what I would love to do is call someone

to my office on Friday I love firing

people on Friday

now my next guest is one of the biggest

names in real estate a successful

entrepreneur and star of a hit TV show

now the female Titan is getting some

heat the minute or woman cries you're

giving away your power Harvard is

definitely Over the Top If I wasn't

dyslexic and I didn't have a hard time

in school I don't think I would have

been successful I think I had 22 jobs

before I started my own business every

person I meet is in real estate in New

York so how did you become the best I

was competing with the old boys network

and they were asleep at the wheel nobody

was thinking of new ideas in real estate

I would think of the greatest [ __ ]

to create publicity did I manipulate

them I played my cards everything I've

done in my life has been one long

attempt to show the world that I'm not

stupid Ramon Simone he was my boyfriend

at the time and he offered to loan me a

thousand dollars to start a business

with him he was my 51 business partner

she ran off with my secretary the

seventh year we were in business yeah he

said you'll never succeed without me you

know insults can really be a wonderful

motivator I knew I was going to succeed

I had to just because I had to show him

that he was wrong if you're driven by

these unhealthy insecurities you need to

go and see a shrink I'm afraid to see a

shrink why why well you'd ask good

questions damn you

I had an issue I felt

before this episode starts I have a

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foreign

[Music]

we always start this conversation in the

same place on this podcast because it's

it seems to be inescapable that the

earliest context of Our Lives seems to

shape us in a way that then changes the

trajectory of who we are but also molds

our character and really like hones our

motivation so my question for you to

start is what is that context from your

earliest years that I need to understand

to understand you

first off I'd say competition I I was

one of 10 children we of course only had

two parents to share uh we're in very

tight quarters of two bedroom and just

to get the attention of a parent

was very hard to do

so I think everyone in my family

certainly myself grew up very

competitive competitive for attention uh

competitive to do something better than

the next kid

and what also came with it we grew up in

a team so we never knew what it was like

to be alone my idea of doing anything is

who's with me who's with me and I think

we all I shouldn't speak to everyone in

my family but I'll speak just for myself

now I think I'm phenomenal at building a

team but it's second nature to me it was

so easy for me to think of who would go

with who who wouldn't go with who who

would get along who had the right task I

could just size somebody up really fast

and make a great tight team and I don't

think that would have happened if I

didn't grow up in a very crowded

household looking for more attention and

competing

the ability to suss people out and

understand them you're saying that came

from having nine siblings

I certainly think it did yeah because

some you see all kinds of Dynamics when

you have a crowded household so you know

who the leaders are on what category you

know who's going to squeal to the

parents you know who's going to shut up

you know who can do your work for you

when you don't want to do it yourself

you know who you know who you could know

you get you develop all the talents to

get life in a form that you want it in

and you come out of the household at 18

years old with a lot of skills that

other kids really haven't had the

opportunity to do

what about the role of your also the

influence of your mother and father

oh and I was thank God I had a mother

and father who loved us

um I think that's the most important

gift in life it makes you somewhere deep

inside secure if you feel loved and I

had two parents who loved me you know

and

um my mother was a phenomenal role model

I never saw her sleep she worked 24 7.

