Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

>> The Joe Rogan Experience.

>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY

NIGHT. All day,

>> gentlemen. Great to see. Yeah. Put them

on. Slap them on. What's happening? Good

to see you gentlemen again.

>> Taking off with him.

>> One more time.

>> Yeah. One more time.

>> Yeah.

>> So, uh, what is the latest? Give me the

latest. Where are we at?

>> Why don't you take it, Brian? You just

kind of

>> You are the uh you're the most current

on where we are, what's going on. Man,

there has been a lot of stuff happen in

the 15 months since we were here. I

mean, like stunning amount of stuff. So,

let's not waste any time. Tell them

where we're at.

>> All right. Well, the last time we came

to visit with you, I believe, was on

December the 27th of 2024.

We were just on the front end of having

organized 30 committed Texans whose own

families had had experiences related to

trauma, addiction, alcoholism, and the

wounds of war. who after hearing a plan

that was developed for the state of

Kentucky to bring Ivagane to the

American people as an FDA approved

medication and breakthrough treatment

for addiction and trauma committed

themselves to using their time, their

talent, and their network to achieve

what had never been done before. and

that was to convince an individual state

to undertake drug development to create

a therapeutic medical breakthrough for

public health crises within its borders

that are representative of the national

reality. After you released the

interview with us on January 2nd, 2025,

we pursued a five and a half month

blistering campaign to convince

188 blank slate Texas legislators to

fund the single largest psychedelic

research and medical development project

in history. That being the $50 million

Texas Ivagate initiative. We had the

assistance of some in-state allies, one

of which was Texans for Greater Mental

Health, led by a dear friend and brother

of mine, Logan Davidson, who was my

right hand, going to meet with

legislators continuously while I set up

shop at a hotel here in Holl and lived

here just about part-time, wearing the

shoe leather off, sweating, and making

sure that everybody who needed to be

introduced, educated, and motivated to

get behind this would do so. At the end

of this five and a half months, we

secured the votes of yes of 181 out of

188 legislators between the Texas House

of Representatives and state senate.

There was one individual who we had to

persuade at the 11th hour to get behind

this project. On May the 14th, 2025,

just 36 hours before the Texas budget

was finalized, this bill that would

create the first unified FDA drug

development trial with Ibec in US

history was not funded. I woke up that

morning and I'm not some I believe very

much in keeping your prayers in the

closet as Jesus taught and not getting

out there parading about it. But on that

morning, uh, I got a call and it was,

"Hey, we're getting to the 11th hour. We

don't have money to secure this. It may

not make it. We've done everything that

we can." And I just, I literally got

down on my hands and knees and said,

"God,

please let this happen. And if it cannot

happen, help me understand why." Three

hours later, I got a telephone call

asking if I could go and meet with the

Texas House Speaker and Lieutenant

Governor Dan Patrick. I went at 4:30 in

the afternoon on May the 14th and spent

an hour with these two gentlemen going

back and forth about what this project

was, why it was so existentially

necessary for Texas in the country. And

on Friday morning, May the 16th at 10:00

a.m., we got a text message from

Lieutenant Governor Patrick confirming

that he would approve and fully fund the

Texas Initiative. As we walk in here

today, literally just 10 minutes before

we walked into your studio,

I can confirm that the great state of

Texas is going to fully fund the Texas

Ayagan Initiative. originally intended

to be a public private partnership but

now has decided on its own to commit a

full $100 million to launch the

development of Ibeane all the way

through the FDA's drug development

process for the benefit of the American

people to do so on its own without any

drug development partner and to do it

for the good of humanity.

>> That's phenomenal. So, what did you have

to say to Dan Patrick to convince him of

this? And kudos to him for doing this.

>> Well, uh, I had some very wonderful

advocates who preceded my meeting.

>> Was he skeptical?

>> Oh, he was, uh, completely disengaged

from the process. Highly skeptical as we

learned through intermediaries. But we

had two wonderful brothers on mission

who happened to be twins, Marcus and

Morgan Latril.

>> I know Marcus very well. Marcus and

Morgan Latrell reached out to the

lieutenant governor. They spoke to him

very movingly and personally about their

own experiences with Ibegan, what it had

done not just to save their lives, but

what it was doing to save the lives of

war fighters who had come to the end of

being able to live. And as they

explained to him what it did for them

and what it has done for their brothers

and sisters at arms who've returned to

war to broken government systems that

can do nothing

to cure what else them at their core. He

was persuaded to have an open-minded

conversation. And through that

conversation on May the 14th, we

essentially went through what science

suggests are the powers of the most

sophisticated molecule on the planet to

resolve physiological substance

dependence and thereby create psychology

within the human being whereby they

believe they have ownership of

theirelves and their future and that

that future will be one defined by

choice rather than compulsion. And the

most powerful aspect of the Iagain

argument, not just for the lieutenant

governor and house speaker, but for most

of these legislators who voted yes, is

the experience endorsed by many that I

gain confirms without question the

reality of our individual human

divinity. And that is the greatest truth

conveyed by this fabulous plant.

>> I well put and I don't think it's just

Ibegan that confirms that. I think you

could say the same about many other

psychedelic drugs that are unjustly

maligned and treated as if they're an

escape from reality. Uh but in the

interest of this being a standalone

podcast for people who don't know what I

is and don't understand the efficacy of

it and how unbelievably effective it is

at especially treating addiction. Could

you please just go over that?

>> Yes sir. So iagane is an alkaloid that

is derived from the ibogga shrub. The

iboggish shrub is uh originates in the

central Congo basin. Its native country

is modern-day Gabon. It is the mother

country of the iboggish rub which has

been used for centuries in the spiritual

and cultural traditions of the buidi uh

a group of spiritualists who uh include

the pygmies as well as the bontau tribes

that lived there in Gabon. In the early

60s it was discovered that Iane and Igga

had a significant interruption effect on

opioid addiction. There was an

individual who had uh been addicted to

heroin for a number of years. They took

Ibane and not only did they not

experience any withdrawal when they

stopped taking heroin, they stopped

having any desire to use any drug

whatsoever. This touched off 60 years of

open label field studies that are

mountains high and decades wide that

firmly established that Ibagain has a

unique and singular interruption

capacity on physiological substance

dependency whether that's opioids,

alcohol, methamphetamine, cocaine or

tobacco. Recent evidence also suggests

that it has a significant interruption

effect on compulsive behaviors. Anything

that kind of impacts that brain's

dopamine system and produces a rush,

>> particularly gambling.

>> Yes, sir. Now, in 2018, US special

forces, special operators started going

to Mexico for treatment of symptoms of

traumatic brain injury uh expressed

through treatment resistant depression,

anxiety, and suicidality. Uh many of

these veterans had gone through the VA

system. Uh they had been given an

unbelievable amount of synthetic

pharmarmacology that in their end effect

essentially uh anesthetizes the soul and

slowly euthanizes the body. And they

were at the end. So as they were going

to Mexico and would get I gain

treatment, they came back with these

just unbelievably

uh

just powerful recovery results that seem

too good to be true. So there were some

scientists at Stanford University that

were funded by a philanthropist who

wanted to understand what was going on.

