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>> The Joe Rogan Experience.

>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY

NIGHT. All day.

>> Good to see you, sir. Thanks for having

me back.

>> My pleasure. Always.

>> Yeah.

>> So much crazy going on in the world

and and even before we scheduled this

like uh more crazy stuff has happened.

The war broke out, all kinds of things.

>> Yeah. How are you uh how are you feeling

about the President Trump?

>> That's a open-ended question. Um

>> do you text with him and talk to him?

>> Occasionally. Yeah, occasionally he'll

send me a text. I I get these like truth

social posts of uh you know, things that

he's saying, but this whole

Iran thing, man. Like, did you

see this coming?

>> No, definitely. I don't know. I mean,

who did? Uh I mean, when did he even

decide? you know, their national

security strategy they put out in

November basically just said we've

degraded their capacity. It's a win.

There was no sense in which there would

be additional action.

I think it ushers in a new paradigm

completely like the older post-war era

is just over. Mark Carney, the prime

minister of Canada, articulated that the

World Economic Forum probably better

than the Trump administration did,

saying very clearly that older

rules-based order is gone. You saw AOC

try to sort of articulate it, but she

sort of fell apart at the Munich

Security Conference in in February. So,

this is an administration that is I

mean, and I don't even think they're

thinking I wrote a piece and I decided

not to publish it because I was sort of

like decapitation doesn't really work

for regime change, but it's not clear

that they're really out for regime

change or they're just asserting power,

shaking up things. I mean, some of it's

art of the deal, changing the person

that we're negotiating with, that's

Venezuela and Iran. Is it really going

to change those regimes? I don't I don't

think most people don't think so. But

that I'm not sure that that's what

they're going for. They're just going

for an assertion of American power in

service of American interests. And then

what happens in Iran, what happens in

Venezuela, I don't think they care that

much about. At least they're not

behaving as though they do.

>> Well, the none neither thing made any

sense to me. the Venezuela thing. I

mean, look, they wanted him out forever,

and he definitely stole the election to

get in there in the first place, and he

was a dictator, but at least that one

was at least clean. They go in, kidnap

him, get him out. This one's nuts. Like,

and what's happening in Tel Aviv, it's

it's hard to know what's real and what's

not because there's a lot of uh fake

video going around and a lot of weird

posts on X. So, it's, you know, when I

do peek in, it's hard to know. And you

have to listen to Grock and then Grock's

dismantling a lot of the uh fake videos.

>> Mhm. What What are the fake videos that

you're thinking?

>> This is like fake videos of, you know,

like an insane amount of bombs dropping

down on the city, but it seems like

there's a massive amount of destruction

in Tel Aviv.

>> Yeah. I haven't checked in lately, but

I'm assuming. Was that just today or

>> yesterday? Yeah.

>> Yeah.

Um, I mean, I think the president is,

there's been some dis, you know, Rubio

said something about how, oh, we had to

act because we knew that Israel was

going to act anyway, and I think people

interpreted, and then Netanyahu was in

the White House a lot. This, I think

this president has shown, whether you

like him or not, you know, and there's

certainly things that I'm unhappy about

and have criticized, but I think Trump

is in charge like he's making these

decisions. There's nobody behind him.

There's nobody nobody pulling for all of

that you know the Russians or whoever

some you know these now the Israelis you

know it's just he's clearly I mean Elon

gave him you know $250 million and he

still you he didn't give him even the

electric car credit you know like like

Trump is in charge you know like I think

that's one of the big lessons from this

and I don't think that I think that

means that there's not a lot of like

second order thinking here like oh

what's the move after that he doesn't

know he's just acting that's what's so

wild about it is that this older foreign

policy establishment which you know was

like let the experts decide what the

right foreign polic you know all these

think tanks and that's just gone now

it's just irrelevant in this presidency

and I don't think it'll come back like

if you get a Gavin Newsome president AOC

I don't

>> president who

>> I don't think yeah for a minute before

before Munich but I don't think it's

going to come back and I think that

that's what the prime minister of Canada

realized I think that's what the

Europeans are starting to realize is

that this is a completely different

world that we live in than the one we

lived in just a couple of years ago,

>> which just doesn't make any sense to me

unless we're acting on someone else's

interest, like particularly Israel's

interests. It does just didn't make any

sense to me. Like if they had supposedly

dismantled their chances of making a

nuclear bomb, whether or not that's true

or I mean, it's so hard to know. He was

unsatisfied and just like he was like,

I'm not getting anywhere in these

negotiations

and I'm going to replace the person I'm

negotiating with. It's it's just, you

know, sh turn over the table, like

change things up. you're not getting

anywhere. And you could crit, you could

say he was too impatient. He their view

was the Democrats were too patient with

Iran. They kept trying with Iran. Iran,

they weren't giving them what they

wanted. I'm not defending it. I'm just

saying I think that's what explains it.

They they haven't done a very good job

explaining it because I think that it

just sounds to some extent like what it

is, which is that it's they're acting

without they're sort of like, well, does

it result in regime change in Iran? We

don't know. They might say that we want

that or whatever, but that's not

ultimately they're not they're not

acting on the basis of achieving regime

change.

>> Well, it just seems so insane based on

what he ran on. I mean, this is why a

lot of people feel betrayed, right? He

ran on no more wars and these stupid

senseless wars and then we have one that

we can't even really clearly define why

we did it.

>> Well, but he said he's against endless

wars.

>> Well, endless wars. Listen, man. They're

all endless. Do you ever hear Rumsfeld

talk about Iraq when it first happened?

>> Tell me.

>> They they were talking about like six

weeks. Six weeks.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> Six weeks.

>> Yeah. But they put that was ground force

and I know that they've not ruled that

out. For me, that would be

>> They have They have not. My

understanding is that they have not.

Yeah.

>> I thought you said and now have no

>> um

>> but they don't seem eager to go into I

mean my I I criticized the Venezuela

action because I sort of was like, how

are you possibly going to run Venezuela?

And then I think a little bit more time

passed I was like, "Oh, they're not

they're not going to try to run

Venezuela." Like that's not what this

is. Um they wanted

>> they just wanted to take over the oil.

>> Yeah. And and even there I mean the oil

it's not significant at any global

level. I don't it's hard I don't even

think it's really about the oil. I don't

think it's about the oil. I don't think

it's about the oil in Iran either.

>> Well the oil reserves are significant.

It's just the the type of oil and how to

extract it is extremely difficult.

>> It's the worst Joe. It's in the am like

the big the big abundant reserves are in

the Amazon. So you're talking about what

a nightmare. It's super far away. It's

terrible. You had a gorilla conflict. If

you had a gorilla conflict break out

around those oil facilities, I mean it's

already more expensive because you have

to heat up that particular type of it's,

you know, it's really heavy oils. Have

to heat it up to get it out of the

ground. Then you have to heat it to

transport. It's a total nightmare. I

just I mean and as a conservationist I

would say that would be the last place

I'd want to see us getting oil from.

There's a lot of other places that have

have oil. we shouldn't be going into the

Amazon.

>> So, what if anything makes sense to you

about this attack in Iran?

>> I don't know that I'm I'm not I'm not

sure what I think of it. I mean, I don't

I don't like it. I don't like I mean,

the whole older system was that you had

this international

US security council would have to agree.

