I thought it went well today because of

the battle that we're kind of dealing

with

>> that we saw a ton of people come out

>> to talk about the issue to actually

address it. But now we're finally

getting a more collective voice

>> talking about it and narrowing down what

the issue is here that we're dealing

with. And they want us to talk about

guns and algorithms and blocking

technology and all this stuff because

it's sexy, it's ambiguous and it keeps

things going. But the reality of the

situation is none of that matters if you

can't tell me the intent of a shape

because that's what a 3D printer makes.

It makes an object and there is no one

object that has legal and illegal

purposes or they all do, I should say.

They let me rephrase that against being

streamed. Objects have legal and illegal

purposes. There's an object that just

has an illegal purpose. It depends what

you do with that. That's the intent of

the object. Like the example I like to

give is saying, you know, if Bob puts a

piece of fish in the microwave, sorry to

all the Bobs out there, but if you put a

piece of the fish,

>> it's the you put a piece of fish in the

microwave and you microwave it, I don't

get mad at the fish or the microwave, I

get mad at Bob because he did the crime.

You know, you shouldn't be doing that.

Just like if I make something I

shouldn't and do something bad. But the

core of this, too, is that all the

crimes in this bill are already illegal.

It's already illegal in California to

manufacture a 3D printed gun. It's

already illegal to make a unserialized

weapon in California.

>> Well, there's a steel it's a steel man

their side. It's illegal to drive drunk,

but people still do it. So, why don't

you just put a blocker in everybody's

car that keeps them from driving drunk

and senses it. She's talking about it's

already illegal to do it, but it's

illegal in the sense that we have to

catch you afterwards versus we stop you

from doing it to begin with.

>> The main problem is that the way that

they want to do it to begin with is is

fundamentally impossible without

destroying the concept of printing a

cylinder. Did you hear something the

assembly member mentioned today

>> about the accuracy? She said, "And we

know that it's not going to be accurate

or perfect in any way

>> that needs to be clipped over and over

again and repeated."

>> Like, isn't the point of doing something

to be accurate? It's like, you know

what? I'm going to make a law and I want

you to abide by it, but you know, maybe

it'll work, sometimes, maybe it won't.

>> I think that's the reason that the moms

demand action phrase or slogan is one

that I despise. They they seem like nice

people, but anytime somebody says,

"Well, somebody do something. Do

something. Do some." Every time somebody

says somebody should do something,

whatever somebody does right after is

usually reactionary, horrible, misses

the mark. But like, well, it's better

than doing nothing, right? Well, no,

because doing nothing actually keeps you

at zero. But doing something bad brings

you negative. Like, you could you could

always go backwards. Well, there what

what was interesting because I spoke to

some of them and what you hear have is a

bill that and I I tried to understand

like where are you coming from because

yeah well we're against gun violence

like absolutely I'm with you there you

know I I fully agree and um and I said

but here is a law that is solving a

problem that doesn't exist so with this

law you're not actually going to reduce

gun violence but you're going to have

states or digital surveillance by a

third party infringing on all kinds of

constitutional rights um and hampering

education, stifling innovation, and

making criminals out of daily makers.

It's like there's, you know, it's it's

you're not saving any lives. You're just

destroying other people's lives in

another way. And I said, why don't you,

you know, like I think it would be wiser

to focus on things that actual, you

know, that on actual gun violence that

actually exist and try to do something

about that. And she says, "If even if we

save just one life, it's worth it." I'm

like,

>> "Cool."

>> It was just it, you know, I'm I'm just

flabbergasted because well, okay, you

know, that's your position. I I I get

it. But it was I was I was kind of

stunned by it in the sense that they

it's so hard for them to oversee what

the potential complications are with it

that even you know spy uh spyware on

everybody's computer or you know on on

on on on your on your printer even that

it doesn't work but whatever it the

complications for uh for for for

entrepreneurs starting and and doing you

know innovating new pieces and like

saying okay you know I almost have my

product ready oh sorry this piece piece

I can't print now my now my project is

not coming together my Kickstarter just

failed whatever it might be um it's no

they can't fathom that they don't know

that world so it's like well at least

we're doing something you know

>> they're not thinking about the idea that

there's there's cost to the things

they're doing I mean you would get rid

of almost all highway deaths if the

speed limit on the highway was 10 miles

an hour's very easy to say well if we we

you can do this and it would stop all

these deaths without if you're not

thinking about any of the negative

externalities and the idea that you

think that Even if this has a 20%

accuracy rate, even if 80 out of a

hundred times it's getting it wrong and

stopping somebody from doing something

useful, or 80 out of a 100 times it lets

the 3D printed gun through. If even we

catch 20 of those 100 3D printed guns,

we're good. But this comes back to the

question of how many times is a 3D

printed gun from your How many times has

somebody printed a 3D printed gun from

your website and it's been featured? Oh,

yeah.

>> In uh in a crime stat like

>> when's the last how many 3D printed

files do you guys sell every day

approximately? If you had a guess,

>> I can't disclose numbers, but the amount

of downloads we have is is in in the

hundreds of thousands, you know.

>> So, like how many zeros then? That's the

question.

