I predict this mega micro penis war is

going to get worse and I am here for it.

>> Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York

Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast

Network. I'm Cara Swisser

>> and I'm Scott Callaway.

>> Scott, have you recovered from South by

Southwest at

>> I'm still basking in the glow. I thought

it was great.

>> It was good. Yeah, I had a good time in

the end. It was really fun. Um, what was

your favorite highlight of it?

>> My favorite highlight, um,

>> besides our time together,

>> the way Representative Talerico

described masculinity and he talks about

his father, I guess, used to come home

on Sunday and immediately change and

then mow their lawn and then without

ever talking about it, just went next

door and mowed the lawn of this old

ladies and thought and he described

>> that really struck you. You mentioned it

at the show that way. Did you did Did

you ever mow people's lawns, Scott?

>> I used to mow lawns for money, but I I

didn't do it. I showed up to the house

before I mowed a lawn and said, "Hey,

seven bucks in Ohio and I'll mow your

lawn."

>> Oh, wow.

>> And I had a manual lawn mower and I was

all of about 120 lbs pushing a manual

lawn mower around.

>> So you you were not taught to mow

people's lawns?

>> No, I was taught to make money. I My dad

was like, "Go make money." My my son got

a um a job at a taco truck last summer.

>> It was so good for him. Um you know, so

many Anyways, I think chores chores,

jobs, and sports. I mean, anyways, and

>> anyway, the reason I'm asking is cuz

it's introspecting when you're

introspection. Well, I've gotten I I've

gotten much more introspective just to

today I'm here in Tulum and I've had

some time to

>> really contemplate and I've decided to

it's time for me at this age, Cara. It's

time for me Life is finite. It's time

for me to start to start living my

dream. So, I'm going to start showing up

for tests I'm not prepared for naked.

>> Well, as always, so you're in the Mark

Andre school. Have you heard about this

situation, Mark? Let me just say what it

is. Mark Andre, who I really don't like

anymore. I didn't like that much then,

but he's really become such a troll. He

said uh on the he's an a famous he's he

was part of the Netscape browser thing.

I wouldn't say he was the only person.

He did take a lot of credit. Um but uh

important entrepreneur in Silicon Valley

um and etc. Now he's a venture

capitalist. On the founders podcast with

David Senra, he said, "My goal is zero

introspection as little as possible. 400

years ago it would never occur to

anybody to be introspective like the

whole idea I mean just all the modern

conceptions around introspection and

therapy and all the things that kind of

result uh from that are kind of

manufactured 1910s 1920s uh this is very

much in line with him being an expert on

everything. He used to lecture me about

things he knew nothing about a lot. Um

it all it says to me is this man is in

desperate need of therapy. Um to you

know he's just trying to be like I don't

think about anything. Um, and I find it

I found it very uh dystopian and I find

him dystopian in general. Um, but this

idea that introspection is a weakness

again is not masculine. It's not

feminine. It's not h human I think in

some way.

>> Yeah. I think it's important to

occasionally,

you know, do do some sort of I don't

know pondering. I, you know, ask

yourself ask yourself if you could only

bring one thing to a desert island, what

would you bring? And I decided the

answer is I wouldn't go.

>> No.

>> Uh I need edibles streaming media and my

plane car.

>> Mhm.

>> Um no. Look, look, in all seriousness,

it's as if these guys

>> Mhm.

>> Alman and Andre hired a publicist, the

brightest comms person in the world, and

said, "How do we convince humanity we're

bad for humanity?"

>> Right. Right. And this notion that

technology requires less energy to get

to a point of critical thinking than a

human is just so nihilist and so weird.

And then introspection is how we move

forward as a species.

>> It was like Socrates, Plato, Marcus

Aurelius, like it's been around. He's

like, "Oh, it's just the 1910s." He's so

ignorant. Like the idea introspection is

a critical element of all philosophy

going back. Also, by the way, Jesus test

the Bible. It's all about thinking about

>> reflecting on how you become a better

introspection is why we have the

Marshall Plan and why people reconnect

with their family members. Introspection

is how you

>> try to become a better person and

realize the errors of your actions and

that your actions have ramifications and

what can you do to be leave the world a

better place. It

>> Yeah.

>> And it's it's indicative again of this

faright

performative. I won't even call it

masculinity, but macho that I don't

care. I just plow ahead because I'm such

a baller.

>> Yeah.

>> It's just so It's just like, okay,

>> it's crazy. I I I I don't like my

grandmother didn't introspect a lot. She

grew up in the depression, right? She

didn't wonder if she was happy. I think

she was probably could have been

happier, right? That kind of thing. And

there's there's an element to that. But

this idea that this the idea of

thoughtfulness has not been around since

the dawn of time drives me

crazy. The second thing is look this guy

has a very famously doesn't speak to his

family right like there's all manner of

upness that is buried very deep

in this particular person who has

influence on other who has massive

influence on everybody else and you know

he's like a he's an emotional uh I don't

want to use you know he's just a tiny

little man from a from a soul point of

view like extraordinarily small um and I

find it really just bragging about it is

is the last is you know he's the one

that said we should fight more like we

should physically fight like as if he

could get in a fight with anybody he'd

lose in a second but this it's just they

just you're right they they're trying to

be villains or something by the way the

the main villain in the Marvel movies is

quite introspective FYI but go ahead

>> well I would argue that probably I mean

people would say the greatest mind of

the 20th century is Einstein but they

should take could play take a page from

the playbook of the greatest

>> arguably the greatest technologist

>> of the 20th century. And that was

someone who not only had a vision for

technology but but could bring together

people to what was at that moment

develop and deploy the most important

technology in history or at least the

most profound and that was Oenheimer and

he was hugely introspective.

>> So was Einstein. If you read some of

this,

>> they were hugely introspective. They

were they were really worried about what

about the the ramifications of their

actions and how they could spend the

rest of their lives trying to, you know,

they didn't just say the the in

introspection isn't some AI guy who

vests his shares and then scares the

out of the world as he pieces out

to the cotzora. That is not

introspection. Mhm.

>> Uh Bill Gates for all the Bill

Gates is getting and a lot of it is

warranted.

>> He is a he decided I have become the

wealthiest person in the world at that

moment.

>> I am smart. What could I do with my

resources to impact millions of people?

And he started distributing.

>> He decided I think I can stop malaria in

a continent.

>> That is introspection.

>> Yeah. Anyway, it's it's it's led to a

lot of very funny memes, you know,

Marcus Andronicus and then nothing. It's

called nothing. What a soulless empty

person. And these are not where we

should be getting clues as we go

forward. That's just my feeling. And I

think one of the more damaging figures

uh from a from in terms of training

young men uh at Silicon Valley is this

guy. He's not someone to follow. Let me

just say I've known him since he was

very young and he and he's progressed

negatively and and backwardly in a way

that's really quite depressing. Uh oddly

enough in in in relation and then we'll

finish up on this. I had lunch at South

by Southwest with Mark Cuban. What a

person who has developed in a really He

was telling me all about his cosplush,

the passion around it.

>> Um I just was like,

>> he also looks great, by the way.

>> He looks great. Yeah, he's eating clams.

That's another story.

>> Jesus, did he bore you with that story?

