If you can tell me the

difference between a three and a four on a call recording score card.

Boy, I got some, oceanfront property to sell you in Arizona.

Hey, everybody, I'm Cory Bray.

When the co-founders of ClozeLoop.

I've also written eight sales books, and I'm passionate about helping

B2B sales teams grow because the problems they've got.

Figure out what's around the corner.

And like everybody out there, we've been working on AI a lot recently.

So after having a services business for eight years,

we've pivoted hard into technology.

And so what we've been doing is taking all of the frameworks

and concepts and trainings and methodologies that we've developed

that we're deploying as services and consulting and augmenting it with tech.

And that's what we've been doing at a super high level.

And we can dig into it. Yeah.

So walk me through it.

Well, I think the challenge was if we look at pre

2020 sales enablement was this thing that was kind of new.

And companies would have a sales enablement person and they plug them in

and they'd work on a project and it might be

oh we got to work on a new hire onboarding this quarter.

Next quarter, we might need to work on demos.

And the next quarter we might need to work on manager development.

So it's this thing where it just happens sequentially

and some work gets done on a topic, and then they move on to the next thing,

and then they move on to the next thing.

And then it was interesting because when interest rates go to zero,

technology sector booms.

All of a sudden you've got these companies that have.

It was like

my one of my interns is like, I know I've made it when my intern has an intern.

And it was like, oh, my sales enablement

associate has a sales enablement associate,

and you've got this whole world of people

that are there trying to support the team. The team is growing like crazy.

Revenues coming in like nuts and growth just out of control.

And then the music stops and we go into 2023

and we're like, okay, things are hard again.

How do we solve this?

Well, back to the basics.

Let's identify where our challenges are and start to fix them.

But you had a lot of folks

that came in in these sales enablement roles that lived in the good times,

and they weren't necessarily

analytical, legally focused on identifying and solving

acute problems and 100 seeing problems because things were so good for so long.

Couple that with the fact that competition is fierce

and there's companies that are getting pushed out of markets left and right,

as what used to be things that were hard to do are now fairly simple.

You got companies out there that raise half $1 billion

to do things like forecasting or forecasting fourth grade math.

That, combined with AI, isn't that hard to do anymore.

Content creation words, not that hard to write anymore.

So the new world.

So the thing that we're focused on is how do we take all the hard things

that need to be done and remove as much of the manual effort

as possible from them, while still applying human oversight?

So technology first human in the loop.

And here's how that manifests itself.

You're bringing new people into the company.

They need to know things. They need to be able to do things.

So how do we equip them with the knowledge and the skill

and the mindset that they need to be successful?

Well, in the past

you'd go on this big project and say, let's go build an onboarding program.

Well, I'm already programed consists of two things.

Things that everybody in the world knows industry, market stuff that's out there

outside of the walls of the company.

And there's things that are inside of the walls of the company.

They're trade secrets, specific things that others don't know.

Maybe their customers do that outside the wall stuff is a complete commodity

right now, and you can whip up a new hire training program in an hour,

and it's not that hard.

Oh, and by the way, you can make quiz questions and certifications.

So that thing that used to take weeks, if not months to put together part of it

now can be done with a few clicks, mouse and then with the internal stuff.

A lot of it's already documented.

So how do we suck in the information from the docs and the decks and

all of those types of things? How do we conduct interviews?

And we've got transcripts.

Pull all that information and say, okay, well,

let's let's combine the outside the wall stuff, the industry specific

knowledge with what the company needs people to know.

And all of a sudden, we've got a pretty killer new hire ramp program.

Instead of doing one silly role play to certify them,

you can do unlimited because you can say, hey, I take that certification

and create a different version of it, and now it's let's recertify them.

Oh, by the way, let's not just do it in practice or for pretend.

Let's augment it with some call recording analysis.

Because when people do things, they either do them,

they do them well, or they do them well under pressure.

And you cannot gauge do that well under pressure unless we've got

a view of what they're actually doing, what their most important prospects.

And so we're bringing somebody in the organization.

It doesn't just stop at, but they went through the program.

It doesn't just stop it. They do one role play with management.

No. Let's continuously review that.

Everybody's calls are recorded now.

So let's take all of that and let's do something with it.

Let's build a rubric for the person, not for the company,

not for the team, but for the individual person.

And say, what does this person need to do in the call?

And it's not one of these silly

one out of five rubrics that apparently the call recording companies

that don't know anything about sales coaching build notes, skill 3012

didn't do it, did it? Did it? Well that's it.

