Hey, welcome to the market hang. I'm

Dandy D Franchesco. We have Jess here.

We have Julie here. We have Jed here.

It's the J show. Um and

>> I didn't even think about that, isn't

it?

>> Yeah, it's all the J's JJ and D. Um so

we've been talking a lot, you know, are

things going to go bad? Are things going

to go bad? And and in this sea of

markets, right, the the stock market

ship has faced a lot of headwinds, but

the what the gust in the sales has been

earnings time and again, it's pushed it

through everything, and earnings are

starting up again. and uh PepsiCo

reported and you know we had a very

interesting point made on yesterday's

show. It's another reason why you should

be watching every day by Chris Versace.

So I want everyone to listen in to what

Chris said

>> before earnings. This is yesterday.

>> We're all talking about AI and tech. You

know that's 40% of the market tech

adjacent 50% of the S&P 500. So you got

to sit there and you got to wonder about

the other half.

>> Mhm. And then you take a look at the

run-up in diesel prices, cotton prices,

you know, all sorts of other inputs. You

look at the warnings that you've got in

the S&P um global US composite report

for August, September about input

prices, the pass through of output

prices, something's going to have to

give. Mhm.

>> And if you look at PepsiCo and their

fleet, you look at PepsiCo and their

snack business in the ingredients, you

look at PepsiCo in sugar prices,

>> to me, they're going to be they're

they're going to be like one of the

first reads outside of tech that tells

us about all of these things that have

been moving higher causing inflation.

>> Crystal ball apparently. And he knew.

And what do you know? PepsiCo reports

today and and what comes out? It lowers

its guidance. It says consumers are

looking for cheaper products. They're

they're, you know, they're not

completely pulling back, but they're a

lot more costconcious and it's pulling

down on their margins. I think the Pepsi

CEO also said, "We don't feel good about

the beverage industry," which is not

what you want to hear the CEO of a

beverage industry person say. So, I will

put it to all of you. Is this the uh to

again to rely on an old journalism term,

the canary in the coal mine? Are we

starting to get nervous or is this just

kind of the status quo? And look,

consumers are being more costconcious.

Jasmine, we'll start with you.

>> Um, we've already known that consumers

are being very costconcious, especially

on the lower end, and I have been

concerned with that consumer for quite

some time, especially with this

environment. But we're seeing rising

input costs. This is a squeeze on

margins. If this bleeds over into the

rest of earnings season, then we could

really have a problem because what's

carrying the market right now is

earnings momentum. it is concentrated in

AI and technology and that is broadening

a little bit but if this is more of a

constraint on a consumer then that could

have a ripple effect

>> and that's just something to pay

attention to

>> right Julie where do you come out

>> yeah I mean I don't think that Pepsi is

necessarily that big flashing warning

sign I mean first of all the stock is up

today which is interesting right and the

company seemed to open the door on the

call at least more than they have in the

past to the possibility of separating

the businesses

which have been there have been

questions about that in the past. I

think they've kind of dismissed it. So

this time they were a little bit more

open to that. Maybe that's one of the

reasons the stock isn't down more. Um

>> international also doing I think better

>> doing better than domestic for sure. And

so I don't know. I mean in terms of the

read through for other stuff from higher

costs to Jess's point like yes we're

going to see that across the board.

anything that is touched by diesel, by

agricultural costs of any kind, by some

of the tariffs that are still in pace

place. Aluminum for example, right? All

of that, we're going to see those cost

pressures make their way around anything

that has anything to do with that.

>> Jed, what about you?

>> Uh, we own Pepsi in our dividend select

strategy at Argent. So, I'm offended by

this whole

um uh ju just joking, not really. Um, we

own Pepsi because uh they pay a high

dividend and we think they can grow the

dividend, you know, five or six or 7% a

year. And in a diversified portfolio,

that's a good thing to have, especially

when times get tough. But I think all of

your commentary is right. Input costs

are rising. Consumers are being pickier

than normal. Consumers are shifting to

healthier snacks. Um, a breakup would be

beneficial. I think um Coke has, you

know, significantly outperformed Pepsi

over the years. So, uh, all of that is

true. I don't think it's a canary in the

coal mine. Um, I think that um um like

the like the spokesperson said, tech is

over half of the S&P 500. So that's

driving the boat and uh everything else

is way in the back of the boat and

Pepsi's back there.

>> Sure. I will throw in one more, right?

Constellation also came in this week,

showed that shipping was up, but

depletions, right? Constellation is the,

you know, owner of a bunch of, uh, you

know, beverage uh, companies, a lot of,

uh, beer, I think Medela and whatnot.

Um, but depletions, which is also what I

like to say when I use their product,

um, which is sending to the retailers,

that was actually down. So, again,

another little bit crack. So, I I

definitely see your point though, Jess,

to your point, like this is something

we've known for a while. It's a matter

of is it going to continue to kind of

spiral out to to the other players in

the market, right? That's when we start

to get nervous.

>> Yeah. I mean, and Constellation's

actually doing a little bit better than

some of its

>> sure

>> competitors even though it's not doing

great because there's a lot of sort of

headwinds in the in the alcohol

industry, right? There aren't enough

depletions. You're not doing your job.

>> I'm not doing my job. Yes, I'm not doing

my job. Um, I guess we're talking about

the consumer. I'm just going to jump to

it because I'm very excited about this.

There's been a report. Imagine a world.

You're like, you know what? What do I

need? I need some coffee. I'm going to

go to Starbucks. I'm going to get my

Venti cold brew. And you know what? I'm

feeling pretty hungry, too. Why don't I

get a burrito? The the the massive

combination, Starbucks and Chipotle.

Now, there's a lot to unpack here. I

mean, my first inclination is obviously

I think of I grew up very close to a

Duncan BaskinRobins. You have the KFC um

Taco Bell combo or KFC Pizza Hut. Um do

we think these are two brands that are,

you know, working on a turnaround,

right? And we can get to the CEO

flip-flop, too. Uh what is what stands

out to you? Again, this is all reported.

Nothing this is all, you know,

reporting. I think the FT was the one

that broke it. I know Sephor was in the

mix, too. So, nothing is definitive yet,

but um what do we make of these two very

big consumer brands potentially coming

together?

>> I mean, can I just chime in and say like

I'll leave you guys to talk about

whether it makes business sense. To me,

this is like Brian Nickel who obviously

was at Chipotle, had a very successful

run at Chipotle, and now is trying to

turn Starbucks around. And meanwhile,

Chipotle stock has been cut in half, and

he's looking back and he's like,

>> "Oh, man. What about my legacy? I was

the guy at Chipotle. What are we going

to do?" Well, we're gonna buy it and I'm

gonna do work my magic on it again. I I

I don't know. It feels a little like

that.

