The biggest psychological tax cut in

history would be if we elected a

technocrat

who maybe checked in once a month.

>> Yeah, I agree.

>> But wasn't in your face every [ __ ]

day and dominating the table

conversation at dinner.

Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York

Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast

Network. I'm Cara Swisser with my annual

cold. Nice.

>> Uh, it seems it seems to be semianual.

See, the thing is it's kids.

>> Yeah, it is. But I haven't gotten sick

for a while, actually.

>> Yeah,

>> it's been a while. Very long. You

remember I got sick all the time when

they were babies.

>> I do remember that.

>> Yeah.

>> So, I'm I'm This is going to sound very

maha, but I think I've been sick two or

three times as an adult, and I'm

convinced it's because I never went to

the doctor and never had antibiotics as

a kid.

>> Oh, interesting. What? Really? That's

>> I get sick on the dime every 10 years.

>> Really? Of what?

>> I don't get sick. I have a cough or

something. But no, my point is I I

couldn't tell you the last time I was

sick.

>> Anyway, let's get to the news. As we

record, Cole Thomas Allen, the

31-year-old suspect in the White House

correspondent's dinner shooting, is set

to be arraigned in federal court. He'll

be charged with two counts of using a

firearm and one count of assault on a

federal official using a dangerous

weapon. US Attorney for DC Janine Piro

says more charges are expected. Alan was

arrested Saturday night after running

through a security checkpoint at the

Washington Hilton and exchanging fire

with law enforcement. Um, President

Trump and top officials were rushed out

of the room while journalists and other

attendees took cover under the tables

except one guy who kept eating his

salad. Um, the motive is still being

determined though Allen appeared to be

targeting Trump and the administration

officials but not Cash Patel for some

reason. According to his writings, he

also mentioned lack security and that he

expected more security there. He was a

guest at the hotel and he walked very

close to the ballroom. I have been there

and various people are debating it, but

he was very close. He's right before the

stairs that you go down into the

ballroom um having been there. Um we'll

get to to Trump and the the ballroom

stuff, but what was your initial

reaction and what do you make of the

coverage? I was I I was not I there's

some people did a great job and it's

worth noting by the way the president

cabinet officials and journalists

experience Saturday night is something

that many Americans face every day

especially school kids though without

the protection of the Secret Service. So

this was the finest protection in the

land and it didn't really work as well

as it should have. Um although nobody

got hurt um except for one officer uh

who was shot. Your first thoughts? Well,

my first thoughts were somewhat

superficial on that is the brand that is

the US is just eroding around the world.

You know, Putin isn't chased out by a

gunman of a hall that's supposed to be a

social gathering. It just America comes

across as a rogue nation that is chaotic

and has no control internally. But

immediately, I don't think I don't think

it's fair to say that the president is

so incendiary that this is his fault.

Nor do I think it's fair to say that the

Democrats being critical of the

president raises ele escalation of

violence. I think at the end of the day,

you have a large cohort of of usually

young men who have a mental breakdown or

a psychotic break and then they have

access to firearms and they typically go

after in what they believe will be a

restoration of social capital and a

heroic act of violence. They go after

very very famous people. And the thing

about Trump, and I'm not saying his

fault, but it is just a fact.

>> He's in everyone's [ __ ] face and in

their brain all goddamn day over and

over and over.

>> Yeah.

>> He's like the biggest psychological tax

cut in history

>> would be if we elected a technocrat

who maybe checked in once a month.

>> Yeah, I agree. but wasn't in your face

every [ __ ] day and dominating the

table conversation at dinner. And so the

most famous people will always

unfortunately be targets that that that

mental illness will manifest in more

shootings as long as people have access

this type of access to guns. If he had

tried to fly, he wouldn't have been able

to do it. But you can cross state lines

on a train with firearms. Also, my first

and I'll let you go. My also my first

reaction is when I heard about this guy,

a Caltech grad who was teacher of the

year.

>> He's a very good writer by the way

>> and he's very eloquent. You read his

manifesto and it's like Jesus, I don't

agree with it, but the guy is

>> it's just such a tragedy. His life is

ruined.

>> Yeah.

>> And to see to see an event I think the

event is [ __ ] stupid. I was invited

last year. I have no desire as part of

what I'll call the fringe alternative

media show up and have basically a

hijacker lecture me about air safety. I

do not understand how people in the

media go to a go to a celebration in

ties to hear a man say you're fake news

and you're I I have no idea why anyone

would show. Kudos to the New York Times

who does not go.

>> There were times reporters there

covering the president in the pool which

seems perfectly appropriate. They travel

with him wherever he goes. But I have to

say I just I covered it as back as I've

noticed you said I covered it back in

the Truman administration. Um I mean I

mean the Roosevelt administration tr

>> I got that I got that wrong. I'm sorry.

It was um it was uh yeah that's right. I

was going to I was waiting for I

couldn't remember FDR.

>> I hated it when I covered it 20ome years

ago. I thought it was such a suckup

between um public officials and the

media. I don't like the grid iron

dinner. I don't like any of I hated

covering them. And even then it seemed

like so um it's one of the reasons I

left Washington sort of the the cozy

relationship. And now he was going to

come and insult them. First of all,

everyone in that room in his cabinet has

taken shots at the press in a really

repulsive way. And even though other

presidents have been hostile to the

press, this is explicit attacks. Um and

so he was ready to and even Carolyn

Levit said it. He's some shots will be

fired. That's the last thing she said

like minutes before this happened to a a

media person. And he was going to attack

everyone. And I was thinking I was

talking to a few people there. I'm like,

"What are you going to do if he starts

directly attacking you or your company?

You're going to get up and walk in a

really gross and crass way, which he was

planning to do, I believe." Um, and then

of course he used the opportunity for

propaganda. Every single one of his

lackeyis messaged the same thing about

the ballroom. We'll get to that in a

second. Um, and and it just is this sort

of and I thought the press were

especially lap lap doggy throughout and

also performative as influencers. Three

people stood out as doing their job,

which was Wolf Blitzer, who happened to

be near the gunman. He just called in

from his phone and he said, "What

happened?" That's it. He didn't say, "I

I lost my shoe." Which he apparently

did. He didn't say, "Oh, wo is me." He

didn't act like um it was anything but

his job to say to tell CNN what

happened. Same thing with Sarah Seidner.

Very calm. Same thing actually with

Stephanie Rule. Tons of people both

online, especially online and on on the

air were like this is how I feel about

this. And I was like I don't give a [ __ ]

what you feel about it. What is

happening? What's going on? Um and a lot

of like there was one reporter who was

pointing the camera towards herself.

like I don't not what was happening like

I'm under the table. I'm like good for

you if you're going to do this pointed

outwards so we can see what's there was

plenty of video by the way which was

disturbing but um it just was this like

all these media people trying to behave

like and get their licks in like they

were influencers and I just and then of

course the influencers were too you know

doing you know all manner of nonsense.

