She was extraordinary.

Um, my mother taught me a lot about just

like

bringing intention to what you do.

Bringing sorry

and being the child of accomplished

parents. Most people thought that I

would lack the ambition, the

preparedness, but my mother taught me

that being underestimated is not a bad

thing. It's very powerful thing actually

and it almost always worked to the

detriment of the person who

underestimated me.

>> From real estate to her own

multi-million dollar fashion line,

Ivanka Trump continues to carve her own

path into the business world, succeeding

at every turn.

>> And then you learn 2 weeks before he

announces your father decides he wants

to be president of the United States.

Did you have any sense that this was at

all on the horizon?

>> Not really. And then when he pulled the

trigger, it was full steam. Well, most

people wouldn't give up an $800 million

annual business to go into government.

Why did you?

>> He asked us for help. He's like, "But I

have to warn you. They're going to come

at you hard. They're probably going to

hate you." But one of the things I've

learned in moments of tremendous

pressure and scrutiny where any slip up

is completely weaponized against you is

to find the signal in the noise. I just

don't get distracted by the outside

noise. That's probably the thing that

has been most helpful to me in terms of

performance and success because you have

a choice only in how you respond.

>> You've said politics is a pretty dark

world. This is quite a difficult

question to ask, but when you heard the

news that there was an assassination

attempt on your father's life, do you

remember where you were and like what's

that like as a daughter?

This is super interesting to me. My team

given me this report to show me how many

of you that watch this show subscribe.

And some of you have told us according

to this that you are unsubscribed from

the channel randomly. So favor to ask

all of you. Please could you check right

now if you've hit the subscribe button.

If you are a regular viewer of the show

and you like what we do here, we're

approaching quite a significant landmark

on this show in terms of a subscriber

number. So, if there was one simple free

thing that you could do to help us, my

team, everyone here, to keep this show

free, to keep it improving year over

year and week over week, it is just to

hit that subscribe button and to double

check if you've hit it. Only thing I'll

ever ask of you, do we have a deal? If

you do it, I'll tell you what I'll do.

I'll make sure every single week, every

single month, we fight harder and harder

and harder and harder to bring you the

guests and conversations that you want

to hear. I've stayed true to that

promise since the very beginning of the

D of Sio, and I will not let you down.

Please help us. Really appreciate it.

Let's get on with the show.

>> Ivanka, you um you don't do many

interviews, do you?

>> Not really. No.

>> Why don't you do much media stuff or

podcasting or interviews?

>> I actually don't know. I think I'm I get

sort of really locked in and heads down

on what I'm working on

>> that

I tend to kind of put on blinders and

just go, but I like to have

conversations in longer form with people

that I admire.

>> I think the reason why I um I do this is

because I see I naturally see everybody

as like a jigsaw puzzle.

>> And you've lived an extraordinary life.

you've lived an extraordinary atypical

>> life that I mean it's safe to say almost

nobody on planet earth has has ever

experienced and so I think I asked that

question just to be completely honest at

the top because the life you've lived

that we'll get into is is one that would

have shaped you in a number of ways and

one of them is I think from what I read

things that you had said and different

experiences you had as a child is just

like trusting people

>> you know it's interesting I I grew up

the child of wealthy and accomplished

parents.

>> And so I do think there's like um a

natural barrier that goes up. You're

you're worried about people, especially

when you're a kid, um liking you for the

wrong reasons. I see this now with my

son. You know, he wants to be loved by

his friends, and I appreciate that.

That's that's good for who he is, not

for who we are, and certainly not for

what we have. So I do think being the

child of of of famous um parents and

living such a privileged life, I had

this

guard and um that guard served me really

well for a long time. Like I I didn't

have any friends despite the

really tumultuous

life that I've had, ups and downs, who

really disappointed me. meaning close

close close friends who who didn't show

up for me or or who changed because of

my circumstances or

>> what was happening around me and I've

learned for me I mean you were saying

the purpose of life for me it's you know

the expansion and not contraction of the

heart and that's hard as you get older

you know how do you live a life of of

service and rooted in and love and

connection and I've learned more and

more that those walls

they don't serve you and the only way to

have connection which is so fundamental

to the human experience is to um is to

build it and that requires trust.

>> So I have to trust people. Now I have a

good radar. I'm not foolish. I'm

>> I think I'm a very good read of people

and I think it's one of um my strengths

>> and I think it's why I haven't been

surprised by a lot of people. Um, so I

read pretty quickly, but I also have had

to teach myself rather than grow sort of

cynical as one tends to as they get

older. I've really actually taught

myself to be more trusting. And to the

extent that means periodically I'll be

burned like that's I'm okay with that

trade-off because I think it will lead

to more meaningful connections in my

life.

>> Probably nets out better right in the

long term.

>> I think so. I have this photo here of a

very smaller and

>> so funny. I look at this and I see my

daughter.

>> Really?

>> That was like the first thing when I saw

that photo.

>> At what age did you realize that life

for you was slightly different from the

average person? Like when does a child

realize that?

>> H

I think there was always a lot of

media attention and scrutiny. You see

it, you experience it very early on. And

I think my parents did a really good job

trying to shelter us from it. And it was

different then without social media. You

know, not everyone I think the

experience our children have where

anywhere they go people have a recording

device in their hands, their iPhone um

and can take pictures of them and you

know it's so um you're so exposed during

um during your formative years and

thankfully I did not have that growing

up but there were times I felt it. I

remember

I wanted to be a dancer, a ballet

dancer. And you know, my mom um was an

incredible skier. She skied on the

national team for then Czechoslovakia,

now Czech Republic. And so she really

believed in the importance of of sport

for cultivating discipline and um so she

really encouraged this. And I was

dancing at Giuliard, the school of

American Ballet here in New York. I was

in the Nutcracker and I remember I was

probably eight and I was, you know, like

some small role in the Nutcracker. I was

a party girl and an angel. Those were

like the entry roles where you like

dance at the party, uh, where the the

man with the Nutcracker arrives and then

you're in that angel scene. And I

remember being so excited and was my

first Nutcracker.

And, um, Michael Jackson had just moved

into Trump Tower and was literally our

neighbor in Trump Tower. And my father

sees him one day, you know, passing in

the lobby. I'm with him. I said, 'You

know, my daughter's in the Nutcracker.

You should come. You should come see a

performance. So, he comes to the

Nutcracker with my father at the height

of his fame to watch me dance. And now

this in retrospect could be like, wow,

what a cool experience. But I was

horrified. I'm like, this is I was so

embarrassed. I thought we had ruined the

Nutcracker. Everyone was dancing with

one glove. people who produced the show

were, you know, hysterical that everyone

was dancing with one glove. I thought it

was all my fault and this was like just

a wild childhood experience. I had

things like that happen that were so far

from normal that it's actually like

comical in retrospect, but I think the

the dayto-day was like really grounded.

My grandmother and uh and grandfather

before he passed on my mother's side

really raised us. My grandmother cooked

every meal we ate for, you know, most of

my childhood.

>> And uh Bubby

>> Bubby Bubby.

