if you want to make more money you might

want to consider doing this so number

one is hold that thought for just a

second because the thing that comes

before that is this grow of yours oh God

this is the entrepreneur life cycle and

there are six stages now the vast

majority of people get stuck on stage

three and I've made some of the biggest

career mistakes at this point and you

end up living the same 6 months for 20

straight years suffering until you learn

how to break free from it I want to go

through the whole thing this is going to

be awesome Alex horos is the master of

business strategy an autist in tring

companies into the millions and a

leading voice in how to craft your way

to success he's an entrepreneurial

Powerhouse whether you're starting out

or want to go from 1 million to 10

million there are certain behaviors and

actions that will increase the

likelihood of success that we're going

to go through but here's the really hard

truth that a lot of people don't like

talking about entrepreneurs must be

willing to make impossible choices have

the courage to be willing to be wrong

have Shame by failing at things in front

of people whose opinions they care about

and that fear keeps people stuck in a

job and a life they don't want for years

and that was my path I had a white

collar job condo overlooking the city

everything's according to plan and I

remember thinking like I didn't want to

be alive cuz I was so afraid but once

you get over the fear it unleashes this

whole new realm of possibility of being

able to do what you want and that is

when you can learn the real game of

Entrepreneurship such as knowing that

business ideas typically come from one

of three piece and you only need one of

those three and then there's the four RS

for customer success how to learn new

skills quickly how to stand out in a

competitive market the winning strategy

for 2025 and so much more so where

should I start

I have been forced into a bet with my

team we're about to hit 10 million

subscribers on YouTube which is our

biggest Milestone ever thanks to all of

you and we want to have a massive party

for the people that have worked on this

show for years behind the scenes so they

said to me Steve for every new

subscriber we get in the next 30 days

can $1 be given to our celebration fund

for the entire team and I've agreed to

the bet so if you want to say thank you

to the team behind the scenes at D of

here all you've got to do is hit the

Subscribe button actually this is the

first time I'm going to tell you not to

subscribe because it might end up

costing me an

[Applause]

[Music]