So I found it very disappointing in the

press conference after they let him get

away with stuff. The only you know at

one point Norah O'Donnell from CBS which

has been particularly obsequious to

Trump got the interview but Norah did

try her best to do like tough question

not tough questions but pertinent

questions and Trump called her disgrace.

So he had just minutes just the day

before talked about unity and then he

was talk he was calling her a disgrace

and you're discuss whatever whatever

words he uses for the press. So, I

thought it was a fail. I thought init

the whole thing is a fail. Um, but it's

uh and then there was I mean a party I

happened to have been invited to which I

didn't go to obviously after they kept

doing the party, you know, it's just

weird. Anyway,

>> but we don't in a in a culture of

violence or again for me at all reverse

engineers do. We don't have a monopoly

on political division. We don't have a

monopoly on mentally ill men. We have a

monopoly on political division mentally

ill men with access to just such easy

access to firearms and also

>> the secret service. There's only so much

you can do if you want a president to go

out in the public. If you want to be

able to walk around freely

>> the most disappointing thing

>> that there was more private security

employed in America than there are cops

now and the secret service can only do

so much. The other thing is this levy is

such an enormous tax on us. One,

one of the things I love about my school

here in London, you know what they don't

have?

>> They do not have shooter drills.

>> Yeah.

>> I I just don't think any 11year-old

should have to engage in a shooter

drill. I just something's wrong, right?

And

the other tax we're about to all pay as

someone who travels a lot. I travel a

lot to hotels where there'll be some

political event or whatever or they're

hosting the president of Finland. It's

going to be another [ __ ] 10 minutes

to get in and out of a hotel now because

part of the security lapse here was this

guy figured out a hack and that is just

staying at the hotel being a guest. You

get past the first level of security.

>> He could have gotten all the way to the

ballroom without that. I have to tell

you it's

>> But didn't he have did wasn't it easier

because he checked into the hotel?

>> He could bring his gun in. Yes. But he

could have hidden a gun easily. There

there is so little I've go I don't go to

these things anymore cuz there's so

little security. And then the fact that

you have to do security. I I mean

although I have to say there was there

was more security at a concert than you

know than anything else that I've been

to. But this should be the top level of

security. And then you had the whole

press corps hiding under tables. It's

just the whole visual is so bad. And

then the per and then Trump of course

took advantage of it in the aftermath of

the shooting. He was quick to say the

incident underscored the need for his

$400 million White House ballroom. He

argued that if the event had been held

in a military top secret ballroom,

whatever that is, the shooting never

would have happened. Of course, well,

no, the White House has been attacked.

But still, um, it's not just Trump. MAGA

accounts and I said administration

officials started like acting ag Todd

Blanch are tweeting about the ballroom

instantly. There were con, of course,

the worst part about it were these

conspiracy theories floating around from

the left and the right claiming the

shooting was staged or that they let him

in so that they could create a situation

so that they can pitch the ballroom or

that it wasn't they had him in a holding

room. Uh, you know, this that was in

insane, you know.

>> So, so ju just a just a quick comment

because I'm I'm really I'm asking this

question and I'm open to learning here

because I purposely try to avoid media

this weekend.

the notion that okay this is the world

we live in both sides will try and make

political hay of it that in fact one use

of the ballroom might be an an ability

to have more secure events like this or

events like this with more security to

me distinct of the im immediate

politicization of a of a violent event

or near violent event was wrong but that

argument to me seems reasonable your

thoughts

>> yes yes but not the way he did it and

he's just trying to jam it through he

just tore down the house without any he

is supposed to consult with Congress.

He's he just he just wanted to jam it

through. There's also a whole facility

under there that nobody knows anything

about. Probably should they. Um but the

except for the right people, but um who

whose job it is is to protect the White

House. Um there's no question they need

a ballroom at the White House. I've gone

there a million times and it's really

underwhelming as a as a facility. That

said, this event couldn't have fit in

that. It's too small. the even though

the ballroom is ridiculously large. So

he the fact that he took the opportunity

for something it could have never taken

place there um was one thing but I don't

I I'm not I don't equivalent

for lots of reasons for Prince King

Charles etc etc bringing more people in

having more events there although that's

a thing of it in and of itself if you've

ever tried to get in and out of the

White House that takes 3 years sometimes

um but that's not the it's not linked I

link it suddenly here and and it just

seemed like oh let's you any opportunity

of a disaster or a tragedy to push for

something that is unreasonable to have a

ballroom. It's unreasonable how he did

it and then use this as an excuse to do

so. I think it just is it makes us look

just lots of people don't want the

ballroom. Most people think it's a good

idea if he had done it in the way where

he's consulting architects, where he's

consulting Congress and everything else.

Instead, he's now going to try to shove

it through. And then the instant

something tragic happens, MAGA accounts

and these administration officials,

every opportunity is an opportunity for

press in order to to to either shine up

himself as a hero of some sort or to get

what he wants. And that to me is not how

America works. I'm sorry. I just I I

agree with you. It's reasonable to think

we should have a ballroom, but they

could only hold a certain amount of

things in this ballroom even gargantuan

size.

>> I just thought you just walk away. You

always want to walk away with this was

right, this was wrong, this is who's at

fault. I just looked at this and just

said, "This is bad." I just

>> You're right. I think

>> there's not I don't think it illuminates

anything about Democrats or Republicans

or the president. I think what it

illuminates is our country is in a

terrible state and and okay, let me

blame someone. I just I think in 30

years we're going to look back on this

era and we're we're going to be just

horrified at how we put cyanide in our

drinking water called social media

>> and kept drinking it

>> and just it makes everyone more

Americans are fearful of their neighbors

than Russian soldiers pouring over the

border in Ukraine. They're convinced the

enemy is the guy with the wrong

political sign across the street from

him or her. And every day you're taught

to believe in what is a page out of the

fascist handbook, which is incredibly

unfortunately profitable. You're taught

to believe that it's the enemy within.

It's not climate change. It's not income

inequality. It's not it's not a fascist

government or someone trying to invade

Europe. It's not the cease. The enemy is

within is us.

>> Is us. The enemy is us. No, I agree with

you. It feels very McCarthy era and

you're right. The constant non-stop

pitching. I don't I think the media

Trump has been doing prop propaganda for

a decade now. It's a decade in our

brains and the media still hasn't

figured out how to cover him. They

should get back to the important things.

Iran, affordability, gas prices. You

know, I do think the Epstein files is an

important story. I don't think it's the

most important story, but it talks it's

about corruption, about corruption,

about um getting getting kids safe in

schools. Like, if this is an opportunity

to talk about kids if they suddenly feel

nervous cuz they had a toss under the

table to understand what it's like for

kids, fine. Like, I don't care. I just

think no one behaved in any way that was

any way that is American to me. Anyway,

we'll move on. Go ahead. Sorry. Let me

just have one side note because

obviously I've been getting all these

Tik Toks. I will say this, there was a

contrast just going to this this Steven

Miller.

>> Uhhuh.

>> I do not like the guy.