I had to suffer through that. He buys on

Amazon.

>> Yeah, I Let's not get into it. We We'll

have him on to talk about it at some

point. He's trying to get protein.

>> If oysters means GLP1, I believe it. I

seriously I met with him and Michael

Dell and they're both claiming that

they're playing a lot of Pedell and I'm

like your old you could eat you right

now. Pedel my ass.

>> Pedell. Anyway, they um I just was like

I had a wonderful talk about uh

prescription drugs about life about his

kids. Like what a It was such a

difference like he is the opposite of of

like a good man trying to add value.

>> Yeah, exactly. Anyway, uh we have to

move on but Mark honestly stopped all of

you. Alex Karp said a number of things

stupid things like stop talking all of

you stop talking because what you say is

nonsensical and actually makes you look

so stupid and pathetic that it's I'm

just here to help you on that issue

anyway

>> but look even if you're religion you're

supposed to reflect on some of it is

somewhere Jesus

>> if Jesus could feed the world with two

fishes and a loaf you know if you really

think about it that's tapas

I mean, peace out. Peace out.

>> All right, let's move on. I can't do any

better than that. I can't do any better

than that.

>> Okay. Um, as of this recording, oil

prices in the morning,

>> that's a segue.

>> That's a segue in the in a more real

situation. Uh, prices of oils over $119

a barrel at one point following attacks

on energy sites in the Gulf. President

Trump has been lashing out at US allies

this week demanding they send warships

to help secure the Strait of Hormuz. Uh

the response has been quote global

raspberry as one analyst put it. We're

seeing also the first resignation over

this war. Counterterrorism official Joe

Kent stepped down saying Iran posed no

imminent threat. Of course he went on

Tucker Carlson. His he's of that ilk. He

has some he has some problems himself.

But nonetheless, he quickly went on

Tucker Carlson to discuss his departure

because this is like the train, the

right-wing MAGA train if you're going in

one direction. Meanwhile, the Pentagon

is asking the White House to approve

$200 billion request for Congress to

fund the Iran war. I think of an entire

I think Joe Biden was 180 billion for

like years long wars or whatever.

Defense Secretary Pete Hex says just

said in a briefing that the number could

move because it takes money to kill bad

guys. Speaking of introspection, what an

idiot. Um, uh, the next move, what

happens here? Trump also said this week,

by the way, that a former president told

him he regretted not bombing them, but

all the former living presidents denied

saying that. So, I guess he's talking to

himself. I mean, they've denied it.

Like, he's such a liar. It's astonishing

like what this guy does. Um, obviously

either cognitive or just a liar. I'm not

sure. Where do you think what do you

think's happening here now? Let's have a

quick update. Well, I mean, the mother

of all understatements is it's

complicated. Look, I think the fatal

flaw of the Trump administration is they

don't recognize our power as a species

and as a country. And that is as

powerful as we are, we're only a third

of the world's GDP, but because we were

seen as the good guys and innovators,

and that we did

embrace this notion that if we can make

you wealthier and more peaceful,

ultimately that wealth and peace will

return home in the form of you buying

our trucks and being our ally. And we

can put a military base there. And the

operating system of 60 or 70% of the

world was US laws, military flows of

energy, general rule of law, even

democracies, even laws and justice

systems were based off the US model. And

to to his lesser extent, the British

model, it just got evolved. We were sort

of 2.0. And he's decided, no, with 30%,

I can go at it alone. And what he's

found is all of a sudden he's 1/3 versus

2/3. And this is just when my we, you

know, we warn my son not to take

grapefruit juice into the to the living

room with the brand new couch and he

tells us, "Don't be an idiot. I can

handle it." And then he screams, "Dad, I

need help." And I know exactly what's

happened. It's just

>> Yeah, he spilled the grape juice.

>> Well, what do you know? We're going to

I'm going to do this unilaterally. I'm

not going to go to the UN. I mean, talk

>> Gulf won. George Bush put together a

coalition of I think 31 countries. He

got UN authorization and he got the

allies to pay 62 of the 707 $70 billion

in cost. That war cost

>> and at great and at great sacrifice for

many of them and of course he's been

downplaying their sacrifice and they're

now like literally saying no and by the

way and if you get come out of NATO fine

like they're now at that point I mean

you know whatever

>> he asked China for help and by the way

>> China's ships are flowing through. So

the notion that he's going to quote

unquote an enemy or nemesis going to

people he's been really rude to. I mean

this is just and they didn't anticipate

that they wouldn't be able to count on

their allies.

I I

>> didn't anticipate the Iran push back the

strength of the I mean he was advised by

by the way pretty much stories coming

out now are like he was told this he was

told this he was told they would do this

they would close the straight moves.

like everyone's leaking their the

out of things which is really I mean

what's interesting I I know it's the

smallest part of it but the lie about

presidents was weird was just weird like

why would you say that and then they all

say no and it looks like he's it's a lie

or he's talking to himself or whatever

it the whole thing seems like lies come

out of his mouth every day now that are

easily checkable like easily checkable

lies and that don't really work and so

Something's going on. Something's

happening in a way that's I mean, I

don't want to give him an excuse. Maybe

he's just a malevolent prick, but it

seems problematic that he's leading this

coalition of the one.

>> When you hire incompetent conspiracy

theorists, which is what Joe Kent is.

>> Mhm.

>> I mean, this is very upsetting for me as

someone, you know, quite frankly, as a

Jew, and that is

>> he immediately said that

>> that basically the largest military in

the world in the United States is being

manipulated by Jews. Mhm.

>> And this just plays into a very

anti-semitic trope being fermented on

the far right. And I don't I don't Megan

Kelly, there's a bunch of them, right?

>> Yeah. That this is all be this is all

Jews fault.

>> Yeah.

>> That is just what they were doing.

>> That's not helpful.

>> Yeah.

>> So,

>> it's one thing to be against the war and

I think there's some legitimate like

>> or to say has too much influence over. I

get it.

>> No, I get it. No, I'm just saying the

American first people can say we don't

like wars and but they do always take it

right into that. That was that that

Tucker Carlson's a dangerous person in

that regard, I'll tell you. Like

>> they're doing a video. They're like the

number whatever five at the,

>> you know, in our intelligence unit is is

saying what what Candace Owens and

Tucker Carlson are saying. It's the

Jews. We're being manipulated by the

Jews.

>> Yeah. It's problematic. It's

problematic. So what So oil prices, what

what is what actual impact is this going

to have on the economy as a whole? It's

immediate. I mean, unfortunately, and it

always happens. It hurts. It hurts uh

middle-income families and lower income.

Already, you're talking about an

increase for every dollar increase at

the pump. And it looks like we are going

to have about a dollar increase. It's

another $530 a year. And low-income

families spend almost, get this, 20% of

their income on home and auto energy

costs.

