He really doesn't seem to have a plan.

And he's the president, right?

>> He'll call you and ask you for your plan

in about half an hour.

>> He's going to

Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York

Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast

Network. I'm Cara Swisser.

>> And I'm Scott Galloway.

>> So, I just flew in from San Francisco

and boy are my arms tired.

>> I've heard that truck before.

>> I know. I I don't know why I keep doing

the the night flights things. I just

keep I think I'm getting too old for it.

Um, but I had, as you can hear

everybody, I have a cold. And I actually

was there to interview Gavin Newsome uh

for his book, Young Man in a Hurry, uh,

which is now, I guess, Old Man in a

Hurry. Um, and, uh, and so I I went in

to do that and it was actually a

fantastic interview. We'll talk about

it.

>> That's got a lot of news.

>> Yeah, I did. I made a lot. I'm a news

maker, my friend. I don't

>> And I just just to be clear to give you

insight into our relationship, he there

was someone put out a thing saying that

he was in support of he changes tone or

he's in support of regime change

>> and I wrote smart and you bered me. So

why don't you give us

>> not publicly. We're going to talk about

it. We're going to let's let's we'll get

into it. I didn't berate you. It just

was inaccurately depicting the interview

I had just done

>> because I wrote because I wrote the word

smart.

>> No, because you were tweeting an

inaccurate report. That's all.

>> What was who who put out the inaccurate

report?

>> I don't know. It just was weird. It was

weird because it was so not what he

said. Um, and so it just annoys me. It

just annoys me. I mean, I definitely

definitely made a lot of news in that

interview. Um, by the way, we talked we

talked a lot about his book, which was

interesting. Um, we'll get to the

>> But he's definitely not running for

president because no president ever puts

out a book before they run for

president.

>> I know. Well, no, he kept saying that he

wasn't sure. It was really funny. And

then right afterwards, um, it's actually

I like the book. It's gotten some bad

reviews, but I think they've just

decided who he is and are b are

reviewing it based on sort of that

anxious toad slick image versus a lot of

stuff that he's done that's brave. He's

a very complex person like yourself,

Scott Galloway.

>> I've heard it's actually pretty

authentic.

>> I thought it was great and it was a lot

about stuff um it was there was it was

let me just characterize this

discussion. The book I really like, I

have to say, and I think I found out a

lot of things about him that I didn't

know. His um about his mother. I I knew

a little bit about his mother's assisted

suicide, but it was really uh um really

interesting to talk about a lot about

his own struggles and not it wasn't the

dyslexia part. We didn't talk a lot

about that, but a lot about I didn't

know his wife had had a miscarriage, for

example. Um they have he has four kids.

He almost had five. Um it was a there's

a lot in there. There was a lot in

there. And one of the things that struck

me, which brings me back to you, which I

know how you like that,

>> is he was the wife uh he was the son of

a single mom who was not wealthy. And he

he has a lot of resonances to your with

your mom. You know what I mean? Like

your story with your single mom who was

struggling, father who was distant um

and who he who he desperately wanted to

to to be with. It was really it reminded

me a lot of you actually. It was an

interesting discussion.

>> I think people underestimate Newsome and

I think they underestimate um DSantis

and Rubio. Um but I think right now

uh you know I I I think Governor Nome

hands down is the is the leading

candidate on the Democratic side. And

not only that, I think I know a little

bit about his personal story and I

actually think it's quite compelling.

>> Yeah.

>> And a lot of his personal failings I

think will come across as a bit

authentic. people know about them

>> and also I think California is going to

begin not to peak but to recover at just

the right moment for him.

>> Yeah, I I suspect. Anyway, it was really

interesting because I did feel like I

was having the same discussion you and I

have had about single moms.

>> Look, we're the same person except he's

much more talented and handsome and

higher character than me. Other than

that, we're the same guy.

>> That's what he suffers from. That's

everybody is sensitive to you and not to

him. He definitely played into it. We

talked about that. It was a very

personal thing, but we did get a lot of

news in too.

>> Yeah. Reading about it everywhere. I

know. Yeah.

>> I I literally see Gavin Newsome and this

11-year-old boy on stage and I'm like,

"Oh, I know her."

>> And my voice is so For those listening

to it, I apologize. This is a good

version of my voice. It was so I I was

absolutely dead horse three hours before

and I thought I'd have to cancel, but I

I I did all manner of things to my voice

to allow it to work.

>> Um, and he got to over and I said I

said, "You're lucky today. I've never

had a man overalk me, so I'm you're

going to get some chance to do that

today." Okay, which was funny. Um, and

he does talk a lot, let me just say. So,

let's get right let's get right into it.

Um, President Trump says the US military

intends to continue its assault on Iran

for four to five weeks if necessary. Um,

he keeps changing his tune. We'll get to

that in a second. The US and Israel

began strikes on Saturday, killing

Iran's Supreme Leader, the Ayatollah, as

well as several senior officials. Trump

has justified the attack on Iran, which

did not receive congressional approval,

by citing quote imminent threats, though

he had not provided evidence that it

looks like he doesn't have any. Iran is

retaliating all over the place with

missiles and drones targeting Israel,

the US bases in Gulf countries, Dubai,

all manner of of places. Four American

service members have been killed, and

Trump says there will likely be more,

but quote, "That's the way it is." Uh,

kind of a callous way to put it. Um,

three US jets were also shot down in a

friendly fire incident over Kuwait. The

crew members got out safely. Thank

goodness. These are $90 million jets.

That's $270 million. Uh, Trump has

justified the attack on Iran, which did

not receive congressional approval by

citing imminent threats, though he has

not provided evidence and and many many

people who've been briefed on it,

including Republicans, said there wasn't

evidence of that. That said, a lot of

people are celebrating the death of the

Ayatollah. Um, Defense Secretary Pete

Hegaz held a presser a little while ago.

He said this uh is not so-called regime

change war, but a regime sure did

change. Not clear if either of them is

true because Trump has talked about

regime change and it doesn't appear as

the regime has changed. Hegex was also

uh asked about the timeline. Let's

listen to what he said if we can hear

him directly.

>> To the media outlets and political left

screaming endless wars, stop. This is

not Iraq.

This is not endless. I was there for

both. Our generation knows better and so

does this president. He called the last

20 years of nation building wars dumb.

And he's right. This is the opposite.

>> Well, it's nice to hear from a stomach

model who doesn't know what he's talking

about. But I also want to note about

this uh interview I did with California

Governor Gavin Newsome over the weekend

for the latest episode of On with Caris

Fischer. Um, it's really interesting

because one of the issues was all the

misinformation

uh online. It was really quite, it

wasn't just something you tweeted, but

it was all over the place misreporting

where he stands on all this. Let's

listen to what he told me. And this was

just a small piece of it cuz he went on

for a while decrying Donald Trump's

action. Let's go.

>> And that's Donald Trump, the chaos

president, this wrecking ball president

across the board. Destruction is not

strength.

And once again, we've seen him destroy

not our not only our allies in

relationship to the rest of the world,

but we're seeing him destroy any

capacity to explain fundamentally what

the core American interest is at this

moment to declare war, to go to war with

a regime. And all of this is playing out

in real time.