>> Neither do I. He did walk out his wife

in a very

>> He did walk out his wife. Did you see

what the other men did?

>> Yeah, they ran.

>> They ran.

>> And Carol Hines was chasing RFK.

>> Yeah, I feel I feel petty even saying

this, but at least like like to Stephen

Steven Miller's instincts were the

correct ones.

>> Yeah, he did. He he had his hands on his

wife and was escorting his wife out. Um

>> anyway, I there's no way not to come

away from this and just feel a little

bit shittier. I don't

>> I would agree. I think that's exactly

the reaction to have. I just I would

like the press I I don't Trump is Trump.

He's going to behave anyway the the same

way every single time and then he'll

switch right back to nasty.

Let me say the press could do a better

job. And I do give kudos to people who

just were reporting the facts and I

agree. It's a news story, but seriously,

I don't really I I No, I know a lot of

people are traumatized, but I don't want

to know how you feel. I want you to tell

me what's happening as a news news

organization. That's all. And I don't

want to know what you think of unity. I

don't know what I don't want to hear

about it. I just want you to tell me

what's going on, who this guy is, and do

the reporting. Anyway, I love the media,

and I was repulsed. Um, okay. Uh, let's

go on a quick break. When we come back,

Elon Musk and Samman head to court. big

story. Actually,

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Scott, we're back with more news. Elon

Musk and Sam Alman are headed to court

this week over OpenAI's conversion to a

for-profit entity. Musk is asking for

over $150 billion in damages from OpenAI

and Microsoft and for Altman to be

removed from the company's board and and

a CEO. I think um jury selection is

taking place as we tape on Monday and

opening arguments are expected on

Tuesday starting off with several week-l

long trial. Musk Alman and Sacha Nadella

as well as other big tech figures are

expected to testify. I we got a clip

from um actually CNN legal uh senior

legal analyst Ellie Honeig who I've

interviewed many times for. I think he's

really smart on what's to come. I

thought he would have an interesting

take. The thing about trial is it all

comes out because both sides by now have

engaged in discovery, meaning they have

one another's internal emails, texts,

corporate communications. Three things

I'm watching for. First of all, what

were Altman and Musk and their

principles saying about AI? Do they view

it as an existential threat or something

else? Second of all, what do the

employees think of the bosses? What are

the people who work in these companies

really saying to one another about Sam

Alman and Elon Musk? What are they

saying about Caris Swisser? I'll bet

you're in there, Cara. I'll bet your

name pops up in this trial. And then

third of all, how will Altman and Musk

fare on cross-exam? Cuz these are two

guys, moguls, used to being told, "Yes,

sir. Yes, sir." Now they're going to get

cross-examined by aggressive litigators

who are looking to undermine them,

discredit them, maybe even embarrass

them. How's that going to go? This will

be fascinating. Check it out.

>> Uh, I thought that was pretty smart. I

mean, it's the technical aspects of this

are really interesting. Um, what I don't

understand is why this was going to

trial, why they didn't settle. Um, the

only thing I can think of is that I mean

to me open a should have somehow settled

with him. But there's no plus for Musk

to settle even though most odds are that

he is going to lose. Um, it's a really

complex trial. It's a jury trial but the

jurors cannot decide on dies. The judge

only can. The judge allowed certain

things to go forward that most people

think are ridiculous. Um, you know, most

of the odds are Musk will not win. But I

can't believe they didn't settle cuz my

only thing is is Musk loves this. He's

already a villain. And when you you

start wrestling with a pig, the pig

likes it and you get filthy. And so I

don't think it's good for open AI at

all.

>> It's interesting. I had and again you

you you might be right here, I might be

wrong. My initial reaction was that Musk

has more to lose and that he'll settle

right as the trial is beginning or right

after it starts.

>> Okay. Tell me why

>> Musk isn't doing this cuz he's Okay, so

the basic premise is this is supposed to

be a nonprofit

focusing on

protecting the public from AI. Okay. He

then, my understanding is wanted to buy

it or he wanted to control it.

>> He wanted to control it. Yes. And then

walked out. He did walk out.

>> And so and then when Alman said, "No,

you don't get to control it." He said,

"Then I'm taking my ball and I'm

leaving." thing and he signed a ton of

documents saying I no longer have

ownership in this.

>> Yeah.

>> And then when it converted to become the

leading AI platform in the world, he

went [ __ ] crazy

>> and he has his own company

>> that he But here's a guy who's very

concerned with ensuring there's an

entity policing AI safety and

regulation, but he starts his own

forprofit AI.

>> Yeah, exactly.

>> As your the commentator very deafly

said, these guys aren't used to a

cross-examination with emails that says,

"I'm not impressed with you. You are

full of [ __ ] You wanted to control

this. When you couldn't control it, you

threw a hit. You threw a fit. You have

signed papers that are legally

enforcable with no ownership. And now,

>> like the Twitter when he took over tried

to get out of the Twitter deal saying,

>> "Yeah, this guy, he's angry that he he

walked away from what ended up being the

best I kicking myself because I've had

two investments recently that have gone

bad and they needed to raise more

capital. And one of the things about

investing early is you have your pro

rata. And I wasn't sure whether to

invest or not. And on one specifically,

I didn't do my PR rata. And then they

figured out a way to develop these

innovative turbines to power off-grid AI

centers. And the valuation has gone up

10x.

>> Wow. And so you feel like I'm a

>> and now I'm [ __ ] furious.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> But I'm not going to go back and sue the

company. I mean,

>> right.

>> So I I think Discovery here I think

Musk's lawyers are going to say, you

realize you can't perger yourself. this

isn't Twitter. You can't lie. And when

they he goes, "This is the" and they the

day before in the briefing or the

coaching of him, they're going to say,

"This is what I would ask you and you

can't lie and this is the evidence

they're going to bring up and he's going

to go settle this."

>> Yeah.

>> I think he's playing poker.

>> Like, by the way, he has settled.

>> Remember the Delaware Chancery Court?

>> Yeah. Mhm.

>> He was like, "Threatening threatening

threatening." Okay.

>> I I think you're very smart here. I

think that's probably my I don't believe

none of them settled you know I don't I

guess going to court is always like why

couldn't you possibly settle this right

essentially very crude instrument

>> which I don't understand why neither of

them did on both sides right

>> and it seemed like I mean it's always up

until the trial where they settle right

that's always the

>> well he's trying to slow them down he's

trying to create doubt

>> that's the other thing

>> hurt their fundraising capabilities slow

them down IPO So

>> I think if I believe if Musk want Musk

ideally I believe if he was and he's

very smart would be trying to delay the

case to create to maintain

>> he has I think he has done that. I think

he's out

>> and Open AI wants to go to court and say

you signed papers

>> legally forfeiting your ownership and

governance here. Yeah,

>> you're out.

