[Music]

there are very few people

maybe just the five of them on planet

earth

that have gone through what my next

guest has gone through over the last

decade

very very few people on planet earth

that can tell you the stories he can

tell you

and talk to you about the lessons he's

learned liam payne is a

miraculous inspiring complex

very honest very vulnerable very open

book

today he's going to tell you about

things that he probably shouldn't say

and topics that he probably shouldn't

talk about

but just imagine imagine being

catapulted into

stardom at 14 years old and becoming

what many consider to be

the modern day beatles he toured the

world with one direction

they had their ups their downs their

mental health crises

their scandals their relationships and

everything in between you know if i was

16 years old and you asked me what i

wanted to be if i could

you know dream up my life i'd probably

say professional football player

or being in a boy band and traveling the

world seems like a life that we'd all

give everything to have but what you're

going to hear today is very different

and it might just change your mind it

certainly changed mine

so without further ado i'm stephen

bartlett and this is the driver ceo

i hope nobody's listening but if you are

then please keep this to yourself

[Music]

liam crazy crazy year society

all of us have had with this whole

lockdown situation place wanted to start

it's just to ask how it's been for you

it has been interesting i feel like i

got the lock down the first depressive

part of lockdown

a lot later than everybody else because

our work went through the roof

and basically it was interesting because

i had to learn

styling makeup hair all these things

that i wouldn't usually

do when i'm with my team and i lost

everyone because you couldn't have

anyone close contact so i just had me

and a camera guy that was staying with

me

so every job was like i mean we even had

one day where we set up our own green

screen

and we set the green screen up from 1pm

until

10 and then record it till 5 o'clock in

the morning so it was like a whole day

so we were busier than ever and then we

started doing these online shows which

weren't really great

um with a company called veeps which was

good

and then i stopped working which i

thought was going to be really good for

me because i was tired and it was

actually the worst thing in the world

for me when you say you stopped working

describe your day at that point um i

mean i was just finding myself on the

sofa

for the whole day just watching

randomness i've seen everything on

netflix

on your own uh no my partner's there at

the time okay yeah

it was it was it was wild and it was

dark because you can't really go

anywhere you don't really know what

you're doing and

and and and i felt like my career was

kind of in a funny place at that point

as well and how i was agreeable with it

at that time

as well if that makes sense are you the

type of person that needs to be

kept busy i think so i think i've had a

crash course this last year in learning

to have

my own time because i mean you imagine

from from about the age of

16 17 we were daishi every day so when

you don't have a day sheet it's like

what the hell do i

do and then the other part of it's like

you don't really learn what you enjoy

from that point either so it was that

that was quite difficult in lockdown

because you have so much time to

yourself

and then it was like i saw something the

other day about toxic

productivity did you see this i've seen

this obviously they got a new ism

yeah for everything but it actually made

sense to me if i'm not doing something

that's

that's productive i feel like i'm going

backwards so that i'm trying to make i'm

trying to force moves and i suppose that

was one of the things i think i learned

most about myself i don't have to be

doing something every day to feel

good about myself where does that come

from do you think that need to feel like

you're moving forward

or it feels like backward motion i have

no idea i think i'm just quite driven in

that sense

have you always been like that since

before one direction

you know i think we we just always

worked like i started

i was first on tv at 14. so that's young

it was tweaking an audience specs which

i think that point was like 20 million

people which was wild

so i was like 14 years old so from then

on my life's just been like

doing the same thing over and over and

over again until this point so i don't

know

at times you fall out of love with it

and i think that that trying to find

you know and also you're not under any

impression this isn't going to stop at

some point

like a a life span for a average pop

star i've been i've

outlived most lifespans with that sort

of thing which has been amazing

really really cool and i think part of

that's probably from starting so young

but

you know it's going to end at some point

so you always want to find something

else that you're good at

so it's kind of safety cushioning

this is what investing has been my

god-sending that because i started that

really young as well and trying to think

about how i would do this or how i do

that asking like

you know like our old managers and and

people like that what they invest in and

stuff like that which

kind of makes me feel safer and does

that that comes from a plate like mild

paranoia that this

might go someday right 400 it's like

doomsday profit like probably

you know do you worry a lot generally

uh i think i did

up until the last few months i mean

having a lot of time i think a lot of

people had this same sort of thing

alcohol it was just really it was

getting earlier and earlier

yes easier and easier to go to and for

me i don't know i

it's i think there's there's a slight

little bit of social anxiety as well in

it that

you know it was already hard sometimes

to go out places for the thought that

you might like

packed or whatever you know there's

always that extra level of stress so for

me i've always been quite

withdrawn so talking about lockdown so

you go through that sort of depressive

period

i think we all went through that and i

think um for me what i kept thinking

about is like

if you just um go with the lockdown

you're like someone like me would just

probably like hang around bed on my lap

you know my laptop what i had to do was

like proactively

steve get up and do something today go

put your shoes on [ __ ] you know

what i mean

but then the thing what i found about

that was sometimes

you ain't superman and you're gonna have

a bad day and my thing is if i don't set

out with my

aiming to do that day then i become more

depressive that makes sense

but it's just like i think the main

thing for me i mean i've always called

it like a small victories thing and

that's why i love the gym

because if i've at least been to the gym

that day then i've done something

but then i started to like branch that

out more that it was called a family

member you know i spend some time with

my son make sure i get face timing

because it was the first point of it we

couldn't see each other it was the

longest i haven't seen my son in a long

time

um which was difficult but then it was

like as long as i've done one of those

things in the day then it doesn't matter

if i didn't do anything else

and it's like what i found more than

anything

at least with alcohol with all the stuff

it's like boundaries there were no

boundaries

so you know if you're on zoom you can

quite easily hide that you might be a

little bit tipsy at the point you

shouldn't be

so it was like creating your own

boundaries creating your own routines

and that's where i think everybody

struggled

the most without routine and i noticed

you had a dog here yeah which at the

moment that's one of my things i think

i'm definitely going to get a dog

because i need