Because if you can tell me

the difference between a three and a four on a call recording scorecard.

Boy, I got some oceanfront property to sell you in Arizona.

So the goal here is we're bringing people in the organization.

We're getting them up to speed.

We're making sure they know what they need to do.

They got the mindset they need that.

They need to do the job,

and then we'd be able to inspect them and they can even coach themselves.

It's not about Big Brother looking down on them.

It's about I'm an individual and I can go back and watch game tape.

Every great athlete in the history of the world,

they're probably John Daly watches game tape and really studies.

What did they do? Well, where were their challenges?

How can they get better?

Well, we can we can enable folks to do that.

And then by the way,

let's go get some more practice doing it the way I role play.

Again not hard.

Build those things in five minutes.

Have it live conversation back and forth with somebody.

And so I think that's the that's the broad idea of

how do we take these things

that used to be quarter long or half year long, sequential individual sales

enablement projects, and let a company execute

all of them at once, put them in place, continuously improve

so you can bring people into the organization, either externally

you can promote them internally, you can get them up to speed.

You can continuously inspect and improve what they're doing.

You can set those great people up for success,

to hit their numbers, to get promoted into enterprise, to become managers.

And the folks that are going to make it well, we can work them out in a fair way

because there's a really good feedback loop.

And so they don't feel like they're being treated unfairly because,

you know, it's like this in basketball, the ball don't lie.

If you can't do this, let's recognize that we can't do it and move on.

So that's I think

I think you mentioned two buckets internal and external data with sales enablement.

But there's almost a third bucket bridging internal and external.

Right.

Like especially for role players you can learn metric externally.

But you could see the nuance of that in the sales process

and how the best reps are doing it from internal data.

Right.

Like and theoretically you could see best practices

from other teams, perhaps a little bit externally.

Some of it's shared anecdotally or or better.

How do you operationalize each of those buckets?

Was three buckets.

And then the follow up is how are you measuring success.

Well let's start with the second question.

So if you don't know where are you going you might end up someplace else.

That's my favorite quotes from Yogi Berra back in the 50s.

And the key with how do you measure success?

I think this is where a lot of people get lost is they say, oh, what's that?

What's the metric that I need to measure? I don't know, what's your business?

Where are you at today?

And that's where it starts with an assessment of where we are today.

Where do we need to go?

What do we need to do to get there,

and what needs to change in order for us to do that?

And so for different companies, it might be different things.

For certain companies it might be we need to increase our win rate.

For certain companies it might be we need to increase our deal size

for some companies.

And maybe we need to shorten our sales cycle.

Some companies we might need to increase the prospecting volume

in order to bring more leads.

And so I hate saying it depends because everything depends.

But the thing that you're measuring needs to be tied to the thing

that you need as an organization to get to the next milestone.

And you got to work back from that.

And then that's where all the work needs to be focused.

And then once you get to that next gate, that next,

that next milestone, reevaluate, do I do another assessment?

Because again,

in the world that we live in today, doing these assessments is not that hard.

We can do written assessments, we can do assessments of what's going on.

And then we can obviously do the quantitative assessments,

pull data of CRM in other places.

So I think that's that's the how do you measure it in what's

what's quantitative success look like in terms of bridging the

the external the internal and the and the hybrid of the two?

I'd argue that learning from your best people is icing on the cake.

It's something that you can take what that person does

really well, and try to incorporate it into the rest of the team.

But if you try to get everybody to be like the best person, it's

going to be really hard because they don't have the years behind them.

Maybe the natural ability, maybe the cognitive ability

to be able to do some of this things.

And I think that's one of the challenges when good sales reps get the management,

they want everybody to be like them.

And you can't flip a switch and make that happen.

So the question isn't how do you build a superstar person?

It's how do you build a superstar team?

And it starts with the fundamentals of really defining what are all the things

that somebody needs to know, what do they need to do

and what mindset do they need to have to support this in order to be

successful at, you know, an acceptable baseline

at a level that is, you know, above average.

And then finally, as you work towards best in class

and yeah, we can pick and choose things that we observe internally or externally.

And I'd argue that in B2B sales, the fundamentals

aren't really unique to any internal organization.

If you're doing a similar size ticket item

into a similar sized market segment, going to a similar persona,

changing vocabulary as you go from company to company, 95% of the time.

So how are you operationalizing the baseline learnings

from each bucket and then adding empowerment

on top to take that and let the reps add whatever

nuance they work best with.

