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>> U. So, the last time we talked [music]

uh last time I saw you, we were at a

cage fight at the White House.

>> That's right. That's [laughter]

That's

>> one of the craziest experiences of my

life. It must have been one of the

craziest experiences of your life.

>> Oh, yeah. It took me like 2 weeks

afterwards to recover just to like go,

did that actually happen? That seems It

seems so insane.

>> Okay. The most insane part of it, which

I guess was was before you got there to

to me at least, is you like you come

into work every day in the White House,

right? You you know, I have an office in

the West Wing. There's the Oval Office

in the West Wing. And you look out the

window and as this like eightstory

complex was growing up, it was the it

was just the most unbelievable thing. I

think it's like the south lawn of the

White House, but you've got the eighth

wonder of the world [laughter] being

built up around it. And every day I'd

look at it and be like, it would take me

a couple seconds to be like, "What the

hell is going on?" And I like, "Oh yeah,

it's UFC. It's UF UFC coming in a couple

weeks."

>> The whole thing was surreal. First of

all, it was crazy that the weather just

went around us.

>> Like there was a real moment where the

fights would have been postponed until

10:30 p.m. to start.

>> Correct. And uh last minute the storm

just diverted.

>> That's right. Well, and uh you know this

this uh this book that I have that I'm I

guess we'll talk about a little bit, but

the book tour started the next day. So I

was flying to New York the next day to

talk about it. And all I could think

about is every time we got the update

from White House weather, oh it might

not start until 10:30. I was thinking to

myself, "Holy [ __ ] that means I'm going

to go to bed at like 4:00 a.m. I'm going

to look like a total crazy person when I

try [laughter] to go talk about go talk

about this book." But yeah, it it it

amazingly it did work out. Honestly, it

actually helped a little bit because, as

you know, it was hot as hell out there

and it was super humid, you know, mid

June in in in DC. And I think the

weather actually helped cool it down a

little bit because by about 10:00 or so,

I was not thinking it's hot as hell out

here anymore.

>> Yeah, it wasn't too bad. But I talked to

Justin Gatey about it and he said it was

a problem when he was fighting. He said

the air was very thick. Okay.

>> Like it like right after the first

round, he was like, "Boy,

>> like this is rough." Cuz that hot humid

air and you know it's

>> Yeah. Yeah. No, it's it's it's fine

walking around.

>> It's it's I mean it's okay walking

around. It still feels it is a swamp,

right? That's why people call it the

swamp. So, you know, that's obviously

June 14th. That's the president.

>> That's not why they call it the swamp.

[laughter]

>> That's one of the reasons why they call

it the swamp.

>> They call it the swamp.

>> They call it swamp because of my

colleagues, too.

>> Cuz it's filled with [laughter] mud and

water and gunk and [ __ ] and swamp

monsters.

>> Oh, man. So, that's June 14th. So, it's

the president's birthday. That's also

was that was my 12th wedding

anniversary.

>> Oh, wow. and uh my wife. So that's

that's the one thing like if somebody

runs in here, it's because my wife's

going into labor cuz she's like 39 weeks

pregnant. But uh I remember we go out to

dinner like right before the UFC fight

and we're of course checking the weather

report to figure out what's going on.

And you know, my wife normally likes to

come to the cool stuff of being vice

president. That was the one where she

was like, "It's hot. I'm super pregnant

and I'm not going to sit sit out there

for six hours." So

>> yeah, I couldn't imagine [laughter]

Also, it was just there was so much

chaos and and the potential for real

chaos was always there. First of all,

you have the Ellipse. So, the Ellipse

has what 85,000

people outside

>> and for people that watching at home

like we could hear them like when the

fights when when something would happen

>> in like kind of a delayed way, right?

>> You hear the cheers from the people that

were near. So, it was like 3,000 plus

people tightly close to the octagon and

then you had 85,000 people in the Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> in the background. It was very eerie.

>> Yeah.

>> I actually loved that. Like I loved the

delay reaction to where you know

somebody get a good punch in or you know

you get a takedown and then it was

almost like the wave, right? Cuz there

was the initial center of it and then

the people outside of it.

>> It was pretty sick.

>> It was pretty sick. It was very

[laughter] cool. I think Dana said not

once in a lifetime or not once in a

generation or once in a lifetime

experience.

>> Yeah. I mean, it's once ever. Yeah. I

don't see any other president. I mean,

if you become president, you're not

going to do that, [laughter] right?

>> Uh I don't know, man.

>> It's I wouldn't I didn't want to do it.

>> Very cool. Get it over with. Do it once.

>> It was the only time in the history of

the sport where there's been seven

stoppages. Seven Seven knockouts. Like

every single fight was a knockout.

>> I didn't realize that.

>> Yeah. Every single fight. Okay.

>> But the thing is like we've had seven

knockouts in a card. I think this last

weekend we had 10 10 stoppages.

>> But um

>> that was different because it was like

14 fights. That's right.

>> This is all fights. Every single fight

was a knockout.

>> So the last fight. When did you realize

that was over

>> with Connor?

>> Yeah.

>> Um when he fell down the second time I

was like this is not good. F the first

time I thought he just slipped. It's

hard to tell. It's wild. It's in the

moment. I thought he slipped and then

when he got up and he threw a kick

again, I'm like, "Oh, I don't like how

his leg just gave out." That didn't seem

like I'm still hoping he's just

slipping.

>> Yeah.

>> I'm hoping he's just freaking out cuz he

hasn't been in the octagon in 5 years.

>> And then he started moving around and he

he like grabbed his knee and buckled.

>> Okay.

>> And there was some conversation that

Yeah. There was some conversation going

on between him and Max Holloway. And I

was like,

>> you know, Max is saying he can't fight.

Like something's wrong. and he's saying,

"Fight me." He's like, "Get up." And so

he lets him up and then his his knee

buckles. Then the referee stops the

fight.

>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. There it always So so

the the very I think it was the very

last fight where the the ref tried to

call it at the end of the third round

and then because he was he was saying

that there was a concussion issue. I

mean I couldn't tell what was going on.

>> This the Ilia Tapora fight, the Justin

Gate fight at the White House.

>> The Taporio Justin fight.

>> He couldn't see.

>> Okay.

>> He was saying he couldn't see. Well,

something was wrong with his right eye.

>> Well, I mean it looks like his whole

face was puffed up, so he couldn't see

anything, but Okay. So, I thought it was

a concussion thing, but it was it was

because of his vision.

>> No, they never got they I mean, the

concussion thing would only be if

someone had been battered. There's a lot

of times where fighters are fighting

with concussions.

>> Yeah, it happens all the time. You get

dropped in the first round, you probably

have a concussion. You get back up, you

keep fighting, you're fighting on

instincts. There's been many times where

fighters wake up in like the fourth

round

>> and they've fought three rounds and they

don't remember it at all.

>> God, that's pretty crazy.

>> Not the best way to make a living.

[laughter]

>> Not the best way to make a living, man.

Yeah. No. So, we saw Gachi um at the

White House a couple of weeks ago and I

asked him, I was like, "So, are you done

fighting?" And he kind of hesitated a

little bit and then I think it was his

mom was in the Oval Office with her.

She's like, "Yes." [laughter]

>> Yeah. But, you know, if they offer him

some life-changing money for one more

fight after that performance, I have a

feeling he'll take it.