>> Um, news posted on X over the weekend,

the corrupt or repressive Iranian regime

must never have nuclear weapons.

leadership of Iran must go, but that

doesn't justify the president of the

United States engaging in a legal,

dangerous war. Very similar to what

Senator Warner said. All all the

senators pretty much said, "This guy

deserved to die, and at the same time,

this seems like a chaotic mess." Um,

let's let's talk about a little bit

about it and and especially the economic

impact that the fighting has effectively

shut down the straight of Hormuz, which

carries 1/5if of the world's oil supply.

As is recording, oil prices are up about

7%, gas futures jumped as much as 9%. Uh

spike in energy places, supply chain

strain, broader ripple effects across

the global economy, especially because

of the uncertainty. And the last thing I

would note um uh is that and and it's

interesting because Trump does respond

to this is that um there's much

reporting including in the Washington

Post um about how he he was convinced to

do it through uh Muhammad bin Salman and

Benjamin Netanyahu and even JD Vance and

General Kaine did not want to do this

but here we are. So what do you talk a

little bit about the where it's going to

go from here and your thoughts?

Well, the the honest answer is I have no

idea or I I have a a vision for where

you hope it goes, but I'm sympathetic to

Governors Newsome and Senator Warner.

the notion that we're going to end up

after Trump is gone,

we have to be thoughtful about how we

improve the tensil strength of our

democracy by stopping the slow but

steady leak of power from Congress which

is the people to the president under the

oposis or cold comfort that they will

stick to certain norms because

effectively a president should not be

able military action you can maybe

justify but this is war. And I'm

sympathetic to

>> use the word war. Oh, go ahead.

>> Pardon?

>> He used the word war.

>> I know this is war. That it is war. And

I'm sympathetic to the notion that the

reason we have 535 members of Congress

representing, you know, two two per

state in the Senate and one for every

750,000 people is the American people

are supposed to have a say. But

Democrats, it's 7% are actually in favor

of this. So there's going to need to be

the best thing we could do coming out or

one of the best things I think coming

out of the Trump administration and this

highlights that is to have structural

reform around gerrymandering, citizens

united and that Congress has to be

involved or briefed or that we have to

go back to this notion where only

Congress can decide if in fact we go to

we go to war. Now where could this go?

As you know, I'm in favor, loosely

speaking, around this action because I

always like to ask like to ask myself

what could go right.

>> Iran is 90 million people, sits on the

second largest natural gas reserves, the

third largest oil reserves, incredible

science, incredible universities,

incredible entrepreneurial spirit.

Actually quite a nonseular.

>> It was, that's for sure.

>> Non sec. Well, I would argue it's

anyways fairly non-seular. a lot less

anti-West than people have been led to

believe by what I think is one of the

most oppressive, brutal regimes in

history. So, what could go right? You

could have one of the largest economies

in the Middle East become more pro-

West. It's been punching below its

weight class for 20 or 30 years now

because of poor technology and

sanctions. you could immediately see it

uh come up and be an economic power that

is pro- west, pro- trading, pro-

capitalist. What effectively might be

the low one of the biggest tax cuts in

history if you didn't if you saw more

consistent flows of oil and technology

and a great trading partner. I actually

think Europe would be the biggest

beneficiary

>> and turn what has been the primary agent

of chaos and terror

>> in an unstable region into something

resembling I don't even call it pro-

west but neutral west. So I think

there's a lot that could go right here

and I think the risk assessment provided

to the president in my view had a lot of

asymmetric upside. Now having said that

what they missed here was part of the

PAL doctrine and that is you have to

have clearly articulated objectives

>> or plans for next beyond

>> well they haven't they and and to your

point they just haven't been able to

articulate in the last 24 hours what is

the offramp and the objective here is it

regime change is it a more friendly

regime is it I mean what exactly

>> and all that you're not going to get

>> this notion that all of a sudden we're

going to provide air

and the Iranian people are going to rise

up and overtake 150,000 members of the

IRGC who are deeply integrated into

>> they have outside plans. There's some

great reporting on this by the way by by

legitimate news organizations. They have

h they have contingency plans in place

for what happens if the dies and they're

carrying them out.

>> But but we okay but in Syria, Libya and

Iraq

uh these were autocracies with a central

figure head. The RGC is very deeply

embedded into the economy.

>> Yeah.

>> So when your mortgage and your salary is

being paid by the RGC, it's not like,

oh, okay, the top guy Assad is gone and

boom, it's it's a new administration. So

there's a lot about the ground game.

There's a lot about intelligence assets.

And if they had said, we are going to,

for example, a potential offramp. We're

going to neuter their navy. We're going

to diminish their air defense

capabilities. We're going to make sure

for sure there is absolutely no ability

to create or enrich nuclear stockpiles

and then we're going to leave it up to

the Iranian people. That's technically

an offramp. But I have seen in the last

24 hours them talk about regime change.

No, this isn't regime change. So they

haven't been able to articulate what is

next.

>> Well, I don't I don't believe they

thought about it. I mean, one of the

things that a lot of people are pointing

out is is the involvement of Netanyahu

and uh the head of Saudi Arabia who

publicly had said he was against this

but privately was quite for it and

pressing for it. The linkage between the

corruption with the Trump family and

this coin operated presidency that I

talk about all the time is really very

clear because most I would say they're

trying to come up with a story after the

fact. Oh, it hasn't worked. It isn't an

endless war. Although it feels kind of

like an endless war. It feels very

Bushian, right? Did you you definitely

had echoes of that? It feel he I think

he thought it was going to be like

Venezuela, right? That it was like just

take that guy out. And by the way, he's

in business with the Maduro

administration. He didn't regime change

that place at all. Like speaking of

regime change,

>> this is much more complicated.

>> I agree, but I think he thought it was

like that.

>> No, I'm I'm agreeing with you. This is

not take out Maduro and and this is much

more uh

>> he just has has cowed the regime into

it. But it's the same regime in this

case. It's really fascinating how they

have um put themselves into this economy

in a way that's very hard to um to to

get them out. Right. Exact. You know, of

course, this is their point of these

very corrupt and I would say evil mullas

in in Iran. Um, but one of the things

that's fascinating to me is one the the

continued corruption of Trump's family

and Trump with with in this region and

second of all that he keeps calling have

you noticed he's calling all I'm waiting

for a call from him myself like he

called Jake Tapper he called um you know

a bunch of John Carl he's called all the

regular old media people essentially or

the people he he decries all the time

and it seems like he's workshopping

different reasons like it's that's so

>> he's trying to trying to figure

But there is again what could go right

here. The most powerful instinct is

survival. And what we pulled off here

and when I say we I actually think it

was more the MOSA than than us. We

effectively and I don't think people

really register how profound this was.

Within about two hours we took out the

equivalent of the president, the

secretary of defense and the head of the

joint chiefs.

>> Right. They were all in the same place.