The Congress would have to agree. That's

all gone now. I mean, it's just a

totally different. This guy is just

acting, you know, he says he's not

getting where they want to get in the

negotiations with the Iranians. So, he

says, "We have some leverage over you

and we're going to use it."

>> Similar.

>> But clearly, Israel wanted this.

>> Israel has its own motivations, I think.

Yeah.

>> But I don't think I think it's not quite

accurate to say that. I just don't think

I think all the evidence shows that

Trump is his own man and he is the

president and like literally he couldn't

even give back he couldn't even give

Elon the battery subsidy that he wanted.

You know what I mean? It's like I get

that

>> I've never seen a pol I mean I've never

seen a politician act that

independently. That's I mean a a

president act that independently. So I'm

skeptical of

>> I mean I think that I think that Rubio

was sort of like well they were going to

attack and so we had to you know there's

some of that but I just think Trump is

doing what he wants to do and we should

>> You really think it's that simple?

Trump's doing what he wants to do and

that's it.

>> You don't think people are influencing

him cuz there's a lot of war hawks

around him right? There's a lot of

people that want for a long time.

>> I mean, Netanyahu is in there, but then

Tucker was in there a bunch,

>> but do you think it Tucker has the kind

of influence that Netanyahu has?

>> Well, I mean, I guess if you just base

it on the outcome, then the answer is

no.

>> No.

>> Um, but that's what I'm saying. I just

think I think he listened to everybody,

but I just don't think it's Russians

aren't behind him. Israelis, I mean,

Trump is, look what he's been through. I

mean, he's, you know, he's got where he

is. There's no way he's going to They

don't have anything on him. That's my

view. I don't think they have anything

on them. How do they behave that way?

>> Well, they could, but I'm not We don't

see any evidence for it.

>> Well, you wouldn't see any evidence

until it broke out until they released

it.

>> Yeah. And and well, we'll get I'm sure

we'll get into Epstein, but I mean, I

just think when you don't have evidence

of something,

then you can't assume that it's

happening. Um I haven't seen any ev I've

seen evidence that Trump is fully

independent with particularly this case

of Elon. Surprised me. I would have

thought at a minimum you'd give your

largest campaign contributor the one

thing he wants. Um I mean Doge was

something he wanted too, but and then I

look at Iran and I kind of go, you know,

Trump has always won. I mean, Trump has

been critic He said he doesn't want Iran

to have a nuclear weapon for a really

long time. I I don't know the exact

date, but certainly

>> Well, no one wants Iran to have a

nuclear weapon other than Iran, right?

>> Yeah. Um I think that the he was he also

put it this way. He was also critical of

the Democrats approach which was the

sort of the mainstream IAEA approved

approach because of of course under

international law Iran has the right to

a nuclear to nuclear energy and to

nuclear facilities including nuclear re

uh nuclear u the centrifuges and the

enrichment. Iran has a right to all that

under international law and so and Trump

doesn't agree with that and he's not

going to let international law get in

his way.

>> So when you say he has a right to it

you're talking just about nuclear power.

>> Yeah. Right.

>> Right. But that includes enrichment. So,

you know,

>> to a certain point, right? But they've

already surpassed that point. Right.

>> Yeah. And I I believe I you know, if I'm

wrong, I'll correct it on X, but uh I

don't think it specifies the level of

enrichment is part of the issue. And

then you've got these centrifuges and so

it's all been a cat-and- mouse game. I

personally do not doubt for a minute

that Iran wants nuclear weapons and

that's what's been going on. I think

most people think that, but the Obama

administration was like, we can do, you

know, we can lift sanctions in exchange

for controlling their nuclear program.

Trump has not for a very long time

agreed with that approach. I think he

was criticizing it for many years before

2016 before he decided to run, but um

definitely for the last 10 years.

>> Did you um read the thing today that

came out that they're they're discussing

some sort of a leaked transmission that

seems to be an activation of terror

cells.

>> Iranians have.

>> Yeah.

>> I'm not No, but I'm not surprised,

right?

>> Sounds bad. Yeah,

>> that's one of the things that obviously

that was the first thing I thought of

was like, "Oh, great. Are we going to

get a bunch of

Iranian suicide bombers in the United

States now?" It's obviously

>> I don't know if it's going to be suicide

bombers, but I would imagine it would be

something a little bit more destructive

than that.

>> Could be. Um I don't know what they can

get in. I mean, there's Sean Ryan's been

having folks on that say that

>> yeah,

>> people are getting in with with heavy

artillery. I just don't know the status

of it. Um

>> well the real problem is

>> they can do for four years the border

was wide open.

>> Oh yeah

>> and definitely some people from the

Middle East got through

>> and we have no idea like what is wait I

mean I mean I'm sure there are some

intelligence agencies that have an

understanding of what the threat is.

I hope so. I mean, I think we see that

these terrorists are able to do an

incredible amount of damage with pretty

simple rifles, you know, and sometimes

uh was it the French uh the the club um

that particular terrorist action, there

were other people that were using bombs

that like only killed one or two people,

but the guys with the machine guns were

able to gun down like dozens of people.

So certainly it's ter that's scary. I

think none of us want I think that's

where a lot of Americans when it

happened the reason so many people were

against it believe a majority is against

it is because you're like great what we

you know first of all is it going to be

another endless war and second of all

are we going to get a bunch of terrorist

um actions here I think if we did I

don't think support for the war goes up

I think it goes down

>> oh for sure yeah I mean it's just such a

I mean the whole

the whole situation internationally has

been so tense already with what's going

on in Gaza, with what's going on in

Ukraine. It's like and to add this to

the pile, it's like I mean it genuinely

feels like there's a real possibility

that we might be entering World War II.

>> How would that what would that look

like?

>> I don't know. I Well, I never expected

Iran to start attacking, you know, they

they launched bombs into UAE, Dubai. I

mean, where else? There's

>> I think they expected that though,

right? I mean, it makes Iran look

>> Iran looks pretty isolated. I mean, I

will say, you know, I was totally

obviously maybe not obviously, but very

much on the left and was opposed to all

the stuff Reagan was doing. I remember

even even in the 80s,

>> but it's like he really did I I'm not

going to say he was the major the only

reason. There was obviously a bunch of

weakening within, but I mean, he really

did push back against communism. He

challenged the entire foreign policy

establishment on the basic view of just

um you know of just of just kind of

keeping it you know keeping keeping the

communists where they were and instead

Reagan really pushed back against it and

said it got to be regime change. It sort

of almost had a moral certainly there's

a defense buildup but a moral argument

and I think it had a big impact um and

to bring down communism. So I'm you know

the Iranian it's it's I'm I'm obviously

have very mixed feelings about it. the

Iranian regime is just so evil and so

awful that you know you're you're you're

every time you see videos of people

taking these courageous actions you're

like somebody bring that regime down. On

the other hand that country is pretty

the f the people of that country were

pretty radical and the sha in 1979 I

just spent last night watching all the

old old 60 minutes from the 70s. They're

amazing. But the the sha was really

modernizing the country. There was a lot

of wealth coming in. There was a lot of

more inequality. There was also a lot

more state repression uh from his

intelligence services. Uh but the

country was you know full of radical

Muslims who wanted you know that when

all that instability they wanted to

revert back to you know a radical

Islamist regime and that's still now

I've seen other estimates to say that

you know the current regime is

incredibly unpopular in Iran. But, you

know, how that works out, it's really

hard to say. But there is something I I

caution my own I I talk back to my own

anti-interventionist instincts when I

think about Reagan just being like, you

know, we're not going to do just

containment strategy anymore. We're

actually going to talk back to communism

because people deserve to be free. And

uh now is everything better for, you

know, is everything fine in Russia?

