I feel like I'm struggling to breathe.

It blew my [ __ ] mind. I don't know

whose dick I've got to suck to get

[ __ ] respect around here.

True. Jordi went through incredible

adversity to get to where he is today.

Depression, anxiety, and he's one of the

few people that's willing to tell you

about it.

Me ego was just going [ __ ] crazy. I'm

the man. All the worst parts of me

amplified. It was It was better than a

drug. It was better than anything. It

was like, wow. I would have carried on

doing that probably if I hadn't have had

a moment of like boom. It just felt like

everything I'd been building to had been

like really like [ __ ] up. I know I

needed humbled, but it was brutal. I

literally wanted to kill myself. Like,

you know, I really really did.

When you love someone more than anything

else in this world, that matters more

than anything. And where others would

have capitalized on a so story, she was

far too precious for me to share. She

was mine. She wasn't there for anyone

else. She was just my mom. And I miss

her every [ __ ] day, bro. But once you

give it, there's no taking it back. The

day I don't need money anymore,

that's going to be a scary day for the

rest of the internet. I don't I don't

want to let the fans down and and I

don't want to stop doing what they they

love me for, but

True Jordy Brian. He's one of the real

pioneers in the YouTube space. He runs

one of the biggest football shows, the

biggest podcast, the biggest boxing

shows, and much, much more. But he is at

heart not the guy you see on screen. He

is a gentle giant. One born in a council

estate who went through incredible

adversity to get to where he is today.

billions of views. His conversations

seem to sway cultural conversation, but

he's still not getting what he deserves

in his opinion and in mine. When you see

True Jordy, what you see is this big 6'5

guy with tattoos and huge muscles. But

when you peel the layers back, you find

the total opposite. You find a small kid

in there, one that's still living in the

council estate in his mind, and one

that's missing his mother after her

tragic death a few years ago. He's been

to rock bottom. Depression, anxiety,

suicidal ideiation, and he's one of the

few people that's willing to tell you

about it and tell you about it with full

honesty and vulnerability. I've known

Brian a long time, and I've been so

fascinated by him because he appears to

be this contradiction. He appears to be

someone that does not give AF, but at

the same time, he's incredibly,

incredibly sensitive. To me, he's the

ultimate reminder that we are all a

contradiction and that you should never

judge a book by its cover. What you're

going to hear today is some stories that

Brian has never told. Stories that will

move you, some that might move you to

tears, but also stories that will

inspire you, and teach you some

important life lessons about what it

really is to be a human being, scars and

all. Without further ado, I'm Steven

Bartlett and this is the Diver CEO. I

hope nobody's listening, but if you are,

then please keep this to yourself.

How would you define and describe the

rise of True Jordy? And when I say that,

I'm talking about, take me back,

the early days.

Okay.

The stuff that made you who you are

today.

Um,

I'm an opportunistic person. I like I

when I see a tiny little like thing, I

just blow it open straight away. So like

uh the first um thing that happened to

me was I made a random rant about a

footballer that went viral. Didn't

really do YouTube at all. Just boom. And

then loads of people seeing it in the

Northeast. It was like this crazy son of

a [ __ ] cuz no one really did stuff like

that then. I was one of the first guys

to do a football run.

I want to go back further.

What? Really?

Yeah.

What? Further in how

I want to know the the the the insecure

kid on the council estate.

All right. Okay.

um kind of sensitive inside but had to

act sort of tough because if you didn't

you would be [ __ ] up like you know on

the estate like like my shed once got

burned down like set on fire just by

some kids just cuz it was a shed and it

was there you know like you had to carry

yourself in a certain way cuz all of our

dads were in prison. all of our dads.

Like it was like weird, you know what I

mean? So, we were sort of raising each

other and like I was like a milk kid at

school just cuz I could like drink extra

milk and that at like dinner time and

stuff. And uh I was smart obviously I'm

I'm smart guy but like I was looked upon

as like a nightmare. Like my when I was

10 years old my teacher told my mother

at parents evening she went you can just

tell when some of them are destined for

prison can't you? But like she worded it

like that, you know what I mean? And my

mom's like, "I know exactly what you're

saying." But like it was cuz I hated

her. She didn't understand me. Get me.

She talked down to me. So being talked

down to that really pisses me off even

at a 10-year-old age. Like I didn't like

that. You can win me over and I'll be

I'll be brilliant for you. But just

respect this. Ask me. Don't tell me. You

know, like even and I know that's like a

naive way to look at the world, but I

was 10 and I just had a chip on my

shoulder. And um yeah, didn't like

authority. Um

and but I always was quite like a little

bit competitive. Uh I remember like

there was a couple of kids like just

little random memories I have of like I

was fighting all the time, but like I

remember I always thought of myself as

one of the smarter lads and there was

this thing about like some sort of

school day where they selected like the

brightest boys and the brightest girls

and I wasn't selected. My mom thinking

I'm smarter than them, you know, like

but I couldn't prove it or whatever or I

don't know. I was I was in detention a

lot. I got thrown out of school multiple

times. Once for pissing on the uh the

school teachers lounge window and

telling them all to [ __ ] off when I was

8 years old. One for fighting. Uh just

just white like rebellious, you know,

but like but with a brain and I just

needed to like find something to

What caused you to be that rebellious

8-year-old kid?

I think it's genetic a little bit. My

dad was a rebellious man very much so.

My mom not at all. My mom loving,

caring, kind mother Theresa. My dad uh

like a punk rocker who wanted to he like

he did m [ __ ] when he was at school.

like he took the whole school on strike

once just cuz he didn't like a teacher

and like he he was known for like he was

thrown out of schools for like beating

teachers up and stuff like that cuz when

he was like 14 violence was his life.

You know what I mean?

Do you actually think it's genetic?

I think that um

yeah I think I think part of what makes

me aggressive is my genetic. Yeah. Cuz

even the look I get on my face when I'm

about to fight is identical to the look

my dad gets. Like it's that that switch.

Do you know what I mean? So,

I'm lucky that I've got it diluted with

the kindness of my mother and I finally

managed to channel the aggression into

later on in life into like focus, into

drive, into the good stuff, you know

what I mean? But at the time, I didn't I

was overwhelmed with whatever the [ __ ]

was going on in my head. I didn't really

know what the hell it was. I had Joe Wix

sat here, you know, the body coach guy,

and he um he told me about his mom and

his dad, and his mom was very, very

caring and compassionate, and his dad

would punch um holes in the door.

Yeah.

Every day, and you know, was violent and

abusive. And Joe Wixs has come out as

really really compassionate and kind. I

don't know if you know him personally,

but even, you know, during the during

the lockdown, people saw him doing pee

with Joe and dancing and doing pee in

his in his room and stuff. Was that the

the guy who went popular for the PE

stuff?

Yeah. But he was he was crying and he

was he was up deeply upset that there

was a lockdown because it would hurt

other people. One of the most

compassionate people I've ever had met.

And his dad was from his account

very very um aggressive. So I've always

wondered about these generational cycles

whether it's you know

I think it's different for different

people. I personally I believe that

there's a cocktail in me that's a real

weird mixture of a self-obsessed

arrogant showman who was my dad

bodybuilder hard man went to prison

fighter and then a woman who worked like

looking after people very caring

compassionate loving charitable generous

you know all the good things and I'm not

saying my dad can't be good in any way

but it was just they were very polar

opposite people and for me I I see that

come out in me and there's and there's

there I believe in both genetic and uh

like the sociology side of it as well.

You have any brothers or sisters?

I've got a half sister from my dad's

side. Yeah.

Do you think it makes a difference being

an only child of sorts?

