He has lost his mind. He is cognitively

disabled mad King George as it's getting

and it's getting worse.

>> Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York

Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast

Network. I'm Carara Swisser

>> and I'm Scott Galloway.

>> How you doing Scott?

>> Uh I'm tired. I took the red eye back

from Mexico.

>> Mhm.

>> But uh fortunately the infrastructure is

so superior. at the airport's in Mexico

now. Took me about 3 minutes to get and

I'm not exaggerating.

>> I agree.

>> I texted my assistant. I said, "Should I

get to the airport early?" And she said,

"Oh, no, not to worry. It's Mexico." And

I'm like, "Jesus Christ, how far

>> we're going to get into that. It's

really weird. I have to tell you, I'm so

glad I'm not traveling this week. We

traveled a lot last week for South by

Southwest and it was quite fine. It even

though it was sort of building the idea,

it was building in these airports. Um,

we'll talk about it, but I am so happy

I'm not traveling. And it seems like

airports, it's like lines, delays,

crashes, and ice. Okay, let's get to the

news. Two pilots are dead after an Air

Canada plane and a firetruck collided at

LaGuardia Airport on Sunday evening.

There's there's stoppages at Newark

everywhere. As we record this, LaGuardia

is closed. The accident comes as

airports. Chaos across the country, not

just TSA lines uh due to a DHS shutdown

because they're not paying the TSA um

security people. The Trump

administration is now sending ICE agents

into airports there. They can't wear

masks because there's no criminals

apparently. Border control uh ZAR Tom

Hman says ICE will be there to help move

these lines along. I think he was told

about it in a truth social and that he

had to do something about this. Poor

feckless guy is like, "Oh god." Trump

just announced if ICE isn't enough to

help at the airports, he'll bring in the

National Guard. TSA workers have been

calling in sick in record numbers and

more than 400 officers have outright

quit since the shutdown began in

February. They're not being paid. Um

there there was just a report that there

was an agreement between John Thun and

the Democrats which Trump rejected. This

is fully in Trump's this chaos is

Trump's chaos. Um he's uh he's trying to

send ICE to do this. Elon Musk, as

usual, because he can't, you know,

because he's a narcissistic prick, has

inserted himself into this, offering to

pay TSA salaries during the shutdown.

This is not how we want to fund

government. President Trump says um that

it's it's the Democrat's fault. It's

clearly chaos follows him wherever he

goes and he won't do any deal because of

the Democrats want to put strictures on

some ICE activities, which seems

appropriate. Um any thoughts on this?

And and airports suck for people. You're

seeing videos after video after video of

the lines, the chaos, uh the shutdowns,

the the lack of security, the

possibility of accidents everywhere you

go. Any thoughts?

>> You want another attack on the middle

class is that

probably the most obvious investment in

the middle class is investments in

infrastructure.

Because when people can get to work,

when people have more opportunities,

when people can spend more time with

their families, when people have an

absence of stress, when they can take

their kids to Disneyland,

you know, that's that's accretive to the

prosperity of their life. And a a fairly

decent metric for the progress of a

civilization and how much it cares about

its civil,

how much it cares about its middle class

is its investments in infrastructure.

And when you see this type of political

warfare breaking out, I mean, here's

what's happened. It doesn't The 1%

that that controls our government now

has their own infrastructure.

Um, I mean, I

their own their own transportation,

their own planes, their own security,

their own police force. If you just give

a little bit of money away, you can get,

you know, your own practically your own

fay in government. So, I'm not

exaggerating. I I go to the Cancun

airport,

you know, I I buy a, you know, whatever.

I bought some

>> survea

>> bad. Yeah. I bought a Modello especiial

and there was no security line and I

thought, "Oh, I have to come to Mexico

for an investment in the middle class."

>> Yeah.

>> Anyways, I find the whole thing

incredibly discouraging. Typically

before

um our podcast, I do 30 seconds of

research. In this one, I just couldn't

do it. I just couldn't do it.

>> Yeah. Well, it's not a very good look.

Who do you look? I hate to say who looks

better here, but I think this is one of

these visceral things. The way the

attacks on Minneapolis were, this is a

visceral thing that goes all over.

>> They blame Trump or do they blame

government in general?

>> I think they blame Trump. I think chaos

follows this guy and and it looks like

there's very clear reports the

Republicans tried to settle it and he

refu he's refusing. He refuses to give

in.

>> Well, that's but see that's the problem.

If you want to if you want to end the if

you want to get air traffic controllers

and TSA paid, it's pretty easy.

>> Just cancel all

immediately pass legislation that

grounds all tail numbers that are

private planes. Private planes have

their own special type of tail number.

>> They do.

>> And all of a sudden, the prunes are

going to come through the constipation

of the legislative process and they're

going to figure out a way to fund TSA.

But the people who control our

government right now, unfortunately,

aren't as affected by this.

>> No, they aren't. So,

>> and Trump doesn't care. He doesn't care

about people.

>> He doesn't like he gives a [ __ ] that

lines are long at at Hartsfield Jackson

airport.

>> Yeah. What's interesting is the airports

that are working had private private

security there like San Francisco and

some others. Um, and the ones that had

TSA obviously. And if I was a TSA

person, I would quit too. I mean, he was

urging them to stay working without pay.

No. No, just settle your differences and

everyone knows that. And then to just

send ICE in of all things. So

ineffective, so inefficient.

>> What that what was the rationale for

that, dude?

>> I don't know what they're going to do. I

think I I literally from what I the

reporting was is he tweeted it or

threaded it or whatever that whatever

he's on, truth it. And Tom Hman was

like, "Oh no, what do I do?" And they

have to all act like, "Okay, you know,

we have to do some like of course we're

on it, but they're not on it. It's like

crazy mad King George." I think what we

have to have a conversation about and

we'll talk about Iran is he is lo he has

lost his mind. He is cognitively

disabled mad King George as it's getting

and it's getting worse as you saw from

the tweets. Let's as we record he says

he's postponing strikes on Iranian power

plants for 5 days claiming productive

talks with Iran uh to end the war. Iran

is denying the talks with the US just as

US presidents denied talking with Trump

about how what a good idea it was. I

think he's having com he's like Nixon.

