two um small gray beings came into my room and um  woke me up and said, "Come outside." And I put on  

um these steel toe boots I had by the bed and went  outside with them and there was a UFO hovering at  

a very low altitude over the backyard. I woke up  and I knew that I had had an implant in my toe.  

The aliens had been there in the middle of the  night and I had one more on the side of my head,  

too. Wow. We found the object and we took it  out. that looked like nothing that I had ever  

removed before. If you can just feel my hair  right there. You see that? There's Oh, yeah.  

There's something in his ear. The magnet sticks  to my ear. Wa wa. Some of my favorite interviews  

have been these guys. They have implants. You  know, they're close encounters of the third kind,  

type two abductions. I go in for the post  operation meeting with the doctor and he said,  

"I found something in your right nostril that was  so hard I almost couldn't break through it." How  

many people do you think are walking around with  alien implants inside of them? 350,000 people.  

These people are way too powerful to fight and  they're experts at mind control. They can make  

you do anything they want you to do willingly. The  beings that implanted you is that good or bad or m

Ignition sequence start. How is this  possible? Nothing too unusual about  

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with factor. Steve Coburn, I am so grateful that  you're here. This has been a long time coming.  

I was just saying offset I've been trying to get  in touch with you for the last two or three years  

maybe. I've followed your work. Uh it seems like  in UFO world. Uh we seem stuck on the existence  

or non-existence of lights in the sky, right? And  there's a whole uh kind of history of research,  

deep research from very credentialed people  uh discussing kind of you know deeper threads  

if you will around close encounters of the third  kind abductions uh implants often being found in  

these people's bodies. There's a legendary UFO  researcher named Dr. Roger Lear, who everybody  

likes to pay homage to, and I view you as kind  of his living heir in many ways. Yeah, I guess  

that's about right these days. I mean, nobody else  has uh taken up the uh the research and he taught  

me everything he knows he knew. So, um I um would  very much like to um uh continue the research when  

fun when funding becomes available. It's crazy  that funding should be uh completely available.  

This is like the most interesting stuff, you  know. So, um uh let's just establish for the  

audience who who is Dr. Roger Lear. He's known as  this, you know, sort of alien implant doctor. Who  

what's his what was his background? How did he  get into this? Well, he was a podiatrist and uh  

he was always interested in UFOs. He was um the  most knowledgeable euphologist I've ever met.  

And um he um was at a UFO conference once and um  uh Daryl Sims tried to get him interested in alien  

implants. He thought the subject was ridiculous  at first. Um then he finally said his uh one of  

his friends convinced him to take another look  at it. So he said um uh to uh Darl um well you  

know uh get some of these people down here to my  office and we'll get them x-rayed and uh take the  

object out and see what it is. And so that's how  the research started. And he ended up taking out  

17 objects from 17 different people over about  a a 20-year period. We found the object uh the  

first one and we took it out. Uh it looked like  nothing that I had ever removed before in a way  

of a foreign body. And believe me, I had removed  all sorts of things from even a hair to paper to  

uh metals of various kind and so on. Never saw  anything like this. It was a a T-shaped affair  

that was wrapped in a very tight biological tissue  which was this really strange color and texture.  

And then we took a scalpel and we wanted to see  what was inside. That's the idea of the whole  

thing. And we were amazed to find that we couldn't  cut through this biological tissue. It came back  

uh with absolutely no inflammatory response. Now,  that really makes you want to scratch your head  

because how do you get something into the human  body and not have the body react to it? Well,  

that just doesn't happen. Uh maybe there's some  weirded out explanation that I didn't understand  

from one site. Uh maybe uh two sites, but  three sites uh from two different people  

uh that's just a little too much to handle. And  where was he based? Uh I found out that Dr. Leer  

was working in Thousand Oaks when I was working  in Camo, California, only a few miles away. And  

um I um uh had some a weird experience uh where  uh I saw these giant raccoons in my backyard and  

uh when I was at the house alone one night and  um I fed the animals and observed them for some  

time and there were um about between 75 and 100  lbs I'd estimate. I didn't even know raccoons  

got that big. And evidently there were scout  animals for the aliens because I went to bed  

and woke up about 8:00 the next morning and um  had a sting a bad stinging pain in my toe and  

uh I had reason to believe it was some kind of an  implant and so I went to see Dr. earlier and um I  

don't think he believed me at first, but he gave  me a prescription to get the uh toe x-rayed. And  

um I knew we were going to see something on  the x-ray, but when I did, that changed my life  

forever. It looked like a bent piece of wire on  the x-ray. And um um I didn't remember um getting  

any shrapnel in there or anything like that. So it  was um quite an experience. Then um he got funding  

from Haime Masan to uh to remove it a few months  later and um he didn't have anybody to analyze it.  

So um where I was working at the time I had I had  access to a lot of analyt analytical equipment. So  

um I analyzed it for him and it turned out to  be a sophisticated nanotechnological device.  

Uh have you read my paper on that implant? I have  not. Let's let's hear about it. Um well, it um it  

turned out to have very um skewed isotopic ratios  and several elements that were in the metallic  

core and um to the extent that it looked like it  probably came from another part of the galaxy,  

not just another planet. And um but how how can  you know that from the isotope ratios? Well,  

because um the isotope ratios are characteristic  um of um elements from different places and  

um if um they're off by more than a percent or  so um that means it's from it's not from from  

Earth. Um these were off by up to like 30%. What  were the elements and what were the isotopes? Um  

uh the first one I think it was boron uh boron  and copper and um there were there were um uh  

similar results from other implants I analyzed and  um anyway the the structure of the device was um a  

gray hard to cut membrane um and below that a um  a layer of uh material that was similar to bone  

like a biological hard part like bone or mother of  pearl. Then below that a um metallic core with um  

uh made of meteoric iron with carbon nanot  tubes inside the metal and um nerve cells  

connected to the device. Um the pain in my toe  got worse over a period of days and um um led to  

um a lot of uh electric shock type pain whenever  I put any weight on the toe. Um and um I think  

that was the nerve cells growing in the device. Um  these devices also produce no um uh physiological  

reaction in the body and that's unheard of.  Foreign objects always produce a physiological  

response. So there's no immune response. No  immune response, right? Really interesting. And  

could these elements and isotopes theoretically  have been uh produced in some sort of centrifuge?  

You could, but uh in order to produce those exact  ratios, it would probably cost millions of dollars  

and be very difficult to do. So the question is  why? And why would anybody do that? Why would  

anybody do that? Um do you remember undergoing  some sort of alien abduction experience prior to  

that being I didn't remember it consciously, but  I underwent regressive hypnosis and remembered  

uh aliens putting in the device. Yeah. What was  that experience like? Um well they um two um uh  

gray small gray beings uh came into my room and um  woke me up and said come outside. And I put on um  

uh these steeltoe boots I had by the bed and went  outside with them and there was a UFO hovering at  

a very low altitude over the backyard over this  avocado tree I had at the Fillmore house. And  

um they um uh indicated that I should stand below  the center of the center of the craft and um took  

me up with a tractor beam. And Star Trek got it  right, by the way. It's like a blue or greenish  

uh uh beam that lifts things, a gravity beam.  And um the center of the craft, it was about  

50 ft in diameter. Um similar to Lazar's sport  model, uh if you're familiar with that. Oh yeah.  

And um uh the center of the device or craft was  an airlock um that had uh human and alien space  

suits available and there were four doors leading  to the to the four quadrants of the craft. Then  

there was a habitation ring around the outside  and u a pilot station with uh two pilots and  

um uh appear to be thought controlled. They had  their hands in a panel and on top of a panel and  

uh screens where they where they were observing  different things. And um they took me around to  

um the station at 90° to the pilot station. And  there was a a a couch that slid out of the wall.  

And they indicated this guy indicated me for me  to lie down. And um uh it was a a taller gray. And  

um he took out a device that looked like um a  black plastic handle with um a piece of 1/4 in  

uh stainless steel tubing on it and touched it to  my toe and um pushed a button and that must have  

put the implant in and um um there were uh fiber  optics going down the uh the center of this piece  

of tubing and I think that's what activates the  device UV light and I think that's what accounts  

for Um these red marks you see on experiencers  too. I think they're mini sunburns from UV light.  

Interesting. And so how long were you up there  for? Um about an hour. Um they waited for a long  

time for orders I think before actually putting  in the device cuz I think because they knew it'  

start an investigation. They weren't sure they  wanted that cuz a bunch of weird stuff had been  

happening previously. And um um where were you  living at the time? Uh Filillmore, California.  

Okay. Filmore. And was this during that night or  Yeah, it was a night about 3:00 in the morning.  

