we've created a world that's very

dangerous right now I think we are on

the brink of a possible Extinction deep

October right here one of the world's

biggest experts on health Wellness Time

magazine's one of the top 100 icons of

the centuries also written 93 books when

you look at the direction of travel as a

civilization what advice do we need now

what agree stress Humanities problems

come from our inability to sit quietly

and do nothing

you're always doing doing doing we have

human doings we're not human beings

anymore take some time every day to be

unoccupied ask yourself who am I what do

I want and what is my purpose people

don't ask these questions they only know

that they suffer and they want an

immediate solution which is you know

something like a antidepressant and

that's what we've created

every experience shapes our biology when

you look at the situation do you see an

adversity or an opportunity how is this

determined by your childhood if your

parents were complaining condemning

criticizing playing the victim you will

see every situation as an adversity can

be changed yes how there are actually

many studies on what is called the

happiness equation number one is

this is your 93rd book if you were to

write one last book what would be the

Top Line message I hate to use this word

it's misinterpreted but the title would

be

before this episode starts I have a

small favor to ask from you two months

ago 74 of people that watch this channel

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enjoy this episode

[Music]

as I was reading through

your work a certain word came up over

and over again and it was the word

purpose

um so I wanted to start this really by

asking you

what is your purpose what mission are

you on you've written I'm hearing this

is your 93rd book

if there is an umbrella

that one could call your purpose what

would it be

for the last uh

35 years

I've used our non-profit

Foundation Chopra foundation with the

the mission statement of reaching a

critical mass of people

in my mind a billion people

per personal and social transformation

for a more peaceful just sustainable

healthier and joyful world so those

words are very carefully chosen peaceful

sustainable healthier

just

and joyful

so everything

is under that umbrella going back to the

start of your story

um

what do I need to you know that profound

purpose that mission you've been on for

the last 30 plus years

where does that stem from what's the

earliest sort of domino that fell to put

you on course to

to pursue that as your life's work

i s I trained in Internal Medicine and

then Endocrinology which is a study of

hormones

and then I went on to

study neuroscience and

neuroendocrinology I saw the

relationship

between what happens in our

consciousness

and particularly emotions

and how that affects our biology as a

physician I was

always impressed by how giving

information to a patient affected their

metabolism

you know if I told somebody you had

cancer just the word cancer you could

see immediately their blood pressure go

up

the heart rate speed up their platelets

get sticky

and you know a whole Cascade of events

in their biology which was

essentially inflammation and propensity

to disease just hearing bad news and

interpreting it and having an emotional

response to it

I remember giving that nurse to a

patient and then immediately realizing

that I'd made a mistake I was reading

the wrong chart

so I immediately apologized and I saw

his biology changed

in a moment

and now

you know 40 years later we realized that

every experience you have every

experience doesn't matter what the

experiences could be

emotional but it could be food it could

be sleep it could be exercise it could

be

breathing or yoga but right now this

conversation you know we're

having this conversation and you and I

are exchanging information

in our frontal cortex of the brain and

genes are going on to facilitate the

neural networks

that make this happen but then there are

people listening to us maybe hundreds of

thousands their brains are being

activated

so I realized that you know you couldn't

localize the mind you know if you ask a

neuroscientist

conventional neuroscientists where is

the mind

they'll point to their brain but the

brain only has the neural correlates of

the Mind the Mind itself you can't

localize it's both embodied

it's a relational and embodied process

so you know the mind doesn't exist by

itself it exists in relationship to

other Minds

so it's relational

and embodied in the brain but in your

biology and it regulates the flow of

energy and information in our bodies and

in the ecosystem of relationships

now

if

our identity fundamental identity which

is

that of the separate self

is which is a socially induced

hallucination in my opinion because the

separate self doesn't exist period

but that

hallucination or that idea of the

separate self

creates anxiety

it also creates anger because of trauma

in the past

so anger is nothing but

remembering the memory of trauma

hostility is the desire to get even

anxieties the anticipation of trauma

again in the future

blaming yourself is guilt and guilt

leads to humiliation humiliation and the

combination of everything I've said

leads to depression which is the number

one pandemic of our time not kovid

depression stress hostility resentment

that causes inflammation so you know

suddenly I had this idea

that if we went back to some of the

wisdom traditions of the world

that said our essential nature is

as the Buddhists say inter beingness

we are you know famous statement of

technotron we are inter beings that

interrise in the inter isness there's no

isolated self

and but that isolated fearful self has

created the trauma

that we see in the world that that

actually manifests as War terrorism ego

destruction greed leaders who are only

interested in power mongering influence

peddling cronyism corruption and their

own self-interest

so we've created a world that's that's

actually

um

pretty dangerous right now and

I thought in my naive Day about

35 40 years ago

if we had something that could actually

collectively

shift Consciousness and actually I was

one of the founders of an association

called Alliance for a new Humanity

and we had people from Civil Society

lawyers attorneys

people from the United Nations with this

idea that we could reach a critical mass

of people

for a more peaceful just sustainable

healthier and joyful world

but even the organization faltered

because there was Schism within the

organization you know people

again power mongering and fighting

within the organization for dominance or

or you know leadership in a very selfish

way so the organization

folded

it didn't go anywhere I decided to

continue on my own

so when you talk about this separated

self you're referring to Identity I'm

referring to identity identity which is

you know I did our crisis today and has

been of identity

an identity on a personal level is this

the person you know this story that I

tell myself about who I am and that I

accept about myself correct and for a

country they have their own identity

they accept that they are the United

States of America and we are this and

this is who we are correct and then that

causes separation and a disconnectedness

you talked about how you created an

organization to try and combat this and

get to that critical mass and then the

organization itself failed which makes

me think is this not just innate in

humans that we are

greedy selfish powermongering corrupt

at our core it's been our Evolution

since hunter-gatherer times

and it got worse in the Industrial Age