He's talking to the portrait on the

wall. Over the weekend, Trump was

threatening to obliterate uh Iran's

power plants if the straight of Hormuz

wasn't reopened. Then he said he wasn't.

And then he said he was in Cox and then

he said this. He says a lot of things.

It changes from absolutely minuteby

minute. Iran said it would irreversibly

destroy essential infrastructure across

the Middle East if the US attacked its

energy sites. They are not backing down.

They are a lot stronger than Well, Trump

didn't do any homework at all. oil

prices fell and stocks rose after Trump

postponed these uh strikes be but he

threatened them and he may threaten them

again in the next 15 minutes. He seems

to be literally changing his everything

by the second. Um he probably got

spooked by oil and gas prices. High gas

prices in the last few weeks are

sparking uh more interest in electric

vehicles. We'll get to that in a second.

But where are we this? Because this this

shifting is is literally minuteby

minute. Like it's not it's like there's

four minutes that goes by and then he

says something different than the

previous thing he just said when he gets

in front of a microphone.

>> Well, this is a continuation of just a

total lack of objectives and no ability

to communicate what the objectives are

such that he could declare victory and

win. It feels as if it's spinning out of

control. A clear lack I mean at some

point in confidence comes to Roose. I I

was always thinking it's just amazing

that [ __ ] hasn't gotten worse or we

haven't had a disaster when he keeps

appointing podcasters and talk show

hosts and conspiracy theory theorists to

the most important positions in America

and now we're starting to see that come

to fruition. Of course they were going.

One of the downsides of globalization,

incredible prosperity, a lowering of

prices. Um, you know, you outsource

comparative advantage. Globalization, I

would argue on the whole, has been just

an unbelievable unlock incentive

cooperation. The problem with

globalization is it creates a series of

choke points that can bring the global

economy down. One of those choke points

>> are the straits of Hormuz. And a lot of

people said it was a choke choke point,

but whoever was saying that they weren't

>> they weren't listening to. and you have

effectively the world is likely going to

go into some sort of fairly either

modest or maybe even a deep recession.

Um, and everyone talks about our energy

independence. Yeah, we're strategically

from a defense standpoint not that

vulnerable, but we're going to have to

pay the same higher prices as everyone

else. And even even the numbers around

well prices were down today because he

claims to be having talks. There's now

fear that uh he's sending combat troops

and amphibious vehicles into the region

and

>> then he said he wasn't then he said he

was then he said he was and that they

they're going to try and maybe take the

island of Kar which is responsible for

95% of the throughput in exchange for

them opening hormuz the president of

Finland said that Europe should support

the efforts to uh escort ships to the

straight of Hormuz in exchange for Trump

committing to supporting Ukraine. And

what's interesting about

>> what's interesting I think or the

dynamic I'm seeing emerging here is the

key word that's coming out of both this

>> this war and the war in Ukraine is one

word asymmetry and that is well two

words asymmetry and distraction and that

is generally speaking the world's powers

shaped by economics and military

strength and if you go to the latter

military strength was a function of

really expensive sophisticated platforms

of which only a few nations could

produce just a small number of them and

they were devastating. Now it's moving

to the following dynamic. A a um a

Shahed drone costs 25 to $40,000,

but the Patriot missile to shoot it down

costs 4 million.

>> Yeah.

>> And so all of a sudden you have the

ability to create cheap and cheerful

massive armaments.

>> Yep. using AI and GPS that can overwhelm

the most sophisticated machines

>> speedboats. You know, I had that

interview with with Tender Warner where

he talks about this. He's like

>> aircraft carriers versus zodiacs

>> weeks ago. He's like, "Look, we're going

to lose cuz this drone that costs

nothing is going to, you know, det is

going to hurt our ships or these these

Zodiacs or whatever it happens to be."

But they have the ability to do this.

And I think they miscalculated just how

many of them Iran had and just how

strong the government was. I think they

I think both Israel and the United

States thought there'd be a popular

uprising. There hasn't been. Um it

certainly could happen, but it doesn't

seem to be happening because as Warner

noted quite correctly because he does

his homework. This group of people have

has a grip on power there. terrible

group of people, but they they are in

control of this comp country in a way

that Trump did not seem to understand. I

guess

>> he didn't anticipate them attacking

their neighbors. I think long-term

that's a strategic blunder on their

part, but we used to worry that our

aircraft carriers might be

>> vulnerable to a Chinese hypersonic

missile. It's not. They're vulnerable to

hundreds of Zodiacs going 30 miles an

hour. And

also, I mean, I mean, it's the the

reason why Ukraine has, despite

unbelievable odds, been able to push

back against a far superior military

power and economy and Russia is the same

reason

>> that Iran is a greater threat and is

able to create more disruption now than

we had anticipated. And it's all comes

down to this one word,

>> asymmetry. And then the second word is

distraction. And that is and Fred

Zakaria did a fantastic piece on this at

the end of the at the end of the 20th

century. Britain was the world's

dominant superpower controlling about a

quarter of the world's GDP very similar

to what we control. And they got bogged

down in a series of conflicts overseas

that took away their political, their

economic and their military focus and

weaken them at home such that Germany

could industrialize.

>> Yeah.

>> And that we might be falling into the

same trap. a little group of Americans

with just guns and some moxy, you know,

that's the kind of thing. I mean, you

have to sort of make these historical

links because no one would have thought

we would have beaten the British, right?

But we had more at stake, right? Or we

had more reasons and good reasons. Um,

but I think I think the problem is again

Trump equals chaos. It's like it doesn't

have a point. The this this airline

thing doesn't have a point. It's going

to hurt airlines. It's going to hurt

customers. It's going to hurt travel and

tourism. Uh it's going to get people not

to travel. It's going to hurt the

economy in all manner of ways. And the

same thing with this. It's going to hurt

everybody. Now, interestingly, with this

oil and gas price spikes, high prices

are sparking more interest again in

electric vehicles, which had seen a

fall-off. And searches for EV models are

up quite a bit, 20% here in the US since

the Iran conflict begin. It's not just

in the US. BYD dealerships across Asia

are also seeing a spike in demand. Um,

it's a really interesting moment because

for people who don't understand, let me

tell you, range anxiety is really going

away. It's in a way that's really

significant.

>> I'm sorry. You said range anxiety.