routine i need it so you start you start

drinking more and more during the

lockdown you realize you get you're

aware i put on so much weight i was

eating badly

and kind of described describing it as a

bulking period

it was a dirty bulk don't worry about

intentional i'm doing it for a movie

role

yeah that's the best new new excuse if

anyone asks you put weight yes for a

roll

it's coming out you know 20 20 too um

yeah and i put a lot of weight on and

what got me i did one performance on tv

it was with the baftas actually

and i was disappointed myself but like i

was always a fairly sporty kid and kept

moving and like

i didn't look how i wanted to look you

know what i mean there's anything wrong

with that but just in your own self you

know how you feel about it and obviously

they say the camera adds 10 pounds it

definitely did

um and i saw myself for the first time i

was like oh my god like i've completely

let myself go in this

and it was fine i kind of needed it and

actually it's been the best outcome for

me because i feel so much more

secure in myself now and i feel like i

know where i'm at again which is good

have you struggled to maintain

consistency with the gym

i know i have if you look like i did i

did i mean

training partners is the best one for

that you know and and

each of you put putting a session

together and throwing in different moves

because then you're doing something

that's a bit different you know i mean

we recently

my training partner i got to like a

point where we're like a stalemate with

the stuff that we're doing so then we we

started like branching out to different

gyms and they have different kit and

then

you know um but i'm fair i'm fairly good

with keeping myself

on the go with it um i mean

like i said the only problem for me was

just alcohol you can't train and drink

and anything you can't do it all at once

you're gonna be a rock star are you

gonna be a star industry yeah that's

your choice

and do you think you've gotten a bit of

a sort of addicted personality in that

regard where you'll get into something

and just go all the way i mean

as an as an addict i want to say no but

i know i definitely

do um yeah 100 i i think but

there's a lot worse things to be

addicted to than then look after

yourself

so yeah what's been the the upside for

you a lot of people listening to this

well especially coming out of lockdown

now there's a lot of people that weren't

able to go to the gyms because they were

closed

and now that you know some people just

need that little bit of a push

to understand what the value is of the

gym um and what's it what's the value of

the gym been

in your life i think because you're

going twice tonight the value of the gym

yeah yeah i mean i wouldn't call the

first one

the first one's more of like a wake up

let's call it a vinyasa like a yoga type

i the first day i went to the gym in

lockdown i went and looked at the gym

because i was like if i go in there and

start moving around and throwing stuff

and whatever else

then i'm i'm not going to want to go the

next day and you have to slowly build it

up but don't go in and think you need to

do

45 minutes because they're running the

magazine that they said this there's no

quick route for me it's three you need

three months for any significant

change that you have and then it's like

start 20 minutes

15 minutes just go and feel it out and

then you'll find

after a while the exercises you're like

oh my god i only have five more minutes

in here and i need another five minutes

and guess what you can have them

so then it's slowly like we've got we're

up to you know an hour an hour and 10

minutes now so it's like from

starting at 15 20 minutes but for me

it's just

like i say it's been able to get into

bed at night and have that small victory

to know

at least i did this and it was for me it

wasn't for anybody else

that's i think that's important and

you're not doing it to try and

get a sick i mean everyone's doing it

low key to try and get six-pack but

you're doing it because

it's a lifestyle decision for your yeah

i mean i recently started

jiu jitsu and it's for me i want to be

able to do

what a lot of these guys are doing like

the funny thing jiu-jitsu is super

humbling because you just get thrown

around like

it's like a tiger eating a gazelle or

something i mean

it's wild so it's like as soon as it

happens and i was always quite a small

dude i've never been like a big guy um

i mean even when i did my underwear

commercial i was still like

80 i think i was 75 kilos which is super

light right super life so

when i'm in the gym people are like

throwing me over here and i'm like i'm

going that way today am i then i'm over

here and it's like

so i put i didn't want to put some

weight and i put too much weight on at

one point i was like

right i went alpha leather but it's more

for the the

fitness side and the jujitsu side that

i'm training as hard as i am

if you want to come in and meet guests

like liam and myself we've now had two

subscribers come in and watch from

behind the scenes

we're going to start picking more so all

you've got to do if you want that to be

you

is hit the subscribe button i wanted to

ask you some advice

i've been announced as a dragon on

dragon's den and how do you feel about

that by the way

it's pretty cool it's cool because

you're a dragon like when some kids want

to grow up being a dragon yeah

yeah i know i i watched it when i was

12. so it came out when i was 12. i used

to watch it and i've never missed an

episode wow that doesn't matter

i said to the team i used to pretend i

was a dragon sit there

pause the tv give my verdict at 13 years

old

all this stuff um the bit i wanted to

ask your advice on

is when it was announced you know i had

my little moment 15 seconds where like

all of the press talk about you your

twitter blows up

lots of attention what advice would you

give to me

about dealing with this kind of noise

because you i mean

there's not many people on planet earth

that have dealt with

noise like that right

i think don't it's a really fine line

between getting too wrapped up in what's

going on and

not being wrapped up enough in it if you

know what i mean really i think i think

you know the things that hurt you the

most because you know they're honest

so when someone says something new like

if they hurt you then you hurt you a lot

then you know there's some truth in it

because it hurt you if it's ridiculous

you just go that was funny

as if they said that you know what i

mean really so i think there's a there's

a fine line to tread with it and i mean

i've gone through eras where i was just

like a little clap back

attitude driven you responding where as

soon as someone would say something i'd

be like right well then

let's go with you and then i was i mean

i was a bit mean and nasty at points

actually it was a bit bad but

when you're a teen growing up in it and

people are like basically bullying you

and they get paid for it it's like

that's a bit outrageous so i'm gonna

have my say

who's got the biggest mountain you know

what i mean but then it's like someone

said to me over time it's like

you know if someone says something about

me in the press in this country and then

i say something about them

it ends up on e news and then they've

made america i didn't get anywhere

so it's like don't bring people up to

your level if you don't think you unless

you absolutely have to and one thing i

would say

don't lose your phone doing this notes

if someone

pisses you off write a note about it as

if you were writing them a letter and

then let it go

just don't send it and then it gets all

your

well you would tweet out but you don't

say it

that was the best thing i ever did it

was the best thing i ever did

really yeah so pop open your notes then

i just remembered one imagine [ __ ]

