I'm the creative director of Pretty

Little Thing. Like, I'm not just an

influencer anymore. This is just the

start for me. I'm only 22. Like, I've

got so much more to learn. We literally

only are given one life. We have to just

go to the extremes. I've worked my

absolute ass off to get where I am now.

A lot of people don't believe that, but

I work. I spend time with my boyfriend

and I go to bed. That is literally my

life. I can't have anybody knowing where

I live. I actually have clothes

protection security now. And really,

there's no price on feeling safe. That

was like a really, really low moment for

me. When we got back, it just felt cold

and eerie and it just didn't feel like

home anymore. He could literally go away

for weeks on end. And there's not a

doubt in my mind that if he was to be

around a load of girls, I could sleep

peacefully at night knowing that he's

just he's for me and I'm for him. And

that is literally the key. You got to

trust you've got everything. There's so

much more to it than people see. They

have no idea what really goes on. I

mean, I would never say like I've had

like a mental breakdown, but that was

close to it because I just went crazy.

[Music]

Molly May. She is, in my opinion, and

according to a lot of the data, the UK's

number one Instagram influencer creator

right now. She started out many years

ago on a show called Love Island. But

many people have been on Love Island and

nobody ever has had the meteoric rise in

their brand, their career, their profile

like Molly has. So, as much as it's easy

to say, well, okay, you know, she had a

boost from Love Island, that does not

explain what's happened in her life

subsequently. So, I wanted to sit down

with her today and find out exactly

what's driving her. What's caused this

meteoric success? Almost 10 million

followers in no time at all. 25,000 new

followers a day. Just imagine for a

second being thrust to the number one

spot in terms of influence and having

tens of millions of followers online,

becoming a multi-millionaire overnight

and being 22

years old. Imagine. Imagine the mistakes

you would make. It's absolutely

fascinating. And the way she deals with

it, I think you'll find incredibly

inspiring. And what comes with that

success? Recently, her house was burgled

and she reportedly lost £800,000

worth of her possessions and had to move

immediately to a new home. She now has

to have 24/7

close protection security. And I'll be

honest with you, this is something Molly

and her manager and team shared with me

before we started recording. Molly

doesn't do interviews like this. So,

this really is in many respects her

first real in-depth interview of this

kind, and I can't wait for you to hear

it. So without further ado, I'm Steven

Bartlett and this is the diary of a CEO.

I hope nobody's listening, but if you

are, then please keep this to yourself.

[Music]

Hitchin,

that's where you're you grew up, right?

Take me back to Hitchin. What was life

like when you were growing up there?

Hitchin, I I actually still am extremely

fond of Hitchin and it was a really it's

a really really special place for I

spent 18 years there growing up in a

very normal house with a very normal

family doing very normal things in a

very normal school, not a private school

or anything. It was just an extremely

normal um yeah area to live in. I loved

it. And um I got my first job there. I I

had a lot of firsts there and um I think

it will always hold a special place in

my heart. I was a lifeguard there at a

swimming pool for four years. Um I had a

job in a hairdressers. I worked in a

gym. It was all going on in Hitchin.

That's where it all all began.

Obviously, it's the Yeah.

family dynamics, brothers, sisters, mom,

dad. Tell me about your your family,

what they do, who they are, what their

character.

So, I have one sister. She's actually in

the army. She's three years older than

me. People are always shocked when I say

I have a sister that's in the army cuz

obviously it's so so different to what I

do. Um, but I'm actually really proud of

that. I think it's it's um I never

really say that, but I'm super proud

that she she is who she is and we've

grown up to be such such different

people. But both parents were in the

police, so that was interesting growing

up. Something else that I'm really proud

of actually having two parents that are

police officers because I don't know, I

quite liked it at school, like sort of

being known as a police officer's kid.

Like I I kind of liked it. No one really

messed with me.

It was quite Yeah. Like even at parties,

like I think even a couple of times my

dad actually I remember one time my dad

actually showed up to shut a party down

that I was at. Um Yeah.

Oh wow.

Yeah. It was um that kind of thing

having um parents as police officers but

I didn't mind it.

And at that age when you're in Hitchin,

what is it that you you want to be when

you grow up?

Oh god. I mean I I always wanted to be

doing something different. I mean I went

to fashion school um for two years

because I really wanted to pursue a

career in fashion. Um all my friends

sort of stayed on and and went to sit

form and college but I again I wanted to

do something different. I wanted to do

something outside the box. So, I had an

interview at the Fashion Retail Academy

in London and I got got a spot there and

I ended up going there for 2 years and

studying there. I was commuting to

London every day at like 17. Um, so

yeah, it was outside my comfort zone,

but I'm I'm really glad I did that cuz

it was just different. I love doing

things that were different.

And did you did you have a Cuz when I

was younger, I wanted to be a dentist

and a doctor and then a surgeon at one

point and then, you know, I bounced

around and then I was like, I want to

manage a business. Yeah.

What were you saying to yourself in

terms of what you would be when you were

older? What you did you have? Was it

fashion?

I think when I was younger, it was

mainly performing arts. I've definitely

got that performing arts streak in me. I

think a lot of people that sort of fall

into being in the public eye do have a

bit of like that performing arts streak

in them because they have that

confidence. But I couldn't quite make it

in that. I tried auditions, I tried, you

know, castings, all this, but I didn't

quite have that. I wasn't quite there.

And I sort of accepted that very quickly

and realized to do well in performing

arts, you have to be the best. It's like

the most cutthroat industry. People say

fashion's cutthroat. No, performing arts

is like it's not an industry you mess

around in. So, I accepted quite quickly

that that wasn't going to work for me.

So, fashion was was where I focused on.

And I really did think that I was going

to end up being like a fashion buyer,

but like a large business or that's

that's kind of what I wanted to do.

Your your mom and dad lived very um as

police officers very uh solid

Yeah.

lives and careers, right?

Yeah. Um, did you at that young age did

you because I'm trying to understand

from like a very young young age and I

always ask this about myself like how

much of it was this kind of in innate

desire to have more and be different and

not live the standard life. Yeah.

Um or how much of it is just you know

following following the heart and see

seeing where it goes.

I think for me watching my parents have

a very ordinary life it sort of

petrified me a bit. It was like a bit

terrifying this thought of I don't want

to grow up in this house and and when I

I'm old in my rocking chair I tell my

grandkids, you know, like I had this

really ordinary life and I had an

ordinary job. I had an ordinary income

like that. It petrified me from I think

around I reckon I started feeling that

way from about 15. I realized like the

world is literally our oyster and we can

do whatever we want with the 24 hours in

the day that we're given. So why the

hell am I not going to go out and like

make the most of them and do crazy

things and make the as I said make the

most of it. So yeah, I think my parents

having this very ordinary job, like I

mean police office, it's not necessarily

that ordinary, but for me it was like it

just terrified me. I was like, I don't

want to have this life in Hitchin

forever. It's I know that there's so

much more to achieve. And I moved to

Manchester um when I was 18 and started

my life there. I just moved out. I

literally said to my mom one day, I

walked down into the living room. I'll

never forget it. And I said, "I found

this flat on right move and I'm moving

to Manchester." And she was like, "No,

you're not." I was like, "No, no, I'm

going." She was like, "You don't have

enough money." And I was like, I'll find

it. Like, I'll make this work. And I

literally went within a week and I was

gone. I packed all my stuff up and I

just left. And I moved to Manchester.