and then

I think

um it got even worse with

within the wars you know the first world

war second world war but if you read

history the history is one of violence

ever since human beings have existed

other species are violin too but not

not in the way we are for power or for

money

or for

um this idea of uh you know extreme

nationalism which is a form of tribalism

in my opinion or the whole history of

colonialism is just that and now we've

reached a point with the information age

where

you know it's kind of

nothing is secret anymore and yet

um

the intensity of what's happening in the

world look what's happening in Ukraine

or right now what's happening in

Pakistan or what's happening in India or

what's happening in Korea look at any

place in the world maybe you live a few

places like New Zealand or you know Bali

or a couple of places like that the rest

of the world is is actually in extreme

turmoil so we have medieval Minds

and modern capacities now that is not a

good combination a medieval mind

restricted to a little area in medieval

times

caused Havoc there but now

globally that medieval mind that tribal

mind and our modern capacities it's a

terrible combination

everybody everybody listening to this

now in some way is suffering yes in some

way yes everyone's suffering is slightly

different but if you zoom out far enough

it's pretty much all the same to some to

some degree yeah

um

if you had a you know a young person

come to you and they were I don't know

they don't even have to be young 16

years old maybe 30 maybe 45 and you had

to give them some broad advice on how to

suffer less for the remainder of their

life

what advice would you give them

you know

we've reached a stage in our Evolution

where people don't ask these questions

they only know that they suffer and they

want an immediate solution which is you

know something like an antidepressant or

whatever

and that's what we've created with the

materialistic interpretation of the

universe wisdom Traditions tell us we

suffer because in that fact in the

Eastern wisdom tradition we serve five

causes not knowing who we are number one

not knowing the nature of reality

no isolated self clinging and grasping

at experience which is ephemeral

you know

experiences ephemeral it's transient it

you can't catch it like regret or

it's experience you know if I ask you

you can't hold on to this experience if

I asked you what happened to your

childhood you say it's a dream but if I

asked you what happened to last night

it's a dream what happened to this

morning is a dream what happens to these

words by the time you hear them they

don't exist

and me trying to cling on to that so let

me try juggling on that then we also

recoil from that if it's unpleasant we

confuse ourselves with our ego identity

which is socially induced and we fear

death those are the five causes of

suffering so wisdom Traditions say you

have to figure out what is reality and

when you figure out what is reality and

you can't do that at 16 unless you're

being groomed you know in in wisdom

Traditions you were groomed

for wisdom

and that started

what we call self-education which is

what yoga is by the way yoga means Union

with the self

misinterpretation of yoga as this is

just the physical postures but the eight

limbs of yoga are all intended to find

your true self so there are principles

of social intelligence emotional

intelligence

physical posture breathing techniques

withdrawal of the senses focused

awareness meditation Transcendence

once you get to these last three

aspects of yoga Transcendence is the key

you find out who you really are the self

which knows the self not Bamboozled by

social constructs

so let's go through those five things

number one not doing reality reality is

not local it's infinite so so what do I

need to understand then to avoid that

form of suffering I need to understand

that it's not localized and therefore

that means that you are infinite

you're at one level I'm everything and

nothing and everything and nothing and

actually you experience love love not as

a sentiment but the in ineffable

interconnectedness with all that exists

people have those experiences with

psychedelics these days or you can

actually give somebody an experience

like that with even VR

because we are already in a VR number

two number two clinging grasping that

which is ungraspable every experience is

ungraspable so the awareness of an

experience is not the experience

the awareness of a thought is not a

thought

the awareness of a thought is

independent of the thought if you

identify with the awareness instead of

the thought which is like a cloud going

through the sky

you don't

either attach yourself to it or you

don't identify with it takes training

so you know and in the rig Veda let

Noble thoughts come to me from every

side because your thoughts are not your

production your thoughts are socially

constructed and there's there's recycle

through you and yet we identify with

them so number two is identifying with

that which is

ephemeral transient ungraspable number

three

on number two we so we need to

not attach not associate with thoughts

not associate with experiences in order

to be free you can associate with them

but you're not

attached or identified to them you can

associate with thoughts so if you've had

a trauma in your early life or something

or you've been through something not so

good or you've been dumped by your

boyfriend and then we would identify

with that and actually that

epigenetically by the way that's

intergenerational now we know that you

know in the Holocaust for example during

the invasion of the Netherlands

by Nazi Germany there were a lot of

there was famine amongst the Jews and

now three generations four generations

after that

the people's descendants who were

traumatized they have diabetes because

somewhere in their body there's a memory

of famine so they're holding on to

carbohydrates they have insulin

resistance Etc if you take a mouse and

you expose it to a smell that it likes

for example lavender

and then you give it to my electrical

shock

for Seven Generations the mice will be

fearful

of that particular smell I've been to a

cow Farm in Hawaii where they used to

have electrical wires as fences mild

electrical shocks now they don't have

the wires

but the descendants of those

cows that were traumatized they won't

cross over that fence or they won't

cross over where the Border was

so it's it's this is another mystery

where is memory most people if you ask

them where is memory they'll point to

the brain if I ask you what did you have

for breakfast today

what did you have for breakfast uh

that's a really good question I had a

salad okay with some chicken so no where

was that memory before I asked you the

question there's nowhere in the brain

you can point out

that memory was but as soon as I ask you

the question the neural networks go fire

but where is the memory Retreat from the

only places Consciousness but

Consciousness can't be localized you

know when people get brain injuries car

crashes they lose their memory sometimes

yeah so radios damaged you don't listen

to the music doesn't that prove that

it's in the brain somewhere

is is the is Shakespeare in in on your

movie screen or your television set

is is actually anything you read in the

book is the author in the book

it's that you know you're confused the

instrument with the user of the

instrument the fault of the instrument

is not a reflection on the user of the

instrument

Shakespeare nice would live on like the

the CD or like these that's really okay

yeah but where is that mind

