this is the shrapnel of an exploded star

and this is a meteorite schem from over

4 billion years ago and this is what

Elon will kill for Wow and all of this

is to understand that fundamental

question people want to know how did we

get here and how does the question of

God tie into all of this well for the

first time in history we might be able

to answer that question with scientific

hard data Brian keting is an

astrophysicist and Professor whose

groundbreaking research and digestible

explanations uncover everything we want

to know about the universe and what lies

Beyond let me go way back 400 years ago

a genius named Galileo looked through a

telescope and he realized that we are

not the center of the universe and now

we know the universe is vaster than you

or I can comprehend how big would Earth

be on this table small not even a grain

of sand Even in our galaxy it wouldn't

be a grain of sand but we still don't

know how the universe began and so one

experiment took me to the South Pole to

the bottom of the planet and we thought

we discovered the creation of time and

space itself took me to the brink of a

novel prize we were on the front page of

every newspaper but it turned out we

didn't see that at all what we saw was

and we were

[Music]

crushed I don't get too emotional

but we had to retract these discoveries

and it was the most crushing experience

the scientists can have but you cannot

stop doing experiments to answer these

questions now you've launched this $2

million project yeah and the data that

this experiment is seeing is exquisite

because now we know 100% that

[Music]

this has always blown my mind a little

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continue to do what we do thank you so

