Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

>> The Joe Rogan Experience.

>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY

NIGHT. All day.

>> What's happening,

>> my friend? Good to be back, bro.

>> Dustin Pouet, the light heavyweight.

>> It's thick boy summer.

>> You're looking healthy, son.

>> Yeah, like 190, man.

>> You look good, man.

>> I feel good, dude. It feels good to eat

and not count carbohydrates and

calories.

>> Yeah, we were talking about that. we

like still like a little part of you is

like looks at meals and goes uh

>> well I mean for the last 20 years I've

been macro and you know I knew I had a

fight coming up even if I didn't have a

fight I had to be in striking range from

155 right

>> so I was always looking at the back of

every label being real cautious what I

eat it's like ingrained in my daughter

now when we go to Whole Foods she'll

grab something off the counter and say

dad it only has three ingredients like

she knows what's up

>> well it's good to think that way anyway

>> for sure

>> especially with the ingredients

>> yeah she that's the first thing she goes

too. Like if she wants some chips, it

only has five ingredients. That's like a

thing

>> for her when we're shopping.

>> Yeah. Well, that's smart, man. That's

cool. You're raising them, right?

>> I'm trying to, bro. I'm trying to put

the stuff I learned in fighting, you

know, all the years

>> to good use.

>> It's uh it is kind of crazy. I think

it's the worst thing about fighting is

the weight cutting.

>> Can you imagine if everybody just First

of all, I tell me if you agree, but I

think the UFC needs way more weight cut.

>> I do too. Way more. I do too

because the gaps are so big. I mean,

just if you look at boxing compared to

mixed martial arts, the the the jumps in

weight are so big from each weight

class, but also all the shows they're

putting on, they'd have more titles,

more belts, more big fights. But also,

man, with that, there's going to be a

lot of people trying to cut a little bit

extra, trying to be double champ in

every weight class. I think it does

cause more confusion.

>> Yeah, but that's better than the extreme

weight cuts. The extreme weight cuts are

ter. You saw that dude a few um like I

guess it was about three events ago who

face planted and got removed off the

card. Yeah,

>> that is crazy. You're getting someone to

the brink of death 24 hours before they

have an MMA fight, which is the most

>> if not the most dangerous sport, one of

the most dangerous sports in the world.

And you're doing something to your body

to extremely weaken it 24 hours before

you fight. It's bananas.

>> Dude, I did it so many times. You preach

it to the choir. I know, but

>> there's been so many times I felt like

that, like stand up too quick after a

weight cut and I'm like, you know, I

might go down.

>> Oh, dude. I I mean, I can only imagine

when you see someone like Pereira that's

cutting like 25 lbs and more when he was

185.

>> I mean, that guy was fighting inside the

octagon at 225

and weighing in at 185 24 hours before,

right?

>> That's crazy.

>> And even when he's big, he's lean, you

know? It's not like he's fluffy. Well,

they say that when you're muscular, it's

easier to cut weight. It's water.

>> Yeah. Which is counterintuitive. You see

a fat guy like, "Oh, that guy can cut

weight." But you really can't cuz you

can't depen your fat,

>> right? Not in a training camp's time, 8

weeks, 10 weeks, you can't lose like 30

pounds of fat. But

>> I don't think I said like it was a real

word.

>> You can dehydrate yourself.

>> I don't think it is a word. Depish.

>> Well, if you can replenish,

>> right? But no one says depenish. Depish.

>> No, you say deplete. But I just threw it

out there like it was real.

>> I don't think is a word.

>> Is that a word?

>> Yeah,

>> it is.

>> I don't think I've ever used it that

way.

>> Oh, okay.

>> Nice, man.

>> Nice. I got lucky. That was just luck.

Um, but I talked to Hunter about it,

Hunter Campbell, and we're we're trying

to figure out a way um without It has to

be more weight classes. I mean,

California instituted a bunch of

different weight classes. I think um I

think they were doing it every 10

pounds.

>> I think California also did like a

percentage of your your body weight like

I don't know what was it 15 20% you

couldn't dehydrate more than that.

>> That guy Andy Foster is on the ball

>> and I think that's good you know.

>> Yeah.

>> 20% or or whatever some kind of rule

where guys aren't cutting 50 lb 40%.

>> Still crazy. Yeah. It's still crazy.

>> I mean if you're a lot of weight.

>> Yeah you're right. 200 lb 40 lb. I mean

>> it's a lot of weight. Well, that's

another thing that freaks boxers out

when I tell them that there's a weight

limit at heavyweight

>> 265.

>> That doesn't make any sense. I go, I

agree.

>> Why is there a weight limit for

heavyweight? That's crazy,

>> dude. That that gap too, like 205,

anything over that, you can be 210 to

265. That's crazy.

>> Crazy. a 50 pound gap that you you know

but

>> well heavyweight in boxing like look

Mike Tyson when he was in his prime was

only like 220 215 220 you know that's

where he when he was dominating that's

where he kind of fell in that weight

limit

>> I wouldn't I think it would be a good

idea anything past like 230 235 super

heavyweight yeah you know

>> well the difference in boxing though is

the grappling the grappling in MMA the

gap if a guy gets on top of you is

immense if you got a like in Ghana when

he was in his prime was weighing over

like 300 lb and then cutting down to

265. He was a 300 lb natural.

>> He's a guy who's

>> like a knockdown power for sure, but

grappling like if you get a big guy

who's 265 and knows how to grapple very

well, wrestled his whole life, they get

in side control or half guard, you're

not getting up. That's the end of the

round.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Also, if they did do a super heavy, the

fights might be either awesome or

completely suck. Well, I think it should

be heavyweight should be unlimited and

then you'll find out. Yeah, because like

Kane Velasquez, no one's holding that

dude down in his prime. Even when he was

240, when he was 240 and he fought

Lesnar, Lesnar was gigantic, but it

didn't matter because the cardio that

Kane had and the speed and his technique

sort of it it

>> he was ahead of his time, man. He was

ahead of time. He was like a hybrid. Can

do everything,

>> great cardio, good athlete before

>> MMA got to where it's at now.

>> Yeah. The one fight that I always say

that we missed is Kane and Fedor in

their primes because they were both in

their prime at the same time and they

never made that happen.

>> When UFC absorbed the the Pride roster

and stuff, I was crazy. It's crazy that

Fedor never fought in the UFC at all,

man.

>> Well, it was they tried. The UFC tried,

but Fedor's management were a bunch of

very dangerous dudes.

>> Yeah, you don't mess around with those

guys.

>> [ __ ] Yeah, man. There was like tense

negotiations and they wanted a

percentage of the promotion. They wanted

a lot more than just a big purse.

>> Yeah, UFC is not playing that game.

>> No, they were like, "Look, we'll give

you, you know, a very healthy purse.

We'll bring Fedor over here." But the

problem was when they purchased Pride,

they thought they were getting

everyone's contracts, but the contracts

were all [ __ ]

>> Well, some guys came over on crazy crazy

money contracts, you know. I think Dan

Henderson might have been one.

>> I was a young fighter one time and I was

making this might have been

2013 or something, 2014, I don't know.

And um they came to give me my check.

This is back in the day before they

wired. They used to give us checks on

fight night. And uh they were going

through the checks and I saw Dan's and I

saw the number and I couldn't believe

it. This is before like people posting

online fighter pay and all that and I

saw the numbers he was making. I was

like no way guy's rich.

>> Does it make you angry?

>> No. No. Because the future myself

looking back or looking forward when

guys are going to be fighting for belts

and stuff, the money they're going to

make in five years, I'm gonna be I'mma

be that guy like damn, you know, I got

out too early or you know how it is. The

next generation always gets more, right?

