the number one reason for breakups is

not Finance infidelity it's if you do

that there's a 99% likelihood who break

up that's pretty crazy when you think

about it Paul Carrick Brunson the

world's most influential Matchmaker you

choose a weak partner not only do you

not live as long not as happy more

unhealthy but you could literally suffer

death so who you choose as the most

important decision you could make so I

have questions you ready for this

what is the state of dating it's a hell

of a problem how do you spot a

narcissist so the key is to this golden

mean thing in your book what is that

it's the optimal measure of what we

consider to be sexy poor women is the

percentage of your waist to your hips so

what is the future of dating I know a

lot of people would be mad at me for

this but you go there if you want to

it's like arrange marriages data shows

us people in the range marriage have

higher satisfaction because and this is

often where many people go wrong what

should I be looking for in a partner it

has come at 10 years of research on this

there's five key characteristics that we

need

one Paul I wanted to go over this thing

called attachment Theory because I think

I'm in avoidant attachment style I love

this topic there's some phenomenal

research looking at the number of

orgasms that people have based on their

attachment style and if they were

avoidant the data showed that no comment

Moving on but I have to say why though

this is important

quick one this is really really

fascinating to me on the back end of our

YouTube channel it says that

69.9% of you that watch this channel

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button I just wanted to ask you a favor

it helps this channel so much if you

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you do we have a

[Music]

