We're going to be talking about this

Lindsay Clancy trial. So, in

Massachusetts, there w there is a woman

named Lindseay Clancy, and she w was a

mother of three, and uh there is there's

currently she is on trial for the murder

of her children. And so, part of her

defense

is that she was

psychotic. Um, and we'll explain what

that means, and so therefore is not

responsible for the death of her

children. And why am I talking about it?

Because it's not just the trial. So,

we're going to start off by talking a

little bit about the trial, going over

some of the documents, but what's really

interesting is like the internet

phenomenon this has become. And the

internet phenomenon this has become is

getting like really weird. Like, so I

want to just show you guys stuff like

this. So, you're really breaking up with

me over aing opinion. I'm not breaking

up with you over an opinion. I'm

breaking up with you because you that

opinion showed me a fundamental

difference in our values. I can have

compassion for someone struggling with

me struggling mentally without excusing

what happened to those children. If I'm

choosing someone to potentially be the

mother of my kids, I need to trust their

judgment completely, especially when it

comes to protecting them. What you said

created a doubt in me that I can't

ignore or gamble my future children on.

So, like this has gotten to the point

where like it's starting to impact

all kinds of things and and this is

something that that even has has crossed

my plate. So, 2 days ago, my wife was

like, "Hey, I don't think you're taking

this Lindsy Clansancy thing seriously

enough." And I was like really surprised

by that. So, that there's something

going on here where this is not just the

case. The rapid interest in the Lindsey

Clansancy case is uncovering so many

things about what is going on with us as

a society and what is wrong with us as a

society. And so this is going to be like

not a simple take. There's a really good

chance that no matter what you believe,

whether you she believe she's guilty,

whether you believe she's compassion,

deserves compassion, whether you believe

this guy is justified in breaking up

with her, whether you believe that a

woman is justified with breaking up with

her male partner because they're not

supportive enough of Lindsay Clancy.

Like, whatever you believe, there's a

decent chance I'm going to piss you off.

So, I'll give you guys just a simple

example. So, one of the things that's

going on is that a lot of women on

social media

believe that Lindsay Clancy is basically

being framed by her husband and her

husband is really the guilty party.

She's taking the fall for it. He

divorced her a few months after this

happened. A and so there's like this

whole element. What I realize is like a

lot of these people are operating on

like women's intuition, right? Because

one of the weird things that I've

learned as a psychiatrist is to I know

it sounds weird, believe my female

patients. And I'm not trying to be like

a champion of feminism here. I'm just

saying like when a patient comes into my

office, my approach is you know what, if

a patient says something, let me at

least see if it's true instead of

assuming it's not true. And there's

evidence that

So here's where I piss everybody off.

But women's intuition is not

significantly superior to men's

intuition. But that there are some

features. What women's intu what women

are better at is like reading facial

emotions. Okay. But if men if it matters

to men, we we are basically in the same

ballpark. But women are able to detect

disongruity.

This is kind of my clinical take. So

what I understand women's intuition to

be is they can tell that something is

off, but it doesn't tell them

necessarily what the truth is. That's

how I understand it based on my

experience. So when when a when when I

have a female patient and they tell me,

hey, I think something bad is going to

happen,

like I think it's really worth digging

into it because the conclusion that

their mind jumps to is not necessarily

correct, but the suspicion that their

mind has absolutely is based on

something. That's the what I the

assumption that I operate under. Does

that make sense? And that nuance I think

is completely lost on social media. What

fascinates me as a psychiatrist is like,

"Hold on a second." So, she's being

tried by the state of Massachusetts for

murder. So, this is the government

against Lindsay Clancy. And they're

saying she murdered her children. Her

defense is not that she did not kill her

children. Her defense is that she was

psychotic when it happened. There's a

second lawsuit which is she and her

ex-husband on behalf of their children

are suing all manner of psychiatric

providers. It's a civil lawsuit that

says, "You guys did not take care of me

appropriately. That's why my kids died.

It's your fault that this happened." So,

what's really interesting to me about

this is like even the defense

does not dispute that she killed her

children. sort of and there's even on on

the record she has confessed to kidding

killing her children and yet this is

still happening right a lot of people

believe this now this is what's going to

piss everybody off so if you're someone

who believes this and I make this

statement you're already like oh my god

Dr. Okay, you're one of them. You're one

of the people who doesn't understand.

