I just got a haircut with a with a new

person she was like I'm like do what you

want this is what she did okay well let

me know who she is jamat and I will'll

go beat her up and get them get your

money back did she feather your bangs

and blow your hair up she did she gave

you a blow didn't she it's starting

already okay no but that's a blow dryer

just yes right she blow dry your hair at

the end she gave me a little yeah that's

not sustainable so you can't tell what

the quality of the haircuts like because

you're never going to do that again you

don't have the skill I've never

blowdried my hair in my life no I

understand that then this is why because

if you get the blow and it looks good in

the blow just say blowout please just

say blowout the forward why what are we

six just grow up you the way you're

saying it you're saying it to provoke a

reaction come on no I'm not such a liar

I love it tell us about what your rules

for blows are what I'm saying is if you

get a haircut and and you get a blow

it's very hard for you to know no but

I'm serious it's very hard for you to

know what it's going to look like the

next day when you take a shower and when

you don't you know blow it it's true oh

you're saying the self blow can't match

the stylus blow it's just important when

you get a haircut with a new stylist or

a hairdresser or a barer yes you cannot

let them blow you he's not happy with

the ending got it it was an unhappy

ending because when you blow yourself

shth which people have accused you of

blowing yourself on this very program

when you blow yourself it's not going to

come out the way it did it won't be as

fabulous every time I've blown myself

it's been

perfect let your winners

ride Rainman

David and instead we open source it to

the fans and they've just gone

[Music]