Uh yeah. Yeah, definitely. Me and

Lawrence have had a few conversations.

He was an only child, too. Um, and I

think it does make you

just live in your own head a little bit,

you know, and it makes you like I have

times where if I spend too much time

around people, I'm like, I need a

[ __ ] break from this. Like, I want to

be on me and just listen to music for a

bit.

I heard you say this thing. Um, I heard

you say that people who live in their

own heads and think the most struggle

the most.

They're they're the ones who are most

susceptible to depression, I would say.

Yeah.

Do you want to come in and watch this

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you do, all you have to do is hit the

subscribe button. And now that the world

has opened up, you'll be behind the

scenes as many of our subscribers have

been. I can't wait to meet you. So, take

me through the ride. So, we I know every

it's well documented how you became to

be a YouTuber.

Yeah. Apologies. I'm just used to

rehearsing.

Yeah, I know. Yeah. And I I don't

You're the same. You tell the story a

lot that

rolls up. It loses its emotion because

I've said it that many times, but

Yeah. So, you you you rose as a

YouTuber. I want to get to the point

where we, you know, money starts coming

in. Cuz for me, 23, 24 years old, when

money started coming in, I was going to

every nightclub on the weekend and

getting five bottles of Don Perry on and

I was trying to fill some kind of gap in

me.

Mhm.

And from what I saw in your videos, you

did a similar pulling similar.

I I'd had a bit of money before YouTube

cuz I was working offshore on the oil

rigs doing me deep sea diving. So that

was good money. I was earning about

£10,000 a month doing that. And that was

a bit of a wild lifestyle cuz I was

young. I was working class. I was

surrounded by men who were military men

who wanted to go out, beat men up and

[ __ ] women and take drugs and and and

get drunk, you know? So I was

surrounded. They were my male role

models, you know. So it was a crazy

lifestyle that. So that was kind of

partly me getting raised by these

[ __ ] men around me. And then

obviously um when I found YouTube, it

was like a rebirth of like oh um like I

I went in, it's a long story, but I went

into a bit of depression coming out of

diving and not knowing what the [ __ ] I

wanted to do with my life cuz I didn't

know like I I knew I didn't want to be a

diver anymore. I knew I was done with

that. And when I found YouTube, it felt

like a little uh window of hope. And

then obviously that took off and once I

uh once I started getting money, yeah,

it was like, okay, I I I made it cuz I I

basically gave up on money. I chose

YouTube as a path to happiness. That was

the idea was give up the money, forget

that you're not happy doing that job.

I'd rather make minimum wage doing

videos than make six figures doing

diving. So, I went on that path and then

I it dawned on me, oh, I'm going to make

more money doing this. Actually, once

once I was in the thousands a month, it

was a bit of a oh [ __ ] like, okay, how

do I handle this? And I thought I had a

good handle on it. Like, it was little

stuff at first, new car, move, move

house, better place, and all that. And

then once I came to London, that was

when it really went tits up to be honest

with you. I just started spending money

like crazy. I bought three new cars in

the space of about 18 months. Um, not

altogether, like one after the other

sort of thing, but like um I was able to

get things that I never dreamt possible.

And that was the moment of like, oh, I

can have this like my favorite car ever.

Wow. Uh, bought an Audi R8 first. That

went fast. Nice blue Audi R8. Beautiful.

Then I swapped that for a McLaren uh

which they had the convertible. the roof

come down. I thought I was the dog's

bollocks and that especially a guy like

me like

what the [ __ ] am I doing in a McLaren,

you know? It look ridiculous

cuz I'm so huge. And then I swapped that

for a Bentley um GT 6 L um the

Continental.

Um white leather interior. Gorgeous. All

black wheels black everything. Oh,

black and white. There's this bit you

talked about when you leave diving and

you kind of lose your orientation and

that gives you minor depression which is

seems to be so common in people when

they they lose their purpose

and I mean I had Tom Bloomfield sat here

as well it was very similar they lose

their sense of purpose in life their

direction they feel that disorientation

they feel the depression then you went

after something that you thought would

give you like intrinsic internal joy and

then it becomes a a career and I read

this study which I found fascinating

that in Um, in in psychology, if they

give someone a game that they enjoy and

they play it, they enjoy it. D, and then

if they then give them the same game and

pay them to do it, they lose joy.

So, when you start paying someone to do

something that they once did for the

sheer fun of it, they lose the

fulfillment they're getting from it.

I've seen it in boxing and stuff like

that a lot. Like the passion goes once

it becomes monetary and obl obligatory

like you have to do it. It's not I'm

getting up and doing this passion now

and but

I' I've never lost a passion for video

making that's still there. I love it. Um

but um yeah, I lost my way like this

whole thing of

doing something for the right reasons

because I'd never experienced that kind

of money before. I I remember like

driving that Audi, the first one, the

Audi R8 when I drove that off the

parking lot. That was a moment of like,

what the [ __ ] Like, it just blew me

mind. You know what I mean? The fact

that I was able to to drive a car worth

um it was worth $100,000

and I paid for it in cash.

You didn't? Really?

Boom. Yeah. I was like

and uh and I remember just driving it

and it was it honestly I I don't regret

it because even though it was a complete

waste of [ __ ] money and I wasted even

more money swapping it for the other two

cars, it was a real healthy lesson to

learn and get out my system. But it was

like a drug, you know? It was it was

better than a drug. It was better than

anything. It was like, wow, this is like

for me. I don't know what it is about

fast cars and they look nice and the way

you feel when you're in just makes you

feel like a [ __ ] movie star or

something, you know? Um especially

coming from a place where people set

fire to your shed because there was a

shed, you know, like nobody had a nice

car where I came from, you know, it

wasn't people didn't even have like a

Mercedes or a BMW, let alone a super

car. So that was mindblowing, you know

what I mean? And they just it was too

much for us. Just was.

And I me ego was just going [ __ ]

crazy. You know what I mean? Like

I'm the man, you know? All the worst

parts of me just amplified.

There's there must be a reason why you

got you traded it in so many times

though, right?

I was addicted to that feeling. The new

the new [ __ ] that that was the oh but

but what if Oh. And then I see in the

McLaren. I remember driving it into the

[ __ ] the super car place. I look at

the McLaren. I look back at me out here.

I was like, I don't really And then I

just kept looking at Mac going, it's

new. That's the new [ __ ] The new

hotness. And you know, it's ridiculous.

Just absolutely idiotic.

Never ends.

Yeah. I would have carried on. I would

have carried on doing that probably if I

hadn't have had a moment of like

that

boom. You know what I mean? What are you

doing, mate? You know, health health.

Life's good at that. Give you a good

slap around the head when you need it.

And I really needed it. You know what I

mean? Because everything that a man does

when he's from nothing, like all these

rappers, you know, I was doing the same

thing like spunk money up the wall, buy

pointless jewelry, clothes, [ __ ]

like that, treating people the wrong

way, treating myself the wrong way, not

looking after myself. I piled away on I

think I just skipped like the good years

to Elvis at the end. Do you know what I

mean? Like I just went full throttle.

Um, so yeah,

you said boom.

Oh yeah. Yeah. So I had a bit of a

moment where everything was just you

know came crashing down. There was um a

lot of people know there was the DMs but

also in the same week there was the um

the loss of a huge deal.

Um, which

for anybody that doesn't know the DMs,

some somebody leaked some DMs that some

I had sexual DMs that were out there.

Um, and um, me being the crazy wild

bastard that I was at that moment, you

know, drinking a lot, just doing all

sort just [ __ ] lost my way. And then

in the same week, I also had

a a deal that was on the table that was

pretty much negotiated, done, signed

seal delivered, which would have secured

my financial future for the next two

years with a huge company, big betting

company,

multi-million pound deal. It wasn't it

wasn't just one, you know what I mean?

