you have to go to a dark place sometimes

to like get to that point

who

[Music]

we are so excited to have Lucy Hale

she's been in the spotlight since she

was just a kid stars on the hit show

Pretty Little Liars and now I'm a movie

star not what you were expecting you

might be the first real deep

conversation I've had it's dark

disgusting and scary I wish I could go

back and tell my 16 year old self buckle

up girl we're gonna go through some

foreign

[Applause]

assumption that it'll fix a bunch of

stuff what didn't it fix I struggled

with the eating disorder because society

makes it really freaking hard to like

the way you look I hated myself so much

that I couldn't even give it basic needs

like food I did not feel worthy of the

success or the career or the people in

my life and then the coping mechanisms

were like incredibly self-destructive

I've been working on getting sober since

I was 20. I just like held on to that

belief that real Lucy came out when she

was drinking I tried to change for my

mom I tried to change for my career one

of my best friends died of alcoholism

and that still didn't make me want to

get sober none of that Works alcohol

isn't the problem the problem is this

feeling inside of me I have to try it a

different way was there a Darkest Day

[Music]

I just want to start this episode with a

message of thanks a thank you to

everybody that Tunes in to listen to

this podcast by doing so you've enabled

me to live out my dream but also for

many members of our team to live out

their dreams too it's one of the

greatest privileges I could never have

dreamed of or imagined in my life to get

to do this to get to learn from these

people to get to have these

conversations to get to interrogate them

from a very selfish perspective trying

to solve problems I have in my life so I

feel like I owe you a huge thank you for

being here and for listening to these

episodes and for making this platform

what it is can I ask you a favor I can't

tell you how much you can change the

course of this podcast the the course of

the guests were able to invite to the

show and to the course of everything

that we do here just by doing one simple

thing and that simple thing is hitting

that subscribe button helps this channel

more than I could ever explain the

guests on this platform are incredible

because so many of you have hit that

button and I know when we think about

what we want to do together over the

next year on this show a lot of it is

going to be fueled by the amount of you

that are subscribed in that tune into

this show every week so thank you let's

keep doing this and I can't wait to see

what this year brings for this show for

us as a community and for this platform

[Music]