crazy all right everybody welcome back

to the all in podcast I'm your host jpow

from Japan here JP cutting turns in the

Seco and at Ean I and we have an

incredible lineup today as always the

chairman dictator chamath is here to

reign supreme how are you doing brother

good how are you what are you wearing

exactly I'm just wearing my kimono as I

want to do uh here on the all-in podcast

why are you speaking in Elizabethan

English I just decided in 2025 I'm going

to live my best life and I'm going to do

everything anybody ask me to do

something I'm saying yes oh I'm I'm GNA

ask you a bunch of stuff next weekend

then I got so many ideas I got a list

I'm gonna ask you to do all sorts of

it's epic I'm doing it yeah okay so uh

it's a and uh yeah I'm I'm over the moon

right now and then I'll be going to the

inauguration to see all my

friends and celebrate the big Trump

Victory and tape an episode there with

us of course David freeberg your

resident sulan of Science and not a

moment too soon we have so much to talk

about what's the background here

those are some dead trees

with ma Fuji in the background yeah

that's a c basically Jason cissa

landscape while you've been um

gallivanting and being a diletant your

original adopted home state is burning

to the ground ah yes I know about this I

got off the ski lift and I saw this

after I had posted like oh my life is

amazing and I was like oh my God you

know you can totally and everybody

replied like are you the and I'm like oh

my Lord this is unbelievable we'll

obviously talk about that so then you

promoted the Tweet yes I put $500 behind

it to boost to try to get my ratings up

no I actually literally deleted it

because I I posted a and I never do that

but I posted a video where I was like oh

my God it's incredible and I was like

you know what this is the wrong time for

it so a little Grace there folks and I

am so happy to have here on Allin Idol

the one the only my good friend cyan

banister no our good friend she's my

good friend before you guys met her so

sure she's ours but I've been friends

with her longer so my good friend Sayan

B and our good friend and our bestie

let's just leave it at that it doesn't

have to be a competition for who Sayan

likes best we'll ask her to rate at the

end of the episode say welcome to the

program yeah thanks for having me I

appreciate it it's nice to see everyone

Jason you want to tell people about

sence background yeah do an epic rant on

cence Epic I mean c and I fought in the

Clone worse together it was a long time

ago but uh she's a technologist

self-made individual who then decided

she would start writing small Angel

checks about 14 years ago literally the

same year I did and uh myself cyan

profoundly better than you let's just be

she's not incredible yes of course well

we'll get into it and uh cyan and I

would uh 14 years ago I guess we would

meet startup companies together and host

little events where we get together and

and take pitches and we invested in a

couple companies together and it worked

out very nicely for everyone involved so

yeah we're in a couple of companies

together yeah density density we were on

the board together for a little bit so

that was fun a little bit Yeah Yeah

Thumbtack Thumbtack actually Thumbtack

density and Uber I all discovered

through you what's which one was Uber I

got to check my oh I don't think I don't

think let me check my Google sheet here

I didn't know I invested in Uber let me

check I have to confirm that oh yeah I

did I but I uh at one of these events I

introduce Sayan to Uber that's true

right so found all three of those deals

at your event so that was really great

oh yeah well thanks that's a that's a

very nice let me try cyan is a prolific

angel investor correct I just said that

she was a part of Founders fund oh right

yeah she runs a seed fund called long

journey Ventures okay some of her hits

include SpaceX andil density Postmates

Niantic which is the makers of Pokemon

go

and Jason's favorite startup

Uber yeah it's been a good run it's been

a good run and also I'll just add a

wonderful human being and if you ever

had the chance to hang out and talk for

a couple of hours cyan would be one of

those people that you put right at the

top of the list I will Pro I will

promote sayan's interview with Tim

Ferris a couple weeks ago I randomly

turned it on I was in the car driving

home and then I stopped in my driveway

and kept listening I was just telling

cyan like it was a fantastic what was it

about two hours two and a half hour

interview three well it was four hours

he cut it to three and a half yeah and

then I had to drive again I listened to

the it's it and I was like excited to

get back to it which never happens for

me listening to long form interviews

like that like it was phenomenal so I

recommend it to everyone why did it hit

you so deeply couple things one C is an

incredible Storyteller like the the way

she describes her experiences her

history her life

beautiful she talks in kind of I think a

deep persuasive way about some of the

things that have shaped her her uh

business investing as well as kind of

spirituality which she mentioned earlier

which is not something that you'll

typically and you're like wait where did

this conversation just pivot to and then

you go down this whole other path with

her and you go on the journey with her I

just thought it was great so all over

the place it was great beautiful

recommend it to everyone to get to know

cyan oh thanks can I have you all is my

professional cheerleading squad from now

on this pretty awesome I don't like

talking about myself and this is great I

love it yeah well it's uh it's true

Sayan was voted most humble in our Angel

Investing group and I was a close second

so I almost won most humble in group

more work to do being humble I'm gonna

get you a t-shirt called the humblest no

no you have to borrow it from Cham he's

got he's had it for the last 10 years

seven or eight years ago Jason

approached C and I and said hey guys

Harvey WI has asked me to make a show

yes true story it's true story here's

how he asked me to do it in his room it

was really it's a true

story take it down and cyan myself and

Jason

went to some place in the city and we

taped a taped episode I have it what is

it called the first we taped the NBC

pilot for the accelerator or the

incubator so I had been

approached and did a pilot for NBC

called the acceler Ator and they spent

like a half million dollars on this and

you guys came on and it came out great

and it was just going to you know follow

me around ding it was very awkward

because afterwards they approached cyan

and I to do the show without when we

without Jason and so we had to we had to

decide who needs enemies we decided our

friendship was more important exactly I

don't know if I ever told you guys the

story but like literally they were like

figuring out where to put this and what

time slot they were like we're going to

do it in the summer sum because we're

trying to get some summer programming

going that's what we're going to test St

and then Harvey Weinstein turns out to

be an horrible monster and the whole

thing gets canceled and anything that

was anywhere within a hundred miles of

Harvey wiing got canceled including my

failed or forgotten reality TV show all

right let's get to more important things

there is an unbelievable tragedy

occurring in Los Angeles H as we're

speaking devastating wildfires basically

a formed to ring around La the most

destructive of which has been the

Palisades fire and which has stretched

into Malibu

obviously and 15,000 Acres or so have

been burned in that area thousands of

homes maybe 2,000 homes here are some

images they're just devastating and we

have a lot of friends in this area and

the area you're seeing on fire if you

don't know the Topography of Los Angeles

is north of Santa Monica you have

Palisades and then Malibu and obviously

east of the 405 you have things that

you've heard of like Bair and Brentwood

this area is part of a

mountain area called the Santa Monica

Mountains and they get very dry and

there's a phenomenon which we'll get

into called the Santa and winds that

blow really really strongly and a

perfect storm has happened where

thousands of homes and tragically five

lives and I'm sure there'll be more

unfortunately have burn down this video

of driving down

PCH if you've ever driven PCH the

Pacific Coast Highway these are 10 20

$50 million homes that are literally on

the Pacific Ocean the most coveted homes

in Los Angeles are not belir and

brenwood you might think that because

you hear them on TV but really if you

were an incredibly successful person you

would aspire to live in the Pacific

Palisades just west of bretwood and just

south of Malibu or Malibu many

celebrities live there many Executives

Etc and these homes are gone thousands

and thousands of homes it's this is

turned into the ultimate rosock test on

social media where people are projecting

into this tragedy which tragically

occurs every year to varying degrees and

maybe every 20 30 years it's an acute

situation we'll get into that in a

moment but looking at this

absolute just devast stating loss of

property and lives the lives could have

been a lot worse freeberg from a

scientific perspective maybe we'll start

there when you look at these wildfires

extreme weather global warming and you

look at this situation is that where

your mind goes or in this raw shck test

of how you feel about these kind of

tragedies and how you interpret it do

you go somewhere else the incompetence

of California's government

Dei Ukraine I mean everybody body is

superimposing on this natural disaster

whatever

their pet issues are where do you come

to when you look at this I don't think

that those are exclusive okay I think

that you can have had both incompetent

planning and execution by

leadership as well as have kind of

uncontrollable circumstances that

management and planning weren't

necessarily going to solve and I I'll

kind of talk about a couple of these

points real quick first of all like we

talked about when the hurricane hit a

couple of months ago remember and as you

guys know I have an office or facility

out in Nashville so we were exposed to

the flooding circumstances and we talked

about the the frequency of of that sort

