We had two employees that in February

had already achieved the entire fullear

quarter.

>> I'm so excited to welcome Carles Raina.

Carles is the CRO at 11 Labs, one of the

fastest growing companies on the planet.

>> Customer success needs to be a money

generation function for the business.

He's scaled the revenue org from zero to

over 350 million in ARR.

>> The role of a CRO is fundamentally

thinking about not the revenues today,

but the revenues of tomorrow. Let's do

the things that no one is doing. That is

what makes me passion and that is what a

good CRO needs to be doing because we're

not here to do easy stuff. This is a

masterclass in scaling sales in an AI

first world. It's like the fastest

product in terms of revenues that we've

ever had. It's just insane.

>> On top of that, Carles is also an

incredible investor with his own solo GP

fund BABA Ventures which has backed the

likes of Revolute and of course 11 Labs

in the early days.

>> If you want to do something, budget is

never going to be a problem. So what is

the problem? If you want to do something

and you're not allowed to, why would

that be? Ready to go.

Carlos, listen. I know a show is

successful when I get friends of mine

outside of tech be like, "Oh, love the

clip with Carlos." And I'm like,

"Really?" and they're like, "I never

thought that quota and sales comp would

be so interesting." And I'm like, "Thank

you, Sarah. I had no idea you were

interested in it." So, it was such a

successful show. I thought we had to do

a round two. Thank you for joining me,

man.

>> Thank you for inviting me. This is

great. I'm happy people were interested

in like sales

>> sales and sales comp according to that

clip, which again, now it's like 5

million plus views, which is insane.

Dude, I actually wanted to start on you

have now kind of led the way in a new

CRO charge. I think 11 Labs is probably

one of the most exciting companies on

the planet. You a CRO there lead the

way. Um are a generation of CRO being

left behind? Some of them yes but I

think I think it's fundamentally that

like the market has changed. The way

that we build companies today has

completely evolved. We can do deals much

quicker. But also like for me the key

item is like a deal can be done. you can

hire teams that like have a ton of

experience, but how do you think beyond

a single deal and think about like

distribution entirely, right? And I

think that's what we're thinking like

what we were actually missing in many

ways. Like yes, it's great to do

business development. It's great to like

think about affiliates. How do you think

about much more on a strategic level,

but also like able to execute um and for

me and those are the key components. How

do you embed AI in your entire

distribution component so that like

you're able to actually do more with

less, right?

>> What do you mean by that? Is that like

simply uh using artisan qualified Monaco

and having like AI SDRs do outbound for

you?

>> No, that doesn't work.

>> Good. Glad I suggested that.

>> It it doesn't work like and I've tried

like you're not hiring me, huh? Dodgy

start the interview.

>> No, you're fired.

No, but it's it's like I've tried a very

large number of like AI uh go to market

tools and they don't work and they don't

work because they see everything as a

transaction like the like if I was

building it and hopefully like some

people will able to actually use this.

If I was building an AI like um aentic

platform for sales, right? I'll be like

okay let's actually understand each one

of the core potential leads. What do

they prefer? Do they prefer to actually

be reached out over email? Do they

prefer to actually attend events? do

they prefer to actually like um have a

phone call and you can try to map some

of those components but what people put

on LinkedIn and social media right so

like that is the most fundamental

element but what we're actually seeing

on the AISDR front is that the majority

of these tools track everyone as if they

actually want to receive a message and

people hate it and you see like the

response rates on outbound uh emails has

dropped to the lowest at of any point in

time is like less than 0.01% 01% like

people getting message on LinkedIn is

like it's has skyrocketed and you can

perceive that is actually a

transactional email must send to

everyone or it was generated by AI that

doesn't work. So outbound is dead.

Outbound is dead unless you do it with

humans or unless you do it humanly. And

that's fundamentally the key item. I can

tell you like at 11 Labs I spent uh the

past two years plus trying to convince

uh the team to actually hire uh

engineers to actually help me build AI

agents for revenue for sales, right? Um

and it was only last year that actually

like they were like, "Okay, let's do

it." So we end up hiding people and we

end up building ISDR that handles

inbounds. Super good results. I have now

an AI proposals manager that like scans

the web for RFPs and RFIs and then

proposes scores and proposes things. I

have like an AI custom success manager

that fundamentally leaves in the back in

an email and essentially proposes

emails, looks at all of the data of a

single customer, all of the pricing

tiers and everything that we have in the

contract and then practively proposes

things. So when my AI customer success

my customer success manager goes in the

morning to check the emails that person

has a number of like drafts that the AI

has created and then that person can

change those draft to put it out there

and to send it back. We store what we

actually sent and what it was originally

created and what are the responses are

to actually fine-tune. So each one of

the customers ends up getting a slightly

different message with a slightly

different tone and if they speak other

languages then it's a completely

different language. that works and that

has closed deals for us already. We

generate money from that AI customer

success manager fundamentally because it

is humanly right. It's human if it's

perceived as human. So are we cutting

the size of our team if we can do so

much with these different AI agents? Our

sales teams of the future going to be

dramatically less.

>> I think like we will end up seeing the

fact that like um people are becoming

much more efficient. I think like the

goal for me at 11 Labs is like 50%

improvement in productivity. That's the

one that I want to do because then it

means that I can I can hire less people,

right? And that's fundamentally I prefer

to manage a smaller team that was get

super well compensated. Any upsells, any

contracts that the AI agent ends up

closing, I will pay those commissions as

if like a human actually closed it and

I'm very happy with that. But also that

means that like the people that we want

to retain and have are going to be

extremely top talent that are performing

at 11 that no one else is performing.

That has a consequence that is instead

of actually doubling my team or doing a

5x or doing whatever it is over the next

like two years, I end up hiring less

people, but they're very concentrated.

>> Totally.

>> That has an impact for sure in the

industry.

>> Totally get that. You you mentioned the

word commissions there. I'm really

intrigued. Like we see like Open AI

don't have commissions. It's like here's

your salary and then here's your equity.

And often people say sales people are

coin operated. You said that actually uh

last time you have a 20x Yes. um quotota

which is a lot higher than anyone else.

Um we interviewed the the head of sales

at Clay recently and they said theirs is

six to eight. Um

post20 what is the commission structure

and how do you advise me as a founder on

how to set the commission structure? I

mean I can tell you like we uh we like

we had two employees that in February

had already achieved the entire fullear

quarter.

Yes. And I I put a message in Slack

saying these two people have reached the

Mont mount Olympus of sales at 11 Labs

because in two months already like did

their quarter, right? And I think like

>> I mean this in the nicest way. Did you

not massively miss that quota then?

>> I don't think so. It's like I think you

need to put a a quotota that is

challenging but also fair. And if people

miss it fundamentally because it's too

high then you need to do the right thing

and then lower it or compensate them

correctly, right? But also sales people,

good sales people, they want to be the

best ones. They want to actually they're

move it by the coin. They're moved by

the fact like um like a big challenge

ahead of them. If you don't put that

challenge, they're just going to be like

slacking. They're just not you're not

going to get the best out of it, right?