They usually come about 2 or 3 in the morning. Um  and um so finally after about being up for about  

45 minutes, I go like guys, you know, I'm tired.  If you if you're not going to do anything, then  

uh let me go back to bed. And so they they put the  device in at that point and that didn't take very  

long once they decided to make up their minds. Are  you communicating telepathically with them? Yes,  

it's telepathically. Yeah. Okay. Do you see any  symbols around the craft? Yeah, there were some  

some symbols look like hieroglyphics on labeling  the instruments on the pilot station and uh on  

some of the walls. Um they had a believe they had  a vector symbol, a blue vector symbol on the wall,  

a pretty big uh symbol and it had two dots circles  below it. And um their uniforms are usually cobalt  

blue and have um either a um a snake with a uh  a snake over a triangle or um three uh orange  

circles arranged in an equilateral triangle. And  um I'm led to believe that um the three um orange  

circles arranged in an equilateral triangle is the  symbol of the gray alliance. The the uh grays are  

not one species. There are like several I believe  seven different species of similar aliens that  

um are bound by treaty and come within come  to us from planets within 100 light years of  

here. Where how are you getting that? Uh I believe  they told me. Oh, they told you that. And uh what  

else did they tell you? Uh a lot of stuff about  physics and um propulsion. Most of which I can't  

remember consciously. Do you remember anything  about the physics and propulsion? Uh yeah. Yeah.  

Um they use a combination of or several methods  to create anti-gravity and they they definitely  

have anti-gravity drives and um they use uh like  three different methods to create um anti-gravity.  

Do you remember the methods? Yeah, one of one is  is a home polar generator. Um if you take a disc,  

the basic homopolar generator is a disc uh uh  metallic disc rotating uh in a perpendicular  

magnetic field and it creates a voltage between  the the center and the outside of the disc. And um  

the aliens use a version of that u to create most  of their lift where um they uh circulate molten  

metal around the outside of the craft that's  magnetic uh from uh analyzing samples of the  

material that were dropped. I think it's usually  a a mixture of um iron and silicon. the silicon's  

probably in there to lower the melting point. And  um there's a strong magnetic field um between the  

top and bottom of the craft. That's why uh the  um uh that's why equipment like uh car electrical  

systems goes out when a UFO is near because of the  very strong magnetic field. And um they also um  

use a method um called the bofield brown effect  to generate lift where um you rapidly charge  

a capacitor um and and there's a thrust in the  direction of the positive pole and the on a lot  

of these things the entire craft is a capacitor  between the top and bottom um the top and bottom  

uh of the craft are like plates of a capacitor. So  they told you they use the biffield brown effect  

these aliens. Yeah, that's really interesting.  And um uh they according to Bob Lazar,  

they didn't I don't remember him telling me this,  but according to Bob Lazar, they also use element  

115 sometimes to amplify the the gravitational  effect. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. I'm I'm  

obsessed with Towns and Brown. So I that gets me  excited. The fact that there's some, you know,  

corroboration from an experiencer that, you know,  maybe that that is how the craft actually works.  

Many institutions and people have tried to either  downplay or falsify Brown's experiments. For  

example, in 1990, the Air Force tested a Biffield  Brown experiment in a vacuum, but they only used  

19 kovts instead of the mega voltage Brown was  using. But in 1956, Jacqu Cornion, a French Air  

Force officer and technical representative for one  of France's largest aircraft companies, sued west,  

facilitated Brown's experiments in a vacuum in  the Montgier facility in Paris. The test very very  

tricky. It was sensitive to so so many things in  finally it worked. So that was a positive result.  

Did they say anything else? So, they're giving you  all this insight into the into the physics. Uh,  

they talked about time travel quite a bit. Um,  and the physics of that. What did they say? They  

said that um that they have time travel. They  don't like to use it very much because um and  

especially don't like to do long jumps because  you could um if you travel back in time too far,  

you could get back get on a different timeline  and it would be difficult to get back to your  

own. Uh that's the main reason. Um there's um the  many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics is  

um is uh generally correct except that um uh minor  decisions I'm not sure how the universe decides  

what's a minor decision and what's a major one  but um minor uh decisions in quantum mechanics  

uh where something happens on a subatomic scale  um most of those uh just collapse on themselves  

and don't become a separate timeline but some  do So this is this idea that the wave function  

doesn't actually collapse. It sort of infinitely  branches. But you're saying that in certain cases,  

it's a combination. Some some most of them  collapse, but some of them continue on and  

become a different timeline. Makes rough sense.  That's interesting. Yeah. And then the the ones  

that do continue on are as real as this one. And  um if you go back uh too far and then try to go  

forward again, there's a chance you might end  up on one of those branch points. Yeah. Yeah,  

cross one of the branch points and end up at  a different timeline. Did they connect the,  

you know, quote unquote anti-gravity with the  time travel? Because Biffield Brown effect and  

Towns and Brown himself is very interested in time  travel because of the relationship between gravity  

and time and general relativity. Well, the way  they move faster than light is that they they use  

the anti-gravity drive to open up a wormhole. And  um I'm not sure how they um they choose where the  

other opening of the wormhole is, but they they  can do that somehow. And then they'll go through  

it and go a few million kilometers before the  wormhole collapses. Wormholes are unstable. And  

um they can do the same thing with time. They just  open up a wormhole in a different time where the  

the opening isn't in a different time they want to  visit. And the other reason they don't like to use  

time travel too much is because um it's difficult  to judge exactly when you're going to come out to  

the second like they like to do. Yeah. Well,  that seems to be the case. And you have like  

Travis Walton dropped off near where he was picked  up, but not it's usually not like very precise and  

there's like sort of missing time involved. So  yeah. Yeah. In Dr. in um Travis Walton's case,  

Dr. Leer thinks he or he was dead and they brought  him back to life. Whoa. Why does Roger Leer think  

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Don't put it off because um Travis was thrown  like 20 ft by um either a weapon or getting a  

shock from the electric field around the craft.  And um he um wasn't moving uh when he was flying  

through the air or when he landed on the ground.  And um all the people in his logging crew thought  

he was dead. That is definitely true. Did any of  these beings uh tell you why they were doing what  

they were doing to you? Did they give you any sort  of sense as to why they would implant your toe of  

all places? Um that it was a medical monitoring  device is my understanding uh to or monitor things  

like blood sugar and body temperature and things  like that. Why why you is it just like this thing  

that they it's like if we go to the zoo we tag  the animals sort of thing or what do you what do  

you think? Uh it's kind of like that except that  um it's they do this to to only bloodlines that  

they're interested in and um they have an MMO  where they um they um uh genetically they they  

abduct pregnant women from bloodlines they're  interested in and genetic genetically modify  

the fetus. What determines which bloodlines they  might be interested in? I'm not sure. That would  

be a closely guarded secret on their side, but  um mainly they're interested in uh in Germanic,  

uh Celtic, and Native American people. There are  exceptions, but um they're looking for some sort  

of uh genetic combination that those particular  races have in more abundance. Fascinating. Okay,  

so you have this. Anything Anything else, by the  way? I always I feel like with experiences I'm  

always like damn I should have asked that one more  thing about like what the what the being said. Was  

there anything else you can recall um but them  telling me? Yeah. Anything they told you? Well,  

the part about them um uh being an alliance of  seven different races coming from planets within  

100 light years of um I remember that uh pretty  distinctly. Oh, and they also told me that um that  

the Earth is a very important planet to a lot of  races and that um planets that have some life are  

pretty common, but um planets that are teameming  with life like this are are not common at all.  

He said there's only four or five like it in the  galaxy. And um so they want to preserve uh life on  

the planet and uh they are worried we're going to  screw it up. Yeah, that seems to be a common theme  

uh among experiencers as far as what gets relayed.  Oh, and they told me that there's there's pyramids  

all over the galaxy. They're evidently um uh power  sources and sources of healing rather than tombs.  

You know, it's funny you say this. I feel like 20  years ago in conventional archaeological circles,  

they would have said that that's totally quacky.  And now you have people like Christopher Dunn  

who's, you know, I don't know if you're familiar  with this guy. He's like a former aerospace guy  

coming out saying, you know, that uh it looks  like the pyramid is some sort of power plant.  

And now we actually have synthetic aperture radar  scans underneath the pyramids that where it looks  

like there might be these sort of coiling uh  uh columns, these these hollow tubes that go  

down possibly a kilometer deep. Mhm. So you have  increasing speculation. We know that there have  

never been any tombs found in these structures.  Yeah. And we were just talking earlier that below  

Danderea, you actually have hieroglyphics that  translate to Stargate. The Egyptians talk about  

Stargates. Do they do go to uh where is it? Um  Danderea. There's actually a couple places the  

literal translation. You can read it on the walls.  I always show people when we go there. Uh it is  

there are two or three depictions of Stargates.  That is the literal translation for it. We know  

there are actually little chambers where a human  could probably lie in and you know some of these  

I think in the great pyramid. Yeah. That that  uh sarcophagus they called it in in the queen's  

chamber. It's probably a healing device. Yeah.  Um I have a theory where um gravity is not a a  

uh pulling force but a pushing force. It's um if  you're accelerating through space you experience  

inertia. If space is accelerating towards you,  you experience gravity and um uh 0 point energy  

is turned into real energy in the cores of planets  and stars and that creates a partial vacuum in the  

ether that um that causes the ether to accelerate  towards that gravitating body and um that creates  

gravity. So you I mean this is there's so many  different threads I want to Yeah. It's like the  

um you know the the movie uh Stargate literally  with Kurt Russell you know the Air Force actually  

consulted on that. Yeah. And it's like that it's  this portal or something and then it would explain  

the astronomical alignment the idea that all  the ancient civilizations thought that the souls  

actually the soul moved through Orion's belt which  it seems you know aligned with. Um but there are  

some interesting questions I I feel like I have  to press on that arise from what you just said.  

the ether, you know, they say was disproved  in the 1890s with the Michaelelsson Moley  

experiment. It wasn't it wasn't disproved. Even  Einstein said in his later lectures that um there  

could be an ether, although it would have to be  multi-dimensional and have uh strange properties.  

