Hey everybody, the besties are taking

Thanksgiving off. But hey, we didn't

forget about you. We banked a couple of

great content segments while we were in

Vegas. First, here's an interview with

Molly Bloom. You know, she ran the

legendary highstakes game in LA in New

York. I was invited to the LA one. We'll

get into that. And her story was turned

into the feature film and book Molly's

Game. We have a great conversation, tons

of insider stories, who imploded in her

LA game, the best celebrity poker

players, getting shaken down by the mob,

how she got an Aaron Sorcin meeting, and

much, much more. Big thank you to our

friends at Oracle for partnering with us

on this amazing VIP lunch we did in

Vegas at the Venetian. What a great

hotel. Also, make sure you head over to

our YouTube channel. A YouTube exclusive

for the first ever bestie poker freeze

out game. Who's going to win? Chbahhat

Freebert, me, or some of the world's

greatest poker players, Alan Keading and

Jason [ __ ] Also, Phil Helmouth. He he

wound up there as well somehow. So,

happy Thanksgiving. We love you and uh

be safe and we'll see you all next week

for a regular episode.

>> Listen, we have a guest.

>> We do have a guest. Um, she's an

entrepreneur, bestselling author, one of

Fortune magazine's most powerful women.

I didn't know that.

>> Oh.

>> Um, Molly Bloom ran the world's most

exclusive poker game. You probably know

her from, uh, the movie Molly's Game,

which we'll hear a little bit about

today. But Molly's also, I think, got an

amazing sense of what made her

successful and the journey she's been

through, I think, is a really

interesting one to learn from. So,

please join me in welcoming Molly.

Thank you.

All right. Nice to see you, Molly.

Molly, what was the origin of the game?

We know some of our friends played in

it. Uh,

>> well, hold on a second. Jason, you

claimed on our show, let me just read

the notes.

>> The notes?

>> Um, yeah, there are notes here. What did

I say? Apparently, where's the thing

that Jason said?

>> We were on the show and Jason said he

played in the game all the time and

>> No, no, no, no. I was invited to the

game.

>> No, you did not say that. Lisa, please

pull the tape

>> and when you're ready, just raise your

hand and let me know exactly what Jason

said. And then Molly responded on

Twitter that you did not play in my

game.

>> Okay,

>> let's be clear. Molly, did you invite me

to the game?

>> I don't remember inviting you to the

game,

>> but here's the here's the deal. So,

there were two versions of the game.

There was the version where I was

working for someone who would send me a

list.

>> Got it. And I'm sure that you were

probably on that list when I

>> Jeffrey Epstein's list,

>> right? He was young.

>> Absolutely.

>> Okay.

>> But when it was my game, you know,

>> I just remember the Four Seasons.

Was that your game or Okay. So, it was

the Four Seasons. I remember you invited

me and you said Toby's going to be

there, Leo's going to be there,

whatever. And uh they'd love to see you.

And I said

>> they would love to see me lose $50,000.

There's no way I'm going to this game

cuz I was playing in a 510 game. But you

were working for somebody at the Viper

Room. The game started. You then took it

over and it very quickly became a big

game. Famously Toby Magguire, friend of

uh ours we play poker with sometimes was

part of this. Um and then you decided uh

to move it to New York. Just let

everybody know like how this all got

started for you and when you took over

the game.

>> Okay. So I was uh in college game for

the US ski team. had a accident and

retired and kind of didn't know who I

was because sports were my identity.

Went to LA simply because I wanted to be

warm. I'd been cold since I was 2 years

old. And ended up working for this guy.

Uh he had a real estate development

company and he said, "Tomorrow night, I

need to serve drinks at my poker my

poker game."

>> Okay. And so I show up to this poker

game and it, you know, it's A-list

celebrities like you've mentioned, but

also the head of one of the biggest

investment banks, a politician who was a

household name, uh, somebody from the

tech world, and I get to be a fly on the

wall in this incredibly compelling room,

and also, you know, I'm in my I'm 23

years old. This is access to

information, to capital, to power. And

then at the end of the night, uh, they

were tipping me in chips and someone

counted out $4,000 in cash and I was

like, "Okay, I don't know what's up with

this chip token economy, but I think I

might want in."