And how do and one how do they work best with their two?

Like if they're newer, how how can you help them figure it out?

Like, with that.

Yeah, totally.

Well, I think that's, that's what one thing that we learned a long time ago

that I think there's I disagree with a lot of people's approach,

especially the technology vendors out there,

which is you have to be opinionated to a certain extent.

And so there's this idea that dates back to the beginning of the software

platform era, which is having an opinionated product

that people can do whatever they want with.

So you have a Microsoft Excel, you can make it whatever you want.

You don't have to make your models like this.

You can make your models however you want.

And I think that got into the world of B2B tech, including sales tech.

You know, for example, I had,

I don't know, learning

management system, I real system, whatever it is, get started.

Right.

I think we started thinking about this when it came to playbooks where, okay,

you have a good sales playbook, you should define target market

personas and competition and customer stories.

And there's a good diagram that we can use to start with that

and we can put something on top of it.

But for competitors where do you win? Where do you battle?

Where are you looking for your target market?

What's ideal? What's good? What's rejected?

Not just a sentence that says this is our ICP?

Because if you give a salesperson a sentence and says,

this is your ideal customer and they have something that

maybe they kind of think looks like that, they're going to be confused.

You're going to tell them it's not. They're going to see that is not fair.

And then this exchange just breaks down.

So I think having an opinionated framework across things like target market or,

you know, objection handling or you know, what is pain versus what is not pain.

And how do we set up pain based discovery questions?

Where are you for how do you create that opinionated framework.

Like how do you how do you actually do it. Yeah.

So that's an operationalize it. Yeah. Yeah.

So I wrote like I said earlier, I wrote eight books on this.

One of the books was Sales Playbooks Builders Toolkit.

And so then we took that and put it into closed loop AI.

So when yeah. 2020 6th April.

How are you doing it?

Are you throwing everything into clarity, creating a context graph?

That that best helps understand the actual nuance,

because we have more data at our fingertips now than ever.

And like some of the not everything is data, but like,

we're able to pinpoint far more than we ever have.

Yeah, totally.

When we set up, we'll talk about the playbook for a second.

When we set up a new playbook for a customer, we drafted the AI and

take their domain, scrape the web for what market do they compete in?

What personas do they sell to you? What are their customer stories?

Because they're on their website,

they're also on third party sites and things like that.

Start seeding things because when it comes to things like

playbooks or enablement programs or onboarding learning paths

or anything like that, the biggest enemy is the blank piece of paper.

And the thing that AI is giving us is the ability to move past that

blank piece of paper that you can't iterate on,

and it gives us something that we can iterate on.

So if I take something that AI is drafted based on what's out there in the world,

and I give it to an executive, they can easily look at it and say,

that's right, that's wrong, that's wrong, that's right, that's wrong, that's wrong.

So it speeds up the process so fast by allowing for that human to react

to something instead of this paralyzing project of here's a blank document,

fill it out.

Are you adding in any other data points outside of their website?

Because let's be honest, a lot of companies websites

say the same thing even when they do something different.

There's a lot of like like, I for GTM, I'm not even kidding you.

There are multiple sites that say that ideas that enable anybody.

Are you bringing in core recordings at that point as well and saying like,

hey, we waited your website at this we rate waited your call recordings

actually as fire because like this is what's actually happening.

What actually is being said.

We're bringing your pipeline information in at go to understand

between what actually is being said to what's actually closing

is making some very educated assumptions there, etc., for sure.

So yes.

And so at the baseline, the nice thing is like the models have gotten so good

at reading Zen and Inference, now they can read around a lot of those things

like what you just described, like if you gave that to, you know, OpenAI 3.5,

it would just do exactly what you said would be like the AI for GTM.

This is what we do, right?

But if you give it to four one or open

four six, it's going to have a much more broader context

and understanding and be like, okay, I can pick this nuance out

because I'm not just looking at your website, reading it,

I'm looking at your domain,

and I'm understanding how you fit in the world out there.

And we come back with things and then absolutely

take the core recordings and beef it up.

And the cool thing about that is it's it's limitless.

It's not like you can only use three.

Let's, let's go through 50 of these and see what people are saying about us.

I've got one, one prompt in our call recording.

So I was just looking at pulls 110 data points from each call.

It's wild.

Now we don't surface all of those to the end user, but we have those.

And so there's things that a user can look at at the call level.

And then there's something that we can look at kind of at though

we call it like the intermediate period, like the month level.

And then we got something that's, that's on the the longer term level.