>> Like, what is what could he fetch for

his next fight? Like 50 more?

>> It's a good question. You know, I don't

know what his contract is. I don't know

how it works. I don't know what the most

anyone's ever I try not to pay attention

to that stuff

>> because I'm not on the business end of

the sport.

>> It kind of color your perception a

little bit.

>> It can. And it's also it's I mean I want

them to get paid the most amount

possible. That's my perspective. Yeah.

>> But what I'm my job is just to analyze

and to see what's going on and to

commentate and try to give color and

life to what's happening inside the

octagon. And I don't I try not to dwell

too much on the money. I just want them

to get paid a lot. Yeah.

>> I want them to be able to retire and

never have to do anything ever again.

>> Sure.

>> I don't know if Justin could do that.

What's crazy about it to me is just how

much the sport has replaced boxing and

like there's still obviously boxing is

still a big deal and fighters still get

paid a lot of money but like I remember

when I was I don't know in high school I

feel like people would get really

excited about the big heavyweight

heavyweight title bout. Now it's the UFC

thing.

>> So culturally it's like UFC has taken

over boxing and I don't I mean I don't

know how or why that happened. Like I

don't know if it's just good marketing

or if it's just the fights are so much

more real and intense. Like I but it's

it is a crazy shift that's happened in

20 years.

>> Well, I've had some I had some friends

this past weekend that manage fighters.

My friend Josh Dubin and a few other

friends that actually manage boxers come

to the UFC and they were all like, "Oh

my god, this is so much better than a

boxing promotion." Because you c all the

fights are exciting. With boxing, most

people are just there for the main

event.

>> And a lot of people don't even stroll in

until like 15 minutes before the main

event. Sure.

>> Like all the famous people that sit in

the front row.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Uh in the UFC, that place is packed for,

>> you know, five, six, seven fights in.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, and there's 14 fights in the

night and all of them are amazing. It's

like in the beginning it's usually like

half full

>> depending on where you are. If you're in

a place like Salt Lake City, it's pretty

packed like right away because they only

get like one event every year or

>> so.

>> But um it's just a more exciting sport.

There's more ways to win. It's more

dynamic. More things happen

>> and there's more stars. There's so many

stars in the UFC.

>> Yeah. So I'd never seen a fight live

before. Like I've watched them on TV,

but I'd never been there live. So kind

of crazy that it's literally in the

south lawn of the White House. But the

thing that I found completely shocking

about it was like I would think those

those like arm bar takedowns are just

done. Like that's it. You're over. But

there were a couple of times where

somebody had another person's arm and

>> Yeah, that was Josh Hoit and Derrick

Lewis.

>> Bless you.

>> Um and it's like holy [ __ ]

>> Yeah, he

>> you're going to have your arm broken off

and yet he didn't.

>> He wasn't doing it right.

>> Okay. [laughter] Josh Hok is a great

wrestler and he's an excellent fighter,

but he's not really a submission

specialist. I mean, he did get the arm

bar, but he didn't do it right. Okay.

>> He was basically like pulling on. You

have to elevate your hips and you have

to create space so that the arm is

bending back this way. His arm is

essentially flat to his chest, which is

not what you want. What you want is

>> a back arch like this where you see like

how it is right there. Yeah. Yeah.

>> So, what he wants to do here, what he

should do instead of having his hips

down, his knees up, what you're supposed

to do is heavy leg curls with the leg

and elevate the hips up and pull it way

back. So, he'd almost be bridging it. He

would be on the top of his shoulders and

bridging and then he would have broken

his arm. The other option is you pull it

off to the side like this.

>> Yeah.

>> And you put it to the side of your hip

and you can break it that way.

>> Okay.

>> But it's just bad technique.

>> Okay. So, watching it. No offense, Josh.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Watching it, I didn't

realize that. I just could not believe

that dude held out for like 30 seconds

with his

>> Was that more shocking or when he said

Michelle Obama is a man? [laughter]

Which one was more shocking?

>> Uh, definitely the armbar part. Man,

[laughter] I I work in politics. People

say crazy stuff all the time.

>> Well, he says that every fight, does he?

>> Yeah. Yeah, he said it. He said that the

last time I interviewed him.

>> Oh, man. Well, it's

>> He's like a pro wrestling character.

People lost their minds about it.

>> I know.

>> Lost their minds about it to the point

where again I had the view either the

next day or the day after to sort of

promote this book.

>> That must be fun.

>> It was crazy. It was harder than any

anything I've done in politics. But the

the the to the point where all of my

comm's people, the thing they were most

worried about was they're going to ask

you about Michelle Obama being called a

man. Like what what are you [laughter]

like what are you going to say about it?

And I was like, what an amped up fighter

told a joke after a fight. Said

something after a fight and that's

actually national news. I'm still

surprised. I've been in politics now for

three or four years. I'm still shocked

the [ __ ] that people get really fired up

about.

>> Well, I kind of understand it because

it's at the White House. First of all, a

cage fight at the White House is crazy

already. I mean, if he said Michelle

Obama's a man at the T-Mobile Arena in

Vegas, it's like, okay,

>> less of a story. He what he is is he's a

very good fighter first of all and but

sometimes that's not enough to get

attention and so what Josh has done is

created this persona like this pro

wrestling bad guy persona when you talk

to him offstage he's like very normal

very smart guy

>> it's just like he's decided like look I

want to maximize the amount of eyeballs

that see me and I'm going to create this

crazy person he comes out to the Hulk

Hogan song I'm a real American

who has sunglasses on, American flag

band. It's, you know, he's

>> I mean, I love I love the I love the

presentation, but again, I like

>> not the best thing to say at the White

House. Michelle Obama's a man is not the

best thing to say.

>> Fair, but the reaction to it to me was

still totally disproportionate.

>> Yeah, of course.

>> People say, Dude, people say stuff all

the time. And what I Okay, I I live I I

I work in a business where obviously

people make life decision, life and

death decisions all the time. And I'm

always a little bit caught off guard by

the culture that just overreacts when

clearly the thing what that Josh is

trying to get is the overreaction in the

first place, right?

>> So you give him exactly what he wants

and like the worst you could say is,

"Oh, that was an offensive comment." And

you get on with the rest of your life.

Like that's the worst that you could

say. the people who really flip out

about it and kind of lose their minds. I

just I don't understand that.

>> Well, first of all, I think a lot of it

is there is an economy that is

essentially based on getting reactions.

>> Correct.

>> And there's a lot of people that are

just, for a lack of a better term,

they're they're not real. They're

they're reactions are performative. Like

a lot of what they're doing is just

trying to trying to comment on things

and get clicks and likes and views. And

social media has ruined discourse in a

lot of ways because people

>> it has

>> people are not having like real

conversations about things. is they're

reacting to things on Instagram and

Twitter

>> and you know they're just they they look

at an opportunity like that like oh I

found a gold nugget

>> they're like this is going to give me

money or this is going to give me

attention this is going to give oh I

can't wait to have a take on that.

>> That's exactly right. So but okay so my

response to that is so many things is

like oh he was being funny he was being

outrageous and I just move on with my

life. What I find very interesting is

the people who say, you know, oh, that

was a joke. Like when when Kill Tony,

you remember he told like the joke heard

around the world in Madison Square

Garden during the 2024 election.