>> And over the next eight months, um, I

started to learn the to speak the

language of poker, but really what I was

focused on is how do I forge alliances?

because I knew that I would say about 3

months in, I knew I didn't want to just

serve drinks. I knew I wanted to have my

own games. This was an incredible

opportunity. I mean, it really was a

Trojan horse. You could use it to

infiltrate any subset of society. Um,

and I was learning about the world from

some of the people who were active

actively involved in in shaping culture.

So, it was a fascinating uh interesting

time and and it was also very lucrative.

And so, um, I decided to start my own

games and I had eight months of notes of

what I would do differently. And I think

because I wasn't a poker player, there

was an advantage because I was able to

zoom out and see this isn't just about

poker. This is about community. It's

about storytelling. It's about um

belonging to something and it's about

escapism and fantasy. And so I really

started to build on those topics and and

those, you know, I wanted everyone to

come into this room and from the second

they walked into this room feel like

they were in Monaco or in a James Bond

movie. And and so when I started the

game 8 months later,

you know, I was 24 years old. I didn't

think these people who are rich and

famous and were going to come, let alone

make it their their home game. And so I

would say that started the about 4 and a

half five year tenure of the LA game.

>> And when we started out when I was

serving drinks, it was a $10,000 buyin.

I raised it to a 50,000 buyin.

>> And um

>> yeah, that's the number I remember. And

I was like, "Wow, those are high

stakes." Cuz at the time, even in LA,

people were not playing in those states.

And you really elevated the game.

Somehow the mob got involved and the

game moved to New York. Fast forward to

this because this got pretty dark pretty

quick.

>> It did. Um, so I lost the game in LA.

>> How do you lose the game in LA?

>> Well,

one of the players who was making 10x

what he was making in the poker game

became very obsessed with this game and

wanted to talk about it all the time.

wanted to and then sort of to want to

kind of do things that felt wrong.

>> Okay.

>> Okay.

>> Like maybe uh target certain weak

players, maybe uh get some of your tip

money,

>> like actively cheat the game.

>> Yeah. Um

>> angle shoot the game.

>> Angle shoot. And and also was

complaining that I made too much money.

>> Got it.

>> Um and basically gave me this offer.

I'll pay you a salary and you can work

from you. You can be the figurehead.

Uh-huh.

>> Um, and I really wanted to keep the

game. I was making millions of dollars

legally. I was paying my taxes. I was,

you know, like I had mentioned, it was

incredibly exciting and and educational.

Um, but I I didn't want to be under I

didn't want to work for him.

>> Right. There's a power imbalance because

this person theoretically might have

been famous,

>> and the players might follow them if

they boxed you out.

>> Yeah. He he said uh turns out they want

to play at a movie star house. Uh,

>> they wanted to what?

>> Play at a movie star's house.

>> Got it. And is it well known who that

person is?

>> It's well speculated.

>> She never says

>> who they speculated. JKL

>> Toby Magguire.

>> Uhhuh.

>> And he the uh concept also was uh there

was this device called a shuffle master

which was in the first iteration. It

makes the game go much faster. And three

people, myself, Toby, and another person

had a shuffle master in Los Angeles

because you could buy them

>> from somebody in Vegas theoretically,

but they weren't available. And Chimat

remembers because he got an early one

and I used to bring mine to Chimat's

game. He'd say, "Hey, can you bring the

the shuffle master?" He also angles shot

you and wanted you to rent a shufflem.

>> I'll never forget going to his house.

>> No, he Toby. Not me.

>> Not you. Not you.

>> Um, yeah. I I'll never forget. So, he he

was right.

>> Renting out a shuffle master.

>> I mean, he had a tough couple years. You

said it was a pretty big downdraft.

>> So, shuffle masters cost 17,000 at the

time.

>> Yeah. Um, and he was right that we

needed one. Uh, and so he said, "Well,

how about we'll use mine? Just come up

to my house and get it, right?" So, go

to his house and get it. And then I

brought it back and he said, "Um, I'm

going to need $200 for this." I'm like,

"You're you're kidding, right?" Like,

I'm sitting there looking at his

mansion, you know, 200 a shot. I mean,

and about 5 months in, I'm like, "We

need to buy our own shuffle master,

>> right?" Yeah. They they can be obtained.

