Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

>> The Joe Rogan Experience.

>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY

NIGHT. All day.

>> We're up.

>> Hey Joe.

>> Great to see you again, Bob.

>> Same here. Long time.

>> Luigi.

>> Joe.

>> Um, you are still to this day the most

watched ever podcast we have ever done.

That's on YouTube.

>> That's That's just unreal. It's unreal.

It is unreal because it it shows you how

many people are just absolutely

fascinated by the story and what you

guys have done in this new film is

essentially recreate S4 and using AI,

recreate you as a young man and these

experiences that you had and it was

really excellent. Luigi, uh you're the

one who put the film together. you

figured it all out. And first of all,

what was the technology that you guys

used to recreate everything that you

did?

>> I I just want to say there's there's

about 10% AI in the film, but there's

90% Blender, and that's actually

handmade CGI. So everything you see is

all handmade.

And even the deaging of Bob Lazar, we

scanned Bob. We went over to his house,

scanned his face, took a process of

deaging him through that, then creating

a digital model of Bob in different ages

and then placing him in the environment.

And then in some instances at the very

end, we perfected or kind of put a bow

on it with a little touch of AI, but the

whole thing is handmade. So the craft,

the environment, the papoose slake, the

the the facility, the equipment, and the

people were all made. And some of the

people are actually real actors that we

put in there. So it's not it's it's

there's one of the guys that is Barry in

the film is a guy called Luis Martinez

that's been working with me for the past

10 years, and he laughs at it because he

goes, "I can't believe I'm Barry." You

know? So

>> does he look anything like Barry?

>> Actually, he does. He does.

>> That's why we chose him.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Where is Barry? the actual Barry. Now,

>> I don't know. You know, I kind of

thought at one point after all this

happened, we would at least hear from

one of those guys, but uh I never heard

from anybody after, you know, after the

the initial

release of all the information. Yeah, it

seems like, wow, I don't know. If people

are able to keep secrets for this long,

it's got to be very difficult to just

blurt it out. like, you know, you're

holding on to a secret for 20, 30, 40

years. You're

>> it's like

>> I guess these guys were lifers, though.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, they spent most of their time

there. They spent at least two weeks at

a time and then one week off. So, they

stayed at the base. I mean, these guys

were hardcore. I had just come in on the

project, you know. So, um

I don't know. I don't know what happened

to him. I'd love to know. I suspect that

Dennis Mariani, my supervisor, died.

I've seen people track him down, you

know, all the way to point to speaking

to his family and they said, "Yeah, he

had some classified job out in the

desert or something and they showed me

his gravestone and stuff." So, you know,

at least they were able to track him

down. But I've never heard of any leads

on Barry or Renee or anybody like that.

>> What is it like seeing the recreation of

it in a film? cuz I mean essentially it

was your

direction for lack of a better word,

your description of it, you you telling

them exactly how everything was laid out

and then once they recreated it, what is

that feeling like when you watch it?

Well, the final product is absolutely

mindblowing because as I've said to

Luigi, it looks like you guys downloaded

that out of my brain. I mean, you know,

you can describe something a hundred

times and until you actually make a a

picture, it doesn't become clear. But,

uh, you know, this took years. I think

it was like five and a half years from

when I first met Luigi and he said,

"Yeah, I can do this." And um the

quality kept improving to where he

started showing me pictures and I went,

"Jesus, that's that's really it. It's

not really it. It's really it." And uh I

mean, it it blew me away. Later on, he

showed me a 3D environment where I could

put goggles on and move around inside. I

mean, that made the hair stand up on my

arms. It was it was unbelievable. So,

um, I don't know if I could really

describe how that made me feel, but it

felt like I was teleported back there.

And that's, you know, that's when really

I developed an admiration for Luigi's

talent. I said, I, you know, I'm behind

this. And, uh, flew out to Canada a

couple times. I didn't have much to do

with the film other than, I guess, a

couple times going out there and going,

"No, that's right. That's the wrong

color. Move this here. Do that." And uh

but those guys spent over three years

working on it. And um you know what they

and they never showed me anything. You

know, I'd speak to Luigi, you know, a

couple times a month and you know, he'd

always say, "You you oh my god, you

won't believe this." I said, "Show me.

No, it's not it's not done yet." So I

really didn't get it to to to see

anything till close to the end. But when

I did um

really without trying to sound dramatic,

it really put tears in my eyes going

that that's it. That's it. You you did

it. Just stop. It's perfect.

>> So I had the pleasure of watching the

movie with you and sitting there with

you. There was a bunch of times during

the movie you were like,

>> "Yeah." Yeah.

>> Like you could tell

>> Yeah.

>> that it was just like

>> I swear I could feel that place. I I

could feel it watching that movie. It it

it just it really freaks me out because

as I've said before, it's not like what

I saw. It's it's exactly what I saw. Um

it's it's perfect. It's just like Luigi

was at S4 with a camera. So, um

>> was very unique. It worked. It's a it's

a very unique documentary in that

regard. and and watching it with you,

seeing you experience this thing and

then me trying to imagine what it's like

for you. You're this young scientist who

gets brought in on this thing without

much explanation and then all of a

sudden you're confronted by this craft

and you you know the way it's broken

down in the film and you get to actually

see you viewing this thing and being in

the presence of this thing for the first

time. It's just very I could just only

imagine what that must have been like

for you. And it's so weird to watch you

watch it again and see your wheels spin.

What the happened to my life, man?

>> What did they do to me? What did they

what did they make me experience? Like

what the hell?

>> Yeah. I I I really can't fill in the

blanks there. It's uh I I want to just

say that there was a time when Bob got

angry at me a lot cuz I wouldn't show

him and he was like, "Come on, show me."

And I said, "It's not ready yet. I don't

want to show you something." But at a

certain point, we had to. And Bob

started remembering more stuff.

>> Yeah, that's true. M it really made a

big difference when he when he showed me

some things and you know walking down

the Carter here and turn oh stop wait

there's another door there I mean it was

like I was going back into the facility

and uh really brought I mean actually

seeing it again uh really brought some

things back that I that I had completely

forgotten about. So that you know

>> well what's really fascinating is for

people that don't know your story you

came up with the story you talked to

George Knapp and was it 89

>> 88

>> 88 89 somewhere in there.

>> Yeah.

late 80s you've essentially told the

exact same story all these years and

then within the last you know 9 10 years

we've started to get all these reports

there was the New York Times story there

was the goast video and the fleer video

and all these videos that show a craft

that's moving the way you described this

sport model moving

>> right

>> which kind freaked a lot of people out

with the way it rotated and turned.

>> Rotate. Yeah. Does the belly roll faces

at the bottom towards where it's want to

go and then it it takes off and Yeah.

>> It's exactly how you described all those

years ago, which is really

crazy.

>> Well, that's I mean that's the way it

was.

>> But it's just it's it's crazy because

you had this story way way way back then

and everybody's like this guy's just

making things up. This is all cockami

And then you see those videos

from these fighter jets and you're like,

wait a minute. This is it's moving the

exact same way he described. It's doing

what he described in 1989.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

Um

>> time to take a drink. Cheers.

>> Cheers.

