You want to just move the bass, you can

just pick it up.

You can also pick the whole thing up if

you want to.

It's the smallest micro change I've ever

seen in my life. That was amazing. Okay,

ready?

>> Oh, wait. Wait. So, we're rolling.

>> Yeah, rolling. Okay. Three, two, one.

[bell]

>> Feels actually really good.

>> I feel like my bowl is a little smaller

than yours. That's always That's always

been the case. [laughter]

You want to kick it off?

>> Hello friends and family, colleagues.

Uh,

>> that was amazing.

>> Very prominent ejaculation.

>> Welcome to Random Show.

>> Welcome [snorts] folks to another

episode of the random show.

>> Yes.

>> Couch audition edition.

>> That's right. ADU back of my place

edition.

>> Why do we have these fancy balls?

>> So this is for people not looking. These

are meditation balls. Yeah.

>> Got a bunch of script. Presumably that's

Tibetan or Sanskrit or something.

>> And you have a little corner, but that's

not the bad corner. That's the Zen

corner.

>> Yeah, that's the Zen corner. Would you

say bad corner?

>> Yeah. You know, you put kids in the bad

corner.

>> You like stand Did you have to do that

as a kid?

>> In school, I got sent to like the bad

table all the time.

>> Oh, there was a table.

>> Oh, yeah. And then the teacher in

kindergarten sent me to the bad table

with a bunch of other kids who were

really bad and then forgot that she had

decided it was the bad table and just

left us at the bad table for like the

entire year. And

>> so she's explain a lot of psychological

issues

>> that I've carried [laughter] with me.

>> This is not the bad table. This is the

This is the meditation area. And I have

bowls over here that I just use. I I

just like the sound of a good I mean,

you heard that. Hopefully, it came

through and didn't distort the mic. But

a well-rung bowl

is just it kind of sets it sets the tone

for the beginning of the meditation,

then also at the very end. It's also

just perfect for a podcast in Southern

California.

>> Yeah, exactly. Nice to be in person.

plays well in the the whole Yeah. SoCal

environment. There's bowls per capita

out here and crystal shops are very

high.

>> High density. High density, man.

>> Yeah. Another beautiful day in SoCal.

>> Beautiful day.

>> Doing a lot of walk-in.

>> Where should we start off, man? We got

tons. We just came back from our

retreat.

>> We did. We did. You want to describe the

the format?

>> Yeah. So, we've done a couple of these

retreats. This is the second one where

it's just a small group of people that

are interested in meditation and that

want to go a little bit deeper in the

world of Zen. You know, you and I both

talked about the way and Henry Shookman

a ton. The Way being his app. And

Henry's just a great leader, great Zen

master, and was accompanied by Valerie,

another Zen mastercloud

>> at Mountaincloud Zen Center,

>> New Mexico. So, we flew out there, small

group, got together, and it's kind of

like if if a if a proper Zen retreat is

like 5:30 cushion in the morning and

then you're off at 7:00 p.m. and it's

hardcore, like no talking, shitty food.

This was not that [laughter] like this

was we had a good good chef that was

there and we were allowed to ask

questions in between sits. The sits were

purposely kind of time bound to call it

maximum of 25 minutes and then a walking

meditation then another 25 minutes. That

was like kind of the max.

>> Yeah. Let me let me interject just so we

don't get into hyper bougie territory

too fast. So the chef was not our chef.

He's actually as I remember this is a

former I think James Beard award winner

>> who decided

>> to forgo the accolades and the

attention. How is that less bougie than

what I was going to say? Well, you said

we had a like a a nice chef, and people

might assume that we're like bringing in

a chef. This is a chef who actually

>> he lives there locally. [clears throat]

>> I know that's the point I'm making.

[laughter] He lives at the Zen Center

and has chosen a life of simplicity

working with local ingredients and

stuff.

>> And he is also normally there. It's not

like we had our own dedicated

>> That's right. chef.

>> That's right. That's [laughter]

>> not in my house. I eat I eat venison

jerky sticks most of the time. lentil.

Lentils out of a can still.

>> And you chug my freaking ketones about 5

minutes ago. Tim just goes in my fridge

and he's like, "Okay, what are you up

to?

>> I want to see what Kevin's up to. I want

to see."

>> He's like, "Okay, we got a little

semiglutide in here. We got some patha.

What else?"

>> He's like, "Oh, ketones." And he starts

chugging my my ketone esters.

>> Well, yeah. I unwrapped it and I was

like, I probably should ask if I can

drink this, but I'm guessing this has

been in there for weeks.

>> Dude, I don't that stuff that you drink

is like So, they make several ver

versions of that. Yeah,

>> that's like the fullon

>> I won't even F-16 isn't the latest

fighter jet. Whatever the gen 5 fighter

jet is, F22, it's the highest intensity.

This is the Delta G brand

>> ketone monoester, which is BHB, which is

kind of what you want

>> bound with something called 13b butane

dial, which I will say if you see that

on the ingredient list of your

supplement for exogenous ketones, treat

it like a shot of tequila. You really

want to use it in moderation. And

there's mounting evidence that it's

pretty unhealthy for your liver. So just

use in moderation in terms of ketone

supplementation. But hey, right before a

podcast, it's a great time for me to

take like 15 g. I will not do 30 because

and I talked to she'll probably come up

again. Our mutual friend Dr. Rhonda

Patrick about this. I don't think I'm

talking out of school here, but when you

take when I take, and this is true for

her as well, and I suspect other people,

the full 30, like the entire shot,

rather than decreasing anxiety, it

actually for me spikes it. And I think

that could be related to a very rapid

rise and then trough,

>> right,

>> afterwards, but who knows? The point is

keep it moderate. You're the first

person to tell me that it impacts liver

function

>> and I have more often than not had

elevated liver enzymes.

>> Surprise, surprise, on the whole

drinking front typically, but [snorts]

it's something I watch. And

>> when did you hear about that? Cuz I'd

never heard that to be the case.

>> I fortunately by virtue of doing the

podcast and also being incredibly

interested in science, interact with a

lot of researchers. So I get to have

chats with them once I get to know them

better about pre-publication data,

right? Studies that are underway and

they never want to talk about them

publicly because you have to check all

the boxes and science is also very much

about not fooling yourself when you make

a certain hypothesis.

But the first whispers of this were from

and still are from animal models where

you can basically dose mice with 13

butane dial and give them the equivalent

of fatty liver disease.

>> Oh wow.

>> It's not good.

>> And I'm sure I'm oversimplifying, but

holy [ __ ]

>> The point is treat it like ethanol.

Treat it like not even tequila.

Moonshine. Like you're drinking

moonshine. And you wouldn't want to do

that every day.

>> It tastes like moonshine

>> or cough syrup. Cough syrup. Moonshine.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. So that is just to say I think

they still think there's a time and a

place for it. I've been experimenting

with other versions like ketone salts.

Dominic Dagustinino he's also the

co-author on some of the papers that are

describing this.

>> He tried bath salts for a while too

which is

>> that was a very odd version of Tim that

>> if it's good if it's good for McAfee

>> just eat eat eat eat eat eat eat eat eat

eat eat eat eat eat eat eat eat eat eat

eat eating the flesh off of

>> yeah eating people wasn't that thing

that happens in the median in Florida.

It's always a Florida man.

>> Yeah. [snorts] It's a Florida man dot

dot dot. Yeah.

>> Eats another person.

>> Doing someone's face off after bath

salts. Stay away from bath salts, kids.

So, yeah, I came in nice and fully

loaded today.