But yes. and and then and what has got

to be the strategic mistake of I would

say the last five years other than the

decision by Hamas to go into Israel um

geopolitically they started uh attacking

civilian targets within the

>> idea fared Zakaria noted that this

mistake

>> I mean that's just okay you want to

isolate yourself from your from who

should naturally be sympathetic to you

now the the going back to this notion of

survival instinct At some point you got

to think the next level down and I don't

know if it's 1,000 or 10,000 or 100,000

or 150,000 IRGC say okay we too really

like our families in this thing called

life maybe we need to come to some sort

of accommodation

with with the US and the west so

>> that would require as you know boots on

the ground and Trump didn't even roll

that out again like this I here's what

really drives me crazy this idea they're

like it's not endless war the other

presidents were just dumb It's the same

thing. You you know they're they're just

trying very hard to spin it. And by the

way, you you noted a poll that half

Americans support it. It's actually not

the case. Many of the polls are showing

25%. You should

>> I didn't say that. 55% of Republicans

and it's about 30% are indifferent. Now

amongst Democrats, it's 7%. And I'm

amongst the 7% of Democrats who support

this. But it's a little bit different

because okay what they're hoping for and

maybe it's it's a it's a hallucination

that it's not boots on the ground that

it's that it's sandals and sneakers and

slippers that the Iranian people

>> right

>> based on the problem is the 30,000

people that have been mowed down were

the front lines they were the Marines

they were the shock troops who were

willing to risk their lives

>> right

>> so the reality is kind of what the

offramp will be or how this plays out

>> probably plays out in the next week in

terms of the Iranian populace's ability

to fment and change on the ground

because the American public does not

have any appetite for boots on the

ground. But what I I talked to a senator

this morning, I'm like, isn't a

reasonable offramp that you would say,

okay, we're going to diminish their

ability to wreak havoc to a point, you

know, 0.1. We're going to control the

skies. We're going to diminish their

navy. We're not going to we're going to

clear out their mind sweepers from the

Straits of Hormuz. We're going to

absolutely ensure there is zero

capability nuclear. And then we're going

to declare

>> you said was obliterated in June. Just

let's point that out.

>> Fair point. Why did again more

inconsistency. Why did we need to go

back in to to diminish our nuclear

capacity when you said it was done 7

months ago?

>> So there is inconsistent messaging.

>> But I think the

>> in my opinion the opportunities here to

diminish the capacity to continue to

levy this depravity and oppression

amongst its populace and potentially

liberate one of the great cultures in

civilization's history that sits on

unbelievable economic potential economic

prosperity.

it there is a real potential upside

here.

>> You know where else there's a potential

of upside is Ukraine. Same thing like

this. So what's really interesting to

hear is he yells at Europe for not

pulling their fair share in defense.

Fine. I I can see that argument even

though he makes it in the crude and

repulsive way. Uh why isn't uh why isn't

Saudi Arabia and Israel paying for this?

We're doing their cop duty and we happen

to have a corrupt cop on the beat.

>> Oh, Israel sacrif sacrifice. I'm talking

about you don't hear the same language,

right? Saudi Arabia, if Saudi Arabia

wanted this to happen, they should pay

for it. Like, if that's really the

thing, why do I have to pay as an

American taxpayer

$270 million for three planes? Like,

that kind of stuff. And so, and why

aren't why isn't this money deployed

elsewhere that I think isn't our not me,

I'm not running this show, but like why

isn't Ukraine the same thing? Like

that's that's what's really interesting

because there's a country that is full

of like economic talk about economic

opportunities. Same thing. Let me focus

you on the toll on the US economy

because all these like a a free well

first of all every attempt at regime

change in the Middle East has failed

almost miserably for the United States

or or a version of regime change

Afghanistan everywhere everywhere we go.

Um

>> well I did to be fair I did work in the

Balkans. We have had successful

interventions in Kuwait. We successfully

repelled the difference there is we did

it multilaterally which

>> that's right

>> he's stupid to do here already Britain

our closest ally is humming and hawing

about letting us use their airfields

yeah

>> he wants to go it alone which is stupid

anyway I interrupted you talking about

the economics here

>> so I want to know about the e the effect

on the economy because one of the things

because these when people start a war it

tends to be in the 60s period right it's

25 and I get that the democrats don't

like it but in a 25 is a bad place to

start when you're doing a war which if

you remember remember the stud Scud and

everyone being vaguely excited when they

were doing the I mean my even myself

which is grotesque because I I I now

have children I'm like oh no no no but

um talk about the toll in the economy

because every and and the MAGA people

green um Carlson

more even more heinous people are

talking about this is not what we voted

for right this is not and and they're

trying very desperately to pretend it's

not an endless war. It's whatever word

they're going to use um is not going to

work with these people. They they he's

already struck seven countries, seven

events. Like he's done more war like

they it was interesting because Hillary

Clinton was so prey about exactly what

he would do here. He seems to like and

have an appetite for military action

because everything's going so badly for

him. So talk about the effect on the US

economy, oil prices, right? inflation

um more danger for the US in terms of of

attacks on our our own soil from the

Iranians. The CR I mean if you back

these Iranians into a corner they may do

something really dire here in this

country. What is the toll in the US

economy and let me uh add in that people

were using this word to cash in on

online betting markets which was

repulsive. it. Uh, Kalshi reportedly saw

$36 million in bet volume related to

whether or not there will be regime

change in Iran. On Poly Market, 529

million was traded on contracts tied to

the timing of the strikes and some of

them seem rather suspect. Poly Market

defended its decision to allow betting

on the Star War saying it's invaluable

source of news and answers. It feels

like profiteering to me. Um, but talk a

little bit about the impact on the

economy. What what's next if under think

of three two scenarios? what's next for

the economy.

>> Just just to go in reverse order, I

actually would argue that that we have

diminished I mean you have what is um

what was the superpower in the region

with their proxies Hezbollah, Hamas, the

Houthis wreaking havoc economically and

in terms of oppression of different

people in the region and their

organizing principle was death to Israel

and death to America. And I would argue

that even if we don't have the regime

change or a quoteunquote liberated uh

capitalist westfriendly Iran that their

ability to strike at us and our proxies

overseas and our bases is actually been

diminished that that they're not now we

need to be more worried. I think we need

to actually

>> be less worried. There are two scenarios

here. One scenario is we end up in

another forever war that explodes our

deficits and we keep incrementally

making excuses for you know trying to

impose democracy which is an oxymoron

and oil prices the straight of horm gets

gets blocked off and oil prices

skyrocket now to a certain extent if you

wanted to be really mavavelian that

doesn't hurt us that much because we are

energy independent who this really is

hurting both Venezuela and Iran is China

80% of Iran's oil was going to China the

same with Venezuela. So, we can survive

an oil shock, but you could have you

could have an increase in deficits of a

forever war, uh disruption in supply

chain, uh straining our straining our

relationships with the allies. I

personally think there's more asymmetric

upside where we unlock

um uh stronger oil flows, better

technology, a potential trading partner

for Europe, for Europe and the US. And I

would argue I would bet that I believe

in 6 months that oil prices will be

lower uh than they are today. Now to

your point about cost and economics, I

am sympathetic to the left's view, many

people on the left, that these forever

wars and foreign intervention and

imperialist

imposing our own values on other

cultures and other nations is not only

uh wrong, it is just really

expensive. I'm sympathetic to that. What

I'm not sympathetic to,

>> can I make a correction? It's Charlie

Kirk talked about this. The right, this

has been an animating issue.