>> I remember getting into an argument with

somebody about this and I may have even

been like in an interview, but

>> I don't remember. It could have been

private, too. Anyway, I I'm like, he

told a joke and then the person's

response is, well, it's not a very funny

joke. And my response to that is, you

know what happens when somebody tells me

a joke that's not funny? I don't laugh

and then I move on with my life. This

whole industry around outrage,

>> especially getting outraged around

humor, I think is actually really

hurting the country.

>> Well, in that case, first of all, I told

Tony a long time ago that joke was going

to get him stabbed. I really did. He

even jokes around about it on stage. He

talks about me telling him, "That's the

one, dude. That's the one's going to get

you stabbed." Any good joke at least is

going to run you some risk of getting

>> well certainly a a racial joke and that

joke being about Puerto Rico. By the

way, no one takes a joke better than

Puerto Ricans. Puerto Ricans are some of

the best people at telling jokes. Like

there it is a culture of joking and and

[ __ ] around with each other and

talking [ __ ] Like

>> they're great at it. So like

>> some Puerto Rican guys in the Marine

Corps, man. That's absolutely true.

>> They love him still, you know, like even

after that joke. What? So you you you

advised him not to tell that joke.

>> Well, I was kind of half joking. You

know, Tony that's what Tony does. You

know what? By I just said that's the one

that's going to get you stabbed. But I

mean that's what Tony does. Tony is like

the Josh Hokit of comedy. Like he but

very talented. You know, he's a really

good he's a roaster.

>> He's like roasting is is his specialty,

but it's also like he's trying to ruffle

people's feathers. That's what he wants

to do. He wants to piss people off.

That's he likes being a pro wrestling

heel. He always he's a huge pro

wrestling fan.

>> Well, so well he so Tony I like I'm a

huge fan of his comedy. I've only you

know met him a couple times. I don't

know him particularly well but he's

actually like you know more political I

would say than most comedians.

>> Do you think that's fair? Okay.

>> So um

>> well very supportive of like Trump

>> like he's on the Republican team. He's

on their 100%. That's because he's

experienced so many loony leftwing

people in California and that's why he

had to move.

>> Well, somebody sent me a clip. I think

it was Shane Gillis at a roast where the

the joke was they were roasting Tony and

they're like, Tony Hinchcliffe is the

only dude who would be excited if JD

Vance was here. [laughter]

And I was like, one, that's a very good

joke. And number two, I feel like I had

made it. Like there have been a few

moments where I feel like I've made it.

When

>> you're the vice president of the United

States, I think you made it.

>> When when South Park spoofed me, I felt

it more than when I got it sworn in as

vice president of the United States.

>> That's hilarious. That's very funny.

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>> Yeah. Tony is uh I mean that's his style

like like he loves like being the heel.

>> Get a kick out of it. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

He's one of the first people that moved

out here with me.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. I mean we've been here for six

years now.

>> Yeah. And every time we go back to

California, we're like, "We were right."

>> Yeah, absolutely.

>> We were right. It's falling apart. It

keeps going further and further down the

toilet.

>> Well, how do how do you feel like Austin

is going? Cuz the criticism of Austin,

call it five or six years ago, is that

all the like it's a cool town. It's got

its own unique culture. It's Texas, but

it's also its own thing. But that all of

the blue sters moving in, we're going to

like totally change the politics and the

culture of Austin. I actually don't

think that's happened.

>> I think the blue sters that moved here

moved here because they recognized that

wherever they were living was not

tenable. Yeah, it was falling apart. And

all of these places like New York and

really California, like especially Los

Angeles and San Francisco, they're

falling apart.

>> And I have a bunch of friends that are

stuck there that can't move. Like maybe

they have family there or maybe they

have a business there. Y

>> and they [ __ ] hate it. And then I

have a bunch of people that are trying

to move but they can't sell their house.

>> Like it's nuts there, man. I don't think

people first of all you get gas lit by

Gavin Newsome. I mean he's just

gaslighting everybody about how well,

you know, oh the GDP of like the fifth

largest country in the world. That's

what California is.

>> It's like dude,

>> hey bro, it was like that before you

were the governor.

>> Yeah, exactly. Also, how much does a

U-Haul cost if you're leaving

California? And how much does it cost if

you're going in California? Because

that's the real measure of whether a

state's doing well.

>> Yeah. The state has more people moving

out than moving in. And that has never

happened before. Correct. California's

when I moved there in 1994 until I left,

it was always every year traffic got

worse. Every year more people moved

there. Every year. And

>> I loved it. I loved it. I loved it. From

the time I moved there, I was like,

"This place is great. It's warm all the

time. The weather's fantastic. There's

[clears throat] so much cool stuff to

do. The people are great.

>> Yeah.

>> And then politics ruined it.

>> That's right. So, my wife's from

Southern California, San Diego, and so

we spent a fair amount of time there.

And I I just, man, I still feel a

certain sense of like heartbreak over

LA. Oh,

>> because every time I'm in LA, you can

see why this was like the

quintessentially American city. The

architecture is beautiful. It's got its

own vibe going. Like you said, the

weather is amazing. And then you drive

through Skid Row and you're like, how

could any state or any city let this

happen?

>> Skidro is now 55 blocks.

It was 50 blocks just like a year or two

ago.

>> Okay. So my my first experience with

Skidro was so Usha used to work at this

like very fancy litigation firm in in

Southern California. Um you before she

was second lady, she was a corporate

litigator. So, there's a Christmas party

in downtown LA and you get these

instructions from her firm and they're

like this really convoluted way of this

is how you have to get to this Christmas

party. And I'm like, why do I have to

follow these direct directions? Why

don't I just put it in Google Maps,

right? This is like five or six, seven

years ago. So, we realized that the

reason why they gave you these

convoluted directions was so that you

could avoid Skid Row at night. And so

you get to this party, you drive through

Skidro if you follow Google Maps's

directions. You get there and it's like

this beautiful facility with like fancy

food and fancy wine and then there are

armed guards outside of it and these

gigantic walls. And I realized when I

was there, you know what this reminds me

of? This reminds me of going to the US

embassy in Porta Prince, Haiti. like

super security, crazy wealth and

privilege and status on the inside and

squalor and misery on the outside. Like

it's the first time I'd ever thought

America, like this part of America is

actually more like a third world country

than anything that I thought we'd ever

become.

>> Let me ask you this.

>> Yeah.

>> Why is it that large population centers

like places like Los Angeles and New

York are almost always run by the

Democrats? Yeah.

>> Like what is it about? First of all,

what happened with the last election in

Los Angeles, the just the primary I I

think was so super sus. And here's why

it's super sus.

>> Not just super sus that Spencer Platt,

Spencer Pratt, who was in second place,

got overtaken by Nithia Ramen in the

mailin ballots, but that the mail-in

ballots also passed a tax hike. The

people voted to pay more taxes.

>> Yep.

>> In a state where you have the highest

taxes.

>> That's right.

>> They're like, "We don't pay enough."

[laughter]

>> That is insane. And then when you have

direct evidence that they were

recruiting homeless people.

>> That's right.

>> And they were getting homeless people

and giving them cigarettes and cash.

There's evidence of this. To use their

their address and mail in ballots.