>> Plus, he hasn't moved since leaving

Chipotle. You know, he hasn't moved up

to he still lives where he's

>> right. So, do you think he secretly just

wants his old job back? Maybe. Um I've

I've never had a coffee in my life, so

I'm I'm unqualified to join this

discussion, but um I think it's a it's a

horrible idea. uh fixing Starbucks is is

yeah I think he thinks that fixing

Starbucks is harder than he than he

probably bargained for a year a year

year and a half ago and it would be easy

to buy something that he is cheap and he

knows um

>> J I'm sorry never had coffee

>> never not once

>> really are you a tea guy? No, no tea. My

wife, so you're not a caffeine guy,

>> correct?

>> Good for you.

>> Yeah.

>> Wow. Interesting. I almost I want to

give you a coffee and see like we're

going to unlock things. This is like

limitless.

>> I want to analyze all of his health

levels in comparison. That's the the

detail where my

>> wife's working hard on it. Um

>> if you've gotten this far without it, I

think you're probably in good shape.

>> Yeah, you're definitely better off than

the rest of us. Um, sorry, Jess. I Where

do you come out on this the Starbucks uh

Chipotle monster?

>> Um, I'm curious on this massive deal

just how they would fund it and what

that would look like because right now

we're in this capital constraint

environment. We're have equities

issuance to raise capital. We have free

cash flow coming down from big tech and

then that's going into the bond market.

So, how are they going to actually fund

it?

>> Interest rates are high today. I mean,

the financing on something like that

would probably be like seven or eight%

I'm guessing.

>> Yeah. But does does Starbucks have the

cash though? Don't they have I mean I

don't know. I haven't looked at their

>> Now I want to look at their

>> Yeah, I believe that they sold their

China subsidiary and probably improved

their balance sheet significantly when

they did that in the past year. So

>> I mean they have some cash. It looks

like they've got a not a huge amount

three and a half billion or so but um

and they already have some debt it looks

like.

>> Right. So Jed top line though a

combination not something that like oh I

want that in my portfolio. the history

of large consumer M&A and retail M&A is

very poor.

>> So I you know this is one where you're

like 9010 this is a bad idea.

>> Jess do you kind of land the same place

or do you see a little more optimism in

a potential deal here and for for

investors perspective

>> you know this is definitely not my area

of expertise in looking at M&A but from

I just think it's odd

>> as in I can't really point to anything

that is of recent of that. It seems like

an odd time to do that just to where the

consumer is. And I just think the timing

makes me question management.

>> Pumpkin spice burrito bowls. I mean,

guacamole frappuccinos. Guys, there's

real synergies here. I think we're

selling short on it.

>> Does it mix?

>> Julie, you mentioned the legacy thing. I

think another interesting thing I was

having this conversation before uh is so

have you ever had a friend you didn't

like their significant other and they

broke up and immediately you're like

thank god you got rid of that person

they're the absolute worst. Do you think

there's any people sitting in the uh in

Chipotle management that like the second

Brian was out the door maybe not

publicly maybe behind the back talking a

little trash and now they're like wait

he's coming back like

>> I think this is going to be a nightmare.

I'm pretty sure his reputation there was

pretty good.

>> I'm sure, but you never know. You

>> know, I I don't know. I you know, who

knows?

>> You know, people have, you know, once

somebody's out the door. Oh, I would

have done it way differently than that

guy. Um, not that I mean, he has a great

obviously reputation for for ways to do

Chipotle. Um, I guess do we think it's

tough, right? I know we're not M&A

bankers here, but ultimately, does

anyone want to put odds on the reality

of this happening? You know, I I trust

in FT's reporting and and stuff like

this and semaphore, but just curious if

this is the type of thing that it gets

floated and then it doesn't eventually

land.

>> Yeah, I would say low probability of

actually happening.

>> Yeah,

>> I think I think investor interest would

be real low from both sides of this

deal.

>> I mean, Starbucks shares are selling off

on this, so clearly we're already seeing

that vote. I mean, and I'm with you. If

you look at the history of consumer

conglomerates,

>> brands and stuff,

>> I mean, Pepsi obviously a different type

of business, but you know, melding

things together, unless there are really

clear synergies or strategic reasons to

do so. Chipotle is also a lot smaller

than Starbucks, like in terms of the

number, it's something like 20,000 plus

Starbucks and I think under 5,000

Chipotle, even though it feels like

they're everywhere, they're not

everywhere. Um, and so I just I just

don't know like what is it for? What do

you

>> who is this good for other than the CEO,

>> right? The ingredient, you know, if you

think about supply chain, the there's

not a lot of overlap in ingredients. I

also frankly like and this is something

I've said about I think Starbucks

quality is meh at best. And like I

remember when they bought um Labul or

whatever it was called when they brought

in the new food and they made that

acquisition, they were like the food's

going to be so good. And I'm like uh no

it is not.

>> And I actually think Chipotle is pretty

good in terms of the quality of the food

for a f, you know, for a chain. Yes.

>> Yeah.

>> And so like if it mean I don't know. I

just

>> What's your call? Are you a Duncan? Are

you a Waw Wa? Are you a Tim Hortons? I

know we don't get a lot of Tim Hortons.

>> Lately I've been making it at home.

>> Oh. Do you have a fancy setup?

>> Um I usually do um French press and

grind the beans and then make the French

>> or or I make it in the machine here.

It's like one or the other. It's just

the m the the office machine coffee or

the fancy coffee at home.

>> Jed, I know we're speaking a different

language for you right now. I don't know

what any of this means.

>> Yeah. Jez, are you a Starbucks or a

Duncan or where do you have a specific

preference or you kind of like whatever

is closest?

>> Um, I prefer a really good local coffee

shop to be honest. I like that. I do.

Um, also there is no event contract

officially. I was trying to see if we

could get at least

for CMG and and Starbucks there, but the

only connection that I could find is the

CEO and perhaps he just wants a

multibrand conglomerate. And we forgot.

I love breakfast burritos.

>> That is okay. We have

>> I don't I have a low degree of

confidence that it would be well

executed.

>> Oh, I I agree with that completely. I

think this is someone um

>> wanting to have a big conglomerate just

to have a big conglomerate is not a good

idea. We need we need the financials.

>> We need more fundamental reasons than

just uh it looks really cool if we have

these all. All right.

My dreams of a cold brew burrito combo

seem to be dashed. Um,

>> you just have to make multiple stops.

>> Yeah, you just have to make multiple

stops, which I know there's a bunch of

apps out there and I'll just use my muse

instinct to just, you know, ask, so

it'll be fine. There you go.