>> I was just about to get there, Cara. The

right has a very strong isolationist

spent. What is inconsistent for me? It

is consistent to say, "Let's focus on

let's focus on our problems

domestically. Let's spend money

domestically. Let's not run up deficits

with tax cuts and forever wars in a

macho military. and let's stay out of

other people's knitting recognizing that

we respect the right their right to to

do what you know to govern themselves

and and and

shape their own future. What is totally

inconsistent is the far right or the

rights isolationist rhetoric while

approving a $1.1 trillion military

budget. Because my view is the only

rationale for having a $1.1 trillion

military budget is quite frankly is if

at a on regular basis you're going to go

on your toes because if we don't want to

get involved in this kind of foreign

adventures or misadventures, whatever

you want to characterize it, there's no

risk of Canada invading us. Let's take

our military budget down to 300 billion

and pay off our deficit. So I've never

understood the rights fascination with

ridiculous military spending and then

this isolationist complexion. I

personally think the upside over the

medium and the long term here

economically with a peaceful Middle East

once its primary sponsor of terror is

neutered here. I think it actually I

think this over the medium and the long

term could be really good for Europe.

And if we could figure out a way to end

the war in Ukraine, figure out a way to

have a neutral west. uh Iran, I think

you're going to see the largest tax cut

in history because I think the flows of

oil will take g will cut oil probably in

half and you'll have an incredible

trading partner with what is one of the

most productive capitalist in many ways

societies

in history and that's the Persian

people.

>> Yeah, that is true. I I understand one

of the things that troubles me is this

the one is that he really doesn't seem

to have a plan and he's the president,

right? and that people within his

administration,

>> he'll call you and ask you for your

plan.

>> My plan is for you to step down, but

then I would get JD Vance, but that's my

suggestion. Um, and you should go off

and spend all the money you've stolen

from the American people. But, um, but

one of the um, one of the things that I

think about a lot is what that that this

is done in such a haphazard way without

the involvement of Congress, right? That

really is troublesome. and that these

these Republicans who were against these

things immediately get in line. Now

look, Lindsey Graham, that southern

bell, has always been wanting to do

this, right? And now he wants to go from

he is a southern bell.

>> And uh and he's uh he's he's wanted to

do this. He wants to do Cuba next. Let's

do Cuba next. Right? That's the whole

thing. This is also he just in his

mistaken

>> Cuba isn't blinding its women. It's not

hanging teenage girls and then

sanctioning rape of them. He said Cuba.

He did. And

>> yeah, I agree. No, I'm I'm saying that

makes in my opinion, as much as a war

hawk as I am, I see no logical reason to

invade Cuba.

>> Well, I think that's next. It seems like

they're just going to get bored over

here and come over here. But this is

something Lindsey Graham has wanted

forever in his mis uh in his endless and

sad attempt to be more masculine in some

fashion. So, fine, fine, Lindsay. That's

fine. But one of the things that really

drives me crazy is these people are so

um they shift these people say one thing

one week and then shift it the next

week. Like look the I know you like to

attack the left but they're sticking to

their guns on these kind of things.

They're still

>> I like to attack what?

>> Oh, the left a lot. But the right just

shifts it. Like it's like we're against

it. We're against it. We're against it.

Charlie Kirk said let's not be dragged

into this by so and so. It's let's focus

here. Okay, then let's cut our military

budget to 300 billion.

>> I get it. I get it. But I just don't see

why they don't they shift this way. It's

really it's it's sad because I like when

there's argument over what we should do

here in a way that everybody gets

>> and it's meant to be a discourse in the

Congress. I agree with that.

>> Barry Goldwater Barry Goldwater called

this in the 70s. He said that we have

become dangerously used to a slow leak

of power from from the co-equal branches

of government and Congress to the

president. And what kept that mostly in

check was a series of norms where the

president would go and inform the Senate

intelligence committee or the the

defense,

>> you know, the the people in the the

people on the defense committee that he

would give them a heads up. He'd invite

them to the White House and say, "This

is what we're thinking. What do you

think?" Those norms are gone. And so

there's got to be unless there is

structural reform around what it means

to have co-equal brown. Republicans are

resigning from Congress because they're

like why the am I here?

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> The speaker of the house Yeah.

>> is not Mike Johnson. He's the speaker of

the white house. He's there to run rough

shaw

>> over people in the minority party are

used to getting

over. They're used to having no

power. But Republicans are like, "Let me

get this. I stuck around to be in the

majority such that I could represent my

people and get policies through and I'm

not even being consulted on this

>> No. And on the on the Democratic, I'd

say centrist conservative. I have never

seen Senator Warner who I consider

pretty cons pretty like moderate more

than I mean I think he's often we often

disagree on a lot of stuff. He was

incandescent. I you know because he he

sees these things. He knows he has so

much experience in Senate intelligence

etc etc. And to watch people who had

said the very opposite shift was really

something because at the very bottom of

this, it puts people's lives at risk

unnecessarily. And not just American

troops, which is terrible. It's people

on the ground there, Iranian citizens,

which American uh troops and I worry

about American, you know, people

attacking here. And it just creates a

situation that when you there's just a

this guy this guy's got to have a better

reason than to call someone and have a

different reason every minute. And we'll

see its effect on the the stock market's

not loving this at all. Um but we'll

see. We'll see where it goes.

>> But you brought up Kelshi.

>> Yeah.

>> And what's fascinating about these

things is they tend to be right that

there's a wisdom of the crowds. And when

you have Senator Warner who has just had

a lot, this is not his first rodeo. has

had a ton of presidents and joint chiefs

come before him and explain their plans.

And when you have uh Senator Mark Kelly

who's actually flown these missions, if

you don't if you don't take advantage of

the benefit of their insight, even if

they don't agree with you, you're not

taking advantage of the greatest depth

the greatest the greatest IP depth of

knowledge and experience in military

history. And that's amongst quite

frankly many of our members of Congress.

If if you're not bringing Senator

Representative Seth Molton in and

saying, "Hey, when you were on the

ground in Iraq, I mean, instead we're

we're consulting with a senator from

Florida, a former Fox TV host

>> who was

>> and a reality game show host. They're

making these decisions

>> and and the FBI is being run by a guy

who likes to party in the middle of a

possible terror terrorist action in this

country. We're they're we're they're

just going to make and this is I always

like to try and reverse engineer to a a

personal learning here. One of my

biggest flaws biggest flaws as a man is

I thought that masculinity and

leadership was making a quick survey of

the situation and then making a decision

and then it was my job to talk everyone

into my decision. No, it's not.

Leadership is listening and occasionally

going, "Oh, I got it wrong. We

need to switch course." I don't make

now, I didn't learn this until I was

literally 50. I don't make a big

decision personally, financially,

professionally without talking to three

or four really smart people

because you can't read the label from

inside of the bottle. And the US

Congress is full of some of the most

impressive, experienced, smartest people

in the world.

>> And beyond that, there's people

>> and also they have this incredible task

of representing their constituency to

not check in with them. I I think

Senator Warner is ep apoplelectic

because he's like, "For God's sakes, we

can save you from yourself."

>> That's right. That's right. He wasn't

out of ego. I just I've never seen him

do that. It was really interesting.

Anyway, we have to move on. This is a

developing story. We'll see what

happens. This seems like a very, as

Gavin Newsome said, a chaotic White

House. It might be trying to um get us

away from the Epstein files or other

issues at home. Um we didn't even talk

about the distraction, but we need to

move on. Uh we'll go on a quick break.