So, you get the game taken away from

you. The game moves to New York.

>> Sorry. So, Toby Toby takes the game away

and you're like,

>> "Somebody takes game away, right?" And

so, you're like, "I'm moving to New York

and restarting the game there."

>> Well,

I was really pissed and I, you know, and

I

>> it was 2008,

so yeah, I was like, I'm going to build

the biggest poker game in the world. Can

we can we talk like can you just talk a

little bit about how you did that

>> with respect to salesmanship and

building confidence to grow that game?

Like you you moved to a new city,

>> you don't know anyone. How do you

convince them

>> and maybe talk a little bit about what

you learned early on about sales and

earning people's trust and how you got

that to happen?

>> Yeah. So what I focused on

much much earlier than uh you know

eventually I realized that if you're if

you're treating the business if you're

treating the poker game like a business

essentially what you want is you want

nine people seated around a table with

equal playing styles equal skill skill

levels and hopefully you get these

heartp pumping results but at the end of

the year the money changes hands and the

house wins. Okay. But before I realized

that, what I had was

I I was raised by uh parents who were

were very um they they believed in

teaching lessons all the time. And my

dad's was excellence and discipline and

overcoming fear. And my mom's was

integrity, integrity, integrity. And

what can you do for the world? And don't

make people feel like they're

transactions. And so, you know, that's

that's the education that I had. And so

I was a really hard worker and I really

held myself to a high standard. So for

instance, when I started running these

games, there was a lot of pros that

would offer me free rolls, straight cash

if they could play, but I knew that that

would compromise the integrity of the

game. So what I did is I didn't take

shortcuts. I just was trustworthy and I

invested in people and I um you know I

developed relationships and I was very

intentional about

before I walk in this, you know, not

asking them for favors because everyone

in the world was asking them for favors

and just, you know, instead of what can

you do for me, what can I do for you?

Um, and over time, you know, pe I think

people sense that you're a trustworthy

person and that you are really deeply

invested in in their outcome and and I

think that that was focusing on that

relational capital and focusing on

cultivating that trust and being a part

of someone's life. um doing events, you

know, expanding the time that you spend

together outside of just poker and, you

know, doing events with the whole with

the whole crew and and so that's what I

focused on and that was so incredibly

valuable.

>> And a big part of this culture at the

time was unlike say some other games

where we have a group of friends, it's

uh like a high trust environment, we

settle up yearly, etc. The tradition in

LA, at least in the ones I played in,

uh, was you settle up the next day,

people would, and that would be your

responsibility, I assume, or one of your

runners to go collect checks and settle

with people. And then sometimes, you

know, people maybe couldn't settle, and

it can get a little bit awkward. So

maybe you could tell us about that part

of the job that people don't see, which

is, hey, you got to go the next day.

Somebody lost 50 grand, 250 grand.

What's the big loss that you had to go

collect? What was that like? A couple

things. First of all, what shocked me

was if you looked at the net worth at a

lot of these people that were playing,

it would indicate that a loss of a

couple hundred thousand or even a

million wasn't a big deal, right? But

that's that wasn't the case. I I saw

crazy behavior. Um, and when I realized

kind of like cuz I always would ask

myself the question, what's underneath

this? You know, what is what's causing

this flipping of the table, screaming at

me that you're never going to pay, you

know, whatever. And what I kind of got

to is it's fear. Even though it doesn't

make logical sense compared to someone's

net worth, losing money or losing in

general kind of triggers this fear

response. You feel out of control. So my

job consistently was having enough top-

down control to be able to be the one

that could then make that person feel

safe because I saw in other games the

game runner's on the hook for the money.

This person's saying, "I'm never going

to pay you. Then they're both in fear,

then they go get into the sparring

match, games end, things fall apart."

So, it was really useful for me to just

be able to emotionally regulate myself

and understand

what was going on

>> and just talk them down from a ledge and

get them to pay because if somebody

stiffs the game, the game you could

break the game permanently.

