Kev Kev Tim, good to see you, man. Good

to see you. Let's figure out which one

there we go. Cheers. Cheers. All right.

>> You know, I know the cool kids are down

on alcohol, but every once in a while, I

think there's a place for it.

>> There's a time and place.

>> And this is the time.

>> I think this is the time and the place.

And I think paying a tax for it the next

day is a feature, not a bug.

>> Are you getting taxed harder on?

>> Of course. Yeah. Is it getting worse?

>> Every old bastard.

>> Yeah, I know.

>> That's genderneutral. gets taxed as you

can process ethanol less and less well

over time. But I'm cool with it. I don't

have that much, but today has been

hectic.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, take a little hard day. Take a

little edge off.

>> And people may not like the sound of

that. It's a little antiquated maybe for

all the cool ketamine kids. No offense,

>> but don't put that [ __ ] on me. I try it

one time and I get freaking

bastard. You [ __ ] a goat once and then

they call me the goat [ __ ]

>> Can't get around it.

>> I still stand by that experience

>> when you're doing it in a supervised

setting by a medical professional.

>> Here we go.

>> No, I'm telling you it's You've done it.

>> Of course I have.

>> Okay, so there we go.

>> Well, yeah, because I wanted to be able

to speak.

>> I saw you at a party one time and you

were just like,

>> that's not true. That's not true.

>> Still have all my nostrils intact. No

ketamine cramps, you know. I don't even

know what that is. Is that a thing?

>> That's when you use too much.

>> Okay.

>> Way, way, way, way too.

>> Oh, yeah. It hurts bad on the bladder,

right?

>> Yeah. Your bladder can get a little

grumpy or a lot grumpy as the case might

be.

>> Yeah. I'm good.

>> You know, I'm good. Kevin, random show

number 3,479.

>> Yeah. You know what's crazy, dude, is I

looked up a random show the other day

and you had a bit of hair like way back

in the day. way back.

>> We were babies.

>> I know.

>> So much [ __ ] has happened.

>> I know.

>> The only constant I think is like maybe

like Toaster who's barely alive.

>> Toaster. I know. Seriously,

>> Toaster was a tiny tiny little pup.

>> Yeah.

>> Who was chewing through the XLR cables.

>> Oh my god.

>> On your couch in San Francisco way way

way back in the day.

>> Toer's 15.

>> And I'll tell a quick little story. A

week ago, I get this call and Daria

calls me and she's like, "You got to get

over the house. Toaster is shaking

violently and he's 15. He's like running

into walls and [ __ ] you know? He's

getting up there and he's legs are

collapsing so he can't stand up and he

couldn't stand up and he's shaking

violently and I'm like just flying over

there."

>> Mhm.

>> I throw him in my car. He's on my lap

driving, you know, to get to this

emergency vet as fast as possible. And

he just sprays [ __ ] all over me. Like

literally I I heard it like I could felt

his stomach be like

and then like 10 seconds later

>> I'm not even talking like oh like oh he

had a little [ __ ] like no no no no like

shotgun against the car door like the

whole thing. And it's all down my pants.

>> We're toasty.

>> I know. But you know what's funny dude?

It's like I rushed him in and long story

short he's okay now.

>> What was it? He had gone into the vet

the day prior and he was so nervous that

he stood for he had to be there for like

a multi-our blood draw

>> because he was having some other issues

and he stood for like 6 hours straight.

>> That's too long for he can only stand

for like 10 minutes like max.

>> And so he had just overtaxed himself and

got like there's a syndrome that they

can get when they're like super stressed

out and all. So

>> little Molly's had it or big Molly.

She's on the floor right here.

>> She's sleeping. Ollie's 12. It's crazy.

>> But long story short, he's okay. But I

thought to myself, it's so weird because

when I walked in there and there was

like [ __ ] and like I'm literally I'm in

tears cuz I think I'm about to have to

put down my dog, you know?

>> Of course.

>> And I just thought it's okay. I'll do

this any day for this dude. When you

care about your animals that much, none

of that matters.

>> Yeah.

>> Like you would do anything for them. And

it's just like just that love. It's so

crazy how much you love these little

beasts. Like it's insane, dude. It's

like a kid. It's like a kid.

>> Yeah. It's

wild to think about if you really sit

down and think about it. Some of these

super common daily

experiences like communing with a dog or

pointing and having a dog recognize that

you're pointing for instance.

>> That's really rare in the animal

kingdom. That recognition of pointing as

just one example. But how unusual it is

that we have this and yes we have cats.

I grew up with four cats and two dogs. I

get it. But in particular dogs as like

companions,

co-hunters, etc. The fact that we've

evolved co-evolved in a sense

>> and sort of co-domemesticated.

>> Yeah.

>> Also, right, it's not necessarily one

way. Read the botney of desire by

Michael Pollen for more on that

>> is incredible.

>> Yeah. Right. The fact that we have like

we're totally calm having this 60 plus

pound beast with giant fangs on the

floor is nuts.

>> Yeah. I mean, I'm sure you've seen that

those Instagram posts where it's like

where I was and where I am now today and

like they show like the wild like wolf

like out in the countryside like eating

a rabbit and then they show like a

poodle in a tutu outfit and [ __ ] like

all like dme I'm going to go grab some

scraps from those weird monkeys. What's

the worst that could happen? And then

it's like 10,000 years later, right?

with a bonnet on.

>> What else is going on, Kevin? I got a

couple things on my list.

>> There's a lot to talk about.

>> There's a lot to talk about.

>> First, I'll say that lately life has

been lifing me. It's been doing all the

things. We lost a dear colleague Malik.

>> Oh man, there started

>> very notorious like just amazing early

tech just creative author

thinker.

>> Very sweet guy.

>> The nicest. Nice.

>> And we lost him within the last week.

>> Yeah, he passed away. So, that was

tough. That was

>> really tough. I found out when I was at

a a retreat. I went to a 5-day silent

meditation retreat, which is great, but

bummer to hear that. But, I mean, this

is the thing that I realized the other

day. I was thinking about, you know,

Toaster and M and other stuff I have

going on and my mom getting older and

following and all these things. And in

some sense, it's unavoidable, number

one, and number two, I kind of wouldn't

have it any other way. It's what makes

life interesting. Like when M passed.

>> You mean death?

>> Well, just everything the chaos of it

all.

>> Yeah.

>> If you can just take a step back and be

like, well, or I could just be sitting

there living a really boring life and

nothing could be happening. Like when

passed, what I felt was a severe sense

of loss and sorrow and sadness. But I

realized that that gap is just love at

the end of the day because I wouldn't

have it unless I loved this man so much.

Like I I cared for this person so much.

How lucky am I to have crossed paths

with this person to get to know them?

>> And you were tied in through True

Ventures obviously and prior to that.

>> Yeah. But like anyone in general that

you lose that you love, you know? I

mean, when I lost my dad, like that is

just a gaping hole of love manifested

through sorrow and sadness.

>> Yeah.

>> And once you realize that, it's like,

wow, I had this great father that did

all these amazing things with me.

>> And you can kind of convert that or just

be okay with it. Not that you need to

change that feeling,

>> right? Recognize that it's a consequence

of the love.

>> It's a consequence of the love, the deep

love.