that localized in the CD

in the brain somewhere isn't it no the

brain is just like your CD said okay

what happens in the brain is called the

neural correlates of experience nce this

as I said earlier there's no experience

in the brain

that's where you can put a knife through

it the brain has no self-awareness

when you think about some of these um

neurological diseases like dementia

Alzheimer's

what does that present evidence for in

terms of

I mean I guess a lot of people aren't

really clear at the moment where where

Alzheimer's and Dementia starts or

what's called Alzheimer's now we know is

due to accumulation

of a substance called amyloid in the

brain

so about there are 40 genes that

predispose you to force

Alzheimer's or which three are probably

fully penetrant which means they predict

the disease because that's genetic

determinism

the rest are related to things like lack

of sleep or inflammation

or stress or a diet that causes

inflammation or lack of unregulated

biological rhythms

Etc so there are identifiable causes for

Alzheimer's but again Alzheimer's is and

these neurological diseases all diseases

like that

we're talking about two different things

we're talking about Consciousness is a

fundamental reality and then we're

talking about the instrument that we

call the brain now

I should say to you though that what I'm

saying is not necessarily

accepted by mainstream science but

mainstream science cannot answer the

hard problem of Consciousness or where

experience happens and is not interested

you know right now

the two most promising things in medical

science well there are three or four are

you know one is what we call Gene

editing

crispr so you'll be able to cut in base

genes soon the way you cut and paste

emails

but that'll affect maybe five six

percent of genetic determinism the rest

is lifestyle epigenetics

so that's where we are in medical

science and with machine learning in

artificial intelligence I think we'll be

able to predict disease and make it more

everything will be more personalized

predictable preventable in the future

but we are talking about two different

things right now we're talking about

biology

and we're talking about the heart

problem of Consciousness we'll get on to

the pillars of well-being um wanted to

finish those five points of suffering

yes we can call the five clacias glacias

yeah in Sanskrit

so that we were number three right

recoiling from

experiences that we interpret as

unpleasant

but see once again the awareness of the

experience is not the experience so once

you can observe the experience you're

free of the experience

you don't identify with the experience

oh that's an interesting thought passing

by the screen of my Consciousness like a

cloud in the sky I'm not the cloud I'm

the sky

I'm not this I'm not the play on the

screen on the screen

so an example would be so the sentence

is recoiling from experiences that

unpleasant they're unpleasant so give me

an example someone in my life someone in

my family dies yeah so you obviously are

scared right because you identify with

the experience but everybody dies

I mean trillions of people have died

you're not the only one who's going to

die and then what dies is another

mystery the body dies

the seeds of memory

recycle

because what is memory but it's

information

and that's recycled

through Collective Consciousness as soon

as you're born you're already born into

an interpreted world a world with memory

a world with imagination a world with

non-local Consciousness that is now

localizing through your brain as this

process that you call the body

the body mind is a process in

consciousness

Consciousness itself is not subject to

time

only you know time is an experience we

have as soon as we have subject objects

split so as soon as there's

subject object split which is artificial

in nature is the unified activity

then time is Born the experience of time

is born so in your life if someone

dies God forbid

um do you suffer you grieve which is a

natural process and it has a life cycle

you don't hold on to it in fact you

embrace it

you embrace the anytime you recoil

or deny

resistance creates even more stress so

what we call stress is resistance to

existence

in the moment

okay if you don't resist experience in

the moment

you know it's passing by

so something really bad happens at work

I get a really bad you know my boss

tells me I'm fired

the mindset required to ever avoid

suffering in that case is to

take the news it's not a mindset it's a

it's a step in awareness

the awareness of the mind is not the

mind

who is it that or what is it that knows

a thought

that is what you need to shift to okay

once you shift from

the experience to the awareness in which

the experience is happening

you're independent of it and that's what

actually those eight limbs of yoga are

about it's a process

a shift in identity we started with that

a shift in identity

from your assumed self to your

fundamental self

which is infinite which is without cause

which is not subject to birth and death

which is spaceless timeless

incomprehensible infinite irreducible

and fundamental

it feels almost like I'm stepping out of

myself and looking at myself correct

looking at the projection of projection

of myself we're looking at the

projection of yourself

she's really looking at your avatar and

it's very hard to do because we we are

increasingly becoming avatars especially

with things like social media yeah yeah

we've been we're being reinforced like

you know I have two million followers or

a million followers about 500 000

followers they're following my avatar so

we don't know who we are you're confused

yourself with the Avatar and the battle

is all between Avatar's wanting

importance how does one

resign from that battle and take back my

peace actually the opposite of that is

creativity

the creativity is the opposite of

determinism

if you don't want to be a biological

robot or an algorithm which is what we

are now we are biological algorithms

biological robots and that's by the way

part of our Evolution it's not something

all animals

but the animals have an advantage they

live in the present moment but you and I

have an imagination that can see into

the future that can even

look at death you know as the

culmination of this life experience we

regret the past we anticipate the future

we're never in the present when this is

the only place we are right now is the

present there is no way to escape it but

in our imagination we escape it so the

worst use of imagination is stress the

best use of imagination is creativity

creativity is a disruption in the

algorithm it's a discontinuity

fundamental creativity not you know

usual Innovation like iPhone 13 instead

of iPhone 12 with a better camera that's

not what creativity is creativity is a

death and a resurrection it's a death of

context meaning relationship and story

and a new

meaning

relationship and story whether it's

that's fundamental creativity that's

Einstein coming up with the theory of

relativity or the

Quantum physicists breaking every rule

that we knew in Newtonian physics or a

great piece of art Beethoven Swift these

are original original creativity is a

disruption in the algorithm to to decide

to provide Avatar my avatar getting into

this sort of Avatar wall with a with

other avatars my antidote to that is my

own creativity your own creativity you

know every moment you have a choice

to repeat the past or be a pioneer of

creativity of the future

and that happens by the way it happens

individually it happens collectively we

change World Views you know the world is

