It got scary. We had to move into a high

security building and I didn't know what

to do.

That's when it got dark. Casey Neistat

of YouTube, the king of vlogging.

One of the most prolific creators in

history.

Throughout your story there's this

objectively delusional persistence

towards a goal.

The word I've been using is patience

because patience is so unattractive and

I think you need to remove this idea of

success being this romantic, beautiful

thing. It's not. When I started my daily

vlog, making a video a day 800 days in a

row, it took eight years to go from zero

to a couple hundred thousand

subscribers, failing year in and year

out, and I was $200,000

in debt. Awful. You're a loser. But

patience will smash into opportunity and

then it went to 10 million subscribers

in like 18 months. So in life you can

get whatever you want, but are you

willing to do that for 20 years? If

you're not, don't bother, man. You've

sold the company, you've built the

channels, you've made a huge name for

yourself. At that point

That's when it got hard because the only

goal that anyone should have in life is

one of happiness and fulfillment. And

like this idea that you have to win to

be happy could not be further from the

truth. I had by every definition

achieved success, but I wasn't running

the marathon because I wanted to get

across the finish line. I was running it

because I loved the running and the fame

was insane. Like we had to move to LA

and I didn't know what to do. Until now.

Is this a new Casey? What can we expect?

Casey is a legend. He's a legend to so

many people. He's one of the originals

as it relates to creativity, content,

video, and YouTube. And although most of

us know Casey, what most of us don't

know is the underdog story, the true,

deep, uncovered motivations that drove

him to become arguably one of the

world's most famous, most acclaimed,

most celebrated online creators ever.

And it's a story that you'll relate to.

It's a story of a completely normal dude

that was down and out, that had a very

big, indistinguishable passion.

And more interesting, maybe for me as

someone that's watched Casey's journey

from afar, is what he's doing now.

For the first time ever, he talks about

what his life is right now. Now that

he's not uploading videos every day.

Now that he's a little bit further out

of the spotlight.

And Casey gives us this blueprint for

how we can take that thing that we enjoy

doing, that thing we consider a passion

or a hobby, and drag it up the mountain

and make it an incredibly lucrative job.

How do we turn our passion

into a career? And how do we become

number one at the thing we do when

everything everything seems to be

against us? That is the story of Casey

Neistat and that's the story you're

going to enjoy today. Before this

episode starts, the one favor I'll ask,

if you enjoy what we do here and you

enjoy the guests that we bring, please

join the Diary of a CEO journey by

hitting the subscribe button. And if you

do, I'll make you a deal. I'll do

everything in my power to make this show

bigger and better for you. Do we have a

deal?

Enjoy this episode.

Casey,

what do I need to know about your

earliest years to understand the man

that sits before me today? I I almost

think of people's lives, like a set of

dominoes that have fallen.

What are those first dominoes that fell

to create the man that sits here today?

Oh, man. How much time you got?

Plenty. So my whole childhood was just

completely unsupervised.

Like there was no did you do your

homework tonight? There was no like

dinner at 6:00. It was like be home

before dark or you're going to be in

trouble. Trouble never being defined and

like dark never being defined. And it

was just kind of like a very loose,

kind of [ __ ] up, wandering childhood

of exploration.

You know, like I was telling this story

recently, but we there were railroad

tracks behind our house. And one of the

things we used to do for fun when we

were little kids is we collect pennies

and change and we'd lay them on the

railroad tracks and the train would go

over them and flatten them. Very cool.

But the train would vibrate the tracks

as it approached and the coins would

fall off of it. So what the only way to

to to address that is you'd put the

coins on the train tracks when the train

was really close.

So I you know, I don't know. I was in

grammar school, which is sixth grade.

Like how old are you then? I was like 10

years old. It's a little kid.

And like, you know, train tracks, huge

freight train coming and me putting

nickels on the train tracks to try to

get a flattened coin. That's kind of

what my childhood was like.

As you look back, what is the power and

the

the gift that that unsupervised gives

you cuz I resonate with that so much. I

think the reason I became an

entrepreneur was because I I've always

said this, when I was 10 years old my

parents weren't there when I went to bed

and they weren't there when I woke up.

And being the youngest of four, it was

like they'd assumed I'd also been

parented already. So they just

they like gave up or something. They

just got busy. So in that void of

independence I conducted a lot of

experiments and I almost hear that in

what you're saying as well. That

unsupervised allowed for exploration

that allowed for something. Yeah, I

think it's um

or like necessity is the mother of

invention and I think, you know, if

you're 10 and your parents all of a

sudden are absent, you're just forced to

figure [ __ ] out. It's funny because like

all I want to do as a parent now is

protect my children from the hardships I

had when I was little. But it is those

hardships I had that made me who I am.

And it is like this impossible dichotomy

to address. It's impossible as a parent.

Like I constantly think I'm [ __ ] up

my kids. Like we send them to a private

school because we can. Like if you can

afford it, which we can,

we're fortunate. Like why would I not

send my kids to the best school?

But in the back of my brain, I think

what's best for them is to be in some

New York City public school figuring it

out.

Like I think that's what's best, but I

don't do that.

Um because I had a terrible time at

public school. I hated it. So I want to

protect them from that. So I send them

to a really fancy school that's lovely

and warm and cozy. And like am I helping

them? I don't know.

But no, I think that exactly what you

were saying, like

I had no choice but to figure it out

when I was little.

Like I worked from like when I was super

young I figured out how to make a

dollar. Like I was a

paper boy when I was really, really

young delivering newspapers and I'd make

like 30 bucks a week and then, you know,

when I got to

um eighth grade and I started smoking

pot and I realized like the math behind

weed sales.

I was like, okay, there's like a there's

a 400% a 4x return if you buy quarter

ounces and you break them down and you

sell them as dime bags, but if you buy a

quarter pound and you sell them as

eighths, you're looking at a 1600%

return.

I was like, okay, so how do I come up

with 250 bucks to buy the to buy the QP

and then let me break that down and then

like I haven't hit puberty yet. I'm a

little kid. Like these guys are going to

beat the [ __ ] out of me if I mess with

the wrong people. So I need to befriend

the guys that can protect me and like

figure out that business.

Um all of that was because I had like I

had no choice.

Why were you unsupervised? Where were

your parents?

Um and this is what I mean when I say my

parents were accidentally um great and I

do think they tried their best. You

know, like my dad worked a zillion hours

a week. He had no choice. Um I think we

lived like a very middle class

livelihood. You know, like my parents

had like nice cars. They had Volvos, but

they always bought like five-year-old

Volvos, not never new cars. And like we

lived in a house that was like

comfortable, but like, you know, there's

never any food in our house. It was like

it was fine. We always made it by. Like

we'd go on vacation, but it was always

like in the back of the station wagon

and we'd go to like a town two hours

away and stay in a shitty motel for two

or three nights. But my dad worked all

the time and I only understood later

that it was very like hand to mouth. You

know, he's paycheck to paycheck kind of

guy.

And my mother, you know, I don't I still

don't understand my mom. I think she she

was one of eight kids. My mother is the

tail end of an aristocracy. So it's like

I would describe her side of the family

as like all the privilege and

entitlement of an aristocrat with none

of the money.

