Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

>> The Joe Rogan Experience.

>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY

NIGHT. All day.

>> All right. Hello, Julia.

>> Hello, Julia.

>> Pleasure to meet you.

>> Yeah, I'm very excited.

>> So, you said you had questions for me.

We start with your questions.

>> Excellent. Um,

>> first of all, tell everybody what you

do.

>> Okay. Let me just change the angle of

this

>> just so folks just tuning in right now

like who is this young lady?

>> Thank you.

>> What do you do?

>> I'm a year younger than you.

>> There you go then. Then you're young.

>> Nice. Um what do I do? I'm

trained as a scientist cognitive

neuroscience and computer science and uh

did some AI stuff. Did some stuff with

the human brain in terms of trying to

understand how time works in the human

brain. And then I got really interested

in how funky time works in the human

brain like precognition,

>> which is of course predicting future

events in ways that we don't normally

think about.

>> That's how I found out about

>> that's you was the Popular Mechanics

article.

>> Yeah, I believe so.

>> Yeah.

>> And then a bunch of other stuff that I

looked at.

>> And then a bunch of other stuff. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> And then I got interested in just the

idea of ex what we call exceptional

human performance.

>> So um I actually don't think it's that

exceptional. I think people have these

capacities and they've been dampened

down and uh they're in us and they can

be developed and some people have them

just sort of naturally. I'm a person who

has some of them just naturally, not all

of them, but there are people all over

who have these different gifts and and

how does that work? And so that became a

question that was interesting to me.

>> Well, it's always interesting when it's

this this question is asked by an actual

scientist. So you approach it by let's

let's try to gather data. Let's try to

find out what we can actually show

because so many people have feelings

that there's something else. Like

there's you have intuition, you have

some sort of pre-nowledge of events and

some feeling of something. You're

thinking of someone and they call you.

Is that real? You know, that that kind

of stuff has always puzzled people. So,

it's always fascinating when someone

like yourself actually spends a lot of

time studying it and trying to gather

data and trying to show what's real and

what's not and what you can actually

show.

>> I agree it's fascinating. I'm not sure

it matters. So I mean my experience has

been that um sort of regardless of how

much time I spend studying it and how

much I see it and how much I can test

different controls to make sure it's not

this that or the other thing and that it

really is getting information from the

future or it really is telepathy. Um

people still kind of don't uh in the

science world tend to just ignore it or

it actually is actively suppressed. I

mean, there's some papers that I've

published that just won't get listed in

Google Scholar, even though they're in

peer-review journals with other articles

that do get listed in Google Scholar.

So, there's it's it's frustrating and

who cares because it's just an academic

complaining, but I'm also not an

academic. I also want to build things.

I'm into making stuff. So, I got my PhD

at these tier one research institutions

like Northwestern. Got my masters at UCA

San Francisco. I did my posttock at

Northwestern. So, fancy dancy

institutions. Um, so I learned a lot

about how to how to think and how to

write and how to do these kind of

experiments and I know what I'm seeing

and I keep seeing it and other people

who study the same stuff keep seeing it.

But it is um

it is inside of me or there's something

inside of me that wants to create things

with this. Okay, so this is happening.

People have these capacities. You know,

they're actually useful. What can we do

with them? And it turns out you can do a

lot

with them if you feel like you are

allowed to have them. If it doesn't feel

like it's verboten, if it doesn't feel

like shameful, which is part of the

cultural piece

>> or foolish

>> or foolish, which is part of the

questions I wanted to ask you.

>> Okay.

>> So, what I notice when you talk with

people is you're you're like you seem

like a tough guy, but you're really

sensitive. like you're an incredible

obviously an incredible listener and you

learn all these things and you're

putting together just this is my

impression you're putting together a um

kind of a map of the world like a map of

knowledge of the world through all these

different people's eyes

and my question for you is how do you

see culture shifting

because I think you're really sensitive

to it and I think you're kind of like

one of these signal fish that are at

you notice what's happening in the

environment and you're going to guide a

school of fish accordingly.

So do you think that the culture is

shifting towards

sort of better use of these

I guess exceptional or these natural

capacities that we already have or do

you think that we're shifting away from

it and we're going to run away in fear?

H that's a good question. Okay. So,

I think that because of conversations

like the ones that you've had and the

ones that I've had, the ones that are

available online, I think people get a

much deeper understanding of so many

different topics and so many different

things than has ever been available

through whatever you want to call the

mainstream media.

And when you have these inherent

prejudices in higher learning, whether

it's people that don't don't want to be

foolish, so they don't want to entertain

certain notions or they don't want to

accept certain things because it goes

against things that they've taught and

things they wrote about. We have a

problem of ego and ego becoming a wall

to gathering more information or getting

a better detailed map of the landscape.

And I think uh there's way more people

that um are

pondering these ideas and having these

conversations and thinking about these

things than has ever been before. And uh

I think that's one of the really

beautiful things about the internet. The

internet has made much more information

available

and many more people are thinking about

these things in ways that you know if

you were in uh an environment where your

career depended upon you following

certain lines and certain narratives,

you wouldn't pursue that because that

would be detrimental to your own

personal interest. Like if you wanted to

get ahead in academia and all of a

sudden you're talking about psychics and

premonition and you know people are like

oh Julia's a [ __ ] loon like why you

know but you're courageous and you see

value in these things and because you

can come on here and talk about it

instead of just addressing a class or

selling a book that's going to reach a

few thousand people.

We can have a conversation where 10

million people are going to listen. And

so then those 10 million people are

going to go to work and they're going to

tell their friends at work like, "Hey,

there's this, you know, you know how

that feeling that you get where

sometimes you know something's going to

happen and it happens like that might be

real." And then there was this lady, she

was on the Joe Rogan podcast and she was

and so that opens up people to this idea

that you don't have to worry about being

a fool because that's what a lot of

people are worried about. It's it was a

big hurdle talking about aliens, UFOs.

Like all my life, all my life, I've

always been fascinated by UFOs and

aliens. But I don't mind being a fool.

Like I I was fascinated by Bigfoot

forever. Kind of abandoned that for the

most part. But I like weird stuff. I'm

interested in it. And I don't I'm not a

person that needs to be taken seriously.

It's not my job. I'm literally a

comedian. Like you can make fun of me.

I'll make fun of me. it's fine. I don't

h it doesn't my my future doesn't rely

on people taking me seriously.

So I think having that ability to have

conversations

about all kinds of different things has

really changed the way the entire world

is discussing just reality. like every

everything about reality from

quantum computing to alien life to

international politics to the way human

beings misrepresent each other

purposefully for their own gains like

what is all this like and why why is it

taken so long to have so many

discussions about this so I think that's

if I have a purpose in this world it's

like I'm an antenna for that.

>> Yeah, I to I'm just clapping because

it's such a great purpose because,

>> you know, the reason I fell in love with

science was it's about discovery. It's

about not knowing.