I tend to start these podcasts in a very

similar way and I think in your case

it's never been more pertinent to start

in that way which is

to understand your context I've got to

be honest I I read a lot about you

online but I couldn't really get to the

very Crux of like who you are and why

you are that way and it was really

really surprising to me because it

almost appeared that you hadn't done a

proper

slightly deeper interview before no I

think it's so interesting you word it

that way because I actually didn't know

who I was until very recently and I

think that's because and yes you might

be the first

um

real deep conversation I've had publicly

and that's part of the reason why I

wanted to do this because I'll start off

with saying I just think you're so

amazing you're obviously very

intelligent but like you lead with your

heart and I was like oh I feel like this

would be a good match for us to kind of

talk but

yeah I I think because

I I moved to LA when I was 15 and

started working pretty young that my

identity became

what I did for a living and my

accomplishments and my successes or

failures within my career space so it

took me a long time to figure out

who I was or who I wanted to be like to

people would ask me what kind of person

are you and I actually couldn't answer

it I had no idea and through a series of

um

I guess we'll call it speed bumps just

we all have our own personal journey I

have

I'm slowly like peeling away that onion

of

of who I am and it turns out like that

person's always been here I just

forgot she was there or like kind of put

her in the basement if you will but

um

but yeah it's been an interest it's been

a really powerful

last year for me

um

I will give you a heads up I cry all the

time so just I'm I'm getting you ready I

also have big eyes and they get really

glassy but I I get emotional when I

speak about these things because

I just love

where I've landed in my life and it's

been a really

um

Jesus I didn't know I'd get like

emotional this early on

um it's just been a really

powerful and painful insightful joyous

horrible journey and I um

love that I can sit across from you now

and be my most authentic self so that's

a long way of saying I'm glad to be here

and it's not is it it makes you

emotional because you're happy where you

are now

I I mean I I've always kind of felt like

an open wound if if that makes sense

like even as a kid I just felt like I

felt things in a really deep way

um you could call that maybe

codependency or

um taking on problems that weren't mine

but now I get emotional because

of the perspective and just

having pride and in the choices I've

made and

um and it's not it's not an emotional

tears in a sad way it's more just Joy

whereas I've been happy at different

points in my life but I hadn't ever

experienced joy and to me the difference

in happiness and being joyous joyous is

long-term and sustainable and it doesn't

come from anything external

comes from here and

um

and I had always heard people say that

that like true happiness comes from

yourself and I was like I don't what

what are you doing like okay shut up

like I don't know what you're talking

about but but it really does and it's

been

um

a slow grind

so let's start from the beginning then

um your context before the age of

10 years old growing up in Memphis bring

me into that world like what do I what

do I need to know about that that

chapter in your life to understand

the journey and the direction that

Journey took

um yeah so from Memphis

uh families all still in Tennessee I

have an older sister who I adore and

admire so so much

um I

mainly lived with my mom growing up my

dad's still in the picture but they were

divorced really young

and I was just what was I like as a

child I was

I think as long as I can remember I've

always felt kind of like

and I don't mean this in a sad way like

in a victim way I've always felt like I

was on the outside looking in like I

never had a lot of friends I never felt

the need to

make friends or be social like after

school I wouldn't

want to go to a friend's house I would I

would rush to get home to go be alone

with myself so I've kind of always

craved this feeling of needing Solitude

because that's when I could sort of

be myself and I felt that as early as

you know 10 years old

but um

I guess my love of entertaining

uh came from

my mom was married to this man who heard

me singing in my room when I was

probably like six or seven

I loved Aladdin I loved Disney movies

and I I vividly remember like pretending

to be Jasmine on the Magic Carpet and I

would just sing with my little tapes and

and he told my mom like Lucy's got a

good voice

and up until that point I had never you

know I was too young to even know what

being a singer meant but

that led to taking singing lessons which

led to performing around Memphis and

mind you I hated performing live like I

felt for someone who's an introvert

and someone who loves Solitude being on

stage and I'm sure we'll talk about this

later like I ended up doing music as an

adult and I still had that same feeling

I just felt so exposed and it was really

scary and I ran a little anxious

um

but anyway so I I grew up performing in

that way and then I found out what it

meant to be an actor this is probably

around age 13 or 14. and we found this

small agent who

was like Lucy should audition for this

show that Disney's doing called Hannah

Montana this was years before they cast

Miley Cyrus and it was then it was that

moment in that audition where I was

thinking oh I can act and sing at the

same time like this is my dream this is

my way out you know and um way out

I'll get yeah I'll

you're so smart yes so I I now as an

adult I'll Circle back around to it

um because you know how I said it was

hard for me to say what kind of person

am I

it was also hard for me up until

recently to to know why I wanted to be

an actor I didn't know why until

recently and I'll Circle back around to

it but um

so it was this Hannah Montana audition

which led to

knowing what a pilot season was and

pilot season for anyone listening is

when they don't really have a pilot

season anymore because of streaming and

and everything but it's when a network

pays money for one episode to see if

they want to invest in doing a series

you know what a pilot season is but um I

talked to my mom into moving out to

California and when I mean taught I

didn't talk her into it I think it was

perfect timing for her

and for me

and we packed up our Prius and all of

our stuff which wasn't a lot I come from

a very simple upbringing

and my mom was a travel nurse she cashed

in her retirement

for us to move out here and I always ask

her now I'm like how did you

how did you do that like that's kind of

insane

and she and I'm sure she has her

personal reasons too but

she was like I kind of just had this

feeling it was gonna work out for you

that also makes me cry and I also think

it's really funny because if it hadn't

worked out I'd be screwed because I

didn't graduate high school I

wouldn't know where I belonged like

I think my lucky stars that it did work

out because

um

life would would look a lot different

I'm sure

um and then so we moved to LA planning

to stay for three months at 15 and I

never left and I've been here almost 20

years

and now I guess it's a good segue into

what I meant by a way out

and I guess what I mean by that is

I never felt

I knew that life

there was not I didn't feel like home I

never knew where I fit in

um I felt I love my family so much but I

always felt like the black sheep of the

family I just felt different even as a

little kid

and um

and it's no wonder that I got into

acting because that was I was always in

my imagination like my coping mechanism

was like Dreamland in my head and like

fantasizing about what my future would

look like well if you believe in the

power of manifestation my future looked

like this

like little lucy kind of created this

this whole life for myself and I just

knew I wanted

something different you know you use the

word coping mechanism yes I'm really I'm

really compelled by that okay because I

sat with Maisie Williams

um that

was another reason why I really wanted

to do this because I thought that

episode in particular was so powerful

really moving

um

yeah that yeah I I've got chills then

just thinking about it because

and as you were speaking there was a lot

of like through lines and similarities

as to what you were saying like Maisie

really kind of lost her identity in

because she was a very young actress and

she became but also she was

in her own words using acting as a way

to escape which is almost what I heard

from from you there yes I didn't realize

it I realized now that my job completely

was and has been at times a huge

Band-Aid for a lot of issues in my life

because I have like very addictive

Tendencies and a very addictive

personality and work like a lot of

people can be such an amazing

distraction and we get away with it

because you're productive you make money

people like you it's not like a negative

addictive behavior but

it's so easy to not heal or not focus on

what's going on when you're constantly

busy and that's why after an experience

like Pretty Little Liars why everything

kind of just like you know

because for we did that show for we did

170 something episodes I was like eight

years of my life in between 20 and 28

years old

I I don't feel like I emotionally

developed in I don't know what normal is

but I feel like I missed out on

some normal experiences and

so it wasn't until that period of my

life afterwards where I realized

how I was contributing to my own

suffering and I didn't even realize the

magnitude of it until I was outside of

something like that show

in hindsight when you look back on your

younger years you talked about your

parents separating how what impact did

that have on you in hindsight any of you

you know I often think about this

because

I think it was 100 the best decision for

everyone and I

um you know you hear about so many

people staying together for the kids oh

my [ __ ] no if my I'm so glad that my

parents separated because it was the

best thing for everyone

and why

um it wasn't a happy marriage I don't

think

you know and I I wanna

respect both of my parents and not

speak up really on that but but I do

think that

it may have been a little toxic at times

and you know I was four my sister was

six and it uh it allowed for a little

more peace and calmness and and both of

my parents are now remarried to

wonderful people and and it all worked

out but I think

um

I was

raised by a single mom for a lot of my

childhood she was

remarried for a little bit but my my dad

is now back in my life and he's given me

so many lessons I mean I think that

anything that's traumatic or painful

like I sort of just use that as

ammunition to move forward I'm like what

is this trying to teach me what has this

given me because we can look at any

experience and say and play victim

and you can I think it's okay to be the

victim when you're younger like your

teenager your 20s you it's kind of okay

to do that and part of life but I think

at some point you have to take ownership

of your life

that's why I feel like so many people

are miserable because it's you're in

victim mode

I don't ever want to be a victim of my

life or my circumstances ever

I want to be the happiest I can be and

learn the most I can possibly learn

about myself and sometimes that means

you have to go to a dark place sometimes

to like get to that point

whoo

um

[Music]