So I you know, I don't my mother was

just always kind of an enigma, always

kind of absent. Um

and I think that they were just they

tried the best they could and we were

just kind of left wandering as kids.

They divorced at some point. Yeah,

that's when things got really hard.

In what way? I think that childhood

always felt like you were sort of

hanging on by a thread. It was like one

of four.

My older brother Van was the firstborn

and he's such a Van is such an

incredible guy and he's so magnetic. And

then there's my sister who's the only

girl.

And then there's my little baby brother

Dean who was the baby. And then I was

just kind of this like accident that

happened 13 months after my sister and

two years before my brother. Like it was

this

So it was like I I was always the

loudest and the squeakiest to get the

most attention.

And

you know, that was

I kind of think that like characterized

what my

the challenges was were for me as a kid

growing up. And then it just got, you

know, the the the

the tumult of living in that house just

kind of precipitated until my parents

split up, which happened under very like

auspicious, shitty, [ __ ] up

circumstances and

kids being blamed when the kids

shouldn't have been blamed and um I say

all that without faulting my parents.

again I think they were trying their

best but looking back at it it's like

what the [ __ ] guys.

I I had you say previously that you you

had to tell your father that your mother

had been had cheated on him. Yeah I

remember that vividly and I can picture

the table we were sitting at I can

remember his posture I can remember his

response to it but yeah you know my

mother you know she's a

she's a you know she's a good woman she

has faults like all of us humans have

faults but I think she let those

manifest in a way

that were really dark at that time in

her life and it was apparent to me as a

14 year old exactly what was going on.

Exactly what was going on it was so

[ __ ] crystal clear. As a 14 year old?

Yeah like abundantly clear.

And I never really understood my own

father's perspective on that.

But I understand that his perspective

now it's like you know he's working a

million hours a week to keep his head

above water

and also like you don't want to see that

you don't like the truth sucks so just

like put your head in the sand and

ignore it is a very natural response to

it but I was like fighting with my

mother at the time

about you know all kinds of [ __ ] that a

teenager fights with their parents about

getting in trouble at school and

all of that so I I was mad at her

and I think I you know part of part of

me addressing that was just sort of

confronting my dad like what are you

going to do about this woman?

At 14 years old you knew your mother was

cheating on your father and and you told

him? Yeah.

How does one know that?

I mean it's it it was

it was super apparent I mean there were

very there was a handful of very

specific

situations that just made it abundantly

clear um

and you know I think that's why I like

you know at the time obviously I fault

my mom through and through but looking

back at it it was you know it was

probably something closer to like a cry

for help or a cry for attention or oh

but just a way of her

you know her letting the struggles she

was facing in their totality of her life

manifest like this is the only way I can

express it is by doing this kind of

[ __ ] up awful thing. As you step out

of that chapter of your your childhood

what are the

fingerprints the character fingerprints

that are left on you that still are with

you today? What did that chapter of your

life those first sort of 15 years

do you think

think anything has changed I don't think

it's even fingerprints there was so like

acute the way that I had that I saw my

future when I was that young.

Like I knew exactly my plan. Really? And

exactly my plan and then look the

specifics of how that plan was going to

come together were

ambiguous at best but like I had I knew

exactly my plan.

Like New York City was always the plan

and I remember it was like page 41 in my

social studies book was a two page

spread of the New York City skyline and

I wouldn't let myself look at that page

cuz it would I would have such an

emotional response to it like Tom Hanks

in the movie Big I would play that movie

on repeat cuz I was like that's me like

that's me I'm going to move to New York

City and get to be the kid that I wish I

could be like that's me to this day like

I know every word of that movie that

movie is like a bible for me it is a

road map for me but you know like I've

I've

made 500 YouTube videos about this

single idea but like the mission of my

life and this was defined then when I

was a little kid the sole mission of my

life is to realize all the promises I

made to myself as a kid. Like when

you're a little kid and you're like

someday I'm going to be an astronaut and

like your mom yells at you and it's like

well someday I'm going to have kids and

I'm not going to yell at them or like

you're [ __ ] hungry and you're all out

of mac and cheese and you're like

someday I'm going to have a refrigerator

that's always filled up with food like

whatever it is.

You know you have a boss that's an

[ __ ] and it's like someday I'm not

going to have any boss and like all of

those promises like my promises could

you know they could fill up a phone book

and my sole mission was always like you

know I have to check every single one of

these off.

Um the how was always gray but the the

to do it was always vivid and there was

never even a doubt that it was going to

happen like there was never an if never

there's nothing even close to that. But

life throws at you at that age things

that you could never have predicted and

those things don't seem to have deterred

your pursuit of that mission. You have a

child that's what 16 17 years old?

Yeah that was it yeah so I moved out

moved out is such a funny way of

characterizing I say moved out and I

picture like a moving truck pull up I

got in a fight with my mom at age 15 on

a Monday night

um school night

and she gave me this ultimatum this is

when she and my father were like you

know really

they they were splitting up and getting

back together it was like a really

gnarly time in the family but we got

into this fight and I just remember

thinking like I was so mad at her at the

time I was like you can't tell me what

to do

and she was like you need to do this

this and this or get out of this house

and I was like all right I'm going to

go.

And I just like left. Where where did

you go? I like that I just stayed at a

friend's house down the street cuz his

parents were like

weirdly religious but also kind of

absent they were always like really warm

to me so I was like can I sleep here and

he's like yeah sure.

And I slept in another friend's house

and then So you ran away from home?

Yeah so I say moved out it wasn't like

you know put the couch over there and it

was like I just took a backpack and it

was as close to like a stick with a red

handkerchief on the back

um but I eventually moved in with these

two girls they were great they were

super fun um

and you know they were like let's see I

was 15 I think they were 17 or 18

and then yeah I started you know one of

them

she and I kind of got close and then

like immediately she was pregnant and a

year later we had yeah we had a kid.

And that was challenging but even so

like I never

I remember one moment where like she

started freaking out in the car

cuz she was like you know eight months

pregnant and she's like crying and just

like you know

dealing with it and I pulled over and I

was like what are you upset about and

she was like

what are we going to do? We don't have

any money like you don't even have a job

like what are we going to do?

And I was like it's going to be fine

what do you mean what are we going to do

it's going to be fine we're going to

have a kid it's going to be great it's

going to be fine.

Were you not scared?

Then no it just everything made sense I

was like oh this is great.

There's a naivety to there's beautiful

Now I'm scared I always say that like I

had nothing to lose then I had nothing

and nothing like I had I had no

reputation

you know like my friends parents all

thought I was a [ __ ] degenerate they

wouldn't let me hang out with their

friends cuz I was such a bad influence

so it wasn't like I had like a

reputation nobody knew me I had nothing

I had no money I had no resources I knew

no one

and when you have nothing to lose you're

just like a

you're like a rat that's cornered and it

was like all right I'm going to chew my

way out of this one

um and now I'm like so scared of

everything I do in life cuz I'm like

it's so good right now I don't want to

[ __ ] anything up take it really easy

like I'm really happy right now like

this is I want to protect what I've got.

