you know when people talk about work

life balance what's your honest opinion

of that Kobe Bryant wasn't doing three

throws at 3:00 a.m. for no reason but

there's a cost to that right George

heeden the founder of global fashion

brand represent warn by the weekend post

Malone Justin Bieber one of the most

popular Luxury Street brands in the

world when I was 18 starting this brand

it was just me and my brother in my

dad's shed figuring out products and

where we could take the brand but then

we went from doing 10 15 sales to like a

th000 every day of the week 2,000 3,000

4,000 we were making money at that time

more than what we should have in our

early 20s so we're [ __ ] around a lot

alcohol girls cars and we're doing like

35 million revenue and was like we're

going to do 50 million next year but we

we don't know what we're doing now the

business is doing about $100 million

that's when the realization came that

you don't need to be good at business to

own a business there's people that are

so much better at things than you they

can lay the foundations for it to become

a billion dollar band and you can focus

on what you're actually good at that was

a car list that just changed everything

we're building this there's no seing to

what it can be that was until we got a

letter

from that was the worst day in the

business it was rock bottom but the best

view of Heaven is from hell right you've

got to get to the bottom of that

mountain to start re climbing it it

became this driving force that I thought

who cannot stop that and then what

happens it's absolutely crazy to me that

so many of you have decided to watch our

show um and so many of you have decided

to subscribe to our show we now have

five million subscribers on YouTube

which is a number that I just can't

comprehend and it's a dream that I

absolutely never could have had we

started the dire of a just over 3 years

ago now and in my wildest expectations

we might have had 100,000 subscribers by

now so you can imagine how shocked I am

that so many of you have chosen to tune

into these conversations every week um

and spend some time with us so thank you

and I made a deal with you I made a deal

that if you subscribed to this show that

we would continue to raise the bar and

in

2024 we're going to raise the BARC never

before I've been working for the last

nine months on a surprise for all of you

that have subscribed to the show and I'm

very excited to deliver that for you the

production's going to change we're going

to go even further with our guests and

we're going to tell even more Global

stories so as always if you appreciate

what we're doing here the simple free

favorite I'll ask for you is to hit the

Subscribe button let's get on with the

[Music]