thank you I'm a crybaby

yeah that's fine

I don't even remember

thanks

these remind me of like McDonald's

napkins which makes me happy I love

McDonald's

um

expensive building they said we've run

up I love it I love it um I don't even

know what I was saying but sometimes you

have to go to a dark place

what was I saying before sometimes I go

in a trance and I just talk and only

remember what I was talking about

um oh just talking about my parents

divorce yeah I think it's so easy to

look at these experiences and

feel sorry for yourself but life is so

much more interesting and freeing and

liberating when you look at something

when you look at things that have

happened to you when you're a child and

say what beautiful lesson did I get out

of that and if we're just taking

my parents divorce as an example

the biggest lesson I learned from that

is what kind of love do I want in my

life what am I going to stand for or not

stand for and

and something I always stand by in my

life is like I'm not settling I'm not

settling and that can mean that just

means people got to meet me where I'm at

I've worked too hard to feel how I feel

today

for a jobs experiences people

relationships lovers friends whatever it

is like

gotta meet me here and it doesn't mean

you can't compromise with people that's

different

but I just allow a certain kind of thing

in my life and

um

yeah

your grandmother

got a tattoo on your left wrist oh wow

yes I I didn't I saw you pulling out

your left wrist so I just went with it

yeah I love you yes so

what role did she play

so she her name was Karen and she was my

dad's mom and my grandmother rest in

peace you amazing Soul she was the

coolest badass woman I've ever met

she taught me about things that maybe I

shouldn't have learned at such a young

age she would put on Oprah when Oprah

would be talking about

really heavy topics she put on the movie

Grease when I was a kid and that was a

movie where I'm like

I want to do that

um and I I don't know where you land

within the

medium psychic space but I've talked to

I do um I practice Reiki with

um this woman named Katie who always

senses my grandmother's energy and and

every kind of experience like that my

grandmother's energy has showed up so I

truly believe that she

is here with me but she was just

smart and she thought

differently than anyone in my family and

as an adult I can look back and think

I'm so much like her like I just I miss

her she died really young

she died of emphysema and it's shocking

I never picked up smoking because I I

told you I'm like an extremist but I've

never been a smoker because of her and

um

yeah she died in her mid-60s

she was so funny like she

she had breathing tubes on and she

smoked until the day she died still but

that just like showed you who she was

she just

was a Powerhouse and so funny

um

and I miss her I miss her all the time I

and it and it's kind of sad because

I don't have that many pictures of her

because it was before

I had a cell phone and she died when I

was 15 so

I maybe had just gotten one of those

Sidekicks or Nokia phones and I just

don't have that much tangible memories

of her you named after they right yeah

yeah Karen Lucille and uh so she

definitely lives on in me in that way

and

um

yeah that's nice to chat about her thank

you for bringing her up I was really

inspired by

um the love your mother must have had it

for you but also really the belief she

must have had in you to move to LA with

you when you were 15 I'm assuming purely

so you could pursue a career in

Hollywood at 15 years old yeah it's

totally bizarre and when I tell people

that I just have to set the tone my mom

was not a stage mom at all and by that I

mean she wasn't it was never forced upon

me I she just always

encouraged me to follow this dream which

is so incredible because you hear of so

many people where it's the opposite

where the parents are forcing a dream

you don't really want onto you and she

just instilled a lot of willpower my mom

is such a hard worker I do believe I

have my I get my drive and work ethic

from her and she's so selfless like she

would give her last penny to anyone

and just loves with her entire heart

um and my my mom and I have definitely

had our

uh

rough moments in

over the course of

our lives but we're in such a beautiful

place now where we really can show up

exactly how we are without getting

um triggered or defensive because we're

really similar in the way we approach

our emotions I guess and so we've kind

of

have butted heads at times but she's

always been my

just biggest fan and

um I have no idea how because because I

often think if I had a daughter who

wanted to do what I want to do would I

do that I don't know how do you know

it's kind of insane isn't it thanks Mom

for being insane I love you for it like

thank God

uh but

it was a risk for sure and she came and

worked as a nurse

yeah so she the only way we could afford

to live out here because as you know

cost of living is insane

um she was a travel nurse which is kind

of an agency for nurses that live across

the world and they could place her at a

hospital and they would pay for our rent

and she would make a little extra money

but I mean we were kind of Barely

getting by

barely getting by and

yeah I feel like there's always kind of

financial

worry there but we we always she always

made it work we always figured it out

and by 216 you start working in TV shows

and stuff out here in L.A yeah so the

first so this is a really cool story to

tell you because I just got back from

Vancouver but the first show I ever did

the first series was called Bionic Woman

it was a remake of a show a really

popular show from the 70s 80s on NBC and

I got cast as the little sister and we

lived in Vancouver

um in this building right by the Sea

line and then I now 19 years later just

was working up there again and I look

out the window of the building I was

living in it's the exact same building

my mom lived in and I'm like that is

just

the universe full circle it was the

coolest full circle moment of being 16

there with my mom on my first job to

everything that's transpired to me being

33 working there now it was just like

this really incredible moment but but

yeah I uh

started kind of working

supporting myself since 17 and then I

think my mom saw that I

somewhat had a good head on my shoulders

by 18 and then she moved back to

Tennessee that period between

you being 16 and 19 when you

living out in L.A predominantly

um before you know you get cast for

Pretty Little Liars how do you feel

about that chapter of your life

when you reflect on that that chapter

that 16 to 19 year old chapter

what do you think so interesting because

I actually haven't

seeing this building in Vancouver was

the first time I had thought about that

time in my life in

10 years I actually haven't sat and

thought about

I know I also feel like so much of my

memories are kind of blurry from that

time

I

it's so weird like I can't even answer

that question I think

I think I was very grateful to be in LA

and pursuing this dream but that was

kind of the beginning of it all of of

what was to come

um like I wish I could go back and tell

my 16 year old self like buckle up girl

we're gonna get through this but we're

gonna go through some [ __ ] you know

um I and I've been open about this

before like I struggled with the eating

disorder uh most of my teen years up

until like mid-20s and it it was around

that time that it had kind of that was

like turned up to a 10 and I and it I

mean it's all in direct correlation with

moving to a new city