>> It's about being foolish. I had this I

was just thinking today I had this

amazing high school uh bio biology

teacher who had us go outside and he

gave us these little note cards and he

said, "On one side of the note card, I

want you to write a question about your

environment. Look around, you know, the

plants or whatever. pick something, the

dirt, whatever, and write a question you

think Einstein would ask about this. And

then he said, "Okay, now flip it over,

and I want you to write a question that

like a two-year-old would ask if a

two-year-old could, you know, write."

And my favorite side was the 2-year-old.

And at the end, he said, "Now Einstein

was more like the two-year-old."

>> He said, "Einstein was full of wonder

and confusion and um uncertainty, and he

just asked questions and imagined

things, and that's how I want you all to

learn to be." And I was just like, "Yes,

>> that's a good teacher.

>> That was amazing teacher." And and so

then I when I went to graduate school

and I went in the world of academia and

I was like, there's all this pressure to

um you know, you write your grant uh

after you're you've done about

threequarters of the work so that as

soon as you get the grant, then you can

publish the papers that go with the

grant. So you're not really discovering

anything. are kind of talking about

here's what I already know but I'm

acting like I haven't looked at it yet

or and there's pressure to um follow as

you said follow the line of thinking

um for both funding and for your career

>> and you know I was told very nicely by

wonderful people who wanted to support

me um that if I took this stuff about

psychic stuff off my resume I would have

a perfectly good resume for academia and

I was like are you crazy this is the

stuff that's actually interesting why

would I want to take it off? But that's

what took me away from academia and made

me realize I I had to put one foot in

building things. I could leave a foot in

academia, but I had to I had to build

[ __ ] because um academia is so slow.

They can learn something and then 10

years later they're like do you think

it's true? And then 20 years later

they're like maybe we can make something

with it and it's like

but at the same time you have to be

careful. You don't get to just say well

I just know people are psychic and

therefore you know right screw it. So um

so yeah there's this dance there's this

dance there but when you were saying

this thing about

people people afraid to be foolish I

want I wonder how much it helps me

>> to come from a family of very foolish

eccentric people

>> I'm sure it helps a lot

>> because I'm not afraid to be foolish in

fact I just know that I am.

Well, I think intelligent, kind people

don't mind talking to people that say

occasionally say foolish things. Well,

>> or things that could be perceived as

foolish because they're willing to take

chances and look at these obscure topics

and strange phenomenon and just and not

not worry about the stigma that's

attached to these subjects that keeps

supposedly intelligent or serious

people, people that want to be

considered as serious people

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> from discussing.

>> Well, like when you said the thing about

um Bigfoot

>> Yeah. and and I laughed a little bit.

That was that was like a reflex laugh

from academia. So that's

>> that's a fun one. Bigfoot's a fun one.

>> It is. And I have friends who study

Bigfoot and other cryptids and and in a

in a scholarly way and and I had to

learn not to laugh. Like

>> it's like we have our little discomfort

and then we laugh because oh I would I

want to be taken seriously and stuff.

But you know, interestingly, the UFO

whole world got accepted into the

mainstream land of things that possibly

exist before the psychic world. But the

psychic world has been studied like by

the intelligence community, etc. since

openly, since like the 50s, right?

>> Whereas the UFO world was supposed to

be, oh, we don't care about that. And

then only recently has come to the four.

So, it's really interesting to see this

balance. They're both related and and

they're both have their own processes of

disclosure, but um it's just interesting

the culturally it's interesting to see

this instinct to be right

>> as as you called it. And I feel like

that's I was there's the PBS um

convention is in town right now in the

hotel where I'm staying and I and I I I

got to say I think that's still largely

a very leftleaning organization and I

was raised up in a really left-leaning

household. But the thing that really

pisses me off about the left is this

wanting to be smart and and proving that

you're smart. And the thing that pisses

me off about the right is wanting to be

right. And I feel like both of those

things fail.

>> Yes.

>> I mean, neither of them allows us to

just discover, okay, what's next? Like,

how can we actually how can we actually

solve the problems that are going on

instead of just wanting our team to win?

Yeah.

>> Or and so it's interesting to me how the

cultural change with

>> science also relates to our politics.

>> Yeah. I grew up in a very left-leaning

household as well. My parents are still

very left and um I think that there is a

real problem with ideologies where

especially in this country we're so

polarized we have a right and a left and

I think most people are kind of in the

middle somewhere you know and I'm I'm

certainly in the middle I'm like middle

left that's where I I kind of see myself

but if you like read about me I'm like

far right somehow or another which is

>> I know it's interesting I I'm I'm now

independent I'm officially independent

because I'm Screw it.

>> Yeah.

>> I I don't I do think most people are in

the center and I think we need to um get

clarity on that. You get to you get to

say something that's different from what

either side is saying.

>> Yeah. The problem with e either side is

you have to accept if you're going to

accept if you're going to join one of

their team. I had a bit about it in my

last comedy special that if you're going

to join their team, you have to believe

all the things.

>> Yeah. Right. And you have to kind of

display them perform like you're

performing.

>> Very good point.

>> Right. You have to you have to say all

the right words and if you say the wrong

words, you're canceled. And that happens

on both sides.

>> 100%. And you know, the right was always

complaining about the left doing it, but

now the right's doing it. They're

canceling each other about all kinds of

stupid things. And it's just a it is a

it's you know, Mark Andre's talked about

this that they display all of the

behavior that you get from cults.

>> It's the same thing.

>> Totally. excommunication.

Yeah. Extreme following of doctrine with

no deviation whatsoever. Everyone's very

performative that they are more in line

with the doctrine than you are.

>> Ew.

>> Yeah. And by the way, academia is a lot

like that.

>> Oh, it's very much like that. And that's

very disturbing.

>> It is disturbing because these people,

you're supposed to be open-minded

because how are you going to get to

truth? I mean, the idea is to get to

truth, right? Yes.

>> How are you going to get to truth if if

you've decided, well, that person's

asking this question, that's an

inappropriate question.

>> Yes. Yeah. And it's also there's this

thing about people being gatekeepers of

information. So like if you're an expert

in a very particular subject and someone

disagrees with that, people are like, I

am a PhD in this subject and let me tell

you about this and I know what's going

on like that. It's so irritating. And

actually that bothers me when I go on

shows and people say, "Oh, but you're a

scientist and you study this." And it's

like, yeah, but could we not rever me

for that reason? Could we instead ask

the question like, does she do good

work? Does she have interesting

thoughts?

>> You know, does this seem reasonable?

Does it seem like she's after the, you

know, moving towards the good? Those are

really the standards regardless of your

degree.

>> And so I it worries me that we put so

much reverence in scientists or

whatever, experts. And I also see that

there can be this problem where you go,

oh, experts are all full of [ __ ] And

then you know you have to get like brain

surgery and you're like I would like a

really good neurosurgeon.

So there's kind of both.