You're one of the enemy. And then on the

flip side, there's going to be a lot of

people that are like, "Duh, bro." Like,

duh. Like, she confessed to killing. I

don't understand how people can believe

that this is not factually correct.

Like, what on earth is going on? How is

this guy like what is going on? And and

this is this is where this is where I

get curious. How does someone get from

the the person herself claims or does

not dispute that she killed her children

to she's being framed? And this is where

I'm going to piss everybody off because

this is exactly what's wrong with the

world today. We have a world today where

so many people are behaving so

irrationally. And what we tend to do is

make no attempt to understand. What we

do is blame. What we do is call them

stupid. And if you're like, "Haha, yeah,

like all those stupid people, all those

stupid women on the internet who are

like think that it's a conspiracy,

they're like they're all dumb." No, this

is this is my point. I I want y'all to

understand this. This is happening

across the globe to all manner of

people. This is just one pimple that is

like popping. The reason that there is

so much conflict in the world, if you

ask me, Dr. K, what is the one thing? If

you had to pick one thing that is the

root of the world's problems today, and

I don't mean a person's problem, I mean

the world's problems. Why is there so

much strife? Why is there so much war?

Why is there so much political stuff?

Why is there a gender divide? Like what

is going on? We have birth rates that

are low. Like everyone everything's

getting worse. Why? And it's one simple

thing. Because we are no longer living

in the same reality. So, I I've been

following this trial and I've been

following this trial on Reddit and my

wife has been following this trial and

she's been following it on Instagram.

And the interesting thing is that our

perceptions of the trial are completely

different. And the more that a human

being gets data, like the more that they

see something, and this is what

algorithms are doing. I think like

literally algorithms are destroying

society because if I spend eight hours a

day in front of a screen and the

platform is like okay we're gonna give

you what you like this is not a problem

right now the Dota 2 international is

going on so my feed is full of Dota 2

international stuff which I love like

that's why I use the platform right like

I want to hear what's going on what's

going on in the interview who won who

lost right so this is the way the

internet like like the whole purpose of

the internet is that when you use it

shows you things that you're interested

in. But somehow we have gotten so good

at this that we have now become

distorted from reality. So Lindsay

Clancy's fans have raised over 700,000

for her after she killed her ch three

children while on a cocktail of

prescribed psychiatric drugs. She's

about to be jailed for for life for

something her husband did. He killed the

kids. His was the voice that she heard.

He threw her out the window. She woke up

and and did what she was told. Since

this trial has started, I have not been

okay. Women didn't hear voice in that

diary. We heard her own. She loved those

babies with her heart. She carried the

entire mental load. So if a woman kills

her children and millions of women

across the internet raise support her,

raise hundreds of thousands of dollars.

You can say that these women are all

brained from conspiracy theories. I

think there's an element of that that is

actually true. But this is something

that a lot of people do not understand.

It seems so irrational.

I don't get it. And so this is something

that I've learned as a psychiatrist.

Shocking thing, one of the most

important things I've ever learned as a

psychiatrist is that people for the most

part, 99% of people, 99% of the time, I

don't know if that's statistically

correct, ballpark, let's say 95% of

people, 95% of the time are not behaving

irrationally. Irrespective of whether

you think there's rationality or not,

one thing we can all agree on is there's

an incredible emotional energy that is

coming out of us, evoked from us,

triggered by this trial if you're

following it. And that's what I want to

get into today because if you want to

understand what's going on with the

Lindsey Clancy trial, not just in terms

of the courtroom, but what's going on in

society, you have to understand that.

Why is everyone getting so caught up?

Okay, so step number one, there's two

legal proceedings. Number one is the

state of Massachusetts against Lindseay

Clancy for murder. Second thing is

there's a civil lawsuit from Lindseay

Clancy and her ex-husband. So they are

suing the psychiatric provider. So this

is the civil complaint. This is a

wrongful death brought by Patrick

Clansancy individually as personal

representative of the estates of his

deceased children. Patrick's wife,

Lindseay Clancy, is alleged to have

murdered Kora, Dawson, and Kalin. Prior

to the alleged murder, Lindsay sought

medical treatment for anxiety and

increasingly deteriorating mental health

condition. Lindsay began her career as a

nurse working at the Massachusetts

General Hospital, my alma mater. Patrick

and Lindsay jumped into parenthood and

worked together to provide the best

possible environment for to raise their

children. This is the plaintiff, right?