>> Cuz it's so weird. I can't. I mean, I've

had so many conversations with people

and you know, one of the things that

comes up is, uh, do you think Bob Lazar

is telling the truth? And I say, look, I

don't know. There's no way I can know,

but he doesn't seem like he's lying.

I've been around a lot of liars.

>> Look, nobody can know unless you're

there. You know, I'm the biggest skeptic

of all. Although, if you look at

Wikipedia, it says I'm a conspiracy

>> theorist or something. Conspiracy

theorist. I

>> think it says I'm a faright podcaster.

>> Yeah. Right. I mean, yeah, it's crazy.

But, uh, you know, that's my train of

thought now.

>> Well, they that that if if you like

basically, are you a conspiracy

theorist? No, you don't even look at

this stuff.

>> Well, you've had if you have a lie, you

have one lie and it's amazing because

you've told the same one for all these

years.

>> It's a pretty detailed lie.

>> It's also not normal. Like normally when

people lie they get bored with the same

lie and then they come up with another

lie and there's some other story some

you catch them eventually you catch them

there's some cockami new thing that they

come up with and it's the type of people

that are that deceptive I mean it's just

it doesn't make sense it doesn't fit the

standard model of someone

>> well there are other people involved

with it I mean this is for the first

time Gan Huff finally is on film you

know because when I had the you know the

test flight information. Um he was one

of the not one of the he was the first

person I told about that and uh you know

we were all able to go out and and see

it and so everybody knew that I wasn't

crazy. Um it was

>> and then also all the confirmation that

you were being with that you know

when you were in the gym they would show

up and open up your locked car doors and

open up your trunk and leave it there so

you'd go out there and see it. They'd go

to your house when you weren't there.

>> Yeah. They were even Right. They were

even following George Knapp and and uh I

mean all of us, anybody that had

anything to do with it at that time.

Yeah.

>> Uh they were keeping eyes on. It was uh

>> not just eyes, but a lot of intimidation

tactics. Just letting you know,

>> letting you know that they could touch

you.

>> Yeah. It's a I I've really worked for

decades to push this out of my mind. So,

it's always tough to bring it back, you

know, and and talk about it. And it's

yeah, although it might be funny now, it

wasn't funny then at all. Um, it was a

really stressful time and still is a

very stressful thing for me.

>> I know it's so many years ago, but do

you remember the thought that came in

your mind when you realized that it

wasn't ours?

>> Do I remember the thought?

>> Do you remember the experience? Yeah, I

I remember the feeling

>> of recogni because initially you saw the

American flag.

>> Yeah. When I saw the American flag when

I first went in it the first time I went

in through the hanger door instead of

around the back. Um you know slid my

hand across it saw the American flag and

I thought, "Oh my god, you know, this

explains the UFO nuts." You know, um

>> it's ours.

>> Yeah, this is ours. This is a new top

secret fighter. we came up with a new

propulsion system and uh you know it

explains everything because I never

believed in flying saucers. I thought

people were nuts. Um

but when they started reviewing

everything with me, they were trying I

was trying to replace somebody or they

were trying to use me to replace

somebody as quick as possible and um

they had two directives. One was to

directive one was to duplicate the

technology with available material at

any cost, which is exact verbatim what

it was. And directive two was to be able

to disable this technology at a distance

at any cost. And

you know, once you start thinking about

that, wait, don't you guys know how the

thing you built worked? And it's kind of

like they left that out that this, by

the way, this isn't ours. And Barry is

the guy that filled me in going, "No,

no, no. This is an alien craft." And we

need to figure out how this works. Look

at the technology here. I mean, this is

decades, light years ahead of where we

are. And uh

I I it it was a it was a shock really to

me. I remember going home that night and

just laying in bed and reviewing

everything that everybody said that day.

And uh

I really don't remember

how I felt the following days, but I it

was just a different it was just a

different feeling.

>> Like the world just changed.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. It was

>> I don't know. I really can't put it into

words.

>> Well, I couldn't imagine I couldn't

imagine what that experience is like.

And it's also very strange that they

would bring you in and not specifically

state to you that this is not ours. They

just bring you in and just give you a

directive. This is your what you are

trying to accomplish.

>> Well, they gave me the they gave me a

bunch of briefings. Everything was

moving at a very fast pace and I don't

know why. Um I think I mentioned in the

movie uh right prior to I got there the

there were Russians involved and it you

know from what I can ascertain there was

an exchange of information and then we

discovered something something of great

importance and of course kicked the

Russians out and just held on to that

information ourselves and uh there was

kind of a knowledge vacuum there. There

was also an accident and I was told I

was replacing someone uh that was

injured. I believe he actually died. Um

>> there's no record of who this person was

or has anybody tried to figure it out.

>> I don't know. I don't have any names. I

just know that Barry told me, you know,

I'm replacing somebody that he used to

work with and he was without a lab

partner for a while. So when I came in

there, um

>> how long is a while?

>> I don't know. But I mean that brings up

a good point.

First of all, we're dealing with alien

or another civilization technology,

whether it, you know, it's from another

dimension, another time, another planet.

I mean, who really knows? Um, so

I'll eventually get to answer the

question here, but uh wouldn't you think

this place would be more like the lunar

receiving lab where everything is white?

you know, so you can see a speck of

dust. There's everything is sterile.

People are being extremely careful with

what they're doing, but you're not

seeing that. This is in now something

akin to an aircraft hanger in the middle

of the desert. There is dust on

everything. People are taking everything

nonchalantly. There's a there's a

freaking poster about the thing, you

know, they're here, poster there. Um,

>> and thank you, Luigi, for getting me. We

got to figure out a place for that and

put it in here somewhere.

>> It's awesome. I think but but I mean

they went to the trouble of making a

poster. They actually

>> I think right here.

>> That's a good place.

>> Right. That's a good spot right there.

>> Um but the uh I mean they actually cut

one of the amplifiers out of the craft.

So that my point is

>> this is in the film as well. You could

see.

>> Yeah. But my my point is it's so

nonchalant

at this point. when they first had it,

it had to be at that level and they

became so used to it,

so familiar with it that, you know, to

them it just became like another, you

know, fighter aircraft or something from

another country. So it's uh it must have

been there a long time is what my point

is

because look as soon as you have

something that unique

you don't let it just sit there in a

hanger and be exposed to the environment

and have security people walking by and

people touching it. I mean it's in an

isolated sealed secure environment and

they were past that. So I think it had

been there for a decade or decades a

long time. And these guys were

intimately familiar with it, not afraid

of it, you know, and knew what was going

on.

>> So they essentially had gotten just

completely acclimated to the fact that

this craft exists, that it was there,

and there had been relatively little

progress as far as figuring it out and

figuring out what it does and how to

recreate it. So it just kind of sat

there. And so

>> I think they were making very little

progress. And I think they kept going

over the same road again and again and

they probably had other experts there

and just didn't and I think the reason I

got hired is because I was a guy out in

left field that didn't necessarily

follow what was going on. I mean, the

biggest distractors in the in in in,

you know, to me anyway, in the story,

um, are other scientists, other

physicists. Well, they would have hired

me because I'm the top guy in the field.