>> Yeah. You know, I heard about his

passing and I want to give credit where

credit is due for a few things. Matt

Mullenweg,

>> my mutual friend. He was incredibly

close to

>> and I'm really grateful to Matt for a

few things. One, I mean, many things. I

could give a long list, but there are a

few. One is he organized a trip to

Antarctica. I've never been to

Antarctica or hadn't. And on that trip

were just a handful of people including

M. So, I got to spend quality time.

timing. Trust me, when you're in

Antarctica, you are indoors most of the

time. What that means is you're either

trying to sleep in your tent, but it's

going to be during the summer, so it's

like a spotlight in your face 24 hours a

day,

>> or you're in one of these other

structures where you're probably like

having wine and junk food, let's be

honest. And there's a lot of talking, so

we got to hang out. And M was also an

avid photographer. And so, we got to

like go to this nearby empire penguin

colony, which was a once in a-lifetime

experience. and you just sit and talk

and

if there were going to be any small

talk, which there wasn't going to be

with M or me really for that matter, it

all falls away after the first half day,

right?

>> And then everybody's kind of like

psychologically naked, right? So, I

really want to thank Matt for that

opportunity to bond with him. And I'd

spent a lot of time with him, but it was

always in these little bits and pieces.

Yeah. You know, not for several days

straight where you're basically like

locked in together.

>> Yeah.

And separately, Matt introduced me to

this short blog post by someone who

typically writes very long blog posts,

Tim Urban, called The Tail End. I don't

know if I ever sent this to you.

>> People should know by way.

>> Yeah, fantastic blog. And the tail end

makes the point among many others that

by the time you I think it's graduate

from high school, let's assume you're

headed off to college away from your

parents, you've spent something like 90

95%

of the total hours you will ever spend

with your parents by the time you

graduate from high school.

>> And when you start to visualize that,

and Tim Urban is really good at laying

it out visually,

>> it can provoke some really profound

changes for me. Yeah. I mean, just

reading that short blog post sent to me

by Matt ended up leading to taking my

family on these family trips as like

awkward and uncomfortable that was at

points cuz my family doesn't really

emote much.

>> Mhm.

>> And so you stick us together in the way

that I was together with and it's it can

be super uncomfortable

>> but making the effort right at least

feeling like look

>> this runway is not infinite.

>> Yeah. And it's like, let me just make

the effort. And I'm glad I did because

we got to a point where it's like with

my dad's mobility, he's really

compromised. He needs a wheelchair now

for a lot.

>> I just saw him a few days ago and it was

great to see him, dude. It was so great

to see him. He's so kind. He's like,

Kevin, like so happy and you know, he

has a little cane and it was just like

so sweet to see him, man. I hadn't seen

him for like years. It had been like

seven years or something like that.

>> Something like that. And I'm glad I took

those trips because before you know it,

you can't do it anymore. And it makes me

think of, you mentioned meditation. This

really good short, I'll call it a

meditation for simplicity, but

>> it's like an audiobook chapter by Sam

Harris called The Last Time. I think

it's called The Last Time. And he

reflects on these various experiences

that at the time you don't recognize are

the last time for something, right? So

he he went skiing. He went skiing. He

went skiing. And there was a time when

he stopped, but he didn't realize that

that was going to be the last time,

>> right?

>> And you just [ __ ] don't know. Do you

ever try and like I think about this

dude and then I try and do it one more

time.

>> Yeah, that's right. I always end up

injured, dude. I went to the bouncy

house with my kids and like I'm 49, you

know, and I was like, I'm going to

[ __ ] do a flip right now. And like

literally people were like, "Don't do

it. Don't like like call me off, you Oh,

and I did it and I stuck it and it felt

good.

>> You're good on a trampoline.

>> Might be my last time.

>> It might be your last time. You are good

on a trampoline. This is so weird, man.

Dude, I kid you not. I had a dream last

night of the two of us going to House of

Air at Chrissy Field in San Francisco

and you were doing like front flips off

your knees. You dropped your hat and

then you like kicked the trampoline to

bounce it back up to your head and I was

like, "What?"

>> Wait, wait, wait, wait. So, you know, I

sent you that video of me dropping my

hat and kicking it back.

>> You can do it live, too. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. So, it was just made it way in the

dream

>> and I was just like, "What?" I literally

had that in my dreams last night. That's

wild.

>> And I had the assless chaps on like I

normally do when you're

>> Yeah, you had the ass traps on which

like depending on your angle can be kind

of awkward.

>> Yeah, exactly. Cuz you like doing the

straddle flip.

>> So, it's a little awkward.

>> I've heard about these dreams before. I

know.

>> I always text them to Kevin. I'm like, I

was thinking of you last night.

>> The chaps were back.

>> So, what do you got, man? I mean, people

should check out My hands are too

sweaty, so I'm thinking about

>> death.

>> Yeah. In the chat.

>> Wow, that's the perfect audio.

>> The uh Well, the retreat was fantastic.

I spent 5 days going really deep on my

[ __ ] doing a lot of work on it.

>> Moo,

>> which you can listen to Henry Shikman on

your podcast if people are interested

about what Zen is all about, like real

true traditional Zen with coons. And you

probably heard that sound of one hand

clapping. That actually is a one of 500

plus cohons. Yeah, it was fantastic. I

had a couple little micro insights,

which was good. And I was kind of rushed

through to the Zen master to explain

them and try and get some clarity on

them, which is great.

>> How do you know that you're having a

micro insight? So, it's not like my

balls are shaving in this position. It's

something else.

>> Yes. This

but close. No, I essentially was sitting

and you know Henry, one of the Zen

masters who you've had on the show, uh

dear friend of ours was there and then

his Roshi from Japan was there. So it's

very special and then comes every two

years.

>> What's his name? Yamada

Roshi. Yeah. So basically I was kind of

pulled Henry aside. You're not supposed

to. He's not talking. But I was like

he's like you know how's it going? Like

this and that. And I was like well I had

this thing happen. What do you think

about this? And he's like, "You got to

come with me right now."

>> Well, not come with me, but he like got

me right in front cuz there's a line to

see the Roshi to go have your private

interview where you go and like check

your practice with them. Yeah.

>> So, it's behind closed doors. You go in,

you sit down with the Roshi. You

typically get between two and 10 minutes

to sit down and talk about your progress

on your practice. And you do that like,

you know, once every day and a half when

you're out there.

>> Mhm.

>> That's cool.

>> Enough to where Henry was like, "You

should go talk to him right away.

>> Skip the line." TSA preaching. go

through the free check and it was

beautiful and it was a it was a micro

little thing.

>> I can share it if you're curious.

>> Yeah, of course I'm curious.

>> Yeah. So, I'm looking forward to hearing

myself talk. That's why I'm here talk to

you.

>> So, I'm sitting here staring against the

wall because in Zen you stare against

the wall with your eyes open and you're

staring about 3/4 down kind of just

glancing out. I'm working on my co and

for people that don't know how you do

that is essentially on the outreath you

just slowly internally

say your co. It's almost like a mantra

in some sense, but a little bit more

involved.

>> Yeah. It's like a question you're kind

of asking yourself slowly that doesn't

make sense and eventually it pops. But

what happened is I had about two seconds

of this sense that

there was and this is going to be hard

to explain because it's not from the

world of thought which is already hard

to explain.

>> It's like a sneeze in the perennium. No.

>> No.

>> All right.

>> Close. I had a sense of nothing lacking.

>> That sounds nice.

>> Nothing needed to be added and nothing

even possibly could be added and nothing

possibly could be taken away because

everything

at that moment was full in the way that

it should be.

>> But what was interesting about it is

it wasn't an emotion. It was just like a

steady state of being. So it wasn't

like, "Oh, I feel free right now." No,

none of that. It was just like, "Oh,

this everything is here

perfectly present."