It was the deal. Um, and they had hired

a new guy who thought he knew better

than the last guy. Um, and he I think he

just like didn't like me. He also I

think it was partly like you don't want

to carry on the the work of the guy who

used to have your job. So he he was

trying to find any reason he could to

um, you know, [ __ ] it up. And, you know,

he did what he did. We got to a point

where I was like, are you going to do

the deal or not, mate? like and there

was um I can't go into specifics cuz I

agreed to like keep it you know

respectful like but there was some

things asked of me which were just

outrageous and um we we we couldn't move

on basically and I'm I'm very glad I

didn't because otherwise everything I

now have

might it might not have ended up that

way. Do you know what I mean? When when

you're put in a position where

do you want to do you want to keep your

ownership of things or or not? you know

what I mean? So, uh, but yeah, that was

a devastating blow. And then obviously

having people laughing at you for sexual

DMs and stuff when, you know, it was I

was drunk as [ __ ] at the time and it was

just a stupid moment. But regardless,

you know, knowing that there's just such

little compassion out there for you when

you're having a awful time, it really it

it it took me I got from as high as I

was, it took as low as possible in that

moment of like no one cares. everything

you've worked hard for, you now don't

have. I I'd literally agreed a tenency

agreement on my flat for two years on

the basis that this was all going to be

signed. So, I'm like, how the what what

the [ __ ] do I do now? You know what I

mean? So, and then

I was hit with a tax bill that was way

more than I could handle as well because

in my head it's like got the cash coming

and got the tax bill paid off, man.

Don't worry about it. So everything that

could go wrong went wrong. And um you

know I know I needed humbled but it was

brutal. That was and and I know it might

sound to some people like out there like

oh uh

oh poor pitiful you know white boy

problems and [ __ ] like that. But it I

literally wanted to kill myself like you

know I really really did cuz it it was

just too much even for me like and I'm a

pretty tough person. It was just it was

awful. Like the level of abuse and

ridicule I got online and and the

financial mess I was in. It just felt

like everything I'd been building to had

been like really like [ __ ] up. And uh

yeah, it was even just talking about it

now is hard to to say. Do you know what

I mean? Cuz it was bad. It was awful.

Um, so that left me in a really really

low place.

The people online would have had no idea

because I I remember watching that play

out from afar

and it was just online it was just kind

of jokes and

Well, what you have to remember is they

didn't know I'd lost a multi-million

pound deal that week. They didn't know I

had a six figure tax bill to pay.

Yes.

So that's happening behind the scenes.

And that happened before.

Yeah.

The before the DM. So then the DMs

happened as well. The icing on the cake

was the DMs,

right? If it was just one or the other,

you could say maybe. But when you're

financially [ __ ] and you're also

trending on Twitter being called,

I'm not even going to say the words, but

you know, the things people say about

gay people that are to hurt them, the

things people, you know, you should go

and do this, you should you know, and

people love to kick people on the way

down. what they especially love and this

is the difference is if you're a

vulnerable person publicly you're seen

to be

I don't know let let's say you're you're

seen to be in some sort of subculture

that people view in a way that's like oh

poor them I hope they're all right I'm a

big strong alpha male I look tough I

look like I can handle all the ridicule

in the world I'm brash cocky like you

know so they people probably didn't

think you like and also when you're a

man you don't get sympathy the way women

get sympathy when they go through

revenge porn or anything like that it's

not looked upon the same and I just had

to sort of think about and take and go

yeah this isn't fair but life isn't fair

so what the [ __ ] do you expect Brian

like you know um so I drank a lot of

whiskey and uh smoked a lot of weed that

week if I'm honest with you

you know what's so funny is I remember I

remember seeing it trending and I I go

on his Brian's account and see what he

said about it Nothing. Silence.

Yeah. Yeah.

And that for me was really surprising.

Oh yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of people

thought that actually. But I even in the

chaos I act

quite cerebrally. I'm a I'm a I'm I can

be quite reptilian when I need to be to

get myself out of a You see in diving

for example, in the moment of panic, in

that moment of like I could [ __ ] die

here. I've been in those situations if I

don't act smart. I could I'm in a a [ __ ]

situation here. I got to use I've got to

pull my knife out, cut this rope, do

this, do I'm used to thinking like in

that way in a So I just thought I'm

going to I'm just going to say nothing.

I'm going have a have a have a night to

think about this. Just just think about

how I was I felt awful. Don't get us

wrong, but I knew I wasn't going to give

up. But even though I wanted to kill

myself, I also thought that weirdly I

think all the the [ __ ] sort of it gave

me something to resist.

Do you know what I you know, give me cuz

I'm a fighter in my heart. So, I was

like, "Nah, [ __ ] you." Um, so, um,

within a day I was like, "Okay, this is

how we're going to do this. I'm going to

get the two best piss takers I know, and

I'm going to get them to rip the piss

out of me, make everyone feel like it's

over and done with now." Because the

minute you acknowledge it, laugh it off,

and show that you're not frightened,

people will get bored, move on to

something else, and they'll scratch the

itch of saying, cuz what they really

want me to do is self-destruct. But if I

show I'm brave, they'll respect that and

then move on.

But they don't realize is I was pretty

[ __ ] drunk during that whole episode.

Really? Like I was It was We were

recording 11:00 a.m. I was on the

whiskey. Like I had like [ __ ] two

massive glasses full of whiskey

straight. And then I was like, "Right,

let's do this."

And like cuz I knew they were going to

be brutal, but I said, "You have to be

you have to just say every worst thing

cuz then people will leave me the [ __ ]

alone and then I'll really get on with

my depression then." Do you know what I

mean? So that's how I was like

kind of like sensible in planning out my

own self-destruction.

Smart. Yeah.

Yeah. It's very weird. And I've spoken

to other people about this when they've

been in similar situations like when

Logan went through his thing and he was

like, "Yeah, same. I just uh

drank a lot and smoked a lot." That was

that was that was what we both did like

you know. So yeah. So that after that

happened, I then had to um okay, where

do we go from here then? Um and

I had a production company who were

partnered with us at the time who agreed

that they would carry the cost to the

kickoff while we were looking for

another sponsor. So that was very kind

of them. Shout out to Pete. He knows who

he is.

And um we don't get me wrong, those

costs had to be paid back at some point.

So every show is x amount of money.

Every single fee,

you know, and this is the thing that

people forget. I've probably got the

biggest crew on YouTube really. So

there's like 15 people every show who

need paid and every every single time we

do a kickoff show. That cost was

building. My my tax wasn't going

anywhere. I needed a [ __ ] sponsor big

time. Um so that was it was a bad time.

You know what I mean? A lot of pressure.

I think that was the thing. Pressure. I

felt it from every angle, you know.

How how does how does that impact other

areas of your life? I I've heard you

talk about the impact it had on your

sleep,

which I think is something people don't

think about enough cuz I I think sleep

is probably the foundation of your mood,

how you make decisions, and everything

in between. So,

uh probably um

I I still haven't quite mastered that. I

think that's the thing that I think

partly it's cuz when you have your own

business, there's not enough hours in

the day. So you're always like late at

night being like what else can we do?

What else can we do? So I'm [ __ ] at

sleeping and like as soon as I wake up

by the time I've made it to the toilet

for a piss I'm thinking about what we

need to do like I it so that's part of

it. Um but yeah

I I drank myself to sleep to a point

where I was more collapsing rather than

sleeping you know and uh it was awful.

