with Drake and Josh I felt pissed

that started this whole mess

he's an actor comedian one half of Drake

and Josh a staple of my childhood

the headline of the first 10 years of my

life was a single mom never knew my dad

didn't have enough money for a slice of

pizza 15 years old Drake and Josh one

would assume that you'd be like set for

life there was no residuals and I'm as

worried about next year's financial

status as anyone else I don't have that

security and I I do want to say that I

was not properly appreciated for my work

if I wanted to at will I could blow that

up 18 years old you lose 127 pounds yeah

one would assume that dropping 127

pounds would make you feel different

about yourself I dealt with the effect

but I didn't deal with the cause it was

anger at my dad it was anger at my

circumstance everything was going right

and I still didn't feel like enough

substituting what I used food for with

drinking and with other substance at 21

it all came barreling down on me I hurt

relationships and work I worried the

people that love me and I realized that

I needed to do something and what you do

in that moment government decides what's

going to happen next for you you cannot

think your way in the right acting you

have to act your way into right thinking

is there anything that's really helped

you that you might recommend to someone

listening at home yes so

before this episode starts I have a

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[Music]

having read through your story

extensively it's quite clear to me that

the the most pertinent part of your

story and really like the through line

Begins the sort of dot in that through

line begins with this

Dynamic your parents had

when you were very very young can you

take me back to

1980s in New York to give me the context

that I'll need to understand to

understand the things we're going to

talk about today

sure I I was born in 1986. I uh was born

to a single mom and I never knew my dad

I was sort of the result of a

I guess what you would call a fling

um my mom always says you were a

surprise not an accident so I like the

way she the messaging she's attached to

that but basically my mom and dad knew

each other sort of through business

they had a night

and nine months later came me so sort of

so many different especially now having

two kids of my own knowing how

the process of creating life can be uh

tenuous and random and arbitrary and it

can be incredibly easy or incredibly

hard to know that they were together

once and

it just sort of happened that way is uh

kind of crazy makes you believe like oh

maybe I'm meant to be here at least

that's what I tell myself but yeah I uh

I was the result of that and my mom who

was 43 at the time knew that she'd

always wanted to have a child but wasn't

sure if she ever would

and immediately took it as sort of this

gift and my father who was in his 60s at

the time and had a whole other family

looked at it differently and decided not

to be in my life and I wound up never

meeting him and so

my Origins were very much my mom and I

sort of navigating the world together

I at an early age did you get a feel for

what your mom's your mother's

perspective was on your father did you

did you feel the emotion of that

how her perspective on him

my mom was weirdly unemotional about my

dad

I would say it was

almost like the fog of war or I remember

when I I interviewed Laird Hamilton and

I asked him the very corny cliche

question of when you're on a 90-foot

wave what's going through your head

and he's like you know your body will

sort of give you a bit of Amnesia so I

really can't tell you when you're in

extreme circumstance your body is a way

of like washing your memory and we see

that phenomenon too with like childbirth

right because if those hours during

childbirth really were as strong as as

they are when you are experiencing it

we'd all be only children right but the

brain has a wonderful way of washing

that away so my mom

did a really good job of presenting all

the good qualities of my dad that he was

a great business person that he was

Charming that he was handsome

I you know he was like the Jewish James

Bond walking the streets of New York

this handsome raccoon tour I I say in my

book you know he seemed pretty Sterling

his only sort of negative was that he

really didn't want anything to do with

me

so I think it wasn't until I got older

that my mom sort of elaborated a little

bit more with details

what was that what was the emotion

between you and your mother and the

emotion in the household at the time

growing up only money was tough and

things were slightly difficult

especially because your father had

chosen not to be part of your life but

what was the emotion in your household

you know below the age of 10.