And I think for me that's the key item

is like we say like, hey, you reach your

quota 100%. Fantastic. And then you

start unlocking accelerators to the

point that like I'm very happy like if

we sign a million dollar commission

check I'm the happiest person alive

fundamentally because like that person

did so much money for the business and

for our shareholders and for the rest of

the company that is an absolute

no-brainer. Again like for me it's like

for every $1 million in revenues that

any single person signs and I don't care

if it comes from like the SDR the

account exec the CSM or it's an engineer

that went all in and then managed to get

a contract. It's like every single

million has $33 million in extra

valuation for the company. If you put it

that way, it's a benefit for everything.

Like like some people get more equity on

the engineering side. Great. They

deserve it because they don't get

commissions. Fantastic. They were

popping up their entire value of their

stock.

>> When you get the accelerators, how do

you advise me on how to structure the

accelerators?

>> It depends. Like so the way we do it,

and I think it's fair, is like for every

single extra year, you get another 25%

extra commission on top of it. Um like

we start like 5% commission on any

anything that you sell and then we have

the accelerators

>> after your quota that is

>> no that is including your quota and then

after your quota yes additional like and

we have like a 1.1x 1.2x 2x, 1.3x, 1.5x

and so on, right? So the more you keep

selling above your quota, then you hit

those accelerators. But then we have

like accelerators for or spiffs

specifically for for uh for individual

products. So if we are incentivizing one

product because a quarter we want to

incentivize that product then we will

put an accelerator or a specific spiff

for that specific uh product and then

people even are more motivated on that

front. Do you find that always works

accelerators?

>> No. No. I think like like it's easy to

get hooked on spiffs on or like specific

incentives with and and lose the entire

the entire site of what you're trying to

do. If you put too many accelerators, if

you put too many incentives in one

place, you create the wrong behavior,

which is people try to sell whatever it

is to actually unlock it. For instance,

like we don't pay commissions on pilots.

No. Like because why? like it's not

adding to our valuation as a company and

because it's not adding to our valuation

as a company like the engineers, the

researchers, the ops people, the people,

no one is actually getting a boost in

their equity. Then why should we pay it?

Let's do the right thing and let's do

the complex thing which is like let's do

the pilot if needed. Let's convince the

customer that the metrics are there and

we're doing it really well and then on

top of that once we sign an yearly

contract or a two-year contract then we

pay the commission.

>> You pay on retention and expansion.

>> Yes. Yes. So, like first 12 months like

um you can close it year. It doesn't

really matter $50,000 or a million

dollars or $10 million, whatever you

want. And then anything that you like

that gets expanded over the next 12

months, you will get um commissions.

Great. And you can hit accelerators with

that and so on. If it's a strategic

account um and we have designation of

what is a strategic account. So for

instance like the top 20 or 30 accounts

in a given market depending how big the

market is then uh fundamentally then you

will unlock commission for two years

fundamentally um and we can change it if

needed right but um at a practical level

we found that that's like the first way

I will never forget one of the great CRO

saying to me on the show you do not ever

want your farmer going against someone

else's hunter.

meaning you're kind of cushy but super

nice CS enablement. Hey, like let's get

champions in your company kind of happy

um against someone else's allstar hunter

who is there to close your business. How

do you feel about that? True. And then

how do you think about then retaining

the hunter on the account? The hunters

are important, very important.

Specifically when you think about

distribution, you think about like

outbounds, inbound, you think about like

a lot of different pieces, right? Um but

at the same time a hunter that is not

well managed will create more damage

than actually like opportunities. So

let's say for instance you're trying to

close a company that is has multiple

comp multiple sub companies. Uh it's the

big holding company. we can use any num

name you would want right and then you

have a hunt that essentially tries to go

to each one of them but doesn't do it in

a very structured way like trying to

align what are the incentives for this

big account like then fundamentally you

end up having discrepancies of pricing

you end up having discrepancies like

what is the actual like uh the value for

them and then each one of them

discrepancies ends up coming back to

hunt you down essentially when you try

to renew the contract or the other forms

so like it is important to have them but

at the same time you need to have like

them in

together with the customer success. I

actually am a big believer of customer

success. I don't believe customer

success as a satisfaction or happiness

moment for customers. No, it's like

customer success needs to be a money

generation function for the business

that incent in works for the customer

but also works for the business to

incentivize growth, expansion, cross.

>> What What do you mean by that then?

Because I had Chris Dagnon on the show

who's like one of the all-time great CRO

Snowflake, you know, 0 to 4 billion or

whatever it was and he's like CS is

complete [ __ ] complete [ __ ]

You have professional services, pay for

it and we'll make you great. To what

extent do you agree or do you think

customer success is in the world where

like Snowflake grew up? Um like that

made sense in the world we are in today

with AI that doesn't make any sense

because fundamentally like anyone can

spin up a competitor of your product in

the next two days anyone. So

fundamentally like your customer success

you need to actually like go as deep as

you can as early as possible and try to

close it as as soon as as possible a

single contract and then your customer

success is the one that actually will

help you expand it uh uh quickly and

retain the customer. So if it becomes a

services business only where you're

charging for every single penny then you

become a transaction you're not building

a community you're not retaining of the

of the long term you should be

incentivizing them to actually like do

both things community trust and also

like incentivize the long term. So

that's why like I am I'm in favor of

charging for like services but in not

all the cases it makes sense

fundamentally totally

>> the game has changed.

>> Where else has the game changed? Where

else the old school CR is out of date

>> in general like you like one single

market going one market at a time it

doesn't work. traditional BCs like

they've like the traditional method has

been like oh you open one market you go

deep you win the account you show like

the value then you go to the next one

and then you go to the next one and so

on and this is like the [ __ ] advice

that like VCs have been giving like for

many years and I know like now it's

changing fundamentally because like hey

like the reality is like if you're going

to have 100 competitors um in the next

like month because you're starting to

get some traction or because of whatever

reason or everyone is thinking about the

same problem then going deep then go

opening one market after the other one

after the other one instead of actually

parallelizing and trying to do multiple

bets at the same time then it's just

counterintuitive.

>> Is that only enabled by a PLG motion

though? Like PLG motion allows you to do

multiple markets at the same time much

easier because if you have enterprise

motion you need you need everything from

SDRs to AES to CS in that place.

>> Why? No, not really. So for instance

like one of the and and I know like this

is going to be controversial but like I

think like all of the tech startups are

afraid to actually hire someone that has

had 20 years experience 25 years

experience and the excuse that they use

is like that person is not going to fit

the business and I think it's [ __ ]

I think it's full wrong. Right.

Fundamentally, someone that has 20 years

experience in sales and has been selling

for the past 10 years to the same like

financial services firms in the city or

in the US has so much wealth, so much

knowledge, they can propel the entire

business. Now, the question is like not

all of them are going to fit your

business, but a good portion of them if

they're still hungry and they still want

to actually do something that is

meaningful, they're going to fit really

well. that those type of profiles will

shorten your sales cycles because they

will join and be like, "Okay, now I know

the product really well. I have I know

the vision. I know how to properly like

pitch it. Let me call off my friends

that have been interacting and all of my

stakeholders that have been interacting

for the past 10 years, 20 years, and I

would just go directly to the sea

level." Dude, is that not a massive

misalignment of cultures when you think

about like the super young hungry raps

and then you're bringing in 50-year-old

Simon who's been selling into the city

financial services for years. The

biggest example is like Google in the

early days. You have like Sergey Bin and

Lar Page like together with Eric

Schmidt. Like that's amazing. A guy that

had ton of experience was really

successful ended up coming in and magic

happened. I think fundamentally like

both parties want to make it work. It

can happen, but you need to make it work

and you need to hire the right people

that will have like will be in the same

brain wave as you are.