>> And millions. So, it's it's the amount

of bad files in between, you know, we

scan every single day. Um, it's we've

never, you know, we do see parts come

through that people want to put up

there. you know, they're not we want to

have a website that is great for

children uh that they can access to and

and and surf on our website without any

problem. Uh but we've never and we

constantly take things down for

intellectual property reasons, for

content policy violations. It can be all

kinds of violations. It's not just about

violence, but we constantly take things

down and uh and actually our community

even helps us with that. But we've never

had a, you know, I've never had any uh

any law enforcement agency call us say,

"Okay, you know, a file that was created

by a designer of yours was used in in in

any kind of crime."

>> So, you sell millions of files on a

regular basis in the amount of times

that you've either had a warrant, a

police officer knock on your door, or it

mentioned in a police file, things.com

made this part with zero.

>> That's never happened. And when we

bought the company, there was nothing in

the due diligence that indicated that

that it was happened prior to it. So,

>> it sounds like a madeup problem then.

>> It is a It is. Well, and it's

interesting because I spoke to one of

those moms for uh for gun violence uh uh

you know, associations and she really

kind of had this idea that you can

magically, you know, create a gun that

you can in one print in one go. And I'm

like, well, the plastic on a home

printer,

you know, you're going to blow your hand

to pieces. It's not going to work. And

by the way, the pieces that are actually

going to work and are functional cannot

be made on a home printer. So, if I had

a $300 Bamboo Labs printer and I tried

to make a gun as a beginner, is it it's

it's going to shoot my hand off or is it

going to shoot the person?

>> Could I answer that one? You want to

answer that one?

>> Let's say I actually could go to your

website and hypothetically speaking,

let's say I could just download

something. I don't know what that

>> No, no, because it's not about that.

It's not about that aspect. Like,

someone could download this. It's you

have to

>> The whole thing is like, you know, this

is the the capital is right behind us.

This is law. This is, you know, legal

ease. We need to really look at the

words that matter here. We have to

define what is a gun. You know, is a gun

a object that fires a projectile and

what that is. Okay, if that's an object

that fires a projectile, then that could

be all sorts of things and then we're

opening it up. But the problem is and I

think a lot of people face this issue

and this is the broader part of this

whole discussion is that people think a

3D printed gun is a ghost gun and a

ghost gun is a 3D printed gun just

because it's like you know it's ubiquous

and and the thing is too is like what

Marleene was talking about was that you

know this aspect that you know they

don't know any better but a lot of us

didn't know anything about 3D printing

at one point and if and the imagery that

every town has been constantly putting

out is very scary that people can press

a button and do something bad but That's

not how the technology works. But

>> you can do it in five minutes.

>> How does the technology work?

>> Yeah. So the technology works is

essentially well let me finish this one

thought and I'll get into that. But like

that the aspect of it is that people

think you know you can do these things

and every town and the assembly members

office and every state that this has

been proposed in they have information

on how the technology works. They have

met with different people. I have met

with them twice and gone over the

fundamentals of how additive

manufacturing works. They have the

information and they're choosing to

ignore it because a clickbait bill gets

them attention. A 3D printer, for those

of you learning about 3D printing and

getting into it, a 3D printer works with

digital files. Since it's a digital

file, that means it's ones and zeros.

That's code. And a machine processes

code and it takes that code. It doesn't

know what the the shape is, what

someone's going to use with the shape or

anything like that. It's just printing

the ones and the zeros. And then the

machine will lay down a layer based on

your geometry. Are we getting a

>> Yeah. Good question.

>> Oh, excellent. So, it'll lay down a

layer and then it'll lay down another

layer and another layer and another

layer. And that's additive

manufacturing. You're adding subtractive

would be CNC where you're carving away.

So, essentially, you're adding and

adding and adding these layers to make

an object. Then you take that object off

the machine and then you do something

with that object. Whether that object is

complete when it's done or it needs

post-processing or work or other things

or maybe parts out of other materials

that remains to be seen. So the

conversation that we're having with it's

kind of like a human version of a

Facebook comment. They're not going to

give you what you want right there in

the moment. So don't have the

conversation that they want. Make them

have your conversation. And that's why I

bring random parts with me. that's why I

have an eyeball in my pocket or

something else or I'll just pick up

something on the ground and say can you

tell me the intent of this shape like

what do you mean I'm like well let's

have this conversation and then you get

their brain thinking differently and

that's part of this but it's such an

uphill battle

>> not accepting the premise of [ __ ] or

having their like make play your game

instead of playing their game

>> yeah it's like war games the only way to

win is to not play the game

>> I think the point here is is that it's

is it this is not a gun law this is this

is a digital surveillance law

>> and if if I look at my company but even

competitive companies and the maker

world you know the the the the maker

community as a whole um there's two

things about it first of all the maker

community is really built on open source

software they freely share files

together they build 3D printers together

you know this has been happening for

many many years and this is how in

innovation is happening because people

are collaborating in an open source way

um and this bill is stifling that the

second part is for instance for me as a

3D designers that come to thanks. You

know, Ths is the platform where people

make real money with selling their

design files or prints of their design

files and they start small, but people

really, you know, start making serious

bucks on this platform and so they make

a living out of this. They entrust us

with their 3D files. They're not mine.

They're their files. We have them on our

servers, but they are entrusted to us.

I'm responsible to keep those files

safe. If they want to sell them to

person X or Y, that can happen. Then we

will deliver the file, but it's not up

to me to do anything with this file. So

giving a third party access for instance

uh to check their files, their

intellectual property, and I don't know

what that third party is going to do

with those files. That's not okay. And

that's why I came today.