the emotion in my household growing up

if I had to if I had to find a headline

right because sure if you zoomed in on

any moment I could have been

bullied at school or feeling insecure or

feeling less than than my friends who

had traditional family systems or how

come I don't get to experience that

surely there was plenty of that but if

we're talking about a headline of the

first 10 years of my life it was

a very extremely loving childhood

um not without its challenges and we

would sort of oscillate between moments

of of being extremely middle class and

then having not enough money for a slice

of pizza between us but inevitably even

through the struggles we were

there was a level of of comedic relief

you know we were always taking the piss

out of ourselves my mom's a natural

comedian her being a self-made

businesswoman especially in the 70s and

80s when she had to be

uh forced her to be extremely funny and

extremely Savvy and um

sort of puckish about the way in which

she navigated the world and men and

institutions and so I would say that

um most of the time we were laughing

and there were certainly times where we

were we were crying but but it was

mostly laughter when you um when you

talk about your mother is the words you

use will miss make it sound more like a

partnership than a mother-son

relationship it sounds like you were

like

you know partners

certainly we were Partners I mean a

single mom and an only child you are

immediately elevated to co-pilot whether

you like it or not I always say that

traditional families growing up were

more like I viewed them as close

corporations and that kids were

employees and the parents were upper

management and the upper management was

sort of beckoning down orders from the

top and maybe they were seniority

because there was an older sibling but

inevitably everyone sort of had the same

Pace structure and then for my mom and I

we were more like a startup right so one

day I was pitching the clients and she

was sweeping the floors and uh most days

it was the other way around so yeah I

was

I was the man in my mom's life

yeah

did you have any

um

you know when you start talking in your

book about

the pain that you were experiencing that

led you to to food and that you know

ultimately led to bullying and all of

those things what was that pain

well I think

I could make it I'm going to speak

generally

as a reflection of something specific

that went on with me but I I dare I

project that we're all in a certain

level of of pain

um

the veil of adolescence Falls for for

all of us at different times in our

lives where we realize that the world is

unfair or we become more attuned to

where we are not enough in certain areas

and the universe having a beautiful

level of balance it's it's inevitable

right I don't know of any of Tom Brady's

shortcomings but he's got to have one

he's probably hiding it from the world

but

um there's always something that that

for for us is is a challenge or

something that's uncomfortable and I

think you'd be hard-pressed to zoom in

on any kid and especially pre-teen and

teen who doesn't feel like Ultra

sensitive that the world is unfair

wrestling with their place in this world

their identity forming their identity so

for me I just feel like that was

impressed upon me at a really young age

if what's particular to me as I was

really young and uh

I think that was because of the dad

stuff I think that was because I was

overweight so I just knew that life was

going to be more challenging with the

set of circumstances that were at that

point felt like sort of thrust upon me I

didn't know that I was sort of eating in

a

in an unhealthy way I just felt like I

eat fruit snacks like every other kid I

just you know do it

um in an excessive way

so I think that pain was just born out

of

what we all feel is that it hurts to be

different and it hurts to know that life

is going to be challenging

you earlier when you said the word

comedic relief when you're talking about

the relationship with you and your

mother

comedic relief

the word relief almost makes it sound

medicinal like some kind of medicine in

your household what what role did comedy

play in your your early years

a comedy is

for my mom and I it's it's everything

it's everything we loved watching movies

and television together sitcoms and

stand-up comedy

it was a release it was a superpower it

was something that came to both of us

naturally I'm sure as as a byproduct of

my mom's rearing and upbringing and she

even talks about her her dad who I

didn't know my grandfather who sounds

like a pretty deeply imperfect guy but

was a showman and did love to tell jokes

and be funny and a bit of the center of

attention and so

for us it was uh it was a currency it

was something that worked immediately

and it could control the energy of a

room it could endear people to you so

you could really use it to your

advantage but if anything it was a

wonderful distraction

the other thing you describe as a

distraction is um is TV yes you refer to

it as an escape View at that time in

your life

um and you said in your book happy

people are annoying

um that sitcoms were your favorite why

were they your favorite

well sitcoms especially at that time I

talk about how my best friends growing

up were The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air and

Billy Madison and Happy Gilmore and

um

sitcoms had some Universal sort of

qualities in my experience it projected

a healthy family right so it was family

matters it was I guess Full House was

sort of it was a healthy sort of um

non-classic family right because it was

the dad and the uncles but these were

people that these were families that I I

wanted to be a part of

and then there was a Justice to the

comedy in the sense of you didn't have

to interpret it it wasn't objective or

I'm sorry it wasn't subjective it was

objective it was clear what worked and

what didn't it got a laugh and at that

time it was a live studio audience so

you know something Gotta Laugh

and uh

and I would just lose myself in hours of

watching these television shows

and I was absorbing The rhythms and the

qualities through osmosis I didn't even

know it at the time but it also served

as this wonderful escape and

I say that becoming an actor was like

for me going to work for the hospital

that cured my disease you know it felt

like my way of saying thank you for

taking care of me during that time what

was the disease

well I I that's a metaphor but yeah it's

just like sort of a metaphor for my

discomfort for

um having a lot of time on my hands

because I was an only child uh because

my mom had to work a lot to support us

because there was some Financial

insecurity just sort of all of the

discomfort going on in between my ears

um was sort of muted when I was losing

myself in those shows

one of the other things that we've

touched on briefly that you describe in

a

medicinal manner um I think the quote in

your book is actually I didn't know it

at the time but obviously I was

definitely medicating something deep

within

for me when I think about my childhood

the singular powerful and all-consuming

memory that comes to mind as being fat

it wasn't a habit it was a love my first

love

when you're talking about food oh yeah

well that's how you put on the weight

yeah food is great I mean you're a very

fit person but I imagine you're you're a

fan of food I love food everybody does

the whole world does you know it's not

like the biggest food guy who John

Stamos and I don't mean to drop names

here but we did a show together and he's

like you know I could eat a turkey

sandwich and be okay with it like most

days and it's like sometimes I'll forget

to eat and yeah I like a nice meal here

and there but I'm not too absorbed with

it and I'm like I don't identify with

this

you and I are built differently John

well we know we know John Stamos is

built different

um but yeah I mean the whole world's

obsessed with food I was obsessed with

it in a way that led to me being very

overweight

when you say very very of a weight how

much is that in I guess the metric here

is pounds isn't it I can give you kilos

no I can't but what's kilos about two

and a half

pounds 2.2

um you want to do stones I know you're

from the UK pounds

well 14 15 cents yeah I think well like

basically it's funny because I was just

kind of like a normal sized human until

around eight or nine and then I got kind

of chubby and then I put on a lot of

weight but it was only from about 13 to

18 uh where I was about uh 100 pounds

overweight I was about 290 pounds

okay which is 130 kilograms probably and

you're you're in nine or ten you said uh

no I I really put that weight on

probably around nine or ten I was

probably 180 190 but I was only you know

five foot and then as I got a little

bigger and older and also could you know

go to restaurants or grab fast food by

myself I I put on the pounds I've come

to learn over the the years actually

quite recently the um the role the link

between how I feel and how I eat yes you

know I mean there's lots of these links

in our lives you know one of them is how

we feel and money

