I do a $ 106 million launch. My mom got

to see it, which is really cool. She

dies four weeks later.

It was just like, how am I supposed to

show up right now? So, I write these

tweets as notes [music] to self.

>> I'd never heard you talk like that

publicly before.

>> Yeah. I'm like, what do I need to hear

right now? And I was like, I I'll write

that, which is like I just have to keep

fighting. And [music] people will judge

how much you love someone by how much

you choose to suffer. I don't think the

person that you lost probably wants you

to suffer. One of the lessons that I've

learned from an entrepreneurship

perspective translated into life is we

[music] will get these moments of

dissatisfaction or discomfort and be

like I'm life sucks. I need to change

something. But my emotional discomfort

is not an adequate reason to change what

I'm doing. And so there's all these

other skills that are still required to

be successful in business. But if I can

compress 14 years of business advice,

the first thing I would say is you have

to decide whether you care more about

your future than what other people think

about your future. Like someone's

version of you has to die because

everything in the very beginning of

entrepreneurship comes down to one thing

which is fear. And it makes sense to be

afraid and it's because we want

certainty, but the only way to know is

to start. The second thing I've learned

is that the fastest way to build a $10

million business is not the fastest way

to build a $und00 million business

because focus and [music] patience are

the two enduring competitive advantages

because they're so antihuman. And so

this is where entrepreneurs will

skyrocket. And I'll unpack that concept.

So how are you thinking about your

business, the world of AI?

>> I'm a big AI advocate, but people are

using AI in the wrong places. like

outsourcing thinking and decision-m to

AI is a really bad decision because you

will just get dumber. This is the best

asset I've got for now. So, I want to

keep it as sharp as I can. Finally, this

is like the the absolute raw truth I

could possibly give, which is the single

best financial decision that I ever

made. And that [snorts] is

this is super interesting to me. My team

given me this report to show me how many

of you that watch this show subscribe.

And some of you have told us according

to this that you are unsubscribed from

the channel randomly. So, favor to ask

all of you, please could you check right

now if you've hit the subscribe button,

if you are a regular viewer of the show

and you like what we do here. We're

approaching quite a significant landmark

on this show in terms of a subscriber

number. So, if there was one simple free

thing that you could do to help us, my

team, everyone here to keep this show

free, to keep it improving year over

year and week over week, it is just to

hit that subscribe button and to double

check if you've hit it. Only thing I'll

ever ask of you, do we have a deal? If

you do it, I'll tell you what I'll do.

I'll make sure every single week, every

single month, we fight harder and harder

and harder and harder to bring you the

guests and conversations that you want

to hear. I've stayed true to that

promise since the very beginning of the

D of Sio and I will not let you down.

Please help us. Really appreciate it.

Let's get on with the show. [music]

Alex, I I feel like we have to start

with AI because it is front of mind for

both I think my audience but also for

entrepreneurs that I speak to at every

step in the journey whether they are I

was with Adara who's the CEO of Uber the

other day um in New York and he that's

what the conversation was about AI but

then I speak to startup founders who are

trying to build a software company and

can't find a moat that is defensible

those conversations are about AI. What

is your how are you approaching this as

an entrepreneur? How can we use AI to do

the things that are the art the normal

functions of the business at a way

better, way faster, etc. What I'm seeing

a lot especially with founders or people

are starting out is they're using AI to

do a lot of dumb things really fast and

they're trying to build companies that

the models are going to swallow up

pretty much immediately anyways or

already have for super users and it's

just going to like become easier. And

the question that I would ask for the

entrepreneurs who are you know AI maxing

right now and again I think it's very

good to adopt new technology is are you

making more money

>> just the very simple are you making more

money now and even though you're token

maxing [laughter]

>> and spending all this tokens like are

you making more money and I had a a

business I looked at the other day they

had 11 VAS that were doing I can't

remember some sort of like data cleaning

work

>> VAS

>> yeah virtual assistants so lowkilled

labor overseas that was doing work and I

think it was something in the

neighborhood of like $11,000 a month is

what they were paying for these 11 VAS.

And they were doing a good job and it

all worked. And they then spent $350,000

to try and create an AI system that

would replace what these 11 virtual

assistants were doing. But that means

they spent three plus years of costs on

what these 11 virtual assistants were

doing. And it wasn't even the constraint

of the business. It was just a process

they could automate. Not that they

should automate it because it's not the

thing that's limiting their growth. And

so they still need more customers and

that wasn't the thing. This was like

part of their their quote process or

something, but that wasn't the

limitation. They didn't have enough

demand.

>> People are using AI in the wrong places.

They're trying to start AI businesses

when they shouldn't start AI businesses.

They should use AI in their business.

They're trying to advertise as AI

businesses when you should just

advertise the thing that your customer

cares about, which is the solution to

their problem, the outcome. None of

that's changed. But because you got

really excited about it, you think your

customers are going to be excited about

it. But most people are a lot of people

are afraid of AI. Um, so it's not

necessarily even a positive and it's not

making you more money, which is the

final question.

>> When you listen to someone like Elon

Musk, he says that work will become

optional in in the in the future. And I

sat here with a couple of experts on AI.

Then they kind of explained to me what

it is. And from a very simplified

perspective, this machine that has these

neural nets in it, which have lots of

parameters, basically connections like

the human brain does. And when they

train it, the parameters become

reinforced to the the ones that made the

right decision. And the ones that made

the wrong decision are like basically

cut out. Again, I'm simplifying this.

>> These brains, these digital brains are

getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

Um, it's it's like almost inconceivable

to me based on what they've said to me,

these area experts, that at some point

it isn't able to do a lot of the

cognitive work that people are currently

doing. My question really here is like

where does the value remain in a world

where intelligence

is cheap

>> and abundant and um higher one could say

and also in a world where robotics are

coming over the horizon too like where

is the value I think stakes for example

AI can give all of the recommendations

in the world but someone has to own the

decision

>> and so as of [clears throat] right now

maybe it will in the future AI isn't

isn't a citizen of any you know any

country it doesn't pay taxes and so

somebody has to be responsible

>> it's a liability Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> And upside on on the flip side. And to

take this into different domains from

the media perspective, imagine Jimmy

said Mr. Beast has a video and like Mr.

Beast is going to replace by AI. He's

not going to get replaced by AI because

if he had a video that said $5 million

and the $5 million wasn't real and the

Lamborghini wasn't real, there'd be no

stakes.

>> Yeah.

>> Like chess, right, has become more

popular now than it's ever like than

it's been in recent history. But robots

can beat humans at chess.

>> Mhm. But no one cares.

>> I think about the F1 as well. You'd

still want Lewis Hamilton in the car.

You take him out the car, you stop

watching F1,

>> right? So humans want stakes. And so

there's the compensation side of it,

which is that somebody's going to be

responsible. Someone has to risk the

money. Somebody paid for the token.

Somebody owns the LLC. Someone is is

owns this. And so there is value in the

judgment and the assumption of risk and

upside.

>> Mhm.

>> Which can be money or just the

responsibility. From a media

perspective, we still have to introduce

stakes into the into the show. Now, of

course, there's going to be the fiction

world. They're going to be much harder

hit. But if you're trying to do a

reality TV show, the real part has to be

there.