And so what we have come to learn

through a Stanford research study on

traumatic brain injury for vets is that

I gain

remarkable neuro regenerative capacities

on the brain that are unheard of in the

annals of western science. And while

information is still very small in

amount and preliminary

uh there are individuals who have had I

gain treatment for not just traumatic

brain injury but for multiple scerosis

Lyme disease Parkinson's disease

postsurgical complications related to

the removal of brain tumor who endorse

uh a restoration of functionality and an

ability to live that are otherworldly.

And as we recognize that the

opportunities to improve the human

condition at scale are multi- lifetime

and appearing, uh we believe that we

have found one of those. And if we're

going to do justice to the human

species, it is incumbent upon us to take

what appears to be a promising

therapeutic improvement and deliver it

with speed through the US medical

systems. And that's what Governor Perry

and I have founded Americans for Ibegan

to do. just that achieve the moonshot of

our time and that is to bring Ibegan

medicine to the American people as

quickly as possible.

>> Well said and thank you again uh

Governor Perry because if it wasn't for

your involvement in this I think a lot

of people would be far more skeptical.

you know, you being a former

distinguished governor of the state who

was a Republican, generally speaking,

most people think of Republicans as

being anti- psychedelics and that this

whole thing is just a bunch of people

trying to escape reality and poison

their mind and, you know, tune out of

society and become losers. That's that's

the general consensus of people that are

just,

for lack of a better term, ignorant of

the effects of these substances. they

don't understand it. But if if it wasn't

for you, your open-mindedness, your your

willing to your willingness to engage in

this and try to understand it and to

speak to these veterans, I don't think

people would be taken into seriously.

>> Yeah.

>> So, thank you.

>> Well, and and thank you. uh as I've uh I

watched you over the last 15 months um

seemed like every 6 weeks or so you'd

have a guest on here and you'd be

talking about Ibeane in particular and

what uh is is the the progress that

we're making.

>> What comes up so often.

>> Yeah. Well, and it should it it should

because this truly I mean this is not

what I came into the world for. This is

not what I came to politics for. This is

what you know I got led to this through

that relationship with Marcus and in

turn Morgan Latrell and seeing those two

boys literally particularly Marcus on

the doorstep of committing suicide uh

when he came to live with us at the

governor's mansion in 2007. We had met

the year before just by the grace of God

and I told him I said if you're ever

through Austin come by and see me

knowing that the chances of that would

be pretty slim. Um he knocked on that uh

guard door in May of '07 and said the

governor said if I was ever through here

come by and see him. They called. I let

him in for dinner. And my wife who's a

nurse, she recognized this young man who

was really troubled. Uh addicted to

opioids,

masking it with alcohol, really sick.

And for the next two and a half years,

he lived with us at the governor's

residence.

>> Wow. And that started this long journey

uh literally with u him and trying to

find ways to heal him. We sent him to a

host of different places. Carrick Brain

Center in Dallas. We sent him to uh

what's called now Axios uh athletes

performance in those days, but a a great

rehab facility down in the panhandle of

of Florida. uh and and they helped him

uh conquer or let ha helped him manage

the opioid addiction. I will suggest to

you until he was treated with Ibagane

which did clean that completely away

from him uh some years later. But the

point is

he really struggled and he has become

like our son. As a matter of fact, I

talked to him this morning and he said,

'Be sure and tell Joe howdy for me. He

he just thinks the world of you as well.

Uh I talked to his brother the day

before. They understand how powerful

this compound is from the standpoint of

treating post-traumatic stress, uh

traumatic brain injury, addictions. Um,

I mean this and and as I became

convinced

one of my the things that I will will uh

will say that I've been I've been open

to change just like criminal justice

reform in the early 2000s. I was kind of

like lock their ass up, throw the key

under the jail. You know, you break the

law in the state of Texas, here's how we

treat you.

And I had a

district judge in Fort Worth, John

Cruso, a Democrat district judge who I

knew and had been friends with. Um he

said, "Governor, we got a program here

that allows these individuals who have

broken the law. You know, they've maybe,

you know, got caught with an illegal

substance or what have you. And rather

than sending them to jail, sending them

to the penitentiary where they become

professional criminals,

we give them a second chance. We put

them in a rehab program. We put them in

a treatment center. We put them in a

boot camp. You know, give give them

these options rather than sending them

to prison where they're going to become

professional criminals and the

recidivism rate is going to continue on.

you know, I'm kind of like, nope, I'm

I'm tough on crime. That's what us

Republicans do. But it really got me

thinking. I mean, I'm I am curious

minded about

concepts and ideas. So that brought me

to having conversations and you know

long story short

that single conversation led to

Texas leading the nation with criminal

justice reform.

Texas Public Policy Foundation that uh

now Secretary of Agriculture Brooke

Rollins was operating in the the mid to

uh to lateh 2000s. They came on board,

saw this, supported it. We passed it

through a very Republican, very

conservative legislature, and Texas led

the nation in criminal justice reform.

Saved us billions of dollars. We stopped

building prisons. We stopped sending

people to prison where they were

becoming professional criminals.

>> So that

template, if you will, was what we took

to Donald Trump in 2018.

And

he was just like me initially. I'm tough

on crime. I'm

But he was open. He was curious. Brooke

Rollins, interestingly, had come up and

was his uh uh domestic policy adviser at

that time and she made the pitch and he

was open. And that conversation led to

him being open to federal criminal

justice reform. And today there are

people who I mean, you know, you may

have different ideas about President

Trump and what have you. I know that's

the case. But on this issue of criminal

justice reform, this man was curious. He

was open-minded and he's made a real

difference in people's lives following

the Texas model. The reason I share that

with you as a example, that's where I

was on these compounds, these drugs,

these psychedelics.

I mean, I grew up in the 60s, Timothy

Olri, using LSD, marijuana, any of that

kind of stuff. I mean, it was anthma to

me. Absolutely and totally. I don't want

to have anything to do with it. This is

crazy stuff. you get in trouble, they'll

throw you in jail, you'll jump off of

buildings. I mean, you

>> every story that you can imagine that

people and then think about from the 60s

forward, how, you know, I went into the

Air Force, they, you know, we we took

drug tests at least monthly. Um, so the

idea of of of being involved with a drug

was just totally and absolutely not on

my radar screen. These these are bad

things. And we're reinforced in the 80s

with Mrs. Reagan. Just say no to drugs.

Here's your brain on drugs. I mean, we

have been browbeat as a society for 60

years. And when you add to it what Nixon

did, President Nixon did in the late

60s, early 70s with his uh war on drugs.

He hated hippies. He hated blacks. And

one of the ways you could go after them

was to go make these compounds schedule

one, which he did. Schedule one says

there is no medical purpose for it and

it is highly addictive.

Ibagine fits neither of those. Ibagane

is not an addictive compound by any

sense of the imagination.

>> It's also absolutely not a recreational

compound

>> at all.

>> It's not something that someone do at a

party.

