Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

>> The Joe Rogan Experience.

>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY

NIGHT. All day.

>> We're rolling. What's up, John Cena in

the [ __ ] house on? Yeah.

>> Yeah. Let's put these on. Pretend we're

professional. What's up? Good to see

you, man.

>> Thanks so much for having me. Appreciate

my pleasure being here.

>> And there's no way I'm having a pro

wrestler on without Tony Hinchcliffe.

possible. He's the expert. He knows more

about pro wrestling than I know about

UFC.

>> Yeah, sometimes I translate little

things here and there.

>> That's cool. It's all right.

>> Yeah, he has to. He has to. And he's a

giant fan of yours, too. You know, a

giant fan of yours is Brian Simpson.

Brian Simpson was going on last night

about how intelligent you are. It was

really interesting, you know.

>> Sure was me.

>> Yeah, man.

>> Well, you do speak [ __ ] Mandarin,

which is kind of crazy.

>> Uh, yeah. Yeah.

>> How long did it take you to learn that?

Uh man, I I was I was doing that for

quite a long time. I've since kind of um

kind of declined on the studies. Uh I a

wonderful takeaway from the study of

Mandarin. Um just because you know a

language doesn't mean you know the

culture.

>> Ah

>> so that was a fantastic experience with

I but I I studied Mandarin for like a

decade and I would say like um not even

conversationally fluent. It was a really

tough hill to climb for me. But it seems

like a really big hill.

>> Just it's it's just different. You know,

you get used to the language and the

structure.

>> You read it, you know, the reading.

>> No, I didn't even bother to read and uh

like reading all the characters,

understanding everything. Yeah.

>> How long did it take you to learn?

>> Around 10 years.

>> Whoa.

>> Yeah. And then like I mean I I would

dream in Mandarin and like have

conversations and kick down and that. So

it became like a like a a second

language. But you know I I lived in

China for a little bit. I filmed a movie

with Jackie Chan. So I was there for

like six or seven months. I lived there

in um man we were in Inner Mongolia,

Yinchuan Province. So like like in

China.

>> Wow.

>> And uh it was fun. Yeah. Yeah.

>> You were in Mongolia.

>> Inner Inner Mongolia. Yeah.

>> What's the difference?

>> Uh I don't know cuz I've never I've

never been in Mongolia, but Inner

Mongolia was uh man I was I was the only

person that looked like me there. Uh and

everyone would say look it's it's big

white guy Hyundai Byron. and that would

call me.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah.

>> Wow. So, what motivated you to learn

that? It seems like such a task.

>> Honestly, man, it was everything in my

life seems to be wrestling related. It

was wrestling related. Like WWE's um

reach spread everywhere. I mean, I' I've

been able to lucky enough to perform

everywhere from like Moscow,

Philippines, South Africa, Bangor,

Maine, you every place in between except

China. China was like the one place that

didn't understand what we did. So it

it's literally like it's a it's a

universal language because you can turn

it's like UFC like you turn the volume

down but you can see like oh this is two

guys best guy wins. I get it. Uh ch the

Chinese didn't get it. So I figured if

like one of our superstars spoke the

language maybe that would help break

down the barrier. And we got in

>> your idea.

>> Uh it was my idea but the WWE offers and

I think they still offer it. they they

offer a free second language program. So

like when they rolled out the initiative

of like financial advice and um you know

uh they'll pay for portions of your

secondary education and free second

language. This is like 2011

2012 big talent meeting in like an

auditorium. I'm one of the old guys at

the time sitting in the front being like

these kids don't know how good they have

it. I should stand up and tell them to

like no [ __ ] that. I'm actually going to

lead by example and take a language. So

I signed up right then then and there

for China Chinese because I wanted to

get us into China.

>> Wow.

>> And like I said, it worked, but it kind

of only worked. And they I think I think

actually right now China is experiencing

what wrestling is to them cuz like

there's I've read articles that there's

promotions over there that are thriving.

So like now they get it.

>> Oh, so they have their own promotions.

>> Yeah. Yeah. This is a fairly recent

thing,

>> I think. So, like I just read recent

articles that like pro wrestling is

thriving in China and they have their

own like their own way of doing it.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Wow. That's wild. It's wild how like

expansive the pro wrestling business is

that they would be that o-minded to say

like let's let's give second language

programs to the athletes.

>> Well, and you know, I just it's it's

weird. The origins of the business are

carnival related. it as like a carnival

attraction and then uh it it was like

ruthlessly territorial

>> and then when it became national it was

still trying to find its way. It's it's

almost like you see pro sports doing it.

You know the more a sport succeeds the

more benefits they offer to their

competitors and athletes. So you know

WWE kind of hit that stride. Yeah.

>> It's just such a smart thing to do you

know.

>> Yeah. Well, you give your ch give your

talent the opportunities to to gain

knowledge and and wisdom. And the sad

thing is I don't know how many people

did it or or do it still, you know.

>> Was there anybody other than you that

you know of that

>> two other people?

>> Who?

>> Uh Clauddio Castnoli who speaks I think

four or five languages already and he

just wanted to take like a brush up

course and uh Natty Nightheart.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah,

>> that's it. Everybody else is like

>> not going to do it.

>> Too much work.

>> Yeah. What was the not knowing the

culture aspect of that?

>> So, man, I got I got put in a bit of a

hot spot with um uh I I I I made a a

pack to myself when I was like, "Okay, I

feel fluent." We would do these global

press tours and I just happened to be on

a global press tour and I'm like, "You

know what? I'm going to do 70% of my

media in Mandarin, like in dialogue."

And I got to say, I did it. Like I went

over there, spoke, people were taking

off the translator headphones. Like life

was good, everything was great. And at

the very end of the day, as with all

these press tours, you do like a bunch

of prompter reads. So I'm doing prompter

reads for everywhere. And it's like, um,

hey, go this place and see this movie.

Go this place and see this movie. And

no, my bad. I didn't check the reads

because it's like an end of a 10-hour

day. You do a million of these things.

And one of them said like, "Hey, uh,

Taiwan, see this this and and uh the the

it was all in Mandarin and the opinion

described Taiwan as a country. So be the

first country to see this." Now over

there, they they look through a

different lens like geopolitics are

murky waters, man. And that's what when

I learned of like I just said it, left,

everybody was cool, I did my thing. Like

I I read the prompt. It was like a Ron

Burgundy moment. Like go [ __ ] yourself,

San Diego. was like the most offensive

thing you can say.

>> So I'm like, man, you know, good job,

John. You you said you you did 70% and

people understood what you were talking

about. And then they put that out and

everybody was like, what the [ __ ] did

you just say? We don't that's not how we

do it over here. And again, just cuz

like my takeaway and it was a it it was

a pretty tense moment for me. Like I had

to apologize to China. And in

apologizing to China, I I pissed off my

home country. I'm a patriot. I love the

United States of America and everything

it stands for, but like no one it was

never enough. Nobody was happy.

Everybody was [ __ ] up. And it was it

was it was like murky waters for me

personally. And I it was weird. Like I'm

the I think I might have been the only

guy almost to get cancelceled for doing

his homework,

>> you know, like for trying to like learn

like learn and and try to do something.

But the cool takeaway, you know, we can

learn from every mistake. My mistake was

just because you know the language

doesn't mean you know the culture. Do

they even refer to as Taiwan? I think

they referred to as Chinese Taipei,

right?