And I remember the first night in my

apartment in Manchester in Anchos. I was

like, what have I done? I was like, this

was the worst move. I felt so homesick.

It was horrendous. But then I settled in

and it was the best thing I ever did.

Looking back on it now, it was

Were you moving for a job or you were

moving just because of history?

I sort of um at that point I sort of

missed out a part. had sort of started

to grow a following on Instagram and it

was growing quite rapidly um and I'd

found um a management in Manchester so I

just thought I'm just going to go up

there and just see what happens like

what's the worst that can happen and all

sort of the fast fashion companies and

everything was in Manchester at that

point. It became like the new place to

be. Um so I just thought let's go let's

do it and yeah went by myself. No one

believed I was going to do it and I just

did and yeah I definitely couldn't

afford my rent. My mom was right. I

think if um I'd stayed there any longer,

I probably would have had to move back

home at some point because I really

couldn't afford my rent. I think it was

like 900 pound a month and I was barely

making a£1,000 a month. So after my

rent, I had about £100 to live on and a

Starbucks at that point is what £5. So

it um but yeah, no, it was the best

thing I ever did cuz obviously still in

Manchester now and I don't plan on

leaving. I love it. Do you um do you

consider yourself to be just thinking

about that taking that step because you

can often see in people's journeys

there's that like one step into

uncertainty where people think well

don't know why she did that or I

wouldn't have done that myself but your

career seems to be riddled with these

kind of steps into uncertainty. Would

you consider yourself to be at that age

especially a confident person?

Yeah, I've always been extremely

confident. I've never ever struggled

with um my confidence. Like even meeting

new people, trying new things, like I've

never I've never I've never felt

unconfident in any situation, which I'm

really blessed to have that. Like even,

you know, when I went on Love Island,

like going to my auditions, super

confident, always super confident in

everything I do, everything I I stand

by. Like I just have that confidence.

And yeah, I'm I'm lucky to have that

because I think it's something that just

comes. You don't you can't really

build on it. Like it's either there or

it's not. Um so yeah very confident

person.

Do you think you're as you kind of like

so if we zoom forward a little bit we'll

zoom back but as you zoom forward on

this point of confidence um one of the

things I learned in my life is as I

managed to do more things and achieve

more things. I actually realized that

the previous version of myself um knew

so little about the nature of the world

and I just want to like scream back at

myself. Oh my god Steve even though you

were ambitious then confident then you

were wrong like you can do even more.

So, as you as you look back on that that

you know that young girl in Hitchin um

and other people who will be in that

situation, I'm I'm the same. I'm from a

small town where there's not a lot of

you know

Yeah.

global dreaming going on. Um what what

have you learned about the nature of

like confidence and and how it builds

and how your how capable and how you

know powerful your potential really is

as you've bum climbed up the ladder. I

think it is just believing in in that

Beyonce has the same 24 hours in a day

that that we do. And I just think like

it's lit you're given one life and it's

down to you what you do with it. Like

you can literally go in any direction.

And when I've spoken about that before

in the past, I have been slammed a

little bit with people saying, you know,

like it's easy for you to say that, you

know, you've grown up and you've not

grown up in poverty. You've not grown

up, you know, with major money

struggles. So for you to sit there and

say that we all have the same 24 hours

in a day is not correct. And I'm like,

but technically what I'm saying is

correct. We we do. So, I understand that

obviously we all have different

backgrounds and we're all raised in

different ways and we do have different

financial situations, but I think if you

want something enough, you can achieve

it and it just depends to what lengths

you want to go to get where you want to

be in the future and I'll go to any

length. Like I I've worked my absolute

ass off to get where I am now. A lot of

people don't think that and believe

that, but it's true. I've worked so so

hard

on that point of time and Beyonce and

that kind of that that kind of mindset

of being very very um efficient with how

you spend your time. You must get a

million requests to do everything like I

get a lot of requests. You must be

getting pulled, pushed, do this, do

that. How do you make the decision as to

what is truly in line with who you are

and where you want to go when you know

like I don't think people understand

thousands you probably getting thousands

of requests DMs opportunities some of

them which you I'm sure you love to do

as you say 24 hours in a day. Yeah.

So how are you filtering that?

I think what you've just said is

actually the key to why I've become

successful in what I do is because it is

so strict with what I do take on and

what I don't take on. my days are

planned out to like the nth degree. Like

it is so particular what work I'm doing

and everything is done with such thought

and like such um understanding behind

it. Like I'm never taking on work that I

don't understand or posting things on my

socials that I'm not 100% behind or

using. Like I think that is the key to

being successful in in this industry and

influencing if you want to call it. Like

it's it's knowing what you're doing and

knowing what you're talking about is is

gospel. like you you use those products,

you you stand behind what you're saying.

Like I think that is why I've I have

done well in what I in what I do because

I am so believing in what I say and my

my followers know that like they they

know that I'm not talking about

something on my YouTube unless I use it

unless I I believe in it and that is the

key to being successful in this. You

have to have the trust of your audience.

So what work we take on is is honestly

1% of what comes in. Less probably

Frank gets I'm not even joking 800

emails a day for work coming in. It's it

never stops. She's on her emails from

500 from 5:00 a.m. um going through work

that comes in and it's you have to turn

down so much to to to earn that respect

from your audience and earn that trust.

And between you and your manager Fran,

do you then have to kind of initially

agree where where you want to go with

your career, what your values are, what

aligns with you,

and that kind of becomes the filter of

these 800 messages a day. Is that the

And

we we set goals. We we have like Fran

and I have like this sort of regular

meeting every like six months or so and

we we sit down and we we make a list of

what I want to achieve and it used to be

well at the start we were like going to

do it every year but I'm I am achieving

them rapidly now. So we're doing it like

every few months and creating new goals

and setting new new targets of like okay

I want to work with this brand. So if

they've not reached to me Fran will

reach out and lo and behold it normally

happens. We're we we're a really really

great team and I think having a manager

that understands what your direction and

what you want to do is utterly key cuz

you know it's it's just so important

like you can't do it alone. It's

impossible like okay it's not impossible

but it's I couldn't do it alone. No way.

So um having a manager that really

really understands where you want to go

is just so so so important I think. And

there's a there's a pretty remarkable

long- termism to your mindset that I I

garnered from watching some of the

videos that you'd made. One in

particular was

the video where you know a brand has

come along and offered you 2 million

quid

to like be the face of their brand or do

a partnership with them

and Fran has presented you with that

opportunity

and you said no I don't want to do that.

Yeah.

2 million quid Molly.

Yeah. No, I said

I would wear dresses for 2 million if

that brand is still looking for a a

face. Oh my god, that's crazy.

Why did you say what?

That's the thing. Like, as I just said

before, like no amount of money can make

me take a job that I don't believe in.

If I'm not wearing the clothes, I'm not

taking the job. No matter if they offer

me 5 million, 10 million. And I just so

solely believe that because the money

will come from your audience like

appreciating that you didn't take that

job. And do you know what I'm saying?

Like it's I'd rather build that trust

than than take that money because the

trust is what will earn you money in the

future anyway. So, I know that 2 million

pound is going to come back to me at

some point because I'll work with

another brand that I do believe in

instead and and my audience will see

that and they'll buy into it. They'll

like the picture. They'll engage with

the content. Whereas, they're not going

to if I took that that brand deal

before. So, cuz the audience see

through. They're not stupid. Like people

I follow on Instagram that I love when

they do something that's not authentic.