Yeah, you you probably are, but I think

they hired plenty of you guys. And you

just kept going down the same road and

didn't do anything. I think they were

looking for somebody that just would

have some radical idea and just to push

the, you know, the project forward

because everything had stalled when I

got there and it was I I think they were

just in a desperate move to make some

progress. One of the things you talked

about in the first podcast that I think

is really important is that the only way

for science to really progress is that

these various

scientists have to be able to

communicate and you have to be able to

share ideas and you have to be able to

collaborate. But that's not how this was

run because it was so top secret.

Everything was compartmentalized.

like the metallurgists weren't talking

to the propulsions people who weren't

talking to if there were biologics

experts like everybody

>> super frustrating super frustrating

because I I think I I don't remember

exactly where that started again it's 40

years ago but I think it started with uh

with the seats

and uh no it it started with the actual

skin of the craft because everything

looked like it was made from the same

material and I wanted some information

um about you the skin the superructure

of the craft and they said no that's

that's restricted what's you know we we

need a reason for you to I I just want

to see if everything is exactly the same

material and what I call the seats in

the craft I still don't know if they're

the seats but they might be I think it'd

be hilarious if they were actually

something else um but I wanted some

information on those and that was

restricted information too. There were

other groups working on that. So they

compartmentalized stuff so much. There

was no exchange of information between

any groups. I mean you could submit a

written response that your supervisor in

my case Dennis would have to carry over

and they would have to approve and you

know you'd get a two or three line

response from you know the other group.

But that's it's just that's not how

science works. science works on the free

exchange of information and it they they

were just killing themselves with

security and uh it was it was really

frustrating. It was terribly

frustrating.

>> So was this a function of security

people people that are concentrated on

top top security that don't truly

understand how collaborative science

works?

>> Yeah, that's it right there. You can

stop right there that they had no idea

how that works

>> because it stands to reason that

whatever that thing was made out of

probably in some way interacts with the

propulsion system and whatever controls

that are in it that this material has to

be particularly unique.

>> Exactly. That's exactly my point. And I

suspected the material was an electric.

You know what an electric is?

>> No. Okay. You know, like a magnet, a

permanent magnet is like,

you know, it's a magnet. It's forever.

It's a magnet. It has a magnetic field.

>> An electric is a material that has a

permanent static field to it,

>> a static electric field to it. And I

strongly suspected that's that the craft

was made out of an electric. And I was

not because again that's the material

science guys. I was not allowed to

connect that too. But that's a that

that's so important to connect it to the

propulsion system and how the propulsion

system uh interacts with the amplifier

or the emitters. And I just I I wasn't

allowed, you know, the information I

needed. So it was uh

>> I don't know. It it it was

self-defeating is what it It seems like

they were treating it like a fighter jet

or a automobile. Like in an automobile,

you have the outer area, the shell of

the car. You have the doors, the skins,

the hood, the roof, all that stuff,

which is me. But then you have the

propulsion system, which is the engine,

and the transmission and the tires and

the wheels and the suspension.

>> But they're all not connected. They're

connected because they're bolted

together, but they have different

functions, right? I think the idea or

the concept at least is as I'm gathering

from you is that this thing all worked

as a cohesive unit

>> right with no physical connection

between

you know between the subsystems

>> and all of it made out of the same

material

>> at least on the outside at least on the

outside all made of the same material

and the other crafts all had the same

power plant in them so that brings to

mind, you know, like a like a GM plant

that makes a car with a Chevy 350 and

makes, you know, a dozen different

models to it,

>> right?

>> So, that makes you think about, boy, is

there a a factory making these things?

And, um, you know, your brain can just

wander off in directions, but I tried to

stick with just the technology. Um,

>> did you know who the metallurgists were?

the people that were

>> Oh, I s I saw them, you know, I know

them. And Barry, we'd go to the

lunchroom, Barry would point them out,

you know,

>> and you weren't allowed to communicate

with them at all.

>> Oh, hell no. You have a a lab partner,

which my in in uh my case was Barry, and

you're you have you're allowed to talk

to your lab partner, but you can't talk

to any other group. That has to go

through a written request. has to go to

your um supervisor and he'll bring it

over to them and they'll bring it back

and so on and so forth. But uh yeah,

that's that's ridiculous that that that

it slows down any progress you might be

making,

>> which is why they were probably stalled

out for decades.

>> Yeah.

>> Did you ever expressly

communicate to them that you

you theorized at least that this all

could be connected? that there's there's

something about the way the metal works.

>> Oh, we all knew that. We all knew that

because we'd get requests from other,

you know, from other groups and you

could tell they're desperate just like

we are and and and fighting against the

system.

>> What kind of requests would you get?

>> Just exactly what we found out. You know

what? Where is the energy being

transferred here? If the reactor fires

up, is there a field present around it

or is the field just absorbed into the

emitter and you can touch the, you know,

reactor itself? And I just l little

things like that, you know, if uh and

actually that that was an important

thing when the reactor is operating,

is it perfectly tuned the uh emitter to

where it removes all the energy from the

reactor and pushes it out the bottom?

And the the answer to that was no. I

remember that as a specific request from

you know from one of the groups. Um the

metallergy group is the one that we

really wanted to hear from. Uh and some

of the group I didn't I don't even know

what some of the other groups were.

But how many groups were there?

>> I I don't know. There were only 22

people there total including myself.

So, um

I I would like for you to tell Joe one

of the things that also interested me

because I built the craft is how the

wave guide worked with the ceiling in in

the interior and how it blended. If you

can explain, there was no telescopic.

>> Well, this is why we wanted to talk to

the metallurgist people. The uh the

reactor that sits on the bottom of the

craft has a little dome over it and

there's something that looks like a pipe

that's slide. You can lift it up and

take the reactor out. Put the reactor in

and lift it down. But you know like a

antenna works on an old walkie-talkie.

>> It has different sections.

>> There it is. There's from the video.

>> There it is. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um,

yeah, you can retract the pipe, but

there's no sections and it doesn't get

any thicker.

It just becomes smaller. And if you look

underneath,

um, where the emitters hang down, um,

they turn

it, and it it it doesn't buckle. It's

it's a magical material. This is the

this is the basis of the craft is really

the material that it's made of. It's a

it's amazing the way it works. It just

you can push it into a smaller volume

and it doesn't change at all. It doesn't

it doesn't get bigger physically. It's

um I don't really know how to describe.

>> So you're lifting the pipe up and down

but it's not going anywhere. Look, if

you had a big pipe

>> Mhm.

>> and you push it together, it has to get

thicker,

>> right?

>> Because the material has to go

somewhere. This doesn't.

>> Okay. It stays in exactly the same

dimensions. It just becomes smaller.

>> How?

>> Well, yeah,

>> because you couldn't talk to the

metallergist, so you have no idea.

>> Yeah, but those guys knew how.

>> They did know how.

>> I Well,

>> well, they know it did it.

>> They know it. They know it did it. And

that's their job. So, I imagine they

have more information than I did. Um,

but that was fascinating. It really was.

And the uh the waveguides that hold the

emitters, they come down and the

emitters can turn and bend and the pipes

bend and nothing changes in them. It's

And there's no wires or anything to make

the pipe bend.