not flat anymore you know the ground is

not stationary anymore you know the

world is not Material anymore every

technology that you use is based on the

new idea that the essential nature of

the physical world is it's not physical

I could see you as you really are I'd

see a huge emptiness with a few

scattered dots and spots and some random

electrical discharges and at the most

fundamental level There Are No

Boundaries boundaries are perceptual so

when we experience the spiritual ecstasy

which is ineffable

There Are No Boundaries that's why

people in near-death experience people

with psychedelic experience people with

Peak experiences athletes musical

performance

any any break from ordinary reality

is ineffable

and healing actually that's why at the

recent Resurgence in psychedelics is

very interesting because

you know it it takes you away from

your identity of being squeezed into the

volume of a body in the span of a

lifetime

and point number four the five points of

suffering Point number four point number

four confusing your selfie with yourself

your ego identity we've talked about

that and number five is death death but

all of them have one solution

first one find out who you are

how does one find out who they are

Transcendence

there's no here's another thing there's

no system of thought

no system of thought religion philosophy

or science that will get you

into knowing true reality because

systems of thought are just that systems

of thought what is it that gives rise to

thought

that is what you won't do no and that's

been the Eternal Quest in spiritual

Traditions I'm not talking about

religious Dogma or ideology but there

you know these days is very fashionable

for people to say I'm not religious but

I'm spiritual it means the same thing

when you have a spiritual experience

number one Transcendence you find your

identity beyond space and time

number two emergence of platonic values

like truth goodness Beauty Harmony named

after Plato or love compassion Joy

Equanimity and number three loss of the

fear of death that's Jesus that's

Muhammad that's Ruby that's Buddha

that's every luminary that you have can

study since

people created systems of thought

so how does what's the easiest way to

track you know there's someone listening

to this right now they are driving up

the motorway they're a lorry driver take

some time every day

to be unoccupied even spiritual Pursuit

is an occupation

so take a little bit of you know what I

think it was Kafka or somebody who said

all of human problem Humanities problems

come from our inability to sit quietly

and do nothing

we'd rather electrocute ourselves we're

always doing doing doing we have human

doings we're not human beings anymore

so if I take some I I pull over the the

Lorry that I'm driving up the motorway

and I said you know what Deepak told me

take some time for myself so I sit in

the Lorry for 15 minutes every day

how is that going to help me to

transcend

it starts to process we begin to ask

yourself

who am I

reflect on this these questions every

day who am I

what do I want

what is my purpose what am I grateful

for

and who am I

without these constructs

it's it's a big mystery right Who You

Are

ultimately you realize

you're the awareness in which all

experience happens

but you're not the experience the

experiences in time you are not in time

and that this requires a different kind

of education it's not part of our

culture

it used to be part of cultures you know

if you read Plato and the Republic and

you'll see that you know this was part

of every culture

but it was a few luminaries people

romanticize even about this in India's

spiritual country well India's been

violent forever

a few luminaries the sages of the

upanishad and we have romance around the

Greek culture you know Bob you know the

Greeks were the most civilized in the

world well yes Socrates and permanent

ideas and you know Pythagoras and I can

name a few but the rest of the country

even in those times

you know they had slavery they had

sexism they had

these the the source of the Olympics

where they used to sacrifice

humans and you know we're still

performing it even in our days we're

still repeating that cycle with the what

do you call cheerleaders the the Virgin

vessels of the past

we haven't changed actually much

what else in terms of starting your day

like daily habits so you talk about

sleep as being incredibly important here

are the the daily habits um number one

is sleep now we know by the way that

lack of sleep is the number one

predictor of premature death from

cardiovascular disease lack of sleep is

also predictor of Alzheimer's lack of

sleep interferes with their creativity

lack of sleep causes inflammation so

that's for sure

number one number two uh I think is any

practice that quietens the Mind

meditation reflection contemplation

sitting quietly watching your breath ETC

number three is exercise number four is

Mind Body coordination as in that's

different than regular exercise yoga

practice

and martial arts breathing practices Tai

Chi Qigong they actually activate a

different part of your nervous system

which is the parasympathetic nervous

system which

it causes self-regulation in the body so

it's not just exercise it's you know

something that puts mind and body

together even gymnastics or

things like Judo and I mentioned martial

arts but yoga is my practice

uh then emotionals your emotional and

physical environment your social

environment because we live as social

beings so you know if you're if you're

you have toxic relationships it's going

to cause physical toxicity

um then nutrition we now know that you

know that food that causes inflammation

refined manufactured processed food with

chemicals antibiotics hormones

insecticides pesticides it's poison it's

like putting poison day putting Agent

Orange in your body so organic food farm

to table maximum diversity or

plant-based Foods now we know a lot

about micronutrients we know about

biological rhythms

But ultimately I think spiritual

experience is very important because no

matter what you do no matter what you do

no matter how healthy you are there is

old age

there is infirmity and there is death

so unless you face those bright head-on

when you are healthy not when you're in

a crisis not when somebody dies in your

family then everybody panics

okay I had a crisis in my life

when I was six years old you know my

father was in England he was

training to be a cardiologist I was

living in my grandfather

and one day we got a telegram that my

father had passed all his exams he was

now a fellow of the Royal College of

Physicians big deal in those days we got

a telegram my grandfather wanted to

celebrate so he took me and my little

brother to a carnival then to a to a

movie I even remembered the movie

Alibaba and the 40 thieves and then we

went to a fancy restaurant and then in

the middle of the night he died

and they took him to for cremation

brought his ashes back in a little jar

about the size of this coffee cup a

little bigger and one of my uncles said

what happened yesterday he was taking

the kids to a carnival and today is a

bunch of Ashes

my little brother who'd later became the

dean of education at Harvard Medical

School he was four years old he started

to lose his skin his skin started

peeling off I went into a panic and you

know my uncles took my brother to every

position they couldn't find the

diagnosis till somebody said

you know he's missing his parents he's

feeling vulnerable he's losing his skin

shedding his skin because he's that's a

metaphor for his vulnerability

he'll be fine when his parents come back

