Ambassador, let me ask you first of all a broad question, which is how this widening

war in The Middle East has sort of colored or changed, strategy and the trajectory of

that war in in Ukraine. What have you been watching for, and and what's worrying you

at this point in time as so much attention is diverted to to the Middle East?

Well, David, you're exactly right. There has a big change. One of the big changes is

the pressure the the financial pressure on Russia has been reduced. The oil price has gone

up, so every barrel that the Russians sell on the world market gets them more money.

And and that's a that was a brother. Big progress. There had been big progress in

squeezing the Russian economy and the Russian treasury by reducing the amount of oil sold, and

that has been changed. We've we've relaxed sanctions on Russia, allowed them to sell more, and

every barrel, as I say, gets gets a higher price. So that's that's a big problem.

On the other hand, David, the people in The Middle East and the nations in the

Middle East are very interested in the Ukrainian experience in shooting down U Iranian drones. And

so we got president Zelensky there, talking to the leaders, making it very clear which side

Ukraine's on, and it's also very clear which side Russia is on.

There's also a a report in Axios this morning that there were some tense moments between,

the EU foreign policy chief, Kai Callis, and Marco Rubio at that meeting, in which Callis

essentially said, you said at a forum a year ago you were gonna get tough on

Russia if they hampered US efforts to stop the war. That hasn't happened. And Rubio reportedly

shot back. Basically, if you think you can do it better, we're gonna step aside. Now

I did reach out to some sources who were at that meeting. They were unable to

confirm this exchange, but it does seem like there are tensions there about The US not

pressuring Russia in the way that we have seen America pressure other strongmen in other countries,

including Venezuela and Iran. Do you think there's anything Europe can do at this point to

change that policy, from The US?

Well, yes, Christina. The Europeans, are stepping up. They recognize that the American attention is diverted,

to Iran, and they recognize Europeans recognize the real threat that Russia poses to them. And

all of the effort that had gone into, squeezing Russia, putting sanctions on Russia, all of

that is is at least reduced at this point. And so Europeans know they have to

step up. They can do some things. They can continue what they've started, which is to

put pressure on this shadow fleet. These old oil tankers that are that are moving the

sanctioned oil around the world, and the Europeans have started to board these these tankers. And

that reduces the ability of the Russians to sell oil. And the Europeans are also stepping

up in their support for Ukraine, and they can continue to do that.

You've you've brought up these sanctions that have been relaxed by the administration, and I do

wanna get your perspective on that. We've heard explanation after explanation from the treasury secretary, from

Scott Bessent as to why this is happening. I'm curious how that's ringing to you, if

any of that makes sense, if there's a justification here that makes sense to you, if

you can understand in any way why this is happening, at this point in the war.

David, it looks like the administration is is trying to find ways to put more oil

on the market so to put downward pressure on prices. They're very concerned about the very

high price of oil. As I say, the high price of oil is helping the Russians,

but it is also having a negative effect on the world economy. So the administration is

looking for any way they can put more barrels of oil on the market. One way

to do that is to allow people to buy Russian oil and to buy Venezuelan oil

and even to buy Iranian oil. So they're doing this in order to try to put

downward pressure. It's obviously not helping, and it is having a a bad effect, a negative

effect on the on the pressure that we need to put on Russia to stop this

war in Ukraine.

Before we let you go, I wanna ask you about the status of NATO because we

heard president Trump growingly frustrated with European allies. He says not stepping up enough to secure

the Gulf. NATO allies are frustrated about Trump not stepping up, to help with the war

in Ukraine. What is the status of that alliance, and are you concerned that it could

fall apart?

Well, Christina, NATO's gone through some difficult times before and has made it through. This time,

however, it does appear that there's a serious movement toward a European pillar, a European pillar

in NATO. So NATO would be comprised of a European pillar that Europeans have capabilities and

and and nuke have have their own nuclear weapons with the British and the French, have

their own defense industrial base. It'd be a European pillar within NATO. Then the other pillar,

of course, is The US pillar. And the and the best case, that's a stronger NATO.

But you're right to point out there are tensions between the Europeans and the Americans at

this point, and the question is how to move forward. One way to do that is

the Europeans to develop their own capabilities, I would say within the context of NATO, and

make it a stronger alliance.