And it was just

wild. Wild in what sense? In the felt

sense of that experience or

>> wild in the sense that wild in the I

just drank too much tequila after not

having much tequila since. I haven't had

any tequila, but in the sense that we

often times so often like go inside in

in our into our brain to try and find

something, figure something out, an

emotional state that's either bothering

you or feels good or feels bad or

something else. And then just to know

that everything, and I don't mean like

objects, everything was one

unit of nothing lacking.

>> Mhm. And it was just a micro sense of

kind of like, oh, there's actually

nothing to do because everything's

already here.

>> Yeah.

>> And they talk about this in Zen a bit

where you already have everything that

you need.

>> So it's just they call the removal of

the veil. Mhm.

>> So it's like it's an expansive awareness

that you get from

a deep continued practice over years and

decades.

>> Mhm.

>> But it was already there all along.

>> Can I give a shameless plug?

>> Yeah, let's hear it.

>> All right. So you and I are both

involved with the way which is this

guided single path meditation app which

is guided by Henry Shukman who you

mentioned

>> and it's the

sort of progressive development of

skills on a single path which I really

like as opposed to just what is the

meditation dour with no coherence

>> and a few of my favorite meditations I

have a lot of different sessions

bookmarked and I've done hundreds and

hundreds and hundreds. And by the way,

for people who are like, "Ah, these guys

are just shilling their bags."

>> I do think it can be a good business,

but this is sort of a ideologically

philosophical

investment

>> of time and money, right?

>> It's like the reason we invested in the

dog aging study with rapomy. Like

University of Washington, it's like this

needs to exist.

>> These exist,

>> it's good for the world. Let's try it.

Yeah. So, sure, we've got some chips on

the table, but this is this is mostly

because we believe in it.

>> And a few of my favorites, if people

ever try it,

Whole Earth is Medicine is one. Another

one is This Too is me, which makes me

think about what you're saying.

>> So, this too is me

>> is a meditation led by Henry, which this

is going to sound maybe esoteric, but

it's not. When you recognize that

all of the things you experience are

mediated by your mind,

>> right? And therefore, like when you hear

something, when you feel something, when

you're interrupted by something,

etc., etc., anything you can possibly

imagine experiencing is also you because

ultimately

it is entirely mediated by your mind.

Let's just use that instead of brain.

And it's incredibly, at least for me,

and I'm not comparing it to your

experience because I think it's probably

characteristically different, is

incredibly relaxing to let go even just

for a moment because my brain is like

the ultimate

like

>> dog chasing a squirrel kind of brain,

right? Like I'm always looking for

something to fix, something to improve,

what I need to do, what is happening

next week. And meditation is

>> you are the squirrel.

>> I am the squirrel. It right. It can be

excruciatingly painful, right? Like

meditation can be super hard.

>> That's a very common thing. People are

like, I can't do this.

>> But when Henry gives you permission to

include all of that as you I know this

might sound very bizarre. It allows you

to kind of drop this burden that you

didn't realize you were carrying. So, in

any case, you don't have to do a

week-long meditation retreat if you're

just doing 10 minutes twice a day. And I

do think there's some alchemy to twice a

day. I don't know why exactly. I have

some theories around Vegas nerve

stimulation and stuff, but you get a lot

out of it.

>> So, in any case, I didn't mean to

interrupt your story. No, I think

there's two things that I love that

Henry says quite often when he starts

some of these meditations, which is take

everything that you came in the door

with, like all the thoughts, worries,

emotions, things, and leave it at the

door just for now.

>> You can come back to it in 20 minutes,

>> but just for now. The permission to set

those things down for yourself just for

now

>> is such a beautiful thing. And then like

the little instructions where he's like,

"Drop your jaw an eighth of an inch."

Yeah.

>> And I'm like, "Whoa, I didn't even

realize I was Can I tell you something

crazy about that?"

>> Yeah.

>> All right. So, I got fitted for a

mandibular device, which is a fancy way

of saying a double-decker mouthpiece.

>> Yeah.

>> That is an easier approach to resolving

sleep apnnea or snoring. So, I don't

snore a ton, but every once in a while I

do. Drives my lady insane,

understandably. And if you take the jaw

and drop it down an eighth of an inch

and forward an eighth of an inch, you

open your airway.

>> Mhm.

>> And I was thinking about that because

Henry will often say, as you're alluding

to, like drop your jaw

>> and leave it forward as if it's resting

on a small pillow ever so slightly, and

it increases your air flow.

>> Mhm. I mean, these ancients hit on some

stuff by trial and error

>> that really just works. It's like, yeah,

if you want to have better respiration

while you're meditating

>> and better alignment and blah blah blah

blah blah,

just do what Henry's describing. And I

will say his doulet British tones.

>> Yeah.

>> If you just want a relaxing voice,

>> Yeah. that will help you with chilling

the [ __ ] out when your monkey mind is

ricocheting inside your skull. Like, try

Henry out. Like, you can find free stuff

everywhere. I've had him on the podcast

a bunch as well as meditation Mondays

for a while, which were these very short

episodes of guided meditations. In any

case,

>> yeah, it's great.

>> I've been so It's the right word. I mean

overjoyed is this sounds too dramatic

but I'll just say happy for you to watch

your path with meditation cuz it seems

like you get so much nourishment and

grounding from it and no offense like

you're kind of a spaz you're kind of

>> you're kind of spazz like you get

excited about [ __ ] and then you drop

stuff that is very well exemplified and

like Tim you got to buy this stock and

then you never tell me when you sell and

I'm like oh [ __ ] I'm [ __ ] Oh, but you

want to talk about hold cuz you winner.

>> Yeah,

>> you should have held. It's fine.

>> No, but anyway, literally Tim gives me

this tip and I'm like, "All right, I'm

in." And then like a day and a half

later, I'm down like I know that's why

you got to wait. But the point of the

story is I thought this meditation thing

just like every nine months you're like

I'm moving to Android. I'm like, "Let me

start the timer for two weeks before you

come back to iPhone.

I'm like, "Yeah, this meditation thing."

Yeah, sure. We'll see. I give it two

weeks. And you've stuck with it.

>> Come up on five years now.

>> Yeah. It's really made me

happy as your friend to see something

that gives you that consistency.

>> That's it. There's nothing more to add.

I've been really, what's the right word?

Not sure of the right way to put it.

I've just been very reassured.

>> Yeah. by you having that constant in

your life.

>> One of the things I'm curious about,

speaking of constants and kind of like

how things changed since we've known

each other and you had hair and all that

other [ __ ] My hair wasn't great.

>> Still got plenty of hair. It's not on my

head. Yeah,

>> exactly. The braids down there. Um the

the question I'm I'm I'm curious about

is I've been thinking a lot lately as I

kind of march towards 50. What are the

things that I've always said that I want

to do that I'm just like, you know, I've

got a thousand bookmarks on Instagram

like all these Japanese woodworking

things and like

>> it's always woodworking little always

woodworking.

>> Well, I even have, you know, this is how

bad of my speaking the monkey mind and

bouncing around. I literally have for

some reason the algorithm is now giving

me like those [ __ ] boats inside

of bottles. People making the boats in

the bottles and I'm like am I going to

be a boat in the bottle guy? Like I

don't know. Maybe. Like I realize now I

think these next couple decades

>> I want to stop bullshitting myself and

stop saying like hey one day

>> one day I'll get in Japanese

woodworking. One day I'll do this and

really start doing some things.

>> Yeah.

>> You've been really good cuz you archery

hunting like the stuff that you've

gotten into you've gone deep on in the

last few years.