>> Rain range anxiety anxiety. People worry

about not being able their cars will run

out of electric essentially and that is

not doesn't exist now.

>> What can take away anxiety? I'm in.

Right.

>> I tried Xanax last night and even that

[ __ ] didn't work.

>> No, just a plug. That's all you need is

a plug. And these

>> I have several of those, but I do that

for fun.

>> Yeah, exactly.

>> Oh, wait. No, I'm sorry. An electric

plug. Excuse me. Never mind.

>> Called for. Anyway, electric vehicles

are seeing a spike. This is not a

surprise. But I have to say uh for the

first time in my I have of a gas car and

electric car. I'm thinking of just going

all electric because I don't feel range

in. That's the issue is that I better

have a car to get out of here in case of

the apocalypse essentially.

>> Well, that might be. Okay. So that might

be if there is a silver lining here over

the medium and the long term.

>> It does put a you know $60 a barrel oil

does not help alternative energy.

>> It doesn't.

>> And

this I don't think this is going to be

worth the price. I've been more

optimistic about the potential outcomes

of this this what should have been a

conflict or a military operation out of

war than most people. But hopefully this

does give a renewed focus on I mean if

China hadn't busted a very strong move

to alternatives they would be really

[ __ ] and they're still [ __ ] but it

kind of renews the importance of being

independent and not being subject to

these choke points around

>> in a variety of ways not just

>> and actually did I tell you this your

>> your ex-wife

>> Mhm.

>> we spoke at where was I?

in South by Southwest.

>> Yeah.

>> And she ran after, of course, my

favorite South by Southwest moment was

after a talk, she came up and started

answering questions for me as people

were asking me questions.

And by the way, her answers were pretty

good. He's very

>> Anyways, she this time she ran after me

as I was headed out and because I was

talking about Iran and

>> could be anything

>> and she showed me the site

>> and it shows at any given moment

>> where Texans are getting their

electricity for air conditioning and

everything.

>> Oh yeah, she's on to the Texan thing.

>> And at that moment she pulled it up, 60%

of the electricity

>> Mhm. was coming from wind power in Texas

and another 18% was coming from solar.

So Texas which is supposed to be the

epicenter of oil and gas and land man

>> at that moment was getting 78% of its

energy electricity.

>> Yeah.

>> From um from renewables.

>> Yeah.

>> Anyways I I I the

>> this is getting it is so the the

incompetence chickens are coming

>> to roost

>> to roost.

>> Yeah. Yeah. you know, the rightwing is

going the right-wing podcasters are

really going after Heg Seth and Trump on

the war and stuff

>> and we need to be really thoughtful

about um this whole notion of asymmetric

warfare. It just you can't and it's so

interesting. They launch multiples of

these drones and they change altitude so

the GPS locators trying to fight back

get confused and then but Ukraine is

coming up with all sorts of sorts of

defense drones. It's just going to open

up an entirely different I I think

you're going to see massive uh and you

you actually pointed this out that

Ukraine uh is gonna is going to assuming

we ever get to something resembling a

state a sustainable peace that gives

people the confidence to invest.

>> You're going to see an unbelievable I

think technology boom there around

defense.

>> Actually, if I were like advising my son

Alex and go to Ukraine when this is all

over and you will have you will be a

billionaire. like it'll be it's so it's

going to be so exciting there. I think

there's corruption issues there very

significant including with Zilinsk's

government and stuff especially with

Galenc's government but yes it's

absolutely an opportunity. What's really

interesting here is um is is again all

of this has chaos attached to it and we

do not need more chaos anyway and by the

way on our 250th birthday coming up

guess who did this that kind of military

tactics the US revolutionaries. um in

order to beat the very much more

organized and much more um at the time

militarily uh superior British. Anyway,

>> let's go.

>> But we just hid behind trees. We refused

to march in a first we were we refused

to march in a straight line.

>> No, we didn't do marches. We didn't

>> and have bright red coats that were

great targets at dusk and night.

>> Yeah.

>> So funny. You're in my algorithm. I I

got served that great tomahawk scene of

Mel Gibson with his and his kids killing

like 90

>> Yeah. I can't stand Mel Gibson as Mel

Gibson, but I love all his movies.

>> Oh, he's a fantastic one. I know, but

he's a terrible person. Anyway, um I do

I love all those movies. I hate that I

love them, but I love them. Every one of

them.

>> Fantastic.

>> Anyway, that's the Patriot you're

talking about. That's the Patriot. Yeah.

Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break.

When we come back, Elon loses in court.

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Scott, we're back with more news. A jury

found Elon Musk liable for misleading

Twitter investors in the run-up to his

purchase of the platform in 2022.

Damages could reach up to $2.6 billion.

Musk legal team obviously plans on

appealing the ruling. He also he also

didn't have the the worst of the of the

things he didn't the jury didn't find

around fraud and everything else. Um, by

the way, he's been very busy this week

besides offering to pay TSA. He's uh

busy he's got to shut up. I felt like

that this week. He's busy keeping his

hands in politics. He's been fixated on

advocating for the passage of the Save

America Act, a strict voter ID bill,

attacking Senate Majority Leader John

Thun in the process, even though there's

very little um evidence. And by the way,

the New York Times is just outright

saying it that there there is any voter

fraud in these areas or examples of it.

He's still holding influence in Ukraine,

by the way, in a positive way, having

cut off Russian forces, Starlink

internet access last month. That's cuz

they were getting them through the black

market. The Russian forces using

Starlink and he cut them off. Very good.

Good job, Elon. Let's give you kudos for

that. And over at his other business,

Tesla seemed semi-truckss are finally

here actually winning over truck

drivers. It looks like a pretty good

product. And Tesla says as Tesla and

SpaceX will launch Terrafab chip project

in Austin because semiconductor

manufacturers aren't making chips fast

enough. Um that's not a surprise. I

think everyone's doing that. Everyone's

going to be doing that. But sort of it's

a mixed bag here. This this jury trial,

we'll see. He'll probably like exhaust

them with appeal after appeal. But the

jury didn't like what they heard how he

behaved. And he still has never paid for

his misbehavior when it comes to the SEC

and others. He tends to win or get off.

Um, any thoughts on that or any of these

topics?