>> Um, so again, to get back to, you know,

beyond the consumer stuff, we're, you

know, more and more it feels like every

day another analyst or someone's coming

out saying, "Oh, this indicator is

showing that we're a lot closer to a

crash than we And I know this has been

the kind of the topic dour for a while

now. Um we talked about this yesterday

Julie about how we feel like there will

be a come down. Um when it will come and

to what degree it will be I think is the

question. But J Jess I want to bring you

in. Do you you know the bubble talk and

all this? How much do you buy into it?

How bullish or bearish are you feeling?

What's what's your sentiment right now?

>> Uh feeling pretty bullish. I don't think

there's a bubble. I don't think

anything's going to pop. I don't think

anything's going to crash. I think we're

um we're building new infrastructure for

a new, you know, type of computing and

uh we're in the middle innings.

>> Um interesting.

>> And so I think there's a long way to go.

I think Nvidia is going to grow their

revenue a lot next year and the year

after that. And I think that the big

tech companies are making um high return

investments in these data centers and

they're going to keep going.

>> Okay.

>> So um we uh we think the outlook for the

stock market is really good. So no the

circular financing the trying to find

product the the revenue none of that

gives you sweat makes your palm sweaty.

>> We uh the circular financing is worth

paying a lot of attention to. I think

Nvidia has made um guarantees and um you

know like backup facilities and stuff

like that to about $600 billion worth of

of um of loans and that's a heck of a

lot but their their EBITDA is over 200

billion now and growing. So I think in

the scope of their balance sheet and

with a $6 trillion market cap um 500

billion is actually manageable and thus

far actually Nvidia's made a lot of

really good investments. If you look at

coreweave, if you look at um a lot of

their model maker investments in private

companies, they've actually invested

really well. So we think um uh

management of Nvidia and also the big

tech companies deserve the benefit of

the doubt and are doing very well thus

far.

>> Yeah, Jess.

>> Yeah, I I completely agree. I think the

market is in a healthy spot. I do think

it's been rather narrow just as of late,

but I think that what's happening

underneath the surface is actually

looking better from a technical

perspective and that gives me more

positivity.

>> What do you mean what's been looking

better

>> as as in every other sector aside just

from technology? I think we focus on

that because it has been holding up the

market. But there they they were coming

down breaking all my technical levels

and now I'm seeing areas of support

which means that I

>> in the other groups

>> in the other groups. So I want to see

broadening now more specifically from

that's a technical perspective solely.

Now what my biggest risk is that I've

I've flagged within the market right now

is what's happening with yields.

>> If we can get a ceiling on the 10-year

that would be really great for the

equity market and that has a lot to do

with oil as well. So once we

>> get some stabilization I think that's

all that the bulls need. We just need

some stabilization within yields. It's

not necessarily them coming down just

being stable. Well, we see right here

it's, you know,

>> yeah,

>> you know, okay,

>> that's Yeah, but one day doesn't make

stability.

>> Yeah, I know.

>> Little wins, Julie. We're looking for

little wins, you know, here and there.

But, okay. So, yeah. And I and I think

to the to both of your points, right?

Even if ultimately there will be a drop,

like you can still be right but be wrong

because if you're screaming like you got

to get out, hold cash or whatever, and

the market keeps rising, even if

eventually drops, you're missing out on

obviously all those gains, you know. So,

I Yeah, I I told Julie, what do you what

do you think? Are you as optimistic as

these two? Well, we you know I'm not

because we talked about it yesterday.

No, I mean listen, do I think that

things are going to crack tomorrow or

even next year? Not necessarily. Do I

think like to Jed's point, are there

things to pay a lot of attention to?

Absolutely. And do I think everyone's

going to be a winner? Like for example,

do I see a scenario where um the Nvidias

of the world could still do great, but

open AI and Anthropic that their busts,

that their IPOs don't go well, that

there's not a lot of demand, that they

get supplanted by some of the openweight

models? I think that's not a zero

chance, right? Is it a 50-50 chance? I

don't I don't know about that. But like

there are definitely um scenarios in

which a not everybody's a winner and b

that there are um some areas of weakness

that could spill over into bigger parts

of the market. Sure.

>> I don't think that's happening

immediately,

>> right? The AI stocks that we like least

or I just outright dislike are the

Neoclouds. I think heavily levered um

super dependent on Nvidia um for supply

and even financing and uh no competitive

advantage. Also massive customer

concentration. So, so yeah, I agree with

you. You've got to um discriminate

within the AI group. It's not

everything's not going to go up and to

the right.

>> Yeah. So, Jess, you mentioned yields,

right? Jed, for you, is there anything

out there that that's the one where it's

like when things start to change in that

specific sector or that stat line or

whatever the technical figure might be,

then that's where you're like, okay, now

we're now I'm keeping a keener eye.

>> Yeah. The main leading indicators we

focus on is uh number one GPU pricing

where we see, you know, pretty pretty

strong results. Typically, you would

expect to see like a steady gradual

decline in GPU pricing. M um another one

is the pace of model development from

the labs and we see improvement an

actual like acceleration there. A year

and a half ago inv or uh Anthropic was

releasing a new model every six months.

Now it's every three or four months.

It's really amazing.

>> And then um a third leading indicator is

uh is just the the revenue growth for

the big hyperscalers who are doing all

that capex spending. If they continue to

deliver accelerating revenue growth and

profits um by all means they should keep

investing. Mhm.

>> Um the one thing I just want to um point

out when it going back to rates for a

second is that um Reesfor wrote this up

a note from McQuary um on Yahoo Finance

today that pointed out it's not just

about yields getting to a certain level.

It's the pace at which they move, the

velocity, right? Absolutely. And that we

have seen such a big move in a pretty

short period of time in yields. And

historically, if you go back, that's

when you see cracks,

>> right? So, you know, could we see a

sell-off as we continue to get yields

going higher?

>> We could definitely see a sell. Does

that mean like it's a bare market and

everything's cracked? No. But like we

could definitely see another pullback

based on that.

>> We've been experiencing that though.

We've had increased volatility within

the bond market and that's translated

into the volatility that we have within

the equity market.

>> But not not much, not a lot at all

>> because of artificial intelligence. If

we were to strip out those artificial

intelligence stocks, then we would see

>> for sure. But I but there is a

possibility that even with the AI, you

know, cushion, if you will, that you

could still see a little bit of more

alarm than we've been seeing.

>> That's a good term though, AI cushion.

That is a new cushion on the market. I

like that. I guess if we think about and

again play ifs and buts or whatever but

if things do go bad is this something

because of how and just I see your point

about you know things broadening out but

because so much of the risk is so

concrated is this something where when

it turns it will turn very quickly or

will it be a kind of a slow burn as far

as like this is it going basically is it

going to be a pop or is it going to be a

deflation

>> depends on why hopefully it's because we

have some resolution within the straight

of Hormuse and then that will be very

positive for equities yields will tame

and And I mean, we even saw the the the

auctions earlier this week. There was

really good demand there. That made me

feel so much better about the market.

