my tool manager came back stage and he

was like you know you almost killed

someone today like literally it's like

blackouts

[Music]

let's do this I signed to Simon Cowell

because my manager at the time was like

it's a bigger check you're in a label

that is going to prioritize you because

you're not like anything on their label

this business comes around it and it

says we can turn this into money but

allowed someone else to tell me what my

next direction is

yeah everyone was like be a star have an

Entourage and who you're going to go out

with and I was like what do you mean oh

maybe sure Lloyd and I was like what

none of this [ __ ] means anything to me I

just was like I'm not enjoying this I

didn't ask myself what I wanted because

I was always accommodating what everyone

else wanted when did you realize that

something had to change well that's a

deep one though was that a place where I

couldn't actually talk to people because

I had social anxiety my manager was

being weird our relationship was

breaking down I had no confidence I felt

suppressed

I got like diagnosed with ADHD when I

read about what it's like I was like oh

[ __ ] it makes sense I can't even hold a

conversation with someone was it

prohibiting your life yeah 100 still

does today but I've learned to be aware

of it let's just do something just let

it go

Euphoria was the first time I felt

people actually heard the rarest form of

lab get into that point with true

freedom

what are your goals now the most

important thing in my career is to

before this episode starts I have a

small favor to ask from you two months

ago 74 of people that watch this channel

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this channel more than you know and the

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enjoy this episode

[Music]