>> Yeah. I would have I wouldn't be the

Californian Joe who wakes up in the

morning and says, "You know what? I'm

going to go and vote for higher taxes. I

don't I don't pay enough taxes.

>> I I feel like we could fix this if I

just%

more taxes." The crazy thing about it,

too, is it's that okay, so after the

initial ballots all came in, it was

Karen Bass was number one, Spencer Pratt

was right right behind her, and then

number three, whatever this woman Ramen.

Okay. So, you would expect the mail and

ballots to be more or less like the

original ballots in terms of one, two,

and three. I'm not saying Spencer's

going to win the mail and ballots, but

it just so happened that the third place

person in relative terms did a lot

better than the first and second place

person

such that the Republican was actually

kicked out of the race so that there's

not actually a real election in

California. That to me was the crazy

part. It's like you were designing the

vote share in order to kick Pratt out

and put the third person into second

place. That to me is like very very

bizarre cuz what is the theory of the

mail and vote that is somehow like so

much more pro- Nithia relative to Karen

Bass?

>> Makes no sense.

>> Makes no sense.

>> Makes no sense. Why would it be? Why why

would it be? I mean Karen Karen Bass was

ahead by every metric.

>> Yeah. But I mean Okay. So you ask a

question. Why do all these blue states

or why do all these big cities

population centers end up becoming um

end up becoming blue? And I think it's

like very complicated, right? So, one

thing and you said this a few months ago

and like when you said it, I was like

kind of annoyed by it, but then I like

thought there's there's like an element

of truth to it, which is that

Republicans still fundamentally have a

cool problem, right? There's something

more charismatic, more cool about the

Democrats as opposed to the right.

>> And so you you said something about

>> there are too many dorks or something on

the right.

>> There's a lot of dorks,

>> you know. Fair. I'd say there's a lot of

dorks on the left.

>> There's a lot of dorks on the left, too.

It's a different kind of dork.

>> It's a different kind of dork. But the

the point is that there's something, you

know, like, okay, if you're a pop star,

you're a rock star, you're an actor,

you're in all these cultural centers,

you're more likely to be left than

right. And so I think that a lot of

young people who are attracted to these

population centers, they sort of move

along with the prevailing culture. I

think that's that's one thing that's

going on. I think a second thing that's

going on is the people who are sort of

attracted to a certain kind of right of

center politics. They want the suburbs.

They want the single family home. They

kind of want to be left alone. They

don't want sort of to be able to hear

what their neighbors are doing. So I

think a little bit of it's just cultural

self-segregation.

And that's meant that a lot of these

population centers have gone blue. But

it's very complicated. I've thought

about this a lot. And I also just man I

like I'm not one of these people who

says we should just abandon California

to the Democrats. Like let them deal

with their own problems. I think

California is like a quintessential part

of the American dream. Like if you just

abandon California, you've like lost

something very core to American culture.

And I I just I don't want to give up on

it. Like I'm not saying we're going to

win California in my lifetime

necessarily, but I don't like the idea

of giving up on it. Well, it's not just

giving up on I mean, giving up on it

would be terrible. It's an awesome

state. The the real problem is it's

deeply corrupt.

>> I mean, deeply deeply corrupt. And what

they're trying to do is make it

impossible for the other side to win.

Yeah.

>> And there should be laws against that.

First of all, the idea of mail-in

ballots for anybody other than people

who are invalids who can't live their

homes or military or people that for

some reason they're serving overseas,

they're doing something overseas,

>> it should not be legal, right?

>> And the fact that it became ubiquitous

during co is a giant problem.

>> Yeah. So, this raises one of my total

segue here, side point, but so if you

remember in the aftermath of the 2020

election where there was all this like

debate about was the election stolen,

was the election not stolen, all the

litigation that moved through,

>> there was a case in Pennsylvania that

like didn't get very much attention. And

I'm going to butcher it a little bit,

but basically it was a guy in a rural

area of Pennsylvania saying, "You're

underounting my vote because we didn't

have the opportunity to do the mail-in

ballots like they did in Philadelphia

and Pittsburgh." And like the argument

was a kind of disparit impact, right?

The cities jinned up all the mail and

balloting and the ballot harvesting. You

didn't do that in the country and that

hurt sort of our representation. So they

take this case to the Pennsylvania

courts. And what's crazy is the

Pennsylvania courts basically say,

you're making kind of a good point here.

Like the ballot harvesting did affect

Republicans in a more negative way. It

did mean that certain people in the more

rural parts of the state were

underrepresented. But then the court

conclusion was this is not a problem a

court can fix. Like that's a political

problem. Change your, you know, local

elections leaders, change your laws.

Like that's not a remedy that the court

has to fix. And so everybody saw that

case and they're like, "Oh, the judge

rules against Donald Trump, rules

against Republicans for saying that

there was something illegitimate." But

no, actually the judge kind of said,

"There is something kind of fishy here.

We're just the wrong venue to fix it."

>> Well, it it's just very disheartening

that you you have to consider the fact

that it's really possible that the

elections get stolen. And the California

one was a big one for me. And why not

just have mail in or why not just have

voter ID?

>> Yeah, you actually that's insane. Not

only did they not have voter ID, you

can't show your ID. You're not allowed

to show your ID.

>> You can in fact be like prosecuted if

you try to force somebody to show their

ID,

>> which is that seems like you want people

to cheat.

>> Exactly. [laughter]

>> And is this from the same people that

were saying you have to have an ID that

shows you've been vaccinated just four

years ago to go to grocery shopping or

to go to restaurant? Yeah. No, it's it's

definitely that's the part about it that

I think makes most people of my

political persuasion skeptical of what

the Democrats are doing. Like if you

don't want to cheat in the election,

then just make everybody actually show

an ID. What another thing people don't

realize is I didn't realize this until a

couple years ago, the voter ID solves a

lot of the mail-in ballot problem

because if you have to show an ID in

order to get a mail and ballot in order

to actually, you know, confirm that

there's a real identification attached

to that vote, that solves a big chunk of

the problem.

>> It's just logical. Like [laughter] I

don't I'm not

I'm not skeptical. I'm accusing them. I

think they stole the election.

>> Yes. And I'm I'm I think it's common and

I you know this idea that elections

can't be stolen. I always say to people,

okay, do you think that the amount of

election fraud is 0%.

>> No one thinks that.

>> Yeah.

>> No one thinks it's zero. There's always

some overzealous person that works

somewhere that's doing something.

There's always crazy people. They're

like, "Blue no matter who, we got to win

or red no matter what." There's always

people right and left that are going to

try to rig the election because they

think it's imperative our n like look we

we saw there was people like Oprah

Winfrey was saying it like if we don't

win this election we you may never vote

again like what the [ __ ] are you talking

about [laughter] like why what who's

going to tolerate that left or right

that's crazy right

>> but that attitude allows people to

justify cheating

>> correct

>> and I think they cheat and I I think

they've been doing it forever and I

don't think there's any other reason why

you would have no voter ID? And they try

to say, "Oh, it's racist to have voter

ID." Like, what are you talking about?

Do you think other races are incapable

of going to the DMV? That's insane.

>> It's it's that's racist.

>> It's actually super racist. That's

really racist.

>> The implication of their argument is

literally like blacks and Hispanics

cannot go to the DMV to get an ID. By

the way, if you look at the polling,

black Americans are as pro- voter ID.