The bid to cover ratio was that was

good.

>> Right. Right.

>> Things I care about. But we've got

another one in 10 minutes. So, we'll see

how that goes.

>> Jed, what about for you? What what's

your prediction on the timeline?

>> I think I think investors fear the

scenario where um the supply of

accelerated computing catches up to

demand. We we haven't we haven't seen

that in the you know the four or five

years that Nvidia has been releasing

these chips. Um it'll happen one day. Um

when that happens that's obviously

really bad news for all the companies in

the data center capex supply chain, the

comfort systems of the world and the

eatens of the world and the Nvidas of

the world. Um

>> I don't though necessarily assume that

that's bad news for like Amazon and

Google. After all, they're the ones

doing all the capex spending. If we get

to the point where they don't need to do

that and they can pull back on capex,

then their free cash flow explodes. Um,

so I think there are scenarios where

Nvidia and the data center capex group

struggle, but many of the big weights in

the SP500 in broader tech land, Meta,

Google, you know, etc. actually do well.

So I don't I don't really fear this like

wipeout scenario that I think like gets

kind of talked about and assumed quite a

bit.

>> Okay. there. I mean I think you could

spin up a scenario like maybe I just

have bias because I covered the

financial crisis right but like you

could see a scenario where you know you

had the recent report that Oracle was

talking about declaring force majour one

of its projects where it wouldn't have

to pay on the same timeline if you had a

more severe and it's still paying it's

just asking to pay on a more delayed in

a more delayed way but you could

envision a scenario particularly if

you're talking about the neoclouds where

there's delay delayed payments or

there's even suspended payments. We know

that there is a lot of exposure to that

debt and to those financing instruments,

right? Um because of all of the

offbalance sheet financing and how

sophisticated it has been. So you could

see a situation where there is some

degree of spillover into the financial

system. It's it's not out of the

question, right? Not again, I'm not

saying it's gonna happen, but like these

are the things that it's, you know, I

think we have to talk about this stuff.

Jess is just as skeptical.

>> Sure. Well, I it makes me think about

bank earnings, which we have next week,

>> right?

>> Um, and I will be listening for any

signs of credit stress. Are they

increasing loan provisions and what's

happening there? I think that will give

us more of an

>> insight into the consumer, but that

might give us a little more insight into

this as well. I know they're more

sophisticated with their debt structure,

but that's something that I think could

at least give us an idea.

>> Yeah. And it's not just, you know, the

banks of the world. It's the Apollo's

parent company of Yahoo. Um, my little

disclaimer. Um, you know, it's the

Apollo of the world. It's the Aries of

the world. It's the banks of the world.

Yeah. We have to

>> Julie, is it fair to say that the banks

are better capitalized, a lot better

capitalized than 08 and 07?

>> I think Yeah, I think that's fair to

say. um you know, but they're not the

ones holding all of this either. You

know,

>> they're not carrying the bulk of it. Uh

so where are the safe harbors? If things

do get a little hairy, where do we feel

comfortable then for investors that they

should look to to put their money? Any

any suggestions?

>> It depends on why,

>> right? I know. I know. I'm giving you a

lot of like absolutes.

>> It's just it depends. I mean, I've not

I'm going to go back to the bond market.

So if the earnings yield all of a sudden

comes down, maybe we could look at

something with pricing power,

>> high quality, high dividends might be a

good solution. But then if yields are

increasing, that to me is the biggest

risk within the market that could cause

that selloff. Then that would make

anything the yields more attractive and

that's going to be your safe haven to be

honest.

>> I know. I'm sorry, Jess. I'm g I'm

asking you to finish a painting and I

have not told you at all what the

painting is.

>> We painted it there.

>> We did. We did. You did a great job.

Jed, what about you? What do you What do

you

>> Yeah. Um you you ask a difficult

hypothetical to answer. And so what I

where my mind goes is this is why it's

important to have a diversified,

well-balanced portfolio.

>> Sure.

>> Um because there will be surprises that

pop up over the next year or two. We

have some ideas about where that might

come from, but we don't know for sure,

right? So it's important to have that

balance um so that way your portfolio

can survive a gut punch.

>> Sure. So one thing and Julie you

mentioned it this anthropic IPO right so

June 1st it it confidentially files

supposed to come rumors were September

October now we're hearing they want to

get it out before Thanksgiving uh is

that a massive bell weather for this

whole AI trade really working meaning

the IPO goes well then okay we're all

systems go the IPO doesn't or is this

just one piece of the puzzle I will just

say my I think it's I think it's the key

I think if things go badly there I think

there's a knockon effect just because a

lot of people are invested in it because

it's a signal if this is one of the top

players and they can't figure out how to

go to the public market and investors

aren't interested in them then we're

really in trouble. Maybe I'm

overindexing on the importance of that.

Um I don't know you you guys tell me

where do you fall on on the importance

of the anthropic IPO. I mean, if you saw

what I mean, SpaceX wasn't the end- all

beall,

>> but SpaceX is much more nuanced, right?

That's a that's a space company. That's

a a social media company. That's a lot

of different things. Anthropic is it's

it's AI. That's I mean, when you think

of the AI trade, you think of Nvidia,

Open AI, and you think of anthropic in

my mind, at least, maybe I'm simplifying

it. So, that's why I think boomer there,

that really tells a bigger story.

>> Yeah, I mean, I get where you're coming

from.

Something that pops into my head though

is the Google IPO went really bad, you

know, a long time ago and then a year

later Google stock has doubled or

tripled.

>> Facebook IPO also was a disaster.

>> So, so I get I get where you're coming

from and that resonates with me what you

said. I I I think you're right.

Anthropic is a bellweather. Um I mean I

think Anthropic's valuation has been

doubling every like three or four

months. So, um I what what's in my head

is um

>> they're going to release a pretty cool

model or two that they've got locked

away right before that IPO.

>> They're going to promote like ever here

over the next month just like SpaceX did

and it's going to be all that we talk

about for a couple weeks.

>> And um and then they're going to do this

IPO and I think it'll probably be

successful. I think demand will probably

be really high and and then I think

Anthropic and Nvidia are going to be in

a race to see who can get to 10 trillion

first.

Yeah,

>> I think I think the financials of

Anthropic are going to be really

interesting. We've already gotten some

leaked financials, but most of it was

from 2025. We haven't gotten so much

this year. Right. Right. We already got

the leaked like risk factors page, which

is like ending all humanity as a risk

factor, right? But um you know, but I

think that's going to be illuminating

>> just to know exactly how much they are

spending and how much they are losing um

as a result of of their buildout. I

think it'll do one thing for the market.