awful Alex if someone's just clicked on

this conversation and they're

considering listening for the next

couple of hours based on everything that

you do for the millions of entrepreneurs

that follow you that read your books can

you tell me exactly why you believe they

should stay and listen and who should

stay and listen at

acquisition. we scale

businesses the content that I generate

that we put out conversations like this

helps people who are going from Z to one

just getting off the ground to helping

people go from 1 million to 10 million

um to helping the entrepreneurs going

from 10 to 100 either get there or exit

along the way and there are Frameworks

that cross all three of those that I

consider both deep and wide um that help

any business navigate whatever strategic

decision is in front of them to get The

Highest Potential return for their time

and so if you're listening or watching

then if one of those Frameworks applies

immediately to your business and allows

you to pull five years forward in your

career I would say that's a pretty good

return on time for the people that are

at zero yeah what is it that they're

typically coming to you to help them

with so if you were one of them yeah

what is it that they want from Alex hzi

I think it's um there's what they think

they want and what they actually need um

which are two different things and so I

think what they think they want is uh

some tactic that's going to immediately

help them start a business um what they

typically actually need is um the

courage to be willing to be wrong and to

be willing to have Shame by failing at

things in front of people whose opinions

they care about and I think that's like

if I re rewind the clock for me it was

probably one of the hardest things that

I had to get over and so I think that's

why maybe my message resonates with a

lot of people is because it was so hard

for me um to get over and what's

interesting is basically anybody who's

listening the harder it is for you to

break free of whatever kind of mental

prison you've made for yourself whether

that's real or just in in your head

the more compelling your story will be

when you break through it um because it

will resonate with even more people uh

for the people that it was easy that

their story doesn't have doesn't have a

lot like I was immediately an

entrepreneur like I wasn't like that I

had a job when I was in high school I

had a job immediately out of college

some people were like I was selling

lemonade out of the back of my you know

thing when I was 13 I didn't do any of

that like I School failed me I actually

was pretty good at school uh I didn't

have any of those issues you know what I

mean and so I had a pretty clear career

path and so I had many would consider

like I had a real opportunity cost so I

had a white collar job and I had uh a

GMAT score above Harvard's mid score and

so I had a a really clear path of what

my life would could look like in the

next 20 30 years and it was fairly well

defined like I'll go to Harvard or

Stanford or one of the top Business

Schools and then I will either go back

into management consulting or I'll go

into Investment Banking and then

eventually end up in private Equity um

and that would be the path right and

then all the flowers would be set at my

feet and you know everyone would say we

approve of you you're an excellent

person but when I saw the people who

were 20 years ahead of me I really

didn't want their life and then it

started making me look at my life and I

was like I don't even know if I really

want my life um and so the the big

decisions that I've made in my life

unfortunately um have almost always come

at the at the the doorstep of a parent

death um and I think maybe in some ways

that makes me a coward uh for having

needed death to make decisions and so

operational realizing that has been

something that has helped me move faster

to make decisions that I know I need to

make but don't and so like the first big

kind of like what felt like a death

decision was um I was a consultant 22 is

years old I had a paid for you know

condo that I bought uh overlooking the

city and I remember thinking like I

really hope I don't wake up tomorrow and

that and I don't mean that to be

melodramatic it just I just for a period

of time I just always just like hooped

every night I was like I just really up

I don't wake up tomorrow like I just

don't want to do this and what was

difficult about that was that at that

time was when my father was most proud

of me uh because I was doing everything

that was according to plan you know he

could talk like his son who graduated in

three years from Vanderbilt had the had

the good job like everything was we're

following the plan um and it was upon

realizing that my ultimate expression of

living out his dream was me feeling like

I didn't want to be alive and so in and

it took me time to get to that point to

even articulate that because obviously

you never want to kind of like admit

failure of like I have really messed

something up here um but I was living my

life to win someone else's game and when

I realized that I realized that one of

our dreams had to die either his or mine

and when I realized that his dream must

die in order for mine to live was a a

statement that I kind of crystallized

when I was at that point in my life like

I had to keep repeating that like his

dream has to die in order for mine to

live and so to put this in perspective

of like how afraid of my father's

judgment I was I left the state and

drove across the country halfway through

before calling him to tell him that I

was gone and so I I bring this up

because I don't try I'm not trying to be

dramatic here but I'm saying that if you

feel a lot of pressure I get it like I

tried to leave the job that I was at to

pursue just literally anything that

wasn't that just I wanted to start a

business at some point I didn't know how

I was going to do it I just knew that

what I was doing was not the path I

wanted to be on and everybody around me

wanted me to be on that path and so I

went to go be like hey I'm thinking

about doing something else and you know

it would always be that ah you know

don't later later like everything's good

later you know and um I remember when I

called my dad and I told him that he

said understand why don't you come like

come home well uh well I didn't tell him

that I was I was gone yet like I said

hey I want you know I want to go pursue

this Fitness thing

um he said cool come over for lunch

we'll talk about it you know and and he

and I was like I'm I'm already gone and

then obviously his tone changed a lot um

and um and you know our relationship

struggled for you know years after that

and I I also bring that up because

sometimes there's this illusion that

like you know you get on the on the

Oscar stage or whatever it is and you're

like hey I just want to think you know

my mom my dad my friends for always

supporting me and um I can't say that

and I wish I could and you might not not

be able to say that either and I also

don't think that's a reason not to do it

and so um we did struggle for years

after that to kind of like because I was

basically living as what was once his

prodical son uh goes and takes a minimum

wage job as a personal trainer at a gym

uh like you know cleaning floors and

stuff to learn just to learn the gym

business um but that was ultimately like

how I broke free literally you know

physically uh leaving the area and you

know mentally but I think that I had to

accept that

there was a there was a timeline where

my father would never talk to me again

and I had to be okay with that um to

pursue what I wanted and I think that

when you ask the original question what

are the people from 0 to one really

looking for I read tons of business

books at that time but I couldn't use

any of them because I was so afraid and

what's crazy is that like I think about

it now in retrospect and it's like it's

crazy how large the perceived monsters

can appear and Leila has this quote that

I love but it's um is a mile wide an

inch deep and so you look at it it looks

like this ocean and then you take the

first step and you realize you don't

drown because it's like oh there's

ground underneath of this right there's

other people who are more on my path and

the friends you lose you gain new

friends right and so um that

fear was the hardest decision that I've

had to overcome in my entrepreneural

career and I think of all the of all the

the split paths in my life that was the

one that if I had many timelines or many

universes that existed that was is

probably the one that is the most likely

that I would not have parted from so I

think in like 90% of universes that Alex

rosi exists I'm just a consultant

somewhere and so um I would encourage

you if you do feel that you're not going

to die like you won't die and you might

just

live it's so interesting because I think

everything you've said is just

absolutely spot on but you're right in

way you say that if you'd asked an

audience member listening now why they

haven't started yet they would say fear

they would say I haven't got the X I

haven't got the Y but actually it is

such an emotional thing and we don't

talk about that enough because

uncertainty is humans seem to be

allergic to uncertainty and they'd

rather the certain misery of their

current situation typically than

uncertainty and I think um and I and I

used what I consider a very non-p

palatable word of coward purposefully

because no one wants to say they're

afraid because if you say you're afraid

then it means you're a coward and I

think that it only means coward if you

don't if you allow that fear to change

your behavior in an aversive way as in

it not towards what you want and so you

know the inverse of that many people

have heard it Courage is not acting um

without fear but despite fear um and I

think that um when you

act when you allow fear to change your

behavior the wrong way that is when you

can give yourself that title of coward

and I think that that is a title that I

feared my whole life and that label is

almost I'm more afraid of that label

than the label of failure I'd rather be

a failure than a

coward is there a framework for knowing

when to

quit so I think there's the there's like

the math behind it and the math I think