>> Man, what was in the I know what I read

in in the thing. So that's again I don't

know enough depth to know

>> that and now like people like oh man can

you can you speak Mandarin for this? I

just won't do it.

>> It's a skill that I have and it's but

it's a skill that's going to remain with

me because it's I don't understand. I

don't have the depth of field to know

what to call that place in that region

of the world and I haven't done enough

research and I don't have the wisdom and

I don't have like the the cultural

fluency, you know.

>> So, it was a cool lesson. It it sucked

>> cuz I thought I was just trying to do

something good, but it was it was a cool

lesson.

>> Was it really that big of a deal,

>> man? I thought like I I I was filming

Peacemaker season 1 and when they came

out with all of this stuff, I went

directly to James Gunn and was like,

"Hey man, if you have to fire me, I I

understand."

>> Wow.

>> And uh

>> it was that serious. But it wasn't even

words that you wrote. Someone the WWE

wrote it.

>> That doesn't No, no, it was it was for

the movie I was promoting,

>> right? So the movie the people that made

the movie wrote it. So I don't know like

when you do these press tours let's say

if I'm doing a movie for Warner Brothers

let's say let's use Peacemaker as an

example I'm doing a global Peacemaker

tour

>> and we go into China or we go into South

America

>> you meet like the PR person there and

they have all the stuff you're supposed

to do and they curate your experience

and they hold your hand you like okay

now we're going to go to this station

then by the way they just want you to do

some shoutouts. So anytime I go anywhere

globally now,

as much as I want to um thank fans for

their attention and you know investing

in the product, I really shy away from

like speaking the language because I

don't understand the cultural nuance.

You know, I just I just want to be like,

yo, thanks for watching what we do and I

love the fact that you're entertained,

>> but I want to speak to you at a level

that I understand that I'm fluent cuz

your boots on the ground here every day

and I might say something that's a nice

gesture but completely [ __ ] offend

you. And that's that's not good. That's

not good for anybody.

>> So, was the teleprompter in English and

you translate to

>> No, everything was in Mandarin. And in

uh in Chinese, they have the characters,

which are virtually impossible for me to

learn. There's like an infinite number,

but they have they also have what's

called pin yin, which is it's kind of

spelled out in English with phonetics.

So, it has the four tones.

>> Okay.

>> So, if you were to put something in

front of me in pinion right now, I could

definitely read it.

>> And I got good at reading pin yin. So I

was like, man, I could I could send all

these messages in manner and then more

people will know about this movie and

more people will know about me and more

people will know about wrestling and

more people be excited. Looked good on

paper. It just my followrough was a bit

weak. You know,

>> it doesn't even seem like that was your

fault,

>> right? It's probably a PR's assistant

assistant that's type that's probably in

charge of doing the grunt work of typing

in all the different languages and the

different countries. Like it's tedious.

you uh uh from from what I know I know

I'm going to learn a lot about you guys

in this episode, but from what I know

about you, you're you're into looking at

looking at things through different

lenses and different perspectives. It

also could have been somebody being like

I'm going to get this kid.

>> Oo,

>> but here's the thing. I I do appreciate

you saying like it's not your fault.

That's not true. It was my fault. And I

think that's when I can start to work on

like, well, what did I learn from this?

And I could easily blame a PR, an

assistant. I could say somebody had a

target on my back. All that stuff. I

[ __ ] up.

>> Did you suspect that somebody might have

set you up?

>> No.

>> Well, you're saying it like it's a

possibility.

>> Well, man, when it happened, every every

theory came like here's the thing. The

world doesn't revolve around me, but my

little world, everybody was like, "They

[ __ ] up. They did this on purpose." I

was like, "Well, first of all, who's

they?" So, I was able to kind of

eliminate all that. And once I realized

I could still go on working, uh, I I

really made a lot of people angry. And

for that, that then I'm sorry. Like

again, I was just trying to

>> That's crazy just by saying that

Taiwan's a country

>> in in Chinese though,

>> right?

>> You know, like those are murky waters to

begin with, you know, like I

>> I'm not even thoroughly fluent on the US

policy. I think it's like

>> like a territorial ambiguity or some

[ __ ] like that. Like it's it's so weird

and it's it's so fragile and

>> I I uh I got into some water I shouldn't

have been swimming in. But that's that's

on me. It's not it was my fault

>> and and I think that's important for me

to bear the burden of that and be like,

"Yo, what how can I course correct? What

did I learn? Who do I really really

genuinely have to apologize for

offending?" The the biggest thing that

was a kick to the nuts is when like

people state side got pissed off

>> because you apologized.

>> Yes. in in Chinese and and I understand

it. I mean, completely like

>> bowing down to the demand of this that

gosh, what a what a shitty move by me.

Like I just I should have taken a

breath. Again, what did I learn? Don't

be reactive.

>> Mhm.

>> Take a breath, find out what's going on,

find out the best path of action, maybe

give it a few days, maybe give it a hot

second, um,

>> and then move forward. But immediately I

was like, "Oh, they're mad. You want us

to do this? Fine, no problem. I'll fix

it right now. Man, that not only did I

not try to fix the hole in the boat, I

sunk the Titanic. So, it was But again,

it was a learning experience.

>> Well, it speaks to your character that

you don't blame anybody else cuz I blame

everybody else. I'm like, who [ __ ]

wrote that?

Don't you don't you know what you're

saying or what you're making me say?

>> Uh, the the release you guys have for

the show, I I read it and you're

>> You might be the only person. So that

was that was whoever handed it to me.

That was what they said. Like I think

you might be the only person that's ever

read it.

>> Yeah.

>> Man, if if if you're gonna if you're

gonna take liberties with me, at least I

want to be able to read that you are.

>> Right.

>> You know what I'm saying? And I I can't

say I'm perfect with doing that, but

like I was handed a release. I'm like,

"Man, can I just glance this over for

Oh, this says what I think it says.

Okay, let's go."

>> Trump didn't even read it. Just

[Laughter]

>> to each their own.

>> Yeah. know it's very smart of you to

read it. You know who who knows, you

know.

>> Who knows?

>> So, this is uh Tony, is this is this the

full trifecta now? Is like if you've

gotten all of your heroes on this

podcast now?

>> There's a couple more we could knock off

out of the pro wrestling world. There's

a couple more.

>> Talk, if if you don't mind, if I can

indulge, talk pro wrestling heroes. Who

Who do we need to knock off? Who do we

need?

>> Well, I mean, in all reality, and it's a

diabolical diabolical And he can he kind

of invite he you can't you can invite

anyone you want in here. You just kind

of got to get him the wish list.

>> I mean you got to you got to start with

the number one without a doubt Vince

McMahon who started this gangster [ __ ]

and spread it around.

>> I would definitely have him is a little

>> man I he would be great.

>> Yes.

>> I whatever magic you have out there and

you have a lot of gravity.

>> Do you think he'd be interested in doing

it?

>> Are you kidding me? I think he would

love it.

>> Really?

>> I think he would love it. I I don't know

when the right time is,

>> but man, don't don't miss out on that.

At least at least send it out to the

universe.

>> Yeah. Well, I would definitely Vince, if

you're listening,

>> Vince, if you're listening,

>> let's go.

>> I think this would be a great I think

this experience would be a great one for

you.

>> Is he still involved? Is he out? Is he

in? He's out.