And we can start looking at trends across stages people, teams, managers, etc.

and it's so cheap to do all of this.

It's wild.

What's the most so like you have 100 plus data points

just using like pandas LA

20% of them probably matter 80% of the weight, right?

Like can you share some of those like top 20% data points that like drive the most?

Yeah, the top ones that drive the most are adherence to sales methodology.

And so, you know, obviously we use triangle selling

as our sales methodology that we roll to all of our customers.

And the key is, you know, did you do plan did you pivot into the meeting.

Did you uncover logistics around who's going to be there, how much time you have?

Did you get their agenda? Do we get our agenda?

Do we get permission?

Ask questions that we preview next steps? Do we do that well?

Did we look for pain when we found pain was actually pain

or was it just inefficiency or cost?

And when we found it to dig a little deeper

and then towards the end of the meeting velocity plan,

same thing, did we hit the pivot all day to end?

And then if we're sharing our screen, did we hit the components of the share

framework, the drives to a compelling demo,

especially acutely focused on the pain and asking engaging questions.

So sales

methodology, adherence to let's call it the most important things to start.

And then if people are nailing all of those,

then we can start going into some of those more nuanced, longer tail things

because it gives the managers an opportunity to coach the best person,

which I've always struggled with

because coaching energy gets directed down towards the lower end of the spectrum.

Well, when you can actually look at more things more robustly,

and you don't have to be the one sitting there trying to manually

take stuff out of one format and put it into a spreadsheet,

and then make pivot tables, but it just presents it to like, Holy cow,

I now understand how

I'm going to coach this top performer, and I'm going to get them from 130%, 250%.

Got it.

And then, are you feeling this into a real place

to help enable them?

Yes, we have a role play product that you can then kind of run it back.

So, hey, things happen on the call.

Let's go practice this or let's design a combination of things that we observe.

And so we can get people practicing things

before they blow it with their biggest prospect

ever ended up missing a quote and get fired. Like don't do that.

You have the opportunity to do this. Go do it.

How often do you think a leader needs to make sure

their reps are doing role plays

and like for for an A rep a B rep. Rep.

Yeah.

Well, if people are consistently demonstrating that they've got it dialed

in, they look people, especially people

who have been doing it for a long time, they're not going to do role plays.

There's not going to use it. They're not going to do it.

You can ask them to, but you know, that's that's that's one case.

I think the the good case for role plays are you got new hires, you got people

moving into new roles, you've got new product

launches, you've got post M&A integration, like those are phenomenal use cases

that are good for anybody that's in in one of those positions

or hey, we're getting smoked by this competitor

because they just launched something new and they're eating or eating our lunch.

I think those are those are good things.

But look, I mean, you know, you got Allen Iverson, you got Michael Jordan.

Like Allen Iverson didn't want to practice talking about practice.

Right.

And then you got people Kobe sitting in the gym all day every day.

And he was incrementally better than Iverson.

But Iverson still felt like a top 20 player of all time, arguably maybe 30.

But, so yeah, it's I think it's a function of giving the managers tools.

So then they can direct enablement activity.

Because what happens is sales enablement says go do this.

People aren't going to do it.

It just doesn't happen like sometimes.

Sure. Maybe BTR yeah, whatever.

Like show me a wrap with gray hair that sales enablement

says I'm assigning you something like, okay, cool, I'm excited about this.

It's just it's it's not the reality.

But what the reality is, is that if we can empower the managers

to have that quick access to go do something to build,

deploy and inspect rapidly, then it becomes more of a reality.

And that's what we've been seeing recently.

What are you seeing with the shift of like enablement?

Try to enablement, post,

like the successes and like the,

the team size requirement

to make that happen, assuming that they have like an in-house team.

Well, Priya had their bandwidth constraint, bandwidth constrained

because certain things just take lots of man hours.

And I mean, car reviews take lots of man hours.

Building programs takes lots of man hours running interviews and collecting

information and aggregating and present making PowerPoint presentation.

Six lots of men or so. I think that was the constraint.

I, I think the constraint post AI is around,

you know, a couple of things that aren't the focus of the role traditionally,

which are analytical skills and project management.

I think those are when it comes to enablement, the two most important

skills are analytical skills and project project management.

From an analytical standpoint, can we diagnose what our problems are?

Can we stack rank those problems?

Can we go get some quick wins while also chipping away

at some of the long term opportunities? And what

okay,

so what's the future self enablement like?

