We used to be the cop or the protection

when we hear a knock at the door. Now we

are the knock at the door.

>> Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York

Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast

Network. I'm Cara Swisser.

>> I'm Scott Callawa.

>> And where are you Scott?

>> Uh somewhere over the North Atlantic.

Cara, where are you?

>> All right. I am in my studio in DC. But

we we recorded

>> Corey maintain eye contact.

Maintain eye contact.

>> Is Corey Luwendowski with you?

>> No. Wendowski.

>> Yeah. So, I'm fairly certain.

>> Yeah.

>> He's not going to keep his job either.

>> I'm guessing. Well, let me just give

people back it up for a minute. Scott,

we recorded earlier but had to hop back

on. Hence why you're on a plane and and

I'm and we're redoing this. President

Trump has fired Homeland Security

Secretary Christy Nomer, giving her a

fake job. Trump announced the move on

True Social, saying Gnome had served us

well and had has had numerous and

spectacular results. He announced the

Republican Senator Mark Wayne Mullen

would replace Gnome. Gnome is stepping

into a new role. Apparently, she wasn't

quite fired. I don't know what this is.

It's like a firing.

>> Oh, no. She was fired.

>> I get it.

>> She's like special envoy to Hulu

original programming or something.

>> She's special envoy. Let's get it right.

special envoy to The Shield of the

Americas. I I I don't even That's like a

bad Marvel movie. I feel like like the

one that we don't want to watch. But

let's talk about this cuz uh later in

the show you have we we'll be talking

about a lot of things happening right

now for the Republicans. But um talk to

me about this firing a little bit. Well,

supposedly, I mean, you might have more

information than me, but supposedly it

wasn't the conflict of interest of

having an affair with her number two. It

wasn't

uh uh essentially killing American

citizens. It wasn't it wasn't

essentially overseeing what I would

argue are the definition of

concentration camps and that is black

sites outside legal jurisdiction or

protection of your of your um origin

country which is the definition of a

concentration camp. It was supposedly

what was the straw that broke Trump's

back was that she had spent close to or

over $200 million I believe on ads

featuring her which appear to be uh

courtesy of her her number two an

attempt to raise her awareness for a

presidential run that that that was what

angered Trump. What have you heard

Karen? she was advantaging herself and

Trump likes to only advantage himself,

right? And so anybody else who's trying

to do that, there was also the question

these two recent congressional hearings.

To me, I I felt the writing was on the

wall because Republicans in the Senate

particularly were really going after

her. So they knew that they had no

repercussions to do so, right? If they

had gone after her because they were

good people or because they had a

backbone. I think only Tom Tillis has

been doing that because he's leaving.

Um, uh, this is Senator Tillis from

North Carolina. I think she, uh, I think

they had permission to go after her,

whether it was, uh, Kennedy, uh, John

Kennedy or or others that really did

attack her. Um, and the Democrats did an

excellent job, too, bringing up all

these issues you talked about. I just

felt like it was open season on her, so

to speak, someone who enjoys killing

dogs. And, you know, even the reaction

has been interesting. uh Senator Tom

Tillis uh who was very upset about the

disaster relief fuckups I think very

much so and about also about f getting

rid of people uh I mean going after

people who didn't commit any crimes

right just in terms of he kept talking

about a quota system why are you doing

it on a quota system in the in these

hearings he his uh his thing on ex

saying goodbye was Senator Mark Wayne

Mullen is a great guy and a great choice

to lead DHS restore competence and

refocus efforts on quickly distributing

disaster aid. That's the first thing he

noted. Keeping the border secure and

targeting violent illegal immigrants for

deportation. Another big positive. He

likes dogs. Um which of course is

referenced to to uh her her killing uh

her dog. Um people are having a field

day about this of course uh on the

thing. Although one of the good ones

about Mark Wayne Mullen who was a

senator from Oklahoma was uh he can't

even have a border between his name uh

Mark and Wayne Mark Wayne. Um, but no,

they, you know, people, the Republicans

felt emboldened to attack her and

therefore it was very clear that they

got their signals from the White House

would be my guess.

>> I mean, that just goes to what a poor

manager and what a low character person,

spoiler alert, the president is, and

that is when you hire people and you

expect them to be part of a team. If you

know you're going to fire them, which it

sounds like he did because it took about

3 seconds. The moment they announced she

was leaving, they announced her

replacement

to quite frankly trot her out and use

her as an anger pillow and humiliate her

before showing her the door knowing that

you were going to fire as opposed to

saying, "Look, we're making a change.

There's no reason for you to go in front

of Congress or once you resign, you

probably will not be called. Maybe maybe

they still would have called her."

>> That last two days in Congress was bad.

>> But that was okay. We have absolutely no

respect, fidelity, camaraderie for the

people I hire. And if it serves my

political purposes, I will throw them

under the bus and then back up the bus

and run over them again.

>> That's the Trump way, right? That's the

Trump way. And in fact, he doesn't even

give her the I don't think she deserves

any dignity. The dignity of just firing

her like you're fired. I mean, the guy

who's so famous for doing you're fired

cannot say you're fired. you have to

give him this symmetrical envoy to the

shield of the Americas which and of

course she's bragging as if she won

right as if it was a good thing because

like even as she's humiliated and by the

next humiliation by the way is going to

be Pam Bondi right that's obvious he's

going to go all the ladies as you know

of the Trump administration are in big

trouble um and they will be the first to

go they'll get to Cash Patel at some

point or maybe not but like another

incompetent another you know same thing

with Pam Bondi menacious and incompetent

Um, and so he he doesn't the fact that

he hasn't let go so many of these people

already who are just not up to the task

is really says a ton about his

management style.

>> I think they're more strategic than

people want to give me a credit for. And

when I was a consultant, I always used I

would review DAXs and associates going

in to present to a management team. I

would say I would ask a series of

questions. And one of the questions I

would ask what I would say I would ask

who's in the room that's not in the room

and that is what is the context what is

the influences what is the overarching

theme of the vibe in this room or their

objectives before you even show up and

the two people that are always in the

room around any Trump official and any

public activity are one Roy Conn. If you

look at the way these people have put

themselves in front of the Senate and

the Congress, one of the greatest

erosions in the grand equity of the

United States is there has always been a

level of civility and decorum. They

aren't that South Korean Senate where

they break into fisticuffs or they start

yelling at each other. There was always

a certain amount of respect. But this

Roy Con deny, deflect,

uh, obuscate, attack, you're you're a

you're you're ashamed of yourself.