she just never sat down I don't know

even when she slept I've never seen her

go to bed ever in my life and my father

worked two jobs his whole life to

support us so we were very much

influenced by each parent as needing to

work hard I mean we were all having jobs

when we were 11 years old I think I had

22 jobs before I started my own business

because we were out working to

contribute to the family and think about

the life skills you get outside a

household when you're working young I

don't think anybody ever has any job

where they didn't learn something about

themselves so even though when I went

out into the workforce when I started my

business at 23 I may have looked 23 but

inside I felt like I was 53 based on

experience and so there was nothing

naive about me at that point I had had

already an awful lot of experience

when I was reading through your story I

I read that your father struggled with

work and struggled with I think having a

boss he certainly did and he set up the

pattern that we all shared in my family

nine out of the ten kids have their own

business my father was a printing press

foreman and a very good worker but he

didn't like someone telling him what to

do so he would regularly come home sit

at the dinner table and tell us he was

fired from his job it was a regular

event we all asked her and tell us a

story and it was the same story he would

basically

he said I I told Mrs Stein where to

shove the job where the sun don't shine

that was my and we'd all clap for him

and say Dad our hero and my mother of

course would not even know how we were

going to be fit until he found a new job

but he was a hero and so when we grew up

even though he never worked for himself

the fact of the matter is is we knew we

wanted to work for ourselves we didn't

want to work for a boss and honestly I

never had a boss I liked even though I

had so many and I'm sure they're

perfectly fine people but I didn't like

the fact that I wasn't the boss it was

clear to me he um your father drunk

drank sometimes yes he did drink

sometimes and uh

I'll tell you how that played a role in

our family he was a social drinker so he

was probably the best father in the

world played with us was our Playmate

our we adored him everything he did but

then when we went out to a party which

wasn't that often a family party he

would drink too much and he would come

back and he was a different person he

was a gorilla and we all feared him what

that does uh is it makes you very fond

of control when you with a parent who

drinks I think as a child you never

really feel like you're in control of

things because you don't know when the

lion might come out and so it made us

insecure and very fond of control and

I'm a control freak I like to control

everything I do and I credit my dad with

that I don't want any curveballs or

surprises the way that he spoke to a

mother sometimes it seems from Reading

throughout your story and the person you

went on to be seemed to be pretty

consequential to how you did respond to

men who would

talk down to you in your career God you

do your research good for you really

that's a Nuance but

um

I'm not my best if a man talks down to

me

I'll credit my father with that because

I adored my mother so much there was

nothing to talk down to my mother about

but when he was drinking he would talk

down to my mother

and I hated him for it

and it scars you so deeply

that I'll never get rid of that so if a

man actually dismisses me or talks down

for me particularly in business

I'm at my best it's like Oh no you're

not going there I get like this iron Rod

through my soul

showing someone uh that they're wrong is

probably not the best motivation I gotta

believe probably not a healthy way to be

and you probably need a shrink on that

one but it certainly works well in

business I think it pushes you it makes

sure that you make sure that things work

out

I really resonate with that because as

I've talked about probably too much on

this podcast my my mother and father had

a very

um

loud way to communicate to say the least

what a lovely way of putting it I've

become more and more like diplomatic

with Harry frame that but yeah a loud

way of communicating and I I learned

that

as I stood there as a little kid and

watched my mother shouting at my dad

when I got older my response to being

shouted at was the response I always

wish I'd seen in my dad oh which was

like run and don't take it ah so when

you were saying that I was wondering if

you could relate in the sense of when a

man puts you down because you saw your

mother be put down in such a way your

response is to

yeah

every time brace up yeah and most

importantly uh prove his assessment of

me wrong

did your mother how did she respond

uh I have to actually think I think my

mother was so busy

making sure my father

was safe to his children

that I think she was just making sure we

were safe all the time in those

instances you know and it's kind of

crazy you know you figure it out I mean

the next morning my dad would wake up

and he was the most popular guy in the

neighborhood taking every kid in the

neighborhood out Baseball playing

teaching them how to play tennis he did

he was everybody's favorite father and

only the night before my mother was

hiding us you know so it was kind of a

odd Dynamic she was hiding you well

hiding us because she didn't want my

father to have his Wrath

on any of his children you know

so she was protecting us so kind of

separating us out yeah

wrath it's a strong word

wrath is a strong word uh I mean wrath

is it could be you know just angry words

can be so damaging uh

you know nah whatever it's weird you're

making me feel sad I guess you're

supposed to right

but it's so sad you know it's so sad uh

addiction

because it brings out the very worst in

an individual

and the traits my dad had a wonderful

father growing up just wonderful we

couldn't hope for a better father

um that he was so good that he forgave

him for the bad you really did as a kid

because it's oh good dad's back oh good

dad's back but again I said too early I

think it leaves the scars of insecurity

with children because you don't know if

you get the lady of the lion when the

door when the door opens like who are we

going to get now you know so it keeps

you on edge

when we think about addiction we we see

it as like a manifestation of pain yes

or like it is of sorts was that is that

relevant to what you observed in your

father no I think with my father it was

honestly uh entirely due uh to too much

pressure on one man

think about it he worked two jobs he

washed trucks every night through the

night because he could wash them fast

and sleep a little then he'd go to his

day job at the morning he had three

children by the time he was 23 he had

seven children by the time he was 30.