Um,

I'm I'm trying to relate it to

something, but I can't think of anything

to relate it to.

>> Well, one thing that you said that I I

also thought was fascinating, this is no

seams, so everything looks like it's 3D

printed

>> again. Right. It comes down to the

material,

>> which at the time 3D printers weren't

real, right? They

>> Yeah. At the time that really confused

me. I said, "How did they build this? It

must have been built out of wax or

something and then melted. Um cuz you

can't build anything without seams. And

then 3D printing came into existence and

you know you could build stuff from

layers up. Um

that made sense. I know some sort of 3D

printer or they grew it uh you know in

some

of course it's not a crystal in fashion

but um

I I don't know how that was fabricated

but it was fabricated different than

anything that we have. I don't even

think it was 3D printed. And so you

never got any inkling or any

understanding of what the metal was,

what what kind of an alloy, what it

consisted of.

>> All I can say it was cold to the touch

because the you know when I when I

touched it, but um I can't say it was if

it was a ceramic or I say it was metal

because it was cold um

>> because it looks like metal.

>> And this is

>> Yeah, it looks like metal. Does that

This is the Designs by Perry um version

of it. Does that How much does that look

like? It

>> No, that's 100%. That's it.

>> It's got to have the uh the first ripple

supposed to be black.

>> Yeah. Right. See?

>> Yeah.

>> So, Luigi has gone over this. I mean, so

many things. Uh the

>> there's an insulator ring in

>> Jamie, show what it looks like in the

film. If you could show one of the

images. I don't I was pulling it off the

trailer and I don't they might not

they've been holding that back. Oh

>> yeah, on the trailer there's a ring

shot. I got it. Yeah, there's there's a

ring around it and we measured the

voltage on the craft and there was a

high voltage on it.

>> Um

and above that ring there is

>> this is not a good shot. There's

probably

>> this is the original trailer. It's the

new trailer that would actually Yeah,

that one there. And you'll get to see it

right

there. Actually, right after this,

it's actually before this. I believe

you're going to see the craft. And if

you see there's a black, right? There's

like a black line.

>> It's the first ripple. That's actually

not metal.

>> Yeah, we call that the Yeah, there it

is. That's a good shot. We call we call

that the insulator ring because below

that there's a high voltage present on

the craft all the time and above that

there isn't um

>> I would imagine that your life has like

two completely different chapters is

before this and after this whereas like

once you see it the whole rest of your

life is now going to be very different

and you are you are in in its presence

for how long would you work there for?

>> I don't know, maybe 6 months or so.

>> So for 6 months you're around this thing

and I would imagine has to occupy your

thoughts 24 hours a day.

>> Well, at the time it did for sure. It's

actually three stages to the life. It's

before it, during, and after it. Before

it was just my life. During was when it

happened and then the after part of my

life is almost trying to dismiss it, you

know, to just go on.

>> Yeah. You didn't talk about it for a

long time. I mean, you did the George

Nap interviews. You talked about it a

little. You made some videos explaining

things and how things worked.

>> No, I don't I don't really like public

attention and uh I don't really like

doing interviews. Um, as you probably

know and

you know, but um I know there's people

that thrive on that stuff, but you know,

uh

it I felt privileged to be part of the

project, but it left me with an

insatiable appetite. Oh my god, I want

to know where it's gone. Look, even when

I was there in the 80s, they were

talking about moving the project at that

time. So,

um

I really I I'm dying to know is it still

there? Has it moved on? So, did they

split it up and move it to other places?

Um yeah, I remember Barry talking about

moving it to uh the South Pacific like

in Quadrilan or something, but they said

the expenses were so great they couldn't

do that, but they wanted away from

everybody. and the they hated the fact

that it was right alongside the highway

in Nevada, you know, by south of Area

51. Uh but that's the best place they

had at the time and the most affordable.

And of course now with, you know,

budgets being so tight,

who knows where it is.

>> Well, who knows if budgets are tight for

this though. I mean,

>> yeah, that that's true. That's true.

>> I mean, they did say at whatever

expense, figure this out. Yeah, they

were serious about that. We don't really

care what it was. It was like the

original Apollo program, you know, back

in the Apollo program, if they needed

parts and if somebody had something

ordered UPS or through the mail or

whatever, they had the authority to stop

that shipment to that other person and

take their stuff if they needed it. And,

you know, they had an unlimited budget.

I mean, if you're working like that, you

could do anything.

and uh

>> or at least anything that's currently

possible with today's technology.

>> There you go.

>> Which there in lies the problem is that

they're dealing with something that's

not possible with like you couldn't

build it from scratch with American

technology in 1989.

>> No, but that's what they wanted to do.

And really thinking about that now, I'm

not sure I'm not exactly sure these guys

should be allowed to do that. This is

really powerful technology and the world

has really changed. I mean we have a lot

of crazy people doing stuff now and

nonsense

transmits through the population at the

speed of light and uh you know I don't

know this can be a very powerful world

conquering technology and look for 40

years I think I've said this before for

40 years all the people in control of

this information have all agreed to keep

it quiet and these aren't idiots idiots.

These aren't idiots for 40 years. You

have a line of people that all have

agreed, "No, let's not say anything. No,

let's not say anything. No, let's not

say anything." There has to be a reason

why.

And if they all agreed to that,

maybe I'm the

No, really. Maybe they're right. And

>> maybe you would have figured that out if

you kept working for them.

>> Yeah. I don't know. But I'm increasingly

thinking I'm the one that made the

mistake. Maybe this is supposed to be

just kept quiet. Yeah. But that doesn't

ring true because I don't think it's

ever healthy if small groups of

individuals have information that would

change our understanding of where we

are.

>> Yeah, there's that. There's that.

>> It's I don't think they I don't think

they deserve it. I don't think it's

right. I don't think it makes any sense.

I think you

>> I don't know. I mean, really, but really

think about it. What if it's something

that's really dramatic?

>> Like, how's like what do you think would

be like

>> I don't know. May maybe I mean, what if

it's I'm not saying this is what it is,

but I mean, what if it's like,

you know, like we like we raise cows out

in a field and just feed them grass and

they're just going to be food. What if

it's something like that? What if we're

just like, you know, a a population of

creatures that are just to be consumed

in some way?

>> I don't know if we're to be consumed,

but I do think we are

>> not physically consumed like eaten, but

I mean,

>> I think we have a task.

And I am uh more and more convinced as

time goes on that we were engineered.

>> I don't think we came about as a normal

evolutionary process like all the other

animals. Yeah, I I agree with that. I I

really agree with that, too.

>> There's a lot of people that think that

it just doesn't make sense objectively.

I mean without seeming like a cook or

someone who buys into conspiracy

theories, if you just look at all the

other biology on Earth, why is one so

uniquely able to manipulate its

environment, communicate instantaneously

at distance, do can't really even exist

in its environment in most places that

it lives without clothes and shelter.

We're a weird animal. We're we're very

strange. Like we don't seem to have

normally adapted to our environment with

the way we've completely controlled our

environment with air conditioning and

electricity and electronics and flight

and travel. We're so beyond everything

else that evolved. Whereas every other

animal, predator or prey, planteater or

meate eater, all seems to cohesively

exist inside of its ecosystem. And then

you have us, which is like almost like

an invasive species. Like invasive

species destroy ecosystems like because

they don't belong there.