>> Do you worry that people pull 11 lab so

much out of your hand that anyone could

sell it?

>> No, I don't think so. I don't think it's

that easy to sell, especially in this

environment. Of course, I think if you

have a big brand like an openi or like

an easy a little bit and

>> the nice thing about this being around

too is I can push back more. You can't

have a 20x squ and say it's not easy to

sell.

You can't have that much better people

than everyone else.

>> I I think you can. I think

>> your people are not I love you dude, but

your people are not 4x better 4x than

everyone else in market.

>> I do 100% believe that our people are

like 4x better like without thinking

twice. And I would take them to war. I

would go with to war with them. Every

single one of them. It's because like we

are tough on them, but also like they're

tough on us. Like they give us the the

feedback, the difficult feedback, and I

get it every single day. And I'm happy

that they give me the right the the

tough feedback because what we're trying

to do here and I've always believed and

grew up with the idea of like we're

trying to like find the ground truth and

what the ground truth means like today

means X tomorrow means something else

and the following day will mean

something else. So if you don't have

people that are constantly challenging

you and constantly thinking beyond what

they actually is happening today, you're

not going to be able to survive. Those

are the people that we hire.

>> Where are people challenging you where

you don't have an answer? Which market

should we be opening? Like how deep

should we go into like some of the

structure changes like the company is

going growing very quickly? Do we need a

uh global accounts team? So I'm already

thinking about the global accounts team.

When do we implement it? How do we

implement it? How do we motivate people?

Um like should it be 20x? Should it be

something else? Like um which product

should we be selling? Should we be

selling to competitors? Should we be

selling to resellers? So there is all of

those things like the team challenges

every single day. And I love it because

it's intellectually is stimulating but

also because it forces the entire

business to rethink our position every

single day.

>> So you would advise founders today to go

to as many markets as possible as soon

as possible.

>> Not as many markets as possible. I think

like you need to map out and have a

reasoning and a thesis of why that

market so that you cannot refer to that

and understand whether the market

conditions have changed and then you

have to actually like evolve your your

thesis. But for me this is like go to

market is similar to like investing in

in venture capital, right? you need to

test like a hundred things to actually

be able to find like the three, four,

five, six things that actually perform

and do really well. We do the same in

venture, right? We invest in companies

knowing and believing that all of them

are going to work and all of them can be

like a billion or trillion dollar

company and then we realize like [ __ ] it

not worked but I still have like three

or four or five that are going to be

working really well. Go to market is

exactly the same thing like test as many

things as you can not only in the

opening markets but also like do you

need to try like self? that you need to

try like working with resellers like

with partners with the cloud ecosystem

like with a grants program with an

affiliates program there's so many

things and opening markets is one of

those ones

>> what did you test that didn't work and

what did you learn

>> at 11 I've tested like endless endless

amounts of things and I absolutely love

it like for instance like media

entertainment in the beginning did not

work for us it just didn't

>> what does media and entertainment mean

>> so big brands like big uh entertainment

studios and the thesis was like they're

generating so much content we should be

able to actually sell to them and make a

ton of money on this. And the reality

was that like yes, they do make a lot of

content, but when you have like um an

industry that essentially like is very

heavily influenced by the public, the

audience, the quality they need to

produce like um like events, all of that

stuff, then potentially the industry

might not be ready for technology that

you're trying to sell. That was a big

learning. And we spent months and months

and months trying to break into the

entertainment industry to realize that

like we were not growing as fast as we

wanted. So we ended up pitching like

switching and having another ICP was

like okay let's work with media creation

platforms right that worked really well

for us and then we end up saying like

hey actually the wall is moving we had a

thesis around like the m the wall is

moving towards agentic systems how do we

also bring a product to market that fits

really well in the agentic wall and we

had a vision on that. So we ended up

working on that and today AI agents it's

actually fantastically huge for us

fundamentally because we had the vision

we bet we went early we started working

with partnering with like some companies

and that pan out really well.

>> You said the words not growing as fast

as you wanted. Now you're an ambassador

on the other side of the table.

You've seen how fast a company can grow

with 11 Labs. You've also seen with

Revolute to be fair to edge cases to be

fair. Well, you need those two education

business like that. That is the business

of Venture. My favorite thing with VCs

is when you get other VCs be like, I

don't know if Carles is very good

because like if you actually take out 11

L and Revolute, he's not that good. And

you're like,

>> yeah,

>> we'll have done four unicorns. That's

fine. Like, you know, okay, sure. Um,

but but my point is, has it changed how

you think about attractiveness in

company growth? I don't know. I think I

think you still need to have companies

that grow from one to four or from zero

to one and it takes them like 18 months

to get there. And I think that's

actually not bad. It's like just means

like you need to incentivize the

portfolio to be able to actually like

iterate and experiment as much as they

can because we don't know what's going

to work. And I think it is us like us

still even with new products that like

I'm I'm heading and I'm trying to get to

market. I truly don't know how we're

going to price it. I truly don't know if

it's going to work out. I'm just trying

to iterate. Is it going to take us a

little bit longer to get to like the

first million and the first 5 million

and the first 10 million. Fine, we have

the ability, but we need to iterate. And

I think it's exactly the same. At 11

Labs, we have like a business that grows

extremely quickly like we like smashing

it, all of that stuff. But at the same

time, we have like brand new bets like

are not generating any revenue. And

that's great, but it's bets that we're

doing for next year. So, I think like

the

>> What's the biggest bet you've got today

that's not generating revenue? Um, so we

we have we're generating a good amount

of revenue but like government work

fundamentally just like it's a tiny

portion of it and I think that's okay

because like the role of a CRO is

fundamentally thinking about like not

the revenues today but the revenues of

tomorrow. I'm already thinking like all

of this quarter I've already been

thinking like how do we put the pieces

together so that the 11 labs next year

grows even faster than this year because

I know this year we'll smash the

numbers. I have the right team. We're

going to continue hiring. We have like

the motion that we set last year. It's

going to grow really well. How am I

doing it for next year? Being very

creative so that I can start putting the

right bets. That's what being my quarter

this year.

>> You'll hit a billion in revenue by end

of year.

>> Who knows? Who knows? I I would love to

I would love to hit a billion dollars in

revenues by the end of the year. We have

some targets internally. If we we're

creative, we can do it. If not, it will

be a little bit later. That's fine.

That's absolutely fine.

>> Any big lessons on forecasting? It's

freaking hard to do.

>> Impossible. It's just impossible. like

we forecast and then we realize usually

that like we've like we would just like

>> but that's different. Traditional sales

leaders on the show for the last three

or four years cuz I've done

have been like oh I can pretty much get

there to to 3 to 5%.

>> Yes.