Like

I'm going to play just cuz these are the

questions that come to mind. You're

drinking yourself to sleep, but you're a

smart guy. You know that that's not

good.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. But but at that point, I

cared more about

uh it was like a almost like it was like

a a mathematical equation. It's like

what what is more important right now?

Me being like I didn't care about

myself. I just thought get through the

days cuz so my mom died, right? This is

totally side thing um previously to

that. And I remembered when I got

through that, I did a similar thing

where I would just I drank myself to

sleep for about a month at least. And I

knew if I could just get a few weeks

under my belt, no matter how I got

through it, it would be easier. So I

just had to get to that point. And I

think I'm not re recommending this, by

the way, but few people will go through

the kind of week I went through. So

luckily, it won't be necessary. But

sometimes you've just got to put

distance between you and the event and

daylight will slowly become uh seeable.

I'm not saying it was a good idea.

Yeah. Yeah. This is this is Yeah, it

does. It sounds like kind of

they look good on the movie.

Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, it for me cuz

if those issues aren't ever properly

addressed,

then they kind of reemerge or they

they were they So, I hear you. But

there's a time and a place and right in

the aftermath isn't always the best time

to go and go right let's let's figure

out what went wrong here. It was

emotionally so distressing. I just

thought I am going to [ __ ] every

every waking moment was they're all like

the the whole thing the finances the twe

the all this [ __ ] I couldn't

I couldn't address it at that point. I

couldn't think about it at that point. I

couldn't work out what had gone wrong or

all of that. I just thought, get a

[ __ ] sponsor. Keep doing the shows.

Drink yourself to sleep if you have to.

Just get a [ __ ] sponsor. Keep the

money coming in because right now

without money, you're you're [ __ ] So

[ __ ] Like I'm homeless. You know what

I mean? Like the amount of bills that

were crewing up and the amount of money

I had, I was going to end up like I was

like I might end up [ __ ] wherever.

You know what I mean? Like so it really

wasn't about oh let's go and work

through my problems. It was like let's

put some [ __ ] money in the uh bank.

Yeah.

Was there one day through that period

which you remember as being the most

agonizing one particular day?

Every single day. Every single day was

just as bad as it was like when my mom

died that was what it reminded me of. It

was like I had died almost like

every day I'd wake up. So when my mom

died, I remember wake when I'd wake up,

I'd go. And it was that first moment

when your eyes wake up and you go, "Oh,

it's real. It's it's actually happened."

And that's the moment where when when my

life had ended, it was that moment of

when I'd first wake up, I go, "Oh, it's

it's real. It's real." And then I'd have

to

get up and face the day. You know what I

mean? And just try and block it out.

When I'd go outside, I wore a cap. I'd

try everything I could to to hide who I

was because I felt ashamed that I was

the DM guy or I I used to think of

myself as like a great podcaster,

someone who had changed his life,

brought himself out from and now I was

like being like shamed, laughed at, all

of that [ __ ] So, I just felt so like

humiliated, you know what I mean? I just

didn't feel like me anymore.

When you said you woke up and you the

first couple of seconds you thought it's

real.

Yeah. Does that mean that your sleep was

a place of peace or a place of escapism?

Uh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm asking this question because Tom

Bloomfield from Monzo was sat there and

he talks about being anxious and

depressed for about 2 years and he said

when I'd wake and he literally said he's

he was here last week. He said when I

woke up

for two or three seconds I didn't know

who I was or where I was and those were

the best. And then he said it would just

come crashing back down.

No. So, the best time was when I was

drunk before I went to sleep. That was

the point where I really enjoyed it cuz

I was like, "Oh, it's like I'm not even

here." You know what I mean? So, that

was the best time cuz then nothing felt

I couldn't feel anything. You know what

I mean? That was ideal. That's why I

kept going back there every night. But I

wasn't an alcoholic or anything. It was

that feeling that I was chasing. The I

don't feel pain,

numbness.

Yeah. That was the good bit. you when

your mother passed away,

you didn't talk about it.

No. No. I mean, YouTube's a shitty

place, isn't it? It's a horror. Like, as

I found out the hard way, you know. So,

um, and also, she's just precious to me.

So, I uh I keep it to myself always. Um,

I keep hurt to myself always. I've only

talked about her once online, and that

was the rebuild.

Yeah. And even in even in that video,

which I watched twice, um I still had no

idea when it h when it had happened.

Yeah. Yeah.

Because I was trying to pinpoint if

there was like a change in you or if it

was during your YouTube career, at the

height of your YouTube career before

and and I thought it was, you know, for

a guy that does really pour it out on

the internet. And I've seen you, you

know, when the Logan Paul incident

happened, I watched that video and you

were pouring out your heart in a way

that was

just remarkably vulnerable. And that was

just a secret.

Yeah. But it's it's like um

it's like what I said earlier. I can be

quite cerebral when I have to be and I

can make decisions when I have to be.

Pardon me. For me own me own sake. And

here's the thing. When you love someone

more than anything else in this world,

that matters more than anything. And

where others would have capitalized on a

sub story, she was far too precious for

me to share with anyone. You know, it

wasn't about she was mine. She wasn't

there for anyone else. She was just my

mom. Do you know what I mean? And that's

the way I I plan to keep it. Do you know

what I mean? Um I've I've explained what

she meant to us in that video and how

much I love her. I always will and I

miss her every [ __ ] day, bro. But um

it's just one of those things where I

think to myself certain things I think

you draw the line online, you know, you

have to there has to be some stuff

that's for you. And even if I say,

"Yeah, my mom died and I loved her and

she meant the world to us."

And I and I did try and give some ins

and outs of what my relationship was

like with her so that people could feel

how much feel the love, you know what I

mean? Um,

I didn't want to give everything because

I don't know, it's just too special for

me to to to give everything. Do you know

what I mean? Like that. And I think

that's one thing that some creators

could do with learning as well is like

what is how much value does something

has if you'll just share it with

everyone? And I do think you got to pick

and choose, you know what I mean?

carefully because once you give it,

there's no taking it back. And that's

the problem, isn't it? You know what I

mean? With YouTube, it's like once it's

out there, it's out there. So,

in that video, you say when you're you I

think you've just been fighting with um

is it Vlad's dad?

Oh, with Vidal's dad.

Vidal's dad.

And you I mean you it looks like you've

gone like 12 rounds with him or

something and you fall over and you're

back and you get emotional cuz and he

says, you know, that's what boxing does.

It brings all those emotions back. And

you said a line. You said, "I'm just a a

guy that misses his mom."

Mhm.

Have you ever processed that?

Um, yeah. A lot. A lot. Uh, I've truly

faced

I know everything like about me that's

good, bad. I really face up to my to

everything in my life. You know what I

mean? I know where I've gone wrong. I

know I I really face things head on. and

and with my mom, I I faced it more than

anything because it was it was a

constant in my it it's like losing a

parent if you're especially if it's an

it's an if you're an only child and

there's only one parent, it's um so

severe because it's like I try to

describe it to someone. It was like one

day I went outside and um the whole

world was full of water and people are

swimming around in their scuba gear or

whatever going, "But what what

everything's normal, Brian." I'm like,

"No, no, you don't understand." Like,

like the constants in my life have been

like the sun comes up in the morning, I

breathe air, you know, the moon comes

out at night, my mom loves me. Those

four things like or this is reality. So

to remove one of those components, it

blew my [ __ ] mind like that she

couldn't be here anymore. I was like,

that doesn't make sense to me. You know

what I mean? So, I had to face it and I

and I really have processed it as is and

and I think that's why I never felt the

need to share it either because I was

like, you know, I'm at peace with with

that as hard as it is. It's just part of

my life now. And uh and I and I feel

like

as uh people say things like this, but I

I feel like she's there. I don't I don't

need anything from anyone to make me

feel better because when when a mother

loves her son the way my mother love me,

there's nothing anyone can tell me in

this world about her, about about me,

about us. So, I don't need to share it.