>> Yeah. One of the things that's

interesting about it is that obviously

he created his own companies that aren't

doing as well. um is that he when I when

he both of them started talking about

this back in the day they were worried

about the strength of Google and

Facebook and others they were maybe in

their own self-interest but at the time

it was a real I would say a genuine

worry about where AI was being developed

especially that the government had

abregated its responsibility so you know

these two have come a long way what's

interesting it's also a duel of their

reputations now Elon's full-on villain

now right so it'll be interesting to see

how jury thinks of him. Alman now

doesn't have a great reputation, right?

Is he a liar? There's a lot of, you

know, after the Ronan Pharaoh piece and

everything else. The thing is, I think

most juries haven't really paid

attention to the Sam Alman portion of

this reputation decline. I think they

all know Elon Musk is a giant [ __ ]

So, I think that probably um or you

know, every bit of him jumping up and

down and being so partisan and you know,

posting racist stuff all over the he's

doing that more than ever recently. Um

I think he's in in a on his back foot on

this because I as much as I'd like to

paint Sam as this oily liar essentially,

I don't think it's sunk in with most

people. I don't I just don't I don't

think they even know who he is kind of

thing. But

>> not only that, the secret weapon here I

think for

for OpenAI will be Nadella. I think

Nadella will reflect really well on Open

AI. He comes across as very measured.

>> Yeah.

>> And I I I would love to be I would love

to be the defense council here. It's

like, okay, so you're claiming you're so

concerned about protection and safety.

What have you done? Have you did you go

and start? You have you're the

wealthiest man in the world. Did you

start another entity looking at safety

or oh wait, you've you've you started a

for-profit AI and you're competing

against this company. Isn't this nothing

but an attempt to slow them down because

you're jealous you [ __ ] up and sold

your shares? I I just I think this is

going to be a very easy narrative for

for the defense to say this the

wealthiest man in the world is trying to

abuse you, waste your time and get in

the way of the capitalism, the small

part of capitalism, the small part of

the internet he doesn't own and he's

furious about it. He owns space. He owns

EVs. He owns, you know, a 180 character

messaging application. But because he

[ __ ] up and sold the best corner of

AI, he now wants it back.

>> He wants everything. Yeah. He's this

greedy [ __ ] Yeah, it's true. I don't

think slamming Alman's going to work

here. And he's tried to, trust, he's

really tried to and personally and

professionally. Um, but

>> it'll make them both look bad. There'll

be emails that'll come out that'll be

like, "Everyone look bad.

>> Everyone looks bad." Well, it's great.

It's great for brand AI. Again, the only

one who looks good, Daario, whom I spent

time with this weekend. He's a

>> What was your general impression?

>> It was an off the record thing, but he

was, I have to say, very funny. Doesn't

like any of these people, by the way.

>> Um, but very funny. I'm not going to

call him Steve Jobs, but he at least had

range to talk about. You know, I reread

his essay um machines of loving grace,

which I hated the headline of many. It

was two years ago and was talking about

that and I have to say he's ariodite

like he was quoting from Arcadia and

stuff like that. And I think he he's a

he's a very complex and interesting

figure and much more jolly than I give

him credit for in a way. So he's it's

you know he's having the time of his

life because they're all like shooting

each other in the head and he's merrily

going along and being the successful one

and creating the best technology. So

anyway, I I I really actually I hate to

say this cuz I I really enjoyed talking

to him. I did. It was it was fun. It was

he also give gives as good as he gets.

Um and I like that like he wasn't scared

of questions which a lot of them get all

>> Did you do it was it on with Caris

Fisher? No, not yet. But he's coming on

with car and I told him about your

interest. Anyway, I really enjoyed it.

It was an enjoyable interview, I have to

say. Um, by the way, speaking of Sam

Alman, he apologized to the community of

Tumblr Ridge for failing to alert

authorities about an account of a

shooter who killed eight people and

whose chat GPT account was suspended for

violent messages. In the letter, Altman

reaffirmed a commitment to find ways to

prevent similar tragedies in the future.

I I this is it's always a backwards

looking like oh sorry I don't know I

just feel like they can apologize all

they want why don't they create services

that have some level of safety or

reporting uh despite all the free speech

stuff there's some clear clear worries

that people have if you had someone in

your neighborhood who was doing this you

would turn them in would so I don't know

what to say

>> we had a school I was involved in

Florida you know we had a kid writing or

drawing violent weird images. Next day

FB FBI was at their house looking for

firearms.

And so there's got to be I mean to Sam's

credit he did what most of these guys

don't do. He apologized um and he's he

is claiming to want to put in some sort

of safeguards

but he we shouldn't need their apologies

and their safeguards. There should be

regularly help here.

>> It should be liability. It should be you

guys have this you have technology that

can scan basically everything that's

ever been written in history and then

start making really intelligent thesis

on what should be written about this

topic by recognizing past patterns of

everything that has been written in

history. You should be able to highlight

threats pretty easily and then

immediately using the agentic layer

notify that local police department and

not overwhelm them but say okay this is

level nine threat.

>> Right. Exactly.

>> What do you want to do with it? What how

can we cooperate with you?

>> And that's where humans get involved. We

you know they they observe it. This is

just reporting possible danger and it

should be easy for these people but it's

not. By the way, speaking of Anthropic,

Google plans to invest as much as $40

billion in the company, $10 billion now,

and another $30 billion would be

invested when Anthropic meets certain

milestones. Probably smart move from

Google, who is also a dominant player in

this who is quietly I think remember

your I said I think Google will win all

this because they have all the parts. I

think they've handled this really well

and I think investing in anthropic in

this case is probably a very good idea

for them.

>> Yeah. And then what I saw which shocked

me is there it's val the deal values

anthropic at 350 billion. I was

potentially I indirectly own anthropic

shares but

>> no from you bought the Sam Bankman Freed

stuff right

>> yeah about the FTX claims which owned a

bunch of anthropic lot

>> um but anyways the uh in the secondary

market I follow the secondary markets

anthropic trading at a trillion dollars.

>> Wow.

>> Anthropic is now trading at a higher

valuation in the secondary markets than

>> Open AI. So Google coming in here,

they'll get a preference on it.

>> They're strategic. Yeah, it's a great

investment. I would invest. Um, hello

Dario. I would invest at 300 of $350

million.

>> I'll I'll give you his let him know.

Anyway,

>> not a journalist. Not

>> a journalist. I do not want to invest

Dario, but I I really did enjoy talking

to you. Uh, last thing, Meta Plans lay

off around 10% of its workforce. It sort

of went under the radar. 6,000 open and

closed 6,000 open roles. The company's

chief people officer said the move was

being made to run the c company more

efficiently and to offset other

investments. Maybe that he lost 75

billion in the metaverse. But meanwhile,

Microsoft will begin offering voluntary

buyouts to 7% of US employees. One-time

retirement program will be available to

employees whose age and years of service

total 70 or higher. This is these are

just stacking up these big tech layoffs

where they're trying I mean I think they

overhire during co as you and I both

said. Um, but this is a real tipping

point to impact overall employment

levels. It seems these were the big

hirers and now they're the big fireers

at this point.