>> One of the um things that I find really

interesting about you is you spend a lot

of time thinking and in a world of

artificial intelligence, a lot of people

are now deferring their thinking to

these frontier models like chatb or

claim or whatever. And um we've spoken

about this before, but one of the things

we both agree is that knowing the right

questions to ask, clarity of thought,

critical thinking, making the decision

is going to be one of the things in a

world of AI that's critically important.

So my question to you is like how are

you having good ideas cultivating good

ideas and giving your space your sort of

mental space to be able to think about

problems?

>> Mhm.

>> What's your practice?

>> I'll I'll take this from two different

angles. So first is I think outsourcing

thinking to AI as of right now is still

a really bad decision if you it's like I

think anybody who's used AI for any

period of time knows that you can get it

to agree to anything. And that's

frightening when it comes to making

decisions. And so every time I'm like

you know I think it has gotten a little

better. I'll just give it like a really

obvious decision to make. I'll go,

"Okay, let's open up uh Claw. Let's open

up OpenAI. Let's look like let's open

all of them up and I'll ask the same

question to all three and they're just

all over the place." And so I'm like,

"Okay, this is still back to my

judgment." Right? Number two is that if

you do delegate your decision-m to it,

you get dumber. Now, there's all this

research. I'm sure you've had people in

the podcast who talked about it, and

it's like I for sure like this is the

best asset I've got for now, so I want

to keep it as sharp as I can. Do not

delegate the hardest work you the

hardest thinking work you have because

you will just get so weak so fast. A new

idea that sprung into my mind over the

last I'd say three to four months that

I've kind of been chewing with is this

idea of what happens when you go long. M

>> so long-term thinking and how you build

differently today if you just extend the

time horizon and then how you can like

beat competition just by like instead of

thinking in terms of okay you know

founders they always think in terms of 5

years and then exit but what happens if

you think in terms of like 50 years what

are the different decisions you make in

terms of the foundational blocks

>> and this is why I have these blocks cuz

I saw you do something on YouTube with

some blocks before

>> could you explain this idea of sort of

long-term thinking in terms of

foundations

>> we do this exercise in person with

entrepreneurs I think it's so powerful

which is if I were to say, "Hey, build

me the tallest tower using a series of

blocks." If I say, "You have 5 seconds."

You're going to you're right here,

right? And that's that's all you got.

And you're like, "Oh, it's time. Hands

off." If I said, "Okay, now let's assume

we had a little bit more blocks than I

could build in in 5 seconds." And I

said, "Okay, what if I said you had 5

minutes? Would you build it differently?

What if I said you had 5 days? What if I

said you had 5 years?

>> And you have unlimited blocks,

>> right?" Yeah. And so what happens is the

foundation completely changes based on

the height of the building because of

the time horizon you're thinking in.

>> Yeah.

>> I had a mentor tell me this um a long

time ago and it like really stuck with

me which is the fastest way to build a

$10 million business is not the fastest

way to build a $100 million business.

>> Even in the fastest way to build a

million dollar business is not the

fastest way to build a $10 million

business. Like you could probably build

a oneperson agency to a million dollars

a year pretty quick. One client,

>> right? Yeah. It's just like it's just

you could do it really quickly. getting

to a hundred though, you you think about

it differently. You would. And so I

think um to your point, one of the still

outstanding competitive advantages that

you can have as an entrepreneur from a

thinking perspective is just thinking

longer.

>> Yeah.

>> It's really been front of mind to me.

It's funny cuz when I started thinking

about, do you know why it is? It's

because I told myself in this season of

life

>> Mhm.

>> that I was going to do the business that

I'm running now, which is our holding

company called Steven.com forever. And I

immediately noticed that I made a

different set of decisions. I started

thinking about the factory I called it

which is you know Elon's example of it's

building a prototype is easy building

the factory that builds the cars is 50x

harder. I started obsessing over the

factory which in in part in this analogy

could also be seen as the foundations

that we lay to make this durable over

the long term. And then speaking of Elon

I look at the decisions he made with

both SpaceX which I'm an investor in and

Tesla where he was like you know I could

have bought the batteries from Ford but

I'm going to make a completely new

battery from scratch. you know, um, I

could have used other people's

electricity chargers, but I'm going to

build the entire charging network across

the United States from scratch.

>> And this is someone who was thinking

long term. And what happens then is they

have the most durable moat 7 years from

now. And and that's so this is that

becomes the value of the business. And

actually, it was all a byproduct of just

thinking over a longer time horizon.

entrepreneurs and startup founders as

you know we like rush to like get the

exit raise as much money as we can

>> and it looks like you're you're in an

unstable building there. Yeah,

>> it looks like that

>> strong wind, right? [laughter]

>> I could blow that over.

>> Even during the exit process, if it's a

fast, you know, company, it's like

you're kind of like just please stay,

just everything stay fine. No one leave,

you know, like no big accounts go away.

Like you're just like holding your

breath for 6 months and being like,

[laughter] please just go through. And

then if it goes down to this for like a

week or two and they're like, hey, why

are the billables down? You're like, uh,

no, it's a it's it's a momentary ble. It

was expected. did was actually in our

did I not send you the updated forecast?

[laughter] Like it's a whole thing. Um

and I'll do it with the drawing because

it might be it might be a little bit

easier. But like if you were to build a

hundred story building, you'd have to

dig way deeper. You'd have to have a

much you'd have you build with different

materials going up. And so there's a

hundred decisions that get made that if

you're doing a hundred stories versus

one, [clears throat] you would you

choose differently. And so where it gets

really tough is that people will they

want to have it all. And so they say, I

want to have the speed of building a

one-story building, but then they get to

one story and say, well, actually, I

want to get I want to have a 10-story

building, but the foundation wasn't

right. And so this is where

entrepreneurs will they'll do this.

They'll they'll skyrocket here and then

they and then they plateau.

>> And [clears throat] then sometimes,

unfortunately, the correct step is that

you have to take two steps back, rebuild

the foundation, and then it goes up

again. M.

>> And so I think to your point, focus and

patience are the two enduring

competitive advantages because they're

so antihuman.

>> Yeah. So antihuman. So anti- Instagram.

I've got no announcement to make this

month because I'm doing boring like

hiring.

>> Like Basos like the the decision I still

think about this like the decision that

he made that he was going to say like

I'm going to have a logistics company be

my competitive moat. He's a like he

started as a bookstore online and to go

from there to like no we're going to own

the trucks and the warehouses and be

better at warehouse and delivery than

anyone else.

>> That's what we're going to do with our

online internet business.

>> Like just but like who can unseat Amazon

right now? Really tough. What's

interesting as well is that that

particular moment there where the

entrepreneur gets this they they come to

people like me and you in the street and

they say

>> they are I can't get past your

bottleneck. Yeah.

>> What is it that they should have done?

So many entrepreneurs come up to me,

they might hit, I don't know, 500k

revenue, a million revenue, and they

come up to me and they go, I don't know

what to do. How do I get to 10 million

from here?

>> Yeah.