>> Oh 100% there's both. I think the

problem is human ego and the problem is

that even people that have like deeply

studied subjects the wanting the

reverence and wanting people to defer to

you wholly with no questions whatsoever

like as if you have the entire database

on whatever this thing this thing is

settled this is settled science we know

everything about it and that doesn't

seem to be the case very often there's

very few things that seem to be

completely settled And it's much more

interesting to me when I talk to someone

that their perspective is I'm a person

that has spent an inordinate amount of

time going over this stuff and this is

what I know. I might not know all of it,

but this this is this is what we know

and this is why we think this is what it

is and this is so instead of like having

this ego and I see it god I see it from

so many it's a very male thing too. It's

a very male ego thing to be like

the, you know, the dominant force of the

narrative, you know, that they're the

enforcer of the narrative and, you know,

very dismissive and very rude and

saying, you know, just insulting things

about anybody that deviates from it

instead of just saying this is why I

think this is the case and this is what

we've learned over the ears and this is

but having humility when you're dealing

with especially when you're dealing with

something like cognitive like anything

involving consciousness anything

involving the human mind it's so complex

there's so much going on and it's so

biologically variable there's so many

different people that have different

ways of thinking and their mind works

differently one of the more illuminating

things about doing this p this podcast

is having so many different people in

here and so many different

conversations. So many unique and

fascinating people, but they're all

different.

>> Yeah. Yeah. You're you're like you're

like tasting from all the different

flavors of humanity and and it's a

delight to listen to, but I I I sort of

want to know what it's like to be in

your brain as you start to so it's like

you're a sponge and you're soaking in

all these points of view. So, the model

that you're building, I just I wonder a

lot about what it's like to be different

people and and I imagine the model that

you're building of the world is really

well informed. Hey, Jamie, could you

turn down my um

>> Oh, you could do it. There's a little

thing right there.

>> Oh,

>> we're like professionals.

>> It's like a whole show.

But yeah, I I I think the model that

you're building could be put to some

really powerful use. So, I'm here to

convince you to run for president.

>> Oh, God. trying to get me killed. Julia,

how dare you?

>> No, I'm not interested in any job of in

any government whatsoever.

>> I like doing this.

>> Okay, I get it. But

>> what you said about it's a really male

thing. I think it's better said to say

um

>> it's a really um insecure male thing or

an insecure it's an insecurity thing

that happens more probably to men

because there's such a standard of

you're supposed to be alpha. Everyone's

supposed to be alpha,

>> right? And for women, there's not that

standard or you're not, you know,

>> right?

>> And so there's more insecurity because

everyone can't be alpha.

>> And what the heck is alpha? And so I

feel like I I I have a desire for

someone who has a sense of their own

like is secure in their own masculinity

and their own femininity, which I think

you have both. I hope you don't mind me

calling you out on that, but I I know

that you like have this reputation of

being like total guy, but you have this

I mean because you're a deep listener,

that's already a feminine trait. And so,

>> is it really?

>> Yeah. Oh, yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> I didn't know that. I never thought of

listening as being masculine or

feminine.

>> Listening is a deeply feminine trait

because you have to be relatively humble

to want to listen.

>> And humility is a feminine trait.

>> Yeah. No, it's just I don't I don't

think of it as a feminine trait.

>> Yeah, I don't think listening is a

feminine trait.

>> Yeah, maybe I'm wrong.

>> I think it's a kind

>> Women are generally better listeners. I

mean, that's

>> really

>> Yeah, it depends on if you're in a

relationship with them or not.

>> Depends on who you're talking to.

>> I don't know if that's true. I don't

know if that's true.

>> Let me see where I'm going to get in

there.

>> I think curious people, genuinely

curious people are better listeners.

That's what I think. And I don't think

women or men are genuinely more more

curious.

>> You're right. And I think that there's a

thing if you're always trying to prove

that you're alpha. And I think men more

susceptible to that.

>> Yeah.

>> Where you could not be a good listener

because you want to make sure you say

the right thing.

>> That's an insecurity thing.

>> And then I think there's more insecurity

among men because of those standards

that are ridiculous. And so maybe that's

what I'm talking about. But you're

definitely right. I can definitely think

of men and women who are both crappy

listeners and good listeners. So, it's

about the insecurity. It's about the

emotional maturity.

>> I think it's also a learned thing that,

you know, people have this desire to

show everyone how intelligent they are

and how dominant they are in any

particular subject. And it's one of the

most infuriating things about having

conversations where people aren't really

talking to you. They're just trying to

win whatever little verbal game you're

playing. They're trying to oneup you and

they're trying to

>> I've seen that.

>> Yeah. It's It's gross.

>> And also just like it makes you want to

leave.

>> Yeah. It's not fun. It's not a fun

conversation. Like

>> I love talking to people way smarter

than me.

>> It's fun. Like it I don't need like I

can't be the smartest person. I'm

friends with Elon. I'm definitely not

the smartest person. I know that. I'm

friends with a lot of people that are

[ __ ] way smarter than me. So, I'm

just curious and I I think uh the world

would be a lot better place if more

people were curious and if you embraced

it and not and just

>> squash that that insecurity that makes

you want to like puff your chest up and

>> see I don't think you can squash it like

I get I also think the world would be

better place if more people were curious

but I think the solution is I don't

think any squashing anything works like

I I think I think you have to work

through it.

>> That's a better way to say it.

>> Yeah.

>> Than squashing it, right?

>> Squashing it just means it's going to

come up later as garbage.

>> Yeah, that's Yeah. No, you said it

better. Yeah. It's really just

addressing why you're insecure. And for

a lot of men, um there's there's just

physical insecurity.

>> And the physical insecurity is a real

problem. But some of my favorite people

are martial artists. And one of the

reasons why is because they're the least

insecure. Everyone's insecure in some

way, but martial artists are dealing

with that insecurity literally on a

daily basis. So like say jiu-jitsu for

instance, if you're training jiu-jitsu,

if you go from white belt to black belt,

you have to get humiliated thousands of

times. You have to get there's no ifands

or buts about it. There's if you're a

white belt and you train with a black

belt, you're going to get humiliated or

>> dominated. You're going to lose. You

have no chance. And so by learning over

and over and over and over again that

you're not really special and it's

really just about the time you put in

and then about getting better and having

the ability to objectively assess your

position, who you are in this this room

of people that are trying to strangle

each other, who you are in the world

itself. And I think a lot of people

don't ever address that. And so they run

around trying to posture and pretend

they're something they're not. Pretend

they're smarter than they are. They're

more of an expert, a subject. They're

the one who should talk. You should

listen. You know, there's a lot of that

where whenever people say just shut up

and listen. I'm like, that's not I'm not

going to do that and I don't want to

talk to anybody that wants and I don't

ever want anybody to do that if I'm

talking.

>> Well, yeah, because then you're not

having a conversation. That person

doesn't exist.

>> Exactly.

>> You've just decided that person doesn't

exist or they don't matter. You just

you've asserted dominance in the dumbest

way possible, which is intellectual.

Like Yes. If you

>> It is the dumbest way possible. Sure.

>> And and the funny thing is culturally we

kind of think that it's the smartest way

possible.

>> Well, it's just a bunch of fools.

>> Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so what

>> fools with a lot of information.

>> Okay. But let's talk about what what a

better world would be. So in a better

world in a better world, if you're going

to assert dominance, you would like the

Marshall. What I love about martial art

is it first of all it's it's all mental,

almost all mental. And then second, it's

very similar to what happens when you go

through and get your PhD, right? You get

beaten down

>> and you realize you're not the smartest

person in the room and you're hanging

out with all these other super smart

people and then you got to learn to be

like, "Okay, that's not what matters."