>> Yeah. Super deep. Are there any things

that are on your kind of bucket list of

things where you say one day, you know,

you're busy with your podcast and all

the [ __ ] you got going podcast, shoot me

in the head. It's it's fine and it's fun

most of the time, but it's so crowded

and it's like, man, if if 20 other

people are trying to do the same job, I

don't want to do this job.

>> Yeah. Right.

>> It is wild how many new podcasters there

are out there that they're also

optimizing every little freaking thing.

all the thumbnails like what you need to

know before your crypto crashes next

week now and I'm like ah god

>> I just don't want to play that game. And

>> for me I would say the most top of mind

is rock climbing. Actually I just did

some outdoor rock climbing a couple days

ago and

>> I love rock climbing. I was always for

at least the last 15 years limited by my

right elbow which I had surgically

repaired. So, it's ready to go. And I

want to do some multi- pitch stuff in

Yose,

>> dude. Let's go.

>> Yeah. So, I don't know if I want to say

this.

>> All right, that's a good start. So, you

is a big rock climber.

>> Yeah. And he goes, he goes out to

Euseite.

>> I'm sure

>> we should go cuz he's invited me to go

up there and do some climbing.

>> He looks like someone who would be good.

>> Apparently, he's amazing. So, and I'm

like, dude, I can't go do multi- pitch

with you. And he's like, ah, just come

out. We'll have fun. Blah blah blah.

>> No, that's how you end up [ __ ]

>> Exactly.

>> I did multi- pitch when I was like 24

and it was like three pitches.

>> Like I didn't I didn't do ease.

>> Yeah. No, that's a commitment.

>> Yeah. So the idea of having something

like that to strive for having some type

of physical goal like that for me is

very helpful because just

not dying like training to not die

sooner than is necessary is not

sufficient for me. I'm just like that's

such a

>> depressing uninvigorating goal.

>> I'd much rather have something

>> that has a deadline, right? It's like,

"All right, you need to be able to do

X." In the case of the archery, it's

like Lancaster Classic. Here's the date.

You need to do this type of training and

this type of volume with this type of

deliberate practice.

>> Yeah.

>> In order to be prepared to train and

then compete, right? Okay.

>> Similarly, for something like a multi-

pitch, it's like, okay, you can break

that down. And I just enjoy doing that

stuff,

>> dude. So, let me ask you a question. The

number two, I don't know if you saw this

on my my story list. The number two

story I had was this guy Michael

Eckhart. Do you know who? No. No idea.

>> Oh my god. Okay. So, Herman and Rogan,

all these guys, they've talked about him

publicly about this guy. He has won

multiple pull-up world championships.

>> Okay.

>> And dude, when you watch him do a

pull-up, he's kind of one of those guys

that can bring the bar all the way down

and do like the circer and all that

stuff.

>> Yeah. Like where you can walk with your

feet and [ __ ] all the calisthenic

stuff. But he has a series of videos

that that teach you how to do finger

strength training

>> and I bought his course and I'm doing

this right now. But you got me into that

wooden device.

>> The nug.

>> The nug. So dude, you got to watch his

videos. They're amazing. Like seriously,

Joe's really into him. Like this guy

name is Michael Eckhart. You can find

him on Instagram. And it's all about

grip strength, pull-ups, and he's not

big, but he's shredded. Yeah. And I

think when I think about like the next

10 years, like I don't need to be big

big. It's probably not what you want,

>> right? Especially for rock climbing.

>> Yeah. Exactly. I mean, you need to be

lean, right? And strong. And that's what

I love about this. So, I'm getting into

I'm doing these every single day. Well,

I'm 2 days in, but

I'm getting into it, you know. But tell

us about the nug, cuz that was something

that you turned me on to.

>> The nug. I mean, I have it in my

suitcase at the hotel here.

It's just a simple little

wooden device. It looks like a very

large bar of soap with these different

indentations carved into the sides and

>> like little finger indentations.

>> Yeah, exactly. So, you can use a

carabiner to connect it to say a cable

machine of some type in any gym. And

look, you could use a loading pin and

all this then the other thing and a

daisy chain. But let's put that aside.

at a gym, you could use a cable and

connect it through the loop with a

carabiner and work on your hand

strength.

>> And you brought this to Santa Fe when we

were out there doing that meditation

thing.

>> I did. Yeah. I mean, it's literally

something small enough to slip into my

sweatshirt pocket. So, it's easy to

travel with.

>> I always travel with that and a band for

multiple purposes for like something

called DNS kind of core exercises. And I

>> Oh, yeah. I know DNS.

>> Yeah. So, I use a band for that and it's

incredibly easy to travel with

>> and then a handful of other things.

Something called an alpha ball, which I

use for different types of kind of

mobility. It's the size of like a very

large soft ball. And all this stuff fits

into the corner of a suitcase. And then

I'll do also something that maybe we

haven't talked about called Abrahes,

which so Abraham Hamson, Emil

Abrahamson, very well-known rock climber

on YouTube. And Abra hangs

>> I'm writing this down right now. Abra

hangs.

>> Abra hangs are pretty simple. I mean,

it's partial body weight hangs in

different positions for 10 seconds on,

50 seconds off for 10 minutes. And you

do that twice a day. And it's very very

moderate in intensity

>> with like a wooden kind of rock climbing

kind of like

>> use a hangboard. Yeah.

>> I mean you could also use a pull-up bar

depending on how you position your

hands.

>> And that's what I was doing in Santa Fe

was that kind of stuff. 10 seconds on 50

seconds off. And

>> the endurance and strength gains that

you get in your hands are just insane.

Your I should say your lower arms.

>> And

it really helps. So, I've been doing

indoor climbing, but ultimately I'm

like, you know what? As a stretch goal,

multi- pitch outdoor yuseite.

>> Yeah.

>> And I am deadly terrified of heights.

Deadly. Like just talking like look,

look at my hands. Like I'm sweaty just

talking about.

>> Dude, when I watch Free Solo, my hands

are sweating the entire time.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> For people that haven't seen that

documentary, even if you're not into

rock climbing, that is amazing.

>> Yeah. Watch Free Solo. It'll freak you

out. So, that's one that I'm thinking

about going deep on. I'd say that's very

high up on the list because

>> that's awesome, dude. We're going to be

Let's do that together. I'm totally

down. I'm into it.

>> I am totally into it. I mean, rock

climbing when approached in a reasonable

way, like a systematic, reasonable way,

not with like crazy dino movements on

bouldering necessarily. I mean, look,

younger bodies can handle it. Certain

bodies can handle it. My body, not so

much.

>> Yeah.

>> I do not want to fall repeatedly from

10, 15 feet up. I'm just not into it.

So,

In the case of doing it reasonably

though, for instance, I spent a bunch of

time I've spent a lot of time in Utah

and climbing in some of the Salt Lake

City indoor gyms. You have incredible

athletes and I'll I'll make that a

little finer tuned. When I would go to

the gym, it was generally like 11:00

a.m., right? Who the hell goes to the

rock climbing gym at 11:00 a.m. on a

weekday? These are retirees

>> and moms. So you would see for instance

these like 60, 70, 75, almost 80 year

olds were doing like 5'11 plus.

>> This is when you were single. So that

was like prime hunting.

>> Exactly. Cougarville. And

you would just see these people in their

60s and 70s doing things that I could

not even imagine doing with complete

inversion on overhangs.

>> Oh yeah. I've seen this. 60, 70 ft up,

you had the national speed climbing

team, you had Olympians, but more than

like the young guns, right, the

15year-olds who are doing all this crazy

stuff because they're impervious.

>> Yeah.

>> It was the people in their 60s and 70s

who were climbing every day that

inspired me to want to take this more

seriously. So, I was like, "Okay,

>> I want to play the long game here.

