I'm in a room listening to everything go

on and just hoping she's alive that was

the hardest night ever

140 cups three World Cups four European

championships and 12 International goals

Alex Scott

always allowing me that platform to see

things learn things about the world that

I know was making me even more hungry

and to keep that I needed to keep doing

well at football

and couldn't speak growing up because of

a speech impediment how did that impact

your life there's certain things I I

just can't say but it's almost I found a

habit of just laughing at myself before

everyone else laughs at me here I am

getting nothing but pure hate death

threats and abuse I can't do this

anymore

my dad had this dark side so my

protection was to try and love my dad

all I can and all those darkness and the

demons will go

did that work

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scared they could ruin my Dad's life

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foreign

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we sit here in East London today yeah

and your story starts in East London as

well

take me right back to

to East London when you grew up in

some when was that 1980 Something 84 84

yeah take me back

well instantly even when you say East

London I'm smiling

because I have so many happy memories

and the feeling that it gave me a sense

of community everyone looking after you

even though it's surrounded by struggle

and hardship it makes me smile

East London instantly I can go to

playing in the football cage because

that football cage was a freedom for me

it was an out it was an escape it

allowed me that football cage allowed me

to start dreaming of a world that I

don't know that I never thought that I'd

be able to see or imagine but in that

space it gave me that when was the first

time you'd watched a football match how

did football come into your life

I don't actually even remember sitting

down to watch a football game on TV

because both my mum and dad they weren't

athletes so it's not a thing that would

sit down and watch a football match but

in that area that I grew up in that

football cage was everything it was the

community it was where people came

together and I think that's how I got

into football and that's what I liked it

gave me that connection to other people

so for me it wasn't dreaming that you

know I wanted to play football be a

professional footballer that wasn't it

at all it was a sense of a safe space in

that football cage and feeling at one

with everyone else in the neighborhood

escapism a safe space

why was that a safe space

a safe space

from a home environment

the football cage

was fun

I could smile you felt free

and then home

it was like

I was locked in

it was

an environment where it was very much

controlled

controlled by your father

yeah

tell me about your mother and father

my mom

a woman that is

an incredible person

full of love

full of softness

and just a light around her

that wants to do everything for everyone

before herself doesn't even think about

herself you know doesn't even see the

person that she is

because ultimately that was taken away

from her

my dad

even though I see the love in my dad I

wanted to love my dad so much I was a

daddy's little girl

but he had this dark side

and that's the side that we saw our

lives growing up

when was the first time you you recall

seeing your father's dark side

I can't put in an age to it to be honest

but I was there

mostly what I can always remember

that you saw this love inside

and I I always say the drink but

obviously the drink helps it come out a

lot more

but I just you could see him turn like

he's thought so what he was going

through in his mind

that's how he took it out on I'd say all

of us more so my mum

but yeah

it was just for me it was just sad

because I could see this good in my dad

that was there

when he smiled when he was listening to

music and that's the side I just always

wanted to see and was begging to to stay

there but it wasn't

in that home was you your brother and

your mum yeah

these memories how old were you when you

started having these memories about this

other side of your father

well he left when I was seven

so from the moment

from a baby from two three

I could see and feel you can feel it the

environment that we're in that you're

not allowed to do something because if

you do step out of line you know what's

going to happen and you don't want that

to happen

what's gonna happen

when my mum would go through

the terror

the helplessness that you can't do

anything

this is yeah

so you're living in fear

you're living in fear every single

moment

and so high then the football cage

becomes your Escape

for me

did you did you want to go home

after school after

yeah

owners go home to protect my mum

I wanted to go home

to put a shield around her

to be strong for her

even though she was doing the same for

me and my brother

but it's like you wanted to protect

someone but how can I

I can't

so my protection was to try and love my

dad

all I can

to keep trying to bring that side out of

him if he has the love then maybe he'll

start loving us in that way and all

those darkness and the demons will go

did that work no

no

he swear because I sit here with you and

then say it is dark and straight away

it's hard for me to talk about

because I suppose I've hid it for all

this time

it's easy not to talk about it

but even though there's so much Darkness

there's so much I remember the good

times with my dad I remember going to

the record shops and buying vinyls and

coming back and dancing my Dad loved his

music I love my music because of that

so there's so many things that

yeah even though all those dark times I

know because of everything that I've

gone through I am the person I am now

you have to take the good bits and the

bad bits and it's what makes me me

you said earlier that your mother had

been she'd had her personality or the

the goodness taken from her alluded to

the fact that it was taken from her

what do you mean by that

because every single day

you see my mum walking on eggshells

she's scared to have a voice to say

something because she knows what she's

going to go through

so that light that is around her and the

woman that she has been that outgoing

personality that you know everyone loves

my mum she doesn't see that because it's

been stripped

she views herself as a coward

where

as much as I try and tell her

she doesn't see herself like that

she's a coward for staying with my dad

for those years for not leaving earlier

for her kids

so as much as

we see errors

an amazing woman she doesn't see herself

like that one bit still today it's still

today

still today

she's she's scared with my book coming

out because I finally told that story

she scared that her friends are gonna

look at her in a certain way

like I said she calls herself a coward

where I had to see the woman

that's so full of Courage and the

strength and the vulnerability that

she's shown her whole life for us for me

and my brother

in the book you you talk about two Vivid

memories you have of that time and one

of them being the day your mother did

speak back to your dad at a joint

birthday party yeah yeah