Maybe not. But I mean, communism was

just awful. you know, just a totally

soulkilling,

you know, crushing, you know, a giant

lie. I mean, it's awful totalitarianism.

So, I think we have to kind of keep that

in mind. And especially when you're in a

moment of just such incredible chaos

like we're in now. I told my students,

I'm like, you get to live through one of

the most interesting moments in history,

certainly in the last 80 years, because

the entire paradigm where the United

States had these allies and everything's

going to go through the security council

and we're going to try to make it

through the UN and there's got to get

agreements and all this stuff, that's

just gone. I mean, it's just it's gone

to the part where they don't even where

you're kind of like, how are you what's

going to happen inside Iran? They're

like, that's not our concern. We hope

that there's an overthrow of the

government, but they're they're not

we're not like going to necessarily

commit to that. Well, they're also

calling on the people to rise up, which

is,

you know, I mean, look, look at what

they did with the protesters. I mean,

they killed thousands of people. And

look at Iran and Venezuela. They don't

have internal the opposition is not

united. There's not a united opposition

with a united figure. I mean, remember,

it was so interesting watching 79 when

these protests against the sha were

going on there. The the left and the

Islamicists made an alliance in Iran.

Something I'm very it's something really

interesting topic. I only starting to

explore right now. But they made an

allian so they'd be holding up, you

know, they'd be holding up the

Ayatollani pictures in the street. Like

they had their guy and the left was

like, "Look, we're just going to, you

know, go with this guy." I think he was

making promises to the left around

allowing, you know, more, you know,

liberalism. And then they came in and

just consolidated into this really

hardline Islamicist regime. But they had

a guy. We don't they don't, you know, we

don't have a guy in in Venezuela. We

don't have a guy in Iran. I don't know

if there's anybody in Cuba really. you

know, the in the older regime under like

the Biden, the open society people, the

open society establishment, they had

somebody for Venezuela, this Mashado

woman, but Trump gets up there and he

just goes, "Yeah, she doesn't have

enough support, so she's not with us.

Gone." You know, like they recognize

that they don't have there's nobody with

a opposition, you know, street cred that

can come into power. So, I think they

and they know that. They're not like

unaware of that. So, I think some of the

like, oh, they should rise up and

whatever. It's a little half-hearted. I

don't know that they believe that that's

going to happen. They're certainly not

they don't seem to be offering them, you

know, material support,

>> right? So, it's just a symbolic gesture

to talk about it.

>> Sounds like it. And I mean I And this

kind of the this beautiful collapse of

communism which occurred so peacefully

with the Berlin wall. The guard

eventually just sort of like it's just

in the vibes and the guards are just

like, "Yeah, we're not guarding this

wall anymore." And it's just over, you

know, and it was just over and it was

like it was like kind of like a moral

collapse. Not so sure that they're going

to get that in Iran. Doesn't seem like

it.

>> It seems like they've been preparing for

this for a long time.

>> The Iranians.

>> Yeah,

>> they're dug in now. It's the son and

he's just part of the he represents the

uh the I was the IGRC, the um the the

security forces. I mean, it's their guy.

It's what you would do. It's rally

around the flag. It's classic what

happens. And so, but you know, never you

never know. I mean, these guys then

might just negotiate more what the Trump

administration wants. I think the Trump

administration is like, "We'll just keep

killing your leaders until we get

somebody in there that will make a deal

with us." I think that's I think that's

how Trump thinks about it.

>> Really?

>> That's my That's my best guess.

>> You're smiling. Do you think this

>> It's funny because it's funny because

it's it's so Joe, it's just like you

just look at all the think tanks and all

the white papers and the State

Department and the planning and whatever

and it's just like Trump's just he's

going to listen to Tucker. He's going to

listen to Yahoo and he's going to decide

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Is that good?

>> I don't know if it's good. I mean, um I

just we don't know yet. I mean, I think

part of it is is it going to work? Part

of you go, is it moral? And you're like,

well, but does it does it work to make

have better outcomes? I don't know.

We're in a realm of absolute chaos right

now.

>> We're also in a realm where AI is going

to be powering autonomous weapons if not

already.

>> I mean, that I mean, that is going on.

That is so interesting. this thing with

Anthropic and the DoD and what's

happening there. That is really

interesting.

>> So, initially anthropic was hesitant to

allow them to use autonomous weapons,

right?

>> I don't know the status of it, but you

saw the open AI the head of open AI

autonomous uh it was a she was the head

of autonomous weapons I think. I'm not

don't don't get me exactly right, but

she just quit like a couple of days ago.

It was on X and it was just like a huge

story. So, you have a bunch of you have

you have you have a a rift in between. I

mean now I'm now I think um you know Sam

and Elon are both on board and want to

keep working with the DoD, but it looks

like Anthropic broke and you know and

then and then Hexath was like well but

then we're going to punish you for this.

Uh that's very consistent with a kind of

nationalist vision which is that which

the Trump administration has which is

that your security strategy your

economic strategy your border strategy

it's all a sing your industrial strategy

it's all a single thing your trade

strategy it's all a single thing and I

think for Trump it's just you're either

asserting power and dem and using your

leverage and demanding more or you're

engaged in managed decline you're just

giving up you know and I part of me I'm

of mixed minds on it because on one hand

I'm with the kind of I kind of go let's

invest at home we have all the you know

we have skid road to clean up you know

uh we should be focused on that not on

trying to do regime change or bombing

other countries or creating other

problems on the other hand I think

there's something right about defending

the west I mean defending western

civilization you know uh defending our

our institutions our norms our liberal

values and and nobody's done that and we

just had a guy in power that was that

opened our borders

that kind of gave a blank check to

Ukraine. It seems like at a minimum with

Trump, you have somebody that is taking

responsibility in ways where Biden would

be like, well, we're going to do what,

you know, we're going to work with our

allies. And it was just all kind of like

it was like it was all kind of going to

be decided in this in this, you know,

what Curtis Yarvin famously calls the

cathedral, you know, just the the the

single thing of the media and the think

tanks and the academics and and Trump

was like, it's not working. and the

working class uh of this country elected

me to to show strength and to demand a

better return on our investment in terms

of protecting our allies for our people.

So that part of it I think is really

overdue and really necessary an

assertion of why the west is special,

why we need to defend the west. um is

bombing Iran and replacing the you know

the command with his son is Mashad you

know is what's happening in Venezuela is

that the right approach to that I don't

know but I think we were the system was

was failing I mean the open society

system which is supposed to be this

liberal you know uh you know system of

tolerance that became intolerant it

became totalitarian it created

censorship industrial complex they they

weaponized the intelligence communities

we you know started getting ourselves

into conflicts that we that was not

clear why we were in including

Venezuela, I mean, sorry, including um

Ukraine. I mean, with Ukraine, it's like

that war only continues because we

continue to to arm it. Like, if we

stopped, if we just were like, let's

just have the just, you know, just cut a

deal wherever the border is right now.