>> Well, I've been stiffed and I I wrote

those checks.

>> Really? What's the biggest you got

stiffed for?

>> 250.

>> 250. And the person could afford to pay

it

>> for sure.

>> And they stiffed you and then you've got

to come out of pocket for that and make

good.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. That's That's hard.

>> Yeah,

>> that's a

>> But it teaches you to do a really good

job on the on the vetting.

>> Yes. Um I mean I had bank employees on

my payroll basically because in LA

people drive a Lamborghini, they rent a

house in the valley, right?

>> Yeah.

>> So Molly, can you just talk about you

talked earlier with us um when we were

playing poker or during lunch about

someone said I think what sort of stuff

are you into?

>> Yeah. And you said, "I'm really into

like adrenaline

stuff, like adrenaline sports, right?

And you're like competitive skier and so

on." Um, but this feels like that sort

of high stakes environment that you put

yourself in. Where did that come from?

And do you think you selected yourself

into this environment because it feels

like hella skiing?

>> I think first of all, um, I come from a

really competitive family. uh one

brother uh went to the Olympics twice,

was a world champion in mogul skiing at

world champ at 16. Then he went on to uh

after the terin Olympics get drafted

fifth round of the Philadelphia Eagles.

He was an Abberrombi model.

Then he started and sold a tech company

at like literally the highest valuation

like down to the second I think. And now

he's CEO of the X Games. And then my

other brother is Harvard educated

cardiothoracic surgeon at Massgen. So

>> which one do your parents love most?

>> Well, they loved them more, but then

Kosner played my dad in the movie, so I

became instantly the favorite kid.

>> So they they eventually loved you.

>> Eventually, but it took a I mean it took

a lot.

>> It did. Yeah.

>> So that was part of it. Um we grew up

skiing and my dad was really insistent

on fear is not going to sideline you.

And so from an early age, like some kids

get grounded for talking back or you

know, whatever. We got in trouble for

letting fear get in the way or and and

so something started to happen, I think,

in those early years where it was like

this very like exciting experience to

look at something, be afraid of it, and

then do it.

>> Um

>> like run a big game where people go

south for 250k and then you decide, hey,

>> but that was the behavior you were

trained on early on. I think it was a

byproduct of social

>> fear in the face and jump into it.

>> Yeah. And that's a pretty great feeling,

right? It

>> totally and a bit of pride. You wanted

to restart the game. And so you had that

pride.

>> Big time pride.

>> So take us to the game moving to New

York and the mob getting involved, you

getting beat up, the getting pinched and

this whole thing going sideways.

>> Okay. So um moved to New York to to your

uh question really started interviewing

poker players what's the problem in the

current system because there is really

well established games and whatever and

what I found was that there was a

problem with trust um a lot of times

gamers would play in their own games uh

if they did had a bad night the rake

would be higher d wasn't taking a rake

um and then I realized okay well if I

can become the bank for these games and

I can settle um and then provide this

experience um in which you could sit

down next to your hero or you know you

could sit next to somebody who's going

to change your life in business and then

there's no pros and it's all action. Um

this is how I'm going to do it. So I

became the bank for these games. The

game in New York was a $250,000 buyin.

It was 2008 and I remember the first

game the president like was in the

background on the on the television like

giving the state of the union on the

economy and there was like $10 million

on the table.

Um these were insane games. Uh they were

playing insane uh variations of

>> And you love the thrill. You feel the

thrill. Yeah,

>> I did. Yeah. Um

I mean this was the game that like

ultimately someone lost 100 million. So

um so yeah so again um that definitely

made noise

>> even by [ __ ] standards

>> and yeah so and then I just decided you

know I cuz I told my parents listen cuz

they're like please go back to school

you know please finish your like go to

>> I knew what you were doing.

>> Yeah. And I was like okay but I just

have to do this thing real fast. So, I I

decided I was going to go as big as I

possibly can. And then I started smaller

games and it and it got out of control

and some of these guys from Brighton

Beach started playing and I had them

vetted, but their and their stories

checked out. I knew something was off.