episode

George what is the mission that you're

on it's just to be the best version of

myself really just to show up and do

everything at the highest level I can

what influence did your parents have

because I I've heard you talk about your

mother and your father a lot but let's

start with your father what kind of

influence did he have on you I guess

when I was growing up he had he had a

bit more than what everyone else had in

my town so like he had a Range Rover and

he dropped me off to school in that

Range Rover and all the kids felt that

was sick so automatically I felt proud

of that so I was like I want to be like

this like what is it that my dad's got

that other people don't have um and the

way he showed up with my family and how

he would he wouldn't like I I've never

seen him drunk even to this day I've

never seen him drunk like he was a role

model is like a this stoic guy that

would just work hard show up drop his

kids off at school come to football

training every single night like he

would be there for me and I think that

was just like even though it was never

spoke about in the household it just

like created my own discipline I guess

was he an emotional man no no no emotion

I've never seen him cry has he ever said

I love

you to me I don't know maybe as a young

kid but not not recently now what about

your mom very supportive she used to sit

on the end of my bed every night and be

like George you got to make it you got

to carry your brother and sister like

you've got you've got to carry this

family on which was quite a hard thing

to take in when I was young um but she

just like affirmed that every single day

and like she loved the work I did and

the art that I did and she would try and

express that to all her friends and talk

about me a lot and it was always like

something that was kind

of um it kind of pushed me a bit you

know gave gave me like words of words of

affirmation I guess confidence was that

was her saying that like a frequent

thing I'm just trying to figure out why

she would say that to you versus your

siblings is presumably because you're

you're the oldest no I was a middle

child brother's old um but Mike kind

of he was very within himself as as as a

younger kid and um didn't come out much

and he just did his own thing whereas I

would express myself a little bit more

than him in within the family and I

think my mom saw that as a way that I

could be the the carrier of whatever

that boat was later down in life and

your parents what did they do so your

dad was my dad sold mini buses so him

and his his dad were in business so that

was kind of like me and my brother and

like me and my brother they looked the

same they did the same thing like had

the same demeanor same attitude to

everything and I think that's why me and

my brother went into business cuz we saw

that the family had been able to do that

um prior did you have any idea when you

were a young man like 12 13 14 that you

would be in this

industry yeah I did to be fair looking

back at it I I had sensitive skin as a

kid and anything that fit me wrong or

like itched me or like like a back neck

label or the way a pant fit would

irritate me so much that I'd take it to

my Grands and she was a tailor so she

would taper things and take necks out of

things and she would make sure I knew

what the composition was before buying

garments and when I look back at it now

I realized that that being that

particular so young kind of stemmed into

how I've built the brand and what it

stands for and the quality and

everything like that and Michael I met

Michael before when the first time we

had you on the podcast I think you had

eight employees and Michael was there as

well yeah and he comes across as a bit

of a genius but a bit of a introverted

genius what was the difference in your

skill set cuz you both went and studied

like art well graphic design what was

the difference in your skill set there

wasn't really one he was just better

than me okay better than me at Art

definitely and cuz he was my big brother

I looked up to him so like through

Primary School like he was into like

heavy metal and rock and like California

and surf and skate and that wasn't

really a particular thing in Bolton like

everyone was in tracksuits and had

shaped heads and tiens and smoked on the

corner we were skating down these cobbly

roads with long hair and like big DC

shoes on and skinny jeans and I I just

wanted to be him like until like early

20s like he was he was my idol really

and when did um when did you make the

decision to apply your artistic skills

to clothing college so we had a project

where we had to make we had to make

something of our art that could sell and

Mike had Mike was two years ahead of me

so he'd already done the same course I

was on and he'd done like a little

Gallery where people would buy his

drawings and I looked at that and I

looked at my dad and my dad wanted us to

come into the business at the time and

the last thing I wanted to do was that

but also I didn't want to sit and wait

around all my life to sell a painting

for 40 grand um and I remember going

into the class and I remember the

teacher telling me that average salary

of a graphic designer was 30k and I'd go

home and I'd speak to my dad I'd be like

hold on if University is going to cost

me 9k a year and the average salary is

40k a year and like I can't [ __ ] buy

myself a Range Rover with that

and I wanted to be like my dad so I was

like what what is it that I can make

that I can make money from like everyone

wants to be successful right there's no

denying that like money was such a big

thing back then that I wanted and I was

so particular about the clothing like I

said about my grand and taking things in

and how we'd adjust all my garments that

there was this there was this like

upbringing of social media Instagram was

just starting and YouTube was just

starting and I I I managed to watch a

few videos of like artists like shepher

Ferry who owned o and Nikki diamonds who

own Diamond Supply and huff and these

guys over here on the West Coast that

were just selling like t-shirts with

graphics on and I thought why can't we

do we be the British version of that

what have we got to do to do that and

this college project came up and I just

thought I'll give it a go you know a

second ago you said being a graphic

designer wasn't going to allow you to

buy the same car as your dad was how

much was your dad a driving force behind

your sort of with

um your decision- making and like when I

say that like was there really a

motivation to try and beat him or at

least get to where he was yeah

definitely definitely and a very

conscious motivation

yeah and because you thought that make

him proud or make yourself proud yeah I

thought it'd make the family proud but

as well it was just like no one thought

in my family that or even through my

friends or through my mom and dad's

friends whoever was around us no one

thought that we'd ever be anything no

one thought that like our art could s

and we could make money that way and we

could build careers that way everyone

always expected us especially my grand

just expected us to go into the family

business having listened to some of your

interviews and stuff and gotten to know

you it does feel like there's a bit of a

chip on your shoulder and I'm not

necessarily sure who the chip on your

shoulder has come from I think a lot of

it self-inflicted I think I just like to

have something there to prove something

wrong or something right maybe Pro

myself right comes at a cost though it

does come at a cost yeah but I'm willing

to take that cost on are you sure yeah

I've I've been doing it now for 13 years

I'm not going to stop anytime soon and

like I only feel now that we're just

getting started with it so I'm really

curious about this early phase which I

kind of call the shedding phase where an

entrepreneur makes the decision that

they're going to do something unusual in

the context of their like current social

group and the shedding phase I Define as

like when your family start thinking

you're a bit weird and you feel the

resistance from your family and then

you're like boys from school start

thinking you think you're Richard

Branson or whatever and they start

making little comments can you recount

what your shedding facee was like I

think that was it I think like a lot of

people who was around just laughed at it

a lot of people just thought it was a

joke and it got to that stage where then

it was like oh it's your dad's business

your dad's your dad buys the stock and

like like this is a family business you

guys aren't making this money and

whatever until it gets to a point where

it like just completely exceeds what

people think that is and then they seem

to come back around and then they buying

your product and then they're

congratulating you on the drops and then

they're your biggest fans do you

remember any comments that you heard oh

from C people yeah definitely I remember

there was one where I'd bought this R8

and it was I must have been 19 or 20

which is a car right right yeah and an

Audi and um I it packed up in in my town

where I was and I remember getting a

message on Facebook

saying that car your dad's bought you is

packed up here he's going to get a

ticket on them yellow lines and I was

thinking like come on how did it make

you feel it made me want to go to the

next level with everything over and over

to so it drown out that noise so it was

like okay maybe his dad was

successful running a a small business

had a a nice house and whatever I wanted

to take that to like a hundred times

that to prove that it wasn't that I

guess and so after you leave College