>> What can I do that's fun? It's a puzzle.

There's a lot of Tetris.

>> They literally call bouldering they call

them problems.

>> Yeah. Problems. Yeah. Exactly. And so

there's a lot of brain power involved

and also it's just to give an idea of

the technicality. I mean there are for

example women who cannot do five

pull-ups who can climb 513 514. That's

very very very very hard. Just for

people who have no reference point like

world class like 514 515 like insane

insane. Like that's when you're in the

magazines.

>> And it's because of sort of the

technical adeptness. And yeah, there's

like ape index and other physiological

factors that play into it. But that is a

very long answer to your question of

what I'm thinking about now, which is

rock climbing. The archery was great and

the competition was fantastic. I love

competing. However, archery is by

definition incredibly solitary. like

you're just by yourself doing the same

thing over and over and over again

thousands of times.

>> And

I have had enough of that in my life.

I've hit my quota.

>> I want to hang out with other people.

>> Timing is super social cuz you'll sit

there and if neither of you can do it,

you'll you'll be like, "Ah, like what if

you put your like foot in like that and

like kind of lunged up that way and

stretched, you know what I mean? Like

>> Yeah. And then you can ask other people

for tips like beta, right? Hey, can you

give me some beta on this?"

>> It's fun.

>> It's really fun. I just love it. You

know, I wanted to mention something if

people haven't read it. The Blade

Itself, which is a series, it's not very

long. I think it's two or three volumes

by Joe Abberrombie. It's fantasy novels.

They're really good. The audio books are

incredible. And the reason I thought of

this, the Blade itself,

is because of our conversation around M

and Toaster. And you know, a friend of

mine just died in a plane crashes. Less

than two weeks.

>> Wait, the one that the Nets one that

went you knew him?

>> Yeah, Josh.

>> Oh, god. That was a latitude, too.

>> Yeah, I know. I know. I know. So, you

just don't know when your time is up.

And in the blade itself, I mean, there

are a lot of serious sucks.

>> Yeah. Thanks. And we weren't like super

close friends, but certainly like

friendly, you know, acquaintances like

we've It wouldn't be strange to text.

>> And you just don't know when your time

is up. And the blade itself explores

this in a million different dimensions.

It's really really outstanding. I've

read I say that as someone who's read a

lot of fantasy

and it just talks about the randomness

of life or death and war, right? It's

like you happen to like squat down, take

a [ __ ] and the guy next to you gets an

arrow through the head. It's like it's

just dumb luck.

>> Yeah. Yeah. which is a way to I suppose

reiterate the gratitude piece that you

were mentioning earlier. So, I mean

that's going to be a tough act to

follow, but where do you want to go from

that?

>> Yeah, I mean a few things. Let's change

it up into Well, let's just go straight

into like working out. Have you tried

this?

>> Yeah, I have actually.

>> Okay. I really like it. So for people

that are on audio, I just got turned on

to this new protein called Pioneer

Pastures and it's 30 grams in this

little tiny shake.

>> It's A2, so it has lactose removed and

it's also from that special genetic cow.

Do you know more about the A2? Can you

speak to

>> I've heard about the A2. I don't know a

whole lot about it. It's like the whole

and some other cow and da da da da.

>> More people tolerate A2 better than not.

I don't get any stomach issues or

anything with this type of whey protein.

Anyway, I'm not an investor or any [ __ ]

like that. You can get it at Target or

whatever. It's tasty as hell and it's 30

grams and I don't know like I'm trying

if you're trying to put a little muscle

mass on.

>> I love that this is next to the Lo

tequila.

>> Yeah, exactly. I mean, you can mix them

if you want.

>> Everything a growing boy needs.

>> Anyway, I just I just wanted to know if

you had tried it cuz like we always This

is the random show. We talk about [ __ ]

>> Yeah, I tried it.

>> You like it?

>> I do. Yeah. There was a gym I can't

remember exactly. I think it Brooklyn

Barbell Club where they sold this and I

tried it then and I did. Yeah. Tolerated

it super well. didn't get the grumpy

guts. Yeah.

>> As one might.

>> What's your favorite protein? Out of

curiosity.

>> I mean, my protein, I mean, this is a

softball pitch, but

>> funny you should ask, Kevin,

>> and look, I'm involved with this one,

but you know what? I It's like I always

disclose. Have you noticed how few

[ __ ] people disclose what they're

involved with? They're like, "Yeah, I've

heard of this great thing. Oh my god."

And they never disclose they're

involved. The fact that

>> you could literally go to jail for that

[ __ ]

>> No, I know. Uh, but the FTC doesn't

enforce that stuff. Anyway, I mean,

right now, like I'm traveling with Maui

Nui as usual. This one though is kind of

interesting.

>> I probably get 40% of my protein from

Maui Newi venison. This is wild

harvested axis deer from Hawaii. There's

a long story there, but incredibly

nutrientdense.

>> I love this [ __ ] And this is not an ad,

but I do have a hard question for you.

Like a real hard question. And this is

how you know that it's not an ad because

what I'm about to say. Let's hear it.

>> Processed meat nitrates

>> linked to a lot of cancer and bad [ __ ]

>> What are your thoughts on that?

>> This is very very very minimally

processed. So you can get summer sausage

or the sticks. This is free of most of

that [ __ ]

>> What do you think that is? Cuz it is

real. Like people that eat more like

nitrate processed ultrarocessed meats.

>> Yeah. If it's ultrarocessed and the

shelf life is like 3 years, I would

raise an eyebrow and probably hit pause.

So the fact of the matter is most of

this stuff that is minimally processed

almost definitionally is not going to

last very long on the shelf.

>> What do they mean by minimally processed

when you see like a a meat stick? Like

what do you think about like that versus

is it the amount of salt content that

creates the nitrates? No, no, it's

actually nitrates are a totally separate

category. So you're looking to I think

an easy heruristic for this is just

shelf life, right? Like how long will

this

>> How long are those?

>> Uh your eyes are going to be better than

mine. If you can read the size two font

on this, then you can tell me.

>> Good then.

>> Give it a go. I'll buy you some time. In

the meantime,

>> 27 years.

>> No, I'm just kidding. Yeah.

>> 25 years.

>> It doesn't say on here.

>> Yeah, it'll say somewhere on the box.

There we go.

>> Oh, buy.

>> Yeah, 27. So, it's like less than one

year, I think, actually. Looking at

here.

>> Yeah, less than one year. Wow. And what

makes this interesting is that this I

give also Molly looks really good for 12

years.

>> Mhm.

>> I give her probably two or three of

these a week. The way I think of this,

this is peppered 10. So they're a bunch

of these different sticks. Like every

professional team you can imagine uses

these things in their training. But this

is made with wild harvested venison,

liver, and heart. So it has some organ

meat in it. You do not taste that. It

just tastes like regular jerky stick.

But I treat this like a multivitamin. So

it's like I take, let's call it two or

three of these a week and limit it to

that and then the rest of the time I'm

taking their other either peppered or

regular sticks. But this is when I'm on

the go. I mean literally this was in my

bag when I got here, right?

>> When I'm on the go, I'm traveling with

this. Probably some nuts of some type

like pistachios or whatever. Walnuts

pretty good for a host of reasons. And

that's about it. I mean, I might have a

couple of servings of exogenous ketones,

but I haven't taken that stuff in a

couple of months.

>> You told me. You freaked me out. It

messes up your liver. This is a

controversial topic. So, yeah, there are

certain

exogenous ketones that contain something

called 13b butane dial. It's very

common, and there's a lot of debate

around this. So, the jury is still out,

but some people believe that that can

produce liver toxicity.

