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>> The Joe Rogan Experience.

>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY

NIGHT. All day.

>> All right. Good to see you, champ.

>> Yes, sir.

>> We were just trying to figure out how

long it's been. How what year? When was

the last one we did together? I think it

was 2017.

Almost 10 years.

>> Yeah.

>> Or maybe might have been 16.

>> Yeah, I think. Yes.

>> Was it really?

>> 19. No.

>> Number 71.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah. The data. [laughter]

>> He's got it. I like

>> Maybe we just got punched to the head a

little bit too.

>> A little bit. [laughter] Well, listen,

man. Uh I want to tell you that uh that

fight with Usyk was one of the craziest

things that I've ever seen in my life.

Never in my life did I think a guy who

would go straight from kickboxing. Did

you have any professional boxing

matches?

>> One. one one professional.

>> I've been boxing for 15 years,

>> of course. Well, also, you're arguably

the greatest kickboxer of all time.

>> Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that.

>> And you have a fight with arguably the

greatest boxer in the heavyweight

division ever. He's in the conversation

>> 100%

>> 100% in the conversation of the greatest

boxer in the heavyweight division ever.

>> And you won 10 [ __ ] rounds, man. You

won 10 rounds.

>> Yeah. So close to that. Yeah. I mean, I

don't give a [ __ ] what those judges were

saying. Those judges are trying to say

it was close. Like, it was almost like

you were up. I think one of them had you

up by one round and what the other ones

had a draw.

>> Yeah, it I think that's

>> that's a crime. If that went to the

scorecards and somehow another you lost

that decision, that would have been a

crime. A crime.

>> I know. And I got to be honest, I think

like we're we're just straight jumping

into it. So, and like uh I think that's

that's the hard part of it. It like

I don't like losing, but I don't if it

happens, it happens. But I think that's

the part that [clears throat] makes it

even harder that I It felt so injust and

>> it felt injust. The stoppage felt

injust. It didn't seem make like it made

sense. Like they were looking for a way

to stop the fight.

>> Exactly. But next to that, like

you say this as a combat sports

commentator for years and pray you've

been doing you've been in the sport for

so many years and all other professional

boxers and commentators etc. They all

see the fight a certain way like you saw

it like how I experienced it and then

when we look at the scorecards

we we get like a totally different fight

like what but what is going on there and

that is for me where the the the the

toughness is of of the whole experience

>> right the it's very difficult to accept

and if you had lost by decision it would

have been insanity and we've seen those

insane decisions before and I never know

what's going on. You know, I don't want

to think it's corruption, but it's

almost worse if it's incompetence. If

you have someone who's judging a fight,

which is like the most pivotal fight

arguably of your career, you think about

how long you've been reigning as the

heavyweight champion of kickboxing

>> for like a decade, which is crazy at the

highest level. Like, especially at the

heavyweight division, it is so hard to

stay at the top.

>> Yeah.

>> Nobody does. Everybody's like, even in

the UFC, it's like one, two fights, then

they they fall off.

>> Yeah.

>> For you to be the heavyweight champion

and have [ __ ] wars like Jamal Ben

Sadi, that fight like some of these

fights, you've had wars and to come out

on top every single [ __ ] time.

>> Yeah.

>> And then you have this enormous fight

and you have terrible judging.

>> Yeah.

>> Terrible judging. And it's like

>> it's almost worse if it's incompetence

because if you've got these people that

don't know what they're watching and

their calling like their eyes, their

decision makes a difference. But whether

it's a W or an L and it doesn't make any

sense. It's not fair. It's not right. I

think at this point in time they should

really seriously consider having

alternative scoring. I think there

should be

>> more. One of the things I like about

Glory is that Glory has more than three

judges.

>> What do they have? Four or five?

>> Five, I believe.

>> Five. I think five is the right number.

I think three is too few.

>> Yeah,

>> cuz you could have two people [ __ ] it up

and one person gets it right. And then

But if you had two more judges, the odds

are they're going to get it right, too.

The usually the people that [ __ ] it up,

it's the minority.

>> Yeah. But if you ask me like next to um

us as athletes putting our health on the

line which makes it very very hard thing

to cope with but also for the people

watching the fight

>> right

>> it's like it like you said it feels

injust and I definitely feel like

especially in the time that we're in now

everybody wants transparency. If we look

at the World Cup that just finished,

like even there when something happens,

the referee is still a person. He can

make like a mistake. He can look at at

the foul and like [snorts]

>> I saw it this way, but now what they're

doing, they're looking at the VAR.

They're looking at the cameras and

multiple people are looking at it and

like, hey, we can inter interpret it the

the rules like this because this

happened. we can see this and this is

wrong. Yeah. So even it's going to be a

card or it's going to be a penalty or

whatever there is. This is what what's

happening but within this situation

it's just like if if you ask me and it's

still possible it's a human being the

referee made a mistake and that is

possible but there should be people or a

situation where it's like hey sorry ref

but you made a mistake. this is this

wasn't the right call. So, we can

overturn it in a split of a second.

>> The only thing that's really hard to do

with that subjectively is fight

stoppages. Because sometimes, at least

in MMA, a referee sees things in a

fighter that you might not see things

watching it on television or sitting at

my seat as a commentator. A referee will

see a guy's eyes roll back in his head.

He'll see something that I don't see and

I'll go, "Oh, I thought that was a

little quick." other and then but

they're right on top of it. They see

they see certain things that you might

not be able

>> Yeah. But that's the thing we uh I

appealed it. I appealed it.

>> Mhm.

>> And and everything we appealed upon we

got they said like you guys were right.

We got stopped after the bell.

>> Yes.

>> The right after the after the stoppage

the doctor came. He I wasn't

disorientated. um didn't have no

concussion or whatever symptoms. So

everything everything we we got they

they were like, "No, you're right.

You're right. You're right." But

>> they never overturned.

>> They never overturned.

>> Well, also, how would they overturn it?

Would they go to the judge's scorecards?

And if they did go to the judge's

scorecards, what would it be? A majority

draw? Cuz if if you are down or you're

you're uh even on both cards and then up

on one and then did they count the

knockdowns in the the the final round?

Because if they did, you might have lost

that fight which is even crazier.

>> Yeah. But then but then you have

something like, "Hey guys, let's look at

the the scoring cards again and let like

and other people other judges look at

the scorecards and look at the fight and

score it again because

>> Well, here's what you know doesn't make

any sense.

>> Here's where you know it's crazy. It was

the most competitive fight of Usyk's

career as a heavyweight champion. Yeah.

>> And they're not even talking at all

about a rematch.

>> No.

>> That's kind of crazy, right? Isn't that

kind of crazy? They're saying Deontay

Wilder, which all love to Deontay,

>> but Deontay is not Deontay Wilder of

2019. No, he's a different guy now.

>> That's a good That's a good thing that

you just brought that up because

>> before this fight, you heard the whole

conversation. Okay, we're going to do

Rico. After that, I want to fight the

the winner of Dubois Wardley, and after

that, I want to fight Tyson Fury again.

>> Right.

the other the other two are not in the

conversation anymore. So

>> without taking too much credit for it, I

think like with this fight, he saw like

this was a little harder than I

expected. So let's take it let's take a

different route. And for me, I don't

want a rematch just to have the rematch.

>> I would like the rematch because it

makes sense. There's a story within this

rematch. It's huge

>> and it's something that

>> it is unfinished business.