of an event having been such a rare

occurrence becoming more common

similarly we're seeing more frequent

high high wind events in California

flooding events in California and hot

events in California if you look at this

link I sent out Nick in terms of the

total precipitation over this current

what's called rain

season the Southern California region is

basically at a you know call it 0% of

normal so this is Southern California

you can see that third column that's the

percent of normal rainfall that has been

experienced there's been zero rain in

these regions so everything is primed to

be very dry and then you get the Santa

Ana winds 100 mph winds no matter matter

how much underbrush you clear out no

matter how many trees you remove if

there's some Embers in the air there's a

100 mph wind that is going to create a

fire hurricane and a lot of homes are

going to get caught on fire so it's very

hard to kind of just pin the blame

solely on not doing underbrush clearing

not doing removal of trees those should

have happened they didn't happen that

was wrong that was bad policy but it

doesn't excuse the fact that there's a

natural event that happened here that

seems to be occurring with greater

frequency the I'll kind of pivot to if

we want to get there now maybe we'll

talk about that in a minute is kind of

the economic and the policy issues with

respect to the Department of Insurance

because okay let's get to that after we

go through maybe a little bit of the

quick reactions here I think that's

where that's where there's going to be

real pain and Devastation and that's the

biggest economic consequence is the role

that insurance has played in all this

stuff which we'll get to in a minute

yeah okay so chamath I think table

Stakes we all agree global warming

extreme weather depending on what degree

you believe in it there plays some

Factor here and this is something that

has reoccurred over and over again in

this specific re region but on social

media we're seeing a lot of other

interpretations of this event maybe your

thoughts on some of the other

interpretations and then where when you

look at it what do you start to think

about preventing this in the future or

maybe who's responsible what's your

general take on what we've seen the last

week I mean I'm not very sympathetic to

the there were 100 m hour winds not

because it's not true but there's been

enough modeling that we know that these

kinds of outlier weather events are

happening in greater and greater

frequency Nick maybe you can find this

and just put it up here but remember

that crazy apocalyptic video of that

exact same part of Southern California

in

2018 burning to the ground can we just

look at that all of us collectively

because that was six years ago this is

not like it was a distant memory from a

hundred years ago we knew in 2018 that

these Thea pass so this this idea that

we were just Lolly gagging around and

got caught off guard by 100 mph winds to

me is completely not an acceptable

answer we knew in 2018 that these things

could happen we knew across the rest of

the United States that these outlier

weather events were happening in greater

and greater frequenc

if you weren't sure you saw most of the

insurance companies try to dump Southern

California homes fire coverage three

months before this event happened so all

this data was in the realm of the

knowable and then when you doubleclick

and you get into a little bit more of

the details there's a level of

incompetence bordering on criminal

negligence here that we need to get to

the bottom of so I'll just give you a

couple of facts in the 19 50s the

average amount of Timber so wood that

was harvested in California was around 6

billion board feet per

year in the intervening 70 years that

shrank to about 1.5 billion board feet

and so you'd say okay well that's a 75%

reduction we must be making a very

explicit stance on conservation it turns

out that that's not entirely true

because what it left behind was near

nearly 163 million dead trees dead like

gone and so you would say well those

things should have been removed and the

problem is that then there's this

California Environmental Quality act

squa hopefully I'm pronouncing this

right and a whole bunch of these other

regulatory policies that limited the

ability of local governments and fire

management to clear these dead trees and

vegetation and I think that that's a

really big deal and when you double

click on that here's where you find the

real head

scratcher

okay multiple bills AB 2330 ab1

1951 AB

2639 all rejected by the Democrat

controlled legislator or worse vetoed by

Governor Nome that would have Exempted

these Wildfire prevention projects from

squa and other pering issues then there

were other bills to try to minimize the

risk of fires by burying power lines

underground SP 103 as an example went

nowhere didn't even get to the

governor's desk so I'm just a little bit

at a loss to explain these two bodies of

data one is everybody can see that these

events are happening Southern California

lived through this exact type of moment

just six years

ago all the bills that are meant to

prevent this

are blocked or

veto this is the ultimate expression of

negligence and

incompetence okay cyan you've uh heard

uh jamath and freeberg take here some

amount of incompetence some amount of

hey this keeps occurring and there might

be some global warming that is

contributing to it what do you take away

sure from the situation I agreee with

freedberg in moth you know it's it's a

it's a lot of everything but I also

think think that to add to the

prevention part you know other than

clearing out underbrush and and trees

and things like that you know we we

don't build things in the state of

California in a way that houses should

be built when you know that there are

fires like this so for example we have

more wooden roofs than we really should

have we should really evaluate our

materials that we're building things out

of but we also have you know down in

elag gundo you know this is a company

that I invested in Rain Maker we have

the ability now to Cloud seed and do

preventative measures to actually make a

region have more water and I don't

understand why we're not looking into

things like this that could have

prevented you know we knew that this

storm was coming we knew that these

winds were coming you know Southern

California shut power down I have a farm

down there we still don't have power

because they knew that most of these

fires are started by pg& or down power

lines and so they proactively shut

everybody down and we're still running

on generators and if you notice there's

no fires down there but they also have

100 m hour

winds yeah and you're not seeing it and

there's plenty of mountain ranges and

dryness there you know avocado Farms are

basically just sitting

fuel so I do think it's a combination of

all of those things and competence is

definitely one of

them yeah and I I actually lived right

next door to this area for a long time

in Brentwood and to your point about

roofs it seemed silly and a lot of

these can seem silly when you first

mention them which Trump looked let's

face it the way he says things sometimes

is very colorful and when he said listen

you're not raking like people in

wherever he said it Scandinavia Finland

are raking the forest and he was

absolutely 100% correct on that maybe it

sounded bombastic or silly when the way

he said it but the truth is in uh Tahoe

where we just were over the holidays

people are clearing underbrush when I

lived in Los Angeles people lived in the

Hollywood Hills would get a fine if they

didn't clear it but there are mountain

ranges that nobody owns and when you

showed that Suppa to pass that's the 405

going past the Getty Center that area

has got to be cleaned by the the city

and the government and maybe they

weren't doing it as much look at this

this is apocalyptic yeah so I I know

this passed very well because I would

drive through it J what what did

California learn from this what did gav

Nome Implement based on what happened

here what did the city of Los Angeles

based on what happened here I want to

just specifically know the answer to

those two questions yeah and I think

that's going to be a big part of this

breakdown after this happens because in

a lot of these cases you might lose a

home or two but you haven't had this

kind of wholesale destruction in a while

and uh when I lived in brenwood I had a

shake roof that's a fancy way of saying

uh shingles wood shingles and they would

bake in the Sun and I love this roof but

my neighbors who in brenwood were all 70

80 years old and I was right on Sunset

Boulevard and I could look up from my

house and see the place you just showed

which is the Getty Center and the and

the Sova pass on the 405 and the um and

Sunset

Boulevard I was only allowed cyan to

replace 30% of my roof at a time you

couldn't replace it and put shake roofs

on you could only like maintain it

because in 1961 there was the B A and

Brentwood fires and these fires you want

to talk about like in in in memory chath

this one jaaja Gabor and tons of

celebrities lost their homes as well

this one was started because of this

Santa Anna winds and somebody was just

burning a rubbish pile I think it was

some construction workers were burning

that they said to me the neighbors do

you know about the B air fire you know

about the Brentwood fire you got to get

rid of that shake roof you got to get

rid of that shake roof when my daughter

was born the the uh roofer said to me

let's put composits on I put composits

on and he said what do you want to do

with the sprinkler system and I said

there's a sprinkler system in my little

one story wrench house he said yeah I

said I've never seen it and he showed it

to me it was on the roof people were so

scared after that 62 fire they were

putting

these on the roof and now you cannot

have would roofs have been banned you

were grandfathered in I was part of that

but there was a lot of PTSD from that

and now I do think there's going to have

to be some lessons learned and let's get

to where some folks online are pointing

to maybe not having great priorities and

maybe focusing on things that are not as

important as the taxpaying citizens a

lot of tweets I don't know how people