>> He's out.

>> He's out totally.

>> Yep.

>> It seems like he's a guy that'll be out

for a little while and then something

will happen that'll bring him back in.

>> No, I Well,

>> well,

>> I don't know. again. That's that's way

we were talking about like

>> why is your last event in this place?

I'm like, man, because I don't choose

the events. Like I don't that all that

stuff is so far above me, but I know now

he's out. I I in my eyes, I I'd like to

think that like time heals everything

and I believe in forgiveness and uh I

also believe in like looking at the body

of work, but I also know there's a lot

of fragile stuff going on there. I don't

know. I don't know, man. I don't know.

Yeah, it's a hot subject. It It can get

us into another Chinese Taipei incident.

>> Well, no, no, I man, I'm I'm again I've

I've learned to become a little bit more

accountable for for what I say and and

just how just because I feel a certain

way about a person doesn't exonerate

them from being accountable for their

actions,

>> right?

>> And just because

>> he did start quote unquote all this

gangster [ __ ]

>> uh that doesn't that doesn't mean he

doesn't need to be accountable for his

actions. So, let's let's figure out what

that means and then figure out if we can

if we can move forward and and and bring

that back in the fold or if if it stays

the way it is.

>> What do you think, Tony? You think he's

coming back?

>> I think he would come here.

>> Yeah, I think he would come here, too.

And I think he you know, that's one of

the more entertaining people of all

time. He created the entire universe.

So, you got to remember Hogan's Hogan

because of him. Cena is seen because of

him.

>> Yeah. Every single stone cold he's like,

"That sounds good. Yeah, keep it going.

We'll do the glass breaks thing and

they'll throw you beers. I like it.

Let's do it again next week. So

everything that we think

>> when he sits here, you got to do that

impression.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Uh

yeah. Stone Cold's another one that

hasn't been on.

>> Steve would be great. I think you you

would

>> you would dig Steve.

>> Oh yeah,

>> I'm sure. Yeah. He lives out here, too,

doesn't he?

>> Yep.

>> Does he?

>> Well, actually, no.

>> Doesn't he have a ranch out here?

>> I think he does somewhere. I

>> think he does.

>> Yeah, but I think he's based out of

somewhere else now. New Mexico or

Arizona. He's on the He like He's like

kind of cool and reclusive. He like

doesn't really do a lot. It's amazing.

>> He'd be a good get and I I'm pretty I

guarantee you he would do it. Yeah.

>> Steve, if you're I know you're watching.

Come on.

>> Come on. Come on in.

>> Let's talk Let's talk some wrestling.

>> The man. I mean, everyone has him on

the, you know, the Mount Rushmore. Uh

Triple H, who runs it now, the

son-in-law of Vince McMahon. Yeah.

>> I mean, he runs the entire thing. I

mean, you want you want answers to those

highle questions. There's your guy.

>> Yeah,

>> that's the guy you need to get in. A lot

of the stuff you'll probably you

probably ask today, I'll be like,

"That's way above my pay grade."

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get started. Well, you don't if you

don't know the history, Tony at one

point in time was offered a job with the

WWE before he really made it.

>> No way.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was offered a job

to write for the WWE because, you know,

Tony was a giant pro wrestling fan and

you know, he'd already had a Netflix

special so he was known as a Before

that.

>> Was it before the Netflix special?

>> The first one? The one that you released

yourself?

>> Yeah.

>> Really?

>> Yeah. It was only a couple years into me

doing standup like seven nights a week

at the comedy store all the time. And

somehow I ended up someone's like, "Hey,

I have a friend in WWE if you want to

have a meeting with them and just talk."

And I went in with straight up ideas.

This that the undertaker's brother comes

back again. This that the next like

everything back and forth. I can't even

remember any of them. It's been so long.

But I went in with the whole thing. This

guy's like, "Where the hell did you like

what? This is crazy. You just like did

this." I'm like, "Yeah, I found out a

couple days ago we were going to talk."

So, but yeah, they offered it, but I

would have had to move to Connecticut

and take a train to New York every night

to do go do standup. And that would have

just been exhausting. And everything I

heard because Patrice O'Neal, the late

great Patrice O'Neal, wrote for WWE for

a while.

>> Did he really?

>> Yeah. Yeah. For like a couple years, I

think.

>> What did he just wrote lines for them?

Like, what did he do?

>> The whole shebang. When you're a WWE

writer, they they make you write. It's

not like a cute job at all. No, there's

a lot of there's a lot of television or

there's a lot of content every week.

>> Yeah.

>> Right now, I think they got they have

three weekly shows.

>> So, that's 20 I think one of them's

going back to three hours, 16 like it's

like 50 segments of TV.

>> Yeah.

>> Every week.

>> Yeah. But I remember when you were

talking about it.

>> Yeah.

>> When you're talking about potentially

doing it, I was like,

>> Yeah. It was tricky.

>> And I was like, dude, you do not want to

live in Connecticut.

>> No. That's the main thing. If it was

anywhere else other than Connecticut, it

kind of m would have made more sense. If

it was in New York City, it would have

been a no-brainer. If it was in LA,

definitely.

>> But like, fast forward now. You're

you're more and more involved.

>> Yes.

>> Well, this is the crazy thing. Like, we

had talked like during the the old days,

like we would talk in the green room.

I'd be like, that would be your ultimate

dream job, like to make it as a comedian

and somehow be involved in the UFC the

way I or excuse me, in WWE the way I'm

involved in the UFC. like very similar.

>> Yeah, it's look

>> crazy. It's insane.

>> I'm going tomorrow night. I'm going to

be in the front row at the arena in my

hometown.

>> Are they here at the moment?

>> Oh, man.

>> Are you messing with me? Are you going

to Is your music going to hit your

>> No, I'm not there. I'm I got one.

>> This is what This is what they do, by

the way.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> Oh, yeah. This is what I didn't even

know they were going to be in town.

>> He's correct. There's a lot of You mess

with people. You're right. But then

somebody like me will actually shoot you

straight and be like, "I'm not going to

be there and I won't be there." And

you'll be like, "Ah, now I'm just I'm

building the equity for people to mess

with people." I'm giving 20 20 mulligans

out there

>> tomorrow.

Not a chance.

>> Exactly. I heard a great story. You'll

probably love this. You might even know

this story, but um the Undertaker, his

wife, and his podcast co-host went to

Wrestlemania. They're up in a fancy

suite. This was um which one was it? The

Rock made an appearance. Did you? Yes,

you were there, right? This that huge

finish at Wrestlemania like three years

ago where it was just boom boom boom

boom and all these legends were coming

out this huge finish just like they they

can't even like follow it. The ultimate

climax of a Wrestlemania and one

wrestler comes out interrupts this huge

main event and then another one then

another one. Anyway, the Undertaker, his

wife and his podcast co-host were up in

the suite. Undertaker goes, "I'm going

to go use the restroom." They're like,

"He's been gone a while." The lights go

out, the bell tools. They're watching

from the suite. He's been gone for like

10 minutes, 20 minutes. He went and

changed real quick. And then now he's

>> came out as the Undertaker.

>> Yeah. Came out as the Undertaker.

They're in the suite like, "OH MY GOD,

IT'S the Undertaker."

>> Like they don't tell anybody. It's so

old school and awesome that they keep

secrets so locked up that their own

loved ones, his wife, didn't even know.