So, I consume anything with 13 butane

dial in moderation.

>> Now, to play devil's advocate to a

counterpoint, a lot of the people who

are putting forth that hypothesis or

claiming that's true are selling their

own ketone salts. So, they're actually

selling a competitive product. I see. I

see.

>> So, question mark.

But I mean look, you can look at the

peer-reviewed literature and decide for

yourself. What I have decided personally

is that you should use the exogenous

ketones very intermittently. I have

experimented a lot with every type of

exogenous ketone you can imagine. I

mean, you got me on that good [ __ ] It's

expensive as hell, but like that stuff

goes straight to your head. The one that

you didn't want. We can talk about it.

>> You know what's funny is like when Tim

This is how you know it's good off

camera. Tim's like, "I don't want to

mention the brand because if I do, it'll

sell out and I won't be able to get my

own supply." And that's how I knew I was

like, "That's some good shit." And Tim

wants to guard his own supply of it.

Like, you know, it's good. Yeah. And it

is good, but it's BHB.

I won't get too much into the

technicality here, but it's beta

hydroxybutyrate bonded to 13 butin dial.

So, you're still getting that 13b butane

dial, which means you should take it in

moderation, but

in a pinch when you want it for a

podcast or something like that, man, it

really works.

>> It does work.

>> It really works. And I mean, I've given

it to relatives with dementia

>> and within 20 minutes their sentences

have like 5xed in length and they're

more acute verbally. It's wild. How do

you give it? I wish they had it in pill

form because in some sense it's really

hard to give that to someone that has

dementia because it's like it tastes

like gasoline. It doesn't taste great.

It's not the worst thing. I mean, I've

had a lot of foul stuff in my life. I

just did a shot with this person and I

was like, I'll do it with you and then

we went for a walk and that was it.

There are some concerns around 13 butane

dial and balance. So, particularly in

older adults, you do not want to

contribute to any risk of breaking a

hip.

>> Yeah, 100%.

>> That's just the death nail for a lot of

people.

>> I just had to put my mom into a

different home. It's actually kind of

cool. It's sad, but she's been falling

and they had this like like new AI orb

that sits up there and it kind of does

like a kind of radar type situation

>> and it detects falls.

>> Oh, wow. So the second she falls in the

home like they can rush in and like help

her out and all that and they they

carpet the hell out of it now and stuff

like that. So

>> how do you think about sort of preg

grieving that or contending with that

yourself

>> in terms of

>> with family? That's rough. I mean

>> yeah I mean

>> doesn't sound easy cuz if you like play

forward the tape right it's like I mean

I think about this with my own parents

and it's just like nobody nobody lasts

forever. It's one of those things where

it's so funny because when you're a

teenager and I remember when my dad was

having a hard time standing and this was

like when I was much younger before he

passed and I was like, "Oh, dad's going

to be in like the thing that I might

have to like push him on it if he has to

sit down." Kind of those walkers that

can also be something you can push

somebody on.

>> I was so embarrassed, you know? I was

like, "Oh, people are looking at us or

whatever."

>> And now I like push my mom with pride in

her walker thing. And I'm like,

>> I don't know. You don't know when it's

going to what's going to happen, but the

only thing you can do is just make sure

to show up, you know, and hang out.

>> And and I'm very lucky that my mom has

dementia, but it's it is a type that

>> it's not Alzheimer's, so it's probably

vascular or something.

>> So, I can walk in and she knows who I

am. She can't tell what she had for

breakfast, but she knows who I am, which

is like, I'll take that all day long for

sure, you know? So,

>> yeah.

>> I know you have family members that are

in the same boat, which is tough. a ton

of family members with Alzheimer's. I

mean, literally, I got a call from one

of my relatives wanting to discuss

interventions and it's a tough

conversation because there really isn't

much like you have to, as far as I can

tell, act preemptively, which is why

actually this relates to another bullet

of mine.

>> Do you have five?

>> What was that?

>> How many bullets did you have?

>> Oh, how many bullets? Yeah, that was

good. of all of all the rye whisies.

It's the only one that I can tolerate. I

loathe stationary bikes. I just I I

really find stationary biking to be one

of the most soul crushing things in the

world.

>> It's the worst.

>> However, yeah, I mean, I've tried

Pelaton and didn't like the ergonomics

and so on for a bunch of reasons. And

then I have tried very expensive, very,

very expensive setups recommended to me

by fancy doctors. and so on which are

just like too uncomfortable. Like I'm

incredibly hunched over like my back is

basically parallel with the floor.

>> What are you talking about?

>> And I'm like kneing myself in the

stomach. It's so

>> uncom. What are you talking?

>> No. No. I'm talking about getting on

like a stationary bike. But if you're in

like a racing position,

>> you have to adopt this hunchback. And

like there are a million reasons why I

find that uncomfortable.

>> There is a bike, however, it's very easy

to find. It's pretty common in public

gyms called the Kaiser M3i

studio indoor bike. I don't know why

they have to make it so difficult in its

nomenclature, but the Kaiser M3i is

unique in my experience in that you can

elevate the handlebars enough to sit in

a comfortable position with a decent

saddle, meaning the seat such that I can

do the V2 and the V4 and all of that

training

>> for me in a comfortable position without

compromising my low back, which has been

a huge step forward. So, this is the

only bike that I've used consistently

>> for this kind of training. And I was

having a number of conversations with a

neuroscientist named Dr. Tommy Wood over

a period of weeks. And if for instance

you do something called the Norwegian

4x4, there's data to suggest that if you

do it's V2 max training, so it's very

very very intense, but it's like

>> 4 minutes on 3 to four minutes off.

Let's just call it 3 minutes. Four

minutes on, three minutes off and you do

that for four rounds. This is the only

bike that I've been able to use to do

this consistently. And if you do that

for I think it's three times a week

>> for five to six months, the

volutric changes, meaning the

neuroanatomical changes in the

hippocampus and other areas that are

certainly indicated in things like

Alzheimer's lasts for up to 5 years.

>> Wow. So if you do 5 to 6 months of

gutting it out three times a week, the

result [ __ ] the dividends pay off for it

seems up to or possibly beyond 5 years.

>> Holy [ __ ]

>> Crazy. So

>> throwing some sauna in there and you're

like

>> well that's why I'm doing Yeah. I'm

doing all the usual stuff, right? I'm

doing the sauna and

>> don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

You know what I mean? It's like okay,

sure. You don't have 30 minutes to do

like do 10 minutes. Like you can't do a

sauna, take a hot bath. Like,

>> yeah,

>> figure it out.

>> You know what my good is that I like?

>> What's that?

>> It's not perfect, but it's good. Which

is I go on my treadmill. I set it to

4.75

or something incline.

>> So, it's like not crazy, but it's not,

you know, I can still do [ __ ]

>> Yeah.

>> And I set it to only like 2.5 on the

walking.

>> Yeah.

>> And I'll play Duolingo chess cuz they

have chess on there now for Duolingo.

They teach you chess. It's amazing. And

you can play friends and live people and

all that stuff and they do game replays

and like teach and I'm learning a ton.

>> Yeah.

>> And 30 40 minutes go by and you're

drenched in sweat. I know it's not high

intensity and all the benefits on the

the cognitive side seem to be around

like a lot of highend hits.

>> Yeah. But who knows?

>> But it's good.

>> It's doing something right. So I've

really enjoyed that. Like if you if you

just want something

>> to both be like learning and engaged and

kind of like having fun.