>> We are proving without a doubt to the

Texas legislature, to legislators across

this country in Mississippi, in

Tennessee and Arizona, West Virginia,

that it does have a medical purpose.

that there are some extraordinary things

that can happen for their citizens who

have PTSD, who have sexual trauma, who

have uh addictions. I mean, saving lives

by the thousands, hundreds of thousands,

I will suggest to you when this is

approved across the country and we see

it as a a relatively

um easily studied and accessed by

medical care uh compound. So

that story of seeing

these two young men

who have given everything literally up

to willing to give their lives and a lot

of their friends did for our freedoms

and our liberties in this country and

for us to say to them oh sorry you can't

have access to this because you know

they're you know President Nixon said

this was bad stuff back 60 years ago and

it was taken off the shelf as a schedule

one drug put over here and for 60 years

Americans have suffered through so many

different

eras

when the Sackler family

>> and Purdue Pharma comes along and we

literally I I think one of the most

demonic things I've seen in my public

life is this family who used Oxycodin

and sold it to America as this be all to

end all and then our federal government

in the in the mid 2000s. We didn't know

how to deal with these young men who

would be put in these horrible

conditions and positions

of being at war

time after time after time, rotation

after rotation, tempos that we had never

seen before in the history of mankind.

I'll suggest to you, I mean, Joe, we

were at war for 20 years. 20 years

during that period of time. there

there's, you know, special operators

that were deployed eight, nine, 10 times

and then they come home and the governor

gives them a sack of of opioids and and

that makes them feel crappy and they

mask it with alcohol and we sit around

and go,

"Why did why did Bobby kill himself?"

Well, the cause because the government

failed in its great responsibility to

take care of these young men and women

in my opinion.

So we owe it to them.

As a matter of fact, a dear friend of

mine who just passed away within the

last two days.

He had worked with me for

gosh 30 years. And when he first saw

that uh

I was getting involved with this

psychedelic drug, this

Ibagane compound

and we were having a conversation. He

said, "You need to be really careful

with that. You know, you've got a great

reputation. You spent 40 years building

that reputation up." He said, "You don't

want to throw it away on some cockami

idea here."

And I told him, I said, 'Well, I don't

think I'm doing that. I've studied this

pretty intently. I've talked to a host

of different people. Um,

and I said, "So, I'm I'm comfortable

about the science here that I'm that I'm

seeing and what have you, and I think I

think it's worth um going forward with."

But I said, 'Ray,

their lives are not worth more than my

reputation. And that's u that's what

kind of continues to drive me. There are

people that still kind of say, "Why are

you doing this?" Because I believe in

it. I mean, I believe it to the point,

Joe, that I'm willing to risk my

reputation.

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>> I don't think you're risking your

reputation at all. I think that's

>> foolish thinking.

>> I think it's people that don't

understand the times.

>> Yeah.

>> This is a different world. We're we're

living in a We're living in a world of

information now. And you can't go by

these false narratives that were adopted

in the 1970s.

>> And we're winning. I mean, I'm I'm

telling you what Americans for Ibegan

has done. And you know, we started out I

tell people, I said, you talk about a

small group of people. I think there

were six of us. He's the CEO. I'm the

chairman. We got Dr. Ruland uh who's the

the secretary uh and Claire Stapleton

the communications person and then

Marcus and Melanie Latrell Marcus's wife

are the other two members of our little

board. And we were this small little

group kind of going along and doing what

we were doing. We were successful in in

the Texas legislature and what have you.

But it's exploded now. Uh we have

ambassadors uh Americans for Ibegan

ambassadors all over uh the the United

States. Now this people have seen what

we've been able to do in in Texas.

Mississippi followed suit. They've sent

their their governor a piece of

legislation. I want you to talk about

that.

>> We're going to do the roll call here in

a minute.

>> Yeah. And and just and and share with

with Joe and his audience just the great

uh progress that's being made. Um and

and and quite frankly we've out I think

about Michael Dell when he was selling

computers out of the trunk of his car

back in the late 80s and and and then

his college dormatory. AFI kind of found

itself like that um just a few months

ago and I'm not trying to say that you

know we're Dell computer today but we

are growing at such a leaps and bounds

and and you know and having the

resources that we need to be able to put

our people in various places I mean he's

the travels all you were in Cabo I want

you to tell them about the the group

that you met with Cabo and I mean just

200 of these extraordinary people down

there he travels all over of the country

and you know and we have to have the

resources to uh to to be able to to do

that and and uh um you know so I hope

you're the folks that are listening are

you know go to Americans for Ibagain and

you know how to tell them how to do that

and and help this organization because

this is what I'm going to do the rest of

my life. I'm 76 years old and uh this is

what I I hope the Lord gives me a lot of

years to make a difference because I

know for a fact that what we're doing

today, what you're helping us with is

making a difference. And if we can get

these clinical trials to the conclusion

and you know, thank you to the

lieutenant governor and to the speaker

for what they committed to today. I

mean, uh, to to know that we're going to

be able to go forward now with these

clinical trials to show the world

exactly what we know, but but so that

the the naysayers out there, the

skeptic, can look at that and go, you

know what,

you can get 85% of the people who are

who are hooked on opioids clean in 72

hours.

>> Isn't that amazing?

>> That's such a stunning thing to me. Dr.

Gull Dolan. We were at South by

Southwest um week and a half ago. She

was sitting on the stage. She's an MD

PhD. Was at John's Hopkins. She's over

at uh um Cal Berkeley now. And she gave

a little primer, if you will, on the

different psychedelics. there's a

critical period that the mind opens up

and you're able to uh to go in and and

uh and if if you will the medicine

treats the mind I think from my Aggie

you know non pharmaceutical non

scientific mind here but to go in and

repair reset the brain

the technical word is neuroplasticity

but

ketamine

has a critical period

I think she said 48 to 72 hours.

Psilocybin has a critical period from

14 to 28 days.

I'm I think I'm pretty close on these.

But I gain the critical period the time

when that neuroplasticity is active and

the brain can be trained uh healed reset

is from 90 to 120 days

and then with the addiction opioids

which I happen to think is one of the

most addictive substances that's out

there. I mean this is some horrible

stuff. You know I you know you this very

current event with Tiger Woods and

Tiger's accident and you know he had

Oxycottton in his uh I'm you know I'm

not judging here but I'm just kind of

saying

>> that may when I when I was ran for

president in 2011. I'd had major back

surgery in July. I announced that I was

running for president in August. I had

six weeks to try to get over that major

back surgery and I had a a terrible uh

condition called um a neurological

hyperusion in my right leg. I've never

had a pain like that. Felt like a

blowtorrch going down my right leg. And

they gave me Oxycottton. Uh and I was

taking that to cover up the pain. I was

taking ambient to go to sleep at night.

And I was taking some stuff called

Provigil to get back up in the morning

and be focused.

I laugh about it now. Um, I'm I'm

surprised I did as well as I did in that

presidential uh effort in 2011. Hell,

forgetting that one thing, that third

thing in that debate, I hell, I'm I'm

surprised I could remember any of them.

Knowing what I know now about Oxycottton

and the incredibly

nasty addictive nature that it has. I

mean, this stuff is just poison.

And

I began

in

48 to 72 hours after one dose,

one oral application of this compound

and that addiction is gone.

Not only is that addiction gone, Joe,

but Stanford has done

functional MRIs on an addicted

opioid brain

and then treatment with Ibagane. And

they have shown that brain from the the

addicted look that those experts, those

uh poss

to a normal brain, a normal brain scan

in 72 hours. If you were to go through

the normal process of healing yourself

of opioid addiction through an

abstinence program, it would take you 18

months. And there are very few, I'm

going to say singledigit people that are

successful in in being able to do that.