and sure enough as soon as they came my

brother was healed so at six years I had

a crisis existential crisis went on to

become a doctor

but what happens you go to medical

school the first thing you see is

is uh is a corpse you're supposed to

understand Life by dissecting a body you

know it's the way we are trained you've

started off by looking at a human being

as an anatomical structure rather than a

process in consciousness

so it took me a long time you know going

through medical school training myself

going through crises smoking addictive

behavior alcohol

I remember

um res resuscitating a patient putting a

pacemaker putting him on a respirator

and then going outside to smoke a

cigarette

and then you know I was disgusted with

myself

I threw away my cigarette that evening I

threw away the scotch

and I decided that I want to understand

who am I

it's almost like in that moment you

observed someone that was so full of

life just moments earlier

turn into as you said Ash is in a jar

scattered in the Wind

and you go where is the

where is my granddad yeah

he's not local no look

right which is our essential nature

actually

to be non-localists to be connected with

all that is

an Indian poetry and Poets in general

John William Blake you know we are led

to believe a lie when we see with and

not through the eye that was born in the

night to perish in the night while the

soul slept in beams of light so when we

looked through the conditioned mind

that's a lie when you look beyond the

conditioned mind

that is light

do you think you'd be doing the work you

are today if your granddad hadn't passed

away when you were six in their

circumstances

I think that was a very pivotal moment

at six years of age existential crisis

most people don't have that at the age

of six because it brought you a bunch of

questions didn't it really profound

questions about the nature of life and

existence existence and and love and

tigor Indian poet

love is not a sentiment it's the

ultimate truth at the heart of creation

that you and the other are the same

being in different uniforms

is it do you have a Ponder if some of

your beliefs are

if that moment really was pivotal that

some of your beliefs might have been a

way to justify your sadness

yeah denial is a way of justifying

sadness I don't think belief is

belief in many ways is a cover-up for

insecurity you know if I say do you

believe in electricity he said no I see

that

device that transistor that TV set

electricity gravity is my experience

so I don't believe in belief

but faith is something else faith is the

knowingness of the invisible

without which there is nothing visible

the invisible is the source of all

things visible

so when you when your day comes when my

day comes when we're no longer I'm

preparing for it right now you're

preparing for this in my tradition there

are four stages of Life first 25 years

they're called ashrams ashram is a place

to rest or that which you identify as

your home first 25 years education

second 25 years family

children Fame Fortune if you want third

25 years giving back and now I'm fourth

self-realization preparation for death

how does one prepare for death by

knowing and experiencing your non-local

self

what people would call spirituality or

death spiritual but authentic experience

I'm not talking about

Dogma or self-righteous morality or

jealousy with the Halo or cunning

hypocrisy we can all pretend to be

spiritual

but if you've had the experience when

you know yourself as non-local

then the unknown is the only place to be

the known as already happened it's a

prison

and what do you believe happens once you

die I think the dream continues

the dream continues in a different

frequency domain of Consciousness these

days actually if you look at some of the

theories of the universe mathematical

theories

current materialistic view is that the

visible universe is about 2 trillion

galaxies

706 trillion Stars uncountable trillions

of planets

based on that current estimate with the

James Webb Telescope and all this

our planet is not even a spec one grain

of sand in all the beaches of the world

so the other day I went to a beach

picked up a grain of sand and a breeze

game he drifted off and the beach didn't

notice that one grain was missing that's

planet Earth 2 trillion galaxies but I

recently interviewed

Caltech professor of physics Sean

Carroll who sits on the desk of Richard

Feynman one of the greatest physicists

of all time

Einstein sat at that desk for a while

Sean Carroll believes there are infinite

universes

infinite universes

it's incomprehensible the idea that

there are infinite universes

but I believe they are and that you and

I have

a a cosmic Journey

that is infinite and infinite means

infinite infinite is incomprehensible it

never ends

you change uniforms

you change experiences hopefully you

evolve like a spiraled staircase

but it's a never-ending Horizon does

that mean rank what people call

Reincarnation of some sort or is it even

people yeah but what is reincarnation

see everything recycles matter recycles

we agree energy resize because we agree

information recycles we agree

if Consciousness is what gives rise to

Energy Information and matter and energy

information matter or human constructs

for modes of awareness and consciousness

why would Consciousness not

recycle why would it be the only

exception it wouldn't be the same

Consciousness though would it it would

be bits of the No it's it's it's

a Consciousness with seeds yeah of

potential

manifestation seeds of Desire

and seeds of memory

now if you want to be totally you know I

want to use the

spiritual

language which is not fashionable but is

fashionable to Karma memory and desire

so karma is past experience

an interpretation of past experience

if you go to Starbucks have a cup of

coffee that's karma

now depending on your experience

you like it or not you decide to go back

to Starbucks or not to go to Starbucks

you go to whatever the other places and

get a cappuccino

so memory recycles as desire

and desire recycles as karma karma

simply means experience don't think of

it good bad

and this is the software or awareness

that recycles and evolves in Cosmic time

now this is the theory but you have to

experience it

so I asked you what did you have for

breakfast but then I could ask you do

you remember a happy episode from your

teenage years or your childhood

and immediately the memory comes where

was it not in your brain

you know I hadn't skated I learned

skating when I was eight years ice

skating I didn't skate for 30 years at

the age of 38 with my two little kids

Rockefeller Center Ice there picked up a

pair of skates

started to skate

every cell in my body including my brain

had recycled

a few million times where was that

memory of skating

big mystery quick word from one of our

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the last couple of how long maybe four

months I've been changing my diet shall

I say many of you have really been

paying attention to this podcast will

know why I've sat here with some

incredible Health experts and one of the

things that's really come through for me

which has caused a big change in my life

is the need for us to have these

superfoods these green Foods these

vegetables and then a company I love so

much and a company I'm an investor in

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announced a new product which absolutely

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pray that it'll be with you guys in the

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out it's an incredible product I've been