>> That's hilarious. That is so crazy.

>> It's It's fun to be able to surprise a

live audience. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I mean,

it's got to be a big part of it. How did

you get involved in pro wrestling? Were

you Were you a fan as a kid and then?

>> I sure was. I I think we have the same

gravity of like, man, I was a super fan

as a kid, but then I fell out of it

admittedly kind of when Hogan went to

WCW.

Um, so like I was into wrestling and

then I wasn't. Then I got into sports or

whatever. Uh, and then I got back into

wrestling when everyone else did when

like Stone Cold Steve Austin became big.

the rock became big. The attitude era

hit

>> and I was just um working a dead end job

over at Gold's Gym Venice and like

didn't know what I wanted to do with my

life.

>> How old were you?

>> Uh 21.

>> Wow.

>> 21. I'd moved out to to California not

to be famous or anything. My degree was

in Kinesise and I wanted to like that

was the center of the fitness universe

in 99 2000. So like all equipment

manufacturers are there. I'm like, man,

I'll go get a job with Hammer Strength

or Cybex or like

>> maybe Golds or like put that piece of

paper to on the wall to to like get a

good paying job. It did not work.

>> So, I ended up like front desk cleaning

toilets, selling protein bars in that

order. So, don't ever buy a protein bar.

I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. But

no, I was kind of like a jack of all

trades over there. Um and a a friend of

mine, um Chris Bell and Mark Bell.

>> Oh, I know those guys.

>> Yeah. Yeah. They literally were like,

"Dude, you talk about WWF all the time.

You know, we train down in Orange

County." And at that time, Chris Bell

was kind of like writing for this

promotion.

>> Like, would you want to do it? And I,

man, I that doesn't happen without them

accidentally saying like, "Yo, we we

trained to do this." So,

>> his documentaries are [ __ ]

incredible. Bigger, stronger, faster.

>> And then the other one, the pill one.

What was that one called?

>> Magic pill. No. What was the one the the

addiction one

uh that Chris released? But um Bigger,

Stronger, Faster is such a [ __ ] great

documentary.

>> The Bell family. I've been I've been

friends with them for a long time.

>> Great guys.

>> Yeah,

>> that that documentary like blew the lid

off of like the reality of steroids.

Prescription Thugscription is another

great one.

>> Yeah. Crazy thing is he got addicted to

pills while he was doing that because he

had surgery while he was doing that and

got addicted to pills while he's making

a [ __ ] documentary on people being

addicted to pills. That's how potent

pills are. A guy making a documentary

about addiction.

He just thinks, "Well, I'm just taking

these cuz I got hip surgery and I'm in

in [ __ ] agony." And then gets hooked.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> Like that's how crazy it is.

>> Yeah. They're strong.

>> Yeah. I would imagine.

Did you ever have an issue?

>> No. No. As a matter of fact, uh I've

I've had fusion in my neck, right pec

completely detached, reattached, both

triceps reattached. Uh both triceps

scoped.

>> Um

nose relocated. Like I I got I probably

I'm in like 10 physical surgeries where

they got to go and correct something.

Never taken one uh pain pill.

>> Wow. I have all the prescriptions in the

bottom drawer of my house filled. And

and it's weird because at every

facility, the first thing they the first

hill they climb is pain management.

>> You wake up from anesthesia, you're like

gray and murky. And I've been in a bunch

of surgeries at a bunch of different

facilities. The protocol is always the

same. Do you want something for the

pain? Here, we got to make sure you take

this with you because you're not in any

pain.

>> Yeah. Like I I understand because you if

you leave, if you're feeling okay, maybe

you're high off adrenaline, I don't

know. And then the operation sets in of

like, holy [ __ ] this is a 10 out of 10.

I can't I need something. I get that.

But I I guess from falling down and

hurting my body a lot, like I know my

pain threshold.

>> Yeah. And when I the the worst one was

probably the putting the whole pec back

on and then attaching it, but when I

woke up I was able to like mess around

with the stress ball and I never took

one pill.

>> That's amazing.

>> And I I still have the the full bottles

of like some are labeled 2008 is when I

had my first surgery and they're just

all there.

>> There's a lot of people listening right

now going

>> count them all if they're still good.

>> But the find out where John Cena stores

to them. Yeah,

>> it was weird because the medical staff

couldn't couldn't believe it. Like

they're like, "You don't want anything."

No, because man, it's a I know how I am

with this.

>> It's Yeah, it's a [ __ ] slippery road.

>> And I would just I'd be high on opiates.

All opioids all the time.

>> I got my first knee surgery, I think, in

93 or 94, and they gave me I got an ACL

reconstruction, and they gave me

Vicodin, I think. Pretty sure it was

Vicodin. I took one one day, and I felt

so stupid. I was lying on lying on my

couch watching TV and I felt so dumb.

And my knee still hurt, you know? It was

just like it was distracting me from the

fact that my knee hurt, but I'm like, I

can't be this dumb. I'm dumb enough as

it is. I can't add to my dumbness with

pills. Like, I just saw it coming, you

know? And also, I knew a bunch of guys

who had pill problems. I w up selling my

pills to a friend of mine that would

sell pills.

>> Gosh, I I should have taken your idea.

Could have made some cash. I only made

like a couple hundred bucks or

something. I don't even remember. It was

like in the 90s. But but I remember just

that one pill. And so then every surgery

I've had ever since then. They always

offered me stuff and I never took

anything. I got my other ACL

reconstructed in 2003. Never took

anything. I got in my nose fixed. It's

like 2008. I got my nose reconstructed,

deviated septum. The guy was insisting

that I he gave me two prescriptions for

pain med medicine. And I was like, I

don't want anything. I was like, "Is it

going to get worse than this?" He's

like, "It could get." I go, "Right now,

it feels like nothing."

>> Yeah.

>> It's like, but if you've been, again,

like you, you've been beaten up so many

times your body, you're so used to just

being in pain. And I think for some

people just the the daunting anxiety of

pain itself. It's like they just want a

pill before they even realize like I

could kind of just Yeah, it sucks, but

it's not going to suck forever. It's

going to heal. So, let's just deal with

the suck and just lay here. put some ice

on it or whatever and just relax.

>> And uh along with that, it's kind of

like your your body's natural way of

saying like, "Okay, maybe push a little

bit more. Try to get a few more degrees

of range of motion in physical therapy."

Like

>> if if those senses are numbed,

>> right,

>> and like shut off,

>> right?

>> First of all, you you do feel just like

I don't want to do anything. you won't

work or in many cases you won't work to

do the work to get better to get or

>> you just numb.

>> You don't know the messaging. You can't

listen to your body.

>> Like if it's really really in pain,

maybe it's maybe your body's trying to

tell you something. I don't know.

>> I always assume that people feel pain

differently. I mean, I just would

imagine like like people feel hot sauce

differently. Like some people they can't

have any spice. Some people [ __ ] can

have like, you know, death peppers and

they're fine.

>> So, all right. I'll throw that out to

the group. Is pain a personal

experience?

>> I mean, there's no way I'm as tough as

you guys. So, yeah, it has to be.

>> But I think in other dimensions you

might be way tougher. I don't know.

>> I don't know. Maybe I think I think

there's something.

>> You don't know, Tony.

>> I can't imagine the dimension.

>> I went and visited a firehouse the other

day and I was going down the pole going

wee. Like you guys wouldn't do that.

