Every election is a choice, not a

marriage proposal. We're not hiring a

priest, we're hiring a senator.

>> Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York

Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast

Network. I'm Carara Swisser

>> and I'm Scott Galloway.

>> With just a week to go before Maine

Senate primary, Graham Platner, the

presumptive Democratic nominee, is

facing his latest controversy. Multiple

outlets reported over the weekend that

Platner's wife told a campaign aid last

year that her husband sent sexually

explicit texts to several women outside

the marriage. Um, by the way, this

campaign person had a falling out with

Platner and has dropped a dime, which is

has its own ethical considerations.

Platner is calling these reports gossip

from a former staffer and accused the

media of journalistic malpractice. Not

as of this recording, none of the women

involved in in the text exchanges have

come forward. Platner's wife, Amy

Gertner, released a video, which I

thought was fascinating over the weekend

defending her husband and their

marriage. Let's listen because it was

really quite something to to listen to.

It makes me really angry, um,

disappointed,

and

I find it really shameful that there's a

group of media outlets

and people who are willing to spread

gossip

um, instead of talking about real issues

that Graham is

is running on like healthcare and

education and child care. As I said,

it's the, you know, this cont, this has

been a controversial campaign. You know,

he reportedly has an active account on

kicks, a private messaging app sometimes

used for sexing. He's faced scrutiny, of

course, about his Nazi symbol tattoo. He

later expressed regret and covered it

up. There were posts from a deleted

Reddit account recent, all manner of

sex, you know, jokes about sexual

assault, and he's also apologized for

that. It's a really interesting issue,

and lots of people disagree on this. I I

I'll tell you what I think in a second,

but there's Platner appears to be the

real chance of unseating Republican

Susan Collins and uh who is the zombie

of all senators. He's been leading in

recent polls. Um I personally, I'm going

to just very quickly say I think voters

don't care about this. I don't. And I

thought his wife handled it well. Um I

have others. I had an argument with

Amanda this weekend. She doesn't like

the Nazi tattoo. She doesn't like this.

Um, I feel as if if they if the husband

and wife are working it out, it remind

me a little when Hillary Clinton did I

should I stand by my man when he had

those Jennifer Flowers things? Reminds

me a little bit of that. Um, turned out

to be a pretty good president and not

everything. Not of course the Monominsky

stuff, but um, uh, it's a really

interesting question. I don't get

bothered by it as much, none of it. Um,

I think he's an he's, as Amanda Litman

correctly said, he's someone who had a

drinking problem as a Marine, probably

got that tattoo, has some mental health

challenges, which he's trying to

overcome, marriage problems, which he's,

his wife is insisting they're going to

counselors and overcoming. I'm not so

sure in the era of Trump this matters at

all. So, what do you think?

>> Look, okay, every election is a choice,

not a marriage proposal.

We're not hiring a priest, we're hiring

a senator. Do you want to make sure that

women's rights aren't continued to be

rolled back? Do you want a more

responsible economic policy? Do you want

different um approaches to labor that

raise the wages of nurses and students?

Do you want something regarding fiscal

sanity? Do you want to stop have a check

against the unfettered unprecedented

corruption, but we're going to talk

about [ __ ] tattoos and sexing?

I mean the the obsess the obsession with

personal purity has become a luxury

belief and it folks if your house is on

fire you don't ask whether the

firefighter has problematic DMs

>> right right

>> now having said that

>> right

>> the comm's person for the platner

campaign should be fired

>> you don't go after media you don't say

this is gossip you don't say these are

texts he said it was

>> it was journalist IC malpractice. Guess

what? These texts are accurate.

>> The reporting has been accurate.

>> Good for you, Scott.

>> The response should be the following. I

am an imperfect man. I have demonstrated

terrible judgment on several occasions

in my marriage and I have a great

marriage. What about you? What about

you? That are we going to continue to

have one strike and you're out? I'm a

Jew. I don't love a Totten comp tattoo.

Okay, if he gets drunk one night and

gets a stupid [ __ ] tattoo, the fact

that he's trying to protect our

liberties the next day and might be

blown up by an IED, he gets a hall pass.

So, okay folks, if you want to keep

applying purity tests, we end up with an

incompetent running against a 9/11

denier in Los Angeles. We're not going

to have any candidates,

>> right,

>> running. So, one, stop the purity tests.

And two, the the Platner campaign,

it's not the crisis that brings people

down,

>> right?

>> It's their inability to own it. I [ __ ]

up.

>> Did you What? Did you watch his wives

thing? I thought it was It reminded me a

lot of the Hillary Remember when Hillary

Clinton and Bill Clinton sat down? When

they sat down together on 60 Minutes?

>> Yeah. It was really interesting to me.

It had a lot of echoes of that. I

thought, you know, someone said to me

like, "Oh, she looks like someone who's

the wife's in denial." I'm like, "No, I

think she seems to not be in denial. She

understands his problems." And I think

it just reminded me a great deal of

that. Um, and there's, you know, as a

person, you can have com as a personal

thing, you have comments about people on

a political thing. I I'm like, I want to

talk about this idea of imperfect allies

that you and I have talked about.

Obviously, I'd heard it first from Sarah

McBride, but uh oh, Representative Sarah

McBride, who has plenty of reasons to be

angry to people and isn't um she's a

writer named David Gate posted about it

on Substack. Let me read a quote.

Working with someone toward a shared

goal does not require believing they are

morally perfect. Requires believing the

goal itself matters enough to justify

strategic alignment. He goes on to say,

"The planet is on fire, as you noted

just now, Scott, while many people are

still conducting background checks on

one another's vibes." So talk about that

concept because it's a really it's a

really difficult one for many people to

get around this guy. Many people

supported him. Others were like no we

have to we have to like have background

checks. So what do you think about that?