So that's the good part of of going nuts

with school. But but there's this um

false information that it reminds me of

when I was at UCSF and I went to go see

this talk by this famous scientist. I

think he won a Nobel Prize. I forget his

name. But he was an [ __ ] and he gave

his brilliant talk, but I couldn't pay

attention to it because he was an

[ __ ] He was being rude to people who

asked questions. He was just dickish. I

mean, I don't know how else to say it.

Just like arrogant.

>> Yeah. And I walked out and someone said

to me, one of my mentors said to me, you

know, you have to learn to separate the

personality from the information that

they're that they're giving. And I said,

you know, no, I don't like he's giving

me all the information in his

personality.

>> Right.

>> Right. I don't need to learn to listen

to that. I need to learn to say, unlike

all of you all, I need to learn to say

I'm not going to hang out with people

and put myself in the presence of people

who are rude like that. That's more

important than their amazing intellect.

And I somehow

somehow we got to a place culturally

where we think you can be really mean or

dismissive or rude and arrogant. And

that's fine because you're winning.

And I feel like a better world would

acknowledge that. What's more important

is

love,

>> which is this connection where you

actually acknowledge there's someone

else there. even if you like think

they're an [ __ ] But still,

>> yeah,

>> you know, like I wasn't practicing love.

I wasn't accepting him, who he was.

>> But I was in a place where the

environment wanted me to just ignore

sort of the information I was getting

about who this guy was and just say,

"No, all that matters is his

intelligence."

>> Yeah. No, sometimes you can learn a lot

from people that are gross.

>> Yeah. you know, and it's valuable to be

able to put their personality aside and

listen to the actual information. But

still,

>> in that moment though, I was

>> you don't want to. Yeah.

>> Well, in that moment, in that moment, I

was like 24 and I was a woman in a field

where there are a lot of guys and I was

feeling like I have to have boundaries,

>> you know, I have to learn to have

boundaries. And then later when I'm, you

know, like now I'm postmenopausal and

you know how postmenopausal women are,

we have much more confidence.

>> You're not playing that game anymore.

>> Yeah. No. Right. Exactly. It's like now

I'm like I can listen to, you know, some

[ __ ] listen to what he's saying. But

at the time it's like no, like I have to

stand up for something that I think is

important,

>> right?

>> You know,

>> I I'm not saying I'm better then. I'm

saying I had that experience that made

me see that there was this level of like

sort of import placed on the intellect

and that had always been the case. My

family had always placed all this level

of import on the intellect and I just

kind of walked out of that.

>> Well, it has to be balanced. Like I

think putting all of the emphasis on the

intellect itself and ignoring the

personality is kind of like the

messenger is important. Like the message

is important, but the the messenger

sucks that that you know if if someone

was yelling out the most amazing

information in the world, but they were

singing it like a Slayer song. I don't

know if that's a bad example, but you

know what I mean? You know those death

metal bands where they just scream and

you're like, "Oh jeez, I got to get out

of here.

>> It's not my thing, right?" But

>> it could be like the most interesting

information, but the messenger sucks.

It's not fun to listen to. It's not

exciting. Or the messenger's arrogant,

or the messenger's rude, or

>> it ruins the message.

>> Yeah, you need both.

>> Human beings need to communicate. And in

order to communicate, we need to we need

to establish that we're just two people,

you know, and if you have some

information that I don't have, I want to

hear it. I don't want to like, oh, she's

saying too many smart things. I want to

say something smart to show I'm smarter

than her. Well, hold on there. You know,

there's a lot of that. And that's a lot

of that in academia because that is

their entire identity.

>> It's a chess game.

>> Yes.

>> Yeah.

>> But it's a chess game with pieces that

are stunted. Like they're not allowed to

freely move.

>> No kidding. Yeah, it is a cult. I mean,

that's the cult part. That's where you

leave and people feel sorry for you and

you're like, I have my freedom. I'm so

excited. And they're like, I'm so sorry

for you.

>> Yeah. It's social hierarchies. It's

gross.

>> Yeah. And you know, I mean, I think

that's going to exist whenever there's

ego, whenever there's these the human

dynamics of these bizarre creatures that

we are where we're territorial apes with

weapons, you know, like we're weird and

we're always establishing some kind of

dominance, whether it's intellectual

dominance or wealth dominance or social

hierarchy dominance. Like people love

that stuff. They love it.

>> Is it Do we or so I

>> They love to play it. They love to

pretend.

>> We love to pretend it. But do I mean do

we really

>> Well, that's why people name drop.

That's why people want to have the the

fanciest cars and the nicest watches and

things.

>> I know. But is that really making them

happy?

>> No, it's not.

>> So, I don't know that people love it. I

think people do it because they think

it's going to make them happy, but I

don't think they love it.

>> Yeah, there's something to that. There's

there's probably something that some

sociopaths feel if they show up with a

million-dollar watch and a

million-dollar car and they, you know,

pull up in front of a giant house. It's

bigger than anybody. It's like, "Wow,

me. I did it."

>> But I think Yeah. What

>> that's rare. I think that's rare.

>> Yeah. I think it's not lasting either.

And then there's also a bunch of people

that are on [ __ ] pills. They don't

even know what they like.

>> They're just running around in the the

fog of pharmaceutical cloud.

>> That's the way they're dealing with it.

So it's like like I guess if we see it

as like there's this big problem which

is that I call this the human problem.

>> No one knows how to be with themselves

or others in any kind of harmony like

>> right harmony.

>> This is we don't know how to get to

harmony.

>> Right.

>> Right. And so one way is for drugs and

one way is prayer and one way is

>> the big car and the dominance and one

way is you know being addicted to your

phone. I mean what you know none of them

work

>> right

>> but all of I mean that's not true I

think prayer works but but I think the

only one that works is love and I think

that's what prayer is about but um

earnest prayer but

we have to try I mean we're built to try

to get to harmony

apparently because we keep trying and so

part of me wants to say

I'm of two minds part of me just says

like we're trying the best we can and we

have all these faults

And then there's a part of me that says,

"And we can do better."

>> Well, we definitely can. And I think

that's one of the reasons why people

hunger for conversations because we're

all trying to figure out how to do

better. Yeah.

>> The human mind is one of the most

>> extraordinary things that's ever been

studied. And yet there's no guide book

on how to use it.

>> Because we still don't know. Do you know

how much we don't know? We know about as

much about the human mind now as we knew

in 1991 when I first went to graduate

school. I mean, in neuroscience, I mean,

the brain, we know a lot more about the

brain. We still don't know that much

about it. We're still missing some basic

pieces of like things like what's the

neural code? How do these neurons

actually communicate? How do we actually

learn? How do we actually represent

things in memory? But, but we know more.

But in terms of the mind, wow, we're

just beginning. I mean, I I guess I'm

differentiating the brain and the mind.

Like the brain is this like physical

chunk of stuff

>> that's related to the mind but the mind

is what we are doing

>> right

>> well the thinking feeling emoting

wondering all that stuff is mind stuff

and that's super mysterious

>> and super difficult to manage for almost

everybody.