feel about them about Dei about who's

running the fire department Etc did you

have any thoughts on that freedberg I'll

I mean look we we one of the things I

wanted to talk about was the doi's role

the Department of Insurance role in what

I think will ultimately

be creating a pretty significant

economic consequence here from this sort

of an

event I don't but I'll I'll answer your

question okay I don't think that the

mission of any public service organiz

ation should be to meet Dei metrics I

think the mission of that public service

organization should be to serve the

public and I think that those Dei

metrics should not be a priority when

serving the public is the objective the

best ability to serve the public should

be the objective and that's it and I'll

state that really clearly okay so

obviously the the fire chief and La is

getting a lot of attention whether or

not that prioritization of Dei metrics

took away from the interest and the

focus in preparing for major disasters I

don't know there have been some

interviews over the last day or two just

to be fair where she has claimed that

they asked for more money to to they

would not be able to be prepared for

major disasters if the budget cut took

place that was proposed by bass that

budget cut did take place and so the the

fire chief has said that she asked for

Budget to make this the preparation for

this ORD of event and she lost it and so

I don't want to just say hey she's to

blame she's to blame because she was

focused on Dei but I will separately say

that I think that creating Dei as a

mission for an organization that's

supposed to serve the public interest

makes no sense this is an important one

James Woods obviously the uh the famous

actor who lost his home in Pacific

Palisades has been going on a bit of a

rant about Christine Crowley she is LA's

fire chief she also happens to be a

lesbian and has made a priority and and

done a number of talks on trying to

increase diversity inside of the fire

department she also just with a bit of

research is one of the top performing

firefighters a paramedic an engineer a

fire inspector a captain a battalion

chief an assistant chief Fire Marshal

Deputy Chief and when she took the

firefighter exam in the late 90s she

scored in the top 50 out of 16,000 she

seems eminently qualified there has been

a massive pile on Attack on her and you

know how it is on x and other social

networks where people are really tweaked

about Dei that they're kind of putting

the blame on her what are your thoughts

of this Dei angle chouth I don't think

this is to blame okay if all of a sudden

because of

Dei 70% were physically incapable of

carrying out the task and that's why

these fires grew maybe you could make

the claim that it is a Dei problem I do

agree with freeberg that the thing that

these public institutions need to do a

better job of is being very clear about

what their Nord star is I think the

nordstar for the fire department is to

save people's lives and put out fires I

think the nordstar for the police

service should be to save people's lives

and to hold criminals responsible and

get them off the

streets and you should hire the people

that allow you to do that job the best

the thing to keep in mind is that there

were probably 20 or 30 people

interviewed to be fire chief it's not

her fault that she was

selected the real question is what was

she mandated to focus on once she got

the job and I think what you see in all

of these interviews is I don't think

that she all of a sudden after growing

up through the fire service had this Dei

bent I think typically what happens is

it becomes an Institutional

directive it guides your compensation it

guides your recognition and so you do it

it's sort of what Charli Monger says

show me the incentive and I'll show you

the outcome the entire public service is

riddled with this the entire private

service is riddled with this which is

that we've lost the script about what is

important so it's yet another example

she's probably quite a capable person

who if was just allowed to focus on

fighting fires and saving people's lives

would probably do a good job but if you

had to add all these other things that

are not Germaine to that task

then people will get frustrated and

projected onto her it seems like a lot

of projecting going on here jamath I

agree all of that said though I think

you got to go back to how did these

fires start yeah how did they grow out

of control and again I think that these

winds didn't come out of nowhere in the

sense that they caught everybody off

guard this has happened before that area

has gone through this exact moment yes

there were laws that were proposed they

were vetoed okay so that even if you

could have controlled it then you see

certain developers like Rick Caruso who

were able to protect the buildings that

he was responsible for because he took

proactive and protective measures could

those proactive and protective measures

not been taken more broadly through LA

county of course they could have why

were they not and here what we're seeing

on the screen is recuso Village let me

ask a very specific question how much

money and we know the answer to this how

much money did the government of

California

spend poorly as it turns out on

homelessness it was about $21 billion

and illegal immigrants I don't know what

the final number is there but I suspect

in the tens of billions if you I think

if you reappropriated those dollars to

these kinds of protective mechanisms in

these areas what would the outcome have

been maybe there still would have been a

fire maybe there would have been damaged

but it's hard for me to believe it would

have been as bad as it is right now yeah

I think what you're getting to here is

we can confirm lesbians didn't cause the

Santa and and a wins to cause these

fires obviously but there is an issue

that I think many people in the public

especially in California who voted for

this very leftist liberal ideology are

now starting to realize is hey wait a

second what are the priorities here cyan

what are we focused on and what should

we be focused on and it's very easy to

be focused on Dei and maybe things that

aren't important homelessness and move

budget there but at the same time they

wouldn't give her $17 million they cut

the the fire budget she tried to fight

it well that that's not clear now

there's now the counter narrative is

that she actually got an extra 50 Jason

okay so we're we're in a breaking news

environment so we'll see what the truth

winds up being here but Sayan I think

the point Remains the Same here which is

is prioritization and what we focus on

out of whack in California oh without a

doubt I think diversity is good unless

that's all you have and I'll just

simplify it like that but and I think

it's very sad that somebody could be

very qualified and be in a position and

we now have to question whether or not

they were hired because of

Dei and then it comes down to

prioritization like when you're dealing

with a organization like a fire

department whose main job is to protect

the public and put out fires and save

people any amount of time as we know is

a valuable precious resource that's

being spent

trying to roll out these programs or you

know it goes beyond just who you hire

it's even they the thought police of how

you think you know it's so pervasive

within an organization that you you are

you die from the bureaucracy of it and

if if anything went wrong with the EI it

was that they didn't have their their

eye on the prize of of fighting fires

and instead you know they're focusing on

something that truly doesn't matter so

you can be as diverse as you want to be

and not be able to put out of fire and

then it just really doesn't matter right

because you're not training people

you're not spending money on things that

matter you're not having the discussions

that matter and that's where I think

that does fall apart and it it has a

place there but you know I go back to

what chamama said though you know it

really comes down to prevention and

learning from our past we seem to have a

very short-term memory and we forget

very quickly because we rebuild and it

looks pretty again and everybody

forgets and we just don't have the

ability as a society really to think

long anymore and uh that's a real

problem and I think we should learn from

this fire I really hope that what comes

out of this is a shift in political

leanings in this in this state you know

I think more moderates are going to come

to their senses and um as we've seen

with the election and the outcome and I

think the state might shift some and we

might actually get some policies that

you're so right you're so right I mean

when are we going to get tired of all

this late stage progressivism it's like

these Litany of excuses the people that

are in charge have failed us yet again

exactly we have wasted so much money on

so many things that don't move the

needle and then the things that they

needed to do they didn't do and then

they point the finger at climate change

it's a joke at a certain point you have

to wonder are we using politics and and

the purpose of it to make people's lives

better and to have a high function

Society or is it a way to fge your

signal or to you know share your

opinions on things yeah and and I think

what people are starting to realize is

you know in an acute situation whether

it's our budget deficit whether it's

schools whether it's safety from climate

you know or non-climate induced

disasters you you do need to have

competence and this is the Rick Caruso

is such a competent executive that when

he ran for office there the fact that he

didn't get that job is just absolutely

crazy and the you saw the mayor come in

and she wouldn't even address she

wouldn't answer any questions from the

Press not even thoughts and prayers or

you know we're thinking of this or we're

going to get it done it it just seems

like we're hiring non-executives to work

in functions that should be high

performing Executives this is an

operational role let me maybe bring

something that ties these three things

together but it builds on critically

what cyan

said there are so many people here that

are good hardworking people that lost

their homes

for many of these folks it could

be the most single and only financially