and he was a Workman and he was

supporting us uh trying to make us happy

trying to share his time with us as best

he could which he really did a great job

on

um I think it was just too much pressure

for a young man uh of what he signed up

for I think it was hard I mean it wasn't

ever assured with us as children that we

would necessarily get groceries

you know so and he felt ashamed of that

like he should be the provider but it

didn't stop him from quitting the job

the next week

when the boss told him what to do so

it's really a shame my dad didn't have

his own business I think he would have

been phenomenal in his own business all

of his kids did except for one and

they're all hugely successful so I feel

like he just didn't have the

affordability of starting his own

business you know what role did the lack

of money in your household have on

shaping your view on money

interesting enough very little really

what was great about my mother is she

never worried about money now here's a

woman who should have worried about

money and my dad should have worried

about money but I remember when I had

many junctures along the way where I

thought I'd be going out of business at

the 11th hour I tried everything didn't

think I'd ever anymore angles to work

where I could stay in business another

month and I remember in one of those

dark times my mother called him she said

you sound distracted I said well

honestly mom I think I'm going out of

business and on Monday sales meeting I'm

actually writing a speech to say goodbye

and how thankful I am and she said don't

worry about money it's an awful waste of

time and you know I stopped worrying

about money when she said it I thought

of a new idea and it kept us in business

another two months my mother's attitude

toward money was it was meant to be

spent

uh you know as a kid I guess I would

have liked to have a new coat versus get

my hand-me-downs you know that's always

better for a girl to feel like she looks

pretty okay uh but you know we were we

were pretty much a happy bunch and so

money didn't weigh in so far as you're

happy and also my parents never measured

anyone by money they never had a comment

about who's rich who's not rich who has

what it was just not even on their radar

so it was really about my mother's

Mantra supported by my father when he

was fine was kindness how kind can you

be to the neighbor what could you do for

the lady down the street and we all were

raised on that and as a result of it we

felt the satisfaction from helping out

even though we didn't have more money to

help out just doing nice things for

people and so money was not really on

the radar honest to God yeah what about

school how is oh School sucked

school is tough on kids that can't learn

I was one of those kids you know myself

and my two brothers the other kids were

eight students but we just couldn't read

we couldn't write we couldn't learn and

what happens to a kid when you're in a

in a school situation is you judge

yourself based on school grades what

else do you have you someone could say

she's such a nice girl well that might

sound good but if you're getting all F's

you feel terrible you just feel terrible

and so

um your sense of self I think is formed

very much by how good a student you are

in all school systems and it shouldn't

be because it's just one kind of

intelligence of course but it is that

way when you're a student you sum

yourself up based on whether you could

get good grades or not that's as simple

as that

were you bullied in school no not at all

I was too quiet to be bullied you know I

was quiet and lovely and that's what the

Sisters of Charity always told my

parents she's not very smart but she's

quiet and she's lovely quiet and lovely

I heard her my whole life and I was I

never said a word because I didn't have

the confidence to say a word I wasn't

going to speak up and be found out and

uh those aren't the kids that were

bullied the reason I asked about the the

question about being bullied is because

I I know that you're dyslexic and often

especially in in that day and age we

didn't understand dyslexia so we just

thought those kids were

yeah did you ever feel

that kind of criticism from your peers

or your teachers

from the teachers yes I had one teacher

in third grade that really gave me a

label that stuck with me till I got out

of high school

she said to me if you don't learn to

read you'll always be stupid and she

said the word stupid with such disdain

that was the first time I really heard

that word before that no one told me I

was stupid

it's wrong with me I'm stupid

and that's when I got quiet that's when

I just shut up and never talked again in

school because I didn't want to be

called on to

read out loud I mean for me my idea of

Hell on Earth was being told to read out

loud which was typically how you learn

to read those days you go up and down

the aisles your turn to read I mean

nothing was worse than me going the the

the the them and all the kids laughing

and snickering uh so I wouldn't call

that bully I mean they I was a show I

was a show so I guess I would have

laughed if I was them too but it's so

painful when that happens because it

takes your confidence and demolishes it

but thank God thank God we all worked

thank God I work by 11. because every

job I had I did a great job I used my

mouth I didn't have to write I didn't

have to read I could do any job and

people always tell my mother what a

great worker I was so I was proud

so uh

you know what I think in hindsight if I

wasn't dyslexic and I didn't have a hard

time in school I don't think I would

have been successful believe it or not

because I think everything I've done in

my life has been one long attempt to

show the world that I'm not stupid so

I'm driven because I'm always there's a

piece of me that always thinks I might

not be smart I mean I know it's bizarre

because I'm smart but in an insecure

situation I doubt myself sometimes but

I've learned to replace the tape I don't

have sister Stella Maria in my head

anymore telling me I'm stupid I have a

tape of my own telling me I'm incredible

I'm beautiful boy you could do this this

is nothing you know I've got that tape

that I had to replace over the years but

let me tell you it took me a lot of

years a lot of years to now I can't say

I totally replace it but mostly put a

nail through its head but it takes a lot

to get over the Damage Done if your

self-perception is a negative worn from

the get-go because we all don't leave

our childhoods behind so readily they

stay with us I think

and you you credit it there for your

drive

absolutely but also you said

earlier if you're driven by these kind

of unhealthy insecurities you need to at

some point go and see a shrink I'm

afraid to see issuing why I'm afraid

they'll straighten me out and would I be

successful then

I stay a mile away I know it's crazy

I've read a few books and self-analyze

but no no no first of all they're very

expensive in New York and then that way

I'm too cheap to pay

my shrink is working out if I work out

or if I weed my garden I'm straightened

out for the moment okay but

that's the way it is I ask for selfish

reasons I found myself at one point for

the same sort of insecurities and

feeling like I wasn't enough being very

driven to like prove the world that I

was and at some point that comes at the

cost of like this other set of things

which are important for happiness

relationships and balance and whatever

else so when you said about someone you

need to go see a shrink I get it because

at some point you can be a bit too

dragged by your

pursuit to prove the world that you are

enough that you of course it's too much

compromise a bunch of other things of

course you do I mean if you're strong

one Arena something's got to give what

had to give for you

relaxing I don't think I've ever relaxed

in my life uh but honestly when I'm

relaxed uh reading a book it's fine for

a half hour

and then I gotta get up and accomplish

something I'm very driven to accomplish

to see the difference I've made in the

world to an individual I just spoke to

to a business I've been involved in uh

to a neighbor I've befriended I've got a

I've got us why because I want to know

for sure without a doubt that I haven't

wasted a minute and that my existence

makes a difference why

because I I think it's important why

well you ask good questions damn you why

uh why is that because I don't want it

to be a wasted life you know I'm just

one of those that you one shot at it and

I want to see how much of an influence

and how much of a difference I can make

I really do I mean so I guess relaxing

feels like wasting time it doesn't mean

that I can't have fun with friends I

have the most

a great circle of close friends that I

have so much fun with that's a priority

in my life and it was a priority in my

business fun it's number one in in

developing teams I believe but

um in addition to that I just uh I just

have to be productive I do need a shrink

don't I do you have one in the house

they give me a courtesy hour

okay I'm trying to get a discount

um off you went into the world of work

as you said you had some by the way you

would make a good shrink can we just

switch gears

you don't realize what's happening here

I'm actually using you as my shrink

that's really I don't think so now I ask