>> As I said, AI is corporate ompic. It's

turned off the signal that in order to

grow, you need more calories. In this

case, calories means employees. And I've

had I had Andrew Yang on my podcast

who's having another moment because an

Andrew is very early and precient about

capital replacing labor. Capital

displacing labor. and and he's now

getting a lot of attention correctly for

and he's on this whole the capital the

capital destruction of labor here is

just going to be dramatic and he's

pointing to these companies. You do

though have to have some perspective and

that is pre- pandemic meta 2019 had

35,000 employees now they have 80. So

firing 8,000 people quite frankly takes

them back to I think late 2024, early

2025.

>> They overhired, that's for sure.

>> So the the scary thing is these guys are

early adopters of AI and as their

revenues grow, they're actually

shrinking their workforce, which is

amazing for earnings. But if they're the

early adopters and this starts to

waterfall down to other parts of the

economy, you can see why people are

scared. And Andrew said something really

appreciate or I thought insightful. He

said, "The easiest people to fire are

the people you haven't hired yet." And

this is going to put pressure on new

hires out of college. And I I don't want

to come across as non-empathetic,

but when I graduated from Berkeley, 40%

of us had jobs on graduation day, which

meant 60% didn't.

>> Yeah, I did. And we're we're so used to

anyone under the age of 40 or 45 has

only really known one labor economy

where there's a war for talent,

>> especially educated talent. And what's

interesting about this cycle is for the

first time in decades, the unemployment

rate among college grads is greater than

the unemployment rate among non-ol

grads. So I I look at this as quite

frankly just part of an economic cycle.

I don't buy the catastrophizing. The key

question is there's no doubt this is a

disruption that's going to displace

certain types of information work that

can be routinized. The question is how

severe and fast it'll be because

typically when we no longer need

elevator operators or we no longer need

sewing machine operators or secretaries,

it's been slow enough such that the

majority of the people are able to

adapt, retrain and find something else.

Not all of them but the majority of

them. The fear here is that the V is so

severe and so fast that even if there

was a potential recovery, there's going

to be so many people left out in the

dust.

>> Well, that's cuz people were going to

those job, right? That was where they,

you know, I have to say, Alex Wisher

called this one a while back. He's like,

I'm going into mechanical engineering

and energy. He got right. I thought he

would go into computer software and he

said, no, AI will replace all these

things. Um, which I thought was pretty

pressing of him. And so he's working on

areas where there is, you know,

>> things making things

>> making things forward employment. And

interestingly, Louis Swisser now may

have three jobs um because he's working

on a campaign. He's he's and he's trying

doing cooking jobs. Two really

interesting cooking jobs. So he's trying

a variety of things which are not

replaceable, right? which were really

it's really kind of he has it's just

interesting like but I have to tell you

both of them were thinking about this

without my prompting like where is the

where are the where's employment going

but um but but young people have to

think really hard now about that and

figure

>> yeah but they'll they'll be fine because

their mom is rich

>> no I understand that but they're making

their own money

>> middle class warfare there by the way

>> make their own money

>> by the way car how do you spot the blind

man at anus each.

>> Oh, wow.

>> Cara, it's not hard.

>> Oh,

all these jokes now they're like take a

minute.

>> Little little second order. I'm going

for the intelligent stuff. I'm going for

the stuff that takes me an hour to

figure out cuz I know that hard penis.

Got it. Um, anyway, I just think it's I

think young people have to really think

hard. AI is going to is going to

massively level up some people and

massively massively

>> uh level down level down others. But and

again I I'm a contrarian say this was

brought up in this you know someone

asked about the idea that we sort of

could care less about workingass people

during the during the NAFTA days and now

you want us to cry for information

workers

>> for people making a ton of who are

taking making a ton

>> and one of the things and I it was off

the record but one of the things I think

is just an obvious thing that Daria

pointed out was that it does level up

the workers right because like if you're

plum it does it's people have college

level information at their fingertips.

tips that is easily digested. Exactly.

Right. There's

>> which is interesting.

>> There were more new business

applications formed in the last 12

months than I think in any time in

history. If Alex wants to start his own

small company milling and manufacturing

ball bearings for some weird esoteric

use, he doesn't need $10 million in

capital and 40 engineers.

He needs he needs, you know, $50,000 and

a bunch of site licenses and one or two

co-founders. So there's a there's a ton

of um there's a ton of opportunity. I

the very basic axiom and the thing the

thing I I think the next a lot of our

candidates should be focused on is that

if you loosely break down the labor

economy or capital formation to

shareholders/investors,

workers and consumers, it's pretty easy.

We need, you've had a massive leakage of

power, leverage, and capital from

consumers and labor to investors. And we

need public policy, whether it's

alternative minimum taxes, taxes on uh

shares that you borrow against, um maybe

some form of uh lowering estate tax,

lowering estate tax exemptions. We need

to transfer capital back from investors

to employees and consumers.

>> Yeah, I agree. And it's a fairly basic

dynamic. These three entities investors

as a percentage of our GDP

share the the market cap has never been

higher. As a percentage of our GDP,

wages have never been lower. This isn't

rocket science. We need policies. You

talked about one. Increase minimum wage.

Stop taxing earners as much. Start

taxing owners more. It's not it's not

complicated. People will create this

incredible like arguments that it's

about things they can't control like

network effects and AI. Don't tax.

There's talk about an AI tax. There's

not an you shouldn't have an AI tax. You

should have an alternative minimum tax

for any profitable company that's making

billions and billions. This notion

Andrew and and Andrew I think gets it 70

or 80% right. And we had a really

productive conversation and I I'm I love

Andrew Yang. I'm an investor in his

company because I I have so much

confidence in him. But if you start I

hate industry specific taxes. There's a

lot of talk about an AI tax right now.

No. Have a tax lower payroll taxes such

that it's not more expensive to hire

someone than buy a robot, right? And

have some sort of cap. Don't let people

depreciate capex in year one and have

payroll taxes such that it's more

economically advantageous to buy a

[ __ ] robot as opposed to hiring

somebody.

>> That's a really good point. There's just

like some basic people now focused on

and I have to say that people are very

much and I think just because of these

layoffs at Meta and Microsoft they they

bring people's attention to it in a way

that because they're supposed to be the

big job places and so

>> the bell weathers for the whole economy.

>> Exactly. So I think I more and more

people are thinking about this idea of

where our employment goes which is

always a good thing. Anyway um let's go

on a quick break. When we come back the

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Scott, we're back. The DOJ is ending its

criminal probe into the Federal Reserve

and its chair, Jerome Powell. Although

the US Attorney, Janine Pero, is warning

the case could be reopened if new facts

emerge. As usual, they always cover

their [ __ ] bases. Still, uh, Senator

Tom Tillis says he's ready to move

forward with the confirmation of Trump's

nominee, Kevin Worsh. And with that

hurdle removed, Worsh's confirmation by

the end of Powell's term on May 15th is

looking likely. At his confirmation

hearing last week, Worsh rejected the

idea that he's Trump's sock puppet. Um,

hence the long how long after he's

confirmed as Trump threatened to fire

him. Let's just remember Trump hired

Jerome Powell. He just it wasn't a sock

puppet. And that was a problem for Trump

who's trying to take over. I think Tom

Telis did a great job here. Now, let's

see if Janine Piro tries to do some

tricks after Worshes um is uh in place.