I see straight through it because you're

the consumer. Like, you know, and it's

just um yeah, I think I did I knew you'd

bring out that 2 million one because

everyone was really fascinated by it. I

think everyone was really shocked. But

that's the side to me that people don't

see. And I was really glad that me and

Fran had that chat on my YouTube because

it showed people that,

you know, it's there's so much more to

it than people see with this whole

influencing thing. It's they have no

idea what really goes on.

And my last point on this this point of

you and Fran, one of the things I found

actually quite quite remarkable is um

when when you were coming down today and

you know we were sorting out the the

logistics and those things, you and Fran

stayed in the same hotel room.

Yeah.

which is not typical of, you know,

manager and client.

Yeah.

How close are you? You and Fran and

we're literally like best friends. She's

I say like she's like a second mom to

me. Like it it's grown that way because

we spend like we spend every day

together. We're on the phone 24/7. Like

I speak to her more than I speak to

Tommy. Absolutely. Like it's the

constant constant conversation. It never

stops. If we're not on the phone, we're

texting. If we're not texting, we're in

person with each other. Um Yeah. So,

like even after the last few weeks,

what's been going on with Tommy and I,

like Fran took us in, she's looked after

us. It's she's like my mom in

Manchester. Like without her, I honestly

don't know how I'd have got through the

last few years of my life. Like she's

she's um yeah, it's much more than a

manager. And I'm so blessed. I know it's

not a normal situation for people to

have a manager like that. And I know

when you come out of a show like Love

Island, having that manager that is on

it is so key. It is honestly so so key

because without that it can really

really fluff things up for you which

I've seen firsthand with so many people

and it's so sad but yeah

so let's talk about that then. So, Love

Island. Um, I don't want to talk too

much about it because I think everybody

understands the show and the concept of

it, but when you first were presented

with the opportunity and you're debating

because a lot, you know, I think

everyone's got a mate who says, "Oh,

yeah, Love Island asked me to be on it

and I said no." That nonsense, right?

When you first were presented with the

opportunity, what was your incentive for

saying yes?

Well, it's it's tricky. I've always

struggled with how to talk about it

because I answered a question once on my

YouTube about was Love Island a business

move for you? like and I and it is

tricky for me to say the right thing

without upsetting people. But put it

this way, I didn't go on that show to

find love. No one does. People go on it

for the experience. People go on there

for a laugh. And I think because I went

on there with a completely probably

incorrect mindset, that's why I did come

out with a boyfriend. And I think cuz

you know when you're not expecting

something, it happens. Um but yeah, I

remember that it they came forward and I

just thought at the time my influencing

was going really well. And there was

actually a side of me that thought I can

actually do this without going on this

show. like I know I'll be fine either

way. My following my following was

growing rapidly. Like I think I was

about 170,000 followers at that point

and that was all organic growth. There

was no TV shows or anything and I hadn't

had any friends of large followings that

sort of posted me. It was all very

natural growth. So I knew I'd I'd say

now if I hadn't gone on the show I'd

probably be I'd like to say I'd be

hitting a million followers um cuz I had

that really good work ethic with my

Instagram. But the show just sort of it

just elevated me. And then I think one

thing I always say is that when you come

off that show, you're all on a level

playing field and it's totally up to you

where you go with it. And I just knew

that I wanted to go just to levels that

no one had ever gone to. And that's why

I never really speak about it cuz I just

feel like I don't owe it. That's not the

reason why I am where I am now. Yeah, it

gave me a platform. Yeah, it elevated

me. But the things I've done now are not

because of Love Island. They're because

of me and what I've decided to do and my

work ethic.

So I want to drill down on that point

then. So you're completely right. Um,

Love Island is a platform, but the it's

super super clear that if you look at

the outcome of everybody that's been on

that platform,

the results are wildly varying.

And um, you're you've you know, you're

part of that platform.

Yeah.

But what's happened to you subsequently

after you've been on that show,

Yeah.

is um,

unprecedented. there's not been another

example of someone who has risen so high

following being involved in that

platform. So, what is it about you

and you know your character, your, you

know, whatever it might be? I don't want

to put the answer in your mouth. What is

it about you that's that's caused that?

So many different things, but I think I

knew the minute I came off that show

that I just wanted to do crazy things.

And one thing for me is that when I

reach one goal, it's what can I achieve

next? It's never enough for me. And I

think it's a bit of a downside to my

personality because when I achieve

something incredible, I I just want

more. I always want more. Like I

remember I was speaking to Fran about

this. I was like I remember when my goal

was I really want to get a million

pounds my bank account. That's all I

wanted to do. I was like that is my

goal. And then the minute I reached it I

was like well I want two now. I want two

million. And it's like I never am happy

with where I'm at. I'm constantly

working towards the next thing. But I

think you need that you need that work

ethic. You need that desire to always

want more. It's never enough for me.

Even when I got my biggest dream collabs

and it's just what can I get next?

Fran's thick of it as well. She's like,

"It's enough now. Come on."

Yeah. You know, and when someone hears

that, they might think, well, how do how

do you how would you be happy and

satisfied and content

whilst always striving to have more and

more and more? And once you get to that

mountain top or what you thought was the

mountain top, they call it like a f

false peak and climbing where you get to

that bit and then you look up and

there's more to go

and you and so how do you find the

happiness amongst and amidst the climb?

Yeah, I'm working on that I think cuz

even recently like we moved in into a

new place. We moved into this new house

and I've realized I've actually got a

bit of a problem with it cuz I was like

this house is literally a dream. It's a

dream but it's not enough for me because

I still want more. Like I still want a

bigger house. I still want bigger things

and it's like I need to work on that

because you do need to find that

happiness because you know 16 17year-old

me is screaming at the things I'm doing

right now and I'm still like it's not

enough you know but I think that's why I

I'm doing the things I'm doing and I am

achieving great things because it's I'm

never sort of like okay yeah that I'm

happy this week I'll just sit down and

and this is fine. No it's like what are

we doing next week? It's it's always

more.

Why do you think you want more? I

what does it what emotionally

psychologically in the mind what what

what is it that's saying that more why

is more important

I think again going back to that point

where like when I when I'm older and

I've got my kids around me and I I want

to literally look back and say like my

life was unbelievable like I did every

single thing I could possibly ever want

to do. There's not one thing on my list

that's not ticked and I think I'm not

there yet and I know I can achieve more

because it's possible so why not? Like

we literally only are given one life.

have to just go to the extremes and

that's what I'm trying to do.

I um I'm I'm very much the same in many

ways and over the years I think I got to

a point where my book is called happy

sexy millionaire because at 18 I wrote

in my diary range bear in mind I was

living in Mosite and didn't have a

driving license. A Range Rover Sport

will be my first car. Make a million

before I'm 25. I'll have a girlfriend

and I'll have a six-pack basically.

Right. That's my life goals. 25.

Brilliant.

24 I'm driving a Range Rover Sport. I'm

a millionaire. Whatever. Whatever.

Whatever. And then

that antilimax of getting there.

Yes.

This like feeling of where's the

marching band in the confetti. Like I

thought

it's a huge anti-limax, isn't it? It's

it's it's mental. Like don't get me

wrong, it's incredible to reach your

goals, but it is a little bit oh you

know when you hear people the richest

people in the world and they say you're

not happy though cuz you have all this

money. Think yeah. you are happy. Like,

of course you are. You've got all this

money. But they're probably not because

it really actually doesn't mean

anything. All of that stuff. Your

happiness comes from within and the

people around you and your life. It

doesn't come from how how much money you

have in your bank and what car you drive

and what house you live in. It really

doesn't. It sounds cliche, but it it

I've learned that and I'm only 22 and it

and I've realized that straight away.