>> I would do that.

>> So, so in that in that aspect, you're

tougher than me.

>> Yeah. It can take ridicule and we can

take ridicule really easily, but I don't

know how what it feels like for other

people. You know what I'm saying? I

mean, I would assume that everybody

feels the same. But, you know, one of

the reasons why I think maybe it is like

it's different, but because my mom my

mom has a crazy tolerance to pain. Like

my guy who uh my stem cell guy in LA uh

my mom had a real knee issue and he was

treating her as well. And he goes, "It's

hilarious. Your mother's just like you.

She just takes it like she doesn't even

flinch. She just stick it like he's like

that doesn't happen with like 75year-old

ladies like take a needle and shove it

in their knee and and push it and she

just doesn't move

>> and you know she's like oh it wasn't

painful. It was no big deal. It's like

you know a lot of 75 year old ladies

would be [ __ ] sweating and freaking

out and seeing the needle.

>> Pretty sure I would be. Yeah.

>> But I I I I don't know you know I don't

know what it feels like to other people.

But like when I got my ACL, my right ACL

reconstructed, it was a lot easier

because it was a cadaavver. And I

recommend it to anybody. The difference

between a patella tendon graph recovery

and a cadaavver recovery is literally

like six months. The difference is it's

the cadaavver was so much quicker.

>> Wow.

>> Oh my god. Because the cadaavver they

take it I mean it's all swollen and

everything afterwards, but it's somebody

else's tendon. They take an Achilles

tendon off of a cadaavver. So it's 150%

stronger than an ACL. They [ __ ] screw

that sucker in place. Little tiny

orthoscopic holes, not nearly as

invasive. And then five days later, you

know, Matt Likenberg, I went to his

party for his birthday party 5 days

later just walking around and he was

like, "Did you just have surgery?" I go,

"Yeah, like it's not that big a deal,

>> man. It feels fine."

>> You know, it's it was so much easier.

The left one was brutal cuz they take a

slice out of your patella tendon and

then they could take a chunk out of your

shin bone and a chunk out of your

kneecap and then they use those to screw

this new tendon that they created into

the shin bone and into your your thigh

bone. That was rough.

>> That one was painful as [ __ ] And it

took a long time before it felt normal.

Took a long time before I could go down

on one knee again.

>> When was that pain? That was in the 90s.

>> And then the other one was

>> 2000 early 2000s. 200 like twoish

somewhere around that two three

>> I mean 10 more years of performing

surgeries 10 more years of

>> medical I just think it's the diff

because they still do that patella

tendon graph and I think George St.

Pierre had it done that way. I know a

bunch of people that I I'm friends with

had it done that way and I was like,

"Oh, don't do that one." Yeah,

>> do the cadaavver. But people are worried

like, "What if you get AIDS?" Like,

you're not Jesus Christ, you're not

going to get AIDS from it. Stop. And

it's also it's like

>> you feel better before you are better,

unfortunately, because the way the

tendon works. So, when they replace a

tendon with a cadaavver, it's not like

you have this guy's tendon in your body.

What it is like is that tendon is a

scaffolding and then your body

repoliferates that with your own cells.

So over the course of six months, my

body had filled in all of what used to

be a cadaavver with my own cells. So you

have you you'll feel like it's better

before it's better. So a lot of MMA

fighters, they re they start training

too quickly and they blow it out again

because it's still soft.

>> That's always the concern. It's always

>> in any you feel good and you're like,

man, I can

>> I can do this.

>> Especially animals, you know, guys who

are just used to pain and used and used

to pushing, you know, and they just pop

it out again. I know multiple MMA

fighters that have had knee surgery and

then blew it out while they were

recovering

>> and just a few months more, they could

just they'd be all right. But it's

impatience. You want to get back in

there. And then it's even worse because

you got to drill into the same holes and

pull it out and open you up and it's

more invasive surgery. They got to

remove the screws and

>> [ __ ] Yeah. But I just I don't think

everybody feels pain the same. I think

it's a genetic thing. I I'm It's just an

assumption obviously because I don't

feel what other people feel. But I think

some people just any kind of pain is

just they can't function. They're

they're just in agony. And I think those

people are way more vulnerable to the

pills.

That's just my assumption.

>> That's a decent perspective. I

definitely I I would agree with

pain is is a is a personal experience.

Like there there are people who

I mean I've seen people like I can't

believe you go through that. And then

people be like but you get the [ __ ]

kicked out of you. I can't believe you

do that. It's all it's all relative. I

would I would be

>> [ __ ] in cufflinks if you get that stem

cell needle out. I would be sweating

right until the [ __ ] final moment.

Like some some stuff I can't take, you

know? So I guess it is

>> it could be combined with like what we

fear in life or maybe

>> maybe fear of hard work or fear of

effort. Who knows? I don't know. I don't

know.

>> I think it's also being accustomed to

pain,

>> you know. So if you did you wrestle when

you were younger?

>> No, I uh played football.

>> You played football. Well, that's just

like that in that you're always in pain.

I mean, if you're playing football,

you're always colliding with people.

You're always you got to have shoulders

[ __ ] with you, your backs [ __ ] with

you. It's like it's never ending.

>> I' I've always said that there's

something there's some value into losing

a fight.

>> Oh yeah.

>> Like I grew up with four brothers and we

kicked the [ __ ] out of each other and

I'm I I was not always on the winning

side. So very early on in my life as a

young person. You know what it's like to

lose a fight.

>> Oh, it's very valuable. And I think that

that's there's a lot maybe to do with

the pain conversation there of like just

flat out getting your ass kicked and

then being able to dust yourself off and

be like, I'll get you next time. You

know, like

>> it's not over. You know what I'm saying?

We're brothers. We're going to fight

again. You know, like

>> that's also knowing like why did he beat

me? What can I do to beat him next time?

You know, like if you don't have that in

your life, also if you don't know what

it feels like to get your ass kicked,

you get a little mouthy. I mean, how

many mouthy people do we know that have

never been [ __ ] up? And I think that's

why like there's real consequences if it

actually comes down. You start yelling

and you get mouthy. If it actually comes

down to it, and we've all seen many of

these videos on the internet where

someone just

>> don't they don't know what the [ __ ]

they're asking for, what they're getting

into, and then all a sudden they're

getting hit. And man, I I'm not perfect

and there are days where I'm short of

patience, but when it gets to that weird

spot of like, yo, someone's gonna get

hit in the face. I always try to like

lean on diplomacy.

>> Always. Always. Yeah.

>> Please, let's not do that cuz that

[ __ ] sucks.

>> And I bet a lot of people say to you,

"Man, if I was you, I'd be [ __ ]

everybody up." That's the dumb people

always say that. Like, it doesn't end

with that. Then this guy gets his

brother or he shoots you or they run you

over with a car

>> or you think you're going to [ __ ]

somebody up and you get [ __ ] handled,

>> right?

>> Like you never know, man. You never know

anybody else's story

>> day. You never know

>> to so many people out there that train

today. It's so much different than when

I was younger. Like you would assume

that like I assume that a good solid 10%

of all men you meet have martial arts

skills now

>> because of the UFC

>> popularity of it. Certainly certainly in

in western society it's you know the gym

there's a gym every plaza

>> also there's so many kids that like

watch UFC and then play practice with

themselves and you could learn a lot

just doing that you guys learn a lot

just watching it on TV and then

emulating it at home with their friends

>> can tell those who watch WWE because

when those moments happen they try to do

some crazy move doesn't work doesn't

>> how many guys have [ __ ] thrown their

buddy onto a conference table or

something because they thought they

thought it was the way into it.