well it's during college right when you

sort of start the business MH is that

2012 yeah when you first started the

business and then Michael joins you a

year later after you started selling

T-shirts yeah he was doing a bit of the

graphics here and there and um I would

run them to the Run orders to the post

office and then at night would sit and

draw together and then I'd speak to

suppliers in China and stuff like that

and it just it just rolled on for the

three years that I was at University

what was that first year like that first

year in business uh from what I can

remember it wasn't really business it

was just going to The Back Garden where

my dad shed was speak to some suppliers

in China go to university complete my

whatever it was I was doing there come

back pack orders speak to customers do

it all again every single day for like

the first three years how big was the

business in the first year probably

turned over about 10,000 pounds yeah

what about the second year

um maybe like 50k I think the third year

is when we decided to actually make it a

limited company and get an accountant

and how much did you do in the third

year roughly in terms of Revenue I can't

remember I think it was around half a

mill okay because I remember going to

the accountants and we we did all this

um we literally like T the business

apart and rebuilt it and he said to us

at the end of this thing like if you've

got 100 Grand in the bank you should

carry on with it if not you've spent

three years just like doing nothing and

it's going nowhere and uh luckily we had

way more than that in the bank and it's

was like okay let's let's do this for

real you spent two years you know and by

the end of the second year you're

generating 50k which is like not enough

really to pay yourself a salary whilst

covering costs of the business no I

didn't take a salary for seven or eight

years so surely that Point people around

you are telling you that you're an idiot

and they've got quite good evidence yeah

to suggest that you're actually wasting

your time but I I never had never had a

big doubt that it wouldn't work I've had

a lot of doubts but never had a doubt

that it wouldn't work and I knew that I

would do everything I could to make sure

it worked what did work how would you

define worked at that that moment like

what was success at that moment success

was putting products online and it

selling and seeing that launch night and

seeing 500 people log in and buy

something or a thousand people and

seeing that incremental gain over time

that was what was like the driving force

more people following the brand more

people sending DMS that that was it

really why don't people start and I say

that BEC You Know in hindsight now

you're going to understand looking back

at your own work the quality of it what

you went through and you probably have a

pretty good idea on why people just

don't start you must have get so many

DMS from people that have an idea or

fashion idea or anything why don't they

start I think it's that pressure of

failure the the feeling of Doubt

like and as well wasting time if they've

got a family or they've got a job where

it's full-time then to start something

else on the side when they've got to see

to the family or the girlfriend or the

wife or whatever it is like you don't

have much time to go and do something

else that you then hope will eventually

in the future take off or become

successful and it takes so long like it

does take I know it's a lot of people

say takes 10 years to become an overan

night success and I think that's true

you you spent almost four years um from

2012 till I guess no two years 2012 till

about 2015 is kind of just effectively

messing around yeah messing around

really messing around a lot of messing

around learning learning yeah is

probably a better better use of words

and enjoying it as well like me and my

friends had sit in my dad's shed like

all night just figuring out products and

things that we wanted to do and where we

could take the brand and I'd love to go

back to them times cuz they were great

and we had nothing and no one was really

watching us but we thought everyone was

watching us and we thought it was the

next big [ __ ] Powerhouse of a

brand um so yeah it was it was fun like

I don't regret any of it you know what

putting these two questions together

about like why people don't start and

also those three years where you weren't

really making any any money yeah um and

you in the shed in your GR in your dad's

house

why didn't you quit because as I said a

second ago there must have been so much

force telling you to go and get a real

job yeah but why didn't you quit I think

it just leads back to again proving

people wrong and proving myself right

and like the only other option I had was

to go and work for my dad and I didn't

want to do that because I'd done that

all my teens and I hated it I hated

cleaning mini buses and ripping stickers

off the sides of Windows and going to

auctions and bidding on cars and stuff

like that wasn't me and that was the

only other option I had so it was like

this is it it's all all or nothing

really when you look back at the uh

products that you made in that shed how

do you feel about them there was a few

great ones and a few absolutely terrible

ones I remember the first collection I

moved to China because originally I

would buy stocking from America print it

in the UK and like make zero profit on

it but it was great and it felt great

and then eventually we decided like

let's try and make some profit on a on a

collection and I remember this

collection coming back after a few

months and like all the fits were wrong

and the Fabrics were wrong and I I just

cried on my mom's floor for like hours

that night um so there was there was a

lot of really rough times as well there

was a lot of fun but it was all just

like figuring out different things and

like learning how to do every single job

within that business because you know if

I'm a young fashion designer or a young

creative and I look at your work now I

look at the product that represents

putting out now it's easy to see how one

might be put off from starting right

because I look at yourself Jesus Christ

like you can't compete with it you can't

compete with that like that's more than

10 years of like Mastery so I'm just not

going to bother starting what what do

you say to those people say look you got

to put the work in it's going to be 10

years like regardless of what industry

it is or what product you're making like

I wouldn't even think about the next two

to three years I'd think about 10 years

like that's the mindset you've got to

have and and it's not going to be easy

and it's not going to be fun but you

just got to do everything you can to

make it work so the brand kind of scales

up

to what sort of Revenue number from 2012

up to 2018 we built it up to like 6 to 7

mil MH so like 2015 16 17 it was just

flat like 6 7 mil year over year yeah

and we thought that was a ceiling in for

at the at the time as our young s we not

knowledge and no real thought in the

industry like we thought that we were at

the ceiling of what represent was and

then that's when the realization came

that like if we carry on doing what

we're doing it's not going to

work and this brand will fail what was

the advice you needed at that point that

you didn't get um I definitely didn't

get the advice but it was to just

completely restart refocus go again

build a new team and and and go into

what we already knew that was there

waiting for us we knew what we were

capable of we just weren't doing it what

weren't you doing focusing on our

consumer asking them what they wanted

speaking to them being within the

community of what represent was and

giving them what they wanted when you

say the the point about team MH um you

said rebuild a new team when you started

the brand who did who were you hiring

all my

friends I hired all my friends all my

close friends cuz I wanted to enjoy it

and I didn't know think about hiring

people I didn't want to interview people

and bring them into my dad's garden shed

so up until we had a unit like it was

just me and my friends and we were all

just doing 50 jobs each no one had a

title no one knew what was going on um

and it didn't work but now we're at such

a level where there's a hundred people

in the business two of those friends

that came in right at the start are

still in the business and a very high up

in the business and have amazing

successful lives so half worked and half

didn't when you say it didn't work what

does that mean in reality it means that

like we I guess it's all not my fault as

such but it's all

it's I I brought people into the brand

that shouldn't have been in fashion or

shouldn't have been doing what I'd asked

them to do or like their career didn't

go the the way that it should have gone

because we were just just Plateau at

this base of

like a a quite a boring fashion brand at

the time and like did we had to split up

and we had to regroup and start again

and the ones that stayed have now stayed

forever which is insane and the ones

that left they've have' carried on with

their lives what have you learned about

um hiring again when I say the advice

that you you wish you'd gotten at the

time before you'd hired a single person

that you might give if you could speak

to George at 18 years old and you could

give hiring advice on how to pick people

what would you say hire Fast Fire faster

interesting I spent a lot of years

where I didn't hire people because I

didn't think they would fit into the

brand and even though they don't seem a

certain way or they're into the same

brands that I'm into or they follow this