You're a failed lawyer. Go on. Don't

answer the question. That has in and

among itself eroded the value and the

prestige of the Senate. Roy Con is

always in the room when these guys

testify. The person that's always in the

room is Epstein. And I believe there are

three people armed with LLM saying

monitoring the temperature of Epstein in

the news. And when it gets above a

certain temperature, they think of

distractions. And nothing is better than

one of these hearings or declaring war

or saying you're going to raise tariffs

of 50%. But I literally think they have

they are monitoring the the number of

times Epstein and Trump are linked

together when it gets above a certain

temperature in the press. they they they

throw someone under the bus, announce a

tariff, start start firing missiles,

whatever it might be, you know,

capturing or uh absconding with with um

leaders of Central American countries,

but Roy Conn and Jeffrey Epstein are

>> very smart. That's a And the Epstein

stuff is not going away. Let me just say

it is not. It is, as I said a half a

year ago, it is it is here to stay. like

it's the thing. To to Christy Gnome's

credit, she did not go to the island on

her plane. Um, so that's a good

that's a good part of her. But we wish

you well, Christy. You're completely

incompetent and deserve to be fired. Um,

but the fact that he kept you there that

long says more about Donald Trump than

it does about Christine Gnome. She she's

is what she is, I guess.

>> I heard she's going to be volunteering

to get an all kill dog shelter.

>> Oh, very funny. I mean, that's going to

that's going to go to the end of her

days and deservedly so. Anyway, uh now

back to the rest of the show. Guess

where I went last night?

>> Where'd you go?

>> Party for uh Andrew Ross Sorcin at the

French Embassy, our favorite Canadian.

>> I was not invited.

>> I know. It was by Puck and he got the

First Amendment award. He gave a He gave

such a good speech. He's like,

>> he's a very talented guy.

>> He's such a nice boy. I don't know what

else to say. He's a nice boy. He gave an

excellent speech about the First

Amendment. And he he said everyone

thinks he's Canadian because we say

that's the case. He now is asked about

Canadian his wife too. His wife they're

very

>> but let's just say he's Canadian even

though he's not.

>> Can I tell you the first time I heard

his name?

>> What? Yeah.

>> My first board meeting at the New York

Times. Uh they were going around and we

have this su succession strategy and

that's when I knew the CEO wasn't very

good was it was clear she was like

shooting everybody that got near the CEO

spot. and they went through and we're

trying to everyone was asking about

compensation and equity awards and they

mentioned this one young reporter and

everyone's like well offer them 8% you

know and they mentioned they go oh and

we have this young reporter who's really

talented Andrew soccer and everyone went

pay him whatever he wants

>> oh

>> everyone literally said you know we're

trying to manage a company that we need

fiscal discipline it wasn't doing well

yeah

>> and his name comes up and everyone looks

around pay him whatever he wants we

can't lose that guy

>> yeah Well, he looks great. He gave He

got the First Amendment award. I I And

he gave a beautiful speech. Anyway,

congratulations, Andrew.

>> Was it a fun party?

>> It was a good party.

>> Daddy's going to a big party.

>> What are you doing?

>> Well, you were invited, but you wouldn't

be my plus.

>> Oh, the Vanity Fair. I actually um the

guy who's the editor's boyfriend, Sean

McCree, was there and he sat where I was

going. I said, "Well, Scott Galloway is

going to be there, so he'll shot the

place." Buckale.

>> Um uh you want to see someone at the bar

having a good time? Yeah. I've been so

nervous about what to wear. Spent most

of the weekend trying to style myself.

>> Don't wear jeans at a tux like Ted

Sarandos. I didn't think that worked.

>> I'm rolling up to the bar and I'm

getting up and I'm just going to

observe. I don't need to speak to

anybody.

>> No, you need to talk to people.

>> You know what I do? I talk to Ted

Sarandos about strategy and who he

should acquire. That's that's the limit

of my social capabilities.

>> Do you not do the executives there? Can

I tell you two quick stories of vanity?

>> I want to meet the gay hockey guys. Will

they be there?

>> Oh, they pro. Oh, I'm sure they'll be

there. Oh, I bet they are. We are Are

you allowed to take selfies with that

thing or do they kick you out?

>> Well, I don't know. They used to. Yeah.

I don't No, I don't think so. I think

you're not allowed to. Let me tell you

two quick stories. I went to one when it

was up at this um the sand not it was in

that hotel Sunset Towers. It used to be

the sunset

>> and it was small, much more intimate and

one year all the tech people got went

like all they invited all the tech

people. And so I was like I don't

want to see these people. I want to see

celebrities. And they they kept they're

really shy at the time. And they kept

bothering me like to talk to me. And I

was like, I don't want to talk to you,

Sergey Bren. I don't want to talk to you

all you people. And Sergey Brand

wouldn't wasn't able to talk to anybody,

but except they were wearing Google

Glass. He was wearing a Google Glass.

And he goes, "No one's talking to me."

And I'm like, "Take off your

Google Glass and like say you're a

billionaire. That's how it's going to

work here." The second time uh the

second time I went there I ran into um I

was talking as you did to Bob Iger or I

forget Comcast head may have been Ted

Sarandos and the guy who plays uh Harry

Potter came up to me and said excuse me

you know and he said I've noticed all

the really important uh studio people

are sort of

>> so like you to have a story that makes

you sound powerful.

>> No I did. No let me finish the story.

Shut up. So he said, "I've noticed

you're talking. They're all talking to

you and they're very interested in

talking to you. Who are you?" This guy

is really smart. I love him. Daniel

Gradcliffe. And I said, "I'm their drug

dealer."

>> That's what I did.

>> But I'm not.

>> Anyway, I have a lot of good stories

from there. You'll have a good time.

Talk to people. Talk say hello to Robert

Dairo if he's there cuz he

>> Yeah, that's not my style. I wasn't

going to go. I said no. And then someone

we both know said, "You have to go

once." So I'm going go on. But I'm

literally It's been very stressful

picking out my outfit.

>> It's early. Remember, it's early. You go

like like 10.

>> I'm literally leaving you at South by

Southwest. I'm changing on the plane and

I'm going straight to the event.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It goes on forever though.

Stay till late. Stay till late.

>> I only think I was invited cuz they

thought I was going to be your plus one.

And then you said no when I said yes.

>> No, I don't think so. Anyway, have a

great time. You'll have a great time.

We've got a lot to get to today because

we also this weekend will be in

Minneapolis. We'll talk about that in a

second. on Sunday. We're very excited to

do resist and unsubscribe there. Um, but

let's get to the news first. Let's dig

in. First, uh, Defense Secretary Pete

Hegsth says the war in Iran is far from

over, warning that we've only just

begun. It was such a ridiculous press

conference. As a record, the House is

set to vote on a measure to block

President Trump from taking further

action in Iran without congressional

support. And the Senate already failed

to do that. By the way, European leaders

are pushing back on Trump, notably

Spain's prime minister, who said, "We

can't play Russian roulette with the

destiny of millions of people." He's

absolutely correct. The White House said

they were cooperating and then they said

they weren't. Um Trump is also facing

push back from parts of his MAGA base

over the war. Even as he insists MAGA

loves what I'm doing, they do not love

what he's doing. And looking at the

economic impact, US gas prices saw their

biggest single day spike in three years

this week, and oil prices continue to

rise. Um, this drag on the in the US

economy is going to be very tough for

Trump and and the Republicans as we

approach the midterms. I've been uh I've

been talking to a lot of Republicans. In

fact, had a meeting with a very

prominent one yesterday. Um, and they

are they I can tell you they do not like

this or they they think Pete Hath is is

an imbecile. That's for sure. And they

don't think this was well thought out at

all. I think and that's that's the

Republicans and these are people who

maybe publicly are being supportive by

at least voting against his the

restrictions on Trump. What what are

your thoughts about the economy? What's

happening here?