>> Yeah. So she taught me um a type of

unconditional love and tenderness and um

I think more than anything she was just

this un that's her. She's um

unbelievably nurturing. I'd come home

from school and, you know, before I'd be

out of the shower, she would have

laundered my clothes and folded them and

put them back on my bed. She was always

feeding me and food for her was very

much like an expression of love. I

remember when I became a teenager and

I'd sleep later and later, she'd wake me

up for lunch, you know, just like, god

forbid I wasn't being fed at all at all

hours. But

>> I can see she means the world to you.

>> She does. She's 98 years old and um you

know her health has suffered and you

know it's it's been a little bit of a

difficult time for her but I I feel so

strongly for for me and my children to

have the experience to be there for her

in just like a small fraction of the way

that she was there for me is such an

extraordinary privilege. and for them to

grow up with her at our table every

single meal um each night and her

telling her stories and stories of my

mother who they sadly didn't get to

know. Um

>> are you okay? I can see

>> No, I'm Yes, I'm great. I I have a lot

of um I have a lot of love for this

woman. So,

This doesn't happen to me often.

>> What is that um mixture of emotions that

you're experiencing?

>> Um

she taught me so much just about love

and we were talking before about

connection. Um,

and uh, you know, it's it's been hard to

see her now as she as she struggles, but

um,

but she's uh, it's a blessing to have

her in our home and living with us and

very special person.

Maybe I'll have a tissue.

Thank you.

It's a real credit to her.

>> Yeah.

>> It's often a testament um to the person

and the value that they've added to your

life and how they were there for you

that you would feel

feel the way you do about her and that's

so like visible in your face. You know,

she must have been quite formative.

>> Oh, for sure. Um for sure.

So, she's been

she's an amazing person.

You said that she she was really taking

care of you

>> and and sort of at the age of 10. Mother

and father, I'm assuming very very busy.

>> Yeah.

>> Explain that to me.

>> You know, my mother was an incredible

trailblazer. Um an amazing example for

me of

strength and resilience and glamour and

um determination and ambition. And she

was a great mother, too.

But she would also say like she couldn't

do it alone and she wasn't pretending

she could. So she surrounded us with

people who loved us. We had um two

amazing nannies. One of them worked for

my mother until the day she died. The

other um is worked for my mother until

the day my mother died um and still

works with us today. She worked as after

we grew up she worked as my mother's

personal assistant. So they were very

much part of our lives and and part of

our extended family and of course my

grandmother who she trusted completely

with us. So so she showed me a lot at a

time when

you know not many women were doing what

my mother was doing um inside the

boardroom and on the construction sites

all the time by the way with 5-in heels

and like perfectly caught hair. So she

made it look incredibly easy, but it was

and continues to be very challenging to

balance work and life like that,

especially at a time where what she was

doing was so singular. So she she really

and my mother served as an unbelievable

role model for me for what is possible.

How to be an amazing mother who is

loving and nurturing and fun and

provides for her children and and also

to be unadashedly

um

and doggedly pursuing one's

goals in in a professional capacity. So

she did that when she was married to my

father. she did that um following their

divorce and um and really was just an

amazing an amazing mentor for me. You're

growing up in a context where your

family are privileged, they have um they

have no notoriety and the both parents

are quite absent by way of them being so

busy and they're also kind of

>> I wouldn't say absent but

>> you know my mother wasn't home cooking

us meals. my grandmother was.

>> Mhm.

>> But my mother was home when we ate them

and then she'd go out again. You know,

her and my father were actively building

their life and pursuing their passions.

And for my mom, much like me today, you

know, one of her creative expressions

came in the form of design and

architecture. She wasn't absent and and

you know, neither was my father. So, he

was filled more typical of that

generation male role where he was less

like present. But there was never a

doubt in my mind that I was his top

priority and that he was available to

me. So I used to call him from the pay

phone at uh at Chapen. It was in a broom

closet and never once did he not pick up

and sometimes his office would be filled

with people of um you know he'd be in

the middle of a deal or a negotiation or

some politician or whatever it was and

he'd always put me on speaker phone and

then start the conversation by telling

everyone how I got great grades and I'd

start to blush. Um but he always picked

up.

>> They weren't absent. Did I what?

>> Miss him?

>> No, because I didn't feel like they I

didn't feel like he was absent. it was

just different like he wasn't attending

all of our sports games but by the way

few parents were um you know four

decades ago there's a lot more sort of

active participation like the way I am

in my kids' life the way my husband is I

I think it is you know a little

different especially um for fathers

today than than 30 years ago

>> if I sat Avana your mother here next to

us at the same age you are now what

would be the the the fundamental

differences in in those individuals

You know, it's funny. I think back now

and um my mother

and I are both incredibly similar and

very different. So, she had like

over-the-top style and glamour, you

know, and I think in some ways it was a

reaction to the austerity and the

control of growing up in a communist

country in in then Czechoslovakia.

Like, nobody was going to tell her what

to do. nobody was going to tell her what

to say. So, she actually would make my

father look pissy and was hysterical. I

mean, I spent much of my childhood being

like, "Oh, mom, please stop." You know,

it was really interesting. Um, I feel

like today

because my mother passed away um

unexpectedly um from a fall a few years

ago,

there were just like I had a lot of

questions and um and I really dug into

her story and her history and

um and really studied her almost in a

way that I wish I had done when she was

living and I could speak to her

directly. And I think I understand her a

because I'm at a level of maturity and

I've have some of the same issues, you

know, having young children. And I think

I understand her though better today

than I did in some ways in in her life.

Like I see her more fully.

>> And what did you understand more about

her that you didn't understand while she

was here after she passed? She wrote a

book in the final years of her life that

talked a lot more about her childhood

and I think not uncommon um for people

who have experienced you know a lot of

hardship sometimes they compartmentalize

and it's like forward only and this

whole part of her life she never talked

about and I think when you're younger

you ask a lot less questions like now I

would tell everyone who's listening like

really ask the questions especially if

people are a bit of a vault and are less

inclined to to look back in the past

because I you know all of her life

experience very much shaped her.

>> This was a beautiful photo that I found

of of you and I.

>> That was in uh in Mara Lago on my uh

childhood bed. Very uh ornate.

Um, yeah, she was really I mean she was

impossibly glamorous.

>> Yeah, I couldn't find a photo where she

didn't like incredible photos.

>> 9 years old, your mother and father

split up, divorced.

>> It was quite well publicized. Um, that

your father had an affair with somebody.

And this is actually where the quote

that I referenced earlier about trust

comes in because

>> quite remarkably reporters were waiting

outside of your school to take photos of

you and ask questions about your your

father's affair. And the quote that I

read in GQ said this is a quote from

you. If I didn't have that lesson, I

don't know that I'd be tough. It taught

me not to trust anybody. You can never

let your guard down. And I never really

have since that time.