>> It's crazy,

>> you know? I mean, the [ __ ] sheer

amount of punishment you guys put

yourself through is staggering. I mean,

it really is staggering.

>> But, uh, thank you very much. Uh, it is

is all for the good. Like, it's like a a

pro football player, pro hockey player,

UFC. I think I think the beautiful

advantage that we have is that it's we

can we can make choices on what we do.

So when you're in UFC and they close the

door, it's kind of [ __ ] best person

wins. You know, you gota it's it's

survival. When we're in WWE and we both

step in the ring and they ring the bell,

we're working together, working together

to put on the best show for the

audience. And in that process, you can

calculate the risks you want to take.

>> And I think that's what allows somebody

to be able to perform for 23 years. You

know, I I don't know. I know that that

um age-old stat that everybody says

about like the average NFL career is

what two and a half years or three and a

half years. I don't know what the stat

is on average UFC career like how long

when what's your window to be

functionally profitable in UFC. But I

know because our risks are calculated

and we're working together rather than

against each other. The math is is way

higher for you to have like a 10, 15, 20

year career

>> in WWE. But that also is 10 more years

have fallen down, 15 more years have

fallen down. So you

>> it's weird like you can choreograph the

risk, but you have to do it time and

time again. And and the schedule in WWE

just changed like

>> to do 70 matches a year now in WWE is

like, man, you you're a workhorse. We

used to do 220 230

>> which is so crazy.

>> It's 220 days of trauma in a year cuz

you're getting no matter what you're

getting some trauma. No matter what a

guy body slams you, something hap,

you're colliding, you go off the ropes,

you're smashing into each other.

>> I get such a warm feeling when uh first

timers go into the ring for the first

time.

>> It's like, oh, it's like a it's like a

bouncy floor and then they fall down

once and like the wind's knocked out of

them. and they're like, "My brain

moved." I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, now you

got to do that again and again." But

it's weird. I've I've uh I've gotten to

work with a lot of standups. And WWE is

kind of changing. I I would say it's on

the progression of a standup making it

to just like a stadium tour. But man,

when I performed, my sweet spot, we ran

very parallel lives. Like you I've

worked every city Hampton Beach Casino

Ballroom to Madison Square Garden like

to the Saitama Super Arena to AT&T

Stadium to Bangor Maine or to Valparezo

Indiana. Like you you go to all of these

places and it's like

>> Friday you're in one place, Saturday

you're in another place, Sunday you're

in another place, Monday you're in

another place, Tuesday you're in another

place. One day to drop your [ __ ] one

day to catch your flight out, do it

again.

>> Like it's it's it's kind of we we're

kind of like touring standups in that

regard.

>> Very similar. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

>> And you're you're responsible for your

own trans like and I'm speaking from

mighty I don't know how it is now cuz I

got one left and then I'm done. But uh

you were responsible for your own

transportation booking your own hotels

like you you were they were just like

hey we're starting here running here.

Good luck. Which is awesome because you

create you people are really independent

when they when they go through that fire

and you weed out the people who don't

want to be there.

>> Yeah. Because the just the sheer work

the sheer workload

>> making those clubs and like making doing

a tour. It's Also the adrenaline like

it's like what do you do after a night

like that? Most jobs people can't wait

to be done and then go home and relax

and fall asleep where if you're doing

standup or obviously wrestling you were

just

>> you're done late at night and you're

like man let the water rush.

>> Yeah.

>> [ __ ] What can I do better? This [ __ ]

killed. And then it's 4 in the morning.

>> Yeah. You're buzzing. Yep. You're

buzzing. And it's also it's really hard

to have any kind of a normal

relationship because you're just

constantly not home. You're constantly

gone. Like even your friends like you

you really as a touring comic, the best

thing that I ever did is start taking

friends with me on the road. Yeah.

Instead of just working with like random

guys that I didn't know in different

towns.

>> Those are fun sometimes. Sometimes like

you know two out of 10 times you meet a

new friend.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Eight out of 10 times you're with some

annoying alcoholic who, you know, who

[ __ ] sucks and and they're annoying

and then they want to take you someplace

and, you know, you get in trouble.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I I mean that that's

certainly um the the normal life aspect

of it. It's also

like at full tilt. It's a it's a very

absorbing thing. It's a very selfish

thing. So, I think not only you don't

work regular office hours and you're a

nomad, a gypsy, but especially from a

WWE perspective, you you have to like

you're you're a startup founder. You

have to wake up thinking about it. You

have to think about it all day. You have

to go to sleep thinking about it. Wake

up in in the two hours of sleep that you

get being like, I remember this line or

maybe we can do this stunt or whatever.

>> Right? And it's people who are in your

sphere. At least through my perspective

and my journey, man, if if you were in

my gravity from like 2002 to like 2019,

I wasn't a part of a team. You did it my

way. Like bus leaves at 10. If you're

there at 10:01, you're [ __ ] left.

Like we're doing this and we're training

here and we're doing this and but it's

it's so it's so the end product is good.

So, like the dream job of like, man, I

never the the six-year-old kid holding

the paper belt can be an adult holding

the real belt and get shekels for doing

that. And I don't ever want to I don't

want to put that in jeopardy. So, you

[ __ ] are going to have to get in line

and we're just going to have to go.

Like, it you you know, I I I was absent

a lot in relationships because if it

wasn't on my terms, it didn't exist,

>> you know, because here you got you you

catch lightning out of a jar. I'm a kid

from West Newberry who's, you know, come

from a family of five and we there's

always more broke, but man, we were a

good level of broke and then now like,

hey, if you just work hard at this

thing, you can kind of not ever be that

again. All right, [ __ ] this. I'm doing

this thing all the time. But that comes

with, hey, I'm getting married or like

my grandfather died or I got a birthday

coming up or like, hey man, you missed

another Thanksgiving. You're damn right

I did because I'm doing the thing.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, so that it's al for me at

least it was it was that as well of like

laser focus all things WWE.

>> Well, it's that in everything that you

do where you want to really be

successful.

>> It takes saying yes to the thing means

no to everything else.

>> I had Jensen Hang on the podcast the

other day who's the CEO of Nvidia and

like one of the biggest companies on

planet Earth. Huge company. [ __ ] dude

still to this day works seven days a

week. And he was talking about when he

goes on vacation, I go, "Do you go on

vacation and just put it all down?" He

goes, "No, I work." He goes, "Even when

I'm with my family, I have to work. I'm

working. I work seven days a week. I

don't take a day off. I love it." And he

goes, "And I'm terrified of failure." He

goes, "That's my motivation. My

motivation is not I want to succeed. My

motivation is fear of failure." Yeah.

Every day I show up saying, "If I don't

do this, we could fail and I'm going to

work seven days a week."

>> Everybody thinks they want to be a CEO.

You think you want to be a billionaire?

Like, you want to do that? You want to

do that when you're 60 years old? Do you

want to be working seven days a week all

day long from the moment you wake up? He

wakes up at 4:30 in the morning. He says

he answers thousands of emails a day.

