just getting tired being tough was the

purpose of fighting

if I will end up not being able to fight

for the only person that I can fight

[Applause]

for heavyweight champion of the world I

was 13 years that I decided that I was

going to be a professional fighter but I

have no money we don't have shoes we

don't have food there's not a gym I have

to do something for that dream so I left

Cameron you need to get to Spain I was

reading that people died oh a lot and

you were drinking water that had dead

animals we had no choice I attempt in

the ocean I fell six times at trying to

climb the fence but B while it was the

toughest part why didn't you give up

when your dream is so big it's hard to

give up and the day that we arrive in

Paris I can start that dream to become a

war

Champion heavy in the world you left the

UFC because a disagreement with Dana

White what's the truth easy he didn't

want to and then you f an Joshua

honestly on that fight there was in lot

of unfairness what do you mean they have

a lot of tricks do you think they were

doing that intentionally yeah it was so

messy and then life shows how cruel it's

capable of

being when my boy pass away now was a

moment that I really feel like a

failure have you been able to

[Music]

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subscribers Francis we met in a hotel

room in Paris MH it was me you tiar omry

and chy and several other people and um

I knew you from TV I'd watched you fight

but I had no

idea about your story and it's funny cuz

we all went around one at a time tierry

me um and then you and shared our early

story and when we came to your story I

just couldn't believe it was true I

couldn't believe it was true really of

of course I'd never heard and I sit here

and interview people for a living I've

never in my life heard a story like that

from where you started to where you

ultimately ended up and I know you've

told it before to some people

but I have to start there because

because it I think it creates the

context of everything that you are today

and the man that sits in front of me so

if you take me back to West

Cameroon in

1986 yeah what would I see what was your

childhood

like um I think you will see two parents

that are just

struggling um making it a dad who was a

carpenter and then a mom that really

didn't have job and then at some point

she she was doing whatever she find

whether it's like selling uh cook some

stuff and sell in the in the trade so

that's that was it in back then back in

1986 the average person lives on $1,500

a year in West Cameron that's what I

read oh that's a lot oh really

$1,500 a year that's a lot of money how

much money were your family living on a

year a year oh definitely less than

that less than thousand for

sure and you're in a village of about

11,000 people yeah I mean yeah maybe

back then I think now we are over is

over 20 or 20,000 people or 30,000

people now I found some

pictures take a look at these pictures

what are these different pictures can

you describe them to me what they are oh

yeah those uh this is me and my mom in

our kitchen um yeah this was uh when I

won the UFC title uh and then I I said

it there on purpose like you know I've

been sitting in this kitchen since when

I was a kid so dreaming about boxing and

everything so I got to go out there from

this kitchen go out there get that belt

of a world champion and bring it back

and set it in that same kitchen and sit

in the same spot that I used to sit then

I'm like at the end of the day not only

everything is possible it's not such a

big deal you

know for anyone that can't see this cuz

they're listening on audio it with all

due respect it it looks like there's the

floor is mud and the walls are mud and

brick

yeah so looks like a m yes that's that's

how we build house because it's the less

cost you want because you make like a m

to make to make bricks with it's not

like a brick with sand and C it's just a

m so that's some it's like a mud hut

yeah and you're sat you're sat there on

the floor with with your mother no on

the floor on the chair on the I mean I

wouldn't call that a chair but it's a

piece of wood is a chair piece of wood

which is a chair you can sit in the

piece of wood

comfortable was this was this a happy

childhood

no um absolutely not but for some reason

um I think regardless of everything I

owe who I am today to my childhood you

know um as much as I hate my childhood

my childhood I was so mad so upset about

it since we didn't have the minimum the

minimum necessity like even like brush

uh toothbrush stuff like that you know

book to go to school even like a uh

petrol to put in the lamp and learn we

didn't have some time sometime like you

see the fire there right on the picture

the fire where we are cooking on the

wood sometime you're going to take your

book there and read it like this like so

this is just a fire you've made with a

bunch of wood and some rocks and you

would go and read by the that fire so

you could see your book yeah we cook uh

they put some food on top of a uh the

the bricks or the stone there to cook

and then meanwhile you're using the fire

the flame to to light up and read your

book sometime what made your childhood

so unhappy though what was it other than

the the difficulty the challenge of

everything uh as I say like we miss

everything uh

most of the time we a lot of time we

will be walking bare food because we

don't have shoes uh or we will be like

uh fixing shoes in 10 in Thousand Ways

you know to still have a shoes our pants

will be having holes all over uh and we

will still trying to do we will go to

school be embarrassed because uh maybe

sometime we don't have a pen or pencil

or notebook or Haven pay scholar fee and

they're going to um kick us out from the

classroom so all that stuff was

embarrassing not to mention like when

come a break time you don't have

something to eat uh unlik your um peers

the other kids you know you just around

on your own so it was a lot of thing

everything uh was a challenge and that's

why like when sometime I'm like you

people that are being very comfortable

never being in the struggle I'm like oh

money doesn't make happiness money blah

blah blah I'm like give me the money and

then keep the

happiness because I have been without

money and I know what it feels like all

day long I prefer being with

money you really describing the

comparison that causes the unhappiness

between yourself your family who you

guys were and the other kids yes

absolutely I mean how many time do I get

sick and didn't have a peer couldn't

even go to the hospital we couldn't even

have a PE from around uh the street a

pill yeah and then you're just home sick

like this hoping having some prayers

maybe luckily sometime go in the bush

and find some um

REM uh to cook and hopefully that he

works but you can't afford what were you

eating during that time when you didn't

have the money Farm um corns beans

peanut uh stuff like that yum uh

casava um

veggies stuff like that is there a

moment you look back on your childhood

and think that was the worst Moment For

Me growing up just a memory or something

that happened that you thought this was

really the the bottom for me I would not

say the bottom I mean regardless of

everything I think

um I was lucky and uh I think I was

gifted to be able to handle that that a

proper way you know uh when I look at it

today I'm impressed of the way that I

handle it and uh even without knowing

where that would lead me where I was

going with that I just handled it like

find a way out but I never like feel

like in a bottom you know in fact like

one of my biggest motivation came out of

that situation like uh I was around 13

years old and he was someday around 300

p.m. they kick me out of the classroom

one more time and I think that day I was

pissed I was very pissed like almost

crying like okay what the hell is this

like what do I do to to deserve this

like why is this so unfair you know uh

and then the look of the other kids on

me and didn't stand that either you know

then therefore I uh it was now a

challenge I promised myself that I going

to change that I going to prove them

it's not my fault I was just a child

just as them uh which doesn't have the

same opportunity as them just we

couldn't have a parent that can provide

for them but in fact the minimum that I

had wish wasn't enough was

um something that I work for I earned I

know the value of it and even though you

have more they have more than me they

didn't earn it you know they they they

give it to them but they didn't earn it

I started I started to work in the s San

Quarry I was uh 9 years old so which was

a sand mine yeah sand mine and what you

doing you're you're using a shovel to

pick up sand and pick sand or di dick

sand in on the mountain um so I mean I

know that I get to realize that even

though I have less I work for those less

and I work hard for those that and even

though they have more they don't really

know the value of what they have so in

fact I'm not beneath them in fact I'm

quite Superior why were you kicked out

of the classroom that

day uh when you were 13 he was I think

he was uh scholarship that that exact

same day I think was scholarship uh the

fee The Scholar fee oh okay so you

kicked out of school because you didn't

have the money yeah because I haven't

paid the annual fee I haven't complete

the annual fee and uh yes that day he

was it but you know he was the same

thing over on over this year next year

the year after and uh that day I think

it was a signal and I'm like this is

going to change and um but the problem

now um I was was in the situation that I

needed to do more than others to to be

noticed you know I was I wanted to prove

them that that's no the the perception

that they have on of on of me is not who

I am I'm better than that and

uh yeah so I was 13 years and that's the

day that I decided that I was going to

be a professional fighter a professional

boxer it was the day that I really

decided growing up I want like karate I

want this I want that but I get to the

point that I want something that not

only will be my passion but at the same

time will provide for me and help me to

provide for my family as well and then I

come across like okay boxing combat

sport is the thing to do but problem I'm

13 years old there's not um there is not

a gym in um 50 Kil 50 miles uh radius

and uh I haven't I never see a gym you

know I never saw a gym before then and

even after that time I think I stayed in

the village until I was 22 was the

moment that I'm like okay enough is

enough I can just be dreaming I have to

take action I have to do something for

that dream then I leave the village I I

moved to the city I mov to some place

that I don't know and then just like

sell everything that I have to start

boxing and I was 22 at that time I've

heard you say as well about your father