throwing myself into the world of acting

like I think my life kind of fell out of

control in a way and my emotions fell

out of control and

body stuff food stuff is all needing

needing to control

and um

uh so yeah I mean I guess I look back on

that time and

I have compassion now like I don't want

to say I feel sorry for myself but

I do believe in like

I mean I was a teenager but all the

inner child work where you just kind of

see that image of you young you and

really hold space for that and really

speak kindly to yourself

um

but honestly I don't really remember a

lot more and I don't know if that's

weird but it I I also feel that

similarly about my childhood I have

certain memories but

I don't know maybe I was disassociating

a lot I told you I lived in my head a

ton so

I don't know it seems like so much has

happened since then

Eating Disorders yeah how do I how do I

understand that as someone that's never

experienced um eating disorder how do I

how do I understand that is there a

moment where you've realized that

there's a there's a problem or you you

notice Behavior patterns that you think

are

um

unhealthy to say the least I think from

anything that disrupts your life or your

happiness or your relationships or your

career like

that can be described as a problem and I

think for me it was

all I thought about from the moment I

woke up until I went to bed at night how

much did I eat how much did I work out I

would step on a scale 30 times a day I

was eating so little that it was

shocking

um and it wasn't really ever about

that's a lie it was about the way I

looked at one point because I thought if

I could just be this number or this goal

weight then I'll be enough because it

all rooted back to I don't feel enough I

don't feel like enough why

um

and that's still a question I'm figuring

out because it it

um self-worth and knowing I'm enough

like where did the thought of I'm not

enough come from did I hear it when I

was a kid I don't know did I hear

something that resonated is you're not

enough maybe

um do you know who that is he he came on

my podcast he's maybe maybe the leading

therapist psychologist in the world on

like childhood trauma and and much of

the Crux of what he talks about is where

we learn this idea that we're not enough

as kids one of the things he said to me

which is still sat with me is he said to

me he goes children are narcissists he

goes when the parents arguing the child

thinks it's about them yeah and when he

said that to me I go oh my God it

explains so much sponges yeah so but we

interpret that situation like that home

life situation or whatever as like this

is about me yeah and and so now I can

look back and say maybe as a kid I

thought my parents got divorced because

of Me Maybe I you know there's a million

different scenarios so I'm certain I

learned it at a young age and

and as kids none of us come out

unscathed right like we all take on some

sort of pain and Trauma from somewhere

or someone

but mine manifested as an eating

disorder initially which then led to

other issues but it but it all started

because I always try to think when

when did it begin when did this

Obsession begin

and I want to say it was maybe around

like 13 or 14 when I had um no no like

1415 was starting homeschooling and I

had to start logging my exercise hours

and why it was for PE and you had to say

I'm do I did PE today for

x amount of time

and that's the only thing I can think of

that started this obsession with

movement and then I saw my body kind of

change and then I started restricting

eating and then it became like I said

just it slowly just grew and grew to

something that it I could not enjoy life

I could not have a conversation I could

not focus on anything it's a it's a

miracle that I even started working and

could focus on acting because it was

when I mean it was a constant loop I

don't know how I got out of it

and I I mean the thing with eating

disorders is

it can

always creep back up on you and there

are days when I don't feel like my best

self but I love myself enough now to

nourish my body and it's so sad to think

that I hated myself so much that I

couldn't even give it basic needs like

food

are you kidding me like that is so

tragic and so many people don't

understand

the space of an eating disorder because

there's a spectrum and I can only speak

from my point of view which

I mean I don't I really don't know any

woman that has a normal relationship to

their body or to food you know because

society makes it really freaking hard to

like the way you look social media is

can be a really beautiful place and

you're doing such an amazing thing with

the work you do and like changing lives

but like the social social media can be

poison I have to really limit what who I

look at what I look at and I'm a grown

adult and it feels silly but you have to

like curate your life

keep your mind and soul and spirit

feeling good

um

I always feel a little uncomfortable

talking about an eating disorder because

I'm

I'm sensitive and I know that it can be

triggering and hard for people to talk

about

food and bodies and people don't

understand how someone who objectively

as thin could think they were overweight

but and I can't explain it but that's

just what I saw and what I felt and it

and now I can look back and see photos

and think oh my God I was so I I wasn't

seeing reality

you just create this narrative in your

head that's scary and dark and

and It ultimately wasn't about the way I

looked it was about

so much more which is which is

self-worth

incredibly low self-worth and

and I really owe it to like getting out

of that

I dated a guy

for a long time who was Italian I mean

it sounds so silly it's like how did you

get help it wasn't through therapy I

didn't start doing therapy until my

early 20s for a different reason but

people always ask how did you

survive those horrible years of your

eating disorder

it was my Italian boyfriend who loved

and appreciated food and he would make

us go to dinner and I learned to enjoy

food again and it was like

each year that went by I started to feel

better and better and then I booked

Pretty Little Liars and it got a little

dodgy again and scary but I learned

other coping mechanisms that worked for

a while until they didn't

um but

but now my relationship

I never thought I could call myself a

foodie because today like I love food

that's how I experience a new city or a

culture like I just appreciate it and I

know that we need food to survive and

and I like I like and love and respect

my body too if I'm tired I rest

if I want to work out I work out I I can

just sort of navigate feeling

uncomfortable so much better these days

well you haven't given given a diagnosis

for that disorder was there ever medical

intervention yeah I did my mom

um

shortly before she moved to Tennessee

you know she recognized it was a problem

and she helped in the best way she knew

how but I'm sure as a parent she felt

helpless and felt like it was her fault

maybe

I went to a therapist only a handful of

times where

that was the first time I had heard your

anorexic

and that word just sounds so daunting

and scary but I mean I I've never been

in denial though like I've always had

I always knew it wasn't normal behavior

like I knew that my hair shouldn't be

falling out and then I knew that I

shouldn't be able to see every bone in

my body but

you get like addicted to this feeling of

controlling your own body

and um

so I kind of knew it was a problem but I

didn't know what anorexia meant until

this therapist had told me that that was

probably like age

17.

