every day i wake up the first thing i

think

am i going to be able to talk today

there's been a red card but for who

chris tamara

i don't know jeff hazard one of

britain's best love football pundits

it's been a great job

unbelievable jeff what a cracking game

there's a young black kid thinking that

one day i'll play four middles

middlesbrough and four leads ambition

and dream

achieved

the story of your mother i found very

difficult to read it was difficult in

those days

men

were physical towards women i made the

mistake

of

telling my dad on his deathbed that it

was wrong

i should have kept it to myself

[Music]

why

for someone that has never experienced

apraxia

what does it feel like for you and your

head

i feel a fraud now in terms of

broadcasting you feel a fraud

i

was gonna quit everything

without further ado i'm stephen bartlett

and this is the diary of a ceo i hope

nobody's listening but if you are then

please keep this to yourself

[Music]

chris

what do i need to know about

your earliest years to understand

the man that you are today

whoa i don't know really um

my childhood is slightly clouded um

so

i wouldn't change anything because you

can't change the

course of history but

life was difficult growing up very

difficult um

so yeah

i wouldn't change anything to be honest

when you say clouded

well good days bad days we had uh

terrible racism at the time uh when i

was growing up i was born in 57

so in the 60s it wasn't good we were the

only black family on our estate

so anything happened and the police

would come knocking on our door take out

that away and you'd have to get cleared

and

come home and the whole process would

start again it's that black family there

who are causing all the problems

and

occasionally uh not all the time

my dad

were like to bet

so he would

on a thursday he when he got paid they

got paid in cash and then brown

envelopes

would occasionally go to the bookies and

so

we'd end up

you know struggling for food so it's

clouded in those ways

i'm looking through those clouds now but

you know

uh

thinking it didn't do me any harm but it

happened you know

your mother and your father's

relationship

uh

mum was the

most loyal wife you could ever have

absolutely even if her and dad

and arguments are fights or whatever

she would

venemently stick up for him you know

when anybody called him you know

the n-word was vibrant back in those

days

and you know i hear these stories now

that

it's impossible to understand

uh

racism if you're not black it's not true

it's totally not true

my mom got colder and lower

throughout

you know the 60s when i was aware of it

uh and she came through it so she knew

exactly what racism was about

your father was from sierra leone yeah

and your mother was from

middle flow middlesbrough yeah

people don't always think about that

they don't think about how the

in in that context because my mother's

from nigeria and my dad's from coventry

so i'm

you know and

what my

dad went through as well because his

wife was black

um is often not spoken about but often

the the partner

carries the weight and the the um

the insults all the same

i i was reading through your story about

how your mother would also on thursday

she would walk up to 10 miles

to go and get your dad's

pay packet yeah through fear that he

might spend it yeah she had to and so it

became a ritual in the end she would do

it all the time in the end when we were

older as kids she didn't have to carry

us to

the uh workplace which was 10 miles away

uh

a brown journey and

so

she they ended up she would walk to meet

dad and they would go off into town

together you know and that became the

norm

did your dad ever show the

impact or the consequences of the way he

was being treated like an outsider in a

country where he people were telling him

he didn't belong

uh

to us as kids did you ever see the

impact of him emotionally

did it manifest itself in drinking or

was there ever a sign that it was

impacting him uh he told us often enough

he'd been involved in

fights uh

back then fist fights you know that was

the norm you know he had to stand up and

be counted but he was always the one

arrested in those fighting situation

um but he

he had this thing and he drove it into

me and my brother don't ever

react you know i might be reacting

but whatever you do don't react you know

take it on the chin

and ride through it

you'll get through it that way it's been

harder for me

and i'm doing this for you so

yeah you'll benefit

and money

you know the other thing that i read

that i found i found really difficult to

read was the story of your

your mother

when

your dad's gambling

problems

were very difficult your mother would

and you didn't have money your mother

would go around to other houses in the

street and knock on the doors and ask

for bread or anything or money that's

how it had to be you know if you've got

tuesday and wednesday to come

on a monday and you haven't got food and

milk and until dad gets paid on thursday

she'd go and borrow

money or milk or bread

from the neighbors she had to she got

turned away more often than not but she

persevered she had to she had to look

after her kids

how did you feel amongst that time see

what agu at this point five six seven

eight

um

well yeah

it wasn't all the time you know it was

occasional so

yeah i would say

from eight-year-old i became aware of it

more uh

i know it's eight because i had to light

a cold fire at eight years of age

can you imagine you know i can imagine

asking my boys

to get wood and paper and matches and

then light the paper and then once the

wood gets going put the coal on top at

eight years age yeah yeah

[Music]