questions that I genuinely care about so

and typically that means because I'm

struggling with something so so that's

why I was pursuing that Avenue so

diligently

um you had some 22 or 23 jobs before you

started your own business yes I did jobs

from everything from being a

receptionist to a waitress to everything

in between

we often look back at those jobs that

didn't pay us a lot and that the world

doesn't hold in high regard as some

people might think that they are a waste

of time or they were like necessary

what's your view on the when you're a

receptionist and a waitress how what

role did that play in your overall

success I think whether you have a

menial job or an important job it's what

you're learning I mean there wasn't a

job where I didn't learn a lot for me I

would take any job not based on pay but

gee what could I learn what could I

learn because that made you more

valuable I never really thought it made

you more valuable to be paid more but

hey I haven't done this before let's see

what this is about and you learn skills

I think I learned more through my

waitressing jobs I always had a few at

once you know you could always get a

waitress job behind a counter I think I

learned more about people waitressing

than building my business honest God you

have to size someone up your territory

is your counter you have to make them

happy you want to upsell them a little

bit maybe you say you know you give the

second cup of coffee for free but how

about A Slice of Cheesecake is really

good today you've learned how to hustle

you learn how to be organized how to get

the containers in order how to make sure

they're filled when the customer steps

out how to get that person something to

drink while you're working on this

person I mean I learned so much in every

one of those jobs and you know what's

great about having a lot of jobs you

start to get a profile of what you're

good at and what you're not and I in

short order after maybe seven or eight

jobs not that I knew what I was going to

do for a living but I knew what I was

good at I knew I was good at getting

along with people and making them smile

I could talk to somebody and make them

happy absolutely and I also knew that I

was efficient I could create a system in

anything I would see at the diner

counter all wrong not running right I

would talk to the boss say you know if

you did this with the maple syrup and

changed sugar and I could like an

executive I could rearrange the whole

counters you know in an efficient manner

and I started learning that those were

my two gifts people and efficiency and

if you think about any business those

are really big ticket items if you could

choose people motivate people get along

with people make them get along with

each other plus create systems to grow a

big business I mean the minute you have

more than a half dozen people you need

systems and my companies are always so

well organized that it they ran like

they just ran like a Swiss clock is that

a good analogy everything was in its

place nothing had to be duplicated it

was fast forward and so I was able to

build very quickly which I had to do

because we had big people in my market

and if I had built and replicated

systems at a normal Pace I would never

catch up to them so I had to do double

triple time and what's your answer on

that one systems systems get you moving

forward get you get get a business like

a machine you know and that was a gift I

got from my menial jobs thank God I

worked imagine if I hadn't worked and

went out into the real world thinking I

was dumb that I couldn't do anything

just because I couldn't read or write

thank God I learned could be a lifeguard

I learned I could be a tent salesman I

could be Barbara buttons calling for

solicitations eight hours a day I could

be all those menial jobs hot dog

salesman sell more hot dogs in the next

guy I mean I had Confidence from every

one of those jobs like look how cool I

am maybe I wouldn't win Respect by

everybody well who cares about the hot

dogs but in my book I knew I sold more

hot dogs than he sold on his you know so

so no thank God for the jobs you learned

so much by trying different jobs on you

know it's so important at that age if

I'd asked you what you wanted what your

dream was what would you have answered I

wouldn't have answered the question I

wouldn't have answered the question I

had no idea I would say I just want to

work I just want to quote work it didn't

make a difference what I was working at

I just knew that when I was working I

felt capable that's all and conversely

then what are you bad at I think as

you've said it's very important to know

strengths but also weaknesses you know

what I'm bad at a bad at math numbers

terrible

just terrible really I don't even

understand I took algebra four times

four times two years in summer school

never passed it they finally just gave

me the grade to go through

um I'm very bad at math I'm bad at legal

I'm bad at committee meetings

I'm bad at listening to a blow heart who

just goes on and on doesn't cut to the

chase I'm very bad at impatience I want

to know what you want from me and then

you tell me how you got there I don't

want to hear how you got there and then

what do you want I always want to cut to

the chase so I'm impatient I've learned

to hide it because you can't be so

visibly impatient with people but as

long as they tell me what they want on

the front end I could hang in there for

the long explanation after because I've

already concluded what I'm going to do

you know yeah so that's what I'm bad at

but lucky for me I've always surrounded

myself with people who are opposite to

me you know and by the way I shouldn't

really say I'm bad at numbers because I

had a business partner in my 10 business

partner Esther my whole life I made her

my partner she was great at legal and

finance and she has to spent hours when

we wanted to open one or two new offices

doing the numbers to see if we could

afford it and I used to come into our

office and say what do you think she

says I don't think we should really do

it I said well let me tell you why we're

going to do it because you really need

to beat the next guy and let me tell you

if we have eighty thousand dollars and

the desk produces only 40 42 it's going

to take us about nine months to actually

meet our overhead and we'll have to cut

back on the advertising we'll have the

managers work for free

and she'd say what and it worked every

time so I must have had a

taste for numbers in that kind of a way

I could always see the picture on

numbers and I'd be right it was bugged

the crap out of her because she had all

the numbers you know but

um yeah but I'm not good at adding up

the numbers at all a lot of people think

I think it's really liberating to hear

that they probably exclude themselves

mentally of being a business person

because they are bad at numbers oh gosh

I think numbers are the least important

thing in business by far I look at all

the entrepreneurs I've invested in Shark

Tank I am telling you

the most successful I hope I'm not

giving anybody the short haul here but

the most successful are not good at

numbers they're exceptional at people I

think if you're great at people and you

have ambition you have the two magic

cards

To Succeed in Business you do that's

what it's about people and ambition the

drive to get to the Finish Line yeah

then you find a way you hire the people

you need you borrow the people you need

you exchange your gift for their gift

part-time if you have to get what you

need but you always get what you need if

you know what you need

talking about boring you borrowed a

thousand dollars off Ray yeah Ramon

Simone yep Ramon Simone nice name huh

Ramon Simone wow okay and he was your

boyfriend at the time he was my

boyfriend I met him at the diner that

was my last Diner job and he offered to

loan me a thousand dollars to start a

business within three months did you ask

him for the money no he said you've got

a great personality you'd be great in

real estate sales why don't you start a

business and that's how it happened

really yeah so he had a gift for seeing

Talent obviously

you know

and then off you go 24 years old you

started you're right 23 but 23. let me

tell you something thank God at 23 you

don't know what to be afraid of

you don't know what falling off a

Cliff's about and at 23 and poor

you have nothing to lose there was no

risk involved I could always get my

Diner job back or any waitress job or a

pool hander I had millions of jobs I

could get I wasn't afraid of being

unemployed so I figured what the heck

I'll try it let's see where it goes

however what I didn't know and when the

light went on in my head was I didn't

know how much I would like being a boss

first day I'm like I love this did I

like real estate I didn't really care

about real estate did I like the people

I was meeting they're all nice but I had

been meeting nice people my whole life

but I love the fact that I was in charge

and so I loved real estate I love the

people I love the paint on the wall I

loved everything because I was a boss I

was bent meant for being a boss I felt

so freed

so free to dream and do whatever I

wanted and nobody could tell me what to

do it was just it was the greatest gift

of all freedom

freedom

I'm getting juicy just talking about it

[Laughter]