So that's probably the 25year-old

version of me

>> as as you know there's a lot of truth in

it and I think certain defense

mechanisms we create for ourselves are

actually healthy

>> because it was healthy for me not to be

trusting before I had honed my own

instincts and had learn to understand

people and read people. So I think there

was nothing wrong with a 25 or

27year-old

with my lived experience answering that

way. But um but I do like

>> I completely understand though like

every part of me completely understands

that reaction to that event at like 9

years old.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean reporters being at your school or

just generally you know how that must

have been as as a kid in school. Well,

there was a level of aggression that

like even today wouldn't exist with the

paparazzi then, like to be shouting

things and like reading um quotes from

from tabloids to me as I'm leaving

school. To put this in context, this

divorce apparently garnered more

headlines than the OJ Simpson trial. So,

that was a lot. The difference is that

once I stepped into my home, it was a

safe place. you know, unless the TVs

were blaring, which obviously they

weren't during that period of time. So,

I think the difference today for parents

and that I think about a lot with my

kids is you just can't protect them in

the same way. Like social media

amplifies everything. So, while that

experience with those reporters was

extremely combative and aggressive and

like totally unacceptable in a way that

I don't think society would allow today,

today it's very much more in children's

faces. you know, they can acquire the

information they need. And obviously,

when you're young, you're curious.

>> Again, I'm trying to like world build in

my head because I think understanding

that early context helps us understand

everybody. And if that was my early

context, I think you'd be you'd see the

fingerprints on me today,

>> you know?

>> Well, I think we're all, you know, I

think about it with my own children.

like I

I grew up with a lot of privilege and um

and I've lived an extraordinary life and

you know I never worried where my next

meal came from. I never worried about

being able to pay for the best school

that I was able to get into. And so by

so many metrics my life was extremely

comfortable and easy. And I do think

back like some of the challenges the the

moments that were disgusting or

uncomfortable or you know even just the

fact of um my parents' marriage being to

torn apart.

I think those create the pressure that

turns you into who you become.

>> Did you know what it meant at 9 years

old? Cuz I again I transport myself

back.

>> I probably then you couldn't look things

up as easily. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Newspaper,

>> you know, I I don't know what I thought.

I I think I was probably more scared

than anything of like the mob and the

lights and um the surprise of it all. Um

>> do you know what them separating me?

Like did they have a conversation with

you and say, you know, we're we're

splitting up or was it

>> They did. And I think the experience I

had, albeit

it was televised. Um, but it was very

much like any other child who's dying

whose parents are separating. You start

to wonder,

you know, will I be loved? Will I be

forgotten? What does this mean? Um, you

want them to get back together. You're

hoping. You're trying to create peace

between them. Um, rekindle the love. All

the things that I think are like deeply

normal and and human. And you found out

about the divorce by seeing a newspaper

on your way to school one day.

>> Um, yes.

That wasn't the plan. Um, they used to

have uh the big news boxes with the

newspaper. So,

>> what did it say?

>> My parents had sat me down that

afternoon. That's when they had intended

to, but it had it had come out in the

morning.

>> What did the newspaper say?

>> I don't remember. I remember the photo.

There was a picture of them with a rip

down the middle. It was not an easy

situation for a child. But um that

experience I always look for like what

is the positive in any situation and you

know the positive for me and my siblings

were we really like bonded in a

different type of way because we were

going through it together.

>> It must be so interesting being in your

shoes because you look me and you're

both aware that people they want to

drive a a wedge between you and your

father. They want a headline. They want

you to say something. I can see it

within you that you have a real desire

to be like open and transparent, but if

I was in your shoes, I'd be thinking

like everyone's trying to trip me out.

Everyone's trying to make a headline um

on on me and my life. They want to drive

a wedge between me and my father. It's

difficult. It must be difficult. Like

even I think about it as a podcast. The

podcast, you know, the podcast gets big.

I say the wrong line,

>> you know. You know, I think one of the

things I've learned under moments in my

life of tremendous sort of pressure and

scrutiny is um to like find the signal

in the noise. And that's probably the

thing that has been most helpful to me.

It can become quite turbulent. I find

myself sometimes literally like dancing

in the eye of the hurricane. It's been

many years of my life, but there's a lot

of like peace within me. So I just don't

get distracted by by the outside noise

and um and I think if you know what you

stand for then it really is just noise.

>> When did you have to learn this? Because

am I right in thinking you this is the

first time that I saw the Trump family

during the apprentice. So obviously you

know growing up as a kid big fan of

business we had the UK apprentice but

the US one was much more interesting in

my in my opinion.

>> So this is when I first understand who

your father is and who you are. What was

the sentiment around you as a family at

this point? Because again, people can't

remember

>> pre vortex.

>> It was the biggest show in the world at

one point. Um, it was this massive

phenomenon. you know, he had been very

famous in sort of New York and in real

estate and in business circles, but this

kind of like expanded awareness of him

beyond those New York circles onto

um a global stage. So, there was a lot

of attention and a lot of excitement.

You know, he was very similar to how he

is now. He said exactly what he was

thinking, which could be polarizing at

times, but it's part of what people

loved about him. I think the thing about

my father and my mother is they're like

deeply authentic. So you can disagree,

but there's a certain amount of like

respect for the cander of it. Um, and

the lack of fear to say what you're

thinking because so many people are sort

of afraid to be them true, their true

selves.

>> You're more delicate with your words.

>> Yeah, but I know exactly who I am.

That's why the noise doesn't affect me.

I'm really proud of the fact that, you

know, I've lived through some incredibly

intense times where people are taking

cheap shots and swinging and I don't

punch back because I don't

believe in

sort of spending my time and focus like

being combative like jumping into that

particular arena and like the nasty

swirl of social media. It's just it's

not for me and I've been consistent in

that my whole life and I feel like that

sets an amazing example to my children.

>> Where did you learn that? What is it

that you've read? What are the sort of

>> you just have to be yourself and you

have to be true to yourself and like I

don't allow that noise to distract me.

We were talking um earlier about

stoicism. I think like Marcus Aurelius's

meditations is so informative on so many

levels. I mean here you have somebody

who was literally an emperor and he's

writing this journal in a tent in a

battlefield. So his perspective is

amazing and he once wrote that the soul

becomes dyed the color of its thoughts

and I think about that all the time. The

cost to me of living in a way that's

inconsistent and not aligned with what

feels right, what models the right thing

for my children, what feels inherently

true to me. It's too expensive. it's too

expensive for for my soul, so I won't do

it. So, you know, there there have been

times when the incoming and I say, well,

but that isn't right or this isn't right

or I want to correct it. And then I say

like, what's the cost of doing it? Theo

has another great quote. It's something

paraphrasing to the effect of, you know,

the cost of anything is the amount of

your life you're willing to exchange for

it. I focus on those things that like

elevate my soul, um my my joy, my

happiness, my connection to the people I

love and care about.

>> Have you always been there? Because you

seem more stoic now, but you know,

>> I have like I'm much more naturally like

this. Like I feel things like a lot of

things.

>> You're a bit of an empath, right?

>> Oh, for sure.

>> Okay. Yeah, that makes sense.

>> Uh so I have not always been like this.