>> When you made that comment, he reacted.

I saw them. They looked they looked

like, oh, like something clicked when

you said that.

>> It's just not okay. like I can't I can't

do that that you know that I need to

have permission from my designers uh to

do that. I can't just you know start

saying okay well you know whatever here

you go it's people spend so much time on

these designs they're highquality

designs they they make money with them

either by the subscriptions or by the or

by the prints. doesn't matter, but it's

people's livelihood. And now all of a

sudden it's going to end up on some

server of some third party company that

they don't know just because, you know,

because there of a of a clickbait thing

about let's keep people safe. It's not

keeping people safe and there is no

there there is no 3D printing gun

violence epidemic. It doesn't exist.

>> But the author of the bill didn't even

acknowledge. She didn't even know the

question. I think we got caught up in

the stream earlier, but you were talking

about that that like she was asked a

question and she's like, I don't even

understand the question. So, we're

dealing with an author of a bill that

doesn't fundamentally understand this.

And then I

>> was shocked to hear. Did you see her

response when I said the 3D printer is

is is kind of dumb. I mean, I didn't use

the word dumb, but like it doesn't

understand what it's printing because

because been told go left, go right,

deposit here, deposit there.

>> Yeah. Well, also it's it's this aspect

that like, you know, I met with all

these staffers last week. I came up to

Sacramento. I met with all these

staffers and brought a whole bunch of 3D

printed ones I showed you. You know,

I've got the eyeball. I've got a finger,

the real eye, all these other things,

industrial parts, accessibility parts,

all this stuff. And they were like, some

people had never seen anything 3D

printed before. Absolutely blown away.

Like, wow, you can do this with it, do

this with it, and actually get into it.

And it was wonderful, and it was great.

But then there were other people, these

other staffers, and like, you know, u in

Scott Weiner's office, his staffers are

first robotics alumni. One of them was

the captain of their first robotics team

and he voted yes on this. So either his

staffer didn't say anything to him or he

completely ignored the fact that he has

an expert in his office on this

technology. And I think that needs to be

brought to attention too because the

people that are voting on this are

either ignoring basic logic that

everyone's telling them or something

else is going on because they have

experts in their office. And if for

those you don't know First Robotics, go

look it up. It's in a phenomenal program

and if you go through first robotics

people are going to know. We got some

questions.

>> Another good question here.

>> Why is 3D printing so caught up in this

conversation when CNC seems to be way

more relevant to making

>> Why is CNC caught up? I'm just going to

reread it because why is CNC machines

why is 3D printer caught up in this when

3D when CNC machines seem like they

>> Oh, it's it's sexier. It's so much

sexier to say 3D

>> available. Not everybody has a CNC

machine in their in their basement or in

their you know in their attic. So 3D

>> and the imagery around it too. The

imagery is a kid at home with his 3D

printer and then CNC is like a shop. So

there's aspect they're not talking about

the practicality of this.

>> Oh interesting.

>> That's why it's also I mean it's a

clickbait headline. 3D printing guns are

going to sweep the nation. There's a

crisis. We need to stop this. And also

it paints a very easy solution because

it's digital. So oh we could just put

something on here and stop it and save

all of you. No problem. I'm not the

Michelin man. People keep commenting on

me wearing white pants.

>> It's fine.

>> They don't like your white pants.

>> They're good pants.

>> White pants with dirty XLR cable that I

put in wet dirt that is touching the

white pants. That's criminal.

>> This is production right here.

>> This is This is a Louis Rosman produ

quality production.

>> This is a Louis Rossman joint.

>> There's another good question.

>> Okay.

>> Which one? Question for panel. Does this

law target just home 3D printers or

could it hamper operations of commercial

machu?

>> Ah,

>> both.

>> Both. All of them. Oh, you want to ask

the question?

>> Yeah. So, could would this uh just mess

with your home 3D printers or would this

mess Yeah.

>> Does this law target just home 3D

printers or could it hamper operations

of commercial machines like the machines

use that use additive metal

manufacturing? I think the point that

somebody made is that if you're a

licensed gun manufacturer in in

California and you use uh and you use 3D

printers, you would not be able even

though you have a license to produce

guns, you're still not able to do it

anymore if you were to use 3D printers

anywhere in your uh in your machine

lineup.

>> Wait, are they asking for guns or in

general? What was the question about? Is

this affect just home 3D printers or

industrials? Is that what

>> Yeah, they they wanted to know what the

industrial effect is.

>> So So the interesting thing is this

affects all 3D printers because it's a

law. But what the author is trying to do

is create these carveouts for certain

industries so these industries won't

fight the bill and that's part of their

tactic. That's why they said medical

aerospace. That's why Noah and from

Loheed Martin is up here banging their

fists on the table because they they're

going to be a carveout. And then after

one of my meetings with them, they

amended the bill to add this bid about

uh the entertainment industry. But then

they only included one sentence and said

>> prop makers.

>> Yeah. for prop which is great because

they say it's prop makers for a 3D

printer made exclusively for propm and

that's not a thing. There is not a 3D

printer that's just for props. That is

that is that does not exist and that

will never exist.

>> So they're doing these carveouts and

stuff to try to throw things in there.