Well, that's that's that's the case. I mean the  ether um I I believe they told me this too but  

other people have come up with this theory that  um that uh the ether is composed of tiny particles  

that are um on the order of the plunk mass and  the plon dimensions. They're like 10 to the 20th  

times smaller than an atomic nucleus. And they  they have a magnetic and electric dipole moment  

and interact with each other much more strongly  than they interact with uh ordinary matter. And  

um matter going through it without accelerating  um does not experience a force because it acts  

like a super fluid. But when it's accelerating  there's a there's an electromagnetic drag force  

that they call the people that people that uh  believe in this theory call the rindler flux.  

um which uh causes inertia and um um uh you can  actually derive Newton's second law by assuming  

a spatial structure of that nature. Interesting.  Yeah. Whoa. Who's like developed this theory? I  

several several physicists I don't recall their  names off hand but I can look it up for you. Yeah.  

Yeah. I'd love to. Yeah. No, you're right that  um later Einstein said general relativity is not  

actually incompatible with the ether. So that is  an important and then I would also say about the  

michaelelsson mory experiment you know the absence  of evidence is not the evidence of absence. Yeah  

and so we we we just don't know you know but I  do think yeah that's this kind of hotly debated  

contested thing. So it's a very interesting  theory. But in the Michael Marley experiment, the  

ether is probably being dragged by the instrument  itself that might account for the results of no uh  

observable um uh ether movement. But um there was  another guy named Milikin, I believe his name was,  

um that actually did come up with some positive  results for uh e motion through the ether. That's  

interesting. I didn't know that about Robert.  Robert Milikin was at Caltech and Towns and Brown  

actually studied under him and uh then they kind  of got into it cuz Milikin didn't really believe  

in Brown's stuff. Ironically, Brown believed  what you said which is that gravity is more  

of a push than a pull. And so you're saying cuz  Milikin did a lot of the experimental proving of  

the Einstein's photoelectric effect from 1905.  Yeah. But I didn't know that he had something to  

do with the ether and detecting the ether. That's  fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. He he he said he detected  

it and he was a pretty highowered uh physicist.  Really? Yeah. Oh, wow. I He didn't detect it  

directly, but he detected um Earth's motion  through the by an experiment on Mount Wilson,  

I believe it was. Wow. Fascinating. Well,  I'll have to look into that. Um you know,  

it's it's interesting. We t we take so many things  for granted that we've never detected like dark  

matter and the but the ether is like completely  like we're not allowed to talk about. It's like  

a dirty word or something. Yeah. I don't I don't  think I believe in dark matter after 50 years of  

experimentation. There's no evidence for it  at all. So, and you don't you don't really  

even need dark matter to explain the results.  The reason they they postulated dark matter in  

the first place is because um the of the motion  of the galaxies um they they behave as though  

um there's uh either either gravity is acting  as an inverse linear force at those distances or  

um there's um a halo of of massive u  matter above and below the galaxy. Well,  

um the um postulating that gravity is an inverse  linear force at those distances is actually a  

simpler explanation than postulating some unknown  form of matter. Yeah, I think you're right because  

dark I would bet against dark matter and dark  energy. The dark energy is not one of the four  

fundamental forces. It's this sort of you know  just I think dark energy is the zero point energy.  

That's what's causing the earth or the universe to  expand more rapidly rather than it's supposed to  

be slowing down according to Einstein. But uh dark  energy aka um uh zero point energy is causing the  

expansion to accelerate. It's fascinating. Quantum  vacuum fluctuations, right? Yeah. I mean, okay, we  

could have a whole other discussion on physics. I  want to stick with the So, you you experience this  

kind of profound thing. you end up with this, you  know, um, implant in your toe. So, you don't know  

what's happened at that point because you haven't  gotten a hypnotic regression. Is that point? Yeah,  

I I didn't know I didn't remember what happened.  I just I woke up and I knew that I had had an  

implant in my toe. The aliens had been there in  the middle of the night and I had uh one in one  

more on the side of my head, too. Really? You  had my my my head kind of hurt right there.  

Whoa. And uh that shows up in a stud finder.  Okay. Wow. And then you get in touch with Roger  

Lear. Yeah. And you emailed him. Um I just went  to his office. Okay. You just showed up. I just  

made an appointment and and went over there and  and um told him I had a possible foreign object  

in my toe and in the middle of the appointment,  I uh told him that uh it was a it was possible  

alien implant or an abduction related. Excuse me.  I don't think he believed me at at first, but um  

uh he gave me a prescription to get it x-rayed.  And um I he he said to give a copy of the film  

to the patient and I definitely saw something on  the x-ray and that was wild. That is extremely  

wild. What did it look like? Like I tell people  too that there's a heck of a difference between  

uh strongly suspecting that something like this  is going on with you, which I had for years, and  

knowing for sure. And proof like that, you know,  for sure. Yeah. Um what it looked like. It looked  

like a piece of uh bent piece of wire on on the  X-ray. And it was um it was uh larger uh in real  

life when we took it out than it looked on the  X-ray. Wild. Okay. So you see this X-ray and then  

do you have a hypnotic regression and you remember  the full experience with these alien beings? Yeah,  

pretty much. Yeah. And is Roger Leer at that  point kind of bought into the extraterrestrial  

or or other entity, nonhuman hypothesis? Yeah,  he was he was excited. Um he wanted me to come  

over and check out my house and we found all  kinds of anomalies, anomalous magnetic fields,  

um leaves and the uh the trunk of the avocado tree  had become magnetized. Um and uh in the kitchen  

stainless steel knives had become magnetized  and the wood of the cabinets and all kinds  

of stuff. Wood seems to be very susceptible to  magnetization by alien equipment. Interesting. I  

think normally it wouldn't be right. Yeah, it's  either a magnetic monopole or magnetic fields  

beyond a certain strength leave a a residue.  Um uh magnetic monopoles make a certain amount  

of sense. It would be a um it would be ether that  had a magnetic charge to it that would be absorbed  

into the material and it seems to uh decay away  over a period of several weeks. And how many uh  

implants did Roger Lear remove? He removed  a total of I believe 17 from uh 17 different  

people. Wow. And how many have you removed? Um I  I haven't removed any. I don't have a license to  

to operate on. Okay. But you sort of look into  this stuff. I attend I attended the last three  

removal surgeries including my own. Okay. Yeah.  And how many have you seen like firsthand? I've  

seen probably six or seven. Wow. And uh does any  of part of you or does any part of you know from  

your conversations with Roger Lear think that  this could have been human tech? Um no uh most  

of them did not look look like human tech at all  to us and there was reason to believe that that  

uh the materials came from uh not only from space  but from other part of our galaxy. But um we  

did find or he did find one or two that looked  like human tech that looked like just standard  

microchips. Wa. And so so such a crazy territory  to kind of operate in or think about. So you think  

there are maybe a couple that represent I mean  what would those microchips have come from? Well,  

the government's experimenting with implants too,  but they're they're much less sophisticated than  

the ones the aliens use and they're much bigger.  Yeah. And and that would make sense. I mean the I  

mean the Yeah. the government has had like sort of  mind control programs like you know MK Ultra sort  

of stuff and they probably have used chips and  so but these things are they have so they have  

isotope ratios that don't normally occur on earth  that would cost millions of dollars to create a  

centrifuge um any other sort of abnormalities  or anomalies well I I noticed that uh in in  

three of the implants that um had the isotopic  abnormalities the the heavier isotopes in those  

elements were over represented. I I talked to  people who really did analyze the stuff from the  

real deal stuff and it's super weird. It's like  heavy element um you know europium California  

stuff. It's like in these atomic arrangements  that make like no sense. You know, this is through  

X-ray defraction where they can image the shadows  of the atomic pairs and stuff and it's like why  

is all these crazy heavy elements in this like  weird ceramic metal hole structure and it doesn't  

we don't understand the emergent uh metamaterial  property. So it was either it's either either they  

come from closer to the center of the galaxy  where there's heavier supernova and all these  

heavy elements are created in supernova explosions  where there's a massive cascade of neutrons in one  

part of the explosion u and rapid neutron capture  creates these uh elements heavier than iron and  

um uh it's so it's either either that or the  elements had been exposed to a massive quantity of  

u of neutrons. Um either way, it's very uh very  strange and most likely um way beyond human  

technology. Yeah. And a lot of neutrons would be  outside the Van Allen radiation belt or something,  

you know, a lot of or in a in a reactor or a  zeroplane energy uh uh uh energy generator also  

the the no immune reaction. It's like neur you  think of Elon Musk as the tip of the spear with  

technology and you know he had all these issues  with the you know electrode implants in people's  

brains where there would be immune reactions even  to this day I believe Nolan Arba the first patient  

I think might need some like tweaking after like  the first thing worked because of this sort of  

immune reaction issue. Oh yeah Dr. clear told me  that um um any foreign object in the body produces  

an im an immune reaction. Silicone produces the  least immune reaction of all substances known,  

but even that produces a fair amount. Um as a  lot of women that got silicone breast implants  

could testify. Mhm. But uh these produce none  whatsoever. It it's just very beyond strange.  