It's a question that, enablement professionals that are like

having a difficult time in their roles or finding a role

as they find themselves out of roles like what's what's the future look like?

Can't any operations person figure this out with like, a game plan?

Yeah, it's it's hard.

It's harder to justify more headcount for this role.

I think the key is and that's the second point I was making,

which is around project management,

which is how do we make this stuff actually work.

So we go build something.

It's the Edwards Deming, my favorite statistician and thinker

around manufacturing.

His framework was planned do check act.

So we got a plan. We got to do it. We had to check our work.

We got to act.

Traditionally, enablement is pretty much lived in that plan

world of, okay, we're going to go do this initiative, we're going to build it.

And then, you know, we're going to do it or oversee it or whatever.

I think

I still get it.

They vocally say they've been disconnected from revenue.

And I'm like, that sounds dangerous for your career.

Yeah, totally. And you're disconnected from everything.

Revenue is your customer.

If I'm disconnected from one of my customers,

that tells me that my customer is Machiavellian to what I do objectively.

So if enablement disconnected from revenue, then enablement

not giving the amount of value for them to feel connected, is the manager

knocking on the door would be a hey, I need help with this thing next.

And if they're not, that's the problem.

And what what results?

Are you seeing on average

or in any cases that you have like an example, like,

a hard example of,

from, like full enablement

pre I be 20, 23, 24.

Yeah. To today when we got companies that so I

when we would roll out triangle selling to teams it would take

I don't know a month from the time

the contract signed for them to be up and running and really doing it.

We have people the same day the contracts signed using our frameworks

in their meetings, because they can get into the pre-work

inner courses, they can start learning the stuff, they can get the quizzes done,

they can start doing the roll plays with the roll with the AI bots,

and they can start working with their customers.

And I'm not saying you should start doing it the first day,

and that's scary to anybody.

But but day two, day three, day for day five, you're able to create

a ramp periods that look more like traditional ramp periods.

There is much more to know, much more to do, much more complexity.

On the east side of the world

traditionally are cold calling on day two, day three.

It's no big deal.

You can start getting each cell in on day two. Day three.

Granted, they know how to sell.

You know you want to pick somebody off the street,

but assuming the same person, what was old ramp for each role?

What's new ramp and are you used in weeks or months?

And what percentage of folks are hitting Gaul

and at what time period horizon in terms of ramp,

I would say that, you know, old World, you could get a rant in 60 days.

I now like if they really get after it, like

they can be crushing in two weeks, like legit crushing because

you need to know some stuff.

You need to do some stuff.

You know, the all the tools, the learning, and you got the ability to practice it

asynchronously.

You don't have to sit around waiting for,

you know, Bob to get out of the conference room.

So I think on that front, it's super fast.

And then on the east side, you know,

you could start doing your first discovery meeting your second week of work.

I've got I can think of several clients that they've got.

People come in and they're doing discovery meetings with prospects.

Second week, it's awesome. Okay.

Yeah. And, how long is it taking the rep to hit

quota like, on, on average, like assuming it's a quota hitting rep.

Yeah.

The function there is something leads to that.

So yeah.

And I think that's the scary part about today right.

Is that it's harder to get people's attention.

You got people blocking the phones.

You got the emails aren't getting answered the way that needs to be.

Marketing is more expensive.

And so a lot of folks are walking

in these roles and the pipeline is not there is the right metric.

Then sales enablement or is it?

And I got off a call yesterday where I had

two calls recently with people that sell into the enterprise,

and they said the new metric, they're looking at Sierra level.

Somebody else was selling a time for selling, like as a percentage of the week,

and like the average is 20% on the high end right now.

And they want to see if they can get to 50 or 75%.

Understanding that 100% is probably hard, like yes yester years.

Yeah. Admin BRM and

maybe research took up like a lion's

share of the corrupted selling time that's minimized beyond belief.

Now. Now it's some like new thing so to speak.

But life like it also brings up a bigger point like from from a higher perspective.

Like, should you even hire somebody before you've optimized

your one rep selling for 50% or more of their time?

Yeah.

Well, I think you definitely shouldn't hire expensive account executive

and tell them, go figure out how to get leads when you have marketing.

I mean, as this thing is driving me nuts, it's like

you've got a marketing department with like a VP of marketing

and a director of marketing and an associate in an agency.

You got that, then you got a BD team with BD or manager,

and then you go higher and you're like, go find leads.

Like, what the hell are those other people doing?

I mean, I don't yes, salespeople should prospect agree.

However, what are those other people doing?