>> And I think in part what you're saying

is they they should have made a decision

earlier on to build a slightly different

type of company from zero. I'll say what

the million-dollar business owner is

missing when they're trying to get to 10

is what they would have done differently

is they would have stayed longer in the

product market fit phase or trying to

make sure that the customers who come in

keep wanting to spend money with them

which they either do periodically. So

like if you buy a soda that you like,

you keep buying it. It's not like you're

on a subscription but you just buy it

regularly. On the other hand, there's

subscription revenue which is truly

recurring uh like your Netflix

subscription, whatever. But they know

that when that customer comes in contact

with the business, they're going to stay

and that money is going to keep going,

which is what allows it to stack. And so

if we think at the most basic level, if

every time you get a customer, they

never left, then the business will do

nothing but grow.

>> It [clears throat] will either stay the

same or it will grow whenever you get a

new customer, it just keeps growing. And

the difficulty of the the the $1 million

entrepreneur is that getting to a

million dollars, you can do really

quickly or 10. And I know that the the

world is like, I can't believe that. I

promise you, you can do it if you just

learn enough skills. Um, but that can

happen really quickly because it just

doesn't take a lot of moving parts to

make it happen. Getting to a hundred or

getting to a billion dollars in revenue,

I haven't gotten to a billion yet, but I

I feel confident I know what we need to

do. The million-dollar entrepreneur is

trying to fit a billion dollars of new

sales in in one year.

>> Mhm. [clears throat]

>> And that's the problem is that at the at

the end of next year, because all the

customers they signed up to make their

million dollars are gone because they

aren't good enough, they have to go back

to the market market and sell and get

another million dollars of customers. So

they think, "Oh, if I if I want to get

to $2 million a year, I have to go sell

twice as many customers." Which is true,

but if we had to compare two companies,

let's say we have company A and company

B. All right, we got company A, company

B. They both are selling a hundred, you

know, new widgets a year. Okay,

let's say company B loses all of the

hundred, but they want to double because

it's an entrepreneur. He's like, I got

to grow. And so he sells 200 people year

two. Well, then let's say he's got $2

million in revenue, and he's got $1

million revenue here. And let's say year

three, uh, he sells 300 units, but he

lost all 200 again because he has no

stickiness. And so he makes $3 million.

Okay, cool. [snorts] Now, let's say this

company A sells 100 year one, they make

a million dollars. They keep all 100

customers. Okay, but let's say that that

company keeps the same number of people

they're selling new. So 100 new

customers come in this year, but they

keep their old hundred. So now they also

have 200 customers and do $2 million.

And then year three, they keep their

same 100 and then the 100 from year two.

So now they have 300 total customers

because they got 100 new and they have

three million. So both of these

businesses on paper,

your entrepreneur friend comes to you

and says, "Hey, I've got a $3 million

business and I've got a $3 million

business. Which one do you invest in?"

>> Mhm. [clears throat]

Now you and I do this every day. And

we're like, "All day we [snorts] do this

one, not this one." Because next year

he's got to go and sell 600 new

customers. Now, where this gets, you can

start seeing this in the financials

because I can tell you that the cost of

getting 300 new customers costs

significantly more than the cost of

getting a 100 new customers and having

200 customers that are existing and

still paying you.

>> And so, you're going to see that in the

bottom line getting compressed and this

is where, you know, growth at all costs

becomes a problem.

>> But for this entrepreneur, he spent the

time to figure out how to get all 100

customers to stay. Now if he encounters

your distribution or my distribution and

then all of a sudden we say great now I

know that I can bring this thing 10,000

new customers then this thing becomes a

billion dollar year business because we

solve the most important part first

which is that the revenue stays and so

when people build in a rush they don't

build a good enough thing and so as a

result you scale really quickly and this

is where knowing marketing and sales can

be dangerous because the better you are

at marketing and sales the faster you

can grow revenue but you get to a point

where you you have a certain velocity of

sales I can only sell 100 people or 200

people or 500 a thousand people a month,

whatever it is. And at that point, you

either have to always be seeking more

distribution because you have a hole in

the back of your bus, but the moment the

sales stop, the business craters. And I

would say that that is more common than

the alternative, which is that you

actually have a sticky business.

>> The other thing people talk to me about

when they come up to me in the street,

when they hit that moment where they're

doing about a million in revenue, is

they say, you know, my customers love

me. They keep coming back, but I've ran

out of time. Basically,

>> yeah, this is an interesting one because

a lot of times if I have the same

response where someone says, hey, I'm

running out of time. The first question

I'll ask is, "What's your margin?" If

they have really thin margins, they

can't afford to get help. That's the

symptom, but not the root cause. The

root cause is either that their offer is

incorrect in that what they're offering,

the price and the terms of their

delivery are too low compared to each

other. You're offering too much for too

little, [clears throat]

>> or you don't have a marketing or sales

motion that allows that value to be

demonstrated to someone. So, they'd be

willing to pay a premium.

>> On pricing, then how do you think about

pricing? Is it a subjective thing or is

it an objective thing? I do I go look at

the market and see what everyone else is

charging and then decide that or is it

what I feel like I deserve? [laughter]

>> I think what we feel we deserve matters

the least in that in that

>> I think it's all about what the customer

is willing to pay. And so one of the

hardest parts for for newer

entrepreneurs is they sell out of their

own wallet.

>> What do you mean?

>> And so it's like if I have somebody

who's really good at fixing cars,

they're like, "Well, it's not that hard.

You just, you know, do a little screws

here." Like I would I wouldn't pay

anybody for that. Like I do it for free.

It's like, "Yeah, but I don't want to do

it, and I would pay you a lot to do it

cuz I don't want to fix my car." And so,

because it's been easy for you, you

think it's easy for everyone. And

because you think it's easy for

everyone, you're not willing to charge a

lot for it.

>> And so, they get into this vicious cycle

of undercharging and having not enough

margin. And then as a result, having to

do more of the work and then if they get

more work coming, they don't want to say

no. And so, then they basically fill up

their entire plate. that they have no

excess capacity but that they can't they

don't have the time to train anyone they

don't have the time to interview they

don't have the time or or the or the

cash right to to afford the next person

and so usually when someone's like I'm

overwhelmed if I say do you have a lot

of margin then either yeah you're

running 70% margin dude like hire some

help if they don't then it's two or

three steps earlier where the offer is

wrong the sales motion's wrong which

typically they're mispriced

>> do you get it all the time where people

say to you um you know Alex I tried to

hire someone and they up and so I

can't I can't trust trust anybody to do

it as well as I can and the clients love

me.

>> I think it's ego.

>> Yeah.

>> I think we want to be special and I

think we like to be needed and I think

that

it is not the business's job to solve

your emotional needs.

>> Mhm.

>> The business's job to serve the

customers.

>> Mhm.

>> And so we are not as unique as we think.

If you could go back in time, you could

teach yourself in a tenth of time

because you know all the mistakes that

you made and the right things that

actually ended up working. So it's like

great. instead of taking 10 times as

long you did to learn it the first time,

go back as though you were teaching it

the right way to somebody else.