>> Yeah. And again, no guide book. Like

you're giving the most complex

instrument known to man, which is the

human mind. And everybody's like,

"Figure it out."

>> And you're like, "Fuck. Maybe I'll

become a mooney. Maybe I'll go into

Scientology. What do I do? I have to do

something. I have to do some someone

knows. I know. I'm the one who knows.

Follow that guy." You know, it's like

that's we

>> do these 10 things and you'll be okay.

That's how cults get started.

>> We'll do those 10 things because we're

so nervous we can't figure it out.

>> Exactly.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Uh, have you ever seen a

baby be born?

>> Sure. Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, so have I. My own, but also I

was a doula for a couple friends who are

babies. And

>> you know, everyone should just see a

baby be born because

>> it's very psychedelic.

>> It's psychedelic. And it's also it just

it puts you in that liinal space where

um it's like you've seen beyond the

veil. You've seen the the border land

between life and death. Mhm.

>> And it feels to me like that experience

which is much more rare for people to

have now. Most people can can avoid

seeing a baby being born. Um but that

experience is and also seeing someone

die. That experience I think helps train

us in it is the instruction book for the

human mind. I don't know why I'm saying

that. I I look at you, you know, you're

wrinkling your brow and I'm like also

why am I saying that? I never

>> No, I'm only wrinkling my brow because

I'm listening. It's like the face of

someone who's always upset, but it's not

true.

>> No, I I I don't know why I said that.

Like, I've never had that thought

before. But occur. I guess I was looking

at this little like you've got this

little like idol thing on there.

>> Oh, that is um a death whistle. That's

an Aztec death whistle. Don't do it. You

Last time we did it, the pandemic

started.

>> I got really close enough.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. And with the headto virus thing

going on, don't blow it.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. It's there's a meme online cuz my

friend Brian Ken was in the podcast

studio and he blew this Aztec death

whistle like literally was like a week

before the [ __ ] pandemic kicked off.

It was way too close and the meme was

Brian Allen kicking off the pandemic

with the Aztec death whistle.

>> Okay. Well, I didn't blow it.

>> Yeah,

>> I saved everybody.

>> Do you know what Aztec death whistles

are?

>> I imagine it's really scary.

>> It sounds horrible. And they would play

them at night while their enemy was like

camped at night. And so they would haunt

them so they couldn't sleep.

>> They would stand on the mountain tops

and and make that noise.

>> Wow.

>> And it it's very high pitched and it

carries

>> like a crying baby.

>> Well, no. It's very It's like demons. It

sounds like demons.

>> Like people scream and you just think,

"This is the last day of my life."

>> Scream. Aztec soldiers will blow while

charging into battle and during human

sacrifices. But how does a whistle make

that horrifying sound? When air is blown

into the tube, the airflow splits into a

big and small chamber, each making a

different noise you're about to hear.

>> Click here to see me try the world's

loudest.

>> Did that guy survive this video?

>> I don't know. He might not even be real

in this world. That might be AI.

>> Well, that's true. So, no wonder I was

thinking about like the veil between

life and death because I was looking at

that thing and there's something that is

like a reset, you know, when you um when

you see a baby be born or you see

someone die,

>> it's like a um

it's like you get to what matters and

it's and it's not whatever the dominance

thing and it's not the insecurity thing

and it's not the

it's not any of that. Yeah,

>> you know, so I think that's the

instruction book. And so we're sort of

given these little resets that allow us

to get in touch with what it really

matters. But the more we get away from

them, you know, in the modern world, um

maybe the fewer instructions we have, I

don't know. Never had that thought

before.

>> Yeah. Um, I I think it would benefit

almost everyone to do something that

takes you out of your own thoughts. And

um, I think that physically difficult

things are the very best at that. Like

yoga is one of the very best things at

that because it's very physically

difficult to do. It it requires a lot of

willpower and concentration while you're

doing it. You're balancing yourself.

You're sweating. you're straining and

because it's so difficult, you can't

think of anything else other than it

while you're doing it. And I think that

cleans your mind out. And that it purges

you of all this weirdness that's inside

of you that is constantly battling with

everything around you and allows you to

just be.

>> Yeah.

>> Just exist.

>> Yeah. Yoga, I mean, child birth is very

physical. Dying is very physical.

>> Yeah. But the thing is, you can't

voluntarily do that every day.

>> No, you can't. You can't. But but I do

sort of think like child birth for women

who who go through it or are lucky

enough to go through it

>> um is kind of like boot camp for men. I

mean, it it really it really

pushes you to your limit

>> and then

puts you in an altered state where

>> Oh, for sure. You just had a human come

out of your body. Now it's alive and you

love it more than anything.

>> Yeah. And it brings this like incredible

I'm looking at this UFO guy behind you.

It brings this incredible self-trcendent

experience of like whoa,

>> right?

>> This is not about me,

>> you know? And so, yeah, same with people

who play team sports. I was never one of

them, but I hear that that experience

>> happens.

>> Yes.

>> Or like when you're practicing a musical

instrument. Well, I think anything

difficult I think doing when I was

talking about martial arts, you could

>> martial arts will help you in that

regard, but I think kind of anything

that's hard to do gets you out of your

head and helps you and just de and

getting an understanding that

>> whatever you're doing in life, if you

concentrate on it and focus on it and

and you'll get better at it and that

gives you confidence and an

understanding of kind of how the world

works. And then you could also apply

that to being a person, you know, like

you're you're not the same person you

were when you were 20 years old, right?

Why? Because you're better at being a

person because you've lived a lot.

You've had a lot of experiences. You

made a lot of mistakes and you're

constantly constantly practicing and

learning, you know, and I think other

things that you can do other than just

being a person will enhance your ability

to be a person.

>> Yeah. Being a person who is applying

yourself to something.

>> Yes. My my martial arts instructor had

this thing that he told me when I was

very young. He said that martial arts

are a vehicle for developing your human

potential

>> and that

>> I think but I think that could be guitar

playing that could be tennis. When I

used to teach remote viewing, we used to

call it a mental martial art. It it's

anything that's hard

>> um on which you have to concentrate that

puts you in that space of flow.

>> And the flow means like you know you

know that Mahali chickep mahal idea I

don't know if I pronounced his name

right but this idea of timelessness and

you're just sort of having to surf

whatever is happening. Mhm.

>> And that could happen it could happen in

any field, right? Whatever whenever you

have to apply your whole self to

something then what's it's so ironic

because you apply your whole self to

something and then what that allows to

happen is that you become selfless. Like

you're almost like a tube,

>> right? You're not thinking about you

anymore. You're thinking about the

thing.

>> Yeah. And there's neuroscience to back

that up, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I think anything difficult

there that I I feel that when I practice

archery, I feel that when I play pool, I

feel that when I work out, anything

difficult where you you you lose

yourself, but in doing that you like you

could you have a better understanding of

yourself, which is

>> Yeah.

>> odd.

>> Yeah. And it's almost like you come into

consciousness more.