>> Yeah. Awesome. Well, I am glad that

you're feeling better cuz you also might

not have made today. So, I Yeah, that's

a sidebar. I I ended up I may have had a

glancing blow of eggplant to which I'm

deathly allergic and woke up in the

middle of the night incredibly sick last

night. [laughter]

So, I'm glad I'm here. Yeah. And I

brought my ampen for for dinner later.

Amazing.

>> Learned my lesson.

>> Bring your backup.

>> Yeah.

>> So, the retreat, let's finish that off

real quick. So, we got together.

>> What did you learn this time around? Cuz

we've done this twice. You've dabbled in

the world of Zen.

>> You've always said, correct me if I'm

wrong, but meditation has been a hard

thing for you typically.

>> Mhm.

>> Where are you now with your practice?

Well, what I would say is, you know, the

first thing speaking as a very much

still a novice on any level, I would say

that meditation is kind of like sports

or exercise. It's like, do you like

exercise? Like, well, what kind of

exercise, right? Meditation. There's so

many different ways to meditate or

explore mindfulness. There's the vaposa

approach. There's transcendental

meditation. There's Zen, which is very

much its own thing, right? And you know

more about that than I do. But what I do

find helpful about the retreats is

you can describe what is going on when

you're sitting still with your eyes

closed trying to focus on something in

the case of say the breath or trying to

just observe whatever comes up.

>> Mh. And the feedback that you get from

someone like Henry or Valerie where you

can do a 25 minute sit and then take a

short break, talk about it and they can

say well given that you experienced this

this maybe you had restlessness. Maybe

you had in my case this sort of planning

compulsion right? So rather than

memories or fantasies about who knows

what, not necessarily. People can run

wild with that, but I default to plans

like things I need to do,

>> right?

>> And it's like, okay, well, if that's

coming up, then Henry might say, why

don't you try in the next set, which

we're going to do in 10 minutes or 5

minutes, A, B, or C. And then you do it

and you provide feedback. And so you're

able to really polish the stone moving

forward. And similar I suppose to a lot

of what we might call transcendental

experiences which sounds fancy but it's

really just perhaps not fixating on the

self or interrogating what this thing is

that we call the self which you can do

through meditation.

>> You can also do it with or maybe you're

forced to do it in some cases with

psychedelic experiences or other things

breath work.

>> When I was there at the retreat you

might remember this. I was getting very

frustrated and I was like where's all

this frustration coming from? Yeah.

>> And while I was there, I was like, I

don't know how much I'm getting out of

this right now.

>> Mhm.

>> But when I got back to quote unquote

real life in Austin, I had like 3 to 5

days of this just kind of blissful, calm

attention where I was able to get

everything done I need to get done.

There was no rushing.

>> There was no looping and any kind of

future tripping. And I was like, well,

that's very interesting. And it also

holds true for say breath work,

psychedelics. There are many different

things that you could look at. And

interestingly, maybe this is one way to

think of it. I mean, in a sense, there

are a lot of parallels between different

methods for entering what people might

consider a trans state. And I don't

think meditation is exempt from that

depending on what it is. But if it's a

concentration practice, it's like for

sure

>> you're using a mantra or you're using

something you're repeating. in the case

of

>> TM in the same way that you might use

rhythmic drumming.

>> Yeah.

>> And you can go some pretty weird places

and then you come out of you're like, I

don't know what to make of that

>> and sometimes the payoff is what you

notice in the next unfolding week or two

or three or whatever the duration might

be.

>> That's right.

>> So that was that was very invigorating

for me. And also Henry at one point used

a prompt

in response to I'll give a great this is

a real world example of something that

happened to me something I experienced

in the sit and then Henry's response

right so I use the way all the time full

disclosure we're both involved with it I

mean it's really because

more than anything else it's just I

think it's good for humanity and people

to learn from somebody who is really

deliberate about layering on progressive

skills that you can take outside of the

meditation.

But one of the practices is labeling. So

if and there are a million different

ways to do this, but let's just say talk

comes up in the mind and you label it

radio or talking and then if some kind

of video comes up in the mind, right?

Images,

>> you're imagining something or planning

something or remembering something.

Okay, that's video, right? And so on and

so forth. Yeah. But for me, as someone

with very well established OCD,

[laughter]

I can just end up being like radio radio

radio and it turns into

>> instead of a helpful thing, a very

interruptive, stressful thing, right?

>> And at that point in the retreat, and

the retreat clear was 3 to 4 days,

something like that. It was very short.

Henry said, "Okay, well, let's" He moved

into the next sit and he said, "Just be

still, right? Like, just be still.

That's it. That is the focus. Like, just

sit still." And did that for two

consecutive sits. I just focused on

that. And it was remarkable how much

everything calmed down. I was like,

"Okay,

>> well, just like exercise, like some

people, sure, can go to the gym and do

full sprinting workouts on an incline

treadmill. Not everybody can do that,

>> right? and other folks are well suited

to yoga. Some people are well suited to

different types of lifting, etc. And

everybody should probably spend a little

bit of time in each of those

compartments if they can.

>> But it's not like everyone is equally

suited.

>> For instance, in my case, to like the

open monitoring stuff, like we'll just

sit there and notice all the things that

come up. I was like, so I came out of

the retreat thinking, you know what,

something along the lines of

transcendental meditation, not

necessarily with that branding, but

using a [ __ ] using just be still as a

concentration practice that I repeat

really gives me a lot of payoff. If I

just sit still for 10 to 20 minutes

twice a day,

>> can I tell you my theory on this?

>> No.

So my my one of my theories because I've

been going super deep on bioelectric

medicine and different ways of using

electricity in place of pills basically

>> and medications which I think is really

the next frontier in a million different

ways. People should check out Michael

Leven tufts and some of the crazy

[snorts] stuff he's able to do. But

related to meditation, I did this deep

dive with someone named

Kevin Tracy who's very credible

scientist, very widely cited, helped

discover and explore a lot related to

TNF alpha and all sorts of things.

>> And he is incredibly [snorts]

knowledgeable of vag nerve stimulation.

Not the bogus [ __ ] kind, which is

99.9% of what you see on the internet.

>> Yeah. Yeah. But using say implants the

size of an omega-3 capsule in the neck,

which is where the biggest nerves run.

It's really like two transcontinental

cables running down either side of the

neck. Each one has about 100,000 fibers.

And if you put an implant in that's

giving continuous stimulation

on and off, on and off. It's not 24/7.

It's incredibly effective for things

like rheumatoid arthritis.

>> And actually, it was FDA approved. It

was on the cover of the New York Times

the day that I interviewed him. And that

raised the question, how? Why? What's

going on? And it just so happens when

you stimulate the Vegas nerve, you

activate something called the

inflammatory reflex. And you can in

effect prevent damaging cytoine storms,

decrease systemic inflammation of all

different types. That word inflammation

is kind of a umbrella term for a

thousand million different things. And I

remember chatting with one of my friends

who is a professor. He was using the 10%

Happier app by Dan Harris and he was

meditating twice a day and after like

one or two weeks he's like all of his

aches which are debilitating. Like he

had a lot of muscular skeletal issues

>> they just went away. And one way people

might try to explain that is like, well,

you're becoming more present to your

feelings and maybe it was psychosmatic,

right?

>> But I think it might actually be when

you sit still and you inherently end up

breathing rhythmically because you can

also stimulate your vag nerve with say

box breathing and other things

>> that you do that twice a day. If you

were to use an implant or let's just say

either earbased or neck based

stimulation of the Vegas nerve, guess

how long it lasts? Roughly 12 hours. So

you do it twice a day, you're getting

full coverage. Oh, interesting. And so

if you're getting full coverage, and

there's a lot more to it, I won't dig

too deep right now. If you're getting

twice a day vag nerve stimulation from

sitting and focusing on breathing, even

if you don't realize that you're

entraining your breathing, I think that

might have explanatory power for some of

the benefits people see from meditation.