>> It really hasn't taken much of a hit

yet. It's the existential threat that it

could digress into something much bigger

and more dangerous. The oil is up about

11 11 bucks a barrel or 10% uh or 12%

which translates to about 25 cents a

gallon typically. Typically wars the

markets go down and then they check back

and actually the year after a war ends

markets typically outperform. So I don't

think you can say that the markets have

responded or that we know this is going

to be inflationary.

>> Yeah.

>> What what I think you can say is that I

believe if he had gone to Congress and

made an argument for why we're doing

this, why now, and what are our

objectives, he might have gotten the

authorization for the use of military

force. They they never get declarations

of war any longer. They get AUMFs.

But unfortunately, what they've done is

because they had to position this as a

defensive action, they said, "Oh, one of

our allies was about to be imminently

attacked. We were going to have to

respond." So, it's like, "Okay, you just

gave into this very dangerous trope

>> that Israel is controlling the US."

>> Yes.

>> That was just And you have had such

inconsistent messaging.

>> Absolutely.

>> This is regime change. No, we don't want

regime change. This is going to be 5

days. We'll be there as long as it

takes. Yeah. This is a

>> Now the Kurds. We're bringing the Kurds

in.

>> Yeah. Now we're going to operate the

Kurds. Well, okay. What does that mean

when the Kurds get fired up in other

regions? This is a special combat

operation. No, it's a war. They have so

much inconsistent messaging. And the

fact that they didn't reflect the

confidence to at a minimum think about

the American citizens in the Gulf and a

plan for getting them out of there.

>> That seems like makes Biden's

Afghanistan withdrawal seem like

>> in addition just just tactically

>> Mhm.

>> tactically

bombing Thran the the majority the real

danger here is that the Iranian people

are not on our side turn against us. Uh

because what the Iranian biggest

miscalculation was firing they basically

John Stewart summarized it as two guys

start beating up on you. So what do you

do? You try and start a fight with

everyone in the bar. That was a real

strategic mistake on the part of Iran.

But our potentially biggest mistake is

when we're bombing Thran, you're

essentially flattening neighborhoods of

people who are probably more pro- West

>> and empathetic. It's the the kind of

religious the theocracies in the rural

area. So,

>> no one really trusts. I think the why

why now and objectives had legitimacy

here and he potentially could have got

77% of Republicans are or 72% of

Republicans are in favor of this. Only

17% of progressives.

>> It's low. 72% of Republicans is low.

It's usually 95%.

>> The the broader number is 4159. So,

let's be clear. The majority of

Americans do not support this. I still

think had he had a well thoughtout plan,

he could have gotten potentially

>> I don't agree with you. I think uh this

was interesting listening to this

Republican very high-profile politician,

he was like they have 15 days to resolve

this like because if it drags on more

and they don't seem to have a point, uh

it's a problem. And one of the things he

was pointing to was unaffiliated um

voters. He's like the yeah the

independence he says across there there

are red lights everywhere for

Republicans around independence and

independents hate this and he said if he

doesn't have a very tight sharp plan in

place I mean he was blumx that they

didn't have one Mike that they didn't

and they they weren't communicating them

and I'll tell you one when he had gone

to that briefing about whether there

really was an imminent threat and one of

the reporters asked him is was there an

im imminent threat and he said well

there's been one for 47 years. That's

what it sounded like. Like he was like

didn't even buy their nonsensical

reasons.

>> But you asked you asked about the

economy.

So the the decision to to go to war in

my opinion is not what is going to be

quote unquote the downfall or really

hurt the Trump administration. It's the

following. It appears that these types

of actions, unilateral actions, where

you don't make any attempt to get

European or Gulf nations involved to

increase legitimacy, much less the

resources, right? These nations could

have helped shoot down these nations

have their own military, their own

intelligence. They could have served a

real valuable role in help protecting

those Gulf States, achieving the

objectives. The fact that we now have a

$ 1.1 trillion military that appears to

be run by incompetence. In addition,

America was the operating system. We

everyone settles their trades and

dollars. They operate on the IP

agreements of America. We largely

enforce the flows of energy with our

navy, our military bases, make sure that

rogue nations don't go too rogue. We're

sort of been the operating system. Now,

this decision amongst others,

specifically going about it unilaterally

with no attempt to even consult Congress

or our allies, all of a sudden shows the

nation that used to enforce that no

nation go too rogue, they're now that

rogue nation.

>> Yeah.

>> But I think the real existential threat

to the economy and to American

prosperity is the following. It's yet

another data point that shows we used to

be the cop or the protection when we

hear a knock at the door. Now we are the

knock at the door.

>> Yeah, I get it. It's really What's

interesting is that um how many people

are are secretly not for it, right? It's

it's a really you do see the strength of

of people pushing back now on Trump,

which is really interesting. Much more

so all over the place, not listening to

him, not going along with him. Now,

typically politicians go along with uh

anybody when there's a war happening.

They try not to be too difficult. But

one of the things is this further

abrogation of power by the Congress, you

know, in terms of where they where they

and they're sitting around act talking

and debating about whether they have

power or not. If I don't know if you've

followed any of that, it's kind of

ridiculous. And they do. And one of the

it just I think it just creates more cha

chaos around Trump. Like he's chaotic

>> at the same time as all his his his work

the people that work for him are

incompetent that seem more and more and

especially Pete Seth. He seemed

completely out of sorts for this. And

one of the the of course there's

conspiracy theories everywhere, but one

of them is that if Iran hits the United

States in some way, a city of a United

States city, which is entirely possible,

that's what he'll use as the excuse to

call martial law. Just just so you know,

there's a lot of things happening all

all at the same time. And I don't I just

don't it's not good because it's chaos

and Trump. Chaos and Trump. And so I

think Trump is the same thing as our

domestic problems here with him. It's

chaos. It's chaos and it's not thought

out and it's incompetence. Um, and you

know, there obviously the Republicans

are worried about the midterms and they

should. Um, the first primaries of the

2026 midterms. Here are some of the

highlights from Tuesday's elections. In

Texas, incumbent Senator John Cornin and

Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton are

headed to a late May GOP Senate runoff.