spooky yeah

you were asked to do that to heat the

home yeah

they we didn't have sensual heating he

had a fire coal fire that was all yeah

you had the

oven in the

back of the house in the kitchen so

you'd put the

gas on to heat the kitchen when it was

really cold but the main source of heat

and the hot water was the fire

was there was there a lot of love in

your home

uh

yeah i would say intimately yeah yeah

yeah you know when i look back now

um

i would change anything even though

there are aspects that i'd like to

change

one or two one or two things you know

what

the thing i want don't want to do is

is

destroy

the

person who my dad is for my grandkids

but it was difficult in those days you

know

men

were physical towards women

uh so yeah

yeah uh difficult yeah

i sat here not so long ago with alex

scott

the the um football presenter

broadcasting yeah i worked with alex at

sky

yeah her book comes out in 10 days time

in the book i was reading about how um

she's never spoken about it before

publicly but

she would come home and watch her father

beating her up her mother

constantly

and the mark that left on her as a young

child having to witness that kind of

violence in the home

and it's not really talked about enough

and it's funny the reason why i bring

that up is because

she's also grappling with the same um

fear of

tarnishing her father's

life

yeah

yeah but it was done i presume

my dad grew up with it

and so you thought it was okay

for him to do it but like i say

you know

my kids will probably listen to this and

you know i don't want to say too much on

it is there a mixture of emotions around

it because that's what i observed in

alex as well was there's this like

you look at someone in your life whether

it's a parent or someone you love and

you say that behavior was wrong

but at the same time

i i love you you're still my father

and it's you know that that balancing

act of like should i hate this person

should you never say

yeah

i made the mistake

of

telling my dad on my death on his

deathbed

uh

that it was wrong

and he

he

saw like wouldn't accept that he'd done

what he'd done so

you know

why does that make you emotional

well

i should have kept it to myself

why

why wait until he's nearly dead

to say something i'm a grown man in this

time

your mother

yes

puts a smile on your face yeah of course

um what role has she played in making

you the man you are today

um

she was everything

you could want in a mom

she would do anything for me

um she did

my dad never saw my school report from

the age of five until i left school at

16.