out no it's crazy because you read stuff

and i was saying to you

before we start filming like i've got a

baby apparently and a wife and then

you know yourself i know you're doing

really well yeah and i just thought

you know it's crazy that um there's not

a high regard for truth

you know what i was actually on the way

into this i wanted to speak about this

because

obviously there's a lot in the in the

world at the moment about freedom of

speech and the press freedom of speech

which i agree with right we should we

don't need to dictate laws

my only problem is and my biggest

problem around corona

was the fact that the media were allowed

to twist our

thinking about corona as much as they

wanted to and they're still doing it now

but the fear mongering isn't helping

anyone

you know and these people aren't sat

there i know i've just written a great

article my boss is going to promote me

oh yeah but you just decrease the value

of the pound

so your wages that you think are worth

more are now worth less

well it's a struggling industry right i

just don't get it i'm like

if it's a medical thing and it's the

world that is in trouble

maybe there should have to be something

in place that says this is true

or not that they have to put a

disclaimer and say you should take

advice from your local government

[ __ ] like we all read you for advice

and you are offering us a disservice by

telling us non-truths about stuff it

should be regulated

yeah i get that there's a hairdresser's

account for me for people going oh my

god i can't believe what that liam

payne's done this week

what's he done now you know i get that

but for corona

yeah yeah we don't need to be going oh

yeah have you read the thing about this

new variant that's come from over the

border yeah i can't believe it

like someone from america phoned me the

other night like oh you're gonna be able

to come here soon i'm like

no i ain't no chance but we don't none

of us know we're all confused because

we're being

spouted fear which i just think is

terrible social media doesn't help

either because

there's screenshots knocking around

whatsapp group saying all sorts of

yeah i mean that as much as this

technology advancing on us

it's like this slow road i mean it's

almost like the coins

thing at the moment with the the

bitcoins like there's some coins they're

actually seriously there to do a job in

the ship and then there's like the

[ __ ] elon musk coin yeah there's nothing

but just disrespect to love

like five billion like a bunch of like

it's

actually nuts um you said earlier you

made a comment you said that um

your partner at the time in referring to

lockdown does that mean you are

i am indeed you're single yep me and you

both

where are we going no i'm saying to

myself

i feel like i feel like more than

anything at this point i'm more

disappointed in myself

for the keep on hurting people

that annoys me i've just been not been

very good at relationships and i know

what my pattern of things

is with relationships i feel at this

point i'm just not very good at them so

i just need to like work on myself

before i put myself onto somebody else

and i feel that's what you know that's

why i got to my last relationship i just

wasn't given

a very good version of me anymore that i

didn't appreciate and i didn't like

being

and i can honestly say that i feel

better out of it i didn't feel good for

doing what

what i did but it had to happen i mean

that's the

corniest way of saying that was the best

for both of us whatever cool story bro

but it just feels like that very

self-aware for you to know that

you were oh yeah no i know it was a

problem so

i need to sort myself out and i already

feel good so

it's got me more concentrated you know

and i hope she's happy

what is it you've discovered about

yourself in relationships that you're

trying to work on

you know what i mean

one of our old managers went to therapy

from being a manager of one direction so

we can imagine how that feels like the

rest of us definitely need some

and for me most part i was really

regressing from

therapy because everyone was pushing me

into it which is the worst thing you can

do

like it's almost like becoming sober for

instance you have to want to be sober

to start with not people taking your

toys away and you're going oh my god so

it kind of felt like that whereas this

time i kind of threw myself into it

even though i didn't want didn't really

want to inside i threw myself into it

made my own choices and

i think for me my life's been so

controlled to a point

day sheets security guards you know

anything and it's all

everybody else is dictating puppet

master crap over the top of your life

then you just get to point where it's

like you have to take some control by

yourself and until i

started to do that with my life then i

was living for everybody else

and i'm a complete people pleaser anyway

so it was like nothing in my life was

about

serving myself which then that just put

me in a bad place and finding enjoyment

from other stuff that i don't need

what did because i've always considered

therapy

for a bunch of reasons and the thing is

it's still such like a

taboo kind of crazy thing and i get it i

do get it i was i mean i was on the

phone to louis from my band talking

about it today and it's like

there was one moment last week and i

mean my manager's my best friend he's

been saying to me for a long time you'll

have that one awakening in the middle of

it where you'll think about stuff

tonight

i mean i hate words like awakening and i

hate this like hollywood perception of

like

reflective work what the [ __ ] is that

you know what i mean but i get it but at

the same point i'm like

i don't know you keep it for you but

it's like i had this one moment that

that i found and i was like oh my god

that's just unlocked so many truths

about me and it was so insignificant

for something that happened when i was

younger and it was so to me it was like

a family joke

but now i'm like oh my god i've been

living my whole life as that character

and

yeah wild wild you'll love it scary

really scary you don't know what you're

gonna find it's like no that's it it's

wild but

i'm i'm so glad that i one went through

what i went through this year

and two that you know i think this

year's forced something out of all of us

and for me it forced me to really look

at my life and go

what the f are you doing like grow up

and that was the point

and you say don't try to work on that

but did you regressed from therapy

yeah i always turned away from it and i

was always like oh i don't i don't need

therapy i'll sort myself out

you know your own worst enemy at that

point i'm really keen to understand

what makes you a difficult you know