deal

PA last time I had you on my show you

were a Smash Hit And I look at the

episodes and I can see the retention of

every conversation I have the retention

is essentially how many minutes of the

conversation someone listened to you and

you're a really

record breaker on our show in terms of

retention because the message that you

communicate is communicated in such a

compelling relatable way but you're

speaking to a problem that all of us

have in our lives which is this problem

of love yes and just I I know your story

but there's there's a chance that some

people that that have just clicked this

don't know your

story the wisdom you have what is the

experience that you've been on and how

long is that experience and what's the

sort of flavor and diversity of that

experience that has culminated in this

wisdom you have about relationship

science what have you been exposed to

and how long for I spent my first part

of my career in finance so I was a

researcher in Investment Banking I went

off got my business degree you know so I

I was on that track and then I switched

the track to focus on relationship

science and then in the process of

switching I had an opportunity to work

for two incredible people two

billionaires so in the Rel on the

finance side it was a gentleman by the

name of Enver Yugo who's a billionaire

out of turkey and owns the largest

for-profit education company in the

world and then when I switched into

relationship science I had an

opportunity of working for Oprah Winfrey

right and so these were two billionaires

and I say billionaires I underscore that

because they were two entirely different

people different characteristics

different uh setups at home but yet they

had the same behaviors and I started to

write about those behavor behaviors and

by writing about those behaviors I ended

up becoming a journalist for USA Today

my wife and I launched what was

considered to be the largest matchmaking

business in the United States and then

we sold that in 2017 and that's what

ended up allowing us to come to the UK

but the heart of what I do is I I'm the

world's biggest nerd when it comes to

relationship science I I wake up every

morning I'm reading some bit of research

I'm going to sleep every night falling

asleep uh on some lecture around around

relationship science I I think it's it's

one of the most

undervalued areas and the decisions that

we make around relationships are have

dramatic dramatic impact on how we show

up what happens in our lives what

happens to the lives of those around us

and what happens to the Lives who come

after us our children so these are very

important decisions and I think that's

the reason why it occupies so much of my

thought have you been exposed to any

first party data I know that you I think

maybe was it Tinder have shown you some

data yeah absolutely last year I became

the head of global insights for Tinder

and what that has allowed me to do is

see quite honestly more data on dating

that gives me more insight than I think

I'd say a lot of people in the world uh

i h i co-wrote a a report this year

called the future of dating 2023 uh that

looks at behavior on the app and also

Behavior around the world and I made

some projections in there j z is going

to have the

strongest strong the strongest marriages

ever which which a lot of look see face

everyone's like what yeah so so I made

some bold predictions in there um but uh

but but but but absolutely T Tinder that

partnership has allowed me some great

insights what is the state of dating

what is the future of dating in your

view I want to know like where we are as

a as a people and also I guess

understanding where we are we have to

understand where we've come from and

then from there we can understand where

we're going I guess yes yeah let's look

back okay so we you know humans 300,000

years ago right started there was no

dating it was more so what was called

assortative mating which was the

selection of other people based on

similar characteristics so we would look

at someone and say okay you behave

similar to how I behave you look kind of

like how I look therefore we will mate

and the whole objective was procreation

that was it in hunter gatherer days and

you could take that all the way up into

almost the

1800s so Eli finle is a great researcher

out of New York and he wrote one of my

favorite books the all Oro marriage and

he calls that entire phase the pragmatic

phase you were making a a a selection

based on the fact that you wanted to

live next week right that that was that

was why you chose a partner or or the

procreation of it but then between the

1800s and the 1960s is what Eli fle

calls the Romantic Period this is the

period where we began to say okay hold

on for a second the Industrial

Revolution is happening we're moving

into more nuclear fam so we're moving

away from our Clans if you will and

therefore I'm lonely I don't have my

cousins around me anymore I'm working in

this job all day this Factory all day so

this partner of mine who formerly was

all about pretty much just my sex

partner now is going to become my friend

so this romantic age is where you see

companionship rise but still in that

phase you're still not receiving all of

your value all of all of what you love

about a partner is not coming from just

the partner or should I say all of what

you need in life is not coming from your

partner your intellectual stimulation is

coming from someone down the street

right you have friends at work that you

use For Your Entertainment and joy but

your partner is beginning to become your

companion and that's the second phase

right that that's the second phase is

the Romantic phase and then in 1960 what

you see happening and this is in Western

Society is you see what the pill is

created you see the uh the the the the

the washing machine is created and these

inst these these tools if you will begin

to free women right we're still living

in a patriarchy hands down but in the

1960s you began to see women For the

First Time begin to have a little bit of

decision a little bit of choice in who

they chose as a partner and from the

1960s on you have what Eli fle calls the

age of

self-expression now the reason why this

is so important for us today is because

what ends up happening is now you move

forward to today what do we want well we

want the highest level of well-being as

maslo would say you think about maso's

hierarchy of needs at the bottom is you

just want food you just want shelter you

just want to be safe but as you get

those things you go higher and higher to

the pyramid and the top of the pyramid

is

self-actualization and this is what most

of us want because most of us are living

in a state of privilege we have water we

have food we have shelter so we want to

be our best selves we want to flourish

as Aristotle said we want to flourish so

if we want to flourish now then we need

a partner who can help us flourish it's

no longer about the 1800s or the 1,000

where you just needed a partner to to

you know basically have sex with and

make sure they could you know protect

you like we we're gone from that we now

we want

self-expression and if we want

self-expression we have different Di BS

on our partner and that means dating is

now more complicated than it has ever

been everybody thinks they want Choice

men and women we all think we want

choice but I I'm quite fascinated by the

psychology of choice and how it can

result in indecision but also valuing

what you've chosen less or more and

that's sort of context dependent I think

here about arranged marriages and you

talk about that in the book and what we

can learn from arranged marriages

because you know that's a situation

where you're given very little Choice

yes yeah so what happens there yeah this

is a controversial one in in the book

and I I know a lot of people are going

be mad at me for this but here's what

the data tells us that arranged

marriages on average last longer and

both and both people in the arranged

marriage have higher

satisfaction now I will also say a lot

of people are entering arranged

marriages with no decision a lot of

arranged marriages um are happening

where I would say are amoral right

however let's look at why it could be

because I think that's the beauty of

empirical evidence of research is it

allows you to think about the

possibility of why and what what can we

learn from this one of the reasons why

is because when we think we're in love

most of us are not most most of us are

in this blind state of limerance where

we are infatuated with the person in

front of us and we really know nothing

about them and we know nothing about

decision-making and we don't fully trust

them the sex is good right and we say

Okay I want to spend the rest of my life

with this person right what's happening

in most arranged marriages is you have a

village you have multiple people in your

sphere could be parents brothers sisters

friends who have your best interest and

they sit and they cohesively decide is

this the right partner for you and

they're looking at behaviors that you

may not be able to see you know I saw

this with my matchmaking agency in the

matchmaking agency the first thing that

we would do when a client would come in

is I would

interview friends and family co-workers

colleagues people you report to to

people who report to you previous

girlfriends you know love interests and

with that I would look for the consensus

and and I would I would use all of that

to say okay this is who step is he comes

in and he tells me this is who he is but

I talk to all of these people in his

sphere and I understand this is who he

is and the reason why we have a hard

time understanding who we are is because