>> Yeah. And then the the residual effects

of food from everything. Every single

>> everything you touch is impacted.

everything got to you using some form of

fuel or or is consuming fuel

>> and it's going to probably spike

inflation an additional 100 bips um in

the short run. So

>> speaking speaking of which Jerome Powell

says he'll stay on his Fed chair until

his successor is confirmed by the

Senate. Even if that's after his term

expires he has every right to. It could

be a while. The Senate hasn't even

scheduled a hearing for Trump's nominee

Kevin Walsh. GOP Senator Tom Tillis, who

I'm talking to uh next week, says he

won't vote on confirmation until the DOJ

investigation on Powell is over. They've

they've been handed some um uh court

things, Janine Piro and the rest around

Powell. Uh for his part, and they're

appealing it, I think for his part,

Powell also says he'll stay on as Fed

governor, which I said he would,

remember I said this until the

investigation is well and truly over. Um

this is ex I thought he would do this.

He looks like he ran out of a long

time ago. Um, and well and truly over

means he could stay as long as he is a

while there on that Fed governor thing.

You know, as you noted many times,

enormous influence. So, he's the this is

the opposite of what Trump wanted and

he's stuck with Powell and Tillis, I can

tell you, is not give I mean is not

stopping at all at all. So

>> I think if it had been a different

president who' demonstrated more grace

to him, I don't doubt he would have

stepped down or if he'd said to him,

"Listen, I want you to be my chief

economic advisor. I I you know, I have a

even something more important for you."

But keep in mind, as long as Jerome Pal

is in the room, I've said this. There's

there's how you think there's the

governance structure and then there's

actually how boards and body politic

works. And this is how this is

essentially a board of directors. This

is how they work.

>> There's a bunch of them

>> in every board. There's 12 people, and

there's two people who matter.

>> There's the largest shareholder, which

doesn't doesn't

uh apply here. And then there's someone

who's so smart that everyone

they don't speak a lot. They listen a

lot, but when they speak, everyone has a

tendency to nod their head. and that

tell me the whatever it is the other 11

governors are going to when when Jerome

Pal says you know who whatever the the

chair is the person who

>> well he's going to run it I don't think

I think Tillis isn't G I I know Telus

isn't giving up he said it he's like he

Tillis now suddenly as you said his

balls and he's like no I'm going to do

the right thing for he's very offended

by the Jerome Powell thing I know that

and so I think it's he's a business

person he's a really well he had a you

know he was

even though you know he sounds like he's

like from the country smart guy

>> very smart guy is very stuck on this

Powell not putting uh wash through um

obviously he helped take down Christine

um I think there's there's such a push

back not just from our allies abroad but

here and if you're someone like Tom

Tillis and can stop this you do it like

why not what's what's the negative for

him there's nothing because he's now

because Trump tried pushed him out

essentially of the Senate and now he's

an enormous position of power and and

influence the same thing. And so

Powell's Powell is not going to bring

rates down, by the way, especially with

inflation up. So Trump has gotten the

opposite of everything he wanted. So

>> no, Cal said there was a 99% likelihood

they would not cut rates. But where I

was headed was I would bet 98% of the

decisions in the Fed from the board of

governors, regardless of who's in

charge, regardless of who takes the mic,

uh the new chair, whatever Jerome Pal

said was probably the right move in that

meeting is what they're going to do.

>> Yeah. This is the guy that had a Marylu

Retin like stick the landing of the

economy where he basically tamed

inflation

>> by 600 basis points while not going into

recession. like no one

>> in economics.

>> No,

>> you know,

and

>> I think Worsh is perfectly qualified,

but Trump now has Jerome Powell forever

like especially the dumb attack

>> another six or 12 years or something or

whatever. Basically,

>> he's going to stay there as the as the

head of it. It's just Anyway, it's it's

>> good for him.

>> Good for him.

>> I think he is I think he is lit the

first hero.

>> The first Medal of Freedom recipient.

>> Yeah, he's a hero. One, Democrats love

to show that they're bipartisan. It'll

probably be Vice President Spence will

be first, the first one, and the second

one will be Jerome Pal.

>> Vice President Spence. Who's

>> um Pence? I'm sorry.

>> Oh, Vice President Pence. Yeah. Oh,

that's a good idea. The two of them. Oh,

Pence does not get enough recogn.

>> Yes. Daddy. Dad. Father. I like father

at this point. Father is actually father

and Powell. No, that's that'll work for

me. Uh, okay, Scott, let's go on a quick

break. When we come back, we'll say

goodbye to the metaverse. We hardly knew

you at all.

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Scott, we're back with more news. And

Meta is shutting down its VR metaverse

on June 15th. And legless people are

gone. The VR social network Horizon

Worlds never drew more than a couple

hundred thousand active users a month. I

mean, I think I think it was like a

thousand were using it by the end. Some

users reported that daily active users

actually dropped to under a thousand.

Who are those people? I want to meet

those people. Over 70 billion was spent

on the project over time. Uh you have

talked about this for a long time. I

never like the metaverse.

>> So some breaking news that broke after

the recording. Cara, we just learned

that Meta is not shutting down VR

support for Horizon Worlds. That's

according to an Instagram post from Meta

CTO Andrew Bosworth. He said there was

uh open quote a lot of misinformation

about the company's plans. We announced,

hey, we're moving away from Horizon

Worlds in VR. And the headline is that

Horizon is dead. He said it's not. And

likewise, VR is not dead. We're

continuing to invest tremendously.

Uh, this is weak sauce. We up.

Nana is on life support. And despite the

fact she might have brain waves, we're

pulling the plug soon. This is, in my

view, an attempt to uh backtrack and not

totally freak out the remaining

employees before they find them another

job or lay them off. This is this is

dead. uh in my view and uh you know uh

an attempt to if you will say no there's

still hope when they believe uh and

every indication here is that uh this

thing is maybe in hospice but be clear

it it's it's on the green mile of that

let's move on

>> while the press was fawning over the

idea you were not impressed let's take a

look at what you've said over the years

>> I was the original hater of headsets and

metaverse Web 3.0, the metaverse. It's

supposed to be the next dimension of the

internet.

>> I just love the fact that Mark

Zuckerberg is is showing up with

literally the biggest thud in

history.

>> I am proud to announce that starting

today, our company is now Meta.

>> I think this thing is already a giant

flaming bag of If it was working,

they'd be putting out all sorts of

numbers and press releases about people

signing up. You know, by the end of the

decade, we hope to basically get to

around a billion people in the metaverse

doing hundreds of of dollars of commerce

each.

>> If I were to try and devise a strategy

to weaken the corpus that is Facebook, I

would invent this distraction called the

metaverse and specifically the Oculus to

pour billions of dollars down a single.

>> They pivoted their entire company to the

metaverse. I think I mean if I had tried

to figure out a way to kneecap Meta

which is a net negative for society I

couldn't come up with a strategy as

brilliant as this.

>> Nice call Scott let me just say that.

Second of all I didn't like Meta because

the legless it was weird. Remember when

he introduced it was so weird and

awkward at the time. Um, one of the

things that's astonishing here is that

he could have this much of a loss and

still they're doing so well elsewhere um

that this $70 billion loss doesn't

matter and he's fed while other people

who have losses get slapped back to but

this is such a failure. Please, please

take a lap and conclude this chapter of

Mark Zuckerberg's life for us. care of

the fact that $70 billion in capex got

taken into a street and burned and that

people didn't want to live on a legless

future where they didn't want to be in a

place where 40% of them were within 20

minutes nauseous or that they further

separate from human I'm shocked Cara I'm

shocked this didn't work I I had big

hopes for it because anything Mark

Zuckerberg is clearly right

uh the scariest thing I think the

scariest thing about our economy other

than the income inequality is the fact

that we have now tied the fate of the

S&P and the 10% wealthiest households

who control the economy now and

government. We've tied it to our ability

to evolve a new species of asocial

asexual males and some females.