It was really off. They were running the

biggest insurance fraud scheme in New

York City history. They had alleged ties

to the Russian mob. My only involvement

with them was they played on my poker

game. The next thing that happened was

um

the Italian mob or impersonators of the

Italian mob uh came to me and said, you

know, we we want a piece of your game

and I turned them down. And then they

didn't just go away. Um, and they sent

someone to my apartment and uh

this guy broke broke in my apartment and

he put a gun in my mouth and he

>> Jesus

>> and he told me that um I work for them

and that if I told anyone law

enforcement or anybody that they had

found out where my family lives in

Colorado and then he beat the hell out

of me and forced me to like, you know,

you

>> took everything out of my safe and there

was money and there was a gold bar in

there for some reason, but also um

things that my grandmother, who I was

named after, left for me. And you know,

it was just terrifying. And I was

completely

terrified, ashamed um for what I was now

implicating my family in. And I couldn't

call anyone. And

>> wow.

>> I kept waiting for their call.

>> Did you think at that moment to just

stop and just say, you know what, okay,

done.

>> Yeah. But I didn't know if it was an

option anymore,

>> right? because they were looking at me

as a big earner now and they they' said,

"This is a warning. It's not it's not up

to you anymore."

>> Wow.

>> So, I didn't know what to do. Like,

literally for the first time,

>> you could confide in anyone.

>> I didn't I didn't tell a single soul.

>> You didn't tell You kept that all in.

>> Yeah. And I'm in my apartment. I can't

go outside cuz it's very clear I've been

assaulted.

And I'm confused as to why I'm not

hearing them cuz about 3 or 4 days go by

and I I don't hear anything from them.

And then I get the New York Times and on

the cover it says 125 arrested in the

biggest mob related takedown in New York

City history and I never heard from them

again.

>> Wow.

>> Dodging a bullet. My god.

>> Oh my god. But yeah, but then

>> Oh my gosh.

>> Then the bullet of me came into play and

you know so then I I just started

getting out of control and like I said

like you know integrity was an important

thing to me but over time I was making

these little decisions. there were just

a little left or right of of where where

I stood and and you know greed money

became everything and and so I started

doing things that um my attorneys told

me not to do.

>> Raking the game.

>> Yeah. Taking a rake.

>> Taking a rake. Now, for people who don't

know,

>> if you have a home game and you collect

tips, it's kind of a gray zone, but

generally speaking, people don't have a

problem with it legally. But in the

casino business, the legal gaming

business, they feel that's their

business to take a rake. And they went

through the proper channels to get a

license to do that rake. And you can't

do that at a home game, right?

>> And so now you're breaking the law,

>> right?

>> To make extra money.

>> Sorry, just to be clear, a rake just

means when you put money in the pot,

they take a little bit of it out, they

put it on the side, they keep it for

themselves. In the casino, they do an

hourly rake, right?

>> Yeah, that's a rake, too.

>> That's a rake, too.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Um different. You were you were you were

taking money out of the pots, keeping

them for yourself.

>> So basically what I was doing was I had

become

much more lenient about who I was

letting in the game. Um and so my

exposure was getting bigger. And so in

some of those games where I was betting

on the players and they were bad bets, I

started to take a rake. This was the

last six months.

the feds had put a confidential

informant in the game because they were

listening to the Russians phone.

>> Um who tracked that and in and then a

couple months later I got a text message

from one of the dealers and they said

don't come here. The FBI is here looking

for you and finally I knew it was game

over and I just wanted to go home even

though I'd pushed my family really far

away. like I I just wanted to go home

and so I tried to book a plane ticket

from um JFK to Denver and my credit card

got declined and then my next card got

declined and I looked logged into my

bank account and it read99,999,000.

Um the division of asset forfeiture

had taken everything because your

property unlike your personhood doesn't

have the presumption of innocence except

for maybe in Florida. Not

>> I'm not up on the asset. Now you're

pinched. You get shaken down by the mob.

Then you get pinched by the feds.

>> So the feds are So my lawyers call and

they say, you know, she can sue us cuz

this is on the civil side, but anything

she says will also be counted as a

confession. They said, do you want her?