>> And so you can collapse the time it

takes to teach someone how to do the

job. And most times what founders are

looking for is a unicorn, right? They're

like, "Okay, uh, I have two employees

and I do everything. And so I need to

hire someone who's just going to be like

me and just do everything else." It's

like, it's not going to work that way.

And so I use this little analogy that I

like, which is, so we have our our horn

of the unicorn. This is going to be so

bad. Here we go. So, we've got our

[laughter]

All right. Here we go. We'll give it a

little hoof. Maybe a little some tail.

Here we go. And here we go. And we need

to have some some sparkle, right? Cuz

it's a unicorn special. Okay. Let's go a

little donk there. But they're trying to

replace themselves with a unicorn. But

there are no unicorns. And we know this.

And so they go through interview and

interview and then they never find

anybody because they can't find a

unicorn. But if you're like, "How do I

find an animal that's got a horn?" Well,

you could go find a rhino. Okay, I've

got a rhino. They've got the horn. It's

like, okay, and then I need a horse.

Well, I can go find a horse and then I

got to find the sparkle. So, I'll get

some fireflies for the sparkle and then

I'll get a horse for the horse. And so,

just like that, instead of saying, "Oh,

I someone has to live my exact life and

have gone through the exa exact same

trial and tribulations to figure out all

the unique things that I know." It's

like, no,

>> they try to find in one person what they

can more easily find in three.

>> This is relationship advice as well,

isn't it? [laughter]

>> Right. Demanding your your partner uh be

all things to you,

>> your coach, your uh you know, your guru,

your therapist, your biggest

cheerleader. Yeah, it's exactly that.

It's it's just and I think in some ways

there's an ego element that I think is

very reinforcing which is that I'm so

special, no one can do what I can do.

And I think that's a very attractive lie

that we like to believe.

>> I guess there's also inherent in that um

insecurity and fear that you see in

these early entrepreneurs that if I hire

another person, I now have the

responsibility of paying them. Right now

it's me, it's safe. I can control this.

Um, but if I bring on other people,

they've got mortgages and families. So

now, now it's terrifying. So, a good way

to justify my fear to myself is by

saying, "Look, I tried. I can't trust

anybody. I couldn't find anybody good.

>> I guess it's just going to have to be

me, myself, and I."

>> And I think if that's what you want,

like, go for it. Yeah. I just like I I

think I think there's I think there's

going to be a lot more solreers, you

know, in the in the coming future. There

already are. I think it's it's a goal

question. What do you want?

>> What mistakes did you make when you

started hiring?

>> Oh, my bar wasn't high enough.

>> Okay. I think at the most basic level

like what is the job like if you remove

everything else what survives and I

think holding the standard survives

because if you're the one responsible

then you have to be the one who

determines what is good enough.

>> It's [clears throat] my view that in

every given department the person who's

highest up should have the highest

standard and if somebody ever gets to a

point where they have a higher standard

for ACU than I do they should run it not

me.

>> There should be a button just down below

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And if you're not subscribed, please

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Thank you so much. Have you seen a

change in the types of questions that

you're being asked? Because because the

world has changed, people are more

interested in personal branding or

business or whatever else. Are people

asking you new questions?

>> No, actually, I don't think. Yeah.

>> What are the questions that you get

asked? I get asked a lot of like, "Hey,

I'm thinking about doing this this

thing. What do you think?" I'm thinking

about starting this kind of business.

I'm thinking about starting a podcast

agency. What do you think? It doesn't

matter what I think. [laughter]

I'm like, and so I'll just ask the next

question, which is like, well, what have

you done so far?

>> Why'd you ask that?

>> Well, because the answer nine times out

of 10 is, well, I mean, I haven't I was

just thinking about it. I'm like, okay,

well then nothing's happened. what's

going on there with those people that

come up to you and they say they're

thinking about something but they

haven't done anything about it.

>> I'm guessing that they want to talk to

me about business stuff and so this is

the only business related thing that

they can talk about and so that's

probably why they talk about it or they

bring it up. Um or they want to feel

like in some ways it's kind of like

procrastive procrastination or that I'm

going to somehow give them one answer

that's going to like finally get them

over the hump of starting. But most

people start because one starting feels

like this very amorphous thing when when

like

I was about to say like has there ever

been something that you don't know how

to do?

Well, whenever I approach something that

I don't know how to do, it always feels

amorphous. It's like this big thing and

I don't know where to start. Like how do

like how do I grab onto a piece of it?

And so having gone and attacked like

these amorphous things like start a

business which actually means nothing.

You have to break things down to much

smaller steps of action. That's why for

me the most basic thing to start a

business is like get an LLC,

[clears throat]

>> open a bank account, have the ability to

process money, and then ask a stranger

if you can do something for them in

exchange for money. As soon as you do

those four things, congratulations,

you're a business owner. You've already

beaten like 95% of people who and you've

also changed your title from

entrepreneur to entrepreneur. And I

think that is one of the most mo just

like um when when a customer buys from

you versus just consuming your free

stuff, their identity completely

changes. They're now a customer which

means they're far more likely to

purchase uh future things from you than

somebody who's not bought something.

That's why you know ascensions and

renewals are much easier than getting

somebody to buy the first time, right?

And so I think to the same degree for us

as entrepreneurs or people who aspire to

be an entrepreneur, it's like go make

the first dollar and then as soon as you

have that taste of like oh this isn't I

I actually grabbed the corner of this

thing. I I I understand. And I just got

to get them to give me money to do

something.

>> Or I can build something and then have

them buy it from me and then I have to

figure out how to build more of them,

right? If it's a thing. But like that's

it at the most basic level. And

everything else is just is is confusion.

If you could go back to the starting

blocks and whisper something in Alex's

ear when he was starting up advice that

would have made the journey easier, more

profitable, whatever. What is what are

the sort of layers of advice you would

have given him at this as starting

blocks? [sighs and gasps]

>> So I've actually thought about this a

lot. If I went back in time and I saw an

older version of myself, if he appeared

in this room right now, let's say 20

years from now, is looking at me,

my hope is that he would say nothing

because it would mean that it worked.

Now, if I if I was going back and let's

say that I I I hadn't taken the step and

I hadn't been able to to make the jump,

what I say in that instance um

is you have to decide whether you care

more about your future than what other

people think about your future.

Someone's version of you has to die.

It's either your desired version of you

or someone else's desired version of

you. And the thing is you're going to be

with you a lot longer than they are. I

think everything in the very beginning

of entrepreneurship comes down to one

thing which is fear and justified. It's

it makes sense to be afraid. Like

there's a lot of risk. There's a ton of

unknown. There's so much stuff that you

don't know. But the only thing I can

also say is that it also puts you in the

exact same position as every other

person who started entrepreneurship.

They didn't know. And the only way to

know is to start. and to have faith that

you will not know the way up the

mountain, but as you walk up the

mountain, the fog starts to clear. And

the fog will always be there, but you'll

always be able to see the couple steps

in front of you. And so, your

responsibility is to only take the steps

that you can see in front of you. That

is it. And then once you take those

steps, the next steps will become clear.