The GOP clash is already the most

expensive Senate primary in history with

Republicans alone racking up nearly

hund00 million in ad buys. Um Trump is

supposedly going to pick one and tell

the other to get out, but Ken Pax has

already said he's not getting out even

if he doesn't get picked. Um and state

representative James Terico beat

Representative Jasmine Crockett in

Texas's Democratic Senate primary. Let's

listen to a clip from Telerico's victory

speech. To the billionaires who have

taken over our state and taken over our

country, your unchecked power is coming

to an end.

>> Your days dividing working people are

numbered.

>> Oh, he sounds like a guy we should hang

out with. Um, good, good, good. It was a

good speech. And actually, I have to say

Crockett handled the the defeat well.

They seemed to come together. Everyone's

like, "We're all going to come

together." Um and uh they both ran

really tough campaigns and and then they

they I have to say everybody acted the

Democrats look like they're not uh in

disarray as they say. Uh Texas Supreme

Court stepped in to block a lastminute

voting extension in two counties after

GOP primary polling mixups backing an

appeal from Ken Paxton. It seemed like

he was just trying to create chaos. In

North Carolina, former Governor Roy

Cooper won the Democratic Senate primary

quite easily and will face Republican

Michael Wattley uh for uh Senator Tom

Tillis' seat in the race that could help

decide Senate control. Um so interesting

stuff going on there. A lot of people

lost their jobs. Um Dan Krenshaw lost

his job. Uh he was targeted by a

billionaire, speaking of billionaires,

who spent enormous amounts of money to

get rid of him. in North Carolina, the

head of the state senate who'd been in

power for a long long time uh is in a

very tight race. A lot of people losing

losing their jobs like all over the

place. So, uh what do you think uh this

means for Democrats this year and for

Republicans?

>> It's very exciting for Democrats. the I

mean the Torico race. First off, if

Terico wins the seat against the

Republican nominee, I think he's likely

or very likely to be the vice

presidential pick in 2028 because if he

wins this and shows an ability to win in

Texas, if as VP they think he could

deliver Texas, it's game over for

whoever's for the Democrats win. If you

could flip Texas in a presidential race,

do

>> you think he should stay there for a

little bit? get amass power.

>> Well, how long did how long was Obama

senator?

>> Yeah, that's right.

>> I mean, they do. The VP is supposed to

be the person who could take over. It's

not. The VP is brought on to hopefully

win a state

>> that is a swing state for the most part.

Anyways, so it's exciting moment for

Terico, but what's really exciting for

Democrats is that through the odds, the

majority or the number of Democrats

turning out in a primary was in the high

hundreds of thousands, 7 or 800,000.

>> 2.1 million Democrats turned out. And

the very this the other very exciting

thing is that

>> I think it was 1.8 million Republicans

turned out. So whoever whoever whatever

party is able to turn out more people

for the primary gives you real insight

into what's going to happen in the

general

>> especially among Hispanics he really

pulled in that he shifted them

>> and if we have the first Texas statewide

Democrat elected in 20 or 30 years

>> yes was the last one.

>> What's that?

>> Lloyd Benson was the last one I think.

>> I thought it was an Richards.

>> No she was governor.

>> She was governor. There you go. So, this

is an exciting this is just a super

exciting moment uh for Democrats. So, I

I don't you know I don't I don't think

you can overstate it. All the races look

to be have been closer. The surprising

stuff was some of the more some of the

Republicans who lost their lost their

seats. That was very interesting.

>> Um I was thinking of sending some money

to Paxton because I'd love to see him

against Terara because I think that

means Terica wins.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, anyways,

>> he's refusing to get out. I mean, who

knows if he I mean, Trump's going to try

to get him out. Um, supposedly they

think Cornin's the better person to run

against.

>> Well, he's more electable. He's

absolutely

>> within the MAG. It doesn't excite the

MAGA groups, right? They like Paxton.

He's backed by all the MAGA groups. All

of them.

>> Yeah. It's This is Look, I I looked at

the results and all I thought was and I

tried to screen out my biases. I thought

there's just no getting around this.

Mhm.

>> This feels really good.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. It was

really interesting. Um and I thought

that uh Telerico's continued focus on

the rich was really interesting. It's

really it's it's got a similar vibe of

obviously you would point to AOC and

>> Bernie. Yeah.

>> Bernie and uh of course Mandani. Like

he's like the Texas Mandani kind of

thing. Um and so you know I kept saying

you know if he wins and of course Trump

attacked him quite a bit he'll be at the

White House hanging out with Trump like

Trump will be hugging him like and stuff

like that because he loves a winner that

kind of thing. He's just the kind of

person that will do pull a similar thing

that Montani did.

>> Well Mandami was to his credit Mandami

was smart. He showed that he was a

pragmatist and he was willing to

>> um he he wanted to be effective versus

right and not politically grandstand and

he got that woman released. He's he's

proven to be quite pragmatic.

>> He's kept Jessica Tish as police

commissioner who is very effective. I

just have a feeling Telerico is going to

have the same experience with Trump that

Trump will will bear hug him.

>> The class warfare if you will around the

billionaire class. So the genie

coefficient which is a measure of

inequality

>> if it's zero to one. If you're at zero

it means everyone has exactly the same

amount. If you're at one it means one

person has everything.

>> Mhm.

>> I think but revolution always takes on a

different complexion. I think what we

have now is a series of smaller

revolutions. But when you start

identifying a class of people based on

their wealth, I mean that that kind of

means that the revolution is coming and

Trump and Epstein and the people Epsteed

himself with it has created I I mean we

are I mean the revolution here might be

a series of of tax increase. I I don't

know how it's going to

>> let me let me just read something. This

was in a story I read. The richest

Americans have amassed enormous wealth

in recent years, while most Americans

have seen theirs stagnate. The net worth

of the top 0.1% doubled from 2020 to a

collective sum of 24.9 trillion in the

third quarter of 2025 and now accounts

for 14.4% of the total household wealth

according to the Federal Reserve. That's

an astonishing figure. That's just

astonishing.

>> Well, yeah. The what William Gibson said

about technology is true about

prosperity in that it's prosperity is

here in America. It's just not evenly

distributed.

>> Yeah. But it's

>> and now and it's made us more fragile as

an economy to think of the morality of

it. 10% the top 10% of US households are

now responsible for 50% of the spend.

>> Right. I think tech billionaires have

done so much damage to themselves in

this the way they behaved and they do

act like they have unch and I think Elon

Musk will go down in history as someone

who really began the push back against

this because the way the imperious and

ridiculous way he conducted himself and

all of them all of them do all of them

do

>> well becoming the wealthiest man in the

world such that you can cut off aid to

HIV positive mothers that's not a good

luck

>> yeah it's not a good look any

congratulations to uh Telerico and

others who won yesterday

>> and to Jasmine Crockett by the way I

thought she ran a great campaign She

went right up and then attacked Christy

Gnome beautifully. Like did a beautiful

take down of Christy Gnome which is

she's very good at her job. Um I we

haven't seen the last of her.