Are you pursuing any criminal charges?

They said, no,

I couldn't try to get my money back. I

moved in with my mom. Felt really sorry

for myself. Took me about two years to

put my life back together. Finally got

this little job in LA.

moved back into this little studio

apartment and I thought, "Okay, it's a

fresh start." You know, five days later

in the middle of the night, 17 FBI

agents, machine guns, high beam

flashlights,

>> put me in handcuffs and shackles, and

put this piece of paper in front of me

that said, "The United States of America

versus Molly Bloom."

>> Wow. Wow. What a year.

>> I was really running hot.

>> Yeah. Wow.

>> Um,

>> couple of bad beats. So, I had a day and

a half to get to New York City to find

an attorney. And

>> And you're broke.

>> And I don't have a penny.

>> Yeah.

>> Wow.

>> So,

>> how does it all resolve? How does the

story resolve?

>> So, I found someone honorable and great

to represent me. I didn't have money to

fight it. So, I pled out. The

prosecutors wanted a meeting with me.

Uh, this was the Southern District. And,

um, they really wanted me to become a a

CI. They weren't interested in the

Russians or the Italians. They were

interested in the billionaires and the

politicians and the celebrities

>> who were for poker specifically.

>> Yeah. Let me be really clear. There was

no Epstein in my game.

>> Right.

>> Right.

>> Um so they said if you know if you're

>> they wanted you to be a rat against rich

people, politicians, and famous people.

Yes.

>> And what did you what did they think you

were going to overhear like murder plots

or like like what like what were you

going to be able to tell them? Business

deals. I could have given them leads

>> you over here

>> for all kinds of stuff.

>> Yeah. Crime

>> for sure.

>> Wow.

>> Um

>> was this Pit Barara who was running the

Southern District cuz he he's also

famous for getting rid of online poker.

He

>> had a He's a pretty by the books

>> guy for sure.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> And the Southern District of all

districts is known for being the most

hardcore

>> and politically ambitious and

>> Sure. Right. All right.

>> Um, and they said,

>> "So, did you did you go to jail?"

>> I didn't. So, they said, "If you're

willing to give, you know, if you're

willing to work with us, we'll give you

all your money back and we'll give you a

deferred prosecution, which will keep

you out of prison." And I had like 48

hours to make this call. And, you know,

where I got to it was like, this was my

fault. Um, I uh I had near-perfect

information on the laws. I had all these

opportunities. I had loyal clientele. I

found this loophole and I was the one

that decided to make this choice. And so

to turn around and drag these people who

had families through this [ __ ]

um based on my own bad decisions like

just didn't feel like something that I

wanted to live with. So,

>> I turned down that offer and I waited to

get sentenced and we all thought I was

going to prison

and I got a judge who was very

disappointed in my life choices, but

but basically said, you know, you had a

life before this and I had character

letters from professors and ski coaches

and I had um a lot of people show up for

me that had made better decisions that I

had in life and so he fined me a lot and

but I didn't go to But, you know, then I

was 35 years old, millions of dollars in

debt, a convicted felon. The tabloids

are telling this really reductive tale.

Like, where how do you come back from

that, you know? And so I decided, well,

there's a story here and if I can

monetize that, maybe that can address

the reputational harm, the financial I

mean, I'm millions of dollars in debt

and um and so I wrote a book and uh

waited for my life to change and then I

think 10 people read it and probably

like eight of them were related to me.

But it was still my it was still my only

idea and I still kind of believed in it

in my in my gut. So I just made a short

list of the most successful filmmakers

in Hollywood and I was like why not you

know why not just go for it. Um but they

needed to be brave because there was

also a ton of people as you can imagine.

>> Yes.

>> Even though I'd fallen on the sword with

legally even though I hadn't implicated

people in the book they don't want

exposure and I get that. Um, so Erin

Sorcin wrote A Few Good Men, Social

Network, Moneyball, and he was my

favorite writer and also the highest

paid screenwriter at the time, which if

you're gambling, which we always are,

right? It's good bet. Anyway, getting to

him wasn't easy. I finally got to him

and I just remember before I walked in,

I was like, what am I doing?