she protected me that way and so yeah

but not only that you know

my mums are great and

she looked after the family um

as good as she possibly could and

you know

she was my world

and at that age what was your what were

your dreams

if i'd asked you the question what do

you want to be when you grow up yeah

footballer yeah no danger

playing for middlesbrough initially and

then

when i saw leads on back to the day

around there may sounds

boring all leads yeah ambition to play

for borah dream to play for leagues so

footballer nothing else tunnel vision

yeah

why

football what was it doing for you oh

everything yeah i used to play

on the field near

our house

with again squirrel men from the age of

12

and i wasn't bad you know and they would

try to kick lumps out of this little kid

who was embarrassing him so

yeah it stood me in good stead

when i played against men at 16

i couldn't look after myself

eventually you um you end up going and

doing a couple of months in the army

yeah the navy

yeah

no um

uh dave richardson

uh who was uh

uh coach middle

boys

came around my house and said to my dad

uh there's a chance not guaranteed that

chris will be taken on uh as an

apprentice a middlesbrough and he went

no

no he's not going

if he stays in middle row

he'll become uh

he'll be in trouble with police uh he'll

end up drinking and stuff like that he's

not staying in middlesbrough he's going

in the navy he made my brother join the

army

and he made me join the navy

literally

frog marched me down to the recruitment

office and the sign on the dotted line

can you imagine you know well i can't

imagine doing that to my kids you know

and in a way i think that worked against

me with my kids

because

i never pressurized my kids to do

anything at all

you know let them

do whatever they wanted whereas

i probably could have been a you know

a little bit more

in terms of football or

you know

but i want whatever they wanted to do

was my wish and i think that came from

my dad

when he marched you down there and you

had a love for football at that time he

marched you down there and he wanted you

to join the navy

how did you feel

um

not good i have to say not good um

it was

one of those things i left middlesbrough

boys were

in a semi-final um the week before i was

going in the navy so i knew

i had this final coming up when i signed

a semi-final coming up when i signed uh

for the navy

so i was thinking hopefully the

semi-final and final

yeah of the middle boys

uh will be over

but i played the semi-final and then

i didn't uh get in touch with dave

richardson to tell him i wouldn't be

there for the final because i was off to

tall point in devon

uh well como it's across the water from

plymouth um that's where i'm from

plymouth yeah plymouth yeah so you know

it's comal and not devon yeah but it's

uh it's a stone's throw

and uh that's where i got my lucky break

yeah

your lucky break

yeah when the navy football team were

training there so uh

i went down um

one day

and uh i asked the coach if i

could train with him and the team and he

went now

three reasons one you're on

a trial

so

yeah what it did you were on a trial

situation whereas

you got to

six weeks whether you liked the navy or

they like you and if not you could leave

so he said come back in six weeks

uh if you want and the other thing he

said number two

he said is your black and these lot are

kick lumps out of you so to speak

so and the third thing is you're too

skinny you're not gonna be strong enough

to play in the

uh navy football team so i said okay

anyway got to six weeks

was fine uh was okay

and then

there's a six months

period then where you can decide if you

want to stay in the navy or not

so

uh i went back to see him and he kept

saying no no no and then one day i was

running around the track while the navy

football team and he said look we're two

players short i'll play on one side you

play on the other just stay out on the

wing and you'll be fine

so i said okay anyway i scored two goals

from the wing

and got drafted straight into the team

straight away and

the rest is

history

we played

portsmouth

reserved

and um

navy side i scored another two goals

against them they asked how old i was

and

they bought me out for the

magnificent sum of 200 pounds

and

my dad um

i i found my dad and i told him what was

happening

and he wasn't happy so

i spoke to the navy and said look

would you do me a favor would you give

me a letter saying if it don't work out

as a footballer i can go back in the

maybe and they said yeah fine

so

i got that letter

uh

sent it to dad and it sounded like made

him

you know a bit more cell

hmm

and then it happens your your career

portsmouth

a lot of people don't um

a lot of people will never appreciate

especially in this the modern era even

me even me as a guy that has a a black

black mother and a white father the what

racism was like back in the 50s and 60s

you know the first time i experienced

racism was

maybe 1990

eight

no it would have been later a little bit

about 2000 roughly about when i was

maybe eight or nine or ten but when i

was reading through what you experienced

at that in that time

almost constantly yeah yeah i just it

it's it makes it almost makes my

experience feel like it was nothing

and i mean that like i remember like

once or twice or three times you know

over the course of my whole childhood

people being overtly racist

but when was the first time someone was

racist to you

i know exactly when it all scanner never

forget it

i was eight years old once again that

was the time where i could light the

fire and go to the shops to get

cigarettes so you went with a note for

the shopkeeper

so it was

10 wood vines for my mum

and 20 capstan full strength

my dad

so i went to the shop

gave the note to the shopkeeper

uh and he's getting in this woman uh

came in the shop

anyway she asked for a pint of milk or

loaf of bread i'm not sure of those

details

and uh he said i am i'm serving this

young man here

she said isla should

go back to where they came from

and i thought i live five dollars away

from you you know

uh i'm not you know from somewhere else

and he said no look he stood his ground

the shopkeeper and served me and i went

out with uh ringing in our ears and then

blacks and souls

shouldn't be here

it says it all that you can remember

that day with such detail

[Music]