They could do that cuz they're a bunch

of persistent liars. Um so, and quick

thoughts.

>> Um I'm glad kudos to Senator Tillis. I

think he's the reason that it was

dropped and

I'd like to see most of these cases uh

continue. I love I love that Patel uh

Director Patel filed a suit against the

Atlantic. I would love the discovery

against Patel. By the way,

>> that tribe will never see the light

today.

>> No, he lost he lost one or

>> his lawyers are going to sit him down

and go, "Okay, these are the questions

they're going to ask."

>> Yeah,

>> that was a ridiculous. That was lawfair.

That was a nuisance suit. I'm glad it's

been dropped. That's just that's just a

a distraction. But I also want to bring

up I've I've been very complimentary of

Walsh. I was again rattled by his

inability to state on the record

>> that Biden won the 2020 election.

>> I agree with you. He was a sock puppet.

I think Warren did a great job

interviewing him. By the way,

>> it's okay. You're supposed to be You're

claiming you're going to be an

independent Fed, which is key to the

growth of an economy, and you won't. So,

was Chairman Powell appointed legally? I

mean there at some point folks there has

to be a truth and you have to you have

to be willing to state that truth under

oath and they all state the same thing

saying he was duly sworn in

>> right yeah oh my god

>> I know I know he really was a wimp he

definitely took some shine off of him

I'll tell you that and I think they all

feel that way like even Tillis said to

me when I interviewed him look I had to

say those things cuz if not I'd get run

over I would be a martyr is dead you

know a martyr is dead so I don't what to

tell you. Um, and that's a really

ridiculous way to hire this thing. And

of course, Trump will continue to try.

He has two years to try to [ __ ] up the

feds. So, he will. So, Kevin Marsh, get

ready. You better start to find a

backbone. Um, also, speaking of

communism, the Trump administration is

reportedly considering invoking the

Defense Product uh, Production Act to

bail out Spirit Airlines, though it's

still unclear what exactly the

justification would be. There's talk of

a plan that would loan Spirit, which has

filed for bankruptcy twice, about $500

million. In exchange, the government

would own as much as 90% of the airline.

It's a playbook we've seen before Trump

with the government taking stakes in

Intel, US Steel, and others. But Trump

is facing push back correctly from

fellow Republicans with Senator Ted Cruz

calling the bailout a terrible idea. Um,

you've said many times that some

companies deserve to fail. Is Spirit one

of them?

>> This is [ __ ] insane. Insane. Our, let

me get this. We're capitalists on the

way up and then on the way down we bail

out companies. We're crony. So we're

total that's not even socialism. It's

cronyism.

Bankruptcy as someone who has started

companies who have gone bankrupt. As

someone who's invested in companies that

have gone bankrupt as someone who's been

on an operator, an investor in a company

as we pull it emerge it out of

bankruptcy. Bankruptcy is a feature not

a bug. Uh a company's the market changes

and the company no longer can support

the assets and obligations it has given

changes in the market. It declares

bankruptcy. They get an umbrella,

basically coverage to get out of leases,

to get out of capital or expenses or

debt to Boeing or sell their gates. They

get out of union contracts. They get to

repackage and they reemerge to fight

another day. When you start bailing out

companies that aren't sustainable, all

you do is invite taxpayers to bail out

more. The government is not supposed to

pick winners and losers here. Delta,

American, and United all had CEOs who

paid themselves $150 million in

compensation due to options that were

artificially elevated because they took

all of their free cash flow pre-COVID

and used it to buy back shares, juicing

their stock, juicing their options, see

above 150 million in compensation. And

then when [ __ ] gets real and COVID comes

and the airlines shut down, they all

decide all of a sudden, we're all in

this together. And they go [ __ ] hat

in hand. They should have all been

allowed to go bankrupt. And guess what?

And we we've decided that airlines are

somewhat uniquely American and that we

need to bail out Spirit. [ __ ] that.

Burn, baby, burn. This sh this [ __ ]

should absolutely go out of business.

And guess what? In 3 years, it's more

likely to survive under the protection

from its creditors of a Chapter 11

bankruptcy. This is stupid.

>> Stupid. I agree. I don't You've said it

best. I it'll be interesting to see like

I remember interviewing Chimath

Polyhaped who said essentially this what

he's saying now like he's like no what

we really need to do is protect these

things. You're right them companies

deserve to

>> that's socialism and as Margaret

Thatcher said with socialism eventually

you run out of other people's money. You

end up with Delorean.

>> You end up with Air France where you

pick national champions and keep bailing

them out. Do you remember what it was

called? And air chance

that it was so bad. You don't remember.

>> Bankruptcy. I've been involved. I was on

the board of Eddie Bower. They put me on

the board when they were going bankrupt.

Remember them?

>> Yeah.

>> And And we decided, okay, the way to the

way to do it was to Did you just say you

liked it?

>> No, I never did.

>> I was always like I walked in cuz then

Patagonia showed up or something

whatever else or or REI and then

>> keep up. But anyways, the one of the

wonderful things about America is that

one, we let people and companies fail.

And two,

we give them a second chance. And a key

component of that, a key construct of

that is bankruptcy law.

>> Yep. Yep. It works well. It works well.

It keeps everyone clean. Um, speaking of

not clean, a US Army soldier has been

charged with making $400,000 by betting

on the removal of Venezuelan leader

Maduro on poly market. soldier used

classified information. He's quite close

to the situation to make wagers in the

weeks leading up to the capture. Poly

market said it referred the matter to

the Justice Department. Again, of

course, of course, like nobody's

catching the Trump people. They get the

soldier who pulls this [ __ ]

>> Exactly. Right. um you know but uh you

know he shouldn't be exposing classified

information but they have got to clean

up their acts poly market and the rest

of them because insiders it's got to be

dead obvious to them who's doing this

right including the Trump family or

whoever close affiliations are doing

this they've got to go after a big fish

not this I mean this soldier did the

wrong thing he's betraying his his his

uh job um but uh it seems like we're

picking up the little fish

Yeah, but okay.

I mean, my defense would be, well, our

commander-in-chief is doing it, isn't

he? I mean, I think I think a really

scrappy state GA or attorney general

should be suing this guy and then

figuring out a way to have discovery at

the highest levels to see if they're

doing it because I think this is going

on everywhere.

>> Yeah.

>> Now, I don't Is it fair to say he

revealed confidential information or he

just traded on it?