Just like when um we had the most recent

election results,

>> a couple years ago, the market doesn't

like uncertainty. So, this will give us

some type of certainty. So, any

certainty that we can bring to the

market outcome, good or bad, however you

feel about it, is tends to be really

good for equities.

>> That's a great point because there have

been so much unknown out there. Now, we

have kind of a definitive data point.

I'm curious. We I think you know the S1

drop is going to be like must readad,

you know, must readad uh uh thing. What

jumps out to you? Like the S1 drops,

what's the first thing you're going to

look at? First thing you're going to

search, you know, command F, where are

you going?

>> ARR, they won't disclose that. I don't

think, you know, SpaceX didn't really

disclose that. It's the way SpaceX works

was they they disclosed a bunch of the

boiler plate and a bunch of the like

kind of gap audited financials and then

they did the road show and a bunch of

additional kind of like non-GAAP metrics

came out of that

>> and so I guess my assumption is similar

will happen with anthropic.

>> Um but we'll see. Yeah, the the S1 is I

I agree with you. I'm I'm looking

forward to it but uh I feel like it's

going to be a little antilimactic and

then the road show might be better.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Very interesting.

>> I'll give one data point. We had a it's

San Francisco Tech Week right now.

Business Insider had an event out there

and um we we had one of our reporters

had a conversation with an anthropic

investor and then afterwards he asked

the crowd would you invest in Anthropic

at a $3 trillion valuation which is a

little bit of a leading question I

understand because they're talking about

going to market at two but in the entire

crowd three people raised their hand and

then he dropped it down and cut in half.

He said what about 1.5 trillion and a

couple more people. Granted this is not

a scientific experiment. I understand

that doesn't show real market sentiment,

but I think that's what gives me a

little bit of pause is that, you know, I

think what was SpaceX was 1.77 trillion,

very mature Starlink business, Anthropic

looking to go to. It's big. I I guess

the last question.

>> Well, listen. Sure.

>> Just to interrupt you a little bit, the

difference between Star between um

SpaceX and and Anthropic. Um Daario,

Elon,

>> Sure.

>> And in terms of who's the better

salesman,

>> Sure. for retail investors in

particular, but I think for investors

more general. I mean,

>> well, I mean,

>> Dario's one more weekend update away

from being an SNL.

>> I mean, like whatever whatever else you

you can like say whatever you know about

Elon being great a great technologist

blah blah blah. He is a very good

marketer. I mean, that's

the cloud users though, they are very

dedicated.

>> I'm a cloud user. Listen, I'm a fan.

Does that mean I'm buying I'm investing

in it? That's another question.

It's just it's interesting the salesman

part because I think that's really

shifted within markets now and I I spend

a lot of time in the creator economy and

I've been going to a lot of events just

understanding the creator economy and it

it's so interesting to me

>> and are those people interested in

investing in anthropic?

>> Well, that's where the marketing

happens. So that's where taking away the

salesman and what it is. So, and I I say

this so many times, but going back to

the initial release of these models when

we had Bard come out from Google, it

just completely flopped. Even though but

>> but that was a PR issue and that's it's

just so important to have good marketing

around these. So, I think paying

attention to that is also going to be a

very important inflection point. And a

lot of that happens on social media.

It's so interesting have virality, how

it takes the world by storm. If a lot of

consumers are buying into it and that

translates into revenue, arguably you

could draw some parallels into the

psychological aspects of the stock

market and what happens with social

media.

>> I totally agree and I think a great

example too is what happened with Meta,

right? You have Muse, oh this fluffy

little thing. This is such a cute mascot

and you have Alexander Wang, this like

prototypical stereotypical Jenzer. He

comes out with Crocs and he's got the

Australian mullet and it's like this is

cool. we can get behind this like let's

forget about all the other you know

meta's history with privacy and whatever

and and so I totally agree that like

marketing is a huge aspect of it I guess

to that point with the last thing and we

can kind of move on when it comes to the

this two- horse race between open AI and

anthropic do you think the fact that

anthropic will be first to market will

that ultimately benefit them because

they're going to be the first mover

advantage or will they have to kind of

like plow the trail that then open AAI

can kind of follow in their tracks and

understand what mistakes were made I I'm

giving you a lot of hypotheticals I know

this is tough. I'm sorry, Jess.

>> I mean, my thought process is is

thinking about what Apple's done.

>> Okay.

>> Apple's waited for everyone,

>> right?

>> That's done really well for them.

>> Sure. It helps they have the best

distribution model in the world in the

iPhone.

>> That's true. They have a big ecosystem

and and really great free cash flow. But

um but they had that because they

waited,

>> right?

>> They had a good story before that, but

nonetheless, so I think any more

information as you're going to market

could certainly help you. It's different

if you're going to market as in from a

consumer perspective, but if you're

going to market from the public markets,

any more information, I think, is

helpful.

>> Jed, what about you? Anything on like

better to be first or better to be

second and get it right.

>> Um, Jess, you mentioned earlier like the

the competition for capital that's

pushed up yields in the bond market. Um,

there's only so much equity capital um

out there. We don't know what that limit

is. Um SpaceX did an $80 billion equity

issuance. I think you know what what was

a week or two before Google issued 80

billion dollars of equity as well. So

that's 160 that's a lot of billions.

>> Um Anthropics is going to be somewhere

between 50 and 100 billion as well. So

man we're these are huge amounts of

money. How much is left over?

>> Sure.

>> And um and have the people willing to

pay the most um you know bought

something already. So yeah I think you'd

rather be first. I think Elon you know

Elon in so many ways is so smart. He

rushed his IPO out there, got out first.

Um, it wouldn't surprise me if that ends

up being a good strategy and and you'd

rather be second than third,

>> right?

>> Okay. So, we're going to try something

new now. We, you know, us here, we have

a little voice of God, but the voice of

God is gracing us with our presence.

Avana, our producer, is here and we're

in the next segment. We're going to

we're going to talk about some of these

very fun consumer profiles that Amazon

is building all of us. So, Avana, why

don't you take it from there?

>> Okay. Well, um, so this is based on the

recent Amazon story talking about the

about you profile and it kind of like

reading through a little bit on your

like spending habits. And so our team as

we were discussing it this morning, we

were therefore wondering the question of

if you would have an AI dossier, what

would it reveal about your spending

habits? And personally, I fear that it

would tell me that I spend too much on

going to concerts. I'm not going to lie.

There's no such.

>> Probably a little high. Um,

>> what's the last concert you went to?

>> That is a really good Oh, uh, role model

um, back in September, Radio City.