But

>> put this a little closer if you can.

>> Okay, there we go. But um by doing that,

by you know doing these carveouts, what

they're trying to do is you know create

these exemptions for other people but

they're doing so ambiguously because now

in this bill it says a prop house or

prop studio can be exempt. So I'm a prop

house. Are you a prop studio? Are you a

prop studio? Everyone can be a prop

house now because I had a buddy make

some stuff for Star Wars out of his

garage and they used it in the film and

he was a prop maker and he runs a small

shop. So I guess

>> Shapeways. Yeah, Shapeways.

>> You're going to jail.

>> Better watch out. They're going to come

get you.

>> Okay. Well, um I'm in New York. I'm

>> desktop CNC are becoming

>> Yeah. What are some other questions?

>> The people that are voting to ban 3D

printing are either misinformed or have

an agenda.

>> Yes.

>> Well, okay. The what we found was Every

Town is behind uh the Mom's Man action

thing and Bloomberg is behind the Every

Town thing. So, what is Bloomberg's

personal investment in 3D printing guns

being banned?

>> I don't know. I have never met him.

>> Like, what that's that was my question.

Like, there was this one comment that

got a lot of hearts, which is like he's

lived his life as an [ __ ] and he

knows what's coming and he wants to

prevent it from happening or something.

I don't even Is it that sinister?

>> I don't control freak thing or is it so

what is the actual agenda behind it? Cuz

at first I thought it was like a

manufacturing thing, which is if we can

make 3D printing suck, then maybe uh

some sort of major manufacturer who's

being challenged by the fact that people

can now 3D print bike parts or 3D print

something else would make from it. Uh

the companies that make the software, I

did a lot of looking into that to see if

they had done any sort of lobbying on

it, and they didn't. Uh there was that

that what was the name of FNA? Figma

Figma, FSNA. I did a lot of looking into

that this morning, and they it doesn't

like they haven't registered as a

lobbyist on any of these bills in any of

these states. Like that would make sense

to me if the company that makes the

software that claims that we can tell if

a gun is being 3D printed is now the

company that's spending hundreds of

thousands of dollars to get this passed.

That would be an easy story and it would

click.

>> Well, but that's not I couldn't find any

evidence of that whatsoever.

>> Well, there's not going to be evidence

of that. But we do know that there's

people from that company in Washington

DC all the time and they've been trying

to sell this and

>> he rep show up today. I heard somebody

say

>> he was from he was from FSNA. the guy

that went up there and talked and he

even said we this is this can be used in

this field, this field, this field.

They're trying to sell something. And

essentially what this bill, it came up

because every town has done other gun

control. They're actually behind the

bills here in California that made 3D

printing uh guns and um doing this

illegal, which everyone is fine about

because no one's argued it and it's

fine. It's moved on. But they're also

behind this now. So essentially what I

think they've done is they've kind of

had, you know, the tail wag the dog a

bit where they created this crazy

cockami bill and other people are like,

"Oh, look at this crazy bill. I can fit

my narrative into this too." And I don't

know about the Bloomberg connection. I

mean, I don't know anything other than

he started the he put a big investment

into this like $40 million or something

in 2014 or something.

>> Yeah. And there were also years where

they raised 80 million to $90 million

and people there said that he was 20 to

30% of their funding that year. So it

was way way more than just the original

50th.

>> Yeah. Yeah, I I I don't know information

on that so I can't really speak to that.

So, but I just know that like I see a

pattern happening right now and you know

>> it's you know like today there was

another bill sponsored by the same

author and she I think she's just trying

to score points politically and and and

pass laws that sound sexy because I mean

I'm against gun violence so you know I

you know if I wouldn't dive into the

actual uh uh law I would go like yeah

yeah I want that and so what what

happened. She also had proposed an AI

law where she protects um where she says

okay I want to protect creative people

and creators to um from from from their

creativity being stolen and being you

know used by Gen AI generative AI uh and

then they don't know it's being used you

know to feed these models so they want

to it was a transparency act and she was

really quite passionate in a way about

oh I really want to support the creator

you know the creative economy which is

this economy, you know, maker maker the

maker space. I think it's more support.

>> I don't think she I think she just cares

about doing what's popular. So, that's

funny because that makes no sense

because like for the first bill, she's

basically saying, I love the creator

economy and the creative economy and all

those people think now and and we're

going to protect them against big tech.

And now she goes with the next law. She

says, um, well, um, f you creator

economy. I'm going to use big tech to

surveil you all. like it's like it

doesn't make any sense. There's no

consistency there.

>> I think like it's the consistency I

think to her is that in the state that

has more creative jobs by percentage

likely than any other state in the US,

it makes sense to push a bill that

support that seems like it supports

creators. And then also the number of

people who are here this bill is against

guns and gun violence in California is

far greater than the population of 3D

printing nerds in the state of

California. So like she she is doing

what is popular and these are two issues

that are that are are both popular. I

see your point which is that they're

both [ __ ] on like the one is

supposed to help creators and the other

would actually [ __ ] on creators. That

makes sense in that logical sense. I

think she's just looking at it from the

sense of what is popular and like

>> her job is to get elected.

>> Yes.

>> Yeah. And one is using

big tech to to pound down on people and

the other one is saying oh big tech is

dangerous like which like pick a lane.