um how we feel and how we eat

um I'm sure there's many many more but

um these are all like psychological

Tools in many respects and medicinal

tools often was there a point when you

realized that the link between

your relationship with food and how you

were feeling

yeah I mean it came later uh

understanding the nuance and the

correlation but I mean this is why

actors smoke right like traditionally

whenever you see movies where where it's

it's about show business and you see the

actor sort of hanging outside of a Sound

Stage because you do a take you do a

scene you're not sure how it went you

think you were good you hope you know

there was one take that was good but

maybe they're going to use the take kind

of sucked and you're full of emotion and

you're unsure and you're insecure

and there's a table of food waiting for

you right beautiful craft service like

you've never seen hot and cold and then

but instead you're like what can I do to

give me that sort of dopamine hit

without you know giving me the calories

so you know people go outside and smoke

obviously now smoking's not as uh in

fashion so you see less of it but I

remember once I was working with this

actor Paget Brewster she's just a gem

brilliant actor and she played my mom on

this TV show and I I'll never forget

once they were serving pizza as sort of

of like the late night meal

because we're working long hours and

and I remember her pulling the cheese

and like pepperoni off the top of the

pizza and eating it and she just sort of

said this is the actress pizza right

without the bread I was like how

perfectly set right and so yeah I think

we we all run to food because it's

represented to us as this it's a

celebratory thing it's also something

you do when things don't work out

it's a cheat day but like think about

those words right we reward ourselves

with cheating

um right it's a funny sort of corollary

but

um

and it's ubiquitous it's holiday it's

pumpkin spice season at uh at Starbucks

like all of these every great event is

accompanied by a meal even the worst

events right like what do you hope for

after a funeral well there'll be a nice

spread we'll go back and we'll have a

nice spread when you say you were you

were medicating something deep within

it seems like a relationship with food

was a little bit more

um

unique shall I say yeah so I think a lot

of I don't think a lot of people would

say that they

are using food as a way to medicate

something deep within

well they're probably using it it's in

some version of uh to medicate but maybe

not it I I did it in excess right I did

it to an extreme

in an extreme way yes there's a paradox

there which you highlight in your book

where you say that like you're doing it

to ease pain but it caused more pain

which is um I guess is the is the case

with a lot of things where we have a

unbalanced relationship with them where

like there's the short-term reward of

the dopamine hit that you describe but

then the long term punishment is like

the critique right and the self the

self-talk I guess and the the teasing is

you you refer to it in your book hmm

that's you you experience that that the

kind of like short-term pursuit of the

dopamine history short-term pain or um

short-term gain long-term pain yeah yeah

I mean it's a paradox of addiction right

it's it's us running to

I heard it said once someone in in

recovery said my disease lies in my dis

ease

I become uncomfortable and my coping

mechanism the thing that my brain is

trained to do is to go to these things

that numb the feeling uh it's another

great term numb and run you know uh it

numbs the feeling it cauterizes it

temporarily but inevitably it never

deals with the underlying issue so that

continues to grow and push the boulder

up so it requires more and more

medication and thus you know it makes

you more and more unhappy so you know

whether that's food or drug or drink or

smoking sex you know gambling debt

whatever your thing is it's I mean it's

it's just whatever's triggering I would

I would think that dopamine serotonin

sort of response

it's pretty crazy that at like eight

years old you were

already doing stand up yeah that's

that's boggles my mind at eight years

old I was doing nothing productive

I bet you were doing uh probably the

things eight-year-olds should do like

times tables and yeah geography and yeah

stuff like that like kicking a ball

against the wall yeah on my own or with

a friend

you were doing stand up at eight you

know I had a I had I had a couple of

comedians on this podcast and they all

there's this ongoing collect stereotype

that like a comedian is depressed or

something and one of the comedians said

to me that um a better question to ask I

think it was Jimmy Carr he said a better

question to ask is like which one of

your parents were you trying to make

happy ah Jimmy Carr is so fun he's funny

isn't he what a super like he's like a

Jedi he's on another level

sure what parent are you trying to make

happy

what girl are you trying to impress

I just think that we know that most

assets are born out of

feelings of being not enough you know uh

how many great athletes were were

created because they were trying to

impress their fathers right admonishing

fathers help make very ambitious young

men you know and and young women I don't

mean to gender it um

the problem is is the duality of that

because inevitably once hopefully you've

achieved that you realize that there's

no there there that there's no perfect

moment that's going to heal that

relationship with that parent or worse

you don't you don't attain those things

and then you're left to wonder well

what what could it have been and I fell

short I wasn't enough but

comedy is one of those more specific

things because there is there's a

Justice to it

um it's there's not a lot up for

interpretation it's clear

uh it's more like boxing I think Chris

rocket can akin to boxing which is why

they call it a punch line and you know

it's on the cards that punch connected

that one didn't you get a point for that

you don't get a point for this

and

yeah I think it's just born out of you

know being funny usually comes from very

unfunny reasons and you know growing up

and I I don't mean to say this even now

like when I'll I'll meet someone who's

like really uh I'll just name names it's

like and he is funny but it's like

sometimes when I watch Like Ashton

Kutcher go like in a really hard comedy

and he's done some really really funny

things I know this is what you're gonna

clip me like trashing I I want to be

Ashton Kutcher I look up to him I love

you Ashton I'm available for friendship

and I love your wife I love them both

but it's like it's sometimes it's hard

for me to reconcile how someone can be

that gorgeous and handsome and um and

also funny right like sometimes I do

feel like no Funny's got to be reserved

for us you know who who who weren't

necessarily that because yeah it was

used as a defense mechanism

did you know you wanted to be a comedian

or an actor and if so when did you when

did that idea become cemented in your

brain that that's the path you were

going to pursue

being an actor professionally didn't

seem like a reasonable career path

sometimes it still doesn't but here I am

um it was ridiculous I grew up in New

York I'm not a nepo baby I have no

connection to show business other than a

very sticky mother do you know this word

schtick yeah okay you're like I have a

mom who loves a bit and she's a natural

performer it's a beautiful singing voice

but no literally no connections to show

business in any way so it was not

reasonable to think that there would be

any opportunity to do it professionally

and then I was in sixth grade and my mom

and I were having a really tough moment

financially

we're living in an apartment on the east

side of Manhattan it was like a studio

apartment and we would sort of switch

off between the bed and the couch one

night I'd get to bed one night I get the

couch and

and I remember my mom saying you know

there's a performing arts high school

that you should audition for

and I said but I'm gonna go to the high

school in my district like where my

elementary school was

she goes you don't have a district

anymore

we don't live there anymore

and I realized okay well yeah maybe I'll

give this the school a shot because I'm

not going to be in high school now with

my friends who I grew up with

and I auditioned and I went and I got in

and suddenly I'm walking the halls of

this school the professional performing

arts school which is in the Theater

District in New York near Times Square

and

they had alumni like Alicia Keys and

Jesse Eisenberg and Claire Danes

and they were all older than me but all

of a sudden I'm seeing kids who are in

Broadway shows TV shows and they're

studying but they're also successful on

this like grown-up level and it seemed

possible that you could make a living

doing this thing that I loved

so I remember that was the first time

where I had a suspicion like oh this

this might be a long-term gig and

eventually then once I basically once it

became a way out of my circumstance and

it allowed me to sort of contribute to