do you still remember that day yeah

yeah what happened that day

Steven we had the most amazing birthday

party it's hard because there's not many

things that we've celebrated or those

moments and I don't even know how this

party came about whether it's for me and

my brother or is my dad throwing a party

because he was a big character

you know everyone loved Tony Scott he

had this way about him

um but we ended up having a birthday

party in the local community me and my

brother and just yeah the music everyone

was dancing and that's where you I could

see my mum

you know she was the life and soul of

the party just her energy was so

infectious and then party then ended in

the community center we went back to the

flat where I grew up in

and then it was just exactly it's a tone

that I know all too well

that no one else knows apart from me my

brother and my mum when he asked her to

go and get some lemonade

she was in the middle of a conversation

so a natural no totally you get your

lemonade

and it was that icy tone when he

repeated it and she said no again

it's hard because I'm looking at you but

I can see

I can see so yeah

then straight away I know what's coming

as soon as everybody leaves that night

he doesn't forget

so then

we all know what's going to happen

my mum might have been brave enough and

forgotten that moment because she's

having fun she's having a conversation

with her friend

that was the hardest night that one

you know the thing about the book

is we've never had the conversations

so my mum

is trying to survive

for her kids

and then I'm in a room

listening to everything go on and just

hoping she's alive

but she doesn't know

what me and my brother are doing

or feeling

until I've wrote the book

in those moments did you speak to your

brother about it no

you talk about being awake at night

hearing what your father's doing to your

mother

and never knowing if your brother was

laid there thinking and feeling and

hearing the same things

you never looked over at him never spoke

to him about it

yeah

he was in the Next Room I had a little

box room that was everything

and then as there's a silence the next

day

you're not allowed to speak until you've

spoken to that's the environment we've

grown up in

so all you have is a look or trying to

catch a Feeling

and our feeling is mum's alive

that we've still got a mum for at the

moment

when you woke up the day after that

birthday incident that party incident

yeah

and you should I didn't sleep I didn't

wait so yeah

and you saw your mum what did you say

sadness

what can she do

someone so hurt that every time she

moves it hurts

I heard everything I heard her tried to

run

and then so then

as a five six year old

well I just want to hugged my mum

but we can't

you can't hug her but no

why

wasn't allowed to show love

I suppose that's why

I suppose like a word like control is

easy to say isn't it I suppose until you

break it down and understand that's the

control like we're not even allowed to

show love or hug

or speak really

you so the day the day after that

incident you're not allowed to go over

to her and hug her no

your dad has told you you're not allowed

to go in her car yeah

what's the consequences of you if you

hugged her

that time it would happen to me and my

brother

and did that happen to you and your

brother yeah if

if we spoke back

if we didn't obey orders

if you show love emotion you're not

being strong you're not showing that

you're strong right

just get on with things last night

happened you just get on with things

when when you look back and you've

talked about this in your book as well

about how in many respects that served

you becoming a football player and it

made you a little bit more I guess

resilient shall I say

um but when you look back at those early

years and you see how emotion was

disallowed or squeezed out of you are

there were there words spoken that told

you emotion was not a useful thing or

was it just actions and behavior where

did you where did you

lose that sense of emotion and love and

affection and for me I always had it I

know from a kid I just wanted to give

love okay or see the light in someone I

wasn't getting it from my dad or my mom

was showing me in a different way I know

I wanted it I was craving it I remember

my best friend Regan going around to her

house and they're Huggers everything's

so affectionate it's even I would like

freeze like this she'd hugged me and I'd

just stand there like oh my gosh I don't

even know what to do what happens in

this moment and she laughs about it to

this day

and still to the same it's hard you know

I don't hug my mum

like I want to the other day it was her

birthday I was like all right mum little

hug and pat on the back love you

and then like she feels awkward I'm kind

of awkward because that's how we've

grown up we don't know how to do that I

find it easier now because I've gone

through the process of learning that and

that it's okay

but then when I go back into the

environment to this day I don't I can't

I don't think I've ever hugged my

brother

because that's still that environment

it's hard because

for me I feel so lucky I've you know

this career football now in broadcasting

I've traveled the world I've educated

myself in such a different way surround

myself with people that are affectionate

I love that I love giving love to other

people and then I go back into that

environment and straight around like

this again it's like that Frozen

and it's hard because I've been on the

journey doesn't mean you're ready for it

that I can try and bring it out of you

or I can baby steps but yeah

and I guess that environment is still a

trigger so you haven't

you haven't recovered in that

environment yeah you know it was so I

for me it's kind of happy but it's so

interesting also is my niece lives with

us we've had her since she was two

living in some with my mom and my

brother at home in East End she gets it

all and I see that through my mum

through my brother for all the love that

they didn't have or the hugs they give

it to her which is beautiful like you

said but they still can't do it amongst

themselves that makes sense the other

the other moment you talk about in the

book is the day that um

your mum told your dad to leave yeah

yeah she said she found it Inner

Strength Manan had recently passed away

um sudden

and it was hard for my nan this story

from my mum

um because she knew what was going on

even that wasn't spoken about your nan

knew what was going on yeah

um and then yeah as soon as she passed

away a sudden heart attack my mum found

her strength to say no that's enough's

enough

um

and she finally told him that that was

it she said to me she was Finding ways

she'd gone to someone like a homeless

shelter or something to see if she did

run would she be safe and then would

they be able to then collect us

afterwards so she was trying to find

ways to leave the environment but she

then always couldn't because it came

back to me and my brother

and then yeah that day she finally

enough was enough

said she just didn't care she didn't

care what would happen to her or

whatever but she knew that this couldn't

go on anymore for the sake of me and my

brother