It's like I had to work to be like this

and I had to I think mature and I had to

gain like confidence and it took me a

while to really let people in. And I

think it was after my children were born

that I really experienced a different

type of love. It like cracks you open

and you're never the same, you know, and

and you want more of that feeling. Like

I I'm very intentional about everything

that I do. even sitting here today like

I I have zero interest in spending two

hours having a conversation with

somebody I think is like a bully um

because they get good podcast you know

like I I like having conversations with

people I think are interesting and

curious but in business as well like I'm

I'm you know I do less things and I do

them with a lot more focus and

intention. You've lived an extraordinary

life and it's a very anomalous one. But

actually the lesson there about being

intentional

in every sense of the word, not just

with what you do every day, but also

what you let occupy your mind is one

that I think everybody listening

>> might derive a lot of value from because

we live everybody lives on a spectrum of

the world clawing at them

>> to deviate from who they are. um some

you know one end of the spectrum if I

take myself back to when I was I don't

know 16 years old the world you know

other than my mother telling me she

wanted me to go be doctor lawyer

whatever the world wasn't really pulling

me away from myself but then on the

other end of the spectrum you know I'm

33 now you know every time I have a

podcast guest on someone's mad at me

>> and everything I say can be spun in

whatever so you also on this side of the

spectrum you have to get really really

clear as you said on like who you are

and what matters

>> well I think that's key like if if you

don't know who you are the mob wins.

>> Oh, 100%.

>> Because they tell you who you are and

then you start to believe it.

>> Once you know who you are,

>> you feel sorry for the people who are

like screaming at each other on on

social media. It takes like a beat to

get there. Like I think it it takes a

lot of work to to really understand

yourself. And I think sometimes

modern society it praises sort of speed

and fast pace and um you know

accessibility and being available and

responding quickly then people wonder

like why don't they know themselves like

why aren't they connected to something

bigger and they're not taking the time.

I take time to shut down and like really

go inward and ask myself every time I

have a big decision like what feels

right and even if it's hard to make a

decision like whether it's a no or a yes

if it feels aligned with your values and

who you are like it never is a mistake

ever.

>> You grew up in the uh you know with a

with a family and a father that are very

prominent. at some point do you have to

make the decision to become your own

person like because I was wondering if

in that context you there's a there's a

pressure to kind of like be the same

person in every regard

>> to believe all the same things to live

the same life to go the same path

>> is there some point in your journey

where you where you go do you know what

I've actually got to like figure out I

can see a little smirk in the corner of

your mouth

>> well no I think about it with my own

children because as a parent it's very

easy to see them as

you know a lot of parents they they view

their children as extens ions of

themselves and I really try not to do

that. Like they are their own people

just like I'm my own person sometimes in

the context of a broader public

narrative.

Everything's sort of comingled and

related. But we're all our own people.

We obviously have conditioning. We have

learned behaviors. We have um some of

which are great. Some of which we spend

part of our adulthood um unwinding.

But we're all like fundamentally unique

and special. And I work really hard to

make sure my kids see themselves, each

of them individually, that they know how

much I love them as like perfect,

complete human beings, not I love you

because of this accomplishment or

because of this sort of external

validation that you've received because

you're sort of perfect as as you are and

like in your essence. So, so my parents

taught me a lot a lot. I love them so

much. I'm like them in some ways. I'm

very dissimilar to them in other ways.

But even though I was like the

peacemaker in our house, I was also like

very like true to myself. And they

created and I give them credit for this,

they created an environment where like

disscent was okay. And so I could agree

or disagree and share it with each of

them and um do so respectfully and and

privately. and that was our home.

>> Um, you started off in real estate. You

you worked in a It sounded like to me

you were basically an intern at a a a

different real estate company before

moving into the the family business and

in the family business, you know,

heavily male-dominated space. I heard

you talk about how actually being a

woman in that context proved to be in

your mind an advantage of sorts. What is

the the context there? And I'm in 2026

right now, so I don't have the

perspective of what it was like to be a

young woman in the real estate industry,

presuming in New York. Yeah.

>> Some sort of 20 years ago.

>> Well, I think I was like underestimated

twice. First, being the child of

accomplished parents. There was an

expectation that I on one hand some

people thought I was like a savant

because I was their child but most

people

thought they would be um that I would

phone it in that I would lack sort of

the thought process, the ambition, the

preparedness. So, I I always worked like

twice as hard as everyone else to sort

of prove my worth and prove um my

ability to to be in these rooms where

truthfully often times I was in them

before I was prepared to be in them. So,

that was, you know, on my mind. But I

think being underestimated is is not a

bad thing. I think it's like a very

powerful thing actually. And it almost

always worked to the detriment of the

person who underestimated me. So, I

think if you're somebody who's prepared

and somebody underestimates you, well,

guess what? They're not. So, when you're

dealing with people who are extremely

accomplished, like do the work. Like,

know what you're doing because probably

they haven't done the work when they

know they're dealing with you. And I

think as a young woman in real estate

especially, you know, there were there

were women in sales and there were women

in marketing, but there were very few

women in development and construction

and finance and acquisitions.

And

I think um I harnessed both the belief

some of it may be stemming from my own

insecurity but the belief that the

people would underestimate me. I

harnessed that like sort of fear, that

sentiment and I used it to sort of

propel me and I used it to give me

motivation and and drive and then I also

would use it against the people who

underestimated me just because I I was

always prepared. I was overprepared. I I

always did the work. I heard you

described as um from people that worked

with you at the time a naturalb born

deal maker. And this kind of overlays

with what you're saying there that if

someone underestimates you, they're

actually setting themselves up to be

surprised or

>> Well, I'd prefer to be underestimated

than overestimated any day of the week.

>> Give me specifics on what what

environment that creates for you to then

win in a deal. I think in in negotiation

it's like incredibly important to

know what the other person wants.

Sometimes you can learn that through

research. Very infrequently though, like

you have to listen. Like you're probably

a great negotiator because you're an

incredible listener. Silence can also be

a weapon. People get very uncomfortable

in moments of silence and then they

start talking. And I think the more you

can get a person to share with you

what they consider to be a win, the more

you can potentially accomplish something

where you give

where you really have like a mutual

win-win. Like I've seen negotiations

where you give up very little, but the

person feels incredibly happy because

it's what they wanted.

>> Yeah.

>> Right. Now, when you're dealing with

like a negotiation that's purely price,

that's kind of different. That's like a

very simple transaction. It's, you know,

but very few negotiations are purely

that, you know, one of first and

foremost in a negotiation like like make

sure you understand what the other

person wants because you may be able to

give it to them at at very little cost

and then everyone's happy. And I also

think there's a lot of value in like

authentically building relationships.

though, you know, some of the the best

deals I ever did were uh derivatives of

really like getting to know someone like

authentically and genuinely. And um they

want you to win, you want them to win.

And those are are like really beautiful

types of transactions. And you know, I

believe in you know, a lot of the

projects I'm working on now are about

like creating things. Like I like

building tangible things. I like

creating things that um that uplift. to

like solving challenging problems and um

and you don't do that alone. You do that

through partnership. You do that through

coalitions of people who share your

passion and interest and um and that's

very rewarding.

>> When you hire people, what are you

looking for for your businesses? Are

there I mean, everyone's got their own

hiring bias and it often stems from

their past experiences who's burnt them

in the past. when you're looking to hire

someone for one of your organizations or

for some of the projects we'll talk

about in a second, what what are the

like the key characteristics?