kind of um industry that we're in

whether it's streetware or luxury or

high fashioned like there is still

unbelievable people that can do amazing

things way better than what can do in

all levels of business that don't look

like they should be or don't seem like

they would um so just like realizing

that back back then would have really

helped the business

grow I think sometimes like young

Founders um I remember just thinking

back on my own experience we're

sometimes scared to hire people that are

like more experienced than we are

because how are we going to manage them

and all those kind of concerns and also

why would they want to come here you

know why would they want to come here

was a massive thing for me really yeah

why would want why would someone want to

come to a smaller brand than what they

were at um and especially in that time

when it wasn't growing cuz it's not you

don't want to go into a company that's

not growing but like now it's completely

different the the whole ecosystem that

we've built and who wants to come into

the brand and like the way the brand is

growing it's now like we have the

abundance of everyone wanting to join

the brand so it's it's it's now like

it's hard to pick and choose who we

bring into the brand rather than going

out there and looking for them and

trying to get them into brand you know

what I mean mhm it's so like Catch 22

you know I have a lot of dragon Den

Investments and these are typically

early stage companies that often quite

young and I sit with them all the time

and I I talk to them about this Paradox

of um there it's some kind of

multifaceted thing they are a very young

team very inexperienced they have small

budgets relatively small budgets so

they're thinking we can't pay an

exceptional really experienced person

because £1,000 salary is so much for us

and because they don't and also the

stuff you said about like why would

anyone want to come work in this like

shed right because of that they never

grow to be able to pay for those people

to be able to create an environment

where exceptional people would come

right so the only way like I see of

kickstarting the process is to bring in

exceptional people now um yeah that

makes sense pay for it now and you'll

see the increased outcome later

definitely yeah yeah like bringing in

exceptional people will never be a bad

thing in the business but it feels like

it because they they because it costs so

much so much yeah yeah but you're also

going to learn so much from them just

especially if you're a small team and

you're bringing in people that have been

in there for 10 years and done what

you're trying to do like the in the

information and the value that they

provide just to open your mind up to

what's actually possible can get you to

the next level like I've brought a CEO

into represent that was handling a $500

million business for him to come into my

business that at the time it was only

doing 20 mil and to tell me what's

possible and run me through different

geographies and how products can have a

lifetime and how you can maintain a

constant like steady sale of one product

for so many years when I we were just

thinking that you put something online

let it sell out and then you move on to

the next thing and there's so many

different like factors that can come in

and different areas of growth and sales

and categories and all these different

things that just make you realize oh you

can turn the business from 20 to 50 mil

by just doing

this but you would never know that if

you were just in your little group of

people that you've grown up with and

done it with forever and you don't even

know that you don't know it like it's an

unknown know no because there's no one

teaching you and I and that's why I'm

trying to do this YouTube channel and

trying to be so expressive but also um

like authentic on the YouTube and on

Instagram by telling people this and

showing them how what we actually do and

how we do it because when I was 18

starting this brand I had nowhere to

look I had no mentors I there was no one

in fashion that would wanted to come and

help us and there's nothing like that I

could just go online and find and and

buying a course to build a brand isn't

going to work that's that's the biggest

load of [ __ ] ever um so like you're

stuck in your own in your own ways and

you you've got limited

beliefs and you don't know what you

don't know so how you how again if you

could like go back cuz there's so many

young kids that are going to be looking

up to you thinking okay George I get it

there's lots of things that I don't know

where do I go to find the answers what's

the best way to go to find these answers

that are going to help me go to the next

level I think you got to research now I

think everyone's very explicitly

authentic online like if they want to be

the next George Heaton you can scroll

down my Instagram for the last 10 years

and see exactly what I've done and where

I've been and how I've done it who we've

done it with or you can go on the

YouTube channel and backload a

documentary that we did three years ago

that shows the last 10 years and then

now you do it with um the diary of the

SE behind behind the scenes as well so

the people are willing as well to like

give you advice I give people advice on

social media all the time but that

decision then to bring in that

CEO where did that information come from

I spent a good couple years just really

like rebuilding myself when that when

that Plateau happened um there was like

18 months to two years where it was just

before Co started and I wanted to just

like really build myself up into someone

that I wasn't at that time but I wanted

to be why what was going on in your

world I I felt like I was stuck and like

like I said we we had limited beliefs we

didn't know where to go and what to do

it's like how do I then figure that out

if I'm not got a mentor or someone

telling me which way to go with it I've

got to do it myself so it was like read

every single self- health book look into

every single fashion show figure out

like what it is we want to do and where

we want to go with this brand and how

we're going to build it up but also with

ourselves was this the period in 2018

where you said you lost the motivation

for the business yeah just before that

take me into that period of your life if

I'm a if I'm a fly on the wall what do I

see in in your world at that time where

you're like not excited about it not

excited about it because we were getting

a lot of push back from press and like

we were trying to do runway shows and

no stores wanted to buy us and our price

points weren't right and the way we were

taking the design wasn't right and that

was like painful because it was a

passion for us it was our love so like

that negative feedback was like kind of

painful at the time but we used it as

like a reset button and I looked at

myself as well at the same time and like

I wasn't putting everything into the

brand I wasn't going like full on with

it I was messing around and like

enjoying in my life as well cuz we were

making money at that time like more than

what we should have been doing in our

early 20s so we're [ __ ] around a lot

and I'm not going to sit here and lie

like we would we didn't know what we

were doing we were messing around and it

just got to a point where like that year

became unprofitable and for me to sit

there and think [ __ ] like I've done this

for the past seven or eight years and

now it's not making money that was like

that was the thing that then just that

was a car list that just changed

everything I just took a real good hard

look at what we are and who we were and

just changed it all what about you on on

a personal level at that at that time

you said you weren't happy with yourself

didn't why I hated the way I looked I

hated the way I came across on social

media I was very shy very

unconfident

um like terrible at hiring people and

just didn't like had not anger issues

but was always angry was always negative

always had like this pessimistic view of

everything

even the weather had pissed me

off um for a for a long time and I just

remember reading a few books and

thinking like why am I this way and how

do I change myself I even and like being

the artist I even redrew how I wanted to

look and it was like every single day

now I've got to work on being that guy

who is who is George Heaton that I want

him to be not who I am now you actually

Drew yeah yeah an a picture yeah I used

to look back at it all the time and just

think this this this is I wanted to

recreate myself and recreate the brand

what was the base you were starting from

at that point and how old were you at

this point 20 six I think I was 25 26 I

just like had a had a unhealthy

relationship with the way I worked and

even the food I at and like I wasn't I

wasn't healthy I wasn't doing well

didn't look great like didn't didn't

feel myself I didn't want to look at

myself in the mirror um you didn't want

to look at yourself in the mirror yeah

because I didn't like who I'd become and

like the I didn't like what the brand

had become either and the brand was my

life so it was like this all needs to

change when you say you didn't want to

look at yourself in the mirror do you

actually mean that or you saying that as

like a figure of speech I guess a figure

of speech but as well like realizing

that that I wanted to change a lot so

then when when you do want to change

then you don't like the way you are how

how did you know you wanted to change I

me that sounds like an like a slightly

peculiar question but I always think

about what it takes for someone to have

one of those moments in their life where