did she tell you what she said to him no

I just remember getting the shout to

come down the hallway me and my brother

marching down and then waiting for an

order or something and then him saying

that we had to choose

that he was leaving and we have to

choose there and then right then whether

we live with mum or live with Dad

and me just looking at my brother like

what and he's making us choose like

right then

and I knew something had gone on because

mum's got her back to us so obviously

something had happened on her face or

because she couldn't look at us

it's a pretty disgusting situation to

put children in isn't it to get them to

pick a parent because regardless of the

and you talk about this as well in your

book is regardless of the the abuse you

still love yeah both parents right yeah

there's my dad

like I say like I see that like this

smile or how he is and how can I feel

just sad like even to this day when I'm

thinking about him I'm just like

you know I suppose he's just sad

I don't want anyone to feel sadness you

know

so I remember in that moment like I was

always it's always my mum I was always

going to pick my mum but it's the

thought that my dad would be lonely as

well

how do I have why do I have to choose

like

in that moment would you have chosen

for things to stay how they were

hmm

no no

so you would have chosen to just go with

your mum yeah yeah but it was just

trying to process as a seven-year-old

that my dad might feel lonely and what

happens to my dad

but no I need to protect my mom I need

to be strong for my mum I need to look

after her

hmm

and then your dad's leaves he's gone no

just leaves leaves with everything

Furniture everything not that we even

had a lot to take but it was still just

you know you make do you get by but yeah

he took everything Mom let him take

everything too

because then he didn't have a hold over

her anymore

oh yeah

and you stayed in the house we stayed in

the house yeah

what was life like beyond that point

I think that's why I'm so lucky Stephen

I had football

I had that out I had something to focus

on

you know so I'd Escape into a different

environment that gave me structure

where I think for my mum and my brother

it was it was a lot harder

you know you're still processing my

brother

and I suppose this is where it hurts my

mum

because she puts a lot of blame on

herself

we went from a controlled environment

which very much I was still in control

but a disciplined environment with

football is very different

and then so my brother totally went the

opposite way

for someone that had been controlled and

in that environment

he then had a freedom

but he didn't know what to do with that

freedom my mom didn't know what to do

with him so I think it was harder it's

been a lot harder for my brother

when you say it's been harder for your

brother what's what does that look like

in reality

that I'd say even to this day he doesn't

know himself or what to do his purpose

carrying guilt

you know we talk about strength and

stuff is I know it's very different for

men him feeling that he should have been

that protector

maybe you know

when he looks at his baby sister I've

managed to make a career or do something

and he looks at his life and what has he

done

do you have these conversations with him

no we we can't we've not had a

conversation about anything

as a family we can't sit down we don't

know how to

there's not been a conversation

about anything are you close

in a different way

you know when you hear stories of

brothers and sisters and like that love

we have for each other

is so strong

but in a different way is protect him

from afar

would do anything for each other and be

there

but it's not a pick up the phone how are

you sis what's happened what's going on

in your life

but no matter what you'll just always be

there for each other what do you think

that is why do you think there is such a

distance

because you don't know how to

communicate

we don't know how to talk

when all of your life

from all those age that age Gap when my

dad was in the house

we didn't learn anything

I've gone away from that and taught and

educated myself differently

but my mama and my brother's still been

in that

I felt a bit guilty actually because I

remember going to therapy learning all

of this learning my behaviors learning

then to deal with my emotions and talk

and they're like great go and do this

with my mum my brother you know we'll

start opening the conversation

but then actually it took my mum back to

a place that that hurts her

you know and I did that

because why oh because I was ready

you had you had a conversation with her

post therapy and it hurt her yeah it's

bringing up all the stuff that's still

so Raw

that she's never dealt with you just got

off with life it's what you do right

let's put a plaster over it you get on

with stuff the mentality

get your head down and get through

things but actually you're not dealing

with it are you it's still there it's

still raw

and it will show up it'll rear its head

in very ugly ways at times if it's

unaddressed because it's still

controlling you it's just controlling

you from like the back room somewhere

that's what I almost think in terms of

like domestic violence and what goes on

I think we deal with a lot of stuff till

when the person has left the environment

right but then a lot of the work needs

to start afterwards also

like those conversations actually

dealing with those emotions what next

instead of like oh they've gone can get

on with life actually you can't because

it's still there it's inside

were you ever jealous of other families

no you won't never jealous no I was like

I feel I'm lucky I've had everything for

my mum I've had the love

they care her doing everything she can

you know so I've never looked at other

families and I feel lucky I've been

invited into families that have shown me

love or taken me away and had that but

ultimately for me my mum is absolutely

everything she's done everything she can

I won't be here this person right now if

wasn't for everything that my mum has

done for me in my life

comparison can sometimes make us feel

sad though because it's uh what

comparison does is it gives us these

kind of false expectations of how our

life is supposed to be going so we look

at another family and we oh look at

Christmas they're all sat there and

they're all they're dancing around the

table and they've all got their little

crowns on their head and you know and

then we look at our lives and go

you know maybe

I wish I had all my family here and we

could we could have these moments you

ever felt those kinds of things I know I

have

I spend I spent quite a few Christmases

on my even in the last couple of years I

think last year I was alone on Christmas

people don't really know about that but

I was but because my family is quite

dysfunctional

so getting them all to be happy in the

same place is not such a simple task

yeah so sometimes it's just easier I

think I just flew to Portugal on

Christmas last year you know it's so

interesting you say that because I find

myself removing myself from those

situations that I feel uncomfortable

with

so same thing Christmas I want to escape

because for me it reminds me of sadness

