both

in the US and international it really is

a dominant kind of franchise right it is

maintaining 80% plus market share you

know J Cal if this was right sharing

right would say wow this this company is

the winner right so to me I think the

the quality of the chat GPT franchise

right I think they disclosed 300 million

weekly actives over a million Enterprise

users it has become a core part of my

own

workflow you know I have it on my phone

I have it on my desktop I use it all the

time I can't even quantify the value

that it brings it's so important for

what it does for me so

and I do think that it just keeps

getting smarter every query that I ask

uh it learns more about me it learns

more about our system so I do think the

chat GPT franchise inside of open AI is

one of the great most successful fastest

growing kind of stories so that's kind

of the underpinning of my kind of open

AI thesis you know on Stargate

specifically look I think the real

question to me isn't whether they have

the 500 billion right because we know

that the 500 billion could come from

Equity it could come from Masa if you

look at Gavin's tweet by the way he does

caveat it right saying that assumes that

Masa doesn't want to sell arm and soft

bank right so I'm not sure just Le up

and use debt correct so you have debt I

I think to me the real question guys is

do we ultimately believe that you can

get an Roi on that 500 billion because

if you can there will be people that

will want to fund it

right you can do data center by data

center you can do it actually at the GPU

level right so the financing is there to

me the the 500 billion doesn't scare me

from an absolute number I think the

question we you know really have to ask

ourselves is do we believe that the

market is big enough that the

opportunity is big enough that investors

can get a return on the 500 billion I

think I think you so to me that's the

real question I think you framed it

perfectly and since you bring up ride

sharing and the 80% there I you know I

really think that's an important thing

to to take a moment to um to settle on

because in that case you didn't have

Uber being challenged by Google