You know what I mean?

You said you had one parent then.

Well, me dad was, you know, around sort

of, but like in and out there, you know,

he's like he's a he was an old school

guy. me dad, you know, like like [ __ ]

shagged around, went to prison, just a

wild man. Um,

but I'm I'm I'm okay with my dad now.

I'm I've just reached a place of like

understanding that my dad's got bipolar

disorder. He's uh he's never going to be

quote unquote normal. Like he's just

that guy. And uh you know he recently

had a a suicide attempt which I had to

phone the ambulance for and that and

it's like what the [ __ ] hell is this?

Like you know what I mean? You're

panicking um hoping he's going to be all

right. He then got sectioned again um

which this was this year you know and uh

you had to phone the ambulance.

Yeah. Yeah. Um

he text me basically a sort of a message

that let me know what was going down you

know. So instantly got in the ambulance

and then you're panicking cuz the

ambulance they're like, "Oh, co co." I'm

like, "Well, you [ __ ] just get

there." Like, "Are you [ __ ] me?" 2

hours it took them to get there. Two

[ __ ] hours. And like it was like a

full-blown suicide attempt. Like the

pills were already gone. You know what I

mean? So, um,

yeah, just like

the it it's stressful, you know? um when

when you go through that and it was I

did a podcast about it because you know

you don't really know what to do like

when my last time my dad was sectioned I

was a [ __ ] child like so I'm now his

next of kin I'm his his parent now in

this situation so he's mentally unstable

coming to me asking me for the answers

I'm trying to run a company and and do

my YouTube videos hey everyone welcome

back

you know what I mean it's [ __ ] mental

and that's one of weird things about uh

being a YouTuber is like I know that

people rely on me for their escape,

but it's sometimes that's why like you

you messaged me to do a podcast around

that time and I said, "Mate, I ain't

doing a [ __ ] podcast right now. I'm

not in it." And I didn't cuz I just said

I'll just be [ __ ] miserable. I mean,

great start anyway. We're talking about

sad stuff.

But yeah, I I I just knew I couldn't I

couldn't do it. You know what I mean?

But um yeah, it's been uh me and my dad

are all right. like he sometimes he just

um

he sees things from a different angle

because he's got bipolar. So it's it's

challenging, you know what I mean, to

get him to see where I'm coming from.

Sometimes

it's so difficult when a when eventually

I think a kid has to kind of forgive

their parents and start parenting their

parents. It's even kind of happened to

me in a strange way because I think my

mom I think my mom has bipolar.

Dude, your mom's such a character. I

heard stories and I'm like,

yeah, I remember being young and and

being told that. Well, I mean, the first

one I wrote in my book is when she came

to the school in her lingerie

when I was like four or 5 years old

because she wanted to put on a show. And

then the other instance that sticks in

my mind, there's one where she chased my

dad through the house with a knife. And

the third one I remember is being told

that she had been locked up because um

they had come to repossess her her

restaurant and she was stood in the

street with a a knife and she was

smashing up her own shop and there was

police in the street and everything and

I I didn't see that. But

we'll have to set them up for a day.

No, but there is you get to a point

where you realize that I'm not going to

have the perfect family that I see in

the films and I'm going to have to

forgive these people who are meant to be

my idols and guardians for their own

flaws,

you know, and I just

Yeah, it's I'm I've made I've I've sort

of I've made peace with my dad's

mistakes in life. Uh it it's difficult

though, you know, you you

it's a really long process of why don't

you love me? Why won't you be like this?

Why aren't you doing that? Why, you

know, and as the years go by, you

realize other people's parents are also

[ __ ] up.

You know, how many people can actually

say they've got two parents who love

each other in a great marriage and have

been great parents. Most people I know

don't have that situation. Even if their

parents are together, it's a [ __ ]

[ __ ] show. So, yeah, people are aren't

perfect. And um I think just accepting

that is a good start to life.

Okay, quick one. One of my best friends

in the world, Francesca, sent me a text

message this week, and I'm going to read

it out to you. She said, "Happy Sunday.

So, we're thinking of joining the Hule

hype. I'm forgetting to eat all of the

time, and I end up eating rubbish, so I

need to sort it out. Any recommendations

to start off with?" And my response to

her was, um, any of the ready to drink

Hules would be my suggestion. Whatever

flavor you think is your preference.

Honestly, Francesca, this is a very,

very good health decision. And she then

replied and said, "Amazing. Excited to

get started on it." Um, and I think that

demonstrates um the genuine, authentic

relationship I have with Hule. I

genuinely depend on Hule um because I'm

prone to missing meals. And when I do

have my meals, sometimes they're not

nutritionally complete to say the least.

I'm definitely not getting my vitamins

if I don't have Hule because a lot of

the food we have today is processed and

it's it's filled with a lot of bad

stuff. So, Hule has been a lifesaver of

mine for 3 years. And as I've said

before, it's such a joy to have a

sponsor that you genuinely believe can

help people change their lives if they

would only start using the product. So,

let's get back to the podcast. Anxiety

is a really interesting topic. I've been

involved in this mental health company

for some time now. A Thai and I've just

got really fascinated about the concept

of anxiety.

Oh, it's [ __ ] horrible.

Just I and I've experienced it as well.

I've I've

Oh, yeah. Been there.

Tell me about your experience with

anxiety.

Um,

and when And was it later in your life

that you first?

Uh, I think the first time I'd had

anxiety was after my mom died in the in

the immediate. I didn't know what was

going on. I just remember being in the

room and saying to my mates, "My chest

is getting really tight. I'm I feel like

I'm struggling to breathe." And I was

like, "Uh, and then, you know, the

doctors hired us some volume and [ __ ]

I think I had that with some alcohol at

the same time." And that that was when

the forcing myself to sleep sort of was

was started. But um as I got older

um

I realized

uh through the YouTube thing

just like

being known is is a really weird thing

particularly obviously around that time

with the the fall of True Jordy as I

called it on the video. Uh lots of

anxiety and depression. Um and it is

just such a horrible feeling to go

through. cuz it feels very serious at

the time.

Yeah.

But it it is in your head, isn't it?

Really?

You've been very open about your and I

don't want to continue on this topic cuz

we got a lot of lot to talk about.

You've been very open about your

depression and suicidal ideation.

And

one thing that I haven't quite managed

to get over in your head is what you

said earlier where you said one of the

things that actually made you hang in

there was that people didn't want you to

hang in there.

And that's the fire.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I I I like I sort of

there there was a there was a tweet that

was tweet tweeted at me. It's such a

weird little confession. Uh where a guy

went um I've heard about your financial

issues or whatever he said in his tweet

and it couldn't happen to a better guy

and I've got like a dark sense. I sort

of smirked at it and I thought in my

head I thought I know I am not beaten.

like I just know it and I and I know I'm

going to be rich and I know shit's going

to go come back around. So I just

screenshotted the tweet and I remember

thinking I'm going to use that as like

an air freshener on a Ferrari or

something. You know what I mean? Like I

have this like

I don't know. You know what I mean? Like

I want to prove people wrong and and and

I think that drive at the start was a

lot of that was like when I started

YouTube so many people like the [ __ ] is

this idiot doing like shouting on his

camera and all that. So then all of a

sudden there was that that that

negativity came in droves, [ __ ]

thousands of tweets. Um,

and yeah, it was sort of a weird like,

oh, it's like starting the game again,

but like on a different level. So I'm

like, okay, now I'm [ __ ] but I've

been [ __ ] worse before. So like it's

kind of like a all right, let's let's

use this a bit. So, but to sort of

uh

yeah, the depression, it's it's like

it's awful and it's so negative and you

think about like I was thinking about

suicide on a daily basis at one point. I

was, you know, I'm sorry if this is

bringing people down when they listen to

this, but um you know, I was really

seriously contemplating it in in a way

of like here's what I would do. And and

and when the anxiety attacks were coming

over me, it was just an awful way of

living. And I honestly don't know how I

got through what I got through. Like I

looking back at it. Uh it was [ __ ]

mental. Um

I've never been um to that point.