Even though they you most black

Americans vote Democrat, they're still

pro- voter ID as much as white Americans

is. Most Americans are voter. They want

voter ID except for operatives.

>> So I'll offer on the Joe Rogan podcast

this deal as vice president of these

United States that if Democrats really

don't think that there's any cheating,

give us voter ID.

>> I just don't know.

>> Give us voter ID and we'll stop talking.

>> Why is that not a federal thing?

>> We are trying to make it a federal

thing. So, we are right now trying to

pass the Save America Act. One of its

main provisions is a requirement that

you do voter ID. And we actually have, I

think, a majority of the Senate that

would support it. But this is just weird

Senate procedural [ __ ] There is a

subsegment of people who want voter ID,

but won't blow up the filibuster in

order to achieve it. And so they're so

married to these oldw world Senate

procedures that they're going to make it

impossible for us to pass Save America.

Now we we are for what it's worth trying

to fix that and trying to address these

like weird procedural archaic things.

It's insane though. Like if you ever

Okay,

>> I'm sure you hear people talk about the

filibuster all the time. I don't want to

go too far down this rabbit hole.

>> Here's what the filibuster is. It is a

pure Senate rule. It is a creation of

the Senate procedures which basically

says that anything that has to do with

the budget is a 50 vote threshold and

anything that everything else

non-budgetary is a 60 vote threshold.

Now, as you can imagine, there's some

gray area on things that maybe are count

as budget issues and should be 50 or are

not budget issues and count at 60. So

what we have tried to persuade the

Senate to do is to treat the voter ID as

something that can fall within the 50

vote threshold. And there is no law,

there's no provision in the

Constitution. It is legitimately that

there are senators who are so attached

to the idea that budget is 50,

non-budget is 60 that they're quite

literally willing to prevent voter ID in

America.

>> God,

it's nuts, dude. It's it's so crazy

>> and it's also like the idea that

>> somehow or like Kathy Hol had the

craziest take on it. Did you

>> She often does.

>> Did you see her take on it?

>> I have not.

>> She was talking about black people in

inner cities not even knowing what a

computer is.

>> Did you ever see that?

>> No, I didn't see that.

>> Oh my god, it was so crazy. And then

this one comedian, uh, this black

comedian did this hilarious video where

he was like circling around a computer,

staring at it, like touching it like he

didn't know what it was. [laughter]

>> It's just like, what are you talking

about? Everyone has a phone. That's a

computer.

>> So many of these Democratic talking

points presume that their own voters are

actual idiots.

>> That's actually there there's a big

difference between, you know,

Republicans, we sort of presume that our

voters are adults. And you don't see

that with a I'm not saying every

Democrat, of course, I don't want to

cast too broad of a brush here, but it's

it's like, you know, Gavin Newsome did

this speech a few months ago. The

president, I think it's the funniest

thing ever because he's like speaking to

a group of black leaders and black

businessmen, but it's like an audience

that is 95% black. And they're asking

him about his dyslexia and his struggle

with education. And he basically says,

"Yeah, you know, um, I'm not very smart

like a lot of you." And it's like,

>> I'm like you. I can't read. Can't even

read.

Well, there's a ton of interviews where

he's [laughter] talking about all the

books he reads. Like, he's so full of

[ __ ] He's

>> He's full of [ __ ] but it's

>> admirably full of [ __ ] [laughter]

>> It's It's I admire the the the [ __ ]

the sheer tenacity that he has in being

full of [ __ ]

>> I I It really is amazing. But it it

speaks to the incentives of there's kind

of like look, there's a real populism

that I'm very much a fan of because I

think you should be responsive to

people, but there's like a faux populism

of the way that I'm going to appeal to

people is by assuming that they're

idiots and acting like they're idiots.

Yeah.

>> And then but but if you if you're

committed enough to that bit, eventually

it kind of leaks out what you're doing.

>> And I think that's that was sort of what

Gavin did there is he told on himself a

bit. [laughter]

>> Yeah. Well, it was just it's just he's

bizarre.

>> I will say I bizarre.

>> So, I've only met Gavin I think I've

only met him one time in my life and it

was it's such a crazy experience. So,

the debate between Biden and Trump

during the 2024 cycle and I'm there I'm

actually doing an interview for a

documentary when the debate starts and

there's this clip of me. The debate

starts. I'm in the middle of this

interview. There's a big screen behind

me as I'm talking to the camera, which

is here, and I kind of freeze and I look

back at the the the TV and I'm like, "Oh

my god, like this is actually happening.

Biden is imploding." Because if you

remember, it was obvious from the

get-go. So, I go to the spin room

afterwards and that's where, you know,

all these reporters and all the

surrogates of the candidates, this is

before I was the VP nominee and I'm just

like, you know, talking about how great

the president did, how bad President

Biden did. Okay, I see Gavin Newsome

there and he literally looks like he's

seen a ghost. Like I've I've never seen

a person who, as good of a bullshitter

as he is, who realized there was no

selling that performance. Like, but can

you imagine like try to put yourself in

the perspective of a human being? I

always try to, you know, be empathetic

where Joe Biden has just had that debate

and you have to go on CNN to talk about

how great of a job Joe Biden did. Well,

my favorite is Joe Scarboro because Joe

Scarro before it was like, you know, I'm

gonna say something and f you if you

can't take it. This is the sharpest

Biden we've ever seen. Have you ever

seen that?

>> No, I haven't.

>> Oh, it's amazing. And then after the

debate, he's like, "We got to get rid of

him. He's [laughter] got to go. He's got

to go, hey, hey, hey, what what what did

you say? You just said a couple of

months ago, this is the best Biden

ever."

>> That's wild. Well, it's like I wonder

what was going on with that cuz like the

debates were earlier than they've ever

been before and it seemed to me it's

like there was a concerted effort to

hide what was wrong with him.

>> 100%

>> 100%. Everybody was bullshitting.

Everybody was gaslighting us. We all saw

it. I I remember a friend of mine who's

>> super progressive, super liberal. You

know [snorts] what I I talked about on

our podcast. I'm like, "This is crazy.

even if he wins, he's not going to be

the guy that's the president. You're

going to have his cabinet that are

running everything. Turned out I was

right.

>> They were saying, "Oh, don't you

understand that he has a stutter?"

>> And I said, "Where the [ __ ] was that

stutter in the 1990s?" Like that's

crazy. [laughter] Like a stutter that

only shows up when you're 80. That

doesn't make any sense.

>> Like this is a lie. You're lying. He's

had two brain surgeries like where they

have to take the top of your head off.

Literally, they have to take you like a

cap. They

>> Wait, Biden had two brain surgeries?

>> Oh, yeah.

>> How did I not know this?

>> You didn't know this?

>> I didn't know that he had two brain

surgeries.

>> He had two brain surgeries. Jimmy,

please look this up. Make sure that I'm

right. I'm 99% sure I'm right. But I

know he had

a refund afterwards.

>> Well, it kept [laughter] him alive. It

kept him alive. I mean, he here Biden

has not undergone recent brain surgery.

He underwent two successful lifesaving

>> Oh wow.

>> brain surgeries to repair two inter

incraanial aneurysms in 1988.

>> Know this?

>> Yeah,

>> that's pretty crazy.