That's fascinating. So, I bought one of

the Vegas nerve stimulators that hooks

onto my ear. Have you seen that one? And

you feel that this little tiny pulse of

current that's happening. M

>> people who are not watching this may

have trouble envisioning this, but I'm

actually in communication with a couple

of scientists in Scandinavia.

I don't want to dox this guy cuz I don't

think he's public with it yet, but there

are two ways currently non-invasively to

to stimulate the vag nerve that are

commonly known. One is the neck where

you really like press some type of

device. There are a number of them out

there mostly used for migraines or

cluster headaches. It's pretty

unpleasant. Like you stimulate the neck

and it activates the superficial muscles

in your face and it pulls your face

down.

And I used one of those for probably

four to six weeks. Didn't see any

systemic benefits.

A friend of mine doubled his HRV using

one of those devices like from he he had

some I'm not going to call it PTSD, but

he had some

>> overactive sympathetic drive.

>> Mhm. And the vagus nerve stimulation is

associated with the rest and digest

parasympathetic. Okay. Which is also why

right now I stimulate before bed

>> 5 minutes twice a day.

>> I mean I do

>> for for the ear. Jesus Christ.

>> No I talk about the [laughter]

>> for for the ear. There's something

called the Simba conscia. I think I'm

pronouncing that correctly. Yeah. If

people can see most of the research

>> this little bit right here.

>> Most right here.

>> Okay. And you can look this up online.

You kind of want the the the portion of

the simba that is closer to your

sideburns, let's say.

>> Okay.

>> And then you need another piece that is

grounding and or completing the circuit

and that's got to be touching your skin.

The contact point is incredibly

important. Are there any of these that

you like that are consumer available?

Cuz a lot of the stuff you you

mentioned,

>> you can DIY it with components off of

Amazon and maybe I'll make that

available to folks. The reason I

hesitate to do that is that it's easy to

get wrong

>> and you can

I just don't want to be responsible for

people trying to [laughter]

put current through their heads. Right.

There are a lot of people who DIY trying

to do TMS and stuff.

>> Yeah. This is the one and they reverse

polarity and they like you can fry your

brain. Not with the vag nerve stuff

necessarily, but you got to be really

careful with stimulation.

>> Have you ever heard of this one?

Neuropod.

>> I haven't.

>> Yeah. I haven't had I mean it's it's

basically if you look at who's involved

on the the scientist level like it's

it's crazy the number of you know

>> n u r o p o d let me see the world's

most studied wearable Vegas nerve

stimulation

>> 100 plus international UCLA did a study

there pen I

>> that's interesting to check it out

>> it's interesting but I will say like

just beyond anything I've owned this

thing for about a year and a half I did

it for about 2 weeks for 30 minutes a

day and I didn't notice anything. Yeah,

I'm looking. It's hard for me to see the

placement on the earpiece. The placement

is very very very specific.

>> Clips right here to this this lobe right

here.

>> Oh, yeah. I don't think that's in the

right place.

>> But you feel a little ticky ticky tick

like like shock almost.

>> Yeah. I I don't think you're Look, I

this is my first time seeing it, but I

don't think you're going to be

necessarily hitting as many fibers as

you would want if that's the placement.

>> Yeah,

>> but who knows? Look, a lot of fancy

names on the website. Maybe I'll take a

look at it. Yeah, I mean it's worth

mine. I want something I can recommend

to people.

>> Yeah, exactly. Right now, I can't

recommend this because it's not done

anything for me, but I when I was doing

the research for the most like this one,

they've clearly paid for studies to be

done. Obviously, that's a huge grain of

salt because

>> who's doing the studies and what their

biases and whatnot, but I'll let you

I'll let you borrow mine and see if it

does does anything for you. It is a $900

device, which is like [ __ ] that's a lot

of money to spend. I'm yeah I'm using a

prototype of one from Scandinavia right

now on Amazon. Look, I'm sure people can

find some instructions for this. You can

DIY something for like 20 to $25 worth

of components on Amazon.

>> It is not. It's just a small unit

>> cables. The placement is very

challenging to get right.

>> Yeah.

>> And I did not see much in terms of

results from me even with a lot of

professional guidance using that. So I

want to tell you about something

related.

>> But but can I stop for a second? Try

breathing.

>> Yeah.

>> Like do box breathing.

>> So that's what this

>> or something like that. Do that twice a

day.

>> Okay. This is why also in the great

nerve which is a book written by Kevin

Tracy. It's a great book. There's an

extended chapter about Wimhof. And

Wimhof is a very controversial figure

but well known for breath work. And you

see some of the same effects in terms of

controlling immune response so that it

is not excessive

with respect to various types of

cytoines and so on. You can do it with

breath work.

>> So yeah, what are we looking at?

>> This. Have you ever heard of heart math?

>> I have heard of heart math.

>> Okay. Yeah.

>> I went to little mini retreat where they

were doing like a bunch of different

modalities in terms of different

therapies and things to like just really

let you be the best version of yourself.

And one of the things that they did was

they gave you a heart math device and

they had a whole class on it. And I was

like, "Yeah, I heard that thing before.

I never tried it." And so I hooked it up

to my ear and it measures your HRV. But

what what blew my mind was that the app

once you launch it, it's like follow

this box breathing and we're going to

watch you get to watch your HRV in real

time.

>> Yeah.

>> And dude, it when I followed it just as

it was telling me what to do, the HRV

just like shot up.

>> Yeah.

>> And then I would try and trick it and

I'd be like I'd follow it, but I think

of something really stressful and my HRV

would go down. So there, I'm telling

you, this is the coolest device I have

owned in a while. And you lock into this

coherence mode as you do this breathing.

And it's it's pretty awesome. It's 250

bucks. I'm not an investor or anything,

but heartmath.commath.com

>> and 60-day money back guarantee. And

well, I I want to say that because I I

hate recommending stuff.

>> Affiliate code Kevin 40%. [laughter]

>> Exactly. Tim Tim 20% off. Uh I I hate

recommending stuff when people spend

their money and but I will say this with

the one one thing that I was

>> I've heard good things about HeartMath.

I don't know who's involved. I did.

Maybe you didn't know this. For a period

of time, maybe it was about three

months, I did training for this

specifically, I think it was before any

retail options were available with a

doctor named Leah Logos, who has a book

about this. And we actually in real time

would do a video call and identify what

type of breathing specifically would

have in real time the biggest impact on

HR.

>> And there is something to this. There's

definitely something to this. I can't

speak to heart math, but I've I've heard

of it before. So, don't worry about the

device for stimulation. The point being,

try meditating twice a day for 10 to 20

minutes. And if you're like, gh

meditating, god, I'm allergic to that

word because it gets used so much. Try

breathing, right? Use heart math or

something else. There's not a whole lot

you need to worry about. Andy while has

some very good breathing exercises.

>> 478.

>> Yeah. So, I have box breathing and478 on

my app. It's still in the app store and

it's 100% free. Yeah,

>> there's no way you to pay for anything

on the app. So, if you just Google, you

can find it and it has like six

different breathing techniques on there

that people do.

>> I think here's a hypothesis/bet.

I think that if it hasn't been

demonstrated already, I haven't done a

full like lit search for this. I think

there are breathing patterns if you

repeat them in the morning and at night

twice a day roughly 12 hours apart like

10 to 20 minutes that you will see a lot

of benefits for things like chronic

pain.