I'm like, "Oh gosh, okay." It actually

doesn't come from all this stuff. It

comes from your mental state and and

your family and that the more important

stuff really, the non-supficial stuff.

That anticlimax is very real though and

my my concern as you've said there is

like I just was scared that I'd never be

happy if I'm not happy now because yeah

like this is like I think for both of us

from what you said anyway this is the

dream

that Hitchin Molly May

dreamed of and you and Hitchin Molly May

at 17 said when we get there at 22 we're

going to be happy. I promise you.

I'll sit on my sofa and I won't work

another day and I'll be happy and I'll

just It's not that way. It isn't. You

think it will be. And don't get me wrong

it's incredible and I'm so happy. I'm

the happiest I've ever been. I tech I

don't want for more, but I do. If that

makes sense. I don't know.

Have you got a lot of friends?

No, I don't. That's That's a blunt

question. Yeah. No,

there's lots of blunt questions here.

Straight up. No. No, I don't. My circle

is minuscule. I have literally about

five people in my circle and that

includes friends. I have acquaintances

and I have people in my life that I I

say are my friends, but I no, my circle

is absolutely tiny and I like it that

way. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Um, I work, I spend time with my

boyfriend, and I go to bed. That is

literally my life. And I'm not bothered

about a social life. It's never been

something that I've been interested in.

I don't know if you've like I don't know

if you know, but I I don't really drink.

I don't party. I don't go out, but that

is just because I actually don't enjoy

it. It's not for me. I'd rather just

focus on making money, being successful,

and and being happy. That's friends.

They they come and go, and I just I find

it a waste bit of a waste of time.

So, you don't you don't actively want

more friends? No.

Yeah.

No, it's it's time consuming like trying

to make people happy. Like, I've lost a

lot of friends, but since coming off

Love Island because I don't have the

time and I and in the end, I just say,

do you know what? Look, like I'd rather

focus on the things that are actually

going to elevate me. And and it sounds

savage, but sometimes friends, they just

not cling on, but they they don't add

much value. Yeah, I know it sounds a bit

savage, but

No, it's true. And especially when you

evolve as a person, you kind of

sometimes I think you lose the thing

that made you resonate with certain

people. You%

Well, I'm not that girl from Hitching

anymore. And you know, like I'm not that

young girl that was a lifeguard at

Hitchin swimming pool. Like that's not

me. I I I've I'm living a completely

different in a different world now. And

a lot of my friends can't relate to

that. And even though I'm still the same

person, my life and my circumstances,

they're just so different that you do

just naturally

just people just fall off, don't they?

But friends have never I've never needed

lots of friends. It's just something

that I've never really needed. And

people pick up on pick up that about me

really quickly. They just say like,

"God, your circle's so small."

Bit of a loner, but I like it.

I you know, I asked that question in

part because every successful person

I've sat here with doesn't have a lot of

friends.

No. And you know, I was actually having

a conversation with one of the previous

guests on this podcast and she's got two

and a half million followers on

Instagram and she was telling me last

night that she has one friend, it's her

boyfriend.

Yeah, sounds about right. I She

literally said, "I have one friend and

it's my boyfriend."

Yeah, that sounds that sounds about

right for me.

And it's sometimes it's weird cuz when I

ask people this question, it feels

really uncomfortable.

Yeah. When you first said it, I was

like, "Oh god, no, I don't." But it's

Yeah, it's it's a weird one because you

don't want to sound like you you don't

have any friends because then people

think, "Well, you're probably the

problem then." Do you know what I mean?

Like you're pushing people away, but it

isn't that. It's just like I haven't got

the time. Like I' I really would rather

just spend time with Fran because we're

friends and we talk about work and we

get we you know we we make money and

then I spend time with my with my

boyfriend because he's amazing and I

doesn't you don't need to force the

conversation. You don't have to go for

dinners and spill. It's just like it

sounds terrible but I just don't have

the time for it. I just I'm lazy with

it.

Has it become hard to trust people? Um

especially following you know your

meteoric rise in the public eye. Does it

get more difficult to trust

Yeah. people because they're always you

know people always well sometimes people

are in it for themselves. They're trying

to sell stuff stories about you or

they're trying to take advantage.

Yeah. I've been quite blessed with my

rise in that I because my circle has

always been small. I've not really had

to cut people off because they're, you

know, selling stories to the press. I've

never had that. I mean that I know of

anyway. Um, I mean, yeah, but um, yeah,

I mean, you you do have to be worried

about who's in your life because I I

think Fran always says this to me. She's

like, you just think you're still that

17-year-old girl from Hitchens.

Sometimes you're not. And people will

come into your life for the wrong

reasons. But I think I'm a bit naive to

that sometimes. And that is another

reason why I keep my circle so small

because it's different now. I think the

PE it's just it's hard to, as I say,

it's hard to trust people. I um I was

watching something you you said about

how you've been very open about sharing

the lows and the highs that have come

with um your meteoric rise and the

publicity and being in the public eye

that it's it's very easy to see a lot of

the clear upsides, right?

The nice things, the like general sense

of I'd say like freedom to choose,

freedom of choice in your career and

stuff like that. But what are some of

the like tradeoffs of that success which

you just think that sucks?

Oh, there's a lot. There's lots.

Obviously, I've dealt with a lot in the

last 2 years in terms of I I was trolled

extremely badly. I mean, it's like a

cliche topic and I and I don't really

talk about the trolling a lot because

it's feel like it's all anyone talks

about on social media these days is

trolls and trolling and but it it it did

happen to me extremely badly. And there

was this one time we went to Barbados to

shoot a campaign for my fake tan

business and um we were followed the

whole trip by Paparazzi. we didn't even

realize. And they were posing as like

architecture um photographers in front

of this building. And and I did think at

one point I was like, is that guy taking

pictures of me? But I just thought, you

know, he's taking pictures of the

building behind me. There's no way in

Barbados that they're going to be taking

pictures of me. Anyway, that afternoon

um me stood in this white bikini like

completely like they were just the most

horrendous pictures in my eyes. And I I

actually rang the Daily Mail myself. I

went through to someone on customer

service and I just was like, "This is

Molly May. you must take those pictures

down now. Like I was hysterically crying

and I was and this poor person on

customer service was probably just like

what is going on? And I was just

screaming down the phone like please

like you've ruined my life. Like look at

the comments under that picture like

please take them down. And it was just

like when I look back at that now I I

mean I would never say like I've had

like a mental breakdown but that was

close to it because I'd lost I just went

crazy. I was like screaming down the

phone this personal customer service

that couldn't do anything about it. But

for me I was like this is going to make

it better. Like if they take them down

it will all go away. But that was like a

really really low moment for me. Um,

probably like the lowest of coming out

of the show. It was horrendous. It was

just horrendous. Like people calling me

fat, um, overweight. And I'm a size

eight. So like it just it made me so

upset to think that if people are

calling me overweight, you know, a girl,

a very normal size 10 girl, like what

are they going to be thinking if if I'm

being called fat? Like it's it's

heartbreaking. And I think the whole

trolling thing, like I have kind of

dealt with it now. Like I'm really good

at dealing with it. I sort of had this

approach of like if it doesn't matter

like people can say what they want to

say these people are just genuinely so

unhappy in their lives that they try and

bring you down and it's so sad but um

you do learn to deal with it. It's just

part of it and we're really we've

learned in terms of like we're we're on

always on pack watch now and if we go

away on campaigns like we literally have

someone that job is specifically to look

out for people taking pictures so it

doesn't happen again cuz it was it was

quite bad that for me

those Daily Mail comments really are a

cesspool of just vileness. I remember

when I was announced as a dragon on

Dragon's Den and like I don't look at

comment sections cuz I'm just really not

bothered. It's like not going to add to

my life. But then my family calling me

and being like, oh my god, those

comments.