And I think that's where there's an

obsession with knowing the entirety. And

and it's because we want certainty. We

want to know that if we do all of these

things, it's going to work. And you

don't. You want certainty from a world

that will give you none. And if you were

uncomfortable with that,

entrepreneurship might not be for real.

>> Yeah.

>> But I I even say that and I almost I

almost I almost regret saying that

because I was so riskaverse when I

started like people see the content now

or they see you now and you're so

confident and and great on podcast and

like but I'm sure the first podcast you

did, you like look at it and you just

absolutely cringe, right? I had a video

that I put out that was like the first

content that I made that I was like

reacting to my own first content and

it's horrendous. It's horrible. But the

thing is is that you have to be willing

to be cringe.

>> You must embrace cringes. You will not

be cool. It will not look good. You will

suck and everyone will know you suck and

you will know you suck.

>> But again, it's do I care more about

their version of me or my version of me?

And am I willing to be a work in

progress or am I unwilling to do it

because I want to keep my current

station in life? But the thing is is

that you're at a local maximum and

there's a desire in you probably if I'm

talking to my younger self to be at a

higher maximum than I am right now. feel

like I'm capable of doing more, but I'm

so afraid of risking this tiny little

bit that I've built for myself. But the

the the reality is that the only

guarantee that you have of all the paths

in front of you is that you stay on the

current path, you will not get what you

want.

>> Mhm.

>> So there is a chance that you get what

you want if you move, but there is zero

chance if you stay. And I think those

were some of the thought processes that

actually got me to take action was

knowing that I for sure guaranteed 100%

would be dissatisfied with my life if I

had not taken the shot. and then playing

out plan B with excruciating detail. And

I think that's also one of the big ones

for fear is that like fear only exists

in the vague, never in the specific.

Also, so does confusion, right? So the

fear is I'm going to do this thing and

I'm going to fail. Fail's not specific.

And I'm and then everyone's going to

hate me and then eventually I'm going to

get ostracized and die. Like we

catastrophize everything because we're

evolutionary beings, right? We're we're

we're mammals. But if you really think

what does failure like what does failure

even mean? I I I ask someone to buy and

they say no. Is that failure? What if I

ask another person? What if I ask a 100

people? Okay. Well, what if I ask 100

people, all 100 people say no? Am I

allowed to change what I'm what I'm

offering? Yes. Okay. So, you get another

100 people and maybe one of them says

yes. Okay. But even in that period of

time where you had the hundred people

who all said no to you and let's say you

quit your job and so you have no income.

Okay. What are what are the options

available to you? Can you talk can you

go and sleep on a friend's couch? Can

you go back home with your tail between

your legs? Well, it's only till between

your legs if you stop trying. If you go

home and say, "Mom and dad, I want to

save up some capital so that I can I can

extend my runway so that I can go after

this big goal. Mom and dad might be

cool. It might be friends. It might be

or maybe 10 friends going together." And

and because I split a bedroom,

>> so I had a house with six people in it.

Um and I split one of the bedrooms with

another guy. I paid 400 bucks a month

and I had a mattress on the floor and I

was never there. But it was just like I

tried to keep my living expenses as low

as possible. And I think one of the big

ones especially is that um people are

unwilling to sacrifice their short-term

lifestyle and appearances in order to

achieve their long-term goal. And so

they're handcuffed to their lifestyle.

>> And [clears throat] so you'd be

astonished at how little you can

actually live on if you try to live on

little.

>> This goes to back to the long-term

thinking argument as well, which is like

if you think about your status in 10

years versus today.

>> Yes. And I'm I'm willing to take this

dip.

One of the things you said was really

interesting and I it dawned on me that

most people might not realize this about

people like you, which is that you said

there's uncertainty all the way up. Now,

I imagine imagine an 18-year-old

entrepreneur listening to Alex Mosi.

They're going to be thinking, "Oh, he's

got everything figured out all the way

up." And he's no longer living with

uncertainty, fear, confusion, ambiguity.

He's no longer having to think hard

about how to solve a problem because

he's got all the answers. But actually,

as you described it, in my head, I I

imagined all of these this sequence of

almost neverending doors that all just

have a cryptic message on on them. And

you imagine you go through one door and

there's 10 more and they all [laughter]

have you go through one, okay, this was

the right one. And then there's 10 new

ones that all have a vague language on

them. And you've got to pick which one

to go through next. You go through,

okay, you bounced off that one.

you took an L. Lost some money. You go

through another one. Okay, this was the

right one. And then there's 20.

[laughter] actually your optionality is

increasing with the more success you

have. So there's more doors and more

decisions to make, more uncertainty,

which most people don't realize. But

actually, as you were saying, I was

thinking, "Fuck, this is exactly what

I'm going through now." Like I I was up

till the early hours of the morning with

one of my colleagues yesterday night and

we're just figuring out which door to

walk through. So this is really

interesting because the earlier you are

in your journey, the more specific the

advice is because if you do not have a

business, the first step is the same for

everyone which is you must start an

entity and then you have to have a bank

account so that you can exchange money

and you have to have a a way or manner

of collecting that cash. Now of course

you could have cash business but I would

say most people use credit cards now. So

you have a processor, a bank account and

an entity.

>> It doesn't matter what business you

start that is the first step. Now, as

the business grows, you have more

resources. The the nature of the

business is different. And so, the

number of doors that are ahead of you

are actually multiplied by a huge

factor.

>> And so, right now, it's actually never

easier to know what to do than when you

start. And so, it has nothing to do with

you not knowing. Of course, you know, I

just we just said it.

>> It's everything to figure out why you're

not doing it. and more specifically

whose voice you're listening to that is

not yours that you are afraid of

disappointing or afraid of their

judgment. And if you can identify that

voice cuz and you actually put a name on

it, it's not like, oh, what are people

going to think? It's not people. It's

probably like two people. And if you

name, you're like, oh, it's just James

and Betty.

>> Yeah.

>> So, this is really real. So, one, when I

was about to sell Gym Lodge, I really I

it was actually a very hard decision for

me. Super hard. Um, and when I exited,

one of the reasons I almost didn't exit

was because there was somebody that I

knew in my circle, not even like a super

close friend, that I realized when I got

really clear on whose voice I cared

about, I thought that they didn't think

that $46 million was enough money, that

they wouldn't think it was legit.

[laughter] I'm dead serious.

>> Funny to hear. [laughter]

>> He's not going to think he's not going

to think I'm legit. It was only when I

was like, am I going to not do this and

let him control me? Cuz that's what it

is. They control you.

>> And I think when you say it in those

terms, it feels like much heavier, like

I'm letting my mom or my uncle or my

brother or the the coworker John control

me

>> because I that's how much I care about

this guy's approval. I care I have to

care about my approval more.

>> I want to say say this in more detail

because I think it's it's important. The

person that you see in front of you is

not the person who who took the leap to

start the business. I belabored that

decision

for 6 months. I had almost like a

pre-anned answer and people were like,

"Oh, so what do you do with your

career?" Oh, you know, I'm consultant

like to do a business school and then

someday start my own business. It was

like I I could say it in my sleep, but

the someday start my own business. When

I tried to think a little bit more first

principles, I was like, "Okay, well, in

what way is this business school going

to help me start a business?" And when I

looked at the starting salaries of

business school, it was like $120,000 a

year after you went to a good business

school. And I thought to myself, well,

it cost me $60,000 a year and I can't

make money during that period. So I'm

going to lose$120 for sure and at the

time I was making $50 $60,000 a year.