This is their case. This is not the

truth. This is a civil lawsuit in which

these people are alleging these are

their claims, right? So when someone

sues you for doing something bad, they

are going to emit omit lots of stuff

that let you off the hook. It's not

going to be fair, right? Which is

another really important thing you need

to understand about this trial. No one

is trying to be fair. No one is trying

to be correct. The prosecution has a

job. The defense has a job. The civil

case has a plaintiff that has a job.

It's your fault. And the defense in that

case is going to say, "It's not my

fault. It's your fault. Okay, so

everyone has an angle. No one is talking

about the truth. In order to spend more

time at home with her children, Lindsay

began working part-time night shifts in

the MGH labor and delivery unit. So,

this is an important point. Then she has

Kalin, who I think is her third child.

Patrick returned to work approximately

12 weeks after Kalin was born. And while

he was able to work from home, for the

first time, Lindsay was challenged with

taking care of three children

single-handedly during the weekdays.

We're going to play a fun game, chat,

and this game is going to be read Dr.

K's mind. Why did Dr. K

highlight this passage? What do you

think is the importance of this? Taking

care of kids during the day while also

working the night shift. Was husband

unable to help, not sleeping? If he's

working from home, how is it

single-handed? It's not the beginning of

the decline. Okay, so this is really

important. In bipolar disorder, the best

medicine is sleep. The moment that your

circadian rhythm gets messed up, you

increase your risk of problems with

bipolar disorder. One of the key

symptoms of bipolar disorder is

inability to sleep. So, this I think is

an important data point. Dr. Tuffs

treated Lindsay on from or about

September 15th to 2023. prescribed a

variety of different medications but

failed to monitor her reactions to these

medications or to attend her worsening

psychiatric conditions. Remember, this

is the civil suit. I personally don't

think that this is the case based on

what I've seen. And I think most

psychiatrists and most mental health

professionals don't really consider this

to be a failure of treatment. FYI, a lot

of people will criticize

decisions that get made, especially by

the mental health professionals. So, I

want to talk about this for a second.

The defense attorney finds this in Dr.

Tufts's notes and says the patient was

paranoid for getting suicidal ideiation.

She was worried that she would become

suicidal and basically says like why

didn't you do more? This trial is a

great example of a lot of stuff sounds

bad. It sounds really bad, but I want

y'all to play the tape through to the

end. If you are someone who is not

suicidal, should your doctor hospitalize

you because you are worried about

getting suicidal? What is the

appropriate course of action when

something could happen? If you get

hospitalized for the possibility

of suicidality

then

when does that end? So this is what's

really challenging about the being a

psychiatrist. Um there's a great great

paper from I think Matt Noach that

basically shows that about 50 to 60% of

suicide attempts happen within five

minutes of making the decision that

generally speaking suicidality is a

highly impulsive act. This whole like

media idea of like oh putting all your

affairs in order and all this kind of

stuff is like not usually what happens.

It's highly impulsive and highly acute.

So th this trial has a lot of like

armchair quarterbacking. Hindsight is

2020 except it's not 2020. What it has

is a lot of oversimplification of

complicated things. So I think cuz a lot

of this stuff is on like short form

content, right? And this is why like I

don't like short form content. Now how

did we get here? So after her third kid

was born, she started losing her mind.

Postpartum anxiety, depression,

paranoia, insomnia, and evolving

psychosis. And in 2022, she started

telling mom and husband that she was

having thoughts of killing her kids and

started seeking big-time medical help.

Now, at this point, she's on at least 12

different medications.

>> So, this is the kind of stuff that I

think is really scary because I think a

lot of people will comment and they'll

summarize, but she's not on 12 different

medications. This is what her medication

regimen looked like. And we'll get more

into this. This is where she's not on 12

medications. She was prescribed 12

medications, which is like really really

different from being on 12 med

medications. Okay. So, so this is where

like a lot of people will like simplify,

but this is like important stuff. Being

prescribed 12 medications is not the

same as being on 12 medica medications.