My mom does that to me. I'm like, don't

look at the

My mom does that to me. She goes, have

you seen the comments on Daily Mail? I'm

like, mom, why would you tell me that?

Like, don't look. I'm not looking, so

neither do you. Like, just leave it. But

yeah, I think obviously they're just

looking out for you and they don't

understand that you're probably just

trying to avoid it. That's a pretty

remarkable way to live is you're talking

about, you know, being on holiday and

having someone on Pat watch and

you must always be on edge to some

degree.

You are always on edge and it's it's a

weird way to live, but it's become

normal now. It's been 2 and a half years

and that was really early on in

Barbados. That was I think maybe 3

months, four months after I'd come out

of the show and that was okay, this is

how we need to live now. This is how we

need to do things. And it's just been

the same. and having an incredible team

as well to to be protective of you is is

I'm really lucky for that because I I

couldn't do it by myself. It is, you

know, really vulnerable like it's such a

vulnerable job to have.

Um and yeah, perhaps posing as

architect, photographers, like it's just

there's snakes everywhere.

Yeah, man. Before we started recording,

Fran, your manager, told me that you are

a little bit of a perfectionist and that

you care a lot about getting all the

details right for your customers, but

across your life generally. So, I guess

my question to you is how do you do

that? How do you, dare I say, worry

about details and also still maintain

your peace of mind?

I mean, it's it's compartmentalizing it.

It's sort of like I I don't really

switch off. It's almost like I just it's

sort of built into my mind. And it's a

24/7. It's I'm always always thinking in

the back of my mind how everything I'm

doing is affecting my work because

that's I am my job at the end of the

day. Like I'm Molly May and Molly May is

what's make what makes me my income.

It's not like I go to work and I come

back and I switch off. I'm 24/7 on my

phone. So everything I'm doing,

everything I'm saying, one story post

that takes two seconds to post.

Everything I do affects how I make

money, how my audience perceives me. So

it's I just think I've just sort of like

I don't know it becomes one. My life is

just is

it sounds chaotic, right? And it also

sounds like I find it pretty remarkable

based on people I've spoken to that live

in a similar way that are very neurotic

and that are always on and always

thinking and then are in the middle of

the like social media instant feedback

bubble.

How do you avoid being anxious in that

in that within that

cauldron? you you really just have to

sort of accept that Instagram is

Instagram and there's always going to be

that one person on Instagram that that

doesn't like what you're doing. I've got

6.2 million followers. It is impossible

to please everybody. So, I've really had

to understand that, you know, everything

I say and everything I do, not

everyone's going to like it, no matter

how much I wish they did because it

would put my mind at rest a lot knowing

that everybody loves what I'm doing,

there's always going to be that one

person that that hates what you're doing

and hates you. So, you just sort of have

to

sort of understand that Instagram is is

just it's very superficial and it's just

a highlight reel. That's why I love my

YouTube as well because I feel like my

YouTube is so behind the scenes. It's

you really get that that bigger picture.

You see the bad stuff that's happening

in my day. And I think, do you know what

I think, not to sound bigheaded, but I

think that is why I have a really high

engagement on my Instagram is because my

followers, they they see me on YouTube

and they see that picture on Instagram

and they think we know that she's not

actually had a good day. We know that

she's actually I spoke about a few

months ago how I wanted this really

really incredible job opportunity and I

didn't get it. And I'm really

transparent. Like I'm like today's been

crap. I've cried today. Like I've come

on my period today. I'm feeling really

rubbish today. like I'm I'm really

really transparent. So I think when they

see that picture on Instagram, they know

actually if we want to see a bit more of

like a realist side here, we'll just go

to our YouTube and have a look. And I

love that. That is why I to all my

influencer friends, I say start YouTube.

Start YouTube. If you want your

engagement to grow, if you want your

audience to fall in love with you, if

you want people to understand you more,

you have to start a YouTube. Because

Instagram is it's it's nothing. It's a

picture. I post one picture a day.

What's anyone going to learn from that

picture? Nothing. YouTube is where it's

at. That's where they learn. And that's

where they engage with you and

understand you and believe in you.

And that's the depth, right? You don't

It's so important. Like I do YouTube

because I love it. I've I still edit all

my own content. I still Yeah. I I'm

really I love it. I actually find it um

therapeutic, editing my videos. And I

love um when I finish editing a video

and I upload it, I love that sense of I

just created that. And it's bigger than

just editing an Instagram picture and

putting it through color tone and

putting a filter on it. you've spent

time developing that video and you've

created and millions of people are going

to go and watch that and spend their 20

minutes of their day watching that video

that you've created and I love that

feeling. That's really special and I've

had so many video editors editors say

like, "Oh, I'll do I would never give

that job to someone else." One of the

things I find really fascinating, it's

linked to what you said there about

being very honest and open with your

audience, but at the same time, again,

if we're talking about things that feel

like they don't marry together or they

feel like contradictions, is as you rise

and rise and rise and as you experience

more like material success and you can

buy nicer things, do you become less

relatable to your audience? And is this

is this something you think about

because the girl at you know that is 16

right now living in Hitchens looking up

at you and you're getting you're getting

apparently further and further away from

being you know

that's such an interesting question when

you say that then I was like that's a

really valid point and I actually don't

get wrong I'll be honest I do see

comments on my Instagram saying like you

know can you do like a more high street

haul this week can you talk about more

high street clothes because don't forget

in that six million followers there's

such a wide wide variety of people.

There's that 45year-old mom that's, you

know, living on food stamps that's, you

know, and she's got no money and she

wants to see me post really normal

things, but then I've got probably

another girl that's following me and

18-year-old girl that dad funds their

life and they want to see the glamour.

It's there's it's such a it's impossible

to to sort of cater for everyone. I try

and as I sort of as you say as I sort of

my life is changing so much I still try

and stay as relatable as possible and I

do I I would say that I am still

extremely relatable and again that's my

YouTube I post yeah all these incredible

things that I buy on my Instagram and

I've sort of stopped doing that now but

I I well

oh because yeah but um I I sort of

that's again on my YouTube is I'm I'm

there's in a vlog I might be saying oh

I've just bought this brand new watch.

It's amazing. It's cost X amount and I'm

having a really great day. But then I

also might say, you know, me and Tommy

have just had a huge argument and I've

walked out the house. I there's it's in

a vlog I try and keep that balance as

much as possible so I can sort of

not because I cater for everyone, just

because I am that way. Life is that that

way. You know, when you're being honest,

one minute something's really great, the

next minute something's really [ __ ] And

that's just the way it is.

And I guess there's there's two forces

there really because I think if I was um

well, not even, but if I was following

you, it'd be for two reasons, right? For

me, on one hand, it's aspiration. It's,

"Oh my god, look at this amazing thing.