>> Yes.

>> And [snorts] for me,

>> it's a Rocky store. A real live Rocky

store.

>> 100%. And that's why for me what I'm

looking at now, I'm like in the fall of

my or maybe in the winter of my career

as an athlete

>> and I just want to do big fights that

make sense. And then you're like, "Ooh,

this is what I want to see."

>> And not only that, as a promoter, what

makes more sense than that fight? Yeah.

>> The Deontay Wilder fight. Again, all

respect to Deontay. I love that guy.

He's one of the greatest knockout

artists in the history of the

heavyweight division. He's not the same

guy.

>> No,

>> he's not the same guy for whatever

reason. Just It happens to everybody,

right? I think he's 40 now, right? It

happens to everybody.

>> You just got off of a crazy performance.

>> Yeah.

>> And the whole world got to see it. If

any fight warrants a rematch, it's that

fight.

>> Yeah.

>> That [ __ ] rematch would be gigantic.

It would be so huge. It's the ultimate

Rocky story. I was watching that fight

on the edge of my seat.

>> The fight starts, I'm like, "How's this

going to go down? How's this going to go

down?" I'm like, "Whoa." First of all,

I'm like, "Holy [ __ ] Rico's [ __ ]

huge." [laughter] Like, you realize how

big you are.

>> And you know, Usyk is a cruiserweight.

He's a cruiser to put on weight to

become.

>> He could still make cruiser if he wanted

to. If he wanted to get really lean, he

could still make cruiser easily.

>> You're way bigger bigger than him. I'm

like, that's a giant factor. And then

it's your experience, your world

championship level experience. You've

been in so many big fights. You look so

calm and so relaxed and so in the

moment. And I was like, holy [ __ ] he

might pull it off. And then it got into

like the third, fourth, and fifth round.

I'm like, I don't see this changing. I'm

like, this is crazy. It was so funny. If

you hear the the the commentators, they

were like, okay, Rico's moving a lot and

he's fainting and he's doing this and

he's doing that, but how long can he

keep this up? Well, they don't know

about your cardio.

>> Exactly. There was one there was one

commentator uh that that also

commentator for glory.

>> Well, Alistar Alistar was there.

>> Yeah, he was also there. He was also

there. But the commentator for Glory

that he knew like that cardio-wise I I

live in the gym. That's what And you

know as well like I I I love this. So I

don't I'm never going to lose on on

cardio because then I lose for myself.

So, you know, you're an anomaly in terms

of like 260 lb men. There's very few

guys that are as big as you that push a

pace like you did. So, I wasn't when

they were saying that, I was like, you

guys, you know, you guys don't

understand what you're saying here. He's

going to be able to do this all night

long.

>> Yeah.

>> And, you know, credit to Usyk for

finally catching you and and rocking

you, but

the fight was stopped too too quickly.

It just was. It just%

>> you were still okay. You got in a world

championship fight that's that close. If

it just let's

>> not even really that close. You were

that far ahead. You got to give someone

a chance.

>> Yeah, but let's let's let's reverse it.

Let's let's rever what if he was in this

position?

>> There's no way they would stop that

fight. No way. Look, it's either

incompetence or corruption. And I tend

to think corruption. This is what I

>> I think these guys want to keep judging

fights and they want the favor of the

promoters. And the money is in Usyk.

Usyk is a huge name. He's a He's their

big star in the heavyweight division.

>> They don't They don't want like a guy

coming in from a different sport and

>> one professional boxer.

>> Exactly. Making the biggest making the

biggest upset in boxing history. That

would be

>> Yeah, that would be pretty crazy, right?

>> It really almost was the biggest upset

in boxing history. I mean, it was crazy.

It was really crazy to watch, man. But

you were the perfect guy to do it

because of the pace thing, because of

the fact that you are so big and you can

push that insane pace and keep it up for

the 12.

>> And also game plan wise,

>> we were so smart on the game plan. We

did something that he has not seen

before, that he has not experienced

before, even though he fought the best

boxers in the world. But all the boxers,

what they were trying to do is out, the

heavyweight boxers were trying to outbox

a cruiserweight. How in the hell are you

going to do that? He's lighter, he's

smaller, and he's faster. So, how are

you going to

>> super technical?

>> Exactly. So, how are you going to outbox

him? So, you you just got to have a

super strong game plan. And that's what

we had.

>> So, what when you looked at it, when you

first got the offer, first of all, how

far out did you get the offer? How far

out away from the fight? How much time

did you have to prepare?

>> Um, well, did did you did you do you

know the story how I got into this whole

thing?

>> No.

>> Okay. No, it's a crazy story.

>> Okay, let me tell you. So, it all

started with the Canelo Crawford fight

and uh Jason Staithm is a good friend of

mine and I saw he was in Vegas for that

fight. So, I texted him like, "Yo, you

there for that fight?" Oh my god. Yeah,

this is going to be great. So, we went

back and forth. [snorts] He's like,

"Yeah, brother." So, he told me,

"Brother, you need to be in boxing."

Because he was at at the tournament when

I did the eight-man tournament a few

years ago. And so, he comes to my fights

and he's like, "Oh, you you got to be

you got to be in here. You got to kill

these guys." I said, "Yeah, yeah, I I

think I could do pretty good." He's

like, "You know what? I'mma throw it out

there and let's see what happens." Okay,

so that was uh let me see. There was

Vegas time during the day. So Amsterdam

time, it was night time. So the next

morning, I'm I'm on the treadmill. I'm

running. The phone rang, Jason. So, "Yo,

bro, I'm on the treadmill. Let me call

you back. Listen, I put your name out

there. I showed your videos and they're

going crazy. They want you." So I jumped

off. I was like, "What do you mean?"

They said, "They want to do something.

They're going to call you." I gave them

your contact. Like, okay. [laughter]

So that's that's how it started. Um, a

few days later they called me, "Rico, we

want you to fight blah blah. We love

what you do and we want you to fight

Anthony Joshua."

So I'm like, "Okay, let's go. I'm ready

for this opportunity." But I was on the

set of Roadhouse 2, [laughter]

so that was like, "Oh [ __ ] now we got

to combine everything. I have my trainer

coming in like during Yeah. during takes

and like okay we do some pad work and

and then finally uh we were supposed to

fight in February so I think the deal

came around October October November so

I had like around 10 10 good weeks to to

train and then finally I finished off

the movie in December and he uh but in

between Joshua got the offer to fight

Jake Paul for a crazy amount of money so

he was Of course I'm gonna do that and

then after that I'm gonna gonna do the

Rico fight.

>> Perfect.

>> Okay. He does the Jake Paul fight. Well,

that went like how it went. And then

they reached out like can we push the

fight a little bit instead of February

to March like I'm good. The more time I

get the better

>> so to train

>> to to transition into boxing. So that

happened and then the end of the year

like two weeks later that tragic

accident happens. So that was

>> Yeah, we're talking about Anthony

Joshua. He was in Africa. Terrible car

accident. Killed two of his friends.

>> Yeah. Terrible. So that derailed that

whole situation, but I had a whole

training plan scheduled. I was going to

Spain to train there for a month, but I

didn't know what was going to happen. So

I just did what I had to do and I just

continued training. So I was in Spain

training, training, training. And then

at the end of the that training camp,

they uh we were talking about it and

they said like, "Yeah, we don't think

also with with with his manager Eddie

Hearn like I don't know if he's going to

be back soon. So what do you want to do?