But no there was a naivety then that was

just uh

that was it's hard for me to empathize

with how

like bright eyed bushy tailed naive I

was I remember like my son Owen when his

mother when she and I split up

um

you know she dumped me cuz I was just

such a pain in the ass and God bless her

for doing so but I remember it was like

then I was like okay I've got a plan in

five years I'm going to move to New York

City and I'm going to figure this out

and I'm going to do this and I'm going

to do that. What were you going to do in

New York?

know I had some cockamamie plan there's

always a plan. Um

I don't know what this is but I knew

that like up until that point in my life

I'd only ever worked in the back of

restaurants

washing dishes or like being like a prep

cook or just being like the low man in

the totem pole takes out the trash and

scrubs out the garbage cans and like

does all the [ __ ] work mop um is the

only job I'd ever done.

My my father sold used restaurant

supplies so like if you needed a new

oven or walk in fridge so he could

always get me jobs in restaurants

and I remember like moving to New York

City my only plan was like I'm just not

going to work in a restaurant that's my

plan I'm going to do anything that's not

work but I had this five year plan to

move to New York City and like six

months later I quit my job and moved to

New York. When you look back at that

sort of like 19 year old kid that quits

his job and moves to New York so up

until that point what do you now know as

a guy that's in their 40s about the

brilliant accidental decisions you were

making at the time?

Like what are the brilliant you know

like the accidental brilliance that is

probably objectively stupidity like

that's a stupid decision but in

hindsight you go I was a genius. You

know it's I never would say in hindsight

I was a genius it's just be it was raw

stupidity and fearlessness but

it's like all those stupid [ __ ]

quotes that everybody posts on Instagram

that like I hate about like you know you

only live once follow your dreams pursue

this like [ __ ] you [ __ ] every one of you

I hate that [ __ ] I hate inspo porn even

though I'm very guilty of

fanning the flames of inspo porn but

like there's so much truth to all of

that

and the reason why I hate that [ __ ] is

like if you have to be told that too

late if you're going to learn that from

an Instagram post it means nothing

nothing to you it's just masturbation

like it's it's doing nothing for anyone

people just put it up there to feel good

about themselves

but

all of it is true

and what I mean by that is like I could

never do at age 42 what I could do at

age 19 which is just say [ __ ] it I've

got a 10th grade education

no high school diploma no work

experience no life experience and a two

year old

what's the best thing I can do right now

I know let me move to the most expensive

challenging city in the world with no

plan.

If I hadn't done it then I don't I don't

know if you could ever do that and I

think that like when I say those cheesy

quotes are true, it's like

you kind of have an obligation in in

life that if you feel something that is

so powerful to you, like follow through

with that.

And I'm not naive to that

now. I wasn't naive to it then, but I

think now I can articulate it, which is

like

this idea of privilege.

Like if you're like born in the United

States of America, if you like get to

sit at a table and do this, like no, I

wasn't a rich kid and like yeah, I was

like on welfare and got free diapers and

milk from the state, otherwise I

wouldn't be able to

feed my child and like I work 60 hours a

week in a kitchen making eight bucks an

hour. I think I got 7.25 an hour was my

starting

um salary. And like I that was like I'm

like the luckiest person in the world to

get to do that. Are you crazy?

Like do you know what some kid in South

Sudan would do for that opportunity? And

I just walked into it. I'm like a

healthy guy. I've got two legs that work

and like like I got a brain like I'm

like I'm the lucky the lotto on life.

So like if you start life with this

winning lotto ticket and it's like a

little hiccup. Accidentally had a baby

when I was [ __ ] teenager. It's like

oh, no big deal. Like they'll just push

through this. This is going to be great.

And it's like I want to live in New York

City. It's like let's go for it. Let's

do it. The privilege that sounds like a

privilege of mindset.

Not this objective privilege I guess

from being a Yeah, like I push back and

when people say that, my response is

like [ __ ] you. Privilege of mindset. No,

that's an objective privilege. Name one

time in the history of humanity Like

where the Sumerians invented the written

word 5,000 years ago. Name one time when

people had the kind of opportunity that

like people like us born in the West

have. Like there's never existed before.

Never. Ever. Maybe it was a little bit

easier for our parents.

You know what I mean? Like maybe like

post-war

USA was like a little bit easier than it

is now. Maybe now is a little bit harder

than it was for me 20 years ago, but

like still, give me a [ __ ] break.

Like this life is like it's it's the

hardships we face now are so menial

compared to what they were 100 years

ago. Objectively, 200 years ago. You

ever see that thing that went viral and

it was like the reasons why people died

in London in the year 1892 and like the

fourth most popular cause of death was

teeth.

Like it was like if 60% of the

population are dying cuz their teeth are

[ __ ] up. Like we have it pretty easy.

What Why don't people So there's going

to be another guy right now that's like

washing pots in the back room at the

seafood restaurant on the $7 an hour.

And he might be listening to this right

now and he hears you say that, but why

why don't people take action beyond that

point and take the big bet when they

have objectively potentially nothing to

lose? Oh, what's that line from

is it Caddyshack or Fletch when he's

like the world needs ditch diggers, too?

That's a very cynical take on it, but I

think a very practical take is like not

everybody wants it and I think that's

okay. I think it's a wonderful thing. I

never understood that.

I think like in life you can get

whatever you want, but you can't want

whatever you want. If you don't want it,

there's no creating that. But do you

think think sometimes people want to

want it, but they don't really want it?

course. Of course.

And I think that's okay. Like if you

really [ __ ] wanted it,

you wouldn't need this like

inspirational podcast to make you make

that decision. You'd already be [ __ ]

doing it.

Um and that's not it to be defeatist. It

just means that like

the only goal that anyone should have in

life is one of happiness and

fulfillment.

And like this idea that you have to win

to be happy could not be further from

the truth. Like why do we hear about

rock stars and famous actors and these

people that we see as sort of like the

the absolute apex of success in the

industry, why are they all [ __ ]

killing themselves and dying of

alcoholism and like all that darkness

happening at the highest level? It's

like cuz that doesn't equal happiness.

Like what is happiness for you?

And the example I like to point to is

like my best friend in the whole world,

we grew up together like

um I like ran away from home. I stayed

with them for a little while. Like we've

been together since we were kids. You

know, like when I moved to New York, he

stayed in the hometown. And like when I

quit my job washing dishes, I gave him

that job. He literally took over that

job. And now, you know, here we are 25

years later. He still lives in that

town.

Um you know, he still has a a job very

similar to what he had 25 years ago.

He's got three amazing kids. He lives

like a very what I would say is like

very classic archetypal middle class

American life. And like I look at him

and I'm like that is the embodiment

of like happiness and fulfillment. He

has this amazing relationship with his

amazing wife. He has these three

brilliant little kids that he gets to,

you know, make sure you get they get to

school every single day. He's got like a

cute dog that he goes on runs with. He

has this amazing life and no part of

that life was being like [ __ ] this. I

want to like live on the moon someday. I

need to run away from all this. Like his

his focus in life was something

completely different.