>> His medical professionals have stated

that he made a full recovery and

suffered no lasting brain damage or

cognitive impairment from these

procedures. Oh, it's from the Washington

Post, so you know it's accurate and

definitely not biased at all. And these

medical professionals, were those the

same people that said that the COVID

vaccine is safe and effective? Um, it's

it's we we live in a wonderful time for

[ __ ] It's like because they just

[ __ ] you right to your face. Like he

had two brain surgeries, like major

brain surgeries, cuz he's having

aneurisms.

>> I don't care who you are, that's

probably going to do some damage.

>> It's going to leave some aneurisms, a

real problem. It's a real thing. Your

brain

people die from aneurysms all the time.

See, that's the crazy thing is I never

even knew about that.

>> How did you not know about that? That's

nuts. I knew about it. Well, it speaks

to how constrained our media environment

is that even I had never heard that,

>> right? It was not a part of the

narrative. Certainly not from the

Democrats, but yeah, he's it was clearly

I just don't understand why they ran him

in the first place.

>> The the whole thing made no sense. And

then to have no primary and just stick

Kla in there and then all a sudden

pretend that she's the best thing ever.

And like this idea, like complete flip

of her being the least popular vice

president ever, always sticking her foot

in her mouth, always saying crazy [ __ ]

How dare we say Merry Christmas? You

remember that one?

>> Like what the [ __ ] is What are you

saying? Like joy is bad. Merry Christmas

is bad.

>> Legitimately when the campaign

consultants told me, "Hey, we're going

to hit this line because Kla Harris came

out in favor of taxpayerf funed sex

changes for illegal aliens. And

[laughter] I and I remember thinking to

myself, come on, you guys. Like, she

didn't really say that. It's taken out

of context. And then I go and look at

it. I'm like, holy [ __ ] she actually

said that. And she was she really was

like the very worst version of what the

Democrats were producing in 2020. The

thing is, it was they were all doing it

because that was the incentives of the

party. Like if you remember that debate

where it was do you want taxpayer funded

Medicare for illegal aliens which like

Medicare is the program to provide

health care to the elderly that people

pay into for like you know your entire

working life. You see your little

Medicare tax statement and the idea that

we were going to give taxpayer funded

healthcare to illegal aliens. It was

just insane. It was a 9010 issue but

their party in 2020 got kind of taken

over by the radicals. And I I think

actually maybe you're seeing a little

bit of that happening right now where it

seems like the radical organizations,

the nonprofits, the donors are pushing

the party in a direction that most of

the voters haven't gone in. Like you ask

why Joe Biden was the nominee and I'll

I'll say something in defense of Joe

Biden. So like was he the most effective

politician? No. Had he had two brain

surgeries? Yes. And clearly had shown

the negative signs of aging. But he was

kind of the only candidate, if you go

back to 2020, who could hold together

like the reasonable middle class black

American in the Atlanta suburbs with

whatever is going on on the far left of

the Democrat party. And I think this is

sort of the issue their party has. I

mean, our like to be candid, our party

has its own coalition problems. And it's

it's always tough in a two-party system

to hold everybody together. Like I think

about this a lot. I think it's really

tough on the Democrats because the core

of their party, like the most important

voting block in the Democratic party is

middle-class black Americans, socially

moderate to even socially conservative,

maybe a little bit more economically

populist on certain business and tax

issues. You know, they don't want to

give tax breaks to major corporations.

They also don't want to trans the kids.

That's the base of their party. But then

you've also got like the crazy people

and you have to kind of hold that

together. I think the argument for Biden

was he was one of the only people who

could hold that together even though he

was an awful politician in his own right

even before he was like old.

>> He was he was Obama's vice president.

>> Exactly.

>> And you know he's established he's a

known name and for the people that were

kind of casuals who weren't really

paying attention to politics like he's a

proven commodity.

>> That's right. He doesn't read as a crazy

person to the general electorate

>> even though you know

>> I got hairy legs [laughter]

>> when he tells stories like I tell you

about cord pop. Like what

>> the [ __ ] is going on?

>> The thing I couldn't get over Biden is

is just bad staff work, man. The way

that he ate ice cream. I mean, it's

like, you know, we could bring some of

this stuff up, but it's like they would

get him eating ice cream in the most

ridiculous suggestive way imaginable.

>> I never even paid attention.

>> Oh my god. Like such bad optics. Okay.

So, there's there's a clip I want to say

from the 2016

um campaign where somebody is

campaigning in Iowa and like it's the

Iowa State Fair is like one of the main

things you go to when when you're

running for president and they give

somebody a corn dog and somebody eats

the corn dog and it becomes like a major

news cycle for a long time and I I will

never forget in 2024 [laughter] in 2020.

>> That's how immature we are.

>> I know. I know. You got to have a little

fun sometimes though. But in 2024,

somebody is holding up a sign at the

Iowa State Fair at I think it may have

been Vakes, one of Aakes's event, Vake

Rama Swami's events, and the sign says,

"Eat the corn dogs, you coward." And

it's [laughter] one of the best the best

political signs I've ever seen.

>> That's funny. That's funny. Yeah. You

You'd have to be a very manly man to be

able to eat a confidently confidently

eat a corn dog.

>> I don't know that I can do it, Joe.

>> I eat them. They're good.

>> Yeah, but they taste good. Are you I

love corn dogs. I've been photographed.

You've been photographed eating a corn

dog.

>> I'm sure someone has.

>> One of [laughter]

>> I've eaten corn dogs. The odds are

>> much more interesting life than I've

led. I I try I try to eat my corn dogs.

That's between that's between me and my

uh my kitchen.

>> I'm not scared to eat a corn dog.

[laughter] I just think it's funny that

people just they're so afraid of being

[snorts]

>> anything that looks like a dick.

>> You can't bananas, corn dogs.

>> You got to be [laughter]

you got to be careful when you're

politics. This is an optics based

business here.

>> What are those popsicles? The ones that

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I get it. I mean, but it's just

like that's how crazy we are. That

that's what weirds people out. The way

someone eats a hot dog.

>> That's

>> like Okay.

>> Well, that's that's where we are, man.

>> Yeah.

>> I

>> It's the the difference between, you

know, the crazies and the the the real

reasonable Democrats is so stark to me.

I did I and it's also with the right.

It's like we're always the parties are

always defined by the worst examples of

the right. That's right. You know. Yeah.

Or or of the left, you know, whatever it

is, whether it's uh Patriot Front or

whether it's uh Antifa.

>> Okay. So, who do you think is the worst

example of our side? Like who who do you

read about on our side and your reaction

is, "Holy shit." And don't say JD Vance.

This is going to be a very awkward

interview.

>> Um

>> I'm screwed with you. Well, the the

people that you know, one of the thing I

had James Tarico on the podcast and one

of the things that I think he has a

really good point about even though I

know you're Catholic and you're very

religious, putting the Ten Commandments

in schools um I don't think is the right

way to do. And this is a guy Terrico who

was in seminary and is very Christian.

Mhm.

>> He just thinks that even though he

believes in the Ten Commandments, if

you're just only representing the

Christian faith in these schools, you're

forcing your religion into other

people's lives and that this is going to

push people away from Christianity

rather than encourage them to uh pursue

it.