And the thing is this is this is a

healthy gag reflex for mammals. one, on

a very instinctive level, it's very

uncomfortable, especially for women, but

for everybody, when you're walking on

the sidewalk alone and you hear

footsteps behind you or the side of you,

>> because the things you can eat and the

things that can eat you don't come

straight at you. They have a habit of

coming from behind you or from the side.

>> And so your peripheral vision, and the

reason why billboards on the highway are

still a big business, is you notice

in your peripheral vision. You're very

subconsciously conscious of what's in

your peripheral vision or what isn't.

>> And when it's blocked with a headset,

>> you feel uncomfortable.

>> So, no, they never spoke to an

anthropologist

to say, "All right, what happens when we

invent a technology that from the moment

they turn it on, it's like if you turned

on your PC and it made you feel slightly

nauseous by turning it off."

>> Yes. Remember all those um those all all

of that stuff? Remember they showed it

at CES years ago where you looked at a

TV that was jumping out at you? It was

sickening and no one and never. It was a

big thing one year at CES and then it

wasn't. Let me ask you I'm going to ask

you a more challenging question. All

right. Look, we're going to have

immersive worlds, right, in some way.

And some of it is kind of cool. I

remember 20 years ago, Walt and I went

to Korea and went to either Sony or LG

and we were looking at these headsets in

movies.

Pretty cool. I remember thinking

that. And I wasn't nauseous. I went to

the sphere this week which I loved. I

saw the Dorothy thing and I thought it

was wonderful and we were all in the big

room and I have to say it was a lovely

communal experience because everyone was

laughing and they dropped apples out of

the sky and everything else. There is

something I want you to say what will

work here because there is an immersive

experience with screens that is very

satisfying. What would you if you had to

pick a business in this in the immersive

screens either on your head or in a

situation like the sphere which I think

is a spectacular achievement um in a lot

of ways and it's also beautiful on the

outside cuz it's delightful. Um what do

you what do you imagine that to be?

>> They're I don't think they'll ever be

big businesses care. I think they're

niche experiences. I think that our

species has gotten really used to and

comfortable with as bad as it is this

world. So IMAX is an immersive

experience, but it's never really lived

up to the potential outlined.

>> It's a good business though. It's a good

business.

>> Yeah, it's been quite frankly over the

last 40 years, it's been a shitty

business. IMAX

>> relative to the cost, it's been okay. I

love IMAX every time. That's what I do

when I take my I love seeing in

IMAX.

>> I'm going to see Project Hail Mary

tomorrow night.

>> It's a niche business. The only place I

want an immersive experience is when I'm

having my teeth cleaned by a hot single

mother, Brazilian single mother. And

then she puts on headset that I can

watch, heated rivalry,

>> right?

>> And she, you know, and then I start

crying cuz I start thinking about my mom

and I'm under the influence. I tell her

to when she says,

>> she says 1 to 10 nitrous. I go 12 baby.

>> 12 baby. I'll have it. So, but you don't

you like look, let me can I tell you

what I liked about like you're right.

They're experiential things. One of the

things that was cool about Spheres, I

have seen Wizard of Oz a million times

recently too because my little kids are

now watching it. So, it's not something

I want to see again and again. But one

of the things I thought was quite

beautiful was the ability to see things

in the movie that I never saw like some

of the beautiful costumes, some of the

beautiful, you know, set design and

oddly enough the faces of all the people

that weren't Dorothy like or the or the

main characters. It's like I found

myself looking at these beautiful faces

from another era, right? Like there was

two twins there that I never noticed.

And so one of the things I found it

wasn't just everyone was like, "Oh, the

tornado." And I was like, "That was

cool." But what was beautiful was I

could really see things in a way that I

appre in a way I appreciated. So it

there is something valuable about

immersive in some way like travel I

suppose if or or when you go to a theme

park and you you get on one of those

rides that you like you know you go you

soar past the Golden Gate Bridge. I love

all those things.

>> No look going into another world you

feel like an explorer. It's it's sensory

overload. It's really exciting and then

you want out.

>> Yeah.

>> Escape escape room is correctly named.

>> You wouldn't you wouldn't want to live

in this sphere. Your body can't handle

that much sens sensory stimulation. And

the sphere, by the way, similar to IMAX,

>> an amazing product,

>> it's not doing well economically.

>> Yeah.

>> So, the idea or even the ultimate

sensory experience, the ultimate moment

of awe supposedly according to

astronauts is to go into space and see

the world

>> from another perspective. But guess

what? What's the first thing they want

to do after a week?

>> They want to get home.

>> Yeah. So what what I think I wish

technology was more focused on I hate

this notion that we need to colonize

Mars. No, the real genius here is

something that's going to make this

place a little bit more

habitable.

>> I'm in Tulum staring out at palm trees

and coconuts and the sand, the sugary

sand,

>> and I'm in awe and I'm comfortable

>> and this is the only universe I

want to be in.

>> Yeah. No, I know it's I've never wanted

to go to the space anyway. It it look

it's a disaster. Mark, you you were

wrong and Scott was right. That's all I

have to say. Speaking of scaling back,

OpenAI is scaling back on projects and

focusing on coding and business uh

users. Pressure for the change comes

from competitors like Anthropic, which

you and I have been talking about,

dominating the business AI market.

Employees also felt the company's do

everything strategy led to a lack of

focus. Speaking of which, uh, OpenAI

delayed the launch of the adult mode,

which would allow sexually explicit

conversations due to concerns from

advisers over mental health risks. You

think also of concern, an age prediction

system that has been mclassifying minors

as adults 12% of the time. The feature

which the company still plans to release

eventually would be text only. Um this

is all the influence of Fiji Simo uh who

is the um is is the new top executive

there. Very similar when Errol Schmidt

came to Google. They they were sort of

chaotic and did everything the two

founders Larry and Sergey. Um and then

they brought uh Eric in to really clean

it up. seems sort of basic this you know

this this executive but they do have

done made like a million stupid

announcements and it does remind one of

Google in that regard thoughts

>> you're exactly right it's remember when

Google was doing like trying to

cure death and then I I feel like Eric

brought in managerial competence and how

to scale an organization but Ruth Pat

showed up and said all right mom is home

>> fun time's over the dog's pregnant and

the garage is on fire I'm in charge now

>> y And this is the right move for open

AI. And that is and by the way, and this

will go to my prediction, Anthropic is

now worth more than OpenAI. I don't care

what the last mark is on a preferred

funding, but Anthropic has surged to 19

billion in annual recurring revenue up

from 14 billion just a couple weeks ago.

6 billion in AR was added just in

February. Open AI AR was 20 billion at

the end of 2025.

And here's the key. It's all about the

enterprise because they're the only ones

that are willing to make these huge

investments. And an and get this car

anthropic enterprise market share has

increased to 32% surpassing

OpenAI's 25%. And since 2023,

enterprise AI revenue has exploded from

1.7 billion

>> to 37 billion. Yeah, they've got to be

the open AI is really

>> and then the other the other the other

staggering statistic here that is why

open AI is focusing which is the right

thing to do

>> is anthropic is now capturing

>> three out of four new spending in

enterprise AI.