my whole life my father was the example

for me of what not to do yeah I think

that's the best thing that ever happened

to me because if my dad wasn't what he

was I could have been what he was but I

still love him a

lot yeah because again like from my

perspective

um he is the person that affected my

life the most he was

violent and then I happened but he

wasn't capable of

uh canalyzing his energy his strength or

no how to use it then maybe

if they have a argument or something

usually at time people was fighting a

lot but he was Stronger so he basically

end up beating

other people so makes the them the

victim and him the guilty right so and

then he has a reputation because when

you get into so many

fight uh in the in the hood and you and

you're winning any fight so you're just

a bad guy you know so it has that

reputation uh from people don't really

like his behavior and then

uh that's something that I understand

really quick and then who have affected

me I didn't want to have that reputation

although I like everything uh that

related with power I was very into it

but I'm like no no way they are talking

to me about my dad basically like the

divorced I was 6 years old so I started

go live with my ants and this and

everywhere they would be like yes you

just yeah he's doing like his father

he's must be like his father stuff like

that and he pisses me off like so bad

like I don't want to be have that

reputation even though I like everything

with strin power fighting you know then

that's how like I ended up find those

boxing combat sport stuff he was the

right thing to do because there was a

rules there was a rules he was organized

and everything was right to do and he

wouldn't affect your reputation when you

get into a boxing mat match or character

fight you win you're a winner they

celebrate you they don't blame you from

beating somebody he was a violent man

outside of the home but also inside the

home yeah little bit to you and your

mother we will get some we will get some

Spain I mean in Africa uh at that time

that's kind of uh thing was happening a

lot into a lot of fames so he wasn't

something nowadays things a little

different but he wasn't something that

was very different you know just so he

was kind of like strict straight guy

yeah was he violent towards your mother

uh sometimes sometime it could

happen he passed away when you were 15

years old yeah it

did how how did that impact you at 15

when he passed

away uh you know no he

wasn't

um he wasn't a big part of my life at

that at time

um but yeah you get affect you think

about like your dad and the fact that

you will never see him again you know

time to time for months you think I am

like man so this is it and yeah he

affected you a lot I mean you're hurt

but you just have to keep rolling

when he passed away he couldn't afford

to go to the hospital yeah he was sick

he was at home for months sick uh just

stay in bed uh couldn't even go out to

the toilet on his own anything he has

one leg that was get

uh

rotten and was just there like that

until he Di and that was something that

I look at it I'm like man I think I need

to do something something I need to take

action because this kind of thing might

happen uh again in the future or in my

to my mom or to somebody close and I

won't be I will be powerless and uh no

doesn't have to be like this you know so

that was one of the reason like just

being sick be at home on to die maybe we

could have saved him if we have money

maybe he could have still be alive if he

could have go to the hospital but nobody

knows and nobody will ever

know a couple of

years after I was looking at my mom and

I asked myself if she ever got sick what

would I do and it scared the hell out of

me at that point I knew I had to do

something to at least be able to provide

her some decent

healthare I always wonder what it would

be like if my dad was still alive today

I wish I can have him in my life today

even just for a day

yeah well

uh after my d uh passed away and then I

think that was also a shock of our

situation I realized I mean I was 15 by

the time I know that our situation

wasn't good we W living in a good

condition but that was like a eye

opening like okay this how bad it is he

didn't go to the hospital for months I

was going there time to time and he was

suffering in pain and everything it

didn't go to the hospital and uh even

when he passed away I could have I keept

having nightmares of seeing him like in

pain screaming at night stuff like that

and I'm like this not happening again

bro

like he was tough right so uh

um now that was not only like I was

thinking that uh when I grow up I have a

family and I want to provide them uh

provide to them and then get them in a

good situation in a better condition but

that was like okay this something that

can happen again what would you do it

could be yes it could be your mom it

could be one of your siblings or it

could some day be your own kid what will

you do like just sit there and no I need

to do something

so that's I I took actions you know and

then uh yeah in the other hands seeing

where we were when my dad passed

away I always wonder like what would it

be like if he was

around if he could turn around and see

us what would he say like how would he

feel I mean he always uh and I miss

those moment that I I replicate uh our

family a lot you know growing up we

never have to eat in the dining table

like this we didn't have a dining table

um but uh for the past year I've been

replicating that like I will have we

have nice house with table dining tables

and sometime I will get there and then

regroup everybody in the table and then

even though I don't speak I look at that

table and know that somebody is missing

there's one person missing you know who

could have be the to to to make that a

perfect T you know even though it's

quite uh enjoyful to be with those who

are there it's still like a blessing to

have them um but it's still sad not to

have one person

there you start dreaming at that very

young age you start dreaming of a

different life and I was reading that

you were pretty obsessed with

America you were signing your signature

San Francisco not like obsessed I love

America I always love America like since

I I uh I name myself American boy I name

I give myself a nickname of American Boy

when you were young yeah like kids

around will call will call me American

boy because I tell them that's my name

and at 17 you said that you left that

small town is it called Betty betti yes

the village that's the V that you left

and you um you moved to a different town

mhm you went to Cameron's largest city

where you started boxing City yes

Dua why did you leave he wasn't at 17 at

17 I left

uh I abandoned school because I couldn't

continue ah okay so you left school at

22 okay so 22 you decided you wanted to

move City yeah had you ever been to a

gym before before when was the first age

you went to a gym

uh a boxing gym yeah kind of 22 22 yeah

when I left the village to go find one

um why did you end up leaving Cameroon

and what age was it when you left

Cameroon I left Cameroon I was around um

I was 26 around 26 when I left Cameron

why did you leave well I knew that I

couldn't make it there uh as a boxer

because I started boxing and I know that

reality there I know the truth even

before I started boxing I I knew the

reality I knew that uh it can happen

there you know I need a big stage I need

somewhere that

um there's more boxing is well developed

uh where did you want to

go first he was always

America but uh from Cameron there wasn't

a way to come to America I wasn't going

to swim to the uh Atlantic

Ocean so the easiest way

the more Payway was to go to Europe so

April the 3D you're 25 26 years old um

2012 which doesn't feel like it was that

long ago 2012 is when I left it was 2012

yeah that's when I left that's when I

left my secondary school and at that

time you leaving Cameroon yes and you're

objective was you were going to try and

get to to Spain or get to Europe yes so

you were going to walk from Cameroon to

Europe uh it wasn't work I mean from

camaron uh I was in Dua I took a bus to

Y then I took a train to the train to

North camon and then we took like a we

started take like a um um how do they

call CL

l no no no small car that you know they

know how to avoid police uh uh station

and all those stuff on the road so

that's how we get from Cameron North

Cameroon to Yola in Nigeria and

then Yola to Cano and then Cano

Niger and so you traveled from Cameroon

to Nigeria to n to Algeria to Morocco to

Morocco yeah and then

how did you get through the Sahara

Desert uh he were we we were lucky uh

our group didn't have so much of a

trouble um even though it was 25 of us

in the back of a pickup

truck yeah but uh we made it the truck

didn't broke up uh we get it out there

safe people died

going oh a lot like uh all the way you

will see like sket around skeletons

skelet is in the desert and just look

other way other way like no You' see

skeletons and look away yeah how how do

you afford where does the money come

from to get go on this journey to get

out of Cameroon and to try and get to

Europe cuz it must cost money yeah from

the beginning um the beginning is not so

hard uh because it's something that you

prepare for for years you don't just

wake up one day and go like this you

prepare for you don't know how much you

need but you know that the much that you

can have you you can use it to go you

know so I have some savings that I've

been saving saving for a little

while I took some with me and I give

gave some to my little sister to keep it

ready in case I call because I didn't

know where I was going and then we have

heard that there's a lot of smugger

Smuggler uh on the way so you better

don't carry what all your money on your

on you so as much as you're going you're

going to call and then they will send

money uh until it's over and then you

start to figure out on your own what is

the you say it so casually but what is

the reality of that of that Journey you

know I was reading that you were

drinking at times drinking water that

had dead dead animals inside the water

yeah when we first crossed the desert uh

we get to South Algeria um in a tamaras

set we found a water well and it was

almost dry and there was a little water

that was there for I think for months

there was death animal and all the uh

leaves everything was inside the water

but um

we were so dehydrated because our water

in finished in the desert like hours ago

so at time the water didn't look good at

all it was pretty bad but I think the

philosophy right here was like okay

whether I drink the water and if he has

to kill me he kill me later or I just

die now by dehydration I think when

that's the only two Choice it's easy to

choose one

die now or die a little

[Laughter]