Can people get to that idea of for I

guess forgiving people for their

imperfections or

>> one of the reasons we're seeing a crash

in birth rates

is a lack of dancing.

And that is a dancing is a key component

or a key mating ritual. And when you

dance, typically it helps if you drink a

little bit. The anti-alcohol movement is

hurting it. But more than anything, and

there was a wonderful Tik Tok on this by

some young man, and I thought, God, this

was so powerful.

People have a camera on them all the

time.

>> Yeah, they do. 19-year-old men don't

want to dance because they're worried

about or they don't they don't want to

take risks like dancing like approaching

a a romantic a potential expressing

romantic interest because they're

worried one false move and you're out

everything in a digital world. So unless

we move to at least some basic notion of

as our digital world increases and

everything we've done is going to be

recorded and potentially used against us

unless we have a little bit more grace

and okay what's interesting here is that

I just hope the same thing holds and

that is if the Republicans decide the

best candidate for a Senate seat in

Texas is someone whose wife divorced him

on biblical grounds if they can

>> and who has a history of fraud If we can

decide that this guy can have his finger

on the button and be the most powerful

person in the world while he's banging

adult uh movie stars while his wife is

home nursing. And to a certain extent,

I'm kind of like, I don't care if the

pilot is a good person. I want someone

who's really good at flying the [ __ ]

plane. So, I think the same thing needs

to go to our politics. I just hope that

the same what I'll call focus on

perceived effectiveness is the same for

Democrats. And I am still ripe angry at

Senator Gillibrand who thought a

seven-minute run for president was worth

kicking Senator Al Franken out. The

Democrats want to walk around and say,

"Well, we'll have our dignity." Okay,

hold on to your dignity as a 15-year-old

has her pelvis broken cuz she's forced

to carry a child to term. But yeah, you

you kicked Platner out.

>> Is there something that there should be

a line? Like obviously

>> I think at some point if it I mean, let

me put it this way. If Graham Platner

was was, you know, it it ended up that

he was kind of fond of wearing a white

hood

>> and was was constantly engaging in

anti-semitic behavior, then that that

that tattoo isn't an errant mistake from

a youthful soldier.

>> It's a pattern. The corruption of the

Trump family is a pattern. This is not

This is This speaks to their character.

But folks, all of us have made mistakes.

I I I I mean, okay, Barack Obama doesn't

appear. We can't seem to find a mistake

on President Obama.

>> I can't, but go ahead.

>> Well, okay. But you know what I mean. Or

scandal,

>> right?

powerful men

um are under the illusion that that they

mistake

kindness for sexual interest. And as

they become more powerful, power

corrupts and they're more likely to

believe that they're immune from

standard norms and engage in stupid

reckless behavior. By the way, more

women do that than they get credit for.

I will I will argue that it's it infects

a lot more men than women, but you know,

Secretary Gnome was banging her number

two on government property. So,

>> yeah, she did a lot of work for that.

Yeah, she

counts for 10, Matt, I have to say. But

>> oh man,

>> look, I don't I I I saw this and I was

like, okay, at what point at what point

I'm hoping we've passed the purity test

on the Democratic side,

>> but more than anything, I want to call

the Platner campaign and say,

>> "Oh,

>> stop attacking." Yeah. Stop attacking

the

>> Don't say it's gossip or it's not

accurate reporting.

>> It's been corroborated.

>> I think the point they were trying to

make is shouldn't we be focusing on the

important issues and that's all they

needed to say. I think the sec first

part should have been removed, right?

Just say, you know what, we get why

people might stare at this. It feels

like a traffic accident and it kind of

is, but let's focus on the real matters.

I have a question. Do you think we're

imperfect allies? I think we are a

little

>> imperfect allies.

>> Yeah. Like people you don't always agree

with everything and but I think you I I

think that I mean the reality is Cara is

I'm a we're both progressives and the

fact disagree on things. Yeah. where the

real progress needs to be is between

moderate Democrats and moderate

Republicans. I mean, if if the two, you

know, on almost every major issue, you

and I are within two basis points of

each other in terms of actually what we

believe. We might believe in tech, you

know, we might have differences around

>> text and tone or whatever. But what we

really need, I mean, a couple things.

One, I think this is we have to from a

young age start thinking, "All right,

folks, unless you don't want to unless

you want to live a life with a fake user

account and VPN for fear you ever do

anything wrong, we're going to have to

demonstrate more grace with each other."

The Democrats applying these purity

tests to themselves. It's just like

that. The Republicans are just laughing

that we would do this.

>> Like, people be naughty. Like, people be

naughty.

>> Have at it. But the thing that really

the Platiner campaign, Graham Platiner,

should do the following.

I've had I've demonstrated terrible

judgment numerous times.

>> He has on other issues. Yeah.

>> Numerous times in my in my professional

and personal life.

>> Yeah.

>> I've also served my country. I think I'd

be a great senator. And by the way, I

have a fantastic marriage.

>> Yeah.

>> So have at it, folks. If you want to if

you want to engage in this stuff, I

realize it's titillating. Have at it.

All he's doing and his campaign are

doing is keeping the story alive by

denying it and by attacking the media.

>> I don't think there's anything wrong

with the media reporting this because

well I I do have a I have to say I'd

like to know I I'd like to know a little

more about this campaign person who

keeps dropping dimes on this guy and

what her agenda is. I have to say she's

been doing it a lot. She she wants she's

mad and I want to know I'd like to know

about her in specifics also. That's what

I would say the media needs to do a

little bit more of because I need to

understand what the source's motivations

are and she's not here to protect us, I

don't think. Anyway, um let's move on.