>> He knew about what was I think he was

part of that team. So,

>> but he didn't reveal he didn't

compromise the security. just traded on

it

>> in betting on it. He certainly did by

saying, "I know the outcome." Nobody

knew who he was, but he was using so

sideways, I guess. I don't know. I guess

there's no getting around it. It's

wrong.

>> Yeah. But when people who make more

money as elected officials are making

more money engaging in similar type

behavior, whether it's trading on

insider information in stocks or

insider, the the options activity before

Trump announces anything about the war

in the oil market is crazy. So there are

clearly dozens if not hundreds of people

perhaps even including cabinet members

who are making money

>> in the predictions markets. And so

>> let's find them.

>> Yeah. So have it. And by the way, the

the the enforcement division for crypto,

that was the one of the first divisions

where they were fired.

>> That's right.

>> Anyone rem anyone kind of any sheriff,

anyone with a badge actually looking

into this stuff has been fired. Uh the

same way they've neutered the IRS

because they're like the the greatest

way, you know, the easiest way to commit

crimes is to make sure there's no

enforcement.

>> No, no cops.

>> I don't want to say I feel for this guy,

but I think his defense is going to be

pretty robust. And it's

>> pointing up pointing up

>> and it goes back to the same thing. Poly

market and cowshi shouldn't have to

shouldn't have to decide. I mean so for

example I think kshi find somebody for

for some congress people for trading.

>> No they kicked them off the platform I

think.

>> Gave them off the platform. Okay.

>> I think that's like Ford Motor

figuring out that someone was going 100

miles an hour in their Mustang and then

repossessing the Mustang. It's not up to

Ford. It's up to the highway patrol.

It's up to the government.

>> If they have a business, they should

make sure insider trading is not being

used to bet. It's unfair to the people

on their platform. By the way, it

doesn't

>> I think it's the government's job.

>> I know, but for their own self-interest,

if there's all these insiders [ __ ]

with you, it's a shitty platform, right?

So, they don't have

>> I get it, but it's good for their

business not to for people to feel like

it's all gamed by rich sons of Trump

administration officials, etc.

>> So, there's Okay, to be fair, so I'm

just thinking this through. There's in

finance there's know your customer and

to trade on a platform they have to

ensure you're an accredited investor.

There is some regulation by the banks

around trading. But

>> compliance divisions all investment

banks do all they all have compliance

divisions.

>> But isn't it pretty easy to hide your

identity? Did this guy sign up as

master?

>> They can find them. They can find he

did. He tried but it's not that hard.

But is it the is it the platform's

responsibility or is it the government's

responsibility and cooperation

>> to alert people to unusual trades

seconds before that kind of stuff they

can do and then alert government

>> I don't doubt it but the enforcement

mechanism and and penalties should be

>> govern it enforcement is referrals right

and that's the thing anyway not a good

look for them but not a good look for

anyone but you know what this soldier

he's a cheater but look keep looking

upwards everybody because and then they

and you should because lots of people

have benefit.

>> All I got to say is that we're going to

put the wrong guy in prison.

>> That's right. That's right. All right.

Anyway, one more quick break. When we

get back, we'll have wins and fails.

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to learn more. Okay, Scott, let's hear

some wins and fails. You would you like

me to start?

>> You go first.

>> You know, I'm going to stick um there in

between this. the Trump administration

terminated se uh the board, the National

Science Foundation's board. Um which

again, it's he does all these things all

the time. He's trying to hollow out any

kind of compliance or over people who

overlook anything cuz he wants to do

whatever he wants. Um but I would have

to say I I think the the media failed in

this this thing over the weekend. It was

really disappointing to see so many um

people acting like

taking advantage of a tragedy to just

stick their chests out and do these

dramatic videos and act like they were

influencers. I thought I found it

embarrassing and sad. Um I uh I I ran

into some of them and I looked at my

shoes. I didn't know what to I for once

I was like I really would like to tell

them they suck. Um but uh but it was uh

it was disappointing and obviously

continued disappointment with the Trump

administration taking advantage of it,

but I expected them to do this and then

snap right back into shape. Um so I have

very lower standards for Trump

administration people. Um but not for

the media and I just this is not the way

you chase audiences to chase whatever

they were chasing. It was really painful

to watch and I do some people were

really traumatized because it is

terrifying. I suspect to be there. But

again, your job is to report the news

and that's what I would really like it.

So kudos to those who did. Um my win. Um

I just I don't know if you're watching

B. Middler on social media. Um she is so

funny. She is sort of has a whole new

life on social media and it's in it's so

clever. She puts out so much funny stuff

and she just put out a protest song with

the music video featuring her and her

beaches co-star Barbara Hershey. They

apparently go to a lot of these kings

marches or marches together and I just

love the two of them. I love that movie

Beaches by the way. Um, and I just think

she's using her platform in a really

very much on brand with her and I think

it's it dubtales into her incredible

still incredible singing voice and

cleverness and uh I just really love her

and I I love her all over again.

when I was uh I think I was in college

and I went with my buddy Lee to see

beaches as two men do. Go see

>> yes the movie. Anyways, and we're

sitting in line. My friend Lee Lotus is

literally the funniest person in the

world. There's only two people that make

me laugh out loud. One is Lee Lotus, the

other is David Frey. But anyways, we're

sitting in line as he used to do at the

Man brewing like a line around the block

to see, you know, opening night of

beaches with B Midler and Barbara

Hershey. And we knew it was about best

friends and we knew one dies and

everyone coming out was sobbing and Lee

goes, "It must mean that Barbara Hershey

died. No one would sob. Midler died. No

one sobs about the overweight singer

dying."

>> And I thought that was so [ __ ] funny.

I couldn't stop laughing.

>> It's like no one's going to be that sad

about B. Midler.

>> I would. She died in the She played

Janice Joplin. Do you remember what was

that movie?

>> Oh no. Let me be clear. In real life,

there will be there are a few people

more beloved than that Midler. What I'm

saying is in the movie,

>> it's like it's clear that the hot the

hot one, the pretty girl dying is the

real tragedy.

>> But it was how she died and the Oh, the

end. Oh,

>> I'm going to go back. We should watch it

together cuz I would say you are the

wind beneath my wings, but really you're

appreciate that good on bed. Yeah, she

was uh Barry Manalo was her pist, her

backup pist when she when she was in the

in the foray audiences. Always been

>> also I got to be honest, she's the

source of one of my favorite jokes,

>> which is

>> my favorite jokes. My partner

>> uh my partner is Polish and on Friday

nights I dress up like Germany and

invade her.

>> She said that. That was her joke.

>> That was her joke. She said her husband

her husband was German.

>> Yeah. Yeah. She has a lot of dirty

jokes. She used to be a lot dirtier, but

she's still delightful. Anyway, your

wins and fails.

Uh so I got all bummed out when I saw

this uh the shooting and I personally

went on social media and to make myself

feel better I find

I do find some solace or respit in data

and I looked up data about uh gun

violence and uh actually in terms of

homicide

America has never been safer and that is

despite all the recent public and

political violence and the fact that you

get served it on your social media feed

America's homicide rate fell by the fell

by the largest amount ever recorded in

2025.