that real estate company became very big

am I right in thinking it became the

biggest

um residential firm in New York yes

before I sold it we were number one the

biggest residential real estate firm in

New York

why

because there's so many residential

firms in New York there's so many like

real estate people they're everywhere I

mean every person I meet is in real

estate in New York so how do you become

the best

honestly I think uh there's a lot of

reasons how you succeed right but I

think the major cards were

I was competing with the old boys

network and they were asleep at the

wheel

it's not that they didn't do good work

but you have to realize real estate

Brokerage in New York when I was started

and I guess it's somewhat the same was

controlled by Rich guys who inherited

the business from their father or their

grandfather before them so they were

very important very self-important very

well educated very good at what they did

but they did the same old thing they did

it the same old way and they also hired

people like themselves they were white

privileged and they hired white

privileged women to work for them that

was a whole cast of characters when I

came in I couldn't get those white

privileged women to work for me because

I was a kid I didn't know anything and

it was it would no status associated

with it we were a new kid in town we had

three people who was going to work for

me I had a big barn steel to get anybody

to work for me and so they were cocky

and the minute I smelled that they were

cocky which happened to me about the

third year in business when I went to a

large real estate Board of New York

meaning I I was I remember I went home

and I said I'm going to beat these guys

and I knew it because they were very

cocky that they were in charge and what

weakness did that create a tremendous

weakness they're blind it's like

competing with blind people they were

also Rich enough not to want to lose

money when the market went South which

happens again and again in real estate

it's up down Market they would not spend

money they would hold their money in and

protect it they would not take a chance

because of the reputation they would

check check what they were going to do

against the committee I didn't have

committees they would check what they

were going to do against their attorneys

they had attorneys they were all stop

signs I would think of an idea on a

Tuesday and have it in the street by

Wednesday they would think of an idea on

Tuesday if they even thought of it or if

they listened to a good employee who had

a good idea which tended not to do it

was always their ideas but if they list

listen to that employee they'd have to

check it with the committee work it up

the line talk to their dad talk to the

attorneys I'm like thank God they're in

quicksand so I think a big reason why I

was able to succeed is because I

competed against the norm of an old boy

network if I had to compete with other

people like me wanting to prove

something desperate to make a a go of it

I would have had that hunger to compete

with these guys weren't Hungary they

were well-fed and well vacationed and

they liked it that way

one of the things I took from that is um

whenever you're competing against like a

big complacent

slow incumbent being the opposite of the

incumbent is the winning strategy you

were quick because you didn't have that

bureaucracy old sign off for lawyers you

were like high risk you are agile

and you were naive

you know what else I had which isn't to

be underestimating I had a wonderful

imagination I would think of the

greatest [ __ ] to create publicity

every day of the week I just would dream

up some stupid stuff

and give it to the papers or the or the

TV stations I would churn out reports

that I had no business turning out but I

could think of an idea a minute and I

would just throw it out there and see

what happened uh nobody was thinking of

new ideas in real estate it was about

controlling the listing market and

controlling the number of bodies working

for you that was the only game in town

not how you did it or what differently

you could do nobody even really was

concerned about the customer or the

sellers they just want to know if they

had a contact with them because it was a

contact game but I came into a different

generation where contacts meant Less in

New York as the Waters of New York

changed and everybody started coming to

New York at different nationalities and

different colored colors of people

everything was changing and these guys

really thought it was not changed you

know so it was such an advantage to have

a lot of ideas and to have to have

tattered soldiers anybody to get your

hands on and to make them believe they

were as good as the fancy people and my

people believe they were as good and you

know what they were as good and they

were better in the end because they all

hustled and they all had something to

prove you know we were all the poor kids

trying to make it make it in New York

you know so we were all driven you know

we're soulmates in a way

fat company culture and that like

philosophy you're citing that as being

really pivotal to to why you were

successful what what does that mean like

culture and how do you go about creating

that culture yeah the main the main

character is having fun with your people

all right I put fun before anything I

mean I certainly wanted to drive sales

hard open new offices hire new people

nurture great management system all the

things that go into any business but

more than that I wanted to make sure

everybody loved each other and the way

you get to break down barriers between

people who all compete with each other

remember in sales you like who you're

working with but you don't really

totally like them because they're after

your market so you have friend enemies

really in a way and so I believe that

you uh if you had enough fun with your

people it was a great equalizer when

people laugh together they come up with

new ideas when people laugh together

they loosen up I used to have people uh

dressed for my party so they couldn't

come in I would have them addressed

1940s 1950s I had them cross-dress oh

what a rebellion at the Kingdom the

straight guys I'm not cross-dressing for

her of course they cross-dressed for me

I had a party where everybody dressed as

a nun I'm not going as enough of course

they came as do you know how exciting it

is to be in the Waldorf Astoria ballroom

and see a thousand nuns at a party it's

a blast and so much fun so we would have

picnics parties I would take the women

spontaneously hey come with me we're

going downstairs to Barney and buying a

new underwear why because it's so

bizarre and they all go down and pick

out the most expensive underwear they

could find I mean this bizarre stuff

made them tell everybody who wasn't in

the coming oh God guess what we did it

was an adventure and sooner or later

what happened after about I guess maybe

10 12 years I didn't have to recruit

anymore our reputation as being the best

place to work started recruiting for us

my sales people recruited for us just by

repeating stories that happened every

day and so I do believe you create a

great imaginative culture if you could

insist on giving as much attention to

planning good fun I don't mean boring

Christmas party we drink nothing like

that some bizarre means of having fun

everybody he doesn't have enough fun and

they want to stay with you I had no

turnover in my company none in a

business that's loaded with turnover of

course I fired a third of my staff

every year because they couldn't sell

but other than the ones I couldn't sell

no one ever left for another firm they

had too much fun at us why would they

leave for the same commission spread I

don't think so

five years in to that business to that

Venture Ramon Simone runs off with your

PA yes she's much prettier than I 10

years younger I don't blame him in

hindsight I don't blame him at the time

I didn't like it

he was your boyfriend at the time he was

my boyfriend at the time he was my 51

business partner because he took 51 he

said because he was financing The Firm

which was fair I was a managing partner