securing asset that they

have for other

people those that are family age they

have kids now beyond the financial

damage that are totally displaced where

will these folks go there was a comment

by Adam Cora commentary where he said

the real test to science point will be

how they internalize and metabolize this

because it now affects them personally

and they have to go and wait 3 years to

BU building permits to rebuild now

that's assuming that they can even get a

reasonable amount of insurance coverage

which touches freeberg

point this is the real tragedy that is

the actual tragedy multiplied by 120,000

or 200,000

families and the real question is how

much of that was completely avoidable

and I think there is a reason amount of

it that could have been that's what

really sucks and that's where you cannot

take your finger off the scale and

forget and yeah when it lands on your

doorstep quite literally here they are

not going to be able having been in this

exact area I can tell you when you try

to pull a permit to do anything as I was

explaining with my roof the regulations

are deep and expensive and timec

consuming I don't believe the C we

talked about the California Coastal

Commission recent episode freeberg what

are the chances that the California

Coastal commission even allows these

people to build those homes in those

locations on PCH fredberg I was talking

to chamat about this earlier today

because the California Coastal

commission was created by the voters

directly in

1976 and that commission has Authority

that exceeds legislative action so um

you would have to basically go back my

understanding is you'd have to go back

to a state vote to resend the powers of

the California Coastal commission so

they have effective complete authority

over deciding what does or doesn't get

built on the coast because their

objective is to preserve the coast for

the use of the community and restore it

to its natural habitat so anytime

there's a request or a permit request it

can take two decades three decades

sometimes to get anything approved if

they ever approve it at all and so the

California Coastal commission any

property that touches the the the beach

front in California they have this kind

of you know God level authority over and

they're basically all political

appointees that sit on the commission to

my question freeberg what are the

chances they allow the millionaires on

Pacific Coast Highway in Malibu to

rebuild those homes or do you think they

slow roll it and those people are all

5060 70 years old they'll never be able

to rebuild their homes Cali just slow

roll this and say you know what nature

returned it to its natural state I think

we should talk about insurance this is a

great segue yeah yeah this perfect segue

yeah this is the key point I wanted to

say about insurance so going forward

yeah all of this property that sits in

climate sensitive zones or weather

sensitive zones whatever you want to

call it like we've talked about on the

coast of California of Florida and

hurricane centers and tornado centers

where the frequency of loss is going up

they're priced as if the frequency of

loss is what it used to be which is like

let's say you buy a home for a million

dollars and the probability of your home

getting wiped out by a natural disaster

is a one in a, your kind of situation so

you have a one in a thousand chance of

your home getting wiped out each year so

your price for insurance on that million

doll home should be about 10,000 bucks a

year one tenth of 1% so 10,000 bucks a

year for a million doll home sounds

expensive but it is what you have to pay

for homeowners insurance but now let's

say that the probability shifts to one

in 20 years so now you've got a one in

20 year probability of your home getting

wiped out are you going to pay 5% of

your home value no and uh if if you have

a $10 million home are you going to pay

$500,000 a year for property insurance

no now what's happened is the insurance

companies have these models they're

called cat models or catastrophe models

it used to be two companies one was

called RMS the other one was called

equat and I used to work in this

business so I know it pretty well and

then all the the companies started

building in-house models and now there's

startups that make models and these

models have shown that there are

increased probability of complete loss

in a region because of the increased

probability of these crazy weather

events happening and so the price of

insurance should go up here's the

problem there are 5050 State Insurance

Commissioners in the US in order to sell

insurance in a state you have to have

the insurance carrier and the policy

approved in that state and the states

determine what rate or what price you

can charge for insurance so the State

Insurance commissions have a couple of

goals number one is to keep all the

insurance companies solvent so they want

to you know check the financials of all

the insurance companies make sure

they're not writing too many policies

that they won't be able to pay out the

second thing is they want to make sure

that the insurance company aren't

ripping consumers off so they have

control over the rates and they don't

want the rates to go up too much in any

given year so they're controlling rates

and keeping them down and then the third

is they're supposed to make sure that

consumers have access to insurance and

the third is a very hard thing to do if

you're trying to keep companies solvent

you can't write too many policies and

you're saying hey you can't raise prices

and meanwhile the probability of losses

gone up so the insurance carriers are

like what choice do I have so earlier

this year a State Farm pulled out of

Palisades they stopped writing fire

insurance and Palisades they canel 1600

policies in the exact neighborhood that

just burned down what about the timing

of that freeberg that was three months

before six months before Happ six months

before but yeah but it's not it it seems

crazy but as you know in Tahoe a lot of

the policies have been cancelled in um

it's just crazy timing it's it's a crazy

coincidence and remember in Wine Country

we had a lot of wipeouts all of Santa

Rosa was burnt out a few years ago you

guys remember that and so they started

pulling out of there so aot lot of the

carriers are generally pulling out of

California because when they go up to

the DOI and they're like hey we need to

raise rates by we need to double the

price of insurance we need to Triple the

price of insurance this is now a one in

20 year event the Department of

Insurance says no no no we're not going

to let you charge that much to Consumers

and then the carrier is like okay we got

no choice and they exit the market here

you can see right here 1, 1600 policies

canceled this has been a big driver is

the Department of Insurance has made it

very difficult to find this free market

outcome but at the end of the day one of

three parties are going to end up eating

the cost of the change in probability of

loss that has occurred it's either the

homeowner because they're going to end

up losing the value of their home in a

loss or they're going to end up needing

to write down the value of their home

when they sell it to someone who will

take on that risk which means the price

has to come down or number two is the

insurers and there's not enough

Insurance Capital out there to cover all

these losses so all these insurers would

go bankrupt or the third is the taxpayer

one of those three is going to end up

eating the loss that's about you know

the answer you know the answer taxpayer

taxpayer yeah somebody is going to Lobby

somebody but hey we're sitting here chth

in the age of Doge and saying hey let's

make the government smaller in fact Dave

you and I were talking about at some

point Gangs of New York and the fire

departments being oh yeah totally great

crazy timing that we were talking about

that two or three weeks before this

happened but right you know when we look

at making government smaller well that

means that these kind of situations

would put citizens more on their own so

let's counterbalance what you think

chamath about who should be responsible

we all espouse I think free market

ideology on this program and as

Executives and in what we do every day

should the people who own these homes

going forward who decide to rebuild them

here have to pay you know 5 10% of their

value of home every year should their

home prices collapse because it's too

hard to build there and should the free

market take over this risk or should it

constantly be put on the other 329

million Americans who are going to have

to be the brunt of what happens to the

million people affected in this area

well I mean sh's a very strong word

the cap on the insurance reimbursement

is about 3 million is my understanding

David you can tell me if I'm wrong but I

think I think that's right the houses in

the Palisades are anywhere from call it

1 million on the low end to maybe 40 or

50 million on the high end average is

four and a half in that yeah I was about

to say there's nothing for a million

these days yeah it's got to be three or

four minimum right but the median is

probably more instructive which is

probably seven or eight million so yes

yeah my point is that folks will get

less than half their home value back

they're going to have to come up with

some amount of money to then rebuild but

the cost of rebuilding a 7,000 foot

house in the Pacific Palisades is

probably at least a thousand a square

foot so that's 7 million of cash exactly

so now so now all of a sudden these

people have to come up with a lot of

money exactly and that's post tax money

so you might as well double it because

California is just so egregiously

burdensome in terms of taxes so the

individual homeowner is not going to be

in a position to rebuild

I think that the liabilities of the

insurance claims are going to be so

massive that the state's going to look

to the federal government to build them

out my parents just got evacuated I

gotta call them and just there there's a

new

fire literally right uh there's a new

fire called Kenneth fire it just took

off and it's it's at their house so just

give me I'll be back okay no do your

thing oh wow gosh almighty we were

talking about hey maybe less government