>> Hope not. She really is. Okay, Scott,

let's go on a quick break. When we come

back, what Sam Alman is saying about

OpenAI's deal with the Pentagon and what

Daario Amodi is saying about Sam Alman.

It's pretty eviscerating.

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anything.

Scott, we're back. Open A has updated

its deal with the Pentagon, adding

language that says uh its AI system

quote shall shall not be intentionally

used for domestic surveillance. CEO Sam

Alman wrote it's critical to protect the

civil liberties of Americans. But at an

all hands meeting this week, Sam told

staff that open had no control over how

the defense department uses its

software. And while uh defending the

deal in the Pentagon, he acknowledged

that rolling it out so quickly made the

company look quote opportunistic and

sloppy. That's the the app producing

sloppy is the poor name of of open AI.

Sam said it's been painful to try to do

the quote right thing and then get quote

personally crushed for it. Oh my god,

Sam, this is so he needs to stop

talking. I've got to say um it's a

question of whether he's actually

tarnished the brand too much in his

actions. Um Chachi PT uninstalls surged

295% the day after the Pentagon deal was

announced. Claw downloads continue to

spike. Meanwhile, um, uh, Anthropic CEO

Dario Modi told his staff that the Trump

administration didn't like Anthropic

because it didn't, uh, it it hadn't

given, um, dictator style praise to

Trump, while Sam has. He really laid

into they they there's, if you think

Elon Musk and Sam Alman have a problem,

Dario Modi and Sam Alman have a problem.

So, what do you think about this? This

is like a a real od

something's going on over there at

OpenAI that they really need to fix.

>> I think of it on the other side and you

know as as people know we're going to be

resist and unsubscribe in Minneapolis on

Sunday. And the way we're evolving it is

we're now going to um try and encourage

people to sign up for who we think are

good actors. And the most obvious

contrast here is the contrast between

open AI and anthropic. And I've been

saying for six months that I thought one

of the biggest commercial opportunities

was for a CEO basically to say no and

say these are we're we're done enabling

these type of this type of depraved

behavior. We're not going to engage in

the violation of Americans Americans

rights. And the hero we didn't think we

needed is Dario Amod. He's basically

stepped up and he said no. And just to

the point of it being a huge commercial

opportunity,

uh he uh Anthropic immediately surged

number one in the app store and its

annual recurring revenue has gone from

14 billion to 19 billion in just one

week. So this is going to be this is a

big moment because what Daario and

Anthropic have done even if they don't

realize it is they're all of a sudden

gonna give a bunch of CEOs across

America

>> the confidence to start saying no. Yeah,

>> because I thought it was going to be

Nike, but we said this six months ago.

It's a huge commercial opportunity.

>> Got to be a tech person.

>> Tech has been so in bed with Trump. It's

got to be a tech person doing it. That's

>> fair point. But the the point is the

opportunity here

>> was for someone to just stand up and say

enough already. I'm I'm not going to I'm

done. And

>> I'll tell you, a lot of Republican

senators really have not liked the way

Hegath has handled. I've been talking to

a lot of them quietly. They have been

saying this

>> it's anti- capitalist.

>> Yes. It's very they're very not

disposed. They're like when did we

become communists essentially and and

one of the things that'll be

interesting. I mean sort of anthropic is

a little like um what Tom Tillis has

been doing. He's left but he has

enormous leverage over the Trump

administration now because he can say

things and so in he says this sucks.

Pete he or Steven Miller sucks, right?

he does say it outright and then others

say well I'm not really liking some of

the things Zen Miller it gives them the

courage to say slightly less critical

things and I think that's a great way to

be and Dario is playing that role I get

it but he's playing the role of a heat

shield in a lot of ways

>> if you're under you get to make weapons

for the government it's legal if you're

>> if you're um

palunteer you get to sell data to the

government as long as it's legal and for

whatever purposes they might use it for.

And if you're anthropic, you get to work

with who you want. You can't do it based

on you can't discriminate or not work

with people based on their sexual

orientation or their ethnicity, but they

can absolutely. We get to decide who we

take ads from.

>> We we we say no all the time to

advertisers and say no, we're not

comfortable with it. Uh the what the the

big thing here is that in one week,

Claude went from number 42 to number one

in the free app store.

So, this is I mean this is a big moment.

This is a turning point because I just

trust me on this. In the next 30 days,

all of a sudden, we're going to see

these these CEOs cosplaying Nelson

Mandela and acting all righteous.

>> I don't know. I don't know about that.

One of the things that was interesting,

there was a poll out in Emerson poll. I

can't remember. No, that wasn't Emerson.

It was a it was a more normal poll um

that said that people want CEOs to

remain neutral but they also want them

to be genuine. So they kind of like this

you know even though they say they don't

want companies to weigh in they kind of

do which is interesting that people

answer differently. I do think people do

vote like with resistance unsubscribe if

you don't like how chat g I so many

people have told me they have dumped

chat GPT more than any of the other ones

and Amazon would be the second one when

they come up to me to ask me about your

efforts with resistant unsubscribe. It's

always Amazon and and Open AI that they

focus in on. That's what I've noticed.

>> But we haven't had an option to the

upside. We haven't had a carrot just to

stick.

>> Great idea. And this has given everyone

the ability to say all right my lack of

spending is a signal but my spending can

also be a signal

>> right

>> and I think there's a big opportunity

here and I'm personally going to urge

people to sign up for and patronize

anthropic

>> and to unsubscribe and not use open AI

and send a very strong signal that

people notice and when certain companies

stand up at potentially you know

potentially pretty severe risk of

retribution

There's all kinds of second order

effects of Palanteer uses Claude. A lot

of people use Claude%. It's a real risk.

It might cost them in the short run.

>> Well, there's a there's a lot over the

medium and the long term. I believe this

is one of the biggest commercial

opportunities presented to companies

right now.

>> Yeah, we'll see where it goes. Um the

issue, let me just make a warning for

anthropic Dario who is typical te tech

person, arrogant. It can be arrogant and

um imperious kind of thing. He loves to

write, which I I appreciate. I like a I

like a CEO that does really is a good

writer actually. Um he he's got to be

careful not to appear too righteous,

right? Too self-righteous. I think

that's where

>> I think he should go dark and just let

his action speak for his words.

>> Yeah, exactly. I think there is that,

you know, he's definitely getting

attacked by the idiot Emil Michael and

David Saxs, the other Um

>> well, again, government government

officials deciding that

>> we're now, like you said, central

planning. Yeah,

>> it's another data point you asked about

the economy. Every time we diminish the

rule of law and that everyone gets to is

is is enable everyone is entitled to and

subject to the same laws. Every time we

say okay the the law is now a tool for

political retribution based on who's in

who's in power. We lose we our price

earnings multiple on the S&P goes down.