>> Well, that's kind of what we do. Like we

suck all the fish out of the ocean. We

pollute the rivers with our technology,

you know, mess up underground water

systems with fracking and drink. We

We're like an invasive species in a lot

of ways.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> We're really weird. I can't argue with

that at all.

>> Yeah, this B Tim Bashett thing. Um, so

Tim Bashett has recently been talking

about this and that he can't talk about

it because it's classified, but he said

you'd be up at night with the things

that I've seen if the things that I've

seen have released.

>> Yeah. He said, "We just need you to

close disclose it all. I'm sick of it."

Uh, well, I was briefed and I will tell

you this. I was briefed last week on an

issue or excuse me two weeks ago and it

would have set the earth on this country

would have become unglued. I think if

they would have heard all that I heard.

>> Well, this is what I was talking about.

Yeah. If

>> you know it's not like there's a bunch

of space brothers coming down going,

"Oh, look what we discovered. You know,

here I have some information." And you

know what?

>> What if it's not that? What if all the

information is bad?

>> But what would be bad? Like have you

ever thought about this? Tried to like

play it out to its natural conclusion?

Like what do you think the scenarios

could be that's bad?

>> I don't know. Everything that we're

we're Look, we view ourselves at the top

of the food chain. What if we're not

anywhere near there?

>> I don't think we are.

>> Okay. What if we're just consumables?

>> Well, I don't know if like chimpanzees

are consumables, right? They're not at

the top of the food chain either, right?

But

>> no, but there's I I would consider them

substantially lower than we are, right?

Like my

>> my good friend that died, John Leer, who

had a bunch of crazy thoughts.

>> I mean, he used to come over and tell us

that uh

you know on the moon there was a soul

sucker and when you he did he said this,

you better give me that bottle.

>> Have another drink before you explain

this one.

Um,

>> oh boy, a soul sucker.

>> John Leer was a eccentric individual.

I'm kind of sad I never met him,

>> man. He he

>> supporting evidence.

>> He was a

>> what? Terrence McKenna talking about the

moon.

>> Yeah. No, and he'd give me pictures of

these giant antennas on the moon and

>> um in fact, I'll tell you a story. He um

uh you know, he was an accomplished

pilot. had many world records and and

things of that, you know, um part of the

Lear family that his father invented

autopilot, the eight track tape, all

kinds of stuff. And uh but he John Leer

was a loose cannon at the time. uh

he'd fly from Las Vegas and uh

you know shuttle L1011s which are giant

planes back and forth and he'd say uh

you know be kind of lonely. He goes,

"Hey, you want to go to Minneapolis

tonight?" He'd call me like at 9:00 at

night and say, "Well, no, not really.

Come on, come on, fly with me." He said,

"Just put on a suit and, you know, come

to so and so." And I'd go to McCarron

airport and you know go there and uh

yeah I'm going to tell everybody you're

you know an inspector from the FAA and

okay great you know and I get on the

plane and they said you know just act

like you're you know going to kick

everyone's ass. So I go on there and I'd

sit in the they fold down a jump seat

behind the plane and I just sit there

looking at everybody and

god all this stuff is so illegal and um

you know get on there and and fly and

you know John would take and the L1011

was a pretty advanced plane at the time.

This was in the 80s and uh you know John

would be smoking his pipe. He'd take

off. He'd put his feet up and smoke his

pipe and he'd fall asleep and I'd just

be, you know, hanging out there and, you

know, before the plane would land, he'd

just, you know, wake up and, you know,

be smoking his pipe and the, you know,

plane would land itself. At the time, my

wife was taking flying lessons and, um,

he said, "Yeah, yeah, you know, bring

her up here." And um

I think they had an engineer also on

another panel. I don't I don't quite

remember, but I was there with my wife.

There were people on board and he he'd

say, "Hey, come on here and take the

wheel." And he'd get the captain of the

plane would,

you know, I think my wife was in her 20s

at the time, and just sit her down and

say, "Yeah, hold on to it." And, you

know, just keep correcting. and he'd

just let her fly the plane, which is

insane. And um you know, the co-pilot

would just look over and I remember

looking over at I think the engineer

that looked at the gauges and he just

put his head down and pretended like

nothing was happening. And um that was

just one time. Another time he was f uh

fing in L1011

going by Roswell. At the time I was

living in New Mexico and they called him

and told him he wasn't getting paid

that the company was, you know,

defaulted or something like that and

he was coming up to New Mexico and

landed at the Roswell just took the

plane and landed at the Roswell airport.

This the whole 10-11. got off, walked

out, walked up to a bus station, gave me

a call on the the pay phone and said,

"Hey, Bob, I'm coming over."

Okay. You know, you're in New Mexico.

Yeah. And he drove up, taxi would drop

him off at the house. He'd walk he

walked in. He went, "Boy, I'm tired."

And he'd just lay down on the couch, you

know, and go to sleep. And I said, "You,

what are you doing here? What's going

on?" "Oh, I just dropped the plane up.

They're not paying me." you know that

that's it. But I mean, John Lair was

such like a loose cannon. Um he was he

was a great friend to have, but uh he

had no filter. if he had a

retired general come up and give him all

kinds of information

or if he had a psychic come up from, you

know, the neighborhood and give him all

kinds of information, he'd put him in

the same category,

>> you know, and uh so he really did have

useful information that was difficult to

get, but it was mixed up with nonsense,

>> right? And you and sometimes he would

just really lean into that nonsense.

Like he was convinced that the sun

wasn't hot and there were people living

inside. And I used to die laughing. I

went, "You are insane." I said, "You you

can't prove it's hot." Yes, I can. You

know, just go outside,

you know, on a hot day, you know, and

and uh you know, and John said, "That's

not the sun. that's just the the son's

atmosphere that's on fire. And I said,

"You're just crazy." But we got along

and he knew that I I thought he was

crazy. But the thing is, a lot of people

did come to him and give him good

information. Um

anyway, I don't remember where I was

going with this.

>> That's the thing about some people. Some

people will tell you nonsense and then

they'll tell you true things. And it's

difficult to accept that true things

also come from people that say nonsense,

right?

>> Like just because they've said something

that's nonsense doesn't mean necessarily

that this thing they're saying is not

true. This other thing

>> and you've got to be able to discern.

You've got like I talk to a lot of

people that say a lot of kooky things

that don't make any sense, but then

they'll say something that rings true

and it's it's difficult because you have

to have some sort of an understanding of

the human psyche and of those kind of

people because there are kind of people

that have very loose nets.

>> You're counting on their filter working

like yours

>> and it doesn't

>> and it No, it doesn't. Some

>> but some good stuff gets in there and

you go, "Hold on. What did you just

say?"

>> Right.

>> Tell me that again. How does that one

work? Yeah, you can't really discount

people because somebody comes up with

some absolute nonsense. It just means

their filter is defective,

>> right?

>> But

>> which is also the reason why they're

willing to entertain things that are

outside of the normal spectrum,

>> right?

