Welcome to a new episode of Power

Players and I'm really excited for my

next guest cuz I love me some sports.

I'm getting to love soccer

football. We're in World Cup season at

the time of this taping. Let's bring in

Karin Norman Monarch Collective

co-founder and managing partner. Karin,

good to see you. They made me hold this

soccer ball to bring you in. I think

it's only really fitting.

>> Yeah, you're doing a good job. Can you

Can you palm it?

>> I could I could palm it. Like look at

that

That's like ALL THE BIG GUYS.

THERE WE GO.

>> YOU'RE VERSATILE. YOU CAN go water polo

basketball. You have You have it all.

>> Look, I think we have a mutual friend in

our CEO Jim Lanzone. You just tell him

I'm like I'm multi-faceted {slash}

management {slash} talent. You just send

him that note.

>> I'm going to tell Jim. I'm going to tell

him right afterwards.

>> All right. I I appreciate it. Well, it's

good to connect with you. I've been

following your work for for some time.

This isn't the first time we've spoke,

but for those not familiar with what you

are doing at Monarch Collective, just

walk us through it because you have been

really at the forefront of the women's

sports movement.

>> Yeah, well so I spent most of my career

initially in in tech and media and then

I got bitten by football or soccer in

2015. You know, went to a World Cup game

with my daughters, my my husband, my

parents, time of my life, couldn't buy

jerseys, couldn't find content for this

league I didn't know existed and it sent

me on this journey of trying to

understand

how hundreds of millions of people could

be watching women's World Cup on

television and streaming, but there was

nowhere to go with our demand. So that

was like what got me initially. I ended

up first becoming an advisor to the US

Women's National Team Players Union when

they were doing their pay equity and

early name and likeness and then I ended

up co-founding Angel City Football Club

with Julie Foudy and Natalie Portman.

And that was like we created a model

that didn't exist and I'll get into

Monarch, but Monarch in a way was sort

of the outgrowth of like the day-to-day

operating and coalition building

that went into starting Angel City,

which we went from zero to we were

women's soccer club in LA in the NWSL

and we were the first ones to build a

real commercial P&L and put a lot of

butts in seats. So we went from zero to

30 million in revenue,

16,000 season ticket holders the first

year selling merch in 51 countries and

49 states and that was like, wow, if

this happens once, it can happen

multiple times, but it's not going to

happen by accident. So anyway, I left

and started Monarch Collective with my

co-founder Jasmine Robinson. We were the

first investment vehicle to exclusively

focus on women's sports teams, leagues

and rights in the most mature parts of

the ecosystem. We can get into it and we

raised a $250 million fund to do premium

things that required a lot of

operational hands-on support and to do

it in a mission-aligned way where we

lived our values every day and how we

built the community from our investor

base all the way through to fans,

players and the like.

>> What's in the fund as of today?

>> So we have six positions in the fund.

Again, we invest in sort of the most

mature parts of the ecosystem, the ones

that are hard to get into. So we spend

not months, but often years I'd say

wasting time with the right people. So

we now have five teams, two continents,

two sports and one rights-based

business.

We are investors in three NWSL soccer

teams in the US, Boston Legacy,

Angel City, San Diego Wave. We've done a

fully independent women's team in Berlin

called FC Victoria, which was spun out

of a supporters group that started in

1889.

We have just invested alongside Dan

Gilbert

as a in the W the Cleveland WNBA team

and it was sort of reported publicly. We

were the first

like fund to to to do that

after you know, kind of spending time

and building relationships to figure out

the right place to to begin um, and then

we've um, incubated a rights based

business that came out of a lot of our

work. So, we show up very operationally

with our teams and we tend to do

everything from like

scope five or six projects, um, all the

way to, you know, and recruit talent and

bring in brand sponsors, all the way to

in some cases we can fully operate

things, but every one of the teams was

asking us for help with their

merchandise and I mentioned up front

Angel City sold in

globally. We were blown away, um, and so

we fully incubated a commerce rights

business to super serve the women's

sports fan and worked on that for about

a year and a half quietly and just

launched with the Atlanta Dream and, um,

the group there in Atlanta to power

their merchandise both in retail and

digitally. So, it's very exciting.

>> There's a lot of

first with you. I you seem to be have

been very early in Spotify. I'm not or

just spotting a lot of what is now

happening with women's sports, but I

think back to your early days incubating

Tinder. Um, what do you what is your

what is your investment

philosophy? Like, how are you spotting

what looks to be really undervalued

assets before anybody else?