having it here in La for the last couple

of weeks and it's a game changer what is

the thing that you believe to be true

that most people disagree with you on

right now my interpretation of what I

call Quantum healing a quantum mechanics

I wrote a book called Quantum healing in

1988 it was vilified

I reissued it a few years ago because

now we have science and I'm doing a book

with the quantum physicist at the moment

where I believe that our biology like

everything else is

is quantum mechanical it's it's it goes

every experience shapes uh our biology

and experience happens in the moment so

your body is changing in the moment

depending on the experience you're

having at a very fundamental level

pleasure pain Joy sorrow eating

breathing digestion metabolism

elimination thinking feeling aspiring

fearing

all every experience

shapes of biology we are the metabolic

product of experience and experience

doesn't happen in isolation it happens

in The Matrix of

relationship

so what people disagree with me is this

whole interpretation I've been attacked

by you know mainstream scientists

but I had been persistent because I'm a

physician and I see people and you know

I'm not sitting in a lab dissecting rats

or doing designing experiments

theoretically

but you see people and as you said

people suffer

and uh you know if you're a physician

that should be your job to address

suffering not be a technician who can

fix everything about the human body know

nothing about the human soul or The

Human Experience this this morning I was

at an event and I had a guy come up to

me after and he said I'm 40 years old

now Stephen

um I'm in a job and I don't like it

it really doesn't like his job that he's

in

um

he's I'd say

trapped as maybe a strong word but he

feels unable to take the leap towards a

life that he feels will fulfill him

um he referenced being scared of what

his friends might say

um and he just there was this almost

this desperation in his face as he spoke

to me he was seeking words of advice

from me

to him to help him out of that situation

of like I'm 40 years old I've got a

partner I've built this life but it's

not resonating with who I am and I just

I could feel the suffering

that's a lot of people that are

listening to this right now they are

that's that's that's so what our social

structures have created and yet you know

the people like Joseph Campbell

oh coined the expression follow your

bliss uh follow your joy follow your

purpose follow your meaning follow your

Dharma you know in Buddhism they said

three things will save you one is

take refuge in the community of

conscious beings

take refuge in a higher purpose and take

refuge in Transcendence

if you do that

your life will be meaningful and meaning

is

what drives us you know there are

actually many Studies by the way recent

studies on what is called the happiness

equation

I'll give it to you

um H is equal to S Plus C plus b so H

stands for happiness is equal to S set

point in the brain the set point in the

brain is

when you look at the situation do you

see an adversity or

an opportunity

how is the set point determined by your

childhood if your parents were

complaining condemning criticizing

playing the victim you will see every

problem every situation has an adversity

condemn complain criticize and play the

victim

on the other hand your parents or your

caretakers or your ecosystem or

relationship when you were growing up

first three four years of life they were

looking at opportunities there were

always you know engaging in

compassionate empathetic conversation

and joy and laughter and celebration

then you'll have a set point for

happiness this set point determines 50

of our daily happiness experience can

this head point be changed yes by

self-awareness by reflective inquiry by

mindfulness by actually knowing that you

have a problem most people don't even

know they have a problem so that's 50

percent

so s

plus C conditions of living

primarily material conditions of living

money

so if you have if you're extremely poor

you will suffer if you're extremely rich

that doesn't guarantee that you'll be

happy

in fact what a lot of rich people do is

they confuse their self-worth with their

net worth

so I I wrote a book before this called

abundance that was inspired by Bob

Marley one of his lyrics where he said

some people are so poor all they have is

money so happiness when it pertains to

money is 10 of your daily experience

if you win the lottery you'll be

ecstatic in the beginning in six months

you'll plateau in one year you'll be

back to your set point

so even if you win the lottery in five

years you might be worse off because now

you're worrying about taxes you want to

put your money in the wherever you know

in the Bahamas or something and you're

it's become your identity money if

you're you know all billionaires money

is their identity they confuse

self-worth with uh net worth

so that's ten percent

now we have 40 remaining that's the

choices we make every day there are two

kinds of choices we make every day once

for personal pleasure

sex alcohol entertainment

movies shopping shopping is the number

one choice for pleasure by the way in

the world that's why we call people

consumers a very ugly word to describe a

stardust being with self-awareness but

does pleasure bring you happiness it

does but it's transient you know if

you're and you have the danger of being

addicted to pleasure if you have an

addictive personality as I did

okay so uh

pleasure brings happiness transiently

there's another choice you can make that

actually is called fulfillment when you

have meaning purpose in your life and if

you know how to make other people happy

by giving them attention which means

listening appreciation noticing their

uniqueness affection letting them know

you care and acceptance radical

acceptance you can't change another

person so you feel better which is what

we're trying to do all the time changing

other people so we feel better

impossible you can't change yourself

even if you try so acceptance

what would you what would you say to

that guy what should I have said to him

in terms of advice

because he did really actually have told

him let's take a day off and let's go

fishing or let's go into you know have a

picnic or let's go to see a comedy

let's go see it just stick discontinue

and

try this

a little moment

of being not doing not thinking not

feeling not speaking I take a week of

Silence every year now I'm taking even

longer so sometimes I'm thinking you

know a month in silence but you know I'm

76 so that's my different stages of life

too

in the hope that that might help him

realize that he's playing the wrong game

or he's thinking about the wrong in the

hope that you know one thing you can do

to alleviate anybody's suffering to some

extent is fully accept them and listen

to them don't give them advice you know

people feel better if you just listen to

them and there's Neuroscience that their

amygdala cools down if you just listen

with deep empathy which means you feel

what another person feels there's some

biology around this you know when you

feel what another person feels and you

deeply listen there's a phenomenon

called limbic resonance your emotional

brain resonates with their brain and

then if you deeply listen to them and

you let them know you care for them

there's another thing that happens it's

called limbic regulation and then the

third step is limbic

revision the neural networks

rebuyer so acceptance affection

appreciation

and attention that's what you do

don't give them advice

people go to therapists to get advice

therapists don't do that they listen

good therapists listen

interesting and in the old traditions

you know that's why people went to

confession

they basically you know revealed their

so-called sins to the priest

and they felt better

one of the things I've read about um

I've heard you talk about is this the

role that affirmations and positive

self-talking

um those kinds of things can have on our

healing to some extent anything mental

is weak this is what I've wondered

because a lot of like you know books and

like Instagram will say look in the

mirror and say nice things yourself or

yeah it doesn't work it's mental mind is

weak you have to go deeper

it's you know to say if you're trying to