of cognitive dissonance right we believe

as human beings we think that we behave

as we think we behave but we actually

don't like we we don't what we say we

value chances are we don't really value

that you know in matchmaking again I

would ask what are your values and then

they would give me this long list oh you

know I'm I'm a Christian uh and I uh

Value Health and right so this is what

you do and then two days later I'd say

okay last Saturday when you were off

work what did you do with your time oh I

went out and I pigged out I ate all day

and then I went to this concert and I

did this and I said well where was

church in that where was Bible study

where was this and what I've noticed is

that where we spend that free time where

we spend our discretionary

money that's what we value so true I've

thought a lot about this recently about

how what I say should be reflected in

how my calendar looks yes and that is

the true sort of evidence of me living

my values and really what I do value and

I think people struggle with this

sometimes because what they'll say and

rebuttal to that is well I'm just so

busy Paul I'm so so busy I've got kids

I've got you know mortgage to pay Etc I

have to say they are entirely right that

we have a finite amount of time but in

that they're showing what they value

they are showing that they value their

kids and their life their ability to

live and eat that is a value that is a

priority and this is also why I think

our values should be viewed in

especially as it relates to like how we

allocate our time as a as a list of

priorities I this is most important then

this then this then this then this

because we can value 20 things it

doesn't mean we're going to do them

because we you know time is finite but

values aren't necessarily they're

they're not I completely agree it it it

should be a level of prioritization

right and we should own we should

comfortably own what that is yes so if

it is time with your children then you

value that you know that's what you

value stand by that because the more

that you can stand by that and erect

boundaries around that the happier

you'll be the more fulfilled you'll be

and you you can spot it in the language

because if if I embodied what you just

said when someone asks Steve why haven't

you gone to the gym my response would

would

be I had other

priorities it wouldn't be I can't right

you know I couldn't or it wouldn't be

blame it wouldn't be excuses it would

literally be the the recognition that

there was other priorities that won and

that is okay that's okay that is okay

but it's so interesting so arranged

marriages people in arranged marriages

report high levels of satisfaction and

stay together longer yeah on on on

average and and and and even to to break

that down a bit right is you have the

the family making the decision right so

the family is able to see things that

you may not be able to see so that's

that's that's one big driver of it the

second driver of it is let's look at

traditional marriage now outside of a

ranged marriages right now and this is

Eli finle research 80% of current

marriages are more dissatisfied than

they ever have been ever and 20% are

more satisfied than they than they ever

have been now now why is that it's

because of what we were talking about

previously and that is is that we now

want so much more from our partner we we

want our partner to be our best friend

our lover our Co CEO our running buddy

our therapist our therapist right

spiritual leader spiritual leader our

Netflix and chill buddy like we we want

all of this now out of our partner and

so what many people are recognizing is

they're waking up they're saying you

know I can only get like 50% from from

my partner of what I want or 60% and

many people are not satisfied as a

result of that but the 20% are looking

at their partner they're using all of

these available tools we have we so much

incredible data around how to have a

successful relationship that if you are

putting in the work and your partner is

putting in the work you can be more

satisfied than ever right and so that's

the reason why a small percentage are

more satisfied so part of the reason why

that group is more satisfied than the

average is because the average is not

satisfied so if you're in that that sort

of 80% of unsatisfied people in their

relationships is one solution to that to

encourage or facil itate your partner in

meeting their needs in other places and

I say this because my partner lived in

barley for two years and then I was

living here so there was this

long-distance relationship where there

was we wouldn't see each other sometimes

for 60 days for two months especially

with the lockdowns and all that stuff it

was crazy and then we got to that point

in our relationship where we realized

that one of us has to move if this

relationship is going to going to work

so does she move to to London from b or

do I move my life to Bary okay which is

super difficult I was say pretty

yeah yeah yeah I quit dragging down I

saw the podcast it's like my business is

forget All for Love yeah but I I knew

that I could never ask her to to move

here I could never do that she had to

make that decision for herself because

I've seen scenarios where there's

resentment and all of these things and

contempt when you move you you it's

almost like you take on the

responsibility of that person if you if

you tell them to come to your to your

neck of the woods yeah and one of the

first things I thought about

was I'm a bus person and if she doesn't

have a friendship group here a purpose

here work here then I'm going to be have

to be the source of all of those things

yes and that's terrifying yes and I tell

you for the first part of our

relationship when she' moved here

I felt like I did have to be those

things once she' started her business

here and her with her business came a

community and it came her own little

tribe and her own sense of purpose and I

look over in the kitchen when I come

back from work and she's on the laptop

in the corner obsessed with her work and

I thought God yeah yeah yeah but that's

what it must have would have been like

back in the day when you were talking

about phase two of the history of

relationships oh oh yeah I mean that

that's that's the reason why it's it's

interesting why I mean to to to that

original question of yours is that we

are in such a complicated state right

now because we all have different goals

you know maybe in your relationship you

know it all it it it already sounds that

you and your girlfriend are interested

in self-actualization right you you want

to flourish yeah you know of course you

want to flourish but some people may not

want to flourish if you go down maso's

hierarchy of needs for some folks it's

just about belonging or it could be just

about self-esteem or it could be just

the safety I just know I have someone

with me just the safety so we so we have

these different needs and I think that's

why one of the most important things we

can do for ourselves is to identify what

is it that we want out of this world and

then

unapologetically go after it surround

yourself with people who are going after

it romantically professionally socially

you know find your tribe uh and that's

where you'll thrive on that point as

well you said about friends knowing you

better than you know yourself and kind

of by way of that knowing maybe what you

should be going for how important do you

think it is to listen to your friends

when they tell you that this ain't the

one he ain't the guy oh man I had a

conversation recently with a friend who

I Shan name who you know we're all

saying to this person listen this ain't

the guy and you can see this the Absolut

the point is absolutely not Landing you

must have seen this a million times all

the time all the time all the time if

all of your friends are saying this

ain't the guy this ain't the

guy no matter what it will not work out

100% of the times it it it it won't the

the the friend the I think there's

certain things that we did with this

matchmaking agency that I really think

were groundbreaking that was one if you

can look at what your friends and family

and all of the people who love you are

saying and they all say the same thing

that's the

truth and how important is it to get

your [ __ ] together before you go into a

relationship I've always wondered this

I've wondered do you go into a

relationship and the situation fixes you

or do you fix yourself then go into the

relationship you talk about this in the

book the idea that our satisfaction

levels in a relationship will vary based

on our satisfaction levels before the

relationship yes so this was one of the

most enlightening I think pieces of what

we're not hearing what we hear in pop

culture all the time is if you have

shared values that's what makes the

strongest marriage or that's what makes

the strongest relationship some people

say if you have great sex that's what

makes the strongest relationship but

actually what we found in the research

here is if you walk into a relationship

and you have a high level of

satisfaction that is what gives you the

highest level of satisfaction in the

relationship so the key is you want to

figure out how you could flourish you

know on your own on your own Carol riff

is one of the people who I don't think

she gets enough attention out here in

the relationship science space or even

in the world right she's a brilliant

researcher and in the 1980s she sat down

and she looked at every theorist who's

written about flourishing and then she

figures out the consensus what are all

of these great theorists saying about

flourishing and well-being and she

created what's called The Six Dimensions