they go you know what enough is enough

yeah and sometimes I've always like

pondered I think I've said it a few

times on the show like do people have to

reach a certain Rock Bottom in their

lives before they go you know what 100%

And I see this with people now that um

we Inspire with 247 or who will send me

a DM and say look you've changed my life

through this or that the I think the

like the best view of Heaven is from

hell right I think you've got to get to

the bottom of that mountain to start re

climbing it I think if you just sit

around in the middle somewhere and and

life's just is what it is that was what

I was going through um and like I had a

girlfriend and we'd split up and that

was terrible and yeah the brand wasn't

doing well I got told it was

unprofitable and like I was just in this

[ __ ] what for me was rock bottom and

I know it doesn't sound bad compared to

a lot of other people's lives I

understand that but for me for where I'd

been on the trajectory that I thought I

was on it was Rock Bottom so was that

was like the reset so you drew a picture

of yourself and how you wanted to look

did you write anything about who you

wanted to be in terms of values or yeah

I've got a best friend who's done a very

similar transformation and they

literally wrote down like a set of

principles and it's it's in the notes of

their phone it's my friend Anthony and

he went from being in a place in his

life where he also figuratively couldn't

look himself in the mirror dropped

alcohol hit the gym and has turned it

around and he he has almost has this

like Ten Commandments in the notes of

his phone yeah you did something similar

exactly the same and still have them

that pop up every morning like reminders

on my phone um I found this guy called

Andy fitell and he had a book

called um 75 hard and it was like a

mental toughness challenge but it also

included a lot of working out in there

and it was like no alcohol drink this

much water read this much of a book and

just do it every single day for 75 days

write down five things you're going to

do that day and I did that and I started

doing it and I started seeing like these

crazy results in my life just with

everything just the way I could

structure my day and knowing that like I

had to put two workouts into a day one

had to be outside wanted to be inside so

structure the rest of the day around

that and then started learning how to

plan my day out better and where the

time was where I could go and do these

other things and like every night I

would read 10 pages of a book whichever

book that was

from all the ran holiday books and

Robert Green and everything like that so

I was learning all these things whilst I

was also doing this mental toughness

Challenge and it was like a 75 day thing

and I remember getting to getting to the

end of it and just thinking [ __ ] like

I'm I looked at myself then and I was

like okay I can see the change and you

know when you can see change that's when

you like really go into it you start

getting obsessed when you see whether

it's success or like your Fitness levels

go up or just the way you energy levels

are every day and just figuring out that

like these little indicators are

changing the way I'm and then at the

same time we were really working on the

business so the business was starting to

see a bit more success and that whole

thing the Cadence of that just kept

rolling and rolling and rolling and I

guess whether it's Obsession or

addiction I got addicted to it and like

there couldn't be a day go by where I

wouldn't work out or I wouldn't eat the

exact calories that I needed to eat or I

wouldn't sleep the exact like and I

needed to get the exact amount of sleep

that I wanted and it just completely

changed like the way I looked and the

like my my levels of fitness and

cardiovascular and strength and

everything like that I just went through

the roof cuz people will look at you now

and think that you know they'll see you

getting up at I don't know 5:00 a.m. in

the morning and going for like a 20 mile

run um and hit in the gym later that

evening running a business doing all

these things being super productive and

they'll probably think he was just born

with something that I don't have right

like he's just got this level of

motivation probably came in his DNA that

I don't have yeah and a lot of people do

say that a lot of people think that

think it's genetics or they think it's

steroids and stuff like that or they'll

just think that you're like wired in a

way from birth I used to think that as

well back when I was overweight and

unhealthy and like I'd look at people on

Instagram be like yep genetics whatever

yep he's on steroids I can't look like

that I've got a business to run like you

would you dismiss everything but it's

not and once you start doing it yourself

and you see those little gains and you

you get into it you you can really

change what is the starting point one

step at a time whether it's 10,000 steps

or doing even a 20 minute workout that's

all people need to do to

change because you'll start seeing

results regardless of what position

you're in right now if you can just keep

increasing incrementally what you're

doing in terms of Fitness or your

business or however like your sleep

whatever it is that you feel is not

right you'll see the change over time it

comes and it takes a long time takes a

really long time but it it happens it's

difficult to it's difficult to believe I

guess for some people because they they

kind of they see the mountain in front

of them and you're telling them listen

it's just one step at a time up that

mountain but they're just looking at the

top of the mountain going Jesus Christ

that's a long way away and the thought

that the the first steps to take are

small ones doesn't almost doesn't seem

believable yeah and and look same with

me like I would go head on into

something thinking that you could just

go out there and run a marathon within a

week and people do that and it and it it

crushes you and and then you have to

start again but it's just about finding

the rhythm of like what you enjoy and

and just going and just doing it and not

not really taking your foot off the gas

once you start doing it so jumping back

to 2018 then so the business is stagnant

during that period of time and you go on

this process of Reinventing yourself um

you also go on the process of

Reinventing the business yeah what does

that mean how did you reinvent the

business we stripped back all the

wholesale that we we were doing and we

focused on the DTC so we went into this

weekly drop thing and it was just right

it was just before like covid happened

and James who is the chief product

officer was like super keen on moving

our production out to Portugal it was

currently in the UK and Italy and it was

making no money and I had so many

arguments with him about it and like

hated this this way of thinking that he

was doing and like what he wanted to do

with the business and it got to like we

we had a massive heated argument about

it and it was so right for the business

at the time and I just didn't know it

cuz I weren't acceptance AC accepting of

like changing changing the way we were

working and I didn't understand that you

could go and do this other thing

and produce in a different way than what

we were doing and like full credit to

him he completely changed the whole like

margin of what we were doing um so James

was doing that for like nine months

straight and Mike was doing all these

new graphics that was going to change

the way the brand looked and then I I

came out to LA a few times and Bone

these t-shirts that I really loved and

these cargo pants that I loved and then

we started putting all these three

things together through through all of

us and then I have a guy called Stefan

who was doing all the Website

Maintenance and everything like that and

we changed the way the website looked

and the whole vision of the brand and we

deleted everything off social media and

just like restarted and it just it

started working and we put like 300

t-shirts online and we sold 300 in a

minute and then the next week Mike did

another design and we sold 600 in a

minute and then 900 in a minute and then

it was like [ __ ] we actually do have a

following here we've gone from

doing 10 15 sales through the day to

like a thousand every single Wednesday

2,000 3,000

4,000 and that gave us like the the

liquid and also the confidence to then

go and create more Collections and go

back to becoming a real brand again as

you were saying that made me think about

how so many people aren't successful in

their lives or aren't as successful as

they could possibly be

because they haven't gotten out of their

own way and that was me a million times

over and just like having that open

mindedness and listening to other people

and knowing that it's not you're not

right with everything is such a [ __ ]

huge thing it's difficult when you I

think especially if you're a young CEO

because you're probably already a bit

insecure right yeah 100% yeah um like

you feel like you should know everything

so you're like overcompensating by but

then as well like the business was

growing so much that I would have only

just restricted it if I would have

stayed in that CEO position even though

I was learning a lot and listening a lot

to a lot of things and we had to bring

people in because we were like busting

at the seams didn't have enough staff

and like the revenue was going crazy and

we didn't know what to do with ourselves

we're all running around like headless

chicken there's only like 20 people in

the business and we were doing like 30

35 million revenue and it was like [ __ ]