And I think that I didn't understand I I

struggled to appreciate that when I was

younger, but now I see like so much to

that and that's why I think like

adjusting the pie in the sky is just one

of happiness and fulfillment and

defining those

it is up to you. Bronnie Ware meant was

talking about the other day. She's a I

think it's called palliative care nurse

in Australia who interviewed people with

one day left to live and she asked them

what their biggest regret in their life

was. The number one regret of the dying

was not living a life true to myself.

Mhm.

And for those people,

those that do have this aspiration to

start that business or I don't know,

become a ballet dancer in Europe or

whatever that are

held back by potentially some form of

fear,

you know, is there is there anything

that one can offer them to get them just

to take

that that first initial step, which

seems to be the hardest, like getting

off the couch or getting out of quitting

the job

that you you you might offer to your

children if they came to you.

Yeah, yeah. I just think that failure is

um

I think failure is like the greatest

gift. I think failure is like it hurts

so bad, but failure is like is a part of

life and if you're not willing to accept

that, like failure is part of it. You've

got to keep failing.

Um

Anvil. The story of Anvil. You know,

this I made a whole video about this. I

made a YouTube video about this.

Um

and then the leads the there's a movie

called Anvil.

I think it's called The Story of Anvil

or something like that. Anvil was this

like big hair rock band in the '80s.

And they opened for like Def Leppard.

You know, like 50,000 people kind of

thing, but they never headlined. They

never broke through.

They were the always the opening act.

They were always like the bridesmaid,

never the bride.

And the movie opens showing these huge

concerts in the '80s and Anvil just

rocking out and then it cuts and it

shows the lead singer.

And he lives in Canada and he drives a

little van. He delivers food to old

people making minimum wage, like barely

able to keep his head above water. And

he performs still in his leather outfits

as like this middle-aged 50-year-old guy

to like six people and they'll be just

drinking beer and he's there giving it

his all. And the movie is about how

relentless this guy like he's just not

willing borrows money from his sister to

record an album. Nobody buys it. Can't

pay her back. She had kids and [ __ ]

Like it is the most devastating story

you've ever seen because he's unwilling

to give up that dream. Like he just

wouldn't let it go. It was his whole

life.

And then this documentary comes out and

it's [ __ ] fantastic. And because of

the documentary,

Anvil blows up.

And all of a sudden he is that

superstar. Like on tour selling out

arenas in Japan and [ __ ] Like he did

it.

Had he given up at any point in time,

the the documentary wouldn't have been

interesting. It would have just been

another person who threw in the towel.

But they made the like a filmmaker saw

this story and was like that's crazy. I

need to tell that story and it yielded

that success. Had he not been willing to

take on 40 years of failure, 30 years of

failure,

um he would have never found success.

And I think that's the most extreme

version of that. The reason why I was

interrupting myself is because I made

that YouTube video about that's

basically the story I just told you. And

like the director reached out and was

like whatever the little guy's name, the

lead singer of Anvil. He's like, "Dude,

he loved your YouTube video." And I was

like, "Yes!" I was like starstruck. You

know what I mean?"

Um but I think failure is overrated. I

think failure people are so scared of

failure and I think the fear of failure

is that it's the fear of what other

people are going to think about you.

Persistence.

That's what I heard through that story

as well. Just this almost

objectively delusional persistence

towards a goal. And I don't know if

those words are correct because in that

situation I

I question whether Anvil's success was

ever really making it or the journey

itself was the success. But in your

story I see the same level of like

persistence that a bystander would go

that guy's crazy. Because there was

various stats I saw about how long it

took you to get to various success

milestones. Even when you started daily

vlogging, I think it took you five years

to get to like 400,000 subscribers.

Yeah. Throughout your story there's this

there's this persistence where I go

this guy would have carried on doing

this because he wasn't doing this for

any particular milestone.

What role does persistence play?

It's funny cuz persistence is such a

it's a more accurate word, but the word

I've been using lately is patience

because I think it's so much less sexy.

Mhm. I think persistence is like

like under the picture of the like

little kitten hanging off the branch,

it's like persistence.

You know what I mean? But they'll never

say patience. Patience is so

unattractive.

And when people say to me like what's

the one piece of advice you give to an

aspiring creator and you know,

patience. Like patience above every

because like if you're not willing to

give up, if you're willing to stick with

it for you will find success or you'll

die trying, which case [ __ ] it. Like

whatever. You know, you're not going to

be that

person in the palliative care saying, I

wish I had hadn't given up cuz you

didn't give up. You just kept going.

You're going to be that person that's

like, I've got one day left. I can still

pull this [ __ ] off.

But patience is a really unsexy way

of saying it and I think you need to

remove the sexiness. You need to remove

the sensationalism that has that has

that inspiration has

been perverted with.

Is this idea of like it's this romantic

beautiful thing. It's not. It's [ __ ]

awful.

Like failing year in and year out and

having everybody roll their eyes at you

and like

you know, whether you're a musician

who's performing at the mall and no

one's paying attention to you or you're

that YouTuber uploads and you get zero

views. Like it's [ __ ] awful. It's

embarrassing. You're a loser.

Like I talked to to Mr. Beast Jimmy and

it's like his war stories

from when he started YouTube and he was

using his like mom's busted compact

computer with the built-in webcam making

these videos that no one watched.

They're all deleted scrubbed from the

internet now. They're terrible. And just

like him going to school the next day

and it's like two of his friends from

school saw him

and both acknowledge how terrible they

were. Like that kind of like

being told you're that's that's failure.

Being told you suck over and over and

over and over and then seeing how much

you suck be quantified

by a lack of views or no one showing up

to your concert or no one laughing at

your jokes cuz you're a stand-up

comedian or no one showing up to your

restaurant cuz you're a chef. Like that

sucks. Starting an online store no one

buys your [ __ ] t-shirts. That sucks.

Failure sucks.

So like combine that with patience. Like

that suck? Are you willing to do that

for 20 years? If you're not, don't

[ __ ] bother, man.

Don't bother.

And that's why I like the

the plainness of the word patience is

cuz it's it that is what it is.

Persistence. Persistence is like, oh,

you're at mile 22. Persist, man. You'll

get across the finish line in four short

miles. That's beautiful and fun and

hardcore. That patience that you and Mr.

Beast have both shown and many others,

where does it come from? Because

objectively any any sane person, if

everyone's telling them they're a loser

and they suck and their parents are

saying you better go get a real job.

Anyone

who's acting in line with their

their apparent incentives in that moment

would quit.

I think very simply it comes for for me

and I think probably for Jimmy, too.

We've talked about it. He and I have

talked about it, but there was no

plan B. There was no other option. You

know, like I

I had no backup plan. There was nothing

else I could do. It wasn't like I had a

college education and there was like a

job in

an ad agency waiting for me where I

could just say [ __ ] you'll make 80k a

year and get a nicer apartment and relax

and have a nice go of it. It was like if

this doesn't work, I'm back in the

kitchen making 725 an hour. Like you

know getting money from the state so I

can pay for

like groceries on a [ __ ] wick. I was

on wick. Women, infants, and children.