um

yeah I haven't thought about all that in

a long time too because I'm so on the

other side of it

and it's

nice

it's so nice to not have that

hamster wheel in your head about that

all the time

being in um

being in LA

being in the entertainment industry is a

I imagine a tricky place to be when

you're contending with issues of you

know eating disorders and because

because of the influence of you know

advertising and movies especially back

then

um social media Etc

I yeah I just can't yeah I can't having

never experienced an eating disorder

before but then thinking about being in

this environment

yeah

well what was interesting is that it

started before I even moved to LA the

eating disorder was for when I was like

13 before I'd even thought about you

know

before I had found success so

so I'm certain the things I've dealt

with in my life

I would have dealt with anyway it just

might be on the opposite end of the

spectrum because I think that the

reasonings behind all of these things

are those are old feelings that's old

stuff that has been ruminating

for a while

but yeah I mean this industry is at a

different point now where so many people

are accepted different types of people

different bodies everything and it's

such a beautiful

place I think the industry is heading

especially for a woman but when I was

starting out it wasn't really that way

and then I like book a show that's

called Pretty Little Liars what

it's so I'm like okay well we gotta be

pretty we gotta be little

okay well we got this and and you're

also 20 years old where everyone wants

to look a certain way like that age you

all want to look the same and you wanna

you know it just all flared up again

and it was all I thought about again you

know because I I thought I had overcome

it and then

but then it became a thing of control it

wasn't and then It ultimately it wasn't

about wanting to be pretty or little it

was about this is scary my life has

completely

shifted overnight

millions of people are seeing my face

Instagram had just started you know it

was just sort of beginning my first post

ever on Instagram was me and of season

one of Pretty Little Liars

um and it was like my life was now under

a magnifying glass

I felt out of control

uh oh I guess we gotta control the way I

look again and then I'll be enough and

then people will like me

how do my Mo for so much of my life was

how can I get people to like me

even though I hated myself

and like real confidence is

not I read my whole Instagram now is

just like silly affirmations but it

helped but I read something the other

day that's true confidence is not I hope

they like me it's some I'm paraphrasing

but not I hope they like me it's

I'm okay and know who I am even if they

don't and yeah

exactly what it is and that confidence

is what I've been searching for my whole

life and to know that and to show up

anywhere I go with anyone with new

people and say I'm accepted because I

accept myself I have value because I

value myself

you can put me in any situation anything

I truly mean this and I have the

confidence that I'll get through it

sober and happy

and it's

been one hell of a journey and I like

truly am not going to cry again

I wouldn't have changed anything I

literally would not have changed any

dark moment situation

because the perspective and empathy I've

gained from that I would not have

otherwise

so

you said I hated myself I know it's such

a strong word and it makes me sad that I

felt that way

maybe he hates a strong word I do this

sometimes too I'll say something then

I'll backtrack and try to like paint it

prettier but things are ugly sometimes

right

yeah I maybe it's more that I

didn't feel worthy of the things I had

in my life I didn't feel deserving

because a lot of my life

post success I did not feel worthy of

the success or the career or the people

in my life it was like this limiting

belief that

you're a fraud If people really knew who

you were they wouldn't like you

like you're worthless you don't deserve

this and even though

I wasn't actually saying those things

like subconsciously

that's what was happening I think

because I would keep making the same

mistakes and be like why is this

happening it's because I had this belief

that I

didn't deserve any of it

when you live with that sort of lack of

self-worth it manifests itself in a

variety of ways one of them you talked

about already which is trying to gain

control over something because then if I

can control this maybe I'll

gone are a bit of sort of self

self-worth from from the scales or the

mirror whatever it might be what are the

other ways that that manifested itself

in your life that like lack of

self-worth I've heard you talk about

people pleasing yeah but you you said

something curious a second ago you said

um that would the eating disorder was

the start of it um

and then you said you were going to go

on to say something else but yeah yeah I

mean it all kind of ties in together I

think the people pleasing is such a big

thing I've

been working through in my life because

what people pleasing does is you're

doing things that aren't authentic

you're doing things you don't want to do

what does that do well it builds anger

and resentment well then if you repress

that anger resentment then what happens

well it's going to come out some way and

for me my

like for such a small human I have so

much rage in that I've

have now sorted through but for so much

I just like bottled up that rage

and

for me

I

the coping mechanisms I discovered

worked for me were like incredibly

self-destructive and self-sabotaging and

I am

I'm not sure when this podcast comes out

and I had I've never talked publicly

until yesterday about being sober

I have a little over a year of sobriety

which you know the people in my life my

friends my family who are just the

greatest people in the world and have

stood by my side for you know I've been

working on getting sober since I was 20.