the family financially I was I was all

in it just seemed like an escape

and you were what age then like 12 16 I

think I was 12 yeah

and then by 16 a chance meeting with

someone from Nickelodeon sends things in

another Direction no that was 12. oh

when you were 12. I used to audition

like every other day

um and Nickelodeon their their Viacom

headquarters was in Times Square I've

been yeah yeah another one yeah and

I auditioned for a movie I got it

they fly me to Canada never been out of

the country now

if you're going to go out of the country

for the first time making Canada because

it's lovely and I'm sitting there one

day in in Calgary Canada

making jokes to some 40 year old guy

with a great laugh and a huge Park up

and my mom Saddles up to me and she goes

you know who that is so you're making

laugh that's

that's the president of Nickelodeon a

guy named Albie hacked you should tell

him that you want to be on all that

which was kind of SNL for kids at that

time it was my dream

so I told them and nine months later he

called and said Josh I'm gonna move you

and your mom out to California to go be

on The Amanda Show which was the

spin-off for Amanda Bynes from all that

and that was

kind of what changed my life and brought

me out to LA and gave me my first TV

show and kind of started this whole mess

this whole mess

ing way to describe it it boggles my

mind that you're doing that at 12. I I

am

I I don't even know how that's possible

for you know it feels like there's a lot

of other things we're meant to be doing

when we're 12. you were you were working

essentially yeah yeah it was

what did you miss did you miss anything

I'm in hindsight a lot I mean you can

speak to a better I don't know what I

didn't miss I mean but you if you had a

more traditional sort of adolescence

right

did you yeah I did yeah yeah yeah so

like school stuff like the prom and

playing football and with the team and

you know Primary School primary school

as well yeah figuring yourself out more

than anything uniforms I wish I went to

school in the UK it seems awesome

yeah it's not bad yeah yeah I loved

Matilda room for improvement um it's

dope it's uh it's such a classic I am

um yeah I I missed out on a lot

absolutely

um

you know it's funny people love this

question it kills me I don't know why

because now I have two sons of my own

and they're always like you got to put

them in Show Business like it's weird I

I don't know why that is I don't know if

people say to lawyers or Carpenters like

is your son gonna hit nails like are you

gonna like read your son depositions

I guess because the idea is that why

wouldn't you want them to and while I

would love for them to if they love

performing to to find some joy in it

my upbringing my circumstance was so

specific

it was inevitable that if this was meant

for me that it was going to be meant for

me and I mean that as

we could move 3 000 Miles because it was

just me and my mom you know we could

uproot our whole life

I I was an overweight kid so I didn't

get a lot of self-esteem from the

traditional systems that people the kids

gain it from but I found this performing

thing so of course my mom goes well I'm

going to nurture this

the way I would if it were little league

or it was an instrument

so my environment my upbringing allowed

for me to go on this really

non-traditional path my kids don't have

that they have a very different

experience they have like a very rooted

household they have a huge family they

have a mom and dad and it's not

necessarily that one's better than the

other but it's just like

their experience will be different and

if when my son's 18 and he's like I want

to go to Juilliard or I want to do it

professionally that's great but maybe

his circumstance won't lend itself to

start that early

it's so interesting yeah but it makes so

much sense you know

that circumstance and struggle are

factors that orientate us towards

um

towards our mission and it's so you know

I I think we often understate how like

trauma and things we'd never wish on a

child end up creating their Brilliance

you think about like the the

Brilliance you've created the work

you've created that is brilliant so much

of it has a through line way back to

things that you would never wish on your

kids yes right

15 years old you start um filming the

pilot for Drake and Josh

one of the things I found really

interesting when I was reading through

your book is one would assume that

such a hit show a show that we all knew

very very well in the UK

off the back of it one would assume that

you'd be like set for life financially

yeah and you write about how that's like

that's that's that was certainly not the

case

yes and I I do want to say that

my first Kids Choice Award was one

at the UK Kids Choice Awards in London

now I had been nominated a lot a lot I

had said sour grapes but allow me to

continue I was not

properly appreciated for my work

in the American Kids Choice Awards but

it took you brilliant

people in the United Kingdom to

appreciate my my my overweight but

wonderfully comedic work as a young

actor so I want to thank you

um

yeah I

I think look I'm so pleased to talk

about this stuff with you someone who's

like has wonderful insight into the book

and and is interested and it felt like

the book for me was sort of like

I don't I I really I don't do a lot of

this anymore and because the book felt

like sort of a chapter ending in my life

it was me editorializing my life it was

commenting on the things that I felt

were perhaps misunderstood or didn't

have enough clarification or description

and also in an effort unknowingly to

sort of say like and now I'm not I'm

going to talk about it less and if

someone is interested like they can you

know read the book and it's it's now you

know in the the Library of Congress but

and so to that point I felt the need

because over the years people would

either say it in a cheeky way like oh

well you don't have to worry because of

the residuals or they would see just

something random like you know it would

actually

be part of decision making or something

that it would apply to me they're like

well Josh doesn't have to worry and I

was like well I'm not complaining but

I'm I'm as much you know worried about

next year's financial status as anyone

else because I don't have that security

so yeah with Drake and Josh there was no

residuals and kids CV didn't have that

at that time and

I got really honest and I sort of broke

it down because Ryan holiday my friend

and sort of advisor on the book was like

if you don't it's he's like it's gross

to talk about money but if you don't

actually give a a sort of exact picture

of what it was then people won't

understand and so I sort of talk about

that

you know while doing the show we made

about a hundred thousand dollars a year

for the four years we were making it

which is great money in a lovely middle

class lifestyle but no one would assume

that once you stop working that you

never had to work again so I just wanted

to give some clarity to that to sort of

explain the choices that I made after

and why I was so passionate about

finding more work because I um I had

some people to take care of

makes perfect sense and I think it's

really important context because

um you're right it's very easy when you

don't know entertainment contracts

especially for for a young person that's

15 odd years old to assume that they

made millions and millions in perpetuity

from that piece of work and then a lot

of the the decisions and the choices

they're after don't have are lacking in

context yeah when I read that it was

like I understood of course if you make

a hundred thousand dollars in the United

States living in California whatever it

is for five years in a row you do need

to go back to work and yeah after Drake

and Josh ended was there was there like

a pivotal moment where you realized that

that show was big

um it wasn't until much later funny

enough I am

I think because when we were making it

it was only popular with kids who were

sort of younger who I didn't other than

if I was at a mall or at a theme park I

didn't have a huge amount of uh

interaction with and then I would say

that the the power of the show

to its credit was that it was slightly

Timeless because it had a very sort of

classic through line of any sitcom it

was about a family

and a lot of kids shows can be more

Fantastical and have more of a Sci-Fi

bent or something more fantasy or

whimsical this was just like very

straight down the line two brothers who

are very different trying to get along

uh and an evil little sister so because

of how much it was rerun

more Generations would come to the show

and these people grew up so it wasn't as

though it was this moment in time it was

every year we were picking up new fans

because there was what 60 episodes or

something yeah just like there was so

much more I know it's weird why is that

I guess reruns yeah it played for so

long over the last couple of how long

maybe four months I've been changing my

diet shall I say many of you have really

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will know why I've sat here with some