The problem is that if you want to put

together a timeline like this, you have

to like sit down and look at look

through her prescribing history. So,

this too, like these kinds of things of

instead of working to identify the

source of Lindsay's condition, I don't

accept that she didn't that Dr. Tus

didn't do that. Like I I think that's

actually what was going on. There's one

psychiatrist, Dr. Tufts. Then there's uh

Julie Paul who's a a nur nurse

practitioner at a different program who

is now independently as far as I can

tell I don't know if they're part of the

same healthcare system or what

prescribing

medications. Right. So so by mid

November her insomnia became so bad that

she was sleeping approximately 3 hours a

night. Went to the emergency room um

prescribed trazadone. Right? So now an

emergency room physician is prescribing

something in an attempt to assist her

daughter-in-law, Patrick's mother, a

nurse at Southshore Health. So now what

we've got is we've got the mother-in-law

calling someone that she knows from work

and is like, "Hey, can you help my

daughter-in-law?" Right? So this person

is like, "Of course." So now we've got a

second p a third person prescribing

medications. And then this also is to me

this to me is wild personally like I

don't know exactly what the situation

was but to prescribe ambient clonopin

and ramaron all at once I think is like

doesn't sound great. So if you get a

good night's sleep which one of these

bad boys is responsible. Now it's very

possible that because this is the other

kind of detailed thing. We don't

actually have the prescribing pattern in

lawsuits like this right? So one of

these may have been a standing

medication. Remaron every night.

Clonopin

as needed once in the evening and

ambient for like breakthrough. Even to

me that sounds excessive to prescribe

three things all at once. But I think

what this shows is that she was in

immense distress which she kind of talks

about quite a bit. Reported nurse Paul.

She was still struggling to continue

with sleep. Feels disoriented,

forgetful, not connected to my body.

This by the way

is one of the features of psychosis. If

you guys want to know what psychosis

looks like, this is what psychosis can

look like. And do we screen for all of

these things? Absolutely not. Like body

disintegration, sematic

depersonalization, bodily estrangement.

Boom. Right? So, here's what's really

interesting. If you go through Lindsay

Clancy's complaints, you will see a lot

of this stuff. This is like very hard to

use clinically

because insurance will not pay for this.

And for a psychiatrist to go through

these takes about an hour. The only

place that I've ever really been able to

use the the ease is on inatients who are

there 24 hours a day who are

hospitalized for psychosis. Right. So

then

nurse Gelata enters the picture. So like

now we have another provider involved is

reporting the so she's getting

physically dependent on benzo in order

to sleep. mind is constantly running, is

feeling overwhelmed, feeling afraid that

something awful might happen. Then she

reports that she has experienced

intrusive thoughts of wanting to die and

contacted Aspire crisis support over the

weekend. So now there is another group

of people involved. So then the symptoms

persisted presented by Lindsay caused

nurse Jala to ask if she was having

thoughts of harming herself or children.

So now this is gets really interesting.