But think about that. We got a compound

here that has the ability to heal people

of opioid addiction

in 48 to 72 hours.

And and and

we're not doing everything that we can

in our power to make that available. I

mean, what the hell's wrong with us? How

bad you got to hate people to not make

that available?

>> And with two doses, it's even more

spectacular. 98%.

>> That is amazing.

>> 98%.

>> That That is truly amazing. There's

nothing even remotely like it with

standard practice addiction therapy.

>> Nothing.

>> Nothing.

>> You know, he mentioned the Americans for

Ivagane. We have ambassadors. And Joe,

what you really helped us do on January

2nd of 25 was create a movement. Our

organization is the custodian of that

movement. We are a public policy and

advocacy organization and Governor Perry

mentions keeping me on the road.

Wherever there are state leaders,

citizens of conviction and influence,

whether that is California, whether it's

Massachusetts, or whether it's Alabama,

we exist to plant the seed of a

scientific understanding, of a public

policy framework, and of a spiritual

understanding of the significance of

what we have in our hands here. an

opportunity to improve the human

condition at scale. And while we have

talked tightly about uh Ibagane's impact

on substance dependency and upon the

wounds of war, our ambassadors reflect

essentially the universal human

condition and the way in which

individuals who have tried every way to

overcome various forms of trauma and

dabbility find as the last step a

redemptive restoration through ibagane

treatment. It is not for everybody. It

should not be a first resort. It is an

exceptionally powerful medication that

comes with a series of side effects that

are highly unpleasant. As you previously

mentioned, uh, one of the selling

points, ironically, in the Texas

legislature was to say, you know, if

your idea of a good time is being in a

state of semiparalysis for 12 to 16

hours and throwing up continuously

through the process, you're going to

have a real good time. And if there is

the equivalent of being brought to the

judgment throne of God on this side of

life, it is an Ibegan experience. uh

that seemed to motivate a lot of support

especially for those who subscribe to

puritanical notions of punishment for

wrongdoing. That's not what I'm here to

advocate but certainly uh it is not fun.

Uh but what we know is that for instance

we have two fashion model twins uh whose

father sexually abused them for a

decade.

And the results of that horrific

experience that they shared produced all

kinds of of of psychological maladies

that included an eating disorder for

one, persistent neurosis in the other.

They tried every form of talk therapy.

They tried every psychotherapy modality

known to try to overcome that. And it

was Ibegan that restored their lives and

their capacity to enjoy the life that

God has given them. We have first

responders who are emerging in numbers.

One who is a firefighter from Oklahoma

who was demoted because of decades of

alcoholism. His life has been restored

by Iagain and he's back working

full-time. We have a gentleman who was a

Charlottesville police officer who was

hit in the face with a brick during the

riots that occurred in Charlottesville.

His life was restored by a single Ibegan

treatment and he has attained a level of

functionality that he didn't think was

possible nor his doctors. We have a uh a

gentleman who was a pilot who

unfortunately did a bomb and run on a on

a village and and killed a number of

innocent people. He learned about this

and this sent him into a spiral as many

war fighters who are exposed to moral

injury do. Ivagane has restored this

gentleman's life. We have a gentleman by

the name of Robert Gallery, a former NFL

player who exhibited all the signs of

CTE in his postretirement years. He was

ready to kill himself so that he

wouldn't harm his own family. It was

Ibagane that restored his life. There

have been other NFL players who are as

yet unnamed, some incidentally uh that

have been in the paper who have gone for

Ibagane treatment to address similar

symptoms. players in the NHL, players in

uh other contact sports that include

soccer and rugby and the United Kingdom

where there is an emerging cohort of

professional athletes who have reached

out to us to say we want the United

Kingdom for Iba.

>> I would love to get you guys connected

with the UFC.

>> We would love to be connected to the UFC

>> because that is obviously an issue with

professional fighters. So, Hughes, Matt

Hughes, um, and and Matt had I met Matt

through Marcus, um, gosh, in like 2008

or so, and we went out for a fight and

then subsequently

um, Matt had a I think a car accident of

which he really had

>> hit by a train.

>> Yeah. Just an incredible uh, traumatic

uh, brain injury. And uh I I I I just

want to I want to have that conversation

with him. And I'm I'm sure you have

great relationships with those. We know

for a fact that cumulative

um impacts on the brain are what lead to

CTE. I mean that's I'm

I I don't think that's even a question

of here's how it happens. These multiple

concussions have cumulative effect on

the brain and at some point in time that

um CTE

has a longtime effect and this medicine

has the ability

to remove that trauma to reset that

brain to heal that brain. I don't know

how it works, Joe, but that's the reason

these clinical trials are going to be so

important as we're going forward. And I

and I'm I can't tell you I'm ecstatic

that the the the lieutenant governor and

the speaker today announced

their their full Texas support behind

these clinical trials.

>> We're fixing to become the epicenter

>> for a movement that literally can change

the world. And I know that sounds kind

of a little bit over the top,

but if we have within our grasp here a

compound that can heal our loved ones

who have an addiction, uh be it a

substance addiction or be it a

non-substance addiction. If we have the

ability to heal people who have been

traumatically impacted by concussions,

if we have the ability to address PTSD

and all the different forms that it

comes, I mean, the hope that that can

give to the society that we live in, and

I'm not talking about just the United

States. You think about what's going on

in Israel, in Ukraine, in the Middle

East today, and the trauma that people

are facing. Uh I mean, this truly can be

an extraordinary gift to the world. And

I, you know, I listen, I think it's

really interesting. you ask uh a leading

question about

how did I come to this position of being

able to be supportive as I am. and

and and when I think about my my growing

up and I grew up in a very conservative

Christian family

and and I think one of the challenges we

still have in um in our society is that

the the the

Christian the conservative Christian

faith is like stay away from that stuff.

I mean that's that's bad. Do not in

under any circumstances don't be going

there. It's demonic.

And

there's a book that's about to be

published I think is it about I think

the first week in April. So we're

approaching it. There's an author by the

name of Wendy Reese. Res.

And Wendy with an I. Wendes.

and she uh not unlike the the two twins

um was sexually assaulted by her own

father who's a pastor of a church.

>> Joe, I I'm telling you, brother, I can't

I can't dream up in my worst nightmare a

more evil thing than a father that would

sexually assault their

>> a preacher father,

>> their daughter.

and she dealt with it with Ibagane and

has come to the conclusion that her

great gift to give to the world out

there is to write this book called A

Christian's Guide to Psychedelics. Now,

if you think that won't catch some

people's attention when they're going

through the bookstore and they go, "A

Christian's Guide to Psychedelic? Holy

mackerel."

But this is a book about her experience,

but it's also a book that I would

suggest that every believing Christian

go pick it up and read it because it

talks about chapter and verse and and

gives you scripture about where God

talks about these compounds about these

things that he's given the world. He

means them for good. All of them for

good. Are you aware of the um scholars

in Israel that are proposing that Moses

seeing the burning bush was the acacia

tree?