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after Drake and Josh ended and as you go

into you're like you you know the next

chapter of your life 18 years old you

lose a lot of weight I do

a lot of weight

127 pounds yeah

how how does that's not an easy feat

how does that happen

I certainly made a decision that I was

ready to do it

um I think I just I always knew that I

was going to do it and also in writing

the book it's

when you put pen to paper

and I know you're a writer yourself it's

amazing how these I feel as though we

make these um everything in our brain is

sort of shorthand right it's like these

picture memories that are connected uh

and sometimes they're connected by these

really strong connections and sometimes

it's just like short little hits but

when you're forced to actually explain

it on a page it makes you look at it

differently and I was like wow I was

only heavy from like

13 to 17. of course they're the years

that have been enshrined in television

history forever so it feels much bigger

but had I just been like a normal kid I

would have burned my yearbooks and sworn

my family to secrecy and I'd never bring

it up so

I think it was a number of things I was

ready I think naturally like my body was

ready to let go of it and I just knew

that I

I felt like because I was so insecure

I had missed out on a lot of my teenage

years

um it wasn't without lack of opportunity

to go out and and be a knucklehead and

experience life I just didn't want to do

it because I didn't love the body that I

was in so I felt like if I didn't if I

didn't act now I was going to lose some

really important years

is there is there a process that helped

because I'm thinking about how you

referred to it as being like medicinal

your relationship with food and that's

like deeply psychological so to like

append that deep psychological force or

that relationship with food there's no

easy feat so like what what's the

process is it therapy is it what that

that makes your that kind of appends

that psychological force or replaces it

or

I think it was I I had been I've I've

had a therapist that that I've gone to

since I was 15 and and I still see here

and there so my mom kind of knew I think

she saw it in me early on that there was

just a lot going on be it my dad or the

weight stuff and then I think I would

just

in the way that that change is born you

know pain is a great motivator I was

sort of sick and tired of being sick and

tired and I I knew that I had to let go

of something I don't think I knew

exactly what it was but if I'm looking

back at it now it was like it was this

anger it was anger at my my dad it was

anger at my circumstance and

I just remember I was 17 years old my

mom and I would drive back to New York

every year for like two months and we

would just go and see family and hang

out in the city

and I just started to walk

and up until then I would do these

really intense you know attempts at keto

or

these extreme diets on a Monday and I

would fail by Wednesday morning and then

it would be back on again but this time

I said I'm just going to try to make a

small change every day

and I would walk the city for miles and

I would listen uh to music and I would

dream of what my life could be

and I started eating better and slowly

but surely that summer I lost like 40

pounds and then over the next year I

lost another 40 and then over the next

year I lost another 40. in chapter five

of your book you say you had a new body

but the exact same self-hating mind

one would assume that you know dropping

127 pounds one would naively assume that

dropping 127 pounds would

would make you feel different about

yourself yeah

well it's um

to sort of the themes that you've

mentioned throughout this interview it's

it's cause and effect right like I dealt

with the effect but I didn't deal with

the cause and unfortunately there were

some issues at play there were some

um unresolved pain and work that needed

to be done that I wasn't even aware of

but it was all at play Under the surface

so when I no longer had that thing that

was helping to sort of keep those

feelings at Bay they reared their head

and I needed to find something else I

didn't know that it was going to be in

the form of uh you know drinking and and

sort of uh alcohol's cousins but I uh

I just knew that when I finally did find

those things and I did sigh that bit of

relief that I'd been looking for I I

think there was even a moment in that

first night when I went out with some

other kids my age and really tied one

off and thought I was having like a

proper teenage time I remember this this

voice in my head being like oh this is

it like this is what we've been looking

for

um drinking

yeah the drinking and drugs and I I I I

think I see something in the book of

like if you've been carrying this

invisible bag of stones around your

whole life a weight vest with 50 to 100

extra pounds I mean I quite literally

was but let's just say it's like

emotional weight vest and

eventually you almost forget that it's

on you just know your knees hurt

you know you're exhausted it's like why

am I so tired why did why does why do

things feel tougher for me than it does

for my friends

and then if in an instant that weight

vest is lifted off of you and your knees

hurt less and you're walking around and

you're like oh

you wouldn't question it you just be

like whatever just took that weight vest

off I'm in and that's that was the

reaction that I had

such an interesting analogy

the the weight vest you know you said

the term self-hating mind

for someone that hasn't experienced a

self-hating mind what is what is that

like in detailed reality

is it literally thoughts that you can

recall that are saying

being pessimistic hmm

I I probably if I could um

edit my book now I would be probably

less um

I'd be less revealing no I would

I would be less

um I would be a little harder on myself

and say I

it's self-centered if we're talking

about the root of it I remember when I

got in when I got sober people would say

you're self-centered and I would say

self-centered that's reserved for people

who think highly of themselves that's

reserved for the quarterbacks the models

the good looking the self-absorbed

people to me felt

when you would see that in movies it was

someone who was staring in the mirror

and perfecting their hair and they would

say no if you spend all your time

thinking about how great you are or how

you are all you're thinking about

is you and you are self-centered it

doesn't matter whether it's great or bad

so

I wouldn't yeah I would substitute

self-hating with self-centered I was

obsessed with self

my trauma was real my challenges were

real and that played a part in it but I

was just so wrapped up in

my feelings of feeling less than an

uncomfortable and not proverbially not

at the cool table that

um

I you know found myself in a place to

numb my my feelings because those

thoughts were were unrelenting

Nothing in life nothing in life is free

and so even a temporary lifting of the

weight vest comes with a long-term cost

as we talked about with food what was

that that long-term cost of temporarily

getting to lift the weight vest once in

a while