podcast has taught me one thing it's

that

we're all created

by and defined and shaped and molded by

our earliest context

so when you think about your earliest

context and how that shaped who you are

today and the person you went on to be

I'm talking about the like deep

characteristics you have the Deep

passions you have and all those things

that were nurtured in those earliest

years

what is your early context what do I

need to know about that context to

understand you

well that's a deep one now

um I

the first thing that comes to my mind is

church

um family was super religious

not always in the best way

um and not that I don't think there's

anything wrong with religion it just was

it was wrapped in a lot of things

um

that I don't always think is healthy but

um a lot of there was a lot of beauty as

well in terms of Music

worship and for me in worship was

work with energy like seeing somebody

connect with an energy or taking them

from their body with a sound or within

with a um

with Connection in a church like seeing

that happen like every Sunday can do

something to you and you kind of learn

from it

um so that was always beautiful and just

watching my family because that like I

don't know how this happened but just

everyone can sing or play an instrument

or they have some kind of musical talent

that was super inspiring to be around

um and then having a massive family as

well was I think

heavily shaped me because I always say

this to people about standing in the

middle of my house when I was I don't

know 10. I would have my sisters

upstairs singing like r b records my

brother downstairs with his friends

playing like Yellow Jackets jazz music

and like I don't know like um weather

report and then my other brother Cypher

in a room with his friends rapping and

um banging on an NPC drum machine and

like being in the middle of that was

like I want to do all of them

um

um and it was just mad like insanely

inspiring just to be around all of these

big personalities

um that even today when I make music I'm

like would would my sister like this

with my brother like this would my

family feel this

um where did that come from

that musical household who inspired that

parents grandparents it's weird because

on my mom's side I think it's the church

honestly because my mom and dad were

both in in the church

um and they both went to the same church

my Grandad was a reverend at um this uh

the church and his

uh my aunties and uncles used to sing

around uh and and like kind of do praise

and worship and and do like a circuit

around the country and that kind of

passed down to us um on my mother's side

and then on my dad's side he's a

guitarist he's uh well rest in peace

he's he was a guitarist he was a bass

player

um and his whole family were also in the

musical side of the church so be like my

mum and her family singing and my dad in

the kind of uh I'm playing with the

musician so it was just kind of like

always always it was always around when

I was a kid and I think music has been

like I guess like my the other sibling

that I didn't know was there you know

that um that was related to us and I

think um yeah I think it was between

Christianity and thing that was the

beginning to me because my house was

very very heavily boarded Around Church

everything like literally we couldn't

watch uh TV and if uh with about like uh

the TV being turned off when somebody

was kissing so like romance was like oh

whoa that's of the devil and then when I

went to school that's when the

it was like the Kaleidoscope went wild

and it was like oh [ __ ] all of this

stuff exists I really did feel like that

when I was a kid because it was so

sheltered going to Central London was

like going to another country to me like

that's how sheltered it was and it was

like home church and then everything

else around that was like I'm in a whole

other world so growing up for me was

just like discovering this other other

universe or other dimension if that

makes sense too yeah yeah what was your

what's your relationship like with your

mother and father

whoo

um

my mother was

um like I was saying the church

was beautiful but also toxic and my

mother was

um she kind of shunned from the church

because she had children out of wedlock

and um like I'm saying it's very heavily

guided and boarded so she was um she was

kind of

disowned by a lot of our family and

um she she had moved from North London

to Hackney and from then on I didn't I

don't think I saw my grandparents

for years like um after that like after

she was kind of put out one thing that

happens in Jamaica is because of a lot

of them came over here to the land of

milk and honey

um with race anything white was better

so my mom was one of the darkest of her

family and she grew up with um being

kind of very a lot of her life was very

short like it was like you're you're the

darker one of the family so

um don't don't shoot for the don't shoot

for the stars just just stay on the

ground you know

um and so because she was around a lot

of that energy when she was on her own

she kind of it's actually made a promise

to herself to not do that to her kids

and so growing up with my mom it was

very super supportive really

um she used to teach us my mom like I

was saying it was very sheltered around

uh I'm very religious she wasn't taught

because women were supposed to be in the

house women supposed to clean and doors

have a husband and your husband will go

and make the money and do all that stuff

around it so she she came out of this

kind of uh community and had

no understanding of taxes no

understanding how to keep a house no

understanding of a business not nothing

she didn't know anything and so she

literally had to learn from scratch and

would study psychology and study

transactional analysis and study

willpower and she would teach us and sit

us all around the table and be like what

is willpower and I remember I remember

like vividly like nine of us sitting

around the table and at the time we were

like Mom come on this is so boring why

do we have to do this but she would kind

of pull us into it and then we would end

up having these big conversations about

things that we just we never understood

or never got and she just wanted to make

sure she could give us something because

she had no money and she was just kind

of surviving she she nurtured our music

music she nurtured our creativity and

when she was coming up that wasn't

nurtured it was shut up sit down and

don't get in our way and that was her

upbringing it wasn't just my

grandparents that was very much common

and a lot of the parents of the 60s it

was just like children are to be seen

and not heard you know and don't don't

embarrass me in front of my friends that

was very much that and then with my dad

my dad was he was um very much abused

when he was a kid by

um his grandparent by by his stepfather

he was being a lot when he was a kid and

I think that affected him as a as a man

like as a father and he left home when

he was 15. so he wasn't there for me I

didn't see my dad when I was a kid

um but I I pity his beginning like

because I get why

he became who he became he was super

Musical and I think that was maybe the

most inspiring thing and that's the

thing I I got from him I always used to

see him playing his guitar when did he

leave your household

he left how old were you [ __ ] I don't

even remember that's that's how long ago

like I was young I was super young and I

think he came back well he must have

came back twice because my I have two

brothers and sisters younger than me so

um am I yeah he came um I think he left

I think he left on me

um and then my two sisters

um that are younger than me Rachel and

Jessica

um he came back around and they were

trying to like kind of um rekindle yeah

yeah do you not remember the household

changing in any way when when he left

I think I was too young like I was I was

really young so so when I grew up not

giving a [ __ ] that I didn't have a dad I

like if that makes sense I I didn't have

a connection with him I didn't

um I didn't know him that way a lot of

my older brothers and sisters were very

close and very like this is my guy this

is you know like my kids

are like I'm best friends with my kids I

love I like I'm I'm we have our own

private jokes we you know like like we

have that I never had that with my dad

so I didn't feel like anyone left I only

noticed how important he was when he

died like I was like oh [ __ ] you needed

that and like it was out it was a wall

you only got this towering point he was

when he died yeah honestly like honestly

before then I was just like oh it's just

a spoon sperm donor

like I don't really does it doesn't

matter to me it doesn't like it's like

it was and it wasn't even by my mom it

was just like I I didn't I wasn't

bothered about it you know

um but then when he died I was like I I

had kids then he hadn't met my my kids

and I remember my I was putting my

daughters to sleep and she had a bad

dream and I said

um I got you don't worry I'm here and I

was like [ __ ] I've never heard that and

I was like oh that's what like that's a

dad like if you get me like that's

that's how important that part of your

life is and then I was like also you

inherent things from your parents like

and that's not money that's not wealth

you do of course inherit those things

but I think the most important thing you

inherit from your parents is memories

even like mental health support like my

dad always said this like that sometimes

is like Petrol in your tank when you're

like

um I don't know how to get this business

off the ground I remember dad always

said this I remember Mom said don't

never give up like all that stuff like I

didn't grow up with that like if you get

I mean so

um that hit me when I when I was like my

dad's gone and and I understood how Like

Instrumental a parent could be in your

life when those um when those things are

around you know

um yeah so that's what I saw anyway but

but yeah that's really like my parents

in terms of how they affected me I often

like I think I figured myself out in

hindsight by almost by comparison of

like comparing me to my peers at a very

young age you kind of notice how you're

different from your peers yeah even from

your brothers and sisters I've got four

there's four of us in my family kids I'm

the youngest of four and much of how

I've understood myself is by realizing

what I'm not yeah you know what I mean

so when you think about like at that

young age under the age of 18 what who

are we figuring out that you were in

comparison to the the outside world even

with my brothers and sisters I remember

coming home with um Indie records and I

remember I was working with a girl and

she played me

Blondie and uh like like loads of loads

of like like kind of 70s 80s uh Indie

records I was like [ __ ] this is fun like

I always wanted to delve in things that

were foreign to me because I was like

okay I grew up with Grime I grew up with

hip-hop I get it but it was like where