much Dr Brian

keing what is the mission that you on I

think I'm the luckiest man on earth I

get to get paid not that much but I get

to get paid to study the questions that

I was most interested in as a

12-year-old pimple face kid in Upstate

New York which is how did we get here

and I think it's the question that

people just want to know it's the only

question you can't know right what

happened before you were born you you

have to rely on other people's word for

it right you have to ask questions and

be curious and what is the only event

that ever happened for which there was

nobody around to ask and that's the

origin of our universe and the universe

contains everything contains life Minds

Consciousness everything down to you

know podcasters and and uh and daily

life what are some of the most sort of

controversial existential questions that

you seek to answer with all the research

that you do so you've talked about this

before on the show uh the the question

of of you know finite versus infinite

games and what we do in science science

is an infinite game right you can't win

science but along the way there's many

many finite games in other words fixed

competitions for which there's only one

Victor right I got you know uh offered a

professorship at UC San Diego that means

399 other people didn't get that job I

got tenure a lot of people don't get

tenure I got this I got that and then

eventually I didn't get you know spoiler

alert my first book's called losing the

Nobel Prize but there's only you know at

most three people that can win a Nobel

Prize every year in my field the the the

infinite game is comprised of many many

finite games and the most important

questions that generate the most

controversy the most heat the most

passion have to do with the nature of

the origin of our universe it's actually

not a settled science it's it's not

actually known for a fact whether our

universe came once existed in a certain

way eternally in a way I can describe

went through cycles of creation and

destruction and or it follows sort of a

Biblical creation narrative these are

all kind of open questions in a certain

sense and because they're not yet

resolved and because the only way to

resolve them is through data we cannot

actually answer these so the human mind

is in a hybrid it's in a super position

we kind of have a lot of knowledge but

we have a lot of questions we have a lot

of solutions but we have don't have a

lot of answers we're trying to

understand that fundamental question and

I always say I want to know what

happened on the Tuesday before the Big

Bang imagine this a day before which

there was no yesterday you couldn't even

speak about it if you were there

obviously nobody was there to witness it

but even conceptually speaking how does

time progress if time starts right we

think about time and time is very

Mercurial it's very hard to describe and

Define what time is is time what a watch

measures is time how your my hair gets

gray over the years is is time how you

know we perceive it sitting on a hot

stove versus being with a pretty

girlfriend are are those methods unequal

are they equally valid but at at its

base layer if the universe began if it

truly had a singular origin then time

came into existence at that as well and

how does the question of God tie into

all of this and what are the sort of I

guess the most controversial question is

is there a god or is there not a God

right and then a sub question to that

would be what form does this God take

are these questions that you SE to

answer me personally yes my colleagues

tend to shy away from it it's considered

somewhat anathema or distasteful for a

real honest to goodness you know work a

day scientist to talk about to even

contemplate the possibility of God and

for me I I call myself a practicing very

devout

agnostic in the sense that uh I I take

my Judaism in my case I'm I'm a I'm a

practicing Jew but the question of what

to take on faith which uh which in which

in Hebrew by the way the the word amen

comes from the Hebrew word amuna which

means faith it means to believe in

something I always say I don't believe

in gravity you know if I take this rock

and I I I don't have to believe in it I

have evidence for it science the word

science means knowledge it doesn't mean

you know uh faith it doesn't mean you

know religion or theology but for me

thinking about

God provides a certain the most um the

most luxurious or the most delightful

sort of spice to the research to the

hard work that I'm doing knowing that

the the team and I that are trying to

answer these questions we can possibly

resolve the question of whether or not

the universe began as for example it

begins in the Torah the Old Testament

the biblical narrative that underpins

the Judaism and Christianity and and

Islam as well of you know half the

world's population what if we could

substantiate that narrative what if we

could refute it a good scientist has to

be open to both so for me personally

I've always been interested in those

existential questions I I I I don't put

myself out there as a you know as a

rabbi or as some Exemplar of perfect as

religion but I'm trying I'm trying to

improve I'm trying to dedicate my life

to answering questions that others have

posed and stand on their shoulders to

hopefully get a closer glimpse of truth

but it's absolutely 100% in my mind

inexorably linked the question of a

Creator and the question of the its

creation or his creation if you will but

as I say for the first time in history

myself my colleagues and I we might be

able to start to answer that question

with scientific hard

data the question of whether there's a

God or not and which God is most

accurately represented by the science

yeah and the creation stories that those

religions tell themselves or tell the

world you've raised the 200 million

project what does that mean and what

what is the question you're seeking to

fundamentally answer with that $200

million project yeah let me take a step

back so for 2,000 years most scientists

people believe the universe was eternal

had been around

forever and then not not far from here

in uh north of north of Hollywood is a

telescope a 100 inch diameter telescope

you know five meters across and that

telescope was used by Edwin Hubble

Hubble observed that every single Galaxy

that he could see is moving away from

the Milky Way

galaxy so every Galaxy which are

collections of a 100 billion Suns just

like our sun is expanding away from us

how could he see that through a

telescope uh so he used What's called

the red shift so the red shift is an

effect that is related to what Christian

Doppler discovered called the Doppler

shift you ever heard an ambulance and

it's coming towards you and it gets

higher in frequency it goes

away that's the Doppler shift the waves

of sound are piling up their frequency

is getting short uh getting higher and

higher the wavelength is getting piled

up in the direction it's going the the

the source and it's getting lower in the

opposite direction the same exact thing

happens with light instead of getting

higher pitch in and lower pitch lower

frequency means redder colors so red is

a longer wavelength of light than is

blue light he saw everything is moving

away from it Us in the Milky Way it was

a very puzzling Discovery it went

against 2,500 years of received wisdom

he observed it with data it was

incontrovertible every single Galaxy is

moving away from the Milky Way galaxy

our galaxy

he said either you know we didn't put on

our Cosmic deodorant and no one wants to

be around us or the universe is getting

bigger tomorrow it will be bigger than

it was today the separation between

galaxies will be larger than it is today

the implication Stephen if you go back

another day before today yesterday

things were closer keep playing that

movie backwards you come to a point

perhaps a singularity where all the

matter all the energy everything that is

was or ever will be was concentrated

effectively at a single point that's the

big bang and so in the Big Bang

cosmology the universe starts at a

particular moment time comes into

existence the elements come into

existence all the elements you know in

in water you know instead of hydrogen in

water rather they all come into

existence and then over billions of

years those elements come together over

the force of gravity they uh will

eventually fuse two hydrogens together

to make helium and so forth and you get

the heavier and heavier elements

eventually those objects called Stars

they eventually burn up and blow up in

what's called a supernova and before

they blow up they create all sorts of

other matter that we're made of calcium

oxygen nitrogen iron and in their death

throw in their explosive fireworks like

ending of their lives they give life to

us because they blast out into the

cosmos into the Galaxy the material that

we're made of so literally as Carl Sean

said we are star stuff and I brought

some star stuff here today so this is

these are different byproducts this is

the shrapnel of an exploded

star this is mostly made of iron here I

brought these and I give these away on

my website I made a special website for

your listeners briank king.com

diary this is a meteorite Stephen you

ever seen a meteor in the atmosphere

that's a rock like that a mineral

coursing through our atmosphere at tens

of thousands of miles per hour how' you

know how do we know we measure their

velocity we can track them on radar how

do you know that this is a meteor oh

this has all the characteristics of a

meteorite it's composition its density

it's a structure it has that weird

pattern on it but if you're really

curious what we could do so where's this

come from then or this one was found in

uh in uh in Argentina in a place called

the field of the stars and this could

have come from anywhere in the universe

exactly this came from this is basically

a fragment of an asteroid that EX

existed before the Earth Steven this is

a fragment a fossil relic of our solar

system from over four billion years ago

older than our Earth because our Earth

formed at its core our Earth has iron

inside of it it has an iron core just

like that that's pretty heavy right

that's not and it also made this here

this if you give this to your sweetheart