>> I'm like wow now

>> but it's impossible if you think about

it from an experimentation perspective

and I always tell my team like I want us

to test as many things as possible. I I

only need one of those ones to work

really well to give me another hundred

million dollars in revenues or 200 or

300.

>> And so when you say things, do you mean

like channels like affiliates, like

partners, like referrals or do you mean

like products?

>> Channels, products, ideas. Should we be

pitching services? And I was like in a

in a meeting with a CEO of an airline um

very recently in in a few days back and

we were talking about like agents and

all of that stuff and then at some point

he's like, "Pard like everyone keeps

pitching me. I get over a hundred

pitches every week of pitch like

companies doing like customer support.

Like I mean I don't want to have another

another pitch on that. And I was like

and you're 100% right. And I hate it.

Like actually don't get me wrong, we do

it and we do it really [ __ ] well. But

at the same time it's boring. Like the

majority of companies will start with

the bottom line optimization.

>> So what's boring? Customer support.

custom support optimization for me is

like yes your your mindset is like yeah

I want to automate increase a bunch of

percentage point my profitability so

that's where I'm focusing and that's

great don't get me wrong it is fantastic

what I'm actually interested is like how

do we figure out a way to partner with a

company and create a lapse area so it's

company X lapse right so that we can

figure out a way for them to generate

new revenue opportunities for them

that's what actually makes me passion

but that's we have to prove that that is

the right So that is one of the

experiments and I'm spending a lot of

time these days on like how do we prove

that the idea of labs for companies

where we essentially are their

consultants and help them build those

agents that will generate topline

revenue with new ideas, new products is

actually something that we can scale and

generate like hundreds of millions.

>> How do you think about the trade-off

between doing that where it's maybe a

little bit more low margin given the

fact it's quite hands-on? I'm thinking

like British Airways Labs where you have

amazing voice agents who call you up and

are very personalized. Give you tips on

how to enjoy New York with your wife.

>> Great, super nice idea. May get more

money from it. Boom. Versus actually we

can do it avatars and we can compete

with all the avatar companies.

>> Higher margin very adjacent product. I

don't know. I think like I would rather

do things that are actually much more

complex than the ones that are actually

like uh less complex. Uh I think we here

as like startups and and VCs to do the

difficult things. I don't believe in

like doing the short path like things

are actually like are much easier if

someone is doing it and someone is like

super good maybe we should be buying the

company great or maybe we should not we

should just partner with them fantastic

right let's do the things that no one is

doing that is what makes me passion and

that is what a good CRO I think needs to

be doing because we're not here to do

easy stuff I think customer support is

uninvestable stay and I get so much [ __ ]

on Twitter for this because everyone

shits on but I'm like Sierra and Dakon

obviously two market leaders in terms of

brand and yeah how much money they've

raised and you've got 16 providers

who've raised over 75 million in the

last 18 months and you've got all the

incumbents and your Salesforce and

Atlassian and then your intercoms and

Zenes and everyone in between OpenAI

will do a customer support product if if

they continue doing new products not

quite sure why that product road map is

uh maybe it was going to happen maybe

not anymore do you agree it's not

investable

I would not personally invest but I also

thing that like the opportunity for

companies that are like established and

growing a lot to go into that space is

good is is big, right?

>> Why doesn't 11 knobs do it?

>> We do we do custom support and the

majority of our customers starts with

customer support and we make an absolute

ton of money on that. Um and the ROI for

our customers that like use for customer

support is insane. Insane. Like what

percent of your revenues customer

support? Give it 20 30 40.

>> We don't we we don't share that. But I

think like it works really well. It's

like the fastest product in terms of

revenues that we've ever had. It's just

insane.

>> Um, but I also think like you look at

like all of our competitors like you

mentioned Sierra Deck Gone and all of

the other ones. We power all of them. So

we actually make money off like

literally customer support with our

agents platform but also we make money

from our API foundational model layer

across the board. So that's the good

thing about the labs that is like spread

so widely. How do you think about

empowering your competitors?

>> I I think like fundamentally like we

we've been very happy to actually

support the entire infrastructure layer

because we believe that like the

opportunity in the market was like way

bigger than anyone anyone was expecting

right boys and and and and interactions

with humans and human technology

interaction like it is the fundamental

piece that was missing in the entire

puzzle. Now you end up having situation

where like similar to I don't know like

a Nvidia that was like competing with

like powering everyone but also

competing with everyone right like I

think that's actually fine like it's

it's okay that the market is big enough

for multiple companies to coexist and

then try to target the same customers

I'm not going to deny it I think like

also means that like everyone needs to

be aware that that will happen so when

we launch our agents product I called

the biggest platforms agents platform

that were operating um in our platform

and I told them like guys FYI like in

the next couple of months we're going to

be launching our agents product we're

gonna be competing with you right just

wanted to make sure that like you're

okay with this I wanted to make sure

that like you understand that like we

are going to this space and the funny

part was like all of the founders that I

interacted with telling them this they

were like yeah welcome on board that's

okay right and it's good because like if

you're able to actually be transparent

with that and say like hey I'm going to

be competing with

But at the same time, I'm partnering and

in some deals you will win it and in

some deals I will win it and in some

deals we will partner together. That's

when you end up creating a good

ecosystem in parallel.

>> So I think you have to be unwaveringly

aggressive now on BD and sales because I

think you have an 18 to 24 month period

where CIOS CISOs are like AI we have to

have it we have to have a message for it

>> that won't last forever. Do you agree?

>> 100%. And our team is dedicated to that.

It's like everyone is like selling

agents left and right. We've had the

best quarter ever. It's been fantastic.

But people are incentivized to sell

agents because we know like we are

competing with other companies. And

sometimes those companies ends up

complaining to us being like why are you

competing with me when you're also like

selling me? But the reality is like hey

if I like you charge me like you pay me

like $1 $1 and I could be charging the

the end customer like or you're charging

the end customer $20 then I'm like I

mean maybe I'm doing something wrong

here as well.

>> I I totally get that. One of my dear

friends is Jason Lanin who built a game.

>> Yeah.

>> And he built a game and he used 11 laps

for the voice. And he was like, "It was

great. Amazing. It was such a beautiful

product. So amazing. So amazing. [ __ ]

It was expensive." And then people

started using it. It became even more

expensive. And he's like, "This will be

the year of substitution where you try a

great product like 11 Labs, it's

amazing, and then you go, oh [ __ ] it's

expensive." And then you substitute for

the cheaper, but 80% of it. Do you think

that's true?

>> No. I think like there was a lot of like

conversation last year and I actually

and I've I've evolved my mind on all of

these things but um and of course it

will continue to evolve right but um a

lot of people were talking last year

about like oh open source models are

going to take over like even on the AI

voices space like you're going to get

commoditized and so on and for a period

of time I kind of believed it. I was

like yeah I mean there is a point in

time like open- source models will take

over like it will be fully commoditized

great like we just need to continue

going deeper on the product integrations

full verticalization distribution all of

the stuff great and what I ended up

realizing is like even if open-source

models become extremely good at the same

quality level that we have like it is

the additional hustle it is the

additional components that like make it

very difficult for any organization so

if you're a bank already you might want

to play with the idea of what if I use

open source models. The problem is that

those open source models are not built

for the scale that you would want,

right? You would still need to maintain

them. You would still need to actually

make them operational. An 11 apps

actually takes that away from you. An 11

apps agent takes that away from building

the entire orchestration and managing

it, right? Everyone can be building

anything from scratch. It's just do you

have the time and do you have the

resources? And if the priority in the

company changes, are you going to be

able to continue adjusting and making

sure that you get the right funding in

there? And I don't think that is true.