>> So they're getting 73% of all spending

among companies buying AI tools for the

first time.

>> Yeah.

>> And 10 weeks ago the split with open AI

was 5050. So get this

get this hag Seth

>> it was 6040 in open AI's favor as

recently as early December from so from

December to now it's gone from 6040 to

20 to 2773.

>> Yeah.

>> So they are they are literally losing

the enterprise market.

>> Yeah. So it's starting to feel like open

is Netscape not Google. Right. That's

how it

>> that's an interesting analogy you've

seen. I just I was there when Google was

the first bout of chaos was at the

beginning and there was you know there

was a cover of Fortune magazine chaos at

Google and of course Ruth also shut down

all their all manner they had so many

ridiculous they were doing and they

could do it just like Mark with with the

metaverse because they had all this

money but it was like dumb like it was

at the time when they would have you in

and I was always like this seems dumb

like why are you doing this like why

don't you stick with your business and

they just wanted to be more creative or

more something more interesting in some

fashion. But it's really interesting

because this is at a time when I think

you know anthropics been under pressure

from the government but in the end they

will soar and Pete Hagsath will be a you

know a a sad little footnote a sad

little drunken footnote in our history.

Um anyway we'll see what happens. Um

speaking of someone who won't be a

footnote I would say is Bob Iger stepped

down as Disney CEO again. Iger passed

the baton to his successor Josh Demorro

at Disney's annual shareholder meeting

this week. Tomorrow, a 28-year-old

veteran of the company, was most

recently head of Disney Experiences,

which includes parks, cruises, and

resorts. Iger is set to stay on as an

adviser and board member until the end

of 2026. Not very long. It's unclear

what he'll do after that. Before the

last time he left, he did a bunch of

advising and sailing around on a boat in

the South Seas. Um, uh, I last time he

retired, which I said he wasn't going to

stay retired, I asked him whether he

planned to get into politics. Let's

listen to what he told me in 2022.

Would you ever run for office?

>> Uh, I'm not planning to run for office.

>> That is that a no?

>> That's just what I said. I'm not.

>> Okay. All right. Fine. I think you are.

Um, so last thing. Um, you should I I

don't usually I usually do not tell

another white guy, "Oh, please run for

office. We don't have enough of you."

But I think you would be an excellent

because I think you'd be an excellent

politician because I don't think you

give a Uh anyway, I don't think

he's going to run for office. Actually,

I don't I can't imagine he's going to do

that. Um but what do you think his next

act will will be? Uh I mean, he

certainly had his ups and downs and the

stock has not reflected much of it.

Although I do think he did a lot around

digital. I think he did a lot around

streaming. Um I think he was a very good

CEO for much of his tenure and not so

good in other things. I think probably

the Fox purchase is one people point to

as being problematic, but in general,

pretty good tenure. Um, especially

around streaming. I I think that he made

those moves. Um, what do you think his

next act should be?

>> Hit the golf course and enjoy his life.

And I I would call challenge on his

tenure, Cara, because

>> Okay.

>> The last 10 years have been the most

prosperous in the history of the world

for American companies, and his stock is

below where it was 10 years ago. And at

the end of the day, as a CEO,

>> that's your what you're evaluated.

That's your kind of metrics 1, two, and

three. He quite frankly, he really

up. He's the guy who went to

Vietnam, completed his tour honorably,

came home with medals pinned to his

chest. He could be a viable candidate

for the Democratic nomination right now,

but he's more he looks less like Mark

Cuban and more like Cheryl Samberg.

>> And that is his second tenure. First

off, he was heckling from the cheap

seats. He left and never really left the

room, but convinced the board, as far as

I can tell, to fire the new guy and put

me back in like some returning hero. And

he has had huge wins in his face. But

Disney has become

Disney has gone from being probably the

most iconic company in the creative

community. To a certain extent, it

represents what's happened to the

creative community. And that is distinct

of how incredible it is and their great

IP and their great creativity. It's been

bad for shareholders and it's probably

been a difficult place to work the last

10 years. And he did he did make a lot

of the right moves. He launched a

streaming network. He invested in the

parks. But at the end of the day, his

last 10 years, there was a there was

never a clear succession path. He

started to feel a little bit like I

forget the name of that guy at City CR

that anytime someone got near him, got

shot in the head. So he leaves. He's

very likable. He's very smooth. Had he

stayed away and then just let someone

else run with it, I think he'd probably

be a cabinet member, maybe even by, you

know, in the next administration at a

minimum. Now he's Now he's the guy that

quite frankly took Disney. I he he

didn't take the stock anywhere. I get

that. I I understand. I think doing the

streaming stuff was critical to its

future and he definitely pushed that

through. Like I I was there watching. I

mean, he made a number of dumb digital

moves over the years. They kept changing

Disney Bu a Vista when he I mean, I was

I wrote stories on every one of them and

but I do think directionally very few

people leaned into digital and streaming

the way he did, right? And I think

>> Oh, I don't know. I would argue Netflix

leaned in.

>> Well, Netflix, of course. No, no. Yes.

No, they should have bought Netflix when

they had the chance and they everybody

had the chance at one point, but yeah,

you're right. Netflix was in the in the

right position. But you are dragging

around a legacy organization makes makes

it very hard

>> a legacy organization that had the

world's best IP. I mean

>> Netflix so okay so Disney in the last 10

years has market returns of of zero and

Netflix is up four I'm sorry it's up

600%. Yeah. Yep.

>> Granted, the other studios have not

fared any better,

>> right?

>> But with that IP, with the Parks or Cash

Flow,

>> Yeah. Look, Bob, what's the lesson here?

The lesson is the following, and I think

about this a lot. Mhm.

>> It is very hard to pull off the ultimate

gangster move for your brand when you're

in a position of power and you're doing

well, and that is to leave the party too

early.

Um, and that is people have a tendency

when they're doing well and they're so

iconic as Bob Iger is and was to think

to just stay too long.

>> Yeah.

>> You want to leave the stage while people

are clapping. You want to leave a party

10 minutes too early. You want to leave

the Vanity Fair Oscar party at midnight,

not at 4:00 a.m. when you're wandering

around alone. And it's clear Emily

Rodikowski is not going to speak to you.

>> Was she there?

>> By the way, at one point I was sitting

at the bar.

>> We didn't talk about this cuz you were

blabbing away to all your other

>> I was sitting at the bar, no joke, in

between John Ham, who's quite handsome,

and Jacob Allerty, who is even more

handsome and much taller.

>> Yeah. Emily started walking towards the

bar and all I could think of is there's

no way she's coming to me right

now. Yeah. No way. I'm like

>> I'm like the price is right.

>> This is the real Emily. You saw her.

>> Oh yeah. Trust me. I saw her.

>> Okay.

>> Uh yeah. By the way, she looks she looks

pretty good. She looks pretty.

>> So wait, what happened? Wait, the I I

only want the Ratikowski part. Go ahead.

>> Nothing. She did. She just walked up and

had a drink. And at some point I'm like,

I I want to be the professor, not the

stalker.