if you compress this by 100 thousand

times and give it to your sweetheart

she'll be really happy about that that's

pure carbon so that'll turn into a

diamond that'll turn into a diamond

I like to say you know pressure is what

turns dust into diamonds for anyone that

can't see this right now it looks like a

a dice it's it's almost identical to

like a black dice exact yep it's very

light now contrast that to and here's a

piece of rock this is mostly volcanic

rock I collected that in uh in

Antarctica I've been to Antarctica twice

to the South Pole I collected that

specimen there it has holes in it see

the holes those come from bubbling

escaping volcanic gases so there's

volcanoes down at the the South uh at

the in Antarctica not the South Pole and

then here's this one this is found oh

gosh

Namibia so this is a meteorite formed in

found in Namibia also from the same

process that formed our solar system

this was found by the natives that lived

there uh several hundred or maybe even a

thousand years ago this one's

particularly nice if you're not watching

it it looks like a human foot and I

can't explain how unbelievably heavy

that is yes I didn't think I've held

something thing that's this size but

this heavy before it's extremely dense

it's one it's the dense so what happens

when a star tries to make the iron in

that it takes more energy to make that

fuse that nuclei of iron than is given

off in the fusion process so therefore

the star can't support its weight it

collapses it explodes and rebounds now

when your listeners or viewers you know

go to my website and if they win one um

uh you'll see how attractive these

things are to magnets it's a very uh

powerful it's called a rare earth magnet

neodymium magnet

Jesus so attach it to the meteorite it's

fine to do that you can do

that wow that sound I love that sound a

ping so this

material is highly

magnetic and iron which is primarily the

constitution of this meteorite is has

the exact same chemical structure as in

your blood there's a molecule called

hemog globin mhm it's almost identical

to the chlorophyll molecule that plants

have except chlorophyll has a magnesium

atom at the center of its chemical

Matrix but in hemoglobin that's going

through your veins right now is iron

that iron came from that Supernova

eventually your mother you know and the

food that you eat has some iron in it

and your body starts to produce blood

and that blood has the same chemical

composition as the Stars so this 200

million what are you doing okay we gonna

give back back to the money y exactly so

what is the fundamental question you're

seeking to answer so let's say you see

someone shooting a f a gun right you

want to see the but you see the smoke

from the gun you see the bullet moving

at great speed but you'd like to see who

actually shot it was it God you know was

it was it mother nature was it some

Quantum fluctuation in the Multiverse

and so we're trying to capture that to

to take a picture of the infant Universe

to take the earliest baby picture

possible using sensors that are

sensitive to in to uh microwave light

that we cannot see that's invisible to

us we could capture a pattern which

would only be present if the universe

had a singularity if it went through

this incredible rupture of SpaceTime

called The Big Bang the details of the

experiment were worked out over several

years we realized we had to go down to

the South Pole to the bottom of the

planet a place that was only reached 112

years ago and the enemy of what I'm

trying to detect is water water absorb

absorbs microwaves that's how your

microwave oven Works to heat up coffee

so we we took that telescope there we

made an

observation we claim we detected that

baby picture that snapshot that

reverberations of the creation of time

and space itself called

inflation we were heralded around the

world that this is the greatest

discovery of all time in science

literally there was just one problem

when we made this measurement we were

aware that we could fool ourselves into

seeing what we wanted to see because we

knew how important this discovery would

be but we kind of convinced ourselves

that we had seen the true birth pangs of

the Big

Bang

but it turned out we didn't see that at

all instead what we saw were trillions

and trillions of tons of dust in our

galaxy for technical reasons it mimicked

the signal of the big

bang and we were crushed it literally

dust

we saw Cosmic dust the leftover

byproducts of exploded Stars just want

to be clear here so I'm um I don't want

to move on until I fully understand so

you you went down to the South Pole yeah

you looked up expecting to see these

sort of these waves that show that the

universe is expanding yes what you

actually saw like lines of dust right is

that a simplified way of say but you

thought you'd s seen these sort of

microwaves of the universe exping

exactly simplifying it perfectly we made

this discovery and then immediately

effectively in scientific terms 6 months

later this is an early 2015 we basically

had to admit we were wrong and

fortunately for me and for the universe

as a whole um I was very close with a

man named Jim Simons he was a Monumental

scientist mathematician without peer

effectively and he said Brian I I've

been thinking about this experiment and

um I want to I want to have a lger so he

put together this this dream team and

we're still together to this day we're

building an observatory in Chile not the

South Pole in Chile to do what bicep

couldn't do bicep being the telescope

you built in the South South po y that

lost the Nobel Prize in my first Books

language and we're just now getting data

it got first light a month before Jim

Simons passed away and so we were able

to show him the data that this

experiment is is is seeing I can't show

it to you is as confidential as a diary

is you hope nobody's looking but you

don't know if anybody is I can't show it

to you but the data is exquisite so what

do you um what do you suspect is the

origin of the

universe well uh is it God is it some

kind of strange Cosmic reaction that

took place for no reason at all I know

you must have a

suspicion you know if the universe began

with a singular Big Bang if it began on

a certain day or it didn't I just want

to know the truth the interpretation of

it that's going to be going on for I

mean people are battling about as I said

we thought we detected that signal right

so we already have um a simulation of

what will happen when this is discovered

for good finally and no dust right we

know exactly what the media will say at

that time on one side of the equation

were the greatest you know religious

thinkers and theologians of the time

saying this proves the existence of God

that God created the universe in a

singular moment let there be light Fiat

Lux that's exactly what the Torah the

Old Testament the Bible says so they

said it it agrees with our hypothesis on

the other side there were militant

atheists Richard Dawkins you know other

people saying this proves there's no

need for a God the universe came into

existence like you said meaningless

Quantum field the fluctuation out of

nothingness it proves nothing about God

in fact it invalidate literally Stephen

there were people publishing articles in

major newspapers everywhere that proves

God proves no God so it's not like I'm

going to think that I have the tarity to

say I'm going to be the final word or

we're going to be the final word I know

this is going to resonate and echo

through the through the you know anals

of history but at the same time we could

also see nothing and that's the hardest

thing when you see nothing the human

mind doesn't like ambiguity you know

like you can talk about um something

very uh you know non-controversial let's

talk about abortion rights let's talk

about trans rights let's no these are

incredibly controversial things right so

what does the human mind do it selects a

side it says no abortions abortion for

everybody no trans rights yes trans

rights uh immigration no immigration yes

IM the human mind hates that and for

good reason there's an old Yiddish

expression he who stands in the middle

of the road gets hit by both sides of

the traffic so the human mind Cleaves to

one side or the other I don't think you

know in terms of you know religion or

whatever that we'll be the defendant of

final word on it but it's sort of a

privilege to play the

game what is the most compelling

evidence that you've ever encountered

that there might be a

god this is a long uh long question well

I I hope you'll find it someday too

um at least in my religion in

Judaism God is the Creator and he's the

organizer he creates um light and

darkness he creates day and night he

creates Heaven and Earth he creates

beasts and um and Earth and fishes and

so forth and then he creates man

and we can't really emulate God even if

you don't believe in God you can imagine

what a God would be like right you can

conceptualize imagine you know King

Charles you know times a trillion or

whatever like the all powerful force but

at the same time we're told God as a

father Our Father who art in heaven

right um and he's a Lord he's he's like

a politician he's a king he's their

father in this judeo-christian concept

it's hard to kind of reconcile what that

means because we don't really have

analogies to it but the one analogy we

do get is the one thing that we can

create which is a which is a human now I

think for that reason men and women have

a stake in what it means to feel a

connection to God women much more so

it's almost impossible to for a man to

comprehend what it's like to have the

ability to be a vessel for life's

creation I think that's part of the

evidence for it um I also think that

there's some there's some Clues but

again it's not proof you cannot prove

God exists you cannot prove God doesn't

exist you have to be comfortable with

that ambiguity and very few people are

if we came from a single cell organism

as some people say then there was then

giving birth seems to be quite a New

Concept because you know if you think

about some of the evolutionary stories

of you know the single cell organism

that then divided and then you know

darwinism's theory that it was the

environment that defined how we give