Millions of dollars in debt. My book

sold 10 copies. Like, I live with my

mom. like

and this is the highest paid

screenwriter in the world, you know.

>> So, you got a meeting with him.

>> I did.

>> And he had you had sent him the book

obviously.

>> So, a somebody that I bothered like

relentlessly.

>> Right. So, you're just to put the sales

hat on again like the the relentless

like pursuit of the sale.

>> Yeah.

>> You were like all over this guy even

though

>> Yeah.

>> you weren't make and you just kept

going.

>> Yeah. And I and I you know I had met

with other screenwriters and they were

kind of a big deal and I was like, "No,

no, no." And my brother's like, "You

can't keep passing. Like you live with

your mom."

>> What did you say when you get in the

room?

>> Um, so I told him my story

and I think like my leg my legs were

shaking, but like I had this game face

on, you know?

>> Yeah.

>> And when I was done, he said, "Well,

I'll tell you one thing, kid. I've never

met someone so down in their luck and so

full of themselves.

>> Wow. It's good character study." Yeah.

>> Yeah. Um, and then, you know,

>> they made an offer.

>> Yep. And then the the paid and then you

used that money to pay down this uh fine

you got.

>> I did.

>> And

>> I just finally finished paying off the

government last summer.

>> Wow.

>> Wow. Congratulations. And I leave.

>> And I guess you know the just to ask you

the hard question which you kind of

answered. I was always wondering like

how does one make the decision to write

this tell all book and the fallout from

that book? I remember in LA people

talking about the book coming out. The

book's coming out. The book's coming.

Everybody was really scared about it.

You didn't put people's names in it. You

specifically chose to, you know, make it

>> I put their name in it if they've talked

if they had talked about playing in the

games,

>> right? So

>> if they themselves, you know,

>> so you took some steps there, but you

did make a decision all these people who

put you in business, etc. to basically

turn on them and to basically tell their

story, but there was no non-disclosure.

You hadn't made any agreements to not

talk about it.

>> Well, I didn't turn on them. I actually

supported them at every turn.

>> Well, I'm just saying like

>> I could have gotten a lot of money back

and a deferred prosecution.

>> Okay. Yes. In that case. Yeah.

>> And then the publishers were willing to

pay me six, seven figures for a

celebrity hit piece. I was broke living

with my mom. Again, I turned that down.

>> Got it.

>> And I chose to work with a screenwriter

that was absolutely clear and willing to

contract it that we aren't ruining any

lives.

>> Great. And the fact that just so you

know is everybody in the who had games,

>> all the dealers, everybody involved had

to sign non-disclosures

>> for the next

>> probably smart.

>> Probably smart. Yeah.

>> Do you still need to face fear in its

face to feel like you're

>> doing what you want to do?

>> Yeah.

>> Um I don't have this I think addiction

to that anymore.

Um,

but I don't I don't ever I I will always

choose courage over comfort. I I pay a

big interior price internally if I

don't.

>> But it's not like this thing where I

need that, you know, that that uh

adrenaline hit to make me feel alive. I

like it. I pick my spots now. I have a

three and a half yearear-old daughter so

I knew before I brought a kid into the

world I want I needed to do a lot of

work on myself right

>> um so that I could be the kind of

>> you learned a lot about yourself

>> I wonder what you could tell us about

the nature of the men who are obsessed

with playing this game and playing it at

these stakes and the camaraderie the

competition and the chaos have you

learned erned about the nature of these

men.

>> Well, again, I think

I don't like to

there's a couple different archetypes.

Okay,

>> tell us.

>> So, there are there are the ones that

are there on a

self-destructive

bullet train.

>> So, it's not just high stakes poker,

right? Yeah. It's

putting their marriage in bad places in

very egregious and and and ways. There's

drugs. There's, you know, it's it's it's

the hedonic treadmill gone crazy.

>> Got it.