And so I was like, so it's $240,000 is

my call it my opportunity cost in two

years. Do I think that I can take the

money that I had saved up and in two

years get to $10,000 a month? I was

like, I think I can do it. And so that

was part of the reason that I ended up

not going to business school and it was

because of a question on the business

school test was how will a Booth MBA

help a short and long-term goals? And I

just sat there for three days trying to

answer it and I realized I was like I

don't know if it will help my long term.

>> Interesting.

>> So I mean it's good that they have those

questions because they actually forced

me to answer it. Now back to the the six

months I read I I was probably reading

no joke a book every two days cuz I the

job that I had had high seasons and low

seasons. And during low seasons I

basically just read books and they were

almost all self-help books. And I got to

this point after reading however many of

them that I looked back at my life and

realized it was exactly the same. And I

thought, "Oh, if I don't do anything, my

life's not going to change." And so I

had this idea that if I just keep

reading these books, somehow my life was

just going to change. And that was like

one of the realizations that I had. I

had a friend who was also in a white

collar, you know, job like I was. And

every night we'd probably get on the

phone for 2 to three hours and talk

about how we were going to start a

business. And I had this I had this this

IKEA carpet that I bought that was a a

cowhide carpet. And the spot where I'd

walk back and forth was like worn out on

the cowh high because of how much I

would just pace in my small uh flat just

going back and forth just talking about

the ideas that I had to start a

business. Every time I wanted to start

it, I would tell my dad I want to start

the business and he he would be like,

"Let's let's not be unreasonable here."

He's like, "You've got a good job." He's

like, "You're following the plan. You

did Vanderbilt in three years. You had

good grades. You got you were going to

do two years here. Then you go to one of

the top IV, you know, NBA schools. Like

it's you're good. Don't like this is

part of it. This is part of it. Right?

>> I acted with such cowardice that I had

to I had to drive halfway across the

country before I could call my dad to

tell him that I that I had quit my job

and that I was going to start a business

because I knew that if I had done it

while he was there, he would talk me out

of it because he had already talked me

out of it a bunch of times.

>> Why was he doing that? I I learned a

little bit about his background over the

last couple of days. I've got some

photos. I mean,

>> ah that's right. Dear G.

>> And I think there's context in his own

story which

>> completes the picture.

>> So whatever people see of my success I

think in a lot of ways what my dad

accomplished the more I think about it

is bigger. My dad fled during the

Iranian uh revolution right and then he

went to go to uh France to become a

doctor but he didn't speak French. And

so he had to go try to go into medical

school and take Orgo in a language that

he didn't understand. And so he failed

two years in a row. His brother was

like, "Go to Belgium, start fresh, go to

a new place." And so he ended up uh

getting all the way through medical

school. And then he met my mother in

medical school and then they came back

to the US. Now his medical degree didn't

transfer to the US. And so he had to get

a US fellowship in order a residency or

whatever. But no one would take a Middle

Eastern guy who had a super thick accent

who was fresh out of medical school and

there was all these US-based people

here. And so for two years he ran X-ray

slides. He finally gets a residency and

then he decides when he comes back to

Baltimore, which is where my where where

I'm from, that he's going to instead of

join the practice that my mother had

with her father. He was going to go out

on his own, which is pretty ballsy,

right? He didn't have foreigner, didn't

have anything. And so he asked to find

out how much a construction cost for

building your own surgery center. And it

was like $250,000 then, so it was a lot

of money. He didn't have that. And so he

looked at all the legal requirements for

what what it entails to be a serger

center. And then he went to Home Depot

and built a surgery center that met all

the specs and got it inspected so that

he could have his own surgery center in

his practice. Then right as his practice

was starting to work, my parents got

divorced. They changed the the locks on

the door cuz he had like a separate

thing. His patients show up and they

didn't know where to go. It was an ugly

divorce. And so then he's he's starting

his own and this is when he was talking

to me then. So fast forward now. He's

like, "I've been in practice for, you

know, 20, 30 years, whatever." He's

like, "Those years, I didn't even think

about him." I think I was like, "I feel

like I'm not moving fast enough. I feel

like I need to need to do these things."

And he's like, "Dude, a year, two years

now." He's like, "It's nothing." He's

like, "When your mind, you're not even

going to think you're not even remember

it."

>> The the honest truth of the matter is

that I

really desperately wanted to prove that

I could do it on my own.

>> Who did you want to prove that to?

>> I don't know. Everyone. Me, him, the

world. I remember being terrified about

the idea of winning the lottery. Sounds

really weird. [laughter] When I was in

college, I bought a Super Bowl ticket

because it was like a billion dollars or

something. I was like, "Let's do it for

fun, whatever." And I and I remember

having this this moment right before the

the number was going to get called of

sheer terror of what if I win because I

was like, I will never be able to prove

that I I have the medal, that I can do

it. And so, and of course people would

say that now if someone wants to give me

a billion dollars, I'm happy to use it.

Because to be fair though, because I

already have this I already have the

status and the track record that I that

I built this.

>> And this also the reason that like when

I started my my business like I didn't

take a loan like I used my own money

that I had saved because I I wanted to

be mine and I knew I would know. And I

think yeah, my dad had absolutely

perfect intentions. He gave me what I

believe to be for vast majority of

people probably pretty good advice. Mhm.

>> It just wasn't the advice that I needed

for the goals that I had.

>> There's an interesting thing because

people like me and you make business

content and we talk about

entrepreneurship a lot.

>> Um I I often wonder if we're leading

some people astray in the context of

some people actually should take that

advice. Some people shouldn't become

entrepreneurs. Um and how does one know

if entrepreneurship in its broad

definition is for them or not or like

working in a company having you know

having a great job is for them? It's

funny. We were I was doing this show

once and I said to the producer who was

just off camera. I said, "Um, do you

think I'm happy?" So, this is this is

someone who gets to see who's has seen

me for six or seven years behind the

scenes every day since we're on my

kitchen table. Has been there with me

every corner of the world, the the best

and the worst of times. I went, "Do you

think I'm happy?" He went, "Yes." He

said it quickly. And then he and then I

said, "Would you want my life?" And he

he couldn't have said no more violently.

So much so that it was almost defensive.

[laughter] He was like, "You're having"

And then I do you want would you like my

life? He goes, "No." And he was like,

and and he was like laughing. He would

not want my life, but at the same time

thinks and believes having seen me

behind the scenes for 7 years that I'm

happy. And in there, I think you have

something which is the the sort of

subjectivity of of of journey like is

this your journey? How does one know

listening to this now if they should be

an entrepreneur or not?

>> So, I'll give a couple frames because

decision-m is what probably both do with

a lot of our time. So, one is what's the

goal? what do I want to have happen?

>> Everyone says the same things here. They

say, you know, I want freedom to make my

decisions. I want, you know, financial

freedom.