birth and different animals give birth

or replicate in different ways so if you

go back far enough it seems that like

giving birth as we know it which is this

like process where the baby comes out

and they cut the cord is actually quite

recent in the history

of Consciousness but also just like

living

organisms does that make it more or less

miraculous or it's so amazing but it it

doesn't feel like it gives

me I don't know there's something in my

mind that thinks if a single cell

organism I don't know gazillion years

ago split because of some mutation which

caused more single cell organisms to

split I

mean I guess it's still creation isn't

it and then you could ask the question

what if there was a Creator and this

Creator not only um you you know created

that first cell but created within that

cell the possibility the propensity and

had the knowledge you know we can't

comprehend it but but had the knowledge

that that will eventually make a person

and have Consciousness and be able to

conceptualize God now I'm not saying

that's evidence for it but just you can

you can you can see which would be a

greater miracle that like God encrypted

in the DNA code that eventually there'll

be a Steven Bartlett or Brian keing or

you know that those are natural

processes that are the inevitable

conclusion of of creation of life and

evolution as you say in darwinian theory

for which we have abundant evidence

right I don't know which is more

miraculous and and that's

why you know Miracles humans are pretty

new aren't they so oh yeah mam mammals

like how old is the conscious human the

conscious I mean the first like Homo

sapiens that are of our species probably

200,000 years old maybe so it's only

been for 200,000 years that we've been

even been able to think about the

possibility of God which is almost a

weird way way it almost you could say

God has only existed for 200,000 years

right yeah that's was a good way of

putting it and and in fact many people I

like to say this you know to you like

what's your favorite day of the year

like on the

calendar I was going to say day okay I

always ask people that I say like what's

your favorite day and usually I'll get

um Christmas uh my anniversary my

birthday my first kid's birthday

whatever but those are all Origins we

fascinated by Origins cuz you weren't

like you can't witness like the whole

process of your birth you have to rely

on mother and your father and maybe

there's some pictures and a nurse but

now go back to the beginning of the

universe well maybe there was only one

entity you know maybe it was only God

and why did God make the universe and

then of course there's many many

questions the the most kind of stringent

you know are are or perhaps most

challenging question is you know why

does evil

exist why would a good God create

suffering you know childhood leukemia

like it doesn't make any sense so the

the standard answer for that question

question is that to not have Randomness

to not have chaos to not have um

variability in life would would

necessitate a predetermined existence

and a lot of people believe that I've

talked Sam Harris in my podcast he's

been on here um he believes strict

determinism every single thing what's

happening to us right now the words that

are coming out of my mouth your uh ear

twitching or whatever it's to that's all

determined there's no control there's

free will is a complete and utter

illusion

and uh because of that then there

doesn't have to be an explanation of why

there's you know leukemia in children or

whatever and and yes that is that is an

unanswered question and I think but but

I don't think it's a sufficient question

not to do stuff people would ask why

does a child get leukemia but they won't

ask why do um humans experience uh the

highest the highest Pleasures the

highest Sensations both physically

viscerally but also emotionally and

spiritually that we unique among all the

Creations on earth have this ability to

appreciate our finite existence to have

love to have you know whatever this

connections are that's what makes life

living now we can't answer why is that

like do we deserve that so for me the

evil and good and like Pleasure and Pain

make lots of sense from an evolutionary

perspective it makes a lot of sense as

to why you would feel this overwhelming

sense of like love and protection when

you gave birth when your your your son

or your daughter arrives in the world

because that that feeling is passed down

from your ancestors and your ancestors

had that feeling so they survived and

their offspring survived and that

feeling gets stronger as it's passed

down because those that have it are more

likely to pass on their DNA so the DNA

of that feeling keeps passing through

the through the generation so I get that

and then with the with evil I also I can

also understand that pretty well um

because you know if we think of evil

maybe as a feeling or something that

happens or a disease I can understand

that evil is human is is human related

there's no evil cancer cancer is not

evil and even that I can understand

because I can understand the brain is so

fragile and I can understand all these

human instincts and chemicals and

jealousy and you know all of even love

comes with it you know if some if if a

woman dies it's probably a husband

statistically so like I understand you

know that's evil isn't it but but it's

love as well so I understand that the

complexities of all of that what I can't

understand

is what role God is playing in any of

this stuff and yeah I was I was

religious until I was 18 and then I

think I I fell down a rabbit hole

listening to like Richard Dawkins and

some of the others and Sam Harris and it

left me in a position where I would

probably Define myself as being agnostic

but there's still this big question mark

which hangs above my life which is like

where did where did human life come from

and is there is it possible that it just

didn't come from anyone is it possible

that there was a big bang you know at

the very start of all of this it caused

lots of reactions one such reaction was

fusing some chemicals which fused in the

right order over millions and millions

of years and it started to move in a way

that like plants can't move and that

then LED rise to the sort of

evolutionary process and now here I am

and my brain was just bigger 200,000

years ago than the other monkeys so now

that I've develop this thing called

conscious where I can think about things

and here I am trying to figure it all

out now that I have this bigger brain

thanks to wian evolution is that is that

the game and it's and you know when

people hear me say that they probably

think oh you know the the natural

reaction to that is because it threatens

your sense of like purpose and belonging

and it threatens Justice your natural

reaction to that is no I hope it's not

and so let me think of ways that that

can't possibly be true but I'm I'm not

tempted by that I'm tempted by figuring

out what's true irrespective of how warm

and fuzzy it is MH and um I still don't

know but I'm hoping

science has some answers for me well

yeah sorry to disappoint right now the

the the connection that logical chain

that you that you produced has a lot of

so-called missing links but I you said

something that's very interesting to be

you said you consider yourself an

agnostic it sounds like in other words

it sounds to me like you're more you're

doing things that an atheist does like

you're not going to church you're not um

you know observing mass or whatever you

would do if you're but what do you do do

do and they because if you're an

agnostic there should be some Behavior

that's similar to a theist why because

then you're just an atheist right I mean

in other words how do you what practices

I'm a behaviorist in in in my life you

know so I judge people on how they act

and how they behave and and you know a

lot about this so how do you do you

behave as if there could be a god do you

you said maybe you want science to

explain it you didn't say like I would

like to have a personal revelation from

Jesus I I would like to encounter him or

whatever V I don't care what religion is

but how do you in practice live your

life such that if God does exist that

that it would make a difference in the

way that you're perceived or judged if

you will yeah well I I I don't because I

guess I don't know what I don't know

what practice because I don't know what

God exists or what story is true I don't

know what practice is true do you think

of god let's say you were um Hindu right

yeah let's say let's say you're not

Hindu let's say you are what you are

Presbyterian or the Church of if I had a

practice wouldn't that make me religious

well I'm saying do you think if there is

a God we have to do this Matrix right we

have to say God exists God doesn't exist

even behaves like he's religious Steph

doesn't behave like he's religious right

so right now you're in one of those

quadrants you you're not sure God exists

um so you're behaving maybe as if he

doesn't exist and I'm asking you and now

he could exist or he could not exist so

imagine you move into another quadrant

you say I'm going to behave like I'm

Hindu or come down to my temple in San

Diego whatever you're going to behave in

some religion do you think if God exists

he's GNA say oh God Stephen you picked

the wrong one it's not it's not uh it's

it's jism it's it's um it's whatever

it's it's um it's um uh Latter-Day Saint

I I don't think I think a revolutionary

statement I think God has common sense

if he exists if he doesn't exist it

doesn't matter what you do right but if

God exists he must have common sense

meaning that if you make make an Earnest

attempt to understand or at least engage

yourself religiously not believe and

force yourself to believe not make

excuses for evil that happens in the

world or cancer for kids but if you

behave in a certain way I don't think if

God exists big if you'll be judged

harshly I this is exactly the conclusion

that stopped me being religious when I

was 18 really yes exact conclusion

because so we'd go to um church every

week we grew up going to church read the

Bible all of those things and then I

when I was younger I was operating under

the assumption that I was going to go to

hell and burn if I didn't like obey this