You're just like, that's where it's

going to stop, then you can I mean, I

don't know. I'm not sure what's

preventing that from Trump. I think he's

annoyed with Putin. But yeah, I mean, my

view is like I don't see an interest in

that war um continuing. I don't know how

it's in the interest of the working of

working-class Americans or Americans.

And I have the same questions about Iran

and Venezuela and Cuba, but I think that

is a totally different paradigm than the

one that we had from 1945 to 2024.

>> Well, the idea of tolerance for, you

know, with the last administration that

seems just to be a narrative. It it

seemed to be a political strategy of

keeping the borders open to increase

populations in blue states, raise the

census, get more congressional seats,

and then a path to citizenship where

you'd have permanent voters. That's what

it seems like. And then there's also a

ton of Medicaid fraud that's wrapped up

in that that we're now seeing.

>> Yeah, I think that's part of it. I mean,

there the Times did a piece on why Biden

left the borders open and it was

>> What was there? It was a funny piece

like there was this it was you know part

of it he's so out of it right like there

were just it was not clear like there

wasn't clear there was like a meeting

where he was like yeah we're going to

just do this thing they kind of

concluded that I think Cecilia Moz who's

one of the um more moderate advocates

and was in the administration I think

she said something like Biden just

wanted to give the left just felt like

he wanted to give the left what they

wanted and that's what you know the

Soros think tanks and the you know the

very progressive immigration groups have

been you know have been advocating. He

did the same thing on climate. So, it

makes sense. I know Elon talks a lot

about how, oh, it's about importing

voters and whatnot. Maybe um but it's

not even clear that that's a good that's

a strategy that's going to work. You

know, why not?

>> Well, because first of all, we don't

know that Latinos like why are like why

do we assume Latinos are all going to,

you know, vote for Democrats? Well, if

you've got them all on Medicaid and

Social Security,

the numbers there are it's it's actually

more complic Europe is definitely the

case that you have higher rates of crime

and higher rates of social services

among migrants. Here are Latino migrants

traditionally, you know, be, you know,

really thrive. You know, they do much

better than than the mostly Muslim

immigrants in Europe. Um, so I mean, I'm

skeptical. I mean, the other thing I the

other statistic that I learned uh from

David Shore, who's like the one of the

top Democrat pollsters, when he was

talking to Ezra Klein after the 2024

elections, he was like, if all eligible

voters had voted, Trump would have won

by three percentage points rather than

1.5. So, it's also So, I always think

it's kind of funny because the

Republicans are always like trying to

make it harder for people to vote, but

under that calculation anyway, and maybe

it's just Trump, maybe other Republicans

won't go.

>> When you say harder for people to vote,

what do you mean? You mean mail in

voting? Yeah, just the whole effort to

>> but the problem is mailin voting has

always been a vector for fraud.

>> That's it. Maybe I don't know how much

of it there is. Um I've seen different

things on it

>> goes back like decades people have been

talking about mail and voting just being

too open to fraud.

>> Well, but then the but maybe but then

the question is does it really benefit?

I mean, in the words, if David Shaw is

right, if everybody who could vote had

voted, Trump would have won like

basically by twice the margin.

>> Well, I don't know if that's necessarily

true, but when I see laws like what

California has where you're not allowed

to show ID, there's only I mean, I've

tried tried to find some sort of

charitable way where that would make

sense other than you want to open the

door for fraud. There's nothing

>> this this narrative that they say oh

poor people don't have like see Kla

Harris they don't believe that they

don't have a Xerox machine like

>> no but you ever see the thing I think it

was a guy I don't know if he did it for

free press a guy was going around

interviewing um well first he

interviewed liberals at like I think UC

Berkeley and he was like you know do you

think that you should have to have an ID

to vote and they were like no because

black people don't have IDs and like

>> that's just because they're hearing that

on

>> NP I know of course but they believe

that I mean but then I don't know if you

saw that it's an incredible video cuz

then he goes to like I think he goes to

Harlem or he goes to like a black

neighborhood in New York and he was just

ask asking black people he's like do you

have an ID on you and it was like

everybody was like yeah like what's the

matter with you?

>> Well it's also we just got done with

three years of you need an ID to prove

that you have been vaccinated

>> so you need to be able to have that to

go to work to get on a plane to eat at a

restaurant.

>> It didn't make any sense. It was so

immediately contradicting what had just

gone down you know months earlier. It's

just stupid. Well, yeah, that was about

that was because the left wanted to

control people's behavior.

>> Um, and on voting, they the old I I know

because I when I talk to my progressive

friends about it, what you know, and

family and friends, it's it's very much

like, no, we can't put barriers on the

way of voting because that's what they

did during Jim Crow. I mean, that's

where it goes back to

>> ID is not a barrier. It's just an

insurance that you're a citizen while

you're voting.

>> And they say there's really not much.

They say there's very little fraud. I'm

just telling you what they say. I'm not

saying I agree. Who is they though?

>> Progressives. Progressives. Yeah. Do you

believe that? That's horseshit. That's a

horseshit.

>> I think they believe it. I'll put it

that way. Yes, I do.

>> I think they just say it because that's

the thing that everybody says. I think

it's a group think thing. I mean, I

think if you sit down with any rational

person and no one's watching, you know,

there's no cameras on them and you ask

them, "Does that make any sense?" No one

would say it makes any sense. Most

people in this country who are citizens

have some form of ID or can get some

form of ID. And it's entirely reasonable

to ask people to prove that you are who

you are if you're voting for the

president of the United States. That

seems pretty reasonable.

>> I'm I I I find it totally reasonable and

I support it. I'm just saying that if

you make it I'm just saying you may the

Republicans may it may result in

outcomes that are not the predictable

ones that they think they'll get just

because Trump at least and Trump's maybe

you know a special case but I mean he

was able to turn out reluctant voters

like he motivated people to vote

>> because people were fed up with what had

gone on in the last four years and I

think that open border was the biggest

one

>> I mean it was one of the biggest ones

cuz people just felt hopeless like this

is crazy like what you're doing you're

letting in what's equivalent at least uh

if you're if you're just being

charitable it's 10 million people

>> it was it was huge

>> if you're just being conservative it's

10 times Austin you let 10 Austinans in

in four years of people who you have no

idea who they are

>> yeah and and Americans were on board

with closing the borders and then when

it came time to actually asking all the

getting those folks to leave that came

in all the support disappeared right I

mean

>> well it's not asking them to leave. It's

showing up at Home Depot and just

rounding people up and raiding places

and going to restaurants and pulling

people out of their houses. And I think

people got very uncomfortable with the

idea of militarized police wearing masks

on the street. Yeah.

>> And then when you find out that these

guys have only been trained for seven

weeks and there they get a $50,000

signing bonus

>> and then you find out that a giant

percentage of them are Latino, which is

kind of crazy. You know, like the two

guys who shot that guy in Minnesota,

they're both Latino

>> and Yeah. I mean, that's what you get

when you have completely untrained,

unprepared people.

>> The whole Minnesota thing with Alex Prey

is a complete cluster I still not

have have not seen verification of

whether or not the the the narrative

that makes sense is true, but the

narrative that makes sense was that

there was an accidental discharge of his

gun as they were pulling it away from

him. And then that led to them thinking

that maybe he still had the gun on him

cuz you're in the chaos of arresting

someone. Someone says he has a gun, a

gun goes off, and then they shoot the

guy.