>> Yeah. I think well FSA she she doesn't

think FSNA is dangerous. Send all of

your prints to FSNA and all of them to

Bamboo.

>> Yeah. My god. Um I think that's really

interesting too that you know we're

having this discussion about you know

how the funding is taking place on this

and where things are going but

essentially this idea that 3D printers

can do this thing. And we talked about

industrial earlier too. It will affect

industrial companies with these

carveouts. Like there's the the thing is

is like you know you held that top that

I gave you where I showed you earlier.

It's made out of pure titanium. You know

you can 3D print titanium and I can give

you something about the size of that top

in your hand and it's going to cost $60

$80 or something like that for that one

print and it's going to be done on a

machine that costs $500,000 or something

like that and then I can make this

thing. Now that can be a 3D printed gun

barrel very easily. It's titanium. It

could withstand all that stuff over and

over again. But no one targeted this

bill has a machine like that. If you

listen to the language, they say

14-year-old boys. They pointed at

teenage boys because they think that's

an easy image. They're focusing on

images to give you. They say

>> Bitcoin millionaires, teenage Bitcoin

millionaires from game Wall Street Bets

are going to buy that machine.

>> Sure. Yeah. Right. That Yeah. Start

manufacturing that. Yeah. And then they

have to get the materials which cost an

insane amount of money, too.

>> It's not just printing a machine. You

have a whole freaking

>> You need a clean room, too. Oh, you need

a clean room if you had access to around

the machine needed in order to get

everything going.

>> If you have access to a half a million

dollar machine, you probably just have

access to somebody who can just drive to

Virginia and get you a gun.

>> Yeah. And that's the thing, too, is

like, you know, all these aspects of

these other conversation.

>> What's going on?

>> Oh, it's fine.

>> Oh, yeah. There's all these aspects of

like what we can do and what we should

do. But I think the really neat thing

was that today in the hearing we had

a bill go forward and then they had

their metos come up and speak and it was

people from every town the people that

wrote the kakami bill. It was from mom's

demand action this fringe group of

people that refused to read and then you

have the Brady organization on top of

that. You know, two people came up for

that. That was it. And three

organizations and the company FSNA are

the only ones willing to come up here

and support this bill. But in

opposition, we had a huge group of

people from all different backgrounds.

It wasn't everyone from the same company

coming up there and talking. We had

people from, you know, from aerospace,

from defense there. We had

entertainment, we had Voron, we had OC

MakerFair. Obviously Marlene is here

from Shapeways and Things 3D and we had

all these other creators out there and

these other people that I'd never met

before and they were coming out. Oh, I

support this. And we had people from,

you know, your fan base out here, you

know, showing up because they

>> we had somebody from the Department of

War.

>> Yeah. Oh, that's right. The Department

of Defense. I will not call it that.

>> Oh, yeah. Well, that's what he said.

>> Yeah. And uh and all that, but they were

um there to support this because they

realized the bill is garbage. And that

was the really interesting thing I saw

was that people came up and I met one

guy. He said, "I saw this on the bill I

read in the news. cuz I knew this was

garbage. I had to come up and do

something. And it was really inspiring

to me. And you know, having you fly out

is amazing. I mean, you fly from New

York has been amazing. Inspiring. But

then seeing these other people too, like

they care. And that's what this is

about. And I think the people in office

like to make it seem complicated or

things don't get done and you know,

nothing happens. But like we made

progress. We've been knocking teeth out

of the bill. We've obviously got RBK.

You know, we're living rentree in her

head now because she saw you and her

face dropped. She was like, "What?

I was like, "What?" Well, and I and I

fall on

>> I do leave my house. I'm not a YouTuber

that just yells and doesn't leave his

house.

>> No, he's not in California. It's a It is

a beautiful year in Sacramento right

now.

>> I miss traveling to legislative

hearings. This is fun. I'll be back next

week if I can.

>> You can. All right.

>> I'm getting sued by another company, so

I have to look into that. But if I make

time around that, I am going to I want

to make time to come back here.

>> We'll get you a bigger uh bigger room.

No, but I think uh you know between I

think the the movement against this is

gaining steam thanks to thanks to you

thanks to both of you and I I personally

came out here um

>> to kind to help pitch my effort in to

help the maker community as a whole uh

and protect them against this and I hope

this energizes other companies out there

to uh to do their thing as well because

I think we need more companies out there

who are willing to take a stand. D I

completely agree. For those you don't

know this, Marlene is the CEO of ThS3D.

Go to things.com right now on your

computer while you're watching and check

it out so you can see what they do. And

uh also Shapeways. Go check out

Shapeways as well. And she's a CEO of

those companies. She lives in New York.

We're in California. She flew out to

come out here and speak on behalf of

this. And that is I mean it's just

amazing. Absolutely amazing to do that.

the conversations we've had leading up

to here about, you know, contributing to

the logic behind this and making sure we

have a solid fight and all of that. I

think that's so important and I really

encourage other executives. There were

other executives in other industries

that came here, but in the 3D printing

industry, I've reached out to all of

them and only one CEO has been posting

on his from a big company is uh Tuan

from uh Fibers on LinkedIn. He has been

posting about this avidly and I've

reached out other CEOs. Um, Puscha has

helped. They've stepped in. Uh, West 3D

has. A lot of companies are posting on

their socials now. And that's great. And

I think what we're also doing is we're

warming people up to what they need to

do because this is all new for people,

too.