force yourself to be positive that's

exasperating that's very stressful

but instead of forcing yourself to be

positive observe your thoughts you know

observe both negative and positive

thoughts and you see that all

experiences by contrast you can't have a

one without the other you know it's like

a pendulum can't swing only in One

Direction it has to swing in two

directions

hot

doesn't is meaningless without cold

pleasure is meaningless without pain Joy

is meaningless without suffering birth

and death are

actually not even opposites

birth and death are opposites life is

the Continuum of birth and death

you can't have one without the other in

biology there's something called

apoptosis program cellular death when

the cell forgets to die

it becomes cancer

that's what it is a cancer cell doesn't

die when it's supposed to normally our

cells are dying constantly so you can be

born again that's the literal meaning of

Born Again

what you think of them

what do you think success is then if

we're stepping away from

this identity which can cause so much

suffering what is for me success is the

progressive realization of worthy goals

number one and where they got that's a

subjective measure so for me that's it

could be taking care of my dog

yes taking care of your dog but if money

is your goal for the sake of making

money then you'll never be happy but if

money is your goal so you can actually

make a difference in people's lives

including your own and your family but

also community in large

that that's a really good

so it's number one Progressive

realization of worthy goals number two

the ability to love and have compassion

and number three actually which is for

me the most important

to always go back to your Creative

Source once you have

this ability to go back to your Creative

Source you will be successful no matter

what

don't be Bamboozled by the hypnosis of

social conditioning don't be in a rush

to conform you know there's studies that

if Gallup I'm on The Advisory Board of

Gallup if you have a house that's fifty

thousand dollars

and you're offered a house that's five

hundred thousand dollars but your

neighbors have million dollar homes you

won't move

you're always comparing yourself to the

other person this is how we are socially

programmed

rush to conform

comparison with others

and you know if your child doesn't

conform then he's not a good student

and I used to um but my son was growing

up he always was reading comic books and

you know engaging in games and sports in

my was very important mathematics and my

wife would constantly complain that he's

not good at school I said wait a minute

we'll he'll

he'll do what he's enjoying let him do

what he's enjoying he ended up creating

a sports company a comic book company

and now he has a very successful

business called the religion of sport

with Tom Brady won five Emmys

wasn't a good student so I said don't

focus on your weaknesses focus on your

strengths and if you have a child who

loves to play tennis it's poor at math

get him a tennis coach and one day he

might get a mathematician to be his

accountant

you when you look forward at the

direction of travel that we're on as a

civilization

what advice do we need now

the most

don't get stuck in melodrama

this whole world is full of drama drama

everything is that sells his drama news

is not news anymore it's opinion and

drama

and all the violence in the world is

drama and you know you read about drama

shooting killing incest well crazy stuff

and we're addicted to trauma actually

and then we complain about it

addicted to trauma or drama yeah but

and what's the cost of being addicted to

trauma and drama suffering

because

because you sacrifice yourself for the

drama or being a conformist does this

mean we have we should like you know I'm

thinking about really my relationship

with technology and social media and

news feeds and stuff well technology is

neutral you know and it's inescapable

it's past part of a revolution if you

don't adapt to technology you'll become

extinct well so it's part of our

Evolution how do we use technology you

know in my field

AI machine learning

Precision diagnosis and even

intervention

I believe Technologies so it's a great

gift

but again technology can destroy the

world too

this is what it means to be human be

humans are very interesting species are

Fall From Grace is exactly what

you know mythical Traditions tell us the

knowledge of Good and Evil we ate the

fruit

it's hard to go through life these days

and not be tempted by drama

it's even someone who you know it's a

process it's a process what is that

process

growth

you know people

some people do grow some people do

evolve and I think

ultimately that is the purpose of our

existence is to keep evolving

do you ever get tempted by drama or

distracted not anymore I used to

I used to I used to engage in debates it

was like

you know big high for me to win a debate

how long ago

well I started in school and I left

debating only recently I was

just five years ago I was debating

Richard Dawkins in in Mexico

and I felt foolish after that

you know so you made the decision not to

debate anymore

not to engage in debate anymore no

because

nobody changes the Mind The Debaters

don't change their mind the audience

doesn't change their mind they in fact

they get reinforced by the opinions they

came with

so if we do want to try and change

people's mind

because see the change if you want peace

in your life be peaceful if you want

love in your life

Give Love whatever you want

engage in that

I think that's the only thing you can't

uh

you have to be the change that you want

to see in others and then people respond

not what do I just say not by what you

do but just by your presence

you've written 93 books as I said

earlier I think this is your 93rd I've

been told this book about living in the

light new book yoga for self-realization

I guess my question you know I I can't

comprehend the concept of writing so

many books I've like I wrote my first

one and then I'm currently writing my

second one and I've been it's just

consuming all of my time and I'm I went

off to Bali if I spent a month there

writing it in I'm sure you enjoyed that

I love it I always get there to write

um it's amazing but my question to you

you know I think this book is fantastic

and I think that we'll talk a little bit

about you're gonna SEC but

your 94th book it's coming this year

it's called Quantum body with the

quantum physicists

so I feel kind of uh

good about that because I've been

talking about that for now since 1988

that's 12 plus 23 that's over 30 years

I've been vilified attacked everything

about that and I realized that people

are territorial you know the physicists

say who the heck is he talking about

quantum physics

the biologists say he's not trained in

biology he's a physician who the heck is

he talking about biology

and yet my experience tells me

that your body is non-local it follows

the principles of quantum mechanics and

now found some

some supporters who know the math

and you know even the body can be

understood

mathematically now I don't know if

you're familiar with this theorem called

girdle's theorem which says it's very

famous theorem and you know girdle was a

German mathematician who was Einstein's

favorite colleague when they they're

both immigrants to America at Princeton

but he came up with the theorem which

says there are theorems in math

that are true but you can't prove them

and their disruptions their

their basically mathematics is platonic

truth describes everything in the

universe

and yet

there are theorems that don't follow

algorithms when a mathematician thinks

of them

he said where did this come from

they don't know they can't even prove it

but it seems intuitively true and if

they follow the theorem it leads to new

creativity

so I think creativity is inherent in the

universe where aspects of that

creativity and with self-awareness we

have sourced to that creativity but that

creativity will never happen

if you don't take time

to

actually incubate

in discontinuity in my life I figured it

out nine steps intended outcome number

one

information gathering number two

information analysis number three

incubation taking time off go to Bali

play golf if you're a republican that's

mystery school for Republicans or