of psychological well-being and I never

hear anyone talk about this it's like

the mo one of the most important

Concepts ever for us and what she's

outlined is that there's six areas we

should be focused on if we want to

flourish with or without a partner one

of them is personal development are you

on the path to personal growth are you

doing things to develop yourself right

number two do you have inspiration do

you have a goal that you are Marching

towards in life number three is autonomy

feeling like you have control over your

time next one number four is what's

called environmental mastery this is do

you feel like the area that you're in

physically the area that you're in the

city that you may live in the town that

you may live in is it conducive to you

doing all the things that you want to do

right in life next is having a strong

relationship with other people whether

it be romantically it could it could be

platonically but do you feel like you

have connections do do you have friends

right and last but not least is a

concept that she calls self-acceptance

this is very important self-acceptance

is knowing the demons that you have

inside and being okay with them it's

it's it's knowing and acknowledging that

you know I'm good but I do have some bad

and I accept my bad if you are working

towards all of those things all of those

six dimensions you will have the highest

level of well-being you'll reach

self-actualization and to your question

this is something that we should be

doing with or without a partner and if

you could do it without a partner when

you enter your partnership it will be

that much stronger people that you've

spoken to that are struggling in their

relationships do you think they have

this opinion that the relationship is

going to fix their problems yes yeah I I

I think we walk into relationships and

we think it's the end we think that's

check

done it's not it's it's it's where the

work begins and we have to change this

and a lot of this has to do with and you

know and I put some of the blame on me

you know I think some of this is

television you know some of this is is

is is the you know a lot of people call

it the disne ification you know of of

relationships uh

we misunderstand and misinterpret our

role in

relationships how I I fundamentally

believe that the number one reason for

breakups is not we we hear reports all

the time that it's Finance it's

infidelity it's no it's none of those

things you know what it is it's we pick

bad Partners we select the wrong

Partners or we don't make the selection

at all many of us and unfortunately I

see this a I see this a lot with

heterosexual women is they allow

themselves to be selected opposed to

making the choice themselves so so the

first part is is are we choosing the

strongest partners for us that's one and

then once we have chosen the partner

then are we working together to help our

partner unveil their best self you know

the Michelangelo effect and Eli finle

writes about this where you know

Michelangelo would never look at a stone

and say I'm going to carve this

beautiful statue instead he'd look at

the stone and say I'm going to unveil

this beautiful piece of art this

beautiful statue that's in the stone

that's how we should look at our partner

is that we all have this beautiful

statue within us and when you find the

strongest partner that allows you to see

that you know I know you've had Dr W

Dinger on Phenom like he says it in in

his research you live longer you're

happier you make more money you know you

get all of the benefits When you choose

a strong partner but if you choose a

weak partner not only do you not live as

long not only are you not as happy not

only are you more unhealthy but but you

can literally suffer not just emotional

and psychological distress there is a

rise of domestic violence that is

happening in our in these relationships

around the world so you could literally

suffer death death by choosing the wrong

partner and so it goes to show how

important the decision is this this is

this is a life or death decision I want

to go into all of those things you said

about selecting selecting poorly and the

life and death death the life and death

decision that comes with Psychopaths and

narcissists and all that stuff um you

know what's interesting is when you say

to me that the work starts at the

relationship there's part of me that

goes

oh do you know what I mean because in

the movies I was thinking of all these

movies I'd seen in New York where

there's a Twist there's a turn and then

there's a happily ever after and the

movie ends and and you think when the

movie ends in all of these movies that

we've watched for 10 20 30 years you

think that is the end you think they

live happily ever after I watched the

turmoil I watched the battle and then

they live happily ever after if that

movie was to be extended any movie we've

seen romantic movie what you'd then see

is another 30 years of like [ __ ] but

we don't see that so I was just thinking

like where did we get this idea from

that the work stops when we find the

person yeah it's it's it's it's coming

so it's coming from a couple places one

is that's where it did stop at one point

you think about the pragmatic stage the

Romantic stage that was all you needed

you just needed the partner it didn't

matter you didn't have to do any work

with the partner so so we we have gotten

this honestly as a as a society but also

it's what pop culture it's what media

it's it's it's what it feeds us but I

would say

don't look at it as hard distasteful

work yeah instead here's a better way

let's reframe it reframe the negative

right is this podcast right

Incredible One skill you're probably

learning incredible skills doing this

one of which I'm sure is your active

listening is off the charts now compared

to what it maybe was day one now if you

thought active listening I'm going to

learn active listening during this

podcast did you think then it would be

grueling I don't think so I think that

you probably saw that as a great life

skill I can come in here I'm going to

not only meet all I'm going to do all

this incredible things but I'm also

going to develop skills and these skills

are transferable to everything I do

that's how we should look at our

relationship look at it that way you are

going to learn incredible skills that

are transferable across your life and as

you develop those skills the whole Tide

Rises you're going to uh develop new

skills and and and better Master new

skills and then apply those to your

business apply those to to your platonic

relationship so it it's it's it's a

wonderful thing

and when you are in a secure

relationship it's boring as

hell it's boring which is why you know

uh not to get myself into trouble but

you know when you're watching television

and you're watching these shows around

Rel relationships uh actually I I'll

give an examp I will give an example um

when I got here to the UK uh I started

on a on a show called slubs go dating

and then I very quickly went to a show

called Married at First Sight UK and

when I was on Married at First Site UK

my first series it was a full docu

series and we matched couples and it was

boring you know why it was boring

because they all loved each other they

all really liked each other and out of

that group of four couples three of them

are together today wow right but you ask

anyone in the UK did you see that series

they'll say no we didn't see that

because it's boring and then you change

things and you get couples who can still

work but there's tension right for a

variety of reasons there's tension and

then it gets exciting and so one thing

that I always say is great love looks

boring boring but it feels great you

know good love it it feels it it good

love looks boring but it feels great

men men are struggling it seems I think

you know the more and more I talk on

this show about dating apps and what

it's like to be a man in this dating

climate especially one that's become

more digitalized than ever before the

conversation always emerges in the in

the in the com sort of like the comment

sections and stuff about men's struggles

here because you know these dating apps

they seem to

be not welld designed for the like

bottom 50% of men what is what what are

your thoughts on this yeah I'm I'm I'm

with you you know what I like about the

conversation today is we're finally

acknowled it's it's it's okay to

acknowledge that you know men are

getting crapped on you know I I feel

like just a year ago if you said that oh

no what are you talking about you know

we're still in the patriarchy you can't

no men are struggling High suicide rates

highest levels of loneliness highest

issues around mental health men are

struggling and the fact that we can just

ex talk about that and all acknowledge

okay let's figure out how to deal with

this is a good place to begin right but

but but now we now we have to begin you

know it begins with the awareness and

talking about it it extends into

creating safe spaces for men to be able

to talk I love that what you see now is

you see these podcast

communities um creating these spaces

where men feel like they can be

acknowledged and seen and that allows

for there to be connection with other

men going through those same challenges

which creates camaraderie and helps you

to uh to to break out of that loneliness

so so so we're we're we're on the path

uh but we have to acknowledge some of

those larger trends that we see I know

Richard Reeves uh talks about this quite

a bit phenomenal book of boys and men

where you can see uh just the levels of

unemployment the lower levels of

educational attainment uh for for men

the high levels of uh of drug usage the