I'm like, what? How are you? How is that

even [ __ ] possible? gets up at 4:30

in the morning, answers all these

emails, works all day long, constantly

problem solving, making AI chips. It's

[ __ ] crazy, right? Yeah. But that's

with everything. You want to be at the

top of the heap.

>> There's only one way.

>> Yeah. When you see something difficult

look easy,

>> there's a bunch of 4:30 in the morning

wakeups that made that happen.

>> You know,

>> I think with everything in life Yeah.

anything in life where you really want

to excel at it, there's no shortcuts.

Yeah. doesn't exist. That weeds a lot of

people out.

>> It does. It does. And there's a lot of,

man, armchair quarterback is the easiest

and best position on the field.

>> Yeah.

>> I can do that. All I needed to do is do

this.

>> Sure. Go right ahead.

>> Yeah.

>> Take your best shot.

>> Yeah. Good luck.

>> Yeah.

>> It's It's interesting because it must

weed out so many talented people.

There's probably a lot of talented

people that you've seen over the years

that just didn't have that drive to

constantly improve and succeed and

really be thinking about what they're

doing all the time. I I like that

statement because I think the talent is

doing it all. You could you could have a

>> No, you can have one. You could smoke if

you want. I don't care.

>> We have fans in here.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. With fans suck all the smoke.

>> Okay.

>> I think this the statement of um man so

many talented people didn't make it.

They may have they may be an acrobat.

>> They may be a fast talker, but that's

not the only attribute that makes one

special. Uh, you may be a great joke

writer, but man, if if you don't master

stage presence and you be a joke a great

joke writer with stage presence, but if

you can't lug the tour,

>> yeah,

>> you're not you're not talented for it.

>> Well, it's it's really the grind.

>> It is everything the all-encompassing

thing. So when someone with great

athletic ability decides that it's not

for them because eventually that is we

one thing about WWE um for all the

arguments of like backstage politico

everybody understands the sound of money

>> and no one refuses it like I [ __ ]

hate this guy but I got to give him

another match. It may not be, but I now

have to give them a 10-year contract.

But when they go out there, if the noise

is there, even if the they [ __ ] hate

you, you get another match. I'm I am

proof positive of that meritocracy at

work.

>> Yeah.

>> Like everybody [ __ ] hated me.

>> Why' they hate you?

>> I was just real different. Like I

>> I was just really different. In what

way?

>> Um

>> so I didn't rock I didn't ruffle any

feathers when I kind of uh entered the

business. kept quiet, did my stuff, but

I also didn't connect with the audience

and and and I don't know, maybe you guys

see this in standup or not, but then I

got like a personality of like the the

white rap guy, like the the white

hip-hop guy.

>> You know about that?

>> Yeah.

>> But like I [ __ ] went I [ __ ] went

all in,

>> you know, urban gear, like and I'm a

hip-hop head, so it's like, oh man, this

is my sweet spot. This is the the the

avenue. This isn't all of my

personality, but this is one level that

I can show that I think everyone will

get. So, if you go to Madison Square

Garden, you get it. But if we go to

Wheeling, West Virginia, you'll also get

it. And you may like it in some places

and hate it in some places, but everyone

will get it. I will not be selling

apathy.

But in doing that,

>> I never followed dress code. I was

saying disrespectful [ __ ] about my

peers. Like, I kind of did it my own

way. M.

>> So, I was I was kind of ruffling some

feathers backstage or just I was taking

big swings cuz I was going to [ __ ]

get fired anyway. The alternative was

lose my job. So, I was like, "Fuck it.

I'm going down swinging."

>> Yeah.

>> And then the people behind the curtain

were like, "Ah, the kid's disrespectful

to the business. He doesn't care about

the business." All the while, I just

want to keep my [ __ ] job, you know?

So the they behind the curtain weren't

really invested, but they were also

humble enough to be like, "There's noise

out there. Got to give them another

match and one match at a time. Times 23

years of compounding interest. We're

here."

>> What did Vince think about your hip-hop?

>> Hated it and then loved it.

>> He hated it and then loved it. And and I

think I think I'm thinking for somebody,

but I think from his perspective is like

when I hear somebody's idea for a

personality, man, I want to be this

sports agent guy or whatever. Oh, yo, I

have I have the idea of what that is in

my head. And if their projection of that

idea doesn't match my projection that

idea, I'm like, ah, [ __ ] I hate it. But

that doesn't mean it can't work. So, I

think what maybe what happened was my

perspective of the white hip hop guy

from the mean street of West Newberry

and Vince's perspective of John Cena the

rapper we probably missed. Like he had

an idea and I had an idea and usually he

will craft it to to his vision. I got to

give him respect for allowing me to to

kind of to run with it, you know. Well,

it's probably that fear of fire being

fired that like keeps you on the edge.

>> Dude, that was it. Of like uh the Nvidia

guy of like I don't want to fail. Yeah,

I I got the sit down of like, hey, we're

going to cut you

>> cuz it's not working. Like you you're

out there for your matches. You hear the

same. It's not working. And I there's no

argument there. I'm like [ __ ] all

right. I got to touch the sun. I got to

make it. I got to play for the Yankees.

I got my one at bat. I'm Moonlight

Graham. And then they heard me rap in

the back of the bus and was like, "Man,

Stephanie heard me rap in the back of

the bus."

>> Yeah.

>> And was like, "Yo, you want to do that

on TV?" I'm like, "Lose my job or

[ __ ] rap?" "Yeah, let's go. Let's

Let's do this."

>> Yeah.

>> So, it was Stephanie's idea.

>> And it was a [ __ ] accident, dude. It

was an accident. It's my final my final

overseas tour for the WWE.

>> And the boys just spend time. Like,

that's the one time they get the whole

group together is overseas because you

don't want to be hurting cats like in

Amsterdam or something. Everybody rides

on the bus. You go from town to town. So

like to pass the time, the boys just do

whatever. And they were freestyling in

the back of the bus. And I normally just

[ __ ] kept to myself because I was

raised in the environment of like keep

your ears open, keep your mouth shut,

don't do anything unless spoken to. So I

I did that, but I didn't I also didn't

make any connections with people who

were putting their lives on the line for

me.

>> You know, some of the guys you you

really beat the [ __ ] out of in the rings

are like your best friends. Uh, so I

didn't have any of those connections and

I heard these guys rapping. I just

remember playing Roller Coaster Tycoon

on my laptop, fold that [ __ ] up, putting

it away and be like, I'm going to the

back of the bus and just waited my turn

and then filleted like 12 guys.

>> Yeah.

>> And Stephanie was like, "How the [ __ ]

did you remember all that?" I'm like,

"No, no, it's freestyle. You just make

it up." And she's like, "Well, make up

something about me." And we were

boarding a plane. And I literally like

utilized the plane, the people getting

on the plane, what she was wearing, what

she was eating. She's like, "Would you

do this on TV?"

>> And that's where we got a chance.

>> Wow. That's

>> It wasn't like off to the moon. Like, I

got a a shitty chance on a small spot

and that worked.

>> So then I got moved to like the dog [ __ ]

Saturday night program that nobody

watches. But the cool thing is no one's

watching. So like I could do whatever I

wanted. So, I started saying more racy

[ __ ] and dressing more outlandish and

having more personality and like

claiming ownership of the show. I call

myself Mr. Saturday Night and it's the

shitty show. You don't want to be Mr.