So when I hear people talking about it,

it just it's like incomprehendable to me

that you could get to the point where

you think the best route is to end your

life.

So

yeah, I mean looking looking at it at

the time, I thought I had what was like

situational depression where I'm in this

horrible situation and that's why I'm

depressed, which was partly true

obviously, but I was also chemically

depressed as well. Like there was what I

now realize is

through that my mom dying other trauma

in my life I definitely had chemical

depression like I needed I needed

medication you know um but um I sort of

um didn't believe in it. Didn't want to

do it. Didn't think it would work

uh for me, you know. And also like when

you're a guy who's um lives in his head

and thinks, you know, I'm a smart guy,

yada yada yada, you sort of you're

worried it's going to change the way you

think and make you a bit what if it

makes me dumber, you know, some

something silly like that or you hear

about other people's bad experiences on

it, like [ __ ] your libido, all of this

sort of weird [ __ ] puts weight on you.

There's just all sorts of little fears.

So,

um, it had to get so bad, uh, before I

would try medication. But like one day

it got bad enough where I was like I I

realized I thought I'm definitely going

to do it sooner otherwise. Um, I I'm

going to have to I was like frightened

almost like as a kind of like as a

friend of me if that makes sense. Like

I'm I was frightened for me cuz I was

like you're really going to [ __ ] do

this here soon. like uh the way I was

thinking and the way my life was going

and the way I was feeling about small

things that really are like you know

when people sort of push your buttons a

little bit the way that was making me

feel was awful like I was shouting at my

friends and my crew and uh when someone

was challenging me in any way the the

fear and anxiety was bubbling underneath

it was just overwhelming and I had like

really bad nightmares and I'd wake up in

the morning. And I remember just waking

up one morning just being like, "Oh, I

really don't want to live anymore." And

that was when I was like on the phone to

the doctor and I was like, "Give us

whatever the [ __ ] you've got cuz I'm

willing to try anything now." And uh

thank [ __ ] you know. Um so they uh they

prescribed us some anti-depressants

and I'm really [ __ ] glad I tried

them, mate. Honestly,

you called the doctor yourself.

Mhm.

One night, one morning.

Uh it was in the morning. No, it was

you woke up and thought I need to call

Yeah. I just knew I thought I'm like I'm

I'm I'm a liability to myself here. And

it was like the fear of oh [ __ ] you're

getting dangerously close. Like you like

thoughts become things, right? So like

we we know that because when we

challenge our um channel our brains in

an ambitious way, we can make magic

happen. But also

if I'm thinking negatively, I can go to

the worst possible place. And I really

knew I was like almost manifesting it

because it I was spending so I there was

so many times it would pass through my

head if oh well I'll just kill myself.

Oh well I'll just kill myself. Oh like

if this doesn't happen if this doesn't

happen if this doesn't happen. It was it

was becoming an answer. It was becoming

a solution to all of the problems that

felt like they were mounting on my

shoulders and stuff like that. Um, so

yeah.

Um, and when I took the medication, that

was when it really dawned on me like,

oh, that wasn't just cuz of what I've

been through or it was a it was yeah,

post-traumatic stress disorder and all

sorts of other [ __ ] but it was also

like a chemical imbalance probably in

the brain where my serotonin levels were

real low. Um, and you know, I was

desperate, so I'm glad I took them. I

never see you

meditate, go on holiday, relax, chill

out,

go to the jungle. I was in the jungle

and you you messaged me and said, "Oh, I

need a little bit of that."

Yeah. I mean, you look like you were

having a a whale of a [ __ ] time. Um

Yeah, but

I am on like a treadmill, you know what

I mean? like and I'm not quite at that

point of um

financial um

what I want from life financially. I

haven't quite clinched that

moment of

Will you ever

upset? Yeah, I will. I will.

You think so?

Yeah. Yeah.

Cuz I don't think I have.

Um you No, but

doesn't it?

Yeah. But we're at different points, you

know what I mean? Sort of like um

financially speaking. Um, I'm nearly

there. I think I'm I'm getting there. I

I've got a really good organized team

now. Money is is sorting itself out. And

it's like if I just carry on the way I'm

going, we'll be okay. And then I can

have those moments where I go now. I'm

going to rest. I'm going to enjoy

myself. But yeah, I don't I don't

meditate. I don't uh

you know,

how do you relax?

um glass of wine and um I say a glass of

bottle of wine. Uh but you know um

were you ever taught how to relax?

No, not really. I I feel like I don't

really re like the minute I put out

something I'm really happy with. I get

this feeling of like content. Like I'm

like, "Oh, that's class. That that's a

really good piece of work that I'm

really happy with that." But then like

10 minutes will go by and that'll be

when I'm like, "Okay, what what we doing

next then?" You know what I mean? And I

think like, you know, we have that in

common for sure. And I no doubt that

when when I hit that point where I'm

financially secure,

I'll still carry on being a bastard. But

I will chill out more. I will I will

chill out more. And I'm already chilling

out more since I started the

anti-depressants actually. like in terms

of the way I behave like all of those

I'm so much more in control of myself

now my anger my

ups and downs like you know there are

everything's a lot more relaxed and and

I communicate in a way that's not as um

like you know there was times where

people would piss me off and I would

just not even look at them because I

would be so frustrated that when I'd

tell them I wouldn't I wouldn't even be

able to look at them cuz I'd be like I

want to punch you right now So, I'm not

going to look, you know what I mean?

Like, I I I just exude anger. Even when

I was trying to hold it back, it was

there obvious

and I don't want people who work with me

to feel like they're working with a

[ __ ] lunatic. You know what I mean?

So, the the anti-depressants have been a

godsend. And um that's really helped me

communicate and now now if I have an

issue, I just sit down and I'm just

honest and calm and I just go, here's

what's gone wrong. Here's what I think

we should do better. if you want to hear

tell me what I need to do better. I'm

more ears and it's like I'm a different

I'm a better person now. You know what I

mean? Still not the finished article by

any means. Got lots of work to do. But

it just made me realize like my and it

it goes back ironically to to the

trolls, you know, even even the trolls

who gave me all that [ __ ] It's like

when you're really unhappy within

yourself, it comes out everywhere. And

and that was really what was happening

to me. I was like, and part of it

actually made my YouTube videos good cuz

like the pain that like that fall of

True Jordy video, uh, it it was just I

just said, Lawrence, you need to [ __ ]

sit down and I need to sit down cuz I've

got so much [ __ ] I want to say right

now. And if I don't get this out there,

I'm going to [ __ ] explode, so we're

doing this. It wasn't thought out or

anything. Um,

but it brings Sometimes it's like that

struggling artist thing, isn't it?

People like that a little bit, like to

feel like they're battling something. So

it makes the videos better. So it worked

in my favor a little bit.