>> So like they might have actual real

useful information, but it's wrapped up

in there with Bigfoot.

>> Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.

>> But so the soul catcher thing.

>> Oh yeah, that's where I was going. The

soul catcher. So, um, I remember him

sitting and I think he was telling my

wife Joy the story because I walked in

on it and he said, "Yeah, there are

these giant antennas and when you die,

>> my god,

>> your soul goes up and I think he said

the grays, you know, this alien race set

up this soul catcher and that's what

this whole thing is about. And as you

die, it sucks your soul in. And they use

it in some way. And um it's not where

your soul is supposed to go. They just

like set some sort of intercept.

>> Did he say where your soul was supposed

to go?

>> No.

>> No.

>> No. He was just more re really into the

soul catcher.

>> Well, that was one of the weirder things

about some of the documents that you had

at least been alerted to when you were

on the base. And one of them being that

humans are

>> containers. Yeah. Right.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And

>> which the likely conclusion is

containers of souls. If a soul is a real

thing, whatever that is,

>> that's what you would think,

>> right? I mean, that's what I thought.

>> Yeah. I mean,

>> it's just a

>> I would prefer to believe that that's

not true.

>> Um, but maybe it is. I just they I don't

know. As Barry said, you know, they mix

absolute nonsense in there. So if they

give if you and it's unique to each

person. So if you give out any

information and they go I we heard some

stuff about soul catchers. Oh, we know

that came from Lazar, you know. So um

that's just a way where they can direct

where it where it came to. But

>> then the problem is like decades and

decades, generations, generations of

people working there. How many people

know what the real truth is? And how

many people know?

>> I don't know. I mean, there must be

Yeah, there must be a group of people

that really have the pure information of

what's going on.

>> I would assume, but not necessarily.

I would think

>> there has to be there has to be a group

of people that know what's going on. And

um

>> who are those people,

>> you know? And to me, like I I was

telling Luigi, I have a bunch of

questions for me, you know,

>> right?

>> Um

>> like what would be your questions for

you if you met you?

>> Yeah. Now questions for me are people

that ask me over decades the same same

questions. You know why is it the Navy?

The Navy paid me I always said the N

everything has been the Navy instead of

the Air Force because you know back in

the 60s and 70s you know there's project

blueberg and the air force and all that

but um everything associated with this

was the Navy.

So,

and in these days you hear some of these

new types of craft that are

>> transmedium.

>> Yeah. You you hear the word trans medium

and you know David Fraver, Commander

David Fraver, you know, with the tic tac

and you know things are under the water

and you know supposedly the the craft

that

the sport model was an archaeological

recovery and that itself was underwater.

So what is

what is the deal with the water? I mean,

it's it

it's by far the biggest medium of the

planet. I mean, if you want to hide

people down there, almost an entire

civilization down there, you could do it

in the ocean as long as you do it deep

enough and away from people. So, yeah,

number one is what's the deal with the

ocean? That's probably the the number

one question

>> because there's a ton of sightings where

people see things come out of the water.

and go into the water.

>> Yeah, there has to be a reason for that.

>> Well, it just in terms of if they have

the ability to travel through space, if

they if whatever that thing is really

does create some sort of a gravity

bubble or some sort of a space-time

bubble.

>> Yeah, but maybe it's not space.

Maybe it's not space. Maybe maybe it's

time. Maybe it's another dimension.

There's

there's really no limits. If you can

start manipulating

physics in that way, um

you can bend time, you can open doorways

into other dimensions. So

maybe it has nothing to do with going I

look we all want it to be like Star

Trek,

>> right?

>> You know, because Star Trek is really

understandable,

>> right? You go out there, you fly to

another planet, you meet the people

there, you go to another one. Well,

these guys are happy, those guys aren't,

you know, and it all makes perfect

sense.

>> I don't really think it's like that.

Look, you know, if you look in history,

especially, you know, United States

history, anytime a superior

race or intelligence meets with an

inferior one, it's never good for the

inferior guys. Never. We never come over

and go, "Oh, we just want to teach you

guys everything that we know." No. No.

It's like, "We're going to rape all your

women, take all your stuff, and then

just kill you. resources.

>> Yeah. Right. And just consume everything

you want. That's just always the way it

goes. Now, maybe that's just what humans

do. But I would be concerned that's what

all life does.

>> Well, we are territorial primates

>> and that makes sense that that's what we

do. The thing that always fascinates me

about particularly the grays, they seem

to be genderless

and they seem to have no muscle at all.

They and they seem to have enormous

heads. And the stories at least the

anecdotal accounts of people having

communication with these creatures is

that they communicate in some way

telepathically.

>> Yeah. If you transcend all of our weird

biological needs, like all the things

that are attached to being a human

being, ego, lust, greed, desire to

conquer, desire to control resources,

all those things are territorial primate

instincts. And one of the conversations

I had yesterday with my friend Theo, we

were talking about like what's happening

to people's bodies is that people are

slowly

we we're consuming microplastics and

phalates and all these things that are

reducing our reproductive system, our

testosterone dropping.

>> Right. Right.

>> All this stuff like leads you to say,

well, where does this go ultimately?

Like, well, like, how many more people

are autistic now than were before? It's

one out of 12 boys in California now. It

used to be one out of 10,000 just a few

decades ago. Like, we're moving into

this very weird direction without us

recognizing it.

>> Let me stop you there. It's one out of

how many?

>> One out of 12 boys in California are

diagnosed autistic now.

>> But do you think that might be the way

they're diagnosed?

>> No. No. I think it's exposure. I think

it's exposed to chemicals, vaccines, um,

environmental toxins.

>> You think that, too? Yeah,

>> I think that

>> it's not just me. There's tons of

studies in in a lot of buried studies,

too.

>> Okay. I mean, if that's accurate, that's

frightening. Yeah.

>> Well, it is. It's It can't be just

diagnosed because I mean, I know so many

people that have non-verbal autistic

kids where I didn't know anybody that

had non-verbal autistic kids when I was

younger. Well,

you know, I mean, back in the 60s and

70s, there was no there were no kids

with ADHD.

>> Kids that were like that were just

>> Mhm.

>> You know,

>> I think that's still the the case. I

don't think ADHD is a real diagnosis. I

think it's a real excuse to give people

medication. I think ADHD is essentially

a superpower. What ADHD is allows you to

concentrate on things that you really

enjoy, but you cannot concentrate on

things you don't enjoy. I think I have

it, you know, and I think I'm very

fortunate that I'm not diagnosed and

medicated or wasn't or was born in the

right time when they weren't doing that

as much.

>> No, I actually I'll stop you there and

say I I agree that that's a superpower,

too,

>> because it's very unusual. I can if I

find a thing that I like, I can lock in

and concentrate on it for 12, 14 hours

with no sleep, no food.

>> All I need is like water or coffee and

and I'm locked in.

>> I locked in for four and a half years.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I know.

>> I don't I don't think I think with ADHD

is you're taking kids, you're putting

them in a completely unnatural

environment. You're making them sit

down. They don't want to sit down.

They're very active and energetic.

You're making them study things by very

unenthusiastic teachers. They don't want

to pay attention. They're off in

class because they're completely bored.