high levels of what uh Richard Reeves

calls sedation essentially is uh drug

usage uh pornography watching where uh

you have a large number of men just

sedating themselves out of pain right

out of loneliness and so I I think we're

in a great place to begin working on the

problem but it's a hell of a problem in

your book on uh page 72 it says that in

the Tinder research you found that one

of the main reasons men aren't in

relationships is because of rejection

yes fear of rejection yes number one and

and many people would laugh at that they

would laugh at that stat what men walk

to me all the time so how is it that men

are fearful of rejection but the fact of

the matter is that the majority of men

report the number one reason why they

believe they can't find a significant

other is the fear of being rejected

think about that and that's not just in

person that's online feeling as if you

were going to deny me you're going to

reject me and to me that speaks to

self-esteem to me that speaks to

self-love to me that speaks to selfworth

and so therefore we have to really

evaluate the the the why the the why why

is that you know but I think this is

such an important point and this is why

we have to look back let's look at

history why is it the case that the

Calvin Klein model or why is it the case

that the higher status person gets more

interaction if you think back to

pragmatic right if you were a

woman what did you need to

survive uh I needed a mate that would

protect me exactly now the protection

would come in one of two things and I

say that because at some point I'm going

to be eight and a half months pregnant

and I I ain't going to be able to hunt

no you know or forage or I don't know

exactly and so so you need to have the

protection and the protection came in in

one of two ways one physicality right

soone just strong and fight but the

other was high social status resources

which would bring resources which would

bring resources and therefore you know

you'd have the protection because of

that so how long did that

continue yeah most of human history most

of human history so we have through

Evolution this has been indoctrinated

into our into our system and what is

rarely talked about is so you know there

were millions of men throughout history

who were not the Calvin Klein not the

biggest didn't have the social status so

what happened to them in history do you

know what happened to them most of them

they were the ones sent to

war these were the men fighting for

whatever country the the these were the

men when you when you watch Napoleon and

you see oh my God the Battle of waterl

you had tens of thousands of people

who's dying it's those men it's not the

high stat status men it's not it's not

the Calvin kin looking right it's those

men were dying and we've reached a point

in society where we're no longer

fighting Wars like that we're fighting

with drones and missiles you have

millions upon Millions upon millions of

men sitting there saying okay now what

about me what about me and this is the

problem this is where we are what about

men what were they selecting

for they were selecting for youth

fertility fertility yeah they they

wanted youth which which spoke to

fertility uh and that ran through time

and that's the reason why you see a

woman who you know I talk about this in

the book there's this golden mean golden

mean I read this and it was the first

time I'd ever heard of this idea of the

golden mean but it was super interesting

the golden mean explained why my

girlfriend seems to like my shoulders

she doesn't care if I get fat I swear to

you I asked her one day I was like what

do you prefer cuz she asked me she said

what features do you prefer on me and

obviously I knew that was a trap so I

said

everything I'm not stupid but then when

she asked the question she I asked her

the question back I was like what what

features do you prefer on me she was

like your shoulders yeah and I was like

really I was like I thought they said

you wanted like I thought women wanted a

six-pack she was like she was holding my

shoulders she was like your shoulders

yes and then I read this golden mean

thing in your book and I was like ah

yeah yeah that's that's how I I I could

you know what's interesting I spot

everyone and I almost am calculating

golden mean because I'm always thinking

as a Matchmaker like I can match that so

the the golden mean has stood throughout

history and there's a different

calculation for for men and women for

women the calculation is the difference

between waste and hips right so it's the

percentage of your waist to your hips so

if on average your waist is 70% of what

your hips are that is considered to be

fertile right you're considered to be at

optimal you know you're optimal for

fertilization in in essence and you

could see that ratio tested throughout

time and you could see that ratio tested

throughout culture which is rare to go

to an Eastern collectivist society and

see something similar to what's

happening in a western uh

individualistic society and so the

golden mean stands through time and the

reason why it's so interesting is

because you look at like Twiggy in the

1970s I think uh in the UK and you say

gosh Twiggy so thin but she still had a

70% golden mean you you look at the you

know people talk about the the Kim

Kardashians of the world she has less

than 70% she's probably like 50% right

golden mean and so the golden mean is

the optimal measure of what we just

consider to be fertile therefore sexy on

average and so that hasn't been

influenced by you know magazines and

media and stuff like that that's just

with scientists think that's an eight

hum yes they think that that's an eight

but it is it is impacted by culture so

you go into different subcultures and

there might be more of an exaggeration

of the golden mean right so maybe it's

more than 70% or should I say less than

70% could be what's considered more

attractive so it is influenced but on

average that is it and the reason why I

say that is it is because uh many men

would argue oh no you'll say what what

are you are you you're you're a breast

man you're a leg man like what what what

is it like it's a Thanksgiving dinner

you know what I mean and uh those could

be characteristics and features that you

find sexy and attractive but on average

this is what will um what will light up

most most men and then for me for for

women when they're looking at a a man

the golden mean is the difference

between shoulders and waist and so if

you have if your waist is 70% or less

than your shoulders then that is

considered to be what someone who could

protect me that's where that comes from

you know and therefore throughout

hundreds of thousands of years of of of

of of History we get to the point where

okay it's sexy why is it sexy I don't

know he just look sexy no the reason why

I look sexy is because ultimately back

in the day he could have been a

protector so that's where that comes

from and in the matchmaking Community

what I used to do all the time is if I

had a client who was you know say a male

client and he didn't really represent

the the golden mean I'd say put on this

this this uh this this Blazer here you

know wide shoulder pad Blazer go out

there on that date um you know so the

golden mean is something that has stood

the test of time so many people are

going to be doing like shoulder

pressing tonight that's crazy that's all

you need to do yeah a little bit of

shoulder press that's it that's so crazy

um but it but it makes evolutionary

sense that there

is is it proportions the right word that

we would associate with fertility or you

know

protection what's this concept in

chapter 4 you talk about the concept of

mate value uh yeah this is this is I

feel like the whole book now is

controvers

this this give a quick

disclaim this is a another topic that a

lot of people want to push back on right

mate value is a

evolutionary

psychology term that is around

technically what value do we bring to

the mating Marketplace because when you

think about uh you know our evolution is

that we go on one or two paths in mating

we call it dating evolutionary they're

calling it mating long-term mating or

short-term mating right now short-term

mating is a separate Beast short-term

mating is literally I want to have sex

tonight therefore you're going to look

at different characteristics you're not

going to care if you can trust the

person you're not going to care like

you're going to look at what they look

like and that really might not mean

anything to you that's short-term ating

long-term mating is much different

long-term mating is just okay I'm

looking for a partner for life and part

of the calculation that we're doing

innately the calculation that we're

doing is what do we value the person

it's no different than someone saying oh

yeah he's a he's a nine or or or she

she's a 10 you know 10 out of 10 she's a

10 in essence that's what mate value is

but I look at mate value as all of the

ingredients that we bring to the table

so yes it is about physically how we

look it is about status in our job yeah

that's important but it's also about how

kind we are it's also about our Behavior

it's also about how confident we are

when when we walk into a room all of

these pieces add up to mate value but

the reason why I say it's it's so

important to know is because mate value

will also change based on the

context for example if I take so I keep

you're going to be my reference here if

if if I take you Stephen and I bring you

to Richmond Virginia where my wife is

from and we go to a restaurant you walk

in everyone is mesmerized by you the

moment you open your mouth yeah amazing

everyone is where is it

[Laughter]