is pretty straightforward so like when

do you quit your business I like you've

saved up three to six months of personal

savings number one number two is that

you have started something because

nowadays in the digital age you can

begin a business on the side that can

generate income and that income um in

the small amount of time that you're not

working uh replaces or at least matches

the existing income you have from your

your current job and you've been able to

do that or demonstrate that income for

like 3 to six months if you do that

that's a very like math way of

approaching it that also is basically

never the reason that people aren't

quitting their job right like that's a

really s like I have I have I have

backlog I've matched my current income

with my part-time work and if I just put

my full-time work I would probably make

more very reasonable but never actually

the reason that people don't do it I was

I was thinking about the two sort of

reasons why someone might quit something

or feel like they want to quit and one

of them is clearly because it's hard and

that's obviously not reason enough to

quit and then there's another one which

you are speaking to there which is it's

not moving me towards a meaningful goal

irrespective of how hard it is like a

marathon you're raising money for a

charity you care about it's hard but you

don't quit yeah and then there's maybe

if you're running a marathon for no

apparent reason you know there was no

charity there was no one watching there

was no like Fitness benefit then that's

a good I guess moment to consider

quitting um my story mimics yours in a

way that I didn't realize I didn't

realize you went through a similar thing

in terms of call the parents

disownership yeah um no real great

option to to flee to but feeling like

the current path that would have led me

to be I don't know business management

student was significantly worse on

balance than taking the risk but I think

maybe a point of Distinction is it

didn't I was so naive that it didn't

feel like a risk yeah so what's really

interesting about that is um the

guarantee and so a lot of times we don't

we don't look at what I call the don't

which is like the the alternate path and

so if I had played out my existing path

I had a guarantee of outcome I didn't

want it was just out a

delay whereas here there's a chance that

I can make it and so one of the final

kind of framework for making the

decision was guaranteed bad chance at

good and I was like well I might as well

take a chance and I I strongly um

encourage thinking about uh playing it

out and so what I mean by that is like I

think

fear exists in the vague not in the

specific and so when you say I'm GNA

quit my job and then what if this

doesn't work I'm GNA failure tons of

fear

if I say I'm going to quit my job and

then I'm going to try and start a

business and if the business doesn't

work I'll probably have a compelling

story that I could tell for business

school if I wanted to to show that I had

some entrepreneurial slant in the

meantime I could use that experience

plus my job experience to probably get

another or maybe even better job in the

meantime and match or or supersede my

existing income and the actual loss

would be maybe the savings that I had

saved up but if I'm younger or I haven't

made as much money as I want then that's

never been the amount of money that

would be material anyways on the grand

scheme of what I would like to make um

and in terms of living situation I will

worst case go back to my parents house

with my tail between my legs or sleep at

a friend's couch because I have enough

people that would be willing to put me

up in a garage if I had to and so it's

like okay so my actual worst case

scenario is just like I have a cool

story and maybe some shame that I is

self-inflicted cuz it's not like no one

else cares really but it's

self-inflicted shame

and maybe a detour or a different story

that I have to tell later on in my

career not as much fear there right but

like the first one like I'll fail

everyone will hate me and I'll die the

first one sounded like it was written by

your like amigdala like the Fierce and

the second one was pure like prefrontal

cortex it was all logic yeah and I'm

wondering you know as you're going into

that decision obviously fear is going to

lead it so of course you're going to go

for option one where you just think

about the downside maybe there's a

practice that allows you to get into

your prefrontal cortex into logic and I

think that's I actually so I think you

nailed it and said it way better than I

did but I think that's I think going

from vague to specific basically

disengages your mdala because it's it

can't reason the logic chain of

causation and causality of what's going

to happen next in a chain of events and

so when you get into the specific of it

all of a sudden you're like okay I'm not

going to be homeless and then shamed and

die um I might live in inferior living

conditions for a short period which by

the way when you're later on in your

life you'll look back and think of as

the good old days cuz I can't believe I

was couch surfing I was pursuing my

dreams right it's it's only like in the

moment that it feels bad when you look

back like even I I find this hilarious

like like how long after you do

something embarrassing is it

funny right like at at some point for

almost all of us with enough time the

shameful experience becomes funny and so

if it is going to become funny

eventually it might as well become funny

now yeah and so it's just like pulling

the time Horizon up but all of that

prefrontal cortex decision making and so

um no but I think that's exact like I

think that that nailed it because when I

thought about this this decision

obviously I had my very you know

emotional statement around like his

dream has to die for mine to live yes

also logic downside risk here I'll have

a story and I can always get my job

back okay and if I can't get that job

back I'll will have other ones that will

be available fine and if I have a

downgrading and some people think that

I'm not as successful as then okay I'll

not stop though and so I think that that

that demystifies a lot of the fears I

think that applies not just for

entrepreneurial fears I think applies

for any fear like I'm going to talk like

I can't tell this person this bad news

all right let's play it out I say

something and then they're going to kill

me probably not so what's going to

happen I'll say these words and then

there they they they'll flip the table

they'll they'll flick me off they'll

maybe just feel hurt and maybe they'll

cry maybe they'll shout okay okay if

they shouted at me what do I do like and

you just kind of play it out and you're

like okay I think I have like most of

these conditions prepared for and then

all of a sudden you can like have those

things what you also said is that in the

face of guaranteed misery any option is

better yeah like it's real you get to

live once yeah so like why would

guaranteed misery be better than any

available option it's delay discounting

that's what's crazy is delay discounting

happens both ways like um so like you

set your alarm for 5:00 a.m. at night

and you're like I'm going to wake up at

5: but that's because you're delaying

the pain of waking up and when it's

immediate when I have to quit the job

like I'll quit my job tomorrow for 20

years and so it's just like we always we

we we delay the fact that we're going to

be miserable into the present uh to like

a like we we massively discount what a

whole lifetime of misery would be amen

when you're thinking about what to

pursue so say you've left the job you've

quit the thing when you're thinking

about what to

pursue how much of that is a

decision derived from self-awareness

because you know they'll someone will

look at you now and be like Oh No Alex

did this so I'm going to start a

acquisition. comom you know or they'll

say um I want to I saw Steve Jobs did

that thing with the computers I'm going

to start Apple yeah right or Elon I'm

going to do the spaceships how much do

you have to know thyself to know what to

pursue man this is a really good

question so um there's a tweet that I

love by Andrew Wilkinson which is um

every entrepreneur ever colon here's the

winning number for my lottery ticket and

so it's like every entrepreneur will say

here's the winning lottery ticket but

it's like that game already that drawing

already happened ah okay yeah right and

so like you can't cash that ticket in

it's already done and so people say the

word first principles no one really

knows what it means uh I mean some

people do but the I think far more

people say it than know what it means

and so basically there are foundational

truths of business that that exist and

the conditions of the environment will

change and so you have to apply those

truths to whatever the current condition

is and so that's what I try and tease

out with the books and the stuff that I

that I put out in content but at the end

of the day you have an input of time

like zooming all the way out if the goal

assuming that your goal is to make money

okay like and this is just a purely

economic business goal then you have

time which is the primary currency that

you trade it and you make dollars over a

period of time and so I tend to reject

the idea of like never you know never

trade time for dollars or anything like

that because everyone trades time for

dollars it's just some of us are more

efficient at it than others but even

exchanges that occur that just are not

denominated in time still occur over

time and so uh you have this

foundational unit of time which you're

going to give in what we're seeking is

the highest return on that time and so

there you know within a business context

there's kind of three levels of uh

things that have to occur in business

you have to you know attract attention

you have to convert attention then you

have to deliver something uh for that

attention and in each of those things

you want as much leverage as possible so

you want as little time as possible

required to get the most output and so I

have built acquisition. comom on

basically two primary thesis uh which

are in the logo which is this is a full

Crum for leverage for people that can't

see it's like a triangle yeah so it's