That's odd. So yeah, 50% agree.

I think that the problem is like,

when do you get much over 50% of actual selling time?

If we're talking sales is like scheduled meeting is not cold calling.

It's hard because then you start having so many calendar

conflicts, you can't keep velocity with your deals,

because if I've got a packed calendar, I have one client that just crushes

trade shows and they'll do trade show and there is

calendars will be blocked for two weeks afterwards.

And then the BDS is like, I can't schedule a meeting

with this person for three weeks.

And then the prospects upset, upset, he's upset.

Everybody's like,

yeah, but you're still at that percent selling time for the seller.

Like it still goes to that. That's that's a good thing for the org.

They could figure out everything else.

I, I think if percent seller time is good look at someone's calendar

and look at the calendar. Are you happy with that calendar.

And it's like yeah, calendar capacity, win rate, deal size.

Well happy could be objective right?

Like like happy could mean 50% or 75%.

And then can enablement come in as well to somebody

that has a packed calendar they're already ramped and figure out

how to take less, assuming

that they only have bandwidth for 50% because they have other things to do.

Yeah.

Around that account, can they create processes

for those other things to do to to shorten the time to that of research?

Right.

Like I need to create a proposal rate you have.

Sure. Absolutely. All of these call notes.

You're just going in your brain and thinking through it.

We have it.

We could have, you know, something set up in clutter, something to like sticker.

Operationalize a proposal.

Proposals don't need to take that long.

If if there's nothing

that it hasn't been recorded.

Yeah for sure I mean that's one of my favorite use cases is my proposals.

Take one probably one fifth as long as they used to

because everything's spoken in the meeting.

Yeah.

Well and then you're kind of touching on another point,

which is the role the swim lanes of enablement versus ops.

Okay.

I think traditionally what we've seen was that the enablement

role is less technical, the operational is more technical.

Ops has, you know, they got all the API keys.

They got all the other tech vendors on their on their side.

But is enablement not doesn't have some kind of authority over that.

And the CRM is not set up great.

Or the proposals process isn't set up great or you know,

or whatever it is, then, it's you're kind of fighting against yourself internally.

You can't drive towards, revenue.

That's why I personally think the future of enablement is ops.

And if you're not that ops person, we don't need any lady da.

This is the new training.

We're very we know we're telling the reps.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, so so that's that's another another interesting one is

like what is ops you know, because like if you look outside of SAS

and you know companies that said that their desk ops is much bigger and,

and it's like operations of the business and it's really like

orchestrating some, some tech.

So the question then becomes, is the person who orchestrates the

best suited to be an employee, or is it best suited to be some.

It's like the best tech orchestrator, around

at the company for ten years, you

know, windows closed.

Private equity companies are sticking around for longer and longer and longer.

You got these companies that have been around

venture back companies that are ten, 12, 15, 18 years old now,

how many operations people they had

and what kind of hornet's nest gets created in a world where you've got

cloud code running to create stuff every week, that's why.

So the IPO window, I believe, is reopening,

but it's not the same companies.

You're going to see an Cirrhotic IPO.

So you're going to see OpenAI IPO.

I think stripe will finally IPO and they will IPO.

That's kind of like but but

but they're all building the new way and facilitating the new world right.

Yeah.

But that's like those are all companies that were founded like 20 or 30.

There's no nonsense therapist.

Well not OpenAI

OpenAI I was what, 2014.

So perplexity hit nine figures in revenue.

Yeah with five GTM people.

Do you think one of those people is an enablement person?

Out of the five? No, no. No chance.

No. Cause I have an awesome product. You have an awesome product. You don't.

The best enablement is a good product.

Fair, fair, fair.

Because yeah, I get you on the big behemoth.

Super fast companies probably being able the IPO

because I was reading to something, it was

I just looked it up from the same you I do want some street ventures.

He wrote that there were oh I get about 80.

He said 79 to 81 Starship since 2017.

That's what though like how many year is doing a lot

and how many venture funded companies are there.

Not so

sure we're going to get, you know space X you know.

Yeah, maybe.

But for the the run of the mill 50 million, hundred

million, $200 million company,

is there an opportunity to start.

You are going to be, you know,

like operating for much longer than they had

originally thought ten years ago when you started this journey.

Or they might be acquired.

But yeah, it's it's an interesting conversation.

I appreciate your time.

Corey, how can people get in touch with you?

They can find me on LinkedIn.

Corey. Ibra. Well, this is great.

Thank you so much, man.