So, the retreat, let's finish that off

real quick. So, we got together.

>> What did you learn this time around? Cuz

we've done this twice. You've dabbled in

the world of Zen. You've always said,

correct me if I'm wrong, but meditation

has been a hard thing for you typically.

>> Mhm.

>> Where are you now with your practice?

>> Well, what I would say is, you know, the

first thing, speaking as a very much

still a novice on any level, I would say

that meditation is kind of like sports

or exercise. It's like, do you like

exercise? like well what kind of

exercise right meditation there's so

many different ways

>> to meditate or explore mindfulness

there's the vaposa approach there's

transcendental meditation there's zen

which is very much its own thing right

and you know more about that than I do

but what I do find helpful about the

retreats is you can describe what is

going on when you're sitting still with

your eyes closed trying to focus on

something in the case of say the breath

or trying to just observe whatever comes

up.

>> Mhm. And the feedback that you get from

someone like Henry or Valerie where you

can do a 25 minute sit and then take a

short break, talk about it and they can

say well given that you experienced this

this maybe you had restlessness maybe

you had in my case this sort of planning

compulsion right

>> so rather than memories or fantasies

about who knows what not necessarily

people can run wild with that, but I

default to plans like things I need to

do,

>> right?

>> And it's like, okay, well, if that's

coming up, then Henry might say, why

don't you try in the next set, which

we're going to do in 10 minutes or 5

minutes, A, B, or C. And then you do it,

and you provide feedback. And so, you're

able to really polish the stone moving

forward. And similar I suppose to a lot

of what we might call transcendental

experiences which sounds fancy but it's

really just perhaps not fixating on the

self or interrogating what this thing is

that we call the self which you can do

through meditation. You can also do it

with or maybe you're forced to do it in

some cases with psychedelic experiences

or other things breath work.

>> When I was there at the retreat you

might remember this. I was getting very

frustrated and I was like where's all

this frustration coming from?

>> Yeah. And while I was there, I was like,

I don't know how much I'm getting out of

this right now.

>> But when I got back to quote unquote

real life in Austin, I had like 3 to 5

days of this just kind of blissful, calm

attention where I was able to get

everything done I need to get done.

There was no rushing.

>> There was no looping and any kind of

future tripping. And I was like, well,

that's very interesting. And it also

holds true for say breath work,

psychedelics. There are many different

things that you could look at. And

interestingly, maybe this is one way to

think of it. I mean, in a sense, there

are a lot of parallels between different

methods for entering what people might

consider a trans state. And I don't

think meditation is exempt from that

depending on what it is. But if it's a

concentration practice, it's like for

sure

>> you're using a mantra or you're using

something you're repeating. in the case

of

>> TM in the same way that you might use

rhythmic drumming.

>> Yeah.

>> And you can go some pretty weird places

and then you come out of you're like, I

don't know what to make of that

>> and sometimes the payoff is what you

notice in the next unfolding week or two

or three or whatever the duration might

be.

>> That's right.

>> So that was that was very invigorating

for me. And also Henry at one point used

a prompt

in response to I'll give a great this is

a real world example of something that

happened to me something I experienced

in a sit and then Henry's response right

so I use the way all the time full

disclosure we're both involved with it I

mean it's really because

more than anything else it's just I

think it's good for humanity and people

to learn from somebody who is really

deliberate about layering on progressive

skills that you can take outside of the

meditation.

But one of the practices is labeling. So

if and there are a million different

ways to do this, but let's just say talk

comes up in the mind and you label it

radio or talking. And then if some kind

of video comes up in the mind, right?

Images, you're imagining something or

planning something or remembering

something. Okay, that's video, right?

And so on and so forth. Yeah. But for

me, as someone with very well

established OCD,

I can just end up being like radio radio

radio radio and it turns into

>> instead of a helpful thing, a very

interruptive, stressful thing, right?

>> And at that point in the retreat, and

the retreat clear it was 3 to

>> 4 days, something like that. It was very

short. Henry said, "Okay, well, let's"

He moved into the next sit and he said,

"Just be still, right?" Like, "Just be

still. That's it. That is the focus.

Like, just sit still." And did that for

two consecutive sits. I just focused on

that. And it was remarkable how much

everything calmed down. I was like,

"Okay,

>> well, just like exercise, like some

people, sure can go to the gym and do

full sprinting workouts on an incline

treadmill. Not everybody can do that,

>> right? and other folks are well suited

to yoga. Some people are well suited to

different types of lifting etc. And

everybody should probably spend a little

bit of time in each of those

compartments if they can.

>> But it's not like everyone is equally

suited for instance in my case to like

the open monitoring stuff like we'll

just sit there and notice all the things

that come up. I was like, so I came out

of the retreat thinking, you know what,

something along the lines of

transcendental meditation, not

necessarily with that branding, but

using a using just be still as a

concentration practice that I repeat

really gives me a lot of payoff. If I

just sit still for 10 to 20 minutes

twice a Hey,