>> Yeah,

>> I think it is I I really feel very

confidently.

>> So that's exciting.

>> Yeah. Sweet. What else you got? I've got

crazy things. I mean I just had my

birthday a few weeks ago which is crazy

cuz I'm marching towards 50 really

quick.

>> I know. And so are you

>> getting dragged through the doorway with

your fingernails leaving?

>> It's really scary from the lenolium.

>> Well, what's crazy is dude, okay, so

when I first when Tim and I first

started hanging out like whatever 15

years ago, 17 years ago, maybe 20 I

don't even know how long close to 20

years ago.

>> It was 20 years ago, you know, he's

like, "Let me like every time you walk

into Tim's house, he like tackles you

with some kind of new jiu-jitsu move to

take you down." In like the last 3

years, he's been carrying a ball for his

lower back where he's like, "I can't

move." And it's like old man Tim has

appeared [laughter] and like that old

Tim that would tackle you with a

jiu-jitsu move is gone.

>> The gentle art, not so gentle turns out.

>> But I know one of the things that I want

to really focus on for this next decade

is balance. I balance obviously is is

such a key thing and it's the number one

way that people in their as they get

older in their 60s,7s and beyond are

actually permanently injured is by

falling and breaking a hip and and

things like that. So, two things to show

off.

>> Like incredible increase in risk like

all cause mortality if you're older and

you break a hip.

>> Yes. Turns out breaking hips are not

good. So, check this out. This one right

here I've had for a while.

>> Don't fall on your ringing ball.

>> So, don't Can you imagine? I smash my

face on the ringing ball. So, I'm going

to show you how this works. Have you

used this before?

>> I have. Yeah.

>> And so, are you good at these or no?

>> Oh god, you're like feel like a parent

watching after you.

How well can you do the balance boards?

>> Uh, I haven't done it in a long time.

There's one called the Indo board, which

I have and I've [ __ ] around with it. I

don't think today is the day. Well, so

check this out. So, 5 minutes a day.

There was some research that was done

around people with ADHD

>> and it dramatically improve their

symptoms, which I have a ton of.

>> Yeah, you can't really

>> But I want I want to know if you can do

this. I want to I want to see if you can

do the

>> pay you have to pay attention if you're

on this thing.

>> Could you do these?

>> I don't know. Never tried it.

>> And then the tippy toes. So, I do 50

squats

>> like this.

>> Yeah.

>> And And

>> I should also point out you have history

as a skateboarder.

>> I do.

>> Yeah. Which helps.

>> Let's see. Let's see. Tim,

>> I don't know if I'm going to You'll be

okay. You'll be okay. I'll hold your

hand when you go up.

>> Come on. Just give it a shot for a

second. I want to see.

>> I'll give you some I'll give you some

depends and you give you a walker so you

can get up there.

>> Okay. So, one foot there.

>> Yep. I got it.

>> Jesus. Okay.

Oh [ __ ]

Hold on.

There you There. Oh, it's got [snorts]

blockers so you won't slide off the end.

Yeah. Yeah. Lean hard, right? Hard

right. Hard on the right foot.

>> Yeah. It's like

>> It's hard, isn't it?

>> Well, I'm like nervous about falling

over. There you go. There we go. Now the

squat. This is kind of like

slackboarding where like you need a

couple of days to get your nervous

system

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Isn't it amazing how your nervous

system adapts to it?

>> Yeah.

>> So, there there's a crazy video

>> people should check out. I think maybe

it's not online. There's a guy named

Jersey Gregoric had on the podcast. He's

got to be 70s something right now, but

he was 67. He could stand on one of

these at 67 with a fully loaded barbell

with like 150 200 lb. He weighs probably

130. and he could do a perfect form

Olympic snatch landing with ass to heels

and then stand back up and do

repetitions.

>> So, dude, I when I was just in Japan

last week,

>> all right, there we go. That's enough.

When I was just in Japan last week, I

was out there and I was I was at this

event. Whoops. I was at this friend's

birthday party that Tony Hawk's also

friends with. I was hanging with Tony

and he's like

last time I saw Tony I was like dude how

you doing because

>> Tony Hawk one of the most legendary

skateboards of all time for people who

don't know

>> people definitely know who Tony Hawk is

but yeah you might [laughter]

>> I mean a lot of people know who Tony

>> so so Tony for the youngsters

>> last time I saw him he had a cane oh

>> and I was like this was probably like

eight months ago or whatever and I was

like dude how you doing and he's like I

just got a couple screws put into my hip

and you know he had this injury and I

was like holy [ __ ] man. I'm like in my

head I'm like a [ __ ] legend. You know

pushing himself in his 50s to do like

he's still doing like you know whatever

720s on the halfpipe and in his mid-50s

like [ __ ] crazy. And I saw him up in

up in Hokkaido and we're going

snowboard. He's like yeah I'm going

boarding today. He has no cane no

nothing. And I'm like do you have pain?

Like do you have pain? Like do you feel

pain? like what what are you doing in

your mid-50s like doing vert

snowboarding like you know what I mean?

And he's just like yeah he's like my my

wife jokes that I should have a shirt

that says like always in pain or

something like that [laughter] and I was

just like that is a some people are

built like that though.

>> Have you ever seen his shins?

>> I'm sure they're just like he looks like

a tie kickboxer.

>> Yeah, exactly dude. He has been hit so

many times by the board. It's insane.

you and your birthday when I was at your

birthday in New York probably about

>> I don't know maybe 7 10 years ago you

had a slack line in your backyard.

>> Yeah.

>> And I couldn't do it at all.

>> Yeah.

>> At not even one step

>> because it is a very much a nervous

system practice.

>> It's a nervous system practice.

>> So I found this online is like a little

home one. Do you have one like this?

>> That's cool. I have played around with

these. The These are pretty sweet. So I

have not used

>> the smaller ones. I had one between

trees. Same company given. [snorts] And

just for people who've never played with

this, if you're going to try it, don't

do like an hour thinking that you're

going to figure out in one day. You

actually, my belief is you need sleep

cycles for your nervous system to try to

integrate it. So, you're better off

doing a few minutes every day

>> and gradually you'll figure it out. But

that's cool. Very portable. So,

obviously a lot easier to set up and

take down than a gigantic thing between

two trees with ratchets and everything.

Yeah, exactly. I just wanted to get one

because again on the balance front, they

little have a little QR code there at

the end that you scan and they give you

about 20 or 30 different exercises that

you can do with it. like the toe taps

where one foot is on and you tap a toe

on each side of the bar and like you're

right in there's this weird thing and I

noticed this in my kids where they got

those little hoverboards for Christmas

so they can just kind of zoom around and

they're seven and eight and day one like

eating [ __ ] you know helmets full gear

and day two my youngest is just like

like

just flying over the place totally

figured it out there but it took a

couple days of that that kind of

adaption and that muscle memory to kind

of kick in which I think all these

things do. But yeah, this has been

awesome. Yeah. And for for people who

might want to try slacklining,

don't get on a slack line really far off

the ground, number one, but a lot of

rock climbing gyms have slack lines set

up so you can potentially get someone to

show you the basic ropes, pun intended,

of walking on a slack line over there.

And it's called Gibbon. Pretty sure this

is why it's called gibbon because if you

see really good slacklin liners, they

they do this with their arms as they're

walking across. And what does that look

like? It looks like a gibbon. This

monkey.

>> Yeah.

>> And you can you can see footage of

gibbons walking across like rope on

small suspension bridges.