>> Then we have to be specific. And so,

just like fear only exists in the

specific, goals have to exist in the

specific in order for them to be real

and for you to make accurate decisions.

>> Mhm.

>> And this is why I'm so obsessive about

language and like observables and things

like that. So, what is one is what do I

what do I actually want to have happen?

And then number two, what does that

change about my actual daily life? on

this first point. Funnily enough, I said

to you freedom

>> and then I immediately realized that the

least free person in the [laughter]

>> dude this gets okay this is great. So I

think about this it's the freedom to

choose

>> but I think people stop at freedom.

There's this almost fetishization of

independence and keeping your options

open and m and options maxing right for

your life. But all of the best parts of

life come on the other side of

exercising an option and and walking

through a door. But in so doing, leaving

the other doors that you could have

walked through behind. And so the secret

to getting a life you want is making a

commitment. But you will not get all

lives you want.

And so at some point you have to sit at

the precipice and you have to make a

trade. And you have to say, I want this

more than something else. That means I

know I'm not going to get this and I

choose to say that I want this more.

And I think this is where people just

sit at the crossroads. And that is what

takes the majority of time. Not just

getting into business, but also when

you're in business, people will sit at

the crossroads of like, what type of

company do I want to build? What type of

product? And what type what what type of

business do I want? And we sit there and

I when I see people get stuck, it's

almost always unmade decisions because

unmade decisions can last forever.

>> Whereas if you're in if you're in a

trial loop of feedback, feedback,

feedback, like you'll figure it out,

like you'll move. But if you're in an

unmade decision, it could sit there

forever. And that's that's like the

freedom to choose. We have to choose.

Are you seeing this sort of new

generation that have grown up with all

the tools to start their own business

that we're in this personal brand era

where everybody can make content and

build a brand and then do like panel

talks for a living or sell like ads on

LinkedIn? Um,

>> what what is going on here? this sort of

younger generation under 30 now

keeping their options open wanting

freedom. If you compare that to say

maybe my dad who you know one job did

that career for 20 30 years of his love

40 years of his life it's a very

different world we're living in. There

are more people starting businesses than

ever before. I know since co there's

there's at least in the US the stats

that I looked at recently it's like

there's been more new businesses per

quarter. It's been growing really

aggressively at least in the US and so

more people are starting businesses. And

so I think that lowering the cost of

entry has gotten more people across the

line. I think having more access to

information has gotten more people

across the line. But why aren't why

isn't everyone going across the line? I

think there's a couple things. One is to

your point earlier, I don't think it is

for everyone. And so I think the issue

there is one of motivation. They have

too many carrots, so good things keeping

them in their current position and not

enough sticks or bad things getting them

out of their current position. And I

think um I think it's a it's a Tony

quote, Tony Robbins quote, which is uh

the pain of staying the same has to be

greater than the pain of change.

>> And I [clears throat] think that

when that happens and it could be the

pleasure of change could be has to be

greater than the pleasure of staying the

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Now do you think life rewards you

somewhat proportional to the hardness of

the problem that you solve?

>> So I think um a hard problem doesn't

necessarily guarantee that it is a

valuable problem. Mhm. [clears throat]

>> Like if you run a marathon very hard, it

doesn't necessarily make you more money.

So like there's lots of hard things that

are out there that will not turn into

monetization.

>> The second thing is I think it depends

on the size of your goals.

>> And so if you want to be a millionaire,

you do not need to solve a hard problem.

You just need to do a little bit better

than other businesses that are wildly

underserving their customers, which I

promise you there are plenty. You can

just have a pool cleaning business that

just cleans better than the other guy

and like shows up on time and all you

got to do is knock on doors and ask if

they want to switch because their

current company probably doesn't pay

attention to them.

>> One of the things that, you know, a lot

of founders, entrepreneurs are thinking

about at the moment is producing

content.

>> We're living in in in an interesting

time where a kid in Mumbai or a kid in

Manhattan can both produce content using

LLM, uh, AI. They can produce videos.

Theoretically, if you imagine any rate

of improvement, they're going to be able

to make videos, photos, churn out your

quotes. They could use your quotes,

change them a little bit, and have an

agent post them for them. Where is the

moat in content? Where you think about,

if you think about supply demand

dynamics, there's fixed demand. The

Financial Times did a report saying that

time spent on social media is starting

to dip a little bit since 2022. For

younger generations, for older

generations, it's still sort of like

going up or flat, but for Gen Z's, it's

like starting to come down a little bit.

So stagnant demand, tsunami slop coming

in of AI content.

>> Yeah.

>> Huge supply shock. Every unit of content

itself is going to become less valuable.

Therefore, um and the algorithms are

getting more violent or I should say are

becoming more um someone with 10 million

followers can get 2,000 likes. Back in

my day, 15 years ago, when I started on

social media, if you had a million

followers, you got a million a million

likes or a million views, should I say.

What's the game of content in such a

world? Everyone's everyone's making

content now.

>> To your point, what's the mode? Um,

reality is the moat.

>> Reality is the moat.

>> I'd say the number one biggest business

influencer I think on the planet is Elon

Musk

and he happens to own the biggest

business on the planet be the richest

man. Uh, Jeff Bezos, huge business

influencer because he has Amazon. Warren

Buffett probably the number one

investing influencer. Like people fly

around the world and when he when he

talks, everyone listens.

And so even if a teacher in De Moines

Iowa word for word quotes Warren Buffett

and let's do one better let's say makes

even better advice than Warren Buffett

does is still not going to get the same

views because they just forgot to build

Berkshire Hathaway and have a hundred

years of track record. And so what I'm

saying there is that when reality is the

mode it means that your brand is the

mode. It means your reputation is the

mode which can only happen in reality.

Now, that said, I do think it's going to

affect different types of content

differently. If you're in the world of

making fictional whatever stuff, then

yeah, I think it's going to hit I think

AI is going to hit you much harder. But

even then, there's still going to be the

the standard holder. Somebody has to

determine that this slop is too sloppy

[laughter] and that you still have to

work really hard to make the AI make

exactly what you want and have it at the

caliber that you want it to be at.

>> Have you made any changes to your

content because of everything that's

going on with algorithms and AI? Yeah,

I'm focused on only doing things that

only I can do. [clears throat]

>> Most people can't get hundreds of

business owners to fly out in person

every month that are all million-dollar

plus business owners to seek advice on

real business problems at 3 million, 5

million, 10 million a year, 500k a year.

Most people don't have that. And so I

can demonstrate expertise in a live and

interactive fashion, in a way that other

people can't do. I think that live is

something that I mean AI maybe in the

future we'll have some AI avatars that

can go live but at least in the short to

medium term I think live is good. I

think IRL as in like it's actually real

people talking which is we talked about

the scaler fail show that we just

launched. It's real entrepreneurs and

there's stakes [laughter] involved. I

think that is something that is not

going to be replaced. But if we think

about content on this continuum all

right let's make this continuum risk.

When I say risk it's the risk that a

consumer has in consuming the content

and executing on it. And so if we

differentiate entertainment and

education is entertainment the point of

the content is to be consumed. It's the

only objective of entertainment. The

point of education is to change

behavior.