hey maybe spending less now the same

group of people maybe who were saying

hey we need to spend less and reduce the

size of government or saying hey well

why isn't California more prepared well

being prepared obviously means more

money and and and more taxes so you have

now these two competing ideologies here

but to the question of who's responsible

it is economically going to make no

sense to rebuild unless you can get that

insurance it is a coveted place to live

but because of the construction costs

have gone abs abolutely

parabolic in California because of

regulations you're talking about $4

million in income to build a $7 million

house and maybe you're just better off

selling the lot for a million dollars

and letting it be somebody else's

problem going for and just taking the

two or three or four million dollar loss

who should pay for on a go forward

basis underwriting these homes yeah I

mean a lot of these people paid for I

was reading stories of 30 some odd years

into Insurance thinking that you know

house wouldn't burn down and then of

course it gets canceled two weeks before

their house burns down and then the one

time they need it they don't have it and

part of this is I mean a huge part of it

is uh what freedberg was talking about

are the regulators and so the free

market solution is the only solution if

you look at I have an investment in a

company called kin insurance and they

specialize in direct to

Consumer Insurance for areas that are

plagued with natural disaster so their

number one state out of the 11 that they

serve as Florida followed by

Texas which you know has tornadoes and

things like that and how they're able to

get into these places and do insurance

is the pricing is according to you know

the construction of your home and all of

these various things and also weather

models and using data science things

that are not allowed in California if

you can believe it or not so you're not

allowed to use a weather model to price

in you know your decision- making for

insurance in this state and that just

doesn't make a lot of sense you know you

should be rewarded if you put the

resources and time into your home home

to to make it weatherproof uh fireproof

fireproof I mean you know even

earthquake resistant right this is more

regulations that were layer on here to

try to create equality you know and and

the fact is it's now working against the

system in Tahoe to your point they gave

us explicit instructions around homes

put Stone and Pebbles around your home

cut the trees and bushes down around

your homes do this over here you know

your when you do that and if you do that

which might cost $10,000 a home you it

would keep these from jumping from one

to the other in most fire situations

freeberg your back is everything

okay uh it's not okay listening to your

you know 70 something year old parents

evacuate their home and try and pack

their cars with all their stuff in a

matter of minutes while a fire creeps on

their home is a pretty devastating thing

to listen to yeah but are they sayfe

they're trying to get out of the house

they're throwing everything in the car

there's evacu if I'm looking at the

video right now the fire is like right

by their house it's insane it's

literally like blocks away from their

house God this is nuts this is the house

I grew up in in La I'm so sorry oh man

gosh blocked away and I'm like you know

what do you say to them like throw all

the photo albums in the car is what I

said throw the photo like just grab the

frame photos my mom's trying to grab all

her like that's the number one thing

that everybody misses and is mentioned

and interview that I've seen is uh

photographs like grab all the photos

grab all the ALB she's like you know

she's grabbing her jewelry and stuff and

I'm like grab the photos like we're the

last generation that will be thinking

about this issue of grabbing the photos

yeah it's fascinating I just want to say

like you know as we wrap up this segment

you know obviously we're thinking about

everybody there this is

complex this is not the fault of a

lesbian firefighter or the Ukraine or

any of these other issues this is

leadership and nature and preparedness

so there are big issues around climate

change you want to believe him you don't

want to believe him fine put that aside

but I can tell you that when I saw Karen

bass get off that

flight play the clip Nick of Karen bass

here because it's a short enough clip

that we can play it here for the

audience I'm I'm assuming you all three

of you saw this clip of her being

absolutely unwilling to answer a single

goddamn question about what's going on

this is the opposite of leadership just

10 seconds of this AB an apology for

being abent while their homes were

burning do you regret cutting the fire

department budget by millions of dollars

Madam

mayor have you nothing to say today back

upate it have you absolutely nothing to

say to the citizens

today disgraceful she in shock I mean I

I have zero sympathy you took the

leadership job I don't give a if

you're in shock you're a leader you just

you you sold yourself as the leader that

you were to service these people and you

don't have the dignity the the the honor

to just answer the questions it is the

that is absolutely the worst leadership

I've ever seen Under Fire let me ask you

guys a question disgraceful what do we

do you fire them all and you vote for

Rick cruso you vote for executives who

know what the they're doing and know

what to do in a crisis because they've

been under Fire before because they've

run a business before because they've

seen hit the fan this person I don't

know her I don't know her history but

I'll be totally honest like I wouldn't

trust her literally to pick up my lunch

if she can't answer one or two goddamn

questions and give a plating answer to a

reporter hey it's an intense situation

we're working as hard as we can she

can't even say two goddamn words to the

people who voted her in and for anybody

who voted for this level of accomp

reminds me of exactly what we went

through in San Francisco and I was

living there in the Bay Area when you

put someone like chesa bu in or London

bre or this entire clown car Aaron Peter

all these disgraceful disg Marist

Marxist lunatics who would rather virtue

signal Dopey Dean Preston the whole lot

of them you vote them out and you vote

in Executives and it doesn't mean a

republican executive it doesn't mean a

Democrat executive it means an executive

who's run something in their life before

whether it's Bloomberg whether it's

Trump whether it's ruso it doesn't

matter their ideology it matters their

effectiveness and if you vote for

ineffective people you're going to get

situations like this over and over and

over again so use your brains and vote

for executives who've done something in

the world this is why I've changed my

position on rooting for Trump now I was

a never Trumper everybody knows that but

he put Executives around him this time

around and I am rooting for those

Executives to do what's right for the

American people and solve big problems

not make them worse it's infuriating Jam

what do you think I think we need to

have a wholesale replacement of the

people govern the state of California

it's just not working full stop and I

think that the citizens that live in

California need to do some real soul

searching it is beyond Party

politics so I think what has happened in

California is people vote for whatever

vessel has the name Democrat beside

their name or republican beside their

name and I think that you have to go

back to First principles and do a better

job of picking the people to represent

us because the people that are in

positions of power just don't

fundamentally know what they're doing

they're not

capable and the fact that then what we

have to deal with are sort of lies and

distractions to excuse incompetence I

think is

unacceptable I think we pay way too high

of a

price and like I said you are now

dealing with hundreds of thousands of

families whose entire lives have been

totally disrupted and ripped away and I

hope that we learned something from this

because we didn't learn from it eight

years

ago and we clearly didn't learn from it

when a different natural disaster in

North Carolina will we find out that

folks said hey guys is there an outlier

natural disaster event obviously it's

not going to be the same thing in North

Carolina but could a different form of

something happen here what could it be

are we prepared I'm sure we'll find out

that they didn't do that maybe they had

different meetings and they were about

other total distractions or things that

just didn't matter so this is what we

need to do we as a populace in this

state need a reset otherwise we deserve

what we get Bingo Sayan you agree yeah I

think I think Democrats need to reclaim

their party I think uh there's a lot

more strength in the middle and you know

they've let this woke ideology ology I

call it U woke

imperialism like a religion take over in

place of actually doing things that

matter to the people that elected them

that pay taxes that pay their you know

their paychecks and everything in

between and it's time that people really

look in the mirror I've got so many

moderates coming to me saying you know

people call me a Republican and I'm far

right and I'm a Nazi and I'm like yeah

welcome to the club you know it's at

some point you've got to stop letting

them run the board and and stand up and

say you know enough's enough you know

we're not building some Railway that's

never being built we're not solving

homelessness with billions and billions

of dollars we're not doing this stuff

anymore you know we do need real

Executives to your point

Jason you know to run things that

understand how things are how it works

and and you know the best use of funds

because right now it's it's it's

misappropriated it's a crisis of

competence I mean I think we all see it

these are in competent people by the way

it's not just it's not just the

leadership it's also legislative action

that's going to be needed to fix a lot

of the the policies the regulations the

way infrastructure operates in the state

and that requires three things to change

number one is the California State

Assembly number two is the California