specifically what makes you a difficult

person today i ask this question

because i'm difficult to put a few

people in it

coming on down his best friend oh my god

every ex-girlfriend we've got a behind

the curtain

now that would be a weird room imagine

that drops down in there

oh my god

what would be the the consistent theme

as to why you're difficult today if

i think i i think my problem i struggle

to be on my own sometimes

really yeah struggle be on my own and i

think i'd dive in and out of

relationships too quickly

and i've not had to spend enough time on

my own to really learn

about myself if that makes sense i

honestly just need a minute

i need to check myself but i'm really

i'm really keen so you

needed to spend some time on your own to

kind of understand yourself because in a

relationship context you find

that you kind of you're in and you're

out a little bit too much is that what

you're saying

yeah and i i i don't know i think the

biggest problem we have

i'm proper perfectionist terrible

terrible terrible

so when it comes down to relationships

i'm always trying to star the

relationship as we all do you put out

this complete false character yes like i

might as well go in costume

that's why i'm like putting out

something that he's not there

is the person is absent from the room

it's like they tag teamed on the way in

on oh it's you for this bit yeah

i'll join in later on and uh i just yeah

i just need to stop doing that and then

kind of like one

encompassing someone else's life with

your crap rather than like

just doing your thing and laying out

your store from day one that's my

biggest problem and i feel for my for

myself i don't lay out my store

i'm like willing to bend to someone

else's store and then i'm annoyed at why

they don't like what i like

amen so then i'm like oh okay but if i

just laid out the stall early on and

like

yeah i go up at 5am and go for a run

well how are we going to deal with that

so he's either in or it's not you know

what i mean it's not not to not

compromise

because some things you'll be like okay

that annoys you fine but

yeah for me i don't i don't do that i

lay out a completely different

it's like a war worth when you wanted an

artist or you know

that's i've really debated that i'm

gonna

personally especially recently because

the girl i was into

is very into everything that i'm not

into

like like she's into like horoscopes and

like i don't know what's wrong with us

whatever i don't know so i'm there like

[ __ ] looking at horoscopes being like

no yeah

because you're trying to make spiritual

people scare me

but at the start of a relationship you

become more like them they become more

like you and then there's a couple of

weeks months pass

you just regress to actually who you

actually are well you almost like i feel

like i hide resentments

from people sometimes and i'm like

something annoys me and i'm like oh

no it's fine but instead i'm thinking

jesus christ i wish she didn't do that

and then so then it's like then over

time i'm like every little thing starts

creeping in and i did this in my job

really badly because i would bend to my

job

and let my job overtake things that i

didn't like doing steve will vaccinate

like videos for stuff

and rather than going no until one day i

just was like i hate everything

and now it's almost gone back the other

way now i've had to still reset that

like i'm starting to call people in to

do what i want to do rather than bending

to everybody else's stuff

you know and this cr you'll probably

experience the same in this you're

pulled every which way

you know and it's always about

impressing whoever's behind the lens

whoever's in the audience so i find i

feel conversations with crap that i'm

saying that

doesn't really help me because i'll go

home thinking why the hell did i say

that

what now i'm that guy oh my god you know

and then and then it's like but i was

saying it because i thought it would

entertain the other person

it wasn't about me stupid

it's really fascinating that you're so

self-aware of all these forces at play

because it feels like you've spent a

long time really analyzing and looking

at your behavior i think that

that can that can have its benefits and

it can have its problems as well i think

i'm like over critical at points but you

know

you can't win everything being a

perfectionist

yep it's an issue yeah what how

to talk to me about what that means

specifically in your life in work

in relationships steve in everything

steve's manager who sat behind the

camera

um i feel like we should publish

i know what i love about this is that

but steve my fans think that like

steve's like doing something to me so

they're always like oh liberty fellaini

he always looks for steve but it's only

because i like him

because not because he's like harming me

as a person but then there's like a

hashtag liberty for liam like they think

i'm like

sort of like prison child there's going

to be all these other people who are

just listening on the audio and think

you're calling my name

steve

so my one thing i really got into over

over lockdown was art

and drawing oh interesting something

i've done since i was younger and

the point was find something to do that

doesn't make you money

was the whole point of the exercise i

was like okay cool draw it

i said to the person who gave me the

advice at the time i was like i

guarantee this turns into something

hold for later on in the conversation um

so i started drawing but then what i

found was

i was so bad at starting the task blank

sheet of paper and all that

because i was so worried about what

might come out that i was like i'd sit

there like if something's not quite

right i like

it can ruin my day in a drawing if

something goes wrong and it's not quite

right i'm like oh my god

like i hate it that's the kind of thing

and how did that go okay i mean the

thing is once i got started and got onto

some stuff but then it was like

sometimes in that respect then i was

drinking to draw pictures because i was

so

in my own freaking way and it's the same

writing songs as well you can do the

same thing with everything you can trade

out all that crap

and it's like that's why you know people

might smoke a bit or do whatever when

they

when they make a track but it's all

about getting out your own way and i

feel like

now i feel much more like i know who i

am and i know what i want to do so i

don't need to be in my own way i'm going

to go

you know i don't need these additives

they only make me worse anyway

in the long run right oh my god yeah

tonight today it might help but tomorrow

it's going to it's probably

true and are you still drinking reviews

no not some no no i've been sober just