>> Yeah. I'm really fascinated by the

remote viewing and I want to get to

that, but I want to start with like how

did you begin

studying this stuff? So, you're involved

in neuroscience. You're, you know,

you're trying to pick which lane you're

going to really pursue all your

interests in. How did you get involved

in this idea of premonition and psychic

ability and that there's a real

something there?

Yeah, I um I sort of hid it from my I

hid my agenda from myself. So really I I

discovered, you know, later in life.

Yeah. Because when I was a kid, uh my

first precognitive dream that I remember

was when I was seven and um it was very

clear. I dreamt that my friend I knew

which friend Eane would what would

happen? She would lose her watch. Where

would it happen? On the playground. And

then the next day that happened. It was

very specific, you know, it wasn't like

you don't have to be metaphorical about

it. What does it mean that Shane lost

her watch on the playground the next

day?

>> Right.

>> And so

>> did you tell your parents?

>> Yeah. And they said my mom so my so my

so my very eccentric um family would

always talk about dreams at the

breakfast table. My mom is a therapist

and a learning disability specialist. My

dad was a physicist. My sister's an

artist and we would all talk about

dreams. And so I would I mentioned this

and my dad, the physicist, says, "Well,

that's a coincidence." And my mom, the

therapist, says, "You should get a dream

journal and write them down." And so I

did that. And um

>> your dad just dismissed it as a

coincidence.

>> You know, he he has come around.

>> That's a very specific coincidence.

>> It's three three factors. And I always

like to say if you have two or more

factors, it's likely precognit. just the

one lost the watch and then she loses

her watch.

>> She did just get her watch. She was we

were seven years old. She got her watch

from her father. You know, I could you

could predict that as someone who's good

at figuring out what kids do is that

they might lose the watch, right? So,

that could be a coincidence. You have to

think about all the possible things that

could happen to a seven-year-old and the

watch that they just got. Losing it is

up there.

>> Yeah. But you thought about it the day

before she lost it.

>> I dreamt it the day before she lost it.

>> It Yeah. So he did dismiss it as a

coincidence, but we also had ball

lightning and like weird orbs in our

house and he also dismissed that as not

actually having happened.

>> Wait, you had ball lightning in your

house?

>> Yeah, we were in this old farmhouse in

Libertyville, Illinois where I grew up

and we lived with my grandparents there

and um and uh ball lightning came inside

the house and my mother stood up for it.

My mother said, "Ed," my my dad's name,

you know, "Didn't you see that lightning

zipping around the house last night?"

Lightning. And my dad said, "Um,

that couldn't have happened."

>> Did he see it?

>> Of course, he saw it,

>> but he just wanted to see.

>> But he didn't have an explanation for

it.

>> What does your dad do?

>> He was a theoretical physicist when for

his dissertation. He was at University

of Chicago. He he discovered or or or

showed somehow the electron layer on the

moon that there's this like atmosphere

of electrons on the moon.

And um

>> how can he say that that couldn't

happen?

>> So the one of the reasons so people are

so complex with the reasons they go into

particular fields and my experience with

physicists my dad included is they tend

to go into this field of physics because

the whole job of physics is to simplify

everything into a few equations. Right?

Let's like there's the funny there's the

I don't know if it's funny but there's

the standard physics joke of like all

right let's figure out the volume of a

cow. you know, let's let's just estimate

it. It's a sphere, you know, and so it's

like you cut off the legs and the and

and the heads and the tail and all of a

sudden you're just calculating a sphere

which doesn't give you the volume of the

cow. And so I think there's a desire to

simplify everything and I think there's

a desire to control things. Um, and many

many many physicists have OCD and have

control issues. my dad had severe severe

OCD. And so in his in his mind, um it

couldn't have happened because it would

all his circuits would fry

>> because he didn't know how to explain

it.

>> And my mother just stood up for it and

said, "Well, it did happen and you saw

it and I saw it and it hit the edge of

my room and then went out and there was

still like the brown mark where it was

burned in the corner of the room." So

like we had plenty of evidence. Um,

so there was stuff going on and there

was a there was this pushpull with my

mom who just uh believed in the primacy

I guess of or the importance of

experience like we saw it and uh the

pull from my dad who believed in if you

didn't understand if you didn't have a

theory for something it couldn't exist

and so I was living in that. So what I

did was I kept a dream journal uh sort

of the rest of my life. I I still write

every morning my dreams and started to

notice that I was really good at

precognitive dreaming and it would

happen again and again and again and I

would have um experience we can get into

later the weird school stuff but

experiences at school that reminded me

that I had this capacity and um

then I hid it from myself when I

realized I wanted to go to graduate

school and actually be a scientist.

So by by which I mean I just sort of

said well all of that stuff's crap even

though I was still having those

experiences. I had to kind of split off.

This is a thing that you have to do if

if you think okay I have to ride the

academic train right and the academic

train says like I'm going to do hard

science. I'm going to you go to the best

neuroscience school. I'm going to you

know

>> right? And then by the time I was in my

late 20s

and um I was in my second graduate

school getting my PhD at Northwestern, I

started to remember and the reason I

started and it's not like I had really

forgotten, but it's like it just wasn't

allowed to be real. I started to study

timing in the auditory system because I

I was into understanding how the

auditory system managed things in time.

And then I started to ask myself, why am

I so interested in time? Why am I so

interested in the nature of time and how

it works? And then boom. Oh, right.

Because I keep having these precognitive

dreams. There's obviously something we

don't understand about how time works

because these are so consistent and

clear. And at that point, you know, I

knew that was happening because I knew I

wasn't making it up. I could look at my

journal and I could see it. So that's

when I started saying, "All right, you

know, I'm old enough to choose my own

path and I'm going to start asking these

questions."

And when you started asking them and

trying to apply it in uh using the

scientific method, how did you first

attempt to do that?

>> Well, I called I I was a I I'm kind of

fearless when it comes to cold calling

people, especially scientists, because

very few people call scientists. So, I

called up Dean Raiden. I had read some

of his work from the Institute of Nordic

Sciences. I called him up and I said,

"Um, hi, my name's Julia." And I was

thinking of going into this field and I

think pre-cognition is real. And he's

like, "Oh, okay." And uh and I remember

where I was sitting uh when I called him

and uh he said the thing you have to do

is get your PhD in a field that is not

this. So finish your PhD and then as a

posttock start to investigate it. So I

did. I finished my PhD while I was

studying all this other stuff and

understanding the field. And then as

soon as I got into my posttock years, I

found a sympathetic adviser at

Northwestern in the cognitive

neuroscience program and um and just

said I want to start studying this

stuff. So I at the same time I had one

foot in more mainstream stuff about

timing and the auditory and the visual

system and then the other foot was in

this purely basically psychic stuff

trying to understand it and I made an

experiment. Um there's a foundation

called the Bial Foundation in Portugal

and I wrote I wrote an application to

them and they funded my postoc so I

could study the sense of being stared at

um with like closed circuit TV monitors

and I could study how the skin

physiology you know skin conductance or

sweat changes when um just before you

get a response right on a random like

psychic task and so that that's kind of

precognition or presentiment and then I

just pulled from I got really interested

in presentiment because I saw that it

was real and I also saw there was a big

gender difference that was fascinating

to me which is that before men got their

first trial correct and this is just a

guessing game so that you know it's

randomly selected their skin conductance

would go crazy like they just won the

lottery and when they before they didn't

get it correct or they were incorrect it

would just kind of like peter along so

they were anticipating at a very high

what the future was going to bring,

whether they were going to win or not.