rich what a

postcode

Richmond a note

here everyone is the moment the moment

that you speak wow I've never heard an

accent like that tell me more about you

right they're intrigued it's what I call

the premium effect that lands on top of

the mate value right but we have to

understand that there is a value that we

assign people when we are mating or

dating you conveniently skipped over the

one about having kids oh yeah yeah yeah

no no but so having kids it goes up or

it it brings your value up or it brings

your value down now it depends on what

your partner is seeking so if you if if

you if CH so chances are let's say that

you are a woman uh you have children and

you are uh you're you're dating a a man

who does not yet have children and wants

to have children chances are that is

going to lower in his eyes on average

that's going to lower the that's going

to lower your perceived mate value

however however if he has children or

maybe he's a little bit older or what

for for whatever the reason he could

look at that as as as as an upside the

point there though is that it's the

context that changes your mate value and

that's very important the context is

what changes it so this premium effect

you talked about then when you're

talking about um Richmond Virginia how

can one use that to increase my chance

of finding someone to fall in love with

and just just give a bit of color on

what you mean by the premium effect is

it being a scarce commodity in a certain

environment yeah that's exactly or a

desirable commodity in a certain

environment it it's being scarce scarce

okay yeah so when we started the

matchmaking agency it was focused

exclusively for black women and the

reason why is because I felt as if black

women were being highly discriminated

against in the matchmaking

space and so I was trying everything and

so I thought you know what I'm going to

do I'm going to start putting my clients

on dating apps and I will act as them

and I saw that they were not getting

traction is that statistically

proven I'd love to know yeah you know I

will say from all of my experience in

matchmaking it was that black women got

less matches on dating apps less swipes

it it in in my time when I was running

that dating agency absolutely absolutely

hands like hands down there there there

was no question why well you know

there's lots of reasons one reason is

that when it comes to outside of gen Z

so if you look at Millennials you look

at Gen X you look at baby boomers and at

that time gen Z wasn't yet on dating

apps we're talking about Millennials and

higher we typically choose ethnicity

over every other category so ethnicity

ended up being one of the first

selections of a partner and we would

either bring you you know we would

either include you or exclude you based

on ethnicity jenz has changed this and

I'm and I'm so happy to see this genz is

the first generation to at majority have

interest in everyone so on Tinder for

example we see that 80% of our gen Z

they are not just open but they have

dated someone outside of their ethnicity

and I believe that we're entering this

new phase of what I call we are we are

inter everything we are inter ethnic

International

interreligious that to me is is is is

beautiful but that didn't happen for

Millennials it definitely didn't happen

for Gen X and definitely not for baby

boomer so ethnicity was number one so

because of that and because of the pools

of uh black men on dating apps of that

age range were so much smaller that you

saw a very small selection rate for

black women so that's what was driving

the low low low perceived interest but

what I didn't like what was happening is

you would see this data come out uh you

know black women are not selected or not

swiped on or whatever it may be and it

would be projected as black women are

not desirable which is app like the most

ridiculous thing in the world I was like

what are you talking about but the

reason why is because they were taking

these small data sets and essentially

claiming this larger narrative based on

this small data set and so when I was

experimenting with those uh W with with

my clients I then said okay what would

happen if I put my black female clients

onto J date right Jewish date you know

and they were not Jewish like they were

Ultra Christian right what would happen

so I started putting them on J date

phenomenal success

like phenomenal success phenomenal

success there was a percentage of people

who responded who were crude why are you

here there was a percentage of people

who responded who were obviously

fetishizing oh I want to do this to you

right but then there was a percentage of

people who were just curious let's see

why did you that's interesting I you're

why are you here like let's let's have

this conversation and the

interactions were

plentiful and what I realized there is

there was a premium effect being

assigned there was a extra value that

they got by being the scarce commodity

in in this space and so my objective

with a lot of my clients was to take

them and put them in places where they

are few that's so interesting and and we

can do that IRL as well we can put

ourselves in situations where we're

scarce in real life is it going to like

a different type of sports club or you

know what what what is that yeah so I um

I I try this out here I have a friend

who lives in hartfordshire she is a

white woman friend 30

mid-30s uh completely open to meeting

everyone right she's like Paul I'm

single I don't know what to do I said

all right here here's what you do come

on down to South London I want you to go

to this exhibit that's happening at the

black cultural archives in

Brixton and I want you to go down there

and you just tell me what happened she

went down she was like oh my God it was

crazy I met blah blah blah blah blah and

and and and the point was that she put

herself in a place where she was a quote

unquote scarce commodity if you if you

want to look at it in economic terms

which I like you know that's exactly

what she did and she met incredible

people now did she have romantic uh

connection there no but she walked out

of there with two friends that she's

kept in touch with you know for a year

plus so think about where your interest

lie but where you can step out and be

different where you could be unique you

can do that in every aspect of your life

but you know what the underlying driver

is to being able to do that

is

self-esteem because the higher

self-esteem you have the less external

validation you need unless you need to

conform to the environment exactly even

there's some great studies that show

that the higher self-esteem you have the

less you need to have someone who's

traditionally

attractive interesting yeah because you

start to see all of the value all all

the beautiful nature and behaviors of

and physicality of someone and you don't

need to walk down the street and have

everyone say he looks like he he's so

beautiful or she's so beautiful you know

you have value in that person so

therefore you know and and so high

self-esteem is indicative of so many

aspects of our life and you could show

up get that premium effect if you have

high self-esteem I've never heard anyone

talk about this before and that is so

interesting cuz I I was every time I

hear an idea I think all at home

everyone listening to this will kind of

sense check the concept on like friends

they know and people they know and I and

I would say that of all of my of

everybody I know the people that are

typically lower self-esteem are those

that are most focused on appearances and

looks in fact there's one of my friends

who when he he called me one day in the

gym and said I'm not sure about his

current partner um and I like why what's

up he goes you know like when I walk

into a restaurant with her on my arm I

just don't know how it looks literally

that's what what he said to me and I

remember having the conversation with

him like bro you are screwed if that's

what you're judging this individual

based on how they look on your arm yes

but it's a but it's a consequence of his

own need for validation from the person

he's with and and then it's no surprise

that the other correlation you see is

those people are proba still single

those are my still friends that are

still single the ones that care the most

about that that can currently have the

most the lowest self-esteem are also the

ones that are still missing probably

great people for looking at the wrong

things there you go that's why we need

to be in a state of flourishing

ourselves before we go out there because

because think if if he was able to just

take a breather work on his self-esteem

there's so many things you could do

boost your self-esteem think of how

incredible his next relationship would

be facts yeah yeah self-esteem is is

really where it's at like it's it's

underrated that's so interesting this

idea that when we have low self-esteem