>> I think first and foremost, you want

someone with a strong sense of self and

a strong like orientation towards like

agency, like somebody who has agency.

It's very hard to teach people, you

know, you could have a brilliant person,

but if they don't have like good

judgment or if they're not like a

self-starter, it's very hard to give

them that. It's very hard to sort of

give them good judgment. And some of

it's like street smarts, right? We

talked before about, you know, how can

you both be trustworthy

and not be disappointed or burn too

often? You have an instinct about a

person

>> and you can read a room and and that's

like EQ skills and those are those are a

little bit harder to teach. So, I look

for that.

>> I look for good people at the end of the

day. like I don't want to do a deal with

I don't want to work with people I don't

enjoy that I don't think are like good

people um because I don't want to spend

my time with somebody who I don't trust

or who I don't respect. So that's like

really core and fundamental for me. you

know, for somebody who's working with

me, I actually tell my kids this all the

time because I think so much of the

outside world is like, "Impress me by

what you do." Like, "Impress me by what

you accomplish. The grades, the

trophies, the the badges of like

external validation and success." Like,

our whole life is oriented towards that,

the validation that comes from the

outside world. So like I always want my

kids to know like how I'm going to

validate them is like be a good person.

Like you want to impress me like be a

good person.

>> Was that the case for you? Cuz when I

look at

>> Probably not.

>> I look at the Trump family for me as an

outsider looked like a competition

between siblings and even when I think

about your father

>> I think because we're so competitive and

hard. Yeah. No, I think um I think it

all like worked out and we're all I I

like to think you know my my siblings

and I grew up with um like good values

and uh but no like we were in a more

like I was like very competitive with my

siblings like you know my mom was like a

disciplinarian there was like a high

expectation of like performance and

success um

>> and when you're in that when you're

calling collect your father he's

reciting your great grades to the room

of people He's in. No, no, no. That was

>> That mattered. And And it matters to a

lot of parents. And by the way, it's not

bad like having an incredibly high

standard. And to some degree,

>> Yeah. And I think look, I I think it's

>> a lot of parents like I think especially

like my mom was an immigrant to this

country, there's like a high standard.

Um and uh and she didn't like humor

fools, right? One of the things I'm most

proud of, I look at my daughter and

there's no bar I could set for her that

the bar she sets for herself isn't

higher. So like I actually view my job

as a parent with her is to like give her

permission to not like strive for

perfection.

>> You go on to build a business in the

jewelry industry and fashion industry.

Um there was I was reading about there

was a point in your career where you

were you were offered a job by Anna

Wintor. Yeah.

>> At Vogue. And your I think your father

did kind of want you to go in that

direction, but you wanted to go in the

real estate business direction.

>> She called me actually on the day I

graduated from university. I went to

Warden School of Business at University

of Pennsylvania and she offered me a job

at Vogue and I was like incredibly

honored and flattered and groggy because

she called me at 8:00 in the morning

which calling a college student at 8:00

in the morning, you might as well call

them at 4:30 in the morning, you know?

like that was that I was like deeply

aware from when I was a young girl that

like I wanted to go into real estate.

Life has taken me in different

directions and and interestingly now I'm

returning with some amazing projects

back to my real estate roots. But I love

architecture. I love design. I love it

as an expression of self. If you look at

a city skyline and it's an expression of

like a vision for

um of hope and optimism and the amount

of courage that took to build each of

those buildings and it's it's

extraordinary.

>> But you did go into the fine jewelry at

26 years old and then at 33 you launched

Ivanka Trump.com and you were in a huge

amount of major retailers including

Nordstrom, Neiman Marcus and that's

really also that's what I knew you first

for. I knew you for running a fashion

business which was doing exceptionally

well. I think from what I read it was

making hundreds of millions of dollars

and then you shut it down.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It was kind of like

lightning in a a bottle. I caught a

moment. So, I was um still sort of

leading the charge at our family real

estate business. I had young children at

home um or was just starting to have uh

children when when I first launched Fine

Jewelry. Ultimately, we ended up having

11 different categories, apparel,

footwear, sunglasses, fragrance. Um,

but we created an accessibly priced line

that was feminine and beautiful, but for

like a multi-dimensional woman. Like, at

the time when I was coming up, the

outfits that women were buying for work

were so far from aspirational and they

couldn't transition with the woman to

the date night. they would have that

evening or after work drinks with their

girlfriends. It was like nobody was

posting on Instagram like what they were

wearing to work. And so we thought like

let's bridge the gap and create

something for a modern woman. And it

caught fire. And it was

>> how big an amazing success. We were

doing um close to $800 million in sales

annually um when I shut it down when I

went into government. It was great. But

>> you were doing 800 million in sales

annually when you shut it down.

>> Yeah.

>> Why did you shut it down?

>> I went into government and you always

have to sort of be moving forward and I

had built a team of women who were

oriented towards forward momentum and I

had to put it on ice and this was all

just part of the rules of complying with

the office of government and ethics. So

they basically look at everything you

have and they say sell this, put this

into a trust, do this, do that, do this.

So you do that and and for my own

business, they weren't allowed to use my

image. They weren't allowed to grow the

business in terms of new accounts or

internationally. And that was fine for a

moment, but at the end of the day, you

need like growth. And so I thought it

would be easier to end on a high note

than to um allow the business to sort of

stagnate. And I also felt like for

myself, I'm always looking forward like

I don't like to look back. And I feel

the

experience of of this new experience, I

mean, serving was so expanding.

>> Most people wouldn't give up an $800

million annual business to go into

government.

>> Why did you,

>> you know, I I

>> It's your baby as well. You know, it's

like

>> Yeah. I, you know, I thought about the

version of me in 40 years that when

asked the question to serve by my

father, who at the time knew no one in

in Washington DC at all, said no and

just proceeded with life as usual. And

that didn't like sit right with me. So,

I had no intention of serving. And a few

weeks after he won, he asked Jared and

me to go with him and sort of help him

navigate this new environment. And my

eyes grew big. And he joked with me.

He's like, "But I have to warn you,

they're going to come at you hard.

They're probably going to hate you.

You're too young. You're too." And he

like, I'm like, "Oh my god." I'm like,

"What?" That was like the anti- sale.

But, you know, he asked us for help. Um,

and I feel incredibly

privileged that he gave us the

opportunity to serve a country we love

so much. We hadn't been expecting it. We

hadn't set up our lives for it. We were

loving the path we were on and and the

work we were doing. But you also, you

know, can't put your head in the sand

and like life had changed. As much as

I'd like to say like, oh, he wins

business as usual, there is no business

as usual. Your life has changed.

>> You didn't choose this though. In fact,

you didn't choose most of these things.

I look at your life and I go that from a

very young age you've not chosen the

context which you've been thrust into

because of your your father's ambitions

and I mean I can see it in your face

that it kind of rings true

>> but I think that's true for all of us

right to some degree like our path is

determined by our circumstance I

>> not really not really in the same way

>> this is a little bit different with

politics and the presidency but

>> but even from 9 years old you know

you're not choosing to leave school and

have reporters uh treat you like that

and you're not choosing these other

things along the way and then your

father decides he wants to be president

of the United States. It's not like he

had a political career where he like

built up slowly. It's like he woke up

one day and was like

>> was drinking water from a fire hose for

all of us. It was a lot. Normally you

cut your teeth on, you know, some local

election as a family have the

experience.