like a triangle or the Illuminati

because that always gets brought up um

right so we've got the full Crum for

leverage and then inside of it you have

supply and demand and I see those as the

two foundational principles of business

and so which is you need supply and

demand to have a business and then

leverage to get as much out of it as you

possibly can and so um when you're

looking at the assets that you have

assets can also be skills resources what

you have available to you now if you

have nothing then all you have is your

brain your hands and the time that you

have that you can put towards learning

something which is why I'm a big fan of

skill acquisition as one of the the

primary things that you can do is

educating yourself and not formally

educating but informally or

alternatively educating yourself on

super tactical things uh once you get

over the fear then you start asking okay

okay how do I let people know about my

stuff and what do I let them know right

and so you have to have something to

sell which is the offer and ideally you

want the offer to have as much leverage

as possible like so if you sold software

or you sold media those are things that

you can U cut once sell sell a thousand

times um if you have a conversion

mechanism it's like you can have it be

automated like a check out page or some

sort of video sales letter or something

like that where people just buy without

a phone salesperson if you add a phone

salesp person there's less leverage not

to say this wrong but you you want to

have the highest leverage opportunity

and then from a um from the

deliverability expect uh perspective um

I kind of talked about deliverability

first but uh from the advertising

perspective uh if you reach out to

people one-onone that's lower leverage

than being able to make one piece of

content that a million people see right

and so over time you go from low

leverage to high leverage uh where you

have the same inputs but you just get

significantly more for your output and

that fundamentally is like if we're

reasoning up from first principles how

do I get the said differently the

question someone I think is really

asking is how do I get the most for what

I put in and you have to reason within

your current context of your skills and

your resources and your assets in order

to derive that solution for you so if

someone walks up to you in the street

and they say Alex what idea should I

pursue I've just quit my job yeah right

so I would say um business idea is

typically come from one of three PS so

it comes from a pain that you're

currently experiencing a past profession

so the thing that you just quit or some

of the jobs that you just quit or a

passion MH so it's something that you're

inherently interested in that you would

spend your time doing

anyways uh some skill that you learned

while you were in the workforce which by

the way is one of the most proven ways

of making money because the economy has

already showed you that people are

willing to exchange money for that for

that specific job and so uh in the world

of gig economies and solar preneurs

every business can be dismantled into

just jobs being done and all of those

jobs can be fractionalized so anybody

like we look at any business you've got

sales you've got you've got marketing

you've got customer uccess you've got

you've got customer support if you want

to differentiate that you've got product

you've got design you've got web pages

there's you know there's so many

different components to a business you

just need to learn one of them and then

it's like boom you have a skill that you

can trade for money that you don't have

anybody else to report to um and then

pain is usually I think um in some ways

um sometimes one of the biggest drivers

it's like you had an eating allergy and

you couldn't find pancakes that dealt

with your specific eating all and you

bet that there's a decent amount of

other people with that allergy that also

like pancakes and so then you make

pancakes that that are delicious and

amazing that also cater to people with

that food allergy and then all of a

sudden like you have a business based on

pain and why why does that matter what

the Pain part um I what leverage and

Advantage does it give you for the next

five years I think that deep knowledge

of the prospect is Paramount or very

important for creating exceptional

products and you can either do that by

doing a ton and ton of research or by

being the Prospect and there's a certain

amount of like visceral feel that you'll

know like if someone wants to make a

nose product for breathing I have tried

every product since I was in eth grade

so it's been 20 plus years 30 whatever a

lot of years um that since then and I've

tried everything and so I know the pros

and cons of every product that exists on

the market and I can tell because and

I've done it's not like oh I tried it

for a day it's like I'll try things for

a month at a time and so I have so much

time exposure to this problem that I

have a lot of nuance in my opinion on

what's wrong with the solutions so I can

formulate a way better hypothesis on how

to fix it and that hypothesis would will

be for an investor so much more

compelling because you lead with a story

as opposed to logic I met the guy who uh

invested in Regal Cinemas which is the

probably the biggest chain in the US um

and it was when it was there was guy had

just one theater and it became now

obviously Co has disrupted that business

but you know for 20 you know years

whatever they they crushed and he said

it was so weird to say that oh Cinemas

are going to make a comeback because

they'd kind of been on a downturn or

something like that during the time that

he was making the investment and he said

the reason I decided to invest in it was

because this guy knew everything about

the business down to how much the cost

of Colonel of popcorn was and he just

knew it so like the back of his hand

that he was like this guy can't fail

like he just knows too much about this

business to not have it work and so he

investing in you know making gazillion

dollars and so but I think that that

deep understanding and if you look at

all of these the passion things you'll

have deep understanding because you're

spending spending all of your

discretionary time pursuing this passion

the pain you have a deep understanding

of the of the problem and the prospects

going through it because you've

experienced it probably for years now

the professional one I would say is a

bit of a shortcut um because if you're

quitting the job because you don't like

it and then you say I'm now going to do

this for myself well you're

okay um I mean well the the the one the

one proven point about that is that that

one is proven to work from an economic

perspective

you will be able to make money doing

that because you already have made money

doing it these other two are less proven

but sometimes have a significantly more

upside when you were talking about the

breathing example with your nose it's

funny because if you had sat down and

said to me Steve I've made these like

breathing nose strips um they are better

they're 20% more durable they expand

your nostrils by 20% it is multiples

less compelling than you telling me that

story you just said about being a kid

having breathing problems trying to

solve this problem for yourself and it's

funny cuz that that story you told

versus the sort of rational logical

approach or the benefits approach is

your marketing campaign for the next

five years on Tik Tok and Instagram it's

I had a problem I solved it I tried

everything and solved it for myself

there's almost like nothing more

compelling and believable no we see that

in Dragon's Den it we'll be sat there

listening to these pictures all day then

someone will come in and say I had ADHD

I tried Energy Products they all made me

crash so I went out and solved this

problem for myself and we're on edge cuz

we almost can't argue with it yeah at

that point you know yeah so basic has

this great framework where he talks

about missionaries and mercenaries and

so it's kind of like you have the guy

who says okay I looked at market trends

and this is a growing category and you

know I surveyed people and this was the

you know the result that came back and

so I believe that if we time this

product right uh at this point in the

market we'll achieve huge you know a

mass adoption blah blah blah blah and

it's like loging your way through and to

be fair some people do you know do make

it work but the missionaries are the

ones that end up making the most money

because is like they do it sure for the

money cuz the business has to have some

economic engine behind it but really

because they viscerally experienced this

problem and don't want anyone else to

solve to deal with that problem either

and so like if I were to tell that story

like you were saying like when I was in

eth grade it was the first year that I I

started really noticing I couldn't

breathe at night and so I learned how to

fall asleep with my hand on my face like

this so that my nostril would so I could

fall asleep in my hand with because you

there's no actually other because you

can't hold your because you fall asleep

right and so if I fall asleep with my

hand like this right like like I'm on

the couch and I fall asleep like that it

keeps my nostril open and I can fall

asleep and it doesn't move and so that's

how I learned how to sleep for years uh

before founding like just like simple

nasal strips and things like that but

there's tons of problems with with those

solutions that exist right now that I

won't get into but um maybe someday I'll

make a nasal product I think I mean

literally just

delivered [ __ ] I can tell you if you

put if you put every product in front of

me that exists right now I can tell you

what's wrong with it cuz I've tried I've

tried literally all of them not like I'm

pretty obsessive and so like I've tried

all of them missing opportunity here

I've tried I've tried the ones from

Europe I've tried the like not just us

like I've tried I've tried every product

that exists on Amazon I've tried all the

ones from foreign countries every every

fan or follower who sends me a product

that is a nasal company that's new um I

will try the product I still do um and

there has yet there's there's yet to be