And then you're saying, "That kid's got

a problem. We have to diagnose them."

And then what do you give them? You give

them aderall. And all a sudden the kids

locked in cuz they're on speed.

>> Yeah.

>> And I just think

>> Yeah. But if you focus in and let them

do what they're interested in,

>> give that kid a video game, watch them

play it for 10 hours with no

food, cuz that's what happens. Cuz

that's something that they're actually

engaged with. It's not that they can't

be focused on anything. They just don't

focus on things they enjoy. And we want

to turn people into nice little factory

workers.

>> And the only way to do that is you got

to get a kid to comply. You got to get a

kid to pay attention, follow the rules.

>> We're on the same channel. It's a really

great point.

>> I don't believe that ADHD is a real

thing. I just think there's some people

that are wired differently and they

should pursue different things in life,

>> right?

>> The difference between that and autism

is very different. And autism is

especially when it happens like almost

directly after multiple vaccinations.

There's a lot of them they point to

particularly the MMR vaccine. There's

there's but there's quite a few when you

look at the schedule of vaccines and how

it ramped up and it completely

correlates with the ramping up of the

diagnosises of autism.

>> But without casting aspersions or

getting into some antivaccine

conversation

>> you just did.

>> Yeah, I did. But what I'm saying is but

ultimately the human race is moving into

a very weird place.

>> So I had a conversation with doc um uh

Shannana Swan, Dr. Shannon Swan who is

uh she studies environmental endocrine

disruptors. So various toxins, phalates,

microplastics and plasticizers that are

completely disruptive to people's

endocrine system, reproductive system.

And from the introduction of these

prochemical products in the 1950s

and60s, you see a direct correlation

between the dip in testosterone rates in

amongst men, the uh increase of

miscarriages and infertility and then on

top of that the actual shrinking of

their taint. So, one of the ways they

find out the difference between mammals,

um, some mammals in particular, when you

see a a a child, a baby mammal, the

difference between a male and a female

is easily recognized by the size of the

gap between their anal their anal hole

and where their genitals are.

>> But that could just be correlation,

you know? It's like,

>> no, no, no, no, no. I'll explain why

it's not. Because when they've done

studies where they've used phalates,

particularly phalates, okay? And they've

introduced them specifically purposely

into certain mammals and rodents, their

taint shrinks.

>> And their taint shrinks and their

penises, their penis size shrinks. And

there's studies on alligators where

alligators when they live in polluted

rivers, they have smaller penises. And

she she talked about all this and all

this. These are endocrine disruptors

that are in the environment that are

doing something that reduces fertility

and it changes the way the human biology

functions and it makes men more feminine

and it makes women less fertile.

>> Okay.

>> Well, ultimately you look at the grays

what do they look like?

>> Yeah,

>> they look like they have no genitals.

They look like they have no sex. They

have that might be where biology has to

go to transcend away from our

territorial primate biology. Our

territorial primate biology that is

insistent on war and violence and

>> Right. And we think this is the place to

stay.

>> Exactly.

>> And it may not be.

>> It may not be. It it it may be

completely nonbeneficial to all life.

>> Right. Right.

>> We have to transcend that. And well, we

are transcending it whether we like it

or not. And what I was saying is that I

don't know if it's a bug. I think it

might be a feature of evolution that our

insistence on using plastics and

technology and all of these different

environmental toxins that we use to

produce energy and all the goods and

services that we need. also are

disrupting our endocrine system and

changing us from being these hulking

haircovered cave men to being these very

small slight autistic men that could

code 24 hours a day without

sleep,

>> right?

>> It seems like if you extrapolate and you

naturally take that further, well, what

do you get? You get really skinny things

with no muscles and giant heads. My my

take also and I and I do agree with that

is what I find out what I find sometimes

really uh concerning is how fast that's

moving. So it's not just a question of

like is this actually

this is probably a thing but it's moving

so incredibly fast. If I look at my

father's generation or my grandfather's

generation and my generation, I mean,

it's it's similar, but now it's moving

so fast. I I I do agree with you're

saying, and I'm thinking if it's moving

so fast, there could be a not a natural

component to it, but there's an

intentional component,

>> right? If you wanted to do something to

erase to change it, like think about

what we did with wolves,

>> right? All dogs are wolves,

>> right? I have two dogs that are the

furthest thing from wolves you

could possibly imagine.

>> Is that Marshmallow?

>> Marshall. Marshall. He might be a

marshmallow. Might as well. I have

Marshall who's a golden retriever. The

sweetest dog of all time. And I have

another dog named Charlie who's a King

Charles Cavalier Spaniel who is even

further from a wolf than Marshall. He's

just a cute little fuzzy little

sweetheart. They have no killer

instincts whatsoever.

>> That used to be a wolf, right? But what

happened? We softened them to the point

where there was something compatible

with our modern life with households and

families and babies and can

>> we made them safe and that's happening

to people.

It's happening to people whether we like

it or not. We could attribute it to all

these different factors. Oh, it's a

problem. We have to remove these things

from the environment. This is what's

going on. Maybe. Or maybe we just look

at the overall picture. There seems to

be an insatiable desire for innovation

and technology. the human beings have.

If you looked at us from afar, if you

weren't part of the human race and

you're just studying us, you're like,

"What does this species do?" Well, makes

better things. Makes better things all

the time constantly. You know, look, I

have a iPhone 16 here. It's not as good

as the iPhone 17. iPhone 17's better.

Why don't you get an iPhone 17? You

know, it just like keeps going. It never

stops. It never ends. The TVs get

bigger. They get stronger. Your cars get

faster. Your computer just more cores.

does processing, video editing so much

quicker. Everything moves faster and

better. We keep making better things. We

never stop and say, you know what,

society right now, we have a lot of

problems. The problems that we don't

have are technology. Our technology

seems completely suitable to this world

that we're living in right now. Let's

just stop making new things and

concentrate on cleaning the rivers and

concentrate on stopping crime and

concentrate on educating people.

Concentrate on counseling for troubled

young people. No. No. We just plow

forward ahead with the one thing that we

absolutely guaranteed do. We make better

things. We make better weapons, better

cars, faster planes. Everything we do,

we make things better. And I'll and I

sorry I have to add we do that and we

also do it in a way where it's

economically beneficial to the ones that

are making it because we make things

break now. Think about it. We make

better things but we make them so that

you have to buy the better thing after

>> right engineered obsolescence.

>> Yeah that's also important.

>> Yeah it is because then it also human

beings have this very bizarre desire for

materialism. Like what? Why would a

thing with a finite lifespan want to

accumulate objects? Like I know people

that are in their 80s that collect

things. Like what are you doing

with that stuff?

>> You're going to die. You have maybe like

10 summers left on on Earth and here you

are collecting stamps or cars.

>> 10 summers. Yeah. No. No. I have gotten

to that.

>> It's weird.

>> Yeah. I mean at some point you you have

to bypass the accumulating stuff,

>> right,

>> part of life.

>> But materialism ensures a constant

fueling

>> of innovation because this is one of the

things that gets people excited about

collecting new stuff is that you're

going to make a better version. Like it

doesn't m care how good your Mercedes

is. It's not a 2026 Mercedes.

>> It's even better. It has new features.