I just became a cliche quick I I heard

relationships and work I worried the

people that loved me I I just started to

accrue a lot of wreckage quickly it's

it's funny I interviewed Hillary Duff on

my podcast

um Good Guys the other day and we made a

joke I was asking her about like

um

we were she brought up something about

like oh I love an alcoholic beverage and

she kind of looked at me and said sorry

Josh and I was like no I love an

alcoholic beverage too unfortunately

whenever I drink it leads to my other

favorite beverage Percocet

which is a very popular painkiller in

this country

um

and I remember people sort of

saying like they were so sort of they

just didn't know sort of my

um they they didn't know that part of my

history right so it was something that I

it was this thing that I was sort of

navigating and balancing kind of how

much I would sort of

talk about it and and uh and reveal and

then also sort of this this balancing of

like the things that I also wanted to

keep private

when did you realize that that you had a

a problem with alcohol or an unhealthy

relationship with alcohol and drugs was

there a because at the time I imagine

you don't

the first time you do it you don't know

it's not a problem then is it but at

some point you must have maybe got some

feedback or something indicated that

this was not

oh and I'm sorry I forgot the point I

was trying to make with the Hillary

thing but oh someone wrote a comment on

that clip and that video said damn Josh

Peck got sober at 21 he really went for

it so to answer your follow-up question

yeah I mean I think that

I basically was

substituting what I used food for

with these you know with with drinking

and with other substance but it was all

sort of connected so it wasn't this

four-year run it was really like since I

was 9 or 10 years old it just was again

validating and reconfirming this idea of

like you overdo things

and nothing is going to fill up this

hole in the soul no matter what you try

to fill it with and even like the things

that our

um

World tells us is a value even success

isn't going to do it even if girls like

you it's not enough and so I remember at

21 having a moment like that when it all

sort of came

sort of barreling down on me and I

realized that I needed to do something

now I think people have those moments

and they don't do anything and they lose

another four years or five or ten or

Twenty

um but I do think the world and life

catastrophe challenging circumstance

some version of a bottom whatever you're

going through being fired from something

a health scare has a way of temporarily

waking you up and what you do in that

moment

um

decides what what's going to happen next

for you

you said that happened for you at 21

years old was that was that in the wake

of the film The whackness it was yeah

that was certainly a moment tell me

about that moment well again I I had

accrued plenty of wreckage but I

remember I

I had done this movie The whackness that

I was extremely proud of with my

favorite actor sir Ben Kingsley you know

and I mean literally my favorite actor

like getting a you know have my rookie

season with Michael Jordan and

and it went to the Sundance Film

Festival and I was so proud and we got a

standing ovation and it just felt like

such a confirmation for me as an actor

that there was going to be that that

there was going to be opportunity and

there was

there was more to come for my career

that it wasn't just this sort of anomaly

that I did this one show and that that

was sort of gonna be it

but I remember in that moment

all those similar feelings

that mind that had gotten me in trouble

so many times before was still yelling

at me and all those feelings were

flooding in they weren't there the night

we got they weren't there during the 90

seconds of the Sandy Innovation they

weren't there

you know when I was smiling in front of

the camera but they were there when I

got home they were there when I got in

bed they were there when I was waiting

in line for a coffee the next morning or

whatever else I was doing so it was like

so short-lived

and it just confirmed this idea of like

oh like even at your best even when

everything's kind of going right because

it's easy to use when when life throws

you challenges there's a reason to sort

of

you know co-sign your bad behavior

but everything was going right and I

still didn't feel like enough and I knew

at that point that I needed to make a

change or or

I might never do it

that next day off to the standing

ovation at the Sundance Film Festival

you talk about you know how you might

have felt standing in the coffee line or

the next day when you woke up Etc is

this are they are these specific

thoughts or is it just an emotional

state

is it just like a lowness

it's totally emotional and it's

ugly like the way like how we're all

pitiful in those moments I I don't think

you have to be

um suffer from addiction or it's just

like when we realize that our way isn't

working anymore and a change needs to

occur and

so yeah I I certainly it's taken 15 16

years to

articulated correctly I think it was

just the feeling you you your solution

to that feeling appears to be you know

when when you hit that proverbial Rock

Bottom moment

um to be getting some help and that's

where you turn to AAA Alcoholics

Anonymous hmm

what what is that Pro like what is what

is Alcoholics Anonymous and like how how

did it help you

turn things around and get sober

well you know it's sort of in the name

Anonymous that there's there's an

anonymity portion to it so I I I always

want to make sure it said that I'm in no

way sort of a representative or

Ambassador for it in any way it's just

how I have found a way in which to get

and stay sober over the last 15 years is

through through uh 12-step program and

it's just a way it's it's ancient truths

um repackaged to make sense to a guy

like me it's the best way it helps to

mitigate the worst of my Character

defects and it's just age-old

um it's just a sort of for me

an age-old way of of cleaning up your

past and and looking at bad patterns and

habits in my life and making amends and

trying to implement things that through

history we have known to work gratitude

surrender acceptance

if you want self-esteem do a steamable

acts restrain a pen and tongue you know

just like

um

you know it's not you know your higher

power is up to you as long as you know

that you're not God that one's a that

one's helpful it just presented some

ways in which for me to to apply things

to my life that helped me to to get and

stay sober so I think if if the efficacy

wasn't there if I didn't see quickly

that I started to feel better then maybe

I would have sought a different way this

this was a way that happened to work for

me

and you've been sober for some what 13

13 years 15 15. recently yeah just uh

February 15th congratulations thanks it

works for me yeah it's an incredible

incredible

um achievement you know everyone's got

their own relationship with with alcohol

and whatever else but it's always

incredible to hear

um someone being able to

turn a corner in the direction they

wanted to turn it it's the best way I

can describe it thank you 2013.