one that has truly solved it I mean you

should I

mean but I I think in some ways uh so

this is actually a really good meta uh

concept here which is that um if you

want to be compelling a demonstration or

a model is always more compelling than

anything else and

so me even going through that entire

narrative right is taking everyone else

who's been listening to this on some

Journey it's like if you want to make a

compelling pitch for a business it's

like we pretty much just kind of went

through one um and so that's that's

really what it comes down to you're like

well what do I do with my business it's

like

create your Narrative of why you're even

doing this and if you can explain to

somebody why why they should care about

this problem or more specifically why

you care about this

problem I'll tell you this more

investors will like I might be like I

don't care about kitchen utensils but

this girl certainly does and I'm sure

there's other women who do too and what

everyone wants to see is Obsession and

unfortunately in like some of the world

I know more in the UK than the US now

like that kind of perspective of like

just being all in obsessed with stuff

has almost been like um bastard or like

you know been um

chastised and I but the people who are

obsessed with the ones who changed the

world at least changed their world and

um and I think that so a very close

friend of mine um did all the uh Olympic

teams um nutrition and supplementation

stuff for uh a country overseas and he

said you know the difference between

Champions and everyone else and I was

like what he said everyone always looks

at them and says what do champions have

that I don't have and he said it's they

have it backwards he said it's what do

Champions not have that I have it's what

do they lack and it's an off button they

just don't stop and so in dealing with

the gold medals he's like they just

never stop they just can't stop

everything in their life is geared

towards one goal and so finding that

thing and they approach everything in

their life that way and I think that

that level of obsession of around like

everything that you touch on a daily

basis is required for really getting to

where you want to

go so interesting because as we spoke

there about the reason why the story was

so much more compelling it was back to

the amigdala it was back to emotion

right and it's funny because we we said

a second ago that when someone's

thinking about quitting a job they're

like SE in their amigdala humans run

mostly on their amydala so when we think

about pitching we should really be

aiming at the same part of the brain

which is what you did when you showed me

that you were sleeping as a kid with

your hand stretching across your face I

immediately felt sorry for you felt

sympathy and I immediately believed that

if anyone's going to solve this problem

it is this [ __ ] guy who's been

through that pain I've had two surgeries

both of them didn't really work like I

mean like i' I've got the story my

girlfriend's the same what really two

surgeries but she's coming up to her

third one now we've tried all the nose

drips I saw you wearing one I bought

that one for her yeah um and so there's

a lot of people watching right now and

there's something going on with these

bloody [ __ ] like noses yeah people

shouldn't like yeah we're doing

something I I feel like I may it popular

some of the N Stuff yeah but D making it

cool pain profession passion yeah

ideally you have all three if you have

all three then you're I mean my God

you're set like if you if basically pain

created an obsession and for some reason

you also were doing something like that

in your work like I feel like the

likelihood that you don't succeed is

almost nothing you only need one of

those three you just pick one like if

you just had one pain that you had that

you wanted to overcome or one passion

that you were just inherently interested

cuz sometimes passion has nothing to

like you might just be really into model

cars it's okay well there's a lot of

businesses that you can build around

model cars it's like you can you can

manufacture model cars uh you can have

services around model cars making them

faster because some people race model

cars you can uh be a collector and start

flipping model cars like you can just

make media around how to build them and

then have a media company around like

there's so many different components of

any Obsession or interest that you can

make I I was talking to um on one of the

future episodes of uh mosy tank uh

that's coming out we have a guy who's um

he loves Dungeons and Dragons so he's an

it he's an IT guy and just loves

Dungeons and Dragons and he was like I

just want this to make enough money that

I don't have to do ID

anymore and but it was so pure you know

what I mean and so I was like we're

going to help you do this and so we kind

of walk through the business plan for it

but like is he going to be a billionaire

no but I also don't think that's his

goal and so I think being really clear

on what you want um is important so if

you're like I want to be the richest

person in the world I think it's a

terrible goal but if you want that great

well you have to have a multi-trillion

dollar idea because now because by the

time that occurs there's already multi-

trillion dollar companies now so you got

to be looking at like Deca trillion

dollar opportunity and so believe it or

not basically the bigger the goal the

narrow the scope of the path to get

there if you're like I want to make $10

million like you can literally do that

in almost any business you want to make

$100 million probably still almost any

business you can do it on a long enough

time rise and you can do it a trillion

or decad trillion it's going to be some

sort of tech it's probably going to have

some sort of AI

like and so you get basically the bigger

the goal is the narrower the scope of of

how to get there but the vast majority

of people were like I want to be the

richest man in the world it's just

because they don't know how to like

really think through it and be like all

right well after like a hundred there's

really nothing you can't do except buy

more big things but like in terms of

your actual consumption maybe even 20 is

like you can only eat at restaurants

that go so expensive you can only stay

at the best hotels you can only drive

the nicest cars you can do that with

about 25

million what do you think the cheat code

is then so I've got my idea what do you

think the cheat code is in 2025

to win at the game of attention like

there's got to be some new rules here

because we've got AI we've got new

platforms we've got New

Media you know I'm give you a

hypothetical business idea I'm going to

be a personal trainer okay and I pick

that because everyone can do it and it's

it's a saturated industry if I'm if I'm

a personal trainer in the

2025 how should I be thinking about

building attention mhm so I'll tell you

what I wouldn't do first which is I

don't think I try and out science the

science people uh because like unless

you have some PhD there is a PhD guy

who's already jacked who's making

content and so he's more knowledgeable

and more Jack than you so you're not

going to win there and so I think in the

game of attention it's trying to find

what is unique right and so how do you

how do you quote stand out when

everyone's loud and this is going to

sound trite but your fingerprint is

unique literally from a biological

perspective but so is your life and your

experiences and so there's there's real

Alpha or or benefit to be had above

normal level of effort by leaning into

you and so what makes every person

unique is what makes their content

unique and so trying to be like oh I

want to make content like Alex is

probably not the best way to do it

because you're not going to beat me at

being me but you'll beat me at being you

and so it's basically your flavor of

media so like for me it's like you know

what is you know my brand to to to to

model this it's like well I have

elements of flly philosophy that are in

my brand well do I need that no but

that's like kind of me um I obviously

talk a ton about business marketing and

sales promotion conversion those are all

things that I spend a lot of time

thinking about and so a lot of my

content about that um Fitness is a

component of my life and so there's

light sprinkling of Fitness uh in my

content also I come from a background of

Fitness um with the the with gym launch

and and the companies that I owned

before that and so that would make sense

that and I've my wife Lea and so that

sprinkled in and so like those are

basically the components of My Life um

and so that's what kind of shines

through in my content I consume a ton of

comedy and so sometimes you'll see some

dry humor and dark humor that that

shines through um but that's me now you

have all of those little buckets of you

and not only are those buckets unique

but also the proportions of those

buckets will be different and so maybe

your philosophy is way bigger or maybe

Fitness part is way bigger but I think

what makes the truly unique personal

trainer or Fitness brand is leaning

into people being interested in you for

being you and then being like by the way

I have Fitness stuff if you want to buy

it from me and I think the key part is

the vast majority of products and

services are commone tized there you're

not you're probably not going to be

significantly better than other trainers

just being real you probably aren't but

you will be different than them and we

want to lean on I I want to buy Fitness

from somebody and so I might as well buy

from her or I might as well buy it from

him so you're taking basically this

audience that would buy from anyone but

your brand premium gets them to want to

buy it from you we think about Prime for

example with the drink the drink company

like it's a it's a drink that there's

other products that already exist in the

marketplace that satisfy the same thing

as Prime but if you are agnostic to that

brand and you have brand Affinity with

that that Creator then you're like well

then if I have two things that are

basically equal and I just like this guy

better I'm just going to as long as the

prices are comparable I'll just vote

with my dollars here and so I think that