>> Yeah. I mean, I think you'd never want

to force things on people. And I I do I

think one of the core Christian

contributions to Western civilization is

the idea of freedom of religion. It's

actually very much a Christian idea

because you recognize the dignity of

each individual. And part of recognizing

that dignity is that each person has to

find their own pathway to God. You can't

force this on anybody. I don't think

putting the Ten Commandments up in

school is like forcing things on

anybody.

>> But it's public schools. So I mean, if

you're going to do that, why not put

Buddhist scripture? Why not put, you

know, you Muslims stuff? You could you

could you could make an argument why you

should have a bunch of different

religious tenants in schools.

>> I think in the Supreme Court there

actually are a lot of different sort of

historical, cultural, legal documents

that are up there. And I I want to say

that Moses coming down with a tablet is

one of them, but I I think there

actually are other cultural and maybe

even other religious elements of this

like where you recognize that a big part

of sort of the lawgiving tradition in

Western civilization is the um is some

of these religious texts, not

exclusively Christian religious texts.

Obviously some Jewish there's like a an

important contribution from the Muslim

world in this. So I I don't I I guess I

don't think of it as exclusionary while

also recognizing that, you know, America

is a society. Our founders were people

who were very much influenced even if

they weren't Christians, a lot of them

of course were, but were very influenced

by Christian culture and articulating

American law. So my argument would be

even if you're not a Christian, like

does seeing the Ten Commandments,

let me put it a slightly different way.

Does seeing the Ten Commandments force

religion on a non-Christian child? I

mean, my argument would be no. And I'd

illustrate this by saying, well, there

are all of these ways in which you

actually could try to force religion on

a child, right? Well, it's not the worst

way to force religion on a child, but to

have it and not represent any other rel.

This is Texas, by the way. Sure. So what

he's talking about was that there's

these Christian nationalists, these

these guys that are very wealthy that

are trying to fund Christian schools and

trying to defund public schools or any

other kind of religious school and what

they want to do and and they passed this

to get the Ten Commandments in all

public school classes. and he's

fundamentally opposed to that as a

Christian because he thinks it's going

to force people to have this in their

class and it's gonna push people away

from Christianity.

>> I mean, I understand the argument. I

just don't see it that way. I mean, I I

I guess if if I I I hear you, but if I'm

a non-religious student and I'm sitting

in there and I see the Ten Commandments,

at the very least, I think I can

appreciate it. I mean I you know what I

thought about this one sort of

>> what if you're a Hindu what if you're a

Muslim and you know and you are seeing

that represented but not your faith.

Well, it's a public school. F

>> first of all, I think that you you I

mean I I'm pretty sure Muslims I'm not

hardly an expert on Islam, but I I think

all of the Abrahamic faiths recognize

the Ten Commandments as like a

significant thing, but I think if I was

a Hindu looking at the Ten Commandments,

I mean, again, it's hard for me to say

this right from my my perspective, but I

certainly went through an atheist phase

in my in my youth. And what I would see

that as as a non-religious person or a

different religion is I would say this

is like an important cultural element of

the western civilization which is the

foundation of the classroom that I'm

sitting in. And this idea that the law

comes in is sort of above any man even

if you don't believe in God yourself. I

think that's like an important concept.

I mean, if you look at the Ten

Commandments, probably eight of them are

something that I would hope that

everybody would agree with, even if

they're that not themselves religious.

>> So, I I guess here's my my view on it.

Like, I would not be offended if I sat

in a classroom as a Christian or if my

kids sat in a classroom as a Christian

and saw, you know, a religious text that

wasn't Christian on on the wall. I would

encourage them to see that. No, I'd

encourage them to see that as a learning

experience to try to understand.

>> What if it was from the Quran? What do a

bunch of

>> I guess it depends on what it was,

right? If it's if it's like something

crazy, but but no, I mean, if if if it's

if it's something that is like

culturally interesting, I I guess I

don't I don't have a problem with my kid

reading.

>> The problem is it's mandated. Like if

you have a classroom and the teacher is

Christian and the teacher wants to have

it in their classroom, maybe that's one

thing. But if you're mandating that

you're going to have the Ten

Commandments in classrooms, that's a

different thing because now you're

you're pushing Christianity on kids. And

this is Terico's position. And as a

Christian, he's saying I think this is

going to push children away from

Christianity.

>> So I again I I I understand what he's

saying. I just I think that part of

living in a society where you have

different people of different

perspectives, but you do have I mean

Christianity is the majority religion of

the United States. It is the religion

that was extraordinary influential to

our founding to the constitutional

principles. Again, freedom of religion

is itself not really a liberal concept.

It was originally derived um from from

from a Christian idea about free will

and the dignity of the person. I think

part of that is that you accept that

you're going to have exposure to

different things. And if a if a state

legislator in a majority Christian state

wants, it's not like they're putting the

Ten Commandments in front of these kids

and saying, "You have to read this and,

you know, write it 500 times a day."

They're exposing kids to something. And

I'm comfortable with kids being exposed

to a lot of different things. I think

that's part of living in a society where

there's a free exchange of ideas. And

what I what I worry about with

Tallerico's sort of perspective here is

is again I'm not saying that I I don't

want kids to be exposed to anything that

is outside of the Christian cannon. Like

I I I actually want my kids exposed to

things. I I write about this in the book

that I think it's important to have a

grounded enough faith that you can

engage with a lot of different ideas and

still ultimately you know sort of hold

on to your to your Christian faith. But

isn't part of just living in a like

pluralistic democracy that people are

going to be exposed to different things?

And you know, I I would kind of put it

on Tallerico in a slightly different way

that for a long time in this country,

there were actually Supreme Court

rulings that said that you cannot pray

in a school, even a a student

organization led by the students, or

that you cannot put the Ten Commandments

up, even a teacher who chose to do it in

their own classroom. And so I think

you're always kind of trying to strike

this balance, you know, given that we

have the first amendment in this country

between allowing the practice of

religious faith in public spaces and

possibly forcing religion on other

people. I think you have to strike that

balance the right way. I guess I just

say is the if the Ten Commandments being

in a classroom is the thing that you

think is forcing religion on somebody,

was he equally offended when the Ten

Commandments were like quite literally

prohibited from being listed in

building?

>> I don't know if he was offended by that

or if he was opposed to that. But the

idea of being exposed to it is one

thing. It being mandatory is another.

And to mandate that in classrooms is a

different thing because you're promoting

clearly promoting Christianity. And his

position is that promoting Christianity

in that way is going to have an opposite

effect on children. You're pushing it on

them instead. You're not just exposing

it to them. You're pushing it on them.

And especially if you're pushing it on

children who come from a household that

has a different faith. I guess I just

think the balance in our country the

last 30 40 years has actually been much

more in the other direction which is

that we try to completely remove

religion from the public square and I

think that's that's that poses its own

problems because you know people

practice their faith in all kinds of

ways. We think that that's the

responsibility of churches and and

synagogues and where that like if you

want and and in the community if you

want to promote religion promote it that

way. But promoting in public schools

should be just educational. And if

you're in a religious class and a a

class is teaching about religion, that's

a different story.