Whereas women practically, but not

totally, showed the opposite. But their

skin, but but regardless of what

happened, whether it was correct or

incorrect, they were much lower than

men. So men were really excited about

the future correct thing. At least their

physiology showed that. So I got

fascinated by that and pulled together a

bunch of um worked with a couple other

people at different institutions and

pulled together 26 studies over the past

or the prior I guess 40 years that

looked at this kind of physiological

change that predicts essentially a

random future event and uh just analyzed

it.

>> Do you have a theory as to why men have

that response and women don't?

>> You know, I kind of think it's cultural.

Well, you were talking about the

importance of winning

and I think

I mean that we know that gambling

addicts are twice as likely or maybe

three times as likely to be men as

women.

>> Really?

>> Yeah. And

the importance of winning, well, I don't

know if it's biological or cultural, but

in any case, the importance of being

alpha or the importance of winning, I

think it's a big deal.

It's a big deal to the to men.

>> Do you think that goes back to tribal

war?

>> I think it goes like back to like

chimpanzees.

>> Yeah. Which do tribal war.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I mean, it kind of makes sense

that the importance in winning is

literally survival or death.

>> You will get kicked out of your little

chimpanzeee colony.

>> Not only that, the ability to predict

things that are going to happen would

probably keep you alive.

>> Yeah. Like if you were running into an

ambush, you're like, I don't like this

or something's wrong, something's off,

or now's the time to go, like I feel it.

>> Mhm.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. So those combined, but you know,

there's other tasks that aren't about

winning that are just about is, you

know, are you going to see a picture

that's scary versus a picture that's

neutral where women and men both show

the effect. But in this particular task,

it was just like very clear. And then I

replicated it in heart heartbeat. So

that first one was in skin conductance

and then I looked at heart rhythms and I

replicated that same thing where men are

like oh yeah here we go

>> and women are like d um it doesn't if

something doesn't matter so much to you

in the future I don't think it matters

so much to you in anticipating it.

>> Now here's the question about this

stuff. Do you think that this is an

emerging phenomenon in human

consciousness or do you think it's

something that has atrophied that was

available before language? So

>> it's very clearly available. I mean

before language.

>> Okay, that's what I think. I've been

thinking that a lot lately. And one of

the things that I've been thinking is

>> one of the things that we've noticed

like I think phones and the internet and

the computers are an amazing thing. You

can acquire so much information. You can

learn about things. You can encounter

new people. There's so much stuff that's

great about the internet. The bad thing

is a lot of people have a much shorter

attention span now because of social

media. And then now they're

demonstrating that through use of large

language models, a lot of people are

actually getting dumber. Yes. Or I've

>> noticed it already.

>> Well, it's they've studied it and they

especially children, they're they're

actually less capable of solving

problems themselves because they always

turn to a computer and have the computer

solve a problem. And the more I think

about that, the more I look at that, I

go, "Well, what is language?" Language

is a technology. And language is a

technology that allows you to say things

with your mouth and I know what you're

thinking. Maybe before that existed, we

had an understanding of what we were

thinking. You know, maybe there's like

some sort of a weird psychic connection

that we all believe that people have

with each other in some way or form and

some of it's you could demonstrate some

of it, you know, but most of it is just

intuition and feeling. And I always

wonder like is this atrophied? Like

before we could talk, when we were just

these bipeedal homminids with, you know,

larger brains and all the other mammals

and these weird abilities to be curious

and figure out things and develop tools,

like what was what was consciousness

like before language, before written

language? You didn't have a word for dog

and tree and like what was it that was

going on in your head? If you don't like

you think in your head, I think in my

head in a voice.

>> Yeah. You know, and they say some people

don't have an internal voice. You don't

have an internal voice.

>> I have pictures.

>> That's interesting.

>> Yeah.

>> Really?

>> Yeah. I sometimes wonder about that if

that's why I can I can do the remote

view.

>> Only pictures.

>> Feelings.

>> Oh, I have a whole dude in my brain.

>> Yeah. I I've heard that most people have

that.

>> No, I don't think it's most people. I

think it's kind of Well,

>> is it your voice? Like

>> Oh, it's not me. No. I mean, it

>> is like your dad or

>> No, no, no.

>> Is it Is it a guy?

>> Yeah, it's like a general.

>> Oh,

>> it's like someone's going, "Shut the

[ __ ] up." Like, "Go to work. Go do this.

What are you talking about? Why you

being such a bitch?"

>> So, he's kind of a jerk.

>> No, no, no, no, no. He's right. Always.

My voice is never wrong. My inner

self-correcting voice is always correct.

It's always right. It's always like it's

uh I mean if you wanted to get really

crazy you would say it's like a guardian

angel in your brain that's stirring you

steering you in the right direction. But

if I've done something wrong in my life,

made a mistake in my life, said

something I shouldn't have said. That

voice berates me.

>> Wow. So that seems hard.

>> No, it's good. It's great.

>> I mean like but you got to get over it.

Well,

>> but that's how you learn. Well,

I mean, let's talk about that.

>> Okay.

>> Because when people go through hard

things, one way to learn is like

berating.

>> Uhhuh.

>> Um, but that's kind of like not as

sustainable as forgiving yourself and

deciding that you can figuring out how

you can do better. I mean, is berating

really the best?

>> I think you have to feel pain from

mistakes.

>> But don't you already feel the pain?

>> Yeah. You got to really feel it.

>> I don't like making mistakes twice. And

the best way to not make make a mistake

twice is have the first one suck so bad

that you never want to go through that

again. And if it doesn't really suck,

make it suck in your head.

>> But does it already

does I feel like it already sucks

without a guy telling you that it sucks.

>> Well, it's not nec I mean, I'm kind of

exaggerating. It's not just that, but

it's like it's not even like you're you

it's not poratives. It's not, you know,

insults. You're a [ __ ] loser. It's

like you [ __ ] up that you did this.

You were supposed to do that. You you

were supposed to get something done. You

didn't get it done. You were supposed to

do this, but you [ __ ] it up. Like,

don't [ __ ] it up again. This is what you

did wrong. Don't do that again. I get

it.

>> This is what you could have done right.

>> It's like your conscience.

>> It is like a conscience, but it's very

strong. It's very loud.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And I have to learn how to

sometimes ignore it and just calm.

Otherwise, I won't sleep.

>> Right. I need that be too harsh.

>> Yeah. But it doesn't like I don't hate

myself or anything like that. It's not

that. But it's just like

>> honest.

>> Yeah.

>> It's just an honest assessment of

everything that I've ever done

>> ever. Yeah.

>> That sounds That's like instant karma.