if you're a personal trainer in 2025

um it's going to be longterm it's going

to be building the content short term

it's going to be Outreach to people that

you know and making a compelling offer

to get people to try to work with you

this overarching point you said there

about being yourself as I was thinking

about it I was thinking gosh do you know

what the thing that all of my favorite

creators and the Really successful

creators have in common is they all have

and I use these words intentionally the

courage to be themselves yeah because I

tell you what when I was starting out as

a content creator and I looked back I

was showing one of my team members the

other day the things I used to post it

was like everything happens for a reason

it was cringe cliche fluff and it took

me several years to almost relax into

just realizing that the game here was to

get to the point where I could be myself

on the internet and actually that was

the most high value because of you know

of what you said it's the uniquest part

of me but the courage to be yourself and

it's it's it is the winning strategy for

2025 and it's I think um it's leaning

into it and the thing is is that

everything in you wants to not do that

I'm not really sure why um but I was

having a conversation with Ila I want to

say two nights ago or three nights ago

um I got a bunch of flack for uh some X

poost that I made and she just looked at

me and she was like never dilute

yourself because I was like maybe I was

like maybe I shouldn't talk about this

stuff like maybe I should just like you

know I'll just lean off and she was like

never dilute yourself like there are so

many more people people who need that

message than people who are hating that

message and she was like and if you're

actually going to make a difference in a

lot of people's lives there's going to

be an equal and opposing force of people

who want to reject that and she's like

this just comes with the territory of

like how big of an impact you want to

have and it was just such a great you

know wife talking to husband you know

conversation um that I guess for me at

the end of the day I'm like as long as

she thinks I'm cool like you know I I'll

keep doing it but um but yeah it's just

uh because the diluted down version all

all of a sudden becomes everyone else's

stuff well you said a second ago you're

not sure why that is but by very

definition of it being unique that that

means that there is no blueprint yeah

there is no person that's come before

you and proven that it works so the

courage of being yourself there's only

one Steven Bartlett so if I'm truly

myself it's never been done before that

means that the risks are unknown the

upside is also unknown yeah but so again

going back to to our our hate of

uncertainty it makes much more sense for

me to try and copy you because I can see

a blueprint there than to run the risk

of being yourself and you are someone

have to say who is running the risk of

being yourself and actually as someone

who's observing you now I know who you

are and I now know who you're not and

it's important for me as someone that

follows your work yeah that actually I

see consistency because I've established

Alex os's values yeah and anything that

diverts from that is actually less

valuable because you say it's more like

everyone else and the things I've had

before but it's also it wouldn't feel

true anymore yeah and um and this is

something that even as a Creator myself

I I have to fall back on is my audience

know who I am now For Better or For

Worse yeah they're not going to learn

anything new yeah you know what's really

interesting is navigating the gray and

so there are contradictory ideals and

this is what I kind of come back to when

I'm when I'm like worried about these

types of things which is like you've got

mercy and you've got

Justice they are somehow opposed and

they are both ideals so how can we

believe in Justice and also believe in

Mercy at the same time and so and I mean

there's you can have variety and

consistency like there there's there

there's tons of examples of this right

um and so we have these diametrically

opposed ideals which means that if you

ever say by the way I'm a little bit

more of a Justice guy like I understand

they had a hard time but at some point

you got to take your own personal

accountability so like no you're not

going to get out of the speeding ticket

you're going to get like that's what's

just on the other hand it's like hey

single mom uh gets pulled over uh for

driving too fast you know what maybe we

let her off today both of those stories

fair but you're going to get attacked by

the other side that has an ideal that

all humans try to strive for and it will

feel terrible because they are right and

so what and so I think that like

understanding that that conflict will

always exist between two apparent ideals

that and this is fun this is

foundationally what politics is right is

that there are two apparent ideals that

bet all of us I would say 99% of people

would say justice is good Mercy is good

variety is good consistency is good

right respecting values is good so is

innovating and doing new things how can

we have both of these contradictory

ideas and at the same time like navigate

that without conflict you can't because

how much becomes the question and so I

think that your thumbprint as a Creator

is that when someone presents a

scenario and says does Alex choose Mercy

or Justice in the scenario that your

audience says gets it right and so I

think about um branding in general as

basically a mosaic that you get to

create and so like each piece of content

is a little tile that has a single color

on it and if you just see one piece of

short content of of Steven Bartlett you

you don't really have an idea who Steven

Marlett is but if you see a thousand of

them all of a sudden you zoom out and

you get to see the whole picture and I

think that that the the colors that are

in those mosaics and the and the

proportion of how many yellows how many

Reds how many greens and where are they

is what ultimately creates the brand and

so um because people want to try and

turn this into okay so I make one post

about family I make one post about

finances I make one post about whatever

right it's like I don't think that's how

it works I think you just be you and

then those proportions will naturally

shake out and also over time you will

change and so it also makes sense that

your brand will change and was I had to

recile which likeit I don't know if I

agree as with some of the things that I

said years ago the thing is in the

digital world like my first podcast was

2017 July of 2017

wow episode 8 is called stop

branding I have changed my views on

branding to be clear yeah but that first

podcast is 90 days from when I lost

everything MH and so the entire the

entire like horm Journey if you want to

call that from zero to billion is

actually documented 90 days from zero

it's all there and so you can see how my

my my views on business have changed and

like what I was thinking about at every

kind of portion of my life and so I had

to just be okay with the idea that like

I will change my mind because I will get

new information because let's take the

alternative stance if I get new

information do I just keep parting what

you did before this is also an issue

with politics right is that like he's

flippy floppy it's like so they're not

allowed to learn

yeah you've been in politics like you

haven't learned anything like no stances

Chang like I feel like we should be able

to do that obviously Brands don't work

that way so it has to be gradual over

time which I think if you were always

you at all times it will be gradual over

time yeah I don't know I think a lot of

the time we end up over focusing on

unreasonable people which is a war we

can never win anyway because you say

that to me I think so I think it was

like I had this uh this guy therapist on

my podcast who I then spoke to after the

podcast and he basically broke it down

to me he was like there's 20% of people

that just absolutely love everything you

will ever do like you could say anything

you change they're [ __ ] they're just

super fans there's 80% of people that

are actually like he said there 60% of

people that are really reasonable they

don't speak yeah they just watch they're

like reasonable and there's 20% of

people with no matter what the [ __ ] you

do they're going to be he is like don't

spend your life focusing on the the 20%

the quiet majority the 60% they don't

tweet they don't they just chill and

then the 20% you know they your

evangelists but you know I find myself

falling into the Trap of the so what's

interesting about the 20% is that like

um I was thinking about this today the

your so no matter who you are you're

going to be disliked period because no

one's liked by everyone so we just have

like let's if we can accept that as a

premise right no one's going to be like

for everyone you might as well be

disliked for being you than being

somebody else amen am at the most basic

level you the being disliked is a fixed

cost and and I think to to to to take

the opposite pers perspective I think it

is far better to be disliked for being

who you are than loved for someone

you're not yeah and one one of the great

entrepreneurs I interviewed on the

podcast said to me when it comes to

marketing and branding and this sort of

attention conversation we're having she

said to me that in order to reach your

80% you have to piss off your 20% or at

least be willing to piss off your 20% it

was Jane warang who's the founder of

demica global Beauty um brand with I

think hundreds of thousands of people

and she sat and said to get to your 80%

you have to be willing to piss off no

actually [ __ ] she said to get to your

20% you have to be willing to piss off

the

80% and from a branding perspective it

makes so much sense because when you

stand for something clearly which you do

you inadvertently stand against a you

have to if you draw a line there's

there's there's a side on either side

and you have to say like I'm on this

side did you see that Nike ad dude I was

just going to say that I was just going

to say that yeah the William defo ad

yeah like what's yours is mine and

what's mine is mine yeah just like it

was actually the first time that I'd