denied having such thoughts but has this

vague sense that something bad might

happen. So now we have a psychiatric

provider who's actually asking her,

right? So this is good. Like the the

nurse practitioner is like, "Hey, are

you going to hurt somebody, including

yourself or anybody else?" And she's

like, "No." So now the question is now

what happens? So do you hospitalize

someone against their will? So Patrick

called nurse Gelata's office, asked for

a call back, and made it clear that

Gelata's office that it was fairly

urgent. When Patrick and Lindsay spoke

to nurse Gelata, they advised her that

Lindsay was still experiencing panic and

suicidal ideiation. Nurse Gelato advised

Lindsay to continue taking the

medication. Right. And this is also

where like all the conspiracy theorists

who are saying like, oh, Patrick was

like a bad dude who is not supportive

and it's like, hey, he's calling the

nurse practitioner and he's like worried

about his wife and he's like, hey, this

is not working. On January 16th, no

suicidal ideiation. And then on 24th,

she began did so because she started

hearing a compelling and unrecognizable

singular male voice that told her, "This

is your last chance." and that she had

had to take them with her. She also

reported the voice indicated to her that

she should die, that this is her last

chance, and that her children would

suffer if she was gone. Lindsay then cut

her wrists and neck and jumped out of a

second floor window in her home. She

fell approximately 20 ft to the ground

below and suffered traumatic spinal cord

injuries injuries. She is now paralyzed

below the sternum. So, let's talk about

what's happening. What is the prognosis

for postpartum psychosis? So this

happens in about 1 to three women per

thousand live births which first of all

is like really high. About 10,000 babies

are born each day in the US. Let's say

two per thousand live births which means

postpartum psychosis is happening to 20

people every single day in the US. This

is not a rare condition and postpartum

psychosis is extreme. So the the thing

to understand is this stuff is a bell

curve. So, you know, the number of

people who get postpartum psychosis is

like 2%. But what percentage of people

get close to postpartum psychosis or 50%

of the way there or get severe

depression? That number is

astronomically higher. And this is

something that I think we don't really

understand as a society. Is that this is

like

way more common than people realize. and

that for every one person it happens to,

there's probably a dozen or a hundred or

200 or 300 people that get halfway

there. So, I I think this is going to be

like, you know, we talk about the messed

up American health care system. And I

think this is a good example of kind of

everyone's to blame, so no one's

responsible. So, why does Dr. Tufts have

a 17-minute visit? Because that's what

insurance will pay for. Why do people

not review medical records? Why do they

not see medical records? So Lindsay

Clancy calls the suicide hotline twice.

Why does Dr. Tufts not know that?

Because the suicide hotline and Dr.

Tufts don't know how to talk to each

other. You've got at least five, not

including the inpatient providers.

That's six or maybe seven.

You have seven people trying to take

care of this person and very little

communication in between them. And then

you may say, "But Dr. K, like they

should communicate." I totally agree.

And my question is when in what hours of

the day, right? So, how many fewer

patients should I see per day because

I'm on the phone trying to get medical

records from seven different people over

the course of a month. And this is how

bad the American healthare system is. I

think this is a good example of the

natural history of this illness is not

good. What a lot of people don't realize

is that mental illness can be terminal.

We don't think about it like it's

terminal, but the mortality impact of

something like schizophrenia is really

high. Reduces life expectancy by like 20

years or something. I don't know what

the exact statistics are. Like that's

insane, dude. Bipolar disorder, I'm

sure, has a mortality. It's not my area

of expertise. I don't have the the stats

right on my fingertips. And I think this

is a case of

I mean, I don't know if her husband's a

bad dude. I've never met the guy. You

can do an astrological analysis as some

people have done to demonstrate how bad

he is. Fine. I I'm not I'm not privy to

that. I can't comment on that. I don't

know what his his star chart says. But

like mental illness is bad, y'all. And

pregnancy in the postpartum period is

bad. And what I think is really scary

about this is like, sure, Lindsey

Clancy's on trial and we're all paying

attention to it. But my point is that

like literally this happens to 20 people

every day in the US. So, in the last

year, Lindseay Clancy is not the only

person that this has this happened to

6,000 women. 7,200 women in the last

year in the United States. Did we

realize that? Maybe it's 3,000 women,

maybe it's 4,000 women, maybe it's

10,000 women. People thinking like this

is like a super rare occurrence. This is

the case where things got really bad,

right? And and then when people are

like,

"What is wrong with these people?" They

say her fans

have raised over $700,000.

But like I I want you guys to understand

that like this is I don't think this is

women being crazy. I think this is women

understanding that this system has

really let her down. Even if you have

the perfect system, you're still going

to have bad outcomes. Or if you have a

great system. I I think there's 6,000

women statistically somewhere in the

ballpark who experienced what Lindsey

Clancy went through. They didn't kill

their kids, thank God, or at least not

that we know of or not that was public

publicized or sensationalized.

Okay, that's why people are rallying

behind this. Also, this really

demonstrates like a lack of

understanding of what psychosis is. This

is this is really to me an ignorance of

what mental illness can be cuz now

what's happened, this is so sad. But as

mental illness has become so popular,

right, and there's a bunch of Tik Tok

diagnosis and everyone's depressed and

everyone's got trauma, we have this

vague idea of mental illness as a

bucket. And it's like, bro, you can be

as depressed. I struggle with

depression. I have trauma. I have ADHD.

I'm not going around killing people.