The first time he ever run for office

was president and he won. So, it was a

radical adjustment period for um for all

of us. But

>> did you think you would

>> Boy did it. Oh, yeah. I did.

>> I mean, it was it was hard to believe

myself because everyone was saying that

he wouldn't. And I'd say, "Well, these

people probably know what they're

talking about, but it felt like he

would." And, you know, so for me, that

time was extraordinary because I really

believed, you know, I lived in New York

City. I thought I was around surrounded

by diverse minds and opinions and

perspectives and viewpoints and I really

thought I had sort of a lot of exposure

to ideas and

his campaign like ripped it open for me

and that I realized like the bubble that

I was in and suddenly I got out into the

country and I heard from people who had

very divergent views on a number of

issues. Some of it reinforced my

existing beliefs. Other times it

completely changed my perspective and

and orientation. So it was extremely

mindexpanding. So when you ask like,

"Oh, why didn't I go back to what I was

doing?" I think like, you know, you you

get thrown into something and you learn

and you grow and you change. And um and

I felt as challenging it was as that

moment in my life to um to say yes when

when my father asked us to to go help

him. I felt like it was an amazing

privilege to be able to serve. So new

year always has a strange energy to it

because people start talking about their

goals, fresh starts and new habits. But

the reality is that most people carry

the same ideas they had last year into

the new year. I'm guilty of that too.

and they still don't end up doing

anything with them. And I get why

starting something new, especially if

it's a business or a project, is

overwhelming. Before you start, you're

looking for the perfect moment and to be

the perfect version of yourself when

really what matters most is taking that

first step. If you've had an idea for a

while, a product, a store, something

you've been sitting on, our sponsor,

Shopify, makes it easy to get started

because you can build your store, sell

on socials, take payments, use AI tools,

and manage everything all in one place.

So, if 2026 is the year you finally back

yourself, go to shopify.co.uk/bartlet

and start selling. And you can sign up

for a $1 per month trial right now, too.

Just go to shopify.co.uk/bartlet.

I promise you, you don't need to have it

all figured out. You just need to start.

I run multiple companies that have

multiple sales teams. And one of the

things as a founder of a company that's

often confusing is you find it hard to

figure out where sales are. So about 10

years ago, I started using Pipe Drive in

my former company and it's also the

reason why I switched over all of my

commercial teams in my current media

company called Steven.com to use Pipe

Drive as well. Not only do they sponsor

this show, but they've been an

incredibly effective way of scaling our

sales engine over the years. Pipe Drive

is an easy to use intelligent CRM. And

at its very core, it makes your sales

process visible through one dashboard. a

visual pipeline showing every deal, what

stage it's in, what needs to happen

next, and it's all in real time with no

delay. It doesn't magically close the

deal for you, of course, but it does

replace complexity with clarity. If you

want to join over a 100,000 companies

already using Piperive, you can use my

link for a 30-day free trial with no

credit card payment needed. Head to

piperive.com/ceeo

to get started. That's

piperive.com/ceeo.

I'll see you over there. I watched

interviews going back to the 1980s where

it sounded like your father was playing

with the idea. I remember that Oprah

interview that's subsequently gone viral

of him saying that um if it got so bad

in the US he would never rule it out

totally. He thought he would win because

he's never gone into anything to lose as

I think you said and even 1980 in an

interview with Rona Beret can't

pronounce that name he said maybe I'd

run for president I don't know. Did you

have any sense that this was at all on

the horizon in

>> Not really.

>> That's interesting.

>> No, it was, you know, it was actually

where we discussed things that weren't

sort of the normal how was your day at

school. It was we spoke a lot about real

estate and about

um and about building and we were going

to go into the family business and and I

do think he sort of toyed with it in his

mind um for a while. I I do remember

once thinking it was real. I was 16 and

I was at boarding school and I called

him up. I go, "Oh my god, I read that

you're going to run for president. This

is going to ruin my life."

I think I was like hysterical and he's

like, "Don't worry about it. Not

happening." You know, I think he was he

was thinking about the options he was

given as a voter and he was dissatisfied

and I think he was beginning to

formulate his perspective on what he

would do differently. But it was not my

childhood that was not an ambition of

his that was at least articulated to to

us. You know some of the ideas you

mentioned that Oprah interview he was

talking about

um trade policy being deeply unfair to

American workers. you know, his

viewpoint remained consistent over time

and remains consistent to this day on

exactly that about trade policy and and

many of many of the things he

articulated then are very true for him

to this day.

>> And then in 2015 when you're 33, my age,

you learn two weeks before he announces

that he's going to announce that he

wants to run for president

>> again. How do you receive that? is in

like an existential panic like you have

>> we came together as a family in

Bedminster. Um and he shared with us his

intention and he asked me to introduce

him and I said to him I'm like well are

you really doing this

um are you really going to do this? He

was coming down the escalator and I'm

trying to like introduce him and give

this speech. I'm like, is he going to

get up here and actually? It was so

quick. But I think, you know, I think he

had debated it in his mind for a long

time and then when he pulled the

trigger, it was

full steam.

>> Life hasn't been the same since in many

respects.

>> Mm- No, it hasn't. But it's been I mean,

it's been an extraordinary ride. There

have been highs and there have been

lows, but um we've done a lot of living.

So,

>> a lot of living.

>> A lot of living.

>> Of which you spent four years working in

the White House.

>> Mhm. Some of your sort of key headline

achievements are doubling the child tax

credit from $1,000 to $2,000, benefiting

40 million Americans with an average of

$2.2,000 $2,000 per year, helping secure

paid family leave for federal workers,

helping pass the Great American Outdoors

Act, which is one of the largest

Conservative bills since the National

Park System was created, leading efforts

to modernize career and technical

education, providing 1.3 billion

annually to over 13 million students,

and helping to pass nine pieces of

legislation combating human trafficking

and child exploitation.

And then it ended.

>> Were you happy it ended? cuz I saw it

with Michelle Obama. She seemed happy.

>> I left it all on the field, you know? I

I don't look back and say

like I I I don't have regrets. Like I

worked as hard as I could and I'm

incredibly

proud of what I was able to accomplish

in in those four years. and um like I

don't regret it in any way, but it's you

know it's a sacrifice um to my children

and it's um and it's it's it's hard work

you know so I feel both incredibly

privileged for the opportunity but also

I don't have what they refer to as PTOIC

fever you know there's some people that

once they have the experience of of

being in those rooms and and close to

that type of power they just like hang

around the hoop constantly like cycling

back in. I feel like I wasn't expecting

to serve in this capacity, at least not

at this stage of my life. My father

asked me to help him. We uprooted our

lives and went and did just that and

scored a lot of wins. I mean, you think

about something like the child tax

credit. 40 million American families

benefited from that policy. An average

of $2,400 in their pockets.