>> The definition of market manipulation is

what he engaged in. If I were on a board

and I went out and and said falsely on

Twitter that as a board member with

insider information, we have funding

secured to take this company private at

a 40% premium to market and the stock

ran up and then it ended up not to be

true and all the people who bought those

shares at an elevated price. I think I'd

be in jail. I know I could never serve

on board of directors again,

>> but here's the problem. He's gonna be

found I think he's gonna be found

guilty. I think he's going to be fined

$2 billion and it doesn't [ __ ]

matter. And

>> the the right answer is is just

>> But he was found guilty. Let's the

damages in this. It's not guilty. It's

>> But he'll appeal it, right?

>> He's appealing. It's liable, not guilty.

Just

>> I think excuse me, because it's a civil

case, it's liable. Thank you. But here's

the here's the unfortunate thing. It

doesn't [ __ ] matter to him. And it's

not a the point of a justice system is

not only punishment, but it's to create

incentives so people don't do things

again. And in not only criminally, but

in civil litigation. And what we need to

move to is what they're proposing with a

wealth tax. And that is the whole point

of a wealth tax is we're going to take a

percentage of your wealth. And now I'm

against wealth tax tasks, not

theoretically or philosophically, but

practically they just don't work. But we

need to move to some sort of

proportionate civil liability fines. And

that is the following. It's not a $2

billion fine. It should be 20% of your

net worth. And that is if you if you

commit this type of market manipulation

that where people lose faith in the

markets, you don't own $2 billion. You

owe 20% of your net worth. Uh otherwise,

what is the incentive not to do this

again?

>> Yeah. So, so and the same thing should

be happened uh should happen with when

Meta has is when Meta is found guilty of

creating addictive products and so is

Alphabet. It should

>> that's the other case.

>> It shouldn't be a billion dollar fine.

It should be 10% of the market

capitalization,

>> but it won't be. So, what's going like

here the juries now? It's interesting.

It wasn't a judge trial. They decided to

do a jury trial. So, jurors do not like

this guy obviously. And he's he very

clearly

>> he's not a sympathetic character.

>> He's not a sympathetic character

anymore. And he has gotten off on the

pedo thing. He got off on the 420 thing.

He got off on funding secure. He's

gotten off over and over again. And what

he either he either wears people down or

continues to attack, right, when he lost

in in court to the Center for um

countering digital hate, he went back

again or he pushed the government into

bothering the the person who founded it.

I mean, this is the thing is he just

keeps on coming and like this fixation

on the save act, which is evidence-free

um that there's issues that they're

trying to solve here. And at the same

time, here he is doing this kind of cool

technology in Ukraine or the truck or

the the I don't know if he's going to be

successful in the chip project, but I

wish he would just do that, right?

>> I mean,

um I was going to say it's called Pivot,

but there could be a podcast. It's

called Musk. He creates so much news. I

mean the guy is a big thinker and

creates a lot of news. Look, I am I am

super excited about the prospect.

Uh I I'm anything that helps the brave

people of Ukraine and their army defend

against Russia and push back on it. I I

applaud I applaud Elon for doing this.

I'm thrilled about it. At the same time,

it represents something much scarier and

that is there shouldn't be one

individual that has the ability who is

unelected

and not subject to any sort of

>> what he feels like.

>> The biggest criticism I would argue the

big

>> say if he got Molly from the lady in the

bathroom.

One of the most valid criticisms of

Trump's unilateral war with just one

other country is he didn't even he

didn't even get any sort of advice or

approval from Congress much less do what

George Herbert Walker Bush did and that

is get a consent or get approval from

the UN.

>> He acted some people would argue

unilaterally. Now a lot of people would

say he didn't act unilaterally. He got

79 million votes. Okay.

Musk is changing the face of war.

Fortunately for what I think is in the

right direction

>> in this case

>> but should that's right but should one

man be able to accrete so much wealth

and technical mastery that he or she

>> can change the course of civilization

and war

>> this is we keep talking about the wisdom

of crowds the ignorance of the

individual is really frightening

>> yeah I like that the wisdom of crowd the

ignorance

>> I just made that up I think the kicking

in you always do things like this so

you're just being nice to me cuz we got

in an argument this weekend

>> we did we But now that's done.

>> The

it is d power corrupts and absolute

power absolutely corrupts and we should

not have any individual that accreted so

much wealth and power and technical

sophistication that they can change the

course of civilization. Now some people

would argue that Napoleon did that or

Genghask Khan

>> but these people were incredibly

>> people who've done that

>> but they were incredibly savvy and they

worked their way through power

structures and ultimately ultimately

they fell but I am uncomfortable

with someone who is not elected by

people who's not accountable to anybody

who can pay his way out of or appeal his

way out of any civil or possibly

criminal I mean Christ I I hate to go

The only person imprisoned from the

Epstein files is a woman,

>> right?

>> And so it's it's okay if

>> she should be there.

>> I'm not arguing that. My my belief is

there should be other people in the

cells next

>> agrees. Yeah.

>> Looks like they shut down a lot of these

investigations right at the beginning of

the Trump.

>> But what happens when

But what happens if Musk all of a sudden

decides, I'm pissed off with the left

criticizing me. I'll show them. and he

turns off Starlink in the middle of a a

ground offensive trying to push Russia

trying to push Ukraine out of

>> you know

>> I'm just telling you it's up to the lady

in the bathroom with Molly that's the

problem seriously

>> but that's that kind of that but that

kind of summarizes

>> what does he feel like today did he get

did he have a nice night with his lady

friend or did he have a bad fight

>> so to a certain extent Donald Trump in

some ways well I mean is more dangerous

but what's more dangerous someone who

commands the US military

>> or someone who commands two of the

world's low earth satellites.

>> Yeah.

>> But has

>> I say Musk Musk

>> but is not elected by the public. I mean

you can make the argument that okay no

we chose Trump.

>> We did we didn't but but Congress we

also believe in three parts of

government and that's

>> agreed. But he has more legitimacy.

>> Correct.

>> He has more legitimacy to make these

type of decisions than Musk.

>> Yes. But not this decision.

>> I when I first heard this I'm like oh

that's great. Good for him. I even put

out a thread saying, "Well done, Elon

Musk."

>> And then I thought, "Fuck,

>> what I don't I want him to have to go to

Senators Kelly, Clolobashar, the Joint

Chiefs of Staff."