>> Mike Brown tells me that all the time.

Do you I was fighting for the belt in WC

defending it making this. You guys on

the prelims are making more than I was

making, you know.

>> Yeah, there's a weird

that sort of discussion about fighter

pay. You know, I've always been of the

opinion that fighters should be making

more money, period. Because like the

same way I feel about like the way I run

my comedy club, the comedians make 80%

of the money. Cuz I feel like that's

who's you're paying to see. You're

paying to see them. We make plenty of

money like with drinks and 20% of the

ticket sale. It's like it's enough.

>> Like it should be what if we had a

comedy club and there's no comedians, no

one's coming, right? No one's gonna pay

just to sit there and buy drinks. Like

the whole idea is they're paying to see

someone's work. If you fight, that's

what people are paying to see. They're

paying to see fighters. Without the

fighters, there's no show. Without the

comedians, there's no show. I

understand. But I think the big thing

with the discussion of fighter pay is is

the percentages. When you look at other

major major organizations like NFL, NBA,

the percentages are so so different.

>> Yeah. It's not good.

>> But dude, at the end of the day, I'm all

for fighter pay, too. I've been fighting

my whole life. But you signed the

contract. You agree this is how business

is done. Push for try to get more of

what you're worth. You know, you can't

sign a contract and complain,

>> right? That's true, too. But also, it's

like the reality of MMA is if you're not

in the UFC, people are not paying

attention. That's unfortunate, but it's

reality.

>> Yeah. You know, and I think there's some

really good fighters that fight in the

PFL and really good fighters that fight

in one,

>> but they don't, no one knows who they

are other than the hardcore dudes,

>> right?

>> That's

>> Yeah, I got a buddy Johnny Elyn who was

the Bellator champion.

>> I've been training with him since he

started MMA when he got out of college

wrestling and stuff like right now. He

can go to the UFC and give the top five

guys a run for their money. No doubt in

my mind. He's only getting better.

>> Yeah.

>> Just because you fight in the UFC,

that's a great organization to fight

for. the biggest, the most known

worldwide, but dude, there's great

fighters everywhere. You know, like on

on the mats at American Top Team,

there's a dozen guys you never heard of

that can make a run in the UFC right

now.

>> That's what I heard is a nightmare about

training at American Top Team

>> cuz it's a revolving door, man. There's

like a hundred professional fighters on

the mats at all times.

>> Yeah.

>> Different camps. They have dorms. So,

guys from Russia, guys from all over the

world are just in. You never know who's

going to be there. And it's it's tough

rounds. You know, every practice is

tough. Well, not only that, but I've

heard there's like guys coming in from

Russia and they'll throw oblique kicks

at your knees and you're like, "Hey,

man. Like, what are we doing here? We're

getting ready for fights. We're not in a

fight."

>> Right. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Like some of these guys are trying to

make their name off of a name guy. And

so, you have to be very selective in who

you spar with.

>> For sure. And that's any not just

American Top Team, especially guys who

are established. Like, if I go to any

gym here in Austin and it's

>> open mat or something, I have a target

on my back.

>> Of course,

>> you know, that's everywhere.

>> Of course. But those guys, man, like at

a big gym like America Top Team with the

knowledge and the good coaches, those

guys get weeded out.

>> You know, you you won't stay there long

if you're doing that stuff.

>> The problem is if you're one of the guys

that has to weed him out, like you find

out early on this dude's, you know,

throwing wheel kicks

>> full blast

>> and it happens all the time.

>> Oh yeah. Well, just, you know, makes

sense. I mean, you're from Dagistan or

Cheschna or whatever, you come to

America, it's like this is your big

chance.

>> And I do like to train hard to prepare

for a fight. You got to fight, but you

know, you got to take care of each

other. We're professionals. We're

feeding our family with this.

>> Yeah.

>> And injury can ruin everything.

>> Well, there's so many fighters that get

concussions in training and then, you

know, they get chinny when they get into

the fight. It happens all the time.

>> Yeah.

>> Especially the early days. There was a

lot of guys who got hit.

>> Me. Yeah. Like the early days, we didn't

really have classes that were organized,

man. It was just sparring and choking

each other out and with 4 oz glove

sparring. Like we didn't know. We didn't

know.

>> Ain't that crazy?

>> Like 2006, dude. We used to beat each

other up every day. That was MMA

training.

>> And then it wasn't these super gyms

where everything was under one roof. I

would drive to a boxing gym, drive

another 45 minutes to a jiu-jitsu gym,

you know, it was put everything together

on fight night, but you would train

everywhere else because there wasn't

mixed martial arts gyms back then

really. I would drive to a kickboxing

gym, boxing gym, wrestling, jiu-jitsu.

It was all separate. Well, also you were

in a place that didn't have like a high

volume of MMA fighters in your state,

>> right?

Back then like Rich Clemeni, Melvin

Galard were the big guys from Louisiana,

you know,

>> right?

>> Then Tim Crater came got

>> Crazy Tim.

>> Crazy Tim got on the Ultimate Fighter

and then I went to his gym once he got

out of the TV show and I me and him

trained for years and years. He still

has a gym in Lafayette, Louisiana.

>> I love Tim. I' I've known Tim since I've

I first worked out with him in like 98

at Machado.

>> Well, he was in maybe the Navy. So, he

was in California station there and I

think that's when he started jiu-jitsu.

He was Louisiana's first black belt.

>> Oh, wow.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I knew him from that and then he

was fighting and he was fighting in the

UFC.

>> And he was always around the MMA scene.

Him and Eve Edwards were were good

friends. They opened the gym maybe in

Houston or something. He was cornering

Eve and Pride and then I met Eve through

Tim. And it's just it's a big family,

man.

>> Eve is a guy that I always say there was

a time where he was the best 155 pounder

on earth.

>> When he beat Josh Thompson, yes, he's

the uncrowned champion.

>> He should have been the uncrowned

champion.

>> There wasn't a belt.

>> I know. Isn't that nuts? Isn't that

nuts? That's so hard for people to

understand like how crazy it is.

>> Like being through the lineage of Thug

Jitsu, man. It sucks to say like that he

can't say he was a champion, but but I

know he was.

>> He was.

>> He was. He was the best.

>> He was the best. At one point in time,

he was the best. I he he lived out here

before he moved to LA. So before I moved

to South Florida to train at American

Top Team, I used to drive six hours here

and stay with Eve. He always had

wrestlers down here. This is like

beginning of my WEC days.

>> I would drive down here and train with

Eve, man. He's

>> he was another guy who was ahead back in

the day

>> cuz he comes from NHB, like hook and

shoot,

>> the crazy days, you know?

>> Yes.

>> And he was doing it all. Good jiu-jitsu,

good kickboxing. He fell in love with

wrestling. I was such a big fan of Eve,

man.

>> He He invented some moves, too. You

remember that one thing that he would do

where guys were on a single and he hit a

dude with a flying knee, a jumping knee?

>> That was uh Dude, I'm I'm an MMA

historian, bro. That was Elite XC, I

believe. Maybe.

>> Was it?

>> Um, and you know that was Edson Berto,

>> was it?

>> I think Andre Berto's brother, the

boxer.

>> Oh, wow.

>> Yeah.

>> Wow. But that

>> he had a single leg. He was hopping and

then

>> jumped up and kneed out cold.

>> Yeah, it was crazy. It is a lead. Look

at you, bro. I mean,

>> pray that again. Look at this. This move

is brilliant. That's brilliant.

>> That's Edson Berto.

>> And I believe Andre and Edson's dad was

a mixed martial artist.

>> Oh, wow. That's such a slick move.