And we're seeing it all around the

world. We're like, yeah, we could go

with open source models. Excellent. Do

it. You try to operationalize it and

they've lost 3 months and then they come

back.

So interesting. 11 lab is almost a bit

like open AI in the way that or

anthropic in the way that it's like it's

this foundational layer and you can go

in any strategic product direction you

want from that foundational layer

there's this LLMs yours is voice

and the question is will I be claified

so to speak and then there's a question

of will I be 11 labsified you can do SDR

agents with voice how do you think about

weighing that off in terms of where your

product direction goes

>> I think it's like It's it's an overoling

evolving question all the time and it's

it's like it's it's not that simple to

decide.

>> Do you have verticalized sales teams?

>> We have verticalized sales team right

now uh in specific markets, markets that

are much bigger or markets that are much

more mature. 100%. We have people that

only do like BFSI only teams that do

like uh healthcare.

>> What does it take to do vertical sales

teams and what have been your big

lessons on what mistakes people make? So

I will give you an example like in India

like I tried to implement vertic sales

team too early and essentially kind of

depressed the revenues for a single

quarter and it was like an absolute

disaster and then I realized like no

>> what happened there then you you divided

everyone and then it didn't work like

what happened

>> it didn't work because like a people

were not passionate enough b like it was

like a lot more like it needed a long

time to actually close like some of the

biggest sales and c like I I I like the

team was way too small and like if you

do it like early on if you segment and

too early then you fundamentally end up

like screwing things up. So what I

realized like I have this placeholder in

my in my calendar every single week that

is called pipeline construction and that

pipeline construction um it's like

similar to like portfolio construction

that you're familiar with but for me

it's like pipeline construction. Do I

take a VC term and put it in like in my

mindset? It's like how do I design the

perfect pipeline for any given market

and segment? And that that's when you

start thinking it's like actually you

need like the liquidity but you also

need the big whales. So each one of my

account execs needs to have the ability

of like closing big whales specifically

on the enterprise segment but also

having like liquidity in the pipeline so

that they don't lose the confidence

because people were losing the

confidence. So just towards me you have

pipeline construction. What's the next

subsequent step? You break out how many

sellers you have in that market.

>> Correct. So how many sellers? Let's say

we have 20.

>> Let's say 20 for any given market.

Doesn't really matter. I mean we have a

lot less than those ones.

>> Sure. Let's just say but like what do we

do then? 20 average deal size.

>> I look into the average DSLs. I look

into like what are the numbers of

companies in there?

>> What's the average deal size? 100k

>> depends on the market. Depends.

>> Let's just say 100K cuz it's easy for

our maths. 100K. And then we're like,

okay, if I need to hit, what's the math

we're trying to get to? I'm just trying

to understand.

>> So for me, the key item is like how many

companies are in that market? How many

like very complex enterprise in that

market? And how do I create enough

liquidity in that market to close deals

every single week so that the team stays

motivated and sees the challenges of

closing deals?

>> Have you ever had a situation where

you're like, [ __ ] the ramp I need to

get on my sellers to get to my quota is

too high. Yes,

>> I'm I'm not equipped enough to hit that

quota

>> 100%. Government vertical is one of

those ones where like we said, you know

what I like and it was one of the big

bets that I made this year was like I

don't care.

>> Why do government in the nicest way hard

sale cycles tough to get in?

>> You're crushing in other areas. Why do

government?

>> Um fundamentally because one is very

sticky. Number two is like it's a

benefit that we make to society. If we

can deploy agents for people to have

better interactions with like the actual

like government and government services,

it's an absolute no-brainer and I don't

care if I don't make enough money to

justify it or like I lose money. It

doesn't really matter to me. And then

the three is like it's a hard industry

to get in. So the moment you actually

get in, then it's just like you never

leave that industry. So fundamentally

like when you start mapping those things

out, you need to make the bets and one

of the some of those bets will pan out

really well, some other ones will not

like pan out that well, but it's like

literally portfolio contraction like how

quickly can I do some this some of these

sales so that I can spend time also like

like in the difficult ones and my

investors don't call me saying what the

[ __ ] are you doing? I'm going to fire

you. Right? And I think that's like a

fundamental of idea of like portfolio

construction and you do it at a like a

country level. Each one of the countries

that you actually want to be launching

and that is a completely different

concept than what the majority of like

CRO are actually thinking these days. If

you tap it into like AI agents for like

uh go to market and other pieces then

you have like something that is quite

unique for your business. So what did

you do in India then? You verticalized

too early, segmented too early depressed

for

>> we went back to zero. We went back to

like

>> horizontal.

>> Let's do horizontal. let's allow people

to do like much deeper and then we will

start segmenting again when the right

timing comes and what ended up happening

is like I would then we would then give

them like I would then give them like a

a name account list based on um and

negotiate with them based on like

fundamentally like how I was thinking

about like the portfolio construction

and and that worked really well like

lally we lost a quarter we end up

changing all of that from the ground up

and then you could see like people

starting closing deals in the first

month and it was like insane because

like it was day and night we had changed

the culture in the team in the local

market by getting it wrong. Let's go

back to the basics. Let's redo it from

scratch. Accept that we made a mistake

and then move on.

>> Does brand dramatically reduce

enterprise sales cycle when you can like

no offense 11 Labs in India I'm sure

like a year ago not actually a very big

brand.

>> No

versus in the UK and the US very big and

much easier. Does brand reduce

enterprise sales cycle?

>> Yes, 1 million%. And whoever tells you

no it's like just lying that is a fact

right and I think like the ideal

scenario is like no one gets fired like

the idea like do you remember like IBM

right it's like no one got gets fired

for actually buy buying IBM it's like

that is the ideal scenario for any brand

it's like literally you become the

safest asset in the block great it's

it's a long way I think like the two

companies that today have been able to

make it is or three companies if you

want openairopic

full respect for them cursor

The three of them I think for me are

like

>> K has killed enterprise unbelievably

well.

>> Yeah, they they've done super well and

it's fantastic. Like those are the three

like brands that are like blue cheap

organizations right now in like in in

the procurement like teams perspective

and IT teams perspective. It's

fantastic. It's great.

>> Everyone on Twitter, it's one of those

really funny ones where everyone on

Twitter is like and no one uses them

anymore. We use claw code. You're such

idiots. And it's like sure we're going

to HSBC in Hong Kong like or wherever

around the world like Barclay's Bank in

Swansea like I promise you they're using

cursor actually in their local dev shop.

Um

>> and which is great like it just means

like brand will help you solidify your

position but also you need to like the

bigger pro like

>> but also the stickiness of these big

enterprises like that's the also the

unwavering

>> and it's not that easy to get into the

big enterprises anywhere right it's not

that easy you've done it you you've done

it with like the portfolio companies you

know how difficult it is for them but

once you start getting into the motion

then fundamentally

>> as a venture capitalist I've I've done

it period I have I all of the companies

we invest in we basically found you know

we we do all the work Really? That's

exhausting.