>> What should I do? He may have

>> and Senator Warner. You think he might

have?

>> I don't know. I don't know.

>> He might be coordinating. That's a fair

point. Maybe it's coordinating with our

joint joint chiefs.

>> My doubt. Who knows? I I suspect he's

probably in I mean, I don't know. When I

got approached many years ago by that

Ukrainian defense person asking if I

could call him to turn to stop geoencing

Crimea, I was astonished and they were

like, "Could you do that?" I'm like,

"Why is one person deciding this?" like

why isn't the I remember that's was the

center of our beef at the I was it was

anyway um

>> but also I do want to say I do think

just calling balls and strikes I think

the

>> the Tesla semi-truck is a winner

>> looks great looks great it's a winner

looks great we give you that it looks

good we'll see how how if they can roll

it out but it looks great um agreed

agreed it looked I was looking I was

reading all about it this weekend looks

fantastic

>> and not only that but that is

>> he could make innovative things that's

where he should focus is clearly a

genius. All right,

>> stop focusing on hate, Neon. Focus on

the things you do that are good.

>> And I've always thought that ground zero

ground the most obvious autonomous

something like 90% of the damage done to

our highways is trucks.

>> Yeah.

>> And you talk about a 10 to 4 10 p.m. to

4:00 a.m. It's not a great job. It's not

a healthy job.

>> So, it's always felt like if there's if

there's ground zero for autonomous, I've

always thought it's long haul trucking.

Yep. You should look at my interviews

with the Aurora CEO Chris Erson who

started Google the Google autonomy.

>> Well, I was going to say how is Aurora

doing but I don't want to go.

>> Yeah, I don't I'm just saying I love all

these efforts and I'm thrilled with I've

never wanted to own a semi-ractor

trailer. I'd like one of those.

>> You are absolutely not getting one.

Never. I I don't think you've ever

driven me anywhere and I don't think

you're ever going to um the Trump I grew

up in California. I'm sick from the age

of 15. We have never you have never

driven me in a car. Well, what do you

want? Two sensitive men so both people

can be crying in the car in the parallel

parking spot remains.

>> I've driven you. I have driven you in a

car, but I don't think you've ever

driven.

>> You're You are You're a good driver. It

was in a mini. You were in a

>> I don't think anyone would say that. I'm

an angry driver. I try not to drive as

much as I can. Anyway, let's

>> sit on two phone books. That was a

little unsettling.

>> No, you didn't. You're a big guy.

Anyway, the Trump administration sealed

the steering wheel. I put you in a mini.

I did it. I put you in a mini. I sit way

up front. So, the Trump administration

has also unveiled a national, speaking

of control of tech oligarchs over our

government, unveiled a national AI

framework to replace state-by-state

rules with one federal standard. The

framework proposes regulations like

child safety rules and standards for

energy use of data centers. It calls on

Congress to address issues like

intellectual property rights and

preventing AI systems from being used to

silence or censor lawful political

expression or descent. The

administration says it wants to work

with Congress to convert the framework

into a bill in the coming months. I

mean, I'm sorry. They are so everyone

involved in the government right now is

a tech industry shill. So it this is not

the states have passed I think 71 laws

in 27 states. It is chaotic. At the same

time the government has abregated all

power to these tech companies. So I

don't I don't think any good will come

of this. Your thoughts

>> there needs to be federal legislation.

>> Absolutely.

Because if California in an attempt to

maintain its economic growth all of a

sudden puts in place technologies that

might inhibit the growth such as okay

you can't use AI for surveillance of

Americans. I mean the CIA has a rule the

central one of the most covert

organizations in the world which I by

the way I think is the only organization

in history that can keep a secret.

They they have a rule. You can't they

don't kill American citizens. There

needs to be there needs to be regulation

and legislation around AI and it needs

to be a thoughtful discussion and then

but what I hate is just a all of a

sudden a race to the bottom around AI

where okay, Texas says it's a

free-for-all and you can use it to

surveil Americans or create

>> I get it. It's just our government has

not our federal government never made so

social media laws. They never made

privacy laws. Well, they're not making

laws, but they're saying

>> they're not doing this to create better

laws. They're doing it to get everyone

out of tech way

>> to delay and obuscate any attempt to

regulate. Yeah, I think that's

>> if they were doing it for they would get

together with Congress and do actual

laws that are in everybody's interests.

Uh and and that and that tech would be a

voice of many in this thing. They don't

want to. Let me say this is yet another

attempt to abregate. States are the only

groups that are doing something somewhat

effective and they shouldn't be doing it

but they have to because the government

has lo the federal government has lost

all responsibility for regulating what

is a very frightening situation uh that

we should all be cooperating not just in

this country but globally around AI

safety where it's going who's you know

on jobs on child safety on cancer

research on everything there should be

rules about surveilling citizens etc

etc. We are not, this is not an

administration I trust to do it because

everyone in a position of power has

someone else behind them who is in tech

and they are all grabbing for things.

Thank you.

>> Oh, in 2025, seven of the largest AI

companies in America, Snap X, OpenAI,

Bite Dance, Microsoft, Alphabet, and

Meta spent over $50 million on federal

lobbying. And by the way, best ROI in

history. It's not AI or capex, it's

lobbying. and in 2025 hired 87

lobbyists, roughly one of every six

members of Congress. Open AAI has ramped

up its lobbying spend nearly 70%

from last year. What's interesting is

one of the greatest brand declines in

history over this over the shortest

period of time. AI.

>> Think about how excited we were about AI

just 24 months ago. One, a Pew Research

poll found that Americans are five times

more concerned than excited about AI.

There are roughly double the amount

Americans who think AI's effect on

society will be negative than there are

people who think it'll be positive.

>> Worse brand destruction. You're right.

It

>> the brand erosion in AI is historic.

>> Twothirds of Americans think that AI

will eliminate more jobs than it

creates. Less than a third of Americans

trust AI and 3/4 of Americans think AI

poses a threat to humanity,

>> existential threat. Let me just say

ahead of the midterm, Silicon Valley has

poured a hund00 million into a network

of packs and organizations to advocate

for these strict AI regulations. And a

report from Public Citizen found that

one in four federal lobbyists now work

in AI. Think about why do you think

they're working there, kids? They're not

to help you. They're they're there to

help them. and they have the White House

captive. In any case, it would be a

great idea to do some bills, but not

with this administration, not in its

current form.