Uh self-help podcaster J Shetty has

signed a deal to bring a video version

of his show exclusively to Spotify and

Netflix. Another one of these deals,

which is interesting. The deal is

reportedly over worth over hund00

million over multiple years. Who knows?

Um Shetty and his previous partner

iHeart uh media parted ways. They could

not come to terms. This is something

happening. Obviously Scott and I went

through a bunch of these, not this

amount of money, but it's a really

interesting um that Netflix

>> I hate to break it to you, but over 5

years we're getting more than this.

>> Okay.

>> And that's why we're in Perfect Allies,

as you realize on bank.

>> Yeah, we're pretty high on the news list

this week. I was noticing we're moving

up. We still haven't passed Megan Kelly,

but we will. Um

>> we're coming for you, Megan.

>> We're coming for you, Megan. And not

like that way in any way physically or

just

>> No. In the Apple podcast ranking.

podcasting, let's be clear, so you don't

make a show out of it. Um, so, uh, but

talk about these deals because they're

really because you can't go on YouTube.

It's all of them, right? Is that And he

was he did it the the normal way, which

was an iHeart deal. You could do those.

There's a bunch of companies like this,

but now this was a this is for Spotify

and Netflix, which is interesting. And

Spotify had tried, you know, the Rogan

thing obviously they did signed a bunch

of deals that didn't work out. Um, you

know, and so talk a little bit about

this. What do you how do you look at

this market right now and what do these

indicate to you?

>> Well, first off, uh let me just say with

with Jay, I'm really happy for him. I I

don't know him well, but I know him.

I've been on his podcast a couple times.

I think he's a lovely man and I think he

does a good job. And essentially what he

realized is the most valuable media

asset in podcasting isn't sports like it

is on cable TV. It's loneliness. He

figured how to monetize the largest

market in America and that is people who

need a friend. And so in Okay, so I'm

happy for Jay. I think he does a great

job. And by the way, I cannot get over

and I think it's total [ __ ] all the

hate that Jay and Mel Robbins get.

>> They get a lot

>> and it's just like, okay, don't listen

to their podcasts. They're not bad.

>> That's how I feel. I don't I'm not a big

fan of I mean, I like them. I like Mel

personally, but I just I get why people

find it annoying. It's a little bit

much.

>> Fine, then don't listen to it. But

>> I was literally in an elevator and

someone says, "Do you know Mel Robbins?

I find her very annoying." I'm like,

"Okay,

>> then don't listen."

>> That's what I said.

>> Of nothing.

>> I mean, the reality is any bestselling

author, if you say bestselling author is

full of [ __ ] you get elevated in the

the ratings. So, people are [ __ ] posting

every bestselling author to get another

70 bucks from from [ __ ] TikTok. Have

at it. But I've never understood the

hate for Jay and Mel. I think they're

both nice people doing their best, doing

good work. And if you don't like their

work, which I understand, it's not for

everybody. You know, the whole kind of

monk rap gets a little bit old

sometimes.

>> I'm not a fan of the self-help stuff.

>> Yeah, fine. Then don't listen. That's

fine.

>> Yeah.

>> But there's two things here. This

dynamic that's colliding is the

following.

The largest the fastest growing ad

supported medium is not even

it's not even YouTube in terms of

revenue or or meta. It's podcasts. They

think the I think the ad revenue is

going to be up 21% this year on

podcasting. In addition,

40% of I think about 20% of ours and 40%

of Propy Markets pods are watched or

listened to on a TV cuz they're streamed

off of YouTube. So essentially what a

podcast is, it's a television show

>> for 10% of the production value or cost.

>> So the means of production of TV is

being arbed into podcasting. And now 55%

of Americans have listened to a podcast

recently. So in addition, the intimacy

of the relationship advertisers really

like and the CPMs for Pivot are $45. The

CPMs for CNN are 13. And then you

combine it with the following.

There's this dirty secret of podcasting

called the RSS feed. And slowly but

surely, you build up subscribers. And

every time a show comes out, it's

automatically downloaded to an iPhone

and it's counted as a listen. So the

people who've been in it for 3, 5, 10

years, as you have, who have built large

RSS feeds have moes. So what you have is

a series of acquirers going, we need

growth. Let's go find a podcast and a

small number of podcasts that actually

have large RSS feeds because you cannot

uh you know when LandMen comes out it's

a hit overnight. It's hard for a podcast

if you look at the top 10 podcasts even

a in any category they're usually the

original gangsters or they're people

who've been around for a while.

>> You're absolutely right. So you have

demand and you have sequestered or

pretty big moes which all adds up to

large acquisition prices relative to

their revenues. I bet Jay does 10 to 20

million a year. So he's getting sold at

10 to five times revenues which is a

lot. But you're about to see and we've

been predicting this and I'm talking our

own book here but I've been saying this

for the last two years. There just

aren't when Spotify, iHeart, Sirius,

you know, and James Murdoch go looking

for podcasts. There aren't that many of

scale,

>> you know. It's really interesting and it

is the cost structure and which people

don't understand and it is television

because our YouTube audience find uh

revenues are growing pretty smartly. Um

and it's a really interesting way to

deliver news. that's, you know, it's

it's what people want, which is why

you're seeing the podification of

network news. I just don't think it's

going to work. I think you either just

have to go this way or not. I don't

think you can switch that audience over

because they're older and they like the

way it is. So, you're going to see these

declines like you see at CBS because

they don't like the new stuff you're

doing. Um, you it's kind of just like a

you need to do a hard reset with a lot

of this stuff. Um, but I agree. I think

it's interesting and they can actually

usually make the money back. But the

foregoing of YouTube versus Netflix is a

really interesting and it'll depend on

the on on what your product is at any

one time whether you want to sort of be

in the safe harbor of Netflix, Spotify

or you want to be out in the open in the

in a YouTube Google world essentially.