what are these things I don't understand

and then when I would bring them home

I'd be like check this out and I'll be

like okay bro especially coming from the

background of that gospel and

um like kind of like you know black

music

um um it was weird to come home with

music that that was so foreign you know

and so nobody even knew how to

compliment me on it but go like you're

doing your thing I guess like you know

and and I feel like I've seen that

happen uh consistently in my life where

I grew up around Grime group around

Grime artists I went to Grime Raves but

I never wanted to make Grime and I never

felt like I was

um the kind of black guy that I was

supposed to be when I was in those

environments I was like I was always

weird or like I never knew all the

dances I used to dance funky and like I

was just I just knew like I don't know

if I'm supposed to be here if I had 16

year olds you yeah 16 16 year old weird

as hell just just I remember my

girlfriend told me about how when she

met my wife now but when she was my

girlfriend she was like I remember

seeing you years ago

and

um uh you would wear a durag I would be

wearing like a um you know those capes

like Marilyn Manson came like it was

like [ __ ] black glass jet like long

ass jacket I would have like a you know

those metal Fingers um yeah yeah tube

yeah yeah yeah let's have a night finger

on and it had like a crucifix on it and

it was crazy I don't know why I was

wearing it but I wore it and then I had

like a Dunlop cap like backwards and

then I would be wearing Dunlop trainers

and I was just I was just a weird kid

and I would I would always dress

in the most funkiest ways ever and my

wife was like it was just so funny you

just didn't give a [ __ ] and I didn't

even notice I was doing it I just was

like well this is stuff I'm gonna wear

but most I remember being you know I was

like 14. all I wanted to do was fit in

so all I wanted to do was like wear the

outfits that everyone else was wearing

and just fit into the crowd and be

accepted by the crowd so you sound

slightly different I couldn't I even if

I wanted to wear what everyone was

wearing I couldn't I didn't have the

money so it was like what was cool with

my family or where our call was was that

we were creative and so we found our way

of being uh popular or being um uh kind

of loved amongst our peers by our like

character and our personality if you get

I mean that was your whole family yeah

all them dancers singers we would dance

together we used to put on we we done a

show in school together as a family and

put on like a concert and we had the

whole school come and pay to watch us

perform so we were kind of like little

superstars in our neighborhood like if

you get I mean as a group so I remember

used to write articles on us the Jackson

9 and all this stuff like so it was like

we were very like like kind of my family

was really loved for just their

creativity we never had the money to be

those cool kids like somehow we like

kind of um transcended uh the physical

cool like the physical side of cool

because we definitely didn't have that

stuff interesting

do you know who was driving that in your

so you've said like the outside world

responded well to it and they kind of

embraced it and said yeah but was there

someone was there someone at home

driving individuality in your in your

house or was it just the fact I think

it's my mom honestly and it wasn't my

mom this is my mom didn't get in the way

of it and I think that's one thing if

when I'm talking about things that you

inherit from your parents I could

definitely say I inherited that

inherited that from my and my my mom is

that she didn't get in the way of us

being ourselves

um and if anything she would laugh at it

or be like go do you like

um

um so like I remember yeah I remembered

vividly like that being just my mom

being open and kind of seeing my my

older brother Jamie was a producer and a

DJ and he used to make his own sound

systems because he got inspired by um

you know like dub basically you know

like dub but at the time everyone was

making like jungle but it was all it all

came from the scar dub world if you get

I mean and so he used to make I used to

help him make his speakers for his DJ

sets and then he would go out into like

the festivals or not in hill and put on

his own DJ set with his friends and so

yeah yeah like that all of this stuff

was going on like side by side while I

was a kid you know sounds like a like a

really a nice form of like creative

chaos

chaotic though

when did you start focusing on music

what age

it's just kind of like I've guessed in

school I had a band called Dynamics and

one of the guys that was in it um you

might not have his flow he's a sick

producer he's done little Sims out he's

done so many cool albums like most of

the stuff that everyone's loving right

now he's kind of had a hand in

um and um we had a band in school in

stock Newington yeah that would that

would Inspire that would inspire a lot

of stuff like um we were making our own

music we were like we're gonna be the

biggest band in the world we used to

argue all the time like we were like

like flipping Rolling Stones we thought

we were like like rock stars and in our

school we would give up flyers and make

our own Flyers um and like stick them up

around the school like come to our

concert and all this stuff so we were

just very very like brashy and like we

got this what age was this this was like

well started popping 14. so you leave

secondary school at like 16 years old

right yeah

at that point what's your orientation in

life if I'd asked you what what you're

going to be when you grow grow up what

would you have told me at 16 upon

leaving school everyone knew I was going

to be a musician Everyone by that point

literally like I remember leaving like

we had that in my classroom in school

they were like everyone wrote down who

do you think is going to be the most

successful who do you think is going to

be rich first who thinks this and they

were this like lab and like Tim Tim and

I was like I didn't even believe I was

like okay cool I I know I want to do

these things but like I was super mega

focused I used to get in mad trouble

just so I could go to the music room so

literally like my whole existence has

been like I want to write records I want

to write records and like that's all I

do

I was on a mission to write records

and that what age did that start because

I know when it it started to when you

got signed and when you released your

debut album and stuff but I'm trying to

understand how long you'll like Mastery

process was from the first time you

picked up an instrument or wrapped or

sang or wrote but it's weird because of

that my brother Josh

um amazing drama McNasty

bad boy drummer he taught me how to play

the bass taught me how to play the drums

and I would see him doing that so I'll

just copied my older brother but because

I have so many

then I'll go to Jamie's room and Jamie

would teach me how to use the MPC so I

would go to his studio and him and his

boys would be smoking drinking

um and like on a Madness and I I would

like he kind of took me under his wing

for a bit and I would like go around

with him to like in his world which was

very much more like it was much more

like hip-hop Urban so you've got this

full kind of kind of gritty like more

hip-hop like we were listening to Pete

Rock Wu-Tang all that [ __ ] and then my

other brother who was more music like a

bit more like like instrument drums uh

and I would be around his friends that

were musicians you know so we spoke to

someone on your team and they said that

we could put any instrument in front of

you and you'd play it

and this kind of like I now I kind of

understand where that came from yeah

yeah it's just like

everything's an instrument to me

honestly everything

like this table yep the sound of your

voice is a tone like uh like I I I can

just hear music all the time like it

doesn't stop

um and I might be I don't know might be

like I um I got like diagnosed with ADHD

because I thought I may have had it and

um so I went to go check and I was like

when I read about what it's like I was

like oh [ __ ]

um it makes sense why I'm so that's

literally this is all I do my life is

that I raise my children I make music

that's literally been my life you got

diagnosed with ADHD yeah

it's funny because I was sat here

recently yeah with uh with an expert on

the topic so it's very front of mind the

topic of ADHD yeah

um and one of the things he said was

that you know there's been this rise in

ADHD now yeah in in

did the world specifically in Western

countries I'm only saying specifically

because I know the stats where I think

it's 30 years ago

one in 20 kids had ADHD now it's one in

nine

um and his take on it was that ADHD is

an early response

basically when we were young and there

was stress in our in our households

the the child when the stressful event

learns how to basically turn off their

attention as a way to protect themselves

yeah like switch their attention away

from that thing so and they've looked at

all these studies and it really inspired

by them where they get 65 000 65 000

parents and the parents who have the

most stress in their lives end up having

kids with ADHD yeah makes sense and it's

just interesting so it's just front of

my thoughts you know so it goes back to

a childhood but yeah it sounds mad

stressful yeah it's not it's not far off

like in terms but yeah um it even

talking about sometimes sounds silly

because everyone thinks they have ADHD

um and everyone says it so I I was like

I I hate kind of

I know I hates a strong word but like

talking about ADHD I don't enjoy trying

to victimize myself with it

um and that's why I checked because I

was like I think it's disrespectful for

a person with

um something that affects their mental

health or something that affects them uh

their ability to to do what they want to

do or like to just live a life that is

supposed to be I don't know what is

normal but yeah you know

um and that prohibits them

um and I think it's disrespectful to be

like Oh I'm autistic I'm this um without

really like kind of knowing

um how is it prohibiting your life yeah

100 still does today what's the what's

this what's the symptom or what's the

can't finish [ __ ]

[Music]

um

forget like like literally it's like

blackouts it's like oh

um even in conversation sometimes when

people say something to me it would be

like I've taken the information it just

kind of dies away and I'm like [ __ ] I

can't even hold a conversation with

someone or

keeping up relationships remembering to

get back to people

um and that in business in terms of

networking and and I'm not talking about

networking from a

um using people like I'm not ladder

chasing but there is a part of it where

it's like yeah your your life's your

business is not going to change if you

don't respond and so like I would I

would work with artists and it would be

like lab you're so sick I love your [ __ ]