this person in the sky then I read these

books I St Richard Dawkins books and a

bunch of other books on the subject

matter and I heard that God was

omnipotent and omniscient which makes a

lot of sense because if you create this

world and you can you know you're you're

active in it you must be pretty powerful

and pretty knowing and then I concluded

that if I basically concluded God would

have common sense and I thought he would

understand that I'm struggling and he

would understand that as long as I live

a good life and I'm not murdering people

and I'm not mean to people and I'm kind

and I'm respectful to people and I'm a

net positive on the earth then if Heaven

does exist any God that I would want to

support anyway would let me in and he

would understand that I didn't have

enough information to to put my flag in

any particular religion so he would let

me in so my my thesis then became well

just be a good person and you're kind of

hedging your best because any decent God

that's I think worth supporting would go

that was a decent person he couldn't

quite see it you know whatever but but

you wouldn't see it a little I sorry to

push back but if you if you let's say I

say I want to get in shape Stephen and

and yeah I deserve it got kids you know

I want to be healthy live a long life

but you see me eating you know I

wouldn't eat cheeseburgers kosher but

hamburgers french fries you know just

just and I'm say well like you know

whatever we'll understand like I in

other words you you would agree that if

you knew God exists you would do you

would behave very radically different L

right if if I if you had an encounter

with god well Jesus or or God himself

right it depends if I knew for sure that

he existed and a particular book and

Doctrine was correct I would 100% behave

in line with that book IND Doctrine but

if I knew he existed but I didn't know

which book was correct then I probably

would behave exactly how I do

now so because the behavior the practice

the Sabbath comes from one of those

books or doctrines so right but but even

if you couldn't choose right what if

it's like um what if it's possible that

all of them are right and all of them

are wrong in other words you um we are

so frail fragile and and and inadequate

to the task of understanding what the

true nature of God is that he made it

such that again I'm not saying this is

true but but it made it possible that

there would be ways of interpretation

for how he existed right like I as a Jew

don't believe in Jesus's Divinity right

but I don't I don't fult my friends

friends you know jbot a CH I don't fault

him I don't in fact I think it's

beautiful that that's his Avenue for

worship he believes that Jesus died for

his personal sins now you would admit

that you would have uh Jesus will still

die for your sin or you know he did die

for your sins if you're an Axe Murderer

you know so I just think that level of

saying it's um as long as I don't murder

anybody you know it's like me saying

well you know if I'm destined to get

into shape I'll get in shape you know my

metabolism will work it out without me

taking this the the serious action and

working hard because you do it in your

rest of your life right and I'm not by

the way I'm not prosing it's actually

forbidden in My Religion I'm not Pros

but but the but that concept of God is

uh that Richard Dawkins doesn't believe

in I also don't believe in that like

he's omniscient he's gonna prevent you

know babies from dying from caner he's

going to do this or that like that's

where they make fun of it um or they

they they relegate it to the a friend in

the sky you called it right I I don't

believe there's a friend in the sky I

don't think that even makes sense um but

I believe that we are seeing something

so heavily refracted again if it exists

it's it's like uh showing a microwave

telescope you know showing bicep or the

Simon's Observatory uh to you know Gog

who lived in a cave 200,000 years ago

like there's no way to get from there to

here but that doesn't mean like there

isn't an ultimate there an Ultimate here

for me I I let me just say the final

thing I want to say because I don't want

to make too much about this but but um

there's a value in practicing even if

you don't believe just like I say

sometimes like even if you got divorced

like you should still get married

because it changes you and it opens you

up to the full panoply of human

experience that a lot of people don't

get to experience and when people have

the capacity the capability to do it

they should in my opinion uh by the way

I'm not advocated to get divorced either

but but the point being uh you obviously

wrestle with it and and um interestingly

enough the word Israel which is the

central you know country of of judaic

faith means fight with God it means

wrestle with God L is God Israel means

fight so how do you wrestle with it do

you wrestle with it do you think about

it or do you say you know I'm not going

to read these books that I read before I

was 18 because it seems so childish to

me now and so I I do I certainly wrestle

with it so when I say wrestle with it

not in a way that is causing me any pain

or Agony or deep frustration but

it's it's yeah it's a recurring thought

and I actually think from doing this

podcast and just um like maybe growing

up and

uh the journey I've been on I

have more questions now than I ever have

since I became agnostic at 18 so I have

more questions now it's funny I've been

on this bit of an arc where I was

certain when I was younger that God was

real and then I was really um certain

that the god I believed in probably

wasn't real and now i' kind of find

myself going back to a position where

I'm like almost like I'm starting the

research project again to figure out

what actually is what actually is real I

sometimes wonder if I'm looking for the

wrong thing cuz I think because we've

been so sort of indoctrinated into this

idea that it is a man in the sky and all

these the white beard and stuff so we're

like looking for evidence of that but

maybe I should be searching for evidence

of something else is it like a feeling

I'm searching for is it it's interesting

that you said that it REM reminds me of

Einstein Einstein said um he never asked

his father what would happen daddy if I

was traveling at the speed of light and

I looked at myself in a mirror and he

said it was good I didn't ask those

questions when I was five because my dad

would have given me this standard answer

of the 1800s which was you know you see

a reflect or whatever and then Einstein

said I would have just accepted that and

then I would never have gone on to

create the theory of relativity what you

said Echoes what he said because if you

if you had asked these questions and

just accepted the belief that you had

when you were 12 you would not be

approaching them with the maturity of a

Steven Bartlett at age 32 right and now

you have this perspective you have a

wisdom that you've accured from your

life experiences from the the millions

of people that you've helped around the

world to expose them to different things

and you're on a journey yourself so

anyway I I I just I don't so I don't

have tolerance for scientists that

dismiss it and say it's stupid and I'm

like but I also I I I find that

religious people are too comfortable

saying everything is described by God

everything happens because of God and I

see this a lot with religious children

um sometimes I'll go into kids school

and teach them uh you know about science

I'll bring these you know props and

stuff uh but when I talk to them

sometimes I'll say like oh look there's

a rainbow over there oh that's great

where did it come from they'll say God

made it

I think that's I joke that's a form of

child abuse you know if you just say

that God made it you're a completely

ignorant about the science but B you're

also diminishing God's power right if

you say No actually that's an effect of

of water droplets which are formed

hydrogen oxygen and here's their

chemistry and here's how they form uh

different state of matter when they're

in Collective and here's how that causes

light to defract at different

wavelengths and here's wavelength

electromagnetic radiation where does

that come and you keep asking the

question why why why why only when you

get to the question the answer the final

answer I don't know that's the only time

I would say Okay God could come in there

but that takes you back you know that

whole chain of refraction of light of

dialectric material of of of wavelengths

of of color all that that takes you back

till almost to the Big Bang which then

intersects with what I do you said um

that you think of God as almost like a

force do you think it's a conscious

Force I if you if I sit down and pray to

this God will they hear me I honestly

kid say I don't know but I know that

you'll change I know that you'll hear

yourself okay if you can go down to the

ocean student if you can go down to the

Pacific Ocean and just be isolated and

just pour yourself out for an hour I

guarantee it will change your life you

will be in tears but no one will see you

that's the thing that's why you have to

be alone you cannot do it with any other

person you must do it on your own

because there's no Sam Harris meditation

waking up app it's not going to do the

same for you as as just you alone and

not knowing is part of the point I think

but what's that got to do with God

what's me going down to the beach and

pouring my heart out which would get me

into my amigdala it'll get me thinking

about you know it'll make me emotional I

can imagine you know even listening to

certain music can make you feel that

what what role is God playing in in that

moment because if God exists I do

believe that he's inside of you and that

you can connect with him again you can't

detect him with an MRI machine or you

can't detect him with a laser but you

know can if again it's a big if I'm not

guaranteeing you know I'm sorry to

disappoint I'm not that kind of doctor

you know I I can't give you a

prescription that'll make you believe

but to have access to it you have to be

open to a communication right imagine

you got you know a a you know an email

and you just never respond to it like

people remember the movie Interstellar