Really, really good time. Good

performance there. A lot of movement on

stage. I'm not going to divulge a little

bit more on that, but yeah. Uh, it was a

good time. Um, and also merchandise

surprisingly. That's that's my

>> like concert merch.

>> No, no, online sales. Okay. I did not

realize that to be honest. I thought,

you know, it's a little bit of a divide,

you know, experience economy and like

goods economy. I'm in both. I'm in both

fronts. I'm I'm steering the ship on

both ends.

>> So, we were wondering if you guys if you

had an AI dossier, like what would it

reveal about your spending habits?

>> Mine

>> good thing, bad thing?

>> Yeah. Well, I I think so. 5 years ago,

I'd be embarrassed by how much takeout I

have ordered. It'd be like, "Bro, you

need to learn how to cook here. Like,

settle down." Um, the one thing I got a

kick out of my Amazon about me was

because I've I we got a new home. It's

an old home, so trying to do some work

around the house. And it's like, oh,

must work in construction or manual

labor. It's like that's me punching in

the clock at the newsletter factory. Um,

so that's the the one thing I get. But

yeah, probably my take takeout pullback

has been good. So I I'd be proud of

that. But yeah, I don't know. What about

you guys? Anything stand out for?

>> Just spend too much is probably the

standout. I mean, I have two teens, so I

spend a lot on groceries and like

>> all the other things

>> that they do. Like, I'm going to a rock

climbing competition in a couple weeks,

so that's going to spend money

>> to travel to the thing to pay for the

fee, entrance fees, all of that. So,

that's definitely

Yeah,

>> that is exactly where my mind went. I

have I have a 15-year-old son, so

there's a bunch of 15year-olds and

16-year-olds at my house all the time.

They eat so much.

instead of constantly buying food or

giving them something to go somewhere

and that that's where all my money goes.

>> Way too much Iowa Hawkeye clothing for

me. Mostly for nephews and nieces and

>> not to be confused with the Atlanta

Hawks.

>> Don't you dare.

>> Sorry.

>> Don't you dare confuse the Atlanta Hawks

for Caitlyn Clark. That would be a

terrible thing. That was

>> Well, it's been it's been done recently,

but we won't get into that.

>> That is one of the best clips of the

year, wasn't it? That was a Missouri

senator, I believe, from my my home

state. Um

>> should know better. I think he lives

like 10 minutes away from me, too. He's

Yeah. kind of funny. Um, anyways, I have

a question for you guys. Are you buying

fresh um produce or meats from Amazon

now that they're offering it? Are they

offering it in your guys'

>> Yes, I have, but I don't do it

regularly. Okay.

>> Cuz I'm a um I'm a farmers market girly,

so I probably spend a lot on that.

Although the the gap between what you

spend at the farmers market and what you

spend at the store has has shrunk. And

I'm a Trader Joe's,

>> okay,

>> person also, but I do buy some. I have

done it on Amazon.

>> I'm desperately looking for convenience

in my life. And so we we're doing more

and more fruits and veggies from from

Amazon.

>> I'm a big And my wife gets very upset

with me. I'm a big Costco guy. Um we

don't have a massive home. I don't have

a second fridge. I don't have a big

pantry. So it's literally like the I

went last weekend and I called on my

way. I'm like, I'm going to go to

Costco. I said, I promise it won't be

that bad. I'll behave. But I always,

why'd you get so much chicken in the

freezer? Why'd you do this? We don't

have enough. But I'm a big I'm a big

Costco person. That's that's my um

that's that's that's my sweet spot. They

have a great

>> I think I should be a Costco person and

I'm still I'm not.

>> He he loads up on increased inventory.

>> Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So there you go.

Ivon, do we have any other questions for

for the group or Okay. Yeah. I mean,

when it comes to um I guess how do you

feel about cuz I think we all understand

that these tech companies are collecting

a ton of data on this. That's always

been the case. The Amazon, you know,

trend was interesting because you kind

of see it in blatant terms. Um but I

wonder now with Muse or Instinct like

people are opening up their you know

data castles to these companies. Um like

let me start there. Are any of you AI

agent users?

Okay. All right. Which ones?

>> Muse.

>> Muse.

>> I have so many with Rod.

>> Are there do you have moes where you're

like that's something that I won't share

or is it like anything goes as far as

data?

>> Um I have specific things but I I have

um a whole team where we have specific

AI agents for specific things and then

we have a Slack channel for our AI

agents.

>> This is for work.

>> I can go nut.

>> I mix personal and work. I feel like I

don't know if anyone's watching for tax

purposes. This is for work. So,

>> what what are your home AI agent use

cases?

>> Um, at home, I don't think I use them

for I do not use them for anything

specifically as in within my household.

Okay. But because I I juggle so much, so

I obviously talk about the market a lot

and then I've somehow ended up being a

financial influencer, which is complete

accident, but now most of my income, so

I got to keep doing it. And

so I have agents that one keep me up to

date on the market and then it pulls

together multiple different things. I

even I have Claude editing my videos now

which is great. So um there's

>> lots of use cases but it's specific for

me in my ecosystem and what I need. And

to your point earlier the biggest asset

that I would love more of is time. And

so these agents just saved me time by

automatically going through my email,

giving me an update for the day, telling

my agent what he needs to do, and then

keeping me on top of being a mom, a

wife, a content creator, talking about

the markets, and then my other little

software company that is totally for tax

purposes.

>> Jed, you mentioned you use Muse. What

about what's your use case for it?

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, we're we're meta

shareholders, so I'm I wanted to try out

Muse. Um, I have at home like a old

Excel spreadsheet that I tracked our

personal spending on before I even met

my wife. And so I'm like have been

entering like I spent $6 on groceries or

ice cream or whatever. And it's a heck

of a lot to maintain when you have a

wife and three kids. And so I've been

doing a bad job keeping up with this

thing, but I I can't abandon it. I put

like 15 years into this thing. Anyways,

so I connected my checking account and

my credit card to Muse and it now

updates it and puts all the spending in

the right categories. When it has a

question, it asks me. It does it every

morning at 7 a.m. It tells me what it

did. I like it a lot. It is cool. And my

wife yells at me for entrusting Meta

with with our personal account.

>> Yeah. What's the priv privacy concerns

there?

>> Yeah. She she thinks she thinks I'm I'm

nuts. Um

>> and you think And you

>> and I and I and I say to myself, "This

is convenient. This is great.

>> So, it's a price you're willing to pay

to give Amazon your checking account

information and your credit card

information.

>> I feel like our credit card is saved on

a dozen or two dozen websites. Um, I

assume they get hacked every so often.