>> Yeah. So, you forget about the time. Do

you know what I'm talking about? Where

it's like you just like, "Oh, wait. What

time is it? Oh, [ __ ] I've been on for

37 minutes. I can get off now." You

know? Like I I love that type of cardio.

>> Yeah. I mean, for me, I mean, this is

this is going to sound like maybe a step

down, but it's like the older I get, the

more I realize a little goes a long way.

Like yesterday for instance, I had a

bunch of stuff stacked up and I won't

bore people with the commitments, but I

didn't really have any time to go to the

gym and it was my day to go to the gym

to do X, Y, and Z exercise. And I went

in and I did three sets. I was literally

in there for 5 minutes and I left.

>> But it's better than nothing,

>> right? Totally

>> right. Something is better than nothing.

I'm not going to go to the Olympics with

that approach, but let's [ __ ] be

real. I'm not going to

>> You're never going to lose it.

>> I mean, maybe as like a bystander like

like in the

>> Oh, man. So, I'll throw some new random

stuff in there. There's a study that got

my attention. It's been It's been out

since 2025.

September 202. This is in Jamma.

And this is the title. single treatment

with MM120 and then in parenthesis

laseride I think is how that's

pronounced in generalized anxiety

disorder

>> GAD GAD. This is a randomized clinical

trial looking at anxiety which is often

comorbid meaning happening at the same

time as depressive disorders and I think

this is sponsored by a company called

Definium which used to be MindMed.

>> I know where this is going. I just

looked it up. Oh my god.

>> Yeah. Well, what's interesting about

this, and they're not going to maybe

love my comparison, but so MM120 Leride,

I mean, it's comparable to LSD,

>> right?

>> And this is a multi-arm clinical trial.

They did five arms, which is rare to do

because the risk is that they'll blend

together. So the arm means a group who

has is treated with a different

intervention in this case. So they've

got placebo, 25 micrograms, 50

micrograms, 100 micrograms, and 200

micrograms. 100 mics.

>> That's what they give standard for LSD.

>> That's that's what you can think of as a

standard hit. 100 micrograms.

>> And the results are wild, man. If you

look at the ham a score, this is up to

12 weeks out. You can see, I'll just

show you how it's dose dependent. the

more you take basically the better it

goes up to and I'm not sure how long the

follow-ups continued but where you land

is you see that like the 100 micrograms

and 200 are very very close to it like

25 and 50 are certainly a lot higher

>> now are you still getting the same

psychedelic experience

>> with this stuff or

>> in the case of this particular compound

I don't know my guess would be yes I

could be totally wrong in that to

definium feel free to correct me. I am

guessing the answer is yes with MM120

but what that says to me is hey 12 weeks

of relief with GAD generalized anxiety

disorder which I've been clinically

diagnosed with that and OCD like 12

weeks is pretty good and it seems like

at least according to the data in this

study the minimum effective dose would

be 100 micrograms. Now, 100 micrograms,

at least for me and for a lot of people,

you will be tripping your balls off. Not

to get too technical. Wait a second,

dude. It says that this was done at

Neuroscape at UCSF.

>> Was it really?

>> This is Adam's lab.

>> No [ __ ] Are you serious?

>> I'm dead serious. I just clicked through

on it. It says phase three trial of

MM120 for GAD.

>> Trial. This is our buddy.

>> This is our buddy Adam. Okay. Well, I

have a text that I need to send them.

>> Oh my god,

>> that's awesome. I wonder if I indirectly

funded this because I helped fund some

of Neuroscape stuff. That's funny. I

>> Isn't that hilarious?

>> Yeah, I did not look at that. That's

hilarious. Small world.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay, there you go. So, you know, it's

interesting for GAD. We were talking

about dementia.

There's a case report with highdosese

salosabia mushrooms. I don't think it

was actually psilocybin synthesized

looking at this particular I think it

was a Japanese elderly woman with

dementia may have been Alzheimer's who

took I can't believe they did this to

her

>> five grams right

>> yeah and then she took five grams so

Terrence McKenna heroic dose somehow

fell asleep for like 19 hours or

something obscene which would be very

very worrisome if you're the child of

said parent wakes up and then starts

having like whole expositional

conversations

in contrast with her previous

monoselabic or or single word responses

to things and it was transient. It

didn't last forever but it raises some

very interesting questions. I've seen at

least some case reports also with LSD

producing similar effects and I've been

interested in this for probably a

decade. I've hypothesized this could be

the case. It's just like, do you really

want to give your parent like under what

circumstances is it ethical

>> to give someone hallucinating?

>> See, I could never do that to my mom

because she was always anti all this

stuff.

>> Yeah.

>> And then the second, god forbid they

have a bad trip. Like why would you want

to put them through that, you know? So,

it's curious. I was sent something by

someone I won't mention, but a very

interesting case report on micro doing

with LSD

>> with someone with dementia. But did it

work?

>> Yeah.

>> Oh, really?

>> Yeah. And in terms of similar to the

ketones, not saying the mechanism is the

same, but producing much more verbal

fluidity, right? Going from like, uh,

I'm good. It depends,

>> right? I have relatives who are limited

to that now. Like, they're basically

giving answers that are non-answers.

Sounds good, right? Like these things

that you could use as a reply to

anything, right? They're not necessarily

groing what's happening

to full paragraphs,

>> right? Which means to my interpretation,

it's like offline to online, right? It's

a really stark difference because with

the one word, two-word answers, like you

don't actually know if they're

understanding what's happening.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Do you have some MM120 on

you right now?

>> No, I don't. I don't. If I did, I would

probably not take

>> the podcast. If you see a weird cut in

the the video and then we get infinitely

smarter. Yeah, you you'll know.

>> Little glitch here there. Yeah, exactly.

It's a flash and all of a sudden we're

just like, yeah, for smarter I would

keep it probably to 20 mics or below.

We'll see. But, you know, I found this

pretty interesting for for GD

especially. And then for the dementia

piece, but it raises a lot of ethical

questions.

>> What is ethical to use as a treatment

and someone who cannot give consent?

>> Right. Right.

>> That's a tough gnarly problem. Right.

>> Yeah.

>> Especially if you're dealing with stuff

that is not exactly prescription

medication.

>> Yeah. I mean, that's the whole thing. If

it goes sideways, you feel like an

[ __ ]

>> Well, and to put it mildly.

>> Yeah. To put it mildly. But if it's

amazing and it gives you another, you

know, half day with a parent or a loved

one and you can full have conversations

and they see you and you see them in a

way that you hadn't in 6 months like or

a year. Like that's amazing, right? or

if it potentially slows the decline,

>> right? I I think it's too much to hope

for a reversal, frankly.

>> Yeah.

>> But there are some strange phenomena out

there, man. Like there's this phenomenon

called terminal lucidity where someone

like on their deathbed when they've been

off this. There's that book that I told

you read. Did you read that?

>> I'm not the afterlife book.

>> No, I didn't read that.

>> Okay. Cuz they they talk about that.

>> This is well this is well documented

where people suddenly they've been

basically vegetative,

>> right? or completely unable to respond

>> in their last two days. They come fully

lucid. Yeah,

>> they become totally lucid. They have

full-blown extensive conversations.

That's why what the [ __ ] is going on?

>> Dude, I'm telling you, it is so weird to

me that we think like like a lot of the

things that we do in physical form, like

what we do in life mimics nature in many

ways. And all of our data is like backed

up in the cloud. And we're like, "Oh,

we're not backed up in the cloud in any

Right. And then there's these people

with like full-blown entanglements in

their brain, fullon, you know, the

Alzheimer's for like a decade and they

become completely

>> lucid. Where is that coming from?