>> So, uh, but my favorite moment is

>> You didn't say hello.

>> I'm too intimidated.

>> Oh my god.

>> I said hi to I said hi to Morin Dow and

Caitlyn Collins. Those are my friends.

>> I saw that.

>> Those are That's who I hang out with.

And the Smartless guys. Those guys are

fun. I like those guys.

>> Those are fun.

>> And they they're like they feel sorry.

The only people that come up to me are

like think of me as an intellect. They

think, "Oh, it's so cute. They have a

professor here. Let's go be nice to him.

That's our charity for the night. And

everybody comes up to me and says, I

have sons and I very much appreciate

your work. And then they say, oh, can I

meet, you know, can can can I meet Jud

Appatile now? I mean, I'm convinced half

the people half the people talking to me

>> Yeah.

>> were checking themselves out in the

reflection of my glasses.

>> Oh no.

>> I can't believe you didn't speak to

Emily Rat.

>> By the way, that party.

>> Yeah.

>> Vanity Fair.

>> Yeah.

>> Those people are geniuses. I'm going to

subscribe twice. Okay. The the the

environment they pulled together that

night.

>> Yeah. It's nice. It's a nice part.

>> I would I think it's the most

aspirational environment I've ever been

in in my life. I just couldn't get over

the wardrobe, the environment, the food,

the vibe.

>> You've always done a good job.

>> I just saw it uh the new editor in

Unbelievable.

>> Mark. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Mark just is an amazing handsome

guy, too.

>> Yeah. I have to say they've always had a

good party. They they've been good at

that under under all their different

editors. I think it's been

>> And I got to hang out with Larry David.

It's like angry meet depressed.

Depressed meet angry.

>> Oh my god, you look alike. What

happened? Was there like a moment?

>> Larry and I are friends now.

>> Oh, you're friends.

>> We totally got along. Okay. All right.

>> Yeah, we hit it off. And by the way, the

Larry David Show is really the David

Larry David Show. He's like, that's

exactly who he is.

>> He's like, what's the point of an Oscar?

He just starts into a and you're

like, okay, here we are.

>> He has a new show that looks hysterical

that he did with the Obamas about

history.

>> My very lovely wife, too. Anyways, I

very much

>> I don't know. Was Bob Iger there?

Because it was

>> I did not see Bob. I did not sense a

Kashmir sweater or tuxedo anywhere.

>> Uh but the thing is you walk in and they

like do you want to do a red carpet in

Morningington? It's like I'm not doing a

red carpet. I'm like I am so doing the

red carpet and they have

>> Yeah. So you had

>> hundreds of photographers and there's

three X's and I guess you're supposed to

go to one X.

>> Yeah.

>> And take pictures.

>> Yeah.

>> I didn't know that. So, I go to the

first X and they're like, "Hello,

professor and they're all nice." And I'm

like, "Now I'm going to go to the second

X and sit here and pose.

>> Get the out of here."

>> And then I go to the third X and by the

time I got to the third X, I realized

everyone's like, "What the is this

guy doing?"

>> And one of the one of the photographers

just out of a moment of like feeling

sorry for me, kind of waved me along.

He's like, "You're supposed to go to

just one X."

>> And I turned red. I'm a bad celebrity.

>> Oh my god. Can I ask you one question?

Did you see Jeff Bezos? He was there

looking.

>> I saw him with Lauren. I thought they

looked great. I don't

>> No, I didn't. I thought they

>> I don't mind Jeff's midlife crisis. I'm

here for it.

>> I know. But did you say hello?

>> I said hello to all three of them. I

mean, I said Yeah. No. No. I said hello.

>> Um I did not. I'm tell I'm intimidated.

Unless people come up to me, I'm

intimidated. I don't like

>> gone and said Carara says hello. That

that in that one you could have done

that.

>> That's like hi. My rich father knows

you. I just don't want to do that. I

don't know.

>> He doesn't like me. I would be bad. He

would

>> I literally freaked out at about

midnight. And I'm like, this is the best

party of my life. I need to go home and

take a Xanax and just recover from all

the I feel like a kid who candy store

for 8 hours.

>> Did you? I can't believe my only note is

I can't believe you didn't say hello to

Emily Ratowski. You're a loser. You're a

loser. Anyway, Bob Iger's next act very

quickly.

>> He'll go on a couple boards and he'll

enjoy his life and he deserves to do all

of this. Hang out with his lovely wife

and speak at USC's film school.

>> He's got to do something else. I think

it's something else. Let me tell you,

when he was

>> Bob is 74, 73.

>> He is in really good shape. When he

looks really good, when he was in the

last one, he texted me far too much. And

I was like, I think you need to do

something else cuz I think he's got

another thing in him. I don't know what

it is.

>> I know. He's 75. Yeah.

>> Yeah. He could be in the cabinet. He

could be in a

>> Well, what is that? 77

head. Yeah.

>> Could be the head. Could he be the

commerce secretary? I don't know.

>> I don't know. He probably doesn't want

to. What do you need that for

anyway? If he wants to help people,

>> ambassador to France and throw amazing

parties at like the the US residents.

>> That's perfect. Ambassador to France.

Let's do it. Bob, we're going to send

you to France. Anyway, let's go on a

quick break. When we come back, we'll

talk about Khi facing criminal charges.

Your favorite groups of people there,

Scott.

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Scott, we're back with more news. Kelshi

is facing criminal charges in Arizona

where prosecutors say the prediction

market platform illegally let people bet

without a gambling license. Keli says

the charges are meritless and said they

should be regulated federally rather

than by individual states. The case is

the first criminal prosecution against a

prediction market company. It's more to

come. I actually when I was at South by

South met met with the California

Attorney General who today um did a

lawsuit uh one of the lawsuits against

the Nextar um the Nextar whatever that

ridiculous merger was. Um in any case

this is the states have been regulating

gambling for year like forever for

decades. So it's not meritless. Um so

what what do you think does this because

what was interesting another story

popped up which I found fascinating.

Times of Israel reporter received death

threats from gamblers on poly market

after reporting an Iranian missile

strike that affected a high stakes

prediction market bet. Some betters

tried to pressure him to change the

story so the market would resolve in

their favor. And let me just say it feel

this is a topic people are really

interested in. I'll read an email from

one of our listeners. I'm a journalist

and a fan of the show. I don't

understand why I'm hearing Kelie

percentages cited during the show as

it's anything. It's people guessing. I

think it's more harmful than helpful.

That's you doing it, Scott. I don't do

that. I agree with you. Um what do you

think about these markets shifting from

predicting events to actively

influencing them in certain given the

gaming part easily gamed uh unregulated

bad actors it is gambling um and

gambling is very well regulated. So what

do you think about that?

>> I think there's some truth to all of

that. I I'm this is one of those things

I'm hugely conflicted by because I am

absolutely fascinated with the data

where I would push back on the listener

is oh no this data is incredibly

insightful

um the wisdom this is the wisdom of

crowds this is this does illuminate

whenever I'm looking at political races

whenever I'm looking at interest rate

movements I go to I go to

>> a trailing indicator you don't think

it's a trailing indicator

>> it's pretty much up to date and the

thing about money and the thing about

looking at Typically the people who did

this stuff were were academics,

economists or an investment banking

analyst. All of them are conflicted. All

of them want to catastrophize because it

makes us look smarter. All of us have

third party influences. Nothing is more

amoral and pure than money. It just when

someone bets on something, it really

shows you what they really think is

going to happen. And if you look at it's

these comp these speculative markets,

speculation markets or prediction

markets have essentially put pollsters

into a certain extent investment banking

analysts out of work because guess what?