Saturday Night, but I did

>> and then I got another match and got

another match and one by one it kind of

brought me here.

>> Wow.

>> Just a [ __ ] happy accident, man.

>> That's crazy.

>> All the way to

>> even when the bells were like, "Hey, you

want the whole thing's a [ __ ]

accident. You want to start training?

[ __ ] yeah, sure." All right, great. And

you want to start rapping? Yeah, [ __ ]

it. Sure. Let's see what happens.

>> That's amazing.

>> It's a happy accident.

>> And for it to go all the way to last

year's massive heel turn. He went heel,

>> dude. And I

>> That was this year, by the way.

>> Yeah. Yeah, that was this year. Yeah,

it's been a it's crazy year.

>> Yeah, that was I was at Mania and man,

one literally perhaps I other than maybe

Hogan, right? The greatest heel turn in

wrestling history when a good good good

good crowd-pleasing guy goes bad bad and

dark. You had moments the things you

were saying, the way you were saying

them. Epic, iconic, iconic heel turn.

Cold, dark, working with the rock. He

was in cahoots. That's the good guy,

Cody.

>> You can like see the people's faces.

That That's the fun thing. It's like uh

the stuff is so simple, but it's it's

the if you take out the crowd in that

situation and just put those three guys,

it is really [ __ ] up what we do. But

when you add the audience in the back

and all of their faces and what's going

on, that's what makes

>> Bro, even your face, you you you got

like a mean guy face all of a sudden.

It's like you look like a different

person.

>> That's interesting.

>> I was having a bad day.

>> Well, this is also when you'd already

done a bunch of acting.

>> Uh, yes. Like this is this year.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. This is uh February this year.

Yeah.

>> How much of the creative control do you

have over the aspects of that heel turn?

Like for example, one thing that I

thought was the coolest, I was I was in

the front row of WrestleMania behind the

Spanish announce table. So I'm directly

across from the entrance, you know, the

giant Wrestleman is a football stadium

in Las Vegas and there was no music and

it was a black background. Normally he's

the most color with the most iconic

>> loud wild music. No music, black

background, and in white letters it just

said Cena. And you just walked out with

literally the statement was I'm not here

to entertain you people basically is

what it felt like. And I loved it. I

mean, this is the main event of Mania.

>> You are so entertained. I mean, I want

to entertain you. [ __ ] I [ __ ] up.

>> Yeah, I have a I'm a I have a the degree

in pro wrestling, but my masters is in

healom. Like it's like the bad I just

love a bad guy. And even ever since that

bad guy turn I feel like and I feel like

most bad guy fans do now newly connected

with the back to the return of the good

guy scene.

>> Yeah. There it is.

>> Oh, I mean it's it was literally just

>> I used to come out like a Tasmanian

devil and then just just reversed it

all.

>> And it seems like nothing but it's

iconic.

just cold as ice. Everyone else for four

hours coming out with colorful music and

pyro and all this stuff. And there's the

guy that normally did it the best and

the biggest just really not giving a

[ __ ]

>> And Wrestlemania, if you're going to do

it, like you you'd give your best

entrance for Wrestlemania. And this was

I guess we were going for the shittiest

one.

>> Oh, but it but it just rang the opposite

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Limited time offer. So like for example

those things those details that's you

mostly pitching to the creative team

like like for example like the even just

the white letters the black entrance is

that how does that kind of come

together?

>> So I think that's um I and I've been

lucky enough to kind of take this

perspective of not knowing everything

and realizing that even even with 23

years of fluency I'm not the smartest

guy in the room. I don't know the

technology they have and what they can

do. Now granted, a black LED board, I I

could probably come up with that, but

what I what I'd like to do is lean on my

resources. Like, hey, let's go to

production and see what production is

thinking. And I I don't want to tell

them what to do because I want to hear

their ideas first.

>> Yeah.

>> And production was like, what if we just

went basic? I'm like, how basic can you

go?

>> Yeah.

>> What if we just blacked everything out?

Yeah. But I know from what you guys have

said, you also like to light the No. No.

What if we just black everything out?

You guys would do that. Oh, that sucks.

Yeah, let's do that.

>> Yeah.

>> So, it's not it's not me with all of

these things. I don't I don't have

enough depth of field to touch all the

bases, but I will go to every

department.

>> Yeah.

>> And say like, okay, entrance is a big

part of what we do. What do we do for

lighting? What do we do for production?

Go to camera. Like, how do you guys want

to shoot it? And then it trickles down

when you talk to the talent you're

working with. How do we portray this

message? Uh and then of course it starts

at the top with creatively, I want to

make you a bad guy, so we're going to do

that. Okay, sure. We're going to do

that. How do you want to do that? But

it's I think it's getting we have a lot

of talented people and just allowing

them to do their job and and let you

know like, oh, I was kind of thinking

this and then tell them, yeah, that's a

good idea. Let's do that.

>> Yeah. You know,

>> it's amazing

>> because I don't know what I don't know

what I miss if I'm making all the

demands.

>> To show you the contrast, his opponent

that night came out to I think it was 40

people on red, white, and blue dirt

bikes all dressed like American people.

He comes out

>> elevated from inside of the stage

wearing this super goddy mask that he

has to take off. Fireworks, fireworks,

fire, sparks, smoke, all of these

different things. And he just comes out

blankfaced. I just got my bunk sock on

the back. Just

>> run on.

>> There you go.

>> It's so funny hearing Tony talk about

this because for people who don't know,

the way Tony runs Kill Tony is basically

a version of a WWE event. I mean, it

really is like when he does the arena

shows, he's has everything set up like a

WWE event.

>> Yeah. I mean, even the thing we did with

Shane when when Shane was playing when

Shane was playing Trump when Trump and I

were supposedly feuding online, Trump

had said something about me online and

then uh Trump's talking [ __ ] like as

Shane's talking [ __ ] and then the music

plays and I show up behind him. It's

pure pro wrestling.

>> Oh yeah,

>> it's pure pro wrestling.

>> And MSG's on their feet shocked. You

know, you're surprising this crowd that

thinks they're just there for a comedy

show and well there's the panel. I guess

that's what we're going to have tonight.

But the surprises, the ups, the downs.

And then he brings up Joey Diaz. So it's

like boom boom. Kind of like that big

finish at Mania that I was talking about

like superstar bringing up a superstar,

you know, music, music, smoke, fire.

>> Yes.

>> All these little things.

>> The more the more you make it important,

the more important it becomes.

>> Yeah. As when what he's saying is like

when Trump was there, this was as Trump

was running for president and Trump

thought that I was endorsing RFK. So he

got mad at me. So I said I am here to

endorse someone and I brought out Joey

Diaz. I mean

>> which is great because you're going to

get a reveal but you get a different

reveal and it's like

>> and everybody went nuts and but it's

like the audience they are into it like

they're into pro wrestling. They want

all the heel turns. They want all the

chaos. They want all the the the

pageantry and the the fire and the

explosions and all the [ __ ]

>> Man, you get you get any live audience,

they're into all that. Like watch a

college football game, watch a soccer

game overseas or or football as they

would say. Like

>> the fans, it's it's like a group think

of energy.

>> Mhm.

>> That's [ __ ] nuts.

>> Like audiences want it. It doesn't

matter where you're at. Like what

>> man, when comics just go out and light

up a stage and they have that [ __ ]

stage presence and they just slay a set,