so it's not comparing to other people's

families and the happiness and

everything for me it reminds me of

sadness

so then I'd rather remove myself travel

away be away in my own thoughts then sit

for it and see my mum's sadness

something that I can't change in her

it's like as if I'm still failing to

make her happy in those moments and

that's hard for me so it's never

comparing to other families it's just

that

I feel helpless in trying to help my mum

that hurts

have you always seen that as your

responsibility to cheer your mama to

keep her happy because you talked about

rushing home from school to try and

protect her and

and now now that you feel like you're

failing her

I don't know if I've like ever thought

about it as a responsibility I don't

know I think it's just something that's

me that I've always I'm a helper I want

to help people I want them to be happy I

want to do everything I can for someone

to bring joy to them I don't know maybe

it's because the upbringing I didn't

have much of that or something I don't

know

so I haven't I don't know I've not seen

it as a responsibility but I just I want

her

to have a life that maybe she's missed

you know and bring her that light back

in order to do that she's gonna have to

confront some of the things that bring

the pain back as well though right so we

see it so many times in our friends and

and people that you know they've been

through something you know it's holding

them back from living the fullest life

they could live today but in order to to

unlock that fullest life they have to go

back through some stuff and bring it out

into the open and you see I see it

sometimes with my friends where

I know they don't want to go back there

yeah but if they don't then they're

gonna there's a risk that in my view and

who's who the [ __ ] am I to tell them

about their lives but they're going to

end up missing out on the like the

fullness of Life yeah so it's this

battle it's like do you want to keep on

keeping on and just keep it in the back

room

and live a live a less full life or do

you want to go back there and do the do

the hard work to try and unlock your

and it's a battle and it's like a fit

yeah well what is it

face to face see the fear and face it

and do it anyway like I'm of that

mindset like it might be scary but I'm

still going to do it I'm still going to

give it a try but then I suppose

everyone doesn't have that mindset today

like in order to move forward or see

into the future you can't if you're

still driving looking in the rearview

mirror like not dealing with all the

past stuff behind

and then so for me I think I've got to a

stage like why am I talking about this

in a book or you know it's been hard for

all this like I've hidden it how long up

till now

I've never spoken about my upbringing or

what's going on in my life until this

book until this moment

why was now the right time

because I think I'm

I've learned a lot about myself I'm

older I'm Wiser and

I'm

don't want the heaviness of it anymore

you know and I actually ultimately wrote

it hoping that my mum it frees my mum

you know it's part me but hoping that

this finally frees my mum and she can

move forward from it all now I'm okay

you know Ronnie's done okay for himself

you don't have to protect us anymore

like let us look after you you're an

amazing woman

when you write this book and you're you

know your mum knows that you're going to

be sharing this with the world what are

those conversations like to

as I guess at some point you might have

had to read this book to her or tell her

about the certain parts she read it oh

she read it yeah

she yeah

I'm being just a biased mum but she

loved it

um but she found it super interesting

because once again

I've gone through a lot of stuff

that I've not spoken to her about that

she didn't know about me because once

again I've always been trying to protect

her

so when I've gone through stuff my first

thing is I can't tell my mum because I

don't want her to panic about me you

know she already been through enough so

I can look after myself so her reading

stuff she's actually learned a lot about

me my emotions how I deal with things

that have come up

and an outing like I said that

when she was going for all of that stuff

with my dad she didn't know what

I was in the room doing that I didn't

sleep once because I'm listening just to

make sure that I can hear her move in

the morning

heaviness

use the word heaviness you didn't want

the heaviness anymore

yeah

what is what is that what was the

heaviness

carrying all of this not speaking

about what went on

hiding it every time I'm asked about my

mum or my dad in interviews

because I think if you look back at

everything that I've done as soon as

this topic is brought up about my mum I

get emotional

because straight away someone doesn't

know just talking about my mom and me

saying oh it's amazing straight away I'm

picturing everything that went on

that why I think she's amazing

but I can't tell you that you just hear

me get emotional and then I change the

subject

but like I said I suppose through

learning how to communicate better and

understand my emotions

I just want to be free like I want to be

like I want to move forward in my life

not having any of it anymore like I'm at

a stage in this point in my life where

I'm ready to enjoy this stage this next

season

you know

use the word earlier on patterns what

was the symptoms of that heaviness

how did how did you start to see it

manifesting in your behavior

shutting off from life

shutting off from dealing with emotions

pushing them down not letting anyone in

to help me when I need help

not talking to anyone just I'm always

okay just carry on what's next what

happens next yep I can do that I can do

that doing everything for everyone else

around me but actually I just need

someone to do something for me being

like okay you offering help I'm gonna

say Okay instead of saying no to

everything because I can deal with

everything

which ultimately that's where people

talk about me and the trolling

and you know the trolls pushed me into

therapy no they didn't

you know it was just that stage on top

of every single other thing

that I finally was like I need to talk

to someone this is all too heavy for me

to deal with

like I'm in a dark place

and I can either carry on in that dark

place or actually I can do something

about it this is post your footballing

career yeah went into broadcasting it

was a lot a lot of events had happened

in my life I didn't even know until I

wrote down in a book like a timeline and

I'm like [ __ ] I wonder why I bloody

ended up in therapy because I hadn't

dealt with any of it I just kept going

you know that's been a mentality and a

trait that's the pattern

I'm okay Alex is always okay

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tag anyway

back to the podcast one of the things we

didn't talk much about yet is um

which I think would be a surprise for a

lot of people is that you couldn't speak

for for many years growing up because of

a speech impediment yeah this matter

talking to you chatting away yeah yeah

and then working in broadcasting but

when you know

speech impediment is is something you