>> I think Yeah, a lot of more people need

to understand that if they talk and

speak up about this, that a it's

necessary. You have to do this work if

you want to continue your profession.

And B, if you do, you're not going to

immediately have your head chopped off.

Like, I remember when I was dealing with

with with Bamboo and Powell. Powell did

not want to release his software. He did

not want to spread it. There were zero

forks of it. So, I posted it. I said,

"Here, uh, if I sue me, best of luck."

And then they had 6,000 forks within two

days. So sometimes you need one person

to stand up and then not get shot down

for everybody else to decide to stand

up. And like by us doing this and

showing up here and you not getting

branded a 3D printing terrorist, I think

there are so many people that just being

real, there are so many people that

don't want to be branded as a like the

gun guy or like the 3D printed gun

person. So they don't want to be they

want that to be their brand and that's

why I appreciate what you're doing which

when you say what is the intention of

this shape. So you just kind of take the

conversation away from guns. I'm asking

gun questions cuz I'm curious because

I'm totally ignorant about 3D printing.

But I appreciate that when you have the

conversation you keep it away from that

to demonstrate that a you can actually

make progress in pushing back against

the bill since you've had it amended

several times which is awesome. You can

be B, you can get people to show up and

C, you can keep it so that all the

people that show up don't get branded

as, you know, these are the people that

want to carry an AR-15 to the park that

they 3D printed because there are gun

enthusiasts that are against this bill

on Second Amendment grounds. But there's

also a ton of people that are against

this bill that are very for gun control

because it has nothing to [ __ ] do

with that. And more people need to stand

up and and realize, oh, so that guy

stood up and he is not branded some

psychotterrorist. Maybe I'll show up to

the next. And it also shows next week,

you know, the ACLU is going to be there

and and do a testimony next to David. I

mean, that speaks to itself. The fact

that I mean, I would have never thought

that in my lifetime I would be involved

in something where the ACLU agrees with

the NRA

>> and that I would be uh that I would be

okay with, you know, being being aligned

with the NRA. It's like it's it's that's

that that is just I could have never

thought that. Don't worry about the

live.

>> So there's this this is a question that

I wish I had an answer to, but I don't

because I'm not a I'm not a big gun

person. Uh like I don't know as a lot

about it. For any international viewers,

could you ask about the dynamic around

the prevalence of and ease of access to

legal guns versus manufactured guns in

America?

>> Oh, can I take this one?

>> I don't have knowledge on that, so I

can't give a good answer, but

>> awesome. I tired, Steve. Okay,

>> I need a nap.

>> I didn't I didn't have my nap. Uh yeah.

Um

>> so here's a really fun study. Um, and

this is from our friends at Every Town,

and I get to use their study right now.

And this is gorgeous.

>> I feel like grinning already. Something

good is coming out.

>> All right. So, Every Town did their

study. They didn't mention in this

hearing, and I kind of expected them to

say, but they use the stat that this

epidemic has gotten a thousand% worse.

And it's a thousand times more of these

things out in the world. And it's from

the study that was done. So, I'm a nerd.

So, I looked into the numbers and I

wanted to see this study up close. I

started digging around. Well, the stud

is a little different. And when you look

at the numbers, uh, every town did a

study and at the beginning of the study,

they found, uh, 30 3D printed items

found at the scene of a crime. They

don't say what those items are, but 30

3D printed items found at the scene of a

crime. Then a couple years later, or

whenever the study completed, it was 300

items found at the scene of a crime. 1

to 10 is a,000%. 30 to 300 is a,000%. I

3D print hundreds of things all the time

that are objects. They don't say what

they are or what they were used for or

how they were found or anything like

that. And they use that number to scare

everyone. But the really fun thing is

that from 2024

to 2025, when they're talking about the

most recent crazy stats, 300 parts being

found, there were almost 400,000

guns found at the scene of a crime.

According to the ATF last year, 400,000

guns found at the scene of a crime. Zero

100% 3D printed guns.

>> So why are we here?

>> Surveillance

trying to get attention.

Like what's she what's what's the bill?

The bill does nothing. It's a it's a it

creates things to be illegal to then

create a crime. And they also took the

power away from the Department of

Justice on this too.

>> How?

>> Well, they said now in the bill, the

most recent version of it says that if

I'm a 3D printing company, I have to

attest. I have to self attest. So I say,

"My 3D printer does not do the bad thing

that you want it to do, so it can be

sold in California." And they say,

"Okay, that's great because the

Department of Justice is going to pick a

standard that they want to use." One of

the ones referenced in the latest um was

the standards and measurements out of

Pennsylvania, that institute out there.

They don't do anything for firearms. So

they just want a standard that the DOJ

is going to say, "Go for it." And then

that's it. That's all you have to do.

And then if something bad happens, then

it's all retroactive. Originally, the

bill wanted the Department of Justice to

invest taxpayer money to develop

technology that would create software to

do this. Then it went through

appropriations and the Department of

Justice said this had that's not a

thing. And by the way, this bill might

cause a ton of First Amendment

violations like prior restraint and

compelled speech. And it got amended

again and took more out of it, more out

of it, and now we're here. So this bill

is essentially uninforceable at this

point, but it's still in name out there

and that's the problem.