i can yeah

that's something i don't think people

realize is the first time someone called

me in the n-word at school i remember

everything about that day i can't

remember many other days but for some

reason that was a it's a very traumatic

experience

and the first sort of signs that you're

different yeah unwelcome

um

and that would go on to continue

throughout your

childhood your football career

i read about the story when you were

playing against millwall i believe it

was

and someone had thrown a banana on the

pitch at you um

yeah no wall was

horrific but not just for me as a black

person it was for any footballer that

went there you know basically but even

harder for me i can always remember uh

once again if you ask me about my career

and there's you know lots i forget but

the first time i took a throw in there

the ball went out

and they kept the wall initially it

wouldn't give me it and then eventually

got through on to the pitch

and the

uh

um

fans uh virtually there and you're

taking a throwing from there so i'm sort

of like taking this throwing and all of

a sudden spit is on the back of my the

packet much

i never took a throwing ever there again

that lesson was truly learnt yeah

and the the the other story which i

found it just sounded like something

from

a thousand years ago was when you went

to the pub after a game

with your team and the the pub owner

made a comment a racist comment to you

yeah yeah that was in wetherby i'd

played for portsmouth at sunderland

um

and

1976

i think sunderland needed to win to get

promotion to the what is the premier

league now the old first division

we needed a win to stay up

in the old second division

what is the championship now anyways

sunderland won

that day

i always remember that game

for two reasons not just the weatherby

incident

i drank champagne for the first time

uh sunderland sent a case of champagne

into the dressing room because they got

promoted that day

so

we get on the coach uh every

virtually every team that played

sunderland on newcastle would stop at

whether before fish and chips

um

so uh

so we stop so we all pile in the pub uh

most of the players

and the barman says we don't serve his

kind in here

and

the lights were all gone and i went no

no no it's fine uh to be honest i was

underage anyway i was 17. um

but that didn't matter back then i'd

been going in the pubs since i was 14

you know

um so i went no no it's fine anyway

mickey mello's one of my teammates

said i'll bring you a pint out but that

was the first time that my teammates

realized you know do you get that often

and stuff like that

they're saying yeah occasionally you

know but

part of life you know

you get on with it

it's one thing to to shrug it off and i

feel like in that situation

there's a time in place you know

to um to address some of these things or

to confront them

your father had taught you to kind of

not react as you say

but as you look back on that period of

your life

how did that racial abuse shape and

change you as a man

uh

it made you wary of other people

obviously

you know

not happy but i wouldn't say oh god it's

traumatized me or

something like that

and then the

black lives come out and people start

telling their stories of

racism

and the way they've been treated and you

think ah why can't i tell my story now

and i have them

[Music]