how what are we going to do we're going

to do 50 million next year but we we

don't know what we're doing just like so

silly but yeah

you I'm going to say from the outside it

looks like you you had it all together

of course it does yeah for the whole 13

years it kind of looks like that um and

it still looks like that now and we

definitely don't have it all together

but we I do have an amazing like

leadership team and everyone in the

business is like so bought into it now

and like now there's like a mission

statement and some fundamentals behind

the business and everyone's everyone's

really on the mission with me and like

they they [ __ ] live for it and love

it and like we die for it you've you've

created a pretty amazing um company

culture you were talking about it there

yeah how have you done that that's it's

not really I'm not going to sit here and

take credit for that um I'll take credit

for like the gym that we have in there

and and the way we like everyone works

hard but also like my the CEO that came

in Spenny just he's all about people

people over a profit every day of the

week whatever it is it's people first so

we have such a good like group of

like the leadership theme he's brought

in and like everyone who's involved with

the business now it's just constant like

transparency and here's where we go

here's what we're doing here's what's

wrong here's what's right we need to

focus more on this we need to do more of

this and just giving them everything

that they they want and like even though

it's yeah you got to work hard you got

to work [ __ ] hard we're still like

we're probably the best place to work

for that I know of self-awareness I amum

I've spoken to a lot of Founders that

have been very very successful

especially out of Europe and one of the

things that they all seem to have in

common is at some point in their Journey

they developed such a high

self-awareness that as we kind of said

they got out of the way of the business

and just focused on the thing that

they're good

at and that's pretty much what it looks

like you're doing now yeah and I hope

that's right and I've seen people do

that and get it wrong but for me I think

it is right I'm not a businessman and

like for me to be the CEO of this

business it's growing rapidly and has

all these people involved with it like

all I would do is stump the growth of it

um so like you said earlier today like

there's people that are so much better

at things than you and if you can bring

them into your business they can they

can get on with that stuff and do 10

times better job than you can and lay

the foundations for it to become 500

million or a billion dollar brand or 10

billion dollar brand and you can focus

on what you're actually good at how did

you get them to come I think like you

said then like company culture like

you see if you see represent on LinkedIn

or something you're going to look at it

and think [ __ ] I want to be in there

these guys and girls are getting after

it like doing gym sessions together at

6:00 a.m. and they're all out and they

just they're just enjoying the workplace

like but that that comes from being

being a successful brand you can't just

do that from the get-go can't just build

a gym with no money right so you've got

to build that level of success and then

you're able to reinvest into the brand

rather than into your stock and and

building the actual size of the company

because this is always the issue that I

hear specifically like young Founders or

early stage entrepreneurs talking about

is okay Steve I get it I know we need

great people but how do I persuade great

people like Spencer it's Spenny right

Paul Spencer yeah Paul Spencer um how do

I get him to come work here right when

he's working at like Puma he was at Puma

wasn't he yeah he was you get how did

you get him to come from Puma to

represent built a relationship with him

over many years James was in contact

with him for 5 years since we first met

and then as the business scaled he saw

what we had like he saw what me and Mike

had together as brothers and he saw what

me Mike James and Steph had as like a

leadership team and he wanted to be

involved with it because he knows that

there's no other options for us it was

like we we're building this there's no

ceiling like what is what is

representing 10 years like what can it

be and he says it every day is like

gives me [ __ ] Goosebumps walking in

here because there's no there's no limit

to it like can do everything if we can

spell sell sportsware we can sell

vintage t-shirts and we can

sell we can sell salt like it's insane

we can do anything it's it's not really

a brand anymore it's like a lifestyle of

all the business decisions that you've

made where does hiring a CEO to run the

business and you stepping out of the way

rank number one really

yeah my life's just so much better now

that he's involved with the business and

there's a lot of way taken off my

shoulders it's not the first time I've

heard this I think Ben Francis would

have said the same yeah I bet you know

in julan at hu said the same and that

putting someone in in that CEO role

where it's both like not enjoyable for

you as a creative but also it's not good

for the business because it's not your

skill set and and that yeah it wasn't

enjoyable for a for a long time and you

do it because you had to do it and if I

spent 6 hours in that role of a CEO to

then come out of my room and be like

Mike let's go and Design This thing you

didn't want to do it there's no energy

that [ __ ] drains your if you're a

creative the business side of the thing

drains your energy it absolutely kills

you even to this day I'll go into a

board meeting and after 15 minutes I'm

just like oh my God I'm I'm done I'm

asleep but I could sit in Mike's room

and design for 12 hours straight with

him how much as a creative and a

creative founder do you have to stay in

touch with the business side of things

though like you spoke about the

boardroom do you still kind of need to

know what's going on I like to yeah okay

I I love to know as much as I can um but

as well I think you should keep things

away from yourself because it will

inflict you with even if it's like

negative things I think especially if

you're so focused on building this next

collection or whatever it is if you're

hearing negative feedback about some

kind of product that's not working or

something in the business is not working

that affects what you're doing there um

so I think trying to divide them two

things is crucial and I did that with

Mike from the GetGo cuz I knew that like

negativity and um like feedback loops on

things that weren't great wasn't good

for him when he's designing so kind of

kept him just like strictly to design

but obviously we'd give him facts and

figures and numbers and stuff like that

but try and keep him out of it as much

as he can what was your hardest

day oh um I remember we got a letter

from a company also called represent in

Europe telling us

that we we were basically

done and yeah that was that was the

worst day in the business yeah what did

the L say just said like that they owned

the trademark in Europe

and we

were they were just going to take us for

everything we had we couldn't carry on

Trading

they wanted all of your money more than

what we

had and that that like that was in that

same period that 2018 to 20 where we

were just like every day we were waiting

for responses and every day it was like

waking up and thinking [ __ ] like is it

all over today is it all over tomorrow

can we do what we want to do is this

even our business anymore do we even own

what we're doing and like there was

there was only really me Mike and James

that knew about this that was going on

cuz I didn't want to put it out to

anyone didn't want anyone in the

business to know like this was happening

or even my family um and it really

[ __ ] like restricted us with

everything we did every decision we made

every garment we

sold um so that that that was that was

included in that really dark period they

presumably owned the trademark that you

were using so you had called yourself

represent

but someone else owned the trademark for

Europe yeah and you didn't realize that

at the time we thought we owned it um

because we had the UK IP and all over

the rest of the world and there was this

dormant we thought it was dormant but

apparently was selling clothing section

25 or whatever section 25 is like the

clothing category of a trademark right

and at first we thought all right we can

we'll we'll be able to figure this out

let's get some lawyers and we'll go into

it in a certain way and approach it like

this and was just constantly like no no

no like they weren't willing to nothing

and that was like that was the devil

that W you up every

night um but I used that as like I guess

again it's that chip on the shoulder

thing I kind of used it as that and I

realized that like we had to get we had

to do so much and make so much of the

brand that we didn't want to give it up

and that when it when the time came to

it and he gave in and he wanted to take

money we had the money to be able to do

it this sort of dark period between 2018

and sort of 2020 was did that cause it

or was that just on top of it that was

like on that was the icing on the cake

right so the business is stagnant and

then you get this letter through someone

wants to take everything you have and we

spent so many months like just sat in

the back office just figuring out what

we're going to recall the brand how

we're going to Rebrand it and like what

it meant if it was not represent anymore

and we wouldn't we couldn't post

anything on social media so it was like

we can't show this guy that the brand

does well or we're making any money

because then he'll want more and he'll

start seeing all these other things and

we just we were so in our own heads

about it and like all the advice from

lawyers was just just always bad

news um but eventually we got him to

come up come up with a figure that he

wanted for it

and I remember it was I think it was

March 2020 we ended up like signing and

getting getting our name back he wanted

Millions

yeah um you said the lawyers were giving

you bad news what were they saying just

like they wouldn't respond for three

months the lawyers no no no not the

lawyers his lawyers okay his lawyers

okay so he and then they respond on the

last day of like this three Monon period

but you'd be in the car going to like

Portugal to find out if this

production's ready and you'd get this

long email and your heart just drop and

he'd be like what's going to get said

and then we' go back to the office and

sit there again and try and rethink of

another name and then respond to him

within a few days and then be another

three months so there was just this like

this dark cloud above our heads all the

time when you say Dark Cloud what does

the Dark Cloud feel

like fly on the wall again yeah just you

not being able to be yourself with

everything you do every decision you

make whether it's buying a [ __ ]