>> Yeah, he's so crafty, man.

>> Oh, yeah. Well, that head kick that he

landed on Josh Thompson in the middle of

that wild crazy scramble jumping

roundhouse kick to the head, dude. And

they still play it. Every opener of the

UFC, they still play it as they should.

I mean, it was incredible.

>> Absolutely. Yeah. I got to You got to

give credit to Eve. He's He was one of

the real pioneers

>> for sure.

>> And way before this was cool. Way

before.

>> Yeah. But to be stuck at like 155, like

that was his weight class. And then

there's no title.

>> Yeah. They were the two best guys in the

world at that time. Him and Josh

Thompson.

>> Yeah. Josh Thompson's another one.

Doesn't get the credit he deserves.

That's it. Boom. Like what a slick move,

man. But that was Eve. Very creative,

you know.

>> Yeah, man. Josh Thompson like peak Josh

Thompson for me.

>> What was it? Strike Force when him and

uh Gilbert Melendez maybe were going

back and forth. Didn't they have like

>> Oh my goodness. Yeah,

>> they might have had a trilogy. It might

have been two two or three fights, but

every fight was amazing.

>> Gilbert Melendez. Another guy doesn't

get the credit he deserves.

>> Dude, legend.

>> Legend, man.

>> Legend. All those guys, they they were

the groundbreakers. You know, a lot of

these young kids coming up, you bring up

Gilbert Melendez, they're like, who?

Like, bro, you need to know your

history. You need to know how this thing

got started.

>> Even more newer stuff, go watch him and

uh Diego Sanchez, slug it out.

>> Diego Sanchez is another guy that I say

is a tweener, right? Cuz

>> welterweight.

>> Yeah. I mean, he really wasn't really a

welterweight and he, you know, and

lightweight. I mean, he tried to get

down to 45 for a while, but that was

just brutal. He was killing himself

getting down to 45. I remember seeing

him making weight for 45. I'm like, "Oh,

this ain't good.

>> This ain't going to last long."

>> No.

>> Yeah.

>> But if like there was a 165 lb weight

class, Diego Sanchez might have been the

champion of the world.

>> Right. Honestly, man, like when I was

competing, if they had a 65, I might

have entertained it. 70 is just too big

of a gap cuz I trained with 70s in the

UFC and I know they're 200 something

pounds

>> and my heaviest I was like 182, 183

maybe.

>> They're just too big, man. Well, you got

guys like Rumble Johnson when Rumble was

alive.

>> Yeah.

>> Rumble got up to 230 lbs in between.

>> No, he was huge, man. Huge.

>> Huge. I can't believe he made 170.

>> He was He was living in South Florida,

so I see him every now and then. He was

huge.

>> This episode is brought to you by Uber

Eats. March is here, and Uber Eats is

delivering deals all month long. Each

game day, score big savings on all the

delicious food you need to turn your

couch into center court and fuel your

fandom. Whether you're ordering in or

hosting the whole crew, Uber Eats is

serving up deals on wings, burgers,

pizza from your favorite restaurant,

plus game day snacks from top stores.

Bracket busted, still holding strong.

Cinderella story or top seed, however

the madness unfolds, these deals keep it

going all month long. visit the game day

hub on Uber Eats for all the latest

deals and start saving today.

>> He was the ultimate like weight cutter.

Like he cut more weight than anybody.

>> When he was fighting at 170, it was

bananas. Like how are you doing this? I

remember running into him at a hotel. I

was like, "Bro, how big are you?" And he

was laughing. He's like, "I'm 230 right

now."

>> And muscle

>> jackus like a heavyweight. And he went

up to heavywe

>> which is crazy. He was a legit

heavyweight.

>> Yeah,

>> dude. Andre is still fighting.

>> I know. And winning

>> the bare knuckle champion.

>> Winning. He's the bare knuckle champion.

Like, how durable is that [ __ ]

>> For the years and the miles that that

guy has, I I have to say like taking

shots, receiving damage, he I don't know

if he takes it like he obviously he

doesn't take it like he used to, but his

mobility and his movement for all the

wars he's had in the years he's been

fighting. When I watch him in the gym,

dude, he's light on his feet, flexible.

>> Yeah.

>> He moves so well

>> and enthusiasm. Still has enthusiasm for

the game. Yeah. which is crazy.

>> He He loves it.

>> He clearly loves it. I mean, he was

what? UFC heavyweight champion in 2005.

>> Yeah.

>> Was it like 2005?

>> 2005 or 2006? I think he beat Tim Tim

Sylvia, maybe

>> when he was the champ. First of all,

that [ __ ] had a piston for a

right hand. I remember when he KO'ed

Paulo. Oh my god.

>> That's a Texas guy.

>> Paul Bentello. Another another dude. I

believe he's from uh Galveastston area

or Corpus Christi or something.

>> He's from Texas.

>> Well, if you think Arloski from 2005 and

he was a top 10 heavyweight as recently

as like 2023.

>> Well, when he came back to the UFC after

that long gap, he went on a streak. He

had a bunch of great fight. I think he

knocked out Travis Brown.

>> Beat Travis Brown, which is crazy.

>> Did he fight Bigfoot? did him and

Bigfoot 51 is when he won

>> 2005. February 5th, 2005. That is

bananas, man. That really is bananas,

>> man. Back in the day, uh Tim Sylvia used

to train at AT when I first got there.

He was the most uncoordinated,

unathletic guy. I couldn't believe he

was a UFC champion, man.

>> I know. He was like

>> goofy.

>> Pigeon toaded,

>> but down to fight.

>> Oh, down to fight.

>> Down to fight. Yeah, for sure. Pigeon

toad. His knees were

>> weird. Yeah.

>> Yeah. They went in like I don't I tried

to talk to a trainer about that. He goes

that's learned like you can correct

that. I was like are you the knee?

>> Yeah.

>> The knees bowed in like that was he said

that's a learn you could you could

correct that. I was like really how do

you what?

>> I never heard of that.

>> Uh yeah I didn't understand how you

>> seems like something they would do maybe

when you're born surgery like reposition

the bones or something. No.

>> Well I don't know if it is. I don't

know. I mean, I I'd have to I don't want

to speak out of turn. I I I'd have to

bring in that guy and have him explain

to me how you could correct that.

>> But he's like, "That's something that

could be corrected." That's like learned

behavior.

>> It's just from being so big.

>> But dude, watching him with his toes

pointed out doing the ladder drills and

stuff, you know, the the ladders on the

m in and out. Like it was so crazy.

>> Big guys have their toes pointed out

like that. Like Jelly Roll went from 500

lb and he's down to the he's in the low

200s now, which is crazy. I saw pictures

of him looks completely different.

>> Bro, he's lost like 300 lbs and he did

it the right way. No ompic just like

diet, exercise, runs all the time, but

he has a problem when he walks. His toes

are pointed out and he's trying to

correct it. He's trying to be aware of

it.

>> Yeah.

>> When he runs, he runs the right way.

Like feet feet pointed forward.

>> You see it too on the on the bigger guys

shoes. The corners of their shoes are

always flat. Like flat tires on the

outside. They just walk that way, man.

Well, you got to think you have so much

weight, you gotta you gota kind of

stretch out to kind of balance yourself.

>> Yeah.

>> But I always point to Tim Sylvia when he

knocked out Rico Rico Rodriguez. That

>> Oh,

>> that Tim Sylvia was a beast, dude. That

was back when all the Mexican

supplements were allowed.

>> There was a lot of dudes who are very

juicy.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> And Tim had giant traps and huge [ __ ]

shoulders. And

>> I remember he struggled to get down to

265 for that fight.