>> Pretty fascinating stuff. So

>> try it out.

>> Awesome.

>> And you know, I'll I'll throw something

out there. Yeah, let's do it.

>> Because it's related to

>> rock climbing. Well, a couple of things.

since you brought it up. So, for the

last two days, you know, we've been

hanging out a little bit and you have

not seen my little blow up Pilates ball

that I usually put behind my L.

>> I just mentioned it a few minutes ago. I

normally do see it. Yeah,

>> but you haven't seen it.

>> I know.

>> So, what's going on? Well, it seems

like, and this is not going to apply to

most people, and this is a work in

progress, so it's not definitive, but

[snorts] I ended up meeting with a

neurologist and surgeon in Austin,

>> and you've injected baby seals stem

cells into your spine. No,

>> it's going to be some [ __ ] like that.

Like,

>> no, it's it's it might apply to a very

very small fraction of the people who

are actually listening to this.

>> He did imaging. He used to be

in a clinic where they ran trials and

studies related to something called

bertilotti syndrome. And bertiladotti

syndrome is incredibly uncommon. Most

specialists in his profession might see

one or two cases in their entire

careers, but he's seen hundreds.

>> And he looked at my imaging and he said,

"You may actually have berilotti

syndrome." And he he pointed out they

had very advanced imaging. It's the

first time it came up. It corresponds

perfectly to where I point to when

people ask me when I have pain or where

I have pain, excuse me. And it's it's in

effect where you have a transitional

segment. So, it's like a lumbar

vertebrae that's behaving like a sacral

vertebrae or vice versa.

>> And let's just say it's like L5 and the

the transverse processes, I think it's

transverse processes on both, try to

form a pseudo joint. So they basically

lay on bone and [laughter]

other material to try to create what is

then called a pseudo joint. And if you

look at [snorts] textbook cases of

bertilotties, you're like, "Yeah, of

course that's going to hurt your low

back."

>> And as a way of testing the hypothesis,

he said, "Well, let's before we even

consider any interventions, let's try to

hone in on whether [clears throat] that

is accurate or not as a diagnosis." The

way we'll do that is there are some

nerves that affect that area

specifically. There's no like radiating

effect or anything down the leg. Let's

put in effectively a nerve block and

then see what happens. Like we'll we'll

put in a nerve block. What does a nerve

block?

>> Basically stops the area from

transmitting pain signals.

>> But like what does it mean though? What

when you put in a nerve block?

>> Well, you you lay down in my case on

your face. I hate when anyone is messing

with my spine, man. It's like very I've

had so many things done to me and I'm

usually cool as a cucumber, but when

needles are like in or around my spine,

>> yeah,

>> I really get the fear sweats. I don't

like it at all. But in this case, that

was

>> required. So, you get a in this case it

was I think it was lidocaine, small

amount of lidocaine to numb the surface.

>> Then they're going through quite a bit

of deep musculature. So they go in and

then they're putting in and in in this

case and obviously you need specialists

for this who the baby seal

>> prolocca they have baby seal semen um no

it was prolocane and something called

kennalog and but none none of those

specifics are the punch line the punch

line is he's after he did the injection

he said okay this particular portion of

the cocktail is going to last 18 hours

and then you're going to get probably

two weeks of effect from the kennel

something like that which is a cortisone

on shot basically. And he said, "I want

you to do all of the things that you

think will most piss off your back. Like

all the things you've been avoiding,

which for me are sitting on hard

surfaces,

sitting with a slightly flexed back,

like if you're sitting on a bar stool

and you're kind of like this,

>> any of those, stretching in that

position, sitting on the floor with the

dogs, certainly things like heavy

deadlifts, squats. So I did all of that

stuff for three days straight. zero

pain. And I'm like, "Holy shit." After

having so many specialists from

different disciplines say like, "Yeah, I

know you point to that, but that's not

the spot. It's actually because there's

referral pain from this, this, or this."

And just having so many people dismiss

how precisely I could point to where I

felt the most pain,

>> which which was consistent over years.

And for the first time, he's like, if we

look at the imaging right here, it is

exactly where you were grinding with

your finger.

>> So, I'm I'm cautiously optimistic. I

mean,

>> dude, that's amazing.

>> This is the first time in six years.

Also, just like you have there are

different tools that work for different

people. Sometimes it requires multiple

tools. A lot of people have benefited

from the work of John Sarno.

But that school for instance in effect

says

none of the imaging really maps to

symptoms. Well, it's all in your head.

So do cognitive training and

reconditioning to solve it because

>> that's the guy that Howard Stern got his

back problems fixed through. Right.

>> It might be a lot of people benefit from

that stuff.

>> But it's also infuriating to be told

like every type of back pain is in your

head. I'm like, really? If I took a

ballpeen hammer and smashed one of your

vertebrae, that would be in your head.

Like, I guess technically since the

brain is governing pain, like fine.

>> But this is the first time with a very

simp relatively simple

>> but precise intervention.

I guess it's been about 5 days. It's

like I can do everything with no pain.

So,

>> dude, that's amazing.

>> So, what does that mean? Well,

>> could be the cortisol shot. That's the

one thing that's like

>> Well, that's that is probably had that

before, right? Or no,

>> no, I haven't. But but here's the thing.

So that that's going to have

>> anti-inflammatory

>> a different Yeah. anti-inflammatory.

It's also going to basically kind of,

for lack of a better term, like puff up

the pseudo joint in a way that sort of

reverses the chronological

age or development of that in some ways

from a symptom perspective. But the the

this this is where I I'll offer people

something they can potentially look into

obviously with the help of really really

really good doctors.

If that shot continues to deliver

benefits and I can do all these things

painfree which is the case right now

then there's something called radio

frequency ablation RFA which is used to

in this case temporarily completely

incapacitate those nerves. M

>> so they go in they apply radio frequency

ablation and that should last for like a

year a year and a half hopefully and the

hope in that case is okay with a year

year and a half and I already spoke you

know I've spoken to multiple people and

they're like yeah it shouldn't even if

you

resume a lot of your activities and

stair step into it that previously

caused pain you shouldn't structurally

make that worse right that was a concern

>> and I think that's an enough of a period

of time where you could effectively

reprogram

your pain patterning, right? Because for

years now, it's like if I sit on a hard

surface, my brain is like code red,

defcon 5, like you are about to not be

able to sleep for six to seven days.

>> Yeah.

>> And you're going to have trouble walking

and sitting and standing.

>> So, super exciting.

>> That's awesome.

>> All right. So, you mind if I continue my

TED talk for a second?

>> All right. So, uh also

>> [gasps]

>> had long overdue surgery. I think I

might have talked about this last time,

but on my extensors, right? So, the

forearm extensors. So, this would be

considered like tennis elbow.

>> Oh god. Like 20 plus years overdue from

a sports injury.

>> And I'm back to rock climbing. I'm not

great at rock climbing, but I love it. I

just love rock climbing. Feeling really

good. And if people have never seen

something called Abra Hangs, so like

Abraham, but Abra Hangs, go on YouTube,

find this Swedish rock climber named

Emil Abrahen. So Abraham Sun, S SO N. He

is a monster. Very competent rock

climber. Does like V13 problems and

probably much more. incredible explainer

of things and dives into a lot of

training. And he along with the help of

this scientist named Keith Bar, B A R,

who I've actually had on the podcast,

developed or tested this protocol for

improving tendon strength. And it is the

simplest, lowest impact thing you can

imagine. It's basically 10 minutes twice

a day.