I like the way that sounded uh yes but

uh he ran off with my business with my

secretary uh the seventh year we were in

business yeah

that was shocking I didn't expect that

but you know those blows that happened

to you egos seem the worst at the time

but it doesn't take you long to realize

what why they happen and why they're the

best things I mean if he didn't run off

with her I would have never started the

Corker group I would still be Corcoran

someone working with him I mean that got

me off my butt to start my own company

without his help right away because I

was a scorned woman and I couldn't stand

seeing them throw kisses at each other

during the work day it drove me crazy

and so I left I just left we cut the

company in half at the time we only had

14 people he took seven I took seven and

off I went thank God that happened

and then he gave me those wonderful

parting words he'll never succeed

without me thank you Ray

did that drive you those words for I was

the physicist when he said that I was

like vicious I hated him for it but I

walked out the door hating him for it I

hated him for it the next month the year

after that and then Europe did that and

then I started thinking a word really

yeah

I realized it was a gift you know insult

uh can really be a wonderful motivator

with my entrepreneurs that are investing

on Shark Tank I love it when I can find

in an entrepreneur that had a horrible

dad had this go wrong that go wrong uh

because they're angry they're angry and

they have more to prove I love an

entrepreneur like that I relate to them

that prejudice you you experienced in in

that male dominated industry is it

easier to manipulate people when they

have a prejudice against you

first of all you have to realize they

didn't see me I was invisible to them

they didn't take me seriously why would

they take me seriously even the day I

realized I was invisible I realized I

had to Advantage I said nobody's

watching me does that make them easy to

manipulate these men

well I don't know if it meant I

manipulated them but it was easier to

compete with them because the word

manipulate is like a it's like a dirty

word but at the end of the day if

someone is thinking that you don't

matter and they're like disrespecting

you or they are sexist towards you

they're underestimation seems like an

opportunity it's a great opportunity

um you know who was easy to manipulate

though because when the business got

large we were more dependent on huge

development sites where they had three

four hundred condos for sale we'd have

to get control of that building and I

was a Salesman who got the control I

went out after the developers uh the

developers you could manipulate easily

as a Woman They had all men working for

them it was a man's world real estate uh

the developers uh didn't take me

seriously at all but I flirted I could

jolt I wore short skirts I dressed well

in tight suits I played my cards I wore

high heels even though my feet were

killing me yeah did I manipulate them of

course I did did I tell them they looked

handsome they were all handsome did I

tell them they were brilliant you're

brilliant they were all brilliant did I

manipulate yes I don't even think I'll

go to heaven I if you want to call it

manipulation

your Workforce if I if I spoke to one of

your employees and said

Barbara like to work with would you

imagine they would say to me I know what

they would say and you won't believe me

they would say I love Barbara well she

actually spoke to your assistant oh you

did well she's gonna lie

Emily yeah she said you were a nightmare

and I'm joking you wouldn't say that but

you know you have to ask you have to

realize who you're asking Emily is an

absolute angel on Earth she has never

had a bad day I don't I I wish I was her

she's incredible so you can't ask her

you have to ask a son of a [ __ ] who

works for me what would they say they

would say we love Barbara I'm telling

you and I deserve it I don't mean to

brag but I am the best boss I've ever

met by far and I don't think anyone

could be a better boss than me honest to

God and I think the root of being a good

boss is from the very first day I was in

business I understood the cardinal rule

which is I work for you you don't work

for me and that's my attitude my entire

life what can I do for you how can I

make a job earlier easier what don't you

like to do what would you rather do how

could I be this for you what what else

do you do you want I I shower my people

with anything they need

selflessly and you'd say well that

doesn't put the boss ahead it does

because as they get stronger and go up

the rank they carry me for a free ride

along with them that's how it goes no I

do believe the key to being a big a big

boss a growing boss and a great boss is

really understand you work for who's

working for you it's as simple as that

you know it's kind of like being a good

mother in a way you're slave to your

kids you just want to please your

children you know I've been thinking

about something recently about how um

leadership isn't about being and this

kind of sounds like it's wrong but let

me explain leadership isn't about being

consistent with your people some people

in your team will require a certain type

of treatment to get the best out of them

and then some people in your team will

require probably the opposite treatment

to get the best out of them do can you

relate to that does that strike so can I

tell you it's a misnomer that you would

treat anyone like someone else no I was

biased with every single person who work

with me I would do different things for

different people based on their own need

I would just really size them up what's

going to push this kid ahead what's

going to make this person have

confidence what could I do to and I had

a different formula for everyone no I

think the key was knowing each

individual and what floats their boat

what's important to them what's going to

make them better no I was never even

handed ever with any of the people I

worked with because they were all

individuals and today more than ever

people really want to be individuals

they want to be treated as individuals

they their interests first you know I I

meet a lot of my peers who complain that

uh the modern day worker is it wants to

be promoted fast wants their interest

met I'm like well that's fine I've

always done that you know that's the

right way to handle people to get the

best out of people yeah no that's the

way to go wherever that philosophy came

from they haven't created a big team or

they know better what characteristic

would I have to demonstrate working for

you that would make you fire me quickest

fire you yeah attitude okay absolutely

uh you know what happens is as careful

as I was to hire and I control the

hiring for probably the first 10 years

of my business until we got to 500

people and went past that I couldn't do

it anymore I did some but not a lot

um

what I would love to do is call someone

to my office on Friday I love firing

people on Friday I would stop by

someone's desk on a Wednesday and say

hey would you have any time sometime on

Friday they should have heard about the

rumors yes what time is good for you too

see you too I couldn't wait till they

came in to fire them you know why

because I picked out individuals who

were negative and my attitude toward the

negative person was they were ruining my

good kids because people who are

negative have to have somebody else to

be negative with them they got to talk

to somebody complain okay I'm not

talking about people who tell you what

you're doing wrong they're invaluable so

that you can get better I'm telling my

chronic complainers and negative people

you gotta get rid of them so I learned

very early

after firing one negative person never

tell them why you're firing them

okay or you're getting a Rat's Nest why

am I negative why aren't I so no you

just don't fit the company but why I

don't know you just don't fit the

company maybe that's a little mean but I

never carried a negative person for more

than a couple of months sometimes

they're undercover at first but

eventually they come out like hey do you

have any time on Friday

[Music]