>> Yeah. Back in the day with the juice was

just free flowing, man. I just worked um

>> the UFC desk with Bisping in Vegas when

Max and Charles fought

>> and we started talking about the same

thing we're talking about now. And he

was like, "Oh, I fought VTO. I fought

them all in the height of TRT." Right.

>> You know, he's fought a bunch of guys.

>> Legal juice which was bananas.

>> I mean, loud. Oh, yeah. That was the

juiciest fight of all time. Alistister

versus uh versus Brock was the juiciest

fight of all time.

>> Yeah. I recently watched the uh Mark

Hunt documentary and um he's trying to

like push back and do a lawsuit against

the UFC for all the juicing and stuff,

but I mean it's such a

>> Yeah, that's a tough that's a tough road

because how much can the UFC do?

>> And it's on the athletic commission as

well, right? Wouldn't the lawsuit be

against the state, not the UFC? I think

his position is that the UFC knew that.

Um,

>> but how would they know

>> that Brock was juicing? I don't know.

>> This is before random drug test, I

believe.

>> Yes, it was before.

>> So, that would I feel like that would

fall on the state athletic commission.

>> Maybe it wasn't before cuz he did get

popped,

>> you know, but

>> it wasn't random. They weren't show up

in camp.

>> No, no, that back in the day you would

get tested on fight night, right? You

know, they wouldn't knock at your door.

Well, it was super clear that Brock was

doing something. It was super clear.

Like he was like in his late 30s.

>> He's built like a [ __ ] like the side

of a barn.

>> I mean, there's a bunch of guys back

then.

>> Yeah. Bunch of guys.

>> Yeah.

>> But it wasn't frown. It was okay.

Everybody was doing it.

>> Well, it wasn't. It wasn't, right? Cuz

it was illegal, but it it was like when

you have fight day drug tests, that's an

intelligence test. That's all that is.

Right? That's whether or not you have

good people in your corner and whether

or not you have a a chemist.

>> It's going to take this amount of weeks

to get out or this many days to get out

of your system.

>> Well, there are certain camps that would

employ scientists and these scientists,

>> the crooks are always going to be ahead.

You know,

>> they're always going to be coming up

with something new, trying to stay ahead

of the curve and get away with stuff.

And I still think they're probably doing

it, man.

>> Yeah. There's probably something that we

don't know right now and it's going to

come out in the future. That's why they

hold on to the drug tests for a

prolonged period of time.

>> Yeah. They ask you your consent. You

have to do an extra signature if you let

them test it or use it for

>> What happens if you say no?

>> I I don't know. I never said no. I

always give it to him.

>> Well, it's good for you because you're

clean.

>> Yeah. I competed my whole career clean,

man. Nothing. Nothing. I was even scared

of certain creatine. Like I got the

trusted by sport on everything because I

was so scared to be one of those guys

cuz every time I see it tainted

supplement. Yeah, sure buddy. But, you

know, sure, a tainted supplement, but it

could be, you know, I don't want to be

one of those guys.

>> Well, for sure there are tainted

supplements. That's a real thing. And,

you know, I know that for a fact because

as one of the owners of On It when we

were doing um when we're uh doing third

party testing of some of our

supplements, we would find stuff in

there that's not supposed to be in

there. And so, we'd have to contact the

distributor, the manufacturer, and the

people that like mixed our stuff. So the

way like on it would work is like Alpha

Brain has a bunch of different

ingredients that enhance your, you know,

your mental focus and clarity. And we

would give them the very specific

numbers of what's supposed to be in each

batch. And then we would third party

test. We find a bunch of [ __ ] in there

that's not supposed to be in there. And

it's because, you know, if you're

getting it done overseas, they have

these vats where they mix all the stuff

in and they don't even clean the vats,

man. They dump it out and then they dump

the new stuff in there without cleaning

it.

>> There's residue in there. And then also

the level of drug testing, how high

these things can sense anything,

>> right?

>> Even if there's a tiny bit, they'll find

it,

>> right? With Jon Jones, right? It was

picoggrams. We got introduced to the

term pogos. Like a grain of salt in the

swimming pool, they can find they're

saying. So the testing is legit. And I'm

glad, you know, we're fighting. We're

kneing each other in the in the face. If

we were running track or something, I

>> Exactly.

>> But we're fighting. You can get

seriously injured, man. So, I've always

been against doping,

>> but I'm retired now. Joe,

>> I'm retired now.

>> Now you can get to group.

>> Yeah, I love when guys get Well, Cowboy

got real jacked, too, afterwards. But

then he talked about coming back and

then he got off of everything.

>> That's the thing, though. Like always

back in the day, all the TRT guys, like

if you change your body's natural

production of testosterone with

exogenous testosterone,

>> you have to be on it for the rest of

your life. Well, you don't have to

because there's things called hCG and

HCG and clomophene can restart your

body's production of testosterone.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Definitely

>> because I know your testicles will stop

producing once you introduce foreign

testosterone, right?

>> Well, for a for a period of time,

especially when you're a young man, you

can restart it. But, you know, my

production, I've been on TRT since I was

like late 30s. Like, it's not coming

back.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> I'm shooting blanks. Pow. But uh

>> you're good.

>> But two of my daughters were born while

I was on TRT. So it does work. I just

had a limited amount. I had soldiers.

Just one [ __ ] special ops guy at the

front.

>> Only one was marching.

>> But he got through.

>> Black Ops.

>> Yeah. So if you think about like all of

the time where people were allowed to

dope, it is a giant percentage of the

history of MMA. Like Pride,

>> the further you go back, For sure.

>> For sure. for sure.

>> Pride. It was juiciest as juice. Like

that like Enson Inu when he was on the

podcast told me that in the contract it

said in all capital letters, "We do not

test for steroids."

>> We aren't looking. I've heard I've heard

other people say that as well. We aren't

looking.

>> Thumbs up, green light. Let's go.

>> Shoot up the juice. Come fight. We'll

pay you cash. Get out of here.

>> They wanted you to juice. They wanted

you to fight better, which is like

>> it becomes a spectacle, but man, people

can get seriously injured. You can

especially But then also the thing is

like does it make you more durable?

>> Does it prevent you?

>> Does I think it does man because

>> just one that right off the top of my

head when Bigfoot Silva was TRT or

whatever he was on he was so durable.

>> So durable.

>> Him and Mark Hunt had those crazy fights

but when he got off he started getting

knocked out

>> right

>> you know.

>> But there's also the switch. There's

something that happens when you've had a

certain amount of concussions where

that's

>> another another guy that comes to mind.

Remember Eric Silva? Yeah,

>> welterweight was huge, dude. Whenever

they started doing the USADA stuff, he

was getting knocked out and just wasn't

himself.

>> He didn't look the same. He melted.

>> I wonder what the like medical reason

for that is, but I I think it has to

something to do with confidence and like

self-belief with the testosterone. They

just I think that's a big part of it.

>> It's definitely a part of it, but also

there's a part of it your vitality.

You're just more durable. I mean, when

you're jacked up on testosterone, you're

just more [ __ ] durable. Yeah.

Everything about you is more ador

Alistar is a great example of that.

>> Like animal mode, man. You just

>> Yeah, man. Dude, I I think Alistister

Overim when he was Uber, I think that is

the best argument for TRT ever.

>> Looked like a superhero,

>> bro. When he was in K1 and he was

shelling up. How you getting through

that? How you getting through that

shell?

>> Remember how small he was though back in

K1? He was like a 205 or

>> 181. Pride. Pride.

>> Pride when he was fighting at light

heavy when Chuck knocked him out.

Liddell knocked him out when he was a

legit light heavyweight and he was

skinny.

>> Yeah.

>> And

>> young and skinny.