All these amazing things she's achieved,

and I really aspire to be there one

day." But then obviously, the

relatability comes from the fact that

you're talking about how bad your period

pains are and this problem with your

boyfriend. And those are things we can

all relate to. And then on the other

hand, there's all these wonderful things

that we can all aspire to.

Yes. And I think I think at the end of

the day, it's it's interesting with

social media because a lot of people in

your position wouldn't share the

aspirational things because they'll care

too much about what people might say.

Yeah. I would actually say the opposite.

I would say I think a lot of people

share the aspirational things, but they

don't share the low moments.

That's true.

When I when I'm watching people's

YouTubes, I'm seeing so many girls being

like, "My life is just so amazing and I

do these amazing things and I'm a vegan

and I eat clean and I go to the gym."

and they don't talk about the low

moments and they wonder why their

audience isn't engaged. You have to be

honest and you have to include those

things that maybe you don't really want

to include it, but your audience will

appreciate that because that girl is

probably also having a crappy day that's

watching it. So, she wants to see you

also having a crappy day. So, she knows

it's okay.

And that's where I think some

influencers and some YouTubers, they

they fall down because they don't

they're not 100% honest. Whereas I

really really am and I stand by that.

Um, so yeah,

if you buy something really expensive

though, let's say you buy something

really really expensive, when you go to

post it, is there an is there a feeling

of like concern about

it might make some people feel, you

know, that struggling might make them

feel bad or inadequate in a way.

Yeah. I mean, it's tricky, isn't it?

It's it's hard to know what you're going

to what you post, how it's going to

affect people. Like, you might think

that posting one thing will have no

effect on somebody, but actually it

could be all that person thinks about

that day. And it's kind of scary. It's a

massive responsibility because I have

super young followers as well and I've

got to be careful. You know, I've been

on a bit of like a health journey

recently. I've got to be so careful

talking about weight loss and what I'm

eating because you don't know what

you're saying. It's so impressionable.

And these young girls, they're so again

vulnerable. And I know when I was

watching girls Instagram stories, I

mean, I'm sure I'll talk to you about

filler in a bit, but I Instagram was the

reason I ended up getting all that

filler because I was watching these

girls stories thinking they have filler,

so I need to go and get filler. So, if

I'm posting about, you know, a health

journey and I've lost a few pounds, I

feel great. Well, then young girls are

going to go and think, well, I need to

go lose a few pounds if Molly May's done

it. So everything you're saying, it has

to be so clearly thought about because

it's you have no idea how that one tiny

story is going to affect that person's

day with everything.

Isn't there a lot of things though where

you just can't you can't there's no way

to get it right.

You can't control it. No, you can't get

it right all the time.

I feel like there must be so many things

where if you post it, you're going to

get back cuz I I experience it a little

bit. People It's funny with with um with

me. I I t and I've learned this again

from my guests that I've sat here with.

I can get away for some reason with a

with a lot more than they can. So, I can

post something and I'll typically get

like pretty much 100% posit like a good

example actually was when um I'd been in

the gym a lot and I'm saying to Grace,

who's in my content team, I'm like, I'm

going to post a topless photo and say

like show my gym transformation before

and after. And Grace raises it to me

that like a lot of influencers who do

that get like slammed for, you know,

what what you saying? You're saying six

pack is healthier.

I'm like, no one's going to say that in

my audience. I post it, everyone's

clapping. Everyone's like, "Amazing.

Give us your tips."

Isn't it?

But it seems to be like almost a double

standard for for creators and women like

you who

if I look at it and think, "Oh, man. You

got it's like a minefield of

correctness."

I know honestly, but that is another

reason why I I stay quiet on a lot of

things. I don't I'm often fearful to

speak. And even on Twitter, I kind of

stopped using my Twitter because

everything you say like you I remember a

few few months ago I went to Italy for

um a trip and I mentioned that I I

didn't like the food in Italy and the

way I worded it probably wasn't it I

probably could have worded it better but

I was trending on Twitter for 4 days

about how I said I didn't like the food

in Italy and and I was like literally

going through a really hard time. I was

like I can't deal with this. It's like

I've I've made one comment that people

didn't like about the ice cream in Italy

and and I'm literally trending and I'm

getting like death threats because of it

and it's a lot. It's a lot. Like it's

how and I mean I always say like when I

don't have like a scandal for a while

I'm thinking god a scandal's coming

soon. I'm going to say something wrong

soon. Like it's it is you're kind of

always on the edge of like what's going

to be next? Like what's what's happening

next? So with all this, you know, when

you say this to me, my like I've got to

be honest, I don't envy that situation

because I think one of the forms of um

one of the real causes in our society

and in the world of mental health issues

is feeling like you can't be your true

self.

Yeah.

And there are physical forms of

imprisonment, putting someone in a jail.

And then there are mental forms of

imprisonment which is like stopping them

speaking freely about who they are, who

they love, what they think and what they

feel. And yet when in every interview

that I've encountered with you, the

answer I see is I'm very very happy.

How could how how is how is that all

possible for you to live in a world

where there is so much concern and so

many minds that you could possibly step

on and to still be

happier? I know. I am always saying that

I'm happy because how I think it would

be selfish for me to say that I'm not

like how could I not be happy? Like

17-year-old me creeps back up then cuz

I'm thinking like God I am happy because

this is all I ever wanted. And yes,

every day in my mind I think, God, I've

got these worries and I have got these

struggles. But let's just take a step

back. I am happy. Like I I sort of have

to just look at the bigger picture. I'm

healthy. I have my health. My family's

well. I have an incredible manager. I

have an incredible boyfriend. I live in

a beautiful house. I'm safe. I'm happy.

Like, I am Yeah, I've got all these

these worries about when am I next going

to have a scandal? When when am I next

going to say the wrong thing? And but in

the bigger picture, like 17-year-old me

again could only dream of this [ __ ] and

I'm living it. So, that's how I look at

it.

And that gratitude, you know, it's

clearly so important to be

Yeah. Yeah. Centered and grounded

amongst all of this chaos, right?

Yes. Yeah. 100%. I I am very grounded.

And I think that's one thing that I'm

proud of is that everyone that knows me

from my life prior to Love Island, they

they've all say I've never changed. I've

always stayed the same. Yeah. My life,

my circumstances have changed, but me

myself, I' I'm the same person. And I

and I know I am. I've never become

bougie. I've never become like I' I've

never, you know, I just I couldn't. It's

not me. I am that I am still that girl

from Hartford Shere but just with a very

different life now. But I've never

changed. Even then since I've met Fran

in that two and a half years, I'm still

the same person that she met on that day

when I came out of Love Island. So yeah,

I stand by that and I'm proud that I've

stayed the same. What are these drinks

here?

So this is Hu. They're the the um it's

basically nutritionally complete food.

So it's um it's the fastest growing

e-commerce company in the country.

Oh, is it?

Yeah. Online and internationally. It's

basically like it's like your your

perfect meal in a drink. So 20, you

know, all your proteins, all your

vitamins, all your minerals, vegan,

glutenfree, and if you're ever on the

I'm sure you are cuz you're super busy.

If you're ever on the go and you're like

skipping meals and stuff,

you have one of these fills you and make

sure that you get all everything you

need.

Amazing.

So I think as the world has got busier,

Hu has got more popular, you know. But

anyway,

right, have to try a hu.

Yeah, we'll give you a couple. They

actually send you a big package after

this. They always do. So,

Oh, okay.

Um, not that anyone knows where you live

now. We'll just make it. We'll talk to

him.