You' seen that movie so uh there you

know the the people on Earth are

communicating with the people you know

Matthew mcc's daughter and she she

doesn't know if he's listening he

doesn't and he knows that she's but in

that sense he's kind of like this like

he has knowledge that she doesn't have

but if she doesn't try maybe she

wouldn't maybe just the aspect of trying

the attribute of trying is what opened

her up to that return signal the

communication that she eventually

received so interesting because when I

asked the question about can God hear me

and if he can hear me I guess the second

question is can he do anything about

what he's

hearing um there's so much evidence in

the world that he can't hear you and

he's not going to do anything about it

but again you say that but like what if

uh you know know who knows if if you're

if your parents you know like they were

a lot of the stories in the early in

Testament are about sterile Barren women

that couldn't conceive you know from

Sarah Rebecca to to Rachel all these

women they couldn't conceive they cried

out they they prayed and again women are

closer to God in many ways because they

contain life within them um again in

what sense are you not already the

recipient of the beneficence of

something that we just don't understand

like potentially yeah but but but when I

ask this question about like could I if

I pray is it going to influence my

outcomes in any way you know there's a I

don't believe it does I I I don't

believe it does for the reason I said

before like people were praying here for

the Dodgers I'm sure there were equally

virtuous people praying for the an

that's what I mean if you think about

the scientific method that's why I said

I don't we could we could apply that and

say does prayer work right and you could

get I don't know look through history at

the Holocaust or look at some other

world natural disaster and think it has

praying swayed the the probabilities of

bad things happening to people so I

don't believe that at all but I do

believe that fundamentally a a person

who believes that their um that their

actions have some impact will feel at

least a sense of gratitude let me let me

give you an example you're familiar in

Christianity you know people say a

blessing before the meal like grace

before a meal so in Judaism you do that

before the meal after the meal sometimes

during the meal uh but the point is the

more you Express gratitude you you

cannot be a happy person and be being an

ingrate Yeah the more you're grateful

for like the sound of you know of of you

know a song that is just so meaningful

to you the sight of a painting or a

sunset the more that you're s and in

Judaism we say blessings for those

things like we say if we see a meteor

shower we say a blessing it's hard for

me as an astronomer you got to say

blessing a rainbow another thing those

are like kind of things we become

desensitized to in life and we just take

for granted when you taste a a fine wine

or you taste you know some delicious

food again it could just be chlorophyll

here's Stephen have here's your plate of

agar gum like okay great I could live

here's whey powder that's all you ever

get to eat and you'd be like this sucks

I know what I'm Ahad and if I could only

go back to it after I get out you know

of the situation I'm going to be so

grateful to me that grateful gratitude

connects to the ultimate source of that

provided that we can't understand it's

true I cannot give you and I told you I

have problems with prayer because I

don't like to be told what to do I don't

like to be told I have to say this in

this order stand up sit down fast on

this day do this thing not eat that

delicious pink guy with the curly tail

like but when you do that you know this

the more you're disciplined the happier

your life is you know who's who's more

happy the guy who eats everything he

wants or Joo you know like the the the

person who just gives into all their

Temptations of alcohol the person who

abstains and and elevates what they do

and I think we want to elevate ourselves

above the level of an animal of the

animals but I can have all those

behaviors of like a gratitude practice I

can have a meditation practice I go down

to the beach I can do all of those

things and I still I can still do all of

those things without the need of a god

oh sure and I'll get all the benefits of

those things I'd get when I when I

Express gratitude before I eat or

sometimes when I'm getting on a plane

and I I I touch the plane to remind

myself and I can always make myself

emotional just thinking about how

remarkable it is that I get to do some

of the things I've been able to do in my

life to the point of like physical

emotion yeah um but without the presence

of

of needing to equate that to a god in

any

way so I'm I'm trying to find I guess

I'm searching for where God fits in all

of this why why is why is God why is a

god required is it just because I have

so many blessings that I should be

thankful to someone for these things

which I do contem with I go okay and let

me think about how my life has changed

in the last 10 years of you know from

going from some of those shoplifting

pizzas to sitting here and getting to do

these it's it's remarkable you you start

to think you're a little bit in the

Treeman show if you're not if you think

about it too deeply but um and you do

feel you think who do I thank for this

so you think do I thank my parents like

right do I thank myself so you do I

thank a god um but I but is that the

reason it just to just just to be

thankful but then I go there's a bias

there because there's kids in the town

in Botana that I was born in that are

still in the town in Botswana that I was

born in and they're not doing so good so

they do they have did God not like them

did and then if you go no God likes both

of you then I go okay well then God

isn't responsible for this it was

something that I did or my parents did

that responsible for this so I should

thank them so where does God fit again

and I just go around in these loops and

I go I don't know what are we trying to

create a God to make sense of the things

we feel and the experiences we have and

the baby that grabs our finger and the

Gratitude and the the the the solar

eclipse and the the sunset are we trying

to trying to give that to someone

because it's just so the a is just so

much or did God give that to

us well I mean the perspective that

you're bringing is obviously you've

thought about this a lot and obviously

your attitude is healthy and I think

that you have you know unbalanced I

think yeah obviously living as a a good

life even if you I'd never say that an

atheist can't be a good person or can't

be happy or any of these things the

question is what where does it augment

and affect your life like for example I

don't know if I would give 10% of my

income to charity before tax income to

charity if I if it wasn't a commandment

in My Religion but I don't shame for

that I don't feel like oh you needed

religion to tell you this because again

I'm still searching just as much as I

think that you are I don't feel like uh

as untroubled by the answers of it right

I don't feel like that not knowing for

sure that God exists which I don't

believe is possible anyway that that

should be an impediment to me practicing

giving charity being in a community um

uh raising my kids with an appreciation

of their history and their culture um

and and just the contrib R butions of

their religion of your religion whatever

to to the world so if you found out from

this new project that you've you've

launched this 2 million $200 million

project that you've launched to figure

out the existence of I guess where the

not the existence but the origin of the

universe the origin of life if you found

out unequivocally that God isn't real

convinces you to the point that you now

believe that God is not the creator of

the universe and that I don't know you

figure out some other way we can create

universes in little Labs maybe a

thousand years from now we can create

our own little universes from nothing

somehow or we find out we're in

simulation yeah whatever yes exactly how

does that change

you because I'm a

behaviorist I I I don't I really don't

feel like my life would be better to act

as if God doesn't exist in other words

if I know God doesn't exist then I'm

gonna act like he doesn't exist right

that's a logical assumption yeah right

so I'm going to stop giving charity like

is that going to make me happy in life

is that going to benefit Society or my

or you know Zeus or whatever doesn't

exist like I already know that's not

true right so I've kind of done this

experiment like all these other gods I

know I don't believe in raah you know a

so you wouldn't do anything differently

benefits to my life are so substantive

that I would not change my behavior but

you you're being guided then by your be

your behavior and the rewards from

Behavior which is pretty much my life

yeah well okay so right the breath work

and the meditation I'm being Guided by

like if gratitude feels good I do it if

going down to the beach feels good I do

it if having a baby feels good I'll do

it you know so like it could be

dangerous to Dev add God to my life or

take it away my behaviors are going to

be the same because I'm I'm being Guided

by the things that are making me feel

good but I don't think so you're not

like those hidden istic Instagram

influencers no because that would make

me feel good like a donut I've run the

experiment and eating the donut makes me

feel okay for the time it's touching my

tongue but then bad for 12 hours when my

gut starts reacting badly so I don't do

that anymore well let me ask you this

question so if they found out that uh

working out is uh eventually it's it's

actually going to shorten your life or

it's going to do the opposite of what

you're intending it to do necessarily

would you keep working

out how much is it going to short My

Life by um every uh every uh you know ab

crunch you do every bench press takes a

an hour off your life or something or a

couple minutes off your life oo this

it's an interesting one um

I would probably

live 10 years less to

live like 10 years better like to have a

better health span so I Pro if you told