>> Yeah, the there's an acacia tree. The

acacia tree which is very common in the

Middle East is rich in

dimethylryptoamine.

And they believe that what they're

trying to relay in this story was that

Moses encountered God through the

burning of this bush. So the burning of

this bush releasing the psychedelic

compound dimethylrypamine

allowed Moses to bring back the ten

commandments.

>> You know u thank you for mentioning

that. I have been following scholarship

around the use and the recognition that

there's a lot of psychedelic allegory in

holy scripture that I think is the

favorite where that burn and bush

reveals the great I am and when Moses

says who are you? I am who I am. And the

beauty about Ibagane and the other plant

medicines are their capacity to reveal

the I am that was within is within each

of us. And that I am as our eternal

creator who absolutely has engineered

and placed these plants on this earth so

that we can be affirmed in what our true

identity and ultimate destiny is. And

praise God for it.

And then there's also the sacred

mushroom in the cross, the John Marco

Allegro book where he where he was one

of the ordained ministers that was his

task was to decode the Dead Sea Scrolls

and he wrote this book that details what

he believes is the use of psychedelic

drugs in ancient Christianity.

>> Hard for me to argue with. I mean, I I

just think our modern perception of it,

which is very tainted by what happened

during the Nixon administration, where

they were trying to squash the hippie

movement, the anti-war movement, and the

civil rights movement, and that's why

they demonized these drugs, these

compounds, and that's why they put them

in this category of having no medicinal

use, which is clearly not accurate. It

doesn't mean that they should just be

given to everyone and everyone should do

them with no restrictions and no

regulations. It just means we should

understand that they have a long history

of human use and have spectacular

results and all sorts of things that our

society is suffering from greatly. And

to just pretend that that's not the case

based on what happened in the 1970s is

just insane. It doesn't make any sense.

>> I would suggest that one of the greatest

lessons learned by Americans who are

aged 50 and younger, those of us who I

call the bicesentennial children, is

that the most morally depraved criminal

in America today, is power. And the

power of the human hand when it is

wielded in its most abusive context will

always seek to deny any access to

individual human divinity and the

liberty and autonomy that is conferred

upon each of us as children of God. And

in so far as we find ourselves at the

precipice of what I believe is the

emergence of a broad-based spiritual

movement where all of us modernists

within the empiricism of modern American

society are able to see through the fog

of all of our wealth and gadgetry and

recognize

we are in the midst of profound

spiritual famine in the United States.

You I know and forgive me for

referencing age. Remember back in the

mid80s

where we saw all these horrific images

of starvation and dissension, distension

and fly covered death from mass famine

in Ethiopia and Sudan where millions of

people starve to death because the

malevolence of power forbade the

delivery of any relief sent by the

outside world.

When we look at what's right in front of

us in the United States today, there is

no denying that we are in the midst of a

terrible spiritual famine.

And the malevolence of American power is

feasting on our starvation. This is an

emancipation movement for the mind,

body, and soul of every human being in

this country and across the globe who is

lethally extranged from their own

spirituality.

The Abigain mission is a mission to

fment dramatic bra medical breakthroughs

across a host of conditions that have no

effective therapeutic answers. But above

and beyond that, it is about the

affirmation of the spiritual essence of

life that can unify us as a species in a

way that is necessary if we're going to

navigate these changes over the next 20

years. Governor Perry mentioned this

wonderful invitation that I received to

go to uh what was called the Earth One

Summit. Now,

Joe, I come out of Hillbelly Holler,

Virginia, and I it's a I do I re I I

introduce him from time to time. I said,

"Look, this guy, he's he's he looks like

and he sounds like a hillbilly from uh

Eastern Kentucky in the Appalachian

Mountains." And I said, "He is." But I

said, "He's one of the most brilliant

people I've ever met in my life." and

one of the most extraordinary orators

I've ever had in my life. So anyway, I

wanted to I I I love you, brother, but

you are a hillbilly.

>> Well, I I'm much more comfortable with

that than all that other stuff you said.

But you know, when you come out of

Scratch Nothing, sometimes there are

certain sophistications that you lack

and and I'm no exception to that. So

there was this earth one summit. It was

200 thought leaders from across the

world who came to basically discuss the

future. And I was very honored to have

received an invitation to come and uh

attend the gathering to speak about what

Governor Perry and I are working on

through Americans for Ibagane. And they

presented me with the honor of being the

closing keynote speaker for the

gathering. And as I listened over the

course of four days, I heard individuals

who included

uh Kimbell and Cristiana Musk and I've

read interviews by uh Elon Musk speaking

about the advent of AI and the capacity

of AI to solve the central dilemma that

we as humans have had since we emerged

from the caves and that's the dilemma of

scarcity. So, as I was there listening

to folks speak about being on the edge

of a time when we can automate the means

of production and essentially create an

unlimited amount of abundance for every

person on this planet.

I couldn't help but think about where we

are right now as compared to where these

individuals see us being in 20 years.

You cannot create and deploy

this kind of godlike technology which

has the capacity to produce unlimited

abundance potentially usher in the age

of Aquarius

and drop it in to these Frankenstein

monstrosity government systems that we

currently have that are enthroned upon

the helplessness of powerless people

that perpetuate problems that they are

supposed to solve and that monetize

sustained human misery. So long as

government makes its buck over keeping

its foot on the necks of the American

people, we are looking at a future that

much more resembles Mad Max than we are

Star Trek. And if we are going to create

the degree of social cohesion that is

necessary to hold these systems

accountable and to create a system that

can truly usher in that age of unlimited

abundance to improve the human condition

for all. It begins with a spiritual

reawakening that I began first and

foremost and the rest of the

psychedelics concede and fment within

American society. To that end and then

I'll be quiet for the next little bit.

>> Good man. We love we love we love

listening to you. There is a six-part

docue series that will come out next

year called psychedelics and and it is

uh a series of interviews with a

cross-section of leaders across the

United States uh where they speak about

their own quest for meaning uh and and

how psychedelics has helped them

understand that we are more than just

these material beings that get up and go

to work every day and are a productive

economic unit, go home and compete. That

there is a much higher sense of purpose

that we are here to serve and that the

plants themselves have the capacity to

enlighten us at scale in a way that's

absolutely necessary if we're going to

make that age of abundance happen as

those uh visionaries uh articulate and

and dream for. What I think is

fascinating about the age that we're

living in is that uh change comes very

slowly, but it comes much faster when

you have the kind of access to

information that people have today. And

I don't think this conversation was

possible 20 years ago.

>> No. No way.

>> And that's kind of amazing.

>> No way.

>> It's kind of amazing. And I don't think

that there was a format for this

conversation 20 years ago. This format

has occurred because of the age of

information, because of the internet,

and because there's no gatekeepers

anymore, and because people have the

choice to decide what they want to

consume, what they want to listen to.

And to be able to be a part of that to

me is an incredible privilege. and to be

able to have you guys on and to have

this conversation and to recognize that

the reason why this is possible is

because

>> with for a lack of a better term, the

world's waking up.

>> Yes, sir.

>> It's just taking more time than we would

like.

>> Yeah.