Fran barely knows where I live.

I'll send it to France. You can put it

on.

Speaking though about social media and

you know, one of the changes you made

and you you've talked about this

publicly is you removed the cosmetic

filler from your face,

right? Yeah.

And um

and other things, other sort of changes

to your sort of cosmetic appearance. Can

you talk to me first about what it was

that made you want to go and get

cosmetic filler in your face?

Well, I think

you're clearly very beautiful.

Oh, thank you. Well, I was 17 16 or 17

when I first got filler and 16 if it

was, I think, is actually illegal.

Um, I think you have to be 17 legally.

Um, but I I went and got lip filler when

I was around 16. And it didn't stop for

a few years. I kept getting it and I

kept getting it and it became around

that time was when it had become very

normalized. Filler was it was literally

like going going to the gym like I'm

just going to go and get a top off of my

lip filler. It became so normalized

which is terrifying and so scary that

these things are spoken about on social

media like these these um aesthetic

pages they're posting all these packages

you can get with filler and it's it

became really normal. So I just I went

one day and I just got it and it was

like nothing and I didn't tell my mom. I

just kept it from everyone. no one even

really noticed. But I think on social

media, as I said before, I was seeing

all these girls um with filler and with

all these things done to our fa their

faces. So I thought, well, if I want to

be successful in that industry, if I

want to be an influencer and I want to

have a large following, I'm going to

have to get that, too. Like, I'm going

to need to do that to my face. I need

jaw filler and cheek filler and lip

filler and Botox to look the way these

girls do. Um when actually what I what I

realize now is all just editing. None of

them look like that anyway. But um it's

scary because it I I wouldn't say I got

addicted to it, but uh by the age of 21,

I didn't look like the same person. I

literally looked like a different

person. It was when I look back at

pictures now, I'm I'm terrified of

myself. I'm like, who was that girl? I

don't know what happened. And it was

actually only until my sister said to

me, she was like, we need to sort this

out. It was took her to tell me. I was

at um a PA in in a club. I don't

remember where I was. And she texted me

and she was like, I need to talk to you

about the filler. like it's too much

now. Like it's it's it's enough. You

need to stop. And then I actually sort

of I I remember going on my front camera

and I was looking I was like what's she

talking about? And I actually realized I

was like I don't it's not nice this.

It's my face. I literally everyone used

to call me Quagmire. I don't even know

who Quagmire is. I think it's like a

cartoon character.

Don't know.

Oh okay. Well people say the screen.

Yeah. Quagmire. People used to say

quagmire or they said I look like an

Xbox controller. Like my face was that

warped. Like I got all all kinds of

things. Um, but there was this one

pivotal moment where I'd gone and I'd

got loads of filler and I posted a

YouTube video. Um, and I hadn't let the

filler sort of settle and it was really

swollen and a picture from a screenshot

from that video. It trended on Twitter

for weeks. It was horrendous. It was

utterly horrendous. It was like, you can

insert the picture. We'll send it to

you. It was my face was literally like

it was just awful. And it it was that

was a moment for me as well where I was

like I think I think things need to

change. I I thought one day I'm actually

I'm going to get my lips dissolved and

it and it it was a process. I went and

got my lips dissolved and I posted about

it on YouTube and I didn't expect the

response that I got. It was huge and a

lot of girls were tweeting saying made

me laugh and was like Molly May getting

lip filler does not mean that we have

getting her lip filler dissolved sorry

does not mean that we all have to go and

do the same. Cuz obviously they all love

their lip filler which I think is great.

Like some girls absolutely love it and

by me getting my filler dissolved did

not mean that I I don't agree with

filler. I got it at one point like I I

obviously loved it and some girls it

makes them feel super confident and it

did for me for a while until I took it

too far. I think it can be a great

thing. It's not for me to sit here and

bash it because some girls they do feel

amazing with it and that's that's great.

But for me um the the minute I started

to sort of reverse my image and dissolve

the filler and dissolve my lips and I

actually had full set of composite um

bonding like veneers on my teeth, I had

them removed as well, I literally took

it to the extremes and I just stripped

myself back and weirdly I felt the

prettiest I'd ever felt once it had all

gone. And I and I I feel like I'd

dropped about five years off my age and

it was like it was a really really

significant moment for me and I just

stripping everything back and I didn't

realize how much respect that would get

me. I didn't do it for respect. I did it

for myself. I didn't do it for anyone

else. I did it because I knew that I

needed to. But from doing it all these

young girls were like well all these

young girls parents were emailing Fran

and saying thank you so much. Like this

is so amazing for us to see. It's so

different. I actually had some a mom

come up to me when I was visiting

Hitchin with my mom. She came up to me

in the street crying her eyes out,

saying that she was so grateful to me

for doing what I did with my filler

because she's so happy that like the

effect it had on her children. And my

mom started crying and it was all like

emotions. My mom was she when the woman

walked away, she was like, "I'm so proud

of you." And I just didn't realize like

from me doing that the effect it would

have on so many people. Your manager,

Fran, told me, she said, um, when you

made that decision to remove the

cosmetic filler and the the bonding from

your teeth, um, she was getting so many

emails, she couldn't keep up with her

inbox from parents saying expressing

their admiration and gratitude because

obviously previously, um, those parents

and their children had been looking up

to certain role models who do do a lot

of editing because of, you know, because

of the comparison based world we live

in. and to have a role model like

yourself who is taken the very very

brave and um brave is maybe not the

right word but just the very um

important step to say that I'm going to

be a role model that doesn't um tamper

too much with my face because of the

consequences and what that might tell my

audience about themselves

when you went on your transition when

you went from being you know a little

bit too much filler here maybe and

bonded teeth and stuff like that to the

oh natural Molly that you are Now, was

there ever moments of doubt where you

looked at yourself and thought, do you

know what? Maybe I'll nip back and

Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, it didn't

happen overnight. I can't sit here and

say like I suddenly just felt

incredible. Like, it was a huge change.

Like, my I literally I looked like a

different person with all the filler in

and a different person with it out. And

um there was a moment where I I'd just

done the cover for Cosmopolitan magazine

and it was a really big deal to me. I

was so hugely happy that I'd landed the

cover because

um I it was a dream. It's huge. My mom

used to buy me that magazine when I was

younger and it was it was I couldn't

believe that I was going to be on the

cover. But that was the first time I'd

been pictured after I'd had all the

filler removed and I actually despised

the picture so much that I just I cried

about it for days. Yeah. I cuz I didn't

get approval of the image and I just

thought I sort of prayed. I was like I

really hope I like the image and I I

absolutely hated it. and it went it went

out and it was fine and everyone was

telling me how amazing I looked and and

it was kind of sad that after everyone

sort of confirmed that they they thought

I looked nice then I felt better. That's

a bit sad because I think I didn't until

I' until people started to started to

say that and I never really thought I

was that girl. I always sort of thought

I don't need people to tell me that I

look nice like it

but I think then I did because I was

really vulnerable like I just had all

this filler and removed. No one had

really seen me like that. I looked

really different. I did and I think

people noticed it, but people really

admired it because it was different. It

was new. No one had no one had really

done that yet.

I I wouldn't want to say that I started

a trend, but I do feel like I did start

a bit of a trend with the sort of

dissolving. And again, I'm proud of that

because yeah, I might have been a bit

uneasy about it at first, but now loads

of people are doing it and I love it.