Um which I people can mix and match too

by the way which is what's great about

it, right? Presumably.

>> Well, the most powerful media company in

the world that's on a tech. Well, the

most powerful

>> saying you're a giant hand there. Look

at that. Keep put your big hand up

there. Oh. Oh. Okay.

>> I'm very self-conscious of my hands. I

have my I have my mother's hands.

They're not

my hands I in the competition for my

worst feature. It is the Olympics. I

mean, it is there's a lot of

competitors. Yeah.

>> But my hands are right up there. I'm

very self-conscious of my hands. That's

why I don't wear jewelry.

>> They're perfectly nice. Anyways, so uh

Netflix I think is the most powerful

media company in the world or

traditional media company and they're

getting into podcasting and overnight

they're going to be able to whoever they

decide to distribute or acquire

overnight that podcast is going to be I

mean they'll be king they'll be the new

king and queen makers of podcasting.

>> I thought it was bad news for iHeart

I'll tell you that was a good

>> I think that's right. iHeart is a

company that's gone I think through

bankruptcy once or twice and they have

to be economically rational. They don't

have access to cheap capital. So they if

iHeart shows up and Spotify and Netflix

show up to a bidding war,

>> you go with them.

>> I don't know who wins. I just know

iHeart loses.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> iHeart can't can't justify the

valuations these guys can justify. you

know, if you know even a serious

basically I think you're going to see

Spotify

and Netflix take the whole value of the

podcast ecosystem up. And not only that,

if your podcast does

a 10 million downloads a month, you're

worth four times the podcast that does 5

million because it is so hard in this

environment to find scale. It's very

similar to cable TV in the sense that

the there's a small number of

personalities who extract the majority

of the economics.

>> Yeah.

>> And it's the same it's the same in

podcasting. But but I want to finish

where I started.

>> I'm really happy for Jay. I like it when

people

>> he's been in the business for 10 years.

He's a nice man.

>> He has worked at it. Yeah, he has worked

at it.

>> Good for him.

>> Yeah. Well, just don't listen to him if

you don't like him. That's my feeling on

a lot of things.

>> He and I have been sexing in related

news

>> on kicks. Kicks is a dreamy. Let me just

tell you screamy. He has the most

beautiful eyes.

>> Latner definitely picked the dirty one.

I'll just say he picked the dirty one.

Kicks is dirty.

>> I don't know anything about how would

you even know that? I don't know any of

these

>> because I know all these sites. I don't

use any of them.

>> Really? Do you go on talk about do you

offer other to powerwash other lesbians

backyard? You little saucy mink. You

>> Scott, I fix my power washer this

weekend. I was very excited. Anyway, uh

>> so just on that note before we go, I

think the new thing a guy asked me for

dating advice and he's like I'm never

going to go graduate from college. What

will I ever be able to find a woman? And

I'm like I think the new sexy is

bluecollar romance and that is

>> no poetry. Don't send a car for her.

>> Fix her [ __ ] refrigerator. I think

that gets women really hot.

>> Look at a woman's stressors

>> and treat them like they're your enemy.

Fill up her car with gas.

>> All right. Okay. Like

>> Amanda is not impressed with my power

washing. She makes fun of me, but that's

fine.

>> I think if you want to get a woman, I

think humor is the ultimate aphrodesiac

with women behind maybe money, but I

think a a decent runner up is to look at

a woman's acts of service. And if you

know how to fix [ __ ] you know, move

your girlfriend, show up and fix fix the

air conditioner, like attack her

problems like they're your enemies.

>> I like it. Self-help from Scott

Galloway. Okay, Scott, let's go. In a

quick break, when we come back, big IPO

news from Anthropic.

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Scott, we're back with breaking news.

Anthropic just confidentially filed its

IPO with the SEC. It has not disclosed

the size or terms the offering. I'm

excited for you to read it for me and

tell me what's in there. But before

that, Anthropic hit a major milestone

last week, passing OpenAI to become the

most valuable AI startup in the world.

The company announced a 65 billion

funding round. I can't believe I'm

saying billion round that values at 965

billion, very close to uh very close to

the top. Um to put things in

perspective, uh OpenAI announced a $730

billion valuation back in February, but

it took the company to around a decade

to reach that number. It just keeps

escalating. Anthropic, which was founded

5 years ago, has beaten the valuation in

half the time. Uh did anyone see this

coming? Scott Galloway did. Let's listen

to Scott's prediction from February.

>> As we sit here today, I actually think

that Anthropic or in the next 12 months,

this one of our predictions is going to

be worth more than open AI. Very well

done. What does this valuation mean for

Anthropics IPO as well as OpenAI and

SpaceX? By the way, SpaceX is now

targeting an IPO valuation of 1.8

trillion after feedback from advisers

and investors according to Bloomberg.

That's a step down from the initially

reported 2 trillion. Uh it's still too

much. Um uh anyway, uh thoughts? What do

you think? You got that one right, and

we'll be looking at the the filing when

we get to be able to see it, but we

don't know a lot yet. I don't think any

company in the world has the momentum

right now of Anthropic. And it was built

a genius move. They went after the

enterprise market.

And I mean the pivot, you have never

seen a number two this viciously become

the number one this fast.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, you've never seen Avis

overtake Hertz this fast. You've never

seen Pepsi overtake Coke like this this

fast. And the thing the thing that's so

impressive about this isn't the

valuation. It's the speed.

Google took 20 years to reach a trillion

dollars. Anthropic got there in five. It

was founded in 2021 and if it had been

founded in Amsterdam, it would be one of

the five most valuable companies in

Europe. And it did it in five years.