>> Yeah.

>> Um

>> I bet when you go I bet when they do the

proper evaluation of it, they're going

to find multiple mistakes.

>> I'm sure

>> by the law enforcement

>> that and then there was the thing with

the woman who got shot where you have a

guy who had almost been run over just a

couple of weeks before and been dragged

in his car. The guy who shot her had

been dragged by another vehicle.

>> Oh, I didn't see that.

>> I think he got dragged like 300 ft, too.

Something crazy.

>> So, when a car is coming at him, you

could imagine this guy's got some PTSD

from that. And

>> he should not have been He should not

have been

>> No.

>> And also, Alex,

>> he certainly shouldn't have said that

like after he shoots her

in the face, too. That's crazy, too.

>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean the reaction just the

heartlessness of the reaction to the

killings was terrible, including by the

administration. That's probably why

Christine Gnome ended up having to go.

>> But then on the other side, these

protests are organized. They're

organized and they're paid for, which is

also something to be take that people

need to understand. These are not

organic protests. It's not organic that

it just happened to be taking place in

the very same place where you found

hundreds of millions of dollars in

fraud. Right? This is like one of the

clearest, most obvious distractions

you've ever seen like in in the public

arena like where you have these people

who are being paid to protest. They they

give them money to go out there and

protest. They give them signs. They're

organizing it. They go signal groups.

They're uh doxing all these different

ICE workers. They find out what their

license plates numbers are. They find

out where they're staying. They go to

their hotel. The cops, the local cops

are being told to stand down. So you've

got it like this this convergence of all

these factors that lead to chaos. And

you know Mike Benz was talking about it

and he was essentially saying it's a

mathematical thing and that if you have

these things play out you're going to

have a certain amount. It was Mike Benz

right who was saying that there was a

certain amount of people that are you're

going to have incidences. You're just

playing it out over the numbers. Certain

amount of these protests you have

organized protests. You have untrained

ICE agents. You have a lot of chaos. You

have support for people screaming in the

streets. Someone gets shot. Boom. And

then it moves the needle. And this is

calculated. They want this to happen.

They want it to happen this way because

then this kills all the support for

people that, you know, we're kind of on

the fence whether or not I should be

deporting all illegals.

Excuse me. they should,

excuse me, whether they should just go

after violent criminals and and then

there's these weird narratives like, oh,

only 14% are violent criminals that have

been arrested. But 60% are criminals.

60% of the people plus were criminals.

And like what what by what definition

violent criminals? Like what do you like

what do you is it okay if they just come

in here and rip people off? Like, are

you fine with that? It's just like the

violent ones we need to get rid of.

Like,

>> I think they didn't. Yeah, they did.

They did a fairly poor job of it. Like,

why were they focused on on Minneapolis?

I think most people don't understand how

radical the left in Minneapolis is

because you think it's a Midwestern

place, but it's actually got a long

radical left tradition.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, and as you were saying, I mean, Alex

Prey, he should have been arrested

several days before when he had a gun on

him and got into an altercation with

police. They should have arrested him

then and then they could have the judge

could have done a lot of different

things but they could have taken away

his gun. They could have put a

restraining order on him so that next

time he showed up and people would know

to look for him then he would have been

you know kept out of the area. Do you

know the story about the gun that he was

carrying?

>> No.

>> Okay. So he's carrying a gun called a

Sig P320 which is notorious for

accidental discharges.

>> Not not I mean there's lawsuits all over

the place. There's videos of cops in

precincts bending over to pick something

up and the gun goes off in his holster.

There's a ton of these. So, I don't know

if this is completely accurate because

this is obviously the fog of chaos of

these type of altercations and

situations, but there's a video that

many people have reviewed and it's their

conclusion that if you watch the video

when one of the ICE officers removes his

gun, even though he does not have his

finger on the trigger, has his hand on

the gun and his fingers on the slide, as

he's moving off, it appears the gun goes

off. Now, they've zoomed in on it and

shown that it does look like the gun's

going off, and it does correspond with

the sound of a gunshot. It's It's just

hard to know.

>> You hear a gunshot in the video.

>> Yes, but I don't know if it's

legitimate. It's hard to know. But but

if it was any other gun, like say it was

a Glock, I would say that doesn't make

any sense. His finger's not on the

trigger. It's not going to go off. But

that gun is notorious for going off.

There's a guy online that he he shows a

video where he takes the gun and he

manipulates the slide and it goes off

>> and it goes off without nothing touching

the trigger. No one no one's pulling on

it. It's just if you have the other

problem is people alter guns. Okay. So,

the issue with the Sig was

they they had I believe up to 2017, they

had a lighter trigger and this lighter

trigger if the gun was dropped or if

something happened to it, it was going

off. And they determined it's the gun

does not have an internal safety like

some other guns do. It's I I'm not an

expert, so I don't know exactly what the

trigger mechanism is, but my

understanding is that the trigger

mechanism is different than their other

guns. Like they have another gun that's

notoriously reliable. It's a Sig P365.

You could drop that gun. It's not going

to go off. It's not known for accidental

discharge, but the 320 is known. And

there's tons of videos of people

demonstrating this online. There's a

video where they're on a range and a gun

goes off in a guy's holster. And the

range instructor says, "What the

just happened?" And this guy, he points

to this, you know, the the gun that went

off and he said, "Is that a Sig?"

>> And he goes, "Yeah." He goes, "Get that

thing off the range." So, it's

that notorious, this one particular

model. And it just happened to be the

one particular model that Alex Prey was

carrying, which is crazy.

>> Well, his behavior was really reckless.

I I It's really hard for people to hold

two ideas in their mind at the same

time. Like, Ice

>> messed that up. I think clearly

>> and Alex Prey, I mean, we see the

earlier video, you know, where he kicks

out the tail light of the ICE vehicle,

right?

>> And he's I mean, he's got a gun in the

waistband of his of his jacket. It's

hidden by the jacket. He gets into this

altercation with the police. I mean, I

had when I posted about it, I didn't say

this,

>> but when a lot of the responses were

suicide by cop, people were like,

"Suicide by cop." I mean, and I'm not

making that claim, but I mean, it his

behavior was I mean, the the

recklessness of the gun choice mirrors

the recklessness of his behavior in

those instances. And I heard people

being like, "Oh, well, he you know, he

was just defending that poor woman."

There was a police officer engaged in an

arrest of a person and Alex Prey

intervened in that. I mean, I think you

can mess around.

>> It was a little I don't know if it was

an arrest. The police officer shoved

this woman.

>> Yeah. He put He was in an altercation

with somebody. You don't go people in

other words people go oh you got to put

yourself in what do you think you're

like who what do you think's going on

here like he should put himself in

between that no

>> the way the the the ICE officer wasn't a

police officer right it's an ICE officer

do you call them police the way the ICE

officer reacted to the woman did that

bothered me like he just he just shoved

this lady like like stepped forward and

fully shoved her that's when Alex Freddy

gets involved and then pepper spray

comes out and then

>> and Alex Freddy should have absolutely

filmed that should have filmed the whole

thing. That that's exactly

>> Well, other people were filming it. It

was clear there's cameras all over the

place,

>> but but don't multiple angles.