You want to wait or you want to fight?"

Like I'm already training so I would

like to fight somebody, but we don't

know what makes sense. No, let's think

about it. So we thought about we thought

about it. They thought about it. This

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>> And then we were talking about, hey,

what about what about Usyk? Does that

make sense? Was it your idea?

>> Yeah, it was our idea. I'm like, "Yeah,

that makes sense. Why not?" Because he's

the he's the top dog. He's like

undisputed kickboxing champion versus

the undisputed boxing champion. Like,

there's a story there.

>> Yeah.

>> It's like, let's just throw it out

there. Let's see what they say.

>> Okay. Pick up the phone, call them. Yo,

yo, guys. Yeah, we have an idea. So, I

pitched him the whole idea. Undisputed

versus undisputed.

Silence. Oh my god. What? What did I

just do? [laughter]

Then the first thing I hear back,

we love it. Whoa.

I said, okay, what does that mean?

[laughter]

We What does that mean? So, uh, so they

said, "You know what? We're going to

talk to Usyk's team and we're going to

come back to you." So, like, and then in

two weeks they went to Usyk. Usyk loved

the idea as well. So uh again big shout

out to him for taking that fight as well

because he had hundreds of options and

he took this fight uh outside the box.

So I love it also to uh to his

excellency Turkish for setting this

whole thing up.

>> Oh he has set up so many great fights.

He's so important to box super super

much respect for both of them and

thankful also to Jason of course for

setting this whole thing up. Yeah and

getting me into Yeah. getting me into

the conversation. Um, and then like so

that was after two weeks and then at two

weeks later we we were on a FaceTime

call for like a minute and yeah after

that they got it done like and then and

then then afterwards they said like oh

it's going to be a title fight and then

the whole world went crazy of course

like oh my god how is this guy going to

go for a world title fight? It doesn't

make any sense. I was just like let's

go. We're going to shock the world. Well

you know it's not like you had a

lifetime of striking. It's only the

difference is removing the kicks. That's

all.

>> Yeah. But the thing is like the boxing

fans, the straight up boxing fans,

they're not too much into MMA and

they're definitely not into kickboxing.

So, they had no clue,

>> right?

>> They had no clue of like,

>> right, right,

>> who who is this guy? What did he do? And

that's why also the WBC, they also had

their Muay Thai department. So, for

them, it made sense. It's like, "Hey,

Rico, with his credentials and what he

did into into in kickboxing, it makes

sense to make it a world championship

fight, but we just have to tell the

people."

>> Well, you know, it drives me nuts as a

fan of combat sports, as also a giant

fan of kickboxing, that kickboxing

>> does not get the love that it deserves

in America. It doesn't make any sense

because in MMA, the casual fans love

standup. And when fights go to the

ground, they

>> boo.

>> So like it it makes no sense to me how

you have boxing huge.

>> Yeah.

>> MMA huge. Kickboxing almost non-existent

in America. There's no big kickboxing

leagues.

>> No, but maybe because they they want to

see

>> Yeah. their own people win. Maybe. No.

>> No. It just hasn't been promoted, right?

It doesn't make any sense. It makes no

sense because their own people don't win

in MMA. I mean, there's very few

American champions. There's uh Justin

Gatechi and Sean Strickland in the

>> Yeah, but at least they're really

competitive and in kickboxing they're

>> right. That's true. But we don't care

honestly in the in MMA. No, I mean Alex

Pereira was the biggest star in the

sport is

>> Yeah, exactly. But Brazilian doesn't

speak English at all. Only speaks

Portuguese and whatever other language

is tribal language. And so you then you

have Islamace who's fighting next

weekend. huge star. Yeah. You know, from

Dagistan that no one in America, all

they care, are you the baddest

[ __ ] on earth? That's all they

care. And I really genuinely believe

that if someone came along, like I

really wish Zufa would do it.

>> Yeah.

>> Because they're doing it with boxing,

they should do it with kickboxing

because

>> kickboxing or Muay Thai, whichever they

decide, you know, I think is the most

exciting standup sport in the world. I

don't think it's even close.

>> 100%.

>> I love Glory. I [ __ ] watch it all the

time. I watch all the events. Yeah,

>> it's so exciting, man. It's so fun.

>> And the the fights are so chaotic and if

you're a fan of brutal

>> brutal and technical at the same time. I

mean,

>> some of the most amazing fights. I mean,

that's how I knew about Pereira was

because I was such a huge fan of Glory.

>> Yeah.

>> When I when he came over to the UFC, I

was like,

>> "Everyone's fucked." I'm like, "You

don't understand. [laughter] Everyone's

[ __ ] This guy's different, man."

>> Yeah, he is.

>> He's different.

>> But it was because I knew him so much

from kickboxing and he was so exciting

in kickboxing. Like kickboxing should be

huge in America. It should be. It really

should be.

>> Yeah. 100%. 100%. And it's it's a part

of MMA. So I think a lot of guys

>> a giant part of MMA. The most exciting

part of MMA is the kickboxing for sure.

>> Yeah. 100%. 100%. So

>> makes no sense. It's a it's a it is a

untapped market. If somebody figured it

out and dove in and made it, it would be

gigantic. It would have to be like the

UFC though because they you have to have

the kind of publicity machine, the kind

of media machine that the UFC has

>> to build up the stories and show these

guys and show like all the champions.

>> 100%. And but I think that's

>> in every big fight and every big

organization is where the strength is is

the storytelling.

>> Yes.

That is where I think where and also if

you ask me like when I was in glory

where it lacked on on experience like

the storytelling that where does this

guy come from? What is his background

and like you want to get to know the

person instead of just like the guy that

throws punches and kicks.

>> Exactly. The UFC does an awesome job

with that. They have a whole series

called embedded. So, like next week when

the uh Ian Garry Islam Makfev fight

takes place, they're going to have one

on Monday. So, you get up Monday

morning, it'll be there on on YouTube

and everybody will watch it and they're

like, "Oh shit." You watch that one,

then you watch the one on Tuesday, you

see them training, you see him eating,

you see him in the sauna cutting weight,

you see him doing all their press stuff,

you see him and you get hyped, man. You

get hyped.

>> Exactly. But you get drawn into like,

"Oh, this is the guy behind the

fighter." And I think that's so much

more interesting.

>> And then they have the countdown show,

which is an hour. The countdown show is

like highly produced and all this

different stuff, interviews and

conversations with their family. It's

[ __ ] amazing. And it just gets you so

jazzed up for the fight. If the UFC did

something like that with kickboxing, I

think it would be gigantic. You know,

they tried Glory in America for a while

and it was doing pretty good on Spike

TV. Remember?

>> Like they had the last man standing

tournament in Los Angeles. I went to

that. It was awesome. It's just it just

never [ __ ] caught on.

>> No, you know,

>> it was it was hard. It was Yeah, it's

too bad. So, and then after the last few

years, we were just in Europe more in

the Netherlands. That's where we Yeah.

Englor

>> One is doing a good job with kickboxing.

One FC in

>> I don't know.

>> You don't know them?

>> No. Yeah, I know about them, but I don't

know. No, I don't know. I don't know if

they're doing in the lighterweight

divisions cuz they're getting a lot of

guys from Thailand and a lot of guys

from Japan. Yeah, but they're more Asian

based, right? They're not

>> Yes. Yes. More Asian based. But they

have a lot of standup fights now. A lot

of like either they have Muay Thai with

MMA gloves on.