later what does all of this this

experience do to you as a man in terms

of your your resilience and attitude

towards life you probably don't even

know because you just are the way that

you are but you must see that you're

different from other people in the

Western

World I think in general in Africa we

are quite different uh to um the Western

World um we we have more not that in the

Western World people don't have hardship

but we

have mostly most of us we have hardship

and toughest one for the most part you

know um like because in the Western

World you will not see it's it's not

very often that you will see kid that

that have experiment uh famine you know

like uh going to to sleep without eating

or something

I think the S the is the West is more

designed to stay away of those kind of

trouble you might not have home but you

can still have something to eat but in

Africa um most people they will not even

have that and then um the good thing and

I think the different that I found so

far is that in Africa you know from your

early age that you are not counting on

not body you are not expecting anything

from anybody it's all on you and as long

as you get that the rest of your life

get

better because you go out there and

figure it out but you go in a lot of

Western Country and

then even though coming from where you

come from uh you see that there's a lot

of opportunity and people are still

there sitting complaining we don't have

this this should be like that it should

be like that you'll be like man this is

like more than all what I need you know

because you at the point that you don't

need you don't just need what can be

given to you what will be given to you

is just a way is uh a what could be

given to you is just a way for you to uh

a preach to help you get where you're

going because you have set um your goal

Way Beyond what you you can get you how

long does it take you to get across the

Sahara Desert across the Sahara Desert

itself it took uh one day we didn't stay

our uh again we were lucky our car

didn't broke up so they drove for about

I think 20 or 22 hours and eventually

you get to

Morocco and Morocco from Morocco you

need to get to Spain which is difficult

that was the toughest part I spent

almost one year in Morocco trying to get

to Spain yeah trying to get to Spain I

did a lot of attempt uh in the in the

water and also in the in the fences when

you were living in Morocco where were

you

staying wherever you find in the desert

uh in the forest uh it depend on like

what you're looking for you you know for

example if you want to go to the fence

try the fence to escalate the fence um

which is in

Mia for the most part then you have to

stay in the forest of gurugu it's like

living in the forest between trees you

know and then you HT what are you

eating what you eating everything that

you find sometime uh there are people

that can make trap and try uh get some

animals but uh for the most part we will

wait nighttime to go to the market uh

because the police is always around you

know the on the cover police we will

wait for the night for night time go to

the market go to the market trash and

then find like rot rotten stuff like

that they throw away whether it's tomato

potatoes um chicken legs because they

didn't eat chicken legs was the best in

for us so we will find stuff like that

in the trash and go back in the forest

and try to make a meal how we don't have

money were you try at that time were you

trying to figure out learn how to get to

Europe were you trying to learn the best

way because I can't imagine or did

someone tell you how to get to Europe

there's a lot of people there that is

trying to do the same thing it's not

just you you left your house by

yourself but by the time you get to some

point you start meet people that are in

the same journey and by the time you get

in Morocco there's a lot hundreds of

people are you training at the time are

you trying to stay fit yeah sometime in

the forest I mean you have nothing to do

you do pushup you do some apps but

otherwise what would you

do and you were still dreaming of being

a boxer even though you were oh yes that

was that was the thing

I mean that was my motivation I think if

he wasn't about that I wouldn't have

left my

country he was just about

that I did I never thought about

anything

else so that was the reason where I left

how did you how did you know you'd be

good at it I didn't

know but he was about to find out I

didn't know at all I had no idea I I

could have be very bad I could have be

good

so he was just about to give it a try

and if it doesn't work then at least a

try you know I think is the is the most

important thing is to try and give it

all and if it doesn't work then well we

reset you there's two ways to get to

Spain you can go over the wall or you

can go across the water through the sea

yeah and across the water could be very

dangerous dangerous and difficult

sometime I

try couple times did you try the wo yeah

the bobbed Wire yeah I Tred the Bob I

have a lot of scar on me a lot of Bob

wire scar on me really like those are BB

wies those you see my finger spit my

finger into like on my skin you will

find on my stomach here on my feet I F I

try I have a lot of that uh um I try to

I attempt in the ocean like uh six I

fell six time what happens when you you

try and go over the bbwi fence is it did

they catch you um where the the spot

that we picked because it's about like

12 or 14 miles of fence with B wire so

we will have like a Outlook guy that

will go walk around all the those uh

fence and then like trying to identify a

spot that there is not

too much bab wire or that the bab wire

has fell you know uh and when there's

not a lot guard because there's guard on

the Moroccan side and there's guard on

the spin side and some way there's like

three fences and then bab Wi on like

maybe the first one or the

two there's not a chance that unless you

can fly you cannot go there and it's

like 7 m High 7 m High 7 m high so it's

it's not possible with bab wies without

bab wies yeah that's good but and then

they clean the surrounded of the uh of

fences so the guy have to stay like far

from the distance to trying to identify

if there's a failure of bwire somewhere

you know so it's very difficult and uh

on there's a police a Moroccan on the

Moroccan side there's like a boxes of um

uh God mhm in like interval I don't know

maybe 20 M every 20 M there's a God 20

30 m there's a boxes of God sometimes

some boxes can be empty but from where

we are you don't see need somebody to go

there like a Weg every time read

everything monitor the um um uh all the

information you know like the the post

the the guard how theyve been um the

schedule yeah how they been changed

because it's permanent but one person

doesn't stay there 24 hours I think it's

like 8 hours so you you have when you

spotted a spot that there's not so much

bab then you'll be like okay there's a

Outlook very far there there's a Outlook

from the spin side very far and then

these boxes is there guard inside he

might take him days to just find if find

out if those boxes have God someday is

going to go by and then like wait they

can stay in the same spot for like 2

days just to wait and then when the

truck come uh comes to uh change uh ship

for the gods to change for the god to

shange shift and then he will see which

box have the God and which box does a

have and then what time they come and

this what time they go if they pray what

time they go to pray and he he you need

all those information before prepare a

attack and you prep eventually you

prepared an attack for the fence yeah

and sometime you prepare the attack

you see all those you collect all those

information then as you are getting

closer to the fence you realize that

there was a b wire you couldn't just see

from where you were at MH you know or

that maybe there's someone that is in

the floor they dig like 5 m long like

this wide and then they throw B wires

all the way then you you ran you ran by

uh maybe 30 m or 100 100 m m they can

see you coming they know that you're

coming now you are taking advantage on

like because you in a group of a people

and then you get closer and then you

find like 5 m back wire you can jump 5 m

it's not possible you know so so what

you do you run back what you run back or