>> I mean, it's it's not capital formation.

It's it's financial teleportation. Five

years. Zero to a trillion dollars.

>> Yeah.

>> We keep talking about how AI might

transform the world. May maybe, maybe

not. But it's definitely transforming

capital formation.

And I mean, the one advantage America

has is that we will do these $60 billion

rounds after two or three years. And in

Europe, they just don't have that type

of capital formation. They just

>> I want you to give me the downside

because you were you definitely called

this, but what would be the worry for

you of maybe all three IPOs or this one?

What would be the warning signs or

something you would pay attention to

because you're not always fully like up

and to the right as a person?

>> Oh,

these stocks and the collective

hallucination around the valuations

here.

One or more of these stocks is going to

be off 40 to 70% and it's going to send

the US and the global economy into a

recession. The US has become a giant bet

on AI and these companies are

overvalued. The technology will survive.

These valuations won't. There's just I'm

sorry SpaceX at 100 times revenues

you know open AI at what's it going on

at 20 every every big company we follow

has in the last 10 years been off

between 40 and 70% in a 12-month period

that's fine that's part of the cycle of

high growth companies up and down the

difference here is that we've bet the

entire economy on these magnificent 10

93% of our GDP growth is coming from AI

high capex. So when these companies, you

know, they always say company, if the

American economy sneezes, the world

catches a cold. We're going to catch

[ __ ] pneumonia, right?

>> When the expectations, an MIT professor

just came out with a study saying 95% of

CFOs aren't seeing the ROI on their

investments in AI.

>> As we noted last week with the Uber uh

COO, right, talking about about the

money spent,

>> the the danger here is the following. Uh

folks, I I don't think I think Anthropic

is the only one of these three that has

a reasonable shot at trading above its

IPO price 12 months out. There's just

gravity. No basketball player has ever

been in the air for more than 1 second.

For some reason, 1 second is the limit.

None of these companies can justify

their valuation unless they are able to

literally destroy the labor market. I

just got off the I just got off a

podcast with the CEO of Lily and I said

AI as it relates to drug discovery

underhyped or overhyped. This is a

measure guy and he's like overhyped.

The the the incentives from Amazon that

the more you more tokens you use the

more will compensate you. That shit's

about to go away. And the first big

company that announces we're cutting

back our AI spending,

you know, you're going to see the GDP of

Germany come out of the market. And

unfortunately the US market

>> is is frothy because of that. Because of

that

>> we're now concentrated the entire US

economy is a bet on 10 companies.

>> You know I have to say months ago Mark

Cuban said there's going to be a point

where tokens are being more expensive

than people. Like and he wanted me to

ask Daario that question. Yeah. It's a

great question.

>> He was like I was interviewing him at an

off-site thing and he's like that's the

question. When do people cost less than

tokens? And tokens are getting too

expensive which is interesting. Anyway,

we'll see what happens. But we'll I'm

excited for you to read it for me. Um,

all right, let's go on a quick break.

When we come back, some updates on

America's 250th celebration.

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Scott, we're back with more news.

America's 250th birthday. Will now be a

mega rally. Apparently, President Trump

called for cancing the concert series at

the planned event after several

musicians dropped out because they they

were told it was nonpartisan. It's

obviously not nonpartisan. Instead,

Trump suggested he should headline the

event, calling himself the number one

attraction anywhere in the world, but

there's a lot, you know, and now his

name's going to be yanked off the the

Kennedy Center. A judge has ordered his

name to be taken down. I again, a lot of

performative stuff, but still

irritating. any predictions for the

250th celebration? It feels like no

one's any closer to that he is not

backing down on on celebrating himself,

including a $250 bill. Scott Besson has

soiled himself once again. So thoughts?

>> Yeah, you know, it's obnoxious and we'd

like to think that it's bad for him, but

you know, I hate to admit it as someone

who thinks about brands a lot. You could

make an argument that the most

successful consumer brand of the last

decade isn't Tesla, Apple, or Nike. It's

Trump. And

you know,

>> he's put it out. He's used the

presidency to to

>> That's the right analogy. It used to be

a public office and now it's

increasingly an entertainment franchise.

And I think he has I I just think

Democrats, like Robert McNamera said, if

you want to defeat an an enemy, you have

to empathize with them. There's just no

getting around it. The guy has an

incredible feel for branding and

marketing. And the product is awful. It

is It is like the greatest brand. what

he's been able to do with this shitty a

product, an inconsistent product.

>> The stakes, the water.

>> It really is in incredible. I I think

this is quite frankly, I think this

comes and goes. I don't think it's a big

story. What do you think?

>> I don't I think it's it makes us all

feel bad about America on the 250th

anniversary. I mean, I'm going to be

somewhere far away uh from Washington.

Um and I just think him I think all

these these artists pulling out was

interesting that you know, they were

like, "Yeah, no, they I think they see

what's going to Vermont. Isn't that

where all

>> That's where I'm going. That's

whereactly where I'm going. It's with

Amanda's family.

>> Did I get that right?

>> You did.

>> Oh my god. Stereotypes are for a reason.

>> Amanda's family has rebuilt their their

barn. They had a barn house and it was

going to fall down and they rebuilt it

and it's very lovely. And so we're going

up there. That's where we're going.

>> I can't believe I got that right.

>> You totally got that right. Oh my god.

Um anyway, um I'll trumpmp around and

hike.

>> You got the dog guard for the German

Shepherd in the back of the Subaru. Oh,

I don't have a dog. I would like to have

a dog, maybe, but they mess up my

beautiful yard work. Um, so cats don't

mess up yard work. They just bring in

chipmunks into the house. Um, uh, no, I

think it's just, you know, I remember.