state Senate and number three is to put

things in front of the voters that they

can vote on to make the wholesale change

needed to resend some of the bad

decisions that were made over over the

last three decades in the state that has

led us to this point and I think that

it's going to require just like what

happened recently in the National

politics a state politics organizational

effort to say let's take a look at the

composition of the State Assembly the

state senate and what are some of the

votes that need to be done by the

citizens to make the necessary changes

in the state to try and get the world's

fifth largest economy to start act

acting and looking like it because right

now it's sort of like a weirdly disabled

third world country typee operation with

the wealthiest resources on planet Earth

and it seems pretty up it's almost like

once people have it all that's when they

want to give it all up that seems to be

the moment that this state has just

passed now maybe it's time to go reclaim

it and build it back well said I mean

and as we said in the segment there are

so many common sense tactical strategic

things that these people could be doing

that they should be doing that they're

not and needs to be a full-blown

investigation you kind of alluded to

this earlier chamath but if there is if

this is dereliction of Duty then then we

need to look into this in a very deep

fashion and to the people of California

you have more power than you know my

friend who used to be on this podcast

once in a while he and I collaborated on

Chessa Boudin being taken out as this uh

da in in the Bay Area I know some other

people here were involved in it as well

and you can recall somebody so recall

these incompetent lunatics recall them

and replace it's scary but you can you

know they they they send all their

people after you they threaten you get

personal they I was signature number one

and I I had to deal with the Deluge of

that stuff but to be honest with you

I've never been happier to do something

and get civically engaged I think it's

so important that everybody starts

getting involved in their local

government and their state government

and the national government because you

can't just expect people to do the work

for you and expect it to turn out well

and I think that's kind of the mistake

that we all made if we want to take some

responsibility the tech industry as a

whole did not get as involved as we

ought to have in the past and I think we

should get more involved why was that

saying why why did for 20 years while we

were all in the Bay Area or other people

you know just were too busy building

companies bus building companies and I

remember if I remember correctly the

only person I I I remember getting

involved in local stuff was Ron Conway

yes and he would try to get everybody

involved and we were all just like you

know there's people who are smart that

do that sort of thing and they're going

to do their thing and they're running

stuff and we're just not going to get

involved and a lot of people would say

I'm not political I don't I don't do

politics I don't you know they didn't

get involved until it affected them kind

of like the houses burning down it

affects them and you know like they're

that saying that first they came for so

and so and I didn't speak up you know

that's what's happening here and uh you

know I just really think that

people need to realize it's now

affecting them and it's now time to make

a change and elect better leaders here's

a framing if you're paying 50% tax in

California you're a shareholder of an

organization known as California Inc

you're on the board of that company

you're paying the salaries of the people

there you have a say recall these people

start a recall of Nome start a recall of

Karen bass just do it I I'm not doing it

I don't have time for this I'm in Austin

but y'all in C who are still in

California start a page recall Nome

recoil bass and you have the power to do

it and you will succeed I guarantee it

now is the moment to strike there's

other news we should get to you know I

hate to say thoughts and prayers but

literally I've been thinking about this

you know all day long and I have a lot

of friends my friend Mark suster lost

his home I used to play cards with Jimmy

Woods and you know I just feel terrible

for everybody who's lost their homes and

then their kids and their schools are

burned down as well all those great

schools in Pacific Palisades are gone I

can see developers coming in being like

dude if I could buy all these lots for

80% off I will that's what's going to

happen they're going to sit on them yeah

they're going to just sit on them and

wait for people to forget like they did

in 1962 Caruso of the world will do that

yeah anyway yeah he should be running

the place probably I'll give you another

another California Department of

Insurance stat so after the California

Department of Insurance wouldn't allow

the rates to rise like they should from

a free market perspective they had to

set up their own insurance program

called the fair plan for homeowners it

has about 200 $ 120 million of capital

in it and then they bought about $5

billion of reinsurance they have about 6

billion of exposure in Pacific palates

alone this is a bankrupt just like I

told you guys about in Florida the state

insurance commission tries to step in

and fill the market Gap that they create

by regulating rates and then they don't

have enough Capital to actually fill the

Gap because the reason the rates want to

go up is because the thing costs more

than the state is willing to so they're

distorting it they're putting their

thumbs on the scale and they're

distorting it even more a bigger crat

they're driving real estate value up

because they're not allowing the cost of

insurance of that real estate to

naturally float and so by driving real

estate values up the economy looks good

they make property taxes income comes in

but at the end of the day the bill is

going to come due and in the case of

Florida and in the case of California

either the state government or the

federal government's going to step in

and pay the difference and at some point

taxpayers are going to look at the fact

that they're paying some percentage of

their income to support someone else's

home

and they're going to say enough is

enough and enough of these sorts of

events start to happen and then the

legislative change I think will happen

that says this it doesn't make sense we

have to make a change and I think we're

getting pretty close after the series of

events all right this has been an

absolutely fantastic discussion let's

move on to our next topic here Zuck just

fired meta's third party fact Checkers

and he is going to embrace the community

notes model from Twitter SLX which

predates Elon ownership of the platform

and is an open source project for those

folks who don't know on Tuesday made he

made the announcement on an Instagram

video he published a Blog with a bunch

of

details and he made the signal that he

was going to move the trust and safety

team out of California which he feels

maybe was too uh far to the left as we

were just discussing in the previous

story uh and move it to the great state

of Texas and

here's a quote from his comments in

recent years we've developed

increasingly complex systems to manage

content across our platforms partly in

response to societal and political

pressures to moderate content this

approach has gone too far if you

remember back in August Zuck sent a

letter to the house Judiciary Committee

explaining how the FBI and Biden

Administration have pressured Facebook

into censoring posts about Co and Hunter

Biden you'll also remember that

Zuckerberg has over 3 billion

members to his platform and had no

problem Banning Trump from the platform

after January 6th a lot to talk about in

this topic Sayan what's your general

take of Zuck going Maga how do you

interpret his I actually think change of

heart I actually think deep down inside

he always has been you know I I go back

to the beginning days of Facebook and

when there was social networks that were

competing which back at the time was my

space the only political party you could

be was Republican or Democrat and then

Along Came Facebook and he added this

third option called libertarian and I I

would like to go to the way back machine

at some point and find his profile

because his profile said he was a

Libertarian so when he started Facebook

you know that that's where he leaned so

I think he's always been a free speech

person I think he's always this has been

deep in his heart I think what happened

was he had enormous success they grew

very large and he had to become neutral

or he thought he did and so I think what

we're seeing with Zuck right now with

his change in his um you know even how

he appears with a gold chain and how

he's dressing and everything that he's

doing is him going back to his roots to

be more authentic because I think he

hasn't been authentic for a long time

and and that was a big critique that

people had of him you know they were

just like when he talks he's like a

robot and I think what we're seeing is

him coming out of his shell and I don't

know if fighting helped it or what

helped it but you know I I do think it's

the best thing to do all the platforms

need to do it and should embrace it and

um it can be gamed though Community

notes can be gamed we saw it with um I

saw a report that you know kamla's

campaign or or I don't know if they

directly work for her or what happened

but they did take over Community notes

on X and start manipulating them so you

have to be really careful you know how

you run a community but in in general

I'm all for it I think it's the right

move it's but one signal it's one system

for trying to get you the truth it's not

the only one fact in is another one and

having no system is another one chth

you're obviously an alumni you worked

side by side with Zuckerberg in the

pivotal years of building the Facebook

platform what's your take on what cyan

said and what do you attribute

Zuckerberg's massive 180 here I would

start by saying I think he's a

phenomenal businessman I mean I think

the the results speak for

itself but I also think that that is

exactly what explains the shift in many

ways he to make that shift I think it's