>> And there's a new one in Delaware.

>> Yeah. Which is the home to Printed

Solid.

>> Prussa,

>> which is Prusha.

>> That's

>> in America.

>> There's so much work to do.

>> Yeah. There's a lot of work to do here.

I'm really excited about it.

>> A lot of people have to start showing

up.

>> Yeah. Well, I think that's the thing,

too, is people should realize like

you're not going to be called anything

bad. Nothing. you saw today there was

the more logic you bring into the

situation like anything like I used to

hate math and then once I got into math

it made life so much easier because it's

black and white like this is a shape

right this is what I used in the hearing

I don't know if it'll work on camera

here but essentially that probably looks

like a heart to you on camera a little

bit and then I rotate it 180 and now it

probably looks like a probably looks

like a starish little bit more tilt a

little more tilt

>> there you go

all right there you go and then the

other way It's hard, but again, it's a

shape. It's an object. This is not

illegal. This is not bad. This is not

doing anything bad. But if I take this

and I smash someone in the head with it,

it is doing something bad. But there's

no jail for this. There's jail for me.

>> Someone did ask

>> Yeah.

>> I wanted Yes.

>> That was metal.

>> If this was metal, ah,

>> we were speaking with a staffer.

>> Ah,

>> Ethan Ethan and I were speaking to

staffer afterwards and he talked about

he asked about your object. They said,

"Well, wasn't because he was we were

talking about metal printing because he

was really worried about metal

printing." I said, "You need, you know,

you need you need a million dollars to

set up, you know, to set up decent metal

printing in any factory." So, like a

15-year-old teenage boy is not going to

do that. And he said, "But but the thing

that David had that was metal." I said,

"No, that was polyactic acid.

>> It's cornbased plastic, boy. Straight

from my buddies at Poly Maker. You know,

Poly Maker making us plastic that you

can make cool stuff with." That's my

Polymaker voice. But yeah, that's that's

part of the absurdity of it. Like

literally, he just saw a hearing, didn't

ask any questions about the object,

instead decided to internalize the

information that he thought he knew

himself and acted on it, and then had a

meeting with you after the hearing.

>> I'm glad he asked.

>> Well, me, too.

>> But it's like, look at this. Like, they

they don't even want to ask the

questions because they know they're

cooked,

>> I think. I don't know. I'm not a

politician. I'm just a nerd with a

microphone. But to go back to that

staffer, it was interesting. But because

I told him, I said, "Look, you know,

said, "Why did you uh why did you vote?"

Yes. You know, why did your senator vote

yesterday? He says, "Well, we because

we're against Oh, I think I said this

already. Because we're against gun

violence." I'm like, "Yeah, I agree,

too." Uh but uh you know, I'm also

against gun violence. Very much so. But

this law does nothing does not solve gun

violence in any shape, way, or form. And

it just creates a whole lot of

downstream issues.

>> Yeah.

>> And and he just and then and then I

asked him, I said, "What do you think,

you know, is the the biggest cause of

gun violence in your uh in your in your

area? You know, the consistency that you

represent?" And he's like, "I don't

know, but I think it's I think it's g

gang violence." Is you and do you know

any stats about how 3D printing is used

there? He says, "No, I don't." And then

and then I was asked to supply

information, you know, because he has

the Every Town for Gun Safety. That's

what I assume. It's my assumption. He's

got the stats from the oppos from the

opposing party. So, he said, "You have

to come with proof that it, you know,

you you shouldn't just tell me that it's

not a problem. You have to bring me the

statistics." So, we're going to actually

email them to him because,

>> you know, they're turning it around.

Like, now we have to prove it's not a

problem. Said, "No, the other party

should actually prove that it is a

problem."

>> They're the ones that are looking to

invade your privacy by having you upload

customer files or upload your own files

to somebody else's private server.

Yeah. Or put that person's technology on

your system because also

>> part of

>> I mean I can't imagine his position. I

mean they're getting 10,000 bills a day.

I mean it's horrible. Like I mean how

can you be a specialist in every single

thing? It's so hard.

>> All right. Yeah. But his job is to do

that, you know, and um

>> I forgot what I was just about to say

anyway.

>> Well, he should do the job that he's

getting paid for.

>> Yeah. I mean that's definitely it. Um

there was something else. I had a train

of thought. It'll come to me tomorrow or

later today.

>> No, sorry.

>> My train of thought is about to end.

>> Yeah. There's a question u regarding the

standards that um proposed standards

that that compared against.

>> Yes.

>> And so it's basically another question.

Is there any requirement for whatever

standard being available to the public

or will just be a hot

standard?

>> So it I I'm trying to remember the

acronym. Is it ATSM? Is that the

association?

>> ASM.

>> ASM. Sorry. ASM. That's who they want to

have

use their standards. That's what they

said in the bill. In their amended bill,

it mentions using their standards. Like

go read the amended bill. It's got blue

text. You can go see the whole thing on

it. But they mention using them or other

like organizations to produce standards

that the Department of Justice can just

adopt. But that's not a thing because it

doesn't exist. So you're that's why this

whole thing falls apart. Like you ask

someone to do a thing that isn't a thing

and they do a thing that they can't do

and then you ask them to create

something that's not possible. It's all

It's all

>> a meme.