I'm 33. it takes time

it took time and it took patience with

myself

um I mean this is a topic I could talk

about until

the end of time but

basically what alcohol did for me

we did a couple of things it was like

it was like this feeling of oh my God

this is what I've been searching for my

whole life I'm my truest self right like

I'm so much funnier and cooler and

people like me that's all [ __ ] guess

what not true I was not myself not my

truest self but

it orig it started with wow I can be

free and funny and boys will like me

this is when I'm younger right

and I just like held on to that belief

that real Lucy came out when she was

drinking

guess what real Lucy did come out but it

was that rage and pain that I had been

holding on to for so long but it also

quieted my mind

um

I feel like

and I'm not the only person on the

planet that deals with this but like my

brain just goes

doesn't shut off it's exhausting but

when I drink because I I was like

textbook binge Drinker like

blackout wouldn't remember what I did

what I said which is

scary and and it's also hard to explain

that type of drinking to someone because

people who haven't experienced it or

dealt with it personally like you

addiction is such a

a topic that

Soso taboo because it's because people

would just tell me Well Lucy don't drink

oh thank you oh

okay

thank you so much I'll try that thanks

but now it is that now it's like okay I

just don't pick up the first drink and

I'm fine because what would happen for

me is I'd pick up the first drink I'd

like the feeling I'd have another drink

I'd really like the feeling and then it

was past drink too don't remember

I wouldn't remember the rest of the

night

um through what period of your life was

this sorry

since you were young I've had an issue I

from my very first experience drinking

which was like age 14. hmm up until a

year ago I have had a problem I've never

had a a period of my life where I was a

normal moderate Drinker it was always

let's go let's let's just

I was willing to just go to this crazy

dark place every time

and you know of course I tried trying to

be a moderate Drinker just having to my

I have an allergy to alcohol I cannot

drink I view it as an allergy to alcohol

my brain doesn't

work the same way as someone who can

just have a glass of wine it always

wants more it's like craving that that

feeling my best friend has just actually

finished a documentary on this subject

matter he was my best friend but also my

business partner for many years and the

the point where he realized he had a

problem we kind of

had a bit of a face to face because he

had done so much damage and there was

one particular instance where he did so

much damage to himself our company our

team members that we we met on a Sunday

and we we basically it was that kind of

ultimatum moment which is you're gonna

have to leave

yeah you know and yeah you can do a lot

of damage right when you're when you

have that relationship with alcohol and

you have an addiction to alcohol and it

brings out that side of you did you ever

have moments like that where people

close to you said

many times and I

but it's one of those things I I

remember the point in my life where I'm

like

I woke up

a morning after drinking and it was when

I wanted to keep drinking

I was like oh my reaction to alcohol is

different than my friends like this is

different and I've known I had a problem

this whole time I was there was never a

moment where

I thought it was normal there have been

moments where I didn't want to change

because I'm like I'm not giving this up

are you kidding me like who would I be

if I can't have fun and let loose and

drink

but I had many times my manager of 19

years

who is an angel truly an Earth Angel

I believe has saved my life at times

like this woman has been there for me

she's had hard conversations with me

I've had friends who've tough loved me

but I've had friends who say we can't

until you do x y and z

I've always been shown love and support

but the thing about

addiction or just life in general like

you gotta want something for yourself

like I had so many

things happen where you would have

thought I would change I've had I tried

to change for boyfriends I tried to

change for my mom I tried to change for

my career I tried to change for vain

Reasons I'm like well I'll look younger

and be skinnier I'll stop drinking for

that none of that [ __ ] works I had to

and wanted to get sober January 2nd 2022

because I said I deserve more I deserve

more out of this life

I have to try it a different way and I

have to be willing

to just commit to it

you know because binge drinking I would

be sober for three months then relapse

be sober for a week relapse and I never

the really crazy thing is I never let it

get in the way of my job because my

career has always been so important

but

when I'd go home at night

it would just be like so dark and I'd be

so in my head about it but

I it would be so dark I was thinking

then because my business partner

described it as he there was a pain he

was trying to escape which we just never

realized he had a pain in his in his

life in his mind I would find him

downstairs through him in the morning in

the laundry room with the lights off

drinking I thought just he just loves

alcohol right that's what people think

or like oh you like to party yeah

exactly but but I came to learn that

there was a pain he was escaping that he

hadn't addressed yes is that the same in

your situation where there was an

unaddressed pain or issue that you think

you were using alcohol as a Escape

mechanism for yes definitely I mean

alcohol isn't the problem the problem is

this feeling inside of me alcohol was

the solution you know for a while it was

my solution I'm like oh I don't have to

think about being good enough or or

whatever the problem was like it worked

for a really long time until it just

left me feeling depressed anxious lonely

just worthless but there is a big

misconception about

people who

struggle in this way is that oh they're

weak they just can't not do it or they

like to party or

they just like booze it's so much more

than that and

um yeah for me it was definitely old

stuff old feelings pain I I do think

that like I said I would have struggled

with this no matter what I did for a

living but I think

finding success at an early age and the

people pleasing and and and trying to be

what people wanted me to be made me feel

like a fraud right because like now I

can show up exactly who I am and share

my story and to actually be able to talk

about this

is so freeing because it doesn't

it's not like I'm it's chaining me down

anymore like it it takes the power away

from it like I can be Lucy which is not

always cute at times you know like it's

dark and disgusting and scary and that's

what makes us all complex amazing

beautiful human beings is we've all got

this Shadow Self

and were you happy in that chapter

that's 16 to 19 chapter

was I'm like um I'm getting a big

paycheck I'm happy I'm

no like that's not real happiness you

know you

I had told myself the lies of

you're happy or I felt guilty for not

being happy because how could I not be

happy I have x y and nobody wants to

hear about someone in my position being

unhappy right like let's just be real

nobody wants to really hear about that

but

at the end of the day I've had to allow

and I believed that too I ran with that

Lucy you don't deserve to be unhappy how

dare you feel these things but now I

know I'm a human being

and

Everything's Relative and I

it's okay for me to have these very

human experiences

and I found the people in my life that I

can talk to about it and

um was I happy I had moments of being

very happy

um but not like this not like this um

wherever I'm at in life right now it

feels peaceful

which I used to call boredom I have

moments where I'm bored I'm like ooh

what kind of fire can I start today but

then I I ran that back in

you know I never really usually pick the

chocolate flavored heels my favorite are

the banana flavor I love The Salted

Caramel flavor but recently I think I in

part blame Jack in my team who's

obsessed with the chocolate flavor heals

I've started drinking the chocolate

flavor heels for the first time and I

absolutely love them my life means that

I sometimes disregard my diet and it's

funny that's part of the reason why I've

had a lot of guests on this podcast

recently that talk about diet and health

and those kinds of things because I am

trying to make an active effort to be

more healthy to lose a little bit of

weight as well but to be more healthy

and the role that he all plays in my

life is it means that in those moments

where sometimes I might reach for

you know junk Foods

having an option that is nutritionally

complete that is high in fiber that is

incredibly high in protein that has all

the vitamins and minerals that my body

needs within Arm's Reach that I can

consume on the go is where he always

been a game changer for me quick word

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doing really immersive simple but high

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Little Liars yeah 20 years old yeah you

were doing another show right called

privileged yes privileged yeah and they

canceled that show

and that led to you being cast for

pretty little lies yeah which is pretty

amazing because the universe is yeah

yeah rejection can lead to redirection

that is there's a really cool story

there so I did this show called

privileged they canceled it I was

devastated

and the same producers said hey we have

this script

it's based off of a book we think you'd

be great for it and they said it's

called Pretty Little Liars and I'm like

ah I was such a huge fan of those books

I read the script

and it was the first time I had ever

been offered something

and so we get this offer but at the same

time so at this point it's just a pilot

and no one knew

what the success of it would be but at

the same time I got that offer I got the

offer for something else which was like

a really

I don't remember what it was called but

it was a really

shitty TV movie that I don't even think

did it get made yes it did get made

and I at one point was thinking I want

to take this movie because there was a

really cute guy attached to it you can

see where that's where my head was at

was let's choose a part because of a

cute guy

and then it was almost overnight where I

just woke up the next morning and said

you know what no because I would have

had to choose between the two

that I think I should choose to show

well thank God

thank God but but it is such a great

example of how one door closes another

one opens nothing is by coincidence in

this life I firmly believe that I think

that everything

happens exactly how it should

and like having an open mind and seeing

the lesson and everything

[Music]