some by the time you run back uh if it's

a group of you some people will fall in

the bow because they didn't see or maybe

you in the front line you see but you

can't go back because there are people a

mass behind you coming they just push

and then you fall inside the back wire

did you ever try and climb the fence and

did you get caught yeah I try to climb a

fence uh I get out of those B wires on

the floor once the only and that was the

time that I fell in the B wire I trying

to climb the fence but the bab on the

fence

was painful big like I was trying to

hold it and he was just catching my face

like like oh okay I

see like so and um I get to the point

that I'm like you know I rather be aive

without being in

Europe uh instead of being dead in

Europe like wait it's going to be

another

time it's not possible so you eventually

decide that you want to go via the see

in a boat you're going to try and take a

small little dingy yeah that was that

was um I mean even before I tried the B

wire the first thing that I tried it was

a boat and why did that not work I mean

it's not like the boat is a small

inflatable boat that you can use in your

swimming pool stuff that they use in the

swimming pool we call it dinghy you can

put it in the swimming pool you get it

in Walmart in Walmart yeah yeah exactly

so that's a you tried to cross from

Morocco to Spain in one of these small

inflatable boats um you couldn't swim no

I don't know how to swim but guess what

I ended up being a

captain captain of the what of the

boat because he's still need a captain

he still need somebody to organize

somebody that knows how to pattern

somebody know where we are going

somebody know how to organize like for

10 people to get in the same boat from

uh going from the ground to the ocean

and then like how do they they get all

those organization and then I I practice

I did it so many time that I become I

became an

expert so you and I still don't know how

to swim you tried six times to get

across mhm what happened in those six

times uh sometime we get

caught the majority of time we get

caught and what does that what happens

if you get caught they send you back to

the desert they send you back to the

desert yeah to the desert uh not to

Morocco no

you are in Morocco you get caught by the

Morocco guard yeah but then they just

bring you back to the city or something

no because um they have been financed to

protect uh people from a b they have

been financed uh by European union or

something like that from holding you

guys down there so every time that the

uh cash somebody they make a report of

that person uh that okay we C somebody

and then we send them back out of

Morocco they will just bring you to the

to Algeria Border in the desert and

throw you gu there and you will figure

out your way so they throw you back in

the desert without food every time you

got caught

yeah I mean it's pretty pretty horrible

um why he's alive and uh even till today

there's people out there still doing the

same thing and even though he's getting

harder and harder I don't know how they

do but I don't want to find out he

horrible so you would but then you you

went back again and tried again for a

seventh time why didn't you give up

you've tried defense the fense doesn't

work you've tried Crossing six times in

a small inflatable boat that doesn't

work why didn't you give up what for

give up go back to Cameroon maybe live

in what go back to

what didn't I get a job in cam in

Morocco

uh why couldn't I why shouldn't I try

again it was all about

trying and I think like when your dream

is so big when you have something it's

hard to give up you know like you get to

the point

that

you um you're capable of risking more

for Just a Dream which is something that

a normal person would not understand

like I just ask myself now like why

didn't I give up at that time why do I

keep doing this why did I take those

risk because there was a moment that

even now I think about it I'm like that

was stupid he was like a dead sentence

you just get lucky from coming out there

alive you know but I took those decision

your dream was so big that he um blinds

you you couldn't see any anything else

except what you have not what is in

front you couldn't see anything in front

of you except what you have in your mind

you could only see what is in your mind

and regardless what is in in front of

you what um the obstacle is in front of

you you can only see what in front of in

your mind and it could nothing could

stop you and what was that in your mind

that was pulling you

dream dream to make it to go have that

boxing you know uh that uh boxing

career um set up a stability for me and

my family and my potential kids so they

don't have to go to what I been through

you know so uh I knew that if I give up

I wouldn't be able to look at in myself

in the mirror like this he would have be

asham of to leave with myself I couldn't

leave with myself it was hot you thought

about it you think about like oh maybe

maybe there's not a way what for like

going back and then maybe some not

really have something to do and some day

you see your your child get sick and you

you feel powerless just as your parent

were to you I'm like no that's not

happening and then the seventh

attempt was

successful yeah take me take me to that

seventh attempt of getting across the

sea to get to Europe you you get in the

boat there's you and a couple of other

men you start paddling the sixth at the

sixth attempt was close to the winter

okay we get

caught and I was this close we were

already on the other side we get caught

by a uh Army it wasn't even like a um

um

uh

the I don't know how the the Coast Guard

he wasn't even the Coast Guard he was

the army with a big ship and they were

just passing by going

somewhere after 3 hours inside the ocean

we were paddling we knew that we are

getting there and then we get

caught back in Morocco they knew that we

are gone we made

it and then um at that time he was like

close to Winter the winter was coming

the water wasn't stable anymore we

couldn't attempt

anymore and for

me she was that I tell myself that the

day that I'm touching the ocean again

I'm not coming back

ever I don't know

exactly what I was with willing to do

but I'm like it's not happening this is

it you know my frustration was top to

the level

so we

uh we um recruit back in the forest

trying those try fences or just stay

there during the winter because the

water I mean yes you can try some crazy

stuff but only when you see that there's

an ounce of a chance but when you look

at the oceans the big mon monster rising

up with those waves you know that you

cannot go through there's no way no you

can't do that a small boat on a on a

small inflatable boat and it's cold it's

freezing so I think what was uh even

scary the most was the coal you would

just get frozen out there you know so I

stayed in the forest for like months uh

months and uh once when the U winter was

um by the touching the end I had a

friend that people he was in t t and

then he reached out to me he said I have

a I have a

ship let's go I couldn't leave Tang I

did everything I get to the bus station

and was so much police and this I didn't

want to end up in in the desert in USDA

I'm like okay

just and then the next day one one uh

the next day um we are running from the

police uh from 4:00 a.m. to like maybe

4:00 p.m. we came back to our spot I

open my phone I saw like 12 M

call I checked and then he was like

Ito made Ito was the guy that was

calling

me I'm like damn I could have been

making it too with them did they get

they got to Europe yeah they got to

Europe like bro come

on I couldn't sleep there anymore and I

have a lot of call and people was like

yes we want you to be our captain you

this that that that I'm like I'm going

you know and I didn't want any promises

like oh we going to do this buy a uh

boat in one week or no I have a guy that

we've been talking for a long time he

say I have a boat already I'm like let's

go so you get on a boat an inflatable

boat I heard that you wrapped yourself

in silver foil no no I didn't but um I

was planning um we put a life jacket

though we had the one thing that we are

very um straight about is a life jacket

yeah I didn't but because

over time you learn a lot of stuff and