>> He just decided time to get big.

>> Yeah. Look at him back then when he

fought Shogun.

>> Still pretty jacked though.

>> Oh yeah, man. He was shredded.

>> He was shredded. But he was a shredded

light heavyweight, you know. I think

he's a vegan now.

>> I look at that.

>> Come on, son. Come on, son.

>> That's a ribe eyes. That ain't vegan

right there.

>> Go back to that other one. That's what

I'm talking about. I mean, that's what a

UFC heavyweight champion's supposed to

look like. Come on, son.

>> I mean,

>> put that put that on the White House

card.

>> Not just that, but highly skilled

>> for sure.

>> He wasn't just jacked. He was highly I

mean, there's a K1 Grand Prix champion.

I mean, that dude was the cream of the

crop at kickboxing.

He was the cream of the crop in MMA and

he even won the Abu Dhabi European

trials as a pure grappler.

>> Yeah. People don't know about that about

Alist A Alistar. His grappling is is

high level.

>> Very He had one of the best guillotines

in the game. Like Alistar in his prime

when when he went over and he fought uh

Brett Cooper over in U was it Bert

Cooper? Who do who? No. Who do you

[ __ ] fight in Strike Force?

>> Like Brett Rogers.

>> Brett Rogers. That's right. Sorry. I'm

thinking of the heavyweight boxer Bert

Cooper. Bert Cooper

>> who fought uh he had some crazy wars

with um

>> with uh Evander Evander Holyfield.

>> I think Evander's down in South Florida

too now.

>> I don't remember Cooper.

>> He was a really he was a he was a tank.

He was a tank. He was a super jack guy.

But Brett Rogers when he fought Alistar

Alistar like immediately hit him with a

low kick and you could tell he was like

what is this?

>> Yeah. like it was a different kind of

low kick because you're dealing with the

tree trunks of Alistar with perfect

technique and that guy was as good a

kickboxer as has ever entered into MMA.

And when he was saucy, he was a problem.

Yeah,

>> he was a real [ __ ] problem.

>> Speaking of kickboxers from that era

coming to MMA, dude, didn't Gokan Saki

come over?

>> Oh, yeah. I

>> I thought he was going to do, you know,

so much better, but he's he was older.

He was older and he was at a time where

it's like, you know, he had had so many

fights in K1,

>> you know, he had he had so many wars and

he fought Khalil when you know, Khalil's

fast as [ __ ]

>> And I mean, good kickboxing.

>> Real good kickboxing.

>> Tie style.

>> Khaled him in the first round and

knocked him out.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Which was a big fight for Khalil

because, you know, Gokan was the Turkish

Tyson was coming over here. you know,

was one of those guys like Merkel Crocop

was like an elite kickboxer who's

entering into MMA and everybody always

gets excited about that. Obviously,

Pereira is the best example of that.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> But he was a guy I knew. I told

everybody I was like, "That guy is going

to be a nightmare for everybody because

there's something about him, man. I

don't know what the hell is going on

with his bone structure, his DNA, and

his intelligence. Like, he figured [ __ ]

out that other people didn't. Like the

way he threw that low kick. Like the way

he throws that calf kick with zero tell,

no turning of the hips. Like he [ __ ] up

guys calves better than anybody on the

planet.

>> We had like a huge rush of the calf

kick. I saw it for like a year and a

half, two years. Everybody was doing it.

Now it's kind of fading away. I've

noticed that

>> it is, but not with him. It's not with

elite guys. Guys that are really good at

it.

>> It does so much damage, man. So quickly

>> crazy.

>> And it's so much It's less commitment.

So you're not giving you don't have to

turn your hips over as much. So

wrestlers aren't grabbing singles as

easy.

>> Well, I remember your fight with Jim

Miller.

>> It's just Oh, dude. tore me up.

>> Yeah, that was that was one of the first

examples of calf kicks being really

[ __ ] dangerous.

>> And I've never felt it before. And it

and I'm a southpaw, so to land good calf

kicks, you'd have to fight another

southpaw, right? And that doesn't happen

too often, especially with one who's

throwing those.

>> So, I didn't know what kind of black

magic he was doing, bro. I was like, I

got a I got a flat tire. What is going

on? What is this?

>> I know. You know,

>> isn't it crazy that it took that long

for people to figure that out?

Ben Henderson was a guy doing it early,

>> but it wasn't that effective for some

reason. He was doing it, but it wasn't

having the devastating damage.

>> I'm trying to think of who's the first

guy to really Edson Barbosa would do it

every now and then.

>> Mhm.

>> Trying to think of somebody who really

brought it over,

>> bro. It's made its way into kickboxing

now.

>> It's cuz they were saying like the Muay

Thai guys are not susceptible to calf

kicks and everybody was saying that. I

was like that doesn't make a lot of

sense to me.

>> They are light on their front foot. So

that front foot is

>> they are but there's times where they

have to plant like when they're throwing

a right kick.

>> There's a guy named Yuki Yoza Yuki Yoza

who fights for one. He's a Kilkushin guy

and he is [ __ ] everybody up with calf

kicks.

>> Yeah,

>> he he fights like high guard tight

inside and again no pivot of the hips.

He's essentially throwing his calf kick

almost like he's kicking a soccer ball

straight up the middle.

>> That's that's the way I like to do it as

well. M

>> just clip the top of the calf. It's no

commitment. You don't have to pivot your

hips or plant to turn. You can just snap

it out like a jab.

>> Yeah. Well, a great example of the

changing of technique was you in that

Connor fight.

>> Yeah. Calf over and over and over.

>> And it was also southpaw versus

southpaw.

>> Same thing. You just destroyed that

calf. And you could tell he didn't know

what to do because as good as he was and

as many fights as he had two division

world champion, he hadn't been calf

kick, right?

>> Which is a crazy transition when you see

like the history of the sport. That is

one of the clear different the like the

the differentiation. That's another word

that's fake. That's the clear line in

the sand where the techniques changed.

>> Yeah. And it's one of those things like

before it happened to me, I saw it and I

was like, "Ah, it might be

uncomfortable." And but until it

happens, then you have a different

respect for it. So Connor probably

learned a lot that fight, man. Like this

is for real. Calfcakes are for real.

>> Well, it's [ __ ] that it's just one

shot. That's what's crazy about it. Cuz

a thigh kick, like you can get a hard

thigh kick and your leg goes dead for a

couple seconds, but it comes back.

>> Yeah.

>> Calves don't really come back that

quick.

>> They explained it to me at the hospital

after the Jim Miller thing. Apparently,

your calf doesn't have the chambers for

the fluid to drain. So, that's why it

gets compartment.

>> Oh, compartment.

>> That's why it's so painful cuz it it

can't like go out through the swelling

can't go out through your whole leg. So,

it sits in one pocket and fills up and

it's just uncomfortable. Can stop

nerves. And

>> did you ever see what happened to Austin

Hubard?

>> Dude, that's what they wanted to do

after the Jim Miller fight. They wanted

to cut me at the uh like no way.

>> No way.

>> Filet you to release the pressure. Well,

another guy, Uriah Faber, when he fought

Jose Aldo, his leg blew up like a

balloon.

>> Yeah. Apparently, if it gets that bad,

compartment syndrome and the swelling is

bad enough for long enough, you can lose

function of your ankle and foot.

>> Yeah. Which is crazy. Right.

>> Right. Right.

>> Well, Uriah was one of the first guys to

implement um going into um what why

can't I think of it? The [ __ ]

chamber, oxygen chamber. Hyperaric.

Hyperbaric.

>> What's wrong with me today?