>> Um, no more control over themselves,

living for that next fix. Um, then there

are just the highly competitive people

who are very comfortable with

volatility. In fact, prefer volatility

and chaos. um but still have some

semblance of control over themsel

um and

you know and then I think there are

people that play because they love the

game

>> because they like the aspects of it that

make it an incredible game. They they

like the psychology. They like the

>> um making you know seeing the results of

making highle decisions with very

limited information. They like the the

mental

>> and and and and social thrill of it,

>> the camaraderie and the competitive.

>> Who's the who's the best celebrity poker

player

>> in all the years that you saw in these

games? Who is the best?

>> Toby.

>> Toby.

>> Yeah.

>> And who is the second best?

>> He wants you to say Chimoth, but we we

were going to carve him out cuz he's not

>> Look, I played with Toby for 20 years. I

would have said Toby, too. I think he's

he's exceptional.

>> He's a grinder. He's tough.

>> Yeah, he's tough. He I mean he um he was

the only one in the game that was tight.

>> Yeah.

>> Um

I guess second would be Ben.

>> Yeah. Affleck's a good player.

>> Yeah. He he he's definitely smart.

Definitely knows what he's doing. It

depends on where he is in his life.

>> Yes.

>> Yes.

>> Politician wise, can you say or no?

>> I haven't named any of the politicians

because they haven't been named.

>> Yeah. Okay.

>> Business people.

>> Once again,

>> they haven't named themselves, so we'll

leave them unnamed. And Molly, you were

telling us before that you do some kind

of speaking work around sales. This is

where I'm so interested in this. Like

>> what are the things you tell people when

you do those events? What is the big

takeaway from your experience?

>> So a lot of people So there's this small

body of science called effective

presence effective with an A and it

really focuses on more of the subcon

what's going on subconsciously. So, um,

if you work backwards from core human

fears, which I think is always a really

good thing to do after dying, being

alone in public speaking, you know, it's

like

what are people most afraid of? They're

afraid of um not belonging, not uh being

worthy, people stealing money from them,

etc. And so when you start to think

about what

what kind of emotional footprint am I

leaving with these people like in you

know like how can I disarm them and also

cultivate trust at the same time it

takes a level of intentionality and so I

think what a lot of us do is we walk

into a room and we're thinking what are

my what's my resume what are my sound

bites what's my pitch instead of

thinking um

how can I make this person feel like I'm

with them, like this isn't a zero- sum

game.

>> And so, there are just a couple things

that you could do. I mean, listening is

a huge one

>> to listen with full presence, to not

listen while you're constructing your

response, but just ask open-ended

questions. Go down this road with

someone um to, you know, have some

warmth about you and some a, you know, a

like be affirming. Um, but also be

authentic. Um, and and to practice the

hard empathy. Like the easy empathy is

people you relate to, people that have a

similar experience to you. The hard

empathy is sitting down and having

conversations with people whose views

you don't like, whose personality you

don't particularly like, and trying to

figure out or get to a place where you

can understand them,

>> you know?

>> Yeah.

>> Um, and so

>> making that effort.

>> Yeah. making that effort and and you

know it's interesting

humans hate uncertainty um without the

an edited brain and I mean edited by

doing that that work and meditation

whatever whatever your your mind

training tool is um the brain thinks

that uncertainty is a metabolically

unsustainable state so it equates

uncertainty with fear

>> so how can you start to give people that

sense of certainty Um, and also how can

you become aware of it in yourself?

Because if you know that you hate

uncertainty and then what you do is

forge, forge, forage for some subjective

truth and then cling to it, right?

>> Um, that's a big handicap, you know, and

so to start to do work on relaxing with

uncertainty and being more curious than

needing to, you know, try to have this

illusion of control. Um, you know,

there's there's a lot of things that

aren't so obvious or instinctual.

>> Totally. in in impact in the the art of

impact and and connection.

>> It can also force you to let go of

priors,

>> right?

>> Which allows you to adapt and evolve.

And

>> I mean, being able to adapt

>> and being able to court change and even,

you know, reframe it as like this is

exciting or this is interesting.

>> What an incredible life you've had,

ladies and gentlemen. Let's thank Molly

for joining us. Thank you, Molly.

>> Thank you so much.

>> And let's thank also Oracle. Thank you

for hosting. Um, and my lord, we're

going to have a great weekend.

I'm going all in.