has that helped you telling your story

to be honest i wouldn't say it's helped

me out not help me

i think

since i've had this

well i've got two conditions an

underactive thyroid and

apraxia

the underactive the thyroid

plays with your emotions

so

i get a lot more emotional now whereas

stuff i wouldn't even bat an eyelid in

the past because of this little

butterfly

uh thyroid in my neck it now

makes me more emotional

when did you discover the underactive

thyroid uh well

it's funny you know it's really funny um

it's

i did

going through lockdown initially the

first lockdown in march

uh when the weather was great and

everyone you know quite

you know i think they were gutted about

the lockdown but the fact you were at

home and the sun was shining

things were slightly different i did

loads and loads of shows from home you

know

celeb use and steph's back launch itv

lorraine and stuff like that sky sports

from the you know

barn at home

you know so that was fine

so uh

all of a sudden i began

to not feel well

um

too well but i always stroked it off i'd

take you know

tablets and be fine the next day and all

that sort of stuff but it wasn't going

away

and uh

i thought

what's going on but i ignored it ignored

it which is the worst thing you can

possibly do

so i would get away with it at home by

hardly not being the person i was you

know i'm not talking as much when i'm

broadcasting for sky

i'm trying to keep minimalistic because

some of the words are coming out slurred

and stuff like that so

eventually

um

i've got to go and see someone because

i literally went

a whole year if not 20 months

before

i actually

got diagnosed with underactive thyroid

so

it was all my prayers answered at once

uh

you know

you've got an underactive thyroid take

level thyroid

once you find your level of level of

thyroxine you'll be fine

great doctors great uh sorting out so

eventually you take 25

grams or whatever it is a level entire

auction

eventually when you find your level

you're fine so i get to 175

and my thyroid is stabilized

bull

my voice condition is still exactly the

same so what's going on

so my doctor then says go for a brain

scan

so i'd go for a mri scan anyway

go and see a brain specialist he looks

at the

x-rays the mri scan fine not a problem

nothing wrong with your brain it's got

to be something else that's going on

so uh

go back to my gp and tell him what's

going on he's got the report

from the brain scan so he says he he

won't give up my gb

he says

it's not obviously your uh thyroid

there's something else going on

would you go and see this doctor lily

and late he's a specialist

so i'll go and see dr lily in leads and

before

uh alboni said hello to him uh and

before i can even chat to him he says

you've got apraxia

of speech

right how do you know i can tell

straight away the difficulty between

the brain and your mouth being able to

speak you know it's probably slower than

it is now uh at that time

so he said a lot you know i want you to

go and have a dat scan which is which

rules out parkinson's or stroke and all

that so so

i did uh went back to see him with the

result for the results i should say

and he went

the good news is

uh you haven't got

parkinson's or anything like that the

bad news is

you know

we can't find anything else wrong with

you so

you know the apraxia

you know will probably get worse

and uh

and

you know

that went on for

quite a while uh

i went to see a therapist

and he kept saying to me look you need

to tell people you know you can't

continue

on tv and people are saying is he drunk

and what's the matter with him has he

had a stroke

you need to

come out and say something i said i

can't i can't i'd rather quit

than

actually say something

uh

anyway eventually

i

spoke to my mate ben sheppard

uh

told him what was going on so he said

look

come on

uh gmb

uh

we'll chat about it and

let the world know

what's going on

how are things for your your family

during this period

um

my boys had been saying to my wife that

something wrong with that uh

for a while

and

she saw like

would broach it with me but i'd be

quite snappy and you know which i'm not

anyway

you know and say no i'm fine i'm fine

don't worry about it i'm fine

and i kept thinking like i said once i

got the thyroid problem the level will

tie rocks

i'll take it away

and then

um

it's still with with me and

yeah

yeah

it's harder for people close to you i

think you know because

my two boys are saying oh you're okay

oh yeah i'm fine i've just had a bad day

you know don't worry i'll be fine uh but

they know you know

you can't pull the ball over their eyes

for too long

for someone that has never experienced

what it's like to have apraxia

what does it feel like for you in your

head

it feels like

someone is taking over my voice books

so

the

voice that used to come out would come

out at 300 mile an hour you know you've

seen me on the

results and

uh soccer saturday you know my mouth

talking uh

not even waiting for a breath just keep

going and going

now when i hear myself or see myself on

tv it's someone else

it's strange it's really strange

some days you know their message from

the brain to the mouth

is really slow yeah

makes it difficult or some days the

words come out different that what

you're trying to say and that's even

weirder

uh and so that's been hard to accept

and still hard to accept i have to say

you know

i

was gonna quit everything you know

literally every single

tv at the end of last season leave sky

uh quit bbc quit itv quit channel four

and five

and all those companies

uh

bbc i think it was the right time to

leave sky

uh i'd had a great innings but

itv channel on channel 5 said no no

you're coming doesn't matter you know i

said well it's the quality of the

program no it doesn't matter

you you're fine we want you to do this

and would you believe i'm now

doubly busy than what i was before

that that period of um

uncertainty you get the diagnosis

the specialist says to you it's only

going to get worse

[Music]

your career is at that point in

speaking

it's in presenting broadcasting yeah

what's what what was that period of

uncertainty like on your mental health

um

yeah it was uh an acceptance really

because what i said to my wife is if i

wasn't a broadcaster it wouldn't matter

would it

and so she said yeah yeah so i said you

know now's the time i've had a great

time i spoke to my agent

simon dent said look i'm getting out of

all this

and he said yeah you can yeah don't

worry

i'll leave it up to you and uh

yeah i thought that's it quit i've done

my time

and

i'd like to thank all the people

that are being persistent and said look

at 25 percent coming years

you know

still better than some people you know

and skye

saw you on that show forever

um yeah presenting and bringing you know

insights and wisdom and laughs and

um all of that to the show

i also watched the tribute um that jeff

jeff did when you left what was that

like having to to speak to

to jeff and and the rest of the lads and

tell them

departing and for the reason um well

jeff's a really close foul and he knew

that been something going on for a while

and he kept saying to me are you all

right and i said yeah i'll find you

don't worry i'm fine you say well you

know

yeah what's going on so i said honestly

just had a couple of bad days and stuff

but i'll be fine on saturday then he'd

send me a text and say you know fine

again no i said i'll be all right next

week or whatever but

yeah you can't pull the wool over

people's eyes who know you real well and

uh it was great you know

the tribute that skye gave me which

like i said was the right time to leave

there

uh i cried when he cried on the show

i've never seen him cry before

he's a really um

beautiful powerful moment

um

since then

you've uh in your own words you've

really thrown the kitchen sink i think

is the quote um

um the apraxia and can you talk to me

about what you've done since to

to um

mitigate the

impact of the

um

condition on you and your life and your

career

yeah the um the day i went on

gmb and spoke to ben sheppard

um

and kate um

the i got a phone call immediately from

a fella that i knew

ish

uh a fellow called winford doors and uh

he said uh

i can cure you you know i know there's

people out there that'll help

to get you right

so

he said

i want you to come and meet a professor

nicholson down at sheffield university

so i said okay so i met winford and the

professor anyway between them they were

saying

you need to kickstart your cerebellum

which is in the back of the brain

uh what's happened is uh it's shut down

so we need to get the jump leads out

start it again and get your brain going

and get your speech going

and uh there are various ways to do that

[Music]

so

so i said yeah what are those i'll do

absolutely anything here to try and get

it right

so

he got

[Music]