>> Right. He's more powerful. Dary Mod is

more powerful now than he was because

he's the only one. Right. And the same

thing with the Tom Tillis, he has more

leverage now in his 300 days left cuz it

gives the gives people permission to be

to push back in a maybe not he gets to

be the louder one both of them. And it

it'll be interesting. It'll be all over

the place. Um speaking of not pushing

back, FCC chair Brendan Carr, who I love

to call a because he is, says he

expects the Warner Brothers Paramount

merger deal to get through approval

pretty quickly. Of course, you lap dog.

Let's listen to what he said when asked

about whether he would have concerns

about the Netflix deal.

>> Yeah, there was a lot of concerns in DC

and you can see it already. Just the

scope and scale on the streaming service

in particular, they would had a very

difficult path forward from regulatory

perspective. This deal uh is a lot

cleaner, does not raise at all the same

types of concerns. I think there's some

real consumer benefits that could emerge

from it.

>> He's right about it was obviously

they're smaller. That's that's right,

Brandon. But Brandon has nothing to do

with this deal and he always mouths off

on everything. Um, meanwhile, Fitch

Ratings, one of the Wall Street's big

credit rating agencies, has cut

Paramount's credit ratings to junk

status. No surprise. Enormous debt, I

think, from 75 to hundred billion

dollars in debt. It's a big It's a big

chunk of money. They say they're going

to delever quickly, but it's always

hard, as Bill Cohen noted. Um, and David

Zazoff, also not looking so good.

President and CEO of Warers. He's

looking good to shareholders. Filed to

sell over $114 million worth of stock in

the company. he's getting pillaried by

because it's very clear that um that uh

Paramount will have to cut. They say six

billion it's much higher. Um you know

CAR does not play a role here just just

for people to understand a real role. Um

but it will get through it probably will

you know they've been working Europe,

they've been working the government. Um

it's just a question of how they get

through and and what damage they have

done by doing this very non-economic

deal. Um, any more thoughts on that?

>> When the book on the worst acquisitions

in history

>> is written, it should just be called

Warner Brothers.

>> It's true.

>> I mean, if you if you r if you ran into

>> time Warner executives in 2005, Steve K

is super smart. He realized that AOL had

nowhere near the value it was trading

at. So he said, "This is a time to trade

it in for boring revenues that come from

records and books and parks and movies."

>> And if you find a Time Warner executive

two or three years later, literally

their retirements were ruined because of

what was the worst acquisition

uh in history. And that's Time Warner's

merger with AOL. And AOL within like 36

months was worth 10% of what Time Warner

had to pay for it and give up. And then

AT&T bought Time Warner and then barely

and then had to take a had to take a

haircut.

>> And then Time Warner merged with

Discovery.

>> Yeah.

>> And basically it turned into just a

giant

>> uh public benefit organization. It's

like basically the merger between

Discovery and Warner Brothers is if

David Zazov had been honest, he would

have stood up and said, "Look, this can

make me almost a billionaire regardless

of whether I destroy or make shareholder

value."

>> He certainly didn't improve it. He

didn't improve it.

>> It did not. It's underperformed the S&P

by any stretch of the imagination. He's

a brilliant investment banker and he's

going to walk away with $700 million,

whatever. It's legal.

>> Good for him shareholders. What I don't

get is if I was Netflix, I would be I'd

be much meaner or more mavelian and I'd

be trying to fire up as many Democratic

lawmakers as possible.

>> I think they are I think probably they

are they're saying a lot of p you know

uh Jerry Cardelli who's one of the

investors tried to clap back at Netflix

all the all the I've talked to some

Paramount executives and they're all

>> the unions I don't get I can't get over

like Netflix has got sour grapes. I'm

like they're accurate sour grapes like

sorry I think it's very effective by

slapping them you know making them a

villain but yeah I agree the union's

>> it's going to be 8x and also uh Edgar

Bronman Sher Redstone and now David

Ellison there's a general trend

>> throughout history where dad makes a

ton of money through grit and

creativity and then dad Jr. loses it.

Yeah,

>> Junior.

>> But basically the only ones who were

>> Murdoch Rupert Murdoch took his dad, but

that was like a small

>> Oh, no. He he I mean he was a rich kid,

but he turned his father's

>> Yeah.

>> into an empire.

>> Empire. Yeah.

>> And and and

anyways, this

>> anyone involved in media now is

basically a billionaire's kid looking to

go to the Oscars and make the family 80%

less wealthy.

>> Yeah, it's true.

>> And that's what Brmpman did. That's what

Sherry Redstone did. She

>> definitely did.

>> And that's that's what David Ellison is

about to do.

>> Well, he has a lot of money, so he has a

lot to lose. He really really really

likes making movies. Scott,

>> this company this company is going to be

they're going to try to go to AI to cut

re to cut I think and I think you're

going to see a lot of AI slop. I think

the creative community is going to turn

on them.

>> Yeah.

>> And I think this is going to be very I

would not want to own those bonds right

now unless they're seniors secured in

the stack.

>> Yeah. Uh, but I think this is going to

be very

>> and and of course they're going to get a

lot of attention with the news thing

even though it's a smaller part of the

empire. Um, you know, they're going to

>> I wouldn't be surprised if they sell it.

I I don't I I don't I've never for sure

they're merging CBS and CNN that they

have to. They It's economically

untenable not to do so. I would hope

they would put Mark Thompson in charge

of the whole thing. Um, I think he's a

really good u person and very wellliked.

I can tell you it's hair on fire over at

CNN in terms of being I get I get like

like covered with CNN. What's happening

Carol? What's happening Karen? I have

some knowledge I will say. Uh but

they're definitely uh merging um merging

the two of them. There's no other choice

for them to do.

>> I think they should have CNN anchors on

Survivor, the CNN show. Dana Bash, oh my

god, she would so I mean

>> win Caitlyn Collins would kill them all.

Don't you think?

>> Oh no. I think Dana B I think Dana Bash

is the kind of person that would smother

you in your sleep if she needed to.

>> Really? I feel like Kayn Collins. Did

you see her like kicking kick in the

>> I think there's a very secretary's ass.

>> I think there's a very dark interesting

side to Dana.

>> Okay. All right. But we know we don't.

>> And I'm here for it. Dana, by the way,

no. Jake probably will get gotten.

Anderson of course is so sweet. Um I'm

trying to think if there's an outside

person. Bruno. I don't know. There's a

lot of people there. There's a lot of

people. I'm I'm going to vote Gayen

Collins. You can invite Dana Bash. But

we definitely think uh Anderson and Jake

will be will be off will be will be

>> I think Far just opens a bar on the

island and says, "I'm done.

>> I'm done.

>> I'm sick of telling people what's going

to happen."

>> Jack rank survivability on an island of

CNN anchors. Oh, that's so funny.

>> Yeah. Who wins in Survivor? CNN

Survivor. They're literally going to

have to do creative.

>> So cool.

>> Survivor. The CNN edition. Uh, Scott,

what do you do with Scott Jennings? What

do you Where do you put him?

>> Oh, he's killed by his own troops.