Do you notice commonalities in behavioral  patterns changing from some of these patients? Um,  

it's I I think there are some changes, but it's  they're hard to to notice. I know that when I had  

uh my toe implant, it was like very subtle,  but it was like uh there was some sort of  

a of a governor put in my thoughts or and I  felt more free once it was removed. It's it's  

but it was very subtle. Wow. And um people  were telling me that I I didn't look well,  

that I had a gray complexion or something when I  had the implant. Really? Yeah. So it affected you  

in sort of a negative way apparently. Yeah. Why do  you think ah it's so strange. I ideally you know  

the alien tech or whatever would you know be so so  you know if it's not creating an immune reaction  

it wouldn't you know suppress your thoughts  in any sort of negative way. Oh maybe maybe  

what they told me about it being a monitoring  device was just a cover story. Maybe they were  

trying to produce some changes or something. It's  fascinating. But um they um um they definitely  

um were were hesitant to put it in because they  know start an investigation and uh I I suspected  

that that I was experiencer for years that had  missing time experiences and had no other way  

to account for them. But um it's kind of easier to  be easy to be in denial if you don't have any real  

concrete proof. It's a wild conversation for me  because you seem like a very smart guy and then  

a lot of these things are just so so out there.  Do did um I mean I wouldn't even entertain I'm a  

scientist. I wouldn't even entertain a lot of this  stuff if I didn't approve. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No,  

it's you're you're backing up all your claims.  So, it's it's really amazing. Um Dr. Roger Lear,  

did you find him to be, you know, fully kind of  bought into the kind of non-human hypothesis as  

the origin for he was fully uh fully bought into  the um uh extraterrestrial hypothesis. Yeah. And  

he it was 17 or 18 implants that he removed  to 17 I believe. Yeah. 17. And um and he had  

no background in this. He was just a podiatrist.  And yeah, he thought it was ridiculous at first,  

too. But um did he stumble upon a per like there  was one of his patients or something and he pulled  

it out? He went to he went to um a convention I  think the UFO congress and um he met Daryl Sims  

there who was um the original guy on the implants  and um uh he tried to convince Dr. Leer that it  

was worth looking into and Dr. Lar said ah you're  full you're full of it and everything and a friend  

another friend of Dr. uh convinced him to go  take another look. And he he went back and  

told Sims that that um you know, if you can get  some patients out here that have these things,  

um I'll X-ray them and take the object out if  it's there and we'll find out what it is. Did  

Lear ever try to write an academic paper on  any of this stuff? Yeah, he he and I tried  

to write a paper and we tried to publish it  in the Journal of Scientific Exploration and  

um they um first they first they said they were  excited to have it. Then I think somebody got to  

them and they said that um it was ridiculous. They  didn't want to publish it. And um we weren't even  

saying it was alien. We just said it was an  unknown object recovered from from somebody's  

uh somebody's leg. And um um they um they really  uh gave us a hard time about it. And um I I'm  

I'm pretty sure that somebody told him not to  publish it. That's so crazy. It's like Yeah,  

because it's funny. you you can go on chat GPT and  they say Roger Leer has no academically, you know,  

uh peer-reviewed papers or whatever. It's like  you tried you we did try. And it's it's funny.  

I think you always have to sanitize the results  and just say no, we found something anomalous  

like we don't we don't we're not even jumping to  conclusions, but even then sometimes there's this  

sort of antibbody rejection of a lot of these  findings. There's a a friend of mine, Beatatric  

Voriel. She's a an astronomer um from Stockholm  University. Um and she's PhD out there. And she  

uh basically from the the Palomar Observatory  uh which was you know one of the most prominent  

uh you know observatories in use in the in the 40s  and 50s. Uh she noticed all sorts of uh these what  

look like essentially UFO like objects. these  these light reflecting objects that look like  

kind of mirrors in orbit. In orbit. Yeah. Yeah. In  geo. Yeah. They they they recruited Clyde Tomba,  

the discoverer of Pluto, to investigate those,  too. That's fascinating. So, there's a history of  

looking into these geocynchronous uh uh objects  that seem to exist in the the the the tens of  

thousands. And he wrote he wrote an article, Tom  Bar wrote an article saying that Earth had um some  

smaller moons orbiting at about 500 miles up.  And um I know from my own experiences that that  

gay mother ships orbited about that altitude. Then  they launch the smaller UFOs that actually go out  

and sort abduct people and such. So fascinating  because the other the other thing is, you know, I  

go back and forth on the moon landing stuff where  I if I'm if I'm debating with the skeptic on the  

moon landing, it's like I'm I'm extremely open to  us having actually landed on the moon, but there  

something's off about the whole story. Something  is off. Well, they're they're concealing a lot.  

There's a lot up there they don't want people to  see that. So, it's like maybe they saw something  

along the way, you know. And um interesting uh  that you mentioned the moon stuff. Um I found out  

um that um Apollo 13 may not have failed by a  mechanical problem. It may have been zapped by the  

aliens because they may have had a nuclear warhead  on board. What? Yeah. How did you find that out?  

Well, I I I I can't prove it, but it was the next  logical step in their seismic uh program where um  

Apollo 11 put a seismograph on the moon and so did  Apollo 12 and it rang like a bell. On Apollo 12,  

they crashed the ascend stage of the lunar module  into the moon and it rang like a bell for hours.  

Then um uh on Apollo 13 when they were approaching  the moon, they they crashed the third stage of the  

Saturn 5 into the moon and made a bigger bang  and rang like a bell for even longer. And um so  

if Apollo 13 had landed on the moon, they would  have had three seismographs and would been able  

to probably map the interior of the moon a little  bit um uh with the seismic waves that would be  

generated by another event. And the the next  logical step would have been to um put a remote  

detonated small nuclear device on the moon and  detonated after the astronauts leave. Jesus. So,  

but you you're just hypothesizing that you have no  evidence that I have I have no real evidence, but  

one thing that made me really suspicious that this  might be true is that um I remember when I was a  

kid uh following this mission and um uh when the  lunar module was coming back to Earth, the uh atom  

the atomic energy commission was just going ape  over this and they wanted the lunar module um uh  

put on a trajectory that would put it into a deep  ocean trench. And their level of concern was they  

they said it was because it had a radioisotope  thermmoelectric generator on board, but their  

their level of concern was a lot more consistent  with it being a warhead. WA That's fascinating. So  

they were that freaked out. Yeah, they even though  it might endanger the astronauts lives to do that,  

they wanted that thing crashed into a deep ocean  trench. And uh they've had RTGs on spacecraft  

before that have re-entered that they weren't that  concerned about. Um it's really interesting. Yeah,  

it's funny. You know, there's a actually an Air  Force project that's documented called Project  

A119, and it was literally to nuke the moon as a  show of force against the Soviets. And Carl Sean  

actually had a temporary clearance. Remember  that it's a look to look into doing this. So,  

we know that in the late 50s, obviously before the  Saturn and Apollo projects, that this was being  

considered. So, who knows? I mean, you might be  right, man. It's really interesting. Well, I know  

that I know that if um if there were no aliens  on the moon or anything else like that to worry  

about, I think I think the grays own the moon, by  the way, and they told us not to come back without  

permission. Anyway, and uh that's You think they  said don't come back without permission? Well,  

Armstrong Arm Armstrong was overheard at a party  saying that. Really? What party? Uh some party  

in Washington DC with big wigs and several people  said that that he said that. But and he said that  

the grays said that's hearsay, but the grays  said, "Don't come back." Yeah. Until we give  

you permission. Something to that effect. Any  other details there? Um uh well um some people at  

NA some whistleblowers at NASA said that um that  he was on a private channel after landing on the  

moon. um and um said that uh that uh a spacecraft  landed on the moon right after they did a few mile  

a couple miles away and were watching him and um  um it was probably the same one that they said  

they saw following him. Um uh the the whole  uh Apollo 11 crew um said a few years ago on  

on television that u that there was some object  following him to the moon that they thought it  

was the third stage of their of their booster at  first, but NASA confirmed that it that that the  

booster was like 700 miles away. And this this  object was maybe only about 5 or 10 miles from  

them. Jesus Christ. And you have you definitely  have documented audio from the Gemini missions of  

them. And then there's a literally like they're  freaking out about um UFOs. There's an outage,  

you know, showing some sort of electromagnetic  anomaly present. And then in the they have this  

um book actually, the Simpkinson uh textbook that  shout out to my buddy Chris Ramsay from the great  

show Area 52. He uh made me aware of this book  where this UFO is like airbrushed into the photo  

for the Gemini 11 mission where it's this like  kind of tongue-in-cheek joke if you're, you know,  

this is official NASA archivist airbrushed this  UFO which looks like the best UFO photo ever.  