zing performance which is really

exercises for stroke victims but it's

helped my balance

uh

arc performance which is micro currents

going through my body i still i have

a tag on my

ankle now with those micro currents

going through all the time yeah all the

time yeah

uh for seven hours every day

um and it's helped

yeah it's helped you know i'm

i wouldn't say um

more than 60 percent

the old me but

you know i was 20

you know so i've gone up 40

for a

hyperbaric uh tent you know with the

oxygen he recommended

i do that and i see a therapist

who helps with the speech and help my

anxiety working for sky

became very difficult you know

before i

even

came out and said i've got it

my heart would be like mad before they

came to me at sky

oh the anxiety was terrible because i

was

knowing i wasn't the old me

so i went to see him and he said look i

can cure that

the other problem the apraxia is a

biological condition so i can't help

with that but

we'll try you know and see if we can get

you through things

so getting rid of the anxiety helped me

finish work or

the

work i had stacked up uk strongest

mountain the games right tv

uh all those shows cash in the attic i

present

um

so they helped me do that um

and uh all those

um

treatments you know i'm taking so many

vitamins these days and uh

i've just been introduced by winford

uh to uh

the

uh

best neurologist neurologist

in america and

he said because i have good days there's

no reason why i can't be cured

so i've sent off a load of blood tests

and everything to america and i'm just

waiting on the results

how is life for you now

you've been through a journey yeah you

know

where are you in in that journey now

strange uh

strange in terms of

i feel a fraud now in terms of

broadcasting i don't bring

to the table what i used to

um so that's hard

my life away from the screen

couldn't be any better

you know grandkids

you know family yeah

it's

you know it's perfect unique yeah

you feel afraud

yeah

um

because you because you

i feel i'm doing these programs and

and they're not getting the best of me

but they're tolerating me you know

that's how it feels

i mean

who am i to say but um you know i

i think what you what they told you

about

as you said 25 of you is better than

pretty much everyone else

you know i've you you've brought so much

joy to my life growing up made me love

the game more made me understand the

game more you've made it hilarious i

mean you know that you're you're loved

more than anyone i've ever seen on the

screen so

and you've earned that that's a skill

that's something i couldn't do

i wouldn't know how to do a slither of

what you do so

i don't think that um i suspect that

fear is is not as logical as you think

it is that you're a fraud

i mean that as well like i could never

do what you do i can do of 10 of what

you do

so um

you know

it's like anything else you take it for

granted your old self you do things

you know

that tribute that skye gave me

that's

reserved for someone who passes away

isn't it you know so i've had the

tribute while i'm still alive

uh that people don't get when they go

you always look back and think you read

the obituaries and the comments and

things why didn't people say that

you know so

i think

maybe i should have bowed out

then

you know and

taking the accolades and said thank you

you know am i tarnishing

what i've got what i had

but i but i think um my rebuttal to that

if i may is that you you're serving the

world in a very important way now still

even by having this conversation and

being vulnerable and open

you are serving hundreds of thousands of

people

thousands and thousands of people in a

completely entirely different way

that are suffering

with with various conditions whether

it's

you know as you said post-stroke victims

or whether it's apraxia or other things

and they're struggling with the same

self-doubt

it's funny like our missions just change

over our lives right like so your first

missions was in football and then you

became a manager then you did

broadcasting and now this chapter of

your life is just a different chapter

you're still you know a wondrous

broadcaster but you're serving people in

a completely other way probably maybe

arguably even in a more important way

see what i mean yeah

yeah i do

yeah

it's funny i did the itv games and

a youtuber who was called young philly

i'd never met him before but he's on the

first show

and he sees me before we go broadcasting

and he comes over and he starts doing

that he went you're a god

when

what

you know

i'm young philly pleased to meet you

do you know what icon you are for black

people

that went nah don't be darby you are

you're a trailblazer

you know you did tv before diversity

you know how did you get into tv when

you you know on sky sports and there was

no black people around and all that so

stuff you're an

icon and i went no i don't see myself as

uh anyway well you'd be my inspiration

so

makes you feel good for a second that's

worth it right yeah

and that alone that that thought that

you're inspiring people just by having

this conversation

and by sharing your story and being

honest and not running into the shadows

as you could have very easily done

is gonna help that and you probably

never get to meet them like you got to

meet young philly

hmm but that's got to be worth it right

yeah

yeah it was i didn't believe him but

yeah

he's got no reason to lie though

quick one as you might know crafted are

one of the sponsors of this podcast and

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make really meaningful pieces of

jewellery and this piece by crafted when

i put it on for me it represents courage

it represents ambition it represents

being calm and loving and respectful and

nurturing while also being the

antithesis of that seemingly the

antithesis of that which is um sometimes

a little bit aggressive with my goals

and determined and courageous and brave

the really wonderful thing about crafty

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this next uh this next chapter

what what what do you want it to be full

of

my life has changed uh in terms of

grandkids

you know material things

don't matter anymore um

the love yeah for

you know your kids kids uh is something

else so

you know

i'm one of those now

even though i'm still working my main

priority is spending time with them

what advice would you give me

you know i just turned 30

last week

what advice would you give me i say it

to everyone

work hard and you'll succeed

don't ever turn down work

don't ever say on a job or this is hard

i don't like it anymore i can't do this

do it

do it and do it to the best of your

ability and see where it takes you you

know

tv

is

one of those jobs i think where if you

work hard enough you'll succeed

in football that's not the case you know

i've grown up in football and you

sometimes a lucky break is better

than working hard even you've still got

a workout but you need breaks

and of course you need breaks in tv but

if you work hard

i think you get them i started off at

sky

and so

people say how did you get into sky in

1998

well

initially

i was a pundit forum

i was lucky fortunate the first

broadcast of the

football league was sunderland versus

sheffield united at sheffield

and they rang me i was manager of the

month with bradford

in

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august we won four games and drew one