me I was going to live to aund 100 with

without working out or I could live to

90 but I'm going to be strong and fit

for those 90 years I'll take the 90

years so in my analogy that's exactly

right so I feel like that level of of

perfecting or enjoyment and the Ary

benefits of

gratitude uh and and happiness that I've

received tangibly you cannot convince me

as I can't convince you that working out

feels I couldn't convince you working

out is bad it feels bad for you it does

something to you physically mentally

emotionally um I won't say spiritually

but for me to see the benefits to see

the things that I've seen like like look

Stephen I've buried my father okay and

in in Judaism one of the core tenants is

that it's the highest it's sort of the

highest Mitzvah it's the highest

commandment to take care of someone

who's died why because they can't

reciprocate most of what we do in life

we have some kind of contract you know

we play by the rules we do things nicely

we have contractors we invest in

Dragon's Den whatever we're going to get

some there's nothing good there's

nothing that will come out of it that

will benefit you I've seen things I've

seen people that are saints that I can't

aspire to even be in their presence of

but it's made my life better I wouldn't

Chang the things that I've done or seen

and you couldn't convince me it wasn't

good for me and as I said before maybe

you think I'm weak but I wouldn't have

done it if I didn't feel it was

commanded to me you you mentioned the

word simulation yeah a second

ago this is something that I've been

thinking a lot

about what is just for people that don't

know what is the simulation Theory and

are we living in a

simulation great question so the

simulation Theory was really conjectured

by a British philosopher or he's

actually Swedish or I believe Nick

Bostrom he conjectured the following he

said compute is getting so phenomenally

powerful in just our recent time Horizon

so the notion that Nick and others had

proposed is that if this is extrapolated

indefinitely into the future whether or

not that can happen is a question about

planetary resources you know part of the

reason Elon wants to go to Mars and I do

want to talk to you about Mars in a bit

um and that uh that extrapolation leads

in exra Le to the to the conclusion that

compute will be effectively free and

it'll be infinite it'll be completely

democra democratized it will be

completely demonetized it will be almost

you know as I said too cheap to to to

measure the expense of computing and

it'll be everywhere uh in just a short

amount of time I mean remember the the

phone that we have uh the iPad that

you're using these are like these things

would literally be a mythological

witchcraft you know 80 years ago and now

they're they're in common place and so

the the notion that Nick proposed Boston

proposed is that that Trend continues

into the future that basically the

capability of those computers would be

to be able to model entire planets

entire ecosystems even cultures

communities maybe even people themselves

so we let's take a parallel um uh DeTour

for just a bit you're not seeing me

necessarily you're seeing photons are

coming into your retinas right photons

are packets of energy form of light they

travel at the speed of light they have

different wavelengths the wavelengths we

call color they're going into your uh

cornea getting bent a little bit then

they're going to your lens getting bent

more then they're going to your retina

and they're getting detected on this

basically uh a detector just like a a

sensor in a camera which has pixels

except it has trillions of pixels

instead of millions of megapixel or few

megapixels and those are being

transduced the color gets transduced on

on cells that are called con cells the

intensity is Rod cells um and and those

are getting transduced into electrical

impulses that go from the uh optic nerve

right into your brain and remember

Andrew hin told you on the show The

Retina is the only part of the human

brain that's outside of the cranium it's

outside of the skull um and so it's a

part of your brain that's outside so it

transduces it makes electrical impulses

those electrical impulses then get

conducted like wires conducting

electricity uh and then those go into

your brain and synapses in your brain

and the neural Pathways in your brain

can reproduce those now you have an

apple Vision Pro I think I I saw you

with once um so that can you know kind

of simulate it could make very accurate

representation of me holographic perhaps

and you would want to reach out and

touch me now imagine instead of just uh

instead of just the um just the raw chem

the physical Electronics of a of a

headset Apple Vision Pro you just inject

the electrical signals into the brain so

that's plausible it's it's just purely

physical material processes uh photons

converted to electrons get converted to

neuron signals get processed in the

brain and so all you have to do is get

that input sensory input you can have a

digital retina a fake retina and you

stimulate it goes into your brain

they're working on that same with sound

sound is even easier you put a little

speaker in your ear and you'd hear um

but uh so the notion is that we could

physically just be disconnected brains

in a vat right we could just be uh in in

this vast system just Bunches of brains

don't ask how they got there but we're

all just receiving stimuli and we're

just being fed I'm being fed an image of

you over there you're being fed an image

of me over here I don't know why nobody

knows why this would occur but the

computing power is there if you think

that the Apple Vision Pro if if you were

alive in

1971 uh you could not have necessarily

predicted the Apple Vision Pro it was

too far Advanced from from what we have

right from what we had at that point in

time but imagine it just keeps

increasing at any rate you like

eventually there'll be a point where

every bit of information every atom in

the universe every Photon in the

universe could theoretically be

simulated again I don't know why this is

but it would be indistinguishable from

our reality according to people like

Nick Bostrom and others that suggests

this is so so that our existence is we

are essentially in a

simulation so the notion is that we're

all these characters in this literal

simulation run on some computering

device some Hardware device that we

don't necessarily understand at this

point and we're calling that God well

that was I was going to get to uh So

eventually you get to a point where if

you could simulate everything then you

would have to ask there must be some

simulator right there must be some

master simulator so let's say I'm a

simulation well who simulated me and

then oh who simulated them and then who

simulated them so that's the recursion

that's infinite regress you can't

actually get to a base level of um you

know a final simulator and if you did it

would kind of be like God like you're

talking about this brain in a jar that's

created out of silicon and and and

oxygen and whatever we're made of but

it's physically created by human beings

what if you can't pay the power bill

that week and um you know you have to

choose between unplugging your

refrigerator or unplugging the brain

like is that killing something you know

like it starts to enter into the realm

of ethics and maybe even these concepts

of a deity what I've heard and I find

quite plausible is um remember I said

the the implication of having infinite

Compu is that you can simulate

everything in the universe yeah uh but

can it simulate itself so I want to

digress into what's called complexity

Theory there are two different types of

of difficult things there's like a

complex thing like building an Airbus

320 it's very complicated right you can

do it if I give you all the parts all

the instructions give you the right

order and I keep you energized like

anybody can follow the instructions and

make it the Earth's weather pattern

state right now is complex there's

there's no way that you can actually

create that like you would need another

plane sized thing to create that that's

called irreducibly complex you cannot

make it simpler and then Build It Up

from simpler and simpler things unlike

an Airbus you can build it up from

smaller and smaller parts and as long as

you follow the recipe you know if you

follow the recipe for the Simon

Observatory you'll get the Simon's

Observatory but if you try to simulate

and it may be the simulate the weather

you do need another planet like we' need

another planet just like the Earth and

then we'd introduce carbon dioxide as

certain rate and we see is it really

going to cause it like that's totally

impractical right so the question of

these things is um is it really a

simulation if it's not 100% like you

could make a very very good weather

simulation we do have that uh but but

famously they're only accurate for a few

days right so so how do you build up you

know an accurate simulator it have to be

the same so in other words do we need

like another is there another Universe

where the simulators are that's equally

complex to the simulation creation that

they made and then did they stop like

did they get are they made of silica are

they artificial are they so there are

proposals that you could detect the

presence it's kind of like you mentioned

the chman show where how all computers

work right now is is on this binary code

zeros and ones five volts zero volts um

but um and that means that the world is

fundamentally discretized it's broken

into little chunks like the screen on

your computer or your iPad it's

pixelated in space we call called voxels

volume elements um and so you can um you

can have an a large number of them but

it's a big difference between a large

number and infinity to really have a

continuous like like um temperature is

continuous like go from 0 degrees to 100

degrees and there's every step in

between but in the simulated world

because you couldn't have you need an

infinite number of computer power to

simulate just from 0 degrees to one

degree not let alone from 0 to 100 or

every possible combination

so at some level you you'd see if you

zoomed in really close on the on the

thermometer you'd see there's a little

jump so you could detect the presence of