I'm making up fake words. Can't come up

with things that I know. But he was uh

using the hyperbaric like exclusively to

recover from that and documenting it.

And I was like, "Oh, that's

interesting."

>> A lot of good uh brain benefits for

hyperbaric. I I don't have one. I've

done it before, but it's never been like

a routine thing.

>> Well, it's you have to have access to

it.

>> And also the tent the tents the zip-up

tents at home

>> not as strong.

>> Yeah. You need a solid,

>> you know, you need like one of those

propane tank ones, those big thick

walled ones. the glass like it's you can

really get high pressure.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And then you know you got to

be careful in those things. You can't no

sparks.

>> Yeah. Dude, I saw a story that a kid was

in one and you saw that that was a

couple years ago.

>> Horrible. Horrible story.

>> Yeah. Um but hyperbaric is awesome for

recovery. It's also it lengthens.

There's a protocol that developed, one

of the universities in Israel developed

it where you do uh 60 sessions over 90

days and it lengthens your telomeres

that's commensurate with I think it's

like a 20 year difference in your

biological age.

>> Wow.

>> It's nuts. It's super effective. Like

when you get a lot of oxygen into your

system like that, it just helps

everything recover.

>> For sure. Like if you have an Aura ring

or a Whoop strap and you go into one of

those things, it shows you. It's like,

"Oh, you have an amazing recovery day."

>> Yeah, man. The metrics we can track now

with all the wearable devices, it's

pretty awesome, dude.

>> Well, it gets you to understand like I

think you can get a little addicted to

those things.

>> For sure. I I So, when I was competing,

I stopped using them cuz every day

wasn't ready. Need to rest. Red, red,

red every day. So, when I retired, I got

back to it. Now I'm using them. But like

when you're training for a fight, you

can't.

>> Isn't that interesting?

>> I'm not taking two days off. I need to

train and the fight's coming up. Like if

I'm in the red zone, I still need to

train.

>> I know. Isn't that interesting? Like

there's a wearable device would tell you

you're not supposed to train. But yet,

you know, in order to reach MMA, peak

physical condition. You have to push

when you're not ready. So your body's

forced to recover quicker.

>> I know this guy's training. That's why I

got rid of it during camp. I don't use

it or didn't use it. Well, it's weird

because like what if you listen to it?

Like some people say like Terence

Crawford was talking about like there's

times where he wanted to push where his

coaches told him not to and then he

realized they were right.

Yeah. Maturing through fighting man

pulling back got easier as I got older.

When I was a younger fighter, I didn't

want to take any time off. I needed to

be as many reps, as much time on the

mats as possible. But as I got to like

mid30s, 36, I was like, you know, this

is I got to take days off. Complete

days. Complete days. Not just an easy

day or a technique day. I just need to

be out of the gym.

>> Just relax.

>> Yeah. Reset my mind to where I want to

be there.

>> Just hard for fighters because you

operate on momentum of the conditioning

and the training and the discipline.

It's like you're in there. And then to

to have a day where you're not, you feel

like you're slipping backwards,

>> right? And you show up to fight week

with that momentum. Like I did

everything I could. I bust my ass every

day. like you just gives you so much

energy and so much confidence going into

fight week.

>> You've turned over every stone.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Well, the worst thing though is seeing a

fighter fight flat because you know they

overtrained.

>> And the one thing that I always point to

is when um Tim Kennedy fought Kelvin

Gasselum and he had gone through two

solid camps in a row. So he went through

one camp, peaked, got ready for the

fight, and then the fight got cancelled

and then went right back into camp for

to train for Gastelum and didn't give

himself the chance to recover. And you

know, he's too tough.

>> Too tough, too disciplined, and his body

broke down. You're redlining that engine

over and over and over. I mean, we just

saw with Morab, I think. You know, not

that taking anything away from Yan, but

>> you know, you stay that busy, those kind

of fights, those training camps, I mean,

it's hard to do. That's what makes

things like Jon Jones could be so

impressive to me, man.

>> To get on top and stay on top that long,

you know.

>> Yeah,

>> I know. It's nuts. There's so few guys

have been able to do that,

>> especially in MMA. Too many variables,

too many ways to slip on a banana pill,

get caught in something, you know?

>> I know. I kind of love that Kabib went

out on top

>> and never came back. Respect. That's

awesome.

>> And they offered him a lot of [ __ ]

money to come back. He's like, "Nope."

>> Yeah.

>> Nope.

>> Good for him, man.

>> Yeah. Good for him.

>> Yeah. That's the way to do it. And then

you go out all your faculties,

everything's fine, undefeated, go down a

legend,

>> right?

>> Yeah.

>> Like I think Floyd should have did it,

you know, like that. Now he's [ __ ]

[ __ ] fighting Mike Tyson, dude. Come on,

man.

>> I know. There was some rumors around

that Floyd was going to have a rematch

with Connor, which is crazy. But I think

Connor would probably do it, especially

if there weren't any drug testing

involved.

>> I wonder if he's going to come back at

for sure. Yeah.

But man, to heal from an injury like he

had, you probably need a bunch of stuff

to I don't know the ins and outs of

that, but you probably need some help to

heal.

>> He definitely needed some help to heal.

The problem is once you get used to that

help

>> and you enjoy it.

>> Yeah, I'm I'm getting used to the help.

>> I know. That's what I thought about

Cowboy when he got jacked and then he

was like he's going to and he he slimmed

back down again. He said he was going to

fight again, but I I think he might have

abandoned that. I got hooked up with

Bighgam and Ways to Well, they did all

my blood when I retired and got me. I

turned down no testosterone for me. So,

I'm not on any testosterone. I just

don't want to mess up my natural

production cuz mine wasn't high, but it

wasn't low. I'm just scared to mess with

it, you know?

>> Yeah, you don't need it. And it's

peptides can do a lot for you.

>> Yeah, I'm on a bunch of peptides.

>> Yeah, peptides are the way to go.

>> And I feel great. Honestly, I wish I

could have been on this [ __ ] when I was

fighting, man.

>> I know. You know, especially like the

growth hormone releasing stuff like

>> like tessamoralin.

>> Exactly. I could

>> pushed hard every day, man. As I got

older, it got harder, man.

>> I know. And all it does is help your

body recover. It's not like it gives you

some sort of a performance-enhancing

boost.

>> I know it definitely helps with like fat

>> mobilization and and and stuff like

that, but just being able to push hard

every day is huge in fighting, man.

Well, just BPC57, which offers no

performance-enhancing, but would help

you heal soft tissue injuries because

you're getting injured. You're just

getting small injuries every day

training. Every time you get leg kicked,

every time you get punched in the

stomach,

>> arm bars, shoulder,

>> everything, everything.

>> Your joints are always messed up.

>> Always. Always. And if you wanted

fighters to perform better, something

that would allow them to heal better is

only good. And it's not It's not going

to make you run faster. It's not going

to make you jump higher. It's not going

to make you an Uber. We're not talking

about that.

>> And I'm not even sure if that's banned.

I haven't checked. It is.

>> BBC57's banned. Yeah, it's unfortunate.

>> Yeah, creatine protein powders, that's

the same stuff. You just recover better.

>> Not banned. Creatine's not banned. Thank

god. But creatine in the 1990s were

thought of as the same way as steroids,

>> right? Yeah. Yeah. I remember

>> people thought like creatine's cheating.

Oh my god, you're taking creatine. They

they literally put it in the same

category as start. Then they realize,

oh, it's actually a part of food.

>> Great for your brain.

>> It's actually good for you.

>> Great for everything.

>> Yeah.

>> You know,

>> I just tal I just talked my wife into

starting creatine.

>> Women need it more than men. I was

reading,

>> right? You know, I read that. So, my

wife's just starting.