yeah please like can can you write my

album I'll be like yeah and then start

the record and they'll be like they

haven't heard from me where's lab why is

he he just he just clocks out you know

and it's like I'll just forget I'm doing

it and I'll get dragged into something

else I wonder if there's a relationship

between ADHD and uh creativity because

you know I hear a very similar thing

from pretty much all of the artists that

I've sat here with about

about and what you've what you've just

described there

going back to the this this uh all these

instruments you can play and all these

brothers and sisters that are playing a

different variety of um instrument and

learning different sort of art forms as

it relates to like creativity

um how important do you think it has

been for your creativity and the art

that you've created in your career to

have all of these I remember one one

person I spoke to talked about

creativity is being like all of these

different clouds in your mind and then

sometimes the clouds hit each other and

that's like a new idea yeah yeah but in

order to be creative you have to have as

many clouds as possible

I I feel that um

I think that's in learning like this

like

um being able to create Variety in your

ability to

um transmit

um

like an idea because I always look at I

don't I look at creativity as

um articulate in your soul

and that that's the true form for me

like because you can be creative but not

really tell the truth while you're being

creative like you're just like oh I I'm

making something that I think people

will like

um and that there's and you can still be

creative while doing that where it's

like okay cool here's something that I

know people are going to respond to I'm

going to get a reaction out of you and

then there's the other side where I

think

to me I believe is Arts where you're

transmitting and you're articulating the

sound or the frequency of your soul to a

person and I feel like every soul has a

song even even if it's not in music like

every soul

um has a uh a direction or a place it

wants to go and it has purpose and it's

like I I can and I I always ask artists

I'm like what'd you hear in you like not

what do you hear outside of you and oh

um what's it burning boys doing this and

that guy's doing this and if I mix these

together then it maybe makes me and it's

like no no

what's in you what do you hear like

right here like just internally and so

um for me I had to do that to to find

um what I wanted to say and and I'm

still finding that I'm still kind of

like um I I guess it's learning how to

like uh be unafraid

to be like totally naked because bearing

your soul is naked like it's like

it's like if I do this someone's gonna

be like this is [ __ ] and it's gonna hurt

if you're on the process of learning to

be unafraid was there a time that you

were taught to be afraid

um my whole life like everything I'm

still afraid now but but I can see it

and I think that makes a difference

um in terms of

um whoever I choose to be afraid but

before I had no choice I was just like I

don't even know what this is I just was

like I'm not enjoying this I wasn't

enjoying my career so I was like I'm not

enjoying why am I not enjoying this and

then I was like okay I'm not saying what

I want to say I'm not saying what what I

feel like saying or what I feel excited

about saying and I feel like my world is

being governed by

um accommodating my periphery like my

manager says if you do this this is

going to gain a reaction and it's kind

of like your inner child says oh I want

somebody to say he's cute I want someone

to say he's worthy and so you run

towards that energy like and and I

always always saying

um in the music industry it's like a

bunch of kids trying to get a pat on the

back that's what we're all doing and

it's like if you see in your a r or you

see it in your peers and everybody's

trying to get that pat on the back like

well done good boy and everybody wants

to get the good boy and so we're all

running after good boy but when you

finally realize that I don't give a [ __ ]