you know that those silver for uh would

deviate radiation from like a you know

they have the red Rader yeah yeah yeah

so if you wear the silver then the the

radar can't find you yeah the radar can

find you he can see you because when the

radar is going like this and then he see

like uh I think it's infrared or

something and then he see movement he

like but when you have that se for you

they can see you so that time tell me

about this successful Journey you get in

the boat not you and a few other men

you're the captain no we didn't get in a

boat I went to rabber which there were

what's rabber a city okay there were I

went from uh NAD to Raba to meet them

like okay when are we going to Tang

because I've been in I've been in t i

I've been living in Tang for so long um

until winter that I went back to to NAD

so they are living in a Raba which is

kind of like a city and they have those

little job of construction I'm like when

are we going I meet them there and like

okay let's go I'm like oh we are still

working we're going to get paid on

Saturday and this is what when like I

think this was like Tuesday I'm like bro

I'm not staying here until Saturday bro

bro my blood was boiling

like I'm like man I miss this I could

have been making it with uh with it with

the other guy that called me so

we the the leader the the head guy of

the group he said okay then I'll go with

you uh because I was a captain I I need

to go and check the place and everything

say I'll go with you the rest of people

they can wait until we give everything

is good we give them uh sign so they can

come we move by the time we touch ground

we are stepping down of the bus in

Tangier I got sick I got a

fever and we are going to

this house inside mod we have to take

our shoes off walk inside mod to get

into this house to sleep something like

that and I was sick bro but I can't tell

anybody that I'm sick I'm the

captain and people saw me in t I'm like

wow this guy is here he's going to make

it he's not coming back so they trying

to bribe the the guy that I was to get

them in the in the group and you I'm

like no we collect the money together to

buy um to buy the boat so I can uh kick

take anybody out of it uh I'm like if uh

because they call me vam they say if

vanam is the captain you guys are not

coming back you're going to make it and

I was sick nobody

knows so long story short uh we've been

there for like couple days and I didn't

even have any money to

eat and then uh but I check internet

every day to check the weather the

weather to see how the ocean is and he

wasn't so was terrible and I found one

day I think was Tuesday and he was the

second April 2nd

2013 and I say this day is good because

this is the speed of the wind this is

the uh direction of the wind this this I

know that thing I don't know how I know

it but by the time I knew it properly I

was a

captain so I say tell your guy to come

this day because we uh because we are

leaving by the time they come with the

boat we are not sleeping here with the

boat we have to just be going with the

boat because it's a very even the police

when they like uh bust into houses they

will search for that mhm and they came

we get to the to the to where we were

going next to where we were going but

the police car was up there so we

couldn't inflate here and then put the

raffle inside the ocean without them

seeing us now we have to make a

detour all night long we make a detour

to go somewhere in the

front and uh even though I was sick

usually Captain you don't carry stuff

because they protect

you for the big action for the main

action which is inside the ocean and

then while we are making these dets some

people are being left behind and this

I'm like bro where's the where is the

boat where is the RAF they say oh it's

here is to this guy I'm like bring that

raffle if you stay back stay alone don't

stay don't stay back with the

raffle I take that thing I like if

somebody want to go he has to cash up

with me I just lead the way and keep

going and all night we go up and then

finally go down to the um step and find

a place and it was all

rocks and I'm

there you know we used to go to where to

the beach so there is a sand MH it's

easier because like when you walk to the

sand like this to go inside water and

every footstep get you deeper and deeper

now you are in the middle of rocks and

then the ocean is there you don't know

how deep is the ocean there and how you

going to get in that ocean you want just

you can just jump like this to get in

the ocean and then uh the wave was so

strong you you will he like

like damn was it night time yeah early

in the morning okay because we are

waiting we are aiming to do this when uh

they call for 5:00 a.m. prayer okay yeah

but we get little late because because

of those day

too but I'm the captain I'm the one that

everybody's expecting on me and he will

we were he was uh nine of

us so I I tell them okay with me here

here let me um um find a

place you

know when something is yours is

yours I walked around and I get

somewhere in the middle of rocks I found

a spot just big as big as this table

enough to inflate the boat just enough

no more than that and he was like this

clean I touch it it there wasn't

anything sharp on it just like that

enough I went back and called the other

guys like let's go they came I'm like

okay let's infl the boat eventually the

boat Gets In The Water you go yeah and

the boat is rescued by the American Red

Cross by the Red Cross don't know if it

was I we know there was a Red Cross base

in in Spain in did you get to you got to

Spain we didn't get there but we know

that there's a Red Cross inside ocean in

fact okay in fact we have their numbers

so you knew there was a Red Cross there

so you got close to Spain yeah and then

the Red Cross came and got you we get

far from the uh Moroccan Coast but we

don't know where is the limit but we

just get far from this coast and then

trying to get as far as possible uh

inside the ocean and call but the

problem is that you're in the middle of

the ocean and even though it's where L

the two the closest distance of the two

continent uh from this side you can see

the other side but in the midor of the

ocean when they say where are you what

are you seeing you can really give them

a Direction so sometime because their

goal is just to rescue you their goal is

not to bring you to Spain and if they

cannot find you they will even call a

Moroccan Coast uh coast guard for uh

help and if you know you're lucking day

you get fined by Moroccan CU God you

know where you're going you're going

back

to

so we P like for one I think it was like

hour and a half almost 2 hours and then

there was a

helicopter uh in in front of us and he

was like standing there like he was

looking about something and I tell the

guy that okay this not a good sign

whether this helicopter can play against

us or he can play for us what we do call

we call now because when they ask if

they ask what are you seen we will see

the elicopter is right above us and then

we call so you called the Red Cross we

called the Red Cross you called the Red

Cross yes and what did you say for the

restroom oh we are in the inside the

ocean we need

help and then I don't know we pick up

the phone and start to ask if we have

yes how many people do you have a lady

in the boat and this I'm like what the

hell is this problem we are human being

and I'm like yes we have ladies even

kids we didn't have kids we have ladies

I'm like what's that what's different

that makes like you will just let off us

here because like yes even kids and say

okay what are you seeing we see we we

see the helicopter right above say Okay

welcome in did and they found you yeah

and then right after that it started

rain and the water really get bad he was

moving now we are in the middle of the

ocean in this little uh boat just as

like this table and he's like going

all we TI get tied in the middle we were

it was nine of us how long did it take

for the Red Cross to find you

uh like 10 10 to 15 minutes it's quick

yeah and they they take yeah I think a

little more maybe like 20 minutes and

they take you to Spain and then when

they when they find us because now he

was little harder to find us because it

was raining and the ocean wasn't stable