over a month now i think it is

hey my business partner he um when we

started the business

became an alcoholic about three four

years in because it was just too tough

and then he had like

severe suicidal ideation he actually

didn't tell me at the time and this is

why i was reading about your story

i could relate to so much of it because

he i didn't

say what i was going through to him he

didn't say it to me and then it was like

after we'd solved the business that he

was like i used to stand on the train

platforms and think about jumping in

front of the train

and i was like and he never told me and

but there was and you

i didn't know what alcoholism or really

mental health was at the time

but i'd go downstairs 3am in the morning

and i'd open up the laundry room

and he's in there with a bottle of wine

at 3am the lights are off and he's just

drinking it

sat on the clothes i'm like get off my

[ __ ] clothes

i was like what the hell is going on but

you know and i read similar things

similar sort of

story or narratives in your story where

you know you were having moments of that

that kind of like ideation

you were having moments of suicidal

ideation and yeah i mean

there's there's some stuff that i've

definitely like never never spoken about

to do with it it was really really

really severe

and it was a problem and and and it was

only until i saw myself after that i was

alright i need to fix myself

there's a few pictures of me on a boat

and i'm all like blowing out and i call

it pills and boo's face

and i was like this like my face was

just like 10 times more than it is now

and i just didn't like myself very much

then i made a change and the same thing

happened this year with with that sort

of thing as well but

the problem we had in the band and i

don't blame anybody for this i don't

want to seem like i'm whining or moaning

oh my god look at my life whatever

but it feels to me like when we were in

the band the best way to secure us

because of how big it got

was just lock us in our rooms and of

course what's in the room minibar

so at a certain point i thought well i'm

going to have a party for one and that

just seemed to carry on throughout

many years of my life and then you look

back how long you've been drinking and

stuff you're like jesus christ that's a

long time

even for someone who's you know as young

as i was um

it was wild but it was like the only way

you could get frustration out in the day

or

being like trapped and you know i spoke

about to somebody about this and

in child development you know as a teen

the one thing you need is

is freedom to make choices and freedom

to do stuff and it was the one thing

that

although we could do anything we wanted

it seemed from the outside that we were

always

locked in a room at night and then it

would be car hotel room stage

sing blocked so it was like they pulled

the dust cloth off let us out for a

minute and then

and then he's like back underneath here

and i'm like so crazy because

you're right the public will think the

absolute opposite we think uh

one direction those guys have got total

freedom

all the money and what they can do

anything everyone's you know in their

nine-to-five jobs just thinking i'd love

to have that level of freedom that liam

payne has

to do anything but you can't do anything

right it's the opposite no i mean

because we were young i mean i actually

wanted to speak to you about this then

as well

so obviously you've reached

stratospheric heights young age it's

like

what i found was i didn't know i was the

boss until a long

until like a few months ago i still

don't even feel like i am now like i'm

such a child

and everyone i work with is like don't

be right older than me and wiser than me

and i'm like what the hell am i doing

here with these people

so it's like you you you know when we

were 17 i thought the security guard was

like in charge of me like i was like oh

can we leave the room no

okay then not to worry i'll just stay

here that's what it was like so i didn't

know what the hell i was doing

you know what i mean it's like and no

one there's no guidebook they don't give

you a little

dvd on the way and saying here you're a

pop star this is what you got to do

so i'm like in the room like what are we

allowed to leave and then eventually

that becomes

like an angry person and i was because

there was points where it was toxic and

it was difficult

don't get me wrong we had the best time

ever we did

but there was moments where

through you know i mean there's a

there's a big movement on it at the

moment and people overworking and

like you don't realize you have a choice

at that point

but in those shows sometimes they don't

give you the choice because you want the

dream but you have to realize

there is a sacrifice for that you know

rather than it just and like i say i

never want to come on on these things

and whine about stuff like i made my own

choices in life

you know being an alcoholic doing

whatever else that weren't my choice

so you know it it doesn't have to be

whiny but it's just like

there was a sacrifice and i know what i

did sacrifice to be here

you know everything what i've come to

learn

everything in life all the good [ __ ]

comes with a cost

oh and i've i've learned just from my

own experience like

my success my sex is very different from

yours we went very different paths

but came with a clear cost because you

can't go from being uh

18 year old kid that's like nick in

chicago town pizzas to feed himself

to being to building a company by 300

million within six seven years

what a great sentence that was by the

way like i was a [ __ ]

loser like loner like i was in my room

first summers upon summers

on my own for just you know because i

couldn't my parents weren't talking to

me they said don't call us and to go

back to university years on my so he

wasn't speaking to my family

no friends because i couldn't even

afford to see him that was the cost for

me and what that made is someone who

again isn't very social on the weekends

i spend

99 of my time alone and people are like

oh my god i'd love to be i'm like well

and then and then i have the same thing

you have which is my brain is always has

a thousand tabs open and i can't just go

and sit on a sun lounge during

tan like tan tiny nights what's my brain

gonna do then

sitting in the bathtub as well but

that's it you're right and you know what

like think about someone as simple as

someone who like plays guitar

the amount of time you have to spend

alone with that instrument you're gonna

be missing a couple of other things that

happen in life exactly

and that's what it's like exactly and

that's for us for us as teams growing up

you know i think people like i said i

started at 14.