>> Yeah. I think the key is to like make

sure you're hydrated, too, and to make

sure you're not taking too much of it

and make sure you get your blood checked

and so you're not putting a lot of

pressure on your kidneys. But like

dehydration and kidneys that like that

is one of the big things that happens to

a lot of fighters that cut a lot of

weight. They start getting kidney

stones.

>> I mean Jose Aldo dealt with that. Uh DC

famously got pulled out of the Olympics

>> cuz he was having kidney failure.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Your kidneys, man, they don't like

you being drained out like that.

>> I've had a few weight cuts where I felt

pain in my back. And I I think that's

kidneys.

>> 100%, man. Kidney shots. Didn't happen

often, but I've definitely had it.

>> Tightness. It feels kind of like

cramping in a weird place you never had

before in your back.

>> Spooky. You're drying out your organs

>> and then fighting for your life.

>> Crazy.

>> 24 hours. It was nice though when I

started making it to the top of the

cards, co-main event, main event,

because then you have like 30 something

hours to rehydrate. If you're fighting

early prelims in Vegas,

>> 2 or 3 in the afternoon,

>> you know, it's

>> right

>> not too long. Especially back in the day

when weigh-ins were at 5 or 6 p.m. There

wasn't a morning in ceremonial.

The real weighins were at five and you

were going to fight at two the next day.

>> Yeah, those were nuts. That was crazy.

That was crazy when guys would like

shuffle to the scale for the real

weigh-in

>> and you'd see them all like like a

skeleton

>> and you're facing off with your opponent

trying to be tough like both dying.

>> Well, I always remember Jose Aldo versus

Connor. Connor looked like he was one of

the Walking Dead.

>> Yeah,

>> he looked like a zombie. He was so

skinny.

>> His face bones.

>> Yeah. See if you can find that. And he

was also crazy like

like flexing hyped up with no like no

body fat, no water,

>> just completely dehydrated. Like look at

that. Look at that.

>> The eyes sunken in.

>> That is nuts. That guy weighed 145 and

he probably weighed 170 or at least 165

when he got into the actual octagon that

day.

>> I wonder if he does come back. I wonder

what he's going to come back at. like

lightweight or welterweight.

>> Well, the real key is if

>> if

>> I mean, he's had a lot of opportunities

and I don't know.

>> I thought the I thought the uh Chandler

fight was a layup for him.

>> That's the fight.

>> A great matchup for him.

>> Great fight technically. It's a great

fight stylistically. It's a great fight

age-wise. Chandler's got to be what, 39

now?

>> He's up there 38 or 39. Yeah.

>> I mean, and then there was the hype of

the ultimate fighter.

>> True. But it's just a layup for Connor.

Chandler's hitable, covers distance, not

that technically, you know, huge

movements, right?

>> You jump in, you get carried out. Connor

is a sniper, man. I just think that's a

great match up for him.

>> It's also a great match up for Chandler

cuz he's getting tired

>> and and he gets that, you know, cuz he

sat out for two years waiting on waiting

on Connor.

>> It's also like remember him with Olivea

even in the [ __ ] third round. That

dude is carrying Olive up and throwing

him through the air and body slamming

him while he's on his back. Like the

dudes has he has incredible endurance

and incredible discipline. He's always

fit. Yeah.

>> And that's been Connor's Achilles heel

is that Connor he's so explosive and so

fast that if you're sprinting in that

first round, guaranteed you're not going

to have that same kind of energy in the

fifth round.

>> Yeah. But some guys are just designed

like that. You know, you saw Taran

Woodley's a guy who has huge explosion,

>> but they don't necessarily keep that for

for 25 minutes. But on the opposite side

of that, you got a guy like Nate Diaz,

>> who keep that same pace from round one

to five.

>> Round 30. Yeah,

>> that dude could

right

>> out of a cannon, you know, and then slow

down.

>> Just the way muscles and fibers are put,

you know, connected. I don't know what

does that to to a human.

>> Well, the only guys that figured out how

to fight with all that bulk and just is

like Yoel Romero. He fought very smart.

It was just like

>> still fighting.

>> Still fighting,

>> dude. Still fighting. 50 years old,

jacked. More jacked than ever.

>> Yeah. 48 years old. 49 years old with

abs. Looking like a [ __ ] super

athlete.

>> I think he's doing bare knuckle maybe.

>> Yeah, he did bare knuckle. He did dirty

boxing. There's a there's a fight where

he had in dirty boxing where he's he's

touching the dude up and then out of

nowhere he just leaps up into the air.

He does like a vertical. He is like this

five foot vertical, lands on his feet

and just starts putting it on. Dude,

he's like, "I'm tired of this. Let me

show you what I can really do.

>> I've had fun playing with the food.

>> I've had fun.

>> He's a crazy He's been on the mats a

bunch at American Top Team as well. And

uh just a freak athlete, man.

>> Freak. He's the freak of all freaks.

>> Just a freak athlete.

>> Yeah. I mean, he came out of that Cuban.

>> They build him different over there.

>> Yeah. They build him with science.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> But he also figured out how to pace

himself,

>> you know? He figured out how to like

explode out of nowhere, but not explode

the entire time. like he had this casual

almost he would lull you into a false

sense of security and then just pounce

on you,

>> right?

>> Like that knee he hit with Widman with.

Dude, that was

>> a perfect example. Perfect example

because you're getting used to this kind

of pace and then

>> you're getting into the rhythm and then

you just break it up.

>> But also he didn't fight like obviously

he's a wrestler. He didn't wrestle too

too hard and really gas himself out. He

fought smart to to do what he's good at.

He barely used his wrestling in MMA,

which is so crazy.

>> Yeah,

>> it's really crazy if you think about how

good of a wrestler he was, right?

Because he was one of the best wrestlers

to ever compete in MMA. I mean, that

dude was elite as a wrestler. And in

MMA, he's just starching people.

>> Yeah.

>> When Luke Rockhold

>> starch Luke like that was crazy.

>> Luke's another guy still fighting. I

think

>> I think he might be done now. you know,

when he got knocked out by Darren Hill

in the boxing. I think that might be it.

I think that might be it. And Darren

Hill has got a resurgence, man, as a

boxer. He looks [ __ ] fantastic.

>> I I saw the highlights of that, but I

haven't seen a whole lot,

>> bro. He looks real good. He looks

>> But he's always been a good striker.

>> Very good striker. And his Achilles heel

has been his knees. You know, he's had

some serious knee problems and it really

impeded him from being able to train

hard. He wasn't the best grappler in the

world. And so that was always his

problem. But as a striker, I mean, that

guy was like very, very good. And you're

seeing him now in boxing, like he's

making a real run. I think it's very

interesting because if you watch him

boxold and you realize like Rockhold's a

really good striker, but against Darren

Till, he looked like he had no business

in there.

>> Yeah, that's something I would like to

do, man. Box

>> still.

>> I always wanted to have a couple before

I've, you know, but I'm still under

contract. Even though I'm retired, I

still have a contract with the UFC. So,

do you think the UFC would let you out

or they have Zufa boxing now?

>> So, they don't I trust me, I already

pitched it to them.

>> Did you?

>> Me and Nate Diaz, Zufa Boxing, let's go.

>> Let's go.

>> 170, whatever. 168, super middleweight,

let's do it. They don't want any

crossover.

>> What?

>> They I think Zufa wants to be taken as a

serious

>> hate money.

>> They must hate money.

>> Do they hate money?

>> They hate money.

>> Why do they hate money?

>> I don't know. They They want to be taken

by the boxing world serious. And I think

if you open that door of a MMA guy

fighting under Zufa boxing, every guy on

the roster, every girl on the roster is

going to want to do the same. M

>> it just becomes a mess. I think

>> I don't know about that.