They're much

>> kind of I I would push back on that. I

just met with a bunch of pollsters on

this topic, but go ahead.

>> In my opinion, they're done. They if you

look at if you look at if you look at

the prediction markets record versus

pollsters in the last election, the

prediction markets kicked their ass.

Absolutely. I love the data. I am

swimming in the data. It's one of the

first things I do before I get on a show

is I look at I look at Cali data. Cal

I'm totally conflicted because at the

same time

>> Mhm.

>> there's a really good argument that this

is just gambling. Now what

>> what's happening is they're being

charged with four counts of election

wagering.

>> Um is the the debate is over the

fundamental definition of gambling

versus event contracts. and Arizona

charges claim that putting money on a

contingent future event or occurrence is

illegal. But at the same time, Car, if

that's true, then traditional options

would be illegal. And that here's the

problem or the issue.

Gambling and tapping into a prefrontal

cortex, an immature prefrontal cortex

that is dopah hungry and susceptible,

uh, in some ways there's just no getting

around it. feels predatory

and unhealthy. So what do you do? Do you

infantilize? I think Khi is trying to be

the the clean the cleanest best lit

place of this. They're not doing

contracts on things like war

>> whereas Poly Market is off offshore and

Kelsey is trying to get licensed by the

same people who license the options

exchange.

>> But I I want to hear what you think. I

have no more clarity around.

>> I think the states have been regulating

gambling forever. So I think that's

nonsense that they should if this if

gambling is going on they need to it's

it reminds me

>> they're approving it. They're approving

it everywhere

>> proving it in different places.

>> States have been approving gambling all

over the place.

>> They are but so they need to be

regulated in the same way. Like it's

it's my thing with everything. It's like

if open is giving legal, medical or

psychological advice, they need to be

subject to the same rules people are

right the same everybody. Like I I was

in Vegas for a second. I have to tell

you you're absolutely right. It's dead.

Vegas is dead. Like I

>> You need to be in Vegas. Vegas is in

your pocket.

>> That's right. I was like I literally

like Oh my god, Scott was right. It was

so freaky to be in Vegas without people.

It felt like I was in like Plurabus,

right? It was so weird. And you could

feel the the innovation of a place that

is just with these big rooms and the

casinos empty. It's weird. And so it's

it's definitely hurting businesses,

right? these kind of things, whether

it's sports betting online or this kind

of thing, there's they need to be

regulated the same way everybody else

is. And and states have every right to

do this. This is this is not and maybe

there should be federal gambling laws,

but there haven't been really.

>> I think that would be good. I think they

would want that. I think they want some

regulation.

>> Yes.

>> But let me ask you let me ask you a more

old tech company said, "Oh, we please

bring us regulation."

>> I think I actually think they're I think

they're I think they would actually

please bring us regulation.

Let me ask you this. You have sons.

>> I think about this a lot. Let's be

clear, much of this is gambling.

>> Yeah.

>> Uh and and it and but at the same time,

do you infantilize children? And I I I

know firsthand as someone who

appreciates data. There is real value in

this data.

>> There is. It can also be easily gained.

So easily

in it. There's a lot of potential for

insider trading. But the more liquid

markets, people are more greedy. Anyway,

huge potential for insider trading. I

get it. But let me ask you this.

>> Mhm.

>> Do you think it should be they should be

put out of business, regulated, or let

to just run free?

>> Regulated.

>> And what does that mean?

>> I'm not sure. I'm not I'm not an expert

on this, but I feel like how are g I

want to know how gambling things are

regulated and how

>> age getting to 21 would be one good

start, right?

>> Possibly. Yes. 21. It's interesting.

Yes. Yes. Yes. actually on certain

parts, other parts it's fine. But yes,

agegating would be one thing and it's

not infantilizing. We do it all the time

with with with real businesses. And so

what

>> foreign, alcohol, military,

>> what upsets me is we're different. All

it's the same it's the same song and

dance from all internet companies. We're

different. We don't deserve the same.

And they get unfair advantage here. Um

as to

>> who gets unfair advantage.

>> These these these markets get unfair

advantage. It made me very

uncomfortable, for example, when uh CNN

and others sign deals with them because

I'm like because I don't think they know

how to use them properly. That's the

other thing. It can be so

>> it's not reporting like it's not it's

some it's an indicator. It's a data

point, but it's not I guess I don't like

them doing polls either. So, I guess I I

just I find it very weak and it can be

very influential in a way. And so I just

feel like it it it obviously needs to

have some regulatory thing with my sons.

They don't actually they're not they're

not big bettors. I don't I'm not I don't

know why. I mean I I get that why like I

was in Vegas for two days and I didn't

bet once. Like I was like I walked right

through the casinos. But that's me. Um

but I just feel like it's the death

threat. This reporter thing was a really

interesting thing. Like this this has

implications that have been around since

the dawn of time. The these and and they

think they're different. And so how I

think we need to have more transparency

into how they're doing things. I think

they should have you know they shouldn't

bet on deaths like I mean they they

shouldn't be I don't know if we should

make them not do it or if you say okay

you're going to do that.

>> Yeah. But to be fair I do think Cali has

said we're not going to we're not going

to create markets and things like war

that might involve an incentive that

might involve death or

>> geopolitical. That's the kind of stuff

but there's going to be someone who's

going to. So maybe we need some laws,

right? Anyway, we we have to move on.

It's a really interesting it's a

developing situation, but I think it's

in every state's rights to do this. So

Ky should stop being so like high-handed

with them. Of course, they're going to

come in. It's affecting things. So um

this is exactly why the government

should come in in some fashion. At least

think about it, have hearings, talk

about it, and and let's discuss the

things. Um just before we finish, this

is the last thing. Uber plans to invest

$1.2 $2 billion in Rivian as part of a

deal to deploy 50,000 robo taxis. I

recently spoke with uh Rivian founder

and CEO RJ Scaring on on with Care

Swisser. I also saw him for an extended

amount of time at South by Southwest.

Let's listen to a clip where he talked

about self-driving.

>> If you're a customer and you have a

choice of I can buy a car for 35 $40,000

and it can, you know, drop me at the

airport, it can go to the grocery store

to pick up, you know, stuff for me. It

can drop a friend at a house. it can do

all those things or a car that doesn't

do that. It's it's going to be very

binary where I think there'll be very

few people that will self- select to say

I don't want those features. Even folks

who are not comfortable with the idea of

self-driving once you experience it one

or two times.

>> It does. I try to say that to everybody.

>> It's so sticky because you get your time

back. Suddenly you can be reading a book

on your phone. It's it's just so sticky.

>> I my one way of convincing one person

I'm like who likes to party. I'm like,

you can you can text and drink.