about your good boy I don't want it I

want I want a good boy from myself I

wanna I wanna be like you said it like

you actually said what was internally

going on and I

um does it matter what people

um uh say on the other side like and get

into that point where you're like

um

I am comfortable with what I will

receive after I've said what I said

um from my soul I think for me is like

true freedom is like okay cool I'm gonna

say what I need to say

that's a journey right yo that's just

scary man that's a journey so you start

you know you start out in your career

yeah you're trying to trying to get on

you're learning the ropes people are

telling you giving you advice you don't

know better so you follow the advice

Church boy in in the music industry

sometimes the advice pays off so you go

okay I'm gonna listen to you more yeah

yeah and then at some point that's the

worst part is when it pays off then you

go then yeah because you think it works

you're like well I I did everything I

didn't want to do but it worked so maybe

I should do more of this and then what

are you referring to a million just like

records or like what what part of your

career is this though

I think uh

okay so like with Simon Cowell and uh

when I signed to Simon Cowell I signed

to Simon Cowell because my manager at

the time was like

it's a bigger check

you're in a label that

um isn't gonna know uh is it isn't is

going to prioritize you because you're

not like anything on their label I was

like yeah great idea but I didn't think

about it for myself I allowed someone

else to tell me what my next direction

is because

um I did I don't think I had the

strength at the time to even think about

what I wanted for myself if you get me

same way I owned a restaurant

uh that was my manager I look was like

you should own a restaurant I was like

yeah they sold a restaurant and then I

was like I don't know [ __ ] about a

restaurant I've never cared about a

restaurant and and I only realized that

later but it kind of felt like you're

supposed to look like a mogul and you're

supposed to look important and you're

supposed to gather all these things that

that that start to create

um oh I'm hearing Keeping Up Appearances

that's what it is yeah what I was

hearing from that it's like because you

didn't

I was going to say because you didn't

know what you wanted someone else told

you what you wanted but it's more like

part of it sounded like you didn't have

the conviction to stand up for what you

wanted no you did that's what it is I I

didn't ask myself what I wanted I never

did because I was always accommodating

what everyone else wanted and I still do

it now sometimes but but I've learned to

to be aware of it is that because is

that in part because of like when we're

coming up we're a little bit desperate

just to get on that we just

we don't have the power yet to say like

I want to do it my way because we're

still trying we still need to check or

because we still think one thing I love

about the ADHD is

I don't think about money the same way

most people do so

like a lot of my peers in the music

industry they're building a business

because they can like they're they're

going okay this yeah we're gonna do this

and that's gonna come with that and they

carved this whole internal plan and I'm

like my plan is like if I can take a

sound out of heaven and put it on a

[ __ ] computer that is mad to me like

that that is like that literally lights

up my whole soul and I feel so excited

literally sometimes when I make a music

I cry because I'm like it hit me that

hard if you got me and so like that for

me is like it literally like I would

live for that that's enough for me but

then then around that like taking

Stardust from the clouds or from

wherever you want from the Universe

um this business comes around it and it

says we can turn this into money but you

have to do this with it and then you've

got a funnel it and you can you can only

do this in order to get that and you're

like oh [ __ ] okay cool be a star what

does the star look like oh

um be in a car with flipping tinted

windows having Entourage and going like

you're the [ __ ] okay cool cool I don't

really know how to do that I'm kind of

really a geek like because that's what I

was when I was 16 and then before you

know it you're like I don't know none of

this [ __ ] means anything to me and I

felt like I was being out that's the

time I think when you're talking about

this place where I don't believe I

belong I was in the music industry and

like I was around I remember like in

cycle they went who are you going out

with like when I was first signed it was

like Who you gonna go out with and I was

like what do you mean it was like oh

maybe sure Lloyd and I was like what I

was like what do you mean and then I'm

gonna send you to this party JLS are

there

um you just gotta like there's gonna be

photographers outside the building

um um be ready to be like thing because

we're trying to put you around this

facade so I was like oh [ __ ] this is

this is how it works and I guess and and

so being around found that that was

instantly like

I I thought studying music theory and

studying modes and scales was was your

like uh what made you worthy of being in

this industry if you got me um but it

became like no entertainment isn't Croft

entertainment is entertainment and

people will be entertained by anything

so play the game yeah and and so it was

like find your way like just try and try

and lie as long as you can when did you

feel when did you feel the symptoms of

that so I sit here I've seen it with a

lot of people who did did a very similar

thing and they say I spent a decade like

wearing the mask and like wearing the

outfit yeah and then at some point you

know I remember phone cotton saying like

she's driving to work and she just

starts having panic attacks yeah she

thinks [ __ ] this same I'm going to my

happy place and she launches this brand

called happy place where she gets to

control her and Destiny and be herself

she doesn't have to do the like oh yeah

I'm fine you know she can be the full

expression that's a hard one bro yeah

and it's funny yeah we all meet each

other yeah and and that's is what all

the same boy or girl waiting to get the

part on the back good boy good good girl

and then and then uh I feel like we meet

each other and we're all pretending that

we've we've got it together so I could

have seen fun and she's like I'm dying

inside right now but she has to be fun I

work together I'm like [ __ ] she's quite

so well together so I was like man I'm

I'm lying like they they could see it

like I'm a fake I'm a fake and

everyone's doing that but it's weird

like and then it turns you into this

person that's like getting kicks out of

lying better than the other like so you

go to an award ceremony and it's like we

sold 50 million or about I don't know

five million records this week how many

did you sell and it's like I'm I'm

valuable you stop yeah people believe in

my liar now I believe in it and it's

like uh like it starts to create this

thing in you where um if it becomes

successful like we were saying it's like

if it if it works and it pays off then

you're like oh I need to I need to like

I need to be this guy now I've got I've

got to believe in this guy and so yeah

it's so funny like when you're saying

we're fun I'm like I would have never

known I would have never known that that

stuff was going on because I feel like I

felt like she had it well together and I

was like I was having panic attacks what

were the symptoms then for you when did

you realize that something had to change

I was smashing guitars on stage

and I know rock stars do that I was a

church boy so it was that was big for me

um and I One show I was performing and I

was like I hate this but I was saying I

hate this but I wasn't saying it in my

mind I was like

uh I could feel it I was like why am I

I'm in this front of this crowd there's

not even an audience I wanted to be in

front of what am I doing they're loving

it but but I'm still just like what is

this and

um my band when I was talking about

accommodating my band's eating my um

brighter before I get into my room

because I was accommodating everyone to

the point where it was like like me

please like I'll do whatever I can to

make sure you're comfortable in my space

even if it means giving you all my space

so my band was eating out my radar my

some of the people on my um Team were

taking my uh like stuff from my um like

they would you know like Brands when

Brands give you stuff they would take it

and give it to their families nothing

was given to my family and my misses had

actually noticed this

um and I was like no no I was always

making excuses for for everyone that was

doing what they were doing how does that

come from in you that people pleasing

trying to trying to think it must be my

dad it might it must be like that my dad

because I think I've silenced my dad's

absence in me so it was just ah sperm

donor don't worry and I had to I had

this thing in my head where it's like I

don't need this guy but it's like

um I think uh him not being present is

like what do I need to be for you to be

here if you get me and I think

um

that happened and also I think the music

industry helped create some of that as

well where it was like because before

the music industry I was that guy I'm

from I do rag one I think I looked wonky

as hell bro it was I look back at some

of the pictures and I'm dying I'm like

who is this guy but but I was confident

enough to walk around London looking

like this like hodgeboge guy and super

cool yeah because I think the music

industry was like you need to be this

and I was like whoa how in order to be

accepted yes from a young age you'd like

that like

I guess at some stage you felt not

accepted by your father is that what

you're saying I think that's where that

came from yeah I think there's an

element of that yeah yeah I think that

church as well was there and where it

was like there was a way to behave there

was a way of being wrong there was a way

to be to to be loved if you behaved this

way this is what you get you know like

um God loves you yeah God God loves you

if you behave like this interesting and

that's not true really intrigued by the

idea of like how how we become people

Pleasers because and it typically even

from from speaking to Gabor who

literally wrote a book about this

um he says the same thing in those early

years when you know we were seeking the

acceptance or validation from a parent

and we're struggling to get it we have

that battle with them of trying to

trying to prove that we're good enough

so that becomes our adult tendency to

seek approval and seek trying to you

know fit into others expectations you

become an artist that becomes really

prevalent in your in your life in your

music to the point that you're on stage

performing music that it sounds like

yeah what is this

this yeah do you know what so many of us

so many if we if we Act

it inauthentically for a lot enough time

we build a life around that authenticity

build a friendship group around it we

build a in your case a fan base around

it and I dropped it I was like no

loudest and then the pain of keeping up

with that expectation and that

that Community built around you that

doesn't resonate with who you truly are

that's when the you know panic attacks

and the the psychology kicks in and

tries to save you but I think I've

spoken to a lot of ice but as well

everyone thinks that by doing you you're

still gonna achieve that same success

and that's the scary thing I think for a

lot of people where they're like I found

myself now I'm gonna make the album that

I own the piece of craft or work or

thing that that people um that that

means everything to me and it's like no

it's entertainment people don't give a

[ __ ] like you did it for you just do it

for you and it's like you have to know

that some people may resonate with the

true you or you might have to go and do

work and build a new audience and and

it's going to take the same amount of

time but people don't want that like

when they're like I'm gonna be me and

it's like yeah uh you've got 10 views on

this one yeah oh [ __ ]