>> I mean, I think it's like, you know,

it's I think it's the intersection of

markets that you have a strong instinct

in or you're spending time, um, and

naturally curious about and I think this

is a thing

um, I do well when that's true and I'm

not forcing it. Like, I can force myself

to be interested in almost anything, but

like

I'm likely to be better in something

that's not like cybersecurity, which

I've spent time in, but something that

I'm like truly what am I reading about

at 2:00 in the morning and obsessing

about and I go on these multi-year

journeys around it. Like, now I know

if it like I get interested in 10 things

a week, but which are the ones that

stick around over months? Like, I I I

know.

>> [laughter]

>> Well, I'm going to make cybersecurity

interesting. Like, check this out. So,

it's George Kurtz, founder of

CrowdStrike. He just won another Le Mans

and And a professional race car driver.

>> Oh, I love it. By the way, I am I

shouldn't have picked cybersecurity. I

get I get I can nerd I can nerd out on

cybersecurity. I will shock you. I can

throw it around. Um but that was my old

world. Um but there is a difference.

Like I'm probably a like a six or seven

out of 10 on cybersecurity, whereas like

12 out of 10 on women's sports and like

the way you know is I walked away from a

big paying job and I just become a

managing partner to a big venture fund

here in LA and that's what I thought I

wanted to do forever and took my salary

to zero and found a co-founder and we

went and did this. Or Angel City, I

didn't start in I didn't start with

Angel City thinking like I needed to be

a co-founder of a team. I just wanted a

women's soccer team to exist in LA. And

Natalie and I are like, "Hey, how do we

do this?"

And we had a we had a plan that didn't

involve us starting it, but nobody else

seemed to want to do it. And then

finally she looked at me and she said,

"Kara, is this how it works in your

industry? Like you and I do all the

work, but someone else owns it?" And I

said, "Actually, no. You know, there's

something called sweat equity in in tech

land and founder land. And no one really

wanted to give us a big check, which is

what we knew we needed. And so we ended

up raising a million-dollar at a

six-million-dollar valuation three weeks

before COVID. We knew that wasn't enough

and we you know, we started owning 100%

and then we owned a little bit less.

But like we were looking for someone

else to do it as a first option and then

I just wanted it to exist and that we

were going to stop it nothing.

>> Yeah, caught up with Jason Wright,

former Redskins president. It was at the

time that he was joining Ariel to lead

the air women's sports

venture. I asked him what the

opportunity was in women's sports and it

was

or laying the next round of

infrastructure. But Jason was still I

think getting his sea legs under him in

the space. As someone who's been doing

this a while, like what does what what

does the women's infrastructure women's

sports infrastructure look like?

>> Yeah. Well, so but let me back up for a

second. When we started at Monarch, like

which was you know, a handful of years

into Angel City. The women's sports

market was measured I think for the

first year when we started Monarch. So,

Deloitte has kind of become the gold

standard in measuring the market. It was

half a billion dollars, call it, when we

started a little over like 3 and 1/2

years ago. Men's sports market as a

comparison is estimated to be about a

half a trillion, right? So, you have

a fraction of a percent. Now, in the

last 3 years, Deloitte came out with

their numbers and it's probably more

like 3 billion. And but I think the

thing people miss is that sports is not

a monolithic asset class. Sports in

general, right? Like there are more

emerging sports, there are mature

sports, and then with the same thing for

women's sports. So, like when you talk

about infrastructure, that $3 billion

and it doesn't include tennis because

that's been equal for a long time due to

Billie Jean King and a bunch of things

that happened 50 years ago. But, that $3

billion disproportionately aggregates to

a couple sports in a couple countries

that are hard to access and where you

have to be disciplined, patient, and

show up with a real value proposition.

Um and that's where we focus, right? And

that's why we have the teams and the

rights we have. And it's like what we

don't do is as important as what we do

do cuz there's huge opportunity cost to

doing the wrong sport or even doing the

one team versus another in a particular

league. And so, if you go to

infrastructure, there's a ton of

infrastructure that

we need to build. I think it's a

different question like what's the

status versus what's investable and

what's your returns profile. But, um

that's changed it's changed pretty

dramatically. Like when we started

having a world-class practice facility

wasn't table stakes. It now is, right?

Having a fan environment and a stadium

environment in the right location where

you can deliver a consistent joyful

experience community experience for

butts and seats is important. So, like

you might not want to be in one of the

major markets if you don't think you can

have a player environment that attracts

the best players and builds a fan

community. And I'd say more dollars are

going into infrastructure, but it's

being funded all sorts of ways. Public

dollars, um private dollars, and the

returns profile is very, very different

depending upon how you do it.