know you've gotten over the speech

impediment and you went to like speech

therapy from what I understand yeah the

thing that's probably you know I assume

would stay with you for life is how that

makes you feel about yourself in a you

know what I mean because it's you know

you've over overcome it but the the

thoughts of

um struggle or maybe like not fitting in

socially or being a bit insecure about

things can can lingle long after the

the solution's been found when you look

back in your adult years has did that

impact

your life

how other people viewed me I didn't feel

like my voice was important or I

wouldn't be able to get what across what

was going on in my head it's now you say

I'm over I'm not

like it's just I I can hide it a lot

better or I know that okay I have to

reword things or I memorize scripts for

instance or I'm practicing them so when

I get on camera I know that word that's

coming up I can't say I've practiced and

practice it but then I go to say and it

still it doesn't work because I just

can't articulate where the words come

from

um even earlier today before I was

having a juice in and I asked if there

was I can't even say the word cinnamon

or something

whatever the spices in it are there's

certain things I I just can't say but

it's almost I found a habit of just

laughing at myself before everyone else

laughs at me or then just not finding my

voice not speaking out because I'm

scared

that it won't come out the way that's in

my head I know like my brain works so

fast like I'm always thinking 10 steps

ahead of everybody else but I can't get

it out

how bad was it for people that might not

understand what it's like to have a

speech impediment when you're younger

foreign

because you go back to the environment

that I I grew up in it was actually then

easier

for it not to because you're not don't

speak until you've spoken to just easy

not to speak

so which actually then full circle then

my mum didn't detect it till later on

because then I just wasn't speaking

because it was in that environment where

I wasn't really playful or speaking out

anyway

um so it's not until then and then

having to recorrect it but then I'm in

an environment with someone who I'm

sitting with and I can feel like the

love or they're caring for me so then I

think it's just a game right that I can

feel something from you that you're

invested in me which is totally

different to that what I'm feeling of my

dad so then you go back to those

patterns I feel like that's the pattern

that I then craved with everyone I then

just want my first coach to see

something in me I'll do everything for

you just believe in me like I want to

feel that from you relationships the

same thing it's like I'm always seeking

that from what I wanted from my dad I

suppose in my childhood

difficult to have relationships when the

first model of Love you've ever you

witnessed was deeply

um toxic

yeah that the speech impediment so not

knowing how to communicate or speak

properly instead of

what I'm gonna what I'm trying to say

doesn't come out right

so from the speech impedance it's just

easier not to speak

a lot in my circumstances that's how

speech impedant for me Works which go is

crazy because like you said do that for

a living now yeah yeah how does that

work out

because the thing is like on TV I

suppose I don't think about the millions

of people watching me or that for me

it's just always I'm so interested in

the person sitting opposite me because

I'm learning you know the area of East

London that I grew up in I didn't think

I'd be surrounded by people that view

the world or I've seen something in a

certain way and I'm just sometimes I'm

not speaking like hey you you ask a

question and you wanted me to speak so

the same thing I can ask you something

and you're telling me this amazing story

and I'm just sitting there even though

I'm presenting I'm just amazed because

I'm just like wow I'm learning something

here so ultimately yes I do it for a

living but now I'm just sitting there

learning and only speaking sometimes

really even though it's on TV but like I

said in relationships yeah I know that

pattern of not speaking or when

something's tough I would run away from

it

like I have to just push it down push

the emotions down the next day

everything will be fine I'll carry on

like nothing ever happened which for my

partner has always been the super

hardest thing because they want to talk

about it and get it out and all the

feelings

but then I was always scared how those

feelings or if you got to that angry

state

what would happen because I grew up

seeing that in my dad

so then I just want everything to be

great like fine everything's fine

tomorrow everything will be great that's

the thing in relationships you've got to

battle it out to resolve a problem and

if you don't it ends up being deposited

in the relationship as resentment or

contempt and it just stays there as an

issue and addressed yeah and then it

will pop up some some other day yeah

I think that's everything that happened

to me up until I went to therapy is that

it finally all needed to come out

everything

to deal with the emotions the childhood

the speech impediment hiding it all

I've come to learn I remember saying to

my one of my friends last week I said I

think I think the single most important

thing in any relationship

um if it is to last especially romantic

relationships is conflict resolution

because you know I see you I've said

this before but I see relationships as

like imagine two dots and a piece of

paper and then the relationship begins

and they become these lines moving as

the relationship you know carries its

course and then there'll be things that

start to make the lines deviate from

each other and go a bit when but

conflict resolution keeps the two people

close you know if you know your partner

you don't like the way he eats that

thing yeah you can talk about it and

that's a trivial thing but you can

resolve things and keep yourselves close

when things go unresolved it seems like

these two parallel lines start to

deviate and you move further apart and

then you're not having sex but you you

don't know how to talk about it so they

just continues to deviate for so

conflict resolution seems to be the

thing that is

um keeps contentment out of a

relationship which Dr professor John

gottman says is the number one killer of

relationships but it also Keeps Us close

if you're if you're not a master in

conflict resolution it must be quite you

know because you you want to avoid

conflict entirely and that or you don't

know how to communicate in a way that's

going to help you to resolve the

conflict it must be difficult

I say difficult but then I would just

always find a way of question and

obviously is not right which I've now

figured out about myself I would change

things I would stop doing things okay to

try and make my partner happy yeah so

I'm then changing myself I've not been

my true authentic self because yes I'm

avoiding the conflict and everything but

in doing so I've stopped doing what I

want to do or what I like just to then

always keep everything nice and happy

and then you'll resent that's where the

contempt shows up because you think [ __ ]