Psychosis is when your experience of

reality is so distorted, right? That

like psychosis is also, hey, my kidneys

are rotting inside me. Can you please

surgically remove them? Like that's a

documented delusion called the Kotard

delusion. People believe this. People

will go to a hospital. I've seen these

patients. And they will ask you, "Oh,

you're a doctor. Can you please remove

my kidney?" And then I'm like, "What are

you talking about?" And then they turn

around and they said, "I tried to do it

myself, but I couldn't get the the angle

right." And that's when you see there's

blood dripping down their side. And it's

like, do you think this person is

responsible for their actions? Are they

in their right mind? That is psychosis.

And and this is what's also scary about

it is like the distortion of right mind

that most human beings are familiar with

like depression or anxiety. We say that

too is not right mind. And I'm with you.

But the really scary thing about

psychosis, it's it's like distortion on

a whole different level. So I'll tell

you guys a pleasant version. And by the

way, you guys do not need to be scared,

okay, of people with schizophrenia or

even who are psychotic. Very few of them

are violent. So, I'll give you guys a

great example, my favorite example of a

patient that taught me about psychosis.

I was working as an intern and I had I

was working with a patient who had a

delusional disorder and she had all

kinds of delusions. And one day she

comes up to me and she says,

"You know I'm your mom, right?" I'm

like, "What?" She's like, "Yeah, there's

a conspiracy.

They don't they're not going to let you

know, but like you're my my son." And I

was like, [laughter]

"No." And and she's like, "No, really,

you are." Like, I know it's hard to

accept, but you weren't there when like

you don't remember your birth. I

remember your birth. Like, I'm your

mother. I'm like, "No, you're not, lady.

You're like 10 years older than I am."

And she's like, "Nope, I'm your mom."

She's like, "If you don't believe me,

get a DNA test." So, I was like, "Okay,

I'll see you tomorrow." Next morning, I

see her in the hall. She's like, "Hey,

did you get that DNA test?" I was like,

"No." She's like, "Well, you should

probably get that DNA test. I'm proud of

you, son." And then the next day she's

like, "Did you get the DNA test yet?"

And it's like, I don't even know. Like,

what do you do? Like, I'm not going to

get a DNA test, right? Cuz a DNA test

would mean I I need to collect a blood

sample for her from her, and I have to

go, I guess, draw blood somewhere and

get a and like I'm not going to go to my

attending and be like, "Hey, like so I I

can't prove her wrong." And every single

time she gives these like knowing smile,

she's like, "Yeah, I know. Oh, you

didn't get it? Okay,

probably safer that way." And and this

is this is the thing is like I I've

worked with a lot of patients with

schizophrenia and psychosis. Many of

them are like really pleasant, wonderful

human beings.

And it really is the illness. Like

sometimes they have like bad days and

and things get hard, but I think Lindsay

Clancy is like a good example of in some

ways a good patient. They're really

trying, right? And I think that's why

her that there's a a tendency to sue her

providers because she tried really hard,

which is what her civil complaint seems

to paint. She was absolutely engaged in

treatment. I think the sad truth is that

even if there isn't a me successful, I

mean messed up mental health care

system, we still are not we don't bat at

100. Like part of the problem of

psychiatry is that we we can't MRI you.

We can't do a blood test. We can't know

definitively what's wrong. What's really

scary about this is we can ask, right?

The most we can do is ask, hey, are you

suicidal? And then someone says no, but

that could change tomorrow. And how do

you sit with like what do you do? Do you

just hospitalize people until they're

what what's the outcome that causes you

to discharge them? Because they may

still be afraid of becoming suicidal in

the future. So I I think what I see in

in women who this is affecting deeply

is that there's a strong sense of

empathy.

What people are seeing, what women are

seeing with Lindsey Clancy is there

would I be but for the grace of God.

What they see is in the back of their

mind there was one path, rare path but

you can see the possibility of

everything just really going downhill

and they see a woman for whom everything

went downhill. They see a woman who did

try to get psychiatric help, right? and

they they they feel those feelings, they

grapple with those feelings, and they

oftenimes felt those feelings in

complete isolation because there's so

much shame for having those feelings.

And it's such a immense

lonely struggle. And so I think a lot of

people rally around that, right? And I

think if we really want to understand

what's going on, we need to understand

if you're a dude on the planet today and

you're confused about why all these

women are are rallying behind Lindsey

Clansancy, what you really need to do is

talk to a dozen women about what their

experience of having children was like.