We come back. Trump targets Anthropic,

another incredible tech company in what

former Trump official calls attempted

corporate murder.

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>> Scott, we're back. President Trump

ordered federal agencies to stop using

anthropic after it did not come uh to a

deal with the Pentagon on safety. The

Defense Department will phase out the

use of anthropic products over the next

6 months, which will, I will tell you,

hurt national security. Anthropic plans

to challenge a supply chain designation

in court. Good for them. When it comes

to the app store, Anthropic is winning.

Claude is the number one spot in the

Apple's free apps as we tape. Anthropic

also faced a major outage on Monday with

the company saying it's been dealing

with quote unprecedented demand. Uh,

meanwhile, Open AI, of course, Sam ever

the opportunist. Open AAI Sam Alman

reached an agreement with the Pentagon.

The company claims it found a way to

ensure its technologies would adhere to

its safety principles by installing

technical guardrails. However, when Sam

Alman was asked on asked whether he

worried about there be future disputes

with the Pentagon over what's legal, he

responded, "Yes, I am." "Oh my god, Sam,

I got to tell you, you need to stop

talking." A former Trump official called

Enthropic order attempted corporate

murder. Um it's uh it's the backdrop of

OpenAI raising 110 billion its latest

funding round, including $50 billion

from Amazon and $30 billion from both

Nvidia and Soft Bank. in these continue

roundtpping kind of deals. Um I I I I

read a lot this weekend about this and

one of the people involved was a guy

named Emil Michael who used to be an

executive at Uber who was possibly one

of the most bullying and awful

executives and full of all manner of um

bad behaviors. uh when there I I he left

the company. We wrote some stories of

this thing he was involved in that was

just so um not a good behavior I would

say. Um I have spent time with him. He's

a he he was the one that was was was

negotiating this. Uh not a surprise. Um

he kept calling Dario a Modi from

anthropic godlike god. He thinks he's

god or whatever. I've never met anyone

who thinks he's god more than a Michael.

And he's usually a toad to more powerful

people. in this case, Pete Hegsath. Um,

anyway, uh, it seems a ridiculous

overreach on the behalf of government.

Probably anthropic will win. I think it

probably will benefit from this as

you've noted many times. Uh, any more

thoughts on this? I don't think we're

any safer as a people for having done

this.

>> I don't I think what people miss is that

over the last 12 months out of 23

markets, we're the 21st best performing

or the third worst.

>> Yep. And what has changed? We've had

incredible innovation.

>> Is up 50,000. Good.

>> Sorry.

>> We've had inc. We still have incredible

innovation. We dominate the most

tectonic shift in technology. The thing

that's changing is I believe we're

experiencing a rotation out of US stocks

and a compression of multiples. And the

reason why is the following. The

underpinnings of why so much capital

flows into the US from every other

market in the world is our incredible IP

developed mostly through funding of

research at universities. An incredibly

risk aggressive culture based on

immigrants who take huge risk to get

here. Um uh and also I think more than

anything probably it or chicken and egg

it attracts the deepest pools of capital

in history. There's $5 million in

venture capital for every startup in the

US. There's only 1 million for every

startup in Europe. Anthropic started six

years ago. If it was in Europe, it'd be

one of the 10 most valuable companies.

But when government starts selectively

punishing and rewarding companies based

on political favoritism, that capital

gets scared and starts withdrawing.

Because why do you invest in open AI or

Anthropic if you don't know who you're

waking up next to in terms of its

ability to raise capital based on the

blood sugar level of whoever's

president? So this is not only the wrong

thing to do and makes us feel less safe

and is probably illegal, it's going to

hit your 401k, folks. in even in places

like the Gulf that are run by

autocracies, they have a real respect

for systemic laws in the market cuz they

recognize the moment they start

with companies based on their own who's

in or out of political favor,

>> it's Russia

>> which has no stock market because nobody

wants to invest and then find out the

CEO got a call from the wrong person or

pissed got on the wrong list and is all

of a sudden out of business. So even in

China, people I think they learned their

lesson lesson a little bit with DD where

they got angry at DD and basically

crushed DD. They're now you know they

have a lot of respect for for

essentially government u regulatory

bodies consistent application of rule of

law trying not to play favorites. So

this will the immediate reaction will be

okay they're wrong this is illegal fine.

And also from a commercial standpoint,

I've been saying for the last year that

someone has an incredible commercial

opportunity to say enough,

>> right?

>> We're the good guys. We do not buy into

this. If this if this costs us money in

the short term, fine. But the very

American values that gave us so much

opportunity are under attack and we're

just not down with it. And I don't I

don't know if you remember me saying

this. I said 6 months ago the biggest

opportunity for for Nike which is

trading at a 10-year low was to run a

bunch of ads saying we're about American

values and that what's going on here is

wrong. What's interesting is the corp

corporate America needed a hero and it

looks like it's Daario.

>> I know it's interesting.

>> What's really interesting here is I

think and and it's finally happening.

They're shaping up to be Joe Frasier and

Muhammad Ali here. And I think that

Dario is being very smart. And I think

it's up to us and the media or

progressive progressives and I'm

obviously stitching this into the rises

and unsubscribe thinking. I think it's

time to start figuring out if there's a

way to be more commercially supportive

of anthropic and less supportive of Open

AI. Basically, OpenAI has decided to

enable and be complicit in the Trump

administration's efforts and Daario and

Anthropic have said, "No, we're we're

not going along here. We're not going to

be intimidated. This is quite frankly,

Cara, I have been waiting for this

matchup for years."

>> I know. Yeah, I know you have. Let me

say I don't I don't know Dario Emodi. I

don't actually. And he might be

arrogant, which is in line with most

people in tech. That may be true, but I

I do know Emil Michael who has been who

did negotiate this. And I do know David

Sachs and both of them are Aryan

operators, ceaseless bullies. Um, and

and anxious toadies to the powerful in

my experience of covering them. Um, Sam

Alman is much a little more complex, but

he's a gifted opportunist, which doesn't

make him that different from anybody in

Silicon Valley. Um, and is has has made

his has made his choice here, right?

That's he wants the business. And so I I

it's a really knowing the characters

involved here. And then on the top of

it, you have an idiot like uh a

like uh Pete Hegsath who doesn't know

what's happening, communicating to

someone he who's even more moronic on

these issues, which is Donald Trump who

I I think just I suspect Saxs is

whispering in his ear and Neil Michael's

whispering in Heg's ear. And this is all

a Silicon Valley beef right between and

among these people. a meal was was let

was had to leave Uber under very um not

great circumstances uh was pushed out.

Um I think all these people is payback

for other people. It's just there's a

lot of Silicon Valley drama happening

here and I don't know Darod I don't I

don't I really don't. It's unusual that

I don't and I've asked for interviews

with him. He has not agreed to do an

interview with me. Uh thanks Chris uh

Nely. Um but I I do and he did a very

good interview with CBS News actually.

Um which I thought was interesting.

>> He handled himself really well.

>> He handled himself really well.

>> He he starched his hat wide in that

interview.