that's nuts like i was in my school i

remember very clearly the moment that

that that x factor like moment happened

when i was when i was younger

and i was playing football on a field

and we had an all-girls school right

next door to us

so i'm just playing football like it's a

normal day i've had a few like people

like shout me out on the street where i

was like oh i'm you know

14 years old the whole school from the

other school

is on the fence i'm like banned from

that field for life

at first how does it feel it was wild

but what their people

dialed yeah it was it was amazing i was

like i went from like

zero to like i was the you know it was i

think

i always say it's people i wasn't world

famous when i was 14 but i was famous

within my world

so it's like well i didn't leave

wolverhampton and everybody in

wolverhampton knew the hell i was so i

couldn't go anywhere

so you know and at that point i can't

afford a security guard i'm not special

enough to have any of these like

additives

i'm still on the 7948 to

you know my little my little christian

school and then

what happened over time is and

you know people are people they they do

what they do but there was there was one

significant moment for me

where i knew that i lost it and i wasn't

gonna go back on x factor to be in the

band which would have been wild by the

way

i would not have been here right now um

but there was a moment i was in a

mcdonald's with like a new girlfriend i

had at the time

and it had been two years since the show

and i noticed my

shows decreased in number decreased in

capacity

and decreased in wages so i was like

down and out at this point so i've had

fame and lost it and i'm like

nearly 16 years old so that's difficult

to deal with anyway at that age and then

i'm in mcdonald's

because everyone still knows who i am

i'm sat there and i literally remember

about take a bite this nice juicy burger

someone on the stairs goes

x factor reject and the whole restaurant

looks at me right i'm

15 years old and it was just horrible

what a scumbag thing to say

i know but it was like that's that's the

thing it's like it was almost

like a shout out to say oh you think

you're special but you're still here

in the most wolverhampton i guess you've

got to understand where that comes from

though from that person

what's going on well someone said

something to me today it's not what you

do it's what's happened to you

which i thought was quite i like that

quick interjection

as you know you'll sponsor this podcast

and i've been the biggest evangelist and

customer of the brand for for many many

years i drink cure

for a set of very clear reasons if i

don't drink heal

i skip meals because i'm very very busy

and the meals that i end up skipping it

for um don't tend to be the most sort of

nutritionally complete fuel is

nutritionally complete

it means that in sometimes in 20 seconds

i can get

a meal in a bottle that tastes great

that's going to take care of my health

and for me

as you would have known if you've

listened to this podcast for some time

my health is my first foundation

today you'll have released a new product

it's the huel protein

powder 20 grams of protein in a hundred

calories roughly tasty as [ __ ] and it's

vegan

highly highly recommend trying it i've

tried it i love it

and i'm going to evangelize it for about

it from now on

so tell me what happens from there so

you i don't want to go too much into it

because i know you get asked this stuff

all the time

so we don't want to go over old tracks

but that was your first sort of

experience with fame you then kind of

you feel it declining ice cube says some

stuff to you in the mcdonald's

live life carries on and then uh yeah on

the point because i really want to get

to this i know you're working on this

nft project

yeah and it's based around this feeling

of being it's based around the idea of

this

it was it was like a i want to call it a

syndrome i don't know what it was

someone told me something about

fame you enter fame the age

you you leave fame the age you entered

it so for me that was 14 right so i'm

screwed

like i'm the 14 year old forever child

so that was always a big fear of mine

that i have to grow

properly now from what one direction

gave me i grew

massively in some respects to the point

that yeah i mean you all have

experiences when you have conversations

about

business deals and i'm the director of

like i was a director of a half a

billion dollar

industry at 22. and i'm like what the

hell does that mean all it meant was i

got to sign 10 times more forms than

anybody else

wild right so but then in other things

like if i'm trying to pay car insurance

i'm useless

so that you don't grow in other aspects

of your life because you have other

people

do crap for you like picking up my post

i'm the worst person in the world i just

forget about it you know that must lead

you

open to be to be taken advantage of

right because they know that there's

some things you don't know like you're

saying

oh yeah yeah that's it and you're you're

deluded in your growth of whatever but

this is where the nft idea kind of came

from and it but it first started as this

this little drawing that i did and now i

wanted to make my own character because

i was like i'm really good at drawing

but we have printers for that i don't

need to be a printer so then i was like

i need to make something so i made this

like

ethereal creature that was i wanted to

3d print and stick in a uh like crystal

glass

box and the idea is that he's depressed

that he's it's like a wasp in a beer

glass type thing

ah okay magical creature can't get out

sort of thing so then we kind of came up

with this peritoneus idea

around fame and what does that lead to

and for me the way it speaks to me and

the way the art speaks to me

is that i was afraid of the idea of

losing

you know having keeping the child with

me i was trying to it was like a monkey

on my back trying to get rid of him

whereas for now the idea for me is more

based around you know how do i enjoy

that

because what i love when i see my son

is that he can be whatever he wants in

that moment you know i'll be over the

house and he's like you're a bad guy i'm

a good guy

and i'm like that's great and then the

next day he's

one of them girls from frozen no no i'm

doing this it's magic powers today and

i'm like wow

like we lose that and that's a lot of my

problem when i'm sitting doing a task or

whatever

the belief system in me has been trodden

on through life that much that now i've

forgotten about that

they have the ability to do whatever the

hell they want so why would you ever

want to

lose the child within you in that sense

wow

and that's coming out as an nft soon

coming out as an nfc

uh in like two weeks i think it's quite

scary it's wild because i just made it i

made it one day in lockdown and then

sent it to my manager and we enjoyed the

pieces it was but then it just kind of

grew into this thing at the same time

that nfts were growing

right that's the thing i mean have you

how many people ask you what nfts are by

the way

um so many of them a lot of people like

i'll get dms all the time and you know

i'll try and describe what it is but

i think if you say something with enough

conviction people just believe it anyway

so i'm like you know broccoli yeah i'm

like no i'm just saying anything

yeah i know what it is i've studied it

i'm working on a few projects at the

moment with nfts but um

i'm just you know with all these

emerging technologies and whenever

something's new

i'm kind of like probably a little bit

like you and christian i know you're

very very entrepreneurial and

investing a lot now um i just want to

be in there like a sponge so i want like

a

a flag in there just so i can learn so

yeah

well i mean i think that's a common

misconception about this sort of thing

as well

is that you always come up with the idea

that's coming to you rather than like

you say being that sponge in the middle

of the room

if you're not part of the million dollar

conversation you were never part of the

[ __ ] conversation

and that's literally it's like be in the

moment like rather than trying to make

decisions or

you just have to learn about that stuff

and you don't have to know everything

you just have to know someone that does

know something you know what i mean yeah

the thing is you get older i think the

wildest thing is that people

those phrases that they used to say to

you as kids like when i had my child

my mom's saying to me oh like you're

growing up so quickly like blinking

you'll miss it

and like you're a kid you're like yeah

i'm sick so i chill out but then as you

get older you're like watching it and i

watch my song i'm like oh my god

yeah he's telling me off now

they grew up so fast my niece i mean

i've got a child of mine according to

the daily mail but you know just like

this where did you get those legs from

um i've been teaching mine to swim i

mean we had a really good conversation

today and it's like it's a whole new