if you ever ask me for a meeting on

Friday

I'll take the Friday off

blimey why why are you so irked by

complainers and is there is it something

about the thieves

they're thieves they take your money

away and they take your energy and the

most valuable asset you have is your

energy

and if they take your energy away you're

not going to deliver enough to everybody

else is not enough to go around no

they're thieves in the night they come

in they got their hands in your pockets

and they're taking your goods that's how

I see negative people when you have a

team filled with very positive people

it's like they're stuffing your pockets

with money and jewels all the time it's

the way you want to be it's those people

you want to be around have you noticed

because I think I've noticed this that

you know my my first business where we

had about somewhere around 500 people

95 of my people problems were created by

like one person of course the complainer

yeah the negative person you didn't ever

work on Friday

no do you know what I didn't realize I

should have just made the decision

quickly to get rid of them but then I I

had that complex which bosses sometimes

have where I go well if I get rid of

them then it's going to impact the

culture and then they're going to do

this and sometimes there's so much of a

complainer and so negative they've

acquired so many ears to be negative too

there was this fear that if I if I fire

them then there's going to be even more

negativity like like a volcano of

negativity that was naivety on your part

yeah sure you found very differently

once you fired amen yeah amen I learned

the lesson and one of my philosophies

now is like as soon as you know as soon

as you know fast as you possibly can and

your point about

um don't say it's because they are you

can't say because you can't win at that

game yeah you know it took me probably

three years I I hired a great salesman

from another firm which was reaching for

me because I groomed all my own no one

wanted to come and someone actually

wanted to come and work for me from a

bigger firm I couldn't believe it I

hired this lady she was so negative

right away so negative she had two

percents outward when you're

interviewing and inward when they're

working for you and she was so so

negative and I really thought I could

change her around I'm such a positive

human being everybody who's positive I'm

gonna change her around and then I

learned the important lesson if her

parents could make her smile I wasn't

going to forget it they had this lady

for their whole life and she's miserable

I'm not gonna make her happy and so part

of it is admitting defeat that you're

not all that powerful where you're going

to turn somebody around no negative you

just get rid of them terrible

let's talk about something positive what

about compliments

compliments when they're genuine not

compliments that are empty and not

compliments in front of a group for the

sake of grandstanding I just don't

believe in it people see right through

the [ __ ] you know everybody you

could get somebody with the lowest IQ in

the world you [ __ ] them they know it

they just know it you just assume people

are smarter than they look okay and so I

think a genuine compliment with

specifics to back it up is the greatest

thing in the world and you'll make

someone fly and become even stronger the

next day but if it's not specific and

why that was so smart that you did and

what it did for us that's a compliment

let's give her a round of applause okay

that's the right kind of comment but you

know to find those compliments it is

creating a habit as a manager or a

business owner of looking for I would

walk through and try to find anything

good I could talk about anything anybody

did good that somebody would stitch on

and then I get the details down and then

give them a compliment individually if I

thought they're a private person but if

I thought they're a competitive person I

always sit in front of the group because

they're competitive and they want

everybody to see they're better you know

so yeah yes the compliments are so

powerful but you know they pass I think

the greatest compliment you could give

an individual is trust that they are

better than they think they are

and I honestly think that people write

themselves off for so much less than

they're capable of

um when you say to someone I noticed you

dress I'll give you an example because

this is a silly example but I got my

advertising manager she was a Salesman

who was mediocre meeting overhead and

turning a little profit but not great

and I looked at her every day and

thought she is such a beautiful dresser

which she can do with her hair with a

clothing is incredible and I went out of

my way to walk over to her desk she had

the perfect match she had the perfect

thing her desk looked like I wanted to

vacation there it was so gorgeous so I

said to her Anita how would you like to

be my advertising manager she said I

didn't know you had an advertising

manager I said I don't but how about you

take it now how did I know she would be

exceptional in advertising because

everything about her was put together I

figured that how to transfer to great

graphics beautiful design the land out

of the page because she was that was

kind of like a page I saw on her desk

she was incredible I I I think you just

have to find the gift in people and

point it out and think how can I take

advantage and Anita became probably the

the Envy of every firmer in the in the

in the city because of our great

advertising that wasn't me I got the

credit was her but I blossomed her her

up because I saw that gift in her you

know sounds like a stretch but it's

really not you know it's not a stretch

if you keep your eyes open and see what

people are good at

we talked about the mouth there with the

smile but what about the eyes

you mean looking at someone in the eyes

yeah oh you have to I mean do you trust

anyone who doesn't make eye contact

ever really there you figure they're

either insecure they shift insecure

dishonest or

probably those two that's what I would

say dishonest or insecure either way you

don't want to hang out with them no the

eyes are key all right because I read

that in the pandemic when you were

hiring for one of your roles you

basically there was 500 people and you

basically excluded everybody that didn't

make eye contact with the camera you've

read that about me yeah I think it was

probably exaggerated I don't think it

was 500 people but just uh you know a

lot of people yeah but a lot of people

definitely okay you don't make it

absolutely and you excluded everyone who

had bad lighting I did yeah why

because it showed a lack of

aggressiveness and caring for themselves

I felt I mean if I was interviewing for

a job and I knew it was competitive most

jobs are I would want to show my best

self I think through everything I mean

maybe me more than most people would do

it but I think if you show up with bad

lighting and then on top of that you

don't make good eye contact next please

no it's just terrible no it's very hard

to hire people through covet online but

I never did in the end whoever I hired I

insist I meet them in person you can't

really

to his thorough job unless you're in

person I believe or I've never been able

to learn how to do that I had a few

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Shark Tank where I'm a dragon on