Well, the astronauts used to admit to it long ago  before the security was that tight. And um um and  

um I think they were seeing these things uh almost  every mission in the early days. So wild. How many  

people do you think are walking around with alien  implants inside of them? Well, the people that  

they implant uh they they've they've abducted  about 3% of the American population according  

to Dr. L. I think that's about right. It's  between probably between three and 5% that  

take samples. What is he basing that off of? Is  this like sort of a census style like his own  

his own research and extrapolation? Okay. And um  uh based on what I have seen um most uh most what  

I call class 2 experiencers that are actually  at at the next level part of the alien program  

um have implants, but the the first class where  they just take samples from do not generally.  

And um uh about um I would say very roughly about  one in a thousand people are class 2 experiencers  

in this in this country. And it's might be similar  worldwide. I'm not sure. Um so if that's the case  

then say there's 350 million people in the u in  the US. Uh that that would be about uh 350,000  

people. It's a lot of people walking around with  implants. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. That's like 10  

10 to 15 million for experiencers overall and then  class 2 experiencers who get the implants around a  

few hundred thousand. And it's standard procedure  for for them to put a brain implant into class 2  

experiencers that enables them to um access your  sensory information to uh see what you're seeing  

and hear what you're hearing and probably hear  what you're thinking in real time. So you're like  

an almost an avatar or something like they're  you're this perceptual like drone for them or  

something. It turns you into a walking bug and it  and it connects you to the gray hive of mind. They  

told me that too. And uh all all individuals in  their society are connected to a high mind kind  

of like the Borg on Star Trek but they have  a little bit more individuality than that.  

And um um every experience they have is recorded.  And um um uh they um so if if all these people are  

implanted um then they presumably only put um the  brain implants into people that they can get some  

good information from. So being that that's the  case, they probably know everything that's going  

on in the society. M we have Eric Mitchell here  who um we did an amazing show with yesterday and  

he's you know what you might call kind of a super  experiencer. You guys are friends. You found a  

few different implants and Eric is that is that  right or I don't remember what the results were  

off hand. Um my records got stolen recently but  um I'd like to do the the exam again but yeah I  

saw some indications of implants and and Eric and  uh we found some dies on them recently. the alien  

dies. We haven't talked about that yet. So before  we get to the dyes, the implants, what are what  

are we calling indicators of implants? Um well, I  have a protocol that um uh is uh mostly Dr. Leer's  

protocol that he that he turned me on to and um  you um first uh inspect the patient with a um a  

stud finder, a small metal detector that detects  conductive objects into the skin and concentrate  

on any any areas of concern first. um where they  think they might have an implant from anything  

they remember um or any symptoms they might have  had. And um um if if you record the areas where  

you get stud finder hits, then you go over uh the  person with um a G meter a sensitive magnetometer.  

And if you get if you get an area that has a  stud finder and a g meter hit, um that's almost  

certainly an implant because these these implants  uh almost always have magnetic fields. So have you  

had a stud finder and uh magnetometer, you know,  the scouse finder uh hit for Eric? I think we had  

I think we had two recall. Eric, do you remember  where exactly they detected one of these implants?  

uh back to my neck um my arm and Dr. Lear uh he  thought maybe there wip might be one in my knee.  

It was like a weak signal. So he sent me a 100 lb  neodymium magnet which uh I should have been very  

careful opening that box a little more careful  like uh you know it was like a cartoon. There was  

probably dangerous. Yeah, it was dangerous. Um,  but he wanted me to u hold it to my knee maybe 10  

minutes a day, you know, watching TV or something  like that, put it back in the bubble wrap,  

make sure it's safe, and then pull it back out  the next night and keep doing that. And he didn't  

think that it would pull uh it to the surface.  He he theorized that it would create like an eddy  

bubble, an eddy effect to kind of loosen it from  the tissue and bring it, you know, to the surface,  

which actually worked. And so do you have any uh  like incisions or marks or like you know any sort  

of raised skin where either of these implants are  or Okay. Have you removed anything? No. Okay. No.  

Two weeks before I was supposed to meet with Dr.  Roger there uh in um uh Eureka Springs, Arkansas,  

he uh unfortunately passed away. Um yeah, the  um the portals of entry with these implants  

u uh heal incredibly fast. Um mine healed within  hours. So Whoa. You um yeah, you're not going  

to find anything like that. How many implants do  you have like photo evidence of? Um six or seven,  

I think. Could you send some of those over?  It'd be cool to show them to the audience in  

post-production. Sure. Yeah. Sweet. Thank you. And  um yeah. So what are you working on now? What is  

what is is it Neutron Nano Star Tech? Yeah, I have  a company called Neutron Star Technologies and um  

uh Neutron Star Nano Technologies as like a  spin-off of that and um I've been um um just  

um trying to get that funded and um utilize some  of the carbon nano tube knowledge I have to maybe  

produce some products and I've been doing  scans on uh experiencers. Cool. And um I've  

done probably 400 scans on on people and uh so of  those 400 scans, how many produce a hit. Um well,  

it's a pre-selected audience. So um probably  about half. About half. W. Yeah. Interesting.  

And at this point, are you sort of you're known  as like, you know, Roger Lear's, you know,  

living apprentice and so people hit you up? Yeah.  Interesting. Okay. So fascinating. What what how  

old were you when you had your experience? Uh  I remember having experience at age five where  

um I think that's when they put the brain implant  in where I remember um um waking up uh before  

dawn and seeing a a bright yellow um lit up UFO um  disshaped UFO hovering over my parents house. And  

um then I I watched it for a couple of minutes  and blacked out. Then uh woke up about uh 8:00  

in the morning and the sun was up and um I um  had blood all down the front of me and uh had  

a vague memory of somebody putting something up  something something up my nose. Jesus. And this  

was so this was age five. This is well before the  toe experience. Yeah. And where are you living at  

the time? Oxnard, California. Okay. What did your  parents do? Um not much. They just uh saw he had  

a nose bleed and that was wild. I mean, what did  they do professionally? My dad was a dentist um  

and um was uh a colonel in the Army Reserve and uh  my my mother was uh his assistant at one point uh  

and bookkeeper at one point and was housewife the  rest of the time. And they they did did they freak  

out when they saw you with blood running down or  what was their reaction? Not really. I mean, um,  

uh, my parents were, um, not the type that freaked  out about that sort of thing. Interesting. And  

that might be, uh, because of alien conditioning.  I I would Did they have their own experiences? Uh,  

my father admitted much later that uh, he had he'd  had dreams of being on board a UFO and he said he  

said he saw a UFO uh, one time over um, central  California. wild as a cylindrical UFO with a red  

light on the front he said as a as a um colonel in  the reserves. Did he have any sort of affiliation  

with any possible reverse engineering programs  or like deeper spookier? I don't I don't I don't  

think so, but I think there's a lot he he was uh  reluctant to tell me. And um he said he did call  

um the um uh military uh the nearest military  airfield to where he had the sighting and  

reported it. Yeah, it's fascinating. And so  Okay. So, wow. So, you're 5 years old. You  

see this bright object. Do you remember vividly  being on that craft? No, you don't. Okay. So,  

you just wait. I think they I think they came  down into my room to put it in that time. And  

you have And you Where is the implant? It's It's  Or was it? It's It's in the brain. It's in the  

frontal loes of the brain. And do you still have  it there or I'm sure I do. Wild. And um I've got  

one above each ear apparently. Um uh I wasn't  sure about those. I saw them on X-ray barely,  

but they're really really small. Wow. And but they  started giving off they started giving off radio  

signals during a Japanese TV show I was I was uh  filming. Oh my god. How do I know they're there  

now? What were you doing on Japanese TV? Um, they  wanted to interview somebody with implants. Wow.  

And you since you had you're five years old and  you have blood all over and gee that's traumatic,  

man. That's like a tough crazy thing to  go through. Well, uh, this experience is  

pretty traumatic for a lot of people. Yeah. Um,  it's like there's certain advantages to it. Um,  

u you get to fly in space. I mean, a lot of these  abductions are take place on great mother ships  

in orbit. Yeah. Um and uh I remember I remember  seeing the earth from space uh being up there and  

um but um you just have to take the the bad with  the good. I mean I I hate to tell people um this  

but these people are way too powerful to fight.  Yeah. Um and they're experts at mind control.  

They can make you do anything you want, anything  they want you to do willingly. Of the That's a I  

don't even know how to answer to to talk about  that. In the in the 200 out of the 400 that you  

personally found implants in. Um, do these people  have usually UFO experiences associated with the  

implants or in certain cases are is it like  people coming into their room sort of thing?  

Uh they usually remember um seeing UFOs and or  remember being on on board UFOs, but um it's both.  