>> Yeah. In a cage. Brutal. And then

they're also having uh kickboxing in a

cage. And And kickboxing in a ring. They

mix it up between rings and cage.

>> Yeah. I mean, I personally think the

ring is better. I really do because I

think that there's a a lot of weird

stuff with the cage, you know, like the

cage uh especially with MMA, I don't

like it because you could you could use

it to get back up. Yeah.

>> You could like get your back against it

and pull yourself back up. You could

also use it to take people down. It's

harder to take people down with the

ring, I believe.

>> 100% 100%.

>> Yeah. So, but that's why it's it's good

for me now. Like I Yeah, I know agent.

There was [laughter] a talk about you

fighting Derrick Lewis.

>> Yeah,

>> I remember that. And then you got this

the offer to box and it was so much

money.

>> Yeah, the the Joshua fight.

>> Oh, that's right. The

>> fight that's where it started. So,

>> yeah. So, we were in talks uh because I

was a free agent. I vacated the belt.

>> How many MMA fights you have? You at

least one.

>> One. Just one. Yeah, just [laughter]

one. I did some grappling years ago, but

I just have one one professional MMA

fight. So, so after that vacating my my

belt, I was a free agent. So, we were

like, "Okay, let's yeah, dip our toes in

different water. Let's see." Yeah. Let's

see what's what's on the landscape. Now,

>> why did you decide to vacate the belt?

Cuz you had done everything you needed

to do. I did it all.

>> You cleaned out the division.

>> I did it all. So, I was like I wanted I

wanted it to to make sense. And first we

we we talked within the organization of

like, hey, I'm looking to do big stuff,

different stuff. So like crossover

events because that was getting more and

more

talked about like the big crossover

events and I think yeah in my opinion I

am one of the baddest men on the planet

so it it made sense to do it but then

yeah within the organization management

wrong management like we just yeah

didn't get it we just didn't get to a

place where it worked out. So I was like

okay let me just leave it then. So I

left it and then we talked with UFC to

see yeah what was going on there but

then yeah I got the other offer and it

made more sense.

>> Now was the other offer a one contract

fight? A one fight contract? So you're

free again?

>> I'm a free agent again.

>> Oh wow.

>> So and that's why

>> did was there any conversation at all

about a rematch?

>> Yeah. Right away, his excellency came

into the ring and he said, "You're going

to fight this guy again." That's the

first thing he said. But Kabaya also

came into the ring. Uh Ajit Kabya, the

the WBC interim champion and now the the

champion because Usyk vacated the belt

as well. So, um he also wanted his shot.

So there was like a lot of talk and like

at that moment I was there but it was

just like I don't know it was

>> chaos.

>> Yeah. Chaos. And for me I was just like

wow did this

>> they just [ __ ] you?

>> Yeah. [laughter] Did this really just

happen? And it took it took me like at

least six weeks before I watched the

fight back for the very first time after

the fight.

>> Wow.

>> Because it it's it still hurts.

[laughter] So um so yeah. Yeah. So now

I'm I'm like a free agent and I we get

we get so many we get so many offers.

No.

>> What is it like watching it and watching

the fight get stopped after the bell?

>> It still hurts. It still hurts. I'm

like, "Wow, what what did you what did

you want want me to do? You want me to

move around? Did you want me to to punch

back or whatever?" For me, like, you

know, I've been in in trouble multiple

times within my world title kickboxing

fights. I I was behind multiple times

and I still came on came out on top. So

there was for me there's no conversation

in like okay could he continue? Is he

going to continue? I never stop.

>> They don't know you. That's the other

thing is the conditioning thing. Like

your conditioning is so good. You bounce

back so quick and there's been so many

times where guys try to empty the tank

to put you out

>> and you're not going nowhere.

>> No. And it's it was just a few seconds

and a referee should know that. So next

to that like with all the experience you

know that I have within the combat

sports like it's just a few seconds. Let

it go and let me at least give me the

opportunity and give the fans the

opportunity to see that 12th round.

>> Right.

>> So oh it would have been so exciting.

>> Yeah. Oh my god. But also looking now

looking back at it because there was

also open scoring and I love open

scoring because within that gives you

the right position and gives the

fighters the position like okay where

are where where we standing within this

fight but now looking back at the fight

after eight rounds because after every

four rounds we hear what the scoring is

after eight rounds my trainer Peter Fury

says okay we gotta really start winning

these rounds now.

I was like, what? I'm I was like, am I

hearing this right? I feel like I'm

already winning these rounds. He said,

no, we're equal. We're we're equal on

the scorecards after eight rounds. So, I

was like, okay. So, in the ninth round,

I

>> even the commentators are like, what?

>> Yeah, exactly. But then I really started

pushing even more, but I was pushing

already. But if you know you're like

eight or seven rounds ahead and you feel

like you're getting tired the last two

or three rounds, just move around.

>> Yeah.

>> Tip tap and maybe you lose and maybe

it's a draw, whatever. And then still

you win. Uh because you were like five

rounds ahead, then it doesn't make any

sense. But now we had to keep pushing

>> and then oh it's like walking straight

into that uppercut like oh still it

still gets me. Oh, when I look back at

it, it's like, oh, and then that last

part, that's what I find so hard. And I

I feel like I need to work on that as a

as a human being, for myself, as a

person. I can only look at that at that

one mistake I felt I made at the end

because I gave them the opportunity to

pull this card. That's what that's

that's how it feels for me. mistake

being that you push too hard or

>> Yeah, the mistake like there was one

mistake that I made running into that

uppercut like walking straight in

swinging and we said in the in the in

the whole prep I tried that a few times

like oh that's dangerous don't do that

with us and still for whatever reason I

did that at that exact moment and that

that's what what frustrates me if I look

back at it

um because I'm I'm only I'm not looking

at what he did did well because that

uppercut was amazing. Um I'm just

looking at what I what I'm responsible

for and I'm responsible for myself and I

gave them now this opportunity by making

that mistake and that's like oh so hard

to get over that for myself. But I need

to work on that because I had the same

with the Jamal Ben Sadik fight with the

eye. I I everybody's like oh Rico you

showed them you're never giving up. But

I know I got that. I know I got that

from the inside, but I never have to

show that because the skill set is so so

big that I don't get in I don't get in

trouble. So I don't have to show that I

can continue and I'm never giving up.

But

>> I can only look at that, oh that one

mistake. Why did I do that? Then I get

the eye like

>> you're so stupid. So I can only look at

that. Yeah. It's

>> and that guy [ __ ] punches hard.

>> Yeah.

>> And he's a big fella.

>> Yeah. He's bigger than I am. Jamal Ben

Sadik is huge. Powerful powerful power.

>> It's that's uh that that's hard for but

I got to work on that for myself. Like

>> Yeah, but that's also why you're great.

[laughter]

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, you have to you have to hate

mistakes. Hate them like like they're

poison.

>> Yeah, they are.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah, they are. But you had Yeah. You

should have seen me after the fight.

Like I was I was like a big baby. I was

crying in my my hotel room like a big

big baby. I was like, "Oh my god." I was

so close at like shocking the world and

>> yeah,

>> now this happened. It was like, "Oh, it

hurts so bad." [laughter]

>> I can only to a certain extent, but

>> at least you could laugh at it a little

bit now. I can only imagine. To me,

watching it as a fan of yours, I was

like, "Oh my god, he's going to [ __ ]

pull it off."