um makes for a happier life too but

yeah it's crazy to think about that time

and now I mean pretty little lies became

in your own words the biggest show in

the world at one point yes I mean I

think

I mean if it's one two or three I mean

it's still the outcome is still the same

that your life

irrevocably changes

from that moment onwards

um

for better and For Worse one might

guess

I think

if you tell me why on both ends of that

yeah okay

I mean I

it was a dream job like I could

I I now had the success I had wanted and

the notoriety I felt valued and

appreciated and uh

um on a super in a superficial way for

bits and moments there were times when I

thought my ACT there were times when I

didn't feel like I was being utilized in

the right way I'm like I have so much

more to offer please let me you know

there are other characters in the show

that I wanted I wanted to be doing the

things they were doing but there were

times when I I felt like I could really

show

off my talents I guess

um I mean it it was the launching pad

for my whole career and and it's taken a

while outside of that show to get people

to see me in a different light and I

knew that when you're a part of

something that's that big people are

seeing you every week like people still

call me Arya on the street you know I

knew that it was going to be strategic

moves for years to get people to see me

in a different way and I feel like I'm

at this point now where people are

giving me those opportunities but I've

worked really hard for that I have taken

a bunch of different types of roles and

different types of characters post that

to get to like show to show myself but

also to show everyone like I'm not a

one-trick pony and I want to be doing

this and if I'm uh lucky enough to get

to do I hope I can do this the rest of

my life but um

it it helps me hone my craft

I

the fact that that show went for that

long is almost unheard of

like that just doesn't happen anymore

and I always laughed because there was a

couple people on the show where it was

their first job ever or their first

audition ever and the show went for that

long I'm like this is not normal by the

way but it but

it also posts that show because I've had

some

I don't want to view anything as a

failure but I've had things that were

maybe

viewed as failures post that and it kind

of

which I'm also grateful for because it

it gave me perspective of

you know life is full of ups and downs

and it will always be that way no matter

where I'm at in my career like people

aren't always going to like me or like

my work

every job I do is not going to be the

one that changes my life

um and I've also realized like that's

not where my happiness comes from

anymore my happiness is not going to

come from

I love what I do and I find so much joy

in it and I love creating and I love

acting in a really new cool way the last

couple of years but

it's always going to be a roller coaster

when we have those successes in life

when when the dream we have is realized

we I think before that we have an

assumption that it'll fix a bunch of

stuff right so that's we aim for it we

strive for it we get there and then in

some way it fails it makes you feel

worse yeah yeah so what didn't it fixed

everything everything it fixed literally

nothing if anything like there were more

problems it like expedited the all of it

right because my life was under a

microscope and

um I mean it definitely cranked up those

dials to 10 when it came to my

body dysmorphia myself my self-worth was

at an all-time low

um

I just didn't have the tools to how does

anyone navigate that experience I don't

know how you navigate that in a healthy

way

um and I look back now and I'm like okay

I guess I handled it in the best way I

knew how like I don't look back and

shame myself over it all it's kind of

just like

I was a kid and I was struggling but I

was struggling publicly but no one knew

about it so that was almost harder

because I was like dealing with all

these big things

but I never wanted to talk about it

because I was so ashamed

and now I'm now I'm not ashamed of it

which is why I can talk about it but did

you talk about it to anybody behind the

scenes what you were struggling with no

it was pretty it was pretty private

because I didn't want to be different I

wanted to blend in and if I talked about

having issues that made me a Target

I think people maybe knew of struggling

was there a Darkest Day a Darkest Day or

a patch where

you know I'm like where do where do we

begin uh interesting

um

I had many many what I thought were my

emotional Rock bottoms dozens

and so that was why it was so hard is

because I'm like Oh I thought we went to

the depths of hell like how do we

possibly how could it be worse and and

from the outside that was was crazy no

one would have known so it was like I

was everything externally didn't match

what was happening internally so then I

just felt like a fraud I was like this

isn't adding up and it's not real and

it's not right

I want things to match up in

look the same I just felt like totally

undeserving of everything that was

happening

a Darkest Day

yeah I mean I had many

but I'd always pull myself out of it

like if I have one thing I'm resilient

like I don't really give myself a lot of

that's not true I do positive

affirmations for myself all day these

days but but I know that my resilience

is what's

slingshotted me the other way did you

ever think about quitting

acting but during that period of between

16 and 28 when you left oh yeah yeah

yeah yeah I seriously well not maybe not

seriously because I didn't know what

else I was good at I didn't think I was

interesting I didn't think I was smart I

didn't like all of these things

I actually was like what would I do

um and so I I at times had the thought

could I do something else could I go

home after this

um but I never packed my bags or made a

call to someone and told them but but

but there were times in my

20s where I was just thinking is this

what I want to do but but then it became

about

it wasn't because I disliked acting I

loved it and I and I always knew I was

good at it but it was just how do I

manage my emotions and do what I love I

was like I don't know how to do that now

I know how to I mean I still have bad

days but I know how to handle it better

it's hard it's hard I I don't know it's

it's a constant

you know starting a new job

I really have to make sure I have my

plan in place for what helps me feel

safe

do you have a plunder if you would have

been overall happier for the last 33

years had you not been an actress

I think about that all the time what do

you think the answer is no you think you

would have been happier no I I mean

maybe

I would have had longer periods of

happiness but I do believe that where

I'm at now what I've gone through to get

the happiness I have now like this is

where I'm supposed to be and this is how

I'm supposed to feel

and I don't think I would have gotten

through that without the job I have or

the things I've been through

I know it sounds grateful to say I'm

happy that I struggled with addiction or

whatever it is but I am I I just think

that

in order for me to

feel whole and survive is to be creative

and I I actually

crave creating and and and acting and I

and I was there have been moments in my

life where I was scared that oh my God

I'm gonna have to keep doing this and

not know if I love it

and it was I did this show and the

moment where it all like happened for me

was the show I did called Katie Keane

short-lived another short-lived CW

Series I did I've had three

shows on CW that only went one season

it's kind of a running joke no

anyway whatever

Katie Keane New York it was the show

that made me fall in love with acting

because I

I don't I and I don't even know what

happened I mean it was a great show

great people so much fun living in New

York

but

maybe I stepped into my confidence more

I don't know I just feel grateful that I

can say oh God I like what I do because

that would be a bummer to like do all

these things and then say

and I could and that's the reality like

today I could say you know what I don't

want to act anymore and I know that

that's an option and is and I know that

I'm lucky to know that I have options

like I have perspective on that too

but I also feel lucky that I do want to

wake up and say

I want to go I want to go act today I

want to go work with these people and

collaborate

um did you have a life throughout that

that pretty little liar was there a life

outside of the show was there no

relationships and oh yeah socializing

and tons of failed relationships no I uh

yeah I had a social life

uh it was a lot of work we were doing

that nine months out of the year for

eight years but but yeah I I dated and

and it traveled and failed relationships

yeah oh yeah

yeah

I uh why did they fail I think

well some of them we were just young and

they're not supposed to work out but I

do think

I you know and I'm very careful to not

talk poorly about

people ever

[Music]