>> But the world is waking up and change

happens. It just happens. People have to

change their opinions and that's very

difficult because a lot of people

identify with their opinions. They their

opinions become a part of their ideology

and it's just very difficult to get

people to change their ideology. They

they identify with this. It is them. And

I've always tried to tell people the way

I try to approach things. You are not

your ideas. Yeah.

>> You are not your opinions. These are

just thoughts and if you identify with

them, you are trapped in them and you

you will be held hostage by them. You

will try to defend them even if they

don't make sense. You will try to ignore

evidence that points you in a direction

that's contrary to what your current

belief system is. Don't be your

opinions. Don't be your ideas. Just sit

in them. Be consistent. Be honest. Have

ethics and morals that you adhere to.

But the ideas are just ideas. And if

you're wrong, you should be proud to say

you're wrong. It's a it's a a sign of

growth. It's a sign of intelligence. And

it it's a sign of you being an honest

human being who cares about the truth,

not about being right. Because there's

too many people in this world that they

don't really have conversations. They

have ideological sparring matches where

they're just involved in these little

intellectual tugs of war where they're

just trying to be right and this is not

the time for that. this it's just so my

my going from hard no on criminal

justice reform to a literally a leader

on criminal justice reform in the mid

2000s

my going from hard no on uh any

psychedelic drugs that could be used in

any way uh to now being what I've

humorously

refer refer to as the Johnny Apples Seed

of Ibagane. Um, is to your point, you

know, be

be open, be willing to say you were

wrong. Uh, I know my wife would like to

hear me do that more often, but hey, I I

I if you don't mind, I want to take a

minute and talk about how

far this movement has come. And um Brian

talked about Americans for Ibegan and

our ambassadors all across the country

and the growth that that we've seen in

this. And I want to give you one example

of to your point of that five years ago

uh if you'd have had an institution uh

that had its own reputation dealing with

brain health and brain science and those

kind of things uh they would have just

kind of moved you off to the side and

said, you know, no thanks. But the

center for brain health in Dallas, this

is an extraordinary

institution uh that's connected to the

University of Texas Dallas. Matter of

fact, it's just next door to UT

Southwestern, which is one of the great

medical facilities in the world, UT

Southwestern, and Dr. U. Sandy Chapman

heads up uh the Center for Brain Health.

Uh and they've they've done some some

some great work. We went up and

presented to her. I don't know, probably

60 to 90 days ago. And and uh there was

another uh organization called um

Forward

>> Forward Intent.

>> Forward Intent. Forward Intent. Uh just

a beautiful young uh man and his wife uh

Alex Duran and and his wife uh who have

funded an effort and what they're what

they're doing with their resources.

They're sending

I think 250 individuals down to Mexico

uh to both I think a facility uh called

Transcend and to Ambio. Uh and Ambio is

the is that facility that I've been to,

Brian's been to uh Marcus and and and

Morgan Lrrell have been to I think you

know probably 2,000 more fighters been

down to Ambio now. Uh vets underwrites

them. Um, and just as an aside, this has

blown up so big, and I'm talking about

the the Ibagane effort, the education of

Ibagane. People, you know, there's some

hope out there and and people are

rushing to find where they can go to,

you know, to treat the addiction that

their loved one has or deal with their

PTSD and what have you. And and Ambio,

uh, is just covered up. uh and I'm sure

you know the other facilities uh are as

well down there. The the the

organization vets which is really where

I came into this u I think Amber and

Marcus Capone um they don't have they

don't have any openings anymore. I mean

they are completely covered up u and and

but I mean that's a good challenge. I'm

glad we have that challenge. But my

point is, you've got a an institution in

Dallas, Texas that just like the state

is getting the signal, it's okay to be

out there talking about this. It's okay

to to be a leader. It's okay to get out

there and and and lead the charge. And I

want to read to you uh what uh Dr.

Chapman um because I asked her, I said,

"Do you mind if I talk about what you

all are doing?" And she said,

"Absolutely." and she said, "Governor,

great to talk with you yesterday. Here

are some comments to guide you in how to

discuss our existing collaboration. Um,

I'm excited to announce that we have

begun a partnership with the Center for

Brain Health, the University of Texas at

Dallas, Americans for Ibegan, and

forward intent to create the largest

research study of Ibeane to date focused

on understanding its impact on the brain

among the veteran community. Dr.

Francesca Philby, an expert in cognitive

and translational neuroscience,

especially the use of neuroiming to

study brain behavior relationships, will

lead the research. Our mission together

is to move beyond the question of does

Ibagane help and instead answer the more

practical questions veterans and

clinicians need. Number one, who

benefits and why? How long do the

benefits last? Which aspects of daily

life functioning, i.e. cognition, sleep,

substance use, and overall well-being,

improve or worsen following treatment?

And how are these changes associated

with brain uh alterations? The

three-year study will follow those

treated with ibagane over the course of

18 months, which will allow us to create

the first understanding of the sustained

impacts of ibagane on the brain across

various treatment regimes.

We'll be diving more into this topic on

November the 19th at the Center for

Brain Health's Brain Health Presents

speaker series to share more by bringing

worldclass scientific rigor to this

space. We aren't just studying a

substance. We're creating a foundation

of knowledge that will expand safe

informed access for those who need it

most.

That

is what Americans for Ibeain is really

all about. Making that type of

penetration, having that type of

success, seeing what Brian and and the

the other folks have created here in the

state of Texas. I'm going to tell you

something, brother. There is nothing

that I've been involved with

in my life that gives me more pleasure

than to see what we're doing and knowing

that there's a father out there,

a mother out there

whose child's going to be saved.

You mentioned dogma.

People are in particular in American

society. There is a quest for identity.

There is a quest for belonging. So much

of what we see on social media and in

broadcast media that is rage and anger

and disaection is tremendous loneliness

and a tremendous lack of of of belonging

to something. uh and a tremendous amount

of trauma related to having never having

had anything that resembles

unconditional affection within the

context of a safe and and stable

familiar relationship. That's at scale

within the United States. Uh and the

degree to which dogma can thwart

evolution is 100% right on. And I just

use my own self as an example.

I was a child of Reagan's America. I can

remember I was about five years old when

he and President Carter had their first

presidential debate in 1980. President

Reagan was like the mother goose to the

goelin. He just imprinted on me. And

whereas other young boys had pictures of

Joe Montana and Michael Jordan and

Michael Jackson all over their rooms,

mine was wallpapered with Ronald Reagan.

I was the president of the teenage

Republicans in high school. I wrote him

fan letters all the time. He actually

replied to one and I put it in a a frame

in my room. It was written on my

birthday. I was president of the college

Republicans at George Mason University.

And I mean I aim to be the king of

conservative Republican conformity. That

was my whole mission in life. And I used

to joke that uh when people said, "Well,

how did you get to this?" you know, and

what do you think about the fact that

you're talking about it and you're so

zealous in your advocacy? I would kind

of make a half statement and say, well,

if 25 year old me could come and see

50-year-old me, he would look and say,

"What in the world happened to you?" And

I would kind of yuck and yuck and laugh

about it. Well, here's the answer.

If 25year-old me could come back and

look at 50-year-old me and say, "What

happened to you?"

50-year-old me would look right back and

say, "You happened to me. You happened

to me."