>> Yeah, it was a good interview. Um but

one of the things that I know is the

people on the other side of him are very

people I covered for years who are just

not good. Uh not not um how can I say

this nicely? Uh they're they're the

worst I of of the people I had to cover

over the many years. I have to say

they're literally the worst. And uh and

and to see them in these positions of

power is making these decisions and

hurting a company that just doesn't want

to do business with them. And actually

Michael tweeted out against Emodi weeks

ago. You know, it's so unprofessional as

a government like it's so it's such

based in beefs that were happening

elsewhere. And Emil, I'm really I had

ended up having drinks with him after he

was sort of drumed out of Uber and he he

said something to me. It was so strange.

He goes, "Well, I'm so glad we can be

friends." And I remember saying to him,

"We're not friends. I think what you did

there is terrible. I don't know what

where you operate, but let him just do

what he wants. And don't don't bring

your stupid insecure beefs out on the

thing. And it will benefit Anthropic. It

will I think he I think he's handling

himself. And he may be arrogant. He may

have a god clumps. I don't know. I don't

know. But he's certainly not like these

people. And in that case, the bar is

low. I've had my say.

>> I think it's a big opportunity. I think

I think Americans and consumers are so

ready to vote with their pocketbooks.

And

>> Sam I don't think Sam has acquitted

himself. Well, um I'm not going to have

advertising. We would never do porn.

Well, I need to raise money. Never mind.

And the largest customer in the world,

which is the US government, needs to

have a series of systemic laws that

don't that these are the rules you get

to play by. And full stop. Everyone is

entitled to and obligated to the same

set of rules, not who who you like or

who you don't like. And which kind of

leads into our next story, which is

Netflix and Paramount,

>> right? Netflix. Speaking of that, Scott,

let's take a quick break. When we come

back, Netflix emerges as a winner after

losing the Warner Brothers battle.

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Scott, we're back. Netflix may have lost

the battle for Warner Brothers, but it's

looking like a winner. The company stock

surged 14% of it formally exited the

bidding war. It also now has 2.8 8

billion in the bank after Paramount paid

the Warner Brothers breakup fee. Went

after the plan all along was to saddle

Paramount with debt, drive up the price,

and walk away with more money. Ted Sando

said there are easier ways to make $2.8

billion. Very funny. He's also trashing

it so beautifully. I have to say what a

pro the way like it's ridiculously

expensive. He's dropping all sorts of

bone m that Bloomberg interview you did.

Um I'm hoping to do an interview with

him relatively soon. He noted the

Paramount deal is dependent on cost

cutting leading to less production, less

people working. He's 100% right. On the

Paramount front, CEO David Ellison, who

got strafed by Barry Diller as a stunt

pilot in a speech, another thing, just

announced that Paramount Plus and HBO

Max will be combined into one streaming

service. He also said there would be a

lot less, I think, a lot of cuts, $6

billion in cuts, that he can quickly

delever it. Nobody believes him or

thinks he's capable of doing it. uh

Sarandos had talked more about 16

billion. Let me just tell you Hollywood

uh look out below. This is this is look

I don't think Ellison means to be

incorrect but he is incorrect about

what's about to happen here because the

pressures on this much debt. I talked to

as you know Bill Cohen went because you

weren't around last weekend but this

much debt is enormous amounts of debt.

It's like crazy. They don't have enough

um income to they have barely enough

income so they can't grow. they have to

cut. There's going to be there's obvious

duplication that they will cut. But even

more than that, anything they say at

this point is just absolutely untrue.

It's just and I again I don't think they

mean it that way. I think they believe

it that they can, you know, turn um

into a into chicken into chicken

salad. But most smart math math people

don't think they can do it, especially

with competitors like Netflix breathing

down and YouTube breathing down their

neck. Your thoughts?

>> Well, I I think I've been consistent on

this. The biggest losers are the

creative community. Yeah.

>> They don't realize it.

>> I don't know. Half a million of them

just got lined up and shot.

>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean they're they're the

amount of AI slop we're going to see

come out of Paramount and Warner trying

to pass for, you know, great

breakthrough content. It's just going to

be, like I said, you know, in space, no

one can hear you scream. Oh, trust me,

you're going to hear a lot of people

scream. And the biggest winner, hands

down,

um, and I told Ted this. I said I if you

walk from this, you realize your stock's

going to go up 10%. I was wrong. In the

last 5 days, the stock's up 30%.

>> Yeah. Back to other levels. Yeah.

>> Okay. So, let's look at it this way.

They quote unquote technically save $120

billion by not acquiring it and their

stocks up a hundred billion. Cara, they

could go buy Disney right now.

>> Yeah.

>> For walking from Warner Brothers. So,

and if I were them and I was Ted and I'd

be pissed off, I'd be firing up my

lobbyists and my lawyers and be like,

delay an obvious make it create so much

havoc for this deal to close. And by the

way, every studio, every creative,

they're all going to want to go to work

for one place. Okay. Do I want if I'm

pitching I just had my uh latest book

option for a series and for a

documentary, which means absolutely

nothing I've figured out in Hollywood.

>> Your man, your notes on being a man.

>> Yeah. for an original scripted series

and a documentary. Anyways,

>> think of it as an R-rated Wonder Years

is how I've been pitching it.

>> Who's playing me?

>> Erve Vill

>> uh uh Erve Villiches in a little tiny

sou. I see Shalom plays

>> with a with a puppy German Shepherd.

>> No, Shalom work. He looks like a teenage

boy, too.

>> Anyways, uh

>> Shalom. So,

these guys, the amount of money, um, let

me put this way. Say, say you're in the

creative community and you have the

hottest script or you're the hottest

actor and you have offers from from the

Paramount Studio, from Warner, or from

Netflix, who are you absolutely going to

pick?

>> Netflix.

>> Oh my god, they're going to

>> every day of the week and twice on

Sunday. They look like heroes. You all

hated Netflix. Now you're going to love

them. It's really and and by the way,

when the Democrats come into power,

that's going to be good for

>> HBO just lost 30% of its value because

HBO's asset was it always was able to

punch above its weight class. It did two

billion in content relative to Netflix's

18 billion. But if there was a show

people were talking about around the

water cooler, whether it was Girls or

Euphoria or Game of Thrones or

Succession, it usually was HBO because

HBO's culture and ability when I'm

talking a lot about me, my favorite

subject, but when we pitched my big tech

series, everybody, all the creatives and

all the stars, they all wanted to go

with HBO.

>> Yeah.

>> They love Netflix, but if we had our

choice,

>> Yeah.

>> we would have gone with HBO. Guess what?

That just changed overnight. completely.

I wouldn't do a thing with them. I have

to say I've got some shows I I don't

have no interest.

>> What? So they can figure out how to

produce it for a third of the budget

using AI?

>> Yeah, you. Like and also one of the

things that's interesting is that there

there's there was an interesting

movement. And also I mean I think the

CNN part of it is a smaller part of it.

It still is going to be a lot of news,

right? It's still because it's CNN the

merger and they've already made a mess

of CBS. Um but they're going to make a

bigger mess of CNN. I I have heard from

so many HBO people that are like

like was everything in every like a

dozen HBO people CNN is losing its ever

love and mind right as they should and

they're like they're like what do we do

Cara and I'm like I don't know I'm not

going to be here so it's not like

I was like I don't know what to tell you

but you know I wouldn't work for those

hacks. Um, but one of the things uh

that's interesting is the idea that that

Netflix takes a little bit of this money

and hires like the like Anderson Cooper

and the best of them and creates a

little news service. I

>> they should like a really good one.