That's extraordinarily meaningful and

consequential and I'm so proud to have

been able to do that. nine pieces of

human trafficking legislation, the work

that I did around vocational education

and skills training, which is all the

more relevant as we sort of surf the

oncoming tsunami that is AI. you know,

the fact that we were able to um get the

private sector to commit to skilling or

res-killing 16 million American workers,

the fact that we were able to facilitate

the creation of a million apprenticeship

opportunities in in the United States,

like these are are deeply meaningful.

So, I

I'm so proud of my service. I I feel

deeply honored that

he trusted me to pursue these different

verticals and and to work alongside of

him. And I also know that it's really

hard and for my children, you know, my

first responsibility is to be their mom.

It was true then as well, of course. And

and I did the best I could every single

day to be everywhere I needed to be. But

my kids are a different age now and

there's a finite period of time before

they leave our home. I think, you know,

I look at at my teenage daughter, she's

14 and even if like a quarter of my

interactions with her through her closed

bedroom door, like I need to be present

and I need to be there. It's not

theoretical for me because now I know

the sacrifice

that they would have to bear the cost to

them of if I went back into service and

I'm not willing to let them pay that

price. So for me it's like actually a

rather easy decision. I made it

immediately. You know that in this

moment I'm where I need to be. It's also

a different time. You know, now my

father has a deep bench of people

raising their hand who want to help and

participate. That wasn't true before.

He's really refined his policies, his

beliefs, and has a lot of conviction in

terms of what he wants to do. So, so I

feel like for him, it's amazing. He's

got the team he needs and um and for me,

I think, you know, my priorities are are

my family, and that just feels really

good and right for me.

>> What weren't you prepared for? I asked

the same question to Michelle when she

was here about, you know, you get that

phone call from your dad and he says,

"Come, come help. One has a vision of

what that might look like, but there's

surprises." Michelle talked to me about

so many of the things she had no idea

would be the case.

>> I wasn't prepared for you're not

prepared for any of it. There's nothing

that trains you for the experience. And

I think one of the things you realize

pretty quickly is like power, just like

money, makes people more of what they

already are. And you see that very much

in playing out in in politics and and in

life, right? I also think you realize

people are just people. Like you look at

and I'm you know I had exposure to some

of the great leaders of business and now

I was being exposed to um to leaders on

a global stage of countries. Um,

sometimes they were monarchies, other

times they were elected democracies and

then all sorts of varants of of that,

you know, were and and you realize at

the end of the day like people are

people, you know, some of them their

their kids don't speak to them. They got

in a fight with their wife that morning.

They're, you know, they're just people.

And now some of them feel

extraordinarily historic. You meet a

person and say, "This person feels

consequential." others of them you leave

and say, "I wonder how this person ever

got elected to to this, you know, high

office." But, um, but I think it it

removes the veil and and the mystery and

I think it removed for me a lot of any

of like intimidation I may have in like

interacting with another human being.

>> Your security situation must have

changed quite considerably. So,

>> it did. Yeah.

>> You know, and because politics is a

dangerous game. I think I I heard

something that said being president is

the most dangerous job in the world when

you look at the fatality rate and

obviously we've seen political

assassinations in this country even in

recent times but your father was also

shot at hit in the ear when he was on

the campaign trail more recently.

What's that been like and what does it

actually can you give me any specifics

on what that actually like means when

you become involved in politics? How

does life change from a security

perspective?

Yeah,

I think

well it changes radically. Now we're

protected by US Secret Service and I'm

so grateful to to the men and women who

who take care of my family um took care

of my father, protected him and uh

risking their own lives to do so and now

do so for for me and and my children. So

very grateful uh to all of them. But

it's it's it's scary. We live in um very

troubling times and like you know the

fact that there is a correlation between

service and violence is um

is uh terrible in and of itself. But but

that's the the world we live in. So, you

know, I have to acknowledge that reality

and defend my family as as best I can

and make sure they're protected. And I'm

very fortunate. The the Secret Service

are the best in the world at doing that.

Where were you in 2024 in July when you

when you heard the news that your father

had been shot in the ear? There was an

assassination attempt on his life. Do

you remember where you were? Like what's

that like as as a daughter? What are all

the feelings and thoughts?

>> I was in Bedminster, New Jersey, and um

there was a lot of commotion and um the

televisions were on so I saw it almost

immediately. Not in my house. I actually

don't love watching television.

Um but out by the pool in the beastro

and um it was almost real time. It was

before he had stood back up

that I had seen um what was transpiring

and um two of my children were there. Um

so you know my first reaction was to

turn them away. Um,

but

it was incredibly difficult.

Interestingly, I knew real time in that

moment that he was fine. Like, I had I

just knew that

like it wasn't his time. So, I was

horrified and I was scared and I was

protective of my children, but I also

I didn't believe like the worst possible

outcome had transpired. Thank God. And

um and thank God it it hadn't.

And then I saw him that night when he

came home from the hospital because he

was also staying. That morning he had

left from Bedminster. And that evening

he he returned after he left the

hospital and um it's late 1 2:00 in the

morning and Jared and I stayed up and we

met his his car as he was pulling in and

um I just feel

feel like just incredibly lucky that he

was protected on that day. But it's, you

know, when

you can't take things for granted in

life, and I've learned that in numerous

ways, that being one of them. Um, when

my mom passed prematurely,

when my husband had a scare with cancer,

you know, all of these challenges that

remind you how finite and how precious

every moment of this life we live are.

make you realize you just can't take

anything for granted. And I think as you

move through them and you know, God

willing, you're able to. And we were so

fortunate that day that

that this was a failed attempt to take

his life. Um, not a realized one. But

you just I think you you recommmit

to sort of love and connection and to

a recognition of um how short our time

here on earth is and how you have to

value it.

>> Someone shooting at your dad um and

trying to kill your dad. This is quite a

difficult question to ask, but it's like

if if um most of us will never be able

to relate to the fact that

members of the public want our parents

to be deceased and that's the reality of

the the situation for your father is

someone shot at him was trying to

execute him publicly. And um I wonder

how that again doesn't make you negative

to the world

>> because I don't allow it to.

What does that accomplish being negative

towards the world? I think that brings

more negativity into the world. Even for

the person that shot at your father,

>> there's a lot of sickness there. And

I,

you know, I think that

forgiveness is a difficult thing in in

this regard, but I think you have to

um

his living

was a blessing.

So I could look at what happened and be

rightfully traumatized by the experience

and nobody could really argue with that.

But

you have to you have to move through it.

And and on the opposite side of that is

the fact that he's with us today, that

he didn't die, that my father is alive.

And that is an extraordinary blessing

for me as his as his daughter. In life,

you have a choice only in how you

respond. And I choose to

see the positive outcome that

that transpired and dwell there.

>> The mind plays out scenarios, right? The

mind plays out the scenario that where

he he didn't make it, where the he

turned his head in the other direction,

the bullet hit him

>> and you presumably played out that

scenario of what how different life

would have been. Well, seeing it on

repeat for months on television on the

news was certainly like not the easiest

thing and you know that's part of why I

just even before I didn't I never loved

watching the news. I'll read the news

but but no I mean he's here you know

really felt like um a miracle and a

blessing and and that's what I focus on.