And preliminary data tracking local

murder rates shows that this could be,

get this, the lowest murder rate since

1900,

the lowest murder rate on record. And

the FBI has to confirm this later in

2026,

but the decline has followed two sharp

declines in 23 and 24, making this a

sustained trend, not a blip. So, while

our blood pressure and our anxiety is

up, if you actually look at the data on

a lot of levels, America has never been

safer or less violent,

>> which has been the trend, which has been

the trend actually. And but if you just

watch Tik Tok or these videos, you would

think it's chaos in the Wild West

everywhere. Also,

>> except in schools, Scott, school

shootings are way up. It's crazy.

>> I think that's fair. I I And mass

shootings are way up.

>> Mass shootings. Yeah.

>> But the actual the actual number of

homicides,

>> yeah,

>> is at appears to be at an all-time low.

>> Yeah. All right.

>> Also, drug overdose deaths are seeing a

sustained decline. In the 12 months

before November 2025, the US saw about

70,000 drug overdose deaths, which is a

16% decline from the year before. And in

2024, overdose deaths fell 27%, the

largest single year decline on record.

It feels as if, you know, we did

recognize or started to move in on the

opiate crisis and we're seeing a really

healthy, wonderful decline in overdose

deaths. Uh, anyways, I just I I always

like to go to the data when I'm freaking

out to see should I be freaking out and

upset and I do find comfort in the fact

that it does look like America is

becoming less or the homicide rate

appears to be at an all-time low. Um,

my loss is more depressing. My loss is

um um an increase in HIV diagnoses in

Zambia um a year after the Trump

administration froze PEPFAR

which is just America at its best. HIV

services in parts of Zambia

>> and they basically it's collapsed the

funding and now new infections are

rising. Zambia had 84% of its HIV

financing coming from PEPFAR at the

start of 2025,

which is one of the largest aid

dependencies of any country globally.

And the cuts put 23,000 health workers

supporting the HIV response out of work.

23,000 people working on HIV.

>> George Bush thing, by the way, for

people.

>> Yeah. PEPAR, it's his legacy, his most

positive legacy.

>> Absolutely. And in clinics where

services were interrupted, new HIV

diagnoses dropped nearly 30 um%. In

other words, they're not diagnosing it.

And not because infections fell, but

because people stopped getting tested.

And for the first time in PEPAR's

history, the program put fewer people on

HIV therapy than the year before. And

without rapid restoration, models

project um HIV prevalence in Zambia

could quadruple with more than one and a

half million lives at risk. uh children

and women hit hardest and globally

sustained funding gaps uh could produce

6 million additional infections and 4

million more AIDS deaths by 2029.

So it's it's really strange. It's and I

wrote about this in my newsletter last

week. If you want to kill millions of

people, do it slow and methodically. And

there's definitely a zone of empathy

where when people are thousands of miles

away, you're somewhat comfortable with

millions of deaths.

>> It's um I believe this is all Musk and

Trump on their

>> Doge and Trump. This is just

>> and also it's not only the wrong thing

to do this this funding these funding

cuts. It's the stupid thing to do

because what people don't realize is how

much we benefit from the soft power and

positive brand of America. They're

obnoxious. They're a bit imperialist,

but at the end of the day, their heart's

in the right place. They know people who

got funding. They know a soup kitchen in

Ukraine. They know someone who survived.

This is why I was so [ __ ] pissed off.

I'm not pissed off. All the all the

bullshits. Oh, I won't call. All the

scrutiny and virtue signaling around

Bill Gates. Quite frankly, the four

million people alive who would have died

from malaria don't give a flying [ __ ]

that Bill Gates [ __ ] Russian

prostitutes. Like in my mind, Bill gets

a lot of hall passes.

>> Anyways, a little bit of a diversion

there.

>> Okay. All right.

>> But we have we have millions of people

dying and it's it reflects so poorly our

budgets reflect our values and the fact

that we decided to cut this budget which

is arguably the best money spent both

from a brand perception and just a

morality viewpoint. Million I mean for

God's sakes.

>> Yep.

>> 4 million people. I know it's there's

going to be millions more. Um, can I

just say I'm we have to get going, but I

I was walking in DC this weekend. It's

so funny upper of this is I was walking

with my kids and Amanda and this woman

was walking behind us and then got in

front of us and then she turned around

and realized who I was and she said,

"Can I just thank you and Scott Galloway

for talking about this issue?" She's

from USAD and she goes, she goes, "I

just want to say you all talking about

it all the time makes the biggest

difference." and I was sort of she's

like I was laid off the things were the

thing the damage that's been done has

been irreparable in many ways and she

just was lovely just was she she got

very emotional and I was like well

you're doing the real work like you know

not us um but anyway I'm glad you

brought that up totally separate like

literally yesterday it happened

>> I heard from I heard from so there was

this lovely young man in my fraternity

named Greg Townsend

>> everybody one of those guys everybody

liked everybody liked and we went to the

same high school. He was a couple years

younger than me. Hadn't heard from him

in 30 years. We do that segment talking

about cutting funding. He went to a he

went to law school and decided he wanted

to devote his life to um hunting down

and prosecuting war criminals for the UN

or some agency out of Switzerland. So

he's spent the last 20 years building

cases against war criminals to try and

create disincentive for people to think

twice when they go out and start

committing war crimes. And he got a

notice that because of government

cutting and in Doge that he's out of a

job. And I'm like to have a guy that

talented who could have been making 2

million bucks a year protecting white

collar crime for Scat and Aarbs decide

that no

>> defending Elon Musk and his lawsuit.

>> Yeah. He said no. I want to create

disincentive such that leaders think

twice before they start killing

civilians. And he's I can't think this

kid was so smart and so talented.

>> We need to restore much of this. Not all

of it, but much of it.

>> And what do we do when we get the gift

of these people's humanity where they

decide to apply their expertise against

saving people we will never meet,

disincentivizing acts of war, acts of

horror, and then we cut the funding.

>> Yep. Yep. All right. Well, that's great.

I think that's a great one. Anyway, we

want to hear from you. Send us your

questions about business, tech, or

whatever's on your mind. Go to

nymag.com/pivot

to submit a question for the show or

call 85551 pivot. Elsewhere in the Karen

Scott universe, this week on On with

Cara Swisser, I spoke to Ested Hearnden,

host of the new Bucks podcast, America

Act, who's a former New York Times, a

wonderful New York Times reporter. We

talked about the uh uh about the show,

what politics will be like after Trump

and the playbook Democrats will be using

in the upcoming midterms and beyond.

Let's listen to a quick clip.

>> Maybe it's become a little more

progressive, but it's certainly become

more um activist. It's certainly become

more um uh less passive for I think the

traditional Democratic playbook. And so

I think those shifts are some of what

we're seeing in Maine and I think what

we're seeing across the country.

>> Okay, that's the show. Thanks for

listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and

subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll

be back on Friday.