>> Right? So that's our that's our split.

Now entertainers will get hit harder

than educators will.

The entertainers that have stakes

involved will be able to maintain that

mode by still focusing on IRL real

stakes real stories. Now in the

education world of risk, let's put

something that's really low stakes.

There we go. So, we've got beauty on

this side. If I have an AI influencer

>> who does a makeup tutorial, I don't

think the risk is super high that if,

you know, if the tutorial is good that a

girl's like going to not use the tip

that they made in the thing. I think

that's pretty likely.

If you go maybe a little bit riskier,

let's say I have some personal finance

stuff. Well, what's the cred? So, the

credibility in beauty is beauty.

the credibility in personal finance is

do you have personal finances? Right?

So, who's the number one uh influencer

in personal finance? My opinion, I think

it's Dave Ramsey. He also happens to be

I don't think he he calls himself this,

but I think he's a billionaire. And he's

got a massive I think he's public $300

million a year of revenue that he's

done. And I think there's some other

newer newer age people. Uh I think

Vivian 2 is is she's a personal finance

person. I think um Erica Coberg touches

in this. She's the legal legal gal. Um,

anyways, all this to say, all of them

have more credibility. Like, if you just

start giving out tips on how to save

money, there's no credibility. Reality,

there's no reality. You have nothing to

back it up.

>> Mhm.

>> Now, we keep moving further. Let's say

business where if you make a wrong call,

you could lose your business. Here, you

lose some money. Here, you lose a bad

day of makeup. So, the risk goes up. the

riskier or the higher the consequences

of being wrong, the more people are

going to, I think, double down on

credibility of source.

>> What's interesting is I also heard as

you were describing flying these 100

business owners out to Vegas is I heard

scarce, hard and scarce. And I still

thought a lot about these two words as

sort of the pillars of my own content

strategy, which is

>> with an LLM, yeah, a kid in Mumbai could

churn out a video. Um, but the reason

why we have, you know, somewhat of a

moat here still is because it is hard to

shoot on nine cameras. It is hard to

bring Alex Hermosi here. It is hard to

get Alex Hozi to say yes to doing this.

[laughter] It is hard to get Michelle

Obama or JD Vance to say yes to doing

this. So, there's it's hard from a

production perspective, but also from

like to accomplish this is hard. And

then what you described, I heard a lot

of the like I heard hard and scarce. who

can bring a hundred entrepreneurs to

Vegas who are all successful in their

own right and and have them ask you

questions. So that's great content for

us to watch. It's like really impossible

to to

>> very hard. If I had only had a $46

million exit, I don't know if I would

attract the number of entrepreneurs that

that we do now. But now that we do 250

plus schools, a billion dollar plus

company, it's like I have credibility

that the the the YouTube the content

right is not like I we we I still do

business.

>> You know what I mean? We have chains of

brick and mortar that that we're

involved in. I just don't talk about it

because it doesn't it's not relevant for

most people.

>> Let's look at the opposite then as well

just to show people what the opposite of

hard and scarce or of this approach is.

What types of content should we all kind

of stay away from now? So I think

commoditize tips and tricks um when you

have no again like proof is in the

pudding reality is the moat. It's

basically the opposite of that. So if

you are posing if you are pretending if

you have no proof um that you are good

at this thing and again this is on the

education side then there's a big I call

the big uh wispy. Why should I listen to

you? Right? Why should I listen to you?

And if you can't answer that question

for say a prospect, you know,

prospective customer within the first

like couple seconds,

>> they'll just listen to somebody else

because the reason that credibility

matters so much is that it's actually

lower effort to consume information from

somebody who's an authority. And so if

I'm if I'm listening to somebody who

doesn't have proof and I'm listening to

investing advice, I have to really think

like, is this true? Does this make

sense? If I'm listening to Warren

Buffett, I don't have to think that. I'm

like, I'm sure he's right. Now when

someone's like, how do I get into this?

You do what no one else can do. Well, if

you are getting in, then document like

document the proof of effort. So, you

can do pro you can have proof of outcome

just like what we do, right? What you

do.

>> But then there's when you're starting,

there's proof of effort. Jimmy's first

viral video is him counting to like a

million. It's proof of effort. When you

have nothing else, you have time. You

have work. If you want to make if you

want to say, "Hey, I want to I want to

get into into sales stuff." It's like

record your entire day of you selling.

And then when you overcome something

that's really good, that's real life

with real stakes, clip the moment,

right? And show yourself. It's like, I

took 22 calls today. Let me tell you the

best moment. I did a I did a 12-h hour

day. In 3 minutes, I'll give you the

best moments. It's like people want to

deal.

>> And so I think about that as a

compression of time. And the reason that

people listen to the people who are

further ahead who've done all these

things is because we can compress time.

Mhm.

>> You say, "Hey, you could try and figure

this out on your own, but if I can

compress 14 years of business advice

into 37 minutes, that's a good deal." Do

>> you know what it reminded me of? Seven

or eight years ago when I used to have,

you know, big clients, Uber, Coca-Cola,

whatever around the world. Um, we used

to do a lot of like social competition,

social media competitions, and I used to

have this mental framework for the

perfect competition. And I I I remember

the day that I when I first heard of you

and you were coming on my show, and I

was looking through some of your

writings, and you almost had an

identical framework.

>> Yeah. So the the core so each of the

books has one core concept and then it

breaks down how to use it etc. But the

value equation comes down to what's the

outcome

and some outcomes are worth more than

others. If I can help you cut your hair

versus I can get you to be in perfect

shape. Perfect shape is worth more. If I

can get you be a billionaire versus

perfect shape, billionaire is worth

more. Right. So we have outcome and then

we have perceived likelihood of

achievement.

>> Perceived likelihood of achievement.

Okay. So this is the Okay. Interesting.

Yeah,

>> it's the inverse of risk.

>> Yeah.

>> How likely do I think it is?

And then we have on the downside of

this, we have um time delay.

[clears throat]

How long is it going to take me to get

the thing? And then we have effort.

>> Is this sacrifice?

>> Is this effort and sacrifice?

>> No, different.

>> Yeah. So effort is all the things that

you have to begin to do as a result of a

decision that you don't want to do.

sacrifice all the good things that you

have to stop doing as a result of a

decision. So, if I get into fitness, I

have to stop eating the stuff I like and

I have to start eating stuff I don't

like. I have to start waking up earlier,

I can't sleep in as much. Uh, I have to

be sore where I wasn't before.

>> Um, and so that's my effort and

sacrifice piece. The time delay is,

okay, if I can get in shape in 3 minutes

versus getting in shape in 3 months or 3

years,

>> okay,

>> the outcome is am I getting in shape or

am I being a billionaire? And then how

likely is this to happen? Mhm.

>> Because on some level, like if I buy a

PDF of a fitness program for $19 or I

pay $3,000 for a personal trainer to

train me in person three times a week,

my perceived likelihood of achievement

of buying the PDF versus personal

trainer is much higher.

>> Mhm.

>> Now, the effort and sacrifice is

actually going to be relatively fixed.

But this is the part that goes up. Now,