I can see the emotion again in you which

is again it's fascinating to me because

I've you know I've heard you know people

around you speak about it but the the

emotional toll seems to be more still

sort of present in you about that

incident than it does about other people

that I've heard speak about this

>> well he's my father he's my father and

he almost lost his life that day but he

didn't and I feel truly grateful for

that

>> and in this second season of his

presidential career you decide that you

want to pursue um many other things,

many other things, many other business

developments and um real estate

developments. You step away from

politics in 2022, I believe. You

announced that you would not be

returning for the third election

campaign. Uh you said, "This time

around, I'm choosing to prioritize my

young children and the private life

we're creating as a family. I do not

plan to be involved in politics." You

also said on Lex Lex's podcast,

"Politics is a pretty dark world.

There's a lot of darkness, a lot of

negativity, and it's just really at odds

with what feels good to me as a human

being. I was thinking this earlier on

about 30 minutes ago. I was thinking,

your nature, as I've known you, seems to

be the antithesis of this type of world,

like fame.

>> Totally true. You know,

>> there's this like gladatorial aspect of

it that's just like not for me. I care

deeply about policy, about helping

people, and I think there's all sorts of

ways to do that. and and and I'm doing

that now in in the private sector, but I

don't like politics, but I I do care

about policy um quite deeply and I've

tried to focus on on that element of

service.

>> And do you feel the need to express you

never do because you don't punch back at

the world publicly, which is I think

something to be admired. And I I've

learned actually quite a lot from

everything you said there about not

feeling the need to like punch back at

the world.

>> It takes training.

>> It like takes real training. I was

actually reading uh recently uh

about the crow and I thought it was like

a great metaphor for life. So crow is

like a highly intelligent animal,

extraordinarily so in some cases, but it

can get aggressive and territorial and

it's one of the only animals that will

actually attack an eagle. Like a crow

will go and just sometimes because it's

being territorial and other times for

fun. And the crow will actually like mob

the eagle and it will land on its back

and it will start pecking it. And the

eagle's response to this, which

naturally the eagle's

many times over larger than the crow,

isn't to like twist and turn and knock

the crow off or um defend itself and and

and then go on the offense. It's just to

fly up. And it flies up while the crow

continues to like just peck at its at

its back. It flies up and up. And the

crow is not built for high altitude

flight. So at a certain point as the

eagle flies up, not expending any energy

in the counterattack, the crow just

falls off.

>> It can't sustain the altitude.

So I and I kind of love that analogy for

life because you have a choice. You

know, you can turn around, you can fight

back, probably the eagle would win or

you can just, you know, play the game on

your own terms. And I I think about that

sometimes and I thought it was like a

brilliant metaphor for dealing with the

noise.

>> And you trained that muscle

>> for sure.

>> So there was a time when you did care.

>> For sure. Because I there was a time

when I was just like confused. I'm like

well but I didn't even do that. Like

what are you talking about? Like I don't

even know what you're and and then

there's a sense of well that's unfair.

Like that's an unfair attack. And then

you realize like a lot of it's unfair

especially in politics. It's like it's

just like a team sport and people attack

and you know and and people also, you

know, put you up on a pedestal and you

just can't get distracted by either. You

just have to be yourself and uh you have

to fly up, let the crows fall off and um

and that's it. That's all you can do.

>> Do any of you remember a conversation I

had on this podcast with anthropologist

Dr. Daniel Lieberman? It was one of the

most viewed conversations of all time on

the Diary of a CEO. And interestingly,

the most replayed moment of that entire

conversation was when I talked about a

specific pair of shoes that I wear.

They're called Barefoot Shoes, and

they're made by a brand called Vivo

Barefoot, who have become one of the

sponsors of this show. Now, all of their

shoes have significantly reduced

support, which gives my feet the

opportunity to strengthen just by

wearing them. And research from

Liverpool University backs this up.

They've shown that wearing Vivo Barefoot

shoes for 6 months can increase foot

strength by up to 60%. So if you want to

start strengthening your feet, which are

the foundation for the rest of your

body, head to vivobarefoot.com/doac.

And if you do that, I'll give you 15%

off when you use my code Steven B15.

Use that code at checkout. And I'll also

give you a 100day money back guarantee.

Steven B15.

Enjoy. We have finally caved in. So many

of you have asked us if we could bundle

the conversation cards with the 1%

diary. For those of you that don't know,

every single time a guest sits here with

me in the chair, they leave a question

in the diary of a CEO and then I ask

that question to the next guest. We

don't release those questions in any

environment other than on these

incredible conversation cards. These

have become a fantastic tool for people

in relationships, people in teams, in

big corporations, and also family

members to connect with each other. With

that, we also have the 1% diary, which

is this incredible tool to change habits

in your life. So many of you have asked

if it was possible to buy both at the

same time, especially people in big

companies. So, what we've done is we've

bundled them together and you can buy

both at the same time. And if you want

to drive connection and instill habit

change in your company, head to the

diary.com to inquire and our team will

be in touch. You are very different from

your father. Now listen, I know you you

know you love your father deeply and

I've watched you in every interview

you've ever done to talk to that love

and I have zero exactly zero desire to

to ask you any questions or ask anything

that's going to try and drive a a wedge

or get you to say something that I think

you know is is is not fair. But the

thing I find interesting is that like

how you make your way in the world and

like become your own person

>> when you do have this derivative noise

that's trying to define you through

things that you have never even actually

done.

>> Yeah.

>> And I just find that fascinating like

how and life has clearly made you a

stoic for this very reason because you

have to deal with I guess to some degree

being characterized in a certain way for

actions that you yourself haven't taken.

So one has to become a stoic or else how

could one possibly survive

>> like we all deal I think on microscopic

levels with like

>> the eye of the hurricane.

>> Yeah.

>> I think but like I I sometimes like feel

a lot of gratitude for it because I I

think sometimes you

keep being taught a lesson until you

learn it. And I think as somebody who

always wanted peace and harmony and I

think I needed to like maybe it took

this level of intensity to be like okay

you know like peace and harmony within

the context that I can help facilitate

you know like I can't control something

so much um bigger than that. So so

sometimes like maybe that was my

medicine you know.

>> Did you go to therapy?

not in my childhood in actually as an

adult I um I I have a lot of um friends

who are unbelievable either teachers,

professors, therapists and um and I have

like a very growthoriented mindset as

you could probably tell like I'm always

looking to learn about myself and about

the world and uh so they've provided

unbelievable perspective for me over the

years. I asked that because I imagine

there's lots of people watching now who

contend with their own struggles. Yeah.

>> Similar to that, dealing with the

outside world or

>> I think therapy can be amazing. Um I

think you have to have the right

therapist. Um and somebody who helps you

sort of process and move through. I

don't think it's like healthy to linger

too long. Um like I think you have to

move forward.

>> When did you decide to start seeing a

therapist?

um

in my adulthood like as an adult and it

was more just as like another tool for

me in the same way that I meditate you

know I view it as as an opportunity to

like

to do an internal inventory