and they called me and said would you

come and be the pundit

so i said yeah sheffield down the road

from me and they said no

you've got to come into sky

in west london so i came all the way

down

marcus brooklyn the presenter who is his

first day and it was a double header six

hours of tv

obviously ads in between and all that

sort of stuff half time

and that and jerry francis was doing the

second game

so that's where fate took a hand

uh i did the first game sunderland won

at sheffield

and jerry francis got stuck on the m4 so

i did the double header so

from doing six hours of tv i became the

go-to guy then for sky so a live game

are you available

uh yeah i'll come down and do it and i

did that

and then when i got the sack from

bradford they asked

would i like a contract and i said no

but i like to keep my face in the shop

window

so i did one broadcast and then stoke

came along

and i got that job

and then that job turned sour pretty

quickly after three months

and uh

then

i just fell straight into sky

the broadcasting

and

so

eventually um

the 1999

the producer of soccer side he said

would you like to come and join the team

uh so i said yeah so you went would you

like to do some features for us

so i would actually go and train with

teams premier league teams you know can

you cannot imagine in a million years

that they let you in and train with the

players these days but i did that back

in the day 1990 you know so i'd go on

train joining the training with them

interview the managers the players shoot

the

and then i

went and edited those pieces

because i didn't want someone saying oh

yeah it's fine but you know the hard

work is done by the editor

so i would sit myself in a studio

and

sometimes it took six seven hours for a

four minute piece to edit it down

but i thought all right i don't want

anyone saying he's there by for all

hard work

and if you do that people see that

uh

it'll help not in all cases but in most

cases

that was the very start of what would go

on to be a legendary career in the media

um

i

when you look so you've given me one

reason now as to why you're successful

which is just the hard work and saying

yes

but the media business is also

it's much more complex than that in the

sense that hard work as you say is like

you definitely need to do it but

what was it about you

do you think that set you apart

as of as a in the media industry as a

broadcaster

i don't know that i'm still baffled by

that i went to ian condren's

uh

40th anniversary with his wife he was

ian was the producer of soccer sadie who

gave me the job

and

[Music]

i said

why you know

i'd seen you on doing other programs

punditry and so you'd be great for our

show

he said uh you know took a chance with

you and uh

and it works for 20 years

you mustn't you must have a suspicion

no no no at all you know i'm i was

allowed to be just me

so

i didn't have to work at it like i had

to work it

editing those pieces together you know

the training plan

uh interviewing the managers all came

natural yeah it was that hard work that

i wanted to prove that i could do um but

no

i was fortunate oh it was just me

and

when did you meet anne uh we met uh

when i was at swindon

uh i got transferred from

uh portsmouth

to swindon my first ever transfer

and uh

in 1978

[Music]