Dragon's Den you're a shark on Shark

Tank all the same yeah means you're a

sucker does it to be fair I mean I think

dragons are slightly more impressive

than sharks I'm gonna be honest you

think Shy I think sharks are more

impressive sharks are real dragons don't

exist we're kind of dragons are silly

it's an old-fashioned where it's sharks

and sharks well sharks well I mean other

than Jaws what if sharks really done for

society whereas a dragon is you you're

someone of great imagination to to be a

dragon you have to have great

imagination because they don't exist

it's like being a unicorn so can we

agree that dragons are better I know I'm

afraid

okay well you're on Shark Tank and link

to what we just said about quickly

assessing if a person is is legit and

worth investing in

what have you learned you've been on the

show longer than I've been on the UK

version of the show

what advice would you give me

as a new Dragon to be successful from

your experience I would say keep your

money in your pocket for a little bit

yeah and my first few seasons of Shark

Tank I spent so much money threw money

at the wall at anything that moved yeah

so I hope you haven't made that mistake

I needed like 11 investments in my first

season so but uh for me I what I have

learned in 14 years and I've learned it

a good 10 years ago I'd say

is I never choose a business I always

choose the entrepreneur

I have sat there and listened to

business plans that I don't even know

what they're talking about I it makes no

sense to me what they're talking about

uh because it's not a business I know or

I don't understand the terminology

and in the old days I would have thought

I was too stupid but now I know I'm

smart enough that if I'm not

understanding it's okay I'm probably

still smart

but I have to be really smart in making

the choice of the individual do I trust

this person

can I visualize them going through a

wall

what's their background are they good at

getting back up do they have ambition

not passion passion's so overrated I

feel passionate this we really want to

do this like saying you're excited about

your first date who cares you know where

do you marry the lady and see how you

feel but I think the commitment and the

drive and the ambition is what I'm

always looking for I'm looking just just

trying to smell it out if someone says

they were poor and they didn't have a

father let's say I'm biased right away I

want to buy the business

you want to invest straight away it

doesn't mean I will because I have to

hear more about how they handle things

what kind of an individual they are but

no I'm very biased or I should really

say I'm I'm not very nice or fair-minded

with Rich Kids

the problem with investing in a business

owned by a rich kid is usually raise

money already rather easily it's not

Sweat Equity so you got a chunk of

change to get started okay that's nice

now you would think that would make

things easier I think it makes things

difficult you don't spend your money

wisely it's Papa's money or if or your

parents friends money or wherever you

got it from so it's not valuable money

and I've seen more people stand and say

well we pivoted we lost that we pivoted

what happened to the guys that gave me

the cash what happened to them no regard

at all okay when you get a poor kid they

typically have something to prove they

really have to stretch every penny it's

their own money they die and just get a

little bit more there's so much a

greater need and it's also a desire

to do well in living in their life they

want to go on vacations they too want to

get a sports car they want to get a nice

apartment these rich kids have had it

all before they've been on vacation

everywhere they've always had rich cars

Rich parents so I think it's so much

harder for rich kid to succeed as an

entrepreneur I just love poor kids and I

have to tell you out of my whole

portfolio I don't have a single rich kid

who succeeded

well most of it is because I don't

invest in them in the last five years

but even when I did years ago none of

them succeeded no they went on to do

something else my poor people those are

my winners yeah they're desperate to

succeed

the only thing that beats growing up

poor in cochrane's opinion is growing up

damaged oh

yeah

well aren't we all damaged in one way or

another right

but you could get damaged by money and

affluence so easily I think it's easier

to raise a poor kid than it is a rich

kid

because of the circles they fly in their

value systems who they measure

themselves against what they measure

I think it's more difficult to be an

affluent kid or affluent Rich parent and

raise a good kid a good kid with values

I really think it's harder you know when

I said I spoke to your assistant I did

but we did Emily right yeah okay Emily

good thing you talk to the good one oh

there's another one there's three and

they don't like me no more okay

um and she told me about some pictures

in your office that are hanging on the

wall oh those

the whole way of Doom

what is the whole way of Doom

well you see

anyone who's on Shark Tank as you

well-known Dragon stem has in night in

the Sun

where they're on the show and everybody

orders from them and they become almost

Rich overnight or at least they think

they're going to be rich and they're all

celebrating excited all right and then

something goes wrong with the business

maybe three to four months out that's my

timetable I'm waiting for that day

Something's Gonna go wrong it's not just

the patent didn't come through that's

minor stuff like the mold was wrong

where they delivered 10 000 pieces

they're made wrong and he had the patent

I didn't know he was going to give it to

me but he ran off with it

something goes wrong I just wait around

and I watch and I say how's it going

and there's only two different responses

to that which is he promised me you know

he promised me I mean the guy said he

was good

I go over to my wall and I turn the

entrepreneur's picture upside down to

remind myself never to talk to them

again or spend time no I'll talk to them

but I'm not going to spend my time

because they're victims and then you

have the one in four people who handle

it this way ah crap I can't believe I

made that mistake okay let's let's see

what we should do

that's an entrepreneur

moving on moving out and going forward

and taking the blame even if they

weren't to blame every one of my really

successful businesses I've done so well

have had the worst setbacks but they've

always taken responsibility and those

pictures are always right side up they

call me on myself hello how can I help

you because they're phenomenal

entrepreneurs I believe that the

difference between the really good ones

and the ones that don't make it are the

ones that don't make it know how to be a

victim they feel sorry for themselves

they blame the next guy and they don't

take the responsibility as their own and

that's what an entrepreneur does you're

the boss it's your problem period it's

your your problem rest with you now what

are you going to do about it and these

kids that are are really equipped to to

not hesitate at all but just get on the

horse and go Galloping go and go and go

and go go going again they're terrific I

invest in uh Four Women cousins who have

a very clever wow I don't know how

clever the business was but I'm their

clever over and they lost eight hundred

thousand dollars a month three stolen

from their accounts couldn't pay the

suppliers all of their sales were gone I

couldn't wait to talk to them I was not

going to say too bad it happened I said

hey hi I heard

what are you gonna do

well we're thinking already back on the

horse they recovered the end of the year

with something like seven million

dollars in sales how did they do it they

are just not victims they go forward

forward forward forward those are the

people I love I love them

this allergic reaction to complainers

and pessimists and get back to that

again no but does it come from I was

just reflecting on how much your mother

you said you never even saw her sleep no

she was just or she didn't complain she

just got on with it is it influenced by

that

um I'll tell you what my mother did

which did influence all of us uh if we

went to my mother uh with something my

brother John did to me well my sister

Ellen did to me something unfair we'd go

to her she took this from me she wasn't

supposed to my mother would punish us

both

she didn't hear the complaints she said

you're both punished sit down

you have an hour

that's it there was no sense in

complaining about anything so we never

complained we learn in short order as

little kids you don't complain you just

shut up otherwise you both get punished

and you know in business it's really

that way if you think about it uh yeah

if you're going to complain

you know I even had an incident I

learned very early on that just popped

in my head that reminded me so much of

my mother I had two department heads who

hated each other and I wasn't aware of

it someone brought my attention to it

anyway one came in and told me what why

this other department was getting in the

way and the other one in one of them

around I said wow this must be terrible

for you I was empathetic empathetic

listen to both complaints and then I

said we here with the second one I went

and got the first complainer and I said

okay girls uh you obviously have a

problem with the way you're working

together figure it out you're both fired

I was mimicking my mother figure it out

or you're both fine I left the room they

figured it out they never came to me

again with a complaint you know

yeah it worked it works against

everybody you know it just works against

everybody the culture of the business in

every way

Bill Bill oh [ __ ] bill

you know what all my friends call Bill

poor Bill this is not a shame I'm the

nice person bill is a difficult man and

yet everybody who knows us both calls

him poor Bill like he married the wrong

person

that is your husband yes 37 years he

said he's the nice one and you're the

difficult one who said that you spoke to

Bill you spoke to Bill yeah don't

believe it

I can't believe he even answered the

phone he's always watching TV I didn't

speak to him oh gosh

you know ironically if you did speak

with Bill Bill adores the ground I walk

on can never say anything negative and

all I do is complain about Bill

and all I do is say negative things

about him

I really mean it I'm a terrible wife

I really am not just saying that but you

should talk to Bill he'll confirm this I

did and he'd confirmed it I did your

terrible um the thing I was really

compelled by is I was reading how at

some point you started out earning Bill

yes and that in a relationship can have

an interesting Dynamic on the like

on the relationship yeah because of the

stuff definitely and that's what I was

reading about your story about it being

a struggle at some point you first lied

when you

out earned him for the first time you

put it down to an accounting error and

you seem to kind of not want to

it was tough at first you know when I

met Bill he owned a brokerage firm in

New Jersey and I earned I had one in New

York I had 19 20 people here 19 20

people we were even right and then

within the next four years I had 500

people and he had 22.

not a good scene all right we're both

earning about just able to pay our rent

kind of when we got married

uh but when it went a skew that I out

earned him by a mile uh you have ego at

risk you know really uh very much so

absolutely and I married the kind of guy

that was most bulletproof for feeling

ashamed about not earning money he was

an FBI agent he was a top selling agent

in New Jersey when he was a young stud

he graduated from Annapolis he was an

honored Navy Captain I mean he was

accomplished the head of the Republican

Club in the state of New Jersey

everything he did he was accomplished

all I did was run a business all right

however

all of that stuff is not measured by

money

you know once I was making a lot of

money

it was hard for Bill it was hard for

Bill it was like everybody knew me once

I had notoriety you're married to

Barbara he stopped being bullied Bill

Higgins the FBI agent he stopped being

Bill Higgins the Navy Captain I mean all

that stuff uh kind of didn't count as

much anymore and it should have because

we're in a New York town where everybody

values You by how popular and how much

money you make and he was less than me

but how did he stay with the marriage

after all these years

because Bill really doesn't have much

value for money he never did it's not

important to him he's just a nice guy

but I had an issue with it yeah I had an

issue I felt uh not feminine enough when

you out earn your husband you don't feel

that feminine you feel like the caveman

instead of cavewoman

we have a closing tradition on this

podcast yes this question is always left

by the okay the last guest

the last guest left the question for you

what did you learn from your greatest

failure

I learned that you get back up and all

the opportunities and getting back up

just got to be a habit of getting up you

get up and you're going to find some

[ __ ] that you could do something with

just get up

that's a habit you have to make that

habit Barbara thank you my pleasure

thank you for the inspiration thank you

for the humor you're hilarious and

Brilliant and equal measure and you're

you absolutely are you absolutely are

and you're you're definitely in my top

two favorite sharks you and Damien are

my favorites so oh forget about Damian

okay he's no good Mark's not good

thank you so much I don't want to be

among your favorite sharks I want to be

among your favorite people in the world

you're my favorite shark now now that

I've mentioned you're so funny but so

for sure for sure thank you for the

inspiration I don't believe you I'm

looking you in the eyes you can trust me

I do trust you you're very trustworthy I

can tell thank you so much Barbara

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