>> And he does a bunch on a hangboard, but

let's keep it simple. Let's say you're

hanging on could be a pull-up bar, could

be a door jam, could be, you know, the

the underside of some stairs, whatever.

And he's hanging with like 30 to 85% of

his weight. So, his feet are still on

the floor.

>> Does that for 10 seconds on, 50 seconds

off,

>> 10 seconds on, 50 seconds off, and you

do it 10 times. That's 10 minutes. And

then you do it again later in the day.

and his before and after strength and

endurance tests

>> are mind-blowing. This is already a guy

who we could say is a high level climber

and to see like the before and after is

crazy. So, you don't always have to kill

yourself to adapt in really really

interesting ways.

>> And that's something I've really really

benefited from. But the low back has

been a limiter, right, for like the last

few months

>> because hanging from a bar, if I don't

engage the abs, it could cause some

issues with the low back and spasming.

>> So, I bought this thing recommended by a

friend of mine, Nick Norris, who's also

been on the podcast, former Navy Seal,

called the Nug. And the Nug is it's

about the size of like a gigantic bar of

soap. It's a piece of wood, and it has

different depths of grips on it. It's

like 25 millimeters, 20 millimeters, and

you can move it around really easily.

And basically, like you could keep it in

a jacket pocket. And as long as you have

a carabiner, like one of those things

that kind of clicks on,

>> you you can do all sorts of exercises

while you're traveling.

>> And at home, I have basically [snorts] a

>> a plate loading pin that you can load

plates on. Yeah, exactly. So that you

can basically do like a singlehanded

deadlift. And so this is the same as

essentially doing the hanging board.

>> It's it's similar, right? You're going

to be I'm looking for the same kind of

loading. But what you can also do is

take this thing that you can fit in your

pocket and attach it to like a low cable

machine. That's what I was doing in

Santa Fe, actually.

>> Oh, that's cool.

>> And just like get the weight off the

ground, you know, the stack off of the

resting position. And then I was doing

10 seconds on, 50 seconds off. 10

seconds on, 50 seconds.

>> And you only have one of these?

>> Yeah, because I'll do one hand and then

I'll do the other. like 10 seconds, 10

seconds, 40 second rest. 10 seconds, 10

seconds, 40 second rest.

>> And I think a lot Yeah. the the website

is fictitious climbing. It doesn't

exactly roll off the tongue, but like

friction, fictitious climbing. They have

the nug. They have a bunch of other

items that you can use while traveling

for this, which are really, really

interesting. So, that's another one that

I've been traveling with. I'll let you

go and then

>> Yeah, this is awesome.

>> Yeah, it's it's just a fun little tool

to play with. Do not overdo finger

training. You do not want to tear a

pulley or something in your fingers. So,

less is more. Less is more. Less is

more. This is I guess something like 30

to 85% of body weight. Uh and if

obviously, or maybe it's not obvious, if

you're [clears throat] doing that's with

two hands. So, if you're doing it with

one hand, it's going to be, you know, 15

to 40%. That's amazing.

>> Well, this is cool. Thanks. I already

just ordered by the time you're done

talking about it.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's It's fun to play with.

>> Cool.

>> What you got?

>> Yeah. So, I've got a couple things. One,

I was hanging with Craig Mod in Japan.

And you've had Craig on the show before.

>> Craig, amazing. Amazing guy.

>> I don't think there's anybody that

understands like Japan the way that

Craig does, like in terms of the back

country and just like the little

artisans and all the stuff that he's

into. Craig has walked I probably fair

to say like thousands of miles of

different trails and pilgrimage paths in

Japan. He's

>> it's very likely he has walked more of

Japan on foot than any other person.

>> Yeah. So he was out here

>> visiting. He actually stayed in this

house for a week when he was out here in

LA. And I walked in and he's got all his

little toiletries like sitting out, you

know?

>> Yeah.

>> And I'm always like it's like sitting

out. He puts it all in Japanese order

where it's like got a little nice little

cloth and it's got like all this [ __ ]

like dresses like a Japanese person.

>> I know. I know. [laughter] I know. So, I

mean, he's lived it for 25 years, so

that kind of makes sense.

>> But I saw his toothbrush and I was like,

that is a dope looking toothbrush.

>> And I got you one.

>> Oh, wow. Look at this.

>> So, you can get these on Amazon. It's

got a really wide head. He said it's his

favorite Japanese toothbrush.

>> So, so for people who can't see it, it's

like the toothbrush bristles are almost

in a square, right? I mean, it's very

square like as opposed to being more

elongated. And so, you get three of

these for $11.50 on Amazon. And what

does it say in Japanese?

>> Premium care.

>> Premium premium care

>> from Premium Care.

>> Old Toaster here.

>> Premium buddy.

>> Hey, buddy. Like an old man toast.

>> I was just I was just saying hi to him

earlier. This is Toaster now 15. You

know, I was just saying to Daria that

the last time we did a podcast sitting

on a couch was at your place in San

Francisco back when Toaster was a puppy

and he chewed through the cable, the XLR

cables on the Zoom.

>> That's right, buddy.

>> Yeah. He [snorts] can't hear anything

anymore. And sadly, his his back legs

are falling out from underneath him now.

But

>> look at that. He's still a good dude.

>> I feel like you recognize me cuz I've

seen him so many times.

>> Oh, for sure.

>> Yeah.

>> What a sweetheart.

>> He's such a good boy.

>> So, yes. Premium care. Yes. Yes. I got

you one of those and like there's a

threeack for $1.50. I think it's great.

It's fantastic toothbrush.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Cool. I dig it. Thank you.

>> Speaking of all things Japanese.

>> Mhm.

>> So,

I

am hesitant to give this up. So, if you

want to get if you want to get a loan

stock, only one left.

>> Well, hold on. Let me tell you why. So,

first of all, check this out.

Check out this jacket.

Cool. All right. Oh, nice. You feel how

heavy that is.

>> Feels like a almost like a I know what

this is. I know what this is. So, this

is this is a fireman's jacket in Japan.

>> And this is a a heavy like dope

fireman's jacket. It's vintage.

>> Probably hard to rip.

>> Like the 1970s.

>> Oh, wow.

>> And so I found a store on Etsy. How did

you even think to look for this? Because

I love this style of jacket.

>> Fireman vintage Japanese fireman jacket.

I just typed in like Japanese jacket on

Etsy. And so this importer

>> Yeah.

>> they import like the coolest [snorts]

vintage Japanese

>> everything from jackets to

like you know how they used to do that

patch mill kind of work where they take

stuff they would like patch quilts out

of out of old material. Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, like everything from like

little tiny shrines to wicker baskets.

Like, dude, check out the store. Let me

just show you the store real quick. And

the only reason I'm plugging it is in

vintage Japanese indigo dyed Kindo

jacket.

>> So, they got all the little dolls.

They've got Look at these different

types of indigo dyed kind of blankets.

And

>> so, what's what's the seller?

>> The the seller is just an importer from

Japan. Exporter. No, I will.

>> So, he Well, here's the deal. It's so

inexpensive. Like in the States, if you

were to buy this jacket from a a

designer called Vizom, which is like a

well-known Japanese designer, this style

of jacket would be Gosh, I mean, it

would probably be $2,500.

>> Wow.

>> For that jacket,

>> more expensive than my car.

>> They No, it's [laughter] not. They they

sell these jackets on there for Here's

one for $92. Like, look at this vintage

1960s jacket. $92.

>> Oh, that's cool. Oh, watch out, buddy.

>> Okay, bud. He's kind of needs a little

help. I don't think you're ready for

this slackboard, my friend.

>> Yeah, there you go.