there is some kind of Truth to the yeah

game that's the reality that's the

reality of it I had to learn that as

well it's like

um being you is for you and you have to

do it for you and you also have to

accept the consequences of of being you

um and even the consequences of the way

you do business as well like I I don't

wanna I don't want to talk all around

the world saying hello to every and

every person not really connecting with

the people I'm I'm meeting I'm just like

oh I'm famous just kiss my ass and I'm

gonna move over to the next country and

do the same like I don't want to do that

I don't it doesn't excite me and it

drains my energy it drains my Creative

Energy but if you don't tour

if you're getting a million for every

show well you're getting a I don't know

half a meal for every show you're like

whoa maybe I wouldn't say no to that do

I wanna do I wanna go do that and it's

like but then if I go the true me that

my Center says no

okay no I'm not gonna do that well then

don't cry by after and and a lot of us

do where it's like I made this decision

a lot of us can do that you know but

learning to like really accept your

choices and live and die by them

um Can can help you find fulfillment and

that to me is like money that's that's

that's like you have this gradual

feeling building from the sound of it

and then is that day on stage was that

the the turning point for you was that

yeah I threw a guitar in the air I

almost hit a camera woman why did you

throw it I was pissed I was I I was

backstage something happened my manager

was being weird our relationship was

breaking down

um and I I I had a dependency it was

intense I had no confidence I literally

I was at a place where I couldn't

actually talk to people because I was I

had um social anxiety and and so he was

super confident and outgoing and

um kind of like was like a someone to

lean on and that kind of went up to my

my early days in my career and so

um our relationship started to break

down and it felt like if I didn't have

him saying my music's good it wasn't

um and and I kind of looked for it to

him for that like like a father figure

yeah yeah yes exactly that like I I kind

of saw him as a father figure and we we

had a really close relationship and then

it just started to break down when money

started coming in and

um I felt that happening but I didn't

know what was going on internally I was

just like something's weird this is just

messed up and then I went on stage threw

this guitar in the air this cameraman

was there and I remember there was a fan

in the crowd because I'm a people

pleaser but also it pisses me off I was

watching the crowd and there was this

one guy and he was looking at me and he

was like it was just like he was just

saying [ __ ] like you look like an

idiot and I was like I believe you ah

then I just threw this guitar man and it

almost hit this woman and I didn't see

it and my tour manager came back stage

and he was like you know you almost

killed someone today and I was like wait

a minute

because some guy in the crowd was giving

you a funny look him and the thing that

all this stuff was going on stage I know

and then I was like what the [ __ ] am I

doing here like cool

and then I threw this guitar in the air

because I was just like [ __ ] this place

and then

it literally just was like

and and just nearly just skimmed her and

and I and when he said that I was like

whoa I was like the sun's going on I

need to deal with it did you have an

anger problem a man a mad angle problem

but that's ADHD as well but mad anger

for issues like like from primary school

I I don't I don't really haven't seen

that guy for a very long time but it's

crazy because it reminds me again of the

thing you know gabble was here like five

hours ago he's literally written a book

on this that's why all these topics are

so friend of mine yeah yeah and what he

was talking about is there's there's

such thing as healthy anger where

um which is actually a cure something

that allows us to heal because he says

that when we have like chaotic

upbringings and we you know have

abandonment from a parent etc etc we it

creates this kind of like internal anger

and resentment yeah but at the same time

it creates people pleasing yes and

suppression

so the anger becomes suppressed and it

looks like people pleasing on the

surface

yeah those layers yeah yeah and that's

what there was a lot of that where it's

like

um you can be passive aggressive and

it's I I feel like it sounds like a

contradiction to be a people pleaser but

then to have

the volcano can erupt yeah yeah I know I

know it sounds like but it makes sense

you're suppressing so much stuff and

you're not saying that and that's what

the big thing is in music I was also I

felt suppressed so it was like can I go

can I find can I stop suppressing that

as well because I was doing it musically

where I was in I was in this kind of Pop

realm and I was like no but I want them

to hear all the layers of me and I think

Euphoria was the like first time I felt

people actually heard what was going on

on my hard drive for real for real and

and then with it connecting I was like

oh it was like oh they get it like but

but I was like it took so long for me to

be able to try and share it and it took

for somebody else to go give me your

hard drive I'm gonna put this all in my

I'm gonna put all of this stuff in my

show and I want you to make new stuff in

my show for them for me to not suppress

it because I it was like I'm gonna do it

for you

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and check it out you mentioned panic

attacks yeah yeah something fun told me

about from her Lost Hair everything lost

her yeah like I had clumps of hair

falling out it was mad like it was like

I got to do it and my wife was a big

like part of supporting that because she

um yeah she just was like she could see

it all happening

um

and

funny enough I couldn't fight for her at

the time as well like um like she could

see it all happen and she was like this

is not the way business should be done

shouldn't be treated this way and and a

lot of the people that were around me uh

made her like the monster she became the

and she was one of the boundaries yes

that's right and so you know like um

have you ever seen spinal tap no no okay

but I I kind of I call it the spinal tap

moment where the Mrs becomes a manager

and she wasn't managing me she wasn't

even trying to she hates the music

industry but she wanted to be like I

want to protect this guy's sanity and

everyone else around me was like we've

got a gig flipping a hundred and

something Grand what do you mean like

why is why are you not going to do the

show and it's like yeah yeah no I know

you're feeling tired you're feeling

you're are you feeling a bit

emotional okay okay don't worry man

don't worry like look at what he's doing

he's doing all this work and uh

comparisons and all this stuff and so

there was a lot of manipulation and she

was seeing it and I think they kind of

didn't like

um that so she got she got intensely

like kind of um protective yeah yeah but

also then she became Lamar like the she

became the there was a Witch Hunt and it

kind of felt like it was directed at her

and I wasn't strong enough to support

her in that time if you get I mean like

I was I was still too you were taking

the wrong I was accommodating no I

wasn't even taking the sides it was just

no no it's it's because of this and okay

so you would just like okay I'm supposed

to have it together but I don't have it

together but like no I don't think they

meant that and and I didn't hear the

stuff that was going on but when I heard

what was going on I was like oh [ __ ]