>> Would you do it with LPS? So imagine

your LPs like it's exactly the same

content like your LP is like the big

>> multi-ell

I mean seriously multi cell cycle. One

of our biggest LPS was a six year sales

cycle.

>> Yeah. I'm not surprised.

>> Absolutely.

>> But how do you create enough FOMO? How

do you create enough brand to be able to

actually like reduce that six years to

like a lot less?

>> Yeah. Brand does that.

>> Exactly.

>> What percentage of your new sellers work

out? The majority of them

>> do they?

>> The majority of them. Yes. We're talking

about like our churn rate on the sales

side is actually not that big

>> really.

>> It's because like when I make an offer

um I tell every single person like 11

laps is going to be extremely difficult,

right? Extremely difficult. We are a

hard company to work for because we have

extremely high expectations. You're

going to work like a huge amount of

hours. I expect full commitment and and

people love it. So you end up filtering

out people that actually don't want to

have that type of life and I think

that's okay. And the

>> do you think it's possible to retain

that at scale? You get these soft

management people who are like oh no we

need to filter down the messaging. Do

you think that's possible at scale?

>> I think it is possible but it is

possible if you try to retain like a

smaller team and you implement the

latest technologies to actually like

become make everyone more efficient in

general. I think like of course like the

bigger the company then I think you get

softer but you look at what Mark

Anderson was saying the other day and

like companies are over stuffed by 25%

and even more right like of course there

is a trade-off between like over

stuffaffing and understaffing so like if

you understaff and people have like even

in sales or like revenue you have too

much pipeline they end up not closing

nothing.

>> How many sales people do you need to

hire this year?

>> We we we're about adding about like

another 120 people more or less. So it

will keep the entire sales team. What's

your sales team now?

>> It's 130 people. So, we'll keep it under

250.

>> Okay. But you're doubling sales team.

>> Uh sales uh doubling the sales team.

Yeah. Um and the sales is going to grow

much quicker than that.

>> Do you worry about that?

>> Yes.

>> And that that's a lot to bring on board

doubling a sales team.

>> Yes.

>> What are the pitfalls that you need to

avoid?

>> I mean, one is the dilution. Like if

you're not upfront about the

expectation, I think you end up diluting

because people come with different

expectations, they essentially like

behave in a specific way that is not the

way that you wanted. How many can you

correct it? I went to a company the

other day. Um but essentially there was

the sales leadership board of all the

reps and there were like seven reps and

six reps had between 5,000 and 8,000

points and just points just think that

and then the bottom one had 2,000 and

the net best one had 5,000.

pretty freaking clear this person is way

off. Do you just cut it there and then

or are you like give them time? It's

been a it's only been a month.

Yes and no. Like I think for us like all

of the stats are publicly open to

everyone. So everyone knows how much

revenues we make. Everyone knows like

each one of the reps.

>> Do you do you have a leaderboard

internally?

>> Yes, we do.

>> How does how do you do that to create

that competition?

>> Um so people like we post automatically.

We have a bot that actually will post

automatically into the sales channel

every single week a summary of like what

percentage of quotement year to date for

that specific quarter and all of that

stuff and the forecast

>> power basis

>> on a per basis. So anyone can see it

anytime and if you're at the bottom then

hey you're going to be able to see that

you're on the bottom at a practical

level for me it's like it's beyond that.

It's like that's one component, but if

you have someone that is like building

strategic accounts, then I'm not too

worried. If someone is actually building

uh like the right pipeline, I'm also not

too worried, right? But they need you

need to see the action. You need to see

like how many meetings are doing. If I

open a calendar and someone has a full

calendar that is empty, I'm like what

did you do this week? Do you worry about

demoralization

or losing?

I mean, dude, if I'm like, if I'm

looking at the report and it's like

Harry Bottom, next week, Harry Bottom,

I'm like, "Oh, fuck." You know, I'm It's

so mean. It's like public. You know, I

was the fat kid at school and it was

horrible cuz you had running races and

that you're losing in public was so

public cuz everyone could see how far

behind you were.

Something nice. Sales attracts a

different profile. Sales attracts the

people that are much more outspoken,

people that are much more extrovert,

people that actually want to do

something different, right? So by

definition, you don't go into sales if

you're not willing to take like the

harsh feedback. If you're not willing to

do

>> you think most sales reps are softer

today,

>> I think a very large portion of them are

because they don't have the environment

to actually like just push harder or

because they've already lost the passion

on that. They just want a normal job.

And that's okay. Don't get me wrong,

that's absolutely fantastically well. It

is not what I'm hiding for.

>> What's your tell for the obsessed that

wins

>> for me? Like you can get it very

quickly, right? Like people that have

extremely high energy, that are sharp,

that like are thinking quick and also

like there's other people that like will

be slightly opposite, but also like

they're going to be very very deep. And

it's like it might take them a little

bit more long like more time to actually

like get there and those are like less

obvious, but once they do it's just

insanely good, right? But like if people

are like sharp and they're energetic and

passionate and they come across as like

someone that really wants to win and you

can ask them like hey like pitch me 11

laps as if I was I don't know like a

fish whatever it is like it doesn't

really matter right like then you get a

sense of like how quickly they're

thinking and how passion they have like

how much passion how much actually um

like they research the company who are

they thinking all of that stuff like you

end up having in a in a very short

conversation like I don't need to spend

more than 20 minutes to know if um if I

want to hire someone or not. And I will

tell you like um the majority of times I

end up putting my feedback in uh in

Ashb. We use Ashby internally. I end up

putting my feedback in Ashb during the

conversation. By the middle of the

conversation, I have my feedback and I'm

one of those like crazy guys that like

write a lot while I'm talking to

someone. I hate when it gets recorded.

Um because then people end up behaving

in a very specific way versus actually

like being themselves. So I write a lot

when I'm while I'm interviewing people

and then I have my summary and in

parallel I'm writing and I'm doing my

summary and that's it and it works

really well for me. And why do you hate

the recorded element? So for me all of

our calls in the launch fund are

recorded because it's important for us

that we can share them and I can ramp up

without being in the room. My personal

take is like interviews like people

behave differently if they think that

they've been recorded versus if they

think that actually they have freedom to

say whatever they think is is best. In

sales we are always like ask everyone to

record it and we have like it's

mandatory for everyone.

>> You use gong.

>> We use gong and then automatically fills

out our like sales force and so we try

to automate as much as possible. And by

the way like Loable has the best CRM

that I've ever seen. Those guys have

really smashed it. Like shout out to

them.

>> Lovable CRM.

>> Uh yes. Like so lovable ended up

building their own platform where like

>> can you imagine if they didn't? I mean

that would be

>> we should be building our own platform

as well but like we're not.

>> Do you buy that? Do you buy the SAS

apocalypse of like you will customize

your own software entirely in the

future?

>> For summary is yes. Where will you where

will you not?

>> I think like for like core application

core things yes um so a CRM I would love

to customize it. I would love to

actually build it uh myself. Uh even

like it doesn't really matter. you can

you don't have to spend that much time.