fair to say that in the Obama and Biden

administrations when the winds were

blowing towards censorship they were

part of that machinery and that was the

value maximizing function for Facebook

shareholders in that time because if you

pushed back against that it's not clear

what would have happened to Facebook in

other ways and so I think the

decision whether he morally agreed with

or not almost didn't matter it's the

leadership of the country in which I

operate is telling me it's going to go

this way I go that way once the Biden

and Obama administration sort of went to

the Wayside there's a very interesting

picture that Donald Trump put in his

book and I just I sent it to Nick and I

think it sort of explains the last

week's events relatively well so I'll

just read

it this is a picture of him sitting in

the oval and it says Mark Zuckerberg

would come to the Oval Office to see me

he would bring his very nice wife to

dinners be as nice as anyone could be

while always plotting to install

shameful lock boxes in a true plot

against the president in jcal all caps

okay shout out to the president he told

me that there was nobody like Trump on

Facebook but at the same time and for

whatever reason steered it against me we

are watching him closely and if he does

anything illegal this time he will spend

the rest of his life in prison as will

others who cheat in the 2024

presidential election now that's what he

put in the book and then he was asked

about this

quote at a recent press conference Nick

do you have the the link to that he's

colorful freeberg did you notice Donald

Trump a little bit

colorful essentially Trump was asked

about Zuckerberg's move to free speech

and he he was ENT he was asked you know

do you think it was because of

your threat and he goes yeah probably

well I watched their news conference and

uh I thought was a very good news

conference I think they've honestly I

think they've come a long way meta do

you think he's directly responding to

the threats that you have made to him in

the past probably

probably wow there it is but again the

the the the lens that I would put on

this is now the winds are blowing in a

different direction and I do think it's

the value maximizing function I think

Elon didn't make a value maximizing

function he made a moral decision he did

it when it was unpopular and where the

winds were clearly blowing in the

opposite direction

now that those winds have changed and

it's clear Trump one in early November

the decisions you make in January are

more reflective of the new conditions on

the field coming into the inauguration

but I do think it's the smart value

maximizing decision yet again for

Facebook shareholders and I think it

begets a broader

point I think the thing is when you see

Elon

operate he's a complete outlier in many

dimensions but I think the one dimension

where it matters the most is that he

acts

morally and in the best interests of

what he believes Humanity benefits from

he's always done it he was willing to

torch $44 billion when he bought Twitter

in order to do it and so he does these

things from his own perspective I don't

think there's any other CEO that leads

this way and I don't think they should

necessarily I do think that you know

Mark's a good person but his intimate

feelings should be known by his wife his

children his friends his family I think

we as shareholders have any right to

know necessarily Elon is different and I

think it creates an expectation that

maybe we'll get that from everybody else

but I wouldn't conflate everybody else

with him so I think that this is a smart

business decision it makes a ton of

sense and as you can see he was

basically told to do it so he complied

uh free your thoughts on

Zuckerberg making this decision if kamla

Harris had won

would he have released a statement or

added Dana White to the board of

Facebook probably not okay there you

have it folks pretty straightforward

here KLA wins he would not have done

this he is jumping in front of a

marching band and he is the band leader

now he's got his baton and uh he is a

front runner and if you open the

dictionary and you look it up but I mean

it's a smart business move I think if

you're a meta shareholder I think you're

happy to see it absolutely is there

anything wrong with it J or you're just

saying there's a tremendous amount wrong

with it it's called moral Integrity

having an ethical Compass having hoah

having an own sense of what's right and

wrong in the world which he does not

have in my estimation based on hisor

that's not fair that's not fair you

don't know because again what I'm saying

is I said based on my estimation no but

Jason no what I'm trying to say is Elon

shares who he is in a 360 Dee way with

the world so we know where he stands and

all I'm saying is what Mark does or

doesn't believe really isn't known to us

it's probably known to his wife and his

family and his board I doubt his board

even knows actually some of his close

confidence some of his confidence let me

be clear I'll even it's it's I'm I'm

happy you're challenging me on it I base

people on their actions his action was

to be the greatest censor in the history

of humanity there's no human being who

censored More Humans than him that was

his decision when it was a popular

decision whether it was

or po not popular Jason necessary for

maximizing his business in that moment

he do I disagree his business would have

been just as vibrant if he had a spine

and he just said this is what I believe

and I think he's over optimizing based

on what he thinks everybody else around

him wants and I don't know I didn't I've

never worked with him I don't know him

personally you're right on that front

but he banned Trump for two years the

president of the United States I said at

the time I don't know that you can give

a permanent brand ban to the president

United States when he had the

opportunity to reevaluate that decision

you know what he did he punted he

created a third- party organization to

make the decision for him and deflected

Zuck created the oversight board he's so

spineless he decided I'll create and

give $150 million to this board to make

these hard decisions for me instead of

me making the decision he has God voting

shares of that company chamath he

controls it with an Iron Fist and not

only does he control with an iron fist

he has put protetive prisions in that so

that his children could take that $3.3

billion platform and own it forever and

he punted to them and said I don't want

to make these decisions what I saw when

he did that was I don't want to be

blamed for these decisions and that is a

lack of courage and Morality In my

estimation Jason and then the second he

is threatened by Trump he makes the

opposite decision and if he's making his

decisions strictly on maximizing money I

don't respect that I think he should

make the decisions based on what he

think is is the moral what is the point

of being a billionaire or worth a 100

billion or 200 billion if you don't get

to say I have you money you I'm going to

do what I want and that's what I think

is the his moral failure and anybody

giving him his flowers or champing him

for this I think it's just political

expediency and I think it's disgraceful

that's my per that's my feeling sorry I

have my own opinion what about the fact

that he was dragged in front of Congress

many times over and people that could

put him behind bars told him to his face

many times and this all been kind of

been coming out over the last couple of

months that government officials were

directing him in a way that feels like

do this or you will be prosecuted to do

the following things to act the

following way and to moderate your

platform in a way that we are telling

you to moderate it or you will find

yourself behind bars do you not think

that there's some degree of inherit

complicit kind of role that certain

government officials and folks in power

had in driving some of those actions

that maybe he had to do it to survive

and to keep the company alive not to

mention a violation of our constitution

no not at all he could have just hired

lawyers and fought it he didn't put up

any fight the second they told him to

roll over and ban Trump he did it zero

fight from him he has no do you know

that for sure because I I just want to

make sure I ask I'm just basing on his

actions I'm like I told you at the

beginning B basing on his actions right

not going to jail for Banning Trump if

he didn't ban Trump or he gave him a

six-month suspension he would have been

just fine I'm just trying to get you to

take a fair point of view which means

like let's make sure you're thoughtful

about the fact that this is not a dumb

person or a person let's give give him

the benefit for a minute he he's not a

DB benefit of being a great business

executive I'm just saying let's assume

he's not dumb and let's say that as cyan

points out and as he's kind of

highlighted points in his history he

actually does have certain beliefs and

certain systems that he would love to

kind of embrace I've said this many

times before all of the founders of the

big tech companies were all big Free

Speech Advocates that was a big part of

the open internet and the movement of

the open internet when a lot of people

got involved and that was a big part for

him

and I don't know like you know if you

really think at some point he flipped

his switch and said I don't care about

the open internet I now want to have a

closed controlled internet or if he

recognized or was coerced into

controlling moderation on the platform

because of the reach that he had and he

said the only way I can have any degree

of openness is to do the following and I

will say that my experience is similar

in Google when Google had to exit China

they initially went to China with a

closed internet with a closed censored

model of search because that was the way

they had to survive to offer a business

in China they didn't morally agree with

it they didn't think it was ethically

correct did they launch that or did

Sergey kill the deal when Eric Schmidt

proposed it well that deal went live

there was a let me let me just make sure

I get this all correct no they didn't go

live Sergey Bren because of his

upbringing in Russia he went to the mat

and said on a moral basis we're not