>> He's like he's they I mean, yeah. No,

he's the guy he's the guy they bury they

bury up to his neck in sand and let's

let the tide come in slowly.

They're like, "Is there a fire ant? Is

there a fire ant hill on the island? We

have an idea for Scott." Yes,

>> we have Michael Smirkcon leading

Campfire songs at the end of night to

make everyone feel good.

>> He won't have a bar.

>> We have AC 360, that guy who who

substitutes for Anderson. He just has to

walk around with his shirt off. He's

hot. Sean,

>> he just has to walk around with his

shirt off. I've got it all planned. If

Ellison's call me, I take back

everything I've said. I have a way to

pay off your debt.

Survivor, the CNN edition.

>> I'm telling you, Kaitlyn Collins will

take them all down. All right, Scott,

let's go on a quick break. When we come

back, the return of the Burger Wars.

This is right near your wheelhouse.

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Scott, we're back with more news. Burger

King and McDonald's have some social

media beef. I can't believe I just read

that. McDonald's posted a video of its

CEO eating the company's Big Arch uh

burger last month. And while he says he

was taking a big bite, the bite was

small, he also called it the product. Uh

the video went viral because of the

discrepancy. And then on the day of the

release of the Big Arch, Burger King

posted a video of its president eating a

Whopper burger in a more enthusiastic

fashion than the rest of them. There's a

Wendy's one. I think there's a Taco

Bell. I don't know. There's so many of

them now. Um and and while it was What

did you think very briefly? What did you

think of this? It's kind of fascinating.

It really took off the burger eating

situation. Funny, stupid.

>> Well, what no one wanted to talk about

was

>> Mhm.

>> There was a CO McDonald's who I think

died of colorctal cancer in his late

40s. Um

>> Oh, well,

>> like I don't Yeah, that that's a real

pickme up story.

>> Thanks, Scott.

Um, I don't know why I brought that up.

I don't I What do you I could not be

less interested in the story other than

to say that

>> other than to say that I want

I want to buy

>> I I've been as as I'm sure you are. I've

been talking to all these presidents,

presidential candidates who call me for

ideas, which is their way of saying,

"Send me money."

>> I'm like, "Not buy a billion doses of of

GOP one uh drug."

>> Yeah. Actually, these businesses are

under siege. You're absolutely right.

>> Distributed to rural communities. Uh if

you want to if you want to solve the

deficit, all roads lead to health care.

If we want to reduce health care costs,

all roads, in my opinion,

>> lead to GLP1. And that the best

investment we could make. I I think I

think fast food, by the way, I I got to

be honest. I look forward The only thing

I'm the only thing I like about travel

is if I'm at an airport, I grant myself

the luxury of eating McDonald's. I have

a general rule. I don't eat fast food or

go to strip bars in cities I live in

because that could just go bad places.

>> So, but when I'm at the airport, the

McDonald's at Newark is the best

McDonald's in the world.

>> You like In-N-Out, too. And Shake Shack.

>> Oh, that's not even fast food. That's

That's the best meal in the world.

>> It is. You're right. That's literally

the best.

>> Well, then let me get on this. We're on

food chains. RFK Junior question. What's

in Dunkin Donuts products in

Massachusetts is not having it. Governor

Mora Healey posted an image with a

Dunkin cup saying come and take it.

Others are having fun with uh the the

jab on social media saying things like

if this administration changes anything

that goes into Duncan I will make

January 6 look like a tea party. Um you

know it's interesting they're going

after brands like well RFK is such an

such a another Um it's it's

interesting because remember when

Bloomberg did this with the co with the

sugar? It wasn't good. It wasn't a good

minute for him.

>> Now the big gulp. What do you what do

you think about this? I think Duncan is

not a good thing to go after. I feel

like people really like that Dunkin

Donuts. They really do.

>> They know it's full of sugar. They're

aware.

>> America runs on Duncan. Cara, um,

>> look, I I think people have the right to

kill themselves. And if they want to do

it slowly with McDonald's and Duncan,

that's kind of their opportunity. I

think the government has an obligation

to go the other way and provide more

education. 70% of Americans are obese or

overweight. It's like 38% are obese. In

Japan, it's 4%. And it starts very

early. They have every public school has

to have a nutritionist and they are not

allowed to have any processed food and

everything has to be fresh in the

morning.

>> There's a whole scene in my documentary

with me in a Korean school eating their

food. It's astonishing when you see

>> and you ask these kids what their

favorite food is. They're like broccoli.

>> Yes. They were like, "Oh, this kimchi

here." It was a fermented food. It was

miso soup. It was rice. Certainly. It

was It was so good. It was so healthy.

It was crazy. and they end up paying

6,000 or $7,000 per consumer on

healthcare and we pay 13,000 folks.

Let's do the math. So, I don't like I

don't like demonizing.

>> Look, I like McDonald's. I like Dunkin

Donuts. I like to think that because of

education early on I I got some, you

know, I'm focused on eating the right

foods. Also, the reality is fast food is

a function of poverty and that is or or

going back to the same income inequality

and that is if you're a single mother,

>> the cheapest caloric intake is fast

food.

>> It is.

>> And people people want to get moral and

lecture people about the importance of

cooking at home and cooking with good

food. Actually, the the myth is that

cooking at home saves you money. No,

it's not. To cook at home with natural

ingredients is really expensive.

>> It is.

>> And so,

>> and also time. A lot of people have two

jobs

>> or food deserts.

>> Yeah.

>> Uh but again, I'm I I've said this

before. I think the most transformative

technology over the next five or 10

years is not AI. I think it's GLP1. But

>> um love McDonald's. Think people should

have the right to kill themselves fast

or slow if they want.

>> But I think a really good investment

would be giving people enough money and

enough education that they want to and

can afford to eat well.

>> Yeah. But I have to say I wouldn't go up

against Mara Healey. I would not if I

were you, RFK. She's a tough nut. She

was a big basketball player. I don't

know if you know that. She was a very

good one. Um anyway, uh we'll see what

happen, right? That one.

>> Yeah, she's great. But it's really

interesting that that these these I have

to say some of the brands on social

media are really interesting. Um and

some of them are better than others.

Wendy's does an amazing job, for

example, online.

>> Well, you know what Peter Pan's favorite

place to eat out is?

>> Where where is

>> Wendy's?

Oh god, I can't believe you have a dirty

joke about Wendy's. Oh, thank God. All

right, Scott, one more quick break.