>> Well, you're right. It's certainly the

responsibility of churches and

synagogues and mosques and so forth. But

I also think that, you know, the the the

late Supreme Court Chief Justice William

Ranquist sort of said this that if your

approach to religion in public life

always and everywhere is to push it out

of the public square, then you're

actually embracing a religion of your

own in the public square, which is

secularism. You're just taking one

religion and replacing it with

secularism. And I guess what I'm saying

is I'm kind of comfortable with people

of different faiths sharing the public

square together. But part of that is

that if if I'm in a 95% Christian

community and my local city council

wants to put up a nativity display on

on, you know, Christmas Eve, I'm okay

with that. And that was actually like

for a long time in our country actually

prohibited. Yeah.

>> And so what what I think is that we got

we we we sort of put ourselves in this

frame in this country where we said

every public display of religion is

somehow illegitimate. But I I I mean I

don't know. I I try to live my faith in

a way that's consistent across different

spheres of my life. You know, I don't

preach to people. I don't like to walk

into the White House tell my employees,

you know, you need to be you need to

follow Jesus as your Lord and Savior. I

just try to live my life in a way that

hopefully makes people a little curious

about what you know, what motivates me

and what inspires me. But I also don't

think that the expectation should be

that we tell religious people they're

not allowed to be religious in the

public square because I think that's

what we've done over the last 30 or 40

years. I guess, you know, we can agree

to disagree. I see the Texas thing as an

an attempt to correct that. This episode

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today. Well, I think living by example

is probably the best promotion of any

good way to live your life, whether it's

Christianity or any other religion. I

think that's definitely the way to do

it. But the the point is that this is

being promoted by very wealthy people

who are Christian nationalists who who

want this to be uh they want it to what

is going on here, Jimmy? What you got?

Bible stories become required reading in

Texas public schools. Yeah. See? Well,

now that's a you're taking it to another

level. So, this is June 26. This is very

recently.

Um

that is that kind of thinking and

that kind of mindset is uh what bothers

me the most about some Republicans.

>> I see what you mean. Um, and then

there's the there's people that again

they live their life in a very beautiful

way and they follow the teachings of

Jesus Christ and they're very admirable

and I think that's very attractive and

it makes people very curious about that

religion. I think that brings people to

Christ and I think it brings people to

religion.

>> Sure. But then there's people like, did

you read that report uh that came from

at the start of the Iran war where uh

there was a guy who was an officer uh

non-commissioned officer who was uh at a

a briefing and this guy came in and was

explaining to them that they didn't need

to be afraid because this war was

important because Trump had been

anointed by Jesus Christ to bring about

his return. And the way they were going

to Jesus is going to return is by

bombing Iran. [laughter]

>> I did not see that report.

>> That sounds pretty far out there to me.

>> This is the kind of right-wing I see

>> thinking. So here it is. Military

commander tells troops bombing Iran is

part of God's divine plan. So, we

started getting calls in the wee hours

of Saturday morning from people saying

their commanders were just jubilant

about this, trying to tell people,

"Don't worry, it's all part of God's

plan. Uh, they promised a 200 mile long

river that is 4 and 1/2 ft deep, filled

with nothing but the blood that their

weaponized version of Jesus will spill

at the battle of Armageddon." Weinstein

said, u what what was the one uh there

was a there was an article where the guy

was explaining the actual quotes that

the the one uh officer was telling him

>> the one commander.

Uh yeah, but it's not that there was is

very specific. He was it was very

specific what he said.

Um, I mean, for what it's worth, my my

attitude on this stuff is I mean, first

of all, as a Christian, you sort of

believe that everything is is part of

God's plan, even things that are

ultimately very terrible. I mean, you

kind of have to make

>> it. Let me let me read the quote. He

urged us to tell our troops that this

was all part of God's divine plan. And

he specifically referenced numerous

citations out of the book of Revelations

referring to Armageddon and the imminent

return of Jesus Christ. He said that

President Trump had been anointed by

Jesus to light the signal fire in Iran

to cause Armageddon and mark his return

to Earth.

>> Okay.

>> If I'm in that meeting, I'm like, "Hit

[laughter] the brakes.

Hit the brakes." What?

>> Well, that's that's where you need some

of the psychedelics we talked about at

the last Joe Rogan JD Vance

conversation. [laughter]

>> That would definitely help.

>> I mean, my my response first of all,

like obviously, do I endorse that? No.

Do I think that it's important that

people reign it in a little bit? Because

I'm sure you're right. There were a lot

of troops there, probably a lot of

Christian troops there who were like,

uh, I'm not sure this is exactly right.

Right.

>> But the the important point is I think

it's important as a Christian leader, as

Christians, period. One of the things we

have to do is just have humility in the

face of of God's plan. There's a lot

that we don't understand. There's a lot

that we don't get. And I think

especially on matters of war and peace,

the approach that I try to take is you

try to make the best decisions that you

can. You hope that you're on God's side.

You don't assume that God has taken your

side. That's a that's a very famous

Abraham Lincoln quote. And that's the

attitude that I take. So for that, what

I, you know, what I would encourage that

NCO to say is, you know what, God is in

control. We don't know what's going to

happen, but let's pray and try to do as

good of a job as we can trusting in God.

If I was speaking to a group of

Christian troops, that's what I would

say.

>> But you're speaking to a group of

troops. You don't know if they're

Christian. You don't know. I mean,

you're essentially letting these people

know that you believe that Trump was

anointed by Jesus to bomb Iran so that

Jesus can come back to Earth.

>> Come back in a firearm.

>> I'd be like, "Can I get the [ __ ] out of

here?"

>> No, I hear you, man. I hear you. Look,

yes. And uh I I uh that's that is the

first that I have ever heard of this

particular story. How have you not heard

of this and Biden's two brain surgeries?

>> Apparently, I live in a bunker, man.

[laughter]

>> How do you not know about these things?

>> Wild. I Okay, here's the other thing

I'll say is is

having heard about this for the first

time just now. To your point about the

media,

>> I do think it's possible, let's be

honest, that whatever that dude said,

maybe it was good, maybe it was bad, has

been misreported by the press. So, I

always have a filter on this stuff. Like

I don't automatically assume.

>> It's also possible that this is the

other thing. He said the commander

supposedly had a big grin on his face

when he said all this, which made his

message seem even more crazy.

>> And I think that's again

>> I don't think anybody should have um

war is sometimes necessary, but it's

never a good thing. And that I think

that's like a fundamental Christian

principle is there are just wars, there

are necessary wars, but war is always

something that you try to avoid,

>> right? But saying that this is what's

being referenced in the book of

Revelation,

>> dude. I think that's I think that is

nuts. I also don't know that that, you

know, I want to be conf I want to

confirm that it's a person actually said

that before teeing off on it because

what that sounds to me is like somebody

butchering or misrepresenting something

that you know somebody that I know might

have said

>> quite possible. So you got to be

careful. Also quite possible that you

got a really looney guy who is a

Christian nationalist who is a commander

and who is in this position where he's

actually excited because he does think

that this is a holy [laughter] war and

this is going to bring back Jesus.

>> Well, it's certainly possible. I mean,

America's got 330 million people and

we've got a lot of people who believe in

a lot of things. But I can assure you

that we don't encourage people to talk

like that. And again, all I can do as a

Christian leader, I'll look into that

story certainly, but all I can do as a

Christian leader is talk about how I

think about questions of war and peace,

which is we try to do the right thing.

We try to figure out what it is that is

consistent with Christ's moral teaching

and we try to, you know, comport our

foreign policy with the cause of

justice. And that's what we try to do,

recognizing it's always going to be