>> Yeah. So, but it's like um

>> I just don't think that's appropriate

behavior

>> to go and get that's not that's not the

tradition of like I mean I think there's

a nonviolent left-wing tradition that's

actually quite beautiful and spiritual

and thorough and Gandhi and King

>> that's not what was going on in

Minneapolis. That's not at all what's

going on. This is a part of the problem

with these things being organized,

right? Organized paid protests and also

people being radicalized by narratives.

Then of course, very different than what

was going on with the the civil rights

movement. You have social media. So

people are like radically pushed in one

direction or another. And it's not clear

whether or not that's organic. It's not

clear is this the voice of the people or

is this bot farms that are pushing

things in one direction or another? Is

is it I mean there's there's a lot of

people that I I cautiously watch their

their posts on on X where I know that

they're AI. I know it's AI. I can just

tell by the way they write

>> awful now. There's so much AI slop on X

right now. It's weird.

>> It's weird because it does muddy the

water and it does with discourse,

but it also radicalizes people one way

or the radicalizes people towards the

right, radicalizes people towards the

left. It's not good. And I think this

guy, whatever his mental health

struggles were, they they appeared to

exist. It it seems like he was a

troubled guy already. So, a thing comes

along that defines them, a cause that

they're going to stand up for and fight

for cuz their life's probably a

mess and their mind is probably a mess.

And they look at this, they look at it

like it's this black and white binary

situation, good guys and bad guys, and

let's all these fascists. and he's

kicking tail lights and you know and

getting involved in pushing matches with

ICE agents. It's like that's crazy. Like

all that stuff can should and can get

you arrested.

>> Yeah. I mean I think on the organized

issue, remember like the civil rights

movement was really well organized and

in terms it was like actually

>> people weren't being paid for it. It

wasn't being promoted on social media.

It wasn't people's job. There are people

in America right now that are unemployed

that are paid protesters for a living.

Oh, I mean that's the entire like

left-wing NGO sector is basically that,

right? Yeah. I mean that's like we saw I

see the level of San Francisco and for

homelessness they just go and you work

at an NG a government funded or Soros

funded NGO and then you do all that

civil disobedience stuff on your free

time and

>> but I was I just think I think that

you're you right you were right when

you're saying like because I think it's

the problem is not the organization. The

problem is that the organization in

Minneapolis had a goal of causing

exactly what occurred. Yes.

>> The the organization around the civil

rights movement was to desegregate soda

counters. And so one of them was about

actually I mean the other thing is that

brought pull back a little bit further.

Martin Luther King and the civil rights

movement was about affirming our liberal

democratic western civilization. Black

people wanted to be a part of it.

>> Yes. this stuff where you're like, we

want to, you know, open the border and

defund the police and basically start

attacking all of these institutions of

liberal democratic civilization. That's

different. That's a radicalized left.

Um, fundamentally different clear he

defines it best as suicidal empathy.

>> I don't agree with Gad on that.

>> No, you don't think it's suicidal

empathy. I don't think it's either

suicidal or empathic because empathy is

empathy is like

>> well he he applies that to a lot of

progressive ideas not just the

immigration thing. I don't think he

necessarily I think it was actually long

before the immigration thing that he was

talking about at suicidal empathy. The

idea being that you need the rule of law

to have a a safe and peaceful society.

>> Yes, that part is true. That part's

true.

>> Yeah. You need you need no violence. You

need no crime. And when you're taking

criminals and just releasing them from

jail and you have no cash bail and

you're doing all these things, if you

want to put on the tinfoil hat,

you would do that because you want

chaos. Because you want chaos so you can

have more rules and tighten down on

people and have more control over the

sit the civilization.

>> Yeah. I mean, I think in that I mean I

think like it's not empathic to allow

more violent crime. Like I don't think

that's empathy towards victims. So I

don't think I wouldn't call it empathy.

And not only that, but like when you

look at like these who these folks are,

and I spent a lot of time looking at

them and was one of them. Um, they hate

Western civilization. They hate the

United States of America. They hate

capitalism. Like it's it's an

anti-ivilization thing that's motivating

it. And that's not to say that like

MSNBC watchers don't feel, oh, I feel

bad for that person. But I mean, I

always, you know, it's like

>> like the people I hear complain about

ICE, they don't know any illegal

immigrants. they've never talked to them

other than maybe their server or that,

you know, but they don't even really

talk to their gardeners or their or

their, you know, their their maids. Like

it's like the idea that they empathy

implies a deep understanding of

someone's situation. And so I think it's

a misdescription of empathy. I think in

some ways it's more quite the opposite

of that that they're actually not

showing empathy for all the people that

are hurt by their policies. Whether it's

open borders or enabling addiction or

euthanizing poor and mentally ill people

in Canada um or transing kids. I don't

think that those things are empathic and

the person that's doing doing them I

don't think is suicidal. If anything

they're actually quite full of

themselves um and quite arrogant about

what they're doing. I mean, I use the

word pathological altruism in San

Francisco and I say it's close to

monkhousen syndrome by proxy. Maybe it

is monks syndrome by proxy, but I don't

think it's I I worry about I worry about

affirming because I think that's how

progressives go. They go, "Oh, well, if

we if the homeless are are worse off,

that's just because we care so much." I

just don't think that's the case.

>> Well, that's the homeless thing is nuts.

Because the homeless thing is just a

scam and we know that basically because

of California. like California, what

what's happened with the whole homeless

budget is so insane and that they vetoed

audits of these budgets. There's been

$24 billion spent. No one knows where it

went. There's no accountability

>> and then the homeless situation

increases.

>> Well, that's why I mean remember it's

like I it's funny like I my students

just did a paper we have something we've

been working on it too like the Canadian

youth in Asia program. Yeah. And it's

like every year the numbers just keep

going up and up and it remind me of when

you interview homeless you know service

providers in San Francisco they'll be

like yeah know we're doing an amazing

job every year we serve more and more

people. It's like right you have an you

have all the you have the wrong

incentives. You're trying you're you

have an incentive to serve to you have

incentive to create homelessness and

that's what they've done.

>> Well if you get more money if you have

more homeless your incentive is now not

to eliminate homelessness because that's

your job

>> right? That's how you make all your

money. When I first was alerted to that,

I I was like, I can't believe this is

real. Like when you find out the amount

of money that's involved in

homelessness, like that they spend $24

billion. Okay. Where did that go? Where?

And then there's no accountability.

Okay. There's no fraud. You're saying

there's no fraud? Zero.

>> Well, I wish there was fraud. I mean,

somebody was sort of like, can we

expose, you know, like Nick Shirley

exposed the daycarees not doing anything

in Minnesota? I was like, I wish the

homeless service providers weren't doing

anything. They if they were stealing the

money, then there'd be a lot less

homelessness.

>> Well, what So, you think they're

actually using the money to create

homelessness?

>> Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, think about like

So, San Francisco was like between$1 and

$120,000 a year per homeless person. I

think San I think LA had a bargain of

something more like 25,000. That's

that's just San Francisco. That doesn't

count the 24 uh billion that California

gave. So that money is going to, you

know, single resident occupancy hotel

owners. It's going to nonprofit service

providers who are just bringing food

and, you know, alcohol and drug

paraphernalia to make it easier for

people to do drugs and overdose and live

in tents on the street. That's you're

it's very expensive to kill that many

people that way. That's what San

Francisco has proven,

>> right? But it's really about the amount

of people where that's their industry

>> like that. There is an industry in

taking care of the homeless situation

and addressing the homeless situation.

And you know, Kolan Noir when he was on

the podcast, he was explaining to me

that he went to San Francisco and he was

like, "Why is it so bad up here? Do they

need money?" He's like, "No, no, no."

This guy who's a lawyer was explaining

it to he he's a lawyer as well was

explaining it to him like, "No, no.

These people are getting money to deal

with the homeless situation and some of

them are making4 million dollars a year

and and more, which is just nuts." and

then it's not getting better. It's only

getting worse. And yet they ste they

still keep getting that money. So it's

like there's zero incentive to make it

better. There's only an incentive to

make it worse. And then when you have no

accountability, so there's no auditing

of the money. $24 billion is a lot of

money. So where's who's getting

greased up? Where's that money going?

>> Mostly it's into the it's into the

temporary what they call they call it

permanent. It's propaganda word.

Propagan. It's a permanent supportive

housing. It's neither permanent nor

supportive. It's often warehousing

addicts where they die. I mean, we know

that they die at very high levels in

those little this is little crummy, you

know, single resident occupancy rooms.

Yeah.

>> They bought a lot of motel that were,

you know, low lowinccome, you know, low,

you know, cheap motel, converting them,

having but they don't really,

>> there's no I mean, all that money should

have gone into a centralized addiction

and psychiatric care system. Calych is

what it should have been. And instead

it's just um it's just kind of yeah it's

just basically incentivizing people to

live on the streets and use hard drugs

and die and overdose.

>> Well, it's just so crazy. I mean, if you

wanted to make it better, you would

incentivize them and pay them based on

the amount of people that are no longer

homeless,

>> right? But they don't do that.

>> But then the problem with that is, well,

you're eventually going to fix it all

and then your business is going to go

away,

>> right? And that's all happening. I think

it's I think it's all happening

unconsciously like there's no room

there's no like you know secret room

where they're rubbing their hands and

being like oh we're gonna make a lot of

money this way. It's just um you know

when you interview them it's a very

basic view you know it's just these

people are victims. They're victims of

white supremacy and capitalism and and

to victims everything should be given

and nothing required. Well, I think

that's a nice narrative, but I think

once you start getting monthly paychecks

from from the homeless industrial

complex, I think your incentive is to

keep this party going.

>> Well, sure, but they but they think it's

good. I mean, they they go, "This shows

how how good we're doing that we got a

bigger budget this year." And that's how

they that's how they rationalize it.

Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, it's a sign of a very sick

society. Hence the title of your book,

San Francisco Sicko, which is a great

title. I mean, it's a sick place and it

was one of my favorite cities. It It was

an amazing city. I filmed my Netflix

special there in 2016. So, in just the

amount of time in 10 years, it's

completely fallen apart. When I was

there in 2016, it was great with the I

mean, there was always a lot of homeless

people there, but you have that in any

liberal city, but it was never an

epidemic. It was never like tents

everywhere and on the streets. That

wasn't the case. It was just, you know,

it was a liberal city, a progressive

liberal city, but it was cool. There was

a lot of outdoor music. It was fun. It

was a great place to go to restaurants

and people walked around. It was a a

great city filled with intelligent,

interesting, open-minded people. Man, I

lived there when I was a little kid. I

was there during the Vietnam War. From

age 7 to 11, I I lived in San Francisco.

It's a little bit better now. They've

had a new mayor. Yeah, a little bit. Um

I mean, I want to acknowledge I can't

lie about it. It's a little bit better.

I agree. Um I interview a lot of people

still about what's going on.

>> It's still there. Like,

>> did you see what happened with the mayor

>> with his security guard got pulled down?

Yeah.

>> First of all, security needs to learn

some jiu-jitsu.

>> The way he let that guy grab him, you he

didn't pummel. He didn't do anything. It

looked like he had no understanding of

what to do when that guy grabbed his

body. Like, how is he a security guard?

That's crazy. How How can you be a

security for the mayor if you literally

don't know what to do in a clinch?

>> I thought he looked like he didn't

really see the guy as a threat or

something like maybe he thought he was

just crazy homeless.

>> Even if I didn't see a guy as a threat,

if a guy grabs me like that, I'm not

going to let him get that position on

me.

>> And he cut it back. Apparently, he cut

his back of his head and said,

>> banged him on the ground. He bodys

slammed onto the concrete and

then kind of a metaphor for the whole

situation. He just walks away d and he

walked away like it was nothing. Like he

walked away not he didn't run.

>> Did you see though? Cuz I saw that video

and I couldn't tell if the mayor

actually saw what was happening.

>> He seemed like he was going he was

looking that way and his

started physically struggling with each

other and then when they're struggling

with each other he walks off and then

the guy gets body slam.

>> It was the weirdest video to watch.

Yeah. Both because they both seem so

nonchalant. They both seem Yeah. As a

metaphor from the city.

>> This is a different angle. The mayor

actually is running off to get help.

>> Oh, he is. Okay.

>> Running off.

>> Yeah. Let me uh refresh this real quick.

>> Show me. I'm not kidding.

>> So, there's the mayor right there.

>> Okay.

>> He pushes this guy here in a second. The

mayor sort of as soon as he gets to the

sidewalk, he takes off.

>> So, why why are they hanging out with

this guy in the first place?

>> That looks like they're in right there.

>> So, the security guard started it and he

doesn't know what the he's doing.

>> And there's the over here.

>> Okay. Oh, look at his like shitty techn

better video.

>> And the other guy's a lot stronger than

him. So the mayor,

>> he walks off. Hold on. He takes he

starts running right. He seems relaxed.

>> Okay. Okay. He did start walking slowly

and then starts but

>> going to get help.

>> That guy started it all. He pushed that

guy. If you're a security guy, the last

thing you want to do when there's one of

you and two of those other guys is deal

with a situation that way where you push

a guy.

>> I'm I have to say, it's so interesting

you say it. I'm always surprised when I

see them do like that was the same thing

that happened with the Freddy.

>> We're just talking about it.

>> Don't you think this guy's probably

armed, too? I mean,

but also he shouldn't have pushed that

guy that way. I mean, the whole thing is

stupid.

>> Look at the look at the chaos. So,

somebody else just running around,

another homeless person or something?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> The other guy's probably talking I

bet that guy's funny. I bet he's the guy

with a big coat on.

>> I mean, I don't

For the life of me, none of it makes

sense,

>> right?

>> None of it makes sense. The the the

mayor walking off casually and then

eventually running. It doesn't make

sense. The security guy just walked up

to the those guys and pushed him when

your details to take care of the mayor.

You should be escorting him around that

and getting him away from any potential

trouble. Like the brazenness of just

walking up and pushing that guy where

you don't know how to fight at all. It's

very clear when you watch the way they

grappled with each other. He doesn't

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>> Seems like we're having a lot of

security problems in our society right

now.

It's wild, right? I can't believe the

pushing. I mean, that's even the pretty

thing. Like, why pushing? Is that like a

Is that like an important law

enforcement technique? I mean, what is

that?