sandwich from the shop it's like that's

not your money to buy that sandwich cuz

someone else owns a name where you're

making that that

money it' like get you like

that did it interfere with your sleep

your mental health everything um but Al

but like I said earlier it also became

this driving force where like i' use it

as a thing where it was like I know this

Probably sounds so stupid but like I

just got started running in 2020 and I

was like I'm going to go out and run 15K

and if I stop that's like him coming for

us you know he's like I have to do it I

have to win at everything we do whether

it's just a run or it's a design selling

or whatever it is like you cannot stop

now can't be easy going through that

with your brother as well because you're

going to both be somewhat protective of

each other I imagine and if there's that

dark cloud hanging over both of you at

the same time it's yeah it ruined both

of us it ruined his the way he designed

and yeah everything and then So

eventually you get a break and this guy

agrees to a

figure and at the time I you know

millions and millions of pounds if

you're making six or seven million in

the business and you're saying it's not

really profitable I'm guessing the money

wasn't in the bank to send this guy

millions of pounds no but the deal went

through in 2020 when we were really like

pushing forward and doing everything we

could to that when that thing happened

we had enough money for it how do you

feel about him this guy that sent you

that ler up until

then just hate just absolute hate

because

we were a bunch of young guys that were

trying to build this business and we had

20 employees at the time that we'd

probably have to lay off and we'd lose

all the money and we'd be in debt for

the rest of our lives or whatever just

because he decided that he wanted to use

that name to sell nothing basically

wasn't selling anything

um so yeah up until that day I was I was

really upset about it

but after it I kind of just realized

that it is what it is and that's how

things go and

and when I look back at it now it really

[ __ ] catapulted the business cuz

that's when we came out of our shell and

that's when we started really like

building this brand into a lifestyle and

not just t-shirts on the floor on an

Instagram page did your parents know

yeah that you were going through that

yeah a little bit how I wouldn't tell

them the full extent but why just cuz I

didn't I don't like putting pressure on

other people um especially when it's not

going to affect their lives as such at

the time um but yeah we go to my mom and

dad's every weekend and like it would

always be a subject that came up has he

replied yet has he responded like have

you heard anything it's just

like yeah it [ __ ] us how how did you

how did you deal with that cuz you're a

young you're a young guy I remember the

first time in business where I

experienced anxiety um I I thought

anxiety was something that happens to

other people yeah and then I remember

the day very clearly where I had to let

the managing director in our New York

office go I had to fire him right and I

was sat in my apartment in Manchester

thinking about that flight tomorrow

where I I'd asked this person to come

and meet me for a

coffee and I was just like riddled with

anxiety for the first time ever I was

like this is this is what people talk

about when they're talking about mental

health this is it it's happening to me I

Invincible but it's it's suddenly

happening happening to me um obviously

as it always goes it was never it wasn't

as bad as I imagined but it's the imag

that imagination is 95% of it isn't it

have you experienced that before um

mental

health I always struggle when people ask

me about this cuz no not really um I've

always been pretty solid on where I want

to go who I want to be what I want to do

and just stuck to a plan um anxiety that

that thing that period yeah that caused

me anxiety but not not to an extent

where it was like crippling mhm um but

like I kind of now I kind of enjoy the

the bits of anxiety I get because you

learn from it right like you going into

that meeting and telling him you're

going to get fired once that's done you

have that relief and then you know next

time you do it this is how it goes so

you lose that 95% of anxiety that

happens before it or you lose a little

bit of it yeah I get really anxious

going on to podcasts like the past few

days I've been really anxious coming on

here um and I've done a hundred of them

before um so you never lose it but

how'd you goope with it just being

prepared as much as you can for whatever

that thing is so whe if that is you

going to fire someone you got to know

the reasons why you're firing them like

where they can go what's going to be

best for them what's going to be best

for you and just going into it like that

um and then there's nothing really that

can happen within that meeting then that

that can go wrong I think and I think

that kind of clears the

anxiety on your on the brands you know

you've gone through a bit of a

transition you said you was the brand

was stagnant at one point and then it

took off again when you made a lot of

sort of operational changes and sort of

changes to the business model but at the

heart of the brand there was always

something special you know to even be at

six million revenue and I remember back

when I first discovered represent and

for anyone that doesn't know it's

basically the only thing I wear so like

if you ever see me out or on stage or

whatever I'm wearing represent head to

toe I mean it's it's I wear this I

usually don't wear this on the podcast

but when I'm not on the podcast it's the

only thing I'm wearing and the the 24/7

pants that you made are the only pants

that I wear everyone knows that like you

know I don't actually have another pair

ofs that's all over um because there's

something there when I discovered the

brand there was always something special

about it and it's hard to explain right

and when you observe the brand it's

clearly turned into a bit of a cult

right a good cult no one's getting

murdered it's a good cult but what is

that thing that the brand always had oh

that's hard that's a hard question it's

really hard I think it's the fact that

it's like two brothers that from

Manchester that don't really belong in

fashion have come up and done this

really cool thing where they're proven

that we don't need to just follow the

rule book and we can do whatever we want

to do and sell whatever we want to sell

and like it's still even though it's a

huge brand now it's still like a small

thing where like the Owners Club for

existence like which is like one range

within it one range within it where like

you see someone else wi an own's Club

hoodie like you see them two guys not at

each other and it's like yeah part of

something like we've kind of built this

community that is it stems from the

people that are in the business but it's

so much bigger and it's on a global

scale but it's still like pretty small

and it's it's like a it's a family

business right it's run by two brothers

and everyone within the business feels

like family and when you buy a piece of

that product we're giving them way more

than what they expect like I my one of

my main things is like quality and I

want the customer to think um I follow

these guys kind of cool I might try a

hoodie and they get way more than they

expect and that's when like they become

part of that cult you're exceeding their

expectations exceeding their

expectations way more than what they

thought it would but for you to exceed

my expectations there must be something

going on in the office yeah that isn't

going on in the other fashion brands

offices yeah and what is that thing

that's happening at represent that's

probably not happening at your

competitive place I think it's my innate

desire to just have just be the best

however we show up whether it's a popup

whether it's a run Club whether it's the

the feel of a garment or the delivery

saying it's going to take three days and

it takes one day I think it's just my

innate desire to just really be the best

at how we show up as a brand

exhausting because because the reason

why people don't do that is because it's

easier to cut the corner right it's

easier to send it 3 days it's easier to

not really care about the quality of

course but like it's so personal to us

and it's all we were and it's all we

obsess over every day so it's got to be

good what do people not see in terms of

the effort that goes into the work

between you and your brother Michael

what is what is it that people don't see

they don't see Mike enough yeah I'm

trying to get him to come out more with

how how he does things and these process

and stuff but you like with him you're

seeing a guy that is in a room designing

all day every day with his Graphics team

and it's not just him it's the full

scale of the business the logistics the

production the Garment TX the guys that

are designing all the the actual

garments and like the content team like

all of them are so bought into it and

everyone we bring up to the office

whether it's a store or another brand or

whatever like they're [ __ ] Blown Away

no one can believe what's going on in

there and it's this ecosystem that's

been built by spy and us as leaders and

and really like bled this Mission into

everyone that's in there that like we're

creating something that's going to be

like like phenomenal and something

that'll last way longer than what we

lost ourselves when you've put so much

of your heart into the designs and then

you go on Instagram and someone's copied

it yeah and it's your brother's design

that they've copied and I see I see

people copying your stuff all the

time how's that it's good it means it

means the Design's good right no that's

not how you felt the first time no at

first you [ __ ] hate it and you think

people are taking food off your table

and in some cases that's right um and if

if it's a brand that's like very similar

to us and they're trying to do the same

they're at the same price points as us

and they're in our market and they're

taking market share then yeah it's like

they shouldn't be doing that and it'll

bite them in the ass when it comes to it

and at the end of the day it's who's in

it for the long run right copying other

people we used to do it when we we

started I'm not going to sit here and

say everything was origin

we've all been there and done that I

don't think I don't think when you're at

a larger scale you do do it but then you

see brands that are huge High luxury

fashion brands go and do it to a small

designer um so I think it's just it's

just what comes with life I'm sure

you'll get it with podcasts it's the

same thing right you just got to laugh

at

it yeah I've thought about how you know

my journey with with people like copying

what you do or whatever has been it's

been on a bit of a journey and it's

difficult cuz it's because especially

when you care so much about something

someone copies it it really hits you in

the heart to some degree it's like

especially if you can like remember

where you came up with that idea and

then but I but you're right it's an

inevitability and it's also um I always

think about how the most important stuff

is actually the part of the iceberg

under the water yeah and even with

design I I try and get this across to my

team that like it's not even the design

really that counts it's the whole brand

they're bu they're not buying into this

word yeah they're not buying into that

they're buying into this essence of like

them becoming part of this club and like

they're getting this Prestige and

getting the workouts and they're all

part of this whole like lifestyle that

we're portraying and doing and living

and becoming the most important stuff

they can't copy no one can copy that

they can copy a logo and they can't copy

like what what you stand for

right so you've gone from being a

business that was making sort of 8

million in 2018 to as we sit here now I

think last year you did about about 100

million dollar yeah which is exceptional

money is now um large in your life you

I'm sure you run the numbers and you go

[ __ ] I'm worth this much money if I sold

it for this [ __ ] try not

to but do you think uh do you think

about how do you think about money now

I'm not going to lie and sit here and

say like oh money's not an issue money's

not a a thing that drives me because it

is and I think it is with everyone and

I'll speak to billionaires and they'll

say on camera

that they're doing it for this and they

doing it for that and then they'll say

off camera like I want to get [ __ ]