>> How is women's sports trending, I guess,

in the direction of making a durable,

investable asset class? You know, every

day, well, not every day, but it sure

seems like the past year, there's some

new story about how some men's sports

team is getting sold, uh an NFL team, at

some exorbitant valuation, and nobody

really says anything about it, um and

it's just widely accepted as okay.

>> [clears throat]

>> Well, I mean,

>> [laughter]

>> so a couple things. Um I think um

I think uh

men's sports, if you look at the top

four leagues in you in the US, and you

could probably add you could add in the

fifth league, the MLS now, probably as

well. But if you look at the top four

leagues over the last 30 or 40 years,

they are they they they've been largely

uncorrelated to all other parts of the

asset class, and they've sort of just

gone up into the right. And so, they

retain value in up markets and down

markets. Now, you

have a scarce asset, and so that can

drive irrational behavior, or I

shouldn't say irrational. That can just

drive behavior around supply and demand.

Like, if there's one house on this

particular part of the beach in the

Hamptons,

it's a one of one, people will pay

things that might be different. But I'd

say, the way we look at things is um

from the fundamentals. And we're very

disciplined about the fundamentals,

which is like, can you build a P&L to

break even or better with the revenue

streams you control at the team level?

And then, we've exclusively invested in

places where media revenue is up into

the right. And so, there's this

asymmetric risk profile in what we do,

where the downside is protected by

franchise value, and the upside should

look like where the NBA and NFL have

gone over the last 20 or 30 years,

right? You have like Joe Lacob who

bought into the Warriors

15 years ago at $500 million valuation

and then, you know, I mean, it's if the

Warriors were to go sell a position,

which they haven't in a long while, it'd

probably be somewhere between 10 and 15

billion dollars, right? And so, but that

came from all sorts of things, media

revenue going up, you know, excellent

leadership at the league level. And I

mean, even if you go way back from

there, when when the Celtics were

winning championships in like the late

'70s, arenas were half empty.

Um,

racism was a really big problem in the

sport. Um, and they had a pioneering

team in terms of like race and

diversity.

Uh, anyway, and it the NBA really

started to take off with the Magic-Bird

rivalry and then really when Jordan came

in and they moved from tape delay. So,

media revenue has a big impact and I'd

say a lot of people end up investing in

more participation sports where the

revenue comes from

ticketing or youth or and those are

those are harder to predict. And so,

those are very different potential

returns profiles. They're not good or

bad, they're just more a little bit more

venture-like versus what we do where

like, you know, the latest NWSL team was

sold for $205 million

in Columbus.

When we came into Angel City, we paid

two, but the league was near bankrupt.

But, like the first transaction we did

um at Monarch was in Boston like Legacy

and, you know, it's publicly reported

they bought their franchise 2 and 1/2

years ago for $53 million. So, just that

piece of paper is traded, you know, up

as you can see over that period of time.

>> WNBA valuations up about 59% in 1 year.

Average valuation about $427

million. Like, when what is the first

billion-dollar women's sports team? And

what has to happen to get there?

>> Well, we wanted it to be Angel City, but

we're delighted when other teams beat us

sort of. No, we are.

>> [laughter]

>> I'm betting on you I'm betting on you

I'm betting on you. If you if you were

if if your name was on Polymarket

somewhere, I'd I'd definitely bet on you

cuz you definitely want to do it.

>> Oh, thank you. Thank you.

Um so, Angel City became the most

valuable sports team in the world when

Bob Iger and Willow Bay came in and

bought a controlling stake um

about 2 years ago. But in that period of

time, we've had sort of like it just an

extraordinary run in the WNBA in terms

of leadership, ownership, fan base,

sponsorship. So, the Valkyries, which is

run by Jess Smith, who was our head of

revenue at Angel City and is like

a dear friend, you know, family member.

Um

that's the the first team to be

reported, you know, like publicly has

been, you know, I think CNBC said

they're worth a billion dollars. And

we're their public their revenue is out

there publicly, but I think it they have

it at like 70 80 million dollars. So,

they're still trading for in theory a

lower multiple than the Lakers or

Warriors. And with the WNBA,

like the incredible strides, but they

still only have like a fraction of a

media contract of where it could be over

time and things are being layered on.

So, still early days, I think, in terms

of like P&Ls being built in the WNBA. Um

but I think you'll see it across soccer

and basketball in the US and very

specific parts of Europe. And I think

you're just going to continue to see it.