will care more about how the person

looks because they

are we believe that they can boost our

self-esteem by just being next to them

that's crazy yeah and well more so we

believe that Society accepts them and we

won't be shamed by society as a result

of being with them right because we want

the validation from society when we have

low self-esteem but if you have high

self-esteem you say you know what this

is my partner and I don't care what you

think it doesn't matter what you think

I'm happy then you can walk down the

street with

anyone and if you encountered in your

work as a Matchmaker back in the day

someone who was low self-esteem what

would you suggest them to do would it

would it be therapy would was there

something small they could do in their

life a first step they could take yeah I

mean so so what we would do with the

agency is we would not even start

matchmaking them until we went through

months and months and months coaching

right now what are some things that you

could do practical things you could do

it's about practicing self-compassion is

a great way to boost self-esteem so that

could be journaling that could be

meditating that could be exercising it

also is about setting goals achievable

goals and accomplishing those goals that

helps to boost your self-esteem on the

pathway to mastering something boosts

self-esteem for example

during lockdown I started learning the

the piano right just started learning it

and once I got to phase two of my little

piano you know at home tutorial I got a

little boost okay I can do a little

thing and then I played uh Wang Clan

casuales everything around me I did

cream on my piano and just doing

that boost self-esteem right so the

Mastery of something

small self-compassion surrounding

yourself with other people who have

self-esteem High self-esteem these are

some basic ways to help to boost it I I

was thinking a lot about this and I said

um I said to one of my friends the other

day about this idea of keeping

commitments to yourself and I think I

was talking about it with Chris

Williamson as well about the commitments

we keep to ourselves when no one is

watching feed into our self-image like I

think some of us think that self-esteem

is what we've like accomplished in Life

or what we haven't accomplished in life

but if we narrow it right down and zoom

right into like this morning I told

myself I was going to get out of bed at

9: but I hit the snooze button now it

seems trivial but in that one decision

to not keep a commitment to yourself you

wrote a little line into this the Paul

Brunson story which is actually an

instruction manual that governs your

life and this the line you wrote into

that story is I'm the type of person

that frequently isn't able to do what I

want to do and that's an instruction

that you then when you go to work that

when you show up when you know you think

about your big Ambitions in life it's an

instruction it's a line of code written

into who you are so I've got really

obsessed with this idea of these small

commitments and the great thing about

small things is they're easy to do and

also easy not to do but they're also

easy to do but we because they're easy

not to do and because they seem small

and trivial we tend to overlook them so

this idea that like start by keeping

these small commitments to yourself that

you make could be the the pathway to the

big results that we're seeking

you know because we look up at these

these figures on Instagram and on social

media that are like saying earlier like

running ultramarathons and they're

starting these businesses and killing

the game and we go how the [ __ ] did they

get up there it must have been one big

decision they made it's baby steps you

know baby steps and and you said

something that I think is very important

within self-esteem and that is is that

you've exercised it there's an action

it's not just about I'm going to set my

goal as going to wake up at a certain

time or going to no it's that you have

you woke up at a certain time you you

you've exercised it this is the key

piece and it is it's it's it's about all

of those small steps it's about the

consistency of the small steps and I

think you you've seen this in you must

have seen this in your life is that what

that does is it builds habits that you

then build upon and then what you'll

notice is is that the the tasks become

bigger and bigger and bigger but you're

able to do it because you have the

foundation of the smaller task I've

often wondered if there's a generation

that are kind of trapped between how

things used to be which is you know

meeting people in your village down at

church in real life and then there was

this sort of digital surge where most

people now meet online I wonder if

there's like this generation that are

trapped in between the two where they

were of a certain age where their

everyone around them was kind of meeting

um in real life they didn't manage to

meet meet someone then the digital age

exploded and it's literally like this

vertical line up when you look at the

graphs just suddenly everyone's meeting

online and they don't have the digital

skills they don't have the social media

they don't know how to like upload a

photo yeah but their way of dating this

IRL way of dating is now gone out of

fashion and no one's doing it yeah and

they would roughly be if I had to Hazard

a guess at their age they're

probably

35 yeah plus now 35 Plus but it's it's

the 50 the 50 year olds or should I say

the

45 are are getting hit and the reason

why is is exactly what you're saying but

then what's happened is so the number

one age of new daters in the world is

age 18 right we see this on the dating

apps 18 people download the dating apps

they're out on the dating scene but you

know what the number two age range is

well I know because you said it for 5

yeah right and why it's because of

emptiness syndrome ah you and your

partner you've had two children they go

off to University you look and you say I

don't even know you anymore I don't know

you so peace I'm gone and then you break

up and then you reenter the dating

market and you're like oh my God we we

didn't have dating apps when I was doing

this and you're completely confused as

to what to do but I'm going to tell you

something Wild and that is is they end

up doing quite

well you know why because they show up

as their authentic self what we've what

we've been learning I think on social

media for so long is you know create

your

representative yeah you go to 80% maybe

even 90% of folks Instagram it's just

their representative it's it's it's not

them right and so on these dating apps

Etc it's the representative but a lot

lot of these people who have never used

an app before they go online they're

they they they write down the imperfect

profile they they they write they talk

about their what they're scared of what

what their fears are their

vulnerabilities they post the photos

without filters right because they don't

even know how to use a filter and you

think they're going to not do well and

they end up doing extraordinarily well

because they show up as their authentic

self what the data is showing us more

than ever is that

authenticity is what wins leaning into

your quirks leaning into the things that

make you

extraordinary you know I I I I say this

all the time to to to people who I've

coached and that is is that think about

you right there have been billions of

people who have walked this planet

before you but no one ever walked this

Earth with the same experiences as you

or the same skills and guess what right

now 8 billion people in the world no one

sees the world exactly like you see it

no one has your skills no one looks

precisely like you and guess what it

gets even better because no one who will

ever live on this planet will ever look

precisely like you talk precisely like

you see the world precisely like you so

therefore guess what you are

extraordinary you are truly special you

are truly unique there's no one ever

like you so if you only that you win

what if I'm an [ __ ] you

you well well you know what see are you

a narcissistic psychopath [ __ ] like

you know what I mean like if you if you

if you don't like who you are you don't

want to put that out there you want to

you know filter it you know F face tune

it yeah trim it cut it expand it I'm

with you I'm with you so yes many of us

don't like you know various parts of who

we are the key is to embrace the good

but going back to Carol riffs six

dimensions of psychological well-being

self-acceptance is to say you know what

these three things I do yeah [ __ ] do

those three things but do I lay that out

no well here's what you in a dating app

no in a dating app you lay out what it

is that you desire what it is that you

are seeking but are you transparent

about those things when you're

interacting with them absolutely you're

transparent because if those [ __ ]