I'm not doing this for you and I'm not

doing this

but then I wouldn't even speak about

that yeah so I'll just sit there silence

like why am I mad what's going on in my

head like why am I feeling this what's

going on yeah because I've changed and

I'm doing everything just to try and

keep being happy

and you've solved that I don't think if

you'd ever solve anything you I'm

learning you know it's interesting what

did I hear the other day about you know

we spend more time as people studying

other people what you wear what you

study how you act how you behave then

actually spending time studying

ourselves and so I would say over the

last

two and a half years or since going to

therapy

I'm studying myself more so those

patterns those learning how to

communicate better or what I do

which will then help me in a

relationship

moving forward

hopefully

when you look back at your football

career yeah

big smile on your face

um a really really amazing career

um you're very much considered a legend

in the game why do you think you were

successful

at football when you look back what was

it about you and your character that

separated you from those

you know thousands hundreds of thousands

of other people you were competing with

to play for England or to play for

Arsenal

I think it goes back to the cage first

of all

for me football was just always and it

was a escape and a happy place

and I was scared to always lose that

so I actually yeah even though like I

went on what 140 caps for England and

then there'd be people like yeah you're

the first name on a team Sheet you're a

favorite I played every game for England

kind of with that fear that could be

taken away this could be my last game

like what if I don't get picked next

week what am I going to do like it's all

I've ever known in my life

I know I wasn't the most talented

like I wasn't there was people that were

supposed to be at the top and make it

they were the next best thing in women's

football no one ever spoke about me like

that in terms of growing up in the

Arsenal team I was oh I was an owl that

grew up in East London you know I loved

Arsenal that's how everyone viewed me I

just loved the club you know because for

me it was a home

but no one ever spoke that I was going

to make it

but I suppose that's where

I just wanted people to believe in me

you know

so I was like how I would do everything

to prove to you you know I've got

something just look at me I've got

something I love this place

so I think it was driven by that really

and a feeling of not wanting to let

people down even though they didn't

believe in me

how did that manifest in terms of your

training and your your performance and

your preparation and your direct guess

at your obsession

trying to be the best I can be every day

in every training session every training

session like I've been given an

opportunity

how dare I turn up to training and not

leave giving it my all or coming to

train and be like I don't fancy it today

like I'm so lucky I haven't come from a

council estate or a concrete football

pitch and now I get to walk in at

Highbury or be at the Arsenal men's

training ground you know it's like

who am I to be like now I don't fancy it

today

like I just I just loved what he was

giving me in my life

it's funny we often think of we ask

motivated people we say how do you stay

motivated and when you you look under

the hood it tends to be a

less of a choice than we think in the

sense of it's not like I'm waking up and

going I'm going to be motivated looking

in the mirror and going come on we've

got this it's more it's more sometimes

as you've described like an escape from

something else like yeah and we don't

think of uh motivation as escapism all

the time or insecurity but it so often

is yeah I just knew what football was

giving me in my life

something that you know I had dreams but

never dreamed that I'd be able to travel

the world or you know I remember in the

youth age groups getting on a minibus to

go into Nottingham you know like where

is this place didn't even know this

place existed in the UK you know and

here I am on a mini bus seat in a

sandwich for a packed lunch you know

I've been out the house all day it's

like great I didn't want to let go of

that

playing for England I got to go on an

airplane I got to go to China what oh my

gosh I didn't even know how many hours

on a plane that was you know all those

things were just feeding more I knew it

was more than football but football was

allowing me that platform to see things

and learn things about the world that I

know was making me even more hungry to

keep it and to keep that I needed to

keep doing well at football

and you end up retiring what 33 34 you

quit the international team at 33 quit

Arsenal at 34. if football was giving

you all of all that you've described

there

how did it feel to come to the end of

your time with Arsenal and the England

team

I was learning more about the world and

from other people

and actually then I knew towards the end

of my football career

it was giving me those feelings that I

didn't want the heaviness

and actually a feeling this is not

enough for me anymore

not a feeling of being trapped trapped

is the wrong word

but there it was it was Heavy towards

the end of my career I was taking on a

lot of emotions responsibility I was

Captain

but in terms of I don't know I've always

been this person whereas people can

offload all their emotions on me so I do

that I'll take that home I try and solve

a lot of problems on and off the pitch

and I just I wasn't happy anymore

in my last couple of Seasons well I

didn't know I remember doing a

documentary about Mental Health

and the doctor um Tyra Tanya Byron is

her name

she described it to me so well I didn't

know I was like a functional depressive

this whole time and that started in

those later years of my footballing

career but I didn't know I didn't know

how to describe it or what I was feeling

you know I was just turning up I wasn't

happy it was Heavy taking on everyone's

emotions management players trying to

fix everything and then I'd be home in

the evening and be like whoa I don't

want to talk to anyone like I physically

couldn't talk to anyone which of those

patterns then I'd swish off from the

world

if you try and phone me call me won't

pick up mum yeah I'm okay don't want to

have a conversation because everything

was just then heavy no one in football

knows that because I could go to

football I'd put on a face like I'm Alex

like yeah everything's great leader

Captain great

but then I knew I couldn't do it anymore

I did a TV show Bear Grylls and that was

the first time I knew I was ready to

retire from football

I was surrounded by different people

different conversation about life other

than being in a football bubble where

everything you're consumed by and you

think everything's just sport going on

in the world where I know I've always

needed more

I know that's what's always been the

spark in me about life

and it was the first time I started

having conversations about the world

about other people's lives I'd sit under

the stars it sounds like some Hollywood

movie but every night the survival we

had like a stint that we had to keep the

fiery light on Bear Grylls and I

remember just sitting there keeping the

fire like looking up at the stars and

we're like I'm ready for my next chapter

like I know there's another chapter

and it was just being brave enough to

then take it

and how did you know that that would be

in Media

what did you not know I didn't know no

I was I was always frustrated

from being away with England or even in

Boston that I'd see a teammate full of

Personality life and soul just this

bubbliness about him get asked a

question or being interviewed straight

after a game and go in themselves and

I'll be confused I'd be like what are

you doing that's not you like I didn't

understand so I remember just randomly

asking one of the camera guys like oh

let me interview after let me just ask

some questions and then straight away

doing that and then seeing a teammate

relax and then everyone's saying to me

Alex you know you're natural and I'm

like what's a natural I'm just asking

some questions like I don't get it

um so you don't the same thing when

people be like ah you sit in front of a

camera and talk saying I don't think

about the millions maybe that's why I'm

not sat there in that Frozen state in

fear looking at cameras because for me

the conversation is what feeds me I like

seeing people relax and be fun

um so I just started doing more of it

and then I was like right scared about

the next chapter after football

I was like what am I going to do people

trying to push me into management and I

was like it's not me I don't have a

passion to be a manager not at this

stage I've not seen myself in that role

and I was like no I need to do something

that I love that I get a passion and the

energy from and so that's why I did a