learning experience once again there's

no handbook

and you're just like out there on your

own i still feel like a child in so many

ways

as you've learned from my nfc yeah yeah

but i'm watching him and like i played

him a trailer a movie trailer it was

this simple i played him trailer for a

thing and we watched it

and we both like i like that let's stick

that on it was just disney's

rayo and the dragon thing it was about

you

you and your newfound friend and uh

so we sat there and then i turned the

film on and the first shot of the film

was from the trailer

he's going why are you playing this

again i'm going no no it was

we watched a trailer no but why is it on

the tv again

and it kept like bits get flashing and

i'm like oh my god this is not helping

me

so then i'm like okay let me how do i

explain this i was like you know like if

we like have a plate food

and like i feed you a little bit and

then you go oh and you don't want it

then i take it away or if i feed someone

you go oh yeah and i give you the whole

thing

i was like that's like this and then

he's going

yeah but why are we watching it again

you must do you get scared as a dad

about doing the wrong thing or the right

thing because you say there's no

handbook so you're like

if you feed him this or if you say this

he's going to start saying the c word

at school like i do oh when he did swear

once i was happy i wasn't around for it

because i couldn't be blamed

and there's a way to root out find out

whose swear word it is

because it wasn't a combination i would

use oh really so i knew it wasn't me

mummy who was it who was it we won't go

into that

you said i don't normally loop back but

there was something you said which

which again my mind thought oh that's

really intriguing is you said that you

weren't going to reapply for the x

factor

potentially where do you think you would

be

and i'm going to ask you various

iterations of these questions where do

you think you'd be in your life now

if you hadn't have applied for the x

factor so you won the business plan

that's what yeah yeah that's what you

really want to hear do you want to hear

this

yeah you know hey i'll lay out for you

this is this is my this is actually my

like plan b systems range child okay

so i got a job at the same time this is

really wild

work experience week at school my dad

worked at a factory and i was always

obsessed i was like this is adult lego

and he built aeroplanes i was like this

is amazing i'm gonna do that

so i went and i built airplanes and they

had like a little collection for me

different i did like 400 quid and

everyone i was like what did you get

paid for your work experience so i was

like

nothing i was like oh i got like 500

quid but in the middle of my work

experience i went on x factor so it was

almost like i was trialing

my two lives almost like uh what's that

sliding doors film or whatever it's

called a butterfly effect or oh yeah

yeah so my thing was i got a job and

secured one

there for an apprenticeship which was

like 22 000 a year or something

and then i was like right i know my

sister paid 60 pound board at the house

so if i just like board at my parents

house it's 60 pound in fees

then i can save up the other money

enough to buy my first house and then

rent it out

all right so i was gonna collect the

rent buy another one and then move into

that one and then it was almost like a

conveyor belt system nice you had it all

planned out i had it ready to go

and then x factor room i mean you say

your your favorite tv program was

dragons then mine

was i watched help my house is falling

down and location location location and

stuff like that when i was a kid i was

like

obsessed yeah and then for enough my

manager does

loads of properties are you in the odds

are you into property i love property

really i i wasn't very good at it at the

start but i'm getting better

you need to teach me some stuff because

i have zero properties i'm renting this

place um

i was going to say to you um with them

when you do a show like x factor

what a lot of the sort of people that

come out the other end of these shows

often say especially i mean very few

have had the success that you've had

right

but i can imagine and i think i've i

think i might have read this somewhere

before maybe from little mix

is you you feel somewhere in you that

you still have something to prove

because

talk to me about that i mean because

your success was

is just stratospheric it's like in a

league of its own

it's wild so to hear that you feel like

you still have something to prove

is surprising well i mean i think

there's a problem that

us as people we all want something that

we feel like we made

but the older i get and the more things

i'm like privy to

you don't really make anything on your

own ever like i think it's just about ed

sheeran the rights on his own even he

doesn't write music on his own so it's

like

for one that feels a little bit like

that because you were in the band and i

suppose

for each of us as members we wanted to

see what we could do and i you know i'm

really happy with my success

as well what i don't know is

how how much of this idea was was mine

to go with as to be in the music career

you know you worry about like the life

that you might have missed over i was

gonna do this whatever

i always quite like the idea of the army

as a kid that's something i definitely

wanted to do sas

yeah i love the idea of the army and

boxing's another one i mean i've been

i've been fortunate to have a bunch

of fun stuff um but yeah i think you

always feel like you have something to

prove and i think the end of the day

you're just you're only really proving

it to yourself because no one else

really cares everyone else just looks at

you as what it is

and it's not that you want to beat your

brand because no one will beat

our one direction not one of us in our

lifetimes in another lifetime somebody

might

might crack something i mean bts have

had a really good go at it they've done

really really well

um but we were like the new wave of the

beatles

and even still people just didn't say we

beat the beatles you know what i mean

you're never gonna

yeah it's different different era

exactly and that's that's what happened

with our fame as well we were just that

of this era

same with justin bieber right who the

hell has beaten that run come on they

won't they'll

someone will be different exactly

exactly so it's just like i think in the

end it's you're only like

fighting against yourself i sound like

rocky barbara now

i'm really intrigued by all of that

because you you also have these five so

you have five band members

they all go off and do their own solo

careers

and i always are you do you compete

against each other do you try and stay

out of each other's lanes are you

thinking about oh my god i don't want to

be

seen as doing you know what this

person's doing i think we did compete

with each other at a point

but i think it's all fairly like it's

laid out as it is now and we've all had

our success in completely different

areas

and also musically we didn't really go

down the same route

i think harry harry's done amazing you

know i mean first album he had the one

song off which is really really well and

then his second album

he found himself and that's that is your

awakening his eyes that's when it really

clicks i don't feel like i've had that

moment within me

yet i've written some songs recently i'm

really proud of and happy with but i

don't feel like i've had that moment yet

stripped that down

came out and it was we did a billion

streams and i could have

never asked the town i could have never

asked for that in a million years but

when i was making strip that down i was

a box of frogs

i was nuts it was wild i didn't know

what the hell was going on and also i

didn't know what the

what the you know the hot potato i just

landed on me are we just a billion

streams it's like

it literally is like hot potato one

minute's here the next minute it's gone

so you know i'm excited to see what the

next

the next six months of this brings you

know

um i'm excited to see to see we have

some

a really cool song in the pipeline um

which

is really exciting wow really exciting

then the song one of the first ones i've

actually

written myself um

with some other people i didn't write by

myself um but it's yeah the first one

i've really liked

and i think i got so used to carting

around other people's songs and not

embedding myself creatively in what i do

because i was

scared to find out who i was

so it's almost like that's the thing

when you're selling yourself you have to

know what the hell you're selling and

i'm you know i'm sure

most people wake up every day going i

don't know what the [ __ ] is going on and

you have to fail to find that out right

yeah

because you're gonna have to try some

[ __ ] experiment oh my god and it's like

so say like you're like geeky kind of

growing phase between

say 16 to 21 if you're lucky it might

last a bit longer if you're [ __ ]