It's a new thing. And so it's like all

built into the human psychology and also

to this thing that I said like I said if

you were somewhere from somewhere else

and studying this species what does it

do it it makes better things. What do

sharks do? They eat things. They just

swim around. They can't even stop

swimming. They eat things. What do

people do? They they really just make

better things. They go to war. Why do

they go to the war? Really? They go to

war so they can control resources so

they have more money so they can make

more things and better things. And also

the amount of innovation that is in

warfare, in war weapons, in war

fighting.

>> Yeah. That Yeah. That's actually

critical. Yes.

>> To keep the system going. Yeah. Well,

ultimately all that does it all of it

releases more endocrine disruptors, more

contact with all these different

chemicals and toxins, feminizes men,

ruins women's reproductive systems to

the point where ultimately we say, "Oh,

for the survival of the race, we're

going to have to figure out how to

reproduce nonbiologically."

>> When I first got involved in uh Yeah,

it's

>> it's something to ponder, right? It's

something because we're so wrapped up in

who we are. We're so wrapped up in look,

I love being a person. I love living in

Texas. I love driving an American car. I

love all those things. But what does it

mean? Like what is that? What is that?

You know, these are just weird identity

points that you connect with whatever

this species is. But if you just could

just have a above view and you look down

and go, what are we doing?

Yeah, that's a that's a good question.

>> That's a good question.

>> Yeah, like how far are we going and how

fast are we going there?

>> We're going pretty fast. And now

with AI, I think we're going way faster

than we even understand because with

clawed, I mean, they they think that the

clawed AI, the the engineers, they we

think it's sentient already. It just

doesn't have a physical body to move

around.

>> AI is going to kill us. Everybody agrees

with that. There's no question. I don't

think it's going to kill us. You know

what I think it's going to do? I think

it's going to prevent us from breeding.

I think it's going to let us die off.

>> I don't think that's going to kill us.

>> But I think we're going to willingly go

with it because we're going to get like

mates like exmachina. We're going to

just something that takes

>> as soon as they come out

>> with a female robot.

>> Uhhuh.

>> Yeah.

>> That's sexually attractive or whatever.

>> Game over.

>> The game over. There's there's just

going to be no more babies and we're

just going to die out. Yeah. So, or

integrate. And I think it's much more

likely that we integrate. And that's

where you get the grays. I think that

what the grays are is a combination of

technology and biology. And if you just

if you just go very well,

>> chimp to caveman to gray, you go, "Oh, I

see where that's going. Kimp, chimp,

caveman, human, modern human,

gelatinous, soft, slowm moving, weak

modern human. Grace,

>> look, I've always

leaned into what Barry told me because

it's the only information I had that the

craft came from Zeta Reticuli, which is

a star system 30 some odd light years

away. And um you know again it was just

like a Star Trek thing.

>> They came over here

>> for whatever reason

but that information may not be true

>> right that mir information information

might be one of those things they put

out that's nonsense. Again, if it's if

it has to do with time, I think uh from

what George has told me, Jacques Valle

and some, you know, other really

credible researchers have have said that

uh these are people either from another

dimension or another time or maybe

they're us from the future, right?

>> You know, just coming back to interact

with us in some way.

>> Um

>> make sure we don't everything up

irreparably.

>> Yeah, but it see it doesn't seem like

they're doing a good job. Well, maybe

things up somewhat is also part

of the plan. Maybe that actually has to

take place.

>> I mean, holy cow, disrupt, look at the

look at the way things are going right

now. Holy cow.

>> Exactly.

>> Things are off totally off the rails.

>> But maybe that's part of the plan. Maybe

part of it is like it has to get so far

sideways that we realize how up

everything is that we start making

meaningful changings and implement AI as

government.

That's a dangerous thing.

>> Exactly. But is it as dangerous as Iran

getting nukes? I don't know. Is it as

dangerous as global Islamic caliphate?

No, it's not Iran.

>> Iran's not getting nukes. I mean, they

>> never mind. I I don't want to get into

political stuff.

>> No, you could. You could look if you

gave Iran the technology to get nukes.

Everyone has any any physicist has the

technology to get nukes,

>> right?

>> I mean the difficulty is actually making

the material. So I mean if I was Iran, I

would enrich to 80 or 90% because that's

where you can make a weapon and and stop

there.

>> Right? It's not like they would be the

only people with a weapon. Pakistan in

North Korea.

>> But that doesn't make you have a weapon.

It just gives you a shortcut to it. and

making a weapon from there and being

able to deliver a weapon,

>> you know, to 4,000 miles away. Good luck

with that. That's a big deal. So, um

>> Right. But they're in communication with

China who has that. They're in

communication.

>> Then they don't need to they don't need

to enrich uranium or do anything. They

just can you give me a a missile and

>> Right. But wouldn't they rather make

their own? But that's but that's not

even the point.

>> Rather make their own. Why? Why would

you do that? Would you rather make your

own car or just somebody give it to you?

No. Why? Why would Why would you do

that? You got a buddy that'll just give

you one?

>> Cuz you'd want to be self-sufficient.

You'd want to have your own production

where you don't have to rely on someone.

>> No, you can always do that. You can

always do that. I I don't I don't think

they're ever they were ever going to

they're going to absolutely make a

weapon now,

>> right?

>> Because we're, you know, kicking their

ass. I as as everyone has learned I

guess you have to have nuclear weapons

now to right you know but

it this is a really bad situation.

>> Oh it's a horrible situation but my

point is

>> why is this situation taking place? The

situation taking place is because human

beings suck,

>> right? We suck in how we interact with

each other. We suck. We suck because

we're territorial primates with weapons

of mass destruction.

>> Can't we just all get along?

>> Well, what is the way to stop that from

ever happening? Well, one, you let a

catastrophe unfold and then you offer a

solution to make sure these catastrophes

never unfold again.

>> Well, what's the best solution? Well, we

have something far smarter than people

that will take over control of resources

in government.

>> AI.

>> AI.

>> Yeah. This is this is Colossus. You ever

seen the movie Colossus?

>> Got to watch it.

>> Well, that that's merit against you.

>> Okay. Yeah.

>> The movie Colossus was a 1960s or 70s

movie and uh it's about um

you know the scientist makes deep inside

this mountain a computer to take over

the defense of the United States. And

you know they build this gigantic

computer inside Cheyenne Mountain or

something similar to it. And you know,

they flip the switch and they went,

"Okay, we're we're protected. We're

we're in good shape." And um

shortly after time goes on, you know,

they realize, "Wow, the computer's

really performing better than we

expected." And as it turns out,

Russia had done the same thing. and the

computers want to communicate together

>> and um you know they start communicating

and then the United States goes well

they might be giving our our secrets

away so we better you know cut the

communication line and the computers

freak out and they go well I guess we'll

just launch nuclear bombs you know at

everybody and they it launches weapons

and you know essentially holds everybody

hostage but Um,

>> it's kind of like a trap. It's kind of

like a trap. If we go that way, it could

trap us.

>> It's exactly a trap.

>> Well, you know, in simulated war games,

AIs use

>> nuclear 98% of the time. Yeah. I mean,

yeah, because they're crazy. Why