you know when the ocean is stable you

can see something from far away now this

is there something crazy that happened

inside the ocean like from the coast the

ocean is flat when you get inside at

some point bro ocean has Mountain like

there's a way that you're

climbing and then until you get to the

Peck and then there's a way that you're

going down inside the ocean I don't know

how it works but it's exactly like that

and you can see like a h Mountain inside

the ocean and they they took you to

Spain yeah they found us uh and then

took us in their in their boat they have

a real boat you know like solid big boat

that took us inside and then uh brought

us to their um headquarter which is in

in Spain and you stayed in Spain in a

Detention Center in a cell with 10 or 20

other men um for two months yes it was

like I think uh 53 days how were you

treated

treated we were eating but it was a

prison though it was quite a prison I

think you get to the point that you I'm

like maybe they should have just let us

inside the ocean

or maybe we were better in in Morocco

because you locked you can do anything

you you realize that you had freedom

even though your life wasn't the best

that's when I mean you here you're

getting Feit every

day but they tell you where when to eat

when to shower when to go sleep when to

go out and

everything and after like um couple

weeks it started to become hot because

at first you excited I'm like oh I made

it you're excited you I'm in Spain I'm

in Europe but after a couple weeks I'm

like come on man like I need my sentence

now because if you you had a fake idea

at one point and if you oh

no when you get caught you make sure

that you don't even have a receipt or

whatever on you so you threw it in the

water oh yeah when did you throw it in

the water when you saw the Red Cross

coming I no when you're sure that the

Red Cross will get you because otherwise

that will be your way out in Morocco

sometime he can prevent you not to be

through in the desert when did they they

released you from the Detention Center

in Spain yes eventually after almost two

months and they gave you

50 no not from the Detention Center

there is a Association that come charity

for refuges some organization that are

out there so they will come take you and

then bring you to their uh place and

where did you where did you want to go

what was the plan so you're now in Spain

you're free you've got

50 so my plan first of all was to go to

first I wanted to go to the UK MH but I

knew that even though I'm in Europe the

free circulation in Europe will not

allows me to get in the UK because they

are not in the that zone in the shenen

zone so I think I started for Germany

because I wanted a place that boxing was

big but for somehow I was in a group of

people that most of them they like oh we

are going to France oh Shan all this all

that and in the 9th of June 2013 26

years old now you arrive in Paris and I

read that on your first day in

Paris um you figured out how where to

eat where to sleep and you found a

boxing gym where did you sleep when you

arrived in Paris in the parking lot you

slept slept in a parking lot yeah how

long did you sleep in the parking lot

for like two months for two months you

slept in a parking lot how did you how

did you so you arrive in Paris you're

sleeping in a car park um how do you

find a gym pay for a gym oh next day I

was after it so I finally get where I

could start that dream that I've been

having for a decade what did you do did

you just walk up to the boxing gym and

say hey can I come here for

free yeah basically what I I worked in

the front des and they gave me this um

form and then I saw the price and

everything and I couldn't afford it now

I'm like can I talk to a coach to the

boxing coach and the ladies said the

boxing coach is not there today

but uh he has his substitute is there

you can talk to him and we I just

explain straightforward like okay I

arrived in Paris yesterday I don't have

where to sleep you know but all what I

want I want a place to train so that's

why I wanted to see a boxing a coach if

you can let me train here because I have

no money uh I have nowhere to sleep I

have nothing but the only thing that I'm

asking for

is a place to train because I want to

become a world champion straightforward

that was it and he

said

um if you have a phone number give me

your phone number I'll speak to a boxing

coach he'll be here on Wednesday and

I'll give you a call

back that's

how I gave him my phone number I had a

phone and then on Thursday morning he

called me and he said yes I spoke to the

coach and he agreed that you can come

and train and the next training uh is

Saturday and that's how he started did

kment yeah d k did a come on was that

man that you met that day in the boxing

gym that gave you a chance yeah and he

let you train for

free how he speak on my behalf to the

coach who let me let you train yeah and

they gave you new pair of shoes I read

that he gave you keys to an apartment to

sleep in as well uh yes after like two

months uh he gave me he gave me a key he

has like one apartment that uh he was uh

I think was ABNB or renting out and then

he get free for coule is and at time I

think uh he knows me a little bit more

and he gave me that apartment for almost

two months he he changed your life

didn't he because if he hadn't have said

yes if he hadn't have introduced you to

the person if he hadn't help have helped

you he helped me a lot he helped me a

lot changed my life I think is too much

say but he helped me a lot um I mean we

were at the gym and then he knows

exactly my situation because I was uh

clear to him telling him everything but

other people at the gym didn't know and

in fact he he at some point even tell me

that you don't have to tell your story

to everybody they don't need to know

your situation you know like why did he

help you why did he help you because he

was kind he just like me and like to

help me and uh

hear me a lot it's because he didn't

have a a reason no he didn't a lot of

people will have

expectation that maybe at time you would

you would not know but later on you will

find out but he was just genuine you

never have like a expectation you know

in fact sometime he's the guy that

sometime you will even call you will not

he will not be around shut down his

phone and everything he's always been

like that because it was quite difficult

to become a boxer in France without

having all of the correct identity

papers he eventually suggests that you

take up mixed martial arts as a way to

make some quick money um and in 2013 26

years old you went to the MMA Factory in

France and introduced your coach

yourself to a coach called Fernand Lopez

and within four months I mean he saw

something especially in you in terms of

MMA and within four months of that you

had your first MMA fight yeah

what did you think when you first saw

the sport of MMA did you had you ever

heard of MMA before no so DJ was the

first one to talk to me about MMA I'm

like oh yes you have a good striking if

you do MMA I'm like what is MMA it's

Mar okay good then what's that what's

mix Mas say yes it's like boxing with

wrestling with this I'm like ah I think

I have seen that once on the TV I was

watching TV I see something like that

that like yes if you have if you learn

some good wrestling some take down

defense little bit of a grappling and

this I'm like what's grappling to

explain the whole thing to

me and this is back in

2013 June 2013 and I'm like bro nah

that's not what I want I want you know

the Mike Tyson boxing right so yes I'm

like that's what I want you fought five

times in Europe before you were signed

for the UFC which is quite remarkable

because a lot of people spend many many

many many years trying to get into the

UFC you fought just five times in Europe

before you were offered a chance to

fight in the UFC I didn't even I wasn't

even planning to go to the

UFC and uh but as soon as I start I

started to fight in France then it

became it became very hard for me to

have a fight in France people didn't

want to fight me fight me why oh they

say I'm

brutal and I'm like it's a fighting

game I mean the the goal is to be brutal

and then I'm not having fight because

I'm brutal like I heard your coach he

actually posted on Facebook saying um