I just I've just come to I mean from my

own experiences and I'm sure you've

heard this heard me say this before just

when I when I was insecure, broke and

striving to be rich and successful upon

actually getting there I realized that

that was totally unfulfilling because it

just moves off into the future. And so

when I what I think I've come to learn

maybe is happiness is in fact finding

peace today irrespective of uncompleted

goals. That's definitely in my head as

well. Peace.

That word peace

today.

Yeah. Like

in even in the last month actually I

remember thinking I only want to be

around people who are who make me feel

peaceful. If you bring drama, if you

bring aggro stress, you can [ __ ] off

because I'm trying to turn over a new

leaf now and not deal like.

And I think a lot of people just did not

realize like while they were heaping

stuff onto my plate because I'm the

mountain of a man who can handle

anything apparently

that I was at [ __ ] breaking point and

I just wasn't saying it, you know?

Whereas now I'm saying it. I'm like,

"No, I'm not doing that." like you know

the other day one of the lads in the

team said it was um oh um it was about

research or something like you know for

graphic design and stuff and and me mate

went it was um oh it would help if you

if you had a look and I said would Joe

Rogan's team tell him to do that

or do your own research Joe you know and

and now I'm just very much like he has

the standards this is what we do and you

know

and are you still do you think this is

what really what I'm getting at here is

do you think you're still attaching some

happiness to the future attainment of

some goal or or this is this is scary

it's it's it's

healthy in a way because it's like

I'm not under the illusion that the

minute I hit the big number that all of

a sudden I'm going to um that will make

me happy but the freedom that that

number will then give me is what I'm

looking for.

Freedom from what?

Freedom to freedom of choice. Freedom to

do whatever I want with my life. Right

now, I'm a slave to the game. The game

for me right now is I've got the all

these shows, all these brands that I'm

trying to build. I'm doing the fighting.

I've got the kickoff, the football

brand. I've got the podcast and other

things I'm working on as well, like my

poker and and stuff and Twitch.

I am on a treadmill where every single

week I have to do I'm contracted to do

this show, this show, this show.

I'm the most consistent YouTuber in the

UK. It's just nobody really realizes it

because it's kind of always been that

way. I've always been that the guy like

even though I slowed the podcast down in

terms of like the amount of videos I've

been putting out, it's been insane from

for years now. Um

so I I have to do them because I'm not

at a point of financial freedom. And

even when I am, I might still carry on.

But it would be nice to have the option

to go, "Yeah, I'm going to do this and

and yeah, I'm going to interview that

guy." Hey, if I want to interview a guy

in America, I can stop the kickoff cuz I

just don't want to do it this week or

I'll let my other boys do it and I'm

going to go to LA and interview Joe

Rogan. You know, I'd love to have the ab

I can't do that. I'm chained to my

content and I love my content

fortunately and I love the people I'm

around.

But if I if I if if I didn't, it would

be really hard.

Got you. I've I've been thinking a ton

about this. It's actually again the last

chapter in in um in the book I was

writing and I I think my conclusion

my my book's actually quite similar.

Yours called Happy Sexy Jordy.

Is it? Where'd you get the name from?

No, it's just that last I was I thought

so much about ambition and my conclusive

point was when you realize that you are

enough and you actually don't need more

money or you don't need more external

validation that foundation is such a

contradiction right that when you

realize that you're actually you've got

everything you need then you then the

result is true ambition not ambition to

impress girls with a Lamborghini not

ambition to prove everyone wrong but you

go after the things that you actually

genuinely give a [ __ ] about and when you

get to the point where you are you know

that you're enough, then you start to go

for things just for the sake of like the

intrinsic intelligence.

That's what I'm talking about, bro. That

that's where I am. It's like I know I

want to get there,

but I'm not there yet. And and when when

I get that

big [ __ ] off deal, that's insane.

Then I can be like, I mean,

unfortunately, that'll mean more work,

but um there you go. Right.

But but I'll have the money to then have

that in um bring the plane into land

eventually and go, "Okay, now what do I

want to do?" M

um ultimately the funny thing is I'm

doing what I want to do now. I'm just

doing a lot more of it than probably

physically I should be. You know what I

mean? It would be nice to have a bit

more bigger a bigger team is really what

I'd like to do is put put invest more

into the team and have like more people

to help me cuz

me and the boys we do a lot.

It's funny because it feels like the

snowball then gets bigger as it's

rolling down the hill. possibly

add five more people then that means

more brand obligations to pay for them.

Do you know what it is though? It would

make me so [ __ ] happy to be um I I

know this is like I I get why this is

[ __ ] but it's also like it's enough

for me.

Even people from Newcastle have like

underestimated me. Even people who

should be championing me and supporting

me are telling me I ain't [ __ ] So just

to like go beyond what anyone could even

imagine, it would be such a [ __ ]

ride. And ultimately, that's all I want

to do at the end is look back and go,

"Fuck me. I showed those [ __ ] didn't

I?" Like, and and have a good laugh and

spend time with my friends, make great

videos. That's what I want to do.

What What What are your ambitions now

then? I don't think you've you know,

you've signed this deal with um

obviously Gym Shark, which is great, and

you've you've done a deal with Beats,

which is great. You're over on Twitch

now. Poker stars as well. Shout out

poker stars. Got to love poker stars.

What is the big when you talk about that

big, you know, vision that you have in

your mind of where you will be in 5 10

years from now. What is that?

Um

I feel like I've I'm in a bit of a

unique situation

in that I want to kind of be the king of

multiple different things. And uh it's

going to be interesting to see how that

that goes. Uh, I think I'm the best

podcaster currently um about uh aside

from Joe Rogan. No offense to your good

f

I think you're very good. Um, and uh,

you know, I want to kill the podcast

game, but that's been something that

I've had to

uh in the in in the past when that [ __ ]

happened, I I kind of had to put that

back and go, where where's the money

going to come from? and sports is a lot

easier to make money out of. So I I I

went full steam ahead with the kickoff.

I think I've got something really

special with the kickoff.

That to me is the the future of

football in terms of how people will

consume it in the UK. That that show the

the brand, the kickoff, the the the

personalities I've got there. I'm

working on rebranding it right now. You

know, Gillette Soccer Saturday is dying

a death. I seen it coming in my off

soccer is so [ __ ] like they've all

piled like there's what they're

happening in that space right now.

There's so many YouTube channels they're

faking their views. They you I know them

all. They they've got all the big brands

Budweiser, you're getting robbed. I'm

just saying that right now. You want to

check the [ __ ] Why have Why have

certain YouTube channels switched the

likes off, switch the views, switch the

comments off? Cuz they're [ __ ] buying

views and stuff like that. what we've

got is so authentic and real. My studio,

I've spent hundreds of thousands of

pounds on the equipment in there. We've

we we've got something special there.

So, it's just about watering it and and

letting it grow. And if I build the team

right, I think we could like No one can

[ __ ] with us. Like, everyone's copying

us. Everyone's copying the kickoff. No

one can copy the kickoff. They're all

wasting their time. All they do is make

us look better.

their [ __ ] attempts at the kickoff make

us look 10 times stronger. So with that

one, I think we've got something really

special there. And I'm surprised

a huge brand has not seen that yet, like

an Amazon or or a Google or whoever the

[ __ ] you know, cuz all right, we swear

on there, but we are killing it, you

know, and and credit to Twitch. They did

see it and you know, I'm proud of that.