Your youthful sense of certainty, your

belief that you had it all figured out,

your belief that you had no further

greater evolution to achieve, sir, you

in your insolence of youth, you happened

to me.

One of the things that I have so enjoyed

learning about Governor Perry and as he

and I have built relationship. The first

time I really started following him was

when he ran for president in 2012. And I

believe that had he not had that back

surgery, we'd have we would not have had

a second Obama term. He would have won

that race and I think he would have won

it handedly.

It's been remarkable to listen to this

gentleman who has been so firmly

identified with the conservative wing of

the Republican party be so willing to be

curious and to have that human value of

curiosity and a willingness to hear and

a willingness to know and a willingness

to entertain that perhaps everything

that he had been taught about this

particular subject was not correct.

Curiosity is a prime human value. And if

you allow dogma to shut off your

curiosity, you have hobbled yourself.

And I think it was Muhammad Ali who

said, if if if a 50-year-old man thinks

the exact same way as a 20 year old man

as he did when he was 20, he's wasted 30

years of his life. And that is that is

dead on right.

>> Dead on right. Yeah, I could attest to

that.

>> Uh curiosity is my number one attribute.

That's the thing that's led me in life

in everything I've ever done is just

being open-minded and curious. I'm very

fortunate is that I didn't think I had

things figured out when I was 20 at all.

I was sure that I was a

I was good at one thing, kicking people.

That's it. And and then uh from then I

realized that there's a lot to learn and

that as much as I learned about martial

arts, I could apply that sort of

open-minded discipline because you you

have to be open-minded to be good at

martial arts because you have to be able

to listen. You can't think you already

know. You cannot you won't you won't

grow and you won't get better. You you

have to be listening to coaches. You

have to be listening to instructors. You

have to be listening to your teammates.

You have to listen to everybody. If you

don't listen, if you have ah don't tell

me those people don't go anywhere. And I

learned that very early on. It's very

fortunate that I found that path because

I've applied that to virtually

everything that I've ever done in life

instead of having this belief that I

have things figured I mean, I've I've

certainly like been more sure than I

should have been at many times in my

life, but always willing to stop and go,

maybe I'm wrong. And

if it wasn't for this podcast, it would

have never gotten to where it is because

I've fortunately been able to talk to

brilliant people. And you know, I grew

up in um I lived in uh

California for 26 years. Before that, I

you know, I lived in Boston and New

York. I I thought of people that the

southern accent in particular, right?

Then this is a a standard thing that a

lot of people on the coasts have. You

hear people talk with a southern accent,

you think they're dumb. And it's a it's

a terrible

stereotype that actually came out

because of hookworm parasites. I'm sure

you're aware of that story.

>> And I'm not. Educate me.

>> The stereotype of the lazy, dull-minded

Southerner came out of the fact that a

large percentage of people in the South

had contracted hookworms from walking

around barefoot. And hookworm parasites

will rob you of your intellectual

capacity. They greatly diminish your

ability to think and exhaust you. You

get slower and you know in quotes

lazier, but you're really just infected

with a parasite. And it's an ex an

enormous percentage of the population in

the 1900s where we're infected with

hookworm and in the south in particular

>> hot climates and this is where this the

stereotype came from. When someone like

you speaks with such insane recall like

your recall is bananas like your recall

of dates and names and times and I have

a pretty good recall. It's nothing like

yours. you. It's extraordinary. And I

love when I meet someone who's brilliant

who still has a southern accent because

it's it's like, I said,

>> yeah, forget all the stereotypes. Let

them all go, baby. Cuz they're not real.

It's not real. None of that is real.

Individuals vary wildly. And you know,

I've met brilliant people from um

coastal cities and I've met

morons that talk like, you know, a

person that you would assume would be a

highly educated, intelligent person, but

they're close-minded and and foolish in

their ways. And uh having had this

ability to have all these different

conversations with different people,

it's just like every time I have another

conversation just expands my

understanding just a little more and a

little more and a little more and a

little and I love it and it's all out of

curiosity and I'm I'm very happy that

I've been able to make that curiosity

infectious.

>> My favorite cities and I know we're

getting off the beaten path here a

little bit.

>> I love to get off the beaten path. It's

my favorite thing to do. My my favorite

cities in America are those that you can

go to and not feel like you're in the

country. Miami is fabulous.

>> It's a wild place. You should have a

passport to go to Miami.

>> It is fabulous. And um I remember the

first time I went to New York City one

time when I was about 5 years old. Only

thing I could remember was the Empire

State Building and some dude with purple

hair sticking his tongue out at me. The

next time was in 2019 and uh I'd always

had kind of that stereotypical

Southerners attitude. A bunch of, you

know, haldy, rude, stuck up, mean acting

Yankee people, uh living in an obnoxious

local that would just be hell on earth

to have to endure. So I had the

opportunity to go and spend a day there

and uh rolled into Grand Central Station

on uh the railway from uh I think it was

New Haven, Connecticut. And just to

watch the dimensions of the architecture

as we rolled into the city, I the

expansion of scale of this place.

>> How old be it?

>> Uh well, let's see. I was about to turn

uh 44. I think I could hear the Beverly

Hillbillies music playing in my head

when I was going down through there. So,

we get off of Grand Central Station and

I mean, I walked all through that. I

walked from Grand Central Station all

the way down to the tip of uh where the

World Trade Center was. It was New York

City is a monumental human

accomplishment when you can have the

entire world within 300 square miles.

And it is a a living affirmation of

everything the United States is supposed

to be as the last best hope of humankind

on earth. just to be in that place.

Anytime I've gone back since, I mean,

the minute that I uh go to get the Uber

at LaGuardia Airport and I see that

skyline, I mean, my heart just starts

racing, racing, racing. I would have

never thought that I would just fall in

love with New York City, but it is

fabulous. San Francisco is the same way.

uh just there are so many wonderful

places in the United States where you

wouldn't think that somebody necessarily

who sounded like me would would would

endorse. But one of the best things that

I have done is stopped watching

television news. The last time I watched

television news was after the first

Obama press conference in January of

2009 and I cut it off.

>> Wow. Aside from presidential debates and

election returns, I've never turned it

back on. The number I shouldn't tell

this. The number the number of times

I've left my front door wide open, the

garage door open in my neighborhood and

nothing has happened is remarkable.

This country in terms of her people is

as much like it was back in 1950 as it

has ever been.

The complexion is a little different.

We've got a lot more diversity now than

we've ever had. But once you take that

blinder of mass media mayhem and all

this fabricated division that is

purposefully put out there to keep us

divided

>> to keep us tuning in,

>> tuning in and and segregated.

>> Yeah.

Once you take yourself out of it and you

just start having a conversation, next

time someone gets into an Uber with

someone who doesn't have English as a

sacred language, strike up a

conversation. Ask them, "How did you

come to the United States? What brought

you here?" and your heart is going to

fill with just the unbelievable amount

of pride and love to hear those accents

from the Middle East and from Africa

speak about this country in ways that

take us right back to 1776. It's a

fabulous place and I'm able to say so

much of this

>> because of what the plans have helped

clarify by way of that universal human

divinity that we all share that this

country is the cradle to protect and to

honor which is what makes this mission

so incredibly important. And I do want

to Oh, I'm sorry.