It was a card. You'd swipe it and you

would pay for your diapers and milk and

that's it. If you tried to buy like a

Nintendo with it, it wouldn't work. Like

that I remember that. That's was the

fallback. That was the alternative.

Um every single turn that was the

alternative. Like I moved to New York

City

and I was here for 3 months. I had a

3-month sublet that my brother's

ex-girlfriend paid for.

She was like, I'll loan you the money. I

was like, cool.

It was her parents' credit card that

paid for it. And it was like 1,800

bucks. 600 bucks a month. 400 bucks a

month for 3 months. I shared a In any

event.

That lease was up. I had nowhere to live

in New York. I was like, [ __ ] what do I

do now? I moved in with some This this

guy was like, hey man, I need extra

money. If you want to sleep on my couch,

my dad pays my rent so you can sleep on

my couch and just give me like 300 bucks

a month and that way the money goes to

me. I was like, deal.

And I slept on his couch for exactly 11

nights from September 1st to September

11th, 2001. And then the morning of

September 11th, the entire apartment

blew up

with me in it and him in it. And I

remember like later that day like

getting on the phone with my dad

and like the towers are still on fire

and my dad being like

I think it's time for you to come come

home now. Come back. And I was like,

what are you talking about? Like what

what are you talking? What do you mean?

Why would I come back?

And he was like, terrorists blew up your

apartment. You have no job. You have no

prospects. You have no money and now you

have nowhere to sleep. I'm I'll figure

that out. I'll be fine.

Later, Dad.

Um like that's that that's patience.

That's delusional patience.

But you asked why. Like what fuels that

patience? The plan B was literally

moving back to southeastern Connecticut

and getting a job in a restaurant.

I read a study once about this whole

idea of plan A thinking and they take a

group of people and they tell them to do

a puzzle and it and in exchange for

doing the puzzle um correctly, they'll

get a a snack.

So they take two groups and they say,

okay, do this puzzle. If you do it

correctly, you'll get a snack. Then they

take another group and they say, do the

same puzzle. If you do it correctly,

you'll get a snack. But then they say to

the group, you can also get the same

snack just down the hall in the vending

machine.

And in the second group where they're

given a plan B to get the snack,

motivation level levels drop. They spend

less time trying to do the puzzle um and

their performance towards doing the

puzzle comments as well. Just by being

aware that they can get the same reward

down this down the hall,

performance drops. And if there was ever

a case for this psychology and they've

done this multiple times in multiple

studies, but it is pretty solid evidence

that even the presence of a plan B can

reduce motivation towards your plan A.

Completely.

Completely. I mean I wish I knew that

study cuz that's such a beautiful

beautiful illustration of what it is and

also what it means to have a a knife at

your back. Mhm. Do you remember the

thing I used to say back then when I

first started to find success

and I would always be like

my life is like I'm running from a pack

of starving wolves. If I slow down at

all, I will be eaten alive. Like I have

one choice and it's to keep going as

fast as I can or I'll be torn to pieces.

And that's what it felt like and I love

that. Like that sounds so like negative

and dark, but like I love that. It was

such like a motivation.

And I pitied the friends. Like I

remember I first moved to New York City,

my first summer here.

I don't know how, but I like fell in

with this like

clique of because I thought the girls

were pretty, but like these rich kids.

And I'd go out with them. And I just

remember like the way they would pick up

the tab. And they're my age. We're all

like 19, 20 years old and they're

picking up like, you know, hundreds of

dollar bar tabs and like always had

taxis. Like a taxi to me was like

you know, it's like a private jet. Like

you They were like I had all this money

and I would always kind of look at them

with this kind of like

jealously and like it was less of a

jealousy and more just fantasizing. Like

imagine

if I was the same age I am now, but I

had a credit card with an unlimited

amount of money. Like I went to her

apartment. She lives on like the 26th

floor. She has a two-bedroom apartment

and she lives alone.

I'm sharing a 300 square foot studio

with strangers I met on Craigslist. We

have to wait in line to use the bathroom

in the morning.

And I fantasized about what that would

be like. And then

seeing as they got older and as I got

older and them sort of them sort of

wandering and not sure where they want

to go in life and all of that whereas

for me it was such a you know, there was

such a defined path.

Cuz I didn't have any of those luxuries

or any of those benefits that I now look

at back at that as like being virtuous.

So how do you do that for your kids?

Well, that's the million-dollar question

cuz it's like I never want my kids to

feel the

that [ __ ] that I had to feel. Like

the shame of like always hiding in the

bathroom when the bill came.

I was like I would always you know, like

I would always do something. I wasn't

just like a total take, but like

I just you know, like I always kind of

felt like a scumbag cuz I was never able

to contribute the way that other people

were and like that's a really shameful

thing and

like I can remember so many times like

when I would meet a young lady

and she'd be like, can we go back to

your place? And the excuses that I would

come up with

cuz I like lived in an SRO for a while.

I lived in a halfway house that I bribed

my way into. A halfway house for anyone

that doesn't know in Europe is a It's

where you get out of jail and you're not

allowed to live normally yet in in the

public. That's right. So they put you

into a building where they can monitor

you.

How did you get in there?

I bribed the guy at the door.

Um there was like a guy behind glass

with like a little slot.

And you'd have to check in and check

out. And I went there and I was like,

hey,

do you have any open rooms? And he was

like, no, get out of here. And I came

back with a carton of cigarettes with a

hundred-dollar bill in it and I was

like, I need a room.

And he was like, all right. He was like,

531 is yours, right? Your name there.

And he was like, it's $450 a month cash

or whatever it was. Interestingly, when

you tell that story of being in a

halfway house and having no money and

all these things, uh objectively someone

who looks at that situation and goes, oh

man, I feel so sorry for you. Like I was

so psyched. But this speaks to how

perspect like

a mindset and a perspective can turn

hell into heaven or heaven into hell.

Yeah, I mean like I I've That's some The

reason why I learned about that is it

was my I had a friend her cousin lived

there. And he was like, here's how I got

in. I bribed the door guy. And he's

like, it's cool. It's like, don't talk

to anybody in the building. And he's

like, you know, some of the people in

here are undocumented immigrants and a

lot of them are like they just got out

of jail.

I was like, all right. That's cool. And

he's like, some of them are homeless

people that were given these rooms. I'm

like, okay. I can handle all that. And

they like told me the whole thing of how

to get in there. And you had no bathroom

and no kitchen.

How did this change, Casey? I know video

had come into your life around

Video came into my life before I moved

to New York City. That was the catalyst

is

um

my baby mama dumped me. I came into New

York to hang around my brother Van, who

I like worshipped, and he had just

bought He was doing like temp work.

Right. He lived in Brooklyn. He had

bought the first iMac, like that the one

that was like shaped like a big

blue TV,

and it came with like footage of like a

dog in a um plastic like kitty pool, a

pool for children to play in, and the

dog was getting a bath. So, you could

play edit with the footage that came

with it.