It's just like um a pool of data. You

haven't

>> we haven't we haven't done it. Uh we use

Salesforce. Uh but for some other

applications like I mean why wouldn't

you do it? If it fits better in your

entire ecosystem of applications if it's

easy enough then then maybe you should.

Would I build an entire Google Drive or

a Gmail? No, I wouldn't. Like it

wouldn't make any sense. But for a good

amount of applications, for sure. If I

was like a procurement guy, I would be

building a procurement software for

myself.

>> So you think the SAS apocalypse is

overexaggerated?

>> I think there is a very large portion

that is over exch. But I think like

there is a a real fact that like people

will end up building their own

applications and I think that's that's

key. I think it's it's why not.

>> What would you like to do with 11 Labs

today that you're not able to do because

of lack of budget?

>> Oh, we've never actually like put any

constraints on the lack of budget. like

you if you want to do something budget

is never going to be a problem and

that's been since the beginning.

>> What is the problem? If you want to do

something and you're not allowed to. Why

would that be?

>> It's it might well be because um you

haven't proven with a test or

experimentation that that is the right

thing to do right now. Um so for me it's

like you want a budget, you want what do

you want 100K, you want 50K, you want

200K to actually prove that things do

it. Don't ask me for a million dollars

and ask me for like dedicate an entire

team to it. Don't ask me to actually

dedicate six months of your time to for

that specific thing. I'm not going to do

it. But if you do it on the side and

then you prove me that like you you can

actually make it work and I start seeing

some results, we will scale it and we

will give you all of the budget that you

want.

>> You're on the CRO and you said that it's

so interesting about kind of I want to

see the data before I scale it. You now

do paid uh and you do paid but you know

on an F1 car. Remind me of the team.

>> Uh, Audi Revolute F1.

>> How did you weigh up the decision to do

that when it's a big investment and you

had no data honestly to suggest it would

work? It took us a long time to actually

get comfortable with the idea. How much

does it cost? I mean, we we spending a

good amount of money like the budget

like we had a budget in mind that we

wanted to spend and we went to different

teams and we ended up negotating. We're

like this is the budget that we we we

have. This is how much we want to be

spending for year one, for year two, all

of that stuff. Um and and what are the

options? Um and then the major like all

of the teams that we spoke to some of

them were like no like for this no uh

and or like for this you don't get

anything. Uh and you don't even get the

logo. Some of them are like oh we'll do

all of this stuff and then we end up

like narrowing down to two teams and

then we end up negotiating with two

teams in parallel and then there was one

like which is ODA revolut like we were

very impressed. Um but it took us a

while to actually be comfortable with

the entire cont. Would you rather

premium branding on a worst team or

secondary branding on a number one team?

>> Premium branding on the worst team 100%.

You get more exposure and also like you

have a lot more creative freedom and

also you're betting. So the reason one

of the main reasons why we ended up

picking like Audi Revolute F1 is because

like if you look at the past the story

of like the history of like uh Audi is

like every single like sports

entertainment or sports championship

they've entered they've ended up winning

within 5 years and and that's fantastic

and like they're building the car from

scratch. They build their own like

engine. They build like everything from

scratch. They're competing with like all

of the big ones. And I'm a big Formula 1

fan, but they're competing with all of

the big ones. And I actually feel that

like this idea of like incumbents, like

very technologically driven with a a

really clear like mindset, drive, idea

to win and so on. It is who we are as a

company, 11 apps, but also is who like

who Nick and the team are at Revolute.

So it fits really well with your entire

narrative as a company if you try to do

it well. What was the biggest paid

marketing event that you did event slash

channel or slash activity that you did

that was a mistake and what did you

learn from that?

>> The majority of them end up producing

good returns. But like when I look at

like the ones from an enterprise

perspective that like have a better ROI

for us is like uh dinners like when we

do a dinner with like execs in a given

city that has the best ROI that um that

you could have. Um if I go to a trade

show the majority of them don't have

good ROI. How much does a dinner cost?

>> You could have a dinner with like four

like 15 people and cost you like 3,000

4,000 $5,000. Um, if you want to go

bigger, then essentially you need to

like shut the entire place and all that

stuff. So, you will have to spend more.

Depends on the city. Not the same doing

it in Mexico City or doing it in

Barcelona or doing it in London. But the

ROI is actually quite solid. But for

dinners, the benefit of the dinners is

like you end up imagine you're inviting

competitors, right? So, you're inviting

like competitors like different

customers you're trying to like to to to

to close. So like those guys are going

to know that you're actually talking to

these other guys. So there's a FOMO that

ends up being created in place and it

just plans out really well, right? And

because they know they they know like

it's usually the same ICP. So they know

like who is doing procurement, who is

doing like whatever, who's doing like

the sale, who's being like the CTO, who

is the chief AI officer, all of that

stuff, they know each other. That always

works really well. Um the worst like ROI

for us has always been like uh

conferences. It just there's no ROI in

there. What's the take away from that?

>> We should be spending less on those

things and should be building our own

events more.

>> You should be building your own events

more.

>> Yes, that's why we did like 11.

>> We did this insane 11 Labs event which

kind of reminded me of like some kind of

rock concert meet Steve Jobs kind of

event. Do you need to see ironically a

return on that or is it like

>> 100%. Like why wouldn't you like

>> it's always difficult to know?

>> No. like so you end up like having like

uh this concept of like uh influence uh

like revenue and then direct revenue or

like uh close revenue right so there's a

lot of like different variations all of

this that you can plan it and the event

that we run in London the 11 lab summit

in London was fantastic like we wanted

to prove that like a European company

can actually be running these big events

with like um like so many people um and

then like put up a show that actually

people get passionate and talk about it

and also motivated and presented We

presented some ideas. We presented like

we brought some like guests to talk in

front of everyone else. What is your

biggest tip for me if I I'm thinking

about one company in particular of ours.

I I uh solve intelligence amazing

business in London AI for patent

lawyers. They should do an incredible

event for patent lawyers specifically be

an amazing close-knit community. If you

were to advise, say them on you should

know this if you're going to do an event

for your customers, having done it so

well, what would you say that advice

would be?

>> Bring the right ICPS. Design the content

really well and think carefully about

the content that you won't want.

>> What's the what would be your advice on

the content? Design it well. What does

that mean?

>> It has to be like not salesy. I think if

it needs to feel natural like you should

do like a presentation about like your

company like some insights talk about

like the things that are coming next

your vision but if you make it to sales

and people will walk away and never come

back and I think that's the fundamental

trade-off like for me like this big

event like we talk a little bit about

the level app so Matty ends up doing

like like always the big speech the big

the big keynote but then after that for

me it's all about how do we put those

partners those companies that are

building in our platform or are using

our technology in front of as many

people as possible so that we learn

about them. And I I did my my I I did a

fireside chat with uh three amazing

companies like BCG and and Aturi and and

and and and connector. For me, it was

more about like how do we enhance their

appearance? How do we like talk about

like what are they building, what

they're using? It's less about Labs,

it's about like them, right? And I think

that's like you need to plan the content

in a way that like it feels less salesy.