>> I was on the edge of my seat. And when

we're going into the ninth and tth

rounds, I was like, "I don't see how

Usyk can win." No. And then when they

started talking about the scorecards, I

was like, "What the [ __ ] are they

watching? This is crazy.

>> They're looking at a different fight.

But that's so But for me,

>> either corrupt or incompetent.

>> Yeah. If if I look at it now and and for

us talking about it and for you being so

long into combat sports and being a

commentator and doing it yourself,

wouldn't it be something? Wouldn't you

be maybe a spokesman or a part could you

be a part of a way how we can make this

whole judging thing and this whole

transparency

better? Well, I think one way to do it

is to have uh more judges like Glory

does. I think five is probably the right

number. And I think another thing to do

is maybe have a bunch of people online

that are recognized experts like top

trainers, top commentators, people

people that really understand the sport

>> and maybe they get an app, maybe there's

like a special app that those guys can

judge on. So you have a collective

expert opinion

>> and you get to look at that as well.

>> Yeah. But that's what we had now. Like

if you look the the professionals, the

trainers,

>> the the commentators, they all saw the

fight a certain way, but the judges saw

>> something totally they were looking at a

different fight for some kind of reason.

>> And that's that's crazy.

>> A problem like we talked about. It's

either incompetence or it's corruption.

And I think it might be a little bit of

both. Yeah.

>> And I think maybe the corruption isn't

even conscious, but it's like they know

who the promoter wants to win. They want

Usyk to win because Usyk is where you

can get the next Tyson Fury fight or the

Anthony Joshua. Well, not Anthony

Joshua, but whoever he would decide to

fight.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, again,

>> and now it's going to be Deontay Wilder,

which nobody's calling for.

>> I don't know if it's going to happen.

Yeah.

>> Where is signed? Can you please find out

if the Anthony Joshua or excuse me, the

uh Deontay Wilder um Alexander Usyk

fight is signed? because people were

talking about that being I think they

were saying like December or something

>> they were trying for it at least I know

that's what I that's what they were

trying for but for me like that's why

for now it's

>> not officially signed yet okay

>> I'll plead to his excellency [laughter]

Turkey al-Hik this is the fight but

here's the question does Usyk want that

fight that's the question you have

[laughter]

>> I don't think so

>> a really tough fight like that fight and

And you know they ask you to do it

again. This is your last time out. He's

call I mean this is he's calling this is

his last fight. Yeah.

>> If this is his last fight and he almost

lost to you and he has the potential of

losing again.

>> They'd have to entice him with they'd

have to [ __ ] pull out that paper.

Pull out that paper. Big bag.

Okay. If I lose it is what it is.

>> No. But that's why it's so good for me

now to be in this position. I'm a free

agent. We got offers from the biggest

organizations across the world like

after this fight and

I'm just like taking taking my time

looking

>> they given you that's exciting. Can you

talk about them?

>> Uh not really.

>> No. Tell me afterwards.

>> Yeah. No. So they

>> I know a lot of people talked about you

possibly boxing Francis and Ganu or

having an MMA fight with Francis Inanu.

>> So

>> was that on the table?

>> Yeah. No. Well, to be honest, like two

weeks before the Usyk fight, uh there

was the the MVP card, right?

[clears throat]

>> But then they approached me like weeks

before uh MVP to

>> MMA versus Francis and then I was also

like right on the edge of like closing

the deal with Usyk. And so I had the two

options on the table. And yeah, to be

honest, like the the other the the the

the MMA deal, like they kept on like

stacking up, stacking up like we got

like, okay, what what if we give you the

okay, but what if we give you the okay,

let me look at this option again.

[laughter]

So, but then yeah, I just looked myself

in the mirror like I respect his

excellency and Jason gave his word and

his excellency gave his word that they

were going to do it. And if I look at

myself, I'm looking at legacy and that

Francis Naganu fight is still going to

be there after the Usyk fight. But how

crazy is that as a kickboxer coming in

fighting for a world championship within

boxing and

potentially winning because that's how I

I only have one one plan and that's

winning. So that's how I went into that

fight and you know we saw how that went

and it was

>> Didn't you wish you could kick him?

>> No, not really.

>> Not at all.

>> No.

>> Didn't you wish you could just a few low

kicks?

>> No, [laughter] because that definitely

not going to make make it to the end.

No, but that was so funny because

everybody's like, "Rico, you've been

kickboxing for so long." Like what

happens if you head kick him? Like just

like don't you have that feeling like

like guys like I've been boxing next to

doing kickboxing like for 15 years or

something. I've been working with Peter

Fury for so long and I'm used to this.

But I know for I think that's what made

me such a good kickboxer as well that I

was into boxing. But there's a giant

difference between working with a

kickboxer and even being a kickboxer and

fighting arguably the greatest

heavyweight of all time.

>> 100%. 100%. But the crazy thing was I

think

I think it was around five or six. I was

like he was jabbing me. I was just

ticking it away and I was like bum bum

bum. I'm like talking to myself in the

fight. I'm like am I out jabbing the

champ? [laughter]

This is crazy. And then my train I hear

training my trainer Dennis Rico just

keep doing what you're doing. You're

winning this fight. Let's go. Let's go.

Let's go. Because because he also didn't

want me to take too many risks. He's

like, "Okay, you won this round and then

continue from there because that's how

they were experiencing it the the fight

and the the rounds on the side.

>> Well, let me ask you this. When you

first started formulating a game plan,

did you watch a bunch I'm sure you're

already a fan of Usyk. watch, but did

you rewatch them and try to find

patterns? How did you formulate this

game plan?

>> Oh, of course. Uh, with the Yeah. My

trainer Peter Fury, uh, with the He's

Yeah, he's crazy. He's the very very

very bad best at what he does.

And we were just like analyzing these

fights like so first he already had the

thing in his in his mind and he asked me

like what do you see all these boxers do

and what they shouldn't be doing and

what do you think they should do? So I

look at it, I look at it, I look at it

and I think it basically started with if

somebody is a southpole,

why would you stay right in front of

them? That's one thing. And because you

cannot go if somebody's orthodox, you

move to the right, but you cannot move

to the right with a southpole because

you're walking straight into a left

hand. So why is nobody moving to the

left?

Because then as soon as you move to the

left, you're walking away from

>> right that that strong arm,

>> I think. And that's what we said. Exact.

Exactly.

>> Which is crazy. It's just so many people

are so stuck in their patterns,

>> the way they like to move. They like to

move to their right. Yeah.

>> That's what they like. They feel good.

They want to move to their right and

throw a right hand, but you're just

running into that power hand. It's just

crazy that

>> it's not just that, too. It's also the

size difference. Like that was one

thing. It's like you were so big in that

that ring that you were smothering him

and you were on top of him and you were

throwing those shots in tight.

>> Yeah. But the combination of those two

getting him out of that position

took away so many so many of his tools

and then like you said smothering and

getting into him and using my size

because if you ask me like all the guys

he fought are way they're they're my

size. They're way bigger than him.

Right.

>> But because the way they fought, they

couldn't use their size on him. But the

way I did it, I could. Tyson Fury did a

lot. He He used his size a lot, you

know, and he's a a different kind of

big, though. He's big and long where

you're [ __ ] thick, you know? It's a a

different thing. You're very lean and

and huge.