And he and I would just kind of edit

that footage over and over. So, we

didn't have a camera. So, I bought a

camera, and he had a computer, and I

came in and we'd like film stuff and

edit videos of it.

And I was like, I can figure this out.

And I like maxed out a credit card and

started making terrible videos. Then I

was like, that's it. I'll become a

filmmaker. And then I moved to New York.

Like it was one of the three things I

brought to New York when I moved here

was this huge iMac and like a backpack

full of clothes and then like my BMX

bike, which was stolen the next day. And

you're like 19 at this time.

Yeah. What was it Do you ever think

about the psychological reasons why you

were so drawn to video and storytelling

generally?

I don't know I I have an answer to that,

but I don't know if this is the why I

was drawn to it or maybe I've just said

this so many times it's become

my default response, but I definitely

felt like I never had a voice. You know,

I think it's because I was like

a third out of four kids or like I never

did well in school. I was always in

trouble, so the teachers never listened

to me. I was always in trouble and

getting in fights and stuff, so my

friends' parents never liked me.

Um

and I just felt like I I was never

heard.

And then I started to make videos, I was

able to kind of articulate my thoughts

or an idea in the form of a video, and

people would respond to that. So, I

think that was part of it, but

I don't know. I think I also just

liked it. Like there was something about

it that felt so fun.

And there was something in the end that

you would have that was like this

finished fun thing. Did you like movies?

Yeah, but I was never like a cinephile

as a kid. You know, like I had my

favorites. You know, like I loved the

movie Big. And I do remember in seventh

grade we got to do um this program where

you could like choose a profession and

then you got to go do that job.

And like there's a Pfizer pharmaceutical

had like its headquarters in nearby

town. So, like a lot of the kids went

there to be chemists or scientists and

like they got to go spend like two hours

at Pfizer. There's a submarine military

base, a lot of kids got to go onto the

base and see what it's like to be in the

Navy.

Um and mine was, I want to work at a

video rental store

because I want to get paid just sit and

watch movies all day.

And they're like, all right, I guess we

can organize that for you. And I

remember going there and it was like

this kid and he was like, yeah, I work

the day shift, nobody ever comes by. And

I was like, what are we doing? And he's

like, you have to put away those movies.

It took like three minutes. And I was

like, now what are we doing? And he's

like, just wait for customers. So, we

just sat there and watched TV for like

eight hours. I was like, this is a job I

could get into.

But I don't think it was like the you

know, like the Quentin Tarantino where

he worked in a video store and studied

film. I never had that.

Do you think that's part of the reason

you were successful at it though?

Because your style has always been so

clearly original in so many ways. That's

how it feels. It feels like you are in

fact someone that didn't go to movie

school, and that's why people resonate

with it. Yeah, and I I

I always say that like my filmmaking

style is because I was never taught the

right way to do it. So, I was forced to

find my own way to do it. And I think

that kind of thinking is at the same

time as

sort of like consumer grade video

creation became this ubiquitous thing

with computers and editing software and

cameras for the first time ever in the

history of humanity,

you could like the early 2000s, you

could buy like a DV digital video camera

and you could buy a computer and plug it

in and you could edit your own videos.

So, my aspiration to make videos and

this machine that let you do it, those

happened at the exact same time. And

because of that I was forced to create

my own style. Like my hard drive was 10

GB, so I could edit like

it was like 12 or 16 minutes of video

before the hard drive was full. So, no,

I made really short videos, and that's

why. Cuz like I didn't have a choice. It

had to be a short video.

Um but I do think, yeah, like the lack

of formal education in that capacity

forced me to be

uh a different kind of filmmaker or

approach it differently anyway.

Do you look back at

I'm so compelled by

originality

as like a subject and the power of

originality because when you when a

couple of people in society or the world

or business or creativity or movies

take the risk of being original,

the issue is

they draw in a and that originality is

resonant, they draw in a big audience

who then look up to them and almost

confuse that admiration for that person

with their aspirations for themselves

and go, I will create like Casey.

And that is the way to be successful.

It's a very logical deduction, but it

seem but it's clearly flawed.

Because there can be no other Casey.

It is tremendously flawed. It's what I

[ __ ] hate about YouTube. Um I call

this like the the Mr. Beastification of

YouTube.

And I have to be very careful here.

Jimmy's a genius. What Mr. Beast has

done on YouTube is brilliant, and it's

because of his brilliance.

So,

if this is not to take away from him at

all, I think he has incredible what he's

done.

And he has no control over the fact that

millions of people are trying to copy

him. But the fact that millions of

people are trying to emulate what he's

doing, that is the Mr. Beastification of

the platform that I hate. Because

Jimmy's always been very honest. His

goal has never been like Ask me my goal

and now, in the most sort of

intellectual of terms, I'll look back at

it and I'll be like, video for me has

always been a way of

um a refined self-expression for me to

take my thoughts and force them into

this sort of articulate six,

eight-minute compartmentalized little

video and share it with the world. Like

that's been my motivation.

Jimmy's from day one has just been find

success. He was a kid who had no money,

had no resources, had no friends, he had

nothing. And he's like, this is a tool I

can use to take me to the highest planes

of of business and all of that. Jimmy is

just as passionate about his chocolate

company, Feastables, as he is about his

his video creation company, you know,

Mr. Beast Enterprise. He's just as

passionate about his philanthropy

um being successful and helping as many

people as possible as he is about making

a video about what it means to live in a

million-dollar house. Like his passion

is about that winning. So, for him it's

beautiful. But in the most reductive

sense, when people look at that, they're

like, okay, that's what it means to be a

YouTuber. All that matters is views.

And I put next to no value on that.

None.

Again, this isn't to take away from

Jimmy cuz what he's done is incredible,

but when people aspire

just to get that view count up, to me

it's a race to the bottom. I [ __ ]

hate it. I hate it. And I do think it's

because of

people not knowing what to do, so they

look to see, well, who's successful?

That's how I'm successful, let me be

that. And it will never work. It will

never work. Um it requires

sort of an introspection of like, no,

why do I want to do this? What is true

to me? And then you go and do that. And

maybe you'll find success, and maybe you

won't, but at least it'll be true.

Why does truth end up mattering more in

that case than

views? So, if there's one path here and

I can get a million subscribers by just

doing a Jimmy uh or Casey knockoff

channel, or there's this other path

which I go, oh, there's no blueprint

here and

it's never been done before, and I don't

think anyone's going to like this stuff,

and it's probably not going to pay my

bills.

Why what's the case for pursuing the

latter, the true path? I I think that

truth lasts. Truth matters. Like there's

a direct There's uh no correlation

rather between the movies that have won

Best Picture the Academy Award for Best

Picture over the last 80 years and the

highest-grossing movies. Those two

things have been the same like three

times, four times. Like

one of them I think was Gone with the

Wind.

Meaning that the movies that that

the movies that the world determines are

the most quality, most important,

greatest films, the greatest

contribution to culture and humanity are

almost never the same movies that make

the most money.

Transformers 9 was a really cool movie.

I don't [ __ ] remember what happened.

I think there was a dinosaur in it.

But like

you see a movie that affects you. You

see a movie that that matters to you.