>> Um, I haven't we haven't um had money

stolen from our our checking or credit

card accounts in the past. Um, I grew up

in Iowa in the middle of nowhere. We

didn't really lock our doors a whole lot

in the house I grew up in. We didn't

lock our car doors when we drove places.

I'm probably way too trusting. Um, and

uh, probably irresponsible, but

nonetheless, I do it anyways.

>> I mean, I would just say Meta has proven

that it's not a great custodian.

>> Fair. Yeah, fair

>> in the past. I mean, you were saying

like, you know, you've got cute cuddly

muse. That's ahead of Aaron Circin

coming out and reminding us all what

what Meta is all about, right?

>> Interesting timing there. Yeah. Right.

Before before that,

>> we're like, we got to get this thing out

before that movie comes out. I mean, I I

I I joke, but you know, maybe please. I

I think you're you're spot on there. I

think this this the idea of like just

talking about where you leverage AI, it

works nicely into something else that I

want to bring up. We the Nestle CEO was

interviewed by a BI reporter and talked

about the most important skills in the

AI era. And I think one thing that

really stood out to me was the fact that

he said it's not so much about learning

like a specific tool. It's more so being

willing to adopt the trend and kind of

continue to evolve with it. So it's not

like, you know, because you it's this

tech evolves so fast by the time you

learn something and fully implement it,

it could already be too late. It's more

so being agile. But how do you all, you

know, so Jess, maybe we start with you

when you think about new tech,

especially AI, like how do you adopt

the, you know, the appropriate skills or

decide like this is something I want to

implement into my workflow?

>> Well, one, it's documentation of what

you do in order to optimize and have

efficiency. anything that you feel can

be automated, you need to document that

and understand that. So something that I

little busy work

>> the best way to utilize AI is just to

ask AI. So for example that literally AI

editing my videos is a new thing that it

I've started two days ago. I'm so happy

with the latest anthropic update. Um

>> but it was not explicitly said that it

could do that.

>> So I asked Claude, "Hey, can you do

this? I've done it with Codeex. Codex

does an okay job, but I want I I wanted

um Claude to do it. Claude had me run

some test scenarios. I already have

documentation and processes of what I

like and what I do. So, I showed it what

I did. I gave it examples of what I've

done and and past things. And then I had

it write a skill and we refined it

together. So, the best way is one, you

just have to have a keen understanding

of your

>> workflow, right? If you have that, then

you automate anything that is taking too

much time.

>> Sure.

>> And just ask AI to do that. But in an

enterprise perspective, that's where

consulting I think would be great and

why I like something like IBM.

>> Interesting. So Jed, you had the the

spreadsheet. Perfect example of

something that you could take off your

plate. What about on a professional

side? Anything there? How do you think

through it?

>> Yeah, a using AI for summarization and

and time savings is a is a great one for

me. I mean, I spend a lot of time

reading 15 and 20 page earnings

transcripts. Um, asking it to break that

down into 500 words is a really super

useful thing for for me and our team.

>> Um, also like AI in new idea research is

really helpful. You know, instead of

spending instead of sending one of our

analysts to go spend three days looking

into this company and all of its

competitors, we can have AI get 80% of

the way there in about 15 minutes and

then ask the analyst to go do the the

remaining 20%. So, it's a real it's a

really big efficiency tool for knowledge

work.

>> Juliana, I feel like with us it's like

it's like almost a taboo word sometimes.

>> Listen, I mean, yeah, I basically use it

for the same thing that Jed uses if

we're, you know, I ask it to summarize

things. Here's the thing about AI. No

matter how good it is, it cannot put the

information in my brain.

>> Sure.

>> So, we're sitting here talking about all

of this stuff. AI can't do that for me.

I eventually humans still have to learn

the information. I still like what

frustrates me is when I hear I'm going

off on a little tangent here, but like

when people talk about school and they

say, "Oh, you don't like when Jensen

says, "Oh, you don't have to learn basic

math anymore or you don't have to like

>> you need those things,

>> the foundations.

>> You need the foundations because it

teaches you how to think."

>> I agree with that so much.

>> And you need that background. You need

the historical context. You need like I

was an English major. I wouldn't trade

that for anything. I love to read books

and like that is valuable information in

my brain that then helps with all of the

other things that I do in tangible and

intangible ways. So anyway, that's just

a defense of not but but I here's I find

it helpful but not revolutionary.

>> Sure.

>> Thus far in my work.

>> Okay.

>> I mean I I think it can help you think

so very much.

>> I agree with that but again helpful but

not re in my experience so far.

>> Expertise oversight I think is extremely

important with AI. It does not replace

an expert whatsoever. Especially when it

first came out, I was drilling it with

options questions and it kept getting

them incredibly wrong and it doesn't

anymore. But but what's interesting is

if you have and I'm afraid I'm training

these models sometimes, but with the the

expertise oversight is I've learned if

you build some skills on just offloading

your brain, then that's when you can

really start optimizing artificial

intelligence. So, I've I've it took me

about I want to say two to three weeks

just to build my technical analysis

skill on how I look at the markets that

way and then the specific data sources

and how to pull the FRED APIs into a

spreadsheet and look at that and then

how I would look at the consumer. But

>> here's here's the other thing. Here's

here's the other thing with all of this

and like all of this thing about the

death of software software even with

vibe coding and all this stuff. I was

trying to vibe code something today like

what a drag it is.

>> I'm not a coder. Like I don't even if

I'm vibe coding. It's not though. It's

really not. Like I would I still want

somebody to give me a piece of software

to do all this stuff. Okay. I don't know

like that's good for

>> software companies Julie is your your

your lazy but like but like the people

in Silicon Valley whose job it is to

code they are the ones who see this as

most revolutionary because they are

native to that and it is most

revolutionary for what they specifically

do for what we do like I'm I don't know

I

>> I just get so nervous this idea of like

AI atrophy the idea of like okay I'm

going to outsource a little bit here and

I'm going to outsource a little bit here

and then it becomes the AI creep and it

does more and more and look the less you

do that like

>> I can barely write in cursive. I have

one vendor, one person that I need to

write a check to and it's like a I mean

it's ter if

>> you don't have to write the check in

cursive by the way.

>> You have to sign you have to sign your

name.

>> You can it doesn't even matter anymore.

Just put a line in there.

>> I know. Well, any fraudsters out there,

you you can have that in my bank

account. Um but it's that's where I

really get nervous and I think um you

know and and Jess maybe I'm interested

to hear with you. Where do you find the

most? Because for me, it's like, okay, I

might get some short-term gains here,

but if ultimately I'm losing those

skills or ultimately we're automating it

too much. Like the long term is I'm just

going to, you know, automate myself out

of a job. Now, I know you're in a little

bit of a different situation, but do you

ever get worried about like losing some

of those things you're automating?