>> It's a different It's like the the mass

of you when you were on top of him

pushing him, you could see that it was a

factor. like he was recognizing it,

>> but it's so hard. Like if you look at

that fight that you just mentioned is

how are you going to get he he tried to

use his size, but how are you going to

get close to him walking straight into

it because he's then he's just going to

keep moving and keep mov because he's so

fast on his feet.

>> But that's what we try to do. We try to

be faster on our feet and move to the

side and then get into it and then get

close because then as soon as you

>> uh he's a software, you keep moving this

way and just keep getting closer

somewhere you're going to you're going

to be there.

>> You're going to reach him, but it takes

it takes some time. And I didn't think

if you look at the heavyweights, what

they all want to do is they want to bum.

They want to hit maybe boom boom one two

versus the very of arguably one of the

best to have ever done it. And then

especially in a cruiser rate, how are

you going to hit him in

step A,

>> right?

>> It's going to be at least step B, C, or

D. When you're going to hit him, you got

to have multiple plans. Like for me, I

was just throwing throw, throw, throw,

throw. And I know I was the the first

time I was going to hit him was maybe in

punch six or whatever because then

the distance is going to be closer. So I

didn't even think about trying to knock

his head off. That's what I said. I said

I'm that's what I'm going to do. I'm

going to try and knock his head off. Of

course I'm going to tell him that cuz

that this is definitely not what we're

going to do. I was just going to get

close, right? and keep keep working.

Keep working volume.

>> And then finally when you're there,

>> that's the moment you're gonna put in

some power. But that's like

>> maybe punch seven or eight, but the

first three, four, you're not even going

to hit. It's going to you just you're

just hitting air because he's too fast,

>> right? Yeah. He's like a giant

lomachenko.

>> Exactly. But that's how we thought about

it. Don't try and hit him in the first

two or three punches. throw them so he

has something to look at and something

to think about and then we're going to

get there. And as soon as you get there,

you smother him, boom, punch him in the

body. What heavyweight boxers have you

worked with over the years,

>> all the the the the top fighters, of

course, that's how I got with Peter

Fury. I started with Tyson Fury. Um I I

trained with uh with AJ Kabaya because

he was also in that uh um

uh in that camp back then.

U Fury uh Peter Sun, he's I think he's

he's also he's been going up and down

because of his health, but he's

definitely one of the best and he

we're going to see more of him because

yeah, he's such a good competitor, such

a good boxer as well.

uh great skill set. So there's been a

bunch of fighters that I that that we

worked with.

>> That's so massive because, you know,

sharing all that gym time with elite

guys like Tyson Fury,

>> you know, and Kobe F. Having that kind

of experience in the gym must have also

been a huge confidence boost.

>> 100%. Especially now in the this this

whole last thing is trying to get like

good South Pole fighters. Oh my god,

that's the hardest thing. The hardest

thing. And then we had one big guy and

we had one uh one smaller guy. It was uh

it was so hard. And then mixing that up.

So we started off with first the first

six with the with the big guy uh Moses

Jelly and

an amazing boxer, but he's big. He's

big. He's heavy. He's not an Usyk. He's

like twice as big as Usyk, but he's a

South. So he has that power and we could

really compete. And then after that uh

we we we jumped in with with James

Branch and he's like 90 90 kilo South

Pole. So he's like [laughter] he's like

throwing rapid fire punch like [ __ ] So

and and that change within sparring. So

doing first six with one and then six

with the other. Oh my god. That was it

was next level. It was like six months

of pure hard work.

>> Wow.

But it was so cool. It was so cool. And

it Yeah. It just opened up my mind to a

whole different to a whole different

world. And it's for being in in combat

sports since I was six.

And after all these years saying like,

okay, this kickboxing

chapter within the book is I think

that's that's done. Let's start a new

chapter.

>> Well, there's no big kickboxing fight

that can compare with what you just did.

No, exactly.

>> I mean, how old are you now? 38.

>> 37.

>> 37. Yeah. So, at that age, like you've

gota you got to like look at what you've

already accomplished.

>> In kickboxing, there's no fight that

everyone's calling out for like, oh, you

have, you know, it's not like Bhari's at

the in the prime. It's not like one big

fight.

>> No. No. So there was like, hey, and

especially with the whole uh crossover

fight

being at the biggest attention right

now, it's like, hey, I think that's this

is something we got to look at.

>> So after the fight is done,

>> yeah,

>> Turkey Alashi comes into the ring, says

you guys are going to fight again and

it's been a couple months now. So what

has happened? What what do you talk to

anybody? Has your management talked to

anybody? They they talked to because

it's been crazy like all the the biggest

organizations reached out, hey, we were

looking at this fight, we're looking at

that fight, and

>> but what about

>> what what what makes what's makes sense

for us? And that's where I'm looking at

now because like I said, I'm in I

believe I'm in the winter of of my

career. So, I'm I'm just looking at big

fights.

>> Do you have a timeline when you want to

get out? No, not it's not

set in stone, but let's let's let's see.

Let's see. But like I said, I feel like

I'm I'm so excited. I'm so I'm so happy

and I'm so grateful to be in this

position right now. So, let's Yeah. make

history.

>> Yeah. I mean, it's all about legacy,

right?

>> They [ __ ] you over, but you did win.

You got a big win out of it in that you

performed way better than anybody

expected. And and then there's also this

element where people are rooting for you

because they do think think you got

[ __ ] over%.

>> They think you were getting [ __ ] over

in the scoring and they got you got

[ __ ] over with the stoppage.

>> And so it's very marketable. And so what

my question though what I'm asking is

has anybody talked about the rematch

other than that one time

>> I knew [laughter]

I knew this was going to come.

>> I mean that's what I what I want to know

is the fight. Oh, he's talking about the

rematch.

>> That is the fight. That is that's one of

the biggest fights in heavyweight boxing

right now.

>> I know 100%.

>> If not though, it's got to be other than

Tyson Fury versus Anthony Joshua is

going to be big for England. Yeah.

Right. For them, that's an alltime

fight. Two of the all-time greats in

England. Two of the greatest British

heavyweight champions ever.

>> A little bit late, but

>> it's a little late, especially after

Anthony Joshua's last fight. That was a

scary one. I was like, whoa.

>> Yeah. But both of them

>> Yes. Both of the fights they they they

did.

>> Yeah.

>> It's not they're not the same guys.

>> No, but but it's still super excited.

Exactly. They're legends and it's a huge

fight to that finally got made.

>> Other than that, the fight is a rematch.

You and Usyk is the fight. That is the

fight in the heavyweight division right

now. There's no one else out there

that's like, you know, there's Moses

Itama who people don't really know about

enough yet.

>> Not yet. is the future.

>> 100%.

>> Oh, that guy's good.

>> Dynamite.

>> Dynamite.

>> Dynamite.

>> Fast.

>> So good.

>> Yeah.

>> And he's so slick in how he moves in and

out. Like

>> No, that's uh that's the the next

generation. Yeah. He's the future.

>> Yeah. I mean, he's like our generation's

Mike Tyson. Well, you watch him. He's 21

years old. He's coming up and you're

like, "Holy shit." He's like,

>> but other than I mean but he's doesn't

have enough experience yet and doesn't

have enough name yet for what he really

is and what his potential is. One day

will happen but for you

>> and for Usyk that and for heavyweight

boxing that's the vibe.