>> But this is the opening for a Democrat.

I spoke to someone this morning running

for president and

>> there no one on the Democratic side has

been able to say we need federal AI

regulation focused on these three

things.

>> No one has been able to articulate what

is needed around regulation and AI. And

it is a real opening for one of them

because it's the technology of the day.

It has got it's created a huge amount of

anxiety and yet no one has been able to

articulate a vision for what sensible

regulation that protects Americans while

while ensuring that our thorough breads

continue to run because there really is

economic value and we don't want to

hamstring our best and brightest such

that China gets out ahead. There are

real concerns on both sides, but someone

needs to thread the needle here and come

out and say AI regulation at a federal

legislation focused on the following,

you know, three things. It's a big

opening for a Democrat.

>> You know, you I just did a two-hour

interview with Tristan Harris. He said

the exact same thing. It's a big opening

for

>> Tristan. He's so good. You know, we've

been talking for 10 years about this

issue. Just

>> Yeah. Now, he was early to the to the I

hate big tech game. He's very

compelling, too.

>> You are incorrect. He does not. He's

like Cara Swisser. He does not hate it.

He doesn't like what they're doing with

with they made a mess of our house.

That's how I feel. Anyway, let's go on a

quick

>> I feel shamed.

>> I feel

>> I feel shamed.

>> He's a great new documentary coming on

called The Apocaloptimist.

AI apocalyp.

>> Apocalyptus.

>> Apocaloptimist. It's called the AI.

>> Not a creature that lives at 30,000 ft

below the surface. Sperm whales who

lives in the bathroom with the woman who

has

>> Molly.

Let's go on a quick break. When we come

on apocaloptimus. All right, let's go on

a quick break. When we come back, Nextar

is approved to merge with rival Tegna.

>> Support for the show comes from Vanta.

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Scott, we're back with more news.

Broadcast station owner NextStar will

merge with rival Tegna after the FCC

signed off on the $6.2 billion

acquisition, creating the largest

operator of TV stations in the country.

This is unprecedented. The commission

has waved the rule that bars a single

company from owning TV stations that

reach over 39% of the US households.

Guess what? The new entity uh is

allowing Nextar to own 60% and near

doubling. The combined company would own

over 250 stations reaching over half of

American households. Eight states have

filed emergency motions to stop the

merger. As usual, Brendan Carr, the

bureaucratic toad, just waved it right

through because it's their conservative

and they are um uh and they are they

were thanking President Trump. They're

the people behind the Kimmel mask.

They're one of the people uh

conservatives are actually split on the

issue. Um some thinking it's a great

thing because it helps the conservative

side, their team. The other people feel

as correctly, you wouldn't like it if a

bunch of liberals own these like 60% of

the stations. That said, mainstream

media has leaned well, it's leaned

middle left, middle left kind of things.

Um, just what do you think about this? I

mean, obviously this is open. This is

something This is Rupert Murdoch's wet

dream from many years ago. The ability

to own things across the country.

Although, who's watching local news at

the same time?

>> I'll tell you who's watching local news.

Really old people. Exactly.

>> I could program local news. It's called

What Stupid People Did Today. Two people

were mugged in a Two people were mugged

in a parking lot at 4 a.m. this morning.

>> Yeah.

>> Um

>> or the it could happen to you story

>> and the weather

>> killer bees. It could happen to you.

>> It could happen to you. Mold on your

penis. It could happen to you.

>> Is is your Are you losing hair because

of your drinking water? Um

>> could happen to you. I'm I'm torn

because the idea of any one entity

controlling that much information flow

to a populace that disproportionately

votes

it it feels feels uncomfortable. At the

same time

um these companies are in structural

decline and the only way they survive is

through consolidation and cost cutting.

I was on the board

it's now time for the latest episode of

Scott's weak flexes. I was on the board

of a company that was a Yellow Pages

company.

>> Oh, I didn't know that one.

>> It's one of my best investments because

typically these companies, we know we

know local stations are [ __ ] but

they're not they're not going to go out

of business as quickly as people think.

So, for example, in 1999, you could buy

a Blockbuster. Everyone knew Blockbuster

was going away, but in 1999, you could

buy a Blockbuster franchise for two

times cash flow. And they did go away,

but they went away 13 years later. I

mean, you you four or six

>> money. Yeah.

>> So, you can buy these things. at pretty

distressed prices and then you need to

consolidate the back end. Back to the

yellow pages company. We knew that the

yellow pages business was going to go

away. You could buy these things at two

times cash flow. So we would go buy

every regional yellow pages company

quite frankly consolidate the backend

which is Latin for layoff everyone but

the salespeople. And then we went and

bought the biggest yellow pages company

in Canada and then the biggest one in

Australia. And it's a great business.

Now to a certain extent is that bad? Is

that too much concentration of power? So

these companies are melting ice cubes.

They need to consol.

>> They were when the yellow pages

mattered. But go ahead. Which they did,

kids.

>> But it's the same thing here. The these

businesses are going out of business

slowly. And so I'm I'm of two minds. I

don't trust this FTC to make these

decisions. I'd want to see an economist

say

>> FCC,

>> I'm sorry, the FCC. I'd want to see an

economist

issue or thoughtful people say that the

the risk of job destruction, the risk of

having the capital to do anything

regarding the investigative journal

journalism at city hall or the local,

you know, lo local courthouse that these

guys need to consolidate. Having said

that, this level of concentration feels

pretty unhealthy.

>> Yeah. Yeah. 60 is a lot. I think you're

right. I, you know, when remember we

were on when we were on the tour and you

know or I was on one thing and everyone

was asking me about CBS and I'm like

show of hands of who's watching it and

it was like no one

>> relevant

>> and I thought so we're worried about one

irritating person at a station that's

mean a network that's declining faster

than all the others by the way. The

other two are doing okay. They're double

in size essentially. I was like, "So, no

one's watching it." And even the

strongest player is slowly dying, you

know, who's doing okay. And then they

definitely throw off a lot of money,

right? Like your yellow pages thing did.

Right now, they

>> in 2017% of America watched the Academy

Awards. Do you know what percentage

watched last year?

>> They went down, right? Like three

>> 5%.

>> Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. And so

you're sort of sitting there, you're

like, okay, it's really irritating and

grotesque and at the same time of this

consolidation and these people that are

doing, you know, performative, you know,

uh, [ __ ] to Donald Trump, which they

were, you know, around Kimmel and

there's no such thing as a performative

[ __ ] That's an oxy.

>> I don't know. I have never done one. Um,

I'm not going to go into the

>> I'm not going to touch that.

>> Don't touch it.

>> I finally have a filter that says you

should say nothing, Scott.

>> Let me say I haven't had sex with a man,

but I have not have done a blow job.

Anyway, thank you for that information

cuz I that's gross. Um,

>> well, you know, Taylor Swift writes all

these writes all these songs about men

breaking up with her, but she's never

written a song about [ __ ] Connect

the dots. Okay. Connect the dots.

>> Okay. All right. Um, in any case, um, I

had the most interesting Anyway, I'm not

going to go into it. Um, so I have a

whole Gay Taylor thing called the my

Gaylar playlist on Spotify. Listen to

Cornelius Street is all I can tell to

everybody. Um, so let me get what am I

getting? Getting back on track.

>> Oh man, you've been thrown off by

>> I've been thrown off track by [ __ ]

Um, I don't I don't think it matters.

And yet it does because these they do

have an impact on a certain population

and watching someone like my mom or

other people get twisted by propaganda

on say a Fox News, it does actually

matter, right? It's really bad

information. That said, I don't think

most of these local stations except for

a very small few h do journalism

anymore. So,

>> they matter in local politics.

>> That's right. That but they don't do

much journalism and I don't think they

matter much.

>> Hurst did Hurst did this genius move and

it went bought all the local news

stations and swing districts because

basically the dirty secret of specialty

retail is that for 45 weeks a year it

loses money and then for seven weeks it

just breaks into a [ __ ] ton of money.

Basically between Thanksgiving and

Christmas. The dirty secret of these

local news stations in these swing

districts

>> is they lose money for 22 months and

then for two months they quintuple their

ad rates as so and so overspends trying

to you know trying to be the local

representative.

>> Yeah, that's where it hurts.

>> But do you know do you know the average

age of a Fox viewer? The average

>> 69 70.

>> That's exactly right.

>> I think that's young.

So that means that if a 40-year-old

accidentally turns on Fox, a 97y old is

also watching. Do you know what the

average age of a local TV Do you know

the average age of a local TV news

viewer?

>> 70 80

>> dead. They're dead. Cara.

>> All right, Scott. One more quick break.

We'll be back for wins and fails.

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Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and

fails. May I go first?

>> Of course.

>> I'm going to do a win. Let me just tell

you, Project Hail Mary just brought in

$80 million at the box office. That's a

record opening for Amazon. MGM I did. I

went on Friday night.

>> I heard it's about friendship. I'm sorry

to interrupt you.

>> It's about a friendship between a man

and rocks. Um, it is an alien who looks

like a pile of rocks. Um, it is a

wonderful movie. It is about science. It

is fun. It is It made me It's

infectiously delightful and it deserves

I can see why I did $80 million the box

office. I saw it on IMAX film. You don't

need to really. There's some beautiful

things in it and some beautiful

photography, but you hardly you could

watch it. It's a wonderful It feels like

a little like ET a little bit. It's got

It just is a wonderful movie. Uh Ryan um

what's his name?

>> Gosling.

>> Gosling. Ryan Gosling is delightful.

He's the kind Scott. You need to see it

because it's the kind of man you want to

be.

>> Two people have said I'd love it. Yeah,

>> you would because he's the guy that you

want to be. He's sort of a reluctant

hero of course and at the same time it's

about ingeniousness. It's about it's the

same writer of the mar m Mart m Mart m

Mart m Mart m mar m mar m mar m mar m

mar m mar martian same book and everyone

what's interesting someone told me

people read project hail Mary someone

who I didn't think read much read both

the Martian and project hail Mary it's a

lot of plot not great writing but the

movie the movies become marvelous I

think I love the Martian it's about sort

of fix it things it's it's everyone in

it is great uh this this an this rock

character that becomes his friend

they're trying to solve humanity 's

problems together is you start to really

love this charact. It's a really great

character which is voiced by a puppeteer

I think a very well-known puppeteer.

Amazing. Like I can't believe at first I

was like I'm going to look at a rock

character this entire time and it ended

up being delightful. I got to say it

deserves I it did much better than

people thought. Amazon this is their

first big hit that is an original and

congratulations to Amazon for this. I

have to wonderful movie. Again, Ryan

Gosling can do anything. He can sing. He

can dance. He's funny. He was great on

SNL. Wonderful. What a movie star, but

also totally approachable as a dude.

That's why you'd like it. My fail. You

know, there's so many obvious ones. I

mean, more than nine months after its

announcements, Trump mobile phone still

hasn't launched. It never is going to

launch, by the way. They're a bunch of

grifters. Um, but I think I think

probably something that got a lot of

press was President Trump's reaction to

the death of Robert Mueller. Uh, former

FBI director, special counsel, and

Bronstar Marine veteran. He died this

weekend at the age of 81. I had no I had

no idea he was sick. Well, former uh

presidents Bush and Obama shared their

tributes to him. Trump went the other

direction posting, "I'm glad he's dead."

uh you know then Scott Bent that little

quizzling weak weak weakling was like oh

he was the victim here of Robert Mueller

and so he should be able to say that but

it does open it is really shocking when

everyone sort of gave the left a hard

time for not being unhappy that Charlie

Kirk had died and by the way it was

terrible and murder in a terrible and

murderous way and nobody should be

celebrating that. Um,

this was just like very typical and it

sort of opens the door to when someday

Trump uh sheds these mortar coils for

anyone to say that. Um, so it just was

like it's another gross, chaotic,

mentally deranged madness of King George

moment. That's I was like, are you can

you just shut the [ __ ] up and not give

us your thoughts on every awful thing

that crosses your your increasingly

aging brain? Thank you. There you go.

>> There you go.

But we're increasingly, it's like when

you hang out, people begin to look like

their dogs. We're becoming the same

person. My fail was the same thing. So,

I'll take the other side of it. But,

>> okay,

>> before we get to that, I want to just

talk a little bit more about [ __ ] If

>> if you're do you think it should bother

you if your spouse has given hundreds of

[ __ ] to random men, or is my wife

overreacting?