>> Yeah. In a way. Yeah. But it works. It

works. And I think it made me makes me a

better person. I'm better than I would

have been if I didn't have that

self-correcting mechanism. There's this

poem by this mystic and I forget her

name but at the end of it she says um

at the end of the day I always bring to

my mind all the people that I was kind

to and then I can fall asleep. And so if

you know that's another way to do it,

right? If you know that

>> at the end of the day you have to look

in the face

>> Yeah.

>> of all the people that you were kind to

so you can fall asleep then that kind of

makes your day

>> that. Yeah. No, definitely. And I think

I always tell people that being kind and

being generous is kind of selfish.

>> Yeah,

>> because because Exactly.

>> Because you feel better.

>> Yeah, you do.

>> You feel better about yourself. You feel

better about life. You feel better about

everything. It's actually a good thing

to do to be kind and generous. And that

that's like

>> counter to like you shouldn't think that

way. No, you should just be kind and

generous. I I agree. But also, you

benefit from it. And I think the more

people understand that you benefit, the

more people are likely to behave in that

way and it'd be better for everybody.

>> So back to the language thing. So this

actually to me relates to the language

thing. If you develop language,

um you are more aware of of what you're

thinking in a certain sense if you think

linguistically.

>> Um but you also

in a way sort of dampen down as as you

say and I agree with you that there's

this there's a there's a trade-off

there. you dampen down the the sort of

instant knowledge of how people around

you are feeling like the telepathy

thing. So I keep looking at this skull,

right?

>> And so what we know I don't think but I

don't think we've lost it. So you you

had this idea that we've lost that

psychic stuff. I think it's absolutely

there and I think it's

neuroscientifically defensible that it's

there, but that language actually

suppresses it. So

>> yeah, atrophies it.

>> It doesn't atrophy it. It's like you can

actually use um so okay so there's this

cool result from this guy in Bayrust his

name's Morris Freeman and he's a

neurologist there uh up in Canada and he

noticed in his um stroke patients that

if they had lesions here so their stroke

kind of messed up this area here left

frontal orbital area um of the brain in

the cortex um that they seem to be more

psychic like he didn't know how to

explain it. So he did an actual

experiment where he tried to get people

to move with their minds an arrow on a

computer screen. So that there was no

mouse. There was no way to move it. They

just had to look at the arrow and say

move to the left or move to the right

and wish it to happen and using their

intention. Right? So the people who had

the strokes there were able to do it

statistically significantly.

Um people who had the strokes over here

were not able to do it. So, can I pause

you here? What was actually moving the

cursor?

>> So, he had a random number generator

hooked up to the direct. So, the cursor

was kind of like shaking

>> and the random number generator would

make it deviate to the left or to the

right. So, the person was effectively

changing the random number generator.

>> How often?

>> Um, enough so that it was statistically

significant.

>> What is statistically significant?

>> So, what you would do is sure you would

have a control. So you have the the try

period where you say to the person try

to move it to the left, try to move it

to the right. And then you have the

control period where you say, you know,

read a book, like you're not trying. And

you compare the amount the distance and

the amount of time it's spent in the

intended direction to the reading a book

time. And if it's you can, you know,

there's statistical tests you can use to

determine whether it was spending time

in the intended direction more often

when it was intended.

>> But but how much more often? um a number

that's statistically significant. So I

guess so it's like imagine

>> 5% 10%.

>> Oh I forget what the actual quantitative

number

>> but that would be interesting to know.

>> I totally would. I just

>> and whether or not it would change with

different humans.

>> I I agree. But then he then he

replicated it instead of looking at

stroke patients. He looked at uh used uh

transcranial magnetic stimulation

>> which turns down activity. So he put

that over here. So he's putting that

over the left area

>> and to turn that down and again they

people these are not people have had

strokes just regular people you and I

they were able to do this with their

minds so it's just sitting there what

was his explanation is that the front um

uh left orbital frontal area is we know

that it inhibits the right uh frontal

area and we know that the right orbital

frontal inhibits the left and his

explanation is this stuff is going on in

the right hemisphere or at least is

dominated by that. And um when you

suppress it, it you're not as psychic.

And when you release the suppression,

you are more psychic. And it's just

right under the surface. It's right

there.

>> And so when I when I work with

non-speaking autistic kids, it's um it

feels to me like that's a pretty good

explanation of what's going on. They're

not activating this part as much. I I

not that I've proven this. This is a

hypothesis and and and it's not I'm not

the only one with the hypothesis, but

they're not activating this part as

much. We know that because this is where

speech is over here, right? These areas

uh in the left. And so therefore, this

area can be a little bit more free. So

the psychic stuff is coming out.

>> Huh. Well, that's one of the weird

things that they've demonstrated about

certain psychedelics like psilocybin.

You would think that it just like turns

on your mind and all the synapses are

firing. No.

>> Dampens. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Which is very weird.

>> Yeah.

>> Because it makes you think like what are

we doing with the mind or the brain I

should say, not the mind.

>> Well, and the brain is related to the

mind in ways we don't understand. And

then it's sometimes not related to the

mind, right? Like in the psilocybin

results,

>> you're having all these experiences,

>> but the brain is dampened. Yeah. What's

going on? And there's the filter theory

of consciousness says, well,

consciousness is kind of like out there

almost like a radio signal, and your

brain's kind of filtering it.

>> Yes. So that then you have this simple

like oh pick up the cup and say the

words and you know you can kind of live

your life without realizing that person

over there is having this experience and

that's going on and then in the future

this will happen. So it makes sense to

me that it's like our conscious minds in

order to just deal with daily life have

to be kind of stupid

>> and then

>> because otherwise you'd be overwhelmed

by all the data and possibilities

you're in the universe and

>> it's so much data. multisellular

creatures all around you and subatomic

particles like

>> well yeah and then and that's and and

when we're working with um I work with a

whole team that works with non-speaking

autistic kids like in telepathy tapes

and when we're working with them like

they get distracted by that stuff like

they'll say I you know I'm distracted

they when I say say I mean they're you

know typing on a letterboard or a

keyboard

>> you know there's spirits in the room or

you know I'm I'm thinking about what you

did earlier today that I didn't know

about but I do know about cuz I'm

telepathic, you know, and so it's like a

lot of information that makes it pretty

hard to be in the here and now.

>> Has have any of those non-verbal

autistic kids ever wrote something down

where they couldn't possibly have known

it?

>> Yeah.

>> Like what?

>> Oh, I can give you many examples. In

fact, um, do you want to I have a video

of that.

>> Oh, sure. Okay.

>> I have to walk you through the video.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. Do you have that over there?

>> I don't know.

>> I gave you like 18 things. Oh, I give me

a second. Sorry.

>> Okay. So, the So, let me explain the

context.

>> Okay.

>> So, um uh I met my research team

partially through people I had already

worked with and partially folks who uh

Kai Dickens, creator of the telepathy

tapes, introduced me to.

>> I had her on.

>> Yeah, I know. It was a great show.

>> Very interesting.

>> And so, I I wanted to ask that question.

Can we use rigorous methods to have

folks write down non-speakers or

spellers, whatever we want to call them?

Um, I think non-speakers or spellers are

preferred. Um, non-verbal kind of