>> Yeah, 100% 100%.

>> I wish I was a promoter.

>> Yeah, [laughter]

>> maybe we get Dana White to get Zufa

involved.

>> Oh, [snorts] that would be crazy.

>> I don't know. What is does does uh is

there some sort of a deal that uh Usyk

has with anybody? I don't think so

because I I believe that is one of the

reasons as well why he vacated those

belts because

>> he doesn't want to deal with anybody

else.

>> No, because you when you have those

belts, you get forced

>> into fights,

>> right?

>> Like, okay, you're mandatory to fight

this guy. And that was the the I think

for him,

>> the position that he was in fighting me,

>> he could like that was a voluntary

defense. and he decided like, hey, I

would love to do this on my terms,

right, versus another guy. And

>> I think they looked at it like this

maybe going to be an easier fight, so

this is nice to do. [laughter] That

didn't go the way his planned, but

[gasps]

uh but still, I think that's where where

his mind is at now. like he like he's

like I just want to do what I want to do

which makes so much sense after what

what he has accomplished as a as

>> after what he's accomplished he should

be able to call his own shots and I want

him to make the most money possible

because he is a legend

>> but that's this that's like this is the

fight this is

>> but the problem is it might be too hard

>> it might be too hard it might be one of

those ones where which is why maybe you

know no disrespect to Deonte but he

might be looking at Deontay thinking

Deontay is a little softer

>> yeah and we're going to ride into the

sunset.

>> Yeah. Go out big spectacular knockout.

>> Yeah. But it's also then like you said,

it's not going to be the the big money

grab that because

if you ask me a

>> lot of people going to pay for that.

>> No, exactly. They're not going to be

paid that that crazy money for it.

>> It's not a big pay-per-view fight.

That's the thing. It's like people will

watch it just because he's an all-time

great and anytime Usyk fights, people

are going to watch. And Deonte still,

>> he's still the greatest one punch

knockout artist in the history of sport.

Because you never know what's going to

happen when he fights.

>> You lose is the power. His power is

[ __ ] crazy.

>> Yeah. He's G he can finish you in the in

the 10th.

>> Yeah. With one shot. Pl, you know,

>> coming out of nowhere.

>> Yeah. He hit Ortiz on the top of the

head and put him out. I was like, that

is nuts, man.

>> Yeah. Different level of power.

>> Different level of power. But again, 40

years old. It's twilight of his career

and this hasn't looked good in the last,

you know, last few years. But for Usyk

to want that fight signals to me that he

just, you know, wants to just go out

with one more payday and that's it. And

I don't know if that was his choice that

fight. Maybe that's just the internet

talking. Yeah.

>> Maybe that's Deontay Wilder's team wants

that fight.

>> I don't know.

>> Yeah. I don't know. I don't know either.

But like I said, I got I got all the

options. They gave me all the options.

Like, hey, you want to fight this guy?

You want to fight that guy?

>> So, have they talked to you about MMA as

well?

>> Uh, yeah.

>> Yeah. But yeah, I'm I'm keeping the

options open. But

>> you're leaning towards boxing?

>> Yeah, because I've been in in the boxing

game now and I've enjoyed it so much.

And that's [snorts] like for me, like I

just said, like I came from kickboxing

from being six years old and doing it

for over 30 years. And then now getting

really into boxing. I was always boxing,

but I was boxing to kickboxing. It's a

totally different game. I had to rewire

everything

>> that that was in there.

>> So

now that I did it and I performed the

way that I performed, I was like, "Yeah,

this was fun." This episode is sponsored

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[laughter]

>> I really enjoyed that.

>> Also, that is the glory division, no pun

intended, of the heavyweight division is

the heavyweight division or of of box of

box of box of box of box of box of box

of box of box of box of boxing rather is

the heavyweight division. The

heavyweight division is where the real

money is at always.

>> That is the baddest boxing. It's always

been that way.

>> And for you after that performance, I

got to think there's a lot of options

for you. Yeah, like I said, we they

threw us so many stuff at us, but we're

like, hey, we take our time, look at the

different options, and of course, still

uh his excellency has our first

preference because they gave us the

opportunity,

>> right?

>> When Yeah, we had we had

>> What was it like to fight in front of

the pyramids? That's crazy, too.

>> It was insane

>> outside.

>> It was insane, Joe. It's like

let me tell you another story. Um so

that happened uh also while I was in

this camp. Uh it's not a nice nice thing

to say but my mother passed away during

uh the moment I was in camp for this

fight and well that happened. It was it

was hard. And then we had to clean out

her house and then finally doing that

and cleaning everything. And then we

come by a bunch of pictures and yeah,

you can see it on my Instagram. And then

I see the pictures of my mother 30 years

prior being in front of the pyramids.

It's like, wow, why do I see these

pictures now knowing that this fight is

in front of the pyramids? was

mind-blowing. And so for me it was like

full circle going back. I I like

literally made the same pictures my

mother made 30 years prior before the

fight in front of the swings in front of

the pyramids and that was like uh

goosebumps. So for me having that whole

experience being in front of the

pyramids doing that

>> was like full circle. When did they come

up with that idea to have you guys fight

in front of the pyramids?

>> Well,

the way they

>> Look at that. Yeah,

>> that's crazy.

That really is crazy.

Wow.

[sighs]

Wow. Yeah,

that [snorts] really is wild. Yeah.

still uh

I don't know still like

>> of course of course

>> so it was such

>> so when did they come up with the idea

of having a heavyweight title fight in

front of the pyramids

>> yeah so

the communication is always like really

like straightforward and it they don't

say too much [laughter] So the way it

began like the first thing I got was

just like an WhatsApp picture.

We're thinking about this location.

[laughter]

That was that was the thing because

first I saw the picture, I opened it

like, "Oh, it's the pyramids. Nice." And

then after that I looked at we're

looking we're thinking about this

location like okay but how are you going

to do that? Like to me it didn't make

too much sense. And then afterwards they

said like they sent me a video like yeah

we're gonna do it here. It's going to be

outside and it's like oh my god it's

gonna be outside in front of the

pyramids. It's like

mindblowing. And that was that was also

a thing that's what I said like if it it

was like the rumble in the jungle,

>> right?

>> But then with that being said, what

people thought like what what is this

guy talking about? Is he putting himself

in the same category as as Ali and

Foreman or whatever? What what is he?

>> No, that's not what I'm saying. I mean

about the location. I never put myself

in that. Everybody that knows me like

I'm I'm super humble. So I never would

would say something like that, but

that's what I meant. Like it was

something like the Rumble in the Jungle

because we're talking about the

location,

>> right? Like

>> the location was a part of the

experience.

>> Exactly. It was it was insane, Joe.

like and then for me they asked me like

Rico can we ask you to do like a certain

choreography okay I don't want to do too

much I want to focus on fighting us so

okay only thing you got to do is like

punch the ground and then the ground is

going to crack open and then we're going

to like for the first time that evening

boom we're going to turn on the pyramids

so that's cool that sounds good I'll do

that [laughter] so I did that but it so

I punched the ground I turn around and

for the first time we see like the

ground cracking open and then then the

the lights shine onto the pyramids. Wow.

>> Wow.

>> It was it was a goosebump moment.

>> Was that your first time being at the

pyramids?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. So that's why this whole picture

and this whole thing was for me it was

like a full circle like wow it was such

a special moment such a special event.