Again, video editing, maybe that was

never your passion to begin with, so

it's like I'm happy to get it off my

plate.

>> I It's the tedious work. I am happy to

offload all of the tedious work.

Absolutely. But I mean, I did with my I

I have automated a lot of my job. I

built a quantua model completely for

stockbrokers.com that analyzes all the

brokerage firms and that is um not AI

powered but it would not have been able

to be done without artificial

intelligence because of the really deep

data that's there. So I I did have it

actually replace me right

>> but it increased productivity as well.

So I think what we're learning from this

conversation is it's different use cases

and it really depends on the person and

what you utilize it for

>> and the role

>> and yeah and the role that you're in. I

completely agree. So

>> I think in the next phase of I'm

bringing it back to the stock market.

>> Yeah, please.

>> Is we picks and shovels. I think we're

we're kind of on the the tail end of

that as soon as we see the the supply

demand from the GPU CPUs. Then I need to

see an increase in productivity from

that capex spend.

>> And that's what I think we need to look

for. But it's you can hear it

anecdotally by I I did it. It's

something that you used to do. You said

that took you three weeks, takes you 15

minutes, that's that's increased

productivity, difficult to measure, but

we could see once we start seeing that

more hearing it with earnings

transcripts. So, putting earnings

transcripts into AI, seeing how many

times they say the word tariff, you

know, that's that's some good use cases.

Um, I still find it revolutionary. I

think I'm trying to convince you, Julie.

>> When it comes to the productivity,

>> maybe I'm just too hard to impress.

Maybe I'm too cynical. It's not a bad

thing. When it comes to the productivity

gains, is the benefit for the company

ultimately we're more productive so we

can do more business or we're more

productive so we need less people?

>> Both. You can do more with less but

right now we've had a supply change in

the workforce. So

>> right

>> helpful timing.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah, I think it depends on the

company and I think you know um in the

case of if you're in an industry that's

growing rapidly and you're constrained

by the amount of R&D folks you can hire

or whatever then then yeah productivity

savings lead to more growth perhaps in

an industry that's not growing um like a

lot of financial services for example I

think AI is probably going to mean fewer

back office employees at insurance

companies and banks

>> sure well so to that point oh sorry go

Julie go

>> I was just going to bring it back around

to something you asked earlier which is

like how do you where's the safety or

how do you hedge? And I think like I

don't know it was I think it was a

couple months ago Mike Wilson over at

Morgan Stanley said now is the time to

look to companies to like yes you should

obviously you should still be invested

in the picks and shovels and all of that

but

>> you should start to look for the

companies that are going to benefit from

all of this right not the hyperscalers

not the tech but like and an example I

always come back to is United Healthcare

the last time it reported it did better

than expected because it had saved money

and been more efficient with its

customer service because of AI. So this

earning season, I'm going to be looking

for more of those examples. What are the

companies like, forget about tech for a

minute. What are the non- tech companies

that are leveraging AI to make their

business better? And maybe it's a little

bit early, but that's going to be the

next thing eventually.

>> So this is Can I give you So yesterday

we were disagreeing about robots. Now

I'm going to disagree on the United

Healthcare. Okay.

>> So this is my bare take on United

Healthcare. So Muse, right? Instinct,

all of these. I have two young kids.

Every couple days, some bill. Oh, we

went to the pediatrician. I kind of look

at my wife. Did we do this? I think so.

Sure. Okay. Send it. You know, write the

check with my my bad handwriting. Um,

we've heard examples now of these AI

agents going out and basically fighting

for you. I think that's a massive risk,

right? We've already heard about the the

hidden subscriptions, right? Which I'm

well aware of working in the media

business and the subscription model,

like you know, ending subscriptions. I

think the health care companies that can

be known to kind of insurance companies

send out bills or whatever and yeah yeah

just pay this. I think there's a massive

risk there that what was normally just a

okay yeah I have to do it people just

think oh I have healthcare bills I have

to do it now sending off their agents to

go and and fight that fight.

>> Well there's already been a Blue Cross

and Blue Shield just came out with that

study that said that hospitals are now

upcoding right so there's a diagnosis

code that goes with everything that you

get done by a healthcare provider. Now

they're putting on a secondary diagnosis

that says so they're then increasing

their billing to the insurance company

and ultimately probably to us. So

they're getting in other words they

might get squeezed from both sides.

>> Yeah. I don't know. Jess, where do you

come out on that? Do you view that as a

risk or not as much?

>> Yeah, I think that is a risk. Um first

thing that pops into my head when you

talk about the subscriptions and

negotiating is um the cable company, you

know, like I'm a charter cable

subscriber and

>> you know you haven't cut the cord yet.

Uh, I do have Hulu Live for cable, but I

get internet through Charter still.

Okay. And, uh, I recently called them

and had to spend a half an hour on the

phone and they cut my monthly bill from

120 a month to 70 and I was really happy

about that.

>> Um, but I spent a half an hour doing it

and I would have rather much rather sent

Muse to go talk to them and see if they

can do even better and I didn't have to

push that hard. So, they probably would

have done better. So,

>> yeah, I I think that I think that will

happen. Um, we have a a hospital

investment, um, HCA, a publicly traded

company, and I found it funny,

>> the health insurance companies say that

the hospitals are further along in in

adapting AI for their negotiations. Um,

and then you go talk to the hospital

companies and they say, "Oh, no, no, the

health insurers are way further along in

adopting AI. Like, we we're really

struggling to negotiate against them.

It's getting harder." So, I don't know.

I don't know where the truth lies in

that. They're both, I think, adopting AI

rapidly. Um, and I think that they're

kind of trying to do that under the

radar because I think that there is this

consumer concern about where this is

heading and how it's going to affect my

pocketbook.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Jess, I don't know. I we got

about a minute left here. I don't know

if you have a thoughts on these, you

know, agents fighting for us or

>> Oh, I think healthcare is one of the

best sectors that are primed for

disruption from artificial intelligence,

from a lot of different factors. It's

from pharmaceuticals. It's from finding

cures for diseases. It's from the

customer service and the operational

efficiencies within the hospitals. It's

for the relationships that you have with

doctors. And even I spend a lot of time

talking to my primary care about things

like this in our checkups where there

was been a big push where all of our

medical data has is all electronic and

then a lot of my family's in the medical

field. So you can see a prescription

that was made here that was made there

where you had people who were abusing

the system trying to you know get other

things. So there is operational

efficiency already where they push to

data and then I'm thinking about what's

needed for artificial intelligence is

step number one is good data. Healthcare

has already done that

>> always data is always the source. Well I

think on that we can leave it there.

Thanks so much all of us for joining us.

This was great and uh until tomorrow

we'll see you then.

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