It's like an amazing movement. And with

the with the brands that you're involved

in in the businesses you run, do you now

seek out models and influencers and

creators that are representing that more

natural look as well?

I wouldn't even say so because as I said

before, I don't think filler is a bad

thing. If it's done safely and it's done

in a way that makes a girl feel more or

a guy feel more confident, then then

that's great. Whatever makes that person

feel amazing, that's what I like. kind

of a model comes in and we like her and

she's got a face full of filler. That's

not a problem because another girl

that's looking at that campaign also

might have a face full of filler. You

know, again, it's I don't really judge

people based on things like that. I made

a mistake with it once and but at one

point I loved it and it did make me feel

confident. So, no, I think we just like

when we're booking models for filter and

things. We just want to be relatable and

we want to sort of have a girl modeling

our the fake tan that that lots of girls

can relate to. That's why we use always

use multiple models in our campaigns and

plus size and we we we try and sort of

cater to everybody.

Imposter syndrome when people rise very

very quickly into high places they often

talk about this feeling of imposter

syndrome where they you know inside them

maybe they're still that girl from

Hitchin but they're in these like big

rooms with these big things talking

about big ideas and do you ever feel

that? Um, I I guess I'm I'm extremely

honest when I need to ask questions when

I don't understand what the hell's going

on. Like I actually said to Fran, I was

like, I bet Steven's going to use loads

of words that I have no idea what they

mean and I'm just going to have to sit

here and pretend that I have a clue what

he's on about when really I don't.

Has that happened yet?

No.

But when I was listening to your one

with Patricia Bright, you said a few

words and I was like, don't know what

that means. And I was like, it's

definitely that's going to happen. But

I'm really honest. I'm really

transparent when I'll be in finance

meetings with Fran and we'll be talking

about gross profit and I and I say can

we just rewind? I have no idea what

we're talking about here and I'm really

really transparent with that. Like I

tried to just remember I am 22. They

didn't teach me this stuff in school.

They they really didn't. And I I talking

about mortgages and stuff. I didn't know

what a mortgage was until a few months

ago. I'll be honest cuz when I started

looking at buying a house I was like so

what is a mortgage? Cuz I didn't know.

And I think um that's how I've sort of

gotten away from that like imposter

syndrome. I just I I just ask I just ask

the questions. I'm not embarrassed. And

um I've had to learn a lot really

quickly. I didn't know anything at the

start of this process. I didn't know I

don't think I I hadn't earned enough

money to even pay a tax bill before. So

I didn't understand. I was making £1,000

a month before the show. So I'd never

paid a tax bill. Like it and I it was it

was a lot of learning very quickly. And

I've just always asked. I'm not afraid

to ask. I think that's a really

important thing. Don't be afraid to ask

if you don't know. For me, that's it's

so inspiring to hear that answer because

I've been in that exact same situation.

I was in boardrooms as well when I was

22 years old and you're sat there,

you're think you're looking around the

room and there's people double your age

and of course it's easy to feel like um

you're inadequate or you're an imposttor

in that room. But the thing that I

always fell back on was this

understanding that I'm in that room for

a reason. There's something that I have

that those men that are double my age in

suits that have gray hair don't have.

And that's my specialty. That's the

reason I'm there. Um, they have things I

don't have. I have things they don't

have. And I think for me, the thing

that's made me feel comfortable in

intimidating situations, whether it's

dragon's den or being in boardrooms out

of my depth at a very, very young age,

is continually reminding myself that I

am there for a reason, too. And there's

something that I know. There's some, in

your case, you know, unbelievable

creativity and understanding of the

customer that has put me there. And I

think what you've realized is incredibly

important. You don't have to speak on

things you don't know. And as a young

person in these in these very

intimidating foreign situations like the

boardroom, you don't have to pretend you

know everything. You can just wait and

have the confidence to speak on the

things that you know well, that you know

better than everybody. And I just think

that's so incredibly important that when

you are in intimidating situations as a

young person in business or in your

career, you got to know that you're

there for a reason, too.

Yeah.

You're you're bringing value to that

room, too. You don't have to speak on

everything, but you are there for a

reason. When when I read about your

story, when I I've watched you over the

years and I've been close to people that

you're close to, um I could not believe

for the life of me when my team told me

you were 22. I like I I was like, "Yeah,

sure." Like Googled it myself and I was

like, "Wikipedia is wrong as well."

Because it doesn't make sense, right?

And it it as you say there are so many

like fundamental things about business

and money and life and finance that must

just now be like

thrown at you

and um and to be honest they're thrown

at everybody, right? Um especially when

we you know we start thinking about

mortgages and stuff

in terms of money and finance. What are

some of the lessons that you've you've

had to learn um or the the advice you

would give to people that are listening

to make sure that they don't blow all

their money and get end up in jail?

I don't think I'm the I'll be honest, I

don't think I'm there yet myself to give

advice. I'm still learning. I I have

yeah a a large amount of money for

someone my age and I'm I have to sort of

rely on people around me to advise me

with it. like I've just started

investing which has been a huge

interesting new chapter for me. I hadn't

got a clue about investing but I know

it's really important. I knew it's a

it's a key thing and I need to do it. I

didn't know where to start. So, I've

I've been learning about that, which has

been really interesting. But I know it

is cliche and I know everyone says it,

but because you don't learn these things

in school, like it is so daunting and my

situation is so niche in that I came

into a large amount of money so quickly

and it was so vulnerable. Like I had to

sort of like get my parents on board

with it because I just you trust all

these people, but it it was so scary.

I'd say it's probably the most daunting

thing really. Like come now and this new

world of like I didn't have literally a

pot to piss in before and now I'm like

dealing with these huge banks and

they're like it's it's mental. It's it's

and I don't want to I wouldn't even give

advice because I'm still learning and

I'm not afraid to say that.

I'm learning every day with it. Um but

yeah, it's it is daunting. It's a whole

new world.

On the we talked a little bit earlier

about we kind of touched on mental

health. One of the things that I was

really inspired by is you you gave the

profits from your one of your PLT ranges

to the charity mind, the mental health

charity.

Yeah.

Why did you do that?

Well, it was it was shortly after

Caroline Flack had passed away.

Um which was obviously heartbreaking and

it was a huge huge huge shock. Um and

myself and PLT we'd planned this huge

launch party and a big launch dinner and

and we I was there getting ready for it.

We canled it on the night because we

just found out the news and it was just

it wasn't right. It just it didn't feel

right and the only way it would feel

rightly releasing the collection is if

we did donate the the profits made to

mind um at that time and it was just it

was a really tricky time and I think I'm

so proud to to be a part of PLT in a way

that they were so on board with it

straight away and it was totally my idea

and I went to them and I said this is

what needs to happen and they were like

yeah it wasn't even a hesitation. It

wasn't like no but we need to make money

back. No, they they totally understood.

Um, yeah, and I'm I'm blessed to work

with PLT so closely because they're

they're just they were amazing at that

time.

Was that one of the things on your

proverbial mood board that becoming the

creative director of PLT? Did you ever

dream about that? What was the and how

did that all come about?

Do you know with Pretty Little Thing?

It's It was crazy because I knew when I

started working with them, it was like I

I had this feeling that it was going to

go bigger than I had anticipated. We

bought out these collections and bought

out these edits and it was just growing

and growing and my growth was was going

up and and it just wasn't slowing down

and I created such a close relationship

with PLT and they they we really

understood each other and it just grew

past that point of being an influencer

cuz I don't really count myself as an