seen something from Nike in a long time

that I was like this is what built this

brand and I think they have they had

lost their way for a while yeah uh with

like the wokeism and all that stuff and

I think it's like Nike means Victory

which means people have to lose yeah and

they were willing to say that for the

first time ever right I posted it on my

LinkedIn and it was 50/50 yeah I'd say

it was actually more like 80% of people

were either neutral or pissed off and 20

yeah and 20% of people were like that is

me I am a Nike person and for me when I

saw that I thought I want to buy some

Nike shorts yeah it was I mean it was

the first time I actually felt like I

had positive brand Affinity towards the

brand in a long time how important in

this game of building and starting is

people

oh very a hiring question I'll tell you

why I asked this question because when I

look at my portfolio early stage first

Founders never seem to understand the

importance of hiring in people yeah and

I bang my head against the wall trying

to convince them that actually the game

they're playing is in the company group

of people yeah so I would I'll start

with one thing and then I'll answer the

question so I was talking to um a mentor

of mine and he said when I was in my 20s

it was all about the destination he said

when I got to my 30s I realized it was

all about the journey he said when I was

in my 40s I realized it was about the

company and I was like I can't wait till

you're in your

50s the next one right but I thought

that was such a great like such a

profound shift in terms of how he

thought about his business success cuz

he was like I don't need to be a you

know a Deca billionaire he's like I'm

I'm cool where I'm at um and now I just

want to do it with people that I like

and so to the question about um people

overall I believe that the potential of

an organization is directly correlated

with the aggregate intellectual

horsepower of everyone contained within

it and so if you are the smartest person

in the business then and you can do

every everyone's job better than

everyone in your company then it means

that the limit of the business is purely

based on one person's horsepower and one

person's life

experiences and that will be the cap and

basically it doesn't matter how smart

you are you can't live a 100 lifetimes

like you can learn quickly sure there's

some people who can learn faster than

others but you're not going to be able

to live a thousand lifetimes and

so as a business grows more expertise is

required and I think the easiest liit

test for this is if you look at the

richest people in the World almost none

of them Own 100% of their business so

number one most of them don't even own

50 like most of them are small

percentages Jensen WIS at 4% for NVIDIA

basos is at seven or 9% for for Amazon

uh I think elon's at 20 for Tesla like

small percentages and it's because it

takes a lot of horses to take a chariot

to the Moon right and so basically as

you put in more intellectual horsepower

the potential peak of the business goes

so much so much higher so much faster

Keith rabois from um he's one of the

original PayPal Mafia guys has a really

good analogy for this and he talks about

it in terms of barrels and ammunition

and he says so as soon as you get some

product Market fit the business starts

to grow and you say okay we need to

start shipping things faster and this

works the same with a Services business

a physical products business software

business the concept's the same and said

so what happens is you then hire a lot

of people and you assume that your

throughput is going to increase

proportionally so we have 10 people we

hire 50 we should 5xr output and then

you quickly realize that that is not the

case and so what happens is uh there are

people who are rate limiters for or or

and organization and those are the

barrels so think about like a civil war

Barrel you know Old Cannon and you've

got these cannonballs next to it he said

most people are ammunition and so you

bring more ammunition but you're still

going to be limited by the one barrel

capacity of how how many shots can get

taken by the barrel and so you need to

find more barrels so you have to go from

one barrel to two barrels two barrels to

three barrels and that becomes an

increase in capacity or throughput for

the organization and there are very few

of those in a different um I can't

remember the law but it's some

organizational uh law but uh the square

root of the number of people in a

company generate 50% of the work so you

have 100 people in an organization 10

people are responsible for 50% of the

value that's created facts right anybody

who's been in like you're like of like

preach and so the thing is is I think

the real game of Entrepreneurship is

that your standards rise over time and

it's unfortunate because we we hear

things that other entrepreneurs tell us

it's all about the people stupid and

then you're like sure but look at my and

it's like no you're not hearing it and I

don't know there are some I think

Williamson talks about this how there's

like some lessons that for some reason

it's like we have to learn for ourselves

I still believe that that it's like we

can operationalize this at a lower level

so that we don't have to learn it for

ourselves but like I'm convinced I

haven't figured it out yet but um so

every entrepreneur can can can can

resonate with this which is every

business that I've started I've gotten

to the success of the business Prior Way

faster and I kind of liken it to a video

game where it's like you beat level one

and then you know you get to level two

and it's like you spend months trying to

beat this boss and you finally figure

how to beat the boss and it's like great

and you spend another three months

getting beating Boss 3 and let's say you

start the game over with a new character

it's like you just zoom through level

one two and three and then you get to

level four and you're like shoot now I

got to spend time it's like virgin land

like I don't know how to beat this yet

and so I think that that happens for

archetype finding for skill and talent

within an organization and so say that

again so if you have functions across an

organization there are people who are

going to drive results within that

function and the first time you hire a

salesperson for example you don't know

what you're looking for and so you just

hire a human who says they can sell and

maybe they can maybe they can't and then

you cycle you try to train them that

doesn't work does work whatever and then

finally you let's say you cycle through

three sales guys and finally you find a

killer and then you have this

recognition you're like okay that's what

I'm looking for and then all of a sudden

you try and approximate that person or

that archetype as as much as you can and

so when you start your second company

you're like oh I can quickly staff up

sales because I know what I'm looking

for but then you're like shoot I've

never really nailed sales manager yet

and so then you cycle through you start

you start whacking away at the boss and

then you have to end up firing the boss

at level because you're like oh God this

didn't work and then six months are gone

because you had to find them recruit

them hire them train them and then find

out they sucked and then start over

again and maybe it takes 18 months to

really find the right sales manager and

then you're like okay I know what that

looks like but I still don't have a

director of marketing what does that

look like and so it's basically

developing this pattern recognition

across all functions of the business so

you that you know what exceptional looks

like and then over time what happens is

as a business grows your ability to

attract Talent increases and so then

your standards also grow and then you

find out that there's even more Nuance

to this which is that there's a director

of sales at a $1 to10 million level

which is a different looking person

from10 to100 million level and it

continues to go all the way up and so

it's basically building this repertoire

of identifying patterns and what if you

talk to I would say more experienced

entrepreneurs now they don't talk about

building businesses it's like assembling

them you just assemble the pieces and

you just know that this is how it's all

going to flow together and that

fundamentally is basically what I try

and decode within the content that I

have so that it's like here's a pattern

for how you recognize this here's a

pattern for how you recog ize this so

that you can just move faster through

the levels um to get to where you want

to go and so to loop back to the

original question which is how important

are people in an organization people are

the organization and so if you ever want

to build Enterprise Value it's building

the collective consciousness of the

organization the skills and how they

collaborate together towards a specific

outcome and so knowing how to staff that

up is the

job I think the reason why first-time

Founders feel like they have to learn

this lesson themselves is because

everything you've just said is an

unknown unknown like they don't even

know that they don't know it so they

stumbl they hire the sales guy because

they were their friend from high school

and then [ __ ] and then they go

through the pain and I say this because

I'm so unbelievably passionate about it

I went through the same BS I hired my

friend who worked at Prada to be art

account I hired a guy I met at a rap

battle to be my marketing director who

who was literally playing video games

for a living at 30 years old um and I

went through this whole thing and then

at maybe three four years into my first

business I accidentally hired someone

great like through no intention of

myself accidentally I saw the net impact

they had and I thought oh my God over

the coming years I learned that the game

the fundamental game here is as you said

assembling the best group of

people how if I'm a firsttime Founder

can I put a system in place to to make

sure that even though I don't know what

a good salesperson looks like yeah even

though I don't know what an ex good

person looks like I still attract them

to my company

the simplest way of doing it so the

simplest way of attracting somebody to