whatever so incubation and that is a

time you settle with uncertainty and

then there's that Eureka experience

Insight so incubation leads to Insight

which is a disruption it's something

totally new new context new relationship

new story

and then if the Insight is accurate then

you're inspired not motivated motivation

is mental inspiration as the word says

in spirit

then you implement it then you integrate

it and then you are a death and a

resurrection these are my nine steps to

creativity I just made them up some

information for intended analysis

information gathering information

analysis incubation Insight inspiration

implementation integration incarnation

I use that for writing my books I can

tell yeah and if you so if you were to

write one last book if I said Deepak you

could write one more book that's it you

can only write one it's going to be your

last ever book

which subject matter would you think was

the most important subject matter to

write that last book about and what

would be the Top Line message of that

book

I hate to use this word it's

misinterpreted but the title would be

enlightenment

explain

what do you mean like why would why

enlightenment

what would the book be about the only

solution ultimately

to know truth with the capital T

you're not your body you're not your

mind

you're not your emotions they're all

um like clouds passing through the sky

you know when when I read some of the

great luminaries

which can shine

our life is a dream we are asleep but

once in a while we wake up enough to

know that

we were sleeping

Buddha when he died he said this

lifetime of us as transient as Autumn

clouds to watch the birth and death of

beings is like looking at the movements

of a dance a lifetime is like a flash of

lightning in the sky rushing by like a

torrent down a steep Mountain as I look

back now my life 76 years it's a dream

but it's been a good dream with a few

nightmares here and there but it's been

a dream and I feel

the only solution is to wake up now you

know when the Buddha was dying people

asked him who are you are you a messiah

are you God your messenger he said none

of the above he said who are you he said

I'm awake finally I think that's our

ultimate Destiny to wake up

what do we need to do to wake up

we need to question our everyday reality

and human constructs they're useful

money is a useful construct latitude

longitude are useful constructs but

there's still constructs they're not

reality what is the source of these

constructs when you get to the source

you realize

that your capacity for creativity is

infinite your capacity for love is

infinite your capacity for compassion is

infinite your capacity for healing is

infinite and ultimately you are infinite

having a dream right now if I made you

prime minister or president of the world

you know if there was one significant

change you could make to lead us more

towards that better future of

Enlightenment I would say an education

that

does not sacrifice self-awareness we

have information overload right now I

don't need information overload I can

Google it or now go to chat GPT or

something like that what I need to know

is who am I

how do you feel about chat GTP chat

it's good I think it's very good and I

think it's unavoidable also I actually

went to a demonstration recently by

Microsoft on something that's coming

soon it's called Prometheus it's Way

Beyond chat GPT

it'll put most of us Physicians out of

business

here because it makes the best diagnosis

gives the best information what happens

then in terms of your purpose and your

meaning well we have more time for

creativity

fundamental creativity to create joy in

the world I think the essential messages

if you're not joyful

you wasted your life

I you know I see entrepreneurs all the

time young guys coming up to me with

amazing ideas but they're talking about

exit strategy before they've started the

business

it's like you know dividing the loot

before there's a train to Rob

but they're already talking and we're

living in a hustle culture you know I

have five exits you keep exiting exiting

exiting and you're still hustling

and you're dying and that's the Final

Exit you're still a hustler

so I say make Joy

and self-understanding self-awareness

the fundamental purpose of existence and

everything else will follow

where's your joy

what is that where do you drive it from

the fact that I exist and I'm aware of

existence that's a Perpetual surprise to

me I was looking at emotions and what's

the healthiest emotion you can have it's

not love it's not compassion

it's not even Joy

it's all

it's Wonder

why do we exist

and why do we have the awareness that we

exist

if

you're perpetually surprised

and full of wonder and joy

you return to innocence

and what we've lost to this world today

is the loss of Innocence

how do I get my innocence back

are you married

I'm in love okay if well when you have a

child you'll see it

you'll see it you know a child is

spontaneous

is in the moment is joyful unless it's

way too hungry but that's a different

situation but it's joyful it is looking

I was the other day I was in a in a

train you know from

Orlando Airport to baggage claim

everybody was stressed in the train

bearing masks Panic to mother on the

phone and full of anxiety and she had a

little baby in the crib and this baby

was looking around in total amazement

finally it caught my eyes

and it gave the most amazing smile and

the whole

the whole room lighted up just looking

at that innocence

we have lost our innocence

and we we take it away from our children

so you know when

children love laughter they love stories

they love surprises you know they love

to play peek-a-boo

when's the last time you were surprised

I can't recall

being surprised so when I feel when I

feel I want some Joy I just look at

children playing is there a way to bring

that Joy back into our lives as a

practice that innocence yes play

um play

not drama as adults play is seen as a

waste of time no please is when you find

creativity and joy

I'm not talking about drama I'm talking

about play

for the sake of play now even Sports has

become competitive

but when you played because you were

playing when a musician is playing

they're not thinking of the end

when you're singing a song you're not

thinking of the ending of the song

you're in the song when you become the

song

when you become

that which you're playing

when the music and the musician become

one when the nor and the known become

one when the Observer and the Observer

come on when the lover and the Beloved

become one that's Transcendence that's

Joy let's play

living in the light yoga for

self-realization this is your fourth

phase of life and you're into your

self-realization phase

do you know the book The Body holds the

score

there's a lot of similarities between

obviously your philosophy and that yes

that that book about how and I was Rick

because you know I've I start I think

everything as a skeptic so breath work

and a lot of spiritual things I start as

an ultimate skeptic I need science I

need evidence I need proof and as I read

through that book and watched some

videos of that one of the things that

it's proven is phenomenal for your

mental well-being is things like acting

yoga they talk about psychedelics and

things like that as well but one

wouldn't assume that there's a profound

amount of scientific evidence that yoga

and acting

have really positive mental health

implications correct

why is Yoga so good for us as humans

yoga means Union Union with yourself and

yoga has eight limbs as they're talking

about in this book and ultimately all

those book eight limbs are meant to

give you only one Insight you and the

universe

are made of awareness you're not made of

energy you're not made of matter

you're not made of information you're

made of awareness awareness is non-local

fundamental not subject to birth and

death infinite and formless

so befriend your non-local formless self

you know again I go back to poetry

acting is great poetry is even better

rabindranath tagore one of my favorite

poets said in this Playhouse of infinite

forms I got sight of the formless

and so my

life was blessed

befriend the formless

and then the forms will be seen as

expressions of the formless

without the form list there is no form