>> No, go ahead. Please.

>> There's two people that I left off of

our ambassador program that I think are

really showstoppers. I want to mention

one is a gentleman by the name of Rear

Admiral Jim Hancock. This gentleman

received I began treatment for his

wounds of war. He was the Navy medical

corps chief and was the medical officer

for the United States Marine Corps. One

of our other ambassadors is a gentleman

by the name of General Glenn Curtis. He

served in both Gulf Wars. He served in

Afghanistan. His most recent stint of

service was as the commanding general

for the Louisiana National Guard and he

is one of our prime spokespeople for

legislation that's pending in Louisiana

right now to join Texas as a partner in

this game trial. So

>> that's fantastic.

>> Yeah.

>> Please tell what you were going to cuz

I'm curious.

>> I don't even remember.

>> Hey, well I remember what I wanted to

talk about. So and and I want to get us

back on uh the the track that we were

talking about. Um, you know, Brian's

done a great job to discuss the uh the

spiritual aspect of the medicine and and

what I mean, that's incredibly

important. Don't don't get me wrong on

that at all. And and um

but what brought me personally to the

medicine? obviously my relationship with

Marcus and Morgan and what have you. And

then as I studied it, I'm like, if

you're really going to be a legitimate

spokesperson for this, if you're going

to um, you know, put your reputation out

there, you need to be treated. You need

to go through the treatment.

And I'm going to get to you at the end

of this conversation, but I want to set

this up if I may. And in 2023, if my

memory serves me correct, this is the

same time that Nolan Williams was

heading up the uh 30 veteran study that

Stanford was going to oversee. Kind of

the early days, if you will, of of some

clinical trial type uh effort to have

the data, to have the background, some

early day uh efforts to start educating

the public about that is how I I do

this. They had 30 vets. I think they

were between the ages of like 22 and 42.

Uh they all had moderate uh to severe

PTSD.

Uh they were um mo some of them addicted

to alcohol. Uh they, you know, they were

pretty classic

veteran population that had some real

challenges. Um

they were sent

well to to Stanford and they did

baseline functional MRIs

and then they were sent down to Ambio uh

just south of Tijana where they were

given the the treatment. Um and then

that last I think about a 4-day

treatment protocol. You go down,

you work your way in.

Tuesday, you get in preparation.

Tuesday evening, you get the compound.

Wednesday is a recovery day. Thursday,

there's a 5M DMT treatment. And then you

go home.

They went back to Stanford

after

5 days after the treatment and had

followup MRIs. I think they did an MRI

at 30 days and then a functional MRI at

six months.

So that there was a you know good good

piece of of data there to look at. Just

stunningly good results. Um

and uh the the results I think there was

87%

of them who six month now better than

two years later uh but that have zero

PTSD

uh the addictions were at that level of

reduction that we talked about in the

high 80 percentiles. I mean just we've

seen all of this data before. This is

nothing new. But the reason I share that

with you is that

I basically went down and followed the

same protocol.

I wasn't part of the clinical trial but

and I only wanted to be treated with

Ibgainane. I did not want to take the

5me DMT. So what I was looking at and I

was interested in this from the brain

regenerative side of it. I had about as

buolic a life as you've ever had. I

never had anybody mistreat me to of of

anything that you could even get close

to calling traumatic uh effect. I had no

trauma in my life. I grew up on a

dryland cotton farm, you know, 60 miles

from Abalene, Texas, 16 miles from

closest place that had a post office in

a part of Texas that just a lovely,

wonderful, loving place. My mom and dad

loved me and I knew it. and you know my

scout master and my principal and my

superintendent of my Sunday school class

who by the way were all the same person

and he drove the bus and was a football

coach but I I had a as

non-traumatic

growing up period as you can imagine.

So,

I was concussed,

severely concussed three times, twice in

athletic events, and I'm talking about

knocked out completely for over one

minute.

And those are severe concussions.

Two times athletic events, one time

unloading horses, knocked completely

out. So, what I know now is that as I

got to pilot training and I started

noticing that I was having trouble

sleeping and that this

thing that I understood later in life

was anxiety had crept into my life. So,

I had I'm going to put it in the mild

category, anxiety

and um

and uh insomnia.

I went into a very odd line of work in

politics to have those two kind of

things to

and and and I I masked them rather well.

Uh most people didn't know I had that.

My wife did, but other than that, even

my, you know, senior staff in my my

offices through the year, agriculture

commissioner, lieutenant governor,

governor, they did not know that I had

this challenge of, you know, maybe

sleeping three and a half, four hours a

night. um being

anxious at times to the point of being

never dysfunctional. Uh

from my pers my perspective, but

probably some people out there in the

political world said, "Hell Perry, you

were dysfunctional the whole damn time.

What are you talking about?" Anyway,

beside the point,

I had the treatment.

I had the

I had the brain scan going in. I had the

brain scan a week later and I had the

brain scan at six months.

The

first brain scan

they said, "Look, your brain looks

pretty good for a 73 year old guy." He

said, "You know, you're you're actually

in in pretty good shape. You don't have

a lot of atrophy. You got some mild

atrophy,

uh, but your brain looks pretty good."

The week after scan

showed a 27%

increase in the preffrontal cortex of my

brain. That's where your focus, your

concentration, your emotions reside. Had

a 27%

increase in that preffrontal cortex

activity.

my

six-month scan.

I have a dear friend who's a

neurosurgeon from Tyler,

Dr. Charlie Gordon, who is a 40 plus

year

neurosurgeon,

spine expert, looked at lots of brain

scans,

a respectful skeptic of this. When I

told him I was going to be treated with

this compound called Ibagane, this

psychoactive compound, he was recoiled a

little bit. He was like, "You need to be

really careful with that.

He has now gone from being respectful

skeptic to looking at the data from the

clinical trial that was done at

Stanford, talking to a fairly good

number of the veterans that went through

that trial, talking to Dr. Williams

talking to other specialists at the uh

at Stanford and he has gone from

respectful

skeptic to a fullon

believer in this medicine. I mean an

absolute

supporter that this medicine does what

it says it does. It heals people of of

of uh addictions. It heals from PTSD.

This medicine does what it does. And we

were driving back from the airport that

day after the six-month scan. He had

looked at it as it came off of the

machine.

And he said, "Governor,

I'm not going to blow smoke up your

dress.

Your atrophy is gone."

He said, "I have no idea why this has

happened, but he said the difference

between your

initial baseline scan and 6 months

later,

clearly

the atrophy in your brain is gone." He

said, "Your brain looks like a 40 year

old."

Now, the reason I share that story with

you is because number one, that's partly

what drives me about this is that there

is a regenerative aspect of this

medicine that we don't really understand

yet.

And if it does what we think it's going

to do, and that's the reason these

clinical trials are just so stunningly

important. That's the reason what uh uh

the center for brain health and what

they're going to be doing and the data

that they're going to be collecting. I'm

convinced of what this data is going to

show. But for all of those individuals

out there who don't have substance abuse

problems, who weren't traumatized as a

child, but who have been concussed, and

we know that that damage is is out there

and that this that the cumulative side,

Robert Gallery, that great uh

professional football player who had

really bad CTE and he will tell you

today this medicine saved his life.