But the potential for that brand, I just

think is enormous. I just like I say,

I've been through so many financial

struggles while keeping that going. I

haven't really been in a had a chance to

put it in third gear yet, but I'm we're

getting there. Um, and then there's the

fighting. I feel like thanks to Logan

Paul and KSI, they've put me in a really

particular position where I really know

fighting, but I also know the

entertainment side of fighting. And as

as boxing moves towards that direction

and and MMA as well and my history of

loving boxing in UFC, I can really nail

down a special place in that where you

know live streamwise

where we're number one on fighting and

football. How weird is it that there's

one guy in the world who does a live

stream on football and he's got the

number one audience and fighting? You

know, that alone puts me in a really

unique position without having to talk

about the podcast where it's Ricky Jace

one week, it could be Camaro Usman, UFC

champion the next, Tyson Fury, Logan

Paul.

Do you think you've got the credit you

deserve?

I I definitely don't. No.

Why?

Um

I don't know. I don't know. Um,

I think, you know, I just did an

interview, for example, with Kamar Usman

and

the older I get and the wiser I get and

the better at questioning I get and the

and and the better I get as an

interviewer and leading the the guest

and and taking them on that journey.

My emotional compassionate side is

really another gear that I have that

other interviewers. I just, you know,

I've always aspired to be like Joe

Rogan, but Joe Rogan has things I don't

and I have things he doesn't. He knows

everything about everything. This guy

can talk to anyone. I I just don't have

that. But my emotional compassionate

side, my empathy, I think, gives me

something else. And on that on that

interview, I got so many comments

because it was one of the first

interviews I've done, which was the same

guest Joe Rogan had.

I saw the comments and loads people

going, "You did,

you [ __ ] outdid Joe Rogan with that

one." And I knew I did. And I don't mean

that as a disrespect cuz he's like a god

to me. But on that one, it really showed

because

I just did a totally different

interview. And um and I I'm Joe is

always going to be the goat to me, but

sometimes even the goat can be got and I

can get him every every now and then.

And I and I'm he he's aspire to to to be

on every podcast, you know? So maybe I

don't know. I don't know what the [ __ ]

it's going to take. Um I don't know if

it's cuz I'm I feel like it's cuz I'm

working class and I don't necessarily

like some people just get credit thrown

at them. Like Mr. Beast, wow, you spent

loads of money on a video. Uh, what's

the other [ __ ] who's always surprised

and his friends with cars? I don't give

a [ __ ] Like, with all due respect, you

don't impress me. None of like, you

know, your creativity is bang average,

you know? Like, I could turn up with

[ __ ] money and buy a car for a

friend. You know what I mean? So, I'm

trying to tell stories like with the

fall of True Jordy, with the rebuild,

with the podcasts, th that content is

like I poured my heart and soul into it.

I edited it with my editor, Gio. Shout

out to him. Amazing editor. We sat

together and did frame by frame. I do

the grade. I [ __ ] everything. Like

every minute detail I care about. Why

does my podcast look different everyone

else? Cuz I care. And I will literally

go and go, "Right, we're going to do the

grade. We're going to do the sound. That

doesn't sound right." And I I every

[ __ ] detail I care about. So, it

frustrates me that I'm not where I think

I should be because the numbers are

there, the deals are there, but the

critical acclaim for whatever reason

isn't there. And I guess it's cuz I

swear and I'm not like mainstream

worthy. Like, I'm never I'm never going

to be the kid who Jonathan Ross invites

on or, you know, I'm not and I don't

want to I don't give a [ __ ] about being

wellknown on telly. I don't want to go

on it particularly. Um, and it's not

because there's anything wrong with it.

It's just I'm happy where I am, you

know. But, um, I don't know what it's

going to take, bro. Feel like I've got

to move a [ __ ] mountain.

No, I know. I I I was thinking about it

then cuz I agree with everything you

said in terms of the influence you have.

And I and you I also agree that you are

the best podcast in this country. And

really, you were the one of the real

pioneers of a certain style of

podcasting, but also on the kickoff,

right? You're a real pioneer there. But

from what I've learned about company

valuations and even how brands do deals,

it's the way that it is packaged.

Yeah. And look, I'm not greasing the

wheels of these companies. And that's

definitely a thing I need to do better

because you talk about certain YouTube

channels. Yeah. Certain YouTube channels

will take people out for dinner. They'll

smoo. They'll do all of that [ __ ] And

I'm clearly not doing that. But like

credit to the companies who have

invested in me cuz I've just went,

"Look, I'm the best." and and and and

you know, I learned how to do decks

myself. I was I've done decks. I do all

my own decks.

You shouldn't be. I I sell I Well, I've

just hired a guy, so he's going to do

them from now on. But the point is is

like I got I've done all right, you

know.

Yeah, you've done really well. I've done

well.

I don't I'm going to say it. You're not

getting the credit you deserve.

Yeah. And and it's, you know,

and you're not getting the money you

deserve either. I

It's [ __ ] frustrating, bro. like, you

know,

I don't know what money you're getting,

but I know it's not what you deserve.

No. Yeah. Trust me, bro. It ain't what I

No, I'm credit to the partners we've got

cuz they've looked after us.

Um particularly

um Gym Shark and Poker Stars and Twitch.

Um I'm grateful for for those people to

be uh partnered with us. But yeah, I I I

definitely feel like where where I am is

not reflected. Um but yeah, I need to do

the the the sch smoozing [ __ ] a lot

better. and and the deck side of things.

We've built that out and we're packaging

up and branding wise I need to be a bit

more

there's a lot of rich old white dudes

who sign the [ __ ] checks who I need

to be more friendly towards. I and I get

that. I don't even think you do. I think

you need a bunch of rich old white dudes

to be friendly with rich old white

dudes. And I think you should probably

call your company like true true

entertainment. You put it all under

there.

If they value it as a YouTube channel,

you're getting paid X. If they value you

as a media company, a Buzzfeed or a Vice

which I am.

Yeah, you are.

Which I am,

but you're not present. You're not

packaged like that. You're packaged as a

YouTube channel. Vice is worth five like

I don't know. No, it's it was 1.5

billion.

Yeah.

Like if you think about the influence

and reach, you're probably up there with

Vice, but you you're branded

differently. You're branded as a YouTube

channel. So, and and I've done all this

on a shoestring as well, bro. This I've

been in like I've been in debt with the

tax man. I got that rug pulled out from

under me with the deal. I've had to

scramble to get other deals. I had to

pay off the production company, all the

money I owed them. You know, you know

that one who kept us going after the

deal. I had to pay them off and then I

went solo and got my own production

company set up.

So, we are beginning which is the

obviously the concept where the

promotion with the distribution. We are

a [ __ ] media company. It's just

[ __ ] frustrating because I don't know

whose dick I've got to suck to get

[ __ ] respect around here. Um, but I I

should be a multi [ __ ] millionaire

right now. Balling out of control.

Not balling out of control. We are

I should be going back down to the

[ __ ] Audi garage now. Yeah, I'm

pissed off. And and I think that chip on

my shoulder is a healthy thing in a way

because it'll just keep driving me to

get that respect I deserve and

ultimately to get the money to look

after the people I care about. And

that's that's the goal. It ain't about

like ultimately yes I've got an ego.

Yes, I want to be respected. Yes. But I

could quit all that as long as I get the

money to secure everyone who all my team

all of that. You know what I mean?

And you 100% own your your formats.

Absolutely. Yeah. I pulled up on

Heineken because they used the kickoff

trademark and said, "I want my [ __ ]

money."

Really?

Yeah. Shout out to Hinekin. They paid me

off.

Oh, they

Yeah, they they used the kickoff and um

I was like the kickoff, the European

Champions League night uh on with

Heineken and I'm like, "What the fuck?"

Uh tweeted them and uh and yeah, I had

everyone [ __ ] oh, can we make this go

away? And uh but to be fair, the gaffer