1978 yeah 1978

and uh we actually

played portsmouth

my first game

for swindon was

home to portsmouth

and

yeah i had to uh please escort to the

game um

the

uh club had been informed by the

intelligence

that the national front because

portsmouth had 200 national front

supports national front is this racist

organization from yeah couple decades

ago yeah

so

they'd got wind that they were

gonna do me in you know

um so uh

you know when i played for pompey there

was a small section of fans that

booed you onto the pitch because of your

color booed you off

you know but like i said back in those

days

i didn't care not one job you know and i

didn't care when they said about this

you know you're gonna be nothing and i

said oh it's just a threat don't worry

about it but the police intelligence

said no

we need to pick you up

and

take you to the game and drop you back

home

so i did and

uh he scored went to the year after 10

minutes

and not like today uh where

people don't celebrate uh of course

stupid me you know dad this death threat

goes straight because i scored in the

end where the pompey fans were

and

gave it all that

so uh

so yeah no

so uh the police escort wanted to take

me back to my dicks but i said no

leave it now it's fine

and uh one of my teammates

kenny stroud

his wife linda was with

uh this girl called on

uh and uh i asked her out and

you know 40 years later or 43

years later

we're still together

what a journey it's been

a long journey yeah

what does she mean to you

uh everything you know

it's

you take

wives from grant and all i did you know

i can't speak for everyone else

um

but it's only when

you have a problem like this because

you know

i

just live for today you know i'm fine

i'm you know i'm

no problems don't worry about me

so it's when you have a problem

um that you have to

you know look at your closest one and

see what they do for you and

how they react

to what you're going through which

you know

is difficult and then you feel

sad about you know not sharing things

before and keeping things away from

how did she react to all of this

um

she

she said

she thought for a while she didn't say

anything

she said she sought

uh for a while

there was something not quite right but

she couldn't put her finger on it

and she's been my rock you know now

you know

i don't i don't hardly you know this is

the longest i've spoken to anybody for a

long time you know

and you'll probably see when you edit

this tape

sometimes it's slow sometimes it's

coming out okay now it's coming out okay

and it feels fine you know and that's

all to do with the mind

maybe i'm talking about a good thing now

with ants so it's fine and it's free

so yeah she's

you know she's taking the

weight

uh a heavy weight of my shoulders

and

you know allowed me

to do what i do

to continue doing what i'm doing if i

want to do it

but she does say from time to time

you're allowed to say no to these jobs

that simon rings up and asked me to do

but i don't like to let anyone down

you know i think it's worth saying that

i think this this has been a really

really great conversation

um and uh

i'm actually quite surprised to hear

that of how much you struggled

previously based on with the

conversation we've had today

because i don't

um

i don't i don't know if i'm speaking out

turn here but had i not known about the

um the condition

this would have been a perfectly normal

conversation on this on this podcast so

it's really really interesting and

enlightening to

to learn more about it and i

yeah i can't imagine as from a family's

perspective as well going through that

journey with their father where you're

trying to find answers you find answers

and then there's that whole sort of

therapy process to get you back to where

you are and the mental health

journey that takes us on which we've not

really talked about in detail but

there's the curing the the condition but

then there's like living with the cost

of

the shift the tectonic shift in your

life

um

it consumed your mind or asda

mine

so

every day i wake up the first thing i

think

am i gonna be able to talk today you

know so

immediately i wake up i'll go in the

bathroom and i'll look in the mirror and

say a few words and

it's fine or i think it's fine

the perception is fine in my head and

then i'll go downstairs and

talk to anne and all of a sudden that

pathway is

restricted and oh god not again today

you know and that's been hard to get my

head around

and my therapist uh daniel

he says you exaggerate

in your mind you know that's the problem

because you've never had to think about

your speech now you're thinking and

you're overthinking so even though like

you've said

it seems fine to you in my head i know

that it's slower

than

it would have been had we spoken three

years ago

and that the cognition part the thoughts

that they're still the same

yeah they're they're lightning quick

yeah they're fine

so uh

they're there in terms of speech but

i have days where

if you're out and about or

even indoors there's nothing in the

brain area so

you know whereas

i could normally go into a room

did it all the

time

speak to everyone have a laugh that was

the first thing on my mind

now

that

part of it is hard work

and it feels hard work and it feels this

struggle and it doesn't feel natural

that's the worst thing

so i tend not to do it very often you

know unless

i'm feeling good i've you know

spoken to someone else and

i can tell it's fluid

uh the voice then i'll go in a room and

be myself again

chris we have a closing tradition on

this podcast yes where the um

last guest asks a question for the next

guest they don't know who they're

writing it for

and they'll never find out

um although i have said their name

earlier on so you might be able to

figure it out right

but um

the question they've written for you is

i'm going to read it verbatim what has

been the most happiest

moment of your life

full stop brought you the most joy

and why

uh is that kids aside

or let's say kids aside because yeah

yeah yeah kids aside

uh achieving my ambition and my dream

yeah

i can you know as a young black kid

playing

on the fields around where i live

thinking that one day

i'll play an awesome park for

middlesbrough and ellen wrote four leads

it's blown my mind away you

know uh ambition and dream

achieved

chris thank you i am i have no doubt

that

your ambitions and dreams are are just

getting started because you have all of

the the core the minerals that it are

required to achieve pretty much anything

and you've shown that your life has been

a testament to that even in the face of

great adversity

thank you i thank you not just for

myself and for you giving me your time

today but

um i don't think you realize how many

people you're going to help in a really

important profound way how much pain

you're going to alleviate from them how

you're going to make them feel seen and

understood just by doing this today and

just by not hiding in the shadows thank

you so thank you and thank you for all

the joy you've brought me you've made

football fun

you've made it um

made me understand the game better over

the course of pretty much my entire life

um so i'm for one i'm so glad that i

still get to see you on the screens and

i hope to see you a lot more i know you

guys showed ninja warrior uk race for

glory um which is airing on itv which

i'm very excited about watching as well

yeah i'm so glad i did it you know i

tried to pull out

when they rang me and said

we've been commissioned for series seven

i went oh no and they what what do you

mean oh no now when oh no you're not

getting the old coming they said oh

don't worry about it

and uh

i've watched a bit of the first episode

and even though it don't sound like me

it's passable you know so

yeah i hope people enjoy it well as you

said 25 percent of you is better than

pretty much most anyone else so

we'll take that thank you so much chris

thanks

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