Do you remember the 200th? I do. I do. I

was I was a kid. I was at camp. I

remember

>> I got a special commemorative coin from

the Franklin Mint.

>> Yeah. I really like the 200th. And I

felt very proud of this country at the

time. And I feel like gh like why do you

have to make everything so cheesy and

griy and gross like it would I'm excited

for the 300th. I'll be dead but that's

okay. Um but I mean it's just it feels

like grifty and gross. Although I did

recently run into um

>> you might be around. Actually I'm going

to call challenge on that. You'll be 13.

>> No I will not be around for that. Anyway

I just ran into Ken Burns at something.

He always makes me feel better about

about things. I just always I want to

hang out with Ken Barn Burns in Vermont

and go hiking. That's what I want to do

because I like listening to him tell

tales of our founding fathers and I feel

better.

>> Well, but but but just to that point, if

you want to feel better about America

and this the space we're in and we're

incredible narcissists, we like to think

that we're in uniquely good or uniquely

bad times. Folks, as bad as things are,

things have been much worse in America

and we've always been able to come back

stronger.

>> Yeah.

>> That's not to say you don't need to

vote. You don't need to be alarmed. You

don't need to take action. But at 1.1%

of America, American population

controlled the government and it

happened to be the slave owners. 80

years ago, we were interning people in

makeshift concentration camps because

their parents were or because they

immigrated from Japan. We have been in

pretty dark places before.

>> Yeah. Yeah, we have.

>> Anyways, history makes me feel with Ken

Burns in Vermont. That's my goal. Um,

anyway, last story. Blue Origin is

facing a major setback ever. New Glenn

rocket exploded during a test on a

launch pad last week. The company said

all personnel were safe and described

the incident as an anomaly. Jeff Bezos

posted on X, very rough day, but we'll

rebuild whatever needs rebuilding and

get it back to flying. It's worth it.

The explosion which damaged Blue

Origin's launchpad, which is a critical

problem. It's a significant blow. Uh

they've spent about a billion dollars on

it. I think it's a Cape Canaveral um to

challenge SpaceX in the commercial space

race. And one of the things about the

New Glenn is they can put up they're

they're trying with their LEO system um

to put up lots of satellites. they have

a couple hundred and and space uh

Starlink has I don't know 10,000 or

close to 10,000 and so they've been

trying to do this and these new Glenn

rockets would put up I think 48 or 50 as

opposed to a couple that they put up in

their smaller rockets. Um you know it's

a real problem for the launch pad they

only had one for the big for the big one

and for it to blow up on the launchpad

from what I understand I've been talking

to a lot of rocket people is bad. Um, it

should have blown up in the air of all

things because then they would have been

able to preserve the launch pad. Um,

it's not great. It's not a great thing.

And thank God Elon didn't didn't, you

know, go o on and on about it. He

because he knows he blows up his own

rockets frequently. Um, but it's a it

would be nice to have more than one uh

in this area, although two of the same

people, but still the compet

competition. Thoughts?

>> I I just couldn't wait. Like as soon as

I saw the explosion, I immediately

posted it on threads and said Bezos back

on CNBC again. Um, which I thought was

really good. It didn't get that many

likes, but I thought that was funny.

Like my favorite I always like to hear

the live broadcast because the the

individual

>> and they're trained to do this. They

always call an explosion an anomaly.

>> An anomaly. Yeah.

>> Which is like calling my divorce a

scheduling conflict.

It's like

>> we can make jokes cuz nobody was gay.

>> A disagreement. A mild disagreement.

>> Metal mangled. Yeah.

>> You know, and and my favorite I it's

like

>> I don't fully understand and this this

happens all the time, but when a rocket

blows up on the launch pad, isn't that

like failing a sobriety test in the

parking lot?

>> Yeah.

>> I mean,

>> yeah.

>> You I need to understand the physics,

but just to be clear,

>> not good. One of the reasons private

companies like SpaceX and Blue Origin

have succeeded or have caught in some

way surpassed NASA is that they're

allowed to move further out the risk

curve and explode rockets on the

launchpad. If NASA did this, there's a

feeling of government failure. They

can't take these kinds of risks. And to

a certain extent, just as I feel like

you see need a certain number of bank

failures every once in a while to show

that you are allocating capital at close

to or near the efficient frontier of

growth, you do I hate to say this, I

think you do need a certain number of

explosions on the launchpad because what

that says is

>> and by the way my understanding is not a

single person was injured or killed

here.

>> That's right.

>> This is a loss of capital from a company

that has access to a lot of capital.

>> It's not good. It's not because they

were trying to get like think about it a

couple hundred versus 10,000 satellites

like you

>> but Elon's had them explode. This is a

function of

>> No, no, no. But he has 10,000 satellites

up there. This is this is everyone talks

about Mars and everything else. This is

a race for satellite dominance. But only

one company dominates at this point. And

so it's a setback in that they can't get

dozens of these things up. They can get

a couple on these smaller rockets. And

you know, they're trying very hard. It's

just it's still someone when they saw

the explosion said to me, "Oh, look.

It's the Washington Post budget for a

year like or something." I was sort of

laughed. It's true. He doesn't mind

losing money here. And he's losing

money. Let's be clear. Um he he's hoping

for a payoff later. Although looking at

the the rocket business at Spa SpaceX is

not the greatest business in the world

right now yet either. Well,

>> Starlink is Starink is

>> it's got to drive him crazy that he's

behind

>> he looks like he's behind a guy who's

running six companies at the same time.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And and right now, you know, Blue Origin

is looking less like NASA and more like

I don't know, Neiman Marcus with

Propulsion. I mean, just like

>> True. But, you know, there's summer

yaching to do. You know, I don't know if

you know that, but that's Bezos's job

during the summer.