You see it, Little Dieter Needs to Fly,

this documentary by Werner Herzog. You

see The Anvil Story.

And you're thinking about it. I haven't

seen The Anvil Story in five years. I

think about that movie every day. That

lasts. So, that matters.

And me as a 42-year-old grown adult,

like I know in life that's what matters.

There's always There was always going to

be junk food, there'll always

for it. There'll always be an appetite

for [ __ ] reality TV and [ __ ] and

you know, like whatever pop stars are

popular this week and will disappear

next week. But the musicians that like

change you,

the ones that write that song that like

uh makes you cry, like you'll never

forget that. So, for me, like if if you

if you want to be an artist or you say

you want to be an artist,

how could there be any other goal but

that?

And just to bring this full circle, I

think the magic of Mr. Beast or Jimmy in

particular, I don't think he's ever

wanted to be an artist. And that honesty

is why I have so much respect for him.

He's a He's a He's an empire builder,

and that's what he's wanted to do, and

he's done that through video creation.

But um again, not neither here nor

there, not to digress. For me, it's like

great work matters. And it does. It

changes people. Changes me.

Look at the work that like Spike Jonze

did. Not his Oscar award-winning movies,

but like I look at his little weirdo

music videos that I used to watch when I

was a kid. And I watched those music

videos over and over. What's up Fat Lip?

The music video that he made with Fat

Lip who was like a kind of a popular

hip-hop artist who didn't have any money

and he was like I got this new song

Spike, but I don't have any money to

make the video. So they went out and

they like put Fat Lip in a clown costume

and they filmed it on a VHS camera.

It's like one of the my favorite music

videos ever.

But I saw that and I was like I can be a

filmmaker.

Now if you had made a video just trying

to get the most views or whatever it was

instead of just him and his friend Fat

Lip trying to make something great, it

might not have done that for me. And

that changed my world.

So like if you're going to share your

[ __ ] inspirational quotes on

Instagram, then step up. Like make the

thing that could change the world. Make

the thing that could affect someone.

Don't just give me Mickey Mouse [ __ ]

that's going to get views.

I I look at both you and Jimmy as

pioneers, but for very different reasons

and seemingly for with very different

motivations. You strike me as someone

that was really inspired by the art form

and the storytelling side of like the

the creative production process. And

Jimmy took this seems like he took this

other approach where it was much more

about what the data was telling him to

make. Yeah. Both of them created

originality though. Completely. You

know? Completely. I think Jimmy is

in the history of I think Jimmy is the

most important YouTuber in the history

of YouTube. And I think that arguably I

think he's one of the most important

people in the history of entertainment.

Full stop.

I don't know that anyone has built an

empire that reaches as many people as

what he's doing. I think like there will

be case studies taught about him at

Harvard.

Um

I think what he he is a true pioneer in

every sense of the word.

Do you care about the views?

No, but that's easy to say. I'm like you

know, I don't worry about paying rent

anymore and like I don't usually don't

check the prices at restaurants before I

order dinner. So

it's easy for me to say. Um

Obviously like it's it's there was a

time when that really mattered to me and

was super super important to me.

But I've grown up and I've you know, a

level of financial security which is

super real. So it's it's less about that

and more about doing good work. If one

of your kids came to you and they said

dad I want to be a YouTuber.

And what would be the what would be your

response to just that first surface

level I mean it's happened. Little

Francine is like she's so good, too.

But

Candace always gets not mad, but she's

always like take it easy Casey cuz I

have a tendency to over intellectualize

it, but I'm like

Frannie, you can make whatever you want,

um but you're not allowed to share it.

And she's like why? I want to get

subscribers and views.

And I'm like well if you make it, like I

want I just want to make sure you're

making it for you cuz you want to make

something not because you're looking for

that

I don't know words I use with her, but

like that validation. I don't know if

she would know that word, but

And that's when Candace is like take it

easy Casey. She's eight. And I'm like

okay. All right, just do your thing

kiddo. But um

Yeah, I think like the concern What is

the concern? Is why? Like if she wants

to do it cuz she wants to be an artist,

[ __ ] yes. I will drop everything to help

you on this mission. If you want to do

it cuz your little girlfriend at school

did it and she got 35 likes and you want

to get more likes than her, then like

pump the brakes kid. Like that's you

know, like that's What if she says I

want to be bigger than Mr. Beast?

The same thing.

Then you know, it's like why? Like why?

Why do you want to do that?

You know, and also like

I have fame is a very weird

very strange thing. Um

And I think the what the most strange

thing about fame is

it's not

what you think like

There are people who have achieved and

felt some degree of fame and there are

people who haven't. And if you're in the

haven't camp, there's no way to

understand the have camp. There's no

way.

There's no way.

And um

having been over here

you know, like to see someone aspire for

that is like you know, I like no way.

What's the warning?

The warning is just like if if

if fame is a byproduct of what you're

doing, then it is what it is. But if

fame is the

end game

then you're just like one of those

[ __ ] reality stars with the [ __ ] up

faces cuz you've had so much plastic

surgery and like what are you doing?

What are you offering the world? Like

why are you here?

Like you're give you're you're

benefiting the world in no way

whatsoever. You're elevating the world

zero.

This is pure like narcissism.

This is just just just for some weird

ego journey that you're on.

Um again, this is one of those moments

where my wife would be like

back off Casey. She's eight. Let her

finish her mac and cheese. I wouldn't

say that to the kid, but like yeah, if

she says I want to be bigger than Mr.

Beast, like then yeah, I get nervous.

What if she I say she says okay, I want

to do I want to make YouTube videos cuz

I love creating videos, but I would like

some advice dad on how to be a

successful YouTuber. Yeah, you should

see her. She has a whole channel that is

stop frame animations of her stuffed

animals. You're not allowed to have her

voice in it or her hands in it. You're

not allowed to identify that it's in our

apartment. But she makes those and

they're [ __ ] great and they're funny

and they're really good. So that like

yeah, we support we support her so much.

We buy her the equipment. We help her

make it. We're part of the audience. We

have like a family I message thread that

we distribute the videos on.

Um she even has her own

Instagram handle that has zero

followers. Candace and I don't follow

it. We pass the phone around to watch

her Instagram because we don't want her

to even

associate one like with why she's doing

it.

Even if that like is from us. My sister

texted me and was like hey,

you you sent me a screen capture of

Francine's Tik Tok or whatever. Can you

send me her account? We're like no.

This is clearly coming from your

experience, right?

Protect them as long as you can, man.

Keep the kids so far away from that.

Keep them far away from views and likes.

Yeah, for from seeking validation. Did

you ever fall prey to that?

Uh

Did I ever fall prey to that?

Uh

yeah, but I'm I'm different because I'm

I was old.

Like I was literally your age that you

are right now sitting across from me

before I had an Instagram account.

Think about how much more you know than

an eight-year-old. Yeah. Like for an

eight-year-old to that's the world that

she's growing up in, it's a really scary

place. Like social media we're seeing

social [ __ ] kids up. We're seeing the

mental health crisis. We're seeing how

it's manifesting. We're seeing eating

disorders because of Instagram. We're

seeing like all of these social issues

because of social media.