>> Okay. I know. I know. I mean, that

jacket's do Oh, but I just wanted to

give this out there because I I think if

you're looking to buy vintage fun things

in You can't score.

>> I know. I know. I know. I'm being an

idiot.

>> If you're looking for just various

objects around your house that are

vintage from Japan, this place is

insanely inexpensive for all different

types of things.

>> Blue Heritage Japan.

>> Yeah. So, the the Etsy name is Blue

Heritage Japan.

>> 4.9 stars, thousands of reviews.

>> But look at some of the stuff.

>> Yeah, that's cool. These kind of hanging

tapestries for stores and stuff. Those

are [clears throat] fun.

>> Anyway, I just thought it was kind of a

fun shop that and you know it's legit

cuz it when you get the package, it's

actually like it's shipped directly from

Japan. Yeah.

>> Like often times you'll find some of

these places that make like a Japanese

style jacket and then you find a little

tag says made in China on the the inside

of it or something, you know. So anyway,

look at this farmer's washi paper

basket. But like wouldn't that be cool

to have in your house sitting around

somewhere? I mean, like that's just

awesome.

>> Yeah, I guess these guys are based in

Canada. Looks like

>> Oh, no. Just cuz I'm that logged into

the Canadian store.

>> The Canadian store?

>> I don't know. I was I was on uh VPN.

[laughter]

>> I better close those porn brows.

>> No, I was I was in Japan and they were

firewalling me off of some stuff and so

I had to use VPN.

>> Yeah. I'm being dead serious. I'm being

dead serious. It wasn't boring, dude.

[laughter]

No, don't protest too much. All right.

Should I hop in?

>> Yeah. Go ahead.

>> All right. Cool. So, I want to recommend

some podcasts for people and these are

two that I continue to revisit. One is a

is a miniseries by 99% Invisible, one of

the OGs, Roman Mars, and he's got some

co-hosts. It is a series on the power

broker. So the power broker by Robert

Carrow won the Pulitzer Prize in 1975.

It's a biography of Robert Moses who

basically shaped modern New York. And

this book is considered the

quintessential

book to read if you want to understand

state and local politics especially

power wielding in New York.

>> And

it is it's a legendary book. It's 1,200

pages. I've never made it through. I've

never even really put a dent in it. And

then what 99% Invisible does, they walk

you through the whole book and kind of

give you their highlights. They

interview Robert Carroll himself, who

got to meet Robert Moses multiple times,

>> and they have guest appearances by

people like Conan O'Brien, who's a huge

Robert Caro and Power Ber fan. It's a

wonderful series, and I think there are

12 parts. I had listened to it ages ago,

but they only had three episodes out and

then I just petered out because I didn't

want to wait months for the next one to

come out. Now they have the full 12. So

that's one. And then the other one is a

podcast called STEM Talk. And if I want

to find interesting scientists doing

things that I think I might be able to

apply to my life or the lives of loved

ones and certainly there's a lot of

stuff that's out on the edges that is

not yet ready for any clinical

applications. STEM talk is just

incredible. And my latest discovery

there is an a really fascinating

scientist named Dr. Francisco Gonzalez

Lima who's at UT Austin. One of the many

reasons I'm interested in his research

is that he has a a very different view

on neurodeenerative diseases like

Alzheimer's

>> and thinks as I do that people

underweight and researchers underweight

just how critical or how you might think

of Alzheimer's as a vascular disease

>> and including mitochondrial dysfunction.

And the more I dig into this, the less

compelling I find kind of amaloid plaque

like amaloid beta plaque amaloid beta

plaque

>> for for for a whole host of reasons.

>> It's pretty widely accepted now that

that is a byproduct of something gone

wrong and not the cause of it. Right.

>> I do think a lot of doctors and

scientists would view it as a byproduct.

Nonetheless, a lot of the treatment

options like denotamab infusions or

otherwise are focused on removing

plaque, right? But you can remove a lot

of plaque assuming it doesn't kill

people because there are risks and stuff

and you may not see any change in

cognition whatsoever.

>> What do you think of the Bretson

protocol?

>> Dale Bredson I I I don't know much about

Dale. So you could illuminate me. Let's

get to that in a second.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead.

>> But what I have seen, let's just say in

the case of some of my relatives, I've

got three relatives with Alzheimer's

right now. one who's disintegrating very

quickly, one who's in hospice, and

another who's sort of in the the early

but rapidly advancing stages. And if I

give I gave one of them actually the

exact same ketone that I had before we

sat down

only 10 grams cuz I didn't want to risk

them getting dizzy, which can be a

byproduct and falling. But I gave them

10 or 15 grams and within 20 minutes,

longer sentences, faster speech. This is

someone who is giving like one word,

two-word responses, and that lasted for

about an hour, hour and a half.

>> So, if plaques, even if we're talking

about tow and so on, if those were

solely responsible, that shouldn't work,

>> right? But I don't want to be dosing my

family with ketones constantly for a lot

of reasons. It's like, okay, well, what

else can we do?

>> And this Dr. Dr. Gonzalez Lima has

looked at lowdose methylane blue

>> and also photobiomodulation

using lasers or LEDs like right on in

most cases the right prefal cortex.

>> By the way, do you know that they're

selling methane blue on freaking Amazon

now?

>> That's scary.

>> I know they didn't used to because they

were scared to do it. Now there are

supplement companies that are selling

straight up methane blue on Amazon.

>> Scary. Yeah. Although the safety profile

like it's been used for a very long

time.

>> Yeah. It's got like 120 years of

research. But if you overshoot the

therapeutic window like you can [ __ ]

yourself up.

>> Yes.

>> So in this case it's low dose ideally

plus photobiomodulation

and you're hitting

two aspects of the electron transport

chain that should be synergistic for

mitochondrial function and also glucose

metabolism.

So that's really got my attention right

now. Dude, look at this on Amazon.

Look at this guy drinking a big picture

of it.

>> Guys drinking a like a shaker bottle

full of methylene blue

>> with the goldfish. Oh,

>> you know methylene blue is what they

used for fish tanks, right? To to color

the water blue.

>> Is it?

>> Yeah. They were using it in fish tanks.

>> Well, if it's good enough for the fish

tanks, I guess.

>> Be careful.

>> Yeah. Look, look at here. It is general

disease prevention for fish.

>> Prevention. Oh, you know, if it works

for fish,

>> this pet store has figured it out.

>> Yeah, exactly. Be very careful, folks.

>> Yes. If you overdo, this is true for a

lot of things. You basically have

a response curve where a hormetic dose

like a very small amount is good for

you. Kind of like Ian powder in Princess

Bride or it helps with immune function

and so on. Right? If you take too much

has the opposite effect. So you you

could I believe I don't I don't think

I'm getting this wrong

handicap your mitochondrial function by

taking too much. Dude, look at this. 15

milligs of methylene blue with 75

milligs of vitamin C neuropro. I'm not

recommending this. This just went on

Amazon.

>> It's all over Amazon. God, that's

terrifying.

>> What would be considered a micro dose in

your opinion?

>> I'd have to go back and look at his

actual research. People should listen to

the STEM talk episode with pictures

somebody put in her purse like

>> like an epipen. I'll just take this to

go to blue. By the way, the comments I I

It's so funny you got on this because

literally two days ago I was in here

reading the comments and they're like,

"I'm peeing blue now." Like you pee

blue.

>> You do pee blue. And that's actually a

way individually that you can begin to

identify your

customized dose. At what point you

shouldn't be peeing blue.