I mean, sometimes they come into your room and  uh do whatever they need to do, and other times  

um they come and get you and take you up up to  orbit and if they want to do anything special or  

whatever. Do you think at any point in time some  of the mind control stuff we discussed earlier uh  

was like aliens were used as sort of some sort of  smoke screen for that? Like it was like uh there's  

a book called uh controllers by a guy named Martin  Cannon and he talks about MK Ultra but then the  

air MK often and how there are implants involved  in some of these things and how they would shade  

people's experiences to make them think that they  were alien. And to be honest, it's kind of a slim,  

poorly researched book that doesn't for me explain  everything neatly at all. But uh yeah, what's your  

what's your take? I think that that may occur. I  think that MK Ultra might might do that sometimes,  

but I think that the vast majority of the um  experiences people have are uh more or less  

what happened and really are aliens. Um I I have  no doubt in in my mind that that the aliens are  

here and they exist and there's more than one  species involved. Yeah. I mean there's so many  

cases that I also encounter where I'm like you  just can't explain that with with you know human  

prosic tech. I do find it interesting you were  at you were at UCLA in the 80s. Yeah. You know  

who was head of the uh UCLA psychiatry department  at that time. Are you aware? Um I probably was but  

guy named Jolly West. Did you ever interact with  him at all? No. No. He was like a head honcho in  

the MK Ultra. Well, I'm not surprised. Um I  did used to work at the UCLA Neurosychiatric  

Institute as a researcher for about 5 years.  Okay. Okay. I he probably had authority over  

that uh that branch. I bet he might have. Yeah. I  don't know. But definitely a spooky not great guy.  

I think he got in trouble for like dosing up an  elephant with ridiculous amount of LSD and then  

the elephant died and he's on record uh there are  letters between him and Sydney Gotautle and he he  

there's a great book called Chaos by a guy named  Tom O'Neal who's become a friend of mine and he  

basically has this hypothesis that Charles  Manson was this MK Ultra patient and it's a  

really crazy he may have been I think I think  that um that that guy that um shot uh Um um

John Lennon was uh Yeah. Yeah. MK Ultra guy. And  I think I think Syrian Syrian that shot Robert  

Kennedy was too. I think so as well. Yeah. Yeah.  So that's this is a weird threat. But so there's  

that stuff and then the Do you think what do you  think these the implants are doing when it comes  

to the alien? You think it's just it's just  tagging? It's biometrics and and then maybe  

there's some mind control stuff going on. It's  perceptual hacking. I I don't know. I don't know  

all the details of of what they do. Um um they  keep that the aliens keep that mostly secret,  

but I think some of them are medical monitoring  devices. Some of them are tracking devices. Um and  

uh some are um the brain implants actually  enable them to uh hear and see what you're  

hearing and seeing seeing in real time. Do does  um any of the structure that you've investigated  

um kind of allow you to see what the functionality  might be like cuz you're you're looking into you  

know nanotechnology so presumably this would use  nanotechnology. They do. Yeah. They're they're  

sophisticated nanotechnological devices. Um most  of them have carbon nanot tube electronics built  

into the metal and that's beyond our technology.  M um and uh there's strange structures I can show  

you some of the electron microraphs u please and  um there's very strange structures that um would  

be beyond our technology to form right now I'm not  sure what they do but I suspect that has something  

to do with uh uh emitting the radio signals of a  lot of these people you encounter um is it usually  

grays is it sometimes Nordics or reptilians  or some of these other sort of archetypes  

Um I remember seeing um mostly different  types of grays um on board uh on board the  

craft. The the real short worker type grays  and the the ones about 4 and 1/2 ft tall that  

I call the scientist engineer types. And um  uh I have a handler that's one of those. And  

um I think most most class 2 experiences have  a handler. What what when you say handler,  

what does that mean? Um a contact person that that  is in charge of your case on board ship. Whoa. Um,  

so a being. Yeah. Being. Yeah. And how do you  like are you still telepathically in touch with  

that handler or something or uh I have reason to  believe I am. Yeah. I think he's hearing hearing  

this whole conversation right now. Whoa. Um what's  up handler? And u uh they record um everything  

that uh is experienced by every member of their  society and that includes class 2 experiencers.  

Uh when you get the brain implant it connects  you to the great hive mind. Like I said, this is  

wild. Does does any part of you think that humans  discovered, you know, there was this I think in  

um early 2000s there was this concern of the like  runaway gray goo nanotech, you know, scenarios and  

nanotech was all the rage in the early 2000s  and then it sort of like went away. And does  

any part of you think that humans can do any of  this stuff like in deep black contexts? I think  

that that nanotechnology is not that dangerous as  long as you don't design some uh some microp probe  

that's self-replicating and but um yeah, that was  the Grey Goose scenario. Even if even if you did,  

I'm not sure it would be all that dangerous. But  um I think what is dangerous is AI. If they ever  

do develop true self-aware AI, I think that would  be extraordinarily dangerous. Yeah. Seems like the  

aliens don't believe in it. So I think that's why  Yeah. They believe in computers, but they They're  

controlled by um by minds. Do you think there  are good and bad factions of aliens or do you  

think they're all good or all bad or No, I think  there's good and bad factions. Um the beings that  

implanted you think good or bad or they're mainly  out for themselves. Um but they're not all they're  

not scum sucking evil either. I mean, they they  they want um humanity to mature into a peaceful  

more peaceful species and become members of the  Galactic Federation or whatever you want to call  

it. And but they're mostly here to um mine the  Earth and the Moon and collect biological samples.  

I mean, that that seems reasonable and not not  bad. Um what do you think of modern dis They don't  

they don't care about the suffering they inflict  on people. That's that's one bad thing about them.  

um they they everything is for the group with  them. They're they're a collective mind. Um they  

don't care about individuals and they they just  care about what's best for the group. Why do you  

think they care so much about nuclear? They seem  to show up. Some of my favorite interviews have  

been these guys that are often in their 70s and  80s at this point. They worked at nuclear bases  

all over the US and in certain cases they  board crafts, they have implants, you know,  

they're close encounters of the third kind and  I guess what you're calling kind of type two,  

you know, abductions or something. Yeah.  Um, yeah, I think a lot of lot of mil lot  

of top military people are implanted and  keep the aliens keep tabs on them. But,  

um, I think they don't want us having nukes  because, um, A, it makes us too powerful. B,  

it, um, it has the great potential to screw up the  planet and, screw up a lot of their their plans  

for this place. And C, um, it, uh, can damage the  planet's life force. reasonably believe there's  

structures in the ether that um contribute to  life on this planet somehow and a nuclear blast  

could disrupt that at least in the general area  where it was detonated. And they they said also  

that it it screws up their communications and uh  leads to problems in other dimensions that they  

didn't want to go into. Yeah. No, that that is  interesting about like they seem to show up at  

nuclear disaster. Like there's this lit literally  this monk at this Shinto temple in uh Fukushima  

and when they had their 2011 famous nuclear  spill due to the earthquake, he was like the  

the UFO showed up and cleaned up the temple. They  were trying to alleviate the radiation. Exactly.

There's a Harvard PhD named Jensen Andre who  writes about basically a similar experience  

in Chernobyl and they they measured this like  nuclear tower before and after. And so I think  

it goes beyond just them not wanting us to  blow ourselves up. There's something about  

the ambient electromagnetic radiation of just the  Earth that is this perfect kind of petri dish,  

you know, biosphere. Yeah. Yeah, that  that makes sense. And and there's  

um maybe the maybe the Earth is actually emitting  some of this, but there's there's structures  

in the ether that are lifegiving and that might  even resurrect some extinct species at some point  

in time. And nuclear blast could disrupt that  and radiation in general can disrupt that. And  

um also the government's known for years um the  the aliens definitely have this technology and  

the government's known for years that um you can  actually affect the decay rate of radioisotopes by  

certain uh scalar electromagnetic waves. Um scalar  waves are are a special form of electromagnetic  

radiation that has a different structure. It's a  more fundamental form of electromagnetic radiation  

than the transverse waves they talk about in  the textbooks. And um it interacts with the  

nuclei rather than the electrons and atoms like  transverse waves do. Explain what a scalar wave is  

because scalar physics and scalar waves are often  thrown around in these super handwavy ways and  

yet they're often used as terms you know extended  electronamic scalar waves by people who I really  

respect in kind of aerospace world. So what's your  definition? It's they're trying to keep it secret,  

but um enough has got out to know the basics. Um a  guy Dr. Tom Bearden talked about this a lot in his  

books if you've read any of those. Yeah. And um  anyway, a scalar wave, a transverse wave, EM wave  

is a um wave that um has the E and the B fields  perpendicular to each other and it moves in a  

manner perpendicular to both. And um the E and the  B fields are in phase. In a scalar wave, um the  

electric and magnetic fields are 90 degrees out  of phase. And um the magnetic field curves around  

like that and the electric field um radiates as  if it's coming from a positive or negative charge  

point. And um it uh it's like a sound wave in the  ether basically. Um and they can travel faster  

than light. They're not restricted to light speed.  So I've heard similar things to that. And then the  

two places I always get frustrated is I'm like,  have we ever measured a scalar wave? And usually  

the answer like have we? Do you think we have? Uh  I think they have lots of times. And how would we  

classified labs, but I I have reason to believe  that I haven't done the experiments yet. I'd  

love to to get in the lab and do some, but um uh I  have some quantum reason I have reason to believe  

that you that you can generate scalar waves with  standard radio equipment, but a different type of  

antenna. M you'd use a a dome-shaped antenna, a  capacitive antenna with um say um say a plastic  

dome with metal on both sides and you connect the  the electrodes of the u of the oscillator to um  

each metal metal piece. Fascinating. Okay. And why  do you think that that design would allow you to  

transmit scalar waves? Um uh towns and browns work  basically. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he had an asymmetric  

capacitor where the negative electrode was larger  than the positive electrode. But I think basically  

my sense is that the main thing is big electric  field differentials. If you create big electric  

field differentials, then you can somehow harness  the quantum vacuum fluctuation stuff. Yeah,  

high voltages work better with that. I have reason  to believe I I I wish I could uh I wish I had some  

concrete proof for you, but um just reading all  this stuff that's available and thinking about it  

a lot and put this together. Yeah. Um but yeah, I  think high voltages should work better for that.  