you i did that in front of everyone and

there's some terrible outfits

there's some terrible haircuts you know

and that's some great

that stuff is there forever i've gotten

away with a few heck yeah

i feel like you've had some great ones

the short haircut i think not a lot of

people can pull that out i gotta have

like a melon head thing at the back so i

can't

i can't do that people think i'm an

alien but um no you've had some good

haircuts i've gotta be honest

when i read something about um strip

that down

you said that you were almost scared of

the success just as much as scared of

the failure oh

man i mean no one trains you for the

moment it goes right right

so you leave one direction you've got

your big sort of debut single coming up

and you're scared of the success i was

really

worried because i know what that can

bring to you

what can i bring well i've never i

i finished a day one of the one days

that stuck out for me the last

few years where i did a whole day's

promo in new york

and on the night time i was on i think

it's an andy cohen show or something

and they had a drinking game and someone

asked me a question about one of my

ex-girlfriends and i did not want to

divulge

what the hell went down and it was a

drinking game so i i was like they were

like we can fill it with water but me

being me was like no if i'm playing i'm

playing for real

so i'm like necking tequila oh gosh boom

and

i'm wasted i get home at half past one

bear in mind i started at like

i want to say eight o'clock in the

morning i was then asleep and i woke up

at half past three

for vocal training to be in central park

at seven for grooming at five and in

central park for seven o'clock

bear in mind i've been to bed at half

past one so i know what it can bring in

that

that crap will send you insane i don't

remember some days i was here

like that will send you round the bend

but it's the you if you want it

if you want it it's out there for you

you can go ahead and take it but it's

like you have to be

a workhorse to want to to do this and i

think a lot of artists would say that

coming out of it but i don't think it's

you know it's unfortunate the demand in

our industry and also the demand of how

quickly people receive information now

you know our 30-second time like

goldfish time span that we've got now

i mean i definitely have that i'm the

worst

and it went really really [ __ ] well

it went really well and then it was like

you know the problem we had was it was

like having a baby the thing

was nine months to get the number one in

america so it took nine months to work

the record just to get the number one

so if you can imagine singing the same

song every day

for nine months and having like one or

two songs to back it up with

it was like pretty like

i'm sure somewhere that must be like put

down as a method of torture yeah

i can imagine you must but this is the

job man and it's like it's

listen the first few shows of anything

are amazing and then after a while it's

like

you'll find bits that will like great on

you and whatever else but you know

i've been so lucky to have the career

that i've had and and

you know let's hope for more of that

that's that's what i think at this point

but it's learning how to deal and

channel that

and what's your relationship like with

the rest of the boys i'm sure you get

asked this all the time

great with most of them um i think

everyone's

settling into themselves at this point i

know i am for sure um

uh i had a lovely phone call from harry

the other day was checking in on me and

and it's almost like some people got

sixth sense for you right that you're

going through something so they'll check

in and he's

very much like that he's a lovely lovely

boy i i love him to pieces and then um

louis i speak to

a lot um and we've always had a really

really close

connection and the funny thing for us

and i've said this a lot but

we we hated each other at the start but

it's almost the people that you grow

closest to you know i mean i'll say it

because he bought it

quite recently but you know the whole

thing gonna talk about the reunion like

for me

i'd rather be talked about it sooner

rather than later because i don't want

to

it's tough touring touring that that

sort of record and then and i enjoyed

touring for what i enjoyed it for but

there's parts of it that really really

[ __ ] me up man in a sense i'll be

honest with you

um but none of us talk about it it's

like his taboo subject like oh we can't

get back together what do you mean oh my

god like us in the same room

what the [ __ ] is that about what [ __ ]

you up about touring uh

my dad said it from day one lonely hotel

rooms man getting locked in that room is

not fun when you've been

exposed i mean i've come off gigs before

i did a gig in

in dubai i was really worried no one was

gonna show up it was one of my first

solo gigs by myself

and i suppose i'm uber self-critical i'm

always like i don't know what the hell

is going on

so i get to this park and the capacity

for the park is like

you've never seen i'm looking at like a

park i'm like the hell

and i'm thinking we're getting paid a

lot of money to be here this is gonna be

really embarrassing if nobody shows up

and i don't know anybody in dubai i

can't even call 10 friends to be here

so i'm like at dinner i'm not eating my

food and whatever else then i get back

to the gig and

there's people chanting and kind of liam

and i'm like okay there's people here oh

my god i can chill

i get out there and i'm like awash with

these sea of people

and i noticed the sound systems hella

quiet behind me this make any sense i'd

get through the gig and you autopilot

the hell out of it

when i got off stage they're like oh you

broke a record you're on a list with

michael jackson

there's 110 000 people i'm like

and i was like i i sh you know i got

back to my hotel room and i was sat in

my room on a chair like this

and i was about to go to the maldives

with uh with cheryl and bear and i'm

like

i don't think i can go to the maldives

right now i can't move off this chair

how did you feel on that chair shocked

why like for to go from like i don't

know who's going to be here

to then i looked on the thing and it's

like oasis robbie williams

all these amazing you know ac dc all

these outdoor gigs amazing outdoor gigs

and then just me and michael jackson and

he's in there like three or four times

he's

you know he is the list but i was on the

same list i'm like what the

it can't be easy like go with a white

hotel room

it's almost like you know like in that

in a movie where they throw a grenade

and he goes

and then everyone's like and you still

feel like you're like oh my god like

yeah because i've done 9 000 50 15 000

in sao paulo i mean i did a talk with

obama that's me name-dropping oh wow

but um but it it they're not chanting

they're all very quiet i mean they clap

at the end but but how did it make you

feel you just feel like a diff

i can completely relate because i i was

thinking last year i lived in new york

city but i was i was speaking around the

world 50 weeks of the year so i was home

four weeks

and yeah i go back to the hotel room

sometime you know i haven't eaten

because of the adrenaline

um and yeah it's very lonely and you're

like were youtube and what do i do

now yeah but 110 000 people screaming

your name

and you're performing i had the prince

or the king or the something to buy

dancing to strip that down oh wow i need

to get that one

country conveniently you can't strip it

down which i thought he was up dancing

yeah we were talking about the touring

here the touring park really messed up

so the hotel rooms

yeah a return of one yeah you know i i

saw like a thing of people being like

angry at x factor these last few weeks

and i wanted to say something about it

i don't really know what to say on my

terms because i feel like there's

obviously going to be some people in

there who are bitter

and you sign up for this show you don't

really know what the hell you're getting

yourself into but i would agree and i

we've actually gone out of our way as a

team to make this possible for me

and i think a record label just bought

into the idea

of what we've made and i was the guinea

pig

right so pick the craziest person in the

room to start with that's a good place

to start

and uh we made this this thing to like

care for people in the industry because

we don't have unions we don't have

people to look after us

and i was a kid you know i was a child

when this happened to me and i'm very

fortunate to still be here today to be

able to tell this story but for most

people

they feel abused or or something in some

sense

so i just think that there needs to

there needs to be a self-care

a care system within these shows because

if they're gonna

move people through these shows and use

them to make television

they can't just like let them off

afterwards and i could never watch

x-factor because i was always

heartbroken

because i'd been the guy who made it

really far and then got let go and it

ruined me when i was 14 i

was crap at school depressed like

it ruined me at one point but i've also

then been the guy who

i think my dad actually came out and

said it in in the thing we were filming

once he was like

you've been told no more than any

winning x factor contestant

or like any successful exercise thanks

dad it's great to know

what an unusual experience wild

if you were to tour again would you do

it differently would you have

i don't actually even know how i would

tour again i i really want to and and

like

i want to put i i always said throughout

this solo career i'd let my song book

speak to me

and i don't think my songbook has

necessarily spoke to me enough to get me

off my ass to go somewhere yet

i only became a solo artist because i

had to strip that down

i wasn't gonna do it i was gonna leave

it alone music yeah

i was gonna leave it hell alone i was

like survive once

thank you very much but now i'm back in

why

because the song i knew it was right it

felt right with the song whereas i

haven't had that and this this year