>> Oh my god,

>> that's good. I think you'd be good at

giving

>> blowj

my win.

>> I would think you'd be better than me at

it, but go ahead.

>> All right, enough. Even I have limits.

>> I knew that would stop you.

>> I even I have limits.

>> I knew it.

>> Okay, so I don't know how to make a

clean segue here. So my we we

uh we uh talk a lot about what

talking about an aspirational

uh vision for masculinity.

Um, and I think unfortunately it's been

confused with u volume,

dominance, and attention. And that's,

you know, that's not strength, Cara.

That's just insecurity with a ring light

or a Twitter handle. And if you want an

actual template for masculinity,

you could do a lot worse than Robert

Robert Mueller. And this was a guy, he

was a Marine in Vietnam, by the way. He

volunteered.

He didn't he didn't avoid deferments, no

bone spurs. Also in high school, captain

of his lacrosse, hockey, and baseball

team. An amazing

>> leader,

>> physical athlete,

>> leader,

>> captain. All three teams decided he

should be the leader of that team. He

marine in Vietnam where he earned a

bronze star. Went on to lead the FBI for

over a decade and then later in his

career he took on one of the most

politically radioactive investigations

in modern history. And how did he handle

it? He had there was no three theatrics.

There was no personal branding. There

was no need to be at the center of the

story. He just did the job. And before

all of that, uh, as I mentioned, a very

serious athlete and a scholar, went to

Princeton, and get this, married for

over 60 years, raising a family,

including, I believe, two kids, while

building a life of service. You know,

that's a decent outline for masculinity.

it not performative outrage, no constant

self-promotion, but discipline,

restraint, and commitment, you know, to

your work, your country, and your

family. And his posture was simple, you

know, service matters more than me. The

work matters more than me. And I feel

like I feel like with today's who we

should be looking to for role models and

masculinity, that's what we've lost.

We've started rewarding people or men

for being loud instead of being reliable

and that for being visible instead of

being being credible or empathetic. And

this guy was real strength. It's quiet.

It's showing up. It's doing hard things.

And it's not making everything about

you. And so when we talk about using

masculinity as a code or a guide for

young men,

you know,

if you're trying to figure this out what

it looks like, here's a filter. Are you

are you optimizing for attention

or for service, right? Because one of

them is more immediate, but the other

compounds over a lifetime. And I found

it so upsetting

that this guy who's such an outstanding

role model and such a fantastic example

of what it means to be an American and

what it means to be a man that his

family would have to endure that

nonsense.

>> Yep. I agree.

>> So he'll be he'll be buried.

>> That was the story is Trump's reaction

to

>> he'll be laid to rest with full, you

know, full honors and and there's few

people that deserve it more. Anyways,

Captain Robert Mueller, United States

Marine Corps. Rest in peace. What a

wonderful example he he he set for for

all Americans and especially young men.

>> Mhm.

All right.

>> That's my win. That's it. That's all I

got. You said the fail.

>> Okay. All right. I have one more win.

Scott and I did get in a tiff this

weekend and we settled it. And I have to

tell you, you acted like a man. I have

to say you handled a lot of people

wouldn't have called me back. We had a

little tiff. I was a little snarky. you

got we got mad at each other and I have

to say I said to my wife I said Scott

handle it like a real man like really we

had a good talk we worked it out we'll

always have little tips not very many

but I have to say you acted with great

dignity and and open

>> appreciate that Cara

>> it was really I was really very much

happy with it I have to say

>> that's nice that makes me feel good you

acted like a woman really is what you

did it was like Carrie [ __ ]

>> well that's the less version of a man

just beyond the white lotus We should be

on White Lotus. We know those people.

They should make us carotus.

>> Tulum

with Molly in the bathroom.

>> Oh my god.

>> Finally, Cara takes Molly. And that's

the plot. What happens from there? And

>> someone's got to die though. Who's going

to die?

>> You. Obviously you. Come on. Obviously.

Anyway, and then I'll have to solve the

most performative [ __ ] from someone.

I'm willing to take

>> to solve the mystery. Anyway, we want to

hear from you. Send us your questions

about business tech or whatever's on

your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to

submit a question for the show or call

85551 pivot. Elsewhere in the Karen

Scott universe this week and on with

Cara Swisser, I spoke with experts about

how the Trump administration is

dramatically expanding the immigration

detention system. I think it's really

important to focus on things that people

have lost a little attention to,

especially this prison system we're

building. Aaron Reichlin Milneck, lawyer

and senior fellow at the American

Immigration Council, says Steven Miller

won't stop pushing for more

deportations, even if the focus has been

off them of late. Let's listen to a

clip.

>> His goal is a million deportations a

year. I don't think they're going to hit

it, but they're going to try to spend

every penny of that funding that they

can in order to reach that goal. And

that means more people caught up in this

rapid system, more people held in

detention, more people subject to awful

conditions, and more people who see

what's happening and say, "I can't take

it anymore. I just want to give up even

if I could have a chance to stay in this

country because I don't want to spend

another day in this hell hole."

>> So anyway, let's just not lose focus on

things. We tend to do that in this

society right now. So, I thought it was

important to talk about the issue, these

detentions.

>> I'm glad you're doing that because one

of the things I was thinking about is

that

>> so many really important issues,

including incarceration in this country

or in the United States, we're the most

incarcerated country in the world. It it

bubbled up to be an issue where a lot of

important people were talking about it

and beginning to visit it and and think

thoughtfully about it. And it's been

pushed down because we just have so much

[ __ ] nonsense crowding out everything

else.

>> Right. That's the whole point. That's

what they're doing. It's their it's a

flim flamy. And one of the things is

it's easy when it's Minneapolis and we

can see it. This stuff is hidden because

they're behind this is what where they

want it. The hiddenness of it, but it

gets out. And so I thought it was

important to keep focused on on things

like this. Um which is why I did the

Epstein survivors. I'm like, let's not

forget, let's not forget. Let's not

forget. Anyway, it was a really good

panel with a really good group of

people. Okay, that's the show. Thanks

for listening to Pivot and be sure to

like and subscribe to our YouTube

channel. will be back on Friday.