Yeah, it's very interesting. Yeah, I mean high  voltages definitely correlate with high electric  

field strength and then there are ways to amp up  the electric field strength kind of artificially.  

Yeah. As well. But um so fascinating. So what are  you trying how do we advance on this topic now?  

Is this are we just in the stone age when  we find these implants? Are we just like,  

we think this works like XYZ, but we just have  no idea what we're kind of looking at or Well, I  

think the next step is we have to do more research  um on the implants, excuse me, while they're  

still in the body and um try to um u measure  exactly how much they're transmitting and um  

uh try to decode some of the signals and uh after  they're removed from the body, I think we need to  

um we need to try to connect the connect the um  there's uh carbon nanot tube bundles that are  

like the main connections to the device. We should  try stimulating those with with uh uh different  

voltages and see what happens uh under electron  microscope or or under microscopy in general. It  

wouldn't have to be a EM for that I guess. Is  there anybody else systematically looking into  

this besides you? No. And then the third thing  I would do is um use fast atom bombardment to  

uh shave off uh uh the devices layer by layer  and um map the distribution of elements in each  

layer and the distribution of carbon nanot tubes.  That would be fascinating. I mean if you could do  

some atom by atom you know analysis that would  be also just groundbreaking because if if these  

things are fabricated on the atomic layer and then  that's not something that we can do. Yeah. They  

look like they're grown somehow. That's so wild.  Like they're like they're biological themselves  

or something. Uh or or nanotechnological like  they look like they were grown by some sort of  

mechanical life like the Transformers on the  the movies. Um uh that's a hand waving thing,  

I guess, but that's the best I can do right now.  But um putting that putting a device like that so  

complex together uh by uh standard methods would  be next to impossible I think. And um um the other  

thing I wanted to say is that um when I first got  into this I thought the aliens are probably only a  

few hundred years in advance of us technologically  but um now I think that uh it might be more like a  

million years in advance of us. Why is that? Well,  I've se they they show off once in a while and and  

um and uh show experiencers exactly how  far ahead of us they they really are. Um

um one incident uh that um really impressed  me um was that um they um zapped my car with  

some kind of an energy weapon when I was um uh  going to Dr. builder's office to um uh film um  

uh him um testing the implant while it was still  in the body. And um uh the mechanic said later  

that the the computer in the car was fried like  it was exposed to EMP or something. And uh so I  

had to walk like that they did it when uh I was in  this canyon didn't get any cell phone reception.  

So I had to walk like 2 miles down the canyon to  get cell phone reception and call him. And um uh  

he and the film crew showed up and and picked me  up and brought me to the office. And when we got  

to the office, he goes, "Steve, come here. You got  to see this." And uh he'd pulled my X-ray out of a  

stack of X-rays. And um um it was in a stack with  about 200 other X-rays. and um he showed it to me  

and the lettering from the outside of the envelope  that the X-ray was in had somehow been transferred  

to the developed X-ray film. What? Yeah. I'm not  even sure in theory how you could do that. So,  

it's like root access to reality levels of  manipulation or something. Something like  

that. Um and bizarre. Another time, um, my son and  I were, uh, driving to our old vacation place in  

Bullhead City, Arizona, and we were on Highway  40, out in a remote area, and, um, I saw this,  

uh, this bright white light hovering over this  valley about 5 or 10 miles away. And, and it  

was really bright and I go, "Hey, look, Garrett,  there's a UFO." And he goes, "What? I don't He I  

don't see anything." And I'm like, "How could you  not see that? It's like as bright as Venus and  

um so I was tripping out on that and go well you  know and um then um a few miles down the road uh  

he started seeing ones that I couldn't see. It's  like they can they can control who sees them uh  

and who doesn't. And I don't know how they do that  either. Yeah. not not only signature management  

but like unique sign signature management for the  person perceiving. Yeah, I have I have some some  

uh theories about how they might manage to cloak  themselves in general by various methods. But  

um what do you think it is? Selective selective  uh uh seeing like that sounds uh a little hard to  

do. That seems really hard to do. Do you like the  access to our brains and they have access to the  

signature management stuff. Do you think that  we have reverse engineering programs and crash  

retrievalss and all? Oh, yeah. I think that's  all true. Yeah. Do you have any What's your like,  

you know, highest conviction, hardest evidence on  that? Cuz you seem like an evidence-based person.  

Um, well, I I analyzed some of the um the wreckage  from the San Augustine, New Mexico UFO crash and  

analyzed a piece of um an alien uh orb or sphere  from that time got a hold of. And um was this  

the Boougga sphere or No, not the Bugosphere, but  another one. The Boogas had different uh different  

design, but um uh this one um was about about  this big round and it had um large um vaporized  

from the looks of it um holes in the the north and  the south poles of the sphere. Um the the edges of  

the holes had been damaged by tremendous heat.  And um uh Massan bought it from a farmer that um  

uh farmed about 100 miles south of the US south of  the US border um near Brownsville, Texas on the uh  

uh east coast of Mexico. And um he said that when  it crashed um it produced an explosion that killed  

a cow 100 meters away. Wow. And um uh if if there  was a strong magnetic field around the craft,  

which or or which I have reason to believe there  was um then um the collapse of the magnetic field  

is what released the energy that that vaporized  the metal at the top and bottom. Why do you think  

this whole topic it's like it attracts a few  really smart people like yourself and then you  

have so much circumstantial evidence like an  abundance of circumstantial evidence and then  

somehow it's like the one smoking gun that we  always want is slips through your fingers. And  

I I'm talking about this as a person who's I'm  deeply my revealed preference is that I'm like  

deeply interested in this topic. I think there's  a there there. I'm not a skeptic, but it's like  

this like it's always like the hard drive goes  missing at the end. The photo is a little too  

blurry for like the consensus to believe it. It's  so frustrating. It depends what you consider a  

smoking gun. I think that these um extremely  um skewed isotopic ratios might be considered  

a a smoking gun. And um the fact that um a lot  of these uh these pieces are nanotechnological  

devices beyond our technology. And um like that  sphere was um a made of a titanium alloy that um  

had carbon nano tubes also built into the metal  which I think provided thrust by the the Bfield  

Brown effect. It did. Yeah, I think so. I mean  I don't know what else could have made it fly.  

Do you have this thing? Um not anymore. It got  stolen. Got stolen. Yeah. Who stole it? My family,  

if you can believe that. Oh, man. I'm sorry. Yeah,  that's horrible. Yeah. Um why they they took it?  

Yeah, I I still do have uh some other alien stuff,  but um um but um yeah, I I can't find it anymore.  

I have reason to believe it was with in some  stuff that they stole. Jesus Christ, man. I'm so  

sorry. That's messed up. It's not cool. No. Do you  have is it how does your family view I mean your  

your wife is here. She's absolutely lovely and I  can tell she's interested in this topic. Do you  

have other family and what do they think of your  interest in all this stuff? Uh well, my ex-wife  

is a um Christian fundamentalist or says she is  because of her her family's uh convictions and um  

uh she's uh I think convinced my kids that um  that I'm uh of the devil or something along  

those lines. Jesus, I'm sorry. And my mother is  kind of unstable and also is uh kind of turned my  

kids against me as well. Um, she's she's afraid  I'll embarrass her by going on on the air or  

putting stuff on the internet, things like that.  Well, I'm sorry, man. I think your brain is a gift  

to humanity. So, uh, and so we don't know where  this object is that was taken from you. Uh, no,  

I don't know. Damn, that's crazy. And then what  about the um the piece from uh St. Augustine crash  

in New Mexico? I still have I still have some  of that. That's fascinating. And have you done  

you've done isotopic analysis on that and that  has isotope ratios that are weird or the isotopic  

ratios on on that uh were not that remarkable. Um  uh so that material may have may have come from  

earth. You may have some manufacturing facilities  on earth too. Um what uh material is it? Like what  

element? Uh it's mainly aluminum. Okay. Okay.  Um the the sphere was a titanium alloy that with  

carbon tubes built into the metal and small like  half millimeter voids introduced into the metal  

to lower the density. So it had uh tremendous  strength. Um and was stronger than most any  

titanium alloy I know of. Um but it was about  the same density as aluminum. And when you say  

Biffield Brown, you're just assuming that that's  the anti-gravitational force created. You could  

make capacitors out of the um the carbon nanot  tubes. The carbon nanot tubes had a capacitive  

dialectric coating on them in this case. So it  seems a reasonable assumption. So interesting.  