>> Smok and mirrors. It's like hopeless in

dreams. Like I don't know what we're

talking about here because none of it's

real.

>> Don't let your memes be dreams.

>> On that note,

>> do you have another question?

>> I'm out of questions and I'm also out of

brain.

>> All right. I want to say one last thing

if I can.

>> Go for it.

>> On this thing before we wrap up.

>> Um the the coolest thing about today was

seeing everyone come out and I've said

this before, but it really was nice.

It's like it was a good day and it, you

know, we sat there, we got to listen to

other stuff going on, but then we all

got to vote with our voices and say

something and that's all recorded. And

the look on the author and other faces

when they kept seeing people come

through that door from different

backgrounds and again another person,

another person, no, no, no. On the quite

relentless,

>> like it was relentless. I told them I

was not messing around with this. I

said, "Look, we're going to come with it

if you don't like understand this." And

as you can see, even with all the people

that did show up, it wasn't enough.

Which means next week there has to be

more. So I fully expect everybody

subscribed to this channel, all 2 and a

half million of you, you're going to

come to California. You're going to go a

deal with everybody that came. I said,

"Everybody who was here today, make sure

next week you have three people instead

of your instead of yourself."

>> I created a Zulip server for people who

I wanted to create a Zulip server for

the people who show up. Do I have a

separate server for the people that are

what I would call like pre-selected as

in you actually made the effort to show

up already and we have it segmented out

by city, state, areas so that when these

types of laws pop up, we can activate

people and immediately have them show up

when there's an anti-ownership law to

push back against or a pro ownership law

to push in favor of if you agree with

the law that is. And I hope to see at

the very least more people next week

here than there were this week cuz

that's the only way you're going to get

rid of this. Like the New York one

passed, there's one that popped up in

Delaware. They're not going to stop.

They're not going to stop until

everything connects to the internet and

ask for permission.

>> Please, may I print my flashlight?

>> What are you going to do with that

flashlight, Sunny Boy?

>> I just want to shine a light on the

politician's briefcase to show where

their money's coming from.

>> That's worse than printing a gun.

>> You're going down, son.

>> But also, it could print a gun. Like,

serious, that's the world that we're

moving to. It's just like one little

piece at a time. And at what point do

people need to realize that if they

don't speak up about this, even if you

don't have a 3D printer, that something

that you do have, they're going to make

connect to the internet and the

manufacturer is not going to be doing

that for your benefit. It's just going

to keep getting worse and worse and

worse until people start showing up to

try and make it better and better and

better. And I believe that people have

the ability to make it better and better

and better. That's why I show up here. I

figure they have a better they have

better cameras there than I do. I show

up at my little [ __ ] up ass camera rig

and my my uh You ever watch Sanford and

Sun?

>> Of course. You know that the truck from

Sanford and Sun, much too young to have

seen that, but like the truck on Sanford

and Sun was such an absolute piece of

[ __ ] Like this is an early '7s show.

Like my I bring this Sanford and Sun

setup here every time because I I want

to try and get more people to actually

show up with me. And that's the whole

point. Huh? Can we name your camera

wheezy?

>> You can name my camera wheezy.

>> All right, I will name your camera.

>> I like that in the honeymooners. I like

really old TV. But the whole point of

this is to get more as many people to

show up as possible and to feel like

it's not actually hopeless or worthless

because that's the only way you do

anything. If everybody thinks that it's

hopeless or worthless or I'm going to

harm my reputation by being there, then

nobody shows up. When nobody shows up,

things get worse. When things get worse,

people think, "Oh god, it's so bad.

There's no point in trying." But then

you just kind of create this

self-fulfilling prophecy. And I want to

try and turn it around. He does, too. So

does she.

>> So do I. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> So do that. It

>> was a good day, guys.

>> Yeah. Very good day.

>> I'm ready for more.

>> I'm ready for more, too.

>> Heck yeah.

>> I want to get more dirt more dirty looks

from more California senators and

assembly people.

>> Oh, dude. We're going to get some next

next week's going to be wild cuz that's

public safety and I've already met with

some of the public safety uh advisers

and teams and stuff. It's going to be a

very different weekend next

>> I got some dirty looks today. I can't

wait to get some more next week.

>> Oh man, I'm going to make all sorts of

friends.

>> I thought it was glorious. It

>> was so good. It's so nice. I mean,

that's the fun, right? Like that's part

of the fun is like fighting for

something when you know you're right.

It's not this ambiguous thing. It's

literally right here in my hand. Like

it's right here. This microphone you're

holding.

>> Like it's it's here. You can win. Like

come out for us. We can all win

together.

>> Yes, I look forward to it.

>> You can kill someone with pizza.

>> Yes, you can kill someone with pizza.

>> Depends what you put in it. If you put

gas station heroin in the pizza.

>> Gas station.

>> I learned something.

>> That was an earlier bill that we learned

all about today.

>> Confused about this.

>> Oh, by the way, also if you do come,

there's other bills being heard and you

get to learn about all sorts of other

interesting things going on in the state

of California. I will note that uh yeah,

next week is going to be a long one.

It's the last hearing before their

break. Um, but public safety will be a

very interesting session. I think

>> this is fun. Thank you for having me

here.

>> Pleasure.

>> Thank you for teaching me things.

>> Thank you.

>> See you in the next one. I'm going to

hit the off button.