your business when you don't know how to

do the job or know who to look for is to

unfortunately do the job yourself and

then once you can break down the job we

follow 3DS which is um document

demonstrate duplicate that's how we

train anybody so first you have to

document everything that you do to

successfully do the job and that's

step-by step into a checklist then you

demonstrate so you do do this checklist

in front of the person that you're

trying to bring on then they duplicate

they do the checklist in front of you

what's interesting about that three-step

process is that you'll often find when

you try to demonstrate following the

checklist you don't follow your

checklist and so then you have to adjust

the checklist until you actually follow

the checklist and then when you can

consistently follow that checklist and

get the output then you can have them do

that checklist and so I think this is

why bootstrap Founders uh I think often

times will find they they tend to know

more about more things because they had

to learn them in order to teach them now

what's really interesting about what you

said about accidentally finding that

that star at 3 or four years in is that

I think that happens to almost everyone

well hopefully it the people who end up

making it it happens to almost everyone

um because then you realize oh my God

like if I had four of these people like

we could change the world right say

something as well the other Epiphany

Revelation I had was the star hired

Stars yeah right and so I think of her

name's casy leison of the 10 people she

then hired nine of them became the best

people in my company and also I'm not

going to say his name but someone else

in my business a c player yeah of the 10

people he hired yeah he and everyone he

hired was F so one of the it's so as you

go up in the organization with hires the

risk and reward goes up and so that's

something that a lot of people don't

like talking about but I will um which

is if you hire somebody and let's say

that they're not a cultural fit maybe

they have the skills uh or they are a

cultural fit and they don't have the

skill fit and they're a leader

what you find often and it sucks is that

everyone it's almost like it's like a

tree that has an entirely rotten Branch

it's like you end up having to scoop out

three4 of what was underneath because

you realize that they were ineffective

or they just were against the actual

mission of the business and it's it's

harrowing and it's horrible but I try to

give this analogy um to my team because

we've had to do it in every business we

like it happens it's just part of

business

is if somebody goes to the bar and

you're at the club and somebody racks up

you know just ordering shots for

everybody shots shot shot shot shot

shots and then that guy dips that guy

leaves we all have to pay the bill in

the moment when we pay the bill when we

scoop out the Deadwood when we scoop out

the rot from the organization it feels

horrible but that pain isn't because the

scooping out the rot is bad it's because

we planted it on bad ground or because

that guy ordered all these shop but

couldn't afford it and I have a

different analogy because I really want

to drive this home because I think it's

important is that in the in the

relationship world if one spouse tells

the other spouse hey I cheated on you I

had an affair that moment is incredibly

painful for both parties and so what it

makes you think is oh this was wrong to

tell the truth but it's not wrong to

tell the truth what's wrong was cheating

when you tell the truth is when you make

it right and so the pain that you often

have to to encounter in organization

feels wrong but is right because that

was you're you're writing a wrong and

that's where the pain occurs and that's

why so many businesses stay stuck is

because they have this affair they have

this person and they're unwilling to

have that hard conversation or multiple

in order to make it right and they stay

stuck for

years this is

another quality of really successful

Founders that I've noticed which is what

you just said is the ability to have the

hard conversation sooner and in my first

um in my Folia where there's firsttime

Founders they're coming to me and in our

like uh monthly meeting saying God

there's this guy who's running the Ecom

Division and he's so bad and I'm having

to do the job for him what do I do about

it Steve what do you

think but then they come back to me two

weeks later and they're like he's still

there yeah right A year later and you're

like it's still John you know you're

like what are we talking about here I

remember asking him when at such meeting

uh does JN know that you're unhappy with

him oh yeah

no so there this quiet dis

faction which I think is a virus right

right and what what no one wants to

discuss is the fact that everyone else

knows John sucks amen and that that

becomes the minimum standard for what is

acceptable for excellence in the

organization and so I think like so if

brand is what your reputation is

externally I think culture is kind of

what reputation is internally and so I

Define culture operationalized because I

think culture is a very fluffy word what

does that mean right it's the rules that

govern reinforcement within organization

what do we reward what do we punish and

so the thing is is that there's

realistically there's like people have

values because they're bundled terms

that lad up many behaviors if I said

Rolls-Royce probably would have some

value that's quality over speed probably

right and so they would have that but

somebody would have to say like what

does that mean right well we hope that

we use this as a decision-making filter

for how it affects behaviors on every

situation so that when you're in the

should I go fast or should I make it

right you make it right and there are

other organizations kind of like the

speed uh justice and mercy speed and

quality both of them are important and

sometimes they sit diametrically opposed

and so it's like we have to say where do

we sit in the gray so that we can

duplicate decision-making across the

organization so that we can maintain the

culture and so culture uh you know lless

this is a lot but culture I think this

is a drer quote actually U culture

Trump's strategy like twice week and

every day on Sunday if you have a

mediocre strategy but an unbelievable

culture you will crush somebody who has

a great strategy and a terrible culture

because culture Lads up to Performance

and execution and almost every business

is limited by execution not strategy

most business strategies isn't that

complicated like let's do a really good

job so good that people tell their

friends about us and as long as we have

enough gross margin we'll make money

it's not that hard right it's just that

the doing it is the hard part and so so

when we have these uh they are the

spoken and unspoken roles mostly

unspoken if someone shows up 3 minutes

late to a meeting and there's 10 people

in the meeting and it's supposed to be a

marketing meeting and I'm there if I

don't say anything I have now said we

have an unspoken rule that if someone

shows up 3 minutes slate to a meeting

it's okay I've I've reinforced that rule

now if I I've reinforce it by not

punishing the behavior or at least

calling it out um on the flip side if

someone comes in and I berate them

that's also a way of changing Behavior

maybe not the right way to do it um but

I could then like what do you do in that

situation someone shows up 3 minutes

late um first off you would probably

sideline with that person be like hey

I don't know if you realized that you

were 3 minutes late what happened and

they're like I was on a client call um

it went late I'm really sorry or I was

on a sales call for me in my

organization clients in sales like will

take priority so if you have a meeting

and you're on a sale and you're about to

close it close the sale right but if you

were just doing nothing and we have this

meeting then this is the priority and so

the next time we hop on I'll be like hey

guys I just want to address something

John was late he was late because of

aale call or when I dm' him right as he

got on late I would say hey make sure

you say that and be like hey guys sorry

I was late I was on a sales call and

then I would say that's fine you're good

to go always go make money yeah and then

I'm reinforcing the right thing yeah

right and so I think we're very big on

rapid feedback um in the moment because

that's how you train Behavior so if you

look

at if so there's tons of studies on this

but basically if you want to train a dog

right um and you want it to sit if you

have it sit and then immediately give a

biscuit it learns really quickly if you

have it sit and then wait 10 seconds

before you give a biscuit it takes like

three times as many repetitions for it

to learn that the that the sitting gets

the biscuit if you wait more than a

minute it never learns really it just

you can see the learning curve the

amount of repetitions just skyrockets

until eventually there is no amount but

here's where it gets crazy that biscuit

is still reinforcing something just not

sitting it's reinforcing the thing that

just came before it so if we want people

to do something we have to change in the

moment and so when we train and I think

that we're we're a training organization

we're very good at training whatever

skills um is engineering ways to give

many feedback loops in a short period of

time around uh specific skills so I use

sales because it's one that everyone

understands if you're training a script

with someone at the if you if you let

someone read through a script and then

at the end you say Hey you know here

here's the things you could have done

better blah this is how 95% of people

train it's also doesn't work mhm we set

the premise with you're going to read

through the script and in the first 30

minutes we might get through a third of

it and I'm going to probably stop you

like 30 times and if that happens it

means we're doing it right so we set the

premise that I'm going to interrupt you

a bunch of times and as soon as you say

the first line I'm going be like stop

say it again say it like this go again

and then they're like okay and they say

it and I'm like awesome job do it again

awesome job do it again so I reinforce