And you could use that spherical shape um as a  receiver for scalar energy. Tesla was trying to  

do that to power flying vehicles. Did he have  designs for flying? I know he had I think he  

actually I think he actually flew some rumor has  it. Really? Yeah. Where are those rumor? I didn't  

know about that. That's amazing. Oh, um just  there's um a book called Lost Silence. I believe  

it's in there. It's hard to get a hold of now. Do  you have any footage of the implant being taken  

out of any of these patients? Um I'm not sure if  I I'm I may I may have like one or two uh pieces  

like that. I definitely have a lot of photos and  stuff like that. It'd be amazing to show as much  

as we can just cuz I think uh the average person,  this is so far out. Um, yeah. I mean, it's it's  

way people don't believe it because it's it's so  far uh outside what we're taught. Yeah. And um  

uh the government's done their best to um punish  people that believe in this in various ways. Yeah.  

I I feel like I have to ask this question, but I  feel like it's important for you uh cuz you seem  

like a very lovely person. I've really enjoyed  this conversation. If you Google your name, uh,  

for whatever reason, this OKC bombing thing shows  up. And so, I just want to give you an opportunity  

to address what that is. A massive car bomb  exploded outside of a large federal building in  

downtown Oklahoma City, shattering that building,  killing children, killing federal employees,  

military men, and civilians. Oh, yeah. Well, I got  I got in trouble with the feds uh 30 years ago on  

um a uh gun charge, weapons charge, and um uh I uh  got uh investigated along with 14,000 other people  

that were uh into similar things at that time. And  um they um as near as I can figure, the ATF was  

trying to punish me for not cooperating in their  investigation by trying to link me to that that  

bombing. Oh, they were just trying to link you  to that. Yeah, they didn't. And you didn't you  

never knew Timothy McVey or anything? No, they  never read any proof of any of that. That's so  

weird. In fact, I found out from a guy that was  writing a that's writing a book on Oklahoma City  

that I was cleared early on in the investigation,  but they kept on saying that on the news that  

uh that sucks, man. It almost makes me think  there's some sort of campaign against you  

because like why is there so much online that's I  think there is. I think I think they're trying I  

think they're they're taking full advantage  of that whole thing to try to discredit my  

UFO research now. Yeah. And you never cross paths  with McVey at all. You never even met the guy. No,  

I met never met the guy. That's so crazy. And he  he didn't have a UCLA connection or anything like  

that. No. Okay. No. That's weird, man. I'm sorry.  Um Well, I you know, if I wrote down everything  

that's occurred in my life in an autobiography,  I don't think anybody believe it. Yeah. You know,  

but I experienced it. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I  mean, what what's anything come to mind? Well,  

just all all this stuff and you know, first they  try to link me to this Oklahoma thing and then the  

aliens show up and just a very um very odd series  of events. Yeah. And is there is there anything  

about your is there anything about your father  his history that might be related to so you said  

at the end of his life you sort of admitted that  he was you know um uh maybe you know was taken  

up on a craft. Do you think he was doing any sort  of covert work in any of these areas or I I'm not  

sure. I I don't think he was doing any covert work  but um he was he was he kept things pretty close  

to his chest. So, um I think if he was I'd be the  last person he would have told. Interesting. Okay.  

Yeah. I don't know what would have even been going  on at Oxenard specifically, but yeah. Yeah. Well,  

there's a there's a um military base there that  near there that was very important at one time.  

Point Magcoo. Okay. Point McU. What did they do at  Point Moo? Uh tested a lot of missiles. Um Okay.  

Uh submarine launch missiles and air-to-air  missiles mostly. Okay. It's fascinating,  

man. Well, I really hope you get all the support  uh for your work. You're trying to raise money  

for this this this company. Is that right? Neutron  Star Nanotech. The economy being so bad right now.  

I haven't had a whole lot of success, but um I'm  still hoping to um get that off the ground. Well,  

hopefully this gets amplified among people  with deep pockets who are interested,  

I think, in supporting, you know, some of the most  frontier science and work. Oh. Um, uh, uh, very,  

uh, wealthy people have come forward a a couple  of times and, uh, wanted to support my work, but  

it it fell through and I I had reason to believe  at the time that that, uh, the government told him  

not to do it. Really? Yeah. Robert Bigalow was  going to hire me for his company at one time,  

too, and that also fell through. What? Why do you  strange? What do you think it is? you know, with  

Bigalow and a lot of these guys, it's like there's  this desire to get into this stuff and you really  

want to know and then things get like dark at a  certain point. Like it's it's it's sort of it's  

it's a very and I find this, you know, uh with my  own inquiries into the topic where like it's just  

uh it's hard to navigate because there's a lot of  weird stuff, you know, it's there's a lot there  

a lot of bad there's a lot of bad energy and then  there's there's good energy, too. They're amazing  

people in this field, but a lot of people are  attracted to it for the wrong reasons. And there's  

I think there's even like a like an Old Testament  line about trying to use trying to go into, you  

know, kind of sacred stuff using with a commercial  impulse and not being like this really, you know,  

bad thing to do. Having said that, I think we  live in a capitalist system and like the only  

thing that kind of works in the modern day is like  start a company around the thing. So I'm not like  

anti- all companies, you know, I used to invest  in companies. So it's this weird but it is this  

weird thing where I think if if the motivation is  to make money off the thing, it often goes south.  

And I I don't know Bigalow. I'd love to interview  him, but my my sense is it sort of didn't pan out  

maybe in the way he wanted it to. Well, Dr. told  me that that he he started this aerospace company  

of his um uh because uh he'd had uh an alien  experience of his own out in the desert and  

um that um uh they told him to meet them in space.  Who who said this? This is the aliens told him to  

meet to meet them Bigalow. They told Bigalow to  meet them in space. Whoa. Really? Yeah. I think  

so. Bigalow had an experience and the aliens said,  "We'll meet you in space." And then from then on,  

he like committed his life essentially to looking  into all this stuff. UFO reverse engineering,  

hiring the alien implant specialist like really  on the Big Aerospace website, there was a little  

alien uh head too. Wow. Kind of like he was  announcing that or that is absolutely wild.  

the amount of stories you hear like that like  um I think Agnu Bonsson who uh he headed up the  

Institute for Field Physics and um you know uh uh  at North Carolina Chapel Hill and he also funded  

Towns and Brown. So he's working on all this crazy  anti-gravity stuff and hosting kind of the top  

gravity physicists in the world. Freeman Dyson  Fineman um Peter Bergman all these guys convened  

John Wheeler at the Institute of Field Physics  in 1957 for this Chapel Hill conference and he in  

his diaries talks about like the space brothers  talking to him and possibly kind of prompting  

him to look into this stuff. Towns and Brown had  similar experiences where he he had space brother  

experiences that he discusses. So it's like you're  being prompted by the beings to look into what  

their tech is or something. They they they talked  to Tesla, too, according to what to his writings.  

He said that. Yeah. In Colorado Springs, he  said he communicated with aliens. Did you  

um ever have anything like that? I mean, I have  to ask you because you're working on all this  

stuff. Did the beings ever say, "Steve, you are  going to dedicate your life to alien research?"  

I I don't remember them saying that specifically,  but I've always had um an obsession with um with  

uh uh this kind of research and um certain other  things. Um and I think that they do that to a lot  

of people because um once you get obsessed with  the topic and you do all this research on it,  

if they have a brain implant in you, then they  know it too at that point. So they're they're  

getting you to do their research for them.  Yeah. Uh it's like this weird distributed  

science model or something where like they just  have they're collecting intel through these  

different scientific nodes or something. It's  so trippy. Yeah. Yeah. And we're all we're all  

maybe there science experiment. Who knows? Well,  one of the obsessions uh part of the reason I got  

into trouble before is one of the obsessions was  with weapons and um I you know it's I think that's  

uh kind of characteristic with some uh some people  that are class 2 experiencers. There was one guy  

that was most likely a class two experiencer that  um that uh had a bunch of guns in his house and  

there was a there was a big to-do over that.  So maybe it's a characteristic. I don't know.  

Fascinating. Well, Steve, I really appreciate  this. This was a lot of fun. Uh, I feel like I  

could talk to you for hours. I can tell we're  interested in a lot of the same stuff and um,  

yeah, I really really appreciate your your  time. Yeah, no problem. My pleasure. Awesome.

Heat.

Heat.