the simulator it's more complicated

actually it's done using astrophysical

sources called Gamay burst and other

things that are um that have properties

that are seemingly incompatible with

their being a simulation at the most

distant and therefore earliest moments

in the universe so right now there's

zero evidence for it Nick Bost will tell

you and you should have them on uh that

that you know that that's basically a

copout and and there are ways around

that that uh that fail safe mechanism

aliens do aliens

exist yes aliens do exist uh there's an

old joke they're called hungarians

hungarians are there's so many countries

um so I I yes there's all joke there are

aliens they're Klingons and they're

around Uranus but I wanted to give this

to you Stephen as one of the gifts I've

brought for you today this is some soap

for you this is soap Uranus soap it's

Uranus soap so you want to keep Uranus

clean

um thank you so much in all seriousness

uh there's no evidence for

aliens there's no there's what's I call

possibility does not equal probability

the existence of so many stars in the

universe means there's so many planets

which is true we found almost every

single star has maybe 10 planets around

it and we have a 100 billion in our

galaxy alone there's a 100 billion

galaxies in our universe we're talking a

one with 24 zeros after it that's how

many planets there are in the observable

universe planets planets people say that

means that it's got to be life in the

universe no it doesn't mean anything

there could be uh so many hurdles for

life to get started let alone to create

complex technology producing life like

us that we're essentially we're it and

I'm not saying we are it but I'm saying

there's been

0.00% evidence that life exists beyond

the earth I know you've had Lou alzando

on U the claims that he's making are

controversial they're not scientific

they're government I'm not dismissing

his experiences of people he talks about

they're not persuasive they're not

addressing fundamental characteristics

the universe is vaster than you or I can

comprehend you know if this was our

solar system the nearest star would be

like near in San Diego there's almost no

way for us to comprehend how enormous

our solar our universe is let alone how

vast the cosmos is how much of it can we

see we can see technically we can see a

lot of the universe but most of that is

way before even molecules formed in

other words there's no possibility of

life let's restrict ourselves to the

Milky Way galaxy which is the only

Galaxy we'll ever be able to explore Etc

at least unless we invent Wormhole

travel like Interstellar uh but but for

now we have sent probes the farthest

probe we've ever sent was launched in

1977 it's one light day away from the

earth okay so that means traveling at

the speed of light the fastest speed

possible which is how much miles an hour

186,000 m per second 300,000 km per

second it's only quote it's only gone

one light day away the nearest star is

1,200 times farther away than that it's

four light years away so it'll never get

to that other star I mean it took and it

took 50 years to get one light day so it

need 1,200 times 50 years call it 100 so

you're talking like vast numbers of of

Millennia to get to the nearest star and

that star we don't even know if it has

on it or not and it's not actually going

to that star but the point is the UN the

Galaxy itself is so large and the types

of environments in which life can take

hold are so so precarious it's it's

actually we we tell ourselves a story

like you said with molecules and then

they start to evolve and then they get

it's it's really not known how life got

created it's not known how life came

from non-living material from hydrogen

helium oxygen how that turned into a

cell it's a it's a vast Challen

challenge in what's called organic uh

synthetic organic chemistry and the

formation origin of Life uh and then to

say that those entities then evolved

into some kind of technologically

produced know if we found a dinosaur on

Mars that would be the the discovery of

the of the UN of the history of the

planet of of all time right a or

whatever even a bacterium on Mars there

would be an incredible Discovery so some

people try to defeat this notion and say

well life didn't have to necessarily uh

get started in all these planets it

could have started once and then get

brought to those other planets through

meteorites yeah this was actually

created this theory was created by the

same Fred Hoy who came up with the Big

Bang Theory they called it panspermia

sounds dirty but it's not so these

meteorites could carry genetic material

and they could land on another planet

they could have landed on Earth that's

one theory that life on Earth originated

from another planet that had life on it

and in fact this is one of your lovely

pardon gifts um this is what Elon will

kill for I'm going to give you something

that Elon doesn't have this is a piece

of

Mars This is a real piece of Mars it's

1.52 four gram of another planet I want

you to touch it you can see it's a

little bit reddish like the planet Mars

This is much better than the butt soap

you gave me I gave you a piece of Uranus

and a piece of Mars

here's some information about it I give

out as I said these meteorites on my

website Brian king.com to Lucky winners

each month and I give out the

information this was found in

Africa and how did it get here well a

meteorite hit the planet Mars shattered

off debris that debris orbited around

Mars for millions of years perhaps

eventually had plowed into the Earth and

landed in Africa they found it they said

this they knew it came from space they

analyzed it it has the same chemical

composition molecular structure as the

Landers that are on Mars right now

measure for Mars so we know 100% that's

for Mars it's incredible so Elon is

desperately trying to get there that's

your little piece please than keep it

keep it safe and that's one way that

life could have gotten to Mars from the

Earth right the same thing happens on

the earth as happened to Mars so it

could have hit uh Earth blasted off um

some amibas some orcas some kangaroo

whatever and whatever was on the earth

at the time and then eventually landed

on Mars with the DNA of it but it didn't

take hold right so planets exchange DNA

it is possible but we don't see Life on

Mars if we think about this table yeah

um give to put in context how big the

universe is if the universe was the size

of this table how big would Earth be on

this table uh incomprehensive sensibly

small not even a grain of sand no no not

far far

small fraction Even in our galaxy it

wouldn't be a grain of sand even if this

were our galaxy wouldn't be a grain of

sand no no no our solar our whole solar

system would be perhaps yes one grain of

sand If This Were a Milky Way galaxy

which is 100,000 light years across it

would be like one tiny little grain of

sand what would be of the solar system

out to the planet Neptune so the what's

that 10 planets what something well we

have uh there's eight planets in our

solar system including the Earth used to

be nine but Pluto is no longer a planet

um so and we're about onethird of the

way from the edge of the disc of the

Milky Way so traveling all across there

yes we would be perhaps the entire solar

system actually smaller than maybe half

a grain of sand and can we travel to the

end of the solar system well we sent uh

this object it's gone well beyond it so

the edge of the solar system is about

four light hours so we in 50 years

Stephen we've only gone quote and I'm

not D this is a historic accomplishment

we actually put on these on these

spacecrafts

um digitize pictures of human life of

voices of songs from every continent of

culture of recipes of laughter of

children crying of babies they put this

called the Golden Disc Carl Sean was

responsible for this and they mounted it

to it and it's now uh well as I said 24

light hours away and the farthest edge

of our solar system the planet Neptune

is is four light hours sorry 24 light

hours is the Voyager spacecraft so we've

only gone one six of we've gone only six

times the diameter of our solar system

so our entire solar system would be a

grain of sand on this table less even

yeah about half a grain yeah half a

grain of sand on this this table this

table is about 2 and a half met roughly

big and how many tables are there that's

a very good question we think at least

100 billion

tables each one with 100 billion grains

of sand there are more there are more

grains uh sorry there more stars in the

entire universe that we can observe than

every grain of sand on every Beach on

every continent on our

planet that's really wobbled in my head

so there's our entire solar system is

half of grain of sand on this sort of 2

three meter Table and there are a

hundred billion tables so you know when

you hear that you go okay we really

don't matter like we're really it's it's

so bizarre that we've fallen into the

Trap of believing that we're like

important in any way and then that for

me that even throws another Market

towards religion but the other thing it

makes me go is

surely there's got to be some other life

on one of these grains of sands on the

hundred billion

tables again the well let me just

address the first thing so um you're uh

about 10

maybe 15 trillion times bigger than a

virus or

bacteria um can that bacteria affect you

or a virus hurt you of course it can so

size doesn't really make that big a

difference in this context right Jupiter

is a 100 times you know bigger in

diameter than the earth does it make it

more important I think the Earth is much

more important I like the earth a lot

better um the sun is a hundred times

bigger than Jupiter like would you like

to live there so the point I'm trying to

make is size isn't really that important

numberers not really that important and

remember don't ever forget we're the

only conscious you know entity that we

know about in the universe right there's

there's literally 70 different types of

of primates right like monkeys you

talked about before a bonobos arut none

of them have what we have none of them

can have this probabilistically let me

give you an example uh I've been to

Antarctica twice for bicep experiments