>> I'm I told you I'm here for his midlife

crisis.

>> Yeah, I know you like that. I think I've

got invited back to the event he goes to

that I thought I was disinvited from

because I thought Elon was going. I'm

not going to tell you because I don't

want to get disinvited.

>> God, I never get invited.

>> How do you get invited to? What do they

think you're like? Like a psy.

>> They think they can turn me, I think.

And by the way, I am a psy. You've

listened to my interview.

>> You can be turned. Actually, part of me

thinks that you can be.

>> Oh, no. If I if I turn, it's going to be

towards way to the left.

>> Yeah. Okay.

>> Every day I get a little bit more

Bernie.

>> Oh, wow. Okay. All right. No, but but uh

>> people are always coming for you and

really it irritates me especially cuz

they're irritating people that come for

you anyway.

>> Coming for you mean hating on me or

inviting

>> wanting you to do stuff. I'm very

irritated.

>> That bothers you. I like that.

>> Bothers me. I'm like get get your mitts

off my dick jokes at conferences.

>> Get your mitts off my imperfect ally.

>> No, no. I told a dick joke right while

Anthony Blinkin was on stage. That was a

that was a moment.

>> Oh, okay. All right. He's a nice He's a

handsome man.

>> Yeah, he's a handsome man.

>> I I ran into him at the party recently.

>> I think people are scared of you. I

think they're less scared of me.

>> I don't know. I never

>> And they know I like to drink. I bring a

good vibe.

>> All right. Okay. Not unfun. I'm going on

the view anyway.

>> Oh, that is true. That's a big You know

what? That's a That's a You would rather

be invited to be on the view than go to

this thing.

>> You're right. You're right. But I like

to just So because I like to see their

discomfort when I'm there because I

never really do anything. I'm quite

cordial. Oh, speaking of invitations and

bringing this back to me. I'm going to

Brilliant Minds next week.

>> Oh, you are? That's fun. I went to it

many years ago. The first like

>> It's in Sweden, right? Yeah, it was

lovely. It was very lovely. The sun

never sets, which [ __ ] with me.

>> No, that's why I'm gone. I can't wait to

go to Star.

>> The Sun Never Sets. And that was

offsetting to me for some reason. It

just I couldn't stand it being so bright

at midnight. That was Anyway, one more

quick break. We'll be back for Winds and

Fails.

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Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and

fails. I I Should you go first or should

>> No, you go first. I've been doing all

the talk.

>> Okay, I'm gonna win. I just interviewed

this young man, Theo Baker. It's right

here. This is his book, uh, How to Rule

the World. Um, and it's about it's

education and power at Stanford

University. This is the kid who did all

those stories as a 17-year-old on the

head of Stanford. Um, being part of a

false he didn't falsify the information,

but several papers he had his name on

did and he never moved to correct them.

Um, just a he's the son of two

well-known Washington reporters. I'm not

going to say their names because I he's

his own person. Wonderful book about

power techn he's a technologist who

loves technology. He's also an

astonishing reporter. uh just a great uh

really great I felt so good for

journalism. He started off as a and just

really is doing it got amazing reviews,

How to Rule the World, Theo Baker. He's

very young. He's just graduating

Stanford in two weeks. uh although he

he's just run right over them with his

amazing reporting and this is a really

interesting book including about this

one group called How to Rule the World,

the course, the secret course that you

have to get tapped for at Stanford and

how they made so many um misshapen

entrepreneurs, mentally misshapen

entrepreneurs. And I just it's nice to

hear from a young person in this regard.

Um and I just think he's a really he has

a big career ahead of him.

>> That's nice. Um, yeah. And and Amy

Pascal has bought the book for a movie

and

>> he's the kids are all right. I always

when I did this interview, I felt the

kids are [ __ ] all right.

>> Uh, and it extends also to my kids. Like

Alex is killing it at his job. I can't

say where it is, but it's a it's a big

car company and he's loving it and he's

the enthusiasm is enormous. And Louisie

is working at a restaurant in San

Francisco and he loves it in a political

campaign. So, the kids are [ __ ] all

right. That's what I feel good about.

So, um,

>> named a car company. Let me get this. He

went to Michigan.

>> There's a lot of them. I don't know.

He's having a great time. He's having a

great time. He's learning so much and

it's really wonderful for him. Um, he

asked me not to, so I'm not going to.

Okay. My fail is I do think it's around

this uh Graham Platner thing. And I

Amanda and I did have a disagreement

about it. She's quite irritated by him.

>> Did you have hot sex after?

>> No. No, we did not. We were exhausted

from all the children's parties. Um, let

me say and my power washing. Um, let me

say this. I know this people don't like

it, but at some point we just have to

this and I know people are going to say

we have to have purity tests and you

coming from white lady Cara, old white

lady Cara who has money, etc. I don't

care. I just I never have cared for

zeroing in on people's personal issues.

I can have personal feelings about it

like friends who have shitty boyfriends

or whatever, but Grand Platner's wife is

not my friend. I might have a different

piece of advice for her if that was the

case. And but I just feel like it's

their business. Like it's even even with

Ken Paxton as much of a I think he's

more the fraudulent stuff with his wife.

I don't it sounds like he's a liar and a

cheat in that way he handled it and

treated her which says a lot about his

judgment and I think that's pertinent

but I almost don't care even about that

and and although there are some things

to learn and so I think the judginess of

people has really got to stop it's got

and not only because the Republicans do

it that's not the reason to do it it's

not kind and it's not and it's not there

is a goal here and we cannot make people

feel like [ __ ] all the time for

mistakes. I've made mistakes. Scott's

made mistakes. Um I we're all imperfect

and that's that's what I think about. So

it's a failure of our country to

continue on to in that down that road.