asking if anyone in Europe wanted to

fight you the post is will anybody in

Europe fight Francis yes nobody wanted

to fight you I mean no anybody at that

level because even though a lot of

people didn't want to fight me I was

still unexperienced

so he's not like they will give just

give me to anybody but nobody either

like want to take a risk there's not a

gain for a elite fighter to fight me

he's risking of losing everything but

not a not quite a lot to gain were you

aiming to be in the UFC cuz you now you

knew what MMA was but when you started

becom an MMA fighter were you trying to

get into the UFC no how did that happen

I was just like you know training uh

because I I had time I uh I was jobless

so I have all my time and I like to

train and I found MMA I found MMA very

uh exciting I like all those stuff so I

was training boxing MMA and then I start

to fight MMA and sometime maybe I will

have like um couple hundred Euro

fighting uh MMA who who was very welcome

at the at the time so I'm like let's do

this but that was it and people keep

saying oh if you improve your Jujitsu if

you do this you're going to become a UFC

champion like then

what I really like I was so focused on

boxing and then um but I think like MMA

came to me and gave me that opportunity

and then all of the sudden I'm here I

have the UFC contract ra how did that

happen how did that happen did they call

you or your agent or your manager so I

think um uh Fernando a guy that was a

manager at time uh he uh Thiago okay

Thiago okamura okay yeah and then he was

the guy that was uh pitching me to the

UFC okay so your manager your coach knew

someone who was pitching you to the UFC

yeah manager

okay and then that's how I get uh that's

how I get the UFC contract where was

your first fight in the UFC Orlando

Orlando yeah was that your first time in

America yeah uh it was the first time

and I remember like uh I get

there and I'm like okay and uh there was

somebody at the airport with a tablet

with my name on it and then picked me up

with a Cadillac brought me to the hotel

the H I had residency they check me in

brought me to my room how did it

feel then I call home I call my mom I'm

like I don't know what it is but I think

your son have made

it finally get to that like I mean like

I get to America basically so that's

what because for so many years America

was the dream to get in America and I

get in America and in a big way not the

way that I get in Europe because I get

in Europe in the service door I get in

America basically on on the red carpet

that was

it that was

2015 2015 how much that first fight do

you does that that first fight make you

rich no you don't get paid much for the

first UFC fight yeah he was $10,000 plus

10,000 uh win bonus and then with all

the commissions you got out with almost

just half uh but he wasn't he wasn't

about the fight he was more about like I

think me coming to America and all the

stuff he was more than what I was making

in the fight that's nine years after you

left Cameroon you fought for the UFC

heavyweight championship

belt and eventually you won that belt

and you you held that UFC heavyweight

title yeah but I lost I I fought before

yeah you fought quite a lot yes I fought

in uh 2018 yeah yeah um but eventually

you won the same guy yeah I lost I've

I've watched your career so I've watched

the journey and it felt like for the

first start of your career I don't know

it felt like maybe you weren't as

focused but then it felt like this this

other half of your UFC career something

had changed I was focused it's just that

I didn't I never I never done sport

before I didn't grow up as the athlete

so I didn't know how how they do I

didn't know how they train I didn't know

how to prepare for a championship I

didn't know anything so I was just out

there trying and then in that fight I

did a lot of mistake and I learned from

it and I'm like okay the good thing I

might have lost this fight but this

fight would be the biggest um fight in

my career because everything that is

coming after this fight everything that

I'm learn that I learned in this fight I

will Implement that in my game in my

career uh from now on and he'll be quite

helpful you have the hardest punch ever

recorded by the UFC the equivalent of 93

horsepower a smart car by comparison

maxes out at 80 horsepower and they

called you the Predator you did

eventually win the UFC heavyweight title

and you held it between 21 to 2021 and

2023 and eventually you left the UFC in

January

2023 because of basically a dis a

disagreement with with the UFC with Dana

White about I guess freedom and

money yes freedom and uh

treatment the way that uh I was being

treated I didn't like it was there ever

a moment where

you realized that you'd really made it

you know you're you're a young man that

come from Cameroon walk you walked your

way out of the you know through Africa

and then you got on a boat and went to

Spain and then from Spain to Paris then

from Paris to America and then you you

reach the highest mountain which is you

win the UFC heavyweight title which is

like the peak of fighting was there a

moment where you you thought I've I've

made it it's not like you reach the

higher Mountain you know uh

whatever Mountain you are on top there's

always then when you get in The Pick of

a mountain you realize there's another

Mountain that's higher you know and um

you realize that what motivate you what

keep you going wasn't the peak of the

mountain but he was the peak of all

Mountain so then you keep is never a

satisf satisfaction even though you you

take a a moment I'm like oh finally make

it to the top you know you take a breath

but you know that you will keep going

it's I think it's a mindset that uh you

have and basically will not stop like

you don't have a limit you don't have a

place that you say okay if I get here

then I'm done there's always

something uh around there's always

something which is set as a higher

Mountain you know so but I think

um what I do is to take time you know I

like to go home a lot and I like to go

back on my path and uh every step every

time I'll be there I'm like thinking of

the moment that I was there like maybe

15 years ago and he will feel like he

was just yesterday and I will trying to

see like where I am today you know see

the differ that's exactly when I

realized because when I'm here I'm just

living like it's normal like is

everybody like he was just like this all

the time but when I get back I connect

with the with the past and then I

realize how far uh the road has been and

you've you've really gone I mean it's

been a an incredible J has your mother

ever seen you fight in the UFC has she

ever been there no I triy I trying to

get her uh to my fight back in 2019 she

couldn't get a visa she get uh denied

twice and I'm like okay okay this is so

stressful I'm not doing it

again it was also embarrassing stressful

one and even for her it was very tough

and I'm like okay I'm not putting her to

this again uh there will be a moment I

think if I set up if I set set things up

pretty good there will be a moment that

things will be easier for her to see me

fight why are you fighting why are you

fighting now I mean you you made I mean

the reason you left the UFC was because

of Freedom issues and you didn't like

the treatment you wanted to be free the

argument you had with Dana um you know

you say

that essentially you you weren't willing

to um comply with the the system of the

UFC where you don't really have the

option to go and box and do other things

Dana White said that you're in a place

where you wanted to take less risks and

you wanted to fight lesser opponents for

more money so we're going to let him do

that is that true do you agree with what

he said he said you wanted to take less

risks and fight other opponents lesser

opponents to make more money I think if

we have to spend time to talk about like

what Dana White say if it's true or not

we're going to spend a whole night here

and then don't be okay with a lot of

thing um I think the situation was a

little bit embarrassing for him and then

he was going to make it statement and

find his way out less of opinion like

living my comfortable life uh career in

MMA that I'm quite comfortable into to

step into boxing to take the best for my

first uh boxing match which I never