And the key is getting in in the right

way with the right group and the right

like execution and community strategy.

>> What what was that day like when uh

you got that Bob Iger and Willow Bay

news? You know, we cover it here you

know, I'll find. And to be clear, if I

was talking to them both in right now, I

would be asking them what it's like to

work with a powerhouse like you. So,

this is not like a one-sided thing. But

like what was it like for you to get

that get that investment?

>> It was I I honestly think so Willow has

been a friend of mine for a long while.

She actually before there was any

connection to Angel City, she she she

was an investor in Monarch. So, we've

been friends and collaborators for a

long time, but I There were a lot of

people in our process, and it was a full

board decision around who to work with.

I only I think I I mean I I think I I

fell to the ground in tears the day it

closed to know that we had

partners who lived in our city, shared

our values, and were excellent, you

know, across all the things that you

look for in sports and media, etc.

And I don't think I think I

underestimated how powerful it would

feel to me in the world. Um and I'm just

really grateful that, you know, we get

to build this this chapter with them.

So, yeah, it felt really good, but I

don't tend to feel things while I'm in

them. I have to force it. They

self-disclose down and [laughter] then I

occasionally cry.

>> We we we share that. We share that

>> [laughter]

>> that trait. We're just always on to the

next thing. It's so hard. You're always

trying to build the next big thing.

>> I mean, if you saw my desk, the amount

of coffee and LaCroix's I have,

um yeah. So, I I've done a lot of work

to slow down, but it felt pretty

wonderful when I allowed myself to feel

it.

>> I knew I was going to like talking to

you. Um what is it like, you know, it's

not so often you get to talk to someone

that is building a new sporting

franchise? And you mentioned Cleveland

before. Take us through the logistics of

what it is like to launch a new team.

>> Yeah, I mean, we're really fortunate

because um

we now have the we have the experience

in different roles, founder then funder,

Angel City, Boston Legacy, where I you

know, I'm really proud of the work we've

done with the founding group there,

Jennifer Epstein and

um

Amy Danoff and Stephanie Covington, and

then all the way to Cleveland, which is

the latest one. Each one's a little

different, but I think like the way I

think about it is like 70 to 80% of what

we're what we're doing or the control

owner is doing with any team is best

practice.

And it's about like understanding what

in like the NBA is such a delight,

right? Because they've had Timbo, and

which is their internal consulting

organization, and just sort of this long

history of like, how do we all work

together collectively to share best

practices and build excellent teams? And

you do get the benefit of that on the

women's side in a way that's very

compelling. But so 70-80% of it is sort

of best practices. It's that 20 to 30%

that's different for each control owner,

each syndicate, each president, each

city, where like, I think the real magic

happens. And it's everything from

how do you get your first fan, and who

are they? How do you build, you know,

like, the supporters group in a way

where you don't, you know, if it's

soccer, but I love the idea of

supporters group kind of community

culture coming into basketball and other

sports, too. I think sports can learn

from each other. How do you build that

in a way where it's not just like, I

need 2,000 people, and we're going to

give them free gifts, and they're going

to It's like, how do you go on a journey

that might feel a little slow in the

beginning, but really authentic, you

know, where like, I forget who it was, I

think it was Chris Dixon,

um, from Andreessen who talked about the

magic of the first thousand, um, and I

think you can't kind of force that. So,

going on an organic journey to how to

understand like, how do you build that

community organically? Do you get them

involved in the brand? Do you ask their

advice? What do you do when you upset

them, which you're inevitably going to

do, cuz you can't make decisions as a

collective? I love it. Like, working

with Cleveland right now,

I think I'm I mean, it's just so much

fun, cuz I think I'm finally like fully

comfortable and like,

oh, I know this is going to be

extraordinary, and like, let's have fun,

and they're so great, and it's sort of

like,

God, I'll just write like brand

documents or observations from a trip on

an airplane and send it to,

you know, Grant and Nick, um, and the

gang over there, and I'm like, take it

or leave it, and I'm here to to to talk

through it. I mean, we do everything

from that to like okay, how do we

support this team uniquely? Where did

Where do they want us to help? Do they

want brand sponsor introductions? Do

they want to do valuation analysis in

different way? Do they want to look at

activations that could be unique to

their market? And then how do we learn

like boots on the ground and really show

up and listen? Like that that it always

a different kind of amalgamation.

>> When you were starting Monarch, were

there people that said, "What the hell

are you doing? This isn't going to

work." And if that was the case, how did

you deal with no?