>> I talked to the woman who runs content

at and at and Netflix and I said I have

an idea.

>> Bella Bella.

>> Bella. Yeah.

>> Start something called the hour and hire

the twothirds of the people from 60

Minutes that would like to leave right

now.

>> Yeah. and have a show, weekly show

called the hour.

>> I'm like, I'll tell you who's good and

who's not. I like I

>> You don't think all of those people are

looking for a way to get off the get on

the last helicopter out of Saigon right

now?

>> Yeah. And a lot of them want to be

entrepreneurial. It's really

interesting. They they do see the need

to change out. I mean, obviously the

economics of a lot of broadcast and

cable television is out of whack with

the revenues clearly all through the

industry. By the way,

>> Netflix is up 30%. Netflix.

>> Netflix should

>> The market has decided that Netflix is

worth a hundred billion dollars more

>> more by

>> without

>> Yeah.

>> Warner Brothers,

>> you could spend a very little amount of

money putting together a really

interesting news offering. At the same

time, you know, as obviously CBS is

going to go is going right in a really

weak sauce way. It's really kind of

wimpy, right, and stupid, right? But,

uh, I mean, if you're going to be right,

go all the way to Fox. That's my

feeling. like and and it's it's it's an

ever dying audience by the way. Um and I

mean my mom's is a average listener

essentially. She's 92. Um but one of the

things that I think will help

>> Fox is doing really well actually.

>> Yeah, it has. That's right. You're not

going to get you're not catching Fox.

>> Here's a crazy stat. Especially more

moderates watch Fox and CNN right now.

>> Well, I'm not surprised. It's anyway one

of the because the news part is I mean

like Jennifer and there's several people

who are quite good over there but um

there's a lot of great people at CNN and

let me be clear there's a lot of great

reporters throughout that organization

and they do a great job. People tend to

focus on Scott Jennings at night when

there's lots of people but

>> you mean I feel stupider with Abby

Phillips.

>> Okay, stop sound stop Jennings is the

problem over there. So

>> but no CNN is the problem for putting

him on and having crossfire. that that

show is but I'm saying there's a lot

more to CNN than that show. So it gets a

lot of attention but one of the things

that I think is interesting is it really

opens up an opportunity for MS now

because it it they're they're by

themselves over there on the left like

it's a great business right like it's

just it's sort of like the fox of the

left and so they have a huge opportunity

it seems to me

>> if you are in love with tra this I'm not

>> you are in love with traditional media

this is who it's an opportunity for it's

an opportunity small opportunity

>> for Bill Cohen and and and Ben Thompson

and Cara Swisser.

>> I know that

>> you're about to see a massive diffusion

of power from these industrial brands.

>> It's already happening.

>> The means of production is way too

expensive to all these little media

company startups and substacks and

podcasts.

>> I agree.

>> And newsletters and this all this hand

ringing that, oh no, the Washington Post

can't go away. Doesn't matter,

folks. Y

>> those people are going to find their own

little

niche media companies and they're going

to punch above their weight class and

they're not going to be saddled by the

blood sugar level of a guy on human

growth hormone and I just think MS now

by itself being I think CNN should have

been independent would have given an

opportunity to be innovative. They have

an opportunity to be innovative. They

do. They absolutely do. And so that's a

good thing for them because they're

they're all by themselves over there.

>> This is the best use of CNN. We have an

iconic popular Gavin Newsome and he

stacks his cabinet with CNN anchors.

Dana Bash would make a great vice

president.

>> Yeah. Yeah. See, Dana does a great job.

There's a lot of really great there's

amazing people.

>> Michael, I think he could be secretary.

>> Anderson, I think, does a good job.

Every single Caitlyn Collins I have so

much admiration for her.

>> She can be ambassador to the EU. Okay.

Literally, I can pull I can pull

together a cabinet that looks like the

Kennedy administration from CNN

anchors

>> and it would be so much higher than Pete

Dag on any

>> think about it. Janine Pro that's I mean

look who are competing. I'm down I am

down for networks' cabinets at this

point. I think the CNN people are so

impressive.

>> Yes.

>> But they're all about to and they've

been doing this last two years. I'm

thinking about starting a podcast

because they're having the uncomfortable

conversation. I used to make 7 million a

year.

>> Not just CNN, it's throughout the It's

all the media people. They I

>> People anchor off the most money they've

ever made and think that's what I'm

worth. No one ever thinks to themselves,

"Wow, I'm overpaid right now." Guess

what? There's a I can produce I can

>> I can prove to you statistically at any

moment in time there's a 50% chance you

are overpaid right now relative to the

market.

>> I I'm not I'm not favoring media. I just

think it's I always see it as an

opportunity. I always see as an like you

can still do well. It it's a good

business. It makes a lot of profits. You

could do well here and it could give you

an o it gives an opportunity for MS now

to have a lane all to itself. And I

think that's always a good thing. Always

a good thing. And

>> there's Ms. Now stars. Rachel, she's

only one day a week.

>> Rachel, there's a whole bunch over

there. But let me say Rebecca Cutler is

Stephanie. There's a whole bunch of

people over there that are

>> very talented.

>> Uh and they're they're hiring a lot of

great reporters and Rebecca Cutler who

you know know about is amazing. like

she's she's she was heard me at CNN plus

she did at the pl um and and and you

know I think there's lots of opportunity

I think that the the the Ellison's will

bollocks it and coming to you soon to

Cara Swisser docky series Cara Swisser

wants to live forever on CNN. No

kidding. That's coming.

>> I just hope it closes before then so I

can see a photo with you and Larry

Ellison.

>> No, it's not. Listen, it's it's going to

be soon. I will be out I'll be I'll have

removed my my things from the closet

long before then. So curious who they're

going to ask who they're going to.

>> Let me just tell you everybody, Scott

Galloway is in the second episode and

he's looking fine and and it's he looks

it's he's it's an adorable Cara and

Scott moment. Anyway, let's go.

>> That'll save him.

>> That's their answer.

>> A good It's actually a really good show.

I have to say I'm very

>> You have to say your show's really good.

You're going to love this. Uh, I did a

podcast today and they asked me what was

my favorite moment with Cara Swisser and

I said when you and your wife came down

for the weekend and I let you speak pick

the streaming media thing we were going

to watch. Big mistake. You

picked some like art heist from PBS or

like the history of great museum thefts

or something. I

>> Oh, that was a good show. And we're

sitting there and we're all eating and o

over comes white LeBron, your

14-year-old monster.

>> And he sits down and I'm not

exaggerating. We all pop 8 in into the

air.

>> He's bigger than ever.

>> And also the next day you were you were

scolding him like a mother does and you

were literally your neck was craning so

hard up at him.

>> It was like watching mama.

>> It was like watching Billy Barter Barty

lecture Shaquille O'Neal. Yeah. Like I

said to my I said to

>> I I said to my son, I'm like, "Look at

this. Look at this. Look what's going on

over there."

>> Yeah.

>> Anyway, that's right. I should parent

everybody. Anyway, um uh let's go on a

quick break. When we come back, wins and

fails.

>> Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and

fails. What? I can go first if you want.

>> First,

>> I have to say I we talked I talked too

much about Hito Robin, but I thought

Connor's story did a great job uh on SNL

this week. I usually

>> Oh my god, that's my win.