>> Well, not only that, he pushed a small

woman. The the ICE guy just completely

just fullon shoves this small woman,

>> which means he was emotionally out of

control first, right? Like, it means

that he was angry. He was angry.

>> These guys are not like special forces

guys. They're not well trained. These

guys are seven weeks.

>> Seven weeks. And a lot of them are

financially incentivized cuz like if you

can get $50,000 to like if you're in

debt and then you could take this job on

and I don't when they get the $50,000

how long do they have to stay on the job

for to to to have that money to have

that signing bonus or is it one of those

things where you get the $50,000 as a

signing bonus but you pay it like a

record deal type deal where you don't

it's not really your money you have to

make it up later I imagine. Still, if

you can get $50,000, there's a lot of

people that'll take that job.

>> Yeah, I they're just um Yeah, it was

just a bunch of bad bad choices made by

the Trump administration on that one.

>> Someone's uh Reddit comments saying they

have no personal experience, but they've

heard that it's 50K over four years if

you're in good standing at the end of

those four years,

>> right?

>> Oh, so you only get it after four years,

>> but that might not. But for some people

that have no job opportunities and no

nothing on the horizon, that $50,000

looks like,

>> look, it's an extra 25k a year or an

extra, you know, 25k

>> um for for four years for 50 for

>> another person says that's incorrect.

It's broken into 10 payments once at 90

days, then once every year for four more

years. Anyway, it's broken out.

>> Either way, it's $50,000 that you would

not have been able to make ordinarily.

>> I mean, we had police shortages before

2020. We had a bunch of police shortages

after that, mostly by police officers

who were just

>> felt mistreated by the society and by

their local mayors who said that they

were evil.

>> Well, didn't a lot of cops resign when

Donnie got elected?

>> Oh, I'm sure. And then a COVID drove and

then they and a bunch of police officers

driven out during COVID. So, there was

already our our security

>> forces have been, you know, and they

were just

>> people underestimate how important it is

to feel like important in your job and

and respected. And it's not just about

the money because they would be offering

more money. But I think a lot of people

like, "Oh, no. I don't want to be in a

job where people are like spitting at me

or throwing urine and not just a job

where your life is on the line.

>> Yeah. Your your life is already on the

line and then you're mistreated by the

wider societ which actually creates

additional risks, you know, as this

chaos in Minneapolis shows. So yeah,

it's just um people want to believe that

they're doing something that is

appreciated by the community. And so

when the community decides that they're

against policing, your civilization's

pretty far gone,

>> right? This is the difference between

policing and this ICE thing. The ICE

thing is a different thing, right?

They're looking at it differently. It's

not like you're watching a violent

altercation take place. The police show

up and people are spitting on them like

you're trying to break up a violent

crime. This is different. They're

looking at it like in the progressive

narrative is like no one's illegal on

stolen land and we need to have open

borders and illegals or immigrants

rather are the foundation of this

country. And you hear all that those

narratives. the president and those the

president and the administration, they

wanted to pick a fight obviously with

this left-wing with activists in this

leftwing city. They thought it would

redown to their benefit to show how

crazy the left was and it backfired on

them.

>> Well, I think they wanted to do

something about the amount of illegal

fraud that was just recently exposed in

Minneapolis.

>> But that I don't know that that's but

you wouldn't do it with ICE raids,

though. I mean,

>> well, it's illegal immigrants. If you

have illegal immigrants that are

responsible for hundreds of millions of

dollars in fraud and you know at least

some of them are illegal, it's it seems

rational that you would send ICE in to

find out who's illegal and who's not and

put a stop to some of it. And there's

also this nationwide focus on this one

place because of the Nick Shirley

videos.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Though I think that the motivate

my understanding um is that the

motivation was to uh motivate people

that are here illegally to self-

deepport. And so that that's the the

main part of the strategy is this show

of force because of course it's they

wanted the publicity. They wanted people

to be scared and self-epport. They claim

that you know 1 I think 3 million people

self-epported or 1.4 and then another

400,000 or 600,000

>> deported through the normal channels.

And apparently they're just limited to

how many people they can actually deport

through the normal channels. But they

can get people can self-epport. They can

just go

>> right. And because of course there's

this thing called E-Verify where you

just have the employers have to prove

that everybody you're employing is here

legally and they don't want to do that.

Trump administration doesn't want to do

that because they'll upset in particular

like the agricultural lobby but others

who dep construction

>> who depend on so it's a it's a funny

it's not great. I don't know. I'm not

saying that there's that I have the

perfect, you know, answer to the other

one, but obviously like politically the

president doesn't feel like they can do

everify and maintain support from the

business community for his political

agenda. So, you end up but you end up

with a kind of underclass that's here

illegally, but that's protected because

they're working in a sector that the

president and the administration wants

to protect, but then you're also

self-deporting people. I I'm not sure

exactly how they're thinking about it,

but that appears to be uh what the the

heart of their goal is is

>> well, this was always, you know, what a

lot of people on the left back in the

day would say that illegal immigrants

was this was a like a Koch brothers

thing. this was like a right-wing thing

that they wanted this for

>> for exactly what you just described and

that this is not a left-wing progressive

idea and that what it would do was would

lower the wages for the lower class and

the middle class of this country and it

would be bad for the citizens. And so

you don't want unchecked illegal

immigration. Unchecked illegal

immigration would just be for the right

because they're the ones who own these

massive corporations that are profiting

off of illegal labor. They don't have to

pay them benefits. they don't have to

pay them health care, any of the things

that are, you know, that cost money.

>> Yeah. I mean, the on the left was always

balancing a sort of open society. You

know, they wanted the Soros Foundation

always wanted to have a free movement of

people to that was sort of their view of

why part why the Holocaust occurred is

that you couldn't move people, you know,

you know, or at least the persecutions,

you couldn't move people as easily. But

then you had the working class, you

know, who were negatively affected by

bringing in migrants who would push down

wages and unions who were a big part of

the Democratic party. So the Democrats

were sort of divided on it for a while,

but they managed it. And Hillary and

Obama would sort of if you look at when

they were competing in in 2008, they

were very carefully like there was a

whole thing around like driver's

licenses, whether she would give them or

not, and Obama accused Hillary of of

kind of playing both sides of it, you

know, typical thing. But they also both

spoke out strongly against uh mass

migration. Fast forward 10 year no fast

forward much more than that. It was at

16 years into in today and now you've

got a much more workingclass Republican

party who's unified around uh keeping

the borders closed and and restricting

the supply of low-income unskilled

workers because I mean it's just

obvious. I mean, it's it was really

weird to watch people that are always

defending supply and demand and

economics and economic policy then say,

"Oh, no, but having open borders and

having all these working-class people

come in um is going to have no impact on

wages when obviously it would." And I

think that's now that's also now gone. I

think that's another thing that's just

Trump has just changed. I don't think

you're going to see Democrats going back

to advocating that kind of mass

migration again,

>> right? But you could see a world where

they would push back against what has

happened. What what they would say the

barbaric nature of some of these ICE

raids and then saying from there's

filtered ice water in that too if you'd

like. But you don't have to not have

your bottle. We don't care.

>> Oh, it's in the shot. No.

>> No, it doesn't matter. We don't care. It

doesn't matter. Um, but you could see