you kind of start from reading your book

it sounds like you start on a new a New

Journey and that's the journey to

understand who your father is you're 27

at this point so almost 30 years old and

your father passes away

um and you make the decision at that

point having not met him before and

having not seen a picture of him until

you were 24 years old to figure out who

he was hmm what did you learn about him

and how did that change your perspective

of him

well I remember I'd always sort of toyed

with this idea of meeting him and yet I

think I knew deep down I never would

because

my creation of him

in my head the way that I sold him to my

friends or or the way I would portray

him to people felt like my weird Cosmic

consolation prize like I don't get to

have him in any way but I can present

him to people in the way in which I

choose not that I was telling people

that my dad was you know the first man

on the moon or anything like that it

just was like you know my mom knew that

he was

that he was Jewish and that he was

Sephardic which is

um a type of Jew that tends to be from

either the Middle East or from Morocco

or or French or or can be South America

Mexican and and so for me I would just

like Ping Pong where he was from you

know sometimes he was from Spain

sometimes he was from Israel sometimes

he was from like I just would kind of

present it as I so fit and and it felt

like if I ever met him well then I I

lost Stephen the illusion or this

creation of my dad that I wanted to make

so I but when I found out that he passed

away it also felt like a little bit of

this thing that I've been carrying

around this emotional grenade that I

could you know I had the power in the

sense that I could show up and he had

this whole other family and these grown

kids and a wife and if I wanted to at

will I could blow that up for him if in

theory he never had told them anything I

was never going to do it but it was nice

to know right like whatever version my

head was telling me like to keep me warm

at night so when he passed away I was

like oh damn he won right perfect record

like he set his mind to something and he

stuck to it he's like I'm never gonna

meet that kid and he did it and I never

got that moment to sort of say like how

dare you I don't know if it would have

been that probably wouldn't have been it

probably would have been like hey I'm

your kid what's up like do you want to

get a coffee

um

but you know all of that was sort of

taken away from me so I felt

I felt pissed that I had to mourn this

guy that I never knew

and

that I was mourning like morning is

in theory sort of the worst part of it's

sort of the other side of love right

it's that the gift is you get to love

and the Embrace of someone and then what

comes with that is that eventually if

they're not here anymore you have to

mourn them you have to mourn what was I

was like there was nothing like and I

still have to get the crappy side of

this doesn't seem fair

but it forced me to do something that

inevitably led to my men's and my amends

that I gave myself which was I randomly

looked up uh his kids on Facebook

my friend figured out a way to my friend

a buddy of mine basically

was looking with me and was like oh I

there was a connection between him and

my sister they had attended a similar

like Workshop or some kind of like

education program he's like maybe under

the guise of that I could become her

friend and like then you know I could

see if on her profile she has any photos

to your dad I had never seen what he

looked like

she accepts it and I am immediately

given this like Treasure Trove of photos

of his life

and I'm seeing him at their bar mitzvahs

and and weddings and all these events

and I'm seeing these beautiful tributes

said his friends and family are making

to him after he passed away

and it made me realize that like what my

dad was for me wasn't the only part of

him

you know it certainly was a real part of

him but he also was this great dad just

not to me

and that's not

uh valid there are that's not not valid

that's um

that's a part of this imperfect man so

it like gave me a little bit of

forgiveness for this guy

and it made me realize that he was

probably scared and he had probably had

this great perfect record with his

family and then this blemish occurred

and he did the best that he could so in

a weird way seeing that he was good to

them

made me a little more okay that maybe he

wasn't great to me and and then of

course having the son of my own and

being the dad to my two boys now uh that

I wish my dad was for me was sort of

like the ultimate amends to

eight-year-old Josh

what's that Journey been like you know

from I almost view it as like a

an emotional Journey on like some kind

of like graph or something almost like a

roller coaster from when you were young

to where you are now in terms of the

perspective of your father and the

relationship you know was there was

there resentment at one point you seemed

to have gotten to a better place with it

now yeah but what's that Journey like

the resentment I think at its at its

highest is uh showcased in me being 100

pounds overweight right or you know my

struggles after that I I think that was

certainly

um it was all that resentment and anger

and frustration and unexplored feelings

presenting itself

as as whatever that was as those

addictions right they were in the

manifestation of a deeper issue they

were a symptom of a deeper issue I was

just pondering because I've I know

people that haven't had a relationship

with their father obviously nothing is

definitively causal like it doesn't

necessarily mean you can attack any

other way but um one of the the trends

you tend to hear about is when is that

connection between not believing you're

enough and your father not being around

are they connected for you like the the

do you know what I mean I'm saying does

the absence of your father did that ever

leave a thought that said he left but

you know that means I'm not enough

because he chose not to be here

it must right I I don't see how it

couldn't be right but what we what I've

also learned in Being Sober this song

and hearing a lot of other people's

experiences it my

um my story my feelings are not rare

but they're not a monolith they're not

singular yeah I've heard plenty of

stories of people who had like pretty

idyllic uprightings and they just happen

to suffer from this thing where they do

too much and this particular mental bend

that makes them look at life or makes

them seek out a way of numbing their

feelings so what I know now is that

certainly I think you're right it it was

part of my story but it's it's not the

only way I I think I've kind of grown in

that Trend in my mind has grown a little

bit because I spoke to gabo mate who's

there's a lot of childhood trauma stuff

and one of the things he said is that as

children we're narcissists I've never

been able to forget that and we think

everything is about us so right if you

know if the father leaves for example

instead of thinking well that's because

he has another family or because he's

scared or whatever it's that's about me

when you when you're younger

um and then you as you say you had your

own boy yes

now two boys crazy

two boys you have kids not yet I could

tell because you're in such good shape

were you scared to become a father

because of your own terrified

because I I just didn't I didn't have

any work-life experience yeah

um I just didn't know look I'm I'm a

mute I'm a I'm a formerly chubby musical

theater kid from New York like I don't I

never thought anything that was

masculine I never thought I had the

prerequisites for that that was like

inherently dudeish like I've always been

like a guy like I love boxing like I've

always broke down I've always you know

had all those inherent qualities but

those things that felt felt like

presentationally Macho or dude-esque I

was just like oh I don't I don't have

that and uh and so yeah I wanted to have

a girl and then when my son was born my

wife and I didn't find out the sex and

so you know at nine months and nine

months and a couple days when the doctor

was like what is it Josh and I got to

announce to the room like it's a boy

I was like oh of course because it was

required for me you know my life turned

into

man school you know especially in

sobriety

I had to learn and and I don't mean to

make it this blanket a definition I for

me what it meant to be a man and the

qualities that I had had to sort of

accrue the things that no matter how

great my mom was couldn't give me

because she was just limited by what one

person can do the things that I learned

from my big brother Dan I've had a big

brother in in the states we have the big

brother Foundation

I've had a big brother since I was eight

years old and things that I learned from

him and then eventually my father-in-law

who I really look up to and all the

great men in my life and all these these

assets these tools that I had learned

you know when I had my son Max I was

like okay here's my opportunity now to

implement that and see everything that

I've collected what I can give him and

uh it just felt perfect it felt like

God's way of like having a laugh and be

like you you knew this was going to

happen right

you married Paige yes you had they teach

your wonderful children

um

I had a guest on the podcast quite

recently who said who described somewhat

of a similar upbringing where the father

wasn't around and him and his mum acted

almost like pilot and co-pilot and he

one of the terms he said to me I can't

remember it was something something

ancestral or something I know that

sounds strange but it was something to

do with the fact that when you have such

a close relationship to your partner to

your mother and they end up

indirectly or unadvertently offloading

some of the emotional energy around the

parent that's not there it can make your

own personal relationships difficult

yeah can you relate

I can accept that I think that everyone

is bad at relationships and I think just