traits are part of you it's going to

show up in your Behavior so you alert

the person ahead of time I'm working on

these things I don't want to scare them

off no you don't but you want to be your

true self but it depends on on what kind

of trait we're talking about though so I

mean you'd have to give me example okay

I'll give you an example I um this is

I'm playing a role here okay so people

don't clip this and put it on the

internet but say that I had a toxic

trait where I get Ultra needy and I'm

like very jealous and I'm very easily

tricked by anything that makes me feel

like you're cheating on me or you're you

know I'm like insecure from like maybe

you know something that happened when I

was younger or whatever okay this is

good A lot of people have this so you'd

be very anxious the sounds very uh

typical of of of an anxious uh

attachment style so the question is is

are you working on it because if you're

if you're working on that and you

acknowledge that that's someone that

that's a great relationship to be in cuz

someone is proactively working on their

truma

but if you tell me this is how I am and

I'm doing nothing about it well that's a

problem I want this relationship so I

can work on it with you no well the best

time to work on this relationship is

before you're in it

goodbye that's pretty much what it is

and and but but you know what those are

the type of conversations that we should

be having how can I work on it before

the relationship so say in that case of

insecure jealous anxious type does that

mean like going to therapy and you when

you say working on it yeah okay great

question so let's first say this about

therapy I have tons of friends who are

some of the top therapists in the world

love it but when you look at the

satisfaction rate that most people

report going to therapists very low very

low if you look at the access to

therapists or top therapists very hard

to get access so most people cannot go

so I'm I'm consciously always saying

okay it's important to be able to go if

you can but most of this work you have

to do on your on your own first part is

and this is not me to be self- serving

here but I think podcasts are incredible

in creating awareness but I will say on

this particular podcast quite honestly

you've had all of the greats within this

space all of the greats from we talked

about Dr waldinger to uh Gabor mate like

you've had all of the greats who will

give you a taste of what you need to

create that awareness and then you dig

deeper you purchase the book yeah you

purchase the book and then you do the

work in the book Gabor mate all the time

he talks about you know what you you

should do let's meditate let's Journal

like he prescribes he sets it out but a

lot of us don't want to do that level of

Investigation no way we want quick easy

and now and now yeah but guess what

you're not going to get to that level of

flourishing if that's all you desire

like

yeah I

mean

mediocrity is common like being mediocre

should I say is common the moment that

you can step one level above being

mediocre in society today you typically

are seen that's how low the bar is it's

the same way in relationships but it's

also the same way in the relationship

that you have with yourself if you do

any bit of work you become a

exceptionally better for you for your

partner just just a little bit of work

learn to act actively listen learn to

learn to just simply

respond which is active listening versus

reacting that's a game changer it's this

it's this there's this idea of like

metacognition which is thinking about

your thinking and when me and my partner

have a disagreement now I it's almost

like I now have this metacognition it's

like I'm I'm watching the situation

anding the situation and makes such a

big deal my girlfriend was saying

something to me the other day and in my

head I'm going think about how you're

listening make sure you're listening

intently make sure she feels Hur that's

what my brain is saying now yeah that's

it but before it was all like

[ __ ] I need to let her know how she's

wrong yeah but see this is the work yeah

this is the work that we were talking

about that you were doing that is work

yeah but it's paying dividends it's like

the return on investment on learning the

skills is infinite it's because I'm sure

you take that into your business you

take that into uh social situations

active listening stepping outside of

yourself the the the these skills change

your life and to go back to Dr

waldinger's work is when you're able to

make these small adjustments in your

life you're happier less stress you live

longer you make more money the the

rewards are infinite this old the

generation that we said we think might

be trapped a little bit in a

technological transition one of the

things my friends that are part of that

generation say to me is that there's

just no people left anymore and one of

my friends has actually said to me a few

times that she needs to put herself in a

situation where she's going to meet lots

of men where there's lots of men and she

gets particularly annoyed when her

friendship group don't want to go to the

places cuz they're all paired off okay

where where they don't want to go to to

an envir where there's lots of men does

it matter you talk about this in chapter

4 the importance of the sex ratio yes

yeah does it matter so sex ratio is huge

the best example of sex ratio is look at

what's happening in the Farmland so

country areas of

China where you had the basically the

one child policy where you see a heavy

number of men so the sex ratio is the

number of uh women to men right and so

you look look at the number of men

there's many more men than there are

women in in in China especially in the

farm area of China so what what does

that mean what that means is that women

now have more negotiation power with the

men if you go back 40 years you'd have

to be buried off by 18 17 16 in some of

those areas you would have no say as to

who you could now I literally just read

an article where you have 30 plus year

old women going into those areas saying

we choose whoever we want out here you

know we can do whatever we want you have

more negotiation power but that also

impacts the relationships that then do

form for example look at most University

campuses that now have majority women at

the University campuses what's happening

in terms of sex at the

campuses off the charts why because you

have a small pool of men who say you

know what we now have negotiation power

there there there's few of us there's

all these women out here and and and

what's what's happening is the women are

looking at the small pool of men and

saying okay we only have access to these

guys the guys know okay we have access

to all of these women so therefore we're

going to act a fool you know and what

ends up happening is you end you end up

seeing how

relationships change the formation

changes based on sex ratio so looking at

some of these macroecon omic you can see

how it does impact how a relationship is

formed and then what happens in the

relationship there's some environments

that are and there's some professions

that are typically dominated by one

gender typically for whatever reason in

the book you talk about like engineering

degree courses yes so if I was a woman

and I would say I was just you know I

was 20 years old and I was desperate to

find a man going into a engineering

degree course would put Leverage on my

side yes it's just something to think

about you know people choosing jobs and

environments to work in if they are

really trying to expose themselves to a

gender balance that's in their favor

we're talking about heterosexual

heterosexual couples here then that is

something to consider it it is but even

that point is controversial right

because that point that you just

mentioned which I endorse by the way

then I'll cut it

out it's all controversial no but but

the reason why I say that point is

controversial but I love it is because

what you're saying is you're saying hey

young lady you're going off you're

thinking about your career also start

thinking about your long-term partner at

the same time I I feel as if a large

narrative that's placed on us in Western

Society is knock out the education and

the career get all of that taken care of

then once you have all of that wrapped

up nicely now you could focus on these

other things in life I have sat at the

deathbed of two people in my life I will

never forget these moments ever what

they did is they both said the same

things these were you know two different

people different times they both died

within 24 hours of me seeing them they

said this thing life it goes by fast

goes by fast the second thing is they

begin recounting the the intimate

relationships that they had with all of

their with with their loved ones you

know they're they're they're

recollecting this now there's other

things that they'll talk about certain

regrets wanting to be happier wanting to

have done certain things but ultimately

it's about I remember the good times

with the people I love the most so

what's interesting to me about that is

there's no talk about their career

there's no talk about what they

accomplished professionally there's no

talk about

what they learned in school so does that

then mean that the most important facets

of our life are the relationships that

we form I I would say yes and then if

that's the case why don't we focus on

those things earlier let's focus on that

that's the reason why I love that

statement because yes you know I my my

sons are 10 and 13 already I'm like look

let's talk about your partners let's

talk about how you're going to go about

doing this because ultimately that will

be the most important decision that you

make in life so let's talk about kids

and dating them we talked about Boomers

a little bit there's this word in your

book pronounced

hyper gamey yeah hypergamy that's

exactly what I

said hyam

hypergamy seeking partners of higher

Social Status is notable in online

dating what is what is hyper game me

yeah yeah yeah and and I want to talk

about genz because you said a statement

at the start of this conversation about

them being the most successful in

marriages in your full costing yes yes

okay so all right hypergamy is a topic

that gets a lot of push back but it is

what it is we

can't we we cannot um disagree with all

of the data and what the and what that

suggests is essentially someone who is

Seeking a partner of equal or greater

resources men and women well it's it's

it's it's it's always categorized as

heterosexual women okay

seeking a heterosexual man of equal or

greater resources and the data that

typically people point to is when they

look at um degrees college degrees and

they look at women in in in online

dating so they say okay let's look at um

women in online dating across different

dating apps and we'll look at all of

those with a college degree who is it

that they typically swipe right on or

who is it that they typically select and

on average it's men who have at least a

college degree or greater master's

degree right and the

whole push back that I think ends up

happening is you see people say well

there it is right there these women are

all opportunists that's what they're

looking for they're looking for

opportunity and I say oh hold on for a

second do you realize first that for

hundreds of thousands of years this was

the structure this was the only

structure you needed we've talked about

it you must have chosen if you a woman

you must have chosen a partner that had

equal or greater resources if you wanted

to

survive to next week so why is it still

here or next year well you know why

because the patriarchy has not been

destroyed it it is it has not been

destabilized it's because modern

relationships these relationships around

self-expression just started in

1960 I mean I I think it's it is

fascinating to think that women just

began to have choice and remember we're

talking about these weird Western IND

educated industrialized right Rich

democratic nations have just begun to

have a bit of choice you know what I

mean a bit of choice just now so

therefore we're living in a day and age

where you you can't you you can't argue

against this you know you you when I say

you can't argue against it is is you

have to understand why that is but the

reason why I say I believe that gen Z

will have the strongest marriages is I

also think they'll have the fewest

marriages of any

generation

marriage is without question on the

decline without question you can't argue

cannot argue it's on the decline but

what we're going to see is we're going

to see a small percentage of people who

decide to join in Union in what we're

today calling marriage and they will

have exceptionally strong marriages

because they'll have consciously chosen

to go into this Union they'll have the

tools and they'll help each other to you

know to to self-evolve so and less kids

they'll have less kids yeah are you

concerned about that the sort of decline

of people having kids I'm I'm quite

aware of of of some of this data right

and this replacement rate this rate of

us not having enough children to meet

the replacement rate which I think on

average is typically like 2.1 right so

you think that in the United States or

in the UK in Japan where I know this is

this is hitting heavy uh really all

throughout most of the world but I want

to get to where it's not happening but

through most of the world what you have

is you have people not having enough

children to meet the replacement rate

what's the replacement rate so that is

the number of new births that need to

happen in order to replace the Aging

dying population ah okay so typically

it's it's like it's 2.1 right uh but

we're not couples are getting together

they're having 1.8 you know or one or

one or whatever it may be

now what that means is it means

precisely what you said and that is is

that we will have an older population

and as a result of having an older

population we won't be able to do all

the things that we need for that older

population think about the tax base

who's going to support the older

population in terms of monetary

resources physically who's going to be

in the nursing homes to support an older

population or who's going to be at home

or and so the

underpopulation is I believe it is a

real issue however it gets very

political and the reason why I think it

gets political and I've seen uh have you

heard of uh Neo natalism no in natalism

right was that uh so it is when you

begin to look at

underpopulation based on nationality or

ethnicity and when you you begin to look

deeper you say hold on for a second the