media degree I was like right if I'm

going to do this I know that I'm going

to be judged you know and I don't like

the feeling of anything just being given

to you so like no I'm going to work for

it just like I had to do my football

career I'll work for it I'll do a media

degree so I went and did that whilst I

was still playing for Arsenal

and yeah decided that in 2018

I was ready it I felt ready I had a

two-year contract on the table from

Arsenal to sign that's the comfort zone

the comfort blanket that I

I could have easily taken that I'm still

trying to pay my mortgage

I suppose most of my life is that the

fear of not having money to pay my bills

and the debt man knocking on the door

like I grew up seeing him come around

every Thursday you know that fear

about that no I can't sign that contract

I know how unhappy I'll be

did you have an alternative at that

point did you have a contract from no no

nothing there so what what is that Gap

that you know I think about like monkey

swinging through a through a jungle

you've got to let go of the last branch

and just have faith that you're gonna

grab the next one yeah what was that

period like in your life where you don't

sign the contract and then you're

looking for

your next thing

because I suppose I've always had the

fear or a lot of people what if it

doesn't work out actually I suppose I've

always been the opposite what if it does

work out I don't want to be held back in

fear of no just in case

so it's more like I knew the headspace

that I was in I couldn't sign that

two-year contract it'd be unfair it'd be

unfair to myself it'd be unfair to my

teammates because I'd just be turning up

to collect you know my monthly salary at

the end which isn't a lot nothing like

men or whatever but it was enough to be

and pay my mortgage monthly but I know I

couldn't do it it was unfair when did

your first broadcasting job emerge then

after that it's weird because I was

doing random stuff for BBC like

appearing on a like women's football

show or something and it's when I

announced my retirement that's when it

just went okay it's like I was free and

then people like well she's free to do

more she's got more hours in her day

like she can actually start doing some

work and then from BBC yeah they started

offering me more I was appearing on some

of their Flagship Flagship shows

Football Focus or kind of those ones and

then yeah I suppose 2018 for me was that

year and

because then I went off to the World Cup

2018 the first female pundit for the BBC

and I suppose from there then it

continued

you talk about coming home

um one day through that period and this

is the the part where you start talking

about this function functional or

functioning depression and you talk

about

um looking at yourself in the mirror and

then taking a walking past it taking a

couple of steps back and looking at

yourself in the mirror yeah

um

tell me about that day that evening what

happened and you end up like collapsing

and you know having a bit of a moment

yeah yeah I remember that like as

yesterday

oh yeah

I keep going back to the word heavy I

think because that's straight away I I

feel it

I didn't know well I know I did that I

was carrying a lot I'd carried a lot

through my football career which I

didn't really know I was just doing it

all trying to solve everything

straight away I took that into my

broadcasting career and like all these

great things that yes I'm the first this

I'm the first that I never set out to be

that I was just following something that

I love that I had a passion for

um

and so all the stuff and I suppose the

pressure that came with that I didn't

know I wasn't putting it on myself but

the expectation for me

the expectation I was putting on myself

was not to let anyone down like I've

been given a chance I can't let my BBC

boss down like I've got this person

that's finally believing in me he's

given me an opportunity to go to a men's

World Cup like this is big like so I was

working so much doing so much

not to let anyone down

and then ultimately on top of that

as you're becoming the first as I'm the

first female all the negative stuff that

come with that

all the trolling all the online abuse

all of that

like you've just got to a stage

where I just I couldn't take it anymore

like I'd been numbing everything

just carrying on I can't show I'm weak

if I show I'm not strong if I show my

weakness then the only thing I can't

handle it oh no issues look a female

can't handle it it's too much for her so

all of this I've just been bottling and

just carrying on putting on this face

like everything's okay

and then

that night was when it all got too much

I didn't want to come home I was

drinking to switch off to sleep to numb

it all to forget about it

and I just got to a stage where I'd had

a dad

filled with drink an uncle passed away

was an alcoholic it's like drink problem

and alcohol has been

huge in my life and here I was repeating

those same patterns

drinking every night to switch off from

the world after work so you'd be

presenting on TV and then you'd come

home and yeah to switch off from it all

switch off um

just life

switch off from not talking to someone

don't want to speak because then I'd

have to speak about emotions and the

heaviness continues right

if I don't speak about it it's great

it's going to go away it actually

doesn't

just gets bigger and bigger

and I think it was go back to how you

said about Christmas in New Year it was

that I was on my own because it was my

choice wanted to escape everything the

feelings

and then just being so sad

so sad

and I was like I can't continue like

this

so is that choice in that moment the

next day

to Google therapy

what happened that night

just couldn't stop crying

could not stop crying drinking then the

drinking wasn't switching off what was

going on in my head

just numb just I was literally

on my bed curled up just uncontrollably

crying and I don't know why I don't know

why I was crying the way I was

and why why should I be crying because

from the outside I should I'm okay I've

had amazing football career I'm now

working on TV I can still pay my bills

like why should I be sad from the

outside world who am I to be sad I've

got everything going for me right

couldn't understand it

you understand it now

I understand yeah

that for so all my life

I'd locked up all these feelings

that I didn't know like how you said

they eventually find its way out

but we've had all these I've had all

this trauma

everyone has trauma we have a big small

everyone goes well drama and I suppose

I'd put up all this protective walls

around me

and now they're just flooded out like I

needed help

how did the trolling online

exacerbate make all of this stuff worse

and like be honest with you know we all

pretend that that doesn't affect us oh

gosh yeah no that's so easy when people

say I don't read it forget about it

like but when constantly every day

and yes my job to sit in front of a

camera

but the abuse of

you know your skin color what you're

saying just everything the pure hatred

and I'm like what what have I done

that was something like what have I done

like should I just stop

because ultimately

I was talking about something that I

love

you know I was just someone that worked

super hard didn't try and go and get a

degree to get into this world to get

another job you know to be able to pay

my bills and look after myself

and here I am getting nothing but pure

hate and abuse every single day

and I'm not going to say something I

can't do this anymore

but why

who why should I let them win you know

so I'm fighting this battle constantly

every day with myself

did that make it harder to like really

love showing up at work every day no do

you know why because like the football

cage the actual work being on screen was

an escape

it gave me like an hour and a half where

I'm doing Super Sunday that was an

escape I was actually you could forget

about everything it's straight away when

I'm going home once again that I'm on my

own that's when it all spirals out of

control

like I can't take it functional

depressive like at work I'm totally fine

put on the walls like I'm doing the work

enjoying it loving it and then straight

away then I can't take it

hence why most probably I threw myself

into more work

thinking myself time off work work

because I'm loving doing it keep it

coming Keep It Coming

yeah it's a distraction from just

sitting with oneself and and confronting

yeah I see this so much in so many

people I know this I just made myself so

busy that I won't have to actually deal

with stuff yeah it's almost like

it's almost like um I sat here with

Maisie Williams and she she'd been

through a lot when she was younger and

her with her father Maisie Williams from

Game of Thrones the the actor and um she

talked about how acting was her escape

and the interesting thing is when when

we in work and in I guess in acting we