Uh and then okay then I turn around then

my whole theme song comes up. You know

how you know how I run to the to the

ring.

>> Yeah. But that wasn't like a real

catwalk. And during the day, I already

went to see like what they expected from

me and like how I'm going to and there

was like some some small steps like down

like five or six. But then I hear my

song. I do my thing and I do and I run

to the ring, but I was like walking

straight onto these steps. I'm like, am

I going to take these steps fast? I'm

like, no, [ __ ] him. I'll just jump down.

I just decided that at the moment and

then I I landed. It was like oh this was

higher than I expected [laughter]

and I just kept on running. It's like

>> just think about like maybe I just like

spray my ankle or something like jumping

from that crazy like that. [laughter]

>> Oh my god. And it was so funny because

after afterwards the cameraman he woke

up to me. He's like I almost missed you.

You you you were jumping down just like

I'm looking at you looking at you like

whoa you were gone. [gasps and laughter]

>> That was wild.

>> Yeah, it was it was wild. It was outside

and it was the temperature was was

actually was was pretty good.

>> What was the temperature?

>> I think it was like 20 20°.

>> So that's what is that? It's like 70

something.

>> Yeah, sure.

[laughter]

>> Real swirly in that in the real mid

part.

>> Yeah. What's that, Jamie? I mean 100,

you know, is boiling and 212 is boiling

for Fahrenheit, but like zero and 30, I

don't know. Yeah, somewhere in the

middle.

>> Put it in the

>> I will here. I'll do it right here.

>> I have this on the screen. I can't.

>> What is 20° Celsius in Fahrenheit?

>> 68. Oh, perfect.

>> So, that that was nice. So, you're like,

and I I run and I whoop, I just

[laughter] I just jumped down. [gasps]

>> Wow.

>> Oh, no. It was so cool. Did it feel any

different than any other fight you've

had before? No.

>> No.

>> We've had so much. What is How many

kickboxing fights have you had?

>> 75 something.

>> 75. That's crazy.

>> Yeah,

>> that is crazy.

>> Yeah, there was Yeah, it was

>> that's a giant huge advantage of having

so much combat sports experience, you

know.

>> Yeah. But but where everybody was

leaning towards was like this guy has

one professional boxing fight. What is

he doing there? This doesn't make any

sense. Like guys, I've been in and

around the ring for quite a while now.

Like

>> I have a bunch of friends of mine that

are just boxing fans. Yeah. And they

were talking all kinds of [ __ ] Like you

know,

>> oh, so I had so many apologies.

[laughter] I had so many Rico about so

many famous boxers and like I didn't

know what you were capable of, but damn,

this was this was crazy. Like, oh, thank

you. Appreciate that. Quite honestly, I

didn't know what you're going to be

capable of either because I knew you as

a kickboxer were one of the greatest of

all time, but as a boxer, I hadn't seen

I'm like, you're taking away one of his

biggest weapons, which is the low kicks.

I mean, your low kicks are phenomenal.

You have to treat trunk legs, [laughter]

>> you know? So, I was like, that's a giant

weapon that's removed from him. Like,

we'll see. He's also fighting one of the

greatest of all time, if not the

greatest boxer of all time in the

heavyweight division. But to have that

kind of a performance and to do it the

way you did it, it's like, man, it was

it was amazing to watch. It was to as a

person who likes watching combat sports,

it was one of the most exciting things

I'd ever watched.

>> Yeah. Thank you so much, Joe. I

appreciate that. But for me, I think

what worked the in my advantage the most

was if you look at kickboxing and it's

logical like physically is like you're

so square on and everybody thought that

was what I was going to do.

>> Mhm.

>> But I was boxing always to kickbox. So,

but Peter Fury has been telling me to do

get more on the side

for years. But how as a kickboxer, am I

gonna be more on the side? They're gonna

kick my leg off. Yeah.

>> Because I can't block anymore. Yeah.

>> So,

>> I was constantly trying to find the the

balance within that. And now

>> Peter was super happy because now

finally he could teach me boxing to box.

>> Right. So I had proper stance

>> every time like, "Okay, go more to the

side. More to the side because you

you're too square on a go back. Go." So

I needed

>> the six months. Mhm.

>> It so much hard work we we had to put

into that.

>> Did you find yourself like having to

correct it mentally or did it get to a

point where it was instinctive the

stance and the positioning?

>> We had to I had to definitely correct

and they had to tell me.

>> But were you correcting in the fight? In

the fight was it down? Was it

instinctive?

>> In the fight it was

>> you gotten it in.

>> We got it down but in within the whole

prep it was

>> So you really [clears throat] do need

the six months for that.

>> 100%. 100%. So for me

um this this whole experience of getting

into boxing like it was perfect. It was

perfect for everybody around it. It was

it was really terrible of course where

where uh Anthony Joshua went through and

everything. So that the most horrific

thing ever. But for me getting into the

transition to boxing, I needed that time

to get like a clean uh transition. And

that's why I was super happy with with

the the six months and the change of of

fights of still I still I believe like

the the Anthony Joshua fight is still a

big fight that we that we could do. But

yeah, getting the opportunity to fight

for a boxing heavyweight title is on

another level big of course.

>> Oh yeah, it's gigantic. And and also

I've got to think that from that

experience, you're even better now.

>> You have to be better. You just we're in

there with the best guy ever.

>> Yeah, 100%. But the the funny thing is

like uh that's why I made the meme of uh

of Jim Carrey like [laughter] and

because everybody was like he he's

moving pretty strange. [laughter] What

is he what is he doing? But we knew that

that thing would work [laughter] versus

versus Usyk. And but we got so many more

tools in the toolbox that we can pull

out because in another fight versus a

different fighter, we're going to show a

whole different Rico again. But if we're

going to fight Usyk again, it's going to

be slightly different. But it's [snorts]

still like basically the the strategy

worked

>> well. You gave him so many things to

think about constantly. Yeah. There was

no time to set. No,

>> there was always chaos. There was always

hands moving. There was always your

body's moving, you're moving forward,

you're shuffling around. It was so much

activity that his mind has to constantly

process all these different things.

>> But normally that is what he [snorts]

does.

>> Yes.

>> And that's if you look at the whole

heavyweight division, all the his

previous fights, he was in control. He

was showing them so much. If you have

something to look at the whole time,

it's like it keeps you, it gets your

mind out of what you want to do because

you're constantly anticipating what your

opponent is doing.

>> So that's

>> Yeah. What we try to do, we try to take

that from him.

>> What were you doing for conditioning?

Like I just want to know what your

conditioning is like in general because

you are such a big guy and to be that

big and have that kind of cardio is very

extraordinary.

Um,

do I agree? Do I agree? Maybe partially

I agree with that because

to be honest at the top, Joe, everybody

works hard, right? That's what I do. I

just work incredibly hard. But

I believe that mentally when you get

tired or when your body gives signals of

starting feel to feel tired,

how do you cope with that in your mind?

That's that's where I think the the

biggest difference is because if at the

moment I feel I'm getting tired, then I

know my opponent is

feeling [ __ ]

>> Right. Right. Right. because I know how

hard I work to be fit and to do

everything possible to be in the best

shape ever. Because if you look at

training schedules or whatever from my

schedule versus another guy's schedule,

I

find it hard to believe that I'm

training so much harder than all the

other top guys. Yeah, that's my opinion.

I find that hard to believe.

So, for me, it's just like a mental