really do a professional boxing match

that does that sound like a easy

fight I mean I think he has to say

something and um those who knows uh

those who know know that he has just has

to say something to get out of that

situation the truth what's the

truth easy he didn't want to um

compromise he didn't want to change and

I feel like that situation wasn't good

for me and uh I tell myself if that's

the end then let it

be I I mean in fact I had no guarantee

that the boxing that I've been dreaming

of doing I I will have to do it it will

happen at the time but uh I didn't just

want to comply and do thing that I'm not

okay with just because they led me with

that one option to say yes with things

that I don't like that was the thing I I

was very aware

that uh that could be it but he has to

be on my term and even though he means

like going back to Africa you know you

know I don't know Farm I I love F

farming I always love uh

farm and if that mean I had to go back

and farm I was okay with it so I made my

peace with myself uh at time and that's

why I stood with my decision I turned

down a lot of money that I didn't have

at time I was for the most part I was

broke I was living uh out of loan

so yes you're the heavyweight champion

of the world in the UFC you're broke I

mean not that broke when I say I was

broke I mean for for a he for a

heavyweight champion I

wasn't comfor millionaire yeah I wasn't

comfortable uh were you a

millionaire maybe but uh never made a

million a fight but um the most you made

was £500,000 except except except if I

have accept to um to sign a new contract

I would have been having a lot of money

but that contract was coming with a lot

of thing that I was fighting against and

uh that's why I didn't sign so I'm like

okay whatever this deal is whatever this

Contra is I'm fighting this Contra of um

instead of renewing the Contra for and

have more money and really have nothing

changed that mean I'm setting my myself

up for another for another years in the

same situation that uh I'm giving away

all the power in a contract that is not

giving me any power the power you wanted

was

Freedom yeah was Freedom was it

possibility to say okay this is not

right you can do this you know or you

have to do this you have I mean I I I

need a obligation I don't want a

one-side contract I don't want a

contract that okay there's uh I have no

right but in the other hand the other

side of the table have no obligation so

in fact

uh I mean I'm giving everything for

nothing just for money I want some of

that leverage so you wanted to be able

to decide and you wanted not like to

decide but I want I want at least some

some responsibility on the other side

showing toward me you know I want some

some

responsibility for example when I come

to like say

healthare for that level for the money

that I could have been making uh for the

money that I would have be making if I

had signed that contract I could have

have any kind of healthare that I

want but at the same time I also want

the guy on the other side of the table

to take some responsibility I'm like

okay I'm giving you a healthare for

example so you wanted some something

like healthcare included yeah yeah I

want stuff like that I want something

like a guarantee since I'm making this

of a as a living and I'm exclusive to

you you guarantee me that whenever I

could fight you find something for me

you are obligated to give me a fight

know that because if I don't sign a

contract and you want me to sign and you

want me to run out of money

and craw back to you because I need

those money then you staff me and not

give me a fight you know even though you

know that even know that you you know

that I might need two just because you

know that I might need two or three

fight to make a living to keep off up my

lifestyle then uh you strengthen back

down to one fight so I will be needing

money and then will be forced to take a

contract that I don't want just because

I need money so I want to make sure I'm

super clear on this you you essentially

wanted a guarantee of fights within the

contract so that you could a guarantee

of Engagement I'm giving everything I'm

giving up all my right exclusivity

exclusivity and go and do anything else

but I really yes but you are not

committed to anything so okay so I'm the

UFC I'm not committed to anything but

you have to give up your exclusivity

yeah and I'm not even guaranteeing that

I'm going to give you and then some some

exclusivity in that contract said in

forever yeah to exclusive forever in

certain situations but at the same time

you really have not obligation but I

have no responsibility obligation to

give you anything yeah so it's really

one-sided yeah okay so if if you decide

not to give me a fight for two years I

can't say anything and you'd starve but

if you if you call me and say oh you

have a fight in uh okay I have a fight I

want you to fight in one month and I'm

say oh I'm hurt then you have right to

say okay I extend your contract for 6

month oh okay so if you turn down a

fight then they can extend the contract

for and doesn't matter the reason for

any reason so you could be and and and

there's nobody will be consulted for

that if that's fair or not they make the

decision so you so I could know that you

were sick and I could offer you a fight

knowing that you couldn't take it and

that would extend the contract six

months

yeah so you decided to quit and you knew

that when you quit you could lose

everything you there was no guarantee

that you could could go there's not a

bigger fighting League I decided to

leave not to quit Okay you decided to

leave um and when you left did you have

a

plan not

really how do you feel about the UFC now

I don't know I think they do business

how is good for them they they do a good

business for themsel I just wanted to do

what's good for me

too and you went on to do the impossible

once again in your life because you know

many people thought that maybe you were

you were gone now you were gone from

fighting but

then after that it was announced that

you'd be fighting Tyson Fury in a boxing

match who is the World Heavyweight

Champion of boxing and by many people's

account you know I watched the fight as

well I stayed up in the UK and watched

it um you beat

him you didn't beat him on the

scorecard but I think in every sense of

the word you beat him and for that fight

you got paid I read many times more for

that one fight than you got paid in your

entire UFC career yes from one fight

with Tyson

Fury yeah

uh and even in my he would have be a

Tyson Fury fight or he would have be a

PF fight I knew that uh from that moment

uh every fight that I will make will I

will be pay more than what I've have

been making my entire career why

because uh my last year years in the

UFC I could have been making more if I

have accept the contract so I

basically live left a lot of money on

the

table in order to gain my freedom I

bought my freedom basically you know the

they said that they said freedom is not

given it's not given freedom is not free

you have to give something in order to

get

that so that's why at that point I make

so less of a money because I refuse I

turn down a lot of

money but it worked out it worked in the

end because you got paid more in that

Fury fight than you ever lucky yeah and

then I read that for the fight with

Anthony Joshua you earned about 15

million pounds which is almost 20

million true I don't know I haven't

count

yet so I can't I can't say if it's true

this is I mean but it's not true it's

not true

yeah but you earned a lot of money right

yeah lifechanging amounts of money

what's life changing I don't know enough

money 1,000 can't change life depend of

where we are standing from you're

speaking from my side or from your side

or from moai

you give you give 10 million to somebody

it's just another 10 million and he

won't change anything in his life and

you give 1,000 to somebody he change his

life he save his life he would take that

1,000

maybe send his kid at school or maybe

buy them some medicine save them from

illness or something so lifechanging

money is not the amount why are you

still why are you you still fighting

then cuz you don't you don't need to F

why why I start fighting you have to

find in order to know why I I'm still