And I think wanting to protect your kids

from that is sort of a universal thing,

not just someone who has lived in that

space.

Um you know, I think about I've had a

unique experience with it because I was

I had achieved some level of success

outside of social media in the world of

regular old media. Um and then it was on

social media that I found real success.

Uh but I was able to do that with that

kind of hindsight and with that kind of

clarity of being an adult, being

pursuing this career for 15 years

before.

On social media you found real success.

Yeah. Was that due to your daily vlog

predominantly? Is that the was that the

real catalyst moment to the growth?

yeah, 100%. You know, like I I

Van and I my brother Van and I had a

television show on HBO that we sold to

HBO in 2008. And that television show

was exactly my daily vlog. Full stop.

Only eight episodes or something, wasn't

Eight episodes. 22 minutes 22 to 24

minute episodes. But if you watch that

daily show, it looks like an early

version of my vlog. It's identical. It's

the same exact [ __ ] But that was before

YouTube was really a thing. YouTube was

invented in 2000 or launched in 2006 and

it was really just a place for watching

like basketball highlight reels and like

Charlie bit my finger. So you know, we

put that show on HBO.

Very highly reviewed, but nobody watched

it. It was on at midnight on Friday

nights. Like it wasn't a breakout

success.

Um and then Van moved to California. So

I was kind of on my own and I was like I

just want to do that.

So I I tried to sell it to

MTV.

And they didn't get it. They're like we

know this is great. Like I showed it to

someone there and they brought me in and

I met with the heads of MTV. Like met

with some really powerful people.

They're like this is unlike anything

we've ever seen. This is fantastic, but

we're not sure this works on TV.

I was like okay, cool.

And then yeah, and then I put it on

YouTube. And how did that go?

Well you you know, you talked about the

numbers before. Like so before my daily

vlog I was considered like a successful

YouTuber. Like a celebrated YouTuber. I

had

I think it was 280,000 subscribers. And

it had taken me almost a decade to get

there. I started in my YouTube channel

in 2007 maybe and by 2014,

2015

I had 280,000 subscribers. I had a

couple movies that went truly viral that

had like

5 10 million views.

Um

all of my movies did more than like 50

60,000 views which is amazing.

Uh and people liked my videos. Like the

New York Times saw my YouTube videos and

like make videos for us.

I was doing that back then. So I by all

definition very successful on YouTube.

But then I started my daily vlog.

And it took whatever that was eight

years to go from zero to

couple hundred thousand subscribers and

my daily vlog went from couple hundred

thousand subscribers to 10 million

subscribers in like 18 months.

It was a kind of like explosion that I

had never felt in any other capacity in

my my

career, my life. What's the lesson that

you take away from that about

consistency or compounding or

you know? Yeah, yeah, that's that thing,

patience. I wasn't really doing anything

different. I mean, certainly I was

working much harder to create a video

every day.

Um it was hard work. But really it was

just like

I had this square peg

and I tried to knock it through

thousands of

uh

round holes for

15 years. And like sometimes I was able

to jam it through and sometimes it would

kind of fall through and I wasn't able

to duplicate it. And then all of a

sudden, like the moons aligned.

Like the [ __ ] planets aligned, Pluto

was lined up, the sun the sun shined

through like right as the locked ark,

the light came through, the city

illuminated. And like 2015,

YouTube was just becoming something

more. It's the first generation that

grew up on YouTube. Like it'd been

around for, you know, nine years and

people had a relationship with this

platform.

And no one was doing anything of any

significant production quality.

And I had 15 years of experience in

making short videos. I brought all of

that to YouTube.

And then just the episodic aspect of it.

So it was like, you know,

make one video of me running around New

York City, hanging out with my wife,

having lunch, doing something else and

then the video is over and it's like,

oh, who's this

funny looking guy in New York? Whatever.

Do that seven days in a row and you're

like, oh, this is kind of fun. I get to

hang out with this guy.

Do it 300 days in a row and it's like

I've become part of your life.

And that just snowballs. Like it

snowballs in every way. It snowballs

algorithmically. And that's what those

that quantitative explosion was. It

snowballs financially. Cuz you get paid

whatever, call it a tenth of a cent per

view and that doesn't mean much if

you're getting 10 views. But if you're

getting a hundred million views, the

money starts to become substantive.

Um brands, the kinds of companies you

always wanted to work with. Maybe one

out of every hundred creative directors

at an agency has seen your videos, but

all of a sudden you go from getting a

hundred thousand a month to a hundred

million a month. And now every creative

director has seen your videos and like,

we want to work with that guy.

And it just it just was, you know, just

it happened so quick and was so

explosive and so exciting and so fun.

Sounds like that was your anvil moment

in some respects. Like the you'd put in

15 years of work and then your

craft and patience had met opportunity

in a way. And people might look at those

moments and go, oh, that was, you know,

that's luck because, you know, you just

But what is the rebuttal to that? What's

the like

right. It was luck.

But like luck is What is it? Luck is

where

preparation meets opportunity.

I'd just been preparing myself for that

moment for 15 years, you know? And then

the opportunity opened up and I was

right there.

And the truth is like most of us, yeah,

opportunity just flies by us all day

every day when we're not ready for it.

Um I was seeking it for that long.

And you know, there's some other

circumstances too. My friend Max pointed

this out to me when he and I were having

a meeting last week, which was like

when I launched that YouTube channel

um the the daily vlog rather, when I

launched that in 2015

I had had a show on HBO that they bought

for $2 million. I had had movies that I

produced, two of them, in the Cannes

Film Festival. I won the Cassavetes

Award at the Independent Spirit Awards,

which was like the Academy Awards for

indie films. Like

I had a I worked at the New York Times.

I made movies for Nike. I had by every I

had worked for myself at that point in

time for 12 years in my own studio.

I had by every definition achieved

success.

But at the exact time I launched that

YouTube channel I was $200,000

in debt.

Meaning I was more broke than than when

I was on welfare getting checks for my

kid because I was so deep in debt

because, you know, the the year

preceding that I was invited to MIT um

as a fellow. And as a high school

dropout, it was like no greater honor

than to get to go to one of the most

prestigious academic institutions on the

planet and be invited there.

Um and I remember going there and being

like, whatever I do on the other side of

this is going to be different from what

I'm doing now.

And what I was doing then was making TV

commercials and doing fun stuff like

that at a good career. Around that time

you read

this book. Yeah.

What was um

what was so

inspiring or perspective shifting about

that book, Hatching Twitter?

It wasn't around that time. So I went to

MIT as a fellow. Mhm. I worked out of

the MIT Media Lab.

And my lab group was called the Social

Computing group.

Mhm. And it was, you know, eight or 10

technologists, one artist who was a

painter, and then me.

And I never and still to this day I

don't know what I was doing there.

I'm incredibly close to the professor. I

talk to him all the time. He's since

left there and he is a mentor of mine,

somebody I speak to regularly. I still

don't know what I was doing there.

So mostly I just observed. Like I was

given no assignment. I just observed.

And I didn't have any friends. I was