this is crazy

um have you ever spoke to her about that

yeah yeah that's what built strength in

our relationship was that I said I said

to apologize to her and I I think a lot

of people don't notice how strong and

powerful women are beside people that

are in the public eye or like in the

music industry or entertainment industry

it's like some of them some of them are

like of course wonky or whatever but and

are there for the wrong reasons but the

ones that are there for the right

reasons sometimes get

um

they're kind of yeah they they don't get

treated very well if you get them

because it's like you're the guy you're

the person with the guy yeah yeah and

it's always that it's like you're the

person with a guy like um and so she

um she just was like mad supportive and

she introduced me to a shrink

um and got me like like a lot of support

like just to talk to someone and the

life coach because she worked around

psychology she was just really like um

she put me on to a lot of things that um

I wouldn't have had if she wasn't around

you know so it was like super important

to have her women in that that feminine

they call it like the feminine energy

yeah it's so

that particular feminine energy is so

lost upon men these days yeah we talked

about it earlier with this whole idea of

like be more of a man and yeah and don't

express your emotions and be a tough guy

and all this stuff but then you look at

the stats around mental health and

suicide and you see that it's just not

working for me yeah yeah over

masculinity is just not clearly not

working yeah women and including in my

life yeah have an ability to to open us

up to the other side yeah which is

unbelievably healing she's mad she's

just super smart and like um

I just think she was more aware she she

had like uh

she had this thought that was pretty

intense and so it woke her up to a lot

of things that I didn't I wasn't aware

of and so she kind of schooled me on a

lot of things that I think if she wasn't

around I would have lost it I would have

been like it would have been like

where's lab and then it would have been

like oh right he's on YouTube with like

no teeth shouting at the camera I don't

know like some you know how people go

like way left but yeah like I think if

she wasn't around I wouldn't be around

honestly when you look back on the art

that you created in that time in that

phase of your life the music the hits

pass out frisky that you know all of

that music you created

how do you feel about the music now

so if you walked in here and it was

playing how would you like how would you

think

um I laughed now I'm like oh that's

Vibes that's fun like it's kind of like

it's fun

um and sometimes I see the Brilliance

and I'm like like past that still hits

me and I'm like I can see the energy and

it was the moment where I kind of pulled

up my sleeves and I was like I'm not

doing this [ __ ] anymore I'm not gonna

fake it I'm gonna make something I wanna

hear and and then it paid off but I have

moments like that and then I get scared

again like it's like pass out yeah and

it and it takes me a lot to get there

where I'm like I'm gonna do something

good and it's like everyone's like Well

Done do more and I'm like I'm just

kidding like that can happen when I'll

get too shocked

um it's just dealing with yourself it's

being um being aware of yourself like

what I was saying to be conscious of

yourself

I'm aware of your behavior helps you

create peace in your life like and and

make choices in a moment that are gonna

um

support you in more ways than one if you

um more than just Financial yeah and

finance just becomes such a big thing in

this industry even status and finance

being a father Finance is like you run

you run for it because you're taught

that's the way a man's supposed to be

um why did you go to eventually you go

to La at what 24 years old or something

why did I go to La yeah was it 24 years

old you you yeah yeah you left the UK I

wanted to go to LA to get away from the

UK I'm not even just get away I think

that was going on internally like I was

like I need to do something different

um but this was after you released your

first album yeah and I was getting I was

taking it took me like ages to do a

second and I was like I don't know I was

just in my head about it and so I went

to LA to go and just just be somewhere

different try working with some other

writers and like maybe uh kind of get

new fresh energy you know I was getting

in my head about it yeah you're that

second album So You released the first

album on psycho I always call it the

difficult second album that's what they

call it second up because it's like you

had a moment and then it's like oh I've

got to do that again it's like and that

was on accident and it was always on

accident it's like nothing

um like you can paint anything by

numbers but you you can never even in

business you can't recreate exactly the

same thing unless it was supposed to

happen because the world's changed yeah

that's it yes so it's like yeah like

well even in this industry now like um

me and my team have been talking about

it but it's like we're in a whole new

world

most records are sold online like

heavily like Tick Tock like Tick Tock

that's it that's that's how you sell

records and so to come into that and go

how do I find myself amongst this

without losing

um my authenticity

um

uh what do you do like you know like and

and so then it kind of goes back to a

lot of the things that have happened

where it's like don't be that guy don't

don't be that guy and just like keep up

appearances

um Find Your Way find a way of saying it

in a way that means something to you you

know I'm really you said because I sat

with Louis Capaldi and he said to me I'm

[ __ ] it he's his second album's

coming out yeah he's like I'm [ __ ]