um

and I do also realize my part of the

equation I'm not I've never point the

fingers and say this person like I fully

realize why some of those crash and

burned because it was

you know hurt people hurt people that's

like a classic thing uh I just think I

was maybe attracting people that were a

perfect storm for my

new self-wife low self-worth chaos like

I was attracting

uh either people that had similar issues

as me and so it felt comfortable or it

felt like oh I can focus on

this issue or your issue and try and fix

them and try and fix them because it

gave me a one-up or you know have you

I'm sure you've read about like love

addiction like love avoidant love

addiction oh yeah like attachment Stars

yeah and I always thought I was a love

addict

because I just wanted people to like me

I wanted this guy to like me and

everything would be fine

but the truth is I actually think I have

fallen more under love avoidant because

when people get too close oop they're

gonna see me They're Gonna Know Who I

Really Am they're gonna leave so I'm

gonna blow this thing up before they

leave me

but I can tend to fall into

love addiction Behavior if they like out

avoid me does that make sense so if

someone is more avoided than I am

anyway so yes failed relationships but

but we the first model of love we learn

is our our parents no I totally get it I

I grew up thinking love wasn't safe or

safe thing or I thought it was prison

yeah or if love is this I don't want

that are you kidding me so I never

really had a model of what

a relationship should be

and and I

maybe because my parents got divorced

and I spent more time with my mom that I

was drawing in more people who were

similar to my dad you know there's that

element where are you now with my with

my dad with you with my relationship

yeah with on that journey of like

understanding love and how to form an

attachment with someone in a healthy way

yeah with the right person

I think

the only if I you know I'm single now

but the in order for me to want to be in

a relationship

it goes back to like meeting me where

I'm at and what by that I mean like I oh

I think that the type of relationship

I'm seeking out is with another person

who is whole and doesn't need me and

doesn't need this relationship to give

them an identity

um and I think that that is

where people thrive is when people have

really gone Inward and know their

strengths and weaknesses and know what

they have to offer and are willing

to grow and heal and evolve and

and I've never had that like I've never

had a relationship that felt

safe or like I could really show up as

myself

um

I do think that you know being sober is

really important to me and like that's

my number one priority because I know

that when I do that everything else is

fine so I'd love to find someone who

has an understanding of that element of

my life too I mean I'm so open to it and

ready but I also am not desperate for it

like I'm not needing because I like many

people used men and relationships to

fill a void like it's easy to get

addicted to people too and that's

actually the easiest it's like oh I have

a really cool new boyfriend like I can

focus on this for a year and not focus

on what I should be focusing on

um and now I just

yeah I just feel open and

whatever

is coming my way I'm ready for it I

really believe that

um life after Pretty Little Liars yeah

you referenced this earlier I I can't

imagine the situation where something is

everything it's nine months a year

working when you're not working you're

doing interviews about the thing

everyone stops you everywhere you go to

talk about it it's it's all consuming

and then

it ends yeah it was

weird it was weird and bizarre and scary

because that level of notoriety and fame

success whatever you want to call it

that is not really sustainable and will

I ever reach that again in my career

maybe who knows I don't know but if I

don't it's okay but because it was here

for so long for most of my 20s and then

when the show stopped and

things did shift like

I wasn't getting certain calls like I

wasn't being invited to certain things

people move on quickly right like people

just love content like they will move on

to a new show and and it was so scary to

be like where where do I forget fit in

do will people remember me and it's like

chasing this

high of whatever that experience was and

then I came to realize like that's so

exhausting like I feel like I'm okay now

if I were to just do jobs under the

radar for the rest of my life you know I

like I said I mentioned earlier like

having a couple of failed experiences

post Pretty Little Liars like really

gave me

kind of grounded me in

in a cool way I feel like I needed that

um was it you described it as a dark

time that the post PLL pretty little

lies yeah um phase of your life yeah and

that's because you've got like

I guess maybe you've got a I'm assuming

here but you've got to re-find out who

you are again outside of the show

it was that it was like

am I going to work again you know I

think we not we are I've had some

conversations with people in this a

similar position where

I wanted to work but you didn't because

people only want to see you as that one

thing and I

I'm also grateful for that period

because then that was when I got to

discover who I am outside of that who am

I outside of my job who are you

who I can say

that I

I've always wanted to

lead authentically and to show up

however I am at any given moment

whatever that looks like and I have not

been able to do that until recently I

feel like I am confident in what I have

to offer I'm comfortable with who I am

I'm a good friend I'm loyal

I'm honest to a fault

if you're in my circle have your back no

matter the situation I talk about the

hard [ __ ] I lead with my heart

I Believe In Justice more than anything

even if it's like I see someone cutting

someone in line like that's not right

I'm passionate as hell

and I do believe my intentions with

people are good and at the end of the

day I can sleep at night really well

because I like who I am

and it's just as simple as that I like

my choices

but as you say that's been a journey

right

yeah yeah you used the word earlier use

the word compassion to describe

you know you talk about that like

in a child work that you've done yeah

um

how do you feel about that person that

you that went through that Journey what

would you say to that person if they

were sat on a chair they were on a third

chair on this table yeah what would you

try and I uh I've actually done that

exercise where you write a letter to

your younger self

and um

I feel I feel so badly now that I

shunned her and like didn't I'm gonna

talk about myself

as a her and me this is me younger me is

her

I didn't give her a chance to speak up

like whereas now I'm like what was

hurting you so bad that you needed to do

that like I kind of give her the stage

to talk about her feelings

and I really truly believe that I was

handling it in the best way I knew how

at the time now I would handle it

differently because I have the tools I

have this like spiritual emotional tool

belt that if I'm feeling sad or whatever

I'm like okay we'll do this

but I didn't know I didn't know any

better and I was doing the best I could

and I am proud of

that

of my younger self because we went

through a lot like more things than I

could ever possibly say in a podcast and

so many people don't even know about

that part of me but it was

hard and dark and maybe I shouldn't have

even gotten out of it and I did and

that's so cool and I feel Brave and

courageous and

and I know that I went through those

things to talk about it why else do you

go through [ __ ] like you're you're

supposed to share your experiences

because it will reach someone

and um

I just compassion is the perfect word

for my younger self

when we I'm talking in hindsight we

often create the impression that

and I do this a lot that everything is

great now and that's just like not the

nature of life right life continues to

be a roller coaster

um what are the things now that you're

still you still work on oh boy I'm so

emotionally impulsive and responsive

like because I'm so

I guess the word is passionate but I

I really sometimes it's hard for me to

see all sides of the coin and like see

someone else's perspective I and I work

on that a lot

I