We have to leave some things behind.

Thank you.

>> Uh my win I just interviewed uh the CEO

of Eli Lily, a guy named David Ricks,

and I I'm just fascinated with Lily.

They made a huge bet on GLP-1 drugs as

you know I'm I think a revolutionary. I

think GLP1 is going to be a more

important technology than AI. And this

company has uh quintupled its market cap

in the last 5 years. And one of the

things I absolutely cuz they made a big

bet on GLP1. GLP1's just 12 months ago

were averaging $1,000 a month. They've

already been cut to $250 to $500. It's a

definition of elasticity. I think at

some point these drugs are going to be

less than $100 a month and maybe even

lower than that. And I think the demand

will absolutely explode. So, I think the

market is doing a really good job here

of trying to get these drugs to the

people who need them the most. And I

think these drugs are just absolutely

revolutionary in terms of everything

from obviously from obesity, but

reduction in alcoholism, biting your

nails, they're giving it to kids with

social media addictions. I, you know, I

I think it's it's not about eating less,

it's about wanting less. I just I'm

fascinated by these things. And this

company, Eli Liy, is the first trillion

dollar was the first pharmaceutical

company to breach a trillion dollars.

It's the 13th most valuable company in

the world. And the thing I love about

this place, it's not in San Francisco,

it's not in New York, it's not in

London. Do you know where their

headquarters are?

>> No, I don't. Where are they?

>> Indianapolis.

>> Oh, cool.

>> And this guy kind of reeks it. He went

to Purdue, followed uh love of his life

to Indiana where he went to the Kelly

School. They employ 50,000 people. It's

easily the most important company in

Indiana if not the Midwest. But we spend

so much time talking about the Bay Area

or New York. And I just love a trillion

dollar company.

>> That's a great interview for you. That's

a great interview. You've been you have

been a very early person on GLP1s.

>> I find them absolutely fascinating. Much

talk to someone who uses AI for their

work and just loves it. And talk and if

that person is also on GLP1, ask them

what's had a bigger impact on their

life.

>> I think if I could go short AI and long

GLP1, that would be my investment thesis

for the next decade. Anyway,

>> okay. great company,

CEO is just reeks of kind of Midwestern

values and I'm glad they're just doing

so well. I think it they've made a huge

bet and it's paying off in spades. My

fail was going to be what you said. I I

I personally don't trust anyone who

hasn't said something stupid or drank

too much at some point or I don't know

had failings in their m I I I always

wonder okay should we stab this person

with a fork to see if they're actually

human when they present this pure image

of themselves and I'm sure those people

are out there but you're you know

there by the grace of God go I and if

you want if you want better candidates

folks

focus on whether they'd be a good

[ __ ] senator. They're not they don't

need to be your rabbi. Like, do you

think they're smart around policy? Do

you think they demonstrate good

leadership skills? And if you look at

the best leaders in terms of actually

moving America forward, sometimes

they're not exactly

priests. I mean, anyway, I But where my

fail is, you you summarize that more

articulately than I did, but where I go

is the real fail. Jesus Christ.

>> Yeah. Platiner. Just own it.

>> Own it. Yep.

>> Own it.

>> Own it.

>> I've made a mistake. I've demonstrated

terrible judgment in my marriage.

>> Boy, yes. Me, too.

>> And I have a great marriage.

>> Yeah.

>> And guess what? The majority of people

in America who have demonstrated

terrible judgment in relationships can

still have great marriages.

And it says something about her. It says

something about me. It says something

>> I get better. I have to say I'm better

at this marriage. Although not perfect

either, by the way. I have a lot of

failings. But um you get better

>> as you get older. You do get better. I

agree. These candidates fail and crisis

communications is so easy yet everyone

gets it wrong.

>> Own the issue. Acknowledge the problem.

>> Own

but all they've done is they've kept it

alive in the cycle by denying it and

attacking the media. They couldn't have

in my opinion help themselves.

>> Again, it's not about the scandal,

folks. It's how you handle it. That's

it. Anyways, that's my deal.

>> They're mad. They're mad. What do you

want? Anyway, uh that was a great one.

We want to hear from you. Send us your

questions about business tech or

whatever is on your mind. Go to

nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for

the show or call 8551

Pivot. And elsewhere in the Karen Scott

universe this week and on with Caris

Swisser, I talked to former NPR host

Audi Cornish and Ari Shapiro who have

reunited for a new CNN cultural podcast

called Engagement Party. Audi says the

goal is to help people get out of the

cultural silos. Speaking of that, um

that put social media puts us in. Let's

listen to a clip. I'm doing this kind of

show to jailbreak the algorithm. I hate

the for you page. My kingdom for an

actual search that works. I don't like

the word feed. Like everything about the

way they have structured social media in

the last 10 to 15 years bothers me

deeply.

>> You know, the only word that they say

user, that's the other industry that

uses the word user.

>> Drugs.

>> Exactly. Like all those I do the same

thing. I'm like, yeah. Feed user. like

just everything about it, content, it's

just

>> they hate us.

>> It was really fun. It was actually a

really fun interview with the two of

them. Uh they're really

>> She's very talented.

>> She is. And so is Ari. Ari is terrific,

too. Really interesting pairing. They're

trying to do pivot, but less dick jokes,

I think.

>> Um okay, that's

>> Well, then [ __ ] them.

>> [ __ ] them. [ __ ] them. They can't.

>> [ __ ] you, Ari. Good luck. Um okay,

that's Everyone's trying to do pivot,

just so you know. Okay, that's the show.

Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure

to like and subscribe to our YouTube

channel. We'll be back on Friday.