it and he told me about the

procrastination the doubt that first

album bang this one did a billion

streams he was like I'm [ __ ] it

because of the expectation I genuinely I

get it

yeah I can understand yeah but in any

business it's like that yeah it's like

we smashed it and

um

yeah let's do it again yeah it's like do

it again be another one of those when

artists and when people generally make

that move and they and they make they

make their way out to America yeah they

become like

a small fish in a big pond yeah in many

respects like people aren't stopping you

in the street like they are out here oh

that was sick just like I remember going

to the Grammys and I was like standing

next to John Legend and who else was

there there was a massive artists yeah

worldwide success massive records and I

came to stand in and my Publishers put

me in there and the cameraman just that

they were taking John John's down there

uh um what's the Chrissy Chrissy's dad

and then I came in and it was decided

they dropped my cameras and then the guy

was like this

you know when you're talking about

losing

um or not getting the reaction you

wanted it was the best reaction for me I

loved it it was like they don't even

give a [ __ ] I can I can go be that guy

again I can go be the guy

yes there was no expectation so I was in

this environment where there's no

expectation and then it was like now I

can make me now I can go and make who I

am and I was in an environment

on and when I'm talking racially the

reason why I'm talking racially is

because

I felt pulled by these two races in this

country sonically

and and then when I was over there there

was none there was none like lab you

need to be Hood go do another this lab

we need more pop music you need to be a

bit more a regional connect with the

radio more do more Simon Cowell music

um and it was that there was a pull

between me like and I felt like I don't

belong anywhere like because I like both

and I find I can see myself in both but

um there's always somebody that doesn't

like it and that's what um kept on

affecting me was that there's always

someone that doesn't like what I'm doing

and so I kind of became comfortable with

that feeling of being like yes someone's

not gonna like this like and and if

you're a people pleaser that's going to

make you procrastinate yeah yeah 100 but

then I'm like I kind of fell in love

with it in LA where it was just like

that guy doing that was just like I

don't know who this guy is don't care

and then I had to like work on my way up

but in a way that was more pure where it

was like I'm just gonna do what I love

and I was working with people over there

that just kind of like it shed it pulled

away all of the the kind of mess that

that kind of uh created this thing in my

head you know about creativity

and that's like kind of a process of

like reinvention right you're kind of

Reinventing yourself from from again

because the expectation is gone no not

Reinventing

um

realizing realizing because reinvention

is trying to get somewhere realizing

isn't actually going this is who I am

like peel away the onion like

what's underneath and it's like in that

for me that's that's the most important

thing in my career the most important

thing in my existence is to go what's

the rarest form of lab of my person of

my existence what's what's the Roars

form of me even without this body like

what's the soul what's what's my Center

saying what is that

um what do you mean like what is the

center who is lab it was the purest form

if I peel back all those layers on that

onion what is it the core of lab

it's a difficult question one that I'd

struggle to answer no I call it calling

your tears yeah yeah so sometimes

sometimes when I sing

I call this coil in your tears like it's

like I went ahead the [ __ ] scent of

you as well I give you the scent of me

and I want to hear the center of you and

even buy me nuts whatever the [ __ ] is

coming out it's like can I can I can I

speak to you beyond your like oh I have

this thing and I've got money and I

think well who's the guy and I'm like if

I can sing and do this to you and you

see you and you and and we both see uh

uh beyond our flesh beyond the things

that bind us on Earth

um that [ __ ] for me is like that's what

I want to see that's that's what I'm

always trying to get to not not what you

were taught when you were five not my

mask you know I mean not what was was

given to you or you were raised into

like it's like what's what does your

soul want what what is like what's your

soul song as well and so like when I'm

singing I'm like like

for me um

frequency has

is is a language as well like music of

course yeah like hair in a Melody you

can you can hear a feeling from it you

can hear something saying something to

you that's why we listen to music we're

like he speaks to me and I'm like uh

can I speak to you can I can I actually

truthfully speak to you beyond the

[ __ ] and usually frequency

is

one of us like most powerful languages

like literally everything is by by by

vibration like uh

everything on Earth is vibrating that's

that's how like and and that that's how

we can identify a lot of things you can

feel energy if you get me so for me I'm

like

get into the core of that is like the

most exciting thing for me every time I

go into the studio I want to be there

but I'm fighting

uh to

to get away from

needing to police like and and that's

that clouds my mission

all the time

still today yeah 100

Vada

but but it's not as loud as it used to

be

you got music coming out soon yeah what

was what's the process been like making

this this new body of fun yeah it was

fun it was fast

um

I I worked with a band my band LSD me

and Sia and Diplo have a band

and in that in working with CR I kind of

learned how to let go a bit and um when

I went to go wrap my album

after the long album The Long number two

um I just kind of was like yeah let's

just do just do something just do it let

it go don't think about it I did think I

did end up thinking about it like a

little later on because I've had the

album for a while but um

um it was I just was like I enjoy these

Melodies I enjoy what I'm doing I'm

gonna leave it there and I'm

uh alongside Euphoria I was like

um it kind of a lot of these things were

teaching me to do that like come out of

that the pleasing and just go what are

you hearing write what you hear from

this guy and that's it and just leave it

there so that's what I do with this

record as well how much is this record a

reflection of how you're feeling and

where you are in your mind and your

psychology how much of that is reflected

through the music and what you've

created

I believe that this record is one of the

steps towards

um

me being naked like I'm I don't think

I'm as naked as I want to be yet but but

um I I believe that it's getting me

there and like even with this album was

dedicated to my misses

um a lot of the songs on the album were

dedicated to my misses because like I

was talking about where she stood up for

me and supported me

uh through the music through like my

experiences

um uh I kind of wanted to I turned our

relationship in the music industry into

a

um

like two lovers uh Bonnie and Clyde

riding through the the cosmos so so

literally it's like uh Natural Born

Killers in space that's what the whole

album was and that was my like um uh

inspiration for the record is that it's

all love songs but um all of the love

songs are

me taking photos of moments with my with

my wife and things we've been through

together

um and so I didn't even write

I didn't write in it like way where it

was like I'm gonna say oh a couple of

weeks ago on Saturday when this happened

no it's not that it's more it's more

it's more like um Loosely based on on on

like those moments and every song has

like it's me uh

um amplifying like uh like little

moments that me and my wife have had

where'd you get where where sort of

physically do you does MO does your

inspiration show up everything is a song

bro

like everything in here in the streets

in the gym this is a song this is a song

I wait for you this bottle's sitting

here and if you imagine that everything

on Earth is alive this bottle was made

just to sit head to wait to be poured

into my my cup so that's a song I wait

for you I wait for at your Beckham call

whenever you need me and it's like I'm

I'm turning this bottle into a person

and I'm like oh

um

um

don't you know how long I've needed to

be wanted or don't you know I have my

own things or things I want for myself

if you get me so every every like little

thing like um can be like like turned

into or dramatized into a song you know

like

does amazing I'll wait for you

and I'll nutritionally completely

I'll complete you you know like I'm I'm

it's like I'm I'll be your servant it's

like I'm I'm but like when is my moment

like or you can just find things in it

like there's just one thing sitting

there and like start to uh peel the

onion of okay what would it feel like if

I just had to sit there like I was

created and I just had to sit there to

replenish somebody's Health like have

you always thought like that because

that's quite an abstract way to think

like the the metaphor or the symbolism

of what that bottle is doing that a lot

of people would say oh that's a you know

a drink

yeah

um yeah that's everything bro and have

you cultivated yourself to think in such

a way over time where you've lent into

that or is that something that you've

just always had as a no that's that's it

that's it for me like with everything is

like

because I guess um like you're saying

with growing up

um you're going how do people

see the world and you try to see the

world through other people's eyes

especially with when you grow up with

like even traumas or like an intense

home you learn to kind of observe a lot

and so like in observation you go into

like

um storytelling bro like it's like

layers and layers of Storytelling like

um yeah so I just see every every song

even sounds for me have colors sounds

for me have pictures

um so I always have an idea usually what

scares the idea away is people pleasing

honestly like I know I I know what my

idea is but it's like learning how to in

a business

um especially that we go from writing in

our bedrooms to becoming CEOs of

companies without knowing it

um you have to learn how to run your

business and

turn like get your business to

articulate what you want to say without

being frightened of judgment I'm lab

that just got signed to Psycho okay

day one of psycho I get to meet you here

now and I get to come and ask you for

advice I'm I'm you on that day that you

sign with psycho what advice do you give

me

to live your life

whatever it's supposed to be and I don't

I won't take back anything that's

happened honestly like because

um I believe that um everything happens

to build you and I wouldn't have learned

the things I've learned in order to

become who I am today so all my

challenges are turning me into where I'm

supposed to be so do you think if you

told me do you think if you'd given me

advice so I'm you you know when you sign

that deal with psycho do you think if

you'd given me the advice I would have

listened no uh no no no I wouldn't have

listened to me I would have been like

I'll be like yeah man people love my

music let's go like because you just

don't know in it you don't know what

you're going to experience

um yes I would I would I would say go

and experience what you need to

experience because like you're gonna

head

to your

to your North in whatever way you can

and some people don't ever find their

North because they don't learn to go

okay

um let me take a look at myself you know

like I think that's the my dad did that

the way he just he wasn't able to be

vulnerable enough to go okay maybe this

or maybe like could I change this or

actually I'm not happy here you know

um

um and so I feel like if you can do that

in your life

um I don't think anything's wrong with

it I think

um you you'll be able to find your North

like by by being able to observe

yourself

what are your goals now

I imagine to make the cosmic Opera

okay bro it's mad no tell me that's your

God I want to hear it oh yeah yeah I do

I want to make an opera you want to make

an opera yeah yeah I want to write an

opera can hear the sounds it can hear

how it looks feels

um

and

um

yeah just I wanna

I wanna like make

um

like uh I want to do things with choirs

that nobody's done I can hear all these

things that I'm like nobody's done this

I'm gonna go do it like literally I'm

there do you know we did this podcast

live with a live Gospel Choir taught up

in another country oh really yeah yeah

and it's this mixture between like the

visual so the video would come in and it

would like crackle from people on this

podcast yeah and then you'd have me with

spoken words and then the choir would

come in and like say the message in

music if that makes sense yeah yeah so I

might be talking about the struggle I

had with like um that the one's

self-doubt and then the other young

ambitious kid that knew he wanted to be

a millionaire yeah because he was

insecure whatever yeah and on one hand

you've got wait till I get my money and

you've got Gnarls Barkley I think you're

crazy and it was that kind of like that

perfect like music and stuff yeah bro

you're doing it man that's exactly all

of it yeah but it is for me you get

afraid now

afraid of I'm just saying oh yeah do you

feel do do you feel maybe used to your

fears no so like stepping out on stage

at the London Palladium yeah we opened

up at the London Palladium and stepping

out on stage at London Palladium never

having done this before in front of

people and knowing that they'd bought

tickets without having any idea what

they brought tickets to they're

expecting a live podcast so they're

expecting this on stage okay and then

there's quite and you know there was a

moment of that where you've just got to

be at peace with the uncertainty okay

yeah and all the great things come from