like I believe that even if you have a

perfect parental structure we will

self-parent there's always going to be

gaps in our rearing there's always going

to be

spots that were missed as a result of

your upbringing and your circumstance in

the way in which you've experienced life

up to a certain point and it's incumbent

on you to fill in those gaps that's

growing up right to even know what those

gaps are yes right what for you what

were those gaps you had to fill in well

I think it was with the dad stuff it was

about in relationships up into my wife

I had this like I would call it like the

Tony Montana approach to life which was

like if anything went wrong if there was

any sort of adversity or any kind of I

mean at this point right like I'm I've

dealt with the dad stuff and then I've

been in Showbiz till you know since I

was 10 right which is the ultimate

rejection right you're you're being

you're going on a job interview at best

even if you're on a TV show

you're interviewing for a job

once or twice a year and if you are an

out of work actor you're you're

interviewing for a job four times five

times a month sometimes more during

pilot season right so you really have to

calcify or uh calcified yeah like you

have to become uh callous to rejection

it's like if you ever talk to a doctor

like about death they have a very

interesting bet on it because they can't

be overly emotional about it because

it's a part of their job

so

until this point in relationships if

anything went South I just would go this

is a preview of more bad to come this

isn't natural Growing Pains this isn't

natural

um discourse or or just like the natural

arguments that you get in and then you

get through them and you become closer I

would just go this was great I'll be

fine without you thanks and I would just

go leaving people in my wake to be like

what the hell happened how did you

reverse that's the point that you were

able to find someone and get married

luckily

I was in a state of doing the work I was

willing to be I was not doing that

specific work but in general because I

was in a recovery program because my mom

had put good people around me and

because I had done therapy since I was a

kid I like knew I was self-aware enough

to know like oh there's there's

certainly work to be done here but it

wasn't until I had a woman like my wife

in my my life who taught me a better way

who came from a family that doesn't

leave and she reiterated that so when we

get in these fights and I would look at

her and be like so I guess we should

call it

like this was great right she'd be like

what like no like

I'm not going anywhere and neither you

and we can be mad at each other we can

be mad we can go to bed mad I love that

and people go you don't go to bed man

I'm like I don't know not in my

experience like you can go to bed you're

gonna be mad for a couple days usually

it doesn't last that long no one wants

to be that pissed that long but it's

like but when we work this out I'll be

here because I'm not going anywhere

because my siblings never went anywhere

my mom and dad never went anywhere like

we stick around through the good and the

bad and that was a revelation for me

I can so relate in so many ways I have

the same avoidant attachment stuff for

various reasons and then I met a person

I always say that like God over the wall

you know like yeah you know and changed

you from the inside

um definitely so I can totally totally

relate that's why you have to have a

that's why if if it's for you you have

to have a kid because in my experience

and I say it in the book you don't we

all work on ourselves and especially

with

incredible podcasts like this and we're

in the age of optimization and

self-realization and everyone's

listening to a dozen podcasts at a time

and wants to be their best version of

themselves and that's great but we can't

be Faberge eggs right like we can't be

these perfect pristine things and then

we get jostled around a bit by life and

we shatter and so to me I think there's

only so much work you can do on your own

and then it has to be like applied into

life and then you put some skin in the

game and you get in a relationship and

that forces you to go deeper and you're

like I don't want to and they're like

well you better otherwise this thing's

not gonna work but you meet someone of

value and you do the work and it reveals

itself to be worth it and it gives you a

deeper understanding and then once you

guys get really perfect you throw a kid

in the mix and that little jerk makes

you go even deeper and work even harder

and become even more selfless hopefully

and less self-centered and again new

truths are revealed in new ways of

living are revealed so yeah on all the

things we've talked about today the the

mental talk the voice in your head the

feelings of

um you know quote-unquote self-hatred

self-esteem happiness where where are

you as you sit here today on that

Journey

I I'm I'm in a wonderful place my life

you know is a reflection of

how do I say it my life is is that of a

good man's

now I I say that not in like some big

self-congratulatory way but I just did

the things that I was told to do by

people whose life I wanted

you know I surrounded myself with the

people who weren't telling me the things

I wanted to hear but their life looked

attractive and it wasn't because they

had a nice car or they had an impressive

job those things don't hurt but it was

because they seemed deeply decent that

they had a good spiritual life and that

they were good partners there were good

Fathers there were good sons and that

was attractive to me so I implemented

that into my life on a regular basis and

the byproduct of that was a really good

life that I'm completely overpaid to

have today

um and I still just as much as I say I

rarely wake up in the morning in the

mood for a salad

I usually want french toast I wake up in

the morning most times it's usually not

the morning I am a morning person it's

usually at four eight four a.m at night

or 2 A.M or five in the afternoon when

I'm over tired and I had too much sugar

when my mind starts going just remember

it's all going to be bad you know that

right

but I have tools you know I have ways in

which of dealing with that

to get out of those thoughts to break

that bad cycle

um so it's just the voices are never

gone but the volumes turn down

I have to ask you've got one last

question here in the diary that the last

guest has left for you but when you said

you have tools I was compelled because I

know that there's someone at home who

can completely relate and they're sat

there thinking Josh what are the tools

is there anything that's really helped

you sort of turn down the volume on that

that you might recommend to someone

listening at home

I would just say and um my friend John

AKA Wheels

um

his motto was action is the magic word

and you cannot think your way in the

right acting you have to act your way

into right thinking

and I always felt like

I'm reasonably articulate and I've you

know I've prided myself on having what I

thought was like a good mind I gotta be

able to think my way out of this thing

like I have to be able to impress my

will on this thing and wrestle it to

death like I I just can't believe it and

it's the duality of these things because

didn't I get myself this far

didn't mean taking my life and my will

into my hands didn't I get all this

success and notoriety and blah blah blah

and it's like well there was a part of

it that that but maybe you got that in

spite of it you know maybe the truth is

is that these things you know it they

need to be governed they need to be

throttled because inevitably

they'll pervert they will they'll ruin

you know that I just learned this they

say a couple bad apples but the next

part of that is a couple bad apples

ruins the barrel

right so it's like I have to be careful

with those thoughts and those feelings

because they can ruin everything

so what I would say is when when I take

the action to get out of self

when I become in service to others when

I do some reading when I listen to a

great podcast like this about people who

are Seekers who are trying to better

themselves if you take the action

something will change if you sit and you

try to wrestle it in my experience it'll

it'll never work

the question left for you

who is the one person in your life that

deserves the greatest thanks

and if you were to give them the thanks

today what would you say

well I

I I almost don't want to because it it

almost like because she loves she loves

her flowers but yeah I gotta give it to

my mom it all starts and ends with my

mom and we have a deeply imperfect

relationship because we're two deeply

imperfect people but at its core she did

more than I could have ever imagined and

especially being a father and seeing

what how challenging it can be with all

the help in the world and she did it all

by herself and I just give her all the

credit in the world so much of why I'm

here today is because of her so thanks

Mom I hope you don't watch this but

thank you I love you Josh thank you so

much it's been a an honor to meet you

and learn about your story and um I'm a

big following out of your YouTube

channel so please do post a lot more

because it's enjoyable to watch you

bring an important energy to the world

and your book is one of the most

vulnerable revealing but wisdom-laced

books I've had the privilege of of

reading in my research for a podcast

wait I recommend everybody to go grab a

copy I love the title happy people are

annoying

um it's a truly important book Thank you

Josh

as you might know the show's now

sponsored by Airbnb absolutely love

Airbnb always have always been a you

know saved my life on so many occasions

and my team when we first got in touch

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Airbnb their entire homes when they're

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whenever I left New York my place was on

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sometimes for a day sometimes for two