>> I don't think it's a mess.

>> I think there are some really fun MMA

boxing match ups you can make.

>> Yes. [ __ ] yes. Especially when guys get

older and you know, you don't want to go

through the training camp with wrestling

and leg kicks and all that [ __ ]

>> That's the thing. Like thinking about a

a boxing training camp,

>> dude. With no grappling, no wrestling,

just run condition and box. It would be

smooth sailing, dude. I would love it.

Yeah.

>> Isn't it funny?

>> I'm on the beach. As tough as boxing is

like for you like oh this is going to be

so

>> I only have to box that's great. Yeah,

honestly, man, in training camp, those

are my favorite days. Striking, sparring

is my favorite days. Like the wrestling

classes, two-hour macco on Monday. It's

like brutal, bro.

>> Well, it' be great for you because

you've always had great hands. Like for

you, that's a perfect

>> Well, I started I started boxing before

mixed martial arts,

>> you know?

>> That would be a perfect way for you to

get some other fights in. I don't

understand Zufa.

>> Yeah, I would just love to lace him up

and and box professionally once. I know

they want to like redo boxing and I know

they want to like and I think there's

probably some real merit there.

Obviously what the Saudis have done with

Riad's season has been amazing. You

know, making matchups that no one can ma

make because

>> I'm a big Conor Ben fan, too, man. I'm

excited to see him fight in Zufa and the

guy he's fighting from New Orleans. Like

I know the guy like, you know, it's it's

fun.

>> It is exciting and it it will definitely

I think they will elevate boxing and

Dana is throwing all of his cards into

that. So, I'm sure it's going to work.

>> Yeah, I'm glad we're seeing more boxing,

ZuF boxing, and less power slap on my

feed whenever I go to

>> online stuff, you know?

>> Yeah, I'm not a big fan.

>> I've never been to one, but man, it's

just [ __ ]

>> not my not my jam.

>> Yeah, when we when I fought my

retirement in New Orleans, Mike Brown

went to the power slap they had there,

and he said it was awesome in person.

>> Oh, sure. It's awesome to watch someone

get slapped, but like I'm not

interested.

>> I'll watch it on my [ __ ] phone every

now and then. I'll see. I mean, the

highlights are good enough. You see the

knockouts and the crazy stuff, but

>> it's great Tik Tok content

>> for sure.

>> You know, you watch someone get slapped

and they they go forward and their head

hits the desk and they fall backwards,

but it's like it's a concussion.

>> You watching

>> and you can't there's no defense.

There's no like you can't flinch or you

get it's penalty if you do.

>> That's crazy. That don't make any sense

to me. I don't I don't get it.

>> But I think they've missed out on the

opportunity to have a Muay Thai League.

That's what I think. I just America just

doesn't buy into it that big.

>> I don't think that's true.

>> No,

>> no, no. I just think they have

>> Well, I mean, one one is doing it on

Amazon and Yeah. You know,

>> but it's like who's watching Amazon.

That's the problem. You have a show on

Amazon. Like, I know guys who've

released comedy specials on Amazon.

Like, good luck finding it. Nobody

cares. That's just the reality of this

platform. Whatever. I mean, look, Amazon

is a phenomenal platform for buying

stuff. I love it for buying things. I

use it all the time

>> every week.

>> It's great for buying books, audio

books. is great for buying products, but

for watching content, it's kind of a

mess.

>> They had a couple big shows like The

Marvelous, Mrs. Masel, and The Terminal

List. Those are great shows, and those

brought a lot of people over there. But,

I mean, you know how big the Terminal

List would have been if it was on

Netflix. As big as it was on Amazon.

More people watch Netflix than were ever

going to watch anything on Amazon.

>> That's why what Jake's doing with the

Netflix and bringing boxing MMA there.

Like, it's it's big, man. It's big. So

many people are going to be watching

this. 100%. But I think that if one was

somewhere else, I think it would have

been on the way here today.

>> What?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. That got announced this morning.

>> An MMA fight.

>> That's what the Yeah, it's the third

fight on that card now.

>> That's the Rousey card. Yeah.

>> Oh, wow.

Interesting.

That's very interesting.

That's very interesting. That's a good

fight.

>> Dude, you said a lot of people don't go

to Amazon to watch TV. I just went I

just went down a rabbit hole for weeks

cuz I have a newborn at home. So, I did

the night shift and I ran out of [ __ ] to

watch on Netflix and on Hulu.

>> You ran out of [ __ ] to watch on Netflix,

>> dude. Staying up till 4:00 a.m. every

night with a baby boy is like I hours of

documentaries, hours of stuff. I

switched over to Amazon and it was like

a whole new world, man.

>> Well, there's a lot on there. It's just

they don't have the same viewers. Like

our podcast is on Amazon. The numbers

that we get from Amazon compared to

everywhere else is so small.

>> Yeah.

>> It's just the reality of the way they've

sort of marketed it. and Amazon Prime

Video just doesn't have the audience

that everything else does,

>> right? And it's such a big platform. You

think it would be crossover from

>> I think it's a mistake on their part

because the the the product side is so

big and like Amazon for buying stuff is

so big that it's almost like an

afterthought and they have some money in

it but not the same sort of focus. Also,

the interface when I've gone to it is a

little weird. It's hard to find things.

It's not as simple. Like the interface

on Netflix is like the algorithm is

great. It's really good at recommending

you things. It knows what you like. It

shows you things. It's easy to find

things

>> for sure.

>> Amazon's like a little tricky. You go

there and you're like, "What?" But see,

the one FC thing faces the same problem

that PFL has. Like look, PFL is on ESPN

Plus, so you would imagine PFL would get

the same sort of audience that the UFC

got, but it doesn't.

>> No, of course not. Because the UFC brand

is like NFL like

>> the machine. It's just

>> Yeah, they they own that space.

>> But the fights on 1FC are [ __ ]

amazing. Like especially the Muay Thai

fights

>> with the small gloves.

>> Oh my god, man. And I I was trying to

pitch this to Dana. So I started send

sending Dana, he goes, "Send me some."

So, I started sending him all these like

highlevel Muay Thai fights and highlevel

kickboxing fights and they're [ __ ]

phenomenal. Look, he didn't like the

Charles Olivea this excuse me, this Max

Holloway Charles Olivera fight. He

didn't like it.

>> Like the BMF fight, the fight wasn't

that good. I was like, I thought it was

a great fight.

>> It was impressive if you were a fan of

technique and a fan of how hard it is to

do that to somebody like Max. Like,

super impressive.

>> And I was a fan of Max's defense. I

mean, Oliver was on his back in the

first round. A lot of people would have

finished

>> the first minute and a half, I think.

You know, dry

>> right.

>> I got finished there.

>> Yeah. I mean, I think Olivivera is one

of the greatest submission artists that

ever competed in the sport, if not the

best.

>> Numbers I mean, numbers prove it.

>> Yeah. And against elite guys like you

and like Justin and like he's [ __ ]

>> And then Gamro, dude. Gameamrod is I

trained with him for years.

>> He's a wrestler, but his grappling is

incredible, man. Oh, he got tied up in

knots with Olivivera. Olive is a

nightmare.

>> I knew it could happen, but I didn't

think it would be that. You know,

>> I was stunned, too. I was like, God,

he's good. He's so good on the ground.

So, like, props to Max for surviving,

but if Dana didn't like it, so I started

sending him

>> for for the I mean, when you have the

title, the BMF, like you want to see

some violence.

>> I understand, but it's still just a

fight. You can't fight outside of your

competition