>> Okay, I see what you're saying. I wasn't

tracking that fully for a second, but if

I'm hearing you correctly, it's like if

it's all

>> localized No, I'm saying like if all of

that ability is localized within the

confines of the skull.

>> Mhm.

>> How do you explain

>> right

>> this given all the structural

deterioration?

>> Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I don't have

good answers for that. I just don't. It

is a well doumented, as far as I know, a

well doumented phenomenon.

>> So, it's like, go figure that one out. I

mean, I'm not qualified. Way above my

pay grade. It's

>> crazy, man.

>> It's wild.

>> It is wild.

>> So, I'll give a shout out to somebody.

We're not going to open this right now

cuz we'll start chewing on them and

we'll be up all night.

>> Is that the 120?

>> No, this is Newtonic.

Nu T O N I C. No tropics. See, that's a

pun. No tropics. cuz these are

toothpicks that I was given by a

podcaster you may recognize named Chris

Williamson. And they they have like 20

>> I want to say 20 I might be getting that

off but like 20 25 milligrams of

caffeine in each toothpick.

>> Oh wow.

>> And there are a couple of other

nutropics aka coffee. Yeah. smart trucks

in there and they're great

>> because if I have cups of coffee, I will

chug a cup of coffee and then if it gets

refilled, I'll chug another cup of

coffee and it's a problem. These

actually is in terms of pacing

>> have been fantastic. So that's been my

sort of not exactly quite as interrupt

for people who get that but sort of

ad libidum interruptus. Yeah, the

avoiding overconumption of coffee and

other stimulants. This helps me to kind

of pace it cuz even if I chew on this

thing until it's fragments of wood, max

I can squeeze out of it is 20 25

>> milligs.

>> What else do you got, Kevin?

>> Yeah. I mean, the only other thing that

I have that I think is is interesting is

what's happening in the world of I don't

want to talk a lot about AI because I'm

just frankly AIDed out, but I will say

that the idea that we can all now kind

of take control of

our productivity and pretty much

anything that we want to control now,

like device-wise,

>> we can do with just a few simple prompts

on AI. And I had a buddy that came over

to my house and he was like, "Hey, you

got cameras in your house." I have

something called ubiquity, which is

like, you know, like they have cameras

and there it's a very common kind of

household type situation when you want

to have security system, front door

thing, cameras, sensors, water detectors

underneath things in case things leak

and you're out of town, whatever.

>> And so I've got this whole setup and

he's like, "Hey, you know, they have a

full-on API where you can just tell

Claude or whatever to code against it."

And I was like, "Okay, this is

interesting." Well, like, well, what can

it do? And so, the cameras now have AI

sensors where they can detect who it is

that's walking in.

>> So, it's like, "Oh, Tim's coming up to

your door. Oh, that's your daughter.

That's your dog." What? It detects my

dog, Toaster. Like, it sees him and it

puts it like a little dog emblem above

his head when he's walking around and it

knows that it's Toaster. But the crazy

[ __ ] is I was like, "Okay, well, what if

I can go further and I can tell it to do

actions because there there's a speaker

hooked up to as well." So that's for

security. Yeah.

>> So basically, if anyone loiters in my

alleyway and it detects it, it's like I

have I play some like really funky [ __ ]

where it's like detected like loiter in

the alleyway like or whatever. And just

to scare people off in case they're

>> I am the bad man.

>> Yeah. Well, I mean, you could draw

little areas around where they shouldn't

be, which is like at your door fiddling

with your door, and say, "If they stand

here for more than 30 seconds, play said

audio out of speaker."

>> So, I was like, "Okay, this is

interesting. Well,

>> what if when I walk in my house,

>> if I'm wearing like a hat of like my

favorite sports team and they're

playing, it like reads me the scores

like I walk in." Mhm.

>> So you can think about all these things

where it's doing stuff based on your

activity, right? So like if you're out

there gardening, it'll be like, "Hey

Kevin, I noticed that the plant over

here wasn't watered enough or like so

it's watching all of this stuff."

>> And so there's a lot of if then then

that kind of situation like if I see you

doing X. So, like the latest I have is I

programmed it so when it sees the

license plate on my car,

>> it automatically knows to open the gate

>> because it knows it's me.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And the camera looks at the license

plate on the freaking car, checks it

against the database, and allows me in.

How crazy is that?

>> And for people that are listening, I'm

not talking about $10,000 systems. The

camera is like $200.

>> Anyone can do this at home, you know?

>> It's just wild to think about. Finally,

we had all these these kind of discrete

systems that you know I had some Nest

stuff and I had some Google Home stuff.

Now they're all talking to each other.

>> So you can just do kind of really crazy

I know you would like this because

>> you're the kind of person that you've

told me before like you don't like to

answer your door cuz if the delivery

person is like Tim then all of a sudden

your address is all over the internet

>> docs. Yeah.

>> Yeah. I mean, I know you said you don't

I'm also pretty AIed out, but at the

same time, it's like I can't I can't

resist going back to the opium den. It's

so fascinating.

>> What are you doing now with the with the

eye stuff?

>> Well, I mean, I'm more curious to hear

your thoughts and predictions, frankly,

because I think you're better at it. But

>> I mean, I'm using clawed code with

various APIs to do tons of like inbox

analysis and stuff, right? I'm doing a

20 year retrospective analysis of angel

investing.

>> It's like who made what introductions,

which companies did I not reply to that

ended up being successes, which did I

turn down that ended up being

>> really important.

>> You really want to do that to yourself.

>> Well, I suspected it would be worse than

it was. I actually have not I haven't

missed that many explicit opportunities.

I wanted to test my own stories against

data, right? because I have all sorts of

stories, right, about why I did certain

things, why certain things worked out,

>> and I have certain stories about my

>> batting average. And I'm like,

>> but is it true?

>> Right? Really, is it really true? Let's

look at some hard numbers. The sad

truth, and I have a buddy that wears the

bracelet, and you've seen me with the

necklace around the it categorizes your

AI and listens to you 24/7.

>> Yeah. It's about 70ish% that we think we

know, but is actually what we know.

>> Yeah.

>> Out of the 100% of like what we think we

know. This is the truth. I said I wanted

a dark chocolate bar at 7:00 p.m.

>> Yeah.

>> It's like, no, you said it at 5 and you

said it this way. You know,

>> you said it was milk chocolate.

>> Yeah, exactly. So, it's always about 20%

off from where you actually think your

brain's at.

>> Sure.

>> Which is brutal.

>> Well, plus I mean, that's like last

week, right? If you're talking about

like 15 years ago.

>> Exactly. I mean, if you listen to any

Genesis story of any startup, you're

like, "Wait a minute now." Like, this is

like a startup comic working on

material, but he's been working on this

one 5minute bit so long that now he

believes that's actually truth.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, the sanitizing and the editing

of these startup Genesis stories is

hilarious. And there's no reason to

think that I would be or you would be

exempt from it,

>> right? When you're telling your own

story, even if you're just telling it to

yourself. So, what's the number one

thing that you've learned by applying AI

to your life in this fashion? Like,

what's the thing where you walked away

and said,

>> "Damn, that was insightful and I'm going

to change my behavior or I learned

something new about myself that I

wouldn't have if I had not used AI."

Well, I think from a holistic health

perspective, by holistic I mean having

enough data related to medications,

supplements, predispositions, side

effects, what happened to me 2 weeks

ago. The LLMs have been incredibly

helpful. I mean, the picture that they

get and the speed with which they can

deliver an answer that I can interrogate

is just incredible. What did you learn?

Like what was the thing that you

>> I mean, honestly, it's mostly avoiding