>> I don't know what to say. There's my

that's my sale for you. I think that was

you I was talking about. Um it was

really it was super interesting. I think

it's a real blow again to Tesla. Um and

I I I drove the Rivian 2 at um South by

Southwest. I also they have a really

nifty bike called Also, which I liked a

lot. Um I really like the Rivian. I I

think he's interesting. I think he's a

great spokesperson for this stuff. Um,

and they're wonderful. It's a wonderful

I may buy one. I may buy an R2 um

because I was super impressed with it.

Um, in any case, it's a really

interesting um move by Uber who needs to

get into this business and uh and uh and

it's a good thing for Rivian who, you

know, it's a tough struggle to get these

cars to get a car company going. Um,

your thoughts on Rivian?

>> I I think it's a win-win. I I think it's

uh Rivian is subscale. Automobile

platforms cost so many billions to

produce. I think Rivian has done as good

a job as anyone. I'm moving when I move

back to the US. I'm going to if I buy a

car and I've really enjoyed not having a

car for four years, I'm probably going

to buy a Rivian.

>> The two is nice. It's smaller.

>> I was one of those people that put 5,000

bucks down on it like five, six years

ago and never took delivery of it. By

the way, I should probably look into

that.

>> Um, new couch market. What's the

likelihood that Scott gets gets his

money back?

>> I I think this is they're there. Look,

Tesla's missed a real opportunity here

again and again and again, but I don't

think he cares about the cars anymore,

does he? I mean, he he was introducing a

a cyber cab that doesn't exist and isn't

being used anywhere. I mean, think

between Whimo and Rivian, I think

they've sort of ran around.

>> But let me It's also very one,

>> they need more scale. So, this is a

great win for Rivian. to I think one of

the biggest brand enhancements is to be

known like there are few brands that

have fallen further faster in the last

20 years and made shittier cars than

Jaguar. This is one of the great the one

of the great British brands in history.

The design and the and the cars the last

20 years have just been remarkably

uninspiring.

Now the best brand move in my opinion of

Jaguar is they have been um the car of

choice that I've seen for

>> Whimos. Yes, they are.

>> So immediately it's like, "Oh, Jaguar is

the kind of the Pepsi generation new

cool car." I didn't even know what the I

I had to look. I I didn't even recognize

the car. That's a Jaguar.

>> So it's Brand enhancing for Rubian. It

gives them all sorts of scale.

>> And also what people have

underappreciated is that the biggest

winner, the obvious biggest winner in

autonomous, regardless of all the

press releases, people realize

it's not Tesla. It's likely Whimo. They

have the capital. They're miles ahead of

everyone. They have exponentially more

miles under their under their under

their belt in terms of testing this. But

there's an outside shot that the biggest

winner here

>> Mhm.

>> is going to be Uber

>> because when you control

>> sort of like the apple. See, they're

sort of like the apple.

>> I love we always used in consulting we

always used to the term use the term

custody of the consumer. My first client

was Levi Strauss company and they were

always complaining about J C Penney and

Sears. I'm like, "Yeah, but they have

custody of the consumer. You need to

open your own stores. You need to go

vertical to control the relationship

with the consumer."

>> In the US, Uber has 75% market share.

They're basically a monopoly.

>> Yeah. Der is a very effective.

>> And so what they can do is they can say

they can push up an icon saying, "Why do

you need to download the Whimo or the

Tesla app? Just click here for

driverless." Yeah, they could also do

deals with Whimo too by

>> and they can play them off against each

other. They can find the company that

wants to work with them the most and get

market share the same way Apple

>> You could also use Uber to summon Whimo

if you I mean think why not like why not

>> my point. Yeah. And then take a take a

large margin. So what did Apple do?

Because they controlled custody of the

billion wealthiest people in the world

through UI and people don't want to

learn a new app. They extract $20

billion a year from Alphabet to be to

make to make Google the default search

engine.

>> Uber's in a position to extract

extraordinary deals around autonomous

>> and make it and say to people, "Oh yeah,

you want autonomous? No problem. Here's

the Uber app

>> you love." And so I I look Whimo,

>> it's going to be interesting.

Autonomous. I think I think one of the

places that AI actually comes to

fruition and exceeds our expectations is

around autonomous.

>> I agree. The question is, what's

interesting is

>> two of the biggest winners hands down

>> are going to be Uber and Whimo. And I

wouldn't be surprised if Uber is in fact

the biggest winner because they have

custody of the consumer.

>> Yeah. Ultimately, I've been a big, as

you know, a big proponent of of

self-driving in a safe mode. I I will

tell you, I would never get in a Tesla

given I had a long talk with with R.J.

about, you know, I think he's he's more

on you don't need this many points of

safety, but he put them on there anyway,

right? And so compared to Elon who's

like, I just have one camera with the

guy in the back. Like I feel so unsafe

in Teslas in that regard. Um, and I

think the way Whimo's done it is

correct, but you're right. Uber's in in

a very they could have been it could

have been easily sidelined by all these

companies but they have they I always

used to say they have the reservation

system and that and you're right it's

the chain of custody and and you do

trust Uber what a brand I mean I know

Travis Kalan is trying to come back in

this sector but I got to say DAR took

that company and really made it into one

like you know you know what is

comparatively

>> really been eye opening for me and it

goes to something you said that's always

really resonated with me and that is

>> the thing about tech executives They're

traditionally white males who went to

elite schools, raised in wealthy

families. And when you never been a

victim, it's difficult to understand

victimization. That's always struck me

that like until I walk in those shoes,

you don't. And you know what women say

to me that I it makes so much sense. I

just never realized it. I get into an

Uber, the driver doesn't usually doesn't

talk to me. I don't want to talk to him.

And I know that sounds terrible. I just

don't I don't want to talk. I want to be

on my phone. Every woman I've talked to

says when they get in an Uber, the Uber

driver tries to chat her up.

>> And it's not me, but Yes. Yes.

>> Well, it's uncomfortable, especially if

you talk to young women.

>> Mhm.

>> And they don't. And you know who's

really used loves Whimo is women.

>> Women. They do. Or else you can also now

on Uber, by the way, uh request a woman.

>> Um there's a they they've done a great

job. Let me tell you, Dar goes for I

don't agree with on everything. I think

sometimes he can be a little too

compromisy with terrible people. I think

he knows it. He's a great He's a great

CEO. He's done a great job here.

>> All right. Uh, one more quick break.

We'll be back for predictions.

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Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction.

Can I just start very quickly? Of

course. I predict this mega micro penis

war is going to get worse. And I am here

for it. Do you know about this? Right.

Megan Kelly said Mark Levin had a microp

penis and then President Trump defended

his micropenis and then Marjorie Taylor

Green came in with a micropenis and

Megan Kelly's doubling down on it. It's

completely crude and awful and repulsive

and I think it's going to get a lot

worse and I'm very pleased. Thank you.

>> Yeah, that's my prediction.

>> No, I I I don't I don't I think it's

inappropriate to talk about man's

genitalia. Um, by the way, I was at a

stall last night and a guy looked over

and he said, "Circumcised?" And I said,

"Nope, that's just the wear and tear."

>> Oh my god, you've told that joke before.

I'm going to start clocking your penis.

By the way,

>> I'm not going to say Adam Grant, but

Adam Grant said, "You got to cut back on

the penis strokes, the party you missed,

cuz you wrote the