>> No, at what point you go from blue to

clear. you can figure out basically what

they're probably using not

>> exactly the correct terms but figure out

what the halfife is in your body

>> so that you're dosing at the right

interval

>> they call this bro science by the way

but two guys that don't have

>> well I mean I I am pretty closely

[laughter] echoing yes it is bro science

but but it's it's bro science with

citations

>> meaning like don't trust exactly what

I'm saying but go listen to the episode

and read his research

>> dude look at this

>> methylene blue gummies for

>> they're selling like gummies Now methane

blue.

>> Terrifying.

>> Anyway, just because it's a supplement

doesn't make it safe, folks.

>> Amen.

>> Yeah. Hemlock all natural. Turns out

shouldn't have too much of it.

>> Hemlock.

>> Yeah. Killed Socrates.

>> Oh, yeah. That's right.

>> Yeah. So, it's just like arsenic. All

natural. Don't go take a shaker bottle

full of arsenic.

>> Yeah.

>> So, yeah. Be careful out there, kids.

But that definitely has my attention

right now because I I think about say

parental risk. You know, my my mom's

cognition is slipping, but she's APOE

33. Her APOE al profile is 33. I'm 34.

My brother's 34, which means we got the

four from my dad. He's sharp as attack.

He's incredibly sharp and he's older

than my mom. So, it's like, all right,

they both have metabolic dysfunction, so

that's kind of equalized, right? Like

they're fasting glucose and all that's

terrible.

>> It's like, what's going on? Well, you do

inherit mitochondria from your mom and

mitochondria very big deal.

So, I'm looking at different levers that

I might experiment with in my mom that

could also potentially be applied

preventatively

>> in me and my brother.

>> Yeah. So, so the the Dale Bredesen

protocol is is pretty awesome. He wrote

a book about six or seven years ago.

Maybe it's closer to 10. Am I right?

>> Exactly. That's all all it is. uh which

you tried for the first time today.

>> Oh Jesus.

>> Yeah.

>> Well was exactly that but yeah. Um so

the one thing I like about it's called

the end of Alzheimer's is the name of

his book is that he is

>> understated. Yeah. Exactly. It's won't

sell many copies with that title. But

what he came up with is he said okay

listen the what we're seeing in the

brain is the byproduct of something

going hair wire. It's either bloodb

brain barrier breaking down allowing bad

[ __ ] in. It could be bacteria. It could

be like a whole slew of different

things.

It it could be like you said an issue

with blood flow and it could be what did

you call it vascular type issue and he

thinks it's like three or four he thinks

it's either

>> vascular which sauna other things like

that help with

>> cocovia like other ways to make sure

that you have vascular health obviously

the mitochondria thing is another one

that he's huge on

>> and then he also thinks it's it could be

toxin related as well

>> sure like and and talking about how to

get those toxins out of your body. But

his protocol is that very common sense.

It's like

>> what is it?

>> It is essentially a handful of

supplements which are all the ones that

you've basically talked about

>> along with it's like a lightweight keto.

So just making sure you go into

lightweight ketosis

>> like 5 days a week.

>> And then you know obviously no sugar, no

refined carbohydrates, like eliminating

all that [ __ ] Turns out exercise like

intense exercise is very important. Mhm.

>> And he's shown now over the course of a

decade that he's taken people actually

you know Kelly Boyce who we were on the

>> retreat with she's an awesome meditation

she teaches something this form of

relaxing yoga but yeah as an aside

>> her father I think it should be okay for

me sh double check but her father had

mild cognitive impairment 10 years ago

and they were of course really worried

they put them on the Dale Bredesen

protocol and he's scoring better now

than he was when he first took the test

>> 10 years later.

>> Yeah.

>> And she's like, "Yeah, he still has

issues like here and there, but he's

like, you know, I guess in his 80s now

or something." And it's like, but that

is that's what you want. Like even if we

can say, "Okay, my cognitive impairment

is progressing." Like my mom is in this

situation. She can't tell you what she

had for breakfast,

>> but thankfully she doesn't have

Alzheimer's. She has some form of

dementia. She remembers me, kids names,

stuff like that. the important things.

She would have a hard time telling you

what name my dog is. Like there's little

things that slide through the cracks.

She's and sadly really overweight, you

know, didn't really want to do that. But

the point is if we can see this stuff

early enough where they you still have

enough of your wits about you to take

action cuz compliance is huge as you

know like how hard is it to get your

family members to go do highintensity

like exercise?

>> Yeah. Can I pause for a sec? Yeah. So

that's part of the reason why the the

methylene blue and the

photobiomodulation is so interesting

because for instance there's a device

that is actually worth investigating on

some levels called the cognto device.

It's a headset. It was developed by

scientists out of MIT and it's 40 hertz

I believe both visual and auditory

stimulation in reesus monkeys pretty

recently in the last year they showed a

lot of plaque clearance enhanced by

this. Right. That's still, if I'm

understanding correctly, people fact

check this, but that's still predicated

on the theory of disease for Alzheimer's

that by removing plaque, you get

clinical outcomes, right?

>> The photobiomodulation. Well, let me

before I get to that,

>> as I understand it, this is an hour a

day

>> of wearing this device on your head.

>> My mom's not going to do that. There's

no [ __ ] way. Right.

>> Right. Nor any of my relatives. However,

the photobiomodulation, it's like 8 to

10 minutes, right? Laser or LED. LED is

a little harder to make.

>> Do you have to go in to do that or can

you get a device that doesn't

>> I'm going to buy a device and I'm not

recommending people do that. You can

really damage your eyes with lasers and

so on. But right now, it's not like you

can go to a clinic and be like, "Hey,

I'd like to have this treatment." Just

doesn't exist. So, let me be the guinea

pig before anybody does anything. But

you get this device and it's I'm sure

it's going to be very expensive, right?

Some of these lasers like there's like

$30,000,

but

8 minutes, 8 to 10 minutes and you you

can see even after a single session, you

can see multiple weeks of effects.

>> H crazy. And so it it just sits right on

top of it into the eye or on top of

>> Well, there are devices that go through

the eyes, but this one, what makes it so

mystifying in a way for me is that it's

it's actually pointed at the forehead as

an infrared laser. It's so fascinating.

>> Wow.

>> And there's peer-reviewed published

studies on this, which you can find,

anybody who looks up Gonzalz Lima will

will find it. So, it's exciting. It's

super exciting because there's certain

things like I know that my mitochondria

are funky, right? And I I know that

through different types of endurance

testing,

different types of obviously all sorts

of stuff done through doctors and tests

and blah blah blah blah. There's

something funky with the mitochondria.

And I'm like, okay, well, let's try to

get ahead of that.

>> Yeah. And actually related to that to

invoke, I said she would come back.

Rhonda Patrick also, you know, was

texting with her at one point because I

was listening to STEM talk, that podcast

I mentioned, and I came across a

scientist discussing something called

eurolithn.

>> Of course, it might appear.

>> Yeah, might appear. And two years ago,

maybe it was two years ago, like she was

pretty bearish on it, but there's a lot

of new research, or I shouldn't say a

lot, there's new research has come out.

And also met with a couple of biotech

people in Boston who are very respected.

I'm not going to dox them cuz I don't

want to. But they

>> basically did this like comprehensive

analysis and landed on three or four

things and one of them was your litha.

>> Right. I take 300 milligrams a day.

>> 300. How do you How did you choose 300

milligrams?

>> Because that's what all the studies are

are done on. Or no, sorry. Five. So 500

to,000. I take 500 milligrams a day.

>> Yeah.

>> Clearly I need to be taking higher

[laughter] dose.

>> I've only been doing 3 months to see

some results. So bear with me people. I