kind of get to disassociate from our our

true self our identity like we become

this character like even me now yeah

this is obviously not you know I'm being

as authentic as I can but I'm also

trying to be a [ __ ] host of a podcast

here right so like when I go upstairs

and I'm on my own that's my truest self

obviously when the camera's on or

whatever

um but it is it's like this is our work

is our escapism it's we get to we're

playing especially when you're

presenting you are you know you ever

yeah high pitched and you're like so

um it's funny I've seen it a lot in some

of my really close friends that work is

their way of distracting themselves from

their life yeah just getting past today

but you know what maybe for me I suppose

maybe I didn't learn that part because

actually what you see on screen is

actually me I didn't learn how to either

be this presenter or be a different form

of myself so I've always given just it's

just me but who's the person at home is

the person that had dealt with all this

trauma and done stuff but had like I

hadn't

that's what I'm saying it's like so on

on TV there's this expectation for you

to be a certain way right which is

you've got to be at least you can't be

sat there talking like this yeah yeah

you've got to be a little bit up and

you've got to be more a little bit more

interested then maybe you might be

feeling but but when you go home on that

that night in particular that's probably

actually you yeah

because there's no camera there's no one

watching that's when there's no

distraction

and I think that sometimes we are who we

are when we're least distracted yeah

when there's no phone there's no nothing

go put us in a jungle and sit there for

now you'll find out who you are yeah

so like

when you are when you were alone yeah

and when you are alone and when there is

no distraction

who are you now

are you in a relationship because this

is quite no you're not in a relationship

come dating okay you're dating okay

you're dating

I don't want to put a label on it okay

here we go is the trauma you don't want

to let you wanna commit yeah that's a

toxic trait so you're dating you're not

in a relationship but you're dating yeah

okay so I'm just trying to figure out if

you're going home Alone

um yes I'd say yes I am okay yeah what

do you like now when you when you're in

that space alone

and what's the journey been like of like

being alone undistracted I love it no

yeah have you always loved it

I know what those moments have given me

in my life

but maybe because I was clouded by a lot

of stuff going on I was scared to be in

those moments where actually I think

about

the best moments that I feel now are my

most Quiet Moments so I have this

special place in Portugal and I always

escape to it because why I love nothing

more than getting up in the morning and

going on a hike in nature and I feel I

come alive like the thoughts that enter

my brain about life or what I want to do

or where I want to go like it fills me

with so much energy

so I love those moments I love going

away I go alone um away a lot on my own

and people can't get their head around

it you can is that on vacation on your

own right yeah because I need it I know

what it gives me

so like I would say those moments I love

I need it to recharge and refocus

sometimes were you ever the person that

didn't want

the party to end or didn't want work to

end yeah you were that person I had a

suspicion you might have been I've

always my labor trait those scales that

I love this end I love connection I love

people the energy that it gives me and

then I also love the other side of it I

need to be alone sometimes like not

speak and I have the conversation just

literally be in my own thoughts I say

this because

the friends that I've got closest to me

that struggle the most with unadjusted

issues were always the ones that never

so say we're on a night out a couple of

drinks one or two I'm like I'm done they

would always want to continue and it was

it was this interesting observation that

you and people listening will know this

friend they do not want people to go

home they do not want the you know they

want to have one more drink and then

they have I think someone's referred to

me before it's like the fear either upon

so but sobering up or having to go home

alone at the end of the night and I sat

here with a with a guy that kind of

explained that to me but I was just

curious if that was ever you at all it's

not that that I want to I love nothing

more than seeing people have a good time

that in those moments I often forget

that I need to have a good time okay

like I'm trying to make everyone have a

good time do you need a drink I'm gonna

go get you a drink let's go out for food

let's do this I'm planning your biggest

thing and I've never planned anything to

celebrate my own stuff because that's

what I love seeing in other people

so it's not a fear of like I want you to

keep staying out or keep giving a drink

it's just I'm loving seeing you have a

great time and that makes me so happy

the trolling stuff yeah I there's no

there's nothing more toxic than trouble

Twitter

and it's just the set it's like a

cesspool of like negativity and

anonymity and everyone's display picture

as some footballer from their favorite

club and they just say whatever people

will just say whatever I've I just don't

post onto it anymore yeah I'm kind of

the same oh what happens on my Twitter

if you look at it it's just the podcast

clip goes out and that's it yeah because

you can't vacuum yeah I don't want to be

baited into some [ __ ] but in your job

it's almost part of the job to be on

Twitter and to have a voice and to be

common like you know I see it with the

pundits like Gary and Jake Humphries and

all they always it's part of the job to

kind of mm-hmm

I would say it's part of the job for

them or but I would say to the extent

that what I've gone through with it

is maybe they haven't experienced that

level and I think I remember Jake

Humphrey saying as well lucky hasn't or

he couldn't believe the stuff that was

coming my way and you wouldn't until

you're going through it or actually see

it

like and I suppose I hit it for so long

but I tried to hide it for so long

because I was scared of being seen as

being weak not strong enough to deal

with it all

did you find anxiety

yes of

the fear of what might happen to me

to that extent

like because the abuse then would turn

into death threats also to the fact is

that I am going home alone

you know what what happens there

like we've seen in the past of you know

some presenters

what's happened

stalking all of that stuff so all of

that anxiety goes from my head like I

want to just be safe like I'm just going

to work the Jeff's talkers I wouldn't

say stalkers no

but in terms of the death threats and

everything that's and then I suppose

that's when I don't tell my mum don't

tell anyone so actually then I'm dealing

with all of this on my own yeah it's a

lot

that day so the day after the you're

crying on your bed you don't know why

you're crying yeah it's uncontrollable

and you you said the next morning you

Googled therapy therapy yeah yeah

I love because people when people have

spoken to Fair people have had

conversations about it in the past like

straight away I would screw up my face

and be like well no one can tell me

about myself I know myself like what

they're going to do they don't know

about my life

like that would be the attitude for me

for therapy until that day where I

Googled it one I didn't even know what

to look for all this long list came up

of all these different therapies I'm

like what do I need I just need to talk

to somebody

and then yeah then ended up Googling

someplace that was close to where I live

went there and it was everything that I

thought of her who would be like that

feeling of someone sitting there and

just saying yes or no to me and I was

like no this is not going to work for me

like I'm that person I need someone to

be brutally honest with me

like they're saying yes or no it's not

gonna it's not what I need to hear

were you scared when you um you went for

that first therapy session like you've

Googled a place close to you don't you

don't haven't had a recommendation

walking up to something knocking on

something like are you ready yeah yeah

yeah but it's so uncomfortable

so uncomfortable

and then went home the same thing it's

like this not gonna work am I going to

stay in this dark place get out some

wine let's drink let's numb it all that

experience didn't happen then they

actually then something in my brain was

like no

and then something clicked

that I'd heard about this place sporting

chance

actually I need to reach out to them see

if these people can help me

and then straight away within a day

someone had come back to me saying we

found this guy go and see him and the

moment Stephen I walked into the room

with him I knew he was the guy