>> What? What? Okay, you take it. You take

it. Let's discuss it. Go ahead. Go

ahead. Take it.

>> I feel that SNL thread uh My win was

SNL. I thought they thread the needle

perfectly

>> this week. Yeah. Not every week. Yeah.

>> They they honored the women's team,

>> but at the same time, I think it's

all the the men have

taken.

>> Yeah.

>> I think for them to Wouldn't it have

been great if you listen to the video?

This was President Trump taking everyone

back to the 50s and mocking women.

>> That is not what we need. We need a more

evolved sense of masculinity that

celebrates great athletic performance.

By the way, eight of 12 medals from the

women.

>> The goal,

the overtime goal, the in my opinion,

one of the great moments in sports

history of the women's hockey team. They

threaded the needle perfectly because I

do think the men got more than they

deserved. I

>> they got they got invaded by Cash Patel.

Let's blame Cash.

>> That's exactly right. But what are they

going to do? What are they going to do?

>> I agree.

>> Anyways, and if you listen to the tape

when when Trump made those wildly sexist

remarks, there were one or two men's

hockey players saying two for two. They

were trying to acknowledge that both the

men's and the women's team

>> and SNL did it perfectly. It they didn't

virtue signal and say, "Yeah, women and

oh that both jokes." They had the women

make the jokes and the men were

>> and the men were there to take it

>> and they were fine with it. They thread

the needle

>> perfectly.

>> And it was critical that Connor's story

was standing in between them. I have to

say he's such a likable person and such

a talented physical comedian. Like his

stripper who got in a car accident was

so funny. Like I I don't believe

they pulled that one off. Um I have I

have to say he is such a delightful

talented.

>> He's a delightful figure. Both of them

are. And

>> I'm telling you, season two like

scorching hot rivalry with the women's

hockey team. Daddy's here for it.

>> Yes. Yes. And I thought the women

handled it well.

>> So well done.

>> Everyone was big. Everybody was big.

>> The writers at SNL are geniuses.

>> And you know who who sucks? Cash

Patel. Why are you invading these guys

win? Like as if you and reflected

glory. You you tubby loser. Like

forget it. Like how dare you. Now now

I'm focused only on Cash Patel. I I I I

really am. I think he's just the worst.

So um uh my fail is is um I think this

this situation with Anthropica. I think

it has to be we are not

>> the same person today. We're literally

the same person.

>> Okay. Right. I think there they are

bullies. I think they use Twitter as a a

way to attack people in a way that's

really unprofessional. You can have

differences and everyone's already

always grabbing for power and grabbing

for money. I get it. It's gone on since

the beginning of time. But the way

you're doing this is all about your

insecured childhood traumas that are

being writ large on the rest of us. This

is not professional. You do not have to

like do this. And they do it as like

keyboard warriors on Twitter. Um I got a

text from I'm not going to say who it

was who said you got the world is

happening on Twitter. You got to be back

here. And I was like I'm not going back

to that Nazi porn bar that enjoys making

children sexual. I was like the world is

not happening on Twitter. The world is

happening in the world, you guys. Like,

you need to get out of your own

way. You are you are you you

have to understand that what you're

doing is damaging to most people and

that we don't want to hear about all

your beefs and all your traumas and

everything else. If Anthropic doesn't

want to do business with you, just let's

move along. Let's just move along. And

I'm sorry you're not as successful as

Daario Amodi or smart Emil Michael, but

you're going to have to live with it as

as being an anxious toad to the

powerful. Stop it. Like that to me is is

the loss. You go ahead.

>> Mine's exactly the same, but I I'll look

at it through a shareholder lens. I'm

looking at a company called Marcado

Libé, which is the Amazon of Argentina.

And one of the reasons I'm looking at it

>> is that effectively when the bricks were

in vogue, you know, the price earnings

multiple of certain Latin American

markets was about 20 and it went down to

eight because all the flows went into US

tech stocks which meant you could you

could increase your earnings two and a

half fold over 10 years and your stock

was flat. You can't outrun multiple

contraction in a market as a stock and

it all under the same opaces and market

dynamics trump individual performance.

At the same time, it's almost impossible

to be wrong when you have multiple

expansion. It has been American

investors. You know, we all think we're

geniuses right now in our 401ks. We have

had multiple expansion since 2008 and

we're about to experience multiple

contraction and we're already

experiencing it. We were 21 out of 23

markets last year on a dollar adjusted

basis. Everyone else outperformed us and

one of the reasons people don't realize

we have just lost trillions of dollars

when the Pentagon starts picking winners

and losers. If which makes weapons

decides that yeah we are going to figure

out we're going to use Silicon Valley

ethos to help the defense department

kill people and people freak out. Well,

guess what? They're allowed to do that.

It's not illegal. They're allowed to do

that when anthropic or excuse me when

when Palunteer says we're going to work

with the government of Israel to track

down terrorists and kill them in their

homes that you may find that

distasteful. It's legal. They're allowed

to do it. And anthropic when they decide

we don't want to provide our services or

data for what we feel is the surveilling

the illegal surveillance of US citizens,

they too are allowed to do that. And

when governments start playing political

favorites in markets, the the rule of

law is no longer applied and your

multiple on companies, your price

earnings multiple begins to contract.

Freedoms and systemic laws and a

separation between government and

business results in higher price

earnings multiples and greater increases

in 401ks and your ability to retire

earlier. And this Pentagon

stationary war on anthropic is going to

cost US investors trillions of dollars

as people decide to go where they know

who they're waking up next to that they

can invest in a company and they do the

assessment based on the laws at hand. Is

this company succeeding or failing based

on the current laws and they don't have

to try and guess what the oneoff

individual laws will be in a few months.

So I have the same

>> same win and same fail.

>> Uh but I look at it as an investor. I'm

now looking at markets.

>> People get angry at the autotocracies in

in China or in the Gulf. They have a

huge respect for the domain or the

sovereignty of investors and having

uniform laws that apply to everyone

equally. And we are now becoming that

nation where we decide which companies

win and lose. And all that means is our

PE. We're about to experience multiple

contraction which you cannot outrun.

>> Not for long. Let me just say you feel

it. Can't you feel it? And speaking of

feeling it, Scott, this has been a great

discussion. I have to say I was a little

worried this morning. Um I was also

tired, but this has been a really great

discussion about these things and

disagreeing in a really uh civil way.

But let me say it's going to continue

because we're going Where are we going?

Scott Galloway on Sunday.

>> Resist and unsubscribe. Big

announcement, fulltime resources, and by

the way, Sam, it's not going to be a

good night for you.

>> No,

>> it's And guess what, Sam? We're talking

about

>> 48 hours.

>> You put Cara Swisser on an invite. In 48

hours, we sold out the pantageous at

thousands.

>> We sold it out. And we want to thank

Tain Danger for doing an amazing job for

us in Minneapolis.

>> He's my favorite porn star.

>> He's your favorite porn star. And he's

an amazing Danger and our staff who's

working really hard. We sold out right

away. We are coming to Minneapolis. We

have special guests. We are very

excited. Um and we will talk about the

next move. Scott will Scott who's the

president of Resist and Unsubscribe. Um

I'm just a helper. Um but we want to

hear from you. Send us your questions

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your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot

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