Rich course I want to be rich everyone

wants to be rich there's there's no

negativity that comes with having a lot

of money and I think that society and

the way it's perceived now is like not a

good thing that you're making a lot of

money like I want I want represent to be

doing billions I want everyone in the

business to be extremely wealthy I want

the leadership team to be able to have

generational wealth like that that's

first and foremost like I I like I love

that why not but if you had a billion

pounds now would you be any happier I I

don't measure anything on happiness like

I I'm I'm happy to sit in design for 6

hours or I'm happy to go for a run and

like absolutely ruin my legs like that

makes me happy I also like doing hard

things and rewarding myself um and

that's NE that's not really money but

like like I said earlier money never has

a negative impact I don't

think but on that point about giving you

a billion dollars if I give you a

billion dollars and it's not going to

make you any any happier then what's the

point in the the money I think it will

make me happier really yeah course dude

I could my family would be set forever

all my team would be set forever like

that in makes me happy imagine me being

able to turn up to my family and being

like

okay Dad I know you've worked all your

life here's here's this enjoy it what's

the exit strategy per se I don't know

anything else so why would I want to

leave how are you going to get the

billion if you don't leave we'll do it

in

profits um no I don't I don't want a I

don't want a billion dollars in my bank

account like that's not needed

but when you say what's the exit

strategy I'm like when I watched you

leave your business I was always

thinking like you already had the the

podcast lined up and you're already

ready to move into this thing anyway so

it made sense for you I don't have that

and I also don't want that like I love

represent I wake up and it's represent

everything everything I talk to about

everyone is the brand everything I do is

the brand that what like even bringing

my fitness into this thing is my brand

and like I've been able to then build

247 into this brand which is actually

just like more of a passion project for

me than um than building a business and

even though like all the athletes that

are involved like I'm able to suck so

much like knowledge and worth out of

these people personally for myself

through the brand so me then moving into

something else or just selling the

business doesn't make sense when your

identity and your profession become so

intrinsically

linked there's a cost to that right

because it must feel you know you talked

about back back backs beinging against

the wall

um God if the brand were to go down down

if the revenue started to Plum it and it

went out of Vogue or whatever they call

it like it just was no not popular

anymore that's linked to your like

self-esteem and you're like self-worth

and your

identity 100% and look there is days

where it doesn't do well there is still

days now where we'll launch products and

we'll have a nightmare with it how do

that feel honestly it [ __ ] with you

[ __ ] with your confidence um but it

also gives you a realization that you're

not super human and you can't do

everything and not everything your touch

turns to gold and then you got to go

back to the drawing board and do it

again what does that look like so that

you think about the last time it

happened how did it feel and how long

did that feeling last it lasts a few

days and I'll speak to Spenny about it a

lot over them few days and he'll

reassure that something else is going to

take that feeling away from it and it

usually does and as well like it it's

not all about small failures along the

way and there's so many exciting things

that when something small trips you up a

little bit you've got to realize like no

this is for the long term like the

future is this is in 10 years let's look

back at this as like a a learning curve

amongst all of this you've still got to

figure out how to have a life like a

personal life because regardless of how

intrinsically connected you are to the

brand represent you're still going to

need to have a life you're still going

to need to be a George in there

somewhere yeah and I never really did

for a long time past 10 years I've not

really had a

life not nothing outside of represent

but I've built repres into my life in

the moment I think about you know times

in my career where I was absolutely all

in on something to the point that I was

like seven days a week in this [ __ ]

office and even the weekends when

there's nothing to do I'm just in there

cuz I got new mates dude so that's when

I realized so them Sundays where you'd

be sat at home on your own no one would

be messaging you you can't do anything

with people in the business because it's

their time off with the families that's

when I realized like [ __ ] I'm like I'm

probably too bought into this were you

lonely alone but never lonely never I

never got to the point

where I felt lonely may maybe a little

bit but like I would I would distract

myself with going working out for five

hours you

know or just putting my headphones in

and listening to a book and just just

going and coming back and then the

Sunday's done anyway Sundays were my

worst days because I didn't have anyone

to do anything with

like I'd go I'd go and train at a local

gym where there's a big Community there

for the from 6:00 a.m. till 9:00 a.m.

and I come home I just sit there and

think when's it Monday isn't that funny

text my mom like what you up to and she

be like oh we're actually up in Scotland

doing this trip I be like [ __ ] I can't

even go and see my

mom so yeah I guess I guess there is a

little bit of loneliness in there yeah I

was lonely but I didn't know it at the

time yeah I only know it in hindsight

cuz I look back at the way I was living

and right yeah I was filling the Gap the

Sunday Saturday Summer evenings holidays

even Christmases like cuz I was in

Manchester my family are in the

southwest I was filling it with work

like often just like pointless work

absolutely unneeded stuff a lot of the

time it's it's great and you can go out

and you can spend a few hours on your

own and write a load of things down that

you need to do that next week or but you

need a team to do

anything like I can't get anything done

without the team and that's that's one

thing I would realize every weekend that

like I'm wasting my time pretending to

work it's exactly what I was

doing relationships romantic

relationships let's start with

non-romantic relationships in fact you

talk about having to shed people in

terms of like negative influences in

order to change your

life people ask me about this all the

time which is yeah you know how

important is the environment on personal

and professional success I think it's

everything I think your ecosystem that

you build around you is everything

whether that's the distance it takes you

to get to the gym or the people you

follow on social media if you're

following Joe from school that's out

every night drinking and you're watching

them stories even if it's 20 seconds of

your day you're wasting your time

watching them stories and you're also

looking at things that are just

absolutely pointless to your life so why

don't you go and follow someone who's

done what you want to do or he's doing

what you want to do or who actually

inspires you and just clear out all the

[ __ ] and you you're going to be so

much more in your in the right head

space if you do something like

that did you do that did you clear out

yeah did it a lot of

times got a lot of bad messages from

doing it really

Jo okay yeah why did you unfollow me do

you explain it to him um yeah just tell

them how it is

just say look man I don't want to watch

you sit anymore so romantic

relationships then how has that been

because it it must must be pretty tricky

with the level of obsession that you

have to maintain a healthy happy

romantic relationship nonexistent didn't

didn't entertain it for so many years

tried it

once maybe like when I was 25 26 and

just didn't work Why didn't it work I

was obsessed with work and I was also

like

I didn't know who I was and what I

wanted to be and it was before that era

before that time of mine where I changed

so it just I didn't like who I was and

obviously that doesn't work when you're

in a relationship you got to you got to

love yourself first right MH um and then

after that I just kind of just said no

I'm not doing it and didn't up until

recently really didn't entertain it at

all for so many years you got a

girlfriend have I no not not really kind

of would she answer this question the

same way she got a boyfriend she's got a

boyfriend no are you a little bit um are

you you're an avoidant aren't you do you

know the the attachment Styles have you

heard about the attachment Styles no

what's that three attachment Styles

you've got the secures they're the ones

that just have the perfect relationships

right you know they're like no problems

they're like you know and then you've

got the anxious ones who clingy like