>> Okay, so everyone other than a few

people said that to us when we were

starting Angel City. With Monarch,

I got more of the like

there's nothing there's nothing to role

model yourself off of, but you do have

like a track record now of building

something the world can look at.

But I sort of view it this way is like

I'm in the business of no's.

And in the beginning, most people who

gave us capital and like we thought

we're going to raise a hundred million

and we ended up raising

and putting a hard cap on it 250. And we

want to raise just the right amount to

be able to invest in premium teams and

wait, right? And show and do things that

are going to drive

extreme upside and cultural impact. And

if that means we don't do something for

a year because we can't get to the right

terms or the right pricing, we won't do

it. We really look at opportunity cost.

But I think

Honestly, the the interesting thing with

Monarch is I don't No one likes

rejection. It's not like oh, I'm in the

no business and so fun. Like I really

don't like rejection. I'm really

competitive. I'm also really

collaborative and will help anyone who

wants to learn about women's sports if

we share values.

I think it's more like somehow I

magically put on earmuffs.

>> [laughter]

>> People are like like we raised Monarch

not just in a like in a market where

people are like oh, women's sports, how

exotic, you know? Um but also in a

market where no venture funds or private

equity funds were like like really be a

growth equity funds were really being

raised. And I think I just keep my eye

on the prize and I let our constraints

be our opportunity. And honestly, we

ended up bringing in some extraordinary

people and families, you know, names

that you would know like Pivotal and

Melinda Gates, you know,

others you might know not know, but

they're like the great men of tech and

private equity who also care about like,

you know, care about returns and and

feel good about the impact they're

making. But we ended up, you know,

bringing people in who wrote us 20, 30,

40 million dollar kinds of checks and it

often were people that we just helped

before we like look at women's sports

before we knew we were even going to

raise a fund. So, I think there is like

we're relationship people, we're not

transactional, we build for the long

term, and I just kind of pushed out the

noise and really believed in what we

were doing.

>> I I dig that and I certainly can relate.

The last one for you, your biggest

prediction for women's sports

10 years out.

>> Ooh.

Um

I think that um

I mean, I'll give you like a boring one

and then hopefully an interesting one

will come to me in the process.

>> Fire [laughter] away.

>> I think the market is going to grow the

way tech grew in the early days. Like it

won't get as big as tech, but like when

I started in tech at, you know, better

as a Morgan Stanley and then Battery

Ventures um late '90s, early 2000s, it

was a backwater industry. And sometimes

I say I feel like Biff in Back to the

Future II cuz it's like if you're

focused and you're disciplined and you

do this in in a very, you know,

organized way, you know what's going to

happen. And so, yeah, we're $3 billion

market today, it could be

you know, we wouldn't put this in a

deck. Uh it could be 20, 30, 40, 50

billion dollars, but it's going to

disproportionately aggregate to the

places where people want to show up, put

butts in seats, do it repeatedly, watch

it, engage with the storytelling, and

where you deliver against the

world-class player and fan experience.

So, I think market size growing faster

than we expect, but on and and and like

the Amazons and Googles and Anthropic

and OpenAIs,

they will take a majority of that share

and a lot of the stuff on the margin is

not, you know, will be fun but won't

drive that market size. So, I don't

know, I guess that's my boring

prediction. What's the fun one?

Um, I think we'll have more soccer and

basketball team I think there will be

more, you know, like there's this model

in Europe of like women's teams kind of

taking capital for the first time in

minority transactions. I think you're

going to see a lot of European men's

teams

um

sell control in their women's team

because they realize that dedicated

board, dedicated focus, team like the

best talent wants to work with people

who are 100% focused on what they do,

the best sponsors. So, I think you're

going to see a wave of like both leagues

and teams figure out a unique model as

to how they work with the men's team and

the brand for these 100-plus year-old

kind of teams, but like actually become

more and more independent. Um, and I

think that women's sports will in my

lifetime, you know, maybe it'll be

bigger than men's sports cuz we drive

80% of consumer spend and you're seeing

completely new categories of sponsors

coming in. So, that's my crazy

provocative comment. I might just have

to live to be 200.

>> No, hell yeah, let's go. Look, I knew

this was going to be a masterclass on

women's sports investing. I was not

disappointed. Kara, good to uh meet you.

Keep posting everything you're working

on, your next big investment. You're

kicking major ass.

>> Thank you for having me. This was so

much fun.

>> Of course. I'll talk to you soon. That's

it for the latest episode of Power

Players.