We'll be back for predictions. Okay,

Scott. Um, let's hear a prediction. I

have something very quickly to say in

the prediction department. I if for

people who didn't notice, there was a

story uh again on uh bots again about

problems with wrongful deaths and

suicides. This time it's Google with

Gemini AI chatbot coached a man towards

suicide. And it is the story is

devastating. This is an adult, not a ch

not a young person, not someone

underage, but uh it's still just as

devastating what it did and what it told

him to do and it made him go to places

and look for things in order to find a

robot to put this digital girlfriend

into. Um, I have to say I predict some

really significant legislation around

this in a way that is probably going to

be too reactive and at the same time um,

uh, it necessary because of the way

these companies are conducting their

their chat bots that interact with

people on a personal level and they have

done nothing to to rein them in. Um, and

so I think there's going to be a flood

of things around how we interact with

technology, uh, that's going to be

bipartisan and pretty ugly for the tech

companies. Go ahead. I've been talking

about this for years, but I think

>> Yeah. And I didn't mean to make light at

fast food that there was that mass

shooting at a fast food restaurant where

the guy was screaming, "You've ordered

your last McRib." And then one of the

workers said, "Sir, this is a Wendy's."

>> Oh my god,

>> that's so wrong, Cara.

>> It's so wrong.

>> That's so wrong.

>> Either way. Anyway, what's your

prediction?

>> You know, I want to take some license

here and I wanted to talk I wanted to do

kind of a a fail in a win. And that is

um

I just I watched I'm one of my living

heroes is uh Madame uh Secretary Clinton

and it's the only person I've ever

canvas for. And

I saw what I saw uh when I saw I watched

her entire testimony.

I just thought the level of sexism

was so insane.

Um and that is um so first off,

when is the last time

a man was asked repeatedly to explain

his wife's behavior or actions?

and the the absurdity of holding wives

accountable for husbands.

And here's what's so incredibly

up about this. We live in a world

>> they ought to responsible for you. So go

ahead.

>> We live in a world where a woman with

her own 50-year career in public

service, senator, secretary of state,

presidential candidate gets hauled in

front of a committee and asked to

explain what her husband did, not what

you did, what he did. And also there's

this implicit assumption that like and

why didn't you stop him? And we've seen

the same for decades. When a

powerful man does something wrong, we

turn to his wife and ask, "Where were

you? Why didn't you know? Why didn't you

leave him? Why are you still with him?"

>> She's often

>> and we never ask the inverse. When a

woman in power screws up, we don't haul

her husband in and ask him to explain

her choices.

>> We don't demand he account for her

behavior. Yeah,

>> we don't ask why did you stay with her

>> because implicit in all this is this

>> we do ask that but go ahead

>> implicit in all this is this assumption

that men are autonomous agents

responsible for their own actions which

is right whereas women are responsible

for everyone's actions including their

husbands the double standard is

staggering if if if Hillary had left

Bill after the Lewinsky scandal she'd

have been called a calculating

opportunist who who abandoned him and

that it was politically convenient. If

she stays with him, she's complicit in

everything

um he's ever done. So, I just think it's

insane that they kept asking her

questions when he was testifying the

next day. Well, ask him.

>> She handled it beautifully.

>> Yeah, I agree. So now just to to piss

off the Brooklyn Sandled or Birkenstock

crowd on the other side, there is

absolutely a double standard

for for women when it comes to asking

them to explain obvious discretions or

conflicts of interest. Watching the

exchange, basically saying, "Are you

having sex with are you in an

extrammarital?" And I I'm gonna be

clear. I'm not judging them on having an

extrammarital affair or having sex. When

you're having a relationship with your

number two who is unqualified,

that is reason to be fired at any

organization, any corporation, much less

a cabinet position. And and what the

exchange reminded me of was how

selectively we apply accountability and

politics. And as someone who considers

them a feminist, that means you're

subject to the same opportunities. And

also, you're entitled to the same amount

of as everybody else. And when male

politicians face questions about

personal conduct, the expectation is

clear. Answer the question. And

when they dodge, the press and the

opposition usually press harder until

they deny it or or admit it.

>> Tony Gonzalez, did that just happen?

>> Evasion becomes the story. But when a

woman, Secretary Gnome, respond to a

direct question about a relationship,

calling it total garbage and declining

to actually say no, the moment largely

passed without the same relentless

followup.

>> Yeah, Gonzalez is still in the news for

>> because of this double standard of being

accused of shaming. This is sexism

the other way. If a male cabinet

secretary responded that way to a

similar question, the headlines would

reads would read refuses to deny and the

questioning wouldn't stop. So there is

sexism asking women to take

responsibility for their husbands, but

at the same time there's a double

standard of a lack of accountability

amongst women for the same types of

things where the press and and other

lawmakers would not let up. God

>> lawmakers I know I think lawmakers did

did not let up. I think they said it

>> it's over. It's done.

>> They are not they are doing their job.

They did ask and they asked several

times. say yes.

>> If this had been Bill Clinton or another

media until they clarified their

comments.

>> I'm going to say you're right about the

media. I'd say I think they

they asked as hard as they could and she

just refused. She went she just

>> I think I think they should have said

the following and it's easy to pick when

I think one of them senators should have

said

>> you are having an inappropriate

relationship with your number two who is

unqualified and this puts the nation at

risk. I would have backed her into a

corner.

>> That's fair that they could have done it

a different way. You're right.

>> So I'll move on. Um real quick my

prediction yeah

>> is no. And that is Dario Amodi has given

license and permission to CEOs to say

no.

>> And in the next 30 days, you are going

to see a raft of CEOs find their

testicles and start saying no to this

administration.

>> No. No. There's going to be a lot of

that. I agree with you 100%. Um, okay.

Well, speaking of yes, we will be in

Minnesota, everybody. Just so you know,

we're going to be there on Sunday night

and we're very excited and we're very

excited to do this show. It'll be a

pivot show and at the same time we're

going to talk a lot about Resist and

Unsubscribe and Scott's got some tricks

up his sleeve. We've got some special

guests, secret guests. Uh we're sold

out. Um so it's not like we're selling

it, but we're we're very excited to do

it and raise money for a legal

organization that helps immigrants

there. Um anyway, we want to hear from

you. Send us your question about

business tech or whatever's on your

mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot

to submit a question for the show or

call 85551 pivot. Elsewhere in the Karen

Scott universe, this week on ProfG

Markets, Scott spoke with big short

legend Steve Iceman about why he thinks

the war in Iran is unlikely to rattle

markets and why the bigger risk

investors should be watching again is

AI. Let's listen to a clip.

>> Everything that's being created by

people who are doing AI has value. The

question is how much value? So much

money is being spent.

Are the returns that these companies are

going to generate, are they going to

justify those returns? I suspect not. If

I had to stake my life on it, I'd say

we'd have some kind of replay where,

you know, in the internet bubble, the

first generation of internet companies

basically failed. And it was the second

generation of internet companies that

that took us on to glory in terms of the

value of the internet.

>> Oh, very good. Very sensible. That makes

sense. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for

listening uh to Pivot and be sure to

like and subscribe to our YouTube

channel. We'll be back next week with an

episode, as I said, taped live in

Minneapolis. Scott, I can't believe we

did it. I mean, we just thought about it

on the show and then we made it. So,

>> yeah, we had an idea and it's happened.