You talk about it, but also you bring

partners to validate that what you're

doing is actually right. Totally get

that. You said they're partners. How do

you think about partnerships as a

channel at 11 Labs? Yes.

>> And what are the big misnomers that

people have around partnerships? There

is a concept that I really like that

we've actually done fairly well, I would

say, at 11 Labs, which is like the um

strategic partners. And that is

strategic partners like we put in that

bracket is like um companies that have a

CBC. And I know like this is going to be

controversial but like I actually love

CBC's like corporate venture capitalist

because they help you navigate big

brands. They are your champions

internally and their incentive is to

actually make it work really well for

the business. Just for people to kind of

understand that's like Salesforce

ventures that's

>> exactly like Deutsch Telecom uh like T

capital Capital which

>> I think have one

>> they all of them end up having one like

entity.com ventures like all of them

have like one of them but the good thing

is they know their business and they

were not sexy up until like a year and a

half ago two years ago they were not

sexy like like returns were not there as

we know right like CBC getting returns

is like really difficult um and they

were just like trying to like fight to

get a location in the best companies but

like it's just not possible. Today we've

proven with 11 lamp like we dedicated

time to actually partner with like Woven

Capital from Toyota with the Deutsch

Telecom guys with the Telefonica guys

with Liberty Global that actually join

our cap table all of those pieces like

that is a fantastic distribution

strategy

>> and so you get them to invest a small

amount and then you distribute through

them.

>> Exactly. And you essentially we we we

negotiate contracts with them and

essentially they end up like depending

on the situation you have one side or

another one.

>> Do they have to bring a certain amount

of pipe or promises to get a certain

amount of allocation?

>> Uh yes they do like we we are 11 labs

when nothing is free but I think I think

I like it because like it incentivizes

like the way I organized this this

concept initially. Um and uh and it was

so funny when I pitched it to Matthew I

was like really people are going to give

us money as a contract and I was like

like investors and I was like yeah let's

try right and I think like the reality

was that like you end up aligning

incentives like if their incentive is to

also only invest the their incentive is

only to invest but your incentive

actually to close a deal. So how do you

figure out something that works along

the way so that like you put end end up

saying you know what you will invest for

every million dollars that you want to

invest you need to actually like bring x

amount of revenues in the next 12 months

or 24 months whatever time frame you

want right and there has to be some

penalties and some consequence if that

doesn't happen that is the way that like

>> I'm sorry how do you actually that if

you don't bring it like we we strike you

less like is that possible

>> we buy you out

>> ah

>> yes

>> I think it works perfectly fine and then

everyone is incentivized and the logic

And I I strongly believe that is the

case. And that's how I pitch it to

everyone. It's like we want the best. So

if you invest in a million dollars in 11

apps and you bring a contract, you help

us close a contract, then your valuation

goes up. So you're making money from the

BC side, but also your business is

getting more efficient because he's

implementing 11 Labs. It's a win-win for

everyone. I totally get that. I think

the other thing that you also get is

like a public market messaging story

which is like we're closely partnered

with 11 labs a pioneer in the industry

and four large telecoms providers

wherever you are around the world or

whatever enterprise you are that helps a

lot 100%. But also like the the

beautiful side is like you end up

building like new products specifically

for them because then you get the like

the insight of the industry. So we went

into like the telco industry. We had no

idea about the telco industry. We've

actually learned everything about the

telco industry partnering with like KPN,

Deutsch Telecom, Telefonica, Entity, Do

all of that like really amazing brands

that like have been in the industry for

a very long time. We work very closely

with the W capital guys at Toyota. We

are learning a lot about the automotive

industry because they're in the cup

table. So, everyone is motivated to it

like in the same with like um like in in

in in in financial services. So there's

a number of things like or even going

into different markets like there's a

number of advantages of like having

corporate VCs in your cup table just

because you incentivize and you increase

your like opportunities of being

successful. What are the biggest

mistakes that you think people make with

partner ecosystems? I think people think

of them as like a a silver bullet. Oh,

we'll have a partner and then it's done.

I think you need to have people who

nurture those partners incredibly well

to teach them, train them, onboard them.

>> Yes. What would be some others from your

perspective?

>> It takes time. It takes [ __ ] long

time. Like and that is the reality is

like um if you're coming into like the

distribution side with partners uh or

you building entire partner ecosystem

thinking that you're going to be like

making another 20% of revenues like in

two quarters. You you're wrong. Like

that doesn't happen that way. You need

people dedicated to it. You need

incentives for them because people lose

interest and you need your incentives

for your own team. So initially start

using like SQOs uh sales qualified

opportunities or SQLs as sales qualified

leads to be able to actually track how

much volume has been generated and what

is the actual traction being generated

and then once you start having a solid

like motion in there then you start

tracking and move it towards like the

revenues. So each one of the SQOs needs

to be generating a certain amount of

revenues

>> other than letting them invest. How do

you incentivize your partners to push

you?

>> You have you can always and Salesfor has

done it extremely well. for me they are

the reference on this um is like they

built a partner ecosystem that like

where they get deals from like

Salesforce but also they send deals to

Salesforce right and in some cases like

in the markets where they cannot be

billing the customer they actually do

send the deal be like oh you're my

partner you will be billing the customer

and then uh I will build you

independently right that's fantastic

ecosystem to be building like how do you

think about the justification of rep

time across account and what I mean by

that specifically is Any company that's

very large could spend a large amount of

money.

>> Yeah.

>> And with PLG, everyone tends to start

small and then the hope is they expand

much bigger and bigger and bigger. How

do you think about what ACV is large

enough for reps to spend significant

time on trying to get it $1,000 a month?

Your when you start spending $1,000 a

month uh as a business, your brain

completely switches because you don't

want to put it anymore in your credit

card. And at that point, you start

believing like, [ __ ] I'm spending a lot

of money at that in there with that

software. I do have high expectations.

At that point, if you have emotion from

a sales perspective that is fast enough,

then it doesn't really matter. And

you're ready for a weird one. One of my

favorite sayings I've heard recently is

like fear is a mile wide and an inch

deep.

>> Mhm.

>> And you need to take the step to realize

it's not as scary as you think.

>> Yeah. Where have you thought the thing

was very scary and difficult where it

actually wasn't once you did it? I had a

very clear conviction that like at 11

Labs launching India was going to be

extremely difficult um and we might fail

and what I end up realizing is like I

didn't know enough the market to realize

like if you do it well you can make a

ton of money and also generate a ton of

us and generate a lot of ROI.

>> Do you have to send OG team members to

every market you open? No, but we do it

centrally, right? We always try to like

build um like a market like centrally

from HQ trying to close some deals so

that it is for free for me. It's free to

actually like deploy a single person on

the ground.

>> Sorry, how it's free to deploy a single

person on the ground

>> because like I'm already making

revenues. I'm profitable. I'm making

revenues in that market. I've proven

that like it is a market that is getting

>> So you only go into new markets when

you've already got a lot of customers

and you can see the PLG.

>> No, not on the PLG. I don't even look at

the PLG numbers. I don't I don't care

about those ones. I look at like what

are the enterprises, what are the

companies in that market, how is my